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Forum Post: THETRUTH/ Socialism.capitalism.communism.marxism

Posted 3 years ago on Oct. 4, 2011, 7:20 p.m. EST by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

to get serious requires a few things they don't have. like chat admins who aren't ego serving propaganda tools, a wiki, 1001 sub forums, an actual game plan, a straight up political platform... you know.. basic organizational things sane people do BEFORE protesting.. like figure out a diplomacy and logic centered metaprocess to give their chatadmins so that they don't really just drive out even more people than the trolls. Adminatrolla. trollaAdmin. Whats the difference to somebody whos got the truth facing a propaganda tool abusing admin powers to push their agenda? how can you prevent such a thing? Metaprocess. did i mention metaprocess? and science diplomacy science psychology science sociology and all those textbooks to read B4 protesting?

you can't have capitalism without a free(SLAVE) market. but you can have a free market without capitalism. And thats strangely the only way it CAN work.

Marketing 101 was fascinating. I admit thats a lot less than a bachelors but its sure more than enough to see whats really going on given the other things I know. Capitalism is not the problem since it does not exist. corporate oligarchy is the problem. capitalism has never been tried. I am a democracy guy. in order for real democracy to function a free market system is required. Thats not capitalism. thats a free market system. there is a subtle difference there which most people would miss. I will again repeat. Neither capitalism nor marxism nor communism nor socialism has ever existed. All of those governments were oligarchy pretending to be something as a con scam. Telling that simple truth gets one banned out of the Chat by either a capitalist or a socialist whos pissed you just said their pet ideology isn't real. It isn't. anybody who thinks that it is is accidentally playing for team corporate oligarchy as a tool. the ONLY system worth talking about is DEMOCRACY. how democracy HANDLES a FREE MARKET system is dynamic and interesting and NOT capitalism.

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85 Comments


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[-] 2 points by luparb (290) 3 years ago

Here's a question for you.

If we have 'true' capitalism. How do we prevent another oligarchy from occurring.

If all land and means of production are owned privately, people will be able to acquire more land and money, thus resulting in another oligarchy.

How are you going to stop that.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

true capitalism IS a form of oligarchy, so your question is senseless. we need genuine democracy with a free market system, capitalism is out of evolutionary time. Capitalism as neat an idea as it was never existed and will likely never exist.

The balance of democracy is social services on the one side and a free market system on the other.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 3 years ago

capitalism is a form of oligarchy. we have genuine open source democracy and then a free market system within that.

matt; your living in an archaic experience of tool use. the future replaces the mechanic with robots and theres just a human operator.

luparb; exactly, which is why capitalism as a system isn't really a solution- a free market inside of democracy is.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 3 years ago

I had mused

the trouble with shared ownership is

the mechanic can never find his tools when he needs them

perhaps if

one cannot own more property than is require for its business and its home

[-] 1 points by luparb (290) 3 years ago

This is a valid solution, one that I would support.

However, those interested in free market capitalism would take issue with this limitation on property.

When capital is accumulated, it must be then exchanged for more objects of value.

It is almost inevitable, that capital will be exchanged for means of production and labor power in order to accumulate more capital. It will likely result in what we see today.

This is the problem with capitalism. It cannot maintain boundaries.

[-] 0 points by figero (661) 2 years ago

government is there to prevent monopolies not participate in them. The government is the referee on the filed, not one of the players.

[-] 1 points by CHANTER (33) 2 years ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cbUAwCE7JVY#t=48s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxmtreWQoVs&feature=player_profilepage

This is a rather anonymous SONG-CHANT-RANT offering, that will hopefully unify our message on the streets. Imparting some basic historical information that has lead to the continued debasing of free forms of Government. Where a select group of power seekers never seem to have enough of anything, including us.This is a very serious time for the FREE Global Community, our only weapon is Martin Luther King's legacy. They further try to discredit us with accusations of not having a coherent message when their only endgame is to further in-slave us! Abusing others until there is only two classes the Haves and Have-Not's. we’ just not gonna’ take it no more we’ just not gonna’ take it no more we’ just not gonna’ take it no more

nothing’s been the same since jfk eisenhower warned us it would get this way a vast military-industrial-complex a vast military-industrial-complex

were out here to show the one percentors we’ just not gonna’ take it no more we’ just not gonna’ take it no more

oly norquist pledged most congress (oly’ = satire oliver north)
to his power lil’ oly’ norquist pledged most congress (piglet)
to his power

we’ know who you are were’ tired of our voices not counting

we’ just not gonna’ take it no more we’ just not gonna’ take it no more we’ just not gonna’ take it no more

were out on the streets to get our “countries” back

until foreign trade benefits---the 99%

were out on the streets to get our “countries” back

until foreign trade benefits---the 99%

were’ just not gonna’ take it no more were’ just not gonna’ take it no more were’ just not gonna’ take it no more

so, your’ spreadin’ democracy all over --the world your’ spreadin’ democracy all over --the world

it’s gotten’ so corrupt even we---don’t understand it!

