Forum Post: The real problem is Obama's Socialist Agenda
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 12, 2011, 1:50 p.m. EST by Conservative2011
(3)
from Englishtown, NJ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Barack Obama is the real problem. We need to oust him in 2012, deregulate the industries, untie the hands of job creators and REDUCE taxes.
If you want to increase the tax revenue, put more people to work. That broadens the tax base... Not a very hard concept to understand. You crazy hippies want to steal from the working class and keep for yourselves? That is the most un-American idea.
OUT WITH OBAM-unist in 2012! ONE AND DONE YOU SOCIALIST PINKO COMMIE Community Organizer!
Are you kidding me?! Obama is socialist? How is this socialist?!!
Stacks his administration with ex Goldman Sach's executives Bails out the biggest banks and corporations in the country Writes a healthcare bill that delivers EXACTLY what the health insurance industry cartel wants Has a tax plan that's EXACTLY what Ronald Reagan delivered
How the F--K does that make him a socialist?!! That makes no sense! He's delivered everyone of us RIGHT INTO THE CORPORATIONS LAPS.
I think you need to educate yourself on what the hell a socialist is.
A socialist is anyone a right wing Tea Partier doesn't like. Don't bother to read Marx or to actually understand what socialism is, just howl it as a mindless buzzword!
I used to think Obama was a socialist, but the last 3 years have proven to me that he is a Fascist through and through, and that is way more dangerous than a Socialist.
Finally! Someone else who sees what I see!
That's precisely the other reason I got out of the Tea Party. The sheer amount of ignorance in there was UNBELIEVABLE. So many of them didn't have a brain capacity greater than an amoeba. We live in the age of information. We live in an age where practically EVERY CITY HAS A LIBRARY. There is NO EXCUSE TO BE THAT STUPID. WHICH THE MAJORITY OF THE TEA PARTY IS.
OBAMA IS NOT A SOCIALIST. HE ISN'T EVEN LEFTIST! He's definitely a Centrist who REALLY CATERS TO CORPORATE CRONIES.
Here is the Tea Party Mantra.
If it looks like a duck. If it quakes like a duck. Then by god, it must be a duck.
Glad you saw the truth.
By talking to the people who disagree with us we have an opportunity to change their minds and their hearts and that is a very important thing. Even if it isn't initially noticeable, simply by engaging in conversation with these people we will be making progress. If we can respond positively and without aggression to people who disagree with us, we will have made an impression and perhaps that will aid in a change in their perspective over time. By making this or that group into "bad" people, we're really doing ourselves a disservice ultimately. We all are interconnected even if the way in which we are connected is not completely apparent. The only way to change people's minds and hearts is to keep talking to them and be respectful and logical while doing so.
I totally understand the frustration that comes from trying to communicate with someone who is presenting a different message aggressively and with hate. I realize it is very difficult to have a discussion with someone who is coming at you in a negative way. But keep that in mind when you talk to others... people won't hear the message if it's presented in a negative way with name-calling or belittling. If other people want to waste their energy by being hateful then that is their problem, I feel it is our duty to respond respectfully in all instances and continue to drive home our message and raise awareness. Let's take some of the emotionality out of it, stick to logic and facts, and not become over-reactive when discussing things with anyone. Talking to others about ideas is very important no matter how they seem to respond. Just hearning a different view can open someone's mind even when they are being close-minded. Here are some other things you can do to affect positive change:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXdmNFNqaQc
I am glad you got out of that cesspool, and have an idea of who the real enemy is.
Maybe the fact that such idiots hate 'socialism' so much is a sign it aint so bad, eh?
Hopefully more and more people will wake up. I think they are.
I wonder if all those library books explain why all the smart Americans are not immigrating to Cuba, and China, and all those other wonderful socialist countries?
Do they tell you what the actual numbers are on the "American immigrants" to those places?
Do they all demonstrate that the citizens of both North and South Korea enjoy all the same freedoms and liberties and happiness? Do any of those books document the horrific stories told by refugees from China, and Cambodia and Russia?
The "smart" Americans don't want to live in China, they just want operate their businesses there. Privatize the profit, socialize the risk & the losses!
Well, if Jim Rogers is any example, and he's just one a whole BUNCH of smart money folks I know, then yes. A LOT of smart Americans who are very smart about their money have already jumped ship to China. Rogers relocated to Singapore and his kids speak both English and Mandarin because of what he and many others see as the new economic era.
But he's a RICH, smart American. He can pretty much live anywhere he chooses to live and make it comfortable. But if he's choosing to remain an American citizen, by default he's not an immigrant.
I guess that depends on your definition of immigration. I call it voting with your feet. He and many others have voted.
I define immigration as leaving your native country to become a citizen of another. Oh, and just so you know, Singapore is not in China, nor is The Republic of Singapore a socialist country.
And China is not communist either. Only in name. And Singapore's proximity, shipping base, services makes it an excellent jumping point for those folks to transition into China. Others go to Shanghai.
As for China being communist, it's as far from communist as you can get. Communism is an economic system attempting to govern. Capitalism is a purely economic system. China is hypercapitalist to the core. They've bought capitalism and free markets lock stock and both smoking barrels.
It's government however is best defined as the following:
Almost 99% of the top politburo are engineers. Technocratic
The defining philosophy is if you don't bring results, you're fired. Meritocratic
And finally, what we say, goes. Autocratic Dictatorship.
China is actually a Technocratic, meritocratic Dictatorship. That's the most accurate definition of their government. Interestingly, Singapore is very similar to that style of government, except their Confucian based.
