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Forum Post: IRS official pleads the fifth

Posted 1 year ago on May 21, 2013, 9:20 p.m. EST by mantis1 (28)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

So how is the Left going to lie and cover up this blatant violation of the constitution? Or do you care?

101 Comments

101 Comments


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[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22096) 1 year ago

This is a waste of taxpayer money. This is merely about a bunch of conservatives pissed off that they weren't given the same opportunity to cheat on their taxes as someone else. The joke is, once again, on the American people.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (1637) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

No, this was, and is, about the GOP hostage crisis. This is the minutia of RepubliCons canceling our Government until the clock runs out, any and every way they shamelessly can. With one petty peeve after fake atrocity after feigned violation at a miserably insignificant time. Don't fall for it you lame-ass dummies!

Jeezaaz!!

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22096) 1 year ago

You are right. These are some very sick people. The bigger problem is, though, that the Dems are not all that much better. Their hands are in the corporate pockets, as well, and so they are quite powerless in the face of the Reps, whose hands are in even deeper. They are all living in glass houses.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (1637) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

There is no equal hostage taking, false controversy, complete obedience to the 1% on the Dem side. It's just gotten so hopeless to deny GOP culpability, dishonest and/or misinformed folks are claiming false equivalencies. "Well, well, Dems are, too!" The ploy is just sad, pathetically sad.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22096) 1 year ago

Nope, not sad at all. Just true. If the Dems were so clean, so morally high, they'd be able to stand at the face of the Reps with meaningful arguments. But, it is way too easy for the Reps to point the finger right back at them.

Today, Obama has announced that he is going to limit drone attacks and begin the closure of Guantanomo again. There is always a chance for redemption.

[-] 0 points by WSmith (1637) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

I don't know what it is that you're missing. Did you just become politically aware in 2008? Have you been in a coma? Are you a liar? I think you are a newbie and very naive. You are lacking knowledge.

This site has loads of current info, is updated daily, and has links to the greatest radio broadcast available, you have homework to do: http://www.randirhodes.com/main.html

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22096) 1 year ago

You are a small minded, nasty person, but it's understandable given the brainwashing you've allowed to influence yourself. Quit making rude comments to people who disagree with you and try to open your mind.

[-] 0 points by WSmith (1637) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Just take my advice and learn something.

What the hell is wrong with this site?

[-] 1 points by mideast (506) 1 year ago

Who is more likely to insist that the IRS obey its EXCLUSVE rule? We know where I Sanders & I king stand How about the other Democrats & Tepublicans?


IRS Code 501(c)(4) provides for exemption of:
Civic leagues or organizations not organized for profit
but
operated exclusively for the promotion of social welfare.
and
local associations of employees, the membership of which is limited to the employees of a designated person or persons in a particular municipality and the net earnings of which are devoted exclusively to charitable, educational, or recreational purposes.


These statutory terms disclose that IRC 501(c)(4) embraces two general classifications: Social welfare organizations, and Local associations of employees.


Around 1950, the IRS changed the law.
Which was a completely illegal act.

The IRS manual on 501(c)(4)s was changed from
exclusively
to
primarily

Under the LAW, if a 501(c)(4) raises $10,000,000 anonymously, “exclusively” allows the 501(c)(4) to spend NOTHING on politics!

Under the MANUAL, if a 501(c)(4) raises $10,000,000 anonymously,
“primarily” allows the 501(c)(4) to spend $4,999,999 on politics!

WHICH IS AGAIST THE LAW!

[-] -1 points by eterna (-93) from Montauk, NY 1 year ago

you really have no understanding of what the irs did.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22096) 1 year ago

It was not right, what the IRS did, but is it right to hope for a chance to cheat on your taxes? There are many more, much more important things going on.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (1637) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

No, it was completely right. The dumbshit Cons asked to be questioned! This whole "conspiracy" was contrived by the CONS!