so, your’ spreadin’ democracy all over --the world spreadin’ your’ democracy all over --the world

it’s gotten’ so corrupt even we---don’t understand it!

bring back our soldiers’s your cor-poor-et wars are all over bring back our soldiers’s your cor-poor-et wars are all over

were out here to show the one percentors we’ just not gonna’ take it no more we’ just not gonna’ take it no more

it’s too bad we hav-at spell it out but liars never listen they just -run their mouths

a thousand point of light all over the world

a new world order the bil-dah-burgers can go to hell

were’ just not gonna’ take it no more were’ just not gonna’ take it no more were’ just not gonna’ take it no more------

were’ just not gonna’ take it no more!

[-] 1 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 3 years ago

Agreed, no one should be banned from chat for any reason and corporate oligarchy is the problem, but we also need is a comprehensive strategy, and related candidate, that implements all our demands at the same time, and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management System of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategic Legal Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:

http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures

Join

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/

if you want to be 1 of 100,000 people needed to support a Presidential Candidate – such as myself – at AmericansElect.org in support of the above bank-focused platform.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 3 years ago

“Americans are more afraid of the word “socialism” than they are of cancer, hiv or world war III. and they will fight it to their graves ….

      Calm down people, you are only fighting a “word” …

Neither socialism or capitalism exist in nature without the other… Alone they are mere philosophies…

   "socialism without capitalistic freedom & incentives" 
             will fail just as miserably as 
  "capitalism without regulation" has just demonstrated...

   We can build a "true democracy" founded on the dreams 
           of all mankind & all ideologies...
                   We are the 99%“
[-] 1 points by RichardGates (1529) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 3 years ago

how do you exchange democracy? how do you purchase with it?

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 3 years ago

free market system and congressional banks.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 3 years ago

gawdoftruth (Santa Barbara, CA) 1 points 0 seconds ago

"cap·i·tal·ism    [kap-i-tl-iz-uhm] Show IPA noun an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, especially as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth."

Corporate oligarchy; an economic and political system, in which investment and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth, is made and maintained chiefly by a shadow government, which uses other systems such as capitalism or democracy as a front and mask to cover over the simple truth. Capitalism= private ownership Corporate oligarchy= state ownership. In this, corporate oligarchy is actually closer to socialism and communism than it actually is to capitalism.

gawdoftruth (Santa Barbara, CA) 1 points 7 minutes ago

the standard way. capital. ism.

"cap·i·tal·ism    [kap-i-tl-iz-uhm] Show IPA noun an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, especially as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth."

sounds like our system until you stop and consider that in fact the corporate oligarchy constitutes a supra legal shadow government, and so the vast majority of all holdings and resources and money is actually owned by that shadow government.

Capitalism in the real sense by comparison would be far better, because at least those things would be held by private citizens instead of a shadow government.

capitalism never existed. corporate oligarchy make believing capitalism like little girls make believing in tea is not capitalism.

you can't remove what does not exist. without your super villain, your super hero is just an old bearded dead man with bright red underwear.

corporate oligarchies need to expand. true form capitalism is far more stable and steady state.

Marxism can analyze a theoretical system which has never existed all it likes.

Its a stupid and pointless game. Since capitalism does not exist, marxism is accidentally just propping up capitalism the con scam by being the convenient foil and false critique.

Any promotion of marxism is thus actually a promotion of " capitalism"- the corporate oligarchy con scam.

you are a dupe and a pawn and a tool, until you wake up.

[-] 1 points by OWSNewPartyTakeNY2012 (195) 3 years ago

If your right, then a state run oligarchy has produced the highest G.D.P. in world history. Why would we waste our time with capitalism if the state has proven its ability to create such tremendous wealth? Of course the wealth should be spread.

