Forum Post: NO WAR
Posted 1 year ago on Oct. 8, 2011, 1:19 p.m. EST by MattLHolck
(14072)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
destruction cannot be profitable
it only destroys goods, properties and people
war is used to take from others
it produces nothing on it's own
building bombs 'til bunkers boil
getting paid for shell filled toil
if I am to work tomorrow
lobe the load on foreign soil
yep US only pays 41% of the total world military budget
World Military budget in Billions (percent total) by Nation
- 1,630 World Total
- 711 United States 41%
- 143 China 8.2%
- 71.9 Russia 4.1%
- 62.7 United Kingdom 3.6 %
- 62.5 France 3.6%
- 54.5 Japan 3.3&
- 48.2 Saudi Arabia 2.8%
- 46.8 India 2.5%
- 46.7 Germany 2.8%
- 37.0 Italy 2.3%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures
Global Arms Sales By Supplier Nations
39% United States
18% Russia
8% France
7% United Kingdom
5% Germany
3% China
3% Italy
11% Other European
5% Others
TOP 10 Arms Produces
Notes: An S denotes a subsidiary company. A dash (–) indicates that the company did not rank among the SIPRI Top 100 for 2009
- Lockheed Martin USA 35,730 33,430 78
- BAE Systems UK 32,880 32,540 95
- Boeing USA 31,360 32,300 49
- Northrop Grumman USA 28,150 27,000 81
- General Dynamics USA 23,940 23,380 74
- Raytheon USA 22,980 23,080 91
- BAE Systems Inc. (BAE Systems, UK) USA 17,900 19,280 100
- EADS Trans-European 16,360 15,930 27
- Finmeccanica Italy 14,410 13,280 58
- L-3 Communications USA 13,070 13,010 83
- United Technologies USA
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/mar/02/arms-sales-top-100-producers
Widow Winchester's riffle wealth warped her house.
Stairs to ceilings. Windows to walls.
Always slept in a new room,
hiding from shot souls
I understand that defense contractor stocks are down an average of 16% since the "official" war in Iraq ended.
"Cue the Koran burnings! Get that Afganistan thing cranked up again! Dispense propaganda about Iran's nuclear program. Get everyone afraid. Hurry! We're loosing money here!"
Naw! That's just a coincidence. Don't pay any attention to me.
Burning the Koran on US soil by a nutjob preacher did not get the reaction they wanted... so they told our soldiers to do it on their soil... and get a few more copies this time...
Yeah... makes perfect sense... piss off ALL your neighbors in a warzone...
Oh... and just BTW... does this mean I am allowed to burn copies of the Bible and Talmud if I want to 'dispose' of them?
We bombed 11 children last week
http://www.stopwar.org.uk/index.php/usa-war-on-terror/2387-bombs-from-boston-to-baghdad-what-is-the-value-of-a-human-life
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/04/07/afghanistan-fighting/2060339/
confirm
VQkag2 said 0 minutes ago at Oct. 28, 2012, 9:51 a.m. EST (delete)
Do you disagree with my statement?
I support it
I reposted it
Free Bradley Manning!
Indeed, you reposted. You just didn't respond so your support was not obvious to me.. Which is why I asked.
Thanks.
Manning trial is scheduled for Feb (after the election of course) I have a bad feeling about it but at least he won't get the death penalty.
I think pressure/protests can help. Even though he knowingly broke military law it is possible he can get a time served short sentence. Especially since there has been very little resulting damage as far as I know, and I don't think any covert operatives were compromised.
Have you heard of any damage?
he should be pardoned and made answerable to the general public
Pardon Manning!
That would be nice, I have held that very sign! I think it is unlikely.
Possible he gets a short sentence with time served.
But gotta still fight for the pardon.
U.S. Drones Kill 16 in Pakistan; Victims Left Unidentified
building bombs 'til bunkers boil
getting paid for shell filled toil
if I am to work tomorrow
lobe the load on foreign soil
yep US only pays 41% of the total world military budget
World Military budget in Billions (percent total) by Nation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures
Global Arms Sales By Supplier Nations
39% United States
18% Russia
8% France
7% United Kingdom
5% Germany
3% China
3% Italy
11% Other European
5% Others
http://www.globalissues.org/article/74/the-arms-trade-is-big-business#GlobalArmsSalesBySupplierNations
TOP 10 Arms Produces
Notes: An S denotes a subsidiary company. A dash (–) indicates that the company did not rank among the SIPRI Top 100 for 2009
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/mar/02/arms-sales-top-100-producers
Widow Winchester's riffle wealth warped her house.
Stairs to ceilings. Windows to walls.
Always slept in a new room,
hiding from shot souls
I Believe the US "Goes to War for Democracy"
when war has nothing to do with democracy
scribble detrimental to trust necessary in democracy for the minority protection scratch
The USA has supported / propped up / put into power / or simply maintained friendly relationships with more dictators than any nation in history.
See... getting one person (who is able to bully his people into subservience) to do what we want is so much easier than dealing with a diverse and democratically elected government who are answerable to their people.
communication and trade make that possible
and I think Briton is a competitor for world empires
Britain at least had the stones to plan their flag in the ground, claim the territory and stick around for the long haul.
We seem to prefer to use dictators, puppet govts and/or proxy armies to maintain "control" but completely fuck everything up for the people actually living in those places.
Practically no one we have 'liberated' thinks we did them any favors, US intervention has ALWAYS made things worse, not better... more dead, more atrocities and more instability...
HR 1540 - Voting Record senate
HR 1540 National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012 - Voting Record
H J Res 114 Use of Military Force Against Iraq - Voting Record House
H J Res 114 Use of Military Force Against Iraq - Voting Record Senate
He should have burned the King James Bible too.... like the Quran it also says you should stone women to death for not being virgins before marriage.
People like to think CRAZY so easily on other religions and totally forget where they all originated.
Religions are so damn problematic.
yes you are absolutely allowed . its a freaking BOOK omg how can anyone take this serously. while they are stoning women for sex and one type is blowing up another type for whatever reason.. they want to get mad over a freaking book. its laughable
You don't respect yourself or your Talmud (the real freaking book). Why would you respect others' Holy books!
and where is this 'book' because all the rest are ink and paper copies. nothing more. just ink and paper. you can go buy a thousand copies and burn them ,, they just print more.
Well... lets you and me contact our local news agencies about having a little book barbecue (one copy of each... the Bible and the Talmud and/or Torah)... see what kind of reaction WE will get....
Some members of my family might shoot me before anyone else gets the chance...
But seriously... are our troops really THAT daft that they would do that to a book considered holy by pretty much every Afghan? And then leave the evidence lying around for some poor laborer to find it?
What if our troops didn't actually do the Koran burning? Could a black ops contractor have done it? Based on what is known about those kind of things, I don't think any scenario should be off the table. Go back to Air America in Vietnam.
it was because someone had written extremist propaganda in the pages. so a security issue. nothing to do with religion. and im sure.. if we said we were burning these books to show the daft middle easteners that its just a book ,, not anything worth throwing a fit about , your relatives would not mind at all. theres like a million in print. we should drop about a million korans over the middle east so they dont feel deprived.
NPR doesn't seem to think the US aggressive war policy is a major issue
NPR is a particularly slimy tool of the Criminal Ruling Elites.
"paid for by viewers like you"
LOL-touche'
it's the military's job to be plan possible future wars whether or not they occur
war seems more likely to happen if ones finger is on the trigger
sort of flies in the face of
"if one wants peace one must prepare for war
Oscar Arias is a good man and worthy of consideration as per the subject matter of this thread. Thus :
caveat - 'bellum se ipsum alet' ...
veritas vos liberabit ..
pax, amor et lux .
we all will have more wealth if we disarm
Like I said, Matt, those are just coincidences that I wrote of in my earlier post.
true
A Green New Deal for America
includes a 50% reduction in military spending
thats sooo true
Looks like they're trigger finger getting itchy again - pushing another false flag terrorist scam to get us into war with Iran. Story sure sounds dubious. Iatola Komani said today that it was planned by the US to divert attention away from OWS. Wish I could say for sure he's wrong. I don't even know who or why we're fighting in Afghanistan when 96% of the Afghanistan people have never even heard of 9-11.
This is an excerpt of a report given to the Senate Armed Services Committee by the Director of National Intelligence, James Clapper, on 16 Feb 2012
"We assess Iran is keeping open the option to develop nuclear weapons, in part by developing various nuclear capabilities that better position it to produce such weapons, should it choose to do so. We do not know, however, if Iran will eventually decide to build nuclear weapons."
So we are imposing crippling sanctions on Iran, sending battlegroups within striking distance because they MAY at some point choose to develop a nuclear weapons capability.... right... makes perfect sense...
Oh... just BTW, here is a map showing locations of US military installations around Iran (about 2-3 months old perhaps)
http://www.juancole.com/images/2011/12/usbasesme.jpg
Yep... we should be scared of them... because... more than anything else... they have the stones to disobey us under that kind of pressure...
As for Syria, one thing always escaped me... as it did during the Libyan 'revolt'....
How are these supposedly peaceful and educated civilians so well trained in the use of guns and explosives? What are the names of these so called NGO's providing casualty reports? Where are they headquartered? Where is the opposition getting its weapons from? Isn't it illegal to incite and support revolution in a sovereign nation under UN mandates?
You haven’t seen anything yet; pay close attention to see why Obama was elected; to invade Iran and North Korea. How? Remain to be seen.
my friend father on the day the Twin Towers fell predicted
the US would go to war with Iraq
The Twin Towers were nothing more than a fortunate coincidence, the plan to get rid of Saddam was already in place.
In case you forgot, the original reason to go to war in Iraq was to dispossess a lunatic dictator of his non existent WMD's
What the public chose to ignore is how this lunatic dictator failed to actually use any of his WMD's during the war and that none of them were ever found... but when this was starting to penetrate their consciousness... we switched to a new line....
"The Axis of Evil" Terrorism and all that... except that most of the 9/11 terrorists were funded and traveled through/via... ding ding ding... SAUDI ARABIA!
So... finally we settled on "The Liberation of the Iraqi People"
Except that there is more violence and death in the country now than ever under Saddams rule, there are more terrorists in Iraq now then ever under Saddams rule.... there are more private oil companies now than ever under Saddams rule... oops... forget about the last one... not relevant...
I think the military has plans to invade just about every country
it's their job to be ready for action
the oil companies certainly have benefited from the invasion of Iraq
Record profits for successive years and yet gas prices have will never come back down... war is great for them despite what everyone might think... drives up price of crude... great way to get more dough out of a non renewable resource...
Oooh! We MIGHT be attacking Iran... and it MIGHT disrupt oil supplies (actually... it wont... 2 freaking carrier groups and about 2 dozen military installations in the area to stop that happening...)... time to jack up the prices on speculation and fuck the common man over again...
Oh wait... when we talk about Iran being a threat... Is there anyone else in the region has nukes right now and has a good chunk of them pointed at European Capitals? please ignore the elephant in the room
2 points by MattLHolck (5563) 1 day ago
I understand oil is up due to speculation
that Iran might close the strait of Hormuz
in retaliation for western economic sanctions
.
Iran haven't
oil has rising due to speculation
[-] 1 points by pewestlake (155) from Brooklyn, NY 21 hours ago
Iran will never, repeat never, close the Straight of Hormuz, for three reasons: 1) they need the money; 2) China and Russia need the oil; 3) they don't have the firepower to sustain a blockade of the entire waterway. The speculators aren't very smart about the geopolitics of the world. They just know a sucker in the making. And that's where the gyrations come from.
Russia and China
Iran, maybe, North Korea... naw... they got nukes see... even if they dont explode right... they can fuck shit up... Now imagine if a dirty bomb hits a US base in Japan... I think somewhere in the region of 10% of the country is US military bases.... or a base South Korea (you know.. our pals...)...
Japanese and Korean people will tell US military to GTFO... cant have that... Who would 'protect' them against China?
Hope u r wrong - Afraid u r right.
we should not allow that
Agreed!!!
QUOTE
When 1.5 million children went back in school in Afghanistan in the spring of 2002, a tough lesson was waiting for them. While the country welcomed some semblance of peace for the first time in years, war remained very much a part of its classrooms. Afghanistan's teachers tried to erase war images from the textbooks, images that got there in the first place due in large part to Cold War policies in the United States.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/afghanistan/schools.html
The US provided weapons to the Taliban with weapons to fight a USSR invasion
I worry a bit about a video violence generation
although war gaming has been a art of my life
Who is they?
Whatever you believe the necessary course to be Depends on who you trust to identify the enemy Who beats the drums for war? Even before peace is lost Who are the profits for? And who are they who bear the cost When a country takes the low road to war
Who gives the orders, orders to torture? Who gets to no bid contract the future? Who lies, then bombs, then calls it an error? Who makes a fortune from fighting terror? Who is the enemy trying to crush us? Who is the enemy of truth and justice? Who is the enemy of peace and freedom? Where are the courts, now when we need them? Why is impeachment not on the table? We better stop them while we are able Roll out the drums of war If you know what your freedom,s for Roll out the drums of war
Whatever you believe the necessary course to be Depends on who you trust to identify the enemy Who took this country to war? Long before the peace was lost Who are the profits for? And who are they who bear the cost And who lay down their lives? And who will live with the sacrifice Of our best and brightest hopes, The flower of our youth, Of freedom, and the truth?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-QS6geyZVc
Nice. Have liked Jackson Brown for a long time.
Agreed!! It's a shame that his words ring just as true today as when they were written. It means we haven't changed as a nation.Sad.
hard to stop a march once it is started
Them.
Materials for lithium ions batteries and the best opiates are found Afgan. There's two reasons.
This article is about disposable primary batteries. For rechargeable batteries, see Lithium-ion battery. CR2032 lithium button cell battery Lithium 9 volt, AA, & AAA sizes
Lithium batteries are disposable (primary) batteries that have lithium metal or lithium compounds as an anode. Depending on the design and chemical compounds used, lithium cells can produce voltages from 1.5 V to about 3.7 V, over twice the voltage of an ordinary zinc–carbon battery or alkaline battery.[
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_battery
The troops are not going to be put on the border to secure the country thants for sure.
Afghanistan to back Pakistan if wars with U.S.: Karzai http://news.yahoo.com/afghanistan-back-pakistan-wars-u-karzai-023316217.html
ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Afghanistan would support Pakistan in case of military conflict between Pakistan and the United States, Afghan President Hamid Karzai said in an interview to a private Pakistani TV channel broadcast on Saturday. The remarks were in sharp contrast to recent tension between the two neighbors over cross-border raids, and Afghan accusations that Pakistan was involved in killing the chief Afghan peace envoy, former Afghan president Burhanuddin Rabbani, by a suicide bomber on September 20. "God forbid, If ever there is a war between Pakistan and America, Afghanistan will side with Pakistan," he said in the interview to Geo television.
that is why we see explosions in Afghanistan, also called terrorist attacks.
Pakistan has nukes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_proliferation#Pakistan
both Chinese and Canadian nuclear power planta
China has already developed nuclear weapons. Canada just working on it. look at the map
Saudi Arabia is also developing a nuclear program
we'll occupy dem world sooner or later!
http://visual-poetry.tumblr.com/post/7649715658/onminimalism-stop-wars
with an orchestra
nice dude, you got me =) now we clearly hear orchestra rehearsal. and drum roll with media instruments in accompaniment http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3839002.html
Yeah, we must fear terrorism! Isn't it more likely to die from getting struck by lightning? I don't believe we're there for oil - oil is a convenient excuse for the masses to blame wars on. I believe it's plain and simple conquest, because wars help the bankers since they put both sides of the war in debt.
Actually, its global finance, Wall Street and the City of London that finance the Muslim terrorists. Goes back to the time when the British East India company used to finance Muslims in India to fight the Hindu kings, as a divide and conquer strategy.
Today, they finance Muslim terrorism to divide and conquer Asia from the west.
I agree. It's time for a change!
I invite you to review this plan - and imagine the possibilities.
http://www.osixs.org/Rev2_menu_commonsense.aspx
When the representative body have lost the confidence of their constituents, when they have notoriously made sale of their most valuable rights, when they have assumed to themselves powers which the people never put into their hands, then indeed their continuing in office becomes dangerous to the State, and calls for an exercise of the power of dissolution. -- Thomas Jefferson –
damn, I thought we were going to Iran to get the Rothschilds a new bank there, like we did in Iraq and Libya, then on to, Syria, Cuba and North Korea for the same reason.