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22096) 1 year ago

I'm not going to argue with your reasoning. Clearly, anyone angry that they weren't allowed to cheat on their taxes has serious problems that run much deeper than the issues we are focusing on here.

[-] 2 points by WSmith (1637) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Is there something wrong with this site? It's fading in and out.

Your reply is confusing. The Crazy RW organizations were allowed tax exemptions ("to cheat on their taxes"). This whole nutbag witch hunt is about them requesting to be questioned, and the IRS complying with questions. But the IRS did not deny them anything. There is no "problem" here. This is all about the Cons creating a problem from nothing just to further hold the country hostage!

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22096) 1 year ago

Not sure who is confused.

(Reuters) - "An investigation of the Internal Revenue Service was launched on Friday after a senior IRS official publicly apologized for subjecting conservative political groups to "inappropriate" scrutiny."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/10/us-usa-politics-irs-idUSBRE9490S720130510

[-] -1 points by WSmith (1637) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

What do you think you are showing me when the media and the GOP are both owned and controlled by the 1% who are waging war on us, the 99%??

Dems have to play a game that you don't seem to get: They have to be covered by the media to be viable, but they can't say anything too damning or they won't be covered. Do you not get nuance, irony, paradox, grey area? It's a common malady of the newbie.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22096) 1 year ago

You are the oldie, with antiquated ideas and stuck in the reactionary past. Get over it. Open your mind.

[-] 0 points by WSmith (1637) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

So you're fine with 50 or 30% perception and understanding, as long as it doesn't harsh your high? Get real, you're clueless and hoping no one notices. Take my advice and learn something.

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

They dont like you. Get over it and move on.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (1637) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

"they" love you

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

No they dont.

There's a run on the markets this morning.

Central planning.

Keep endorsing the planners.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (1637) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

does misery want company?

what's going on with the site?

[-] 0 points by eterna (-93) from Montauk, NY 1 year ago

perhaps DHS ( big sis) or the IRS is monitoring it.

[-] -1 points by eterna (-93) from Montauk, NY 1 year ago

people that spoke out against the obama administration were targeted and groups that the adminstration doesnt like ( tea party, pro-life) were pruposely delayed from getting 501 c3 and 501c4 status . it was never about tax evasion.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22096) 1 year ago

Targeted for what, though? To not be given an equal chance to evade taxes?

[-] 0 points by eterna (-93) from Montauk, NY 1 year ago

targeted for having tea party ( or constitution) in their names.non conservative groups did not have their applications for a 501c4 or 501c3 held up . the tea party groups were not looking to evade taxes, they were following the laws.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

beware the government could target you

which is just a short term for punishing threats

I government should not rule through threat of punishment

a government should not punish its people

[-] 0 points by eterna (-93) from Montauk, NY 1 year ago

tell that to the obama adminstration,....................they rule through intimidation.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

just like the bush administration

we're deer in the headlights

[-] 1 points by eterna (-93) from Montauk, NY 1 year ago

did the bush adminstration ever target private citizens or members of the press using the irs?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

they used national security

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22096) 1 year ago

It was wrong, I agree, but we have much bigger issues to worry about it. And, if you're going to whine and cry about paying taxes and then apply for a 501c4/3 you might expect a little scrutiny.

[-] 0 points by eterna (-93) from Montauk, NY 1 year ago

they were not whining, they were questioning. for some of the organizations its been 3 years and still no reply from the irs.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

what were those questions ?

[-] 1 points by eterna (-93) from Montauk, NY 1 year ago

1provide copies of all current web pagesincluding blog posts an all copies of newsletters and flyers.2are you on face book? provide copies of pages.3 provide minutes of your meetings and what was discussed . 4 do you encourage eligible voters to educate themselves and to vote? 5.have directly or indirectly communicated with members of legislative bodies, if so provide copies of all forms of communcations. 6. list each past and present officers and members of their families. 6. is anyone planing to run for any elective office? 7, if you pray, what do pray about?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

1 provide copies of all current web pagesincluding blog posts an all copies of newsletters and flyers.

