Forum Post: Help me understand
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 7, 2011, 11:24 p.m. EST by ModerateRepublican
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Just what is it that you want to change? Do you want more money? Do you want a better job? Do you want a bigger apartment? I don't understand what this movement wants.
When I have a problem, I first find out what that problem is, after which I look for honest solutions to the problems and present both the problems and the possible solutions at the same time.
Just trying to understand why we are only villianising Wall Street?
You can't say that Soros, Gates, Perot, Pickens NBA/MLB/NFL/NHL players, Actors/Actresses, or banks make too much money without stating the problem with making that money and then also providing possible solutions.
I mean it's great that we have people sticking up for us like Moore and Huffington, but don't they make too much also? Aren't they about how much they can profit off of their articles and movies?
What about the politicians that made it easier for all the people making minimum amounts of money to purchase housing? They certainly helped lead up to this problem.
What about the media that made it look like you could get rich quick simply by purchasing a home that needed a little bit of fix up and turn around in a matter of weeks and make a profit of $100K? That certainly made housing explode.
These are the things that hurt America. The "I want it new and I want it now" mentality that we have grown accustomed to.
Why is it that someone in sports is more valuable than the nurse that heals you or the teacher that helps you learn to read? Because that is what WE have said.
Why is the Actor/Actress more valuable than the nurse or teacher? Because that is what WE have said.
If you don't like what the banks are doing STOP doing business with them. I love my credit union - OWNED BY THE PEOPLE not by someone overseas. If you don't like how much CEO's are being paid STOP doing business with them. If you don't like how your politicians are working for you TELL THEM WITH YOUR VOTE!
It is time to stop being polarized by the Dems or Repubs. They both have valid points (NOT ALL) but there is middle ground that can be found. You can't have a great country again without the ability to compromise and that, my friends, is what this country has forgotten to do. There is no more compromising from either side of the aisle. It has come down to "my way or the highway."
Boehner, Pelosi, Reid and McConnel get off your butts and find the common points that you have with each other and get our country back to the greatness it once was.
There is room here for all.
I can only speak for myself... I'm (mainly) here to end a corporately funded government. Corporate interests can donate millions of dollars to influence BOTH of the two parties that are supposed to represent my interests. In the end, neither represents me, they represent those who can afford to pay them.
Wall Street is the epicenter of the financial (now corporate) world, particularly in New York which was where the first dam of dissent broke. I'm not here to protest Wall Street itself, I'm here to protest the powerful and affluent OF Wall Street's death grip on MY American government.
But that's just me and this movement is for everyone who wants to take part in it. I'll make my voice heard. I hope you do to.
nobody here wants any of what you mentioned, they're protesting for an end to corporate influence in our government, so this is basically about putting an end to political corruption. So let me answer your question with a question, do you want your politicians doing whats in the best interest of the wealthy few who finance their campaigns or for the good of America? Once again another person on here thinking this has something to do with class warfare, which it doesn't in the least bit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cbUAwCE7JVY#t=48s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxmtreWQoVs&feature=player_profilepage
This is a rather anonymous SONG-CHANT-RANT offering, that will hopefully unify our message on the streets. Imparting some basic historical information that has lead to the continued debasing of free forms of Government. Where a select group of power seekers never seem to have enough of anything, including us.This is a very serious time for the FREE Global Community, our only weapon is Martin Luther King's legacy. They further try to discredit us with accusations of not having a coherent message when their only endgame is to further in-slave us! Abusing others until there is only two classes the Haves and Have-Not's. we’ just not gonna’ take it no more we’ just not gonna’ take it no more we’ just not gonna’ take it no more
nothing’s been the same since jfk eisenhower warned us it would get this way a vast military-industrial-complex a vast military-industrial-complex
were out here to show the one percentors we’ just not gonna’ take it no more we’ just not gonna’ take it no more
oly norquist pledged most congress (oly’ = satire oliver north)
to his power lil’ oly’ norquist pledged most congress (piglet)
to his power
we’ know who you are were’ tired of our voices not counting
we’ just not gonna’ take it no more we’ just not gonna’ take it no more we’ just not gonna’ take it no more
were out on the streets to get our “countries” back
until foreign trade benefits---the 99%
were out on the streets to get our “countries” back
until foreign trade benefits---the 99%
were’ just not gonna’ take it no more were’ just not gonna’ take it no more were’ just not gonna’ take it no more
so, your’ spreadin’ democracy all over --the world your’ spreadin’ democracy all over --the world
it’s gotten’ so corrupt even we---don’t understand it!
so, your’ spreadin’ democracy all over --the world spreadin’ your’ democracy all over --the world
it’s gotten’ so corrupt even we---don’t understand it!
bring back our soldiers’s your cor-poor-et wars are all over bring back our soldiers’s your cor-poor-et wars are all over
were out here to show the one percentors we’ just not gonna’ take it no more we’ just not gonna’ take it no more
it’s too bad we hav-at spell it out but liars never listen they just -run their mouths
a thousand point of light all over the world
a new world order the bil-dah-burgers can go to hell
were’ just not gonna’ take it no more were’ just not gonna’ take it no more were’ just not gonna’ take it no more------
were’ just not gonna’ take it no more!
i want to end the need of money for all time, because it is the way that the "authority" buys force, & demands we must all, subject ourselves to employment (paid autonomous slavery) or not eat or have shelter.