" Its current political/economic system has been termed by its leaders as "Communism with Chinese characteristics".
And it's their country, so I defer to them.
Let's not make other people into an enemy. Please see my post above. I feel this is a better way to go about things. We're really all in this together and want the same basic things even if we have lost sight of that fact.
A lot of them are. I was reading articles the other night about how quickly republicans, and by that I mean the Neo-con Fascist faction of the party are already rewording themselves. I'm a left leaning libertarian. Which probably makes me a fiscal conservative, social liberal. So I find myself more often in the republican camp purely out of monetary reasons. That said, there's a LOT of people like me who got super sick of the Tea Party when it turned into the Fascist Party. So yeah, OWS has a good number of "conservatives."
Whatever the hell conservative means these days.
Perhaps all the labeling is just too destructive at this point. Maybe we need to drop the labels and the pre-conceived ideas and try to be open to talking to each other more respectfully. Labeling is just going to limit us finding solutions I think.
socialists redistribute money
Please tell me the history of those who "ruled" in socialist countries. Do they share the burden with their citizens? No. Do they live in equal lifestyles with everyone else? No. Convincing the populace that socialism is best for everyone and is so fair and equal has nothing to do with whether or not those leaders THEMSELVES actually live like socialist citizens do. That's the brilliance of their actions.
You create chaos, panic, unstable economic conditions and then let the system (and the useful idiots who react negatively to the unrest) collapse itself. When all seems lost-they step in and say "I'll help you. I'll rebuild it".
They NEVER allow the finger of blame to be pointed at exactly where it belongs...they always blame someone, or something else...and we're still going where they point....
Then you need to answer this.
Who are our rulers?
Is it a party of comrades?
Or is it a conglomerate of corporations?
If it's a party of comrades, then yes, I would agree, he has a socialist agenda.
But apparently it's a conglomerate of corporations. Which means we have a fascist government.
Pick one.
What does the word "comrade" mean? It means associates, friends, partners, companions who share the same activities. Cronies are cronies.
Communism-on the extreme left involves a dictatorship that uses violence and fear to control the economic and political aspects of society. A communist is "a person who works to bring about the overthrow of capitalism by the working class, and the transformation of capitalist society into socialism and then into communist society"
Fascism-on the extreme right ALSO involves a dictator who enforces economic and political rule involving corporatism with violence and murder.
In my opinion, the communists and the fascists have joined the same team to destroy those who are expendable. Then they'll duke it out with whomever remains.
Then it would be correct to say that the system makes Obama not a communist, and the way things are run aren't exactly fascist. We have some emergences of violence and fear. But not super overtly... yet.
Commofascist?
The worst of both worlds.
You're obviously still a believer in the system. You need to take another look. It is the system of business and government that is the problem and they both need a complete overhaul. This is a revolution. Not, oh yeah, nominate another puppet.
A complete overhaul - absolutely!
I'm no defender of Obama, but branding him a "Socialist" borders on delirium, as he has clearly become a pillar of the unbridled, criminal form of capitalism that is destroying America.
I don't have to defend all that is capitalism to ask you to explain "criminal form of capitalism". To be a criminal, you have to break one or more laws. Please explain?
Google "Wall Street crime"
All that is there are allegations, mostly by pretty uncreditable people. If you know of specific crimes, why don't you list some?
Here's a few, if you're even actually searching for the truth. Which I doubt. But these postings are more for everyone else anyway, so here goes.
Wall Street Crimes list
http://seekingalpha.com/article/202564-the-criminal-consequences-of-the-goldman-sachs-case
"The Criminal Consequences of the Goldman Sachs Case"
It has been reported that Federal prosecutors are considering the possibility of a criminal indictment of Goldman Sachs (GS). It is early yet, but it’s worthwhile to contemplate what the consequences of this action would be.
Another one
http://www.businessweek.com/managing/content/mar2009/ca20090319_591214.htm
Wall Street's Economic Crimes Against Humanity
"By refusing to consider the consequences of their actions, those who created the financial crisis exemplify the banality of evil, writes Shoshana Zuboff "
Another one
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-isnt-wall-street-in-jail-20110216
Why Isn't Wall Street in Jail?
"Financial crooks brought down the world's economy — but the feds are doing more to protect them than to prosecute them"
Another one. And most damning, because anyone else would serve time in jail. Wall Street simply paid money.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertlenzner/2011/09/18/wall-street-pays-for-its-crimes/
Wall Street Pays For Its Crimes
And another one
http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2011/08/17/sec-whistleblower-feds-destroyed-evidence-thousands-wall-streets-worst-crimes-60321/
"SEC Whistleblower: Feds Destroyed Evidence Of Thousands Of Wall Streets’ Worst Crimes"
And if Forbes, Rolling Stone, and BusinessWeek aren't good enough or reputable enough for you, than obviously you have no concept on how to do basic research.
Your first one is old news, as you can see by the date. They couldn't find a crime, could they. Which crime were you referring to?
Your second reference is a good example of a writer making the same accusation you did. She brought no facts to the table. She writes well, but there were no facts. Crimes against humanity? I guess that's easier to argue with the nebulous parameters there.
Your third reference....yawn........
why does everyone quote others who also don't come with any facts? Lot's of talk, no facts.
Here's one for you. WALL STREET JOURNAL.
The Mouth of Wall Street. And if this one doesn't count for you, then you have a brain the size of an amoeba.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904070604576514840171054216.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
"SEC Accused of Destroying Files
BY MICHAEL ROTHