Forum Post: Who does OWS endorse for President?
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 12, 2011, 10:30 a.m. EST by IWantFreeStuff
(119)
from New Orleans, LA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Which candidate does the OWS support? Why?
the OWS is not about any politician. Any one that doesn't get that is supporting something they know nothing about.
How can the OWS expect to have any political clout without endorsing a candidate?
It's not about electing a politician. It's not a political football for the MSM, talking heads or politicians to play with.
Watch this, a discussion by people who are actually involved in this movement and not Internet warriors. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nO9oMV-RXRU&list= Skip ahead to the 3 minute mark, thats when the discussion begins.
Watched the whole thing. Good stuff. Note that the OWS spokespersons said it is long term and eventually they may have a party and they may engage in the political process. I thought everyone who was victim to the crash (and grid-locked gov't) was welcome. What about people who can't camp because they have small children but do visit and participate in their city, and contribute constructively to the movement through word of mouth, adding value to this and other forums in good faith. Are we second class? Or, is this really a flat, inclusive organization? Don't we want to expand membership and participation and up awareness? Why then refer to online participants as somehow not as real as the rest?
Revolutions don't usually support one candidate of the current system for president. I'm not saying OWS is a revolution but that would be sweet.
Like this: http://occupywallst.org/forum/one-main-demand/
We support direct action. We don't need politicians to create change. We don't need more broken promises and we're tied of being spectators.
That would indicate a direct democracy - something that the USA has never been. We are a republic (thank god)
could you elaborate on the type of direct action you plan to take to effect change?
There's an #OWS election process here: http://occupywallst.org/forum/come-to-the-nyc-general-assembly-on-10-15-12-to-st/
There's a draft Declaration here: https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
Peace.
Groobiecat
"reinstitution of the Works Progress Administration and Civilian Conservation Corps" are you kidding me!? Do you people know any history at all? Those programs were a complete failure.
Groovieat.....read FDR's Follies. The economic evidence is well documented and footnoted in that volume.
Insightful, inescapable conclusions--all without facts or basis! Thanks for the feedback.
Peace.
Groobiecat
[ There's an #OWS election process here: http://occupywallst.org/forum/come-to-the-nyc-general-assembly-on-10-15-12-to-st/ ]
[ There's a draft Declaration here: https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/ ]
Stop fishing... Either get involved, head down to an occupation and see what is happening for yourself or sit back and continue to vote and see where that gets you...
Right. http://occupywallst.org/forum/one-main-demand/
What are you going to to ensure change happens in our political system?
Revolution is a pretty good way to ensure change happens in the political system.
ows from start has been democratic and all republicans do nothing but demonize the movement read the signs listen to the people and see tax rich get money out of politics end wars have never been backed by republicans tax cuts for middle class modernize roads and bridges invest in middle class not banking class by raising minimum wage thats the oocupy wall sreet message
You will be very disappointed if you believe this is a left or right thing.
tax rich get money out of politics end wars read the signs talk to the people and see not one republican view has been supported so stop trying to divide ows
Please Watch this video. It's a discussion by people who are actually involved in this movement and not Internet warriors. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nO9oMV-RXRU&list= Skip ahead to the 3 minute mark, thats when the discussion begins.
Maybe after you will realize that this is bigger then Democrat vs Republican.
stop trying to divide ows
Stop trying to turn it into a political football to play with.
dont need to. republican have demonized the movement so much theres no way ows will support the republican view
Just to add, the most extremist right wing group has a lot in common with the OWS movement. One of the big issues and reasons why these protests are happening is because of the massive bank bailouts... Wasn't that the reason why the Tea Party took off ?
no because obamas a nigger
Oceanweed:
Let me be perfectly clear. Racist comments are NOT welcome in this thread. I am trying to have an intelligent conversation. Comments such as this do nothing to further any one's agenda. They only serve to make you look uneducated. Please delete this comment.
Oceanweed if you want to discuss your POV that the Tea Party was based on racism, go for it. There might even be a case made for it. But that language is unacceptable. I'd rather hear you tell me you fucked my mother than see that word.
Please don't be so ignorant. I'm not saying OWS is a party affiliated movement but I am curious as to whom you'll vote for come election time.
And I'm not voting Obama either but it has NOTHING to do with the color of his skin.
obama no choice
I don't think you will get many of the OWS protesters to say he is a nigger but most would agree that he sucks ass as a president.
The Republican talking heads and MSM have demonized the OWS movement. Most Republicans don't know what to make of it. Remember, it's their children out there protesting too.
(side note) I'm not implying it's all children out there so please no one read to far into that comment. =)
there not taliking heads these are congressman and presidental canindates stop the fox spin
Yes, some of the spoiled brats in Washington have been demonizing the OWS protesters and movement. That's another reason why these protests are going on. Because ( all ) of our politicians are out of touch with reality and nothing more then corporate shills willing to destroy this country... As long as lobbyists keep throwing piles of money at them.
stop blaming both sides as equal you are misleading
Who cares what side is less wrong ?
Dude I'm a progressive, extremist left ! I'm on your side, but this is not about politics.
This is not a political movement. This is not a left or right issue. This is not a religious issue. This is not about Christianity, Buddhism, Muslim, etc. This is about our economy. It is about removing the ability for our economy to govern our people. Currently we live in a state where the people with the most money are allowed to make the rules they want by simply 'donating' to the person that makes the rules. It does not matter who is elected. This is the system we will elect them into. We have to remove the ability of the wealthy to buy laws and return the government to the people. Vote for whoever you want.
How do you intend to remove the ability of the wealthy to buy laws and return the government to the people?