Iran doesn't have a Rothschild Bank ?
With 9-11 we find every reason on the land to demonstrate in our state capitols and demand an article 5 convention.- http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html
Iran does want to kill us. the Stuxnet virus delayed there nuclear progress but they still want to kill us. Also, nobody wants war but as long as humans hate each other they will still fight each other.
i've heard fighting is a result of severe wealth differences between people
I've heard war is due to primal survival instincts and wanting your countries survival not threatened by others
I heard plunder was associated with war
there is no threat. warring with the middle east is like you fighting with the kindergarten class. how can you ever imagine such a backward uneducated populace of being a threat?
[-] 1 points by shadz66 (6110) 20 hours ago
http://www.warresisters.org/sites/default/files/FY2012piechart-color.pdf .
http://occupywallst.org/forum/twelve-things-you-should-know-about-vice-president/#comment-804437
"One hundred victories in one hundred battles is not perfect victory. Perfect victory is having defeated your opponent without having done battle at all." -Sun Tsu
the saddest part of 911 was
the deliberate silencing of complaints about international exploitation by companies and US military enforcement across the globe
the murders of 3000 innocent human by terrorists beings mean nothing to you?
did I say saddest?
I meant sadistic
e sadistic part of 911 was
the deliberate silencing of complaints about international exploitation by companies and US military enforcement across the globe
yes, you said saddest.
This post should be top posted every single freakin day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
humans as a whole are mostly peaceful
civilization could not exist if humans were always fighting their neighbor
machines have got the worst of us
because destruction is easier than construction
.
when the lights went down in San Diego
the stars shone through the gray
the people came out to walk along the main drag
down to the beach
.
and the moon was shining
just a night from almost full
the people were laughing and smiling in her light
when electricity failed
.
It's sad, oh
there's been warnings
of looters around without laws
without the lights
but people were friendly, everyone that I came by
[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (2204) 3 minutes ago
How many countries has Obama bombed? How many US citizens has Obama had killed via bombs strikes without charge or trial... in countries we're not at war with making it illegal to not only kill the US citizens but illegal acts of war as well in clear violation of international laws signed by the USA. Our country likes to commit acts of war without calling them wars.
Let me share a link from the ACLU in regards to torture
"The Obama administration’s adoption of the stonewalling tactics and opaque policies of the Bush administration flies in the face of the president’s stated desire to restore the rule of law. ... when these photos of torture do see the light of day, the outrage will focus not only on the commission of torture by the Bush administration but on the Obama administration's complicity in covering them up." - ACLU
http://www.aclu.org/2009/05/13/obama-administration-reverses-promise-to-release-torture-photos
ACLU files law suit against the Obama administration for war crimes... not the first time either.
http://www.aclu.org/national-security/al-aulaqi-v-obama
"I'm not disgusted at President Obama personally. It's President Obama's policies on civil liberties and national security issues I'm disgusted by." - ACLU Executive Director Anthony Romero
http://www.politico.com/blogs/joshgerstein/0610/ACLU_chief_disgusted_with_Obama.html
Status of Forces Agreement is all I have to say about Iraq. I voted for the 16 month plan but that was just a lie to help get elected.
This is factual and easily provable. I see Peace as noblest of ALL possible goals which can be sought by humankind.
This point can never be made too much Matt. Good one. I'm there.
The Puzzler
thanks
Warfare is the MOST PROFITABLE activity on earth for a very few at the expense of the many. Most of them begin with a false flag operation or other misinformation (deception).
war is thievery
It is also the most environmentally destructive.
War is the last resort when all else fails for most rational countries. For others it is used to gain power and thereby is a tool.
None makes any sense. I can understand defending yourself against hoodlums. It's still not glorious, fun, or great. It just doesn't bode well for human beings that we do this to each other.
I agree NO WAR, if it is the absolute last resort to defend yourself, your life or the life of others, do it, war, killm in defense. But don't be proud. It sucks.
Yes, it stains our humanity, this crap, called WAR.
perhaps humans being globally aware will change the condition
It is as if we are devolving instead of evolving.
machines amplifies our actions
because destruction is easier than construction
the machine amplification has outpaced our ability to create
Better:
destruction cannot be profitable it only destroys PEOPLE, goods, and properties
war is used to take from others it produces nothing on ITS own
Now, I agree.
fair enough
I think its viewed like this.
A lot of war everywhere could liquidate a lot of global debt. From the bottom up, if you catch my drift. I'm really beginning to think its all a smoke-screen to divert attention from the biggest wealth transfer in the history of mankind. And I think they are frightened OWS could expose it eventually.
resources are being taken by force
imagine...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKfuS6gfxPY
nice ad
did it get any airtime ?
3 minutes, so no, not on tv.
it makes the China look like an imagined threat
the intent is really just commentary on occupation.
and i don't much think china is very threatening. no country will ever invade us, we have the most guns per capita. that's what they'd get to meet if they even managed to get to the land.
Navy trumps
I worry about the rockets being thrown miles past the shore
love. no war http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WBHic2Ea_8
yep nothing changed when Bin Ladin was assassinated
I saw an article here talking all the wonderful things Ratheon is doing.
Unreal.
that's a company in san diego
End the drone strikes, Declare the phony 'War on terror' over because it is used to scare us into support, & to justify invasions, bombings, & rights violations
all people of the world should have have constitutional rights
In fact they do. It just hasn't been established in a document. Rights aren't given, we are born with them. ALL of us.
DSamms (96) 2 hours ago
http://occupywallst.org/forum/should-we-be-the-world-police-who-should-be-the-wo/#comment-927879
Declare the 'War on Terror' over!
so now the government wants permission to hunt it's own citizens
How Obama Decides to Kill American Citizens in the War on Terror
It's not only the government. It's a complete corrupted structure that has power. There would be no peace until their boss is stopped. Here he is http://interoccupy.net/sarovica/?doing_wp_cron=1360535231.6098799705505371093750
They removed my NO WAR avatar from their forum
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29525809/Bringing_the_Mills_around_again
If you wish to eliminate war, be prepared to perform 6.5 billion lobotomies.
humans are aggressive
] 1 points by DrSteinWithaker (-34) 3 minutes ago
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread873982/pg4
saw this propaganda in ad on the glee forum
http://www.dishonorabledisclosure.com/?cdtrack_creative=f592ea35-88d9-4a90-8f32-ad6b16530727&cdtrack_source=6766ecf9-5d7e-4988-ba24-e120e6fe0873&gclid=CMWynfbK6rECFYIaQgodJTMAgw
they like to use the word ENEMY
That's some kind of pro level astroturfing.
Propaganda+++
still listening to it
there's a whole lot of nothing
they want to kill quietly
they mention malice of fore thought
we it is pretty obvious the timing of Bin Laden assassination news
was to cover the bombing of Ghadaffi's grand children
.
these guys need tyo be shut down
No mention of the "mission accomplished" speech of Bush.
Notice that contributions are NOT tax deductible.
They also sidestep admitting that these people were actually in the armed forces.
It would be interesting to know who is behind it.
It is a slick looking site.
"War is a Racket" By Major General Smedley Butler
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html
Blast Kills Core Syrian Security Officials
Obama Care: I have a dream not I have a drone
July 1, 8 killed in Pakistan and-beyond ... talk about spiking the football
US drone strikes target rescuers in Pakistan – and the west stays silent
Posted 5 minutes ago on Aug. 23, 2012, 4:16 p.m. EST by TrevorMnemonic (3613) This content is user submitted and not an official statement
http://occupywallst.org/forum/us-drone-strikes-target-rescuers-in-pakistan-and-t/#comment-813605
[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (9451) 52 minutes ago
Obama Care: I have a dream not I have a drone
July 1, 8 killed in Pakistan and-beyond ... talk about spiking the football ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink my mother lets me play outside when its sunny
now I'm stuck with it
OK I admit that I want a public health care system and not private insurance
US intervention in Syria on countdown http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRRW6KoHLDY&feature=player_embedded#! http://www.rt.com/news/syria-rebels-us-arms-028/
when women got there vote, it was heralded in the language of war
that War for democracy in against Germany made no sense when we do not have a democracy of on own
when in reality, War makes no sense
are you referring to WWII? are you saying that defeating hitler and his fascist regime was not worthwhile?
they reported Obama receiving 100% in the San Diego primaries when I clearly wrote in NO WAR
http://news.yahoo.com/pakistan-condemns-u-drone-strikes-154652091.html
Rollerball afterparty
Another NO WAR thread
FireFox crash (anybody aware someone harasses me on my computer) anyway it held the password to the ows forum so I can't get back on that
https://twitter.com/#!/Matt_Holck
As long as there are warlords, Islamic radicals, genocidal warlords and people not willing to recognize these problems there will unfortunately always be war. It is a horrible fact.
they killed fritz (WIZARDS)
searched "NO WAR"
top of the page listed No War for Israel
ofcourse, no war for Israel and also the united states
both parties support the MID
Occupy the Vote
Postby DSams » April 9th, 2012, 1:22 pm
.
http://www.themultitude.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=835
Fcuk "Occupy the Vote":
What a waste of OWS THAT would be!
[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (2676) 3 minutes ago
[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (2676) 5 minutes ago
http://occupywallst.org/forum/president-obama-signs-executive-order-allowing-for/#comment-728870
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Shifa_pharmaceutical_factory
the democrats use aggressive military force too
Obama celebrated bin laddin death
that occurred 2 days after US bombs kll ghadaffi's grandchildren
Anonymous - Message to the American People
yep US only pays 41% of the total world military budget
World Military budget in Billions (percent total) by Nation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures
Global Arms Sales By Supplier Nations
39% United States
18% Russia
8% France
7% United Kingdom
5% Germany
3% China
3% Italy
11% Other European
5% Others
http://www.globalissues.org/article/74/the-arms-trade-is-big-business#GlobalArmsSalesBySupplierNations
TOP 10 Arms Produces
Notes: An S denotes a subsidiary company. A dash (–) indicates that the company did not rank among the SIPRI Top 100 for 2009
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/mar/02/arms-sales-top-100-producers
[-] -3 points by Spring12 (14) 17 hours ago
No we really aren't Nazi's because we are not Facists and we didn't murder 6 million people and cause a world war. So you can just go fuck yourself bro.
[-] 2 points by jimmycrackerson (775) from Malta, ID 16 hours ago
You wanna go? Come at me bro. braw. broseph. broskini. brobama...
[-] 1 points by Mowat (131) 12 hours ago
the US killed over 20 million since ww2 in several wars it started. You would think it would have been less evil if Germany won ww2!
[-] 1 points by geo (491) 1 minute ago
Thats right we never invaded Iraq, Afghanistan, nor Panama, or forced regime change by the CIA in Iran in the 50's, or regime changes in any South American countries..... none of that ever happened. I'm sure I left some out.... oh yeah, Grenada... never invaded that country either, or the Bay of Pigs invasion. We don't provoke war, of course not.
endthewars
The Vietnam vets that were drafted (and had no choice whether to go or not) were spit at and condemned when they returned home; yet we honor the volunteer military that enables perpetual wars.
Nothing will end war unless the people themselves refuse to go to war. ~Albert Einstein
a "risk taker" is considered a hero
Iran is not propaganda, they are islamic radicals who have harbored the Taliban and Al-Queda. They could be a serious threat.
radicals are few are far between where I live
Well that doesn't make any sense because it has been radicals we have been at war with for years
I understand that humans vary a lot in culture
but I believe, we're mostly alike
Well Islamic extremists don't think that way, they believe America is run by Jews which are controlled by the devil. So they have an un dieing burning hatred for us. Why do you think 9/11 happened? You can't say we are anything like them.
I imagine the think most about their own affairs and not someone on the other side of the world.
Unless ofcourse , those countries and bombing them or short selling them
Well they don't, the ones that join terror groups their soul purpose is to kill infidels. Not all Muslims are extremists. But you cannot say that they don't hate us. Why would hey have done 9/11 if they didn't?
because the US had been bombing the Middle east
and short selling them through the World Trade Organization
we had only bomber Iraq, the ones that hit the trade center were Iranian and Afghani terrorists. We only had sanctions on Iraq so they could not build up their army again and continue production on bio weapons
I understand Saudi Arabia was the home of most of the 911 terrorist
Clinton bombed the training sight for al quada and a medicine factory in africa
The world needs more scientists.
Real ones.
the world needs to understand we live in a closed system
People dont care about war and killing. They care about getting more money for themselves.
And this is why the wars continue.
Isnt it disgusting?
the international companies gain money through war spending
and concurring
I thought the job of true soldiers is to finish wars, and not start them....
ideally
No, really...
police should stop crime
The Roof is on Fire
There is an old saying if you want peace prepare for war. I think war is inescapable when dealing with humans. I wish it was otherwise but even the founding fathers wanted war to keep the American democracy alive.
there is an old saying
stone the sinners
anyway
a country is more likely to use a warehouse of bombs if there is a warehouse of bombs
If there are no bombs, they would use their fists. If there were no fists, they would use their teeth... and so on. You can't take the war our of all the humans on the planet at the exact same time. It is impossible. The pacifists will always get beat down. Might makes right. These are not my rules but the rules of humanity & history. Why did the forefather give us the right to bear arms?
the civil war was very bloody
As irrational takes over the rational, war can only result.
Never truly justified but a predicament. There is a way out. War can be stopped. If we want it.
true
War is always a failure of negotiating. It's also a failure of the human spirit.
War is what it is to be human. It is natural for humans to war. It is in their nature. Afterall, what do you think sports are? A WAR!
Sports - To give the animal an acceptable outlet for all of the natural born energy tension built up in a mostly tame society that has little physical outlet due to technology. But sport falls short because it is largely a spectator event. Those spectators get wound up and then more often then not they have no good outlet.
This is where society needs to look for releasing pent up tension - Healthy physical outlet.
Do not reduce physical education in school.
I think sports breeds more of the us them mentality that causes war. Sex is more of an outlet than sports. However, I do agree with you even though my post sounds like I don't.
No problem. Some ( most ) sports do engender an us verses them perspective and an attitude that does travel outside of the game.
I always liked the ones where I was the competition. Where I challenged myself to do better. Downhill skiing, Biking, Gymnastics these can be team sports but they can also be individual in the challenge.
Good point.
Not only are we human, we're an animal. This is something we don't like to think about. If their are more more evolved beings in this universe, they figured out how not to kill in rage, fear, and hate. We can only hope.
Otherwise, I have no purpose on this planet. None.
We are animals that pretend we are not animals thus becoming more dangerous. The animal in denial is worse than the animal true to its nature because of the deception that is involved. Culture & Virtue can lead us to a higher plateau but unfortunately the the universe flows like the tide making these things almost imperceptible.
a lazy way to solve problems
ANd we can never say it too many times since many still believe War is Good.
The Puzzler
people want to believe that they are good
Which is exactly why they rationalize war so that with such a stain upon them they can still somehow believe their good. Problem is that war is not rational rather the opposite. SO rationalizing the already irrational is effectively impossible. This is where we may begin believing our own lies as if that makes up for our shortcomings. How well can we deceive ourselves? Usually not well enough. The truth always exists and doesn't take holidays.
The Puzzler
ya like robin hood, "we rob from the rich to give to the poor, with our little bow and arrow"
if iran and israel and the rest of the middle east blow each other up, what is it to us? we have plenty of oil here to drill. Just saying.
there's a whole continent below north america
I remember penguin publishing put put a book in the 90's
that supposedly upset Islam fundamentalist.
.
Bombs threat were called in.
Anyone can call in a bomb threat.
So there's no proof that these "radical" actually called in the threats.
.
Sometimes, I wonder in the media is exaggerating
when it reports a religion that would kill over a book.
.
or at the very least "cherry picking" what to apologize about.
I quoted an old cliche' saying
"no two countries with nuclear weapons ever went to war with each other"
someone pointed out Pakistan and India
but
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1971
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction
.
so I guess maybe the quote is correct
Then stop ignoring the obvious and call out the instigators BEFORE hostilities break out! Stop your sanctimonious whining and organize a march on the Iranian embassy and hold them accountable for their stated goal of annihilating Israel, their sponsorship of the genocide in Syria, and their stonewalling of the IAEA's inspectors.
