Forum Post: Ok, who is the leader of this protest? Nobody that's who.
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 11, 2011, 5:43 p.m. EST by realcarrera
(53)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Simple words. NO LEADER, NO MOVEMENT.
Without a leader this is aimless. Angry mobs don't achieve anything. Until a leader is appointed, the protest is not going to be taken seriously. Until Wall St. sees that ONE MAN OR WOMAN is ardent or passionate enough to lead THE PEOPLE to change...nothing is going to happen. Let's appoint a leader.
I think leaders will emerge organically. People tend to write this movement off after only a month of existence because I think they're afraid of what it means if it doesn't go away. Give it time. The movement is still defining itself.
I like the way you're thinking comrade.
I agree that the movement needs leadership, organization, and focus.
I disagree that one can be appointed just like that.
It cannot be a democratic choice for a leader, too much bureaucracy involved. Too much of a waste of time. A leader is a leader and proclaims himself or herself a leader without the consent of the movement. It sucks but that's the only way.
Leadership is emergent behavior. I think some of the leadership will eventually be chosen via a democratic process - and if it takes time, it's worth taking to legitimize the organization.
But the face of the movement? The Person who ends up as the acting leader? That's an emergent phenomenon; it doesn't happen on a schedule.
Movements, protests, resistances - the success of these things, like success in business, is subject to luck as much as it is subject to effort. Leadership emerges largely by chance - think of spinning a roulette wheel once a day, and waiting for it to hit 00. The movement will endure if the protesters have the will to stick it out long enough for leadership to emerge. The good news is it probably won't take years. The bad news is no one knows how long it will take.
ows didn't stroll in off the desert. these are americans. that is the group. our government is the leadership. we have a structure. we need to fix that structure. pressure will be applied until ALL of these issues have been dealt with.
You are operating in a dying paradigm. A movement with no leader is more powerful sometimes in a totalitarian state. No leader, no target.
This is not a cult of personality. It is not a group of fools led by jingoistic slogan and appeals to the lowest common denominator. I don't think there should be "A" leader. Committees, yes. Spokespeople, certainly, and only if they are limited and they revolve spokespeople. But a single person as the leader? No. The only thing that would do is allow the press to turn this movement into just an extension of one person.
Wall Street is currently scared. There wouldn't be so many lies being manufactured if they weren't. (Any one see the guy on MSNBC say that the protestors are a bunch of losers who are just doing drugs and having public sex on the lawn of Zuccotti Park. And he didn't even bother to check to see if the park has a lawn - it doesn't.)
Wrong. So long as the movement remains the chanting voices of thronging masses, it is secure. No leader, no problem. This is a people movement, not a persons.
If you ask me if you wanted to do that youd have the other Occupy _ movements start actually coming online here and talking from there respective groups of loud voices... they could meet online... for example... and debate and discuss the issues and so on... IF we do need leaders we need to start understanding how to organize, that is, become represented, perhaps by online poll... perhaps this could be something else... who knows... but ideas is what we need...
Too bad that the people protesting on Wall St. do not have smart phones and cannot afford internet connection. How are we going to solve that problem?
Not sure if being sarcastic. If you are... that was... hilarious?
If not than we must begin writing... WE all must being to use our Words to spread our message... Pamphlets perhaps? perhaps newpapers...
You are correct however we must begin using FB and Twitter instead because there are people who honestly don't know about this movement.
ows is just a big rabble of people who don't know who to blame for the economic mess.. don't believe me? look at these buffoons
http://www.moneytrendsresearch.com/frightening-ows-atlanta-collectively-protesting-like-zombie-idiots-sadly-the-protests-in-manhattan-are-equally-idiotic/
we do not need any leader, the truth can be the leader. again, what happens is people trapped in hierarchy think the only way out is another hierarchy, nope.
The movement is better off without any single leader.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/dangers-of-unmoderated-forums/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/corporate-oligarchy/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/thetruth-socialismcapitalismcommunismmarxism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-versus-corporatism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/no-war/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/help-me-understand/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-a-love-story/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/sociology/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/energy-101-solution/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ethics/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/break-your-left-right-conditioning/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/nader-kucinich-and-paul/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/5-facts-you-should-know-about-the-wealthiest-one-p/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/i-am-homeless-joe-jp-morgan-chase-accidentally-for/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/can-we-end-the-fed/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-end-the-federal-reserve-and-what-do-you-replac/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/where-are-we-and-how-do-we-move-forward/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/things-wall-st-did-were-not-illegal/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/teaching-the-occupation/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-forum-needs-structure/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-not-your-personal-billboard-for-your-politi/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/systems-theory-primer/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/organize-inform-take-action-effect-change/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/better-website-needed/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-playing-the-devils-games/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/nonviolence-the-only-path/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-not-against-capitalism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-is-not-about-political-stripe-it-is-about-bas/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/national-initiative-for-democracy/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-third-political-party-the-movement-of-the-middle/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/300-fema-camps/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-a-false-flag-operation/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-this-will-not-work/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/paradigm-shift-now/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-proposal-for-focus/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-the-bullshit-posts-and-get-organized/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/suggested-goals/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/oct-18-gao/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/naomi-klein-climate-change-fight-is-down-to-the-99/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/only-1-demand-includes-all-others-article-v-of-the/
You are in Santa Barbara my friend. The east coast is not the west coast and I am sure that you know that.
your point is?
My point is come to NYC and protest or offer good solutions without spamming the forums with so many links that people don't know where to start clicking. I'm serious man, it's not necessary. We can hear you.
make up your mind. i am offering good solutions. click the links. I'm not spamming g the forums, i am offering meaningful organization because there is other wise no organization.
it is necessary. I don't really care what you think about it, I am guessing you didn't bother to click the links.
