Forum Post: Does anyone ever "fight" for the wealthy?
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 12, 2011, 4:53 p.m. EST by April
(3196)
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Have you ever heard of anyone "fighting" for the wealthy?
Of course not. The wealthy have bought their representation in government and government is responsive to all of their needs and wants.
1% buys their representation, 99% are left with the scraps. Don't want your money. Just want my fair and equal representation.
I'm not in the 1% and I'm not left with the scraps. So where am I?
Have you ever heard of a hospital wing named in honor of a poor person?
Have you ever heard of a hospital being built without the labor of the 99%?
The tea party
ows from start has been democratic and all republicans do nothing but demonize the movement read the signs listen to the people and see tax rich get money out of politics end wars have never been backed by republicans tax cuts for middle class modernize roads and bridges invest in middle class not banking class by raising minimum wage thats the occupy wall street message
Like
Tea party
Election Reform.
I mean tea party fight for wealthy stop the fox spin
Agreed! We need serious election reform. To get the money out of the political system.
ows from start has been democratic and all republicans do nothing but demonize the movement read the signs listen to the people and see tax rich get money out of politics end wars have never been backed by republicans tax cuts for middle class modernize roads and bridges invest in middle class not banking class by raising minimum wage thats the oocupy wall sreet message
yes, of course, and they got paid for their labor, didn't they? Are you arguing in favor of the 1% being the creators of jobs?
being paid for labor isn't good enough.
we want RESPEKT
One segment doesn't function without the other.
Much as some want to congratulate the "individual successes" of rich people, it stands to reason that you can't ignore the "needs" and the contributions of people who work for you.
To give you an overly simplistic analogy: If I am a farmer and I own a donkey, I can either treat it well and get a better result, or feed and water it to the bare minimum and live with the result of that.
I agree. I grew up in a family business. My grandfather employed about 250 people in a factory. Each year the unions asked my grandfather if they could talk to his employees, and each year he said "yes" and each year his employees told the union "no thanks". Long into my grandfather's retirement he was still getting invitations from past employees to their family's events.
It will always be a debate of "what level". Is your donkey happier sleeping on a soft bed in the farmhouse? Or does sleeping in the barn on hay suffice?
Another discussion is supply/demand for workers. The whole concept of employers offering health care "benefits" started during WWII when workers, especially skilled workers were scarce. Now there is an oversupply of workers. Should I hire a worker at $15 per hour when there are 20 good workers telling me they will work for $12 per hour?
I agree. I grew up in a family business. My grandfather employed about 250 people in a factory. Each year the unions asked my grandfather if they could talk to his employees, and each year he said "yes" and each year his employees told the union "no thanks". Long into my grandfather's retirement he was still getting invitations from past employees to their family's events.
It will always be a debate of "what level". Is your donkey happier sleeping on a soft bed in the farmhouse? Or does sleeping in the barn on hay suffice?
Another discussion is supply/demand for workers. The whole concept of employers offering health care "benefits" started during WWII when workers, especially skilled workers were scarce. Now there is an oversupply of workers. Should I hire a worker at $15 per hour when there are 20 good workers telling me they will work for $12 per hour?
food and water built the Egyptian pyramids
Just curious, how much money do you spend in campaign contributions or special interests during an election cycle?
If you are happy with your repesentation in government, and you think you have a fair and equal voice in government, then I think that is wonderful for you. However, many people do not think that is the case for them.
I'm apolitical, and rarely vote which is certainly now a paradox because I am an FEC registered candidate for the Presidential election 2012. My candidacy seeks to ask, and answer just one question: "Should voters have the opportunity to VOTE on a revolution?"
I'm apolitical because all we have is "the power of the vote" and it is powerless. Our government is broken. Given this lack of power, I do what many of the "99%-ers" do - lay low, stay off the radar, take care of my family.
Here and there I donate $100. I'm not even sure why. In 2000 I donated to Nader and voted for him, thus helping Bush get elected. Our voting system is screwed up (another reason not to vote) - It should be "if my candidate doesn't get first place on the first round of counting, give my vote to XYZ in the second round". This would avoid the "Nader" effect of 2000, and also have more people voting for long-shot candidates and maybe some of them would actually therefore win.
http://www.JeffBlock2012.com
and I do know who I'm voting for in 2012 !