Of course, that would take some real courage.
the two counties have two countries between them
I am with Thunderclap.... War is profitable for some.. Watching the Iran situation....well..it is just like waiting for a shoe to drop.... We send kids over and another war starts up again.... We are not the wealthiest country in the word- we are bleeding out in terms of debt. if we want to police Iran now, we may be finished on the economic front.
Give war a chance.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/give-war-a-chance/
In the fight for suffrage (the woman's right to vote),
the national movement targeted the ruling party (Wilson democrat)
because they were not allowing passage for women voters.
.
The woman's activist worker on getting women votes state by state
denounced the the national suffrage party
because they felt the democrats would keep the US out of world war 1.
.
Once the democrats committed to the war,
the national suffrage party force the issue of women's right to vote
by hunger strike and getting arrested.
.
To make the issue of suffrage was in line with the war effort,
the US claimed to be more democratic than the Kaiser
by giving woman the right to vote.
.
While social issues are often entangled with war,
war is not responsible for their inception.
War seems to be mainly a man-thing. There are exceptions. Margret Thatcher comes to mind. But when given the opportunity women seem to apply a little more diligence to the search for other solutions.
Lew Rockwell speaks on the 1 minute mark for 8 minutes in this interview. Lew seems to be a pretty good speaker.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_blH6m6CGUk&feature=player_embedded
fascism = US state for US rule over the rest of the world
I agree, bring all the troops home.
they could run public healthcare
Or, they could just do whatever. Military personnel are highly coveted in the private sector. Let them do what they want.
I'm just trying to fund a well organized health care system
Okay, cool. Me, too. I think the most efficient way to do that is to reduce the barriers that make other people not want to fund the system, so that we don't have to.
Hear, hear.
Found Some Great Links related to the work of Keith Harmon Snow that I never saw before. Maybe these are good references for other discussions.
http://www.consciousbeingalliance.com/
http://allthingspass.com/
http://blackagendareport.com/blog/144
http://ww4report.com/ This one looks like it has even more stuff.
Sometimes destruction can be kinda addictive. Now how do we break that addiction?
riding my bicycle
I met a Vietnam Vet in Iowa on the 4th of July in 1990
he took me in, washed my gear and took me to see the fireworks that evening
he told that he didn't eat meat because it made him mean
What does that have to do with my post?
I've no solution for destructive habits
a met someone who thought meat made him aggressive
"War..huh..what is it good for...say it again" name that tune/artist
All wars are fought for natural resources$$$$$
or perhaps the need to create a market for established weapons factories
BUT THE CLASS WAR
wilst wealth may be unfairly suggest ,
one hopes to avoid bloodshed
The blood of the 1% should flow like a river.
Literal blood? Or financial blood?
Literal blood. Otherwise I would have said red ink should flow like a river of blood.
Am I understanding you are advocating actual physical violence against the so called 1%?
Of course. What of it?
if the problem is solved with violence,
the violent will be in power
The violent are always in power.
Even nonviolence depends on state violence to expose the violence of the state. And what about crime? Are you against using violence to stop murderers and rapists?
You may be correct, the red ink flowing didn't change a thing.
They just took more.
no war unless necesary!!! abolish the us army like japan did:D
employ them in government health care and construction
War produces immense profits for war profiteers. Reason for the Iraq war. Always keep in mind that Mitsubishi-Japan, Siemens-Germany and General Electric were huge corporations that are still around today that made untold billions during World War ll.
no one spekas of the profits made by war just the goal of winning
Donald Rumsfeld files reveal Pre-9/11 focus on Iraq
Posted 2 days ago on Dec. 11, 2011, 9:09 a.m. EST by theaveng This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Thousands of documents reveal an early focus on Iraq, even before 9/11, and planned to launch a war against Iraq mere the same day as towers were attacked. “Think of what happened after 9/11, the minute before there was any assessment, there was glee in the administration because now we can invade Iraq, and so the war drums beat,” Congressman Paul said. “That’s exactly what they’re doing now with Iran.”
While the nation reacted with shock and horror at the devastation and destruction, George W. Bush himself gloated to his budget director, Mitch Daniels, “Lucky me–I hit the trifecta!” and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld began issuing rapid orders: “Hard to get good case. Need to move swiftly,” the notes state. “Near term target needs – go massive – sweep it all up, things related and not.”
ARTICLE - http://www.aolnews.com/2011/02/08/donald-rumsfeld-files-reveal-pre-9-11-focus-on-iraq/?a_dgi=aolshare_facebook
[-] randart 1 points 2 days ago
Rumsfeld was working for a chemical company that sold the ingredients for weapons of mass destruction to Iraq long before he was in politics with Bush and Cheney. There are photos of him shaking hands with Saddam Hussein as the chemical deal was made. He was the guy who helped gas the Kurds through his role in selling the materials for making the gas.
That is why Rumsfeld was SO sure that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction, he sold them to him.
[-] theaveng -4 points 2 days ago
So where did the WMDs disappear to?
They never existed. Just like Iran's nukes do not exist (but we'll probably justify it to go to war anyway).
[-] randart -4 points 2 days ago
I agree. The weapons never existed. Chemicals can be used in many different ways besides instruments of death.
The on-the ground-inspectors were able to look everywhere but Bush and Cheney wanted an excuse to get the oil so they extracted the inspectors and began to bomb. I especially liked the artist sketches of the factories that were being used in the manufacture of said weapons. That was enough to sell it to congress. Colin Powell lost all honor and credibility when he went before congress with cartoons of weapons of mass destruction and "proof" of yellow cake uranium being bought, which turned out to be false.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/donald-rumsfeld-files-reveal-pre-911-focus-on-iraq/
Yes! It's a Truth!
the earth is pretty much a closed system
KANDAHAR, Afghanistan —
Six children were among seven civilians killed in a NATO airstrike in southern Afghanistan, Afghan officials said Thursday.
The deaths occurred on Wednesday in the Zhare district of Kandahar Province, an area described by coalition forces as largely pacified in recent months, and two insurgents were also killed, the Afghan officials said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/25/world/asia/six-afghan-children-are-killed-in-nato-airstrike.html
(ISLAMABAD) — Afghanistan officials claimed Sunday that Afghan and NATO forces were retaliating for gunfire from two Pakistani army bases when they called in airstrikes that killed 24 Pakistani soldiers, adding a layer of complexity to an episode that has further strained Pakistan's ties with the United States.
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2100342,00.html#ixzz1f1D5MBrL
Hi im darren check out my blog http://youngphilosopher89.wordpress.com its left wing reflecting my anarcho-syndicalist views
sounds like a green party strategy to control government locally
"War would be made Illegal and no committees at any level will have the power to declare war or any kind of aggression on any level of its own society or a society abroad! Now remember I see all societies using this system, it is only when this system is global that war will end, so till then we will have to have a military for safety but the ultimate aim is to make military irrelevant in this new world!"
a party strategy? go educate yourself son.. how can it be a party strategy when federalization is on communities and regions with each electing people from their communities to sit on community councils? this is a system where the people have a real involvement in democracy. where the workers own and run the means of production, where every person gets free education and healthcare and soon. yes its a strategy of people power
Voting RONPAUL is one way to stop it....He has virtually no backing from wall st and the most from military families but is the most banned on this forum.
.
he's not a republican front runner
nor do I believe he's interested in social programs
so your own dependence on a larger government is more important than the killing and destruction of millions of lives ..In your name?
He is winning...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbB79LX7DSg
I have to choose between having a donkey wife or a baboon heart?
I want public health care
the conspiracy is simpler if one approaching it in
the number of weapons produced sold and used by the united states
the weapons industry just like the cigarette industry is interested in maintaining it's market
It's Time to Change: War
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCuH3Rr6mME
factory efficient destruction
Hmmmm.... no such thing as a just war, eh ? Never, under any circumstances ?
no.
I agree. It could be a good theme for an Occupy protest maybe?
yes
”War is an instrument entirely inefficient toward redressing wrong; and multiplies, instead of indemnifying losses."
Thomas Jefferson
some called him a word smith
WAR has not solved anything except: slavery, Naziism, fascism, communism(almost), tyranny, and dictatorships.......Besides it also creates a good economy, if the war is an actual war and not a "police action" ..............war will never leave this planet and if anything it will happen more and more.....it is NEVER going to leave...its time you realize that you hippie
doom
that makes no sense.....looks like i just won the argument...
Global Arms Sales By Supplier Nations
39% United States
18% Russia
8% France
7% United Kingdom
5% Germany
3% China
3% Italy
11% Other European
5% Others
http://www.globalissues.org/article/74/the-arms-trade-is-big-business#GlobalArmsSalesBySupplierNations
this distresses me
other nations don't sell as many weapons
[-] rockyracoon 7 points 1 week ago
it's important to be able to discuss about 911. these lies and ensuing fake war on terror and deep politics are much to do with our current situation.
[-] alouis (New York, NY) 2 points 1 week ago
This seems to be the great divide. Which 9/11 conspiracy do you endorse? The one with the Arab in the cave in Afghanistan or the one that asks "where the hell was the US Airforce?" Are the events of that day worth
http://occupywallst.org/forum/moderating-policies-will-be-reposted-somewhere-pro/#comment-244456
I don't think the airforce had time to react
either way
the fall of the twin towers
lead to the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan
"
When a country decides to invest in arms, rather than in education, housing, the environment, and health services for its people, it is depriving a whole generation of its right to prosperity and happiness.
We have produced one firearm for every ten inhabitants of this planet,
and yet we have not bothered to end hunger when such a feat is well within our reach.
Our international regulations allow almost three-quarters of all global arms sales to pour into the developing world with no binding international guidelines whatsoever.
Our regulations do not hold countries accountable for what is done with the weapons they sell, even when the probable use of such weapons is obvious.[15]
"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_industry
Yes, frightening stuff
lazy
it's easier to simply kill
Weapons are the only products that once made, provide no return on investment and in their use destroy more wealth. How come we recognize destroying property as unacceptable except in wars? The poverty of our collective imagination is depressive.
humans relate on shared thoughts and ideas through the physical world they exist in
Only two candidates in the main parties for President are peace candidates. What a sad state of affairs.
ok, I've heard ron . who is the other ?
Gary Johnson.
D. Free Speech and Media Reform E. Foreign Policy
Peace and Disarmament
A Real Road to Peace in the Middle East
Trade
Human Rights
Women's Rights
Puerto Rican Independence
Green Party of the United States Platform 2010 as adopted by the Green National Committee
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-not-vote-for-the-green-party/
Jackthelad (Woree, QLD) 2 points 2 days ago
No wonder the US is in so much debt, just have a look at its defence spending.
Why did the US drop more bombs on Vietnam and Cambodia than were dropped in the whole of WWII?
Why does the US use first world weapons killing people in third world countries?
schrubs 1 points 2 days ago
The military-industrial-congressional lobby complex wants endless war, win or lose, to keep the dollars pouring in. Oops, the civilians were in the way.
Mooks 1 points 2 days ago
Defense spending creates a ton of good jobs, both in the military and civilian sectors.
schrubs 1 points 1 day ago
"Robert Pollin, a professor at the University of Massachusetts-Amherst who has compared job creation from military spending to other sectors, said dollars for defense certainly would create jobs.
"It's no surprise to say, with $700 billion ... you better be creating a lot of jobs," Pollin said.
The issue, however, is how many jobs.
A study that Pollin and Heidi Garrett-Peltier conducted in 2009 found that spending $1 billion on health care, education or clean energy, or cutting taxes, created more jobs across all pay ranges than spending the equivalent amount on the military. Investment in education generated about 29,100 jobs from $1 billion in spending compared with 19,600 jobs from health care, 17,100 from clean energy and 11,600 from the military, according to the analysis.
"Channeling funds into clean energy, health care and education in an effective way will therefore create significantly greater opportunities for decent employment throughout the U.S. economy than spending the same amount of funds with the military," the two wrote in a study based on Commerce Department data.
Pollin said Thursday that an updated study is forthcoming — and the conclusions are the same.
Said Rep. Jim McGovern, D-Mass.: "Defense spending is a poor way to create jobs. You can create more jobs investing in other areas."
http://www.statesmanjournal.com/article/20111106/OPINION/111060348/Spin-Meter-GOP-flips-job-creation-defense
spending money in health care would create more jobs than spending money on ammunition
Profit of war
Postby Matt Holck » Sat Nov 15, 2008 11:10 am I've always been upset by the cliche' "War is profittable" since destruction is the means of execution still many claim that war is motivated by profits. Without profit, war would not be funded.
To the victor go the spoils Sufice it to say that war profits a few while wasting resource to do so. Since destruction is easier than construction, it is used as a method of control.
http://forums.sykospark.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=22427&start=0
I think a good portion of the military can be shifted into public health care
http://www.newser.com/story/119796/next-in-budget-crosshairs-afghanistan-war.html
Newser) – With budget battles in Washington growing ever fiercer and the US military poised to spend $113 billion on operations in Afghanistan this year, cost is going to be the largest factor in troop reductions there, reports the Washington Post. Afghanistan's inaccessibility and lack of resources means nearly everything the military uses must be brought in and built from scratch—roughly $1 million per soldier per year. “Where we’re at right now is simply not sustainable,” said one senior administration official.
the total US budget was 3,456 billion in 2010
Military-Industrial Complex, yo.
It can be defined as, “an informal and changing coalition of groups with vested psychological, moral, and material interests in the continuous development and maintenance of high levels of weaponry, in preservation of colonial markets and in military-strategic conceptions of internal affairs”
IRAN
"The 1953 Iranian coup d'état (known in Iran as the 28 Mordad coup[3]) was the overthrow of the democratically elected government of Iranian Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh on 19 August 1953, orchestrated by the intelligence agencies of the United Kingdom and the United States under the name TPAJAX Project.[4] The coup saw the transition of Mohammad-Rezā Shāh Pahlavi from a constitutional monarch to an authoritarian one who relied heavily on United States support to hold on to power until his own overthrow in February 1979.[5]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat
"Iran Air Flight 655 (IR655) was a civilian jet airliner shot down by U.S. missiles on 3 July 1988, over the Strait of Hormuz, toward the end of the Iran–Iraq War."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
ModestCapitalist wrote 1 points 41 minutes ago
According to the Social Security Administration, 50 percent of U.S. workers made less than $26,364 in 2010. In addition, those making less than $200,000, or 99 percent of Americans, saw their earnings fall by $4.5 billion collectively. The sobering numbers were a far cry from what was going on for the richest one percent of Americans. The incomes of the top one percent of the wage scale in the U.S. rose in 2010; and their collective wage earnings jumped by $120 billion. In addition, those earning at least $1 million a year in wages, which is roughly 93,000 Americans, reported payroll income jumped 22 percent from 2009. Overall, the economy has shed 5.2 million jobs since the start of the Great Recession in 2007. It’s the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression in the 1930’s.
Another word about the first Great Depression. It really was a perfect storm. Caused almost entirely by greed. First, there was unprecedented economic growth. There was a massive building spree. There was a growing sense of optimism and materialism. There was a growing obsession for celebrities. The American people became spoiled, foolish, naive, brainwashed, and love-sick. They were bombarded with ads for one product or service after another. Encouraged to spend all of their money as if it were going out of style. Obscene profits were hoarded at the top. All of this represented a MASSIVE transfer of wealth from poor to rich. Executives, entrepreneurs, developers, celebrities, and share holders. By 1929, America's wealthiest 1 percent had accumulated around 40% of all United States wealth. The upper class held around 30%. The middle and lower classes were left to share the rest. When the majority finally ran low on money to spend, profits declined and the stock market crashed. Of course, the rich threw a fit and started cutting jobs. They would stop at nothing to maintain their disgusting profit margins and ill-gotten obscene levels of wealth as long as possible. The small business owners did what they felt necessary to survive. They cut more jobs. The losses were felt primarily by the little guy. This created a domino effect. The middle class shrunk drastically and the lower class expanded. With less wealth in reserve and active circulation, banks failed by the hundreds. More jobs were cut. Unemployment reached 25% in 1933. The worst year of the Great Depression. Those who were employed had to settle for much lower wages. Millions went cold and hungry. The recovery involved a massive infusion of new currency, a World War, and higher taxes on the rich. With so many men in the service, so many women on the production line, and those higher taxes to help pay for it, the lions share of United States wealth was gradually transfered back to the middle class. This redistribution of wealth continued until the mid seventies. This was the recovery. A massive redistribution of wealth. Then it began to concentrate all over again. Here we are 35 years later. The richest one percent now own well over 40 percent of all US wealth. The lower 90 percent own less than 10 percent of all US wealth. This is true even after taxes, welfare, financial aid, and charity. It is the underlying cause. No redistribution. No recovery.