No, you can't hear me, because if you could, you'd get to the right actions which that understanding leads to .
I clicked most of the links. Why? Because I care what you have to say. The same way I care what everyone else says also. I am simply suggesting that you focus on one (1) link that you'd really like to push and I guarantee you that more people would click on that 1 (one) link which will consequently lead them to taking you opinions seriously.
thank you for your thoughtful advice and concern. I will take it under advisement and consider it. .............. the suggestion box has rejected your ticket, thanks for your time and energy.
Location: Santa Barbara, CA.....
yep. i post that on purpose.
Location: ???...still Santa Barbara, CA.....
and your point?
Maybe, during one of our Occupations, a person will let his or her voice ring higher than the others, and maybe we will accept this person as our "spokesperson"
The reason why the elite and the MSM can not discredit this movement is because there is no leader. They have no one to single out and attack. Keep it leaderless.
realcarrera - If you are pro-OWS, have some respect for your fellow men. You talk to people like they're worthless. Be a leader.
I am for change. However I am realistic to what can be done and how it must be done. The only way that radical change can be achieved is through death. Read my other post so you can see what I mean. http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-movement-isnt-serious-until-somebody-dies/
Read your post. You're right. Want to know my response to it?
If that person hasn't emerged yet, what it means is things are really not bad enough yet for a revolution. That person will emerge when the conditions are right, when it is time. It happened in Tunisia. But that doesn't mean this movement is for nothing. It doesn't go from 0-60 in a day. Think about how far it's already come in just a month. People all over the world know about it. Zuccotti Park will be written about in history books 100 years from now (if humanity still exists at that point). Things are growing pretty rapidly. And people are willing to sacrifice. Over a thousand people nationwide have been arrested willingly to support this cause. Have faith. Either the lawmakers will take this seriously and improve things, or they will ignore it - and then a full blown revolution will occur. But either way, this train is going full steam ahead and there's no stopping it.
I think at some point, the leaders will make themselves apparent through the various occupations. I also don't think there will be just one leader: Like any movement, many people will end up driving this engine. Right now, its just too early to tell who those people are.
no leaders, we are each our own leader please please please don't repeat history again everytime people give their power away to someone else no good comes of it followers turn into zombies, and leaders can be bribed or killed, and replaced i'll say it again, please no leaders, we are each our own leader as soon as you appoint a leader you are cutting the movement's head off
Wrong. All are leaders here.
Of the people, by the people. Enough with handing the power off to a chosen few.
We have the ability to actively participate in our own governance directly.
Too unorganized.
That's because it is a young movement. Very fluid. It will gel in time. Patience. Nothing will change quickly.
No. The moment we decide to let this movement have a leader, is the moment that the powers that be will swoop in to either co-opt or decapitate the movement. If we are to survive and thrive, and threaten the power status quo, we need to adopt guerilla style tactics. Complete decentralization, no leaders, vague demands, but intuitive enough that the average American understands and sympathizes with us. The opposition is unbelievably sophisticated and slick. We have to keep them on their toes. Keep it decentralized. Keep it energized. Keep it leaderless. A single motto should encompass the varieties of opinions and demands, but it has to have a theme.
Get Corporate Money out of the Government Process.
What about starting by "Audit the Government's Balance Sheets" ?
That too. Or just Audit the federal reserve...
You're totally wrong dude. Look how far it's come so far. We're already occupying the agenda. You're all charged up for demands an leaders. That'll come later. Just chill out and gel. Things are going great. Once we all realize we're the 99% we wont have to demand anything. We'll just decide.
Magically of course right?
No my friend. Once we recognize our commonality, we find unity. And when the 99% of the people discover that commonality (pay attention, it's happening right now), they realize how ridiculous it is that they've subjugated them to the 1% for so long. Fear is what made it possible all these years. But now people are speaking out loud and losing their fear. Over time our demands will mature and we'll begin direct non-violent action. Brush up on your history and you'll realize the power of that. The 1% can't deal with it. This isn't magic. It's intensional creative tension. And it works. The 1% know it which is why Cantor and Romney and the people in the boardrooms are rattling their sabres right now. They're scared. Did you read the NYTimes and Washington post today? Are you paying attention?
A leader? Though I do agree we need to be more organized, a leader would give the media and corporations an easier target to attack. The people are the leaders. You are a leader, I am a leader. Every single Occupation member is a leader.
Leaders in theory.
Someone I guess the media will listen to.
WE are the leader my friend.
This is the problem. As long as people that aimlessly dream of a better future without a structure continue to believe this then nothing will get done.
Please read about every successful movement that has prospered. They've had a leader, they've either failed or successfully prospered.
We are well aware of what we need and don't but aren't looking for a "Sarah Palin" moment.
If the protest were more organized then I guarantee you that much more people would flock to the streets and protest. Right now it is too abstract. The media isn't giving it the respect it deserves and if you're not on the media's side, then forget it. It's just another hippie movement.
I know that more people would flock if they knew exactly what is going on because I work with many people who haven't much clue even in the age of the Internet with mass info available. Today I was with a group of the elderly who said they believed 100% in the cause but didn't want to go downtown. We will eventually get around to neighborhoods and have a mission statement put together. We are working on it. The networks, by the way, are owned by the 1%....so.....they're not happy campers right now. Just sayin'
That's a start. Hopefully this grows in the right way. When it gets to the point where word of mouth is the #1 form of distribution then I believe we'll have something good.
PS. I haven't owned a TV for 2 years and somehow I knew....but
Nope......Wall Street does not know what the hell to do and it is already scrambling.....
The movement needs a leader. Wall St. doesn't care about broken spirits.
Feeding trolls