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Forum Post: Where are we, and how do we move forward?

Posted 3 years ago on Oct. 10, 2011, 7:16 p.m. EST by Poplicola (125) from Jersey City, NJ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

David Walker, former US Comptroller General and chief of the GAO, warned before the 2004 election that if large economic changes were not made, by 2009 the United States and its taxpayers would not be able to afford the interest payments on the national debt. A study authorized by the US Treasury in 2001 found that in order to keep servicing the debt at its current rate of growth, by 2013 income taxes would need to be raised to 65%.

If the United States cannot afford to pay the interest on its debts, that would be the final stage of economic collapse and hence result in a total textbook bankruptcy. The systematic crisis would in turn spread to the rest of the world.

How did this happen? Why is the US national debt $14,819,350,000+? Of the 203 countries in the world today, only four (!) do not owe others money. The collective external debt of all the governments in the world is now above 40 trillion dollars and this number doesn’t include the massive about of household debt in each country.

The whole world is basically bankrupt. But how? How can the world as a whole owe money to itself? Obviously, it’s all nonsense. There is no such thing as ‘money’. There are only planetary resources, human labor and human ingenuity. The monetary system regulated by Federal Reserve is nothing more than a game… and an outdated and dysfunctional one at that. Those in positions of social power alter the rules of the game, at will. The nature of those rules is guided by the same competitive, distorted mentalities that are used in everyday “monetary” life, only this time the game is rigged at its root to favor those who run the show. For example, if you have 1 million dollars and put it into a CD at 5% interest, you are going to generate $50,000 a year simply for that deposit. You are making money off of money itself… paper being made from other paper … nothing more - no invention - no contribution to society – no nothing.

That being denoted, if you are a lower to middle class person, who is limited in funds, and must get interest based loans to buy your home or use credit cards, then you are paying interest to the bank, which the bank is then using, in theory, to pay the person’s return with the 5% CD! Not only is this equation outrageously offensive due to the use of usury (interest) to ‘steal from the poor and give to the rich’, but it also perpetuates class stratification by its very design, keeping the lower classes poor, under the constant burden of debt, while keeping the upper classes rich, with the means to turn excess money into more money, with no labor.

That reality aside, there are other games in the system which have worked for decades, but are just now starting to bloom into the inevitable mathematic disasters that should have been anticipated 100 years ago. The point is, our system is broken. Simple policy change will not solve our debt problem. We need to alter the governmental paradigm if we wish to repay our debt. First step: our government must fire the Federal Reserve Board.

12 Comments

12 Comments


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[-] 2 points by AndyfromNewZealand (27) 3 years ago

The whole system all over the world has been created by a private banking cartel. That is why the whole system needs to end.

[-] 3 points by Poplicola (125) from Jersey City, NJ 3 years ago

Some say real free-market economics is the best system, although we've never really seen what that looks like. The Federal Reserve squashed any hopes of a free-market economy. In my opinion the most innovative, necessary, and implementable solution is a resource based economy.

Project Earth: A Resource Based Economy Explained http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDhSgCsD_x8

If you love capitalism, but hate the Federal Reserve, ask yourself this: if the current market is a failure, how can you erase the world's debt? We in the US owe the world everything. Not only are we indebted to the world literally, but we, the leaders of the free world, have been leading the destruction of the environment for how long? Do we not owe it to the world to fix it? We have much of the world's resources, we have the greatest education system in the world, what are we doing wrong?!?! Why do we not take it upon ourselves to construct a sustainable global economy that is based on the natural resources of the planet and use this global economy the repay our debt to the world? I know people love to fantasize about the wealthy and powerful America, but listen, we're indebted to the world! Time to grow a pair and pay the world back. And I know, a resource based economy is “Communist” and “Utopian” STOP ASSIGNING MEAINGLESS WORDS TO IDEAS. The system is a resource based economy, and it is neither communist nor utopian.

The system is a resource based economy, and it is neither communist nor utopian. This is an economic system which should not be confused with a political system.

Our sustainability is under severe threat by the current methods we are using. The monetary system continues to operate with the interest of short-term gain, ignoring the long-term destruction. As Natural Law denotes, we need high quality air, food and water to live, therefore, we must overcome any systems which disturb, or create the propensity to disturb, the symbiotic environmental processes which keep our basic needs in order. If we don’t, the consequences of our violation of this law could put us past the point of no return environmentally - and thus the survival of the human race will be in question.

[-] 2 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 3 years ago

great post. How did it happen? how did we go into debt? its a debt based system. its a rigged casino. governments are going bankrupt but corporations are posting record earnings. as the governments go bankrupt they are in essence seized on by corporate oligarchy. The system is absolutely bankrupt ethically and morally, and that must lead to bankrupt fiscally. However. is all a con scam. As soon as we stop playing at the casino or taking it seriously, the money does exist- its just being funnelled exclusively to the rich.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/thetruth-socialismcapitalismcommunismmarxism/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-versus-corporatism/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/no-war/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/help-me-understand/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-a-love-story/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/sociology/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/energy-101-solution/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/ethics/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/break-your-left-right-conditioning/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/nader-kucinich-and-paul/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/5-facts-you-should-know-about-the-wealthiest-one-p/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/i-am-homeless-joe-jp-morgan-chase-accidentally-for/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/can-we-end-the-fed/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-end-the-federal-reserve-and-what-do-you-replac/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/teaching-the-occupation/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-forum-needs-structure/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-not-your-personal-billboard-for-your-politi/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/systems-theory-primer/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/organize-inform-take-action-effect-change/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/better-website-needed/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-playing-the-devils-games/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/nonviolence-the-only-path/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-not-against-capitalism/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-is-not-about-political-stripe-it-is-about-bas/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/national-initiative-for-democracy/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-third-political-party-the-movement-of-the-middle/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/300-fema-camps/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-a-false-flag-operation/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-this-will-not-work/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/paradigm-shift-now/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-proposal-for-focus/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-the-bullshit-posts-and-get-organized/