I would recommend continuing with the protest movement, gathering our peaceful and civil strength and coupling that with the very real threat of gathering our resources and fighting the Banks directly until the allow the Government to enact laws that forbid the way the government is run now. I propose that we ALL stop paying our mortgages, credit cards, student loans, car payments, etc. and wage economic war against the banks. Pull your money out of the stock market, big banks, 401K, etc. Let them fail. Yes, I am proposing a forced run on the banks with the intent to bankrupt the stock market. If we do not fight this power now, we may never have the chance again. We are already headed for a market melt down. The last time the income disparity was as high as it is now was the 1920's just before the Great Depression. We can not continue like this. So spread the word, protest peacefully and with civil disobedience, and fight the banks with our only weapon they will understand, OUR MONEY...
ows from start has been democratic and all republicans do nothing but demonize the movement read the signs listen to the people and see tax rich get money out of politics end wars have never been backed by republicans tax cuts for middle class modernize roads and bridges invest in middle class not banking class by raising minimum wage thats the oocupy wall sreet message
Oceanweed, I love your passion. But, despite your assertion there are in fact a lot of Republicans that don't listen to the propaganda distributed by Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, HNN, etc. They can identify with the lead issue of removing the Capitalists ability to buy the laws they want and pay to block the ones they don't.
name a republican leader
The leaders are pawns of the Banks on both sides of the aisle. Don't identify with them. Don't fall into the divisive trap of trying to make this a political issue. Once we rid our government from the control of the banks then we can have political conversations on how to recover. Until then, all the talking heads are going to say is what the banks want to hear.
With all respect, you don't think that it already is a political issue that our government is being controlled by the wealthy?
I should clarify, I think it is a political issue. However, it is not a Democrat/Republican issue. In a quick response I will say that we need to end our Capitalist Republic and return to the Democratic Republic our government was founded on.
And what the banks TELL them to say also! Keith Obermann is the best resort for unbiased reporting. He gives his opinion only.
ows from start has been democratic and all republicans do nothing but demonize the movement read the signs listen to the people and see tax rich get money out of politics end wars have never been backed by republicans tax cuts for middle class modernize roads and bridges invest in middle class not banking class by raising minimum wage thats the oocupy wall sreet message
Oceanweed, you said that already... If you are going to c/p please at least clean up your post into complete sentences so it is easier to read.
no because you dont belong in ows
I am a 34 year old father of 3 boys. My house is 52 months into foreclosure from Bank of America. I have never had Health Insurance. I had to drop out of college after my wife lost her job as a Restaurant Manager to start a small courier company that netted our family 8K a year for the last 5 years. My roof is leaking, my A/C and heater are failing, my appliances are all broken in some way, I have leaking pipes held together with plummer's puddy, my Septic system is failing and I have a warrant for my arrest because I can not afford to fix it. I am fed up. I am the 99%...
Don't be divisive. The 99% belongs to everyone who has felt the lash of the whip from the 1%.
thats why you should get behind my demands
I did not say I was not behind them. But, there timing is wrong. We have to first rid ourselves of the influence of the 1% on our government before we can make sweeping and much needed change.
that will take years ows is for right now people are hurting now they dont have jobs barley supplying food for their families and you will need both sides to vote which no republican will endorse they think the movement ia mob lets get real
Everything takes time. Thomas Paine wrote "Time makes more converts than Reason." You have to realize that the changes you make wont happen either. Voting this or that politician into office will not change anything. We have been trying that for decades now. It's time for the People to Revolt and fight the Banks. Once their influence has been removed and our officials are no longer being paid by them to enact laws they want, then we can have the changes you point out.
so whos your official
I voted for Obama for his social reforms. I believe that our Education Systems and Medical Systems are rights of men. I believe that they should not be governed by the dollar. If everyone were to receive basic health care like every other industrialized nation, and a free college education like most other industrialized countries then we would be in a far better place. I also believe in a few other 'leftist' views like equal rights for people without discrimination based on sexual orientation, religious tolerance, and ending the war on drugs. However, I am also a large supporter of defending freedoms like the 2nd Amendment.
And really? Was McCain/Palin any real choice. How much worse would we be had we let those two idiots steer the ship off the cliff?
Here is the truth.
There is no right to health care. You earn enough to pay for it. Do you really want a doctor cutting open your chest who earns minimum wage?
There is no right to an education. The government has no business giving away educations. If you want one, go out and earn the money to buy one, or get a scholarship. This country doesn't need any more lawyers. We need more welders and ditch diggers.
so true I digress
thats the type of comments that give the media right to assume we have no clear message republicans are dividing our movement
The banks are telling the media that there is no clear message. They don't want our clear message to get out. The media is owned by the vary corporations and banks that want to keep control of the government. Don't you see? Stop caring about what the media says. Start caring about the message to retake the government from the 1%.
what is your so called message because you are not reading the signs or talking to the people who call for tax cuts for middle class modernize roads and bridges invest in middle class not banking class by raising minimum wage thats the oocupy wall sreet message
You and I have had this conversation several times. Sometimes I think you are a bot just sent to randomly post on this forum. I see the message of the 99% is to kick the 1%'s ability to buy laws from the government that only serve them. Once we have removed the political influence of the 1% from the government then we can address the issues of roads, tax reform, and investment in the middle class.
its not 1% anymore havent you heard so many republicans have forced themselves in our movement that we are now the 47% who dont pay taxes and this is true ows wants to tax the rich so go join the tea party
I am on your side... Why are you trying to wedge a divide in this issue?
im trying to form a clear message before we lose the energy and it gets cold
There is a clear message: Don't let the 1% buy our Government!
watch the news listen to both parties and see what message there getting out of the movement
How many times do I have to tell you that the News you are speaking of is controlled by the 1%. Of course it is not going to get the right message out. They don't want the right message out! I do watch the news by the way. They are more concerned with whether or not Michael Jackson's doctor killed him or not than they are with this fantastic movement. They want to distract us. They are only propaganda machines for the 1%.
