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Forum Post: Only 1 Demand Includes All Others-Article V of the US. CONST.

Posted 2 years ago on Oct. 11, 2011, 12:29 a.m. EST by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

People are aware of lots of problems, that's good because then the probs can be targeted for solution NOT DEMAND, because the only a few demands at best can be made. We see the complexity and confusion that is created JUST AMONGST OURSELVES here on this message board. Imagine what onlookers think.

When protesters demand an Article V convention, anything can be dealt with at convention. It is just a matter of distilling the visible problems solution into an amendment that is acceptable to all states.

If protesters simply say, "We need article V of the Constitution, we need to amend and return constitutional government, Americans will love you and support you, even though they probably know less about Article V than you do. I'm not saying you know anything about it, but it is the constitution, they will trust in it.

Here's how the demands are dealt with in the process of conducting an Article V convention, which needs only to have 2 more states apply directly, or to have the public realize that congress is violating the constitution and has been doing it for a long time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_to_propose_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution "Congress acted preemptively to propose the amendments instead. At least four amendments (the Seventeenth, Twenty-First, Twenty-Second, and Twenty-Fifth Amendments) have been identified as being proposed by Congress at least partly in response to the threat of an Article V convention."

That is how afraid congress is of an Article V.

A man named BIll Walker sued all members of congress.

http://algoxy.com/poly/article_v_convention.html

Protesters need to take the list of demand home to their states, and find ways to make those issues visible in their state. Articulate the implications and consequences of the problem. Meanwhile, and all-the-while everyone in every state, with every third demand they discuss, needs to say, "We need an Article V convention:"

I'm betting that after a number of protesters study the facts and the constitution, then try to share strategy that will work, they will discover as I did, almost no one knows anything about Article V.

At that point protesters in states should arrange local parades all about educating the public about Article V. Not marches, those are for war, parades are for peace and celebration. We have an amazing social contract we can call upon, if only we will understand it and how to use it.

I'm serious.

32 Comments

32 Comments


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[-] 1 points by mutualminds (129) 2 years ago

Well said, I'll read more.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Perhaps a simple act of showing unity with the concept of the constitution by showing you recognize article 5 as the tool for defending it. Thread about it here.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/americans-unite-re-register-here-at-ows-forum-with/

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Strategy for unification and defense of the constitution.---

http://algoxy.com/ows/strategyofamerica.html

A web conference forming in the evenings.---

http://www.articlevmeeting.info/

[-] 1 points by oldjudge (2) 2 years ago

Right on. A convention is the only way to fix our government. And we don't have to wait for Congress! Any voter can participate in the people's convention. www.conventionusa.org

[-] 1 points by oldjudge (2) 2 years ago

Right on. A convention is the only way to fix our government. And we don't have to wait for Congress! Any voter can participate in the people's convention. www.conventionusa.org

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Written as one who knows!------

Our greatest barrier is media neglect and malfeasance disabling Americans from understanding each other preventing unification under the constitution much earlier. It is still present, but media is much more important now that the apparent effect of "cognitive infiltration" is upon us here, and elsewhere.---------- http://algoxy.com/poly/nwo_cognitive_infiltration.html

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Thank you very much oldjudge! I have registered there. I have a strategy to prevent ANY runaway convention fears, but have been unable to get the tea party, who is supposed to stand for the constitution (why do I think that?), but can find none of them that will rationally discuss it. Any ideas?

See the failed ballot initiative I sponsored in California this year.

http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/ballot-measures/failed-to-qualify.htm 1480. (11-0003)-Federal Constitutional Convention. Initiative Statute.

The infiltration of the nation has pre misinformed or dumbed down the populations. This needs alliance and unity to oppose.

[-] 1 points by bythepeople (56) 2 years ago

This could be the way to go. It would require a strong organization to coordinate it.

However, I seriously doubt you could get that many state legislators onboard. As others have stated, they are bought and sold to. This movement and its participants would be in serious jeopardy at all times if it is attempted.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, but you better understand the consequences.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

bythepeople wrote: This could be the way to go. It would require a strong organization to coordinate it.END Yes, if it were to be done that way. However, I cannot say that any organization I've found was free enough from agenda to support this. Meaning that citizen movements would have to do it. As far as your concerns for jeopardy, I don't think so. That is one of the best things about working reasonably with the constitution, its all lawful and any problem some faction creates that's past a point, creating jeopardy, should be addressable by law enforcement IF citizens are organized enough in their local environments. Relating to consequences: consider that I've authored the only web site on the planet that provides a feasible explanation for how 2, 1,350 towers went to the ground identically in 10 seconds apiece. All verifiable in some way. I built this site in 2003. http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html No consequences. Citizens are free to use information if they can find a place to do it that isn't staked out with nwo agents that psyop their efforts. Politicians and officials have made some kind of deal that exposes them to consequences if they go too far in exposure or activism.

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Realize that IF the people organize to compel the state, and do so half as noisily as they went after wall street, with echoing words about "stopping treason" with an article 5 convention. You'll find the legislatures not willing to oppose the people on this one, in these conditions, very much. Strategy here.-----

http://algoxy.com/ows/strategyofamerica.html

[-] 1 points by statusquobuster (8) 2 years ago

I urge all supporters of this much needed movement to use their critical thinking skills and seriously examine using the path to government reform the Founders gave us: the Article V convention option. It is obvious that relying on the current two-part plutocracy to institute true reforms to benefit the 99% is insanity. The convention option offers something totally new and clearly it has been opposed by Congress despite hundreds of state applications for a convention. The convention path, for example, would be needed to get the amendment that Dylan Ratigan is advocating, namely getting money out of politics. Learn a lot more at foavc.org, including many articles I have written.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Absolutely accurate from my experience. And the convention path may need Dylan Ratigan's proposal because an Article V convention is the ultimate form of democratic control. A flawed or controlled voting system cannot be tolerated. The critical thinking that really works for me is the realization that IF it is shown that the states have adequated applied for a convention, and congress doesn't move, THEN the effort will have forced the hand of the infiltration into government. We will learn whether or not the infiltration expects to somehow use a form of force to prevent Article V. Therein, we will learn how infiltrated our military is. At that point it will be absolutely clear that military intervention, recognizing ONLY the constitution at the top of the chain of command, after the peoples will is known through the states. This means that all activists that can see their causes effected through an Article V, need to organize in their state to apply pressure. This is much more manageable than national organization. When different states find each other pushing for the same thing, without being organized to do so, stand back.

[-] 1 points by Dost (315) 2 years ago

Dude, Interesting idea but idealistic and far-fetched. The fact of the matter is that most of the politicians in the states represent the power structure and do the bidding of the corporations and lobbyists for various groups and organizations. They would not take very seriously something like you are proposing--UNLESS ThIngs get really bad, and at that point, it could be an option. My take is that we need to educate people a lot more. At some point, you need a coherent analysis and a proclamation and demands. This means really understanding what we want. The list could go on forever but it should be boiled down to three demands: 1) Reform of Wall Street; 2) Reform of Federal Electoral Process; 3) Reform of tax structure.

To have the will of the people heard, We need to address these three items. The first one everyone agrees to. The Second I would think most on the progressive side would agree with e.g. public financing of elections; no advertising, debates instead; shorter election period; voting on sundays; paper trail of votes being cast; enough polling places; etc. The legislative process needs to be reformed as well, end the filibuster for instance. We could call this Electoral Bill of Rights. The third all on the Left agree with. The right won't agree and at this point, we let them go.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Dost wrote: "Dude, Interesting idea but idealistic and far-fetched."END Well, its true the constitution is idealistic and very far from what the nwo and military industrial complex want. Dost wrote: The fact of the matter is that most of the politicians in the states represent the power structure and do the bidding of the corporations and lobbyists for various groups and organizations.END There is cetainly some truth to that, but it is not totally true, and, in the political environment of an Article V convention, their actions against the articulated intentions of the constitution will be quite obvious. Only large groups of legislators would dare it in order to make an environment of legitimacy. Such is very risky because entire segments of incumbants would subject themselves to scrutiny in opposition to reasonable issues, lose credibility. It is very bad for a lot of people, and will get worse unless something drastic is done. No point in waiting.

[-] 1 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 2 years ago

You don't need the government's permission to start a new government, and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management Group of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves, and thus BEING the new government. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategic Legal Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:

http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures

Join

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/

if you want to support a Presidential Candidate at AmericansElect.org in support of the above bank-focused platform.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

atki4564 wrote: You don't need the government's permission to start a new government,END Perhaps not, but you do need authority and power. If your government is bound by the constitution agreed and founded by the several states, and that constitution grants a primary right to have a convention to amend calling states delegates, then it is a standing invitation to make a new government to replace the one we have, Article V. This very much needs to be done because the defacto military government left in place after the civil war, dominated by british arms manufacturer influence, has continued with the british empire and is conducting war on American citizens. It took a long while to get the goods on this. The Lieber code. There is a .pdf that you can download linked from this page that very simply lays it out. It does not make the british connection however. http://algoxy.com/poly/emergency_powers_statutes.html There are some other references to that on the page that do connect to britan. Article V is the answer.

