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Posted 11 years ago on Oct. 6, 2011, 10 p.m. EST by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Stop Playing the Devils Games (or, OCCUPY your INTELLECT)

to Whom it may concern;

I have spent the last 20 years of my life trying to save the humans.

This is not an idle game nor a past time and this is not a paranoid delusional trip.

This is the simple fact. I have understood what happens and forseen it, modelled it, simulated it, I have created mental simulations of your civilization, tested them, and seen the outcomes. I can do that. I am an aspie, I have aspergers Syndrome. And 20 phds worth of autodidactic knowledge, including simulation mechanics.

Your civilization is now at a cross roads. It may choose more or less here and now the path to evolution, prosperity, egalitarian democracy, and a wide open future; OR it may choose the path of action and reaction inside of social entropy and stew itself stupid and wreckless until finally the assorted problems we have created for ourselves truly start to bite back.

There are 20 different doomsday clocks ticking any one of which is another problem which this civilization has created for itself and which in essence kills off humanity as humans displace the assorted balances of natural order.

These are not my fantasies, this is not an ego trip, I speak as a sciesntist armed with the Esoteric Facts of 20 Different Science Disciplines. If you doubt this I leave it incumbent upon you to test me here and now with actual questions to that expertise. Any ad homs to the effect that its not true are even more irresponsible than any would be liar or lie regarding ones knowledge base. IF you have not been paying attention to me on FB, working for Scott Keller or TZM or TVP or RBEF and in each case coming up against the inevitable truth of their stuckness due to their actual entrapment in assorted mental cages...If you have not seen me demonstrating every day most days that What I say about myself is true; living live and transparent on the net...Then you may of course take this opposrtunity and ask the questions you would ask an expert and we will see how well i Do.

I'm not interested in the rankles that are raised or the inevitable trolling which occurs out of the assorted many people whos evil propaganda agendas this destroys. I'm not interested in fighting, bickering or arguing and I am not interested in any further discussion or exploration of me aside from the simple point that I know what i am talking about and for the most part the rest of you are an ignorant mob of opinionated but duped matrix denizens.

I'm only interested in the simple acceptance of the truth and our mutual right actions which we must take together- unless you prefer the inevitable alternative that every human on this planet dies.

You see as any organism evolves and grows and runs into its own ecosystem there are ecological and systemic limits to that growth. Some of those limits are absolutes in that they are linked to natural resources but some of them strangely enough are absolutes linked directly to the system dynamics themselves.

It does not require an ecological disaster to kill off the humans. They can do that to themselves without one. They are certainly designing and implementing and perpetuating assorted pressures to create for themselves a dozen different ecological armageddons, we might list the first few as mere "energy" resources which are insane, stupid, evil, costly, and pointless to explore, starting with oil, gas, nuclear power, biofuels, propane, and assorted forms of "free energy" which only turn out to be sucking energy off of the earths magnetic field.

No, it does not take addiction to stupid and evil and corrupt and costly forms of energy to kill humans off. But any of those could do it. The toxins which are created by propane while being far less numerous are also far more harmful and exotic. Every nuclear power station ever built is some kind of ticking time bomb. And coal and oil both will bring global warming, oceanic acidification, acid rain, and ecological armageddon 10 different ways. But all of this is not really as fundamental as the problem of your economic system.

You can branch that problem and talk about your political system, but your economics have in truth taken over your politics, and just as citibank secretly pointed out, the USA is a plutonomy, a plutocratic hierarchy of the rich elites; a political system inherently based in political corruption, using orwellian fraud democracy and orwellian fraud capitalism. "Capitalism" BTW, to the anti capitalist set, is not that bad of an idea. Its too bad its never been tried, and double too bad that its time in evolutionary order was taken up by something else so now we are forced to skip it. Capitalism would have been a fine idea back in 1800, its too bad the elites of the time were too greedy and evil and corrupt to allow that to happen.



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[-] 1 points by mgiddin1 (1057) from Linthicum, MD 10 years ago

My question after reading this manifesto, which is what I'd call it - is - why impose an egalitarian democracy?
Egalitarian is a loaded term which, to me, means that we are going to dole out the same amount of resources to everyone.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 years ago

the trickiest part of change is the transition

if I would try to define conservative.

I might guess preserving the current culture

[after all, Rome was not built in a day (cliche) ]

our society prospers because of the traditions we follow from those before us

in this muse

liberal would mean changing tradition

[-] 1 points by mgiddin1 (1057) from Linthicum, MD 10 years ago

To paraphrase something I've expressed elsewhere on this forum - Call me cynical but I do not think the existing system works on any level. I feel it must be taken down. I do not have faith in the government at all. Sometimes it is difficult to be optimistic about the future, because I also follow international financial news very closely and I can see the global Greatest Depression that we are standing on the precipice of. However - on the spiritual side of things, the Mayan/Hopi prophecies notwithstanding, I have read about sacred geometry and consciousness as well (e.g., Eckart Tolle, the Quadrivium, etc.). These studies have led me to believe that we are in a period of great transition to higher consciousness. If we do not evolve, we will destroy ourselves and our planet. Einstein said, "We cannot solve problems on the same level that we created them".
Ideally, I envision a world in which we are reconnected with each other and we become good stewards of the Earth. However - I truly believe this will happen on a local/small scale. If we could transform every lawn in America to food, then we would not have a hunger problem. If we could have LOCAL currencies, local organization, barter, trading of skills/goods made by the people. If people had the true opportunity of keeping the fruits of their labor, then we could see some real innovative solutions in technology in terms of cleaning up our environment and real energy solutions - the knowledge of some of which I do believe is currently being suppressed by powerful interests and government. I strongly believe a large, powerful, far away government will only ultimately be corrupted to evil ends.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 10 years ago

thats not what egalitarian means. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/egalitarian equality means equal opportunity, not doling things out. We need a free market system and democracy, not socialism. egalitarian simply means just and fair and compassionate, it does not mean suckered or duped or letting people free load. Egalitarian just means just and fair, and that has limits on the other end which is that everyone must deal with meaningful social consequences for their own choices.

[-] 1 points by mgiddin1 (1057) from Linthicum, MD 10 years ago

Equal opportunity is far better than equal distribution of resources.

What do you think about this quote: "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." attributed to Ben Franklin (but origin somewhat controversial).

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 years ago

Ben pulled from many sources and people

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 10 years ago

i agree equal opportunity is what its all about. thats a funny quote, but thats not democracy, thats ochliocracy or mob rule.

real democracy protects the lamb.

[-] 1 points by FromSiriusB (2) from Durango, CO 11 years ago

Um, folks s/he's right. Gawd is pretty darn accurate about the current state of affairs.

So, thank you GAWD for taking the words out of my own head and writing them down to share with everyone.

Oh, and if you want to argue that we are non-human, um, well, our SOULs did not originate from Earth, but from HIGHER DIMENSIONS OF CONSCIOUSNESS and we volunteered to be embodied as humans to help Divine Justice uphold the universal law of Free Will. Gaia and Humans sent out a collective message for 'HELP' because the Oligarchy was preventing your/our Own Evolution... and here we are. There are millions of us on the planet. We love you all.

The history is accurate. As for what to do about these issues, well, There is something else going on here folks, and it's so big, we're about to going into uncharted cosmic waters.... No one knows how this game is going to unfold... it's open season ;o)

[-] 1 points by FUCKTHENWO (280) from RIVERDALE, MD 11 years ago

aint that the truf'

[-] 1 points by geezer (3) 11 years ago

the main problem is politicians that are bought by business. www.buddyrohmer.com is a diffrent approach

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

can't be found link.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

Similarly, the drones of the matrix whine on about and against socialism and communism. Two very exact political theoretical systems which HAVE NEVER EXISTED. In each case, some patent elite money centered oligarchy PRETENDS to have a political system while in fact running that political system as a MERE CON SCAM designed to MAINTAIN THE PEASANT CASTE.

There has NEVER been a "Democracy". Not once on this planet. There has NEVER been "Socialism". There has NEVER been "Communism". There has NEVER been "Capitalism." But you all argue as if these things have not only existed but provide concrete examples of cause and effect inside of social and poltical systems. Nothing could be further from the truth."Socialism" and "Communism" are being used as mere ideological PROPS, to which is pinned the assorted angst which republicanism inverts against "government" in order for the elites to point the finger at government and thus distract from themselves as the actual culprit. The Point of the smoke and mirrors is to say" Communism " or "Socialism" is bad, and then to say that doesn't work, and then to claim that what somebody proposes as a solution is "Communist" or "Socialist". Meanwhile, whats really going on is corporate oligarchy, and the only way that can be turned into a genuine democracy is to balance against corporate powers and empower government to force corporations to be fair and moral and ethical instead of allowing them to be evil.

And we should really make the point. Because just like all of the evil scum sucking bottom feeding pigs that we can now continuously reality test to PROVE they are evil and etc... Corporations are by their inherent nature EVIL entities. They are mass consuming reptile godxillas. They are the ultimate evil negative social entity. They via market and economic forces alone will always become absolutely sociopathic; will always turn human beings into commodities, will always lie and steal and cheat and even kill people to make that buck. But there is a curious and important truth about such things which is quite a bit like keeping a crocodile as a pet in the yard. It has no conscience. It is an evil reptile and it has no warmth, no love, no compassion, no capacity for higher reasoning. It does not care unless you are to eat. And that does not seem like a very useful or meaningful yard pet unless this is a dynamic permaculture system and we are in fact using that croc to scare other animals like a living scare crow and keep certain populations stable. Suddenly then your croc becomes a dynamic and neccessary creature in a functioning ecology. Similarly, you can't get away from corporations, because thats how technology is implemented. What you can do is design a lucid ecology and USE and CONTROL the nature of that beast so that there aren't assorted toe jam innocent victims everywhere it steps.

Similarly, police are not evil because of what they do just to protesters. They are evil because thats what they will do live on film, and thats not half as bad as what they do every day someplace else otherwise. The only thing that is changing is we are forcing them to show that their only power is control and violence, the only thing that is changing is we are reality testing the question of their service. If they were public servants 400+ people running wall street would be in jail right now, and the Citizens would have arrested the guilty. Instead, we are now given a transparent window into the actual truth. The police are merely servants and guards in a giant prison of make believe civil rights you don't really have. Their job is actually to maintain the peasant caste, to control it and discipline it for the elites. They have no moral authority, just violence and implied violence and threats. They do not operate according to laws; they operate above their own laws. If ONE police officer is assaulted it will make the news as a violent evil protest. But if hundreds of protesters are violently assaulted and then denied medical attention; thats business as usual. Nothing to see here.

Police don't run around keeping criminals in check. They run around victimizing the general public, mostly in random acts of brutal and evil aggression. They are not competent enough to catch killers and theives. But they can railroad a defenseless homeless person and keep such a non criminal locked up indefinitely- BECAUSE WE THE PEOPLE KEEP LETTING THEM DO THAT. Ask Yourself the question what percentage of people incarcerated are actually guilty of some crime which makes them a threat to society? The fraction is surprisingly low. Depending on some minor variatons, generally between 10 and 30 percent. MOST of the people EVER LOCKED UP were in fact VICTIMS of the CORRUPT AND EVIL AND CRIMINAL INJUSTICE SYSTEM.

Which means that the NET karma of being a police officer is by FAR into the red. The police HARM society FAR MORE than they do any good for it.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

Systemically, police are at their very nature a symptom of unresolved social problems. An Evolved Egalitarian society has no need for police officers and a very small need for social workers. Having ANY police at all is indicative of some kind of dynamic social inequality or injustice which some segment of the population will resist. A just and egalitarian society which puts the people first will have the people inside and within it psychologically motivated to put society first. In a giant con scam peasant caste war, it makes moral and ethical sense to rob, to steal, to cheat, because thats THE GAME that the top is playing on everyone else, its only a matter of making it to the upper circle of untouchables- in what in essence amounts to a three tier legal system in which the ultra rich are above reproach and get away literally with genocide.