GeoffH, you are absolutely right. Oceanweed cannot think normally after being raised among alpha male competivity and relying upon leadership to think of a better world.
its people inside the movement who want to keep us unclear by blaming both sides equally
This movement will get swallowed up in a second if we endorse a candidate. Don't be dense.
No one...The whole point must be a rejection of a corrupt and fundamentally undemocratic political order...
No one...The whole point must be a rejection of a corrupt and fundamentally undemocratic political order...
Not anybody who is running, thats for sure.
I like Cornel West---I wish he would run. I certainly don't presume to speak for anyone but me.
OWS is not a political party.
OWS is not a political organization.
OWS does not support any president or politician.
OWS is here to bring attention to wallstreet and its corrupters. #OWS is here to make the rest of the country (who don't know) that,that the politicians in your city, your state,On The Hill and in the Whitehouse are brought out by the wallstreet corporations...dem and repugs alike.
I've read some of your discussions MiMi, and am a bit surprised that you would resort to name calling. I'll write it off to habit. ("repugs")
Here's my question to you, if you care to respond.
If the OWS is not willing to participate in the political arena, how are any changes going to be made.
I am not the brightest bulb in the pack at times, but it seems to me, that if the OWS wants to change anything, they either have to do it by political means, or force.
Since I don't see any evidence that this is a movement of violence, that leaves politics as a method of affecting change.
Help me understand please.
There is a third option Iwantfreestuff. It is to wage a bloodless war by fighting the Credit System. United, the 99% need to refuse the Credit System and bring the Banks to their knees so they will relinquish control of the Government back to the People. We need to stop paying our mortgages, car loans, insurance, medical bills, student loans, etc. We need to pull our money out of the Stockmarket, bonds, 401k's, etc. We need to show the Banks that We stand against their corrupt system of Capitalist Governance and that we want our Democratic Republic back. We do this not to get rid of Capitalism, or to punish the wealthy with new taxes, or to bring in any kind of Socialism. In fact we do this to remove Socialism for the wealthy 1% and have them return to the Capitalistic economy we live in. But, Capitalism is not our system of Government. So We the People have to rise up and fight this Financial Revolution. We have to play chicken with the economy on the brink of destruction and force the Banks and their Corporate pawns to leave our Government alone. Then and only then can we can return to the Democratic Republic we once were and cast off the noose of the Capitalistic Republic we are now.
{We need to stop paying our mortgages, car loans, insurance, medical bills, student loans, etc.} You first. I've worked too hard to chance what I have.
{We need to pull our money out of the Stockmarket, bonds, 401k's, etc.} I've already done that, for the most part. I invested in silver and have done well so far. I am still divested somewhat though.
{We do this not to get rid of Capitalism} I'm very encouraged to read this.
You realize how many people you would have to gather the support of, before your boycott could have any significant effect? Where do you plan on keeping your assets, if not in a bank? Are you going to stash piles of cash under your mattress? If so, you are still keeping your assets in a bank. The federal reserve bank. So say you convert your assets to metals, as I have done by and large. You are still supporting the banking industry. You paid dollars for the gold/silver, and a premium for the transaction.
Even if you lived the Amish lifestyle, you would still need to pay property taxes. I don't know about your state, but Louisiana won't accept produce as payment.
No. If this is the plan, then I don't expect to see any changes brought about by OWS. If, however, y'all could mobilize a voting base and effect a presidential election, then y'all would have made a real difference and people would listen to you.
My Opinion only.
The political theater is in the pocket of the 1%. They buy and sell law and legislature like commodities on the trading floor. I vote! I will Vote! But our best hope is to put economic pressure on the banks to remove their control over the government so that reforms can be passed that prohibit such influence again.
ows from start has been democratic and all republicans do nothing but demonize the movement read the signs listen to the people and see tax rich get money out of politics end wars have never been backed by republicans tax cuts for middle class modernize roads and bridges invest in middle class not banking class by raising minimum wage thats the oocupy wall sreet message
none of the above
So you refuse to take part in the electoral process? Why then would you protest anything if you are not willing to try to effect any change? I'm confused.
I have taken part in removing a republican senator and republican congressman from office in my state. I will likely become a delegate again and certainly will vote. But I refuse to vote for the lesser of 2 evils. So I probably will throw my vote away once again by voting for Ron Paul, the only honest man there is, that is running.
Thank You for your response.
I'm voting Ron Paul too but don't think of it as throwing away your vote! Spread the word! :) He actually has integrity.
no one, so far
There is still time to decide.
Ron Paul !
At the end of the day, the only way we shall see any meaningful change is through the political realm. Marching, demonstrations, civil disobedience all have their place, but laws come from legislators, who get picked to legislate. The trick there is how to do this. How do we get enough voters to agree with OWS?
No one.
I don't think it supports on candidate.
I know we can eliminate the Republicans. They support big biz and are NOT afraid to say it. The "SYSTEM" itself does not work.
Troll Alert. "IWANTFREESTUFF, give me a break.
I don't resort to name calling. I try to discuss intelligently. If that means I get called a troll, so be it.
the OWS is not about any politician,its about a level playing field for all
If you're tired of trolls, please help get the new forum rolling at http://www.TheMultitude.org & www.occupyR.com.