[-] 1 points by omega (0) 2 years ago

Then why aren't the OWS people willing to spread the wealth of organic chicken meals to the "professional homeless"?

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 3 years ago

while that may seem neato to you, its simply a silly joke to a systems theorist. your system has enormous strengths sure but it also has enormous wastes and inefficiencies. merely having a great national product is BTW hardly such a wonderful thing. but a democratic system could produce orders of magnitude more .. but would require orders of magnitude less.

[-] 1 points by unlabeled (112) 2 years ago

Everyone in the world could collectively start buying businesses. Every person will be a share holder, and have 1 vote to control the businesses. We can make a Corporation that is owned by everyone and ran by a delegate of our choosing. All the profits will go to whatever the people choose, by a vote. http://occupywallst.org/forum/fight-fire-with-fire/

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

not meaningful to even try that in a rigged economy.

until we have a free market system instead of a caste system being a small business owner is really signing up for a ball and chain.

[-] 1 points by unlabeled (112) 2 years ago

I recently found out that this system is very similar to 'participatory economics' or 'parecon' for short I agree that the economy is rigged, and the 'kings' wouldn't appreciate this kind of competition. However, if we can successfully set up a system for Direct Democracy, this would compliment it nicely. :)

[-] 1 points by OWSNewPartyTakeNY2012 (195) 3 years ago

I'm just not convinced that we are as devoid of capitalism as you say. Therefore more capitalism wouldn't necessarily be the best solution. I will concede that when an industry gets big enough it becomes a fascist oligarchy but I think we need barriers to that rather then anarchy. Could we be dramatically more efficient, yes, totally.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 3 years ago

then you need to bother to get educated, because its a simple fact. there is not capitalism, there is just the carrot caleld capitalism on the end of the hook.

i agree, not into anarchy, into democracy.

[-] 1 points by OWSNewPartyTakeNY2012 (195) 3 years ago

so are you advocating libertarianism?

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 3 years ago

what part of i am not into anarchy and i am into DEMOCRACY did you miss there? libertarianism is an ISM not a science, it is part of the problem as such, not a solution, just one more of the team sports which they use to divide and conquer us. I do agree with the idea of a new party.

just not silly stuff like going to a "gold standard" or etc.

[-] 1 points by Dutchess (499) 3 years ago

I think you should read Hayek..Road to Serfdom. The American version of free market and sound money is dumbed down.

[-] 1 points by OWSNewPartyTakeNY2012 (195) 3 years ago

Ok, bro, I feel were your coming from. i was just making sure you weren't one of these Ron Paul loons invading the threads.

[-] 1 points by unlabeled (112) 2 years ago

Everyone in the world could collectively start buying businesses. Every person will be a share holder, and have 1 vote to control the businesses. We can make a Corporation that is owned by everyone and ran by a delegate of our choosing. All the profits will go to whatever the people choose, by a vote. http://occupywallst.org/forum/fight-fire-with-fire/

[-] 1 points by Dutchess (499) 3 years ago

And you are indeed correct...true capitalism or communism has not existed. Every time a system comes around, man knows how to corrupt it. Greed is at the core of all our misery.

[-] 1 points by Dutchess (499) 3 years ago

Civil Liberties and Economic freedom go hand in hand.. Civil liberties and economic freedom go hand in hand ( see Hayek, Road to Serfdom). Unless people understand that the frame work for true liberty is our Constitution and that central planning always leads to tyranny , no matter how well the intentions are, can there be no change. Hitler had a chance to rise to power because the Weimar Republic ( Germany) had very strong socialist tendencies where people looked at a central entity to solve their problems. Power to the people means, give them control back at the local level ( See Antonia Juhasz "the Bush Agenda, invading the World one economy at the time') Your Individual Rights are protected by the Bill of Rights, your economic rights should be in your hands at the local level. Both the left and the right recognize....its about local markets,local control over government and local solutions..... We need to open our eyes to reality and recognize that Global Economy is the race to the bottom on wages and livelyhoods of populations.

[-] 1 points by KarmaTinfoil (52) from Philadelphia, PA 3 years ago

Democracy is 2 wolves & a sheep discussing dinner & free markets require regulation so the greedy profiteers don't monopolize it, but then gov't gets created to stop the monopoly, & gets bought out to stay in it's state reinforced capitalist imperialism. There are other ways......

If you can make pasta, you can boil milk solids. This resin can be made into http://www.reprapcentral.com/ & made more efficient with http://www.arduino.cc/ & some computer skills. (You can make plates, utensils, sandals & toys.) From this 3-D Printer, you can then make the parts for an aqua-culture fish farm basin & hydroponics vegetable, or sustainable food production. Then a water catch & filtration system, (ever have a pool, not much more complicated). A little wind & or solar tech to power it all, built into an http://www.earthship.org/ (which is a sustainable home made from reused/recycled materials) All we need are cows, silicon, fish, seeds, old tire yards, (i'll be honest, i don't know how solar works, but i can make electricity with magnets). The point is, Off the Grid, Sustainability, is possible & cheaper, because it's open-sourced. This is the backbone of a new civilization, one that doesn't need money, politics, corporations, religion, poverty or war. Imagine, what would this do for the welfare state? & how this kind of "Welfare-to-work" program, could get people off the dole, forever! We as a society, could then recreate our education systems, so that they focused, on early development of the Trivium & Quadrivium, before High School. Then, in high school, each child would be ready to create that which i described above. Imagine now, that each child, had the knowledge of creating & maintaining their own sustainable, off the grid home, before they went off to college?

The Truth does exist, & it is Knowable.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 3 years ago

thats not democracy, thats ochliocracy. I do love earth ships.

[-] 1 points by Justakid (40) from Villa Rica, GA 3 years ago

Yes, you're correct.Capitalism does not always imply a "Free market" because at some point only a few businesses are able to compete. So the "free" is taken out of the Capitalistic "market". And yes, our current system thrives on oligarchy because monopolistic markets tend to create the most profit. Constant competition, free market, doesn't usually yield an obscenely high profit because you're always competing with lower prices. So you don't have enough edge to become an oligarch.

I agree completely with your point about Communism/Capitalism/Socialism "never existing". But I don't think Marxism can be thrown into the mix because Marxism only represents a general ideology, not necessarily the implementation of a specific system.

Also, I question whether a "Free market" can be created. It's a nice thought if you're living in a vacuum, but it would involve abolishing a lot of existing prejudice and branding. Change of that scale indicates both political and psychological reform. The later type of change is difficult to obtain in a single congressional session. D: But even if you did establish a free market, it would be difficult to maintain. Unregulated businesses can grow at an uneven pace. It would be difficult to keep the market "free".

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 3 years ago

agreed, these are hard problems. what keeps a free market free is a very small number of very lucid laws and regulations which force it to be ethical and thus open and equal. Its possible to build such a system- just immensely more complicated than chat can address meaningfully. systems theory, game theory, sociology.. formal logic.. science.. all has to weigh on on this to get the right and real answer.

[-] 1 points by Justakid (40) from Villa Rica, GA 3 years ago

Where to start?

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 3 years ago

if i had a wiki, that would be easy. since there is no work space the only place to start is to either wait for the incompetent to finally pull it together or create a work space. Seriously you have no idea how bent out of shape i am on this. Its been over a week now since i was promised organizational sub forums. The task was apparently given to a modd team. So. I can expect to actually have these crucial things up i guess some time after it won't make a difference any more.

[-] 1 points by Justakid (40) from Villa Rica, GA 3 years ago

Why not begin with a word document? Chart out your plan and blog it.

[-] 3 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 3 years ago

been there. done that.


http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=169262663125231#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=165096780208486 V.I.I.R.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=168277696557061

University Project First Steps

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=168279776556853

University Project Brainstorm

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=168142193237278

NICE University

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=167877999930364

Psychonautics Textbook

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=167448986639932

Socratic Method

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=166330673418430

Different Kinds of Geothermal Power

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=166259990092165

Common Myths and Misconceptions About Geothermal Power

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=166255476759283

Zero Carbon Cities

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=166254060092758

Energy cost Benefit Analysis

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=166057976779033

Applications In Practice and Theory for Arcologies

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=166041926780638

Mega Scale Engineering Criteria

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=163547577030073

main Problems Clusters

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=169262663125231#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=165334013518096

sugestions on how to proceed

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=169262663125231#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=165099426874888

WAR vs Economic Social Justice

[-] 1 points by Justakid (40) from Villa Rica, GA 3 years ago

I'm so glad people like you exist!!

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 3 years ago

me 2.. lol...

[-] 1 points by Justakid (40) from Villa Rica, GA 3 years ago

That's awesome. I'm going to sift through them this weekend.