The government won't step in and do what's necessary. Not this time. It's up to us. Support small business more and big business less. Support the little guy more and the big guy less. It's tricky but not impossible. No redistribution. No recovery.
Those of you who agree on these major issues are welcome to summarize this post, copy it, link to it, save it, show a friend, or spread the word in any fashion. Most major cities have daily call-in talk radio shows. You can reach thousands of people at once. They should know the ugly truth. Be sure to quote the figures which prove that America's wealth is still being concentrated. I don't care who takes the credit. We are up against a tiny but very powerful minority who have more influence on the masses than any other group in history. They have the means to reach millions at once with outrageous political and commercial propaganda. Those of us who speak the ugly truth must work incredibly hard just to be heard.
I heard farmers poured their milk into ditches because it was worth nothing
Resources were being squandered in the US
I don't think the "war economy" was necessary to distribute those resources
"There is a crime here that goes beyond denunciation. There is a sorrow here that weeping cannot symbolize. There is a failure here that topples all our success. The fertile earth, the straight tree rows, the sturdy trunks, and the ripe fruit. And children dying of pellagra must die because a profit cannot be taken from an orange. And coroners must fill in the certificates--died of malnutrition--because the food must rot, must be forced to rot. The people come with nets to fish for potatoes in the river, and the guards hold them back; they come in rattling cars to get the dumped oranges, but the kerosene is sprayed. And they stand still and watch the potatoes float by, listen to the screaming pigs being killed in a ditch and covered with quicklime, watch the mountains of oranges slop down to a putrefying ooze; and in the eyes of the people there is a failure; and in the eyes of the hungry there is a growing wrath. In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage."
-Grapes of Wrath
ModestCapitalist 1 points 8 minutes ago
I agree that war is a horrible thing. But I also believe that it is sometimes necessary. Not that I agree with every war effort. In fact, I think Viet Nam and Iraq were both mistakes.
But WWII was funded primarily on tax increases. The men were off to war and getting paid. The women were in the factories getting paid. By the end of WWII, the middle class were in decent shape again. Most of the tax policies were left in place for another 30 years. That redistribution of wealth from the rich back to the majority was absolutely necessary.
MattLHolck 1 points 3 minutes ago
only because the US couldn't pay their people without having them work in factories
and to move the US resources
ModestCapitalist 1 points 2 minutes ago
Agreed.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/is-ows-a-bunch-of-protesters-or-squatters-not-inte/#comment-281066
"I heard farmers poured their milk into ditches because it was worth nothing" Brainwash put upon people to keep corporations from losing money. Read Studs Terkel's book, Hard Times: An Oral History of the Great Depression. In it you read eye witness accounts of how the local sheriffs were called out to guard huge fields of perfectly good produce that was plowed under to keep people from going there to dig it up to eat. They would also slaughter beef and poultry and bury them. And post sheriffs with guns to shoot on sight anyone that would try to dig any of it up.
Posted by hotdoghenry 1 points 24 days ago
Actually you can fight fire with fire. It's done all the time.
MattLHolck 1 points 24 days ago
on occasion there may be back burning
to remove available fuel for the main blazes border
so it doesn't further spread
but generally water is used
You mean to say... war is bad? Whoa! That is, like, totally original and stuff, man!
zeitgeist suggests war is a social diseases
that humans attacking humans in an organized fashion
is not part of our animal nature
No, the evidence indicates that it is very much a part of our 'animal nature'; you're being romantic.
we like to imagine primitive life was perfect
As a British citizen, I just wanted to send my apologies to Iran for my war mongering government. I'm so embarrassed that I was born here and I have lost all faith in my Nation. I hope that you get peace and you are ready to protect yourselves, as if we were being attacked without warrant, I would too. Peace is something I wish for every day, I don't believe in any god, but I do believe in people and their ability to not fight anymore. They only want your oil, Im so sad that at times all I do is wonder why I was born. If this is the world, and progress, then I want no part of it. There are millions or British people that are thoroughly ashamed of what is about to happen.
"
Iraq's economy is dominated by the petroleum sector, which has traditionally provided about 95% of foreign exchange earnings.[2] In the 1980s, financial problems caused by massive expenditures in the eight-year war with Iran and damage to oil export facilities by Iran led the government to implement austerity measures, borrow heavily, and later reschedule foreign debt payments; Iraq suffered economic losses of at least $80 billion from the war.[3] After the end of hostilities, in 1988, oil exports gradually increased with the construction of new pipelines and restoration of damaged facilities.[4]
"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Iraq
Kleptocratic hypocrisy exposed: USA to prop up Ugandan dicatorship
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056422435
[QUOTE=ed2hands;75217414]
Couldn't agree more there baked noodle.
Not a jot of difference between the two administrations. Same ****, just with different colours on their lapel during the elections. Exactly the same benefactors.
Can the US administration blatantly concentrate only on stripping (or as they like to say[I] "investing in"[/I]) the African continents resources and exploiting it's people by using NATO/Africom/World Bank/IMF while hypocritically propping up a far more blood-thirsty regimes?
Yes we can.
violent leaders make use of american made weapons
United States and weapons of mass destruction
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/United_States_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction
biological land chemistry labs can be converted to medicine
nuclear weapons to nuclear power
Cowards
Posted Oct. 31, 2011, 7:38 p.m. EST (7 minutes ago) by cpmorrison26 This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Muhammed Ali, Rocky Marciano both went AWOL or refused to serve and won world boxing championships. However even those who volunteer and then decide to leave because the war is for corporate proffit are not wrong. An analogy: we can all basically agree the government is like a mafia. Now out of fear, or necessity one might be coerced into joining the government mafia and promising to go to Iraq and do a Hit for them. Who can say it is wrong to back out of the hit when you realize these aren't bad people, they're being killed over money? Furthermore how is it not courageous to stand against the biggest mafia on earth: The US Government.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-awol-soldiers-are-not-cowards/
Muhammed Ali
n 1967, three years after Ali had won the World Heavyweight Championship, he was publicly vilified for his refusal to be conscripted into the U.S. military, based on his religious beliefs and opposition to the Vietnam War – "I ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Cong... No Vietcong ever called me nigger" – one of the more telling remarks of the era.[6]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Ali
thevoiceofthepeople 1 points 15 seconds ago
The emphasis of the title needs to be placed on the right side of the argument.
Equal sacrifice? let's not sacrifice anyone for the military industrial complex.
We should not demand equal sacrifice by unnecessarily jailing more white people in proportion to minorities.
We should not demand equal sacrifice by tapping the phone of more innocent people of different political opinions,
Sacrifice for purposes that are justified for peace, security and prosperity and equality.
Not blanket militarism - have you learned nothing from the American Empire of the past Century?
I am not belittling the sacrifice of US troops, I am lamenting the lies and lack of opportunity that has driven them into the ranks, then repeating their terms of enlistment against their wills.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/reinstate-the-draft-no/#comment-249835
Documented civilian deaths from violence
103,253 – 112,823
Full analysis of the WikiLeaks' Iraq War Logs may add 15,000 civilian deaths.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/
Now Obama is sending thousands of troops to the Middle East on ships and expanded bases to be ready for the next war. Change we can believe in. Nobel Peace Prize winner.
the budget for the military seems bottomless
or don't ask don't tell
All military spending steals from the 99% and gives to the 1%.
there are average joes that work in weapons factories
Excess weapons factories should be converted for civilian products; no jobs lost.
I haven't figured out what to convert those machine into
bombs scour and screech
a blizzard of meat
mismeasure the margin
sacrifice citizens
the ease of explosion
to erase all exception
destruction's too easy
quick energy eruptions
You know what, sometimes you gotta go to war. I don't think recently our leaders have made the best decisions about when to go to war and when not to, then again I'm not privy to most of the information they're using to make those decisions because it's pretty much all classified. But, say for instance WWII? Yeah we needed to be in on that.
control of the seas has given the US and England a trade advantage
Yep. And it creates huge debts for all parties involved. Guess who gains?
the banks own the loans
I call it banksters (all lenders; especially having self interest at the end of the war).
and when the debt cannot be paid force will be need to extract collection
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cbUAwCE7JVY#t=48s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxmtreWQoVs&feature=player_profilepage
This is a rather anonymous SONG-CHANT-RANT offering, that will hopefully unify our message on the streets. Imparting some basic historical information that has lead to the continued debasing of free forms of Government. Where a select group of power seekers never seem to have enough of anything, including us.This is a very serious time for the FREE Global Community, our only weapon is Martin Luther King's legacy. They further try to discredit us with accusations of not having a coherent message when their only endgame is to further in-slave us! Abusing others until there is only two classes the Haves and Have-Not's. we’ just not gonna’ take it no more we’ just not gonna’ take it no more we’ just not gonna’ take it no more
nothing’s been the same since jfk eisenhower warned us it would get this way a vast military-industrial-complex a vast military-industrial-complex
were out here to show the one percentors we’ just not gonna’ take it no more we’ just not gonna’ take it no more
oly norquist pledged most congress (oly’ = satire oliver north)
to his power lil’ oly’ norquist pledged most congress (piglet)
to his power
we’ know who you are were’ tired of our voices not counting
we’ just not gonna’ take it no more we’ just not gonna’ take it no more we’ just not gonna’ take it no more
were out on the streets to get our “countries” back
until foreign trade benefits---the 99%
were out on the streets to get our “countries” back
until foreign trade benefits---the 99%
were’ just not gonna’ take it no more were’ just not gonna’ take it no more were’ just not gonna’ take it no more
so, your’ spreadin’ democracy all over --the world your’ spreadin’ democracy all over --the world
it’s gotten’ so corrupt even we---don’t understand it!
so, your’ spreadin’ democracy all over --the world spreadin’ your’ democracy all over --the world
it’s gotten’ so corrupt even we---don’t understand it!
bring back our soldiers’s your cor-poor-et wars are all over bring back our soldiers’s your cor-poor-et wars are all over
were out here to show the one percentors we’ just not gonna’ take it no more we’ just not gonna’ take it no more
it’s too bad we hav-at spell it out but liars never listen they just -run their mouths
a thousand point of light all over the world
a new world order the bil-dah-burgers can go to hell
were’ just not gonna’ take it no more were’ just not gonna’ take it no more were’ just not gonna’ take it no more------
were’ just not gonna’ take it no more!
krw4u5@yahoo.com
this has already been posted on this thread
http://occupywallst.org/forum/no-war/#comment-241404
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cbUAwCE7JVY#t=48s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxmtreWQoVs&feature=player_profilepage
This is a rather anonymous SONG-CHANT-RANT offering, that will hopefully unify our message on the streets. Imparting some basic historical information that has lead to the continued debasing of free forms of Government. Where a select group of power seekers never seem to have enough of anything, including us.This is a very serious time for the FREE Global Community, our only weapon is Martin Luther King's legacy. They further try to discredit us with accusations of not having a coherent message when their only endgame is to further in-slave us! Abusing others until there is only two classes the Haves and Have-Not's. we’ just not gonna’ take it no more we’ just not gonna’ take it no more we’ just not gonna’ take it no more
nothing’s been the same since jfk eisenhower warned us it would get this way a vast military-industrial-complex a vast military-industrial-complex
were out here to show the one percentors we’ just not gonna’ take it no more we’ just not gonna’ take it no more
oly norquist pledged most congress (oly’ = satire oliver north)
to his power lil’ oly’ norquist pledged most congress (piglet)
to his power
we’ know who you are were’ tired of our voices not counting
we’ just not gonna’ take it no more we’ just not gonna’ take it no more we’ just not gonna’ take it no more
were out on the streets to get our “countries” back
until foreign trade benefits---the 99%
were out on the streets to get our “countries” back
until foreign trade benefits---the 99%
were’ just not gonna’ take it no more were’ just not gonna’ take it no more were’ just not gonna’ take it no more
so, your’ spreadin’ democracy all over --the world your’ spreadin’ democracy all over --the world
it’s gotten’ so corrupt even we---don’t understand it!
so, your’ spreadin’ democracy all over --the world spreadin’ your’ democracy all over --the world
it’s gotten’ so corrupt even we---don’t understand it!
bring back our soldiers’s your cor-poor-et wars are all over bring back our soldiers’s your cor-poor-et wars are all over
were out here to show the one percentors we’ just not gonna’ take it no more we’ just not gonna’ take it no more
it’s too bad we hav-at spell it out but liars never listen they just -run their mouths
a thousand point of light all over the world
a new world order the bil-dah-burgers can go to hell
were’ just not gonna’ take it no more were’ just not gonna’ take it no more were’ just not gonna’ take it no more------
were’ just not gonna’ take it no more!
American Dad - Oliver North song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juxm4P4fnq8
Stop nato warcrime cover up..Expose the 1%
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcMNJBvY2cU
my friend was very upset by these images
I told her that is natural human compassion
She doesn't understand how humans can be trained to commit such acts
what started as a peaceful call in Libya ended in violence
Started as peaceful? I think the protestors were always armed..It started in Bengaji where they took the court house..where today the alcaida flag is flying. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAfBoOsYK1c&feature=youtu.be
I urge anyone to find evidence that libyan forces fired on peaceful protesters..Share and prove me wrong.
I haven't seen any
It creates debt!
yep
Its extremely profitable for those funding and creating goods and services, for said war.
no
the weapons factories are subsidized by the government
Your point? The more you destroy the more they, munitions manufactures, make. The more they, munitions manufactures, make the more those funding the effort make.....
no product is produced
Obama’s withdrawal from Iraq: Prelude to wider war
While promoted by President Obama and his apologists as the fulfillment of a campaign promise and a turn toward peace, the US military’s forced withdrawal from Iraq only sets the stage for new and bloodier conflicts.
Obama’s announcement from the White House last Friday that all US troops will be out of the country before the end of the year followed Washington’s inability to secure from the Iraqi government of Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki approval of legislation granting US forces blanket immunity from Iraqi law.
Such impunity is a minimal condition demanded by the Pentagon for US military deployments all over the world. However, so bitter are the experiences of the Iraqi population with a whole litany of war crimes—from the torture chambers of Abu Ghraib to the barbaric siege of Fallujah—that no major Iraqi party could afford to be identified with extending such protection to the American military.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/oct2011/pers-o27.shtml
US forces don't need blanket immunity from Iraqi Law
War is incredibly profitable, just ask Halliburton, Blackwater, Northrop, and all the other corporations in the military industrial complex.
certainly the perpetrators of destruction profit
I understand that got all the rebuild contracts as well
War...war never changes
UNLESS
You destroy those greedy bastards and let good-hearted people live fair lives! Then it changes ALOT of things!
violence cannot be used the control the situation
ready to take from Iran.. ha... ha..a
we've had problems with Iran in the past but never invaded Iran
In the 80s, the US supported Saddam Hussein in Iraq with weapons and military advisers to fight Iran.
WAR is too good for business to stop! All wars have been orchestrated, created, and prolonged intentionally. We need to let go of the "us and them" attitude. We're all humans. And the global masses just want peace.
Us and Them - Pink Floyd (Studio Version)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcG47CpsU6c
King of the Mountain by Andrea Potts
http://www.myspace.com/andreapottsmusic/music/songs/king-of-the-mountain-35961969
War represents the supreme failure of nations to resolve their differences. From a strictly pragmatic standpoint it is the most inefficient waste of lives and resources ever conceived by any creature on the planet - Jacque Fresco
when there is an excess of resource,
it can be squandered to keep the "economy" moving
By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.
how does reflection differ from imitation?