Known Trolls include: oceanweed
How about the candidate who promises to put a banker in every pot. (ht Conax on Zerohedge)
Perhaps OWS should look into finding a presidential candidate another way. Check out www.americanselect.org - Americans Elect - a grass roots approach to finding our next leader. Our problem is that the current national leaders are tied to the political inertia associated with the two party system. Perhaps it is time to break the cycle.
Us. http://occupywallst.org/forum/one-main-demand/
The danger to this movement that an “alliance” with the reactionary fraud that is the Democratic Party presents cannot be overstated. Working from within that organization should not even be contemplated until the political establishment has made many SOLID concessions. Their rhetoric, in other words, should be ignored.
Actually, if this system of political power, based as it is on two institutionalized “parties” of the state (Those two “parties” are supported by repressive ballot-access laws in most states. Since they owe their position in government substantially to rule of law, they are official organs of the state.), concedes anything in the way of genuine reform, it will only be to keep the better part of their system of merciless plunder intact. Therefore, I would agree that cooperation with the Democratic Party is not the way to go.
Moving beyond left and right is a matter of political necessity, as is moving beyond a mindset that cannot transcend the rigid mental boundaries that have been drilled into the collective American mind be the sham (official) “two-party” system. The American people, from all political traditions, need to understand that the brutal parasites who control Washington care absolutely nothing for ideology, apart from that “ideology” which serves their selfish interests. In fact , it is unknown what a two-party system based on democracy would look like. Likely the economic interests of ordinary Americans would be better protected in a democracy.
OWS is Being The Change We Want To See In The World.
There is no room for the old, broken, collapsing paradigm of the dying current system, and therefore no point endorsing some legacy of it.
The current government and monetary systems must go, and what We Want To See In The World replace them.
Who would be endorsing? I am amased at how Occupy works. Would like to have your input on the movement to understand it better to be able to answer for example who is endorsing. And how to decide about it. Could you answer 10 questions, please. Happy to share results if you are interested. Please, take some time for it: Thank you! http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/Q3NF7QB
We do not signify with any candidate but i think ron will probably the best voice for us.But like others will tell you were not about politicians
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WibmcsEGLKo&list=FLrEgPBDSLh9sjNHT5vBs8vQ&index=3
sorry. I don't do videos. No speakers, slow connection.
The video is very powerful.If you have the chance have a look.
Speech from Charlie Chaplin's 'The Great Dictator'
I'm sorry but I don't want to be an Emperor, that's not my business. I don't want to rule or conquer anyone. I should like to help everyone if possible, Jew, gentile, black man, white. We all want to help one another, human beings are like that. We all want to live by each other's happiness, not by each other's misery. We don't want to hate and despise one another. In this world there is room for everyone and the earth is rich and can provide for everyone.
The way of life can be free and beautiful. But we have lost the way.
Greed has poisoned men's souls, has barricaded the world with hate; has goose-stepped us into misery and bloodshed.
We have developed speed but we have shut ourselves in: machinery that gives abundance has left us in want. Our knowledge has made us cynical, our cleverness hard and unkind. We think too much and feel too little: More than machinery we need humanity; More than cleverness we need kindness and gentleness.
Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost.
The aeroplane and the radio have brought us closer together. The very nature of these inventions cries out for the goodness in men, cries out for universal brotherhood for the unity of us all. Even now my voice is reaching millions throughout the world, millions of despairing men, women and little children, victims of a system that makes men torture and imprison innocent people. To those who can hear me I say "Do not despair".
The misery that is now upon us is but the passing of greed, the bitterness of men who fear the way of human progress: the hate of men will pass and dictators die and the power they took from the people, will return to the people and so long as men die [now] liberty will never perish. . .
Soldiers: don't give yourselves to brutes, men who despise you and enslave you, who regiment your lives, tell you what to do, what to think and what to feel, who drill you, diet you, treat you as cattle, as cannon fodder.
Don't give yourselves to these unnatural men, machine men, with machine minds and machine hearts. You are not machines. You are not cattle. You are men. You have the love of humanity in your hearts. You don't hate, only the unloved hate. Only the unloved and the unnatural. Soldiers: don't fight for slavery, fight for liberty.
In the seventeenth chapter of Saint Luke it is written: "The kingdom of God is within man" Not one man, nor a group of men, but in all men; in you, the people.
You the people have the power, the power to create machines, the power to create happiness. You the people have the power to make life free and beautiful, to make this life a wonderful adventure. Then in the name of democracy let's use that power, let us all unite. Let us fight for a new world, a decent world that will give men a chance to work, that will give you the future and old age and security. By the promise of these things, brutes have risen to power, but they lie. They do not fulfil their promise, they never will. Dictators free themselves but they enslave the people. Now let us fight to fulfil that promise. Let us fight to free the world, to do away with national barriers, do away with greed, with hate and intolerance. Let us fight for a world of reason, a world where science and progress will lead to all men's happiness.
Soldiers! In the name of democracy, let us all unite!
. . .
Look up! Look up! The clouds are lifting, the sun is breaking through. We are coming out of the darkness into the light. We are coming into a new world. A kind new world where men will rise above their hate and brutality.
The soul of man has been given wings, and at last he is beginning to fly. He is flying into the rainbow, into the light of hope, into the future, that glorious future that belongs to you, to me and to all of us. Look up. Look up.
The republican candidate
Which Republican candidate and why?