These problems take on assorted other dimensions. Education. Your educational system is actually a prole programming system devoid of intellectual nutrition and designed to intellectually castrate. The Techniques used by the educational system are 200 years old obsolete, but the republicans want to talk about education reform in terms of how to whip and beat and pay or not pay teachers or whether or not to open up your kids to direct corporate oversight by privatizing education. Republicanism is hyper dependent upon mass ignorance, and the positions of Republicans regarding everything are hyper ignorant but this is particularly true of education itself. Education reform does not have anything to do with how we pay teachers, it has to do with how we teach kids.

These problems take on media dimensions, in that whats actually going on is that 99 percent of the population is stuck fast inside of a matrix of ideologies stacked into and against each other in a giant divide and conquer swindle. Your supposed to care so much about ideology X or Y or Z that you will fight for it to the death as a team sport. all of your social and vital and organizational energy is thus wasted, as pwns on a giant hyperdimensional ideology chess board, and everyone is lying to everyone else but only the elites and media control freaks at the top actually are conscious of lying. The Republican dupes sublimate it. They lie, they subliminally know that everything they stand for is a lie; but their ego attachments and personal investments and ideation that the OUTCOME is what is important and that THOSE ENDS justify THOSE MEANS allows them to lie to themselves and everyone else about pretty much everything.

In a sane society its illegal for media outlets to lie. Fox News Just won a judgment in which its own Argument was that its first amendment rights entitle it to lie to the public.

But these problems ultimately take on social dimensions, in that as you all start to think to resist- you go running to obrien of the thought police for help.

You go to the anarchists, not the scientists for how to have a social revolution. You don't run on the fuel of knowledge, you run on the fuel of pomp and egotism and class rage. You go to the anti capitalists, not the scientists for how to solve the capitalism problem. You don't run on the fuel of knowledge, you run on pop idiocy lies which are popular with 10 percent of the population. As such groups form, they don't form egalitarian open source think tanks. They form pack psychology and herd mentality driven pop hierarchies, which ultimately attempt to just join the game of the great con scam chess game as a new color player; rather than STOP PLAYING THE DEVILS GAMES.

And THAT is the main core message i want to bring to you people. STOP. PLAYING. THE . DEVILS. GAMES.

Hes got you. Right where you want him. Fighting him, bitterly to the end, blow for blow, your playing his game, and your getting hurt, and your taking damage, and your wondering if he is. And . Hes a pig in the mud. This is where he lives. This is HOW he EATS YOU and YOUR TIME.

He sweetly sings you a lullabye about change and social evolution, and then he hands you a sword and send you off to go play non violent gladiator with pigs. How many times do you need to reality test it? The pigs are evil scum sucking bottom feeding social parasites. What did you learn? Again and again? with how many people? The hard way? I could have told you that before you started.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

If you think you are making a point, or somehow winning the devils game, i'd like to know what exactly your message is? I'd like to know what point it is that you think you are making? I haven't seen anything substantive. I have seen lists of demands that will never be met by mere protesting. I see ZERO reason to imagine any kind of cause and effect process by which this protesting leads to actual meaningful social change, because your not armed with the truth, your armed with yet another color of ideology and pop culture and mass public opinion devoid of knowledge and half mad in rage. All of your work is merely a means to their end and the primary instigators of this entire event may very well turn out to be CIA style ops. The game is on to establish open martial law. Give them a reason and an excuse. The concentration camps have already been built in the USA. Give them a reason and an excuse.

The SOCIAL problem here is as inescapable as any other dynamic of the problem. Until you put down the swords and pick up the textbooks, until you create science centered open source think tanks and a strong political platform, until you have somebody running for every political office in America... You are just a big noise which most people will never understand and which the media will ultimately distort the garbled signal of in any case. You will Accomplish NOTHING until you wake up to the hard truth that you are out protesting in the streets not because thats the most effectiv way to bring about change- but because you are intellectually and socially lazy, lack any significant answers, and are avoiding the WORK that would have to be done to have a REAL social and educational and Media Revolution/ Evolution.