[-] 1 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 2 years ago

Sorry, pass.

[-] 1 points by mindhawk (175) from Jefferson City, MO 2 years ago

I support this idea, I propose amendments as well and agree it is better to have the convention than to make demands, except to demand the convention.

How will we pick the representatives?

http://occupywallst.org/forum/my-proposed-demands-1-5of-23/

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

I've put this page together with facts about Article V.http://algoxy.com/poly/article_v_convention.html Unfortunately the answer to that is not there. That was one of my first questions too. A friend active in working for a convention explained what he though it should be and I think hes right. The answer uses the 14th and 9th amendment with the intent of the constitution to interpret Article V. The number of electorial votes of the electoral college for the state is the number of delegates the specific state would have.
They would be elected in general or special elections. Campaign debate would be held on government access channels and internet. The conventions would be on the internet most likely. State ballot initiatives are the way for citzens to compel state legislations to apply to congress for an Article V convention.

[-] 1 points by mindhawk (175) from Jefferson City, MO 2 years ago

Are you sure Fox news wouldn't successfully pump their own obstruction candidates? If enough republicans make it in, there is no way anything could get done. I want to believe we could get a room full of true patriots....but man I hate arguing with republicans.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Hmmmmmmm damm, you are correct, that could happen. There should be contingency, caveat. Actually, because of the nature of WHY an Article V is called, a great deal of it directly due to corporate media malfeasance, amonunting to treason, disabling America from unifying in support of the constitution, it would be logical for the citizens of the states to ask to forbid any corporate sponsership of candidates. We need and Article V convention now. CORPORATE FINANCE FORBIDDEN FOR ARTICLE V DELEGATE ELECTION CAMPAIGNS. Or, OMG, or, or, or, . . . the citizens demand ONLY one amendment, the Bill of Rights First Amendment is revised to include something that removes the media lock on truth. When voting on ratifications the state citizens vote no on everything but revising the First. That way there is no chance media can mislead. We vote for our own voice first. http://algoxy.com/poly/meaning_of_free_speech.html THEN, activists unite to define issues, and get national broadcast time to explain everything that needs explaining that can be explained, before Article V picks up again. Then media malfeasnace/treason won't matter anymore. Thank you for pointing that out. I had a feeling some time back that there would be a reason for the people to refuse more amendment than just the revision of the First Amendment. Such strategy also sets aside all fear of "runaway" convention. Sure it may take a little longer, but truth is soooooooooooo sweet to use for decision making, its worth the wait.

[-] 1 points by MiMi1026 (937) from Springfield, VA 2 years ago

I know a little about Article 5. I am reading up on it now. Thanks for this great information.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

MiMi1026, Lots of links to good resources about AVC here. http://algoxy.com/poly/article_v_convention.html

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Here is another page that has many answers for questions you might not think of. The implications of interpretation, the 14th amendment and the 9th, empower democracy within constitutional intent.---

http://www.foa5c.org/mod/resource/view.php?id=2

[-] 1 points by mindhawk (175) from Jefferson City, MO 2 years ago

I don't follow all this, maybe write it out more clearly in numbered steps?

I have wrestled a lot with media laws and amendments, trying to find a way to make Fox news illegal, or at least make it illegal to advertise itself as anything other than propoganda or a tabloid.

Ideally, before each of their programs there would be a 'propoganda' warning mandated by a committee of trusted journalists. But how do you choose that committee?

This goes back to one of the original problems of government, if a society cannot select its wisest people to make decisions, then the society is doomed.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

In 2003 I was writing about the media and civil lawsuits in order to preempt any further hijacking of America. http://algoxy.com/poly/media_lawsuit.html Not a totally obsolete notion because facts can be officialy articulated in lawsuits and expert opinions recorded, even if the courts are seriously complicit. Their decisions expose them for the 1%'ers that still believe we have constitutional courts.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