[-] 1 points by pariscommune (205) 3 years ago

i know im repeating myself but it would offer you great credibility if you pointed out why free market is not capitalism instead of claiming it all the time without giving evidence.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 3 years ago

i have done that several times. thanks to idiots flooding the forum, its impossible to find. I'm not going to go twenty minutes deep when the real solution is for you guys to bother reading a political science textbook.

What i have said is absolute, it is simple, and it should be self evident. If you have a problem following along, you prolly shouldn't have joined a political movement in the first place till after you read the political science textbook.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/transition-plan/

[-] 1 points by pariscommune (205) 3 years ago

dude remember me i trampled on your ideas many days ago when there was like 30 posts in this forum. im really not the one in dire need of education in political economy, you are. now give some evidence instead of claiming free market good and capitalism bad. evidence goes like this: you name the essence of capitalism (what is a capital?) and the essence of free market (what is a free market?) and then show how they exclude each other. all i heard from you so far is free market good, capitalism bad. and i still stick to my assumption that you have no clue what either of them are in essence untill you prove the contrary.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 3 years ago

to get serious requires a few things they don't have. like chat admins who aren't ego serving propaganda tools, a wiki, 1001 sub forums, an actual game plan, a straight up political platform... you know.. basic organizational things sane people do BEFORE protesting.. like figure out a diplomacy and logic centered metaprocess to give their chatadmins so that they don't really just drive out even more people than the trolls. Adminatrolla. trollaAdmin. Whats the difference to somebody whos got the truth facing a propaganda tool abusing admin powers to push their agenda? how can you prevent such a thing? Metaprocess. did i mention metaprocess? and science diplomacy science psychology science sociology and all those textbooks to read B4 protesting?

you can't have capitalism without a free(SLAVE) market. but you can have a free market without capitalism. And thats strangely the only way it CAN work.

Marketing 101 was fascinating. I admit thats a lot less than a bachelors but its sure more than enough to see whats really going on given the other things I know. Capitalism is not the problem since it does not exist. corporate oligarchy is the problem. capitalism has never been tried. I am a democracy guy. in order for real democracy to function a free market system is required. Thats not capitalism. thats a free market system. there is a subtle difference there which most people would miss. I will again repeat. Neither capitalism nor marxism nor communism nor socialism has ever existed. All of those governments were oligarchy pretending to be something as a con scam. Telling that simple truth gets one banned out of the Chat by either a capitalist or a socialist whos pissed you just said their pet ideology isn't real. It isn't. anybody who thinks that it is is accidentally playing for team corporate oligarchy as a tool. the ONLY system worth talking about is DEMOCRACY. how democracy HANDLES a FREE MARKET system is dynamic and interesting and NOT capitalism.

o. yes. no. yes. what? making change is not reliant on changing the money system one tenth as much as it is on changing the informational ecology. Going to a gold standard as an idea is a proof of ignorance, not a solution. Really the end game is we evolve out of money. To do that we evolve first new currencies and new economic strategies. this leads to economic singularity in about 50 years. If everyone is a millionaire how much you get depends on exactly the material valuation of that money. Which is to say that by the time money becomes obsolete everyone will live like the current millionaire. Tangible items to other tangible items? the real economy is about ideas, change the ideas and everything changes. the problem with the tangible economy is it does not change; its a static reality. you can't make a meaningful gold standard with only enough gold to represent on millionth of the economy. You can make a purely imaginal money system work; but it has to be subject to moral and ethical laws. This is about pinning down those moral and ethical laws and implementing them in new currencies; not trying to imagine a control freak impossible non solution because of the simplicity with which you go about thinking over the problem.

once again. there has never been a socialist or capitalist economy. in all instances such nations were oligarchies. using a mask and a con scam and telling their dupes and pwns that they were something other than oligarchy. the big hump to get over is that the USA oligarchy and the Soviet oligarchy are in on this lie against the rest of us TOGETHER. Neither of them was ever anything other than an oligarchy. both claimed some other system in order to have US fight over the ideals of THAT system while they secretly shafted us all playing a completely different game.

[-] 1 points by rulesdontapply (27) 3 years ago

Your post is retarded and so are you. You need Capitalism for a free market to exist.

[-] 0 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 3 years ago

nope. in fact capitalism always results in a slave market; due to market inequalities its a form of oligarchy. a free market system and capitalism are mutually exclusive. Isn't it funny and fun to have knowledge and factoids like those?