2 are you on face book? provide copies of pages.

3 provide minutes of your meetings and what was discussed .

4 do you encourage eligible voters to educate themselves and to vote?

5.have directly or indirectly communicated with members of legislative bodies, if so provide copies of all forms of communications.

  1. list each past and present officers and members of their families.

  2. is anyone planing to run for any elective office?

7, if you pray, what do pray about?

[-] 3 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

The fifth amendment is an amendment to the CONSTITUTION
and is always available - obviously ignorance is an excuse

FYI- she did this because the chairman if the committee ( who has been indicted & convicted ) accused her of committing a crime, the FBI is investigating her, and ANY lawyer would tell her to do this
[ and her lawyer did ]

[-] -1 points by eterna (-93) from Montauk, NY 1 year ago

her lawyer should have told her that by making an opening statement she was negating her right to the 5th.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

it's all for show

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

she will NOT testify
she could be held in contempt but that will require a vote of the entire house
even today's teapublicans are not that crazy

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

Philip Bump 4:57 PM ET

Darrell Issa would like a do-over. The Chairman of the House Oversight Committee, no doubt motivated in part by outrage over his allowing the IRS's Lois Lerner to invoke her Fifth Amendment right during a hearing Wednesday, plans to demand she return to complete her testimony. His argument: Lerner waived her ability to claim that right once she offered an opening statement. Is he right?

Probably not. "It's a very weak claim, bordering on frivolous," said defense attorney Jonathan Marks of New York when we spoke by phone this afternoon.
Marks, who was a federal prosecutor for four years before entering private practice, was highly skeptical that Issa's legal interpretation was valid.

The Fifth Amendment is meant to ensure that a criminal suspect can't be forced to offer evidence against himself. When you take advantage of your right to remain silent when questioned by police, you're taking advantage of that stipulation in the Bill of Rights. When witnesses do it at Congressional hearings, they're doing the same thing: refusing to provide any information that might some day make its way into a criminal trial.

But that right isn't sacrosanct. Before we get into why, it's worth looking at what happened today.

C-SPAN has a video showing today's hearing, but the key moment was this. Issa asks if she'd like to offer an opening statement, and Lerner does so.

During that statement, Lerner introduces herself and describes her background and current position. She outlines how the investigation came about. She then explains that she has done nothing wrong and that she is invoking her Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination.

Issa then asked her to authenticate that a series of questions submitted to the Inspector General came from her (as in the photo at top). She did so. Issa then claimed that the assertions in her opening statement and in verifying the questionnaire served as a waiver of the right. Lerner asserted her right, and Issa excused her.

[-] 0 points by eterna (-93) from Montauk, NY 1 year ago

she will be recalled.

[-] 0 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

and she will claim her fifth amendment rights

[-] -1 points by eterna (-93) from Montauk, NY 1 year ago

she gave up the 5th when she made an opening statement. and then claimed the 5th. in todays news, issa is recalling her for that reason.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

And what will Issa do if she takes the fifth?

[-] 0 points by eterna (-93) from Montauk, NY 1 year ago

she already gave her right to the 5th.

[-] -1 points by JackPulliam3rd (205) 1 year ago

Hopefully he'll ask her why an innocent person would take the 5th

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

99/100 lawyers - including hers - specifically told her to.
do you know what they call people who ignore expert advice?

[-] 0 points by JackPulliam3rd (205) 1 year ago

Guilty of a crime?

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

what CRIME could she be guilty of?
Is it a federal law or state law

[-] -1 points by JackPulliam3rd (205) 1 year ago

We'll find out. Probably whatever one her testimony would have incriminated her for.