There is a better way, here's how;
If you can make pasta, you can boil milk solids. This resin can be made into http://www.reprapcentral.com/ & made more efficient with http://www.arduino.cc/ & some computer skills. (You can make plates, utensils, sandals & toys.) From this 3-D Printer, you can then make the parts for an aqua-culture fish farm basin & hydroponics vegetable, or sustainable food production. Then a water catch & filtration system, (ever have a pool, not much more complicated). A little wind & or solar tech to power it all, built into an http://www.earthship.org/ (which is a sustainable home made from reused/recycled materials) All we need are cows, silicon, fish, seeds, old tire yards, (i'll be honest, i don't know how solar works, but i can make electricity with magnets). The point is, Off the Grid, Sustainability, is possible & cheaper, because it's open-sourced. This is the backbone of a new civilization, one that doesn't need money, politics, corporations, religion, poverty or war. Imagine, what would this do for the welfare state? & how this kind of "Welfare-to-work" program, could get people off the dole, forever! We as a society, could then recreate our education systems, so that they focused, on early development of the Trivium & Quadrivium, before High School. Then, in high school, each child would be ready to create that which i described above. Imagine now, that each child, had the knowledge of creating & maintaining their own sustainable, off the grid home, before they went off to college?
The Truth does exist, & it is Knowable.
Moderate,
I think I can explain it to you succinctly.
80% of the people involved in this movement want to leach off the State. That's what they do.
The other 20% is a wonderful collection of bright people who want to discuss how to improve our country. It's hard to sort through the noise.
Good luck.
sorry, i do know exactly what feudalism is. You trying to talk about its main features and then say that other features of feudalism are not the feudalism is silly. The dominant or single most relevant point is land ownership, certainly, but there are other features of feudalism, one of which is most certainly taxes, and to the point, by definition taxation as such begins in feudal systems. It is remarkably futile and silly to argue with me. It would be wiser to stop and take your opportunity to chat with the DJIN. capitalism is ALSO a system which has NEVER existed.
the core issues; 1. Corporate Personhood. 2. Caste Warfare; they started it. 3. Its legal to lie to the USA public. 4. They are OUR airwaves. They should be used for WETHEPEOPLE not leased by the government to corporations. Put Local colleges in charge of all the media. Arrest and seize all mass media devices and then give those devices straight out to the local colleges, including the land they sit on. We need education public media; not legalized lying and propaganda wars against the people. 5. Education reform. Everyones being kept stupid and ignorant on purpose in school and repugnicons want to argue about how to pay or punish teachers. We need child centered education reform, not a con scam to privatize education and thus score all our children for corporate zombotification. 6. Free market system. Not slave market system. Not caste market system. Not Caste warfare market system. Not rigged Casino. Not making something off of nothing and making bubbles to grease a gravy train either. Free market system. We must have one of those. Its time to have one of those. We have NEVER YET had one of those. 7. Realistic regulation of the government to regulate and control corporations so that what they do is fair and just and ethical and under control instead of a parade of unleashed godzillas turning the masses into to toe jam. 8. Real and direct representation, including no more lobbying, and including an evolutionary use of the internet with organized forums and wikis replacing the old style of congressional/ mayoral office.
"Right, but that still doesn't preclude taxation, which is in fact necessary to regulate the value of money"
nope. taxation period of any kind is merely and only a means to the end of creating a caste system. And even deeper, taxation dynamically entropizes a system, so its not only not necessary to regulate money, its the single largest entropic contributor to the system. The ONLY reason why we pay taxes is thats the feudal system; the idea that we pay anything remotely approaching the same thing or fair to what the rich pay is preposterous. The whole point of taxes is to distribute wealth from the poor to the rich. period.
gawdoftruth (Santa Barbara, CA) 1 points 0 seconds ago
"the end goal product should be that every small community takes care of its own. Any federal system is a problem definition of something requiring more serious attention to solve. long term social programs managed by nation sized meta entities is a disaster not only socially and civilly but to the people who get third rate borg social services. A well functioning system does not need a welfare system, it only has a highly evolved net which catches people and only involves less than one percent of the population at any given time, not punishing but rehabing and educating folks. Until such time as that end goal is achieved, no hand outs is a paradox... you have to spend time and thus money in order to fix the problems till their fixed past needing time or money."
"Why aren't u in office???"
aspergers syndrome. you want to run,? i can ghost write your platform? :)
?
"Understood we need more ideas then politicians anyway. The fixes are so simple but so difficult to get implemented."