Seems like there will probably be only 2 candidates. A Democrat and a Republican. If this were the case I personally would have to go with them, Dem. Only because they seem more in tune with the OWS. Republicans have shown their ture colors the last 12 years and they are for the rich.......the 1% and don't even give the other 99% a chance(excpet when it's time to vote). Even health Care they would not support. All the politician get FREE healthcare........DEM's and REPBU's alike. It's just wrong. At least the Dem's tried to get us healthcare. Not only that but the Republicans have all spoken out against the OWS. I think it's a personal decision and I agree that the OWS shouldn't be about a party.
I do agree that its not about a party though. Who will u vote for?
As a lifelong Democrat, I have to respectfully disagree. I'm not stating that either side is to blame but the Democrats have done just as much harm. The middle class taxpayer pays for all the "free" government programs. Democrats have issued big business bailouts and raised the debt ceiling too, neither of which help the inflation rate of our currency or the debt of our nation. Maybe they felt they had too because of what situation they were left with but the bottom line is that we have to fix the underlying issues and stop with temporary fixes that hurt the middle class.!
I have to agree however I'm still voting for the Democrates. They at least make sence and they try for the Middle Class.
Thank You for your response.
I would like to ask you this. Who pays for that 'free' health care, and how does that correlate to corporations being hesitant to hire new workers right now?
They do not and will not support any candidate, that isn't the purpose.
Once again. How can you expect to make any gains if you are unwilling to participate in the political process?
This is just my opinion, neither I nor anyone else here speaks for OWS as a whole, but here goes:
I'm gonna steal some of Matt Taibbi's words so I can make this quick:
Right now, OWS is, quote ".... showing the public at large that the movement against Wall Street has stamina, resolve and growing popular appeal."
They're raising awareness. Is it going to go any further than that? I do not know, remains to be seen. But right now, they've started a conversation for average working people that was not happening before. Perhaps apathetic, non-voting people are going to get involved in the political process again. Perhaps politicians will realize they need to take into account the concerns of ALL their constituents. Perhaps at the right time, OWS will form a third party or support a candidate, but right now, that isn't what they're trying to do. Dems/Repubs two sides of the same coin.
Interesting answer. I'll mull it over.
keep obama
Why?
Please don't. Bailouts and our rising national debt inflate our currency and hurt the middle class taxpayer. If you want your savings and assets to be worth something please don't keep Obama. Oh and in addition, I previously voted for him last election thinking he would bring our troops home but he hasn't. We can no longer afford that either.
Too premature at this point, although I would be VERY leery about supporting Obama given all the money he has gotten from Wall Street in terms of political contributions..
I completely agree.
I understand.
I get the feeling most ppl in this OWS movement are split like this:
Obama - 60% Ron Paul - 30% Nobody - 10%
btw, you should know that that does not represent a majority of American voters.
thank you for expressing your impressions.
Ron Paul
Why?
He has an impeccable voting record in Congress of voting against our wars, against TARP/bailouts, against Congressional pay increases, and in favor of auditing the FED,which proves to me he's against Bernacke, big banks and the poor business practices of the big businesses. He also wants to bring our troops home. Those wars are costing us too much money that we don't have.
Unfortunately, [or maybe fortunately], Herman Cain has already revealed that he's a disrespectful unqualified stupid fool. Remember his remark about knowing the name of a president of a foreign country, and he said "ooz-beki-beki-beki-beki-stan-stan" ? Wrong Answer ! And contemptuous of foreigners besides, which is just the type of thinking which got us into so much trouble !
OH. You mean like Obama telling us that he had campaigned in all 56 states?
How about Clinton not having sexual relations with that woman?
You see. . . You really stuck your foot in your mouth when you resorted to name calling. Herman Cain is far from stupid. He has successfully run mufti-billion dollar corporations.
Therefore I will dismiss your answer. Thank You for taking the time to try to form an intelligent response.
Trump also wanted to run for president and made a ton of money in business... Does that make him smart? NO. His tactics, "inherit a lot of money."
I have no doubt that Donald Trump is a very intelligent person. That doesn't mean that I like him. Calling people names does nothing to advance your opinion with others.
Herman Cain recently stated that Alan Greenspan was his favorite Federal Reserve chairman. He was an absolute disaster and may as well stated Bernacke. If one votes Herman Cain, he or she will definitely be getting more of the same.
So, if he is indeed a smart person, why did he say that "ooz-beki-beki" thing ? What is he revealing about himself and his attitude toward foreigners when he says that ?
Look Freewheel:
So I understand that you don't support Cain. Can you intelligently articulate who you DO support and why?
A person who mouths something like "ooz-beki-beki-beki-beki-stan-stan" has called that into question, hasn't he ?
And, I tend to support Ron Paul as a candidate for the Presidency. He has consistently discerned correctly the results of the so-called "Global War On Terror", and he seems to know why we ought never to have commenced it. He has shown that he understands the Constitution of the United States, and he seems sincerely willing to defend it. That may sound a bit vague, this is being typed during my lunch break, if you must have more details, I'll likely be signed on later, & by then could have a few more details. In the meantime, you might have a look at any of the articles he has written & had published by
http://www.antiwar.com
Thank You for an intelligent answer. It was not vague at all. Just took a bit of prodding to get it out of you.
We need an Independent candidate who isn't a democrat or a republican. Someone who isn't owned by corporations or Wall Street.
I'm a Ron Paul supporter at this point.
Any suggestions?
Ron Paul. Although currently running on the Republican ticket, he ran as a third party candidate in the late 80s. He's not your typical candidate! :)
He's not at all owned by big businesses, Wall Street
or other facets of the government.
What do y'all think of Herman Cain? He could be the first black President.