Thats very interesting. When you say your vote is powerless, I would say that puts you squarely in the 99%. I don't mean to speak for you or anything, just trying to say - it seems like we both agree that the political system is "screwed up". And if thats the case why should we not try to fix the political system to get all the money out. So that the voices of all citizens are heard fairly and equally, which is the way I think our democracy was meant to be.
we're on the same page. In 2008 we had a 57% voter turnout. The 43%, about 90 million voters did not vote. I'm guessing 75% of those didn't vote because the believe it makes little difference who is voted into a broken system. That is about 65,000,000 people, the voters I want to vote for a revolution. Most of the 120 million who did vote in 2008 believe "if we only elect the "right" politician(s), all will be well".
Time Magazine wrote that the Egyptian revolution was started NOT by those who were politically active, but by those who were apolitical and just fed up with the system!
So how do you feel about publicly funded campaigns and elections? Do you think this would fix the "screwed up" system!
I think the sticky issue is still Citizens United versus FEC. There's a lot of misconception out there. Citizens United is basically a film making group that sued the FEC because of a law that prevented them from showing a negative Hillary Clinton film within 30 days of an election. They sued under the First Amendment and won. But along with their victory, it opened the door to anyone spending any amount of money "on behalf" of a candidate. This is not a direct contribution to the candidate. But obviously "fuzzy".
So publicly funded campaigns and elections without reversal of Citizens United versus FEC would have maybe a little impact, but not much. I'm a marketing man, and a staunch supporter of the 1st Amendment. But the prohibitive cost of a campaign starts, not with marketing and advertising money, but with our antiquated election process - to get on ballots requires signatures of citizens. To get signatures requires a campaign organization with at least a few paid employees and hopefully some volunteers. It requires leasing an office. If we're talking about a Presidential campaign, it requires office & workers in 50 states. This is the internet age and we're still using an election system devised in the 18th century.
We really need a sarcasm font.
But back to the point- Agree there is probably opportunity to update some technology in the election system.
So first we get Citizens United overturned, next we pass Election Reform. See Fair Elections Now Act.
The US Army is basically working to protect the interests of American corporations, Just like the British Army was mainly to protect their merchants and companies during the early 20th century !
Agreed. Wouldn't it be nice for our men and women in the Armed Services to have a fair and equal voice in our government? Since they are the ones risking their lives for our country!
We must make a law that every bill by Senate and Congress has to be approved by a Jury of 20 common people, just like in Court. This would be the voice of common people !
We may need to go a little further than that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5kHACjrdEY
The New Tea Party licks your ballsack you kidding me?
OWS is next with their Flat Tax Scam...
http://occupywallst.org/forum/flat-tax-is-a-scam-fight-the-infiltrators-with-som/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-flat-tax-is-unfair/
We need to educate the people about the ILLUMINATI/ Dark Cabal Please
can we please expose the illuminati!! we need to expose the bloodlines at the top. the name of the real enemy should be announced!! people should be holding up signs with websites on them where the truth about our current global state can be found!!
The enemy is all those that use their wealth to buy and pay for their representation in government. Individuals and corporations. Who have co-opted the government as their own.
No shit?? in other werds the goddamn illuminati you ashole
Yea, the U.S. military are ordered by the gov't to fight and die for rich people all the time, mainly giant corporations and oil companies.
Agreed! Very good point!
And we deserve our representation! The problem with OWS is that the math is completely off. I am a member of the 99% and I understand that it's not the 1% in America that's screwing us. That number is more like .25% of the American elite! It's the 1% of the globe that screws us. It's the billionaires in the United States and the world that buy politicians. They are a lot less than 1%. Know your enemy! The following are the people that can afford to invest in political influence:
United States: http://www.forbes.com/forbes-400/list/
World: http://www.forbes.com/wealth/billionaires/list
Agreed. We deserve our representation. We need to get all of the money out of the political system. Money speaks too loudly and is drowning out the voices of the 99%. We need to solve this here first, then deal with the rest of the world.