Reflection is your own image, Imitation is that of another
what... please... war is one of the most profitable events. one can only hope to supply goods to a war. as we (USA) the largest user of raw materials in the world, we need to take from the weak, so our out of work and youths and get a new cell phone every year
the human need to justify actions (jobs)
when all the domestic work
(farms has been monopolized, privatized and automated)
The usual suspects propose retaliation for fake Iran plot:
http://www.activistpost.com/2011/10/us-hardliners-urge-iran-plot.html
Here we go, WW3
the quotes sound like an action movie
Yeah, they think we're going to fall for this crap again...
Sadly, I think they will - there doesn't seem to be much if any political resolve in OWS as a whole to stop these wars.
the resolve for non-violence is strong
Yes, but non-violence and a demand to end the wars is NOT the same thing. I wrote a thread on this but nobody responded.
if the title can be recalled
the address might still be stored in the browser
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ [thread-title]
[Deleted]
The US is only nation to have a national anthem about war
" n 1845 Thoreau built himself a house in the woods on land owned by Emerson. The following year he was imprisoned for refusing to pay his poll tax. His opposition to the Mexican War resulted in the influential essay, Civil Disobedience (1849). Thoreau's argument that it was morally justified to peacefully resist unjust laws inspired Americans involved in the struggle against slavery and the fight for trade union rights and women's suffrage. "
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAthoreau.htm
what these financial institution do is loan money until it cannot be paid back
then move in and collect the resources be that oil or a foreclosed home
because these methods are unfair
police and military powers are often used to "collect"
MattLHolck 1 points 9 hours ago
I'm going to vote green if the add ending wars to their platform
BradB 1 points 9 hours ago
how about "Get Profit Out of War" ?
MattLHolck 1 points 9 hours ago
that could be construed either way
get profit out of(from) War
get Profit out of(away from) WAR
BradB 1 points 9 hours ago
hehehe... too true... need to fix that ;)
how about "Get Profit Away from War" ?
MattLHolck 1 points 9 hours ago
that sounds good
but Ending War is simple and direct
money need not be asked to do the task
BradB 1 points 9 hours ago
ok.... here's the dilemma... people have been saying... "End War" for eternity .. so it will be shook off as another pie in the sky thing... so ... little steps .... "Get Profit Away from War" it starts moving in the right dirrection
BradB 1 points 9 hours ago
I agree ... but it does advertise the main problem .. no ?
hmmmm, I got to think about that .... "End War" sounds so much better...
MattLHolck 1 points 0 seconds ago
I think letting the money system puts off the issue
when humans are capable of stopping war
If troops are deployed, impeachments need to happen.
.mmmmm
oct 21 2011 (User Submitted)
Posted Oct. 25, 2011, 1:52 a.m. EST (16 minutes ago) by wallstreetgrome99
oct. 20,2011 Gorbachev is killed when his plane is attacked by a Stinger surface-to-air missile in East Germany 2 Comments
MattLHolck 1 points 2 minutes ago
the assassins for attention seem to be working double shifts
don't let the world turn violent
wallstreetgrome99 1 points 9 minutes ago
military heads take control in Moscow, accuse the CIA of responsibility for the assassination
I had a government job in computer automated electrical laser research for the Navy.
I resigned after the US started dropping bombs on Iraq (again)
I was unable to get a job in the field of optics afterwards
mgiddin1 (Linthicum, MD) 1 points 25 minutes ago
Don't hold your breath. They're not bringing any of those troops back. If anything they'll march over to Iran and Obomba will send more over as reinforcements.
My problem is: WHY ISN'T THIS ON THE AGENDA of OWS?
MattLHolck 1 points 22 minutes ago
a perpetual state of war has been accepted as the norm
mgiddin1 (Linthicum, MD) 1 points 19 minutes ago
WHY? It is unacceptable to both the libertarians and the libs - who make up a large part of this forum. WHY are we letting this stand?
I had one guy tell me it's because OWS doesn't 'deal with foreign affairs'. How lame. Where do they think so much of this corporate money is going???
MattLHolck 1 points 15 minutes ago
maybe to an agency that can enforce collection like the military
I get the feeling the no war movement is suppressed because that real power lies in the hands of the war makers not the money shufflers
mgiddin1 (Linthicum, MD) 1 points 6 minutes ago
Exactly. Hello? Who do they think runs the military and profits from it? What about all these military contractors? Do they think Northrup Grumman and Haliburton are busy making Easter baskets?
I think it is categorically hypocritical for OWS NOT to focus on these endless, immoral, horrible wars. They are destroying the economy, human life, the environment, -and they are creating the very terrorists we are supposedly fighting against.
"I can promise you that women and men working together - linked, informed and educated - can bring peace and prosperity to this planet." Isabel Allende
"Isabel Allende Llona (born in Lima, Peru on August 2, 1942) is a Chilean writer with American citizenship.[1] Allende, whose works sometimes contain aspects of the "magic realist" tradition, is famous for novels such as The House of the Spirits (La casa de los espíritus) (1982) and City of the Beasts (La ciudad de las bestias) (2002), which have been commercially successful. Allende has been called "the world's most widely read Spanish-language author".[2] In 2010, she received Chile's National Literature Prize.[3] In 2004, Allende was inducted into the American Academy of Arts and Letters.[4]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isabel_Allende
America has Become a Military State (User Submitted)
Posted Oct. 23, 2011, 8:31 a.m. EST (2 hours ago) by shrubs
We sell the most weapons in the world. We make the most weapons in the world. We spend 6 times more than the next 3 countries combined for war. We have over 1000 military bases around the world. Our military is involved in over 100 countries around the world.
Just like the human body exists to keep the brain alive, the USA exists to make money to feed the military budget.
Democrats and republicans act as one to make cuts everywhere and hollow out America but not cut military activities or spending. No other country in the world can conquer us. Use diplomacy instead of guns. Rebuild America instead of blowing up the world.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/america-has-become-a-military-state/
ofcourse
the US needs to stop flying assassin drone planes in Pakistan
the idea that I could being playing crosswords and by shot by a death bird is a nightmare.
"Mankind must put an end to war before war puts an end to mankind." John F. Kennedy
understand the destruction of war is not a difficult
history is a wisdom often lost
found it. thanks! This 'forbidden' error is a pain. I tried the workaround but it didn't work for me.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/you-want-justice-you-want-freedom-demand-we-stop-o/
War is a money maker for the 1% we send our youth to die they make a profit selling arms and then the spoils of war.
Fed reserve prints money and bankrupts and takes real wealth land, oil, water and your days work.
War, Wall St and the Fed are just tools used by the very same people to enslave us, send us to war and make them Rich
war also create an "us vrs them" team where people will allow sacrifices for the good of the team
Oh, it produces something alright. It produces rampant fraud and wealth concentrated in the hands of the military industrial complex:
"Hundreds of defense contractors that defrauded the U.S. military received more than $1.1 trillion in Pentagon contracts during the past decade, according to a Department of Defense report prepared for Sen. Bernie Sanders. He called the report "shocking." He said aggressive steps must be taken to ensure taxpayer dollars aren't wasted. "The ugly truth is that virtually all of the major defense contractors in this country for years have been engaged in systemic fraudulent behavior, while receiving hundreds of billions of dollars of taxpayer money," said Sanders. "With the country running a nearly $15 trillion national debt, my goal is to provide as much transparency as possible about what is happening with taxpayer money." (source: http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=57672667-8958-44d9-936e-074de29f9be3)
groobiecat
[www.groobiecat.blogspot.com]
I don't understand the fraud these companies committed
You have to read the piece; hence the link:
"Another $255 million went to 54 contractors convicted of hard-core criminal fraud in the same period. Of that total, $33 million was paid to companies after they were convicted of crimes.
Some of the nation's biggest defense contractors were involved.
For example, Lockheed Martin in 2008 paid $10.5 million to settle charges that it defrauded the government by submitting false invoices on a multi-billion dollar contract connected to the Titan IV space launch vehicle program. That didn't seem to sour the relationship between Lockheed and the Defense Department, which gave Lockheed $30.2 billion in contracts in fiscal year 2009, more than ever before."
these number are billions and millions.
I had heard trillions
Bush starts wars, Obama ends them. Nuff said.
War has been perpetuated by the weapons companies long before either was President
You do NOT want to miss the MARINE who took on 30 COPS on Wall Street! (User Submitted)
Posted Oct. 22, 2011, 5:36 p.m. EST (1 hour ago) by TIOUAISE
Sergeant Shamar Thomas is the ultimate patriot, the quintessential American hero.
Over 2 million people have already seen - and heard! - him on YouTube:
"It does NOT make you tough to hurt these people!"
"There's NO HONOR in this shit!"
"Why are you doing this to people? They don't have guns!"
"There's no honor in harming unarmed civilians!"
[Orignal full version] 1 Marine vs. 30 Cops (By. J. handy) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmEHcOc0Sys&feature=related
I also recommend some of the interviews that followed:
Sergeant Shamar Thomas on Occupy Wall Street: "It's not a war zone" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7Jpn5D73cQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player
occupy wall street - USMC Sgt Shamar Thomas on Countdown w/ Keith Olbermann http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yEm87vZ82E&feature=related
Justice4All 1 points 1 minute ago
I agree with this. Our whole budget is defense since social security is "self-funding." Americans, literally---and I mean literally---get no benefit from this failed empire.
Worse, we get no return on all of that "investment" in defense. I had a project and was getting money from investors and they all failed, I would be ashamed of myself. Oh, we are failing on project Iraq. Oh, we are failing on project Afghanistan. Oh, and we are still working on project North Korea. Oh, we are still involved and losing money on project Europe.
Large false flag coming in 0-18 months,(probably after Obama is in office again), to get us into war with Iran. This is going to make Iraq and Afghanistan look like Disney World.
we need to take control, of our government
http://www.change.org/petitions/stop-the-pipeline-stop-fracking
Where there's a whip, there's a way!
http://youtu.be/YdXQJS3Yv0Y
.
I don't approve of Samwise instigating violence
I wish San had exercised more patients in finding an opportunity to escape
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=puyV00aGj54#!
Great band - great message
demonspawn79 1 points 21 hours ago
North Atlantic Terrorist Organization
soloenbarcelona (Barcelona, CT) 0 points 20 hours ago
lol, well terrorist for a good cause.
demonspawn79 1 points 20 hours ago
What a stupid comment.
soloenbarcelona (Barcelona, CT) 1 points 20 hours ago
Sorry, I have a different sense of humor, sarcasm, but I agree with you.
demonspawn79 2 points 20 hours ago
There's really nothing funny about what's going on. I'm furious and you should be too. This is no time for jokes, innocent people are being murdered in the streets.
soloenbarcelona (Barcelona, CT) 1 points 20 hours ago
Well you are right, and I´m furious too. You where the one making a joke calling NATO: North Atlantic Terrorist Organization
demonspawn79 1 points 20 hours ago
It wasn't a joke, they are terrorists. Anyway, I'm just really pissed off right now. Sorry for snapping at you.
Shocker. They were lying about Gaddafi. Turns out he implemented direct democracy, healthcare, education, and the gold dinar.
http://www.thetotalcollapse.com/who-is-muammar-gaddafi-lies-vs-truth/
I made a thread about the farce of Libya:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/picture-of-libya-before-after-this-is-what-democra/
"young Gaddafi in Libya trained and sent them back with the best weapons to win freedom in South Africa."
so Gaddafi was an arms dealer just like the US
Oh, there's no way he can compare to Fast & F--cked Eric Holder.
MattLHolck 2 points 1 day ago
the Military industrial complex was put together after the US participation in the first world war 1918
the president spoke to steal and weapons factories in a private board members
there has been conclusion to fund the weapons industry ever since
tsizzle (De Pere, WI) 1 points 1 day ago
true, but humanity is a warring species. profiting from it, like it or not, made the United States the largest most powerful economy in world history. So, there is some merit to the concept reply permalink
MattLHolck 1 points 1 day ago
I thought that was Britten due to controlling trade with it's navy.
tsizzle (De Pere, WI) 1 points 1 day ago
By the end of WWI, the economic shift to the United States was well underway. The British and the French still controlled the oil money in the middle east, but they also needed the money from the United States to prop up the empires. By the end of WWII, The United States was the only one standing. The British could no longer control the middle east despite its efforts in the U.N. The Suez crisis was the final shift in the power vacuum. The United States sided with the Soviets, essentially sealing the fate of the British and the French in the region. This opened the door for a bipolar hegemonic shift in world governance. The Soviets believed they could eventually shift the narrative away from U.S. capitalism. Unfortunately for them, they treated their Muslims worse than the United States did...the biggest example of this was the Soviet relationship with Gamal Nassar in Egypt. Despite Nassar's socialist leanings, the Soviet Union could never foster that into any strategic gamesmanship with the U.S., because they never gave him any reason to trust them more than the states. Post War Middle East diplomacy is something I studied in college quite a bit. One of my fav topics, but I won't bore you anymore than I already have.
MattLHolck 1 points 1 day ago
what was the Suez crisis ?
tsizzle (De Pere, WI) 1 points 1 day ago
the short version...1956, Nassar threatened to nationalize the Suez Canal, which was being jointly operated previously by the Egypt and Tripartite(Britain, France and Israel). In response, The Israelis, backed by the tripartite began a war to force Nassar out of power and return the Suez to its previous ownership. The war was a military disaster for Egypt and its arab backers (mostly Syria and Jordan). However, Eisenhower refused to get involved militarily and through financial pressure and diplomacy(imagine that?) forced the issue into the UN. where the Soviets and the U.S. backed an end to the conflict. The canal remained int he hands of the Egyptians, though natianlization attempts were futile. Israel's power increased. France and the US were never the same. Some argue that Vietnam involvement was a gift to restore US/French relations...yada yada yada...the crisis is way more involved than this, but you get the idea
MattLHolck 1 points 1 day ago
are trade ships blocked and/or taxed when passing through the Suez?
tsizzle (De Pere, WI) 1 points 6 hours ago
no, Egypt is bound to a treaty signed in the 19th century that provides free access to all necessary sea craft to pass through the canal...there is a toll, I have no idea what that amounts to however..
"20. An immediate withdrawal of all troops from Iraq and Afghanistan and a substantial increase in the amount of funding needed for veteran job placement and the treatment of the physical and emotional injuries sustained by veterans in these wars. Our veterans are committing suicide at an unprecedented rate and we must help now."
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/home
Emo Music
pink floyd - when the tigers broke free
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBeF-5i51RI&feature=related
"20. An immediate withdrawal of all troops from Iraq and Afghanistan and a substantial increase in the amount of funding needed for veteran job placement and the treatment of the physical and emotional injuries sustained by veterans in these wars. Our veterans are committing suicide at an unprecedented rate and we must help now."
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/home
Emo Music
pink floyd - when the tigers broke free
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBeF-5i51RI&feature=related
I have no objection to a War on Political Corruption, are you against that for some reason?
it's not a war
it's a responsibility to take control of our government
War is Keynesian. Maybe that will stop them.
It may be years before I finally understand the money system
Tax cuts are Keynesian. Government juking the economy is what it means.
Ha-joon Chang says 95 percent of economics is common sense. Run with that. It's easy to learn. The economic Policy Institute has all the stats.
they should make those public and compressible
They do.
Militarism may destroy us. Look closely at who runs for office, forget red or blue, and look at who is really going to change our country for the better. Forget about red herring issues like abortion..and gay marriage they are just there to divide us. Evolution dictates that abortion will remain legal and gay marriage will be universal, doesn't matter who is in charge. Vote for a politician that is not corrupt and can change things that are actually within his/her ability.
This is the best demand yet, I fully support it.
thank you
The only reason war exists is because someone has what someone else wants. Because of this, each nation fears attack and develops defense systems and weaponry, as well as paranoia.
If we made a United Federation of Nations, as well as a peace-keeping world court to settle disputes, this would be impossible. each nation would stand up for each other, protect eachother, and share.
I thought the UN was that
Yes, that was a good experiment. However, we still have wars, and we have not given them the power that is needed in order to settle these disputes. It was a good idea, but was not really developed to the point of potency.
However, this is difficult, because we would willingly give them power to settle these disputes. we must make sure there is no corruption within that power.
MattLHolck 2 points 7 hours ago
the Military industrial complex was put together after the US participation in the first world war 1918
the president spoke to steal and weapons factories in a private board members
there has been conclusion to fund the weapons industry ever since reply
↥ ↧ tsizzle (De Pere, WI) 1 points 59 minutes ago
true, but humanity is a warring species. profiting from it, like it or not, made the United States the largest most powerful economy in world history. So, there is some merit to the concept
↥ ↧ MattLHolck 1 points 52 minutes ago
I thought that was Britten due to controlling trade with it's navy.
↥ ↧ tsizzle (De Pere, WI) 1 points 12 minutes ago
By the end of WWI, the economic shift to the United States was well underway. The British and the French still controlled the oil money in the middle east, but they also needed the money from the United States to prop up the empires. By the end of WWII, The United States was the only one standing. The British could no longer control the middle east despite its efforts in the U.N. The Suez crisis was the final shift in the power vacuum. The United States sided with the Soviets, essentially sealing the fate of the British and the French in the region. This opened the door for a bipolar hegemonic shift in world governance. The Soviets believed they could eventually shift the narrative away from U.S. capitalism. Unfortunately for them, they treated their Muslims worse than the United States did...the biggest example of this was the Soviet relationship with Gamal Nassar in Egypt. Despite Nassar's socialist leanings, the Soviet Union could never foster that into any strategic gamesmanship with the U.S., because they never gave him any reason to trust them more than the states. Post War Middle East diplomacy is something I studied in college quite a bit. One of my fav topics, but I won't bore you anymore than I already have.
There is a good song about this theme.... I forget what its called. Maybe "war, the thing that isn't good for things" yes, something like that.
I remember when bombs dropped on Libya by NATO killed one of Ghadaffi's grandchild.
Obama made no apology or mention of the innocents killed by airstrikes
2 days later Bin Ladin was assassinated
and Obama never mentioned airstrikes in Libya hid victory speech
Pink Floyd - Goodbye Blue Sky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0v07InoFiU
Excitejax> For over Two Hundred Years Our Goverment has taken away the indians,mexicans,and africians way of life, land, and wealth, slaved the afican Americans, funded the over throw of other countries and supported uprisings around the would now it takes what little our own people have left just to control and to stay in power .
It's Time we take America Back and give it Back to its People
Excitejax> For over Two Hundred Years Our Goverment has taken away the indians,mexicans,and africians way of life, land, and wealth, slaved the afican Americans, funded the over throw of other countries and supported uprisings around the would now it takes what little our own people have left just to control and to stay in power .
It's Time we take America Back and give it Back to its People
Humans On Planet Earth HOPE...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QrDLwSgg24
that bull is like some idol from the mosaic period
The main business of the USA is war.
also agriculture, cars, technology, and trade
here are sub categories this forum could be ordered by
discuss Fed, bank and well street issues
reforming the government
civil disobedience
celebrity names (Obama , Ron Paul, Kosh, ..)
party issues (republican, democrat,green, OWS, cummunist ...)
congress bills
tax plans
Media interviews
protest site events
healthcare
the money system
ending the wars
trouble with trolls
race issues
general catch all
Forum Topics
http://occupywallst.org/forum/forum-topics/#comment-173126
No more war p http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOAS1EZIYVE&feature=related
some other discussions
gawdoftruth (Santa Barbara, CA) 1 points 6 days ago
we do need a new third party, a transnational party is a can of worms.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/corporate-oligarchy/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/thetruth-socialismcapitalismcommunismmarxism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-versus-corporatism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/no-war/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/help-me-understand/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-a-love-story/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/sociology/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/energy-101-solution/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ethics/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/break-your-left-right-conditioning/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/nader-kucinich-and-paul/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/5-facts-you-should-know-about-the-wealthiest-one-p/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/i-am-homeless-joe-jp-morgan-chase-accidentally-for/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/can-we-end-the-fed/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-end-the-federal-reserve-and-what-do-you-replac/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/where-are-we-and-how-do-we-move-forward/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/things-wall-st-did-were-not-illegal/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/teaching-the-occupation/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-forum-needs-structure/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-not-your-personal-billboard-for-your-politi/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/systems-theory-primer/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/organize-inform-take-action-effect-change/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/better-website-needed/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-playing-the-devils-games/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/nonviolence-the-only-path/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-not-against-capitalism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-is-not-about-political-stripe-it-is-about-bas/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/national-initiative-for-democracy/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-third-political-party-the-movement-of-the-middle/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/300-fema-camps/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-a-false-flag-operation/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-this-will-not-work/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/paradigm-shift-now/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-proposal-for-focus/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-the-bullshit-posts-and-get-organized/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/suggested-goals/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/god-invented-war-so-americans-could-learn-geograph/
Humans fight
they are the highest predator of nature
now they prey upon each other
You can't understand why someone fights when they don't want to, unless you have something to fight for and believe in. Tell me what you are for and believe in - it is easy to be against something.
I believe the human race can exist without wars
Restating the negative doesn't change it.
Could it all be a bad dream, or a nightmare? Is it my imagination, or have we lost our minds? It's surreal; it's just not believable. A grand absurdity; a great deception, a delusion of momentous proportions; based on preposterous notions; and on ideas whose time should never have come; simplicity grossly distorted and complicated; insanity passed off as logic; grandiose schemes built on falsehoods with the morality of Ponzi and Madoff; evil described as virtue; destruction and impoverishment in the name of humanitarianism; violence, the tool of change; preventive wars used as the road to peace; tolerance delivered by government guns; reactionary views in the guise of progress; an empire replacing the Republic; slavery sold as liberty; excellence and virtue traded for mediocracy; socialism to save capitalism; a government out of control, unrestrained by the Constitution, the rule of law, or morality; bickering over petty politics as we collapse into chaos; the philosophy that destroys us is not even defined. We have broken from reality--a psychotic Nation. Ignorance with a pretense of knowledge replacing wisdom. Money does not grow on trees, nor does prosperity come from a government printing press or escalating deficits. We're now in the midst of unlimited spending of the people's money, exorbitant taxation, deficits of trillions of dollars--spent on a failed welfare/warfare state; an epidemic of cronyism; unlimited supplies of paper money equated with wealth. A central bank that deliberately destroys the value of the currency in secrecy, without restraint, without nary a whimper. Yet, cheered on by the pseudo-capitalists of Wall Street, the military industrial complex, and Detroit. We police our world empire with troops on 700 bases and in 130 countries around the world. A dangerous war now spreads throughout the Middle East and Central Asia. Thousands of innocent people being killed, as we become known as the torturers of the 21st century. We assume that by keeping the already-known torture pictures from the public's eye, we will be remembered only as a generous and good people. If our enemies want to attack us only because we are free and rich, proof of torture would be irrelevant. The sad part of all this is that we have forgotten what made America great, good, and prosperous. We need to quickly refresh our memories and once again reinvigorate our love, understanding, and confidence in liberty. The status quo cannot be maintained, considering the current conditions. Violence and lost liberty will result without some revolutionary thinking. We must escape from the madness of crowds now gathering. The good news is the reversal is achievable through peaceful and intellectual means and, fortunately, the number of those who care are growing exponentially. Of course, it could all be a bad dream, a nightmare, and that I'm seriously mistaken, overreacting, and that my worries are unfounded. I hope so. But just in case, we ought to prepare ourselves for revolutionary changes in the not-too-distant future.
Slavery ended in all of europe without a war..... Not agreed that the war ended the great depression visit mises.org! War in the name of peace and tolerance by force!
people decided slavery was a bad idea with out being forced ?
If you really want to stop war. Ron Paul is the only one that really will stop the wars we are in right now and that is why the main stream media, wall street lobbyist don't want him in office. Only reason Obama could say that and not be ignored is because they knew he wouldn't really bring our troops home.
Originally Posted by steelcityblues
Anyone who still believes the establishment don't fear him, should take note that CBS only allocated him 90 secs to speak in a 1 hour debate.
What is worse, is that the others got plenty of time to put over there waterboarding fetish. It is up to ordinary GOP members to see through these fakes. Now or never.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056143614&page=19
Originally Posted by Tiocfaidh Armani
I was reading an article in an Irish paper recently that said all the candidates supported military action against Iran. Now something tells me Ron Lawl doesn’t and they probably never asked him. I never seen the debate, can anyone shed any light on that?
Ron Lawl is the ONLY poly-tic politician that isn't lying when his lips are moving. No other speaks so truthfully. And I'm not even a "Ron Lawl" Supporter or a supporter of government. I'm certainly not a conservative.
It helps the defense industry.
the defence industry could be building medical equipment
not true, if you own defense stock it has certainly produced for you over the course of the last few presidents
the government has been borrow money to subsidize those programs
humans are peaceful by nature
else civilization would not exist
The American revolution liberated a people from an oppressive tyrannical empire. The Civil War ended slavery. It is universally agreed that WWII ended the Great Depression. The Iraq War has created a fledgling democracy in the Middle East. The war in Afghanistan has re-installed a government interested in dialogue and solidarity with the international community.
/thread.
and just what business is of anybodies what type of government is in someone elses country? are you suggesting that we destroy evey country that doesnt want to be democratic? the people of iran did not ask for any of this.. but you assume you have to right to decide that for them?
What?
It never sounds well defending the destroying and ripping apart of the human body as if it really does make rational sense. It doesn't and never will, period! War is Irrational. Killing is wrong, always. In direct defense of oneself or loved ones, it's understandable but still horrible. As a rational being you enter into a irrational act.
a waste of a life and resource
At a cost of way too many lives. We have over stretched our jurisdiction here.
the Wars we wage have little do to with protecting out freedom
it's harder to control things far away without using greater force
It isn't jurisdiction. We aren't governing anyone, we're letting them have the freedom to choose their paths in life for themselves, an opportunity that most Iraqis and Afghanis never had under Hussein or the Taliban.
Are you fucking serious? The USA invade, kill and destroy other nations, while giving the people what they think they want. If you think americans are respected overseas, you need too get a passport and do some traveling.
I am serious, and if this country is so evil, why do you live here? Why don't you take your precious passport and move to Switzerland then?
Switzerland rocks.
it's that where one can get a private bank account
Wallstreet.com=oppressive tyrannical empire
I didn't know that Wall Street had a website...oh wait...it doesn't. Idk know what the .com was about in any event. But moving along with my counterpoint, if you think you're being oppressed by a tyrannical empire, you can just leave this country, you know. You can hop on a British Airways flight and never have to deal with the oh so evil middle class guys on Wall Street ever again! Brilliant, eh?
I am not happy with government military spending
You can go to hell
LOL umad?
Sane. Your 1960s mentality sucks, history does repeat itself, but we did end the Vietnam war
indeed
it is harder to conduct wars with so much awareness
global communication
No no...the Viet Cong and poor military organization/leadership/intelligence did that themselves, thank you. We would have lost anyway. Don't go tooting your horn yet.
eh
humans are irony general
history seems to be in lock step
Well no. The kind of war we fought in Vietnam and the one we fight now in Iraq/Afghanistan are very similar in terms of the types of engagements, tactics, and warfare, but the circumstances and outcomes have VASTLY improved in our favor. Top brass has spent the last 40 years learning what made us fail in Vietnam, and they're compelled to not make the same mistakes again.
You can view the Taliban as the NVA, as they were a legitimate, governing body in Afghanistan, and Al Qaeda as the Viet Cong, a more guerilla, underground, grassroots resistance force.
Hanoi was, from 1965 to 1975, a safe-haven for both the NVA and the Cong. The closest we came to Hanoi was by aerial bombings. However, in Afghanistan, we've dislodged and scattered the Taliban, and they lack a single safe-haven to coordinate effective resistance. While attacks do persist, they are nowhere near their original strength.
The VC and AQ have similar tactics. They attack targets of opportunity, avoid direct engagement, and have attempted to indoctrinate their youth to take up arms at a young age to increase their fighting numbers as rapidly as possible. However, we have had great success against these attacks in contrast with Vietnam. With more modern battlefield implements in place now such as UAVs, LAVs, and wiser infantry-level strategies, the dangers of attacks have been lessened, and our capability to immediately retaliate has increased.
While Al Qaeda remains an imminent threat, the key is to befriend the youth of Afghanistan/Iraq. There is no hope for the current generation. They are set in their ways, they see us as evil, and they will die before they surrender. With an outstretched hand that our military always seeks to provide, we can hopefully engender trust with the future leaders of these countries. That is where ultimate victory will lie. It's an opportunity we never had in Vietnam.
All those circumstances serve to prove my hypothesis that this war will not be another Vietnam. While we are fighting the same kind of war, we will not see the same result.
perhaps like Russia's failed invasion of Afghanistan
Do remember that we aided the Afghanis in the war.
as well as our arms sales companies
I must give you this, a reasonable response and analysis. I am easily affected by the myriad of responses on this #ows site. There is a rationale for OWS, sadly it may be lost. Just as the marches for peace lost the battle, they won the war, awakening the USA to the realities of Vietnam. This may occur with OWS, with the exception that any educated person knows how abusive and greedy the manner of the corporate world has become. The only hope is that corporate America will turn to a humaine manner.
I understand Backs make loans to country that can't pay them back
then move in and take their resources
that may require some strong arming
I believe the US was out of the Depression by the time WW 2 came around
I'm not normally this blunt but you believe incorrect.
I guess the US weapons companies may have been selling a lot of weapons during world war 2
The Lend-Lease Act started US wartime production before Pearl Harbor. It saw us making everything from munitions to other supplies and shipping them to aid Britain. Wartime production put practically every single citizen in America to work and, with a demand for as many weapons made as possible, work was constant and fast paced. That kind of economic atmosphere brought America to a stage in economic development where industry had solidified its foothold in America again. WWII was a bloody, costly, yet effective stimulus plan that actually worked, if you want to look at it that way.
europe was pounded into the ground
japan burned
Europe was pounded into the ground because of the nature of warfare at the time. There were no JDAMs or Javelins to put rounds and ordinance down chimneys with pinpoint accuracy back then. The only way to ensure the neutralization or elimination of your objective was to literally wipe it off the face of the Earth through massive carpet and fire bombings.
Japan didn't burn nearly as bad as it would have had we not used nukes. It's estimated that 2 million Americans would have died along with many millions of Japanese had the US invaded Japan's mainland. The Japanese started training schoolgirls as suicide bombers even. They were trained to lie under American tanks and detonate charges placed in their backpacks. It's comforting to know that the Manhattan project spared us and the Japanese all that would-be suffering.
I've heard propaganda on how enemy "warlords" hide behind children and hospitals
sounds like an excuse for tragic violent accidents of war
They trained schoolgirls as suicide bombers. They were just as much religious fanatics (if not moreso) than Al Qaeda and the Taliban. That's a known fact. Just ask any WWII vet what kamikazes were all about...seriously...
You weren't there so how can you dispute the accounts of those who lived through the nightmare?
I think most children deaths are result of being accidentally caught in a bomb's radius
Absolutely, one of the children that almost became a casualty of WWII was my grandmother who lived through the Nazi invasion of Greece and not only narrowly escaped rape by a Nazi soldier, but also nearly died from starvation. But all that is unrelated to the ways in which Japan was confirmed to be preparing for a mainland invasion.
It was just not an option to blockade the Japanese. They would take every opportunity to lash back and attack the Americans surrounding Japan, no matter how suicidal or pointless their attacks may be. They were ready to die by their allegiance to the emperor and their belief that they were all gods before they were ready to accept capitulation.
I understand the Japanese respect their ancestors
that would be a conservative tradition
i'm against corporate wars, but i gotta say this guy knows his stuff
no can say when Japan would ave surrender
or if surrender was even necessary
for control of the Pacific rim
was there any threat that the Japanese navy would bounce back
Matt. You need to do some serious research in order to comment better about ww2.
bollocks
give me facts then
Sorry, Its a large topic and i am not going to do your research for you. It up to you to be better informed when attempting factual discussion, as clearly by your comments, you are not.
You are correct..
Unemployment had fallen from 25% in 1932 to 14.6% in 1940 under the New Deal, falling every year but one - 1938, the year he tried to balance the budget - while, similarly:
"the economy grew 58% from 1932 to 1940 in 8 years of peacetime, and then grew 56% from 1940 to 1945 in 5 years of wartime."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt#Economic_environment
This idiot you're arguing with is nothing but propaganda and lies (as in below w/Iraq & WMD)..