So while I am on the one hand thankful for 10 thousand heros who have gone off to fight the caste wars on the side of the rest of us... I'm appalled and disgusted that you all went and smeared yourselves in shieet instead of bothering t odo work, instead of joining me in that work, instead of actually doing something productive or constrcutive, you have only added to the social entropy and are attacking in essence the very system which we must rely on until we BUILD something better.

Its easy to play troll, to attack, to knock down bad order. Its a lot harder to bother to take the time to build something new and sane and civil to replace it. So my ten thousand would be allies are all going to go waste their time doing something that won't make a revolution happen, And I'm going to continue on, alone, the only sane or lucid person out there.

Well no. I'm actually going to retire from trying to save the humanz very soon I think unless I get the kind of real allies that are prepared to listen, to understand, and do that real work. And let me tell you. The Very best of you humanz is still almost wasting my time as opposed to talking to myself still. I ask for us to collaborate together and the best I can manage is people faking that for a short time and then crucifying me to their lazyness. I have given the whole set of solutions time and time and time again, and they keep getting deleted because all of my should have been allies are instead wasting their time in up close personal confrontations with pigs.

Until we form those open source think tanks, there will not be meaningful evolution. The public is too lost, the ignorance too thick, and there are infiltrators and game players everywhere... republicans planted deep even inside of Anonymous... doing their dirty work of censoring and controlling and sheeple herding.

Until we have a long list of sub forums, one per main political issue, a long list of sub forums, one per main scientific discipline, a long list of sub forums for different aspects of administration and moderation, a long list of sub forums for the assorted political ideologies, and in each case then multiples of those sub forums in order to work open source research and science centered problem solving process... until that kind of work starts to happen... the very best you could possibly manage is an anarchist takeover of America which would last all of one election season, be tragic and fatally flawed, and then convince everyone the republicans knew better. Your not ready to solve these high order problems, or understand their inherent complexity. You are attacking a system you barely understand and you have NO STRONG ALTERNATIVES.

A much more likely outcome is that two months from now, all of the protests will be ancient history, buried and forgotten.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

Your only real chance to escape the matrix is out of these doors.

Until we have a wiki, which operates using formal conversational logic instead of propaganda warfare like wikipedia, and with the job to amass meaningful truth relevant to solving high order problems instead of lie and manipulate the public once again...

Until we have open source direct democracy think tanks... we have nothing.

And 20 years later I shouldn't have to STILL be out here explaining those ABCs to you all and waiting for the muggles to GET IT.

You can play the devils game, and you will find that ultimately thats why the devils play the devils games. They always win and the game is rigged to always favor them. OR you can have a REAL revolution by EMBRACING your own INTELLECT instead of following the republican prole programming that con scams you all into seeing intellectual matters as well.. something the elites do and you don't.

You have to claim that turf. If there is one place you need to occupy, its the place of FORMAL LOGIC AND INFORMED SCIENTIFIC INTELLECTUALISM. Until you all have a long sit in and occupation of THAT place, every other battle you have you are fighting as unarmed and duped children.

[-] 2 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

gawdoftruth (Santa Barbara, CA) 1 points 39 minutes ago

there are no mods. the ones in irc chat are abusive and have no meta process. there is nothing like that in the forum no moderation at all except for some deletions. if you really think something good is coming- i hope your right. the problem is- its well past almost too late to matter now. For assorted systemic and strategic reasons, this had to be done a week ago, because now i will have to deal with 1001 voices trying to drag us off topic and off focus and away from work. In short, the chance we had to make organization happen was and is a window. that window is now slamming shut and soon no matter what we do we will not be able to create order with everyone whos sane being drowned out by wingnuts. reply permalink edit delete ↥ ↧ MattLHolck 1 points 22 minutes ago

tomorrow always comes

it is never to late reply permalink ↥ ↧ gawdoftruth (Santa Barbara, CA) 1 points 0 seconds ago

let me put it to you this way. it now takes piles of extra time and energy for me to fix it. if it can get fixed its on the backs of the lucids to bail it out. if it doesn't get fixed what it actually is is an infantile temper tantrum by a bunch of rebels without a clue.