Yes, high paid attorneys.
And they get what they want because the system is in their favor. That is why the rich keep getting richer.
The 1% have unfair influence in our government. Money is their tool. Money speaks too loudly in our government and is drowning out the voices of the 99%
Who fights for the wealthy? Apparently the NYPD...
Sad, but true.
Blackwater does.
They act on behalf of the wealthy. And they probably get everything they want.
because they get hired by the wealthy.
Yes. All working people fight for the wealthy every day. Their work permits the wealthy to prosper, to make a profit, and to stay in business. Their cumulative work produces value that far exceeds its price to business. Working people also pay taxes that build the infrastructure through and over which goods and services and businesses operate. It is not a matter of who is fighting for whom, and it should not be a fight at all. But working people should get a fair share, and the wealthy should pay their share for what they use. Say you drive a car, and you use the highway system. The company you work for benefits from your having the road to drive on to work, and your boss drives to work as well, so you both use the roads. Your company also owns 5,000 trucks to transport goods. The road benefits your employer more than it benefits you, and the taxes each of you pays should reflect the benefit you receive. It isn't about fighting for anyone or against anyone. It is about fairness and opportunity, about the big guy not having all of the playground to himself and leaving all the little kids crammed into a corner where there aren't any swings.
I totally agree with you.
I believe that much of the unfairness is due to the fact that most of us, our voices are not heard by our government.
To each according to his ability, from each according to his use. Sounds like capitalism.
well-stated!
Just curious why those who don't identify with the 99% are bothering to visit and post here
My definition of 1% are those that use their wealth to buy their representation in government. I think many of them are the 99% they just don't realize it.
Indeed. The wealthiest capitalists ran from Capitalism the second it did its second job, which is to penalize those who make bad economic choices. Champions of the wealthy like George W. Bush -- those who fight for the wealthy -- chose to socialize the entire cost of failure onto the backs of the entire nation:
http://thegreatrecession.info/blog/2011/10/saving-capitalists-from-capitalism-sustainable-economics/
--David Haggith
They act on behalf of the wealthy who they are beholden too. The 99% are left to clean up their mess.
there are plenty of people who will fight for the %1 thinking they will be them one day. Then there are mercinaries.(paid representives, PR firms). Then there are the people who worship the image of strength for its own reason. These people are cowards who listen to anyone who will hit them hard enough.
Then there are the people who see the humanity in the %1, while the %1 ignores the rest of humanities humanity.
they fight each other
After Octavius become sole Emperor,
the question of Succession of Roman Emperors afterword
lead to corrupt politics
Quote:
Empire Rulers (yelling)
the questions of
su-uccessions
made Emperors paranoid men
issued death orders
on mothers and friends
You and me could write on bad romans
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055370934&page=21
Yes April....Lobbyist and faux grassroots websites like citizens united and citizens for a responsible america....citizens for family values...etc all funded by kock,gingrich etc. It has been constant warfare against middleclass and poor ever since Reagan...ongoing...they are always fighting for the rich....they just do so..sneakily with dollars,gifts,deals and lobbyists.
My point exactly. The needs of the 1% are all met this way. Are you on board with publicly funded campaigns?
What about the faux grassroots organizations on left like moveon.org funded by Soros?
If you are going to criticize the undo-influence of the moneyed elite, please try not to be a partisan parrot while conveniently overlooking the undo-influence of certain moneyed elite simply because their goals may coincide with your own...it makes you sound like a hypocrite.
you heard of lobbyist, right?