? gawdoftruth (Santa Barbara, CA) 1 points 0 seconds ago
i'm running for chief of staff. bit early to announce yet since i have no clue whos running on my ticket for president?
http://forums.keller2012.com/index.php i created this forum org structure. but scott keller turned out to be an idiot.
your still missing the point. your playing with math. your right. its something more like the 99.99 percent. There are 4000 or 100,000 persons depending on wether we are talking the inner or outer circle of oligarchs keeping the rest of us trapped in a "capitalism" Hotel California con scam. While you can climb upward from the bottom there are increasingly more powerful glass cielings. And on fact one of the effects of the recent bush era caste war changes is that the people who imagined themselves to be in the inside are amongst those that are losing it all. The real question is not how YOU define it. The real question is; as a system org structure, how does it operate? Thats 100 thousand peeps keeping 3 million peeps as cattle.
to get serious requires a few things they don't have. like chat admins who aren't ego serving propaganda tools, a wiki, 1001 sub forums, an actual game plan, a straight up political platform... you know.. basic organizational things sane people do BEFORE protesting.. like figure out a diplomacy and logic centered metaprocess to give their chatadmins so that they don't really just drive out even more people than the trolls. Adminatrolla. trollaAdmin. Whats the difference to somebody whos got the truth facing a propaganda tool abusing admin powers to push their agenda? how can you prevent such a thing? Metaprocess. did i mention metaprocess? and science diplomacy science psychology science sociology and all those textbooks to read B4 protesting?
you can't have capitalism without a free(SLAVE) market. but you can have a free market without capitalism. And thats strangely the only way it CAN work.
Marketing 101 was fascinating. I admit thats a lot less than a bachelors but its sure more than enough to see whats really going on given the other things I know. Capitalism is not the problem since it does not exist. corporate oligarchy is the problem. capitalism has never been tried. I am a democracy guy. in order for real democracy to function a free market system is required. Thats not capitalism. thats a free market system. there is a subtle difference there which most people would miss. I will again repeat. Neither capitalism nor marxism nor communism nor socialism has ever existed. All of those governments were oligarchy pretending to be something as a con scam. Telling that simple truth gets one banned out of the Chat by either a capitalist or a socialist whos pissed you just said their pet ideology isn't real. It isn't. anybody who thinks that it is is accidentally playing for team corporate oligarchy as a tool. the ONLY system worth talking about is DEMOCRACY. how democracy HANDLES a FREE MARKET system is dynamic and interesting and NOT capitalism.
o. yes. no. yes. what? making change is not reliant on changing the money system one tenth as much as it is on changing the informational ecology. Going to a gold standard as an idea is a proof of ignorance, not a solution. Really the end game is we evolve out of money. To do that we evolve first new currencies and new economic strategies. this leads to economic singularity in about 50 years. If everyone is a millionaire how much you get depends on exactly the material valuation of that money. Which is to say that by the time money becomes obsolete everyone will live like the current millionaire. Tangible items to other tangible items? the real economy is about ideas, change the ideas and everything changes. the problem with the tangible economy is it does not change; its a static reality. you can't make a meaningful gold standard with only enough gold to represent on millionth of the economy. You can make a purely imaginal money system work; but it has to be subject to moral and ethical laws. This is about pinning down those moral and ethical laws and implementing them in new currencies; not trying to imagine a control freak impossible non solution because of the simplicity with which you go about thinking over the problem.
once again. there has never been a socialist or capitalist economy. in all instances such nations were oligarchies. using a mask and a con scam and telling their dupes and pwns that they were something other than oligarchy. the big hump to get over is that the USA oligarchy and the Soviet oligarchy are in on this lie against the rest of us TOGETHER. Neither of them was ever anything other than an oligarchy. both claimed some other system in order to have US fight over the ideals of THAT system while they secretly shafted us all playing a completely different game.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-playing-the-devils-games/
I want fairness & justice, I don't want a country that gives lip service to freedom of speech and then pepper sprays and intimidates and insults those who speak, I totally agree with you that Wall St should not be singled out. The entire corporate/government complex is corrupt. And we should tell that to both parties with our vote. Toss out both parties. Let's occupy DC. And we need to end the wars NOW. Unbiased, noncorrupt media are essential to a democracy. We don't have that. Let's not let the media shape us. You are correct that individual people need to take individual action such as choosing a credit union over a bank, rejecting consumerism, not watching pro sports, etc. But our options are actually very limited by the people that hold the power. For example, I would like to buy products Made in the USA and I would like to ditch my car for public transportation, Not to mention, I don't want my food supply controlled and manipulated by Monsanto. No can do,
I want Congress to assert its constitutional power over currency and stop letting a privately owned bank issue it.
Place attention on how it started, who is participating and who represents this movement.
You'll find that it is not linked to a party or ideology. It is not "Us" vs. "Them".
It is people sharing the pain caused by the wrongdoing of a few.
If things are bad in America it is because the system has become unbalanced. People reactions like the creation of this movement is not necessarily a bad thing.
There isn't enough money in the world to satisfy the greed of corporate executives and the politicians favoring them. Some change is inevitable and better than drastic changes like those experienced in some Arab countries recently. Don't you think?
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