[-] 1 points by NoneyaBiznazz (84) from Findlay, OH 11 years ago

Do you have more information along these lines? My curiosity is piqued.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

yes? i have detailed ideas and plans and strategies worked out.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=169262663125231#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=165096780208486 V.I.I.R.


University Project First Steps


University Project Brainstorm


NICE University


Psychonautics Textbook


Socratic Method


Different Kinds of Geothermal Power


Common Myths and Misconceptions About Geothermal Power


Zero Carbon Cities


Energy cost Benefit Analysis


Applications In Practice and Theory for Arcologies


Mega Scale Engineering Criteria


main Problems Clusters


sugestions on how to proceed


WAR vs Economic Social Justice

[-] 1 points by NoneyaBiznazz (84) from Findlay, OH 11 years ago

I have bookmarked the links for later perusal. My only question thus far... Why Facebook?

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

i know. its terrible. we need to find a better thing prolly must create it. because the people are there.

[-] 0 points by woodfoe (25) 11 years ago

Someone needs to set you straight. You are out of your gourd. You are not a non human because if you were your vision for the future would not be as you describe it in the above post. If you think you can tweak the current system with science then your mistaken. We are at a juncture where the root of the problem must be solved, and for this planet x has been sent into our solar system . Watch as Ali Velchi explains on CNN the inbound planet that is four times bigger than Jupiter and is already in our solar system. Maybe this is why the Mayan calender is ending.


[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

yeah, if so, its not likely to be you. i am the one in my gord. your the one here trolling with the crowd prolly. my vision of the future> ? Tweaking the current system? i think the current system has to be dynamically evolved and changed, not just tweaked but fundamentally overhauled and completely rebuilt. Planet X. lol. If there was a body large enough to impact us within the next hundred years we would have spotted it by now. Ever heard of the last 100 new kupier belt objects or etc? get real. Four times the mass o jupiter? lol. such a body would have made our whole solar system unstable and thus normative orbits impossible. it can not exist our solar system is too stable. no such object has in fact been spotted; its only imagined to exist by conspiracy wingnuts and fools. so you tell me i am out of my gord and then you launch a standard wingnut paranoid delusional garbage oid at me? lol. gee. thanks for the laughs.

[-] 1 points by woodfoe (25) 11 years ago

we would have spotted it by now

I guess you didn't bother to see the video on the link I provided. I suppose Ali Velchi is a wingnut and fool. All the unusual weather, droughts, floods, massive tornado outbreaks, and geo-physical disturbances, earthquakes.volcanic eruptions, are just coincidence. I deal in facts. You my non human fake, are just plain wacko.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 11 years ago

A planet 4 times the mass of Jupiter would have gone into a fusion cycle and turned into a star

[-] 0 points by hoot (313) 11 years ago

i see eye to eye with my friends a free market can be one of the most beautiful things ever if we actually had one... but we still can

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

thats true. we should try to get to that.. a real free market instead of a caste market system.

[-] 1 points by hoot (313) 11 years ago

And we can get that we need to protestors need to organize and revolt angainst our government break it down and build it back up...have you ever heard of anarcho capitalism, its a very interesting idea for a new society


[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

yeah, its a conglomerate of two ideologies- NOT science. not interesting to somebody whos got a science background and impatience to see meaningful discussion.

[-] 1 points by hoot (313) 11 years ago

My bad dude just trying to throw some ideas out there thought you might be interested we're going to need a new ideology when this is all over

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

uhm no. we will need science not an ideology. sorry if i am sharp with you we are having a troll attack.

[-] 1 points by hoot (313) 11 years ago

Its chill all i'm saying is we need a free society with no one person any more elite than another I'll leave the science to you my friend

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

ok, i agree with that..