The war was also a solid government (deficit) spending program that really kicked it into afterburner, but it wasn't necessary in the least. It was necessary morally, IMO. There are just wars, just most of them are not.
[Removed]
can an equation be presented
as I understand the index links unemployment to inflation
I heard
banks loan countries money until that country can not pay them back
and then seize their resources
thank you
the bombing of England and Pearl harbor was certainly wrong
People pay more attention to economic issues. War is a bigger issue though not immediately obvious. If we keep escalating tensions all over the world one day the fuse will go off. There will be no more systems to fix. There may only be 50% of th 99% alive. All it will take is one nuclear or major terrorist incident. WW3 will not be far off. At the rate we are alienating people, it is only a matter of time.
"Weird Al" Yankovic - Christmas At Ground Zero
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t039p6xqutU
cold war humor
war is used to take resources from other countries
We are not the world police. It is not for us to decide that Iraq needs democracy and attack it. Anyway that wasnt the reason for Iraq qar. The reason was WMD. What if china decides communism or something else is good for Iraq and attacked it?
they say the reason was oil
Hahaha I like it
We went into Iraq for the WMD's, which were destroyed in secret prior to the invasion. Like the goals of the Civil War, they changed halfway through and, through the outcome, created a worthwhile scenario that makes good of our mistakes there. We did not invade Iraq to police it. But in the process of removing a dictator from power, we liberated a people from what WAS an oppressive police state and absolute despotism.
Serious? You believe that? Africa is full of dictators, why not "help" there? U r full of shit.
Because the African dictators have never posed any sort of direct threat to the United States...
No country has posed a threat to the united states. At a touch of a button you could remove all human life from the planet. Don't give me that bullshit, America invades to further its own financial interests.
lately those corps have gone global the US doesn't even benefit from those financial interests
I major concern was that Iraq had used chemical weapons via gas on it's population of Kurds during the 80 s
oddly, Saddam Hussein was executed before the courts tried him for this
The US had send military advisers in Iraq helping Saddam at the time
How do you know they had WMD? Just because someone on faux news said so?
LOL that "faux news" joke is getting so old it's losing its basic comedic quality. Let me do the basic outline that I use for generic "no WMD" theories like yours.
Top military intelligence was accepted by both Democrats and Republicans as well as the people as being credible to the point where we believed Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction.
In addition to the intel relating to what we assessed his current stockpile to be, we had past experience to re-enforce our fears. Those experiences are in reference to Saddam Hussein's waging of biological warfare against the Iranians in the Iran-Iraq War as well as the genocides he initiated against the Kurds in the northern provinces.
Saddam Hussein had dismantled and disposed of his WMD stockpile after 9/11 out of fear of a U.S.-led invasion. However, it was common sense that he nonetheless had to maintain the appearance that he was still in possession of the weapons, out of fear that the Iranians may take advantage of the situation and re-initiate an offensive against Iraq, bolstered by the comfort in knowing that they would no longer need to confront biological munitions on the battlefield, the battle implement that played a key role in facilitating Iranian capitulation at the end of the war.
So no, I haven't been "brainwashed" by "right wing propaganda", even though the left controls almost every other news outlet along with the supermajority of the collegiate faculty in this country...
So if he dismantled and disposed of his weapons, why attack him? Also both democrats and republicans were misled. They have admitted it themselves. Either way it makes no sense. I have to get to work on a new name for fox news.
I think most of the politicians understood what was going on
Because he faked that he DID have them to prevent an Iranian invasion. My best guess as to his military strategy at the time was that he saw it as more profitable to fake possession of WMD's and risk a US invasion than demonstrate to the US that he did not possess them and be almost guaranteed an Iranian invasion.
And they were misled by bad intel, but that's most military intel for you. It's not exactly a product where there's quality control and standards. Intel is pretty much whatever govt. agencies can muck around and scrounge out of nothing through deep cover ops, surveillance, and links to critical intel through informants. All of the above have the potential to pan out incorrect data, and that's what happened in Iraq. Nonetheless, I think Iraq is better off now without Saddam, for better or worse. And hey, we're leaving Iraq completely by January now. So now that those who supported the war like me have had our way, now you get to have your way as well. We're going to be totally gone from the country by the start of next year.
I could never get the news straight about what the UN inspectors were saying
I felt the message may have been spun
Unbelievable. Still. Most Repubs and NeoCons have given this up and swear that we actually went for humanitarian/democracy reasons, and PROMISE that's what they said at the time too... At least you're consistent in holding the bullshit line.
Unbelievable. Everyone knew it was false except for those who had an interest in not knowing it. The CIA knew it, the UN knew it (until rods and yellowcake theories were manufactured and presented to convince them otherwise). Everyone knew it. Military intelligence... who demanded that the military blast past the CIA and produce that evidence, mostly from bullshit exile testimony? Cheney's office. http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB254/index.htm
yet the United States people were willing the believe the lie
maybe they wanted war for their weapons industry jobs
maybe they wanted war for the thrill
maybe they wanted to believe their government was honest
maybe they wanted revenge
good man. I get sick of all this anti-American bashing, as if every foreign policy move the United States makes is automatic blow back
Blow back is very rare and unpredictable(hence the term "blowback") which is why many policy makers move forward despite it
Blow back is not unpredictable, it, by definition is a direct consequence of a previous action. The world hates us because we invade sovereign nations at will, and kill more innocent civilians than any other nation.
It's also one of the biggest job producers
There just isn't a big enough job market because machines can perform tasks much more efficiently and at a cheaper cost. Machines and technology create abundance to the point that we no longer need human labor nor people in the service sector for that matter.
But in a monetary system, this means unemployment and high rates of poverty. So we need a system which distributes the necessities without the need for money and forced labor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxr51DrzdrE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDhSgCsD_x8&feature=related
the first video suggests alternative energy is already possible
It is, but the monetary system requires scarcity in order to maximize profits. It's supply and demand applied over a 'product lifecycle'.
Zeitgeist: Moving Forward (Planned Obsolescence): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTdseBKbWAE
So the durability, efficiency, and overall quality of these products are never produced as good as they could be.
Add corporations that demand profitability at any (ethical) cost, and they lobby for regulations, discredit their competition with pseudo science from front groups, and wage legal battles.
Of course this doesn't mean ethical groups don't exist that attempt to maximize the sustainability of their products. It's just an uphill battle in the current market.
"the war industry is to blow things up and then rebuild them"
The OWS crowd need not fear another war they won't fight and eventually become indifferent to.
the media care less about the troops than the did 2 years ago
the US WAR economy
.
.,
oh china for precious fire works,
lend a buck to me
for burst and busts and sky tumbling crust
and expanding canopies.
I encourage the idea of Ending the Wars abroad to be a priority for this movement because of the positive affects that action would have on this country. We currently spend 20%of our federal spending on defense. Next year the federal budget has set aside approx. 800 billion dollars for wars and defense. That is a huge amount of money even for the USA. That money could be better spend on the needy at home rather than on injuring and killing those abroad. Let's not forget whose money that is. That is our tax payer money and it should be spend as we would like to see it spent. I personally would not like to spend my money on violence against humans with no evidence to support the belief that they deserve this treatment. We are also hurting Our soldiers through all of this. Many have been injured or killed in combat, many are returning with PTSD and rape is occurring on both sides of the battle field. Let's support peace by bring our troops home and ending the unsubstantiated violence. Let's support the people in our homeland by bring our troops home to save money. Let's support OUR troops mental and physical health by bringing our troops home. End the wars America.
big businesses has been profiting off these wars such as Haliberton
to a point where war spending is bail out for rich companies as well
I don't understand aggression, personal aggression, the urge to hit someone, the urge to harm someone. I view wars, all wars as "bad boys with their toys". Earlier in my life I had conflict with not understanding wars, but I came to my own peace by this: "Why do we have wars? Because we are a warlike animal"
It's in our human nature to fight, so we do. We have an adversarial form of government. One of our freshman Congressman stated he is "going to Washington DC to wage war". I wish I could confront him..."...ah...wait a minute...are you saying your enemies are other Congresspeople elected by other Americans...?"
I don't pretend to have the solution for the world at war, but I really do think we can have a voted revolution that creates a cooperative form of government - this doesn't mean people won't still disagree, but it will give us a platform that creates "efficient and effective government FOR "We the People"
Peace. http://www.JeffBlock2012.com
I used to hit people is a child
if they got in my way
people say we go to war to maintain our life style of gasoline consumption
VERSE1
underneath the sea
your well may seem to be
like a blooming black plume belching smoke in the sky
though the smoke is rather thick
all the sea creature are sick
and don't eat the fish unless you're looking to die
.
CHORUS
drill deep offshore
an oiling we will go
we will go an oiling a spoiling away
blown high down low
the oil it will spill
for many a many a long long day
for many a many a long long day
.
VERSE2
some are quick to blame BP
but we give them our money
cause if you're stuck in a rut a car can help you get free
and when you're a rush
who wants to ride the bus
so let's raise a toast to the oil industry
,
VERSE3
the second largest proven reserve
everyone got what they deserved
and everyone knows that gasoline ain't free
and if you want some more
you'd best declare a war
and sell them a bit of selfish democracy
http://voltic.com/P/recordings/An_Oiling_We_Will_Go.wav
http://occupywallst.org/forum/corporations-profit-from-killing-america-and-they-/
We've had peace among the states for 150 years
Yet people here believe war is inevitable at least over seas
Occupy the White House and remind Obama that the the corporations haven't truly done away with democracy yet, he still needs our votes.
Remind him that we outnumber the Military Industrial Complex.
I'm still waiting for more than praise for the troops from Obama
Is it possible to get our trillions back from Halliburton, Blackwater, and all the other govt' subcontractors who simply asked L. Paul Bremmer for palettes of cash...which the US Treasury handed over without even asking for proof of services rendered? http://www.democracynow.org/2007/2/8/the_missing_billions_ex_iraq_occupation
Halliburton, Blackwater, terrify me
Nice how they took our money and moved their headquarters to Dubai, huh?
finance institutions have been international for sometime
Halliburton was a US-based company when they contracted with the govt to "provide services" in Iraq; they moved their headquarters to Dubai when it came time to pay taxes on their profits.
A US based company by paper
Paper location paid for by taxpayers in paper money...now pay us our paper taxes!
The wars in the Middle-East right now are sucking mega-bucks out of our economy. Yes, they are the source of much of this American economic woe. Stop sending so much money overseas by stopping the wars.....
yes
the money to conduct the war goes to private corporations
I agree with Ralph Nader: Our foreign policy should be based on spies, bribes and assassins.
no
then the citizen would fear the government
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeqnqkY1nds
Sunday, April 09, 2006
Why I Hate Republicans and I Can’t Stand Democrats The George W. Bush administration has said one thing while doing the complete opposite. Whether it was going to war in Iraq or a smaller federal government with lower taxes they have under minded the security of the people and nation. While very few people have gotten very wealthy off the military industrial complex the Neocons have created a state of perpetual war in the world. The Bush’s administration has served the military industrial complex and oil industry very well creating record-breaking profits.
The leaders of the National Democratic Party are no better for they too are in the pockets of the special interest groups in Washington DC. Senator Clinton is a good example where her pockets are filled with money from the Washington DC special interest groups. Where Hillary’s allegiance is more with the Democratic Party than the nation. The spineless leaders of the National Democratic Party have led this nation with little to no real conviction.
The leaders of both major national parties have been more concerned with preserving their position of power than what is best interest of the nation. Two American families having control of the White House for over twenty years with Hillary feeling entitled to run for President in 2008. This is a sad commentary to the healthiest of the American democracy. The foolishness of the national leaders of both parties is blundering our nations great wealth and resources. The manner that George W. Bush and the Clintons made their great wealth would make any American patriot sick to their stomach.
Yes, as an American patriot I am sick and tired of the lies fed to us by our government. How the Democrat and Republican leaders are more loyal to their party and pockets than the best interest of the nation. How the courts and jails are filled with common criminals (American prison population over two million people) with the biggest crooks leading the nation. http://globalcrier.blogspot.com/search?q=war+profits
it is interesting to note that the industry being served are the weapons factory
sort of a wolf among sheep scenario
I have to wonder if beyond numbers of who owes who what
the violent are running the game
It is the military industrial complex that rules over our government policies of war. http://globalcrier.blogspot.com/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-protest-idea-that-is-outside-the-box/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/extreme-political-right-verses-the-extreme-politic/#comment-76275
Israel moved in 34 years ago
are all those on occupied land expected to be displaced ?
I remember
the UN going in and out of Iraq to check for Weapon of Mass Destruction
and finding none
I remember the UN getting kicked out of Iraq and Saddam not letting them inspect. I also remember the US giving him a dead line to let inspectors back into the country and into the factories prior to any military action.
I remember the US lobbying the UN inspectors to go back each time they returned empty handed
I am glad you replied to my post. I could not find it again.
I looked it up and the statement about the UNSCOM being thrown out was not true and was propaganda. They (the administration) repeated it so much that even I believed it.
SEE, for the record, a Conservative CAN learn something!
conservatives are guardians of historical knowledge
intense, real, full of good points and thoughtful. A sick contrast of Bush, laughing and joking at one of many black-tie "death fund raiser events" of the missing weapons of mass destruction and how "they were gonna find 'em", and the young soldier trying to talk about his friends death.
I got a sense he found his situation meaningless
I have been reading interviews, listening to radio documentaries, and watching a few docs about soldiers in the Iraq/Afghanistan war, for a few years now and I tell ya, meaningless is just the tip. These people have seen and done things no human should ever have to, especially in this day and age where we know the consequences. And it is meaningless, all of these wars, but the result becomes very meaningful to those whose lives have been altered, changed irreversibly or destroyed by the absolute chaos war is and war creates.
So have I, and I'd really be curious what books you're reading and what documentaries you're watching
From what I can see, this generation of soldiers has been dubbed "The New Greatest Generation" and many attest to finding a greater purpose and sense of self fighting overseas.
Why? Because the war meant something to them. OF course not to you or the media pundits or the policy makers or the Wall Street bankers, all of you probably forgot that we were at war.
US soldiers are a well organized system that sees to the needs of a project not profit
Consider that they may be called upon for a legal military intervention IF congress refuses to call an Article 5 convention. The people will be able to show beyond any doubt that the government is unconstitutional and prove the chain of command, at some level, is usurping the constitution and laws made under it.----
Do you think defense of the constitution is an important enough project for them to seriously begin questioning the chain of command from the first level over them upwards?
Article 5 can be called by 2/3 of the congress or 2/3 of the state legislation to amend the constitution
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1181629,00.html
Try to get through David Fromkin's- A Peace to End All Peace-The Fall of the Ottoman Empire and the Creation of the Modern Middle East- and then get back to me. After that I suggest trying Stephen Kinzer's- All the Shah's Men-An American Coup and the Roots of Middle East Terror.