actually, anyone who fights for capitalism, republicanism, liberalism, marxism, socialism, libertarianism, or etc is fighting for the wealthy as dupes in a con scam matrix of ideologies- all of which are equally wrong and equally devoid of useful science fact.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/dangers-of-unmoderated-forums/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/purple-dialogue/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/its-time-the-occupy-movement-as-a-whole-become-a-m/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/corporate-oligarchy/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/thetruth-socialismcapitalismcommunismmarxism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-versus-corporatism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/no-war/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/help-me-understand/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-a-love-story/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/sociology/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/energy-101-solution/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ethics/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/break-your-left-right-conditioning/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/nader-kucinich-and-paul/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/5-facts-you-should-know-about-the-wealthiest-one-p/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/i-am-homeless-joe-jp-morgan-chase-accidentally-for/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/can-we-end-the-fed/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-end-the-federal-reserve-and-what-do-you-replac/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/where-are-we-and-how-do-we-move-forward/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/things-wall-st-did-were-not-illegal/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/teaching-the-occupation/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-forum-needs-structure/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-not-your-personal-billboard-for-your-politi/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/systems-theory-primer/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/organize-inform-take-action-effect-change/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/better-website-needed/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-playing-the-devils-games/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/nonviolence-the-only-path/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-not-against-capitalism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-is-not-about-political-stripe-it-is-about-bas/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/national-initiative-for-democracy/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-third-political-party-the-movement-of-the-middle/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/300-fema-camps/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-a-false-flag-operation/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-this-will-not-work/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/paradigm-shift-now/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-proposal-for-focus/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-the-bullshit-posts-and-get-organized/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/suggested-goals/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/oct-18-gao/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/naomi-klein-climate-change-fight-is-down-to-the-99/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/only-1-demand-includes-all-others-article-v-of-the/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/occupy-eco-villages/
hey! maybe we can pool our money together and buy us a genuine Washington lobbyist. works for Halliburton and many many more.
"A life that I worked hard for. That's the beauty of this country. Everyone has the opportunity to achieve their desires and wants. In this country the only thing stopping you is you."
So...all those layoff's in Wisconsin were due to the people not taking advantage of the opportunities of the jobs they already had?? Or perhaps the fact is they voted in the right crony of the Corporate lobbyists who are putting their best political foot forward by trying to control everything?
WOW.....we have a lot to look forward to don't we???.
I am fortunate and grateful to have had opportunities, success, which affords me a very comfortable lifestyle. However, I know when I see things around me that are not right.
1% has unfair influence in government and money is their tool This is not right. Money speaks too loudly in our government. And it is drowning out the voices of the 99%
I fight for the 100%, so,....
All I ever hear is tax the wealthy. The wealthy are fighting to keep what they have all the time. I wouldn't say I was feeding off of scraps. I'm not wealthy but I live a comfortable life. A life that I worked hard for. That's the beauty of this country. Everyone has the opportunity to achieve their desires and wants. In this country the only thing stopping you is you.
your arrogant, idealistic view that everyone has the opportunities to achieve their desires is untrue
they can be stopped by poor public schooling, inability to pay for college, poor health, lack of support, or many other reasons.
It takes more than hard work to be successful. It also takes luck and natural ability.
you should be generous enough to except a higher tax rate, to help balance our budget and pay for the programs that build our country and support those less fortunate than yourself
I am neither arrogant or idealistic. What I don't like is having my hard earned money confiscated and spent on wars, given to foreign dictators or banks. I have yet to find anyone in government I can trust. So I advocate less government. I advocate the right to live my life as I choose. I advocate freedom, prosperity and peace.
If you think you are better off being taken care of by some politician who knows whats better for you, then the more power to you. Otherwise I suggest you make your own luck.
As for the sick and poor, I'm happy to help. I do so at every opportunity I can. Just as I suspect you do. I don't need government to force me to be benevolent.
I want wealthy people to keep their money! I want them to keep their money out of my government. I live a comfortable life too, and I have nothing against wealth. I just don't like when it is used in the political process to buy representation in government. It is unfair to the rest of us. Money speaks too loudly in our government. 1% buys their representation and it is drowning out the voices of the 99%
I have everything I need , like I said, I am grateful and fortunate to live very comfortably. However, I know when I see things around me that is not right. I know when I see there are problems in our country. There is lack of opportunity. Because wealth and power is concentrated in the 1% and the government is controlled by the 1% and is no longer responsive to 99% of the population.
You want to take the power away form big corporations and politicians. Then you want small government. If you have not done so already, i would suggest you check out Ron Paul.
