Forum Post: occupy movement ; when is it going to get its head outta its ass?

"They can rig the elections even with a 90 percent coalition, simply by programming the central tabulators to apportion the votes the way they wish, not as cast. They would indeed be caught, but they would simply say that it was a "computer glitch," as they usually do when caught. Since the unelected candidates would already have been sworn in by the time that the authorities were forced to admit that there had been a computer glitch, Constitutionally, even though everyone knew the election was stolen, they could only be removed by impeachment, which Congress rarely does--in the case of sitting Members of Congress, "rarely" means NEVER.

As for the Article 5 Convention, we'd need to have that first to get corporate money out of politics, and in order for it to pass and be ratified, we'd first need to elect people who weren't beholden to the corporations. In order to elect such people, we'd first need the Constitutional Amendments to make it possible, so we'd need the Article 5 Convention first, but we couldn't get such Amendments passed and ratified unless we first elected people who weren't beholden to corporate money. In order to elect such people, we'd need the Amendment to remove corporate money from politics first. But to get the Amendment passed and ratified, we'd need to elect honest politicians first.

You seem to think that we can elect honest politicians without first getting the money out of politics, or that we can pass Constitutional amendments to get the money out of politics without first electing honest politicians. Neither is possible without the other happening first.

If you know game theory, you should be able to figure that out."

you seem to think that i haven't already run all that three times. Heres the problem with all of your reasoning. Since EVERY aspect of this game is as corrupt as you say it is, the only sane position to take is that the changes put on the table have to be fundamental, sound, lucid, and clear headed, so that what we are fighting FOR is evolutionary. WHEN the elites then have their con scam and are caught, that propels the game to escalate. Since its all rigged and con scam med through and corrupt, our best bets are to escalate as far as we can on each front and do all of the work that is possible on each front.

What you are in essence arguing against is not operating on the only front that actually matters, given that the only chance we have really of beating that problem ahead of it is to actually have a paradigm shift which convinces the one percent to actually stop being evil and join us. All it takes is a significant fraction of them to do that, and the power of the rest of the them is screwed like that.

I'm getting sick and tired of this. I hav put all of the real solutions on the table and if you all didn;t have your heads up your asses you'd be back at the wiki doing work. Instead, somebody whos got a tiny fraction of the understanding that i do is trying to tell me what i SEEM to think according to them as they spin in strategic confusion.

The real solution is, we don't do one thing and then the other next; we do it ALL simultaneously.

anything less will fail for precisely the kinds of reasons you seem to enjoy pointing out and then failing to see the real game consequences of.

We must come out with evolutionary solutions to 1001 very different high order problems, or this isn't going to fly.

We must implement all of those solutions AT THE SAME TIME, and even then, the monster of corporate oligarchy may not go down any way other than kicking or and screaming and fighting tooth and nail for 2 or 3 election years.

But probably, we can win this all in under 4 months, all you have to do is stop pontificating and chit chatting and BSing me and actually bother to go READ the plan and then be a part of a paradigm shift.

What people arguing from your position clearly manage to miss is the evolutionary energy which exists which has been held in check for 200 years by the DAM of the oligarchies lies and propaganda and culture wars.

We have yet to even imagine en masse tapping that energy and so everything feels stuck. The opposite is true. if you all stop kidding yourself that you can chit chat your way through it and BS each other and BS me, and actually go to the wiki, and read, and then get busy implementing what i have put before us all as work, the energy potential of assorted sciences that have been swept under the carpet, the evolutionary energy of the internet, and the evolutionary energy potentials of society towards evolution in general can be tidal waves that blow all of the old structures out and wash them away.

OR, we can ignore me as usual, and 30 years later i get to say i told you so again to a bunch of ghosts that don;t even know or remember back when i was telling everyone so.

You know i predicted all of this 20 years ago and had the solutions then. Civilization has been 4 months away from fixing it for that fucking long; all you people would have to do is actually LISTEN.

http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Orientation_%2B_Introduction_to_this_Wiki

i have spent 20 years doing this full time and all i have to show for it is accumulated proofs that humans are stupid and not worth trying to save.