[-] 1 points by CHANTER (33) 3 years ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cbUAwCE7JVY#t=48s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxmtreWQoVs&feature=player_profilepage

This is a rather anonymous SONG-CHANT-RANT offering, that will hopefully unify our message on the streets. Imparting some basic historical information that has lead to the continued debasing of free forms of Government. Where a select group of power seekers never seem to have enough of anything, including us.This is a very serious time for the FREE Global Community, our only weapon is Martin Luther King's legacy. They further try to discredit us with accusations of not having a coherent message when their only endgame is to further in-slave us! Abusing others until there is only two classes the Haves and Have-Not's. we’ just not gonna’ take it no more we’ just not gonna’ take it no more we’ just not gonna’ take it no more

nothing’s been the same since jfk eisenhower warned us it would get this way a vast military-industrial-complex a vast military-industrial-complex

were out here to show the one percentors we’ just not gonna’ take it no more we’ just not gonna’ take it no more

oly norquist pledged most congress (oly’ = satire oliver north)
to his power lil’ oly’ norquist pledged most congress (piglet)
to his power

we’ know who you are were’ tired of our voices not counting

we’ just not gonna’ take it no more we’ just not gonna’ take it no more we’ just not gonna’ take it no more

were out on the streets to get our “countries” back

until foreign trade benefits---the 99%

were out on the streets to get our “countries” back

until foreign trade benefits---the 99%

were’ just not gonna’ take it no more were’ just not gonna’ take it no more were’ just not gonna’ take it no more

so, your’ spreadin’ democracy all over --the world your’ spreadin’ democracy all over --the world

it’s gotten’ so corrupt even we---don’t understand it!

so, your’ spreadin’ democracy all over --the world spreadin’ your’ democracy all over --the world

it’s gotten’ so corrupt even we---don’t understand it!

bring back our soldiers’s your cor-poor-et wars are all over bring back our soldiers’s your cor-poor-et wars are all over

were out here to show the one percentors we’ just not gonna’ take it no more we’ just not gonna’ take it no more

it’s too bad we hav-at spell it out but liars never listen they just -run their mouths

a thousand point of light all over the world

a new world order the bil-dah-burgers can go to hell

were’ just not gonna’ take it no more were’ just not gonna’ take it no more were’ just not gonna’ take it no more------

were’ just not gonna’ take it no more!

krw4u5@yahoo.com

[-] 1 points by ConcernedEconomist (67) 3 years ago

The specific economics behind all of this is complex but basically - we need the government to run a deficit in times of economic crisis (such as now) and elminate the debt by running surpluses in the boom years (1990's and 2000-2006). Problem is, how to force politicians to uphold politically unpopular fiscal discipline when they're short-shortsightedly focused only on the next election...

[-] 2 points by Poplicola (125) from Jersey City, NJ 3 years ago

How do you grow the US economy without the military industrial complex and breaks to big business? Both of these would dramatically reduce production during a time where we can't afford any bumps in the road...

[-] 1 points by ConcernedEconomist (67) 3 years ago

Who is advocating the abolishment of the military industrial complex? I just said we need to spend in times like these in order to stabilize economic activity provided we have the discipline to pay it off in the future when things recover.

Tax loopholes need to be repealed as they only serve to stack the deck against innovative small businesses - too much governmental regulation strangles efficiency and productivity.

[-] 1 points by Poplicola (125) from Jersey City, NJ 3 years ago

we the people advocate the abolishment of the military industrial complex.

[-] 1 points by ConcernedEconomist (67) 3 years ago

You are not the people, you are you, I am me, we differ in opinion and that's fine but if you assert that opinion as the opinion of the movement then you will quickly lose support and the movement will become an impotent exercise in communal camping.

The opinion which we agree on is that things are F*$#ed up and the government is currently broken and not representative of the people.

[-] 1 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 3 years ago

Although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management Group of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategic Legal Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:

http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures

Join

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/

if you want to support a Presidential Candidate Committee at AmericansElect.org in support of the above bank-focused platform.

[-] 1 points by patriot4change (818) 3 years ago

Of course. The FED is sooooooo out of here!

[-] 0 points by MrCloudEconomy (2) 3 years ago

Noble effort, but living in the information age the people needed for jobs are ones with backgrounds in math science and IT. Organizations will be running meaner and leaner you must adapt and change or die....Don't hate the players learn how to play the game, because the march work and development keeps moving. I know it sounds mean I don't mean to be that's not my intent, but for those of us developing advanced technologies and advanced manufacturing we juts don't have the skilled labor we need...start learning today the internet is full of information to get started.....Don't get left behind!