I've looked at Ron Paul. Can't quite get on board with his end the Fed idea.
What I want is fair and equal representation in government. Take all of the money out of the political system and replace it with publicly financed elections.
When all of our voices are heard equally again, perhaps smaller government will result! But shouldn't we give 100% the opportunity to be heard first and let the 100% decide?
How would you choose who gets the money to campaign? I'd be concerned public money would be spent on very undesirable candidates. There is a moral hazard there.
I'd rather limit the amount of time candidates can campaign. Perhaps 2 to 4 weeks at most.
There have been many proposals before for election reform. People smarter than I. I just know that, in principle, it would have to be better than the insanity that we have now. See Fair Elections Now Act.
here here!
It's really only 1% of the 1% that are the crooks. Don't lump all of the 1% together. We have enough jail cells to house the 1% of the 1%. If no,t we can create some jobs building new jail cells.
I don't know the exact %. The 1% aren't criminals because what they do happens to be legal. It is simply unfair and and goes against the priciples that this country was built upon. A government by the people, of the people and for the people.
A large %, lets call it 99 for the sake of argument, of the population does not recieve their fair and equal representation in our government. Because money speaks too loudly in government and is drowning out the voices of the 99%
1% buys their repesentation, 99% are left with the scraps.
lol I see plenty of people here who aren't wealthy waging a keyboard war on behalf of the wealthy.
It's so precious, really, if a little sickening at times.
Maybe this will get them to think about that.
I don't wage a keyboard war on behalf of the wealthy, but I've had the opportunity to meet quite a few of them, one on one, having real conversations just like you wouldn't know they were wealthy. I think the one with the highest net worth is at about $2 billion.
Not one of them meets the profile vilified as "the 1%". Not one of them sits in their board room plotting how to destroy America. But YES, several of them were/are incredibly politically connected. One of them regularly loaned his jet to diplomats when a jet with our country's markings just wouldn't work. Many of them make/made regular visits to Washington D.C. ALL of them have/had some rather large charitable interest(s).
I think we are barking up the wrong tree. The 1% do buy their politicians. Why? because it can be done. If we change the system, there will still be crooked politicians, but we can create a system which has "We the People" directly participating and have a system that directly reports to "We the People". But meanwhile some think shouting louder is going to bring about change...
http://www.JeffBlock2012.com
The concept of the 1% wasn't necessary to vilify. It comes out of a statistic - 1% of the American population owns 42% of the financial wealth, while 80% of the population only owns 7%.
http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/distribution.png
It's an illustration that the American Dream has died for all but a few of us.
People have come on here and said things like: LEAVE THE BANKS ALONE! Really? Tell AIG to leave BOA alone, then:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/08/us-bankofamerica-aig-lawsuit-idUSTRE7772LN20110808
When financial crime is committed, the guilty need to be prosecuted and if that doesn't happen, the 99% need to speak up and protest.
I agree - if a crime has been committed, it should be prosecuted, but that's another whole discussion about the dysfunction of our legal system.
But, what I'm about to say puts me in a tiny minority. I think the American Dream dying has less to do with jobs going to China, and less to do with the 1%/99% discussion, and much more to do with capitalism being victim to it's own success. Capitalism rewards efficiency, and no human can be as efficient as a machine and/or computer. Everyone can visualize the assembly line worker being replaced by a robot, but few understand that the factory middle manager with a computer is now doing the job of 10 middle managers just 20 years ago.
I recently re-read Kurt Vonnegut, Jr's 1952 novel "Player Piano" about a society where machines do all the work - fascinating book. We may not be quite there yet, but we're on the way. I don't have the answer to this question: what if we simply don't need everyone to work to provide ALL the goods and services needed by our society?" And, "is it just a theory that a capitalistic economy grows to provide (good) jobs for everyone?". And yes, the 1%/99% argument is in part because the 1% OWN the productivity gains, while the 99% merely rent out their labor(s). With all our productivity gains why aren't we ALL working 20 to 25 hours per week, and playing with our kids more and going to the beach more?