Herman Cain was the head of one of the Federal Reserve banks (I think in the midwest somewhere). While he may have been a successful businessman, this does not take away from the fact that he has been a contributor to the economic problems we have now via his role with the Fed.
You're correct...Kansas was it?
Yes - Kansas City. I don't trust anyone who worked for that institution.
really? Was that before, or after he ran Domino's Pizza?
Cain was on the board of the Federal Reserve when Alan Greenspan was head. He said it during the econ debate last night.
he said Alan Greenspan was a kickass Fed Head or something like that. He lurves Greenspan.
This really is a key issue. Can OWS affect the next election and still maintain its spirit. I am disappointed in Obama because I thought he was going to lead the fight for real change. However, he did inherit the worst economic disaster since the depression. No one, and I mean no one, could be expected to wave a wand and solve these massive problems in one term. One thing I embrace about OWS is the rejection of politics as usual, and, right now, I don't see Obama going that way. Too often I'm voting for the lesser of two evils. Too often I'm voting for someone, not because I really support them, but because I don't want the other guy to win. Guess I'm still figuring this out.
Check out Ron Paul on YouTube. I too voted Obama and am now disappointed.
I'm getting confused.
Might I respectfully suggest, Ron Paul !
He has written a number of articles, published at
http://www.antiwar.com
and he has had one of the most sensible & clear - headed evaluations of our economic troubles, and their relation to the so - called "Global War On Terror" which I have yet seen. He could bring credibility & sanity back to the Republican Party, - but that would be if, and only if, the Republicans had sense enough to actually discern what he is saying, and then nominate him.
I used to be a Ron Paul supporter but I no longer think his solutions make sense. He would make it so that corporations are less regulated giving them the ability to become even stronger. Also he doesn't believe in public education. While our education system is in bad shape I don't think the solution is for the rich to be the only ones able to afford education. I think Paul would make the situation worse.
I like Ron Paul as well, but we have to remember that he is still part of this two-party dictatorship. As president, he would not be able to lawfully pass anything on his platform because the two parties would unite as one against him.
He did run as a third party candidate in the late 80s. I think that Congressman and women would agree with him if they were looking out for us, the average people.
Agreed, but sadly they don't. Then again - this is what we're fighting for in this movement, no?
Doesn't believe in public education? Seriously? Are you really that uninformed or trying to spread misinformation? He wants the FEDERAL government out of education - it should be up to the STATES.
Yes that's exactly right he wants it up to the states. Which, in many states could be detrimental to public education.
The Federal government, along with the passage of No Child Left Behind, have not helped public education one bit. It really should be up to the states.
The national government cannot afford it nor are they any good at it.
What makes you think the states will handle it any better.
I support your decision to suggest Ron Paul. He is completely opposed to the Federal Reserve, which keeps inflating our currency and opposed to these corporate bailouts. He wants to keep the federal government out of education, and keep it with the states, where it belongs. He has been in Congress for a long time and his voting record proves he is intellectual and fair. He warned against the housing bubble and warned that our foreign policy would lead to terrorist attacks.
Bump for an answer
karl marx
nobody yet. we need to run our own candidate.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/dangers-of-unmoderated-forums/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/purple-dialogue/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/its-time-the-occupy-movement-as-a-whole-become-a-m/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/corporate-oligarchy/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/thetruth-socialismcapitalismcommunismmarxism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-versus-corporatism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/no-war/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/help-me-understand/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-a-love-story/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/sociology/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/energy-101-solution/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ethics/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/break-your-left-right-conditioning/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/nader-kucinich-and-paul/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/5-facts-you-should-know-about-the-wealthiest-one-p/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/i-am-homeless-joe-jp-morgan-chase-accidentally-for/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/can-we-end-the-fed/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-end-the-federal-reserve-and-what-do-you-replac/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/where-are-we-and-how-do-we-move-forward/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/things-wall-st-did-were-not-illegal/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/teaching-the-occupation/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-forum-needs-structure/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-not-your-personal-billboard-for-your-politi/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/systems-theory-primer/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/organize-inform-take-action-effect-change/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/better-website-needed/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-playing-the-devils-games/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/nonviolence-the-only-path/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-not-against-capitalism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-is-not-about-political-stripe-it-is-about-bas/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/national-initiative-for-democracy/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-third-political-party-the-movement-of-the-middle/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/300-fema-camps/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-a-false-flag-operation/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-this-will-not-work/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/paradigm-shift-now/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-proposal-for-focus/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-the-bullshit-posts-and-get-organized/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/suggested-goals/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/oct-18-gao/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/naomi-klein-climate-change-fight-is-down-to-the-99/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/only-1-demand-includes-all-others-article-v-of-the/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/occupy-eco-villages/
President Obama for re-election. The House Republicans refuse to approve a tax increase for corporations and refuse to close loopholes in the Tax code that benefit corporations. Republicans represent the Big Business and the wealthy. Their party is very crafty and manipulative in marketing their party and shrewdly drawing in the middle class by appealing to their core moral beliefs:
Family values Sanctity of marriage Ant-abortion the right to bear arms love of country love of God Patrotism support the troops Apple Pie ETC.
These are core values that many of us hold to be true for us but the Republicans actions of stepping on the backs of middle class families speak much louder than the phony lipservice they promulgate about family values. It is a smoke and mirror show to hook you and not reveal their real agenda which is catering to the corporae lobbyists and and having the middle class foot the bill for the many bailouts.
You do realize that Obama received massive campaign support from Wall Street in 2008, right? He is part of the problem. The whole system is f$&%ed - both parties are bought by the giant corporations of the world. Don't play into the left-right paradigm.