mindhawk wote: "I don't follow all this, maybe write it out more clearly in numbered steps?"END Okay, let me run it past you quickly so you can see the entire thing in one pass. 1) Movement consolidates demand for Article V. 2)Citizens supporters in states create ballot intiatives or demonstate in demand at state offices and capitals to get legislators to apply to congress for an Article V. 3) Congress begins to convene delegates. Guarding the citizens voice, and ability to share then form quality opinion, with some uniformity to be tested, only the First Amendment is accepted for revision by the public because the movement has warned them away from all but the 1st amendment and elections. 4)While this is happening an interim proposal for amendment is made regarding election systems to assure that the vote will be properly taken and counted. 5) Citizens decry any accelerated amendments which may be in corporate interests, nwo interests, etc. BEFORE the First Amendment is revised giving national mass media to activist interests that can show their proposals for information meet the criteria for public support on national level. Paint them as corporate attempts to do again what they already did with 50 years of extremely manipulative, deceptive and exploitive media dividing and disabling Americans from unifying in support of the constitution. 6) Ratification elections in states take place and AFTER Article V is used to make certain that speech needed for survival is shared and understood, revision of the 1st amendment, then national media is used perhaps 4 nights a week for 1 to 2 hours of primetime tv to expose the entire hijacking of constitutional government. This educates the citizens to the point where their appreciation of what has happened compels them to unify properly and be prepared for survival through a wider, set of amendments dealing with economy, environment, immigration etc. 7)Following the education of America, about a year maybe, delegates are reconvened to review a newly created structure of amendments that undo all the unconstitutional aspects inserted over the last century or so. The informed public will have vetted the proper insertion of amendment to reduce the amount of amendment putting fears of rampant amendment to rest. Voters will ratify and the nations focuses on recovery.

[-] 1 points by GinaLola (210) 2 years ago

Christopher Brown, You are a great guy full of great ideas. Why isn't this information posted on this site more often. I have strategic guerrilla boycotting plans that they don't pick up the lead on either and the answer is sitting right in front of them. I copied this paragraph and i will try to put it out there more often. One thing though, I am opting for a virtual Congress of the people direct democracy style so that we can take over the whole budget and every law and issue to really undo all of the damage that has been done.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Hey, thanks! Lots of stuff is lost in the infiltrational blur of the forum. I post this page which incorporated that last post as it was inspired here.

http://algoxy.com/ows/strategyofamerica.html

I support aspects of "virtual Congress of the people direct democracy style" but realize we will have to transition. Meaning we simply secure the voting system we have with amendment at an article 5, then stop corporate campaign finance.

Then deal with media by amendment. Free speech is abridged and freedom ofthe press too. There is no way any kind of democracy is going to work without solving that first. The web is too filled with cognitive infiltrations.

http://politics.salon.com/2010/01/15/sunstein_2/

and quasi autorities that are popular do not engage effective opinion making with the people. The media issue must be dealt with immediately at article 5.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

good call, nice explanation, we do need an article V convention.

I agree with and support this, and have added this thread to my organization- bomb- list


http://occupywallst.org/forum/corporate-oligarchy/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/thetruth-socialismcapitalismcommunismmarxism/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-versus-corporatism/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/no-war/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/help-me-understand/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-a-love-story/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/sociology/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/energy-101-solution/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/ethics/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/break-your-left-right-conditioning/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/nader-kucinich-and-paul/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/5-facts-you-should-know-about-the-wealthiest-one-p/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/i-am-homeless-joe-jp-morgan-chase-accidentally-for/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/can-we-end-the-fed/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-end-the-federal-reserve-and-what-do-you-replac/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/where-are-we-and-how-do-we-move-forward/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/things-wall-st-did-were-not-illegal/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/teaching-the-occupation/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-forum-needs-structure/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-not-your-personal-billboard-for-your-politi/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/systems-theory-primer/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/organize-inform-take-action-effect-change/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/better-website-needed/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-playing-the-devils-games/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/nonviolence-the-only-path/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-not-against-capitalism/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-is-not-about-political-stripe-it-is-about-bas/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/national-initiative-for-democracy/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-third-political-party-the-movement-of-the-middle/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/300-fema-camps/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-a-false-flag-operation/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-this-will-not-work/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/paradigm-shift-now/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-proposal-for-focus/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-the-bullshit-posts-and-get-organized/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/suggested-goals/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/oct-18-gao/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/naomi-klein-climate-change-fight-is-down-to-the-99/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/only-1-demand-includes-all-others-article-v-of-the/

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

When are those serious about rights and freedoms, including the dismantling of the military industrial complex and the federal reserve, while finding a new and equitable method of stabilizing the economy, going to realize that Article 5 was specifically designed to deal with a situation like this?------

A effort each evening to create a web conference to discuss Article 5 is beginning.--

http://www.articlevmeeting.info/

Comprehensive strategy.---

http://algoxy.com/ows/strategyofamerica.html