[-] 0 points by rulesdontapply (27) 3 years ago

First of all, your grammar is awful. Next, you're retarded. How does capitalism result in a slave market? Also, how can free market exist without a capitalism?

[-] 0 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 3 years ago

first of all, i don't care. second of all, i'm a genius with a 180 IQ. Capitalism always creates inequalities and exploits them and this results in a slave market. a free market means the market is rightly controlled and regulated by the people so that its free instead of evil. free may mean many different things to many people but when you call our current system a "free" market" thats orwellian double think. Its quite literally a slave market in that its exploiting third world labor to kill the middle class and thus keeping the sheeple in essence as wage slaves and maintaining caste inequality.

[-] 1 points by rulesdontapply (27) 3 years ago

First, you should care. With awful grammar, someone that supposedly has an IQ of 180 looks like a fucking retard. Next, a free market is regulated purely by supply and demand. There's no conscious entity controlling it, such as the people or the state. Capitalism is an economic system in which the means of production are privately owned and operated for profit, usually in competitive markets.(such as a free market)

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 3 years ago

purely by supply and demand? okay, that sounds fair. of course there is no real demand for the stock market exchange thats just a parasitic bubble. No demand for oil thats an archaic technology. I'm all for such a pure system. the problem is, its not supply and demand that runs your supposed capitalist system. Its the hidden agendas of corporations, which actually runs your system, and thats the ONLY reason why we still used oil as late as 1970.

[-] 1 points by kmanpdx (105) 3 years ago

This is really brilliant actually. Agree 100% on the stock market and oil industry and makes a perfect case in your argument. Neither highlight a free market system. Your examples highlight the rich manipulating the government with $$ and the poor with no choices. They have made supply and and manipulate demand by controlling supply!! It is one of the reasons America is screwed today unless this movement can fix it. You should fix your grammar, however! If you have do have a 180 IQ then you should realize how easy that is and how much more your message would be taken seriously. I don't have a 180 IQ, so if I made errors above, I'm OK right ;-)

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 3 years ago

i also have extreme dyslexia, and compensate for that pretty well aside from the grammar. i could fix it but... that wouldn't be stream of consciousness. I type rather fast for a hunt and pecker until i try to edit myself.

[-] 1 points by PandaMe73 (303) from Oakland, CA 2 years ago

Don't sell yourself short, your grammar is better than most.

Assuming legibility is not an issue, anyone pointing out textual errors in a debate just lost; it's the last bastion of those mental midgets who can't score points on the strengths of their ideas.

I have an MA in English and I say fuck the grammar police anyway, bunch of idiot fascists who cling to rules because they can't comprehend systems.

Oh, an thanks for all the information, it gives me something to chew on over the weekend :)

[-] 1 points by kmanpdx (105) 3 years ago

I get it and appreciate the stream of consciousness. Good friend of mine is dyslexic and the smartest guy I know personally. You actually sound a lot like him, BTW ;-)

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 3 years ago

I am all for a DEMOCRATIC FREE MARKET SYSTEM. Capitalism has never existed and is merely a con scam in the corporate oligarchy rigged casino. if it did exist, it could not exist in the same system with democracy the two are mutually exclusive; capitalism is another form of plutocracy and oligarchy.

[-] 1 points by rulesdontapply (27) 3 years ago

You can't be reason with.

[-] 0 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 3 years ago

sure i can. find some reason and spend some time in a textbook instead of running ideology programs you have been pwnd with.

[-] 0 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 3 years ago

o. yes. no. yes. what? making change is not reliant on changing the money system one tenth as much as it is on changing the informational ecology. Going to a gold standard as an idea is a proof of ignorance, not a solution. Really the end game is we evolve out of money. To do that we evolve first new currencies and new economic strategies. this leads to economic singularity in about 50 years. If everyone is a millionaire how much you get depends on exactly the material valuation of that money. Which is to say that by the time money becomes obsolete everyone will live like the current millionaire. Tangible items to other tangible items? the real economy is about ideas, change the ideas and everything changes. the problem with the tangible economy is it does not change; its a static reality. you can't make a meaningful gold standard with only enough gold to represent on millionth of the economy. You can make a purely imaginal money system work; but it has to be subject to moral and ethical laws. This is about pinning down those moral and ethical laws and implementing them in new currencies; not trying to imagine a control freak impossible non solution because of the simplicity with which you go about thinking over the problem.