And Obama is equally crafty in demobilizing anti-war sentiment with the false hope that a Democrat, though he's owned by the same corporate power (especially investment bankers on Wall Street) as the Republicans, is somehow going to change the power structure. We don't need to continue using the "slave suggestion box" (voting). We need to confront corporate power with our own. Let's prepare for a General Strike!
Obama is hurting our economic and inflating your money too. He is increasing our debt and raising the debt ceiling. If you want your money,savings and assets to be of any worth, don't vote Obama. Not to mention the ever increasing war debt that he promised to change!!
President Obama for re-election. The House Republicans refuse to approve a tax increase for corporations and refuse to close loopholes in the Tax code that benefit corporations. Republicans represent the Big Business and the wealthy. Their party is very crafty and manipulative in marketing their party and shrewdly drawing in the middle class by appealing to their core moral beliefs:
Family values Sanctity of marriage Ant-abortion the right to bear arms love of country love of God Patrotism support the troops Apple Pie ETC.
These are core values that many of us hold to be true for us but the Republicans actions of stepping on the backs of middle class families speak much louder than the phony lipservice they promulgate about family values. It is a smoke and mirror show to hook you and not reveal their real agenda which is catering to the corporae lobbyists and and having the middle class foot the bill for the many bailouts.
Thank You for your answer.
BTW: The Jobs Act Bill, in it's current form, would raise my taxes, and my wife and I make less than a hundred grand a year combined. So while I respect your opinions, I encourage you to investigate what you support a bit more.
obama
Why?
ows from start has been democratic and all republicans do nothing but demonize the movement read the signs listen to the people and see tax rich get money out of politics end wars have never been backed by republicans tax cuts for middle class modernize roads and bridges invest in middle class not banking class by raising minimum wage thats the oocupy wall sreet message
I beg to differ.
The Civil War was ended by a Republican, Lincoln. The Vietnam war was ended by a republican, Nixon. The first Gulf War was ended by a Republican, Bush.
I'm sorry. I am having trouble deciphering the remainder of your message.
The Republicans of the 1860s were not the Republicans of today.
Yea. I mean even if they were not shot in the back of the head, they'd be REALLY old.
The Gulf War? Bush sr started ,ended it and Bush jr restarted it. This is the same war rehashed all over again by father and son.The current war is costing the American tax payer billions a day...for the past 10 years!!!
thats my point stop trying to divide ows
I'm not trying to divide anything. I am simply trying to understand. Do you feel as though there is division amongst the protestors? Wait. That would require thread drift, which I am trying to avoid.
what dont you understand read the signs talk with the people so you can understand that the majority of our movement want tax cuts for middle class modernize roads and bridges invest in middle class not banking class by raising minimum wage thats the oocupy wall sreet message
Ron Paul is a Republican that has a perfect voting record of voting against all our wars and voting to bring our troops home.
ows is about tax the rich and corporate greed ron paul can eat a hot bowl of donkey dicks
The Democratic party has not stood for any of those things for over thirty years. The redistribution of income upwards has been a thoroughly bipartisan affair. See Winner-Take-All Politics: Public Policy, Political Organization, and the Precipitous Rise of Top Incomes in the United States, available at: http://pas.sagepub.com/content/38/2/152.full.pdf
your a lie stop the fox spin
That's tellin 'em ! ha ha lol ;~D
Unlike the Democratic party, I reside happily on the left. Read the article to which I linked. It will enlighten you (as it did me).
im glad that your view of anarchist is not with the majority who want tax cuts for the middle class modernize our roads and bridges and raising the minimum wage read the signs and listen to the people and stop lying
Not a Democrat does not equal anarchist. If the Democratic party ever decides to start representing people again instead of Wall Street, I will consider voting for them.
you are forgetting about the tea party hostage takers who have nearly destroyed the economy stop blaming both sides that is hurting the ows movement
Both sides are to blame. They both passed the laws to allow themselves to be bought off. They just want us fighting amongsts ourselves with the left-right paradigm.
stop the fox spin
STOP the MSNBC spin. I think for myself, I do not just pop out talking points, then try to discredit others with meaningless, one liners. Seems a tactic of yours though. I do not wish to get into a right-left fight. that is what THEY want. I oppose both parties.
ows from start has been democratic and all republicans do nothing but demonize the movement read the signs listen to the people and see tax rich get money out of politics end wars have never been backed by republicans tax cuts for middle class modernize roads and bridges invest in middle class not banking class by raising minimum wage thats the oocupy wall sreet message
If you vote strictly Democrat, you thnk they would do anything different? Listen to their words, watch their actions too. Look at the last 100 years, they are all accountable. Vote how you like, that's your right. But I emplore you to please break out of the left-right paradigm. You just might see the man behind the curtain.
stop the fox spin
Is this all you know? Counter productive statements with DNC talking point and accusations of fox spin? I will say it again it is BOTH parties that have caused this mess. You just refuse to open your mind.
by blaming both sides equally is misleading and those type comments hurt our movement letting the media assume we have no message
Really? Saying both parties are corrupt and that we need to get the money out of politics hurts the movement. It is the root cause of the message. The only reason the banksters and corporations can buy our politicians is because we allow them to. A possible starting point to get a handle on it.
Capitalism is and should be our ECONOMIC system, NOT our GOVERNMENT system.
Institute term limits. 8 years maximum for any and all nationally elected servants. If two 4 year terms are enough for any one man to hold the highest elected public servant office of President, that should also hold true for other public servants in lesser offices.
Eliminate ALL company and non-profit contributions to political candidates. Only private U.S. citizens should be allowed to donate to any U.S. political candidate, and donations should have an individual donor cap.