I have to ask, why on earth are you defending this is any way? Are you that much of a party member? No matter what the issue or situation is, you come at it with the already formed conclusion of "D's good, R's bad" then work your way back and try to find ways to support that conclusion. There really should be only one reaction to this and that is outrage at the actions of the IRS.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

maybe I'm a member of the party of the IRS commissioner in place when the tp profiling happened.
maybe I always defend the use of the fifth amendment.


definitely, I object to the diversion to the tp issue

here is the real issue: THE REAL LAW THAT WAS BROKEN

IRS Code 501(c)(4) provides for exemption of:
Civic leagues or organizations not organized for profit
but
operated exclusively for the promotion of social welfare.
and
local associations of employees, the membership of which is limited to the employees of a designated person or persons in a particular municipality and the net earnings of which are devoted exclusively to charitable, educational, or recreational purposes.


These statutory terms disclose that IRC 501(c)(4) embraces two general classifications:
Social welfare organizations, and Local associations of employees.


Around 1950, the IRS "changed" the law.
Which was a completely illegal act.

The IRS manual on 501(c)(4)s was changed from
exclusively
to
primarily

Under the LAW, if a 501(c)(4) raises $10,000,000 anonymously, “exclusively” allows the 501(c)(4) to spend NOTHING on politics!

Under the MANUAL, if a 501(c)(4) raises $10,000,000 anonymously,
“primarily” allows the 501(c)(4) to spend $4,999,999 on politics!

WHICH IS AGAIST THE LAW !

So, would you convict every IRS agent in this office, who, since 1960, let political action groups break the "exclusive" law ?

[-] -1 points by JackPulliam3rd (205) 1 year ago

No maybes about it. Shulman's a D supporter and contributer. You're a supporter at least. Not many $ contributers on this site that I've noticed.

And I'm not worried about every agent since 1960, just the current ones misbehaving now. Should be interesting to see how all the Lerner drama plays out. Maybe she'll get pissed off at the whole asked to resign, placed on leave thing and not only waive the 5th, but also name names. Maybe every current IRS agent, be they D or R, who overstepped will pay. Surely that sounds good to you.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

How do you know the bush appointee is a D contributor?

IMHO - I do not think IRS agents who are doing what they are told to do - as stated in the manual "primarily" in stead of following the law "exclusively" should be punished - but EVERY 501c4 should be reviewed to see if they violated the law by tax free political spending.
Dont "profile" by "party"
start at the list of 501c4 with the BIGGEST spenders and remove their 501c4 status if they broke the law - SIMPLE

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

surely with so many laws

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

VA GOP Lt. Governor Nominee E.W. Jackson: Homosexuality Is 'Poison,' Democrats Are Slave Masters & Obama Is a Secret Muslim Submitted by Brian Tashman on Monday, 5/20/2013 11:05 am

With the ultraconservative Ken Cuccinelli as their candidate for governor, it only makes sense that Virginia Republican delegates picked far-right pastor and failed U.S. Senate candidate E. W. Jackson as their nominee for Lt. Governor.

Jackson is running on a “message to inspire and unite Virginia,” which apparently includes uniting Virginians around bigotry towards gays and lesbians, comparing Democrats to slave masters and the Antichrist and warning that President Obama is a secret Muslim.

Jackson on gays and lesbians: http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/virginia-gop-lt-governor-nominee-ew-jacksons-long-history-attacking-gays-berating-democrats

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

I've said it before, and I'll say it again,
its not the crazy leaders like jackson or david duke or father coughlin or pat robertson or ted cruz or michelle bachmann or wayne lapierre -

the only thing we have to fear is the 100,000,000+ lemmings who follow them

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

the news told me france is having anti-gay marriage demonstrations

I have too wonder how large a protest and who decided these were worth covering

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

There is no need to wonder. Just like there is no need to wonder about the cockroach problem.

We are done.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

yeah,

but eventually people will want a government with them in mind

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Isn't that what this is about? Tantrum throwing to protect the right wing shills?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

ends up protecting every congress member

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

She's a Bush appointee, and I don't for an instant believe in coincidence.

They should throw them all out on GP.

[-] 1 points by Narley (295) 1 year ago

Whether we like it or not, there are still a lot of places in this country where his message will get votes. But I don’t think Virginia is one of them.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

I'm sure it makes you skippy.