And because I have a feeling you are a brain-washed individual who gets your information from neo-conservative think tanks I have added a list of high-ranking national security and military personnel who opposed the war in Iraq-
On June 16, 2004 twenty seven former senior U.S. diplomats and military commanders called Diplomats and Military Commanders for Change issued a statement against the war.[21] The group included: William J. Crowe, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff under President Ronald Reagan Joseph Hoar, former Commander of U.S. forces in the Middle East H. Allen Holmes, former Assistant Secretary of Defense for Special Operations Donald McHenry, former Ambassador to the United Nations Merrill McPeak, former Air Force Chief of Staff Jack F. Matlock, Jr., a member of the National Security Council under Reagan and former Ambassador to the Soviet Union John Reinhardt, former Director of the United States Information Agency Ronald I. Spiers, Under Secretary General of the United Nations for Political Affairs and a former Ambassador Stansfield Turner, former Director of the Central Intelligence Agency Richard Clarke, former chief counter-terrorism adviser on the National Security Council for both the latter part of the Clinton Administration and early part of the George W. Bush Administration, criticized the Iraq war along similar lines in his 2004 book Against All Enemies and during his testimony before the 9/11 Commission. In addition to diverting funds from the fight against al-Qaeda, Clarke argued that the invasion of Iraq would actually bolster the efforts of Osama bin Laden and other Islamic radicals, who had long predicted that the U.S. planned to invade an oil-rich Middle Eastern country. Similar arguments were made in a May 2004 interview[22] and an August 2005 article by Lt. Gen. William Odom, former Director of the National Security Agency.[23] In April 2006, six prominent retired generals publicly criticized Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld's handling of the war, and called for his resignation.[24] The group included two generals who commanded troops in Iraq: Maj. Gen. Charles H. Swannack, Jr. (Ret.) and Maj. Gen. John Batiste (Ret.).[25] One of the generals, Lieut. Gen. Greg Newbold (Ret.), who served as the Pentagon's top operations officer during the months leading up to the invasion, also published an article that month in Time Magazine entitled "Why Iraq Was a Mistake."[26] On September 12, 2007, two retired U.S. Army generals, Lt. Gen. Robert Gard and Brig. Gen. John Johns, joined former Sen. Gary Hart in publishing a statement calling for withdrawal from Iraq. Robert Gard is the Senior Military Fellow at the Center for Arms Control and Non-Proliferation, John Johns is on the board of directors for the Council for a Livable World, and Gary Hart is the Council's chairman.[27] In October 2007, Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez, former commander of coalition forces in Iraq, called the 2007 "surge" a "flawed strategy", and suggested that the political leadership in the US would have been court martialed for their actions, had they been military personnel.[28] [edit]Opposition from soldiers There have been several individual refusals to ship (e.g., Pablo Paredes, and 1st Lt. Ehren Watada) or to carry out missions (e.g. 343rd Quartermasters).[29] Soon after the war began, 67% of surveyed US soldiers in Iraq told Stars and Stripes that the invasion was worthwhile, though half described their units' morale as "low."[30] A Zogby poll in March 2006 found that 72% of US soldiers in Iraq say the war should be ended within a year, and a quarter say that all troops should be withdrawn immediately.[31] Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW) was formed in 2004 to help antiwar soldiers network and seek solidarity from one another. IVAW held a Winter Soldier event, from March 13 through March 16, 2008, in which U.S. veterans spoke of their experiences during the Iraq War.[32][33] The Pacifica Radio network broadcast the proceedings live,[34] and streaming audio and video of the event is also available.[35] John Bonifaz filed a suit on behalf of 12 Congress members and various military families to try to stop the Iraq war.[citation needed] Using the example of GI resistance coffee housed during the Vietnam war some Iraq war veterans have founded anti-war coffeehouses near military bases to act as resources soldiers opposed the Iraq war. Two examples are Under the Hood Café near Fort Hood and Coffee Strong near Joint Base Lewis-McChord. [edit]
You should probably cite the Wikipedia page you got all of that information from. Calling people brainwashed and then jumping right to information that only supports your view with sources from left-leaning sites/authors doesn't help your cause either. Also, don't use the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan interchangeably and then only provide information against the War in Iraq from the anti-Iraq page on Wikipedia. If you're looking for documentaries, look up Restrepo and watch it and make your own opinion on the war when you see what the soldiers go through every day voluntarily. They don't care about this pro-war/anti-war bullshit anymore. They're tired of people like us debating what they want when their only real concern is ensuring the brother, father, son, or mother next to them goes home to see their family. The fact of the matter is we can't pull out of the AOR just like that. We as a nation are committed. It was easy in 2002 when most Americans were behind the soldiers, but now the war has decayed mostly because of this petty squabbling among people who haven't seen anything for themselves. We don't show any commitment to the men and women in uniform when we tell them to go do their job then want them to leave before it is done. For a really cheap comparison it's like telling a baker to make you a loaf of bread and then telling them to screw off when it's in the oven.
I came to this site to actually understand what this movement was about. I am interested in the politics involved and care about the opinions of people actually supporting the movement. Things do need to change. It shouldn't be turned into an anti-war propaganda machine though. There has been enough of that already Yes, war sucks and no one, not even soldiers want to use military force. However, the world isn't full of nice people so when we need to act we need to act. We should probably refrain from posting things like "these wars are meaningless.” After all, someone actually suffering in the sand and heat might think differently. That's my two cents and I apologize in advance if I pissed anyone off or just got way off topic with it.
it's not off topic
but it does seem to be a "walk in the soldiers shoe for a mile" argument
is the army in Iraq because the provisional government would collapse without them?
and if it did , is that because they don't have popular support?
thank you
coffee houses are good places for conversations
The Ground Truth, Soldier, Home Front, Breaking Rank by The National Film Board of Canada(I'm partial to this one), The Soldiers Heart on PBS Frontline are some docs to start off with.
yet the practice involves organizing and directing people en mass
Yes, Matt - totally agree.
Witness the warmongers clamoring for attacking yet another country. I hate to point this out, but only one candidate advocates for pulling out of all of the wars...
I heard the soldiers helped rebuild Iraq after the bombings. we could use their help in the united states
Yeah, no kidding. The ones there and in the other (how many?) 100's of bases we have in countries since WWII. What a waste of our money.
If you want to know why we're broke - this is a huge part of the puzzle.
I heard the USSR went broke trying to beat the US in an arms race
And you know the nickname for Afghanistan, right? The graveyard of empires. The mighty USSR had to call it quits there, too.
a British army was massacred in a mountain pass in 1842
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081222202100AAALz0a
No war under any circumstances? So if Iran acquires a nuke and hits Wall Street with it we should just sit back and take it? Should we have stayed out of WWII after Pearl Harbor was attacked?
How about no preemptive wars? I can get behind that as long as we have the will and power to squash the enemy should they attack us.
that's a hard argument
if someone is attacking, that attack needs to be stopped
the question becomes is there a non-violent way to do so?
well if one has the support of the public
the peaceful out number the violent
At this point it seems rather stupid to attack the "enemy" because then we become the enemy and so on and so on.... and by your logic Iraq should be able to blow the USA off of the face of the planet by now. Are we not at the point where we kinda get it that we are all on one frigging planet, that we have to share, and there are seriously flawed reasons for every war humanity has entered up until this point. Show me a just war with no innocent casualties, then we'll talk. Our wars will be the death of us. Unless we can make the evolutionary leap forward without war we are doomed, A hell of a lot of us get that an evolutionary leap forward will not happened for humanity without no war. Until we stop violence in all forms how does one expect to stop the monetary violence we are currently opposing in this occupy wall street action for instance? This idea that we need to be violent is total complete propaganda and tied heavily into the "hero making" mentality of dominant warring cultures throughout history. Time to focus on more important things don't ya think-things like the trillions, in multiple plurals, of dollars owed to China, Japan and some others in USA debt for, guess what??!!! War!! And what about the future costs to rehabilitate the P.T.S.S. soldiers coming back home???!!! These guys are messed up and have been on a never ending tour of duty, witnessing and doing things people should NEVER HAVE TO, for the last 8 years. Who's gonna pay for that? Instead of paying for healthcare or at the very least making sure that the guys who run the banks, pension plans, etc., are not fucking around-your government decides to start a war that costs the whole planet trillions in untold misfortunes. Somebody got rich and I suspect that the very same people that are and have been rolling in the money have something to do with disaster capitalism and possibly at least one of the fat cats has ties to Haliburton, he's maybe the biggest shareholder in fact. It's all tied together. Stop the madness. End violence in all forms, once, and for all!!
If the banks control the congress,
I would also concluded they are responsible for the government waging war
So, again I ask, if we are attacked we should just lay down and die? We don't defend ourselves? We let the enemy walk right in and do as they will? Bomb us into oblivion and not respond? I think it is rather stupid and naive to think that if we eliminate our ability and will to defend ourselves that it will deter the enemy from attacking.
obviously we should defend ourselves
Yes, it might be a good idea to step back and try to heal your wounds when attacked. To think about what has happened, why, and to look at the facts, rather than rush in with blazing guns. How about going after the people who actually had something to do with an attack on the USA for a start? As for eliminating the ability and will for the USA to defend itself in case of an attack? That was done by Bush, when he spent all the US funds on war, went against what the majority of American people wanted by engaging in the Iraq war and created a monumental quagmire of hatred for the US and their warmongering worldwide. We're done. We are beyond done. And if you think some Arab out there somewhere is your enemy, good luck to you.
no one trusted the election count that got bush in office
OK, I completely understand now. If attacked, just sit back and take it and encourage another attack.. Great plan.
I don't think anybody is suggesting nothing when attacked
one can't oppose war if it does nothing about it
I don't think bombing Iran back will accomplish anything except more destruction
So after they hit us once and we do nothing they will
a) run and hide and never bother us again b) Hit us again until we respond c) hit Israel or other allies in the region
I don't think that doing nothing is a wise strategy.
this is a "what if" scenario
ideally a peaceful world would move to stop the attacks
Look at all of the violence i the world today. It would be great to say "no more wars" but that won't make it so. There have been wars throughout all of history. So to wish they didn't exist is idealism, to be prepared to defend ourselves is reality.
we can defend ourselves through non-violent methods
Please explain how. Let's say, hypothetically, that there is a violent uprising in Pakistan and their nukes fall into the hands of a new government AND they decide to attack us. How will we defend ourselves non-violently? You mean if we all wish really hard, the second wave will be repelled?
I just don't understand how you repel a violent attach through non violent means other than to just absorb the blows.
The keyword is "defend". We have no pre-emptive right to attack other countries. Haven't you watched "Minority Report"? What happens to "innocence until proven guilty"? Where is the Weapon of Mass Destruction in Iraq?
WMD was just such a big farce.
I have no problems of defending ourselves. With our technology, we can easily blow up any nuke missiles right on top of China sky by other anti-missiles, if we choose to.
The real question that we should ask is why are we still in Iraq, when we cannot find any WMD in the first year? Go back and you will see that the arguments for staying keep changing. Think who is going to benefit for the war to continue.
I heard Mexicans are being held in the country without being identified or trialed
@MattLHolck: "if the nukes start flying no one will be safe"
I guess I shouldn't have expected an answer.
destruction is easier than creation
any human can kill any other human
Another non-reply.
no I am serious
it is so easy to kill each other (humans are soft)
that no one is safe in a state of war
if the nukes start flying no one will be safe
I saw several signs calling for the end of war and the Occupy San Diego march
Bombs are area effect attacks
everyone in the area is killed by bombs
destruction is simple stupid create a burst of energy
construction is much harder
.
it is ironic the US dropped bombs on Iraq trying stop weapons of mass destruction
it is ironic the anthrax threat most likely came from a US lab
We can unleash Weapons of Mass Creation :
If you can make pasta, you can boil milk solids. This resin can be made into http://www.reprapcentral.com/ & made more efficient with http://www.arduino.cc/ & some computer skills. (You can make plates, utensils, sandals & toys.) From this 3-D Printer, you can then make the parts for an aqua-culture fish farm basin & hydroponics vegetable, or sustainable food production. Then a water catch & filtration system, (ever have a pool, not much more complicated). A little wind & or solar tech to power it all, built into an http://www.earthship.org/ (which is a sustainable home made from reused/recycled materials) All we need are cows, silicon, fish, seeds, old tire yards, (i'll be honest, i don't know how solar works, but i can make electricity with magnets). The point is, Off the Grid, Sustainability, is possible & cheaper, because it's open-sourced. This is the backbone of a new civilization, one that doesn't need money, politics, corporations, religion, poverty or war. Imagine, what would this do for the welfare state? & how this kind of "Welfare-to-work" program, could get people off the dole, forever! We as a society, could then recreate our education systems, so that they focused, on early development of the Trivium & Quadrivium, before High School. Then, in high school, each child would be ready to create that which i described above. Imagine now, that each child, had the knowledge of creating & maintaining their own sustainable, off the grid home, before they went off to college?
The Truth does exist, & it is Knowable.
Anyone can own property virtual land
[Deleted]
endthewars
[Removed]
[Removed]
[Removed]
Everyone agrees that war is terrible, but sometimes it is unavoidable. Iraq and Afghanistan is a perfect example. We are now out of Iraq and need to get out of Afghanistan, but in the beginning it had to happen.
Wars are not meant to destroy peoples lives, Iraq/Afghanistan was meant to take town the Taliban and bring democracy to those God forsaken hell holes. The extremists cause all the problems! They are the ones that kill civilians for voting and helping Americans. The whole "blood for oil" is a bunch of bull. Also to stop terrorism. if you believe we should not have invaded Iraq/Afghanistan to bring the terrorists down then you are not an American!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
it is extreme to go to war to solve problems
want a second opinion
it is also lazy
If we could only figure out how to profit from rubble...
there's always mountain top mining
Beautifully said, Thank you!!!
welcome
New Rule: The DOD can not purchase anything from a for-profit corporation.
I prefer government spending for government workers
Please tell me what particular wars you mean.
touche'
various Wars have been discussed on this thread Iraq, Vietman, World War 2
Destruction isn't profitable? Ask Haliburton
Haliburton is paid by the US government
it's fucked up isn't it
emo music
Pink Floyd - The Gunner's Dream
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghFN1UFtQho
the violent serve themselves
www.activistpost.com/2010/08/10-signs-us-is-becoming-third-world.html
Watch video and then read article www.activistpost.com/2011/11/world-war-3-foregone-conclusion-video.html Read Zen Gardner's article here
It suggests that war only happens by our consensus
The government is so un constitutional that without using Article 5 this nonsense is going to continue. Demonstrations in states demanding that states apply to congress for an Article 5 convention is the only way there will be any effect. War cannot be stopped without this.------
All call to protest ANYTHING without Article 5 is wasting time, giving reason for the infiltrators of government and society (not constituionally minded people) opportunity to criticize protestors while exposing them to damages. It's burning the public out. Education into Article 5 is functional.----
A effort each evening to create a web conference to discuss Article 5 is beginning.--
http://www.articlevmeeting.info/
Comprehensive strategy.---
http://algoxy.com/ows/strategyofamerica.html
"Article Five of the United States Constitution describes the process whereby the Constitution may be altered. Altering the Constitution consists of proposing an amendment and subsequent ratification.
This convention can be assembled at the request of the legislatures of at least two-thirds of the several states. "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Five_of_the_United_States_Constitution
Yes, alter and abolish amendments. To change the status quo.------
A generation of Americans has been truly mislead in a very deep fashion IF this obvious route to permanently dealing with issues is not being discussed. It brings new meaning to socialism. Socialism now means that only part of your social group can bring worthy concepts, all others are enemies.
I would not want to see the bill of rights abolished
Nor I.----
I would reinforce the natural law that compelled the First Amendment and make it rule with truth.------
http://algoxy.com/poly/meaning_of_free_speech.html
I think the current first amendment is long enough
End time. The power brokers are finished, their greedy armament deals have been exposed. They and most government perpetuates war for their own self despotic greed. Let us end this today. It is time, the weak are strong, and the rich are weak and will be poor. This is as it is written.
the world population is slowly gaining world perception
"the world population is slowly gaining world perception" - ditto :-)
spero ...
awareness ;)
balance senses gravity
skin senses heat
the body senses pain
and the movement of it's feet
[Removed]
OK..then it's settled. no more war.
Now let's move on to the next OWS dopey subject with inane comments
Well at least you don't pretend to support the fight against greed and corruption. But that so far is your only healthy attribute.
Blade Runner VK Test on Leon
Terra-policy of truth
I got a job in physic working for the navy 2000-2002
I quit when the bombs started dropping on Iraq
American Soldiers Are WAKING UP!! SUPPORT OF TAKING AMERICA BACK!!! (StopTheRobbery2)
Listen to and SUPPORT those American Veterans that are now AWAKE and MAD AS HELL!!
And MattLHolck scurries to hide behind camo this time. Good luck with that...
In this episode, Max Keiser and Stacy Herbert discuss boom boom sticks and squeaky wheels and ask whether spending on the military is more libertarian than spending on teaching prostitutes to drink responsibly. And they envision a post leveraged buyout America in which we open up Fort Knox and find only a printer. In the second half of the show, Max Keiser talks to Karl Denninger of Market-Ticker.org and the Florida Libertarian Party about jack-booted statists in libertarian clothing.
Keiser Report: War, Whores & Welfare (E336)
Black Sabbath - War Pigs with lyrics - motion type typography
I'm having problems viewing the forums
does anyone else ?
http://occupywallst.org/forum/irs-official-pleads-the-fifth/#comment-973147
https://twitter.com/Matt_Holck
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." -