Eliminate ALL PAID corporate and non-profit lobbyists. Our elected officials are there to serve us, We The People, not anything or anybody else.
Eliminate the need for candidates to have to buy advertising to campaign. During election times, media should have the choice to participate. If they wish to participate, then they should provide free equal air time to all political candidates. Local media providing for local elections, and national media providing for national elections.
ows from start has been democratic and all republicans do nothing but demonize the movement read the signs listen to the people and see tax rich get money out of politics end wars have never been backed by republicans tax cuts for middle class modernize roads and bridges invest in middle class not banking class by raising minimum wage thats the occupy wall street message
Sigh..OK I'll play...Stop the MSNBC spin.
im sorry but republican views dont belong in ows
I am not a rebulican, or a democrat, I claim no party affiliation, never have. If nobody else's views are allowed, then this most definately does not represent 99%. What part of BOTH parties caused this do you not get?
read the signs and talk to the people tax the rich are not republican and its people like you who take the term 99% out of context we mean we are the real american not the tea party which likes to claim they are the average american
OWS doesn't have a comprehensive strategy to address all the demands of the people at the same, and therefore no leader, and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management Group of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategic Legal Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures
Join
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
if you want to support a Presidential Candidate – myself – at AmericansElect.org in support of the above bank-focused platform.
Go troll somewhere else. The reason people are attracted to the occupy movement is because they're sick of using the "slave suggestion box" (i.e. voting for candidates).
Anyone but Wall St candidate, Barack Obama. If/When the next guy caters to Wall St instead of Main St, vote him out too.
Herman Cain looks pretty good, but I would not be surprised at all to see Ron Paul move to the front once voting starts.
Herman Cain would be more of the same but worse!! He worked for the Federal Reserve and is completely owned. He claimed Greenspan was his favorite Federal Reserve chairman. Nooo to Cain!!
You can sling all the mud you like on Cain. All it does is protect the status quo. Cain may be all you claim he is, but without new leadership, things will not change. If Cain turns out to be the nominee, and then the president, he needs to be held to the same standard Obama should be.
The price for failure and crony capitalism is removal from office. Period. The only alternative is a true bloody revolution, followed by chaos, followed by a dictatorship more than likely, and very few people in this country are truly interested in that.
Do you like Ron Paul? Did you watch the October 11th debate?
I think Ron Paul has a real shot at it this year, but in all honesty, I would accept any of the above outside of maybe Perry, Bachman, Santorum, or Huntsman.
I'm going to vote RP but there's no way I could vote Cain or Santorum. After Cain stated he loved Greenspan he lost any respect I may have previously had for him. I don't agree with Santorum economically or socially.
Santorum is an ass. I think you are being too harsh on Cain. His very story is the story of the American dream, regardless of what he thinks of Greenspan. By any measure he is better than Obama.
Seriously, two facts have become painfully obvious about Obama:
1) He hasn't an F'n clue what he is doing
2) He is as corrupt as they come.
This may sound sad and cynical, but I'd take a corrupt guy who knows what he is doing over a corrupt dolt. You don't shoot the horse you are riding.
I don't want Obama back in office either!!! In my opinion, both Cain and Obama are more of the same. I would like to suggest a video. Should I put it in here or send it to your private message, or neither. Haha
Cain may be more of the same, Obama is guaranteed to be more of the same. Failure to vote him out is to go with a sure thing... more of the same.
Post your video here!
Ok. I don't know how to do it on my phone :( but on YouTube it's entitled, "Restore America Now! Cain Caught in Brazen Debate Lie." I'm also afraid that if he were to win, once his term were up, it would be easy for the next Congress and president to turn his 9-9-9 plan into something a lit harsher-like 12-12-12-or worse. Which would further hurt the middle class and poor.
12-12-12 wouldn't hurt the middle class compared to what we have now, though it would impact the poor.
Federal middle class tax rate right now is:
14% payroll tax plus 25% income tax. Total? 39%. 24-36% would still be a discount. 18-27% most definitely is.
The point still remains that the next could increase it then we're just back to more of the same. We have to fix the inner workings and get the money out of the government. Cain won't do that since he's one of them. He will continue to inflate our currency and our money, savings and assets will eventually be worthless. Did you watch the video?!
Not yet, but I will. I agree cutting government spending is as or more important than fixing a tax code that disproportionately taxes the middle class, but in my opinion, that is one of the areas Cain shines (Certainly when put next to Obama).
Without huge government spending and lobbied tax breaks, half billion dollar boondogles like Solyndra don't happen.
I agree. The whole system needs reform and Obama is not th man for the job. I think we may have to agree to disagree on Cain. His history is too telling to me as to where we'll be heading. You should look into where RP stands on cutting government spending, the FED and our wars, if you haven't already.
Like I said, I'm down with RP. They are all flawed candidates, and they are all better than Obama. If I had my pick, i'd go with Gingrich based on three facts:
1) He has a plan 2) He's a smart mo-fo 3) He has experience herding the cats to get his legislation pushed through.
I like most of what RP wants, but I question his ability to build enough consensus to get it through. Real leadership is not just having a plan, but being able to implement it.
Santorum is an ass huh? I forgot to agree with that too. Ok, give me some time for I have never done this from my phone before. I asked Reddy on here to post it too. He may beat me to it!
If Obama wins, then you know the election was rigged. I don't take part in politricks, but from what I can see, Ron Paul seems to be the favorite. However, if people want change, then get rid of the two party system.
Obama 2012!!!!!!!
Obama! Of course. He is a fellow traveler. Down for the struggle and all that.