[-] 1 points by Narley (295) 1 year ago

Skippy. Don't know what that means. I'm actually indifferent. This guy will not be taken seriously. But he will have some followers.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

http://www.salon.com/2013/05/20/deep_thoughts_with_virginias_new_lg_candidate/

Ya, nobody but the Tea Tolers and the Glen Beck lovers.

[-] 1 points by Narley (295) 1 year ago

Wow, That was an entertaining and sobering article. I wonder what his thoughts are on the KKK?

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Apparently he's ok with them providing they don't wear a sheet.

[-] 1 points by Narley (295) 1 year ago

Ha!, You’re probably right. Do they still wear sheets? I live in Klan country. Haven’t seen a sheet in over 30 years. Now you have to look for the confederate battle flag bumper sticker to identify them.

Good Night. I need my beauty sleep.

[-] -1 points by WSmith (1637) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago
[-] -2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

left right politics are a side show attraction that takes advantage of our prejudices

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

One would think that you would take that up with the Tea Tolers, no?

Otherwise, you can save it.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

no controversy unless we give them attention

the system of separation divide and concur

depends on us rooting for or against teams

the two parties are lovers and play into each others hands

putting on this show of animosity

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Cut the shit.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

exactly

congress should be solving problems

not playing hide and accuse

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Why don't you save time and let Big Daddy Cockroach out?

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

I don't get the reference

but I could not give 2 shits about who confessed and who resigned

Mainstream media is a fucking joke

[-] 1 points by eterna (-93) from Montauk, NY 1 year ago

the guy that resigned was slated to leave his post in the beginning of june anyway. his "resignation "was all for show.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

it's the CIA shuffle all over again

the IRS resigner needs to throw in a sex scandal

the public loves sex

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

I think you get it all too well.

I no longer give a fuck what you think.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

not if those thought do not address real issues

the suggested by this side show brought to us by stooges in the IRS and congress and news reporting agencies

does not address real issues of the people

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

I no longer give a fuck what you think.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

did you before ?

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Yes, I did.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

are there still cyber attacks here?

i guess everyone needs a job

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Is that what we are calling it today? Looks like a big ass chickenshit.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

I can't get to the forums

are you having trouble ?

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Yep.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

thanks

there's no need for finalities

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

that wouldn't make much sense when they could shut the site down

is location new york?

perhaps it's a routing problem

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

It's a cockroach problem.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

you suspect the administrator ?

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

I do not.

[-] -1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

what's a cockroach problem.?

is the site infested with too many calls ?

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Click on bubbling, not forum.

We're done, Matt.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (1637) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

The Issa hearings are McCarthy incarnate. They (anyone Issa interrogates) should stand up and tell Issa and his clutch of RepubliCon Cultists to Go Fuck Themselves! As we look back and wish Bill Clinton did during his Witch Hunt!! "Go Fuck yourselves Connies!!"

The Real Crime here is that NONE of the obviously Crazy RW political organizations that had to answer questions to get Tax Exemption were denied. None. They should have been prosecuted for fraud and tax evasion!! Maybe now they will be!! Let's hope Justice Prevails!!

[-] -1 points by eterna (-93) from Montauk, NY 1 year ago

some of the groups waiting to be approved have been waiting for 3 years, non approval is the same as denial. and they had to answer long questionaires in order to submit their applications. please be specific about any of the groups that you think should be prosecuted for fraud and tax evasion ? by the way, obama staffers ( all dems ) owe over $800,000 in back taxes,.............they havent paid them.should they be prosecuted?

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

In The US, what do mean ''the Left'' ?!!! What 'left' ?!! NOT AS rabid, reactionary, right-wing, you mean ?!

verum ex absurdo ...

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

if the tax system is broken so it must target check up

(randomly or otherwise) to instill enforcement;

than that is not a reasonable system

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

They will do it the same way the right does it, they use the same playbook you idiot.

What do you think, that half the humans on the planet respond one way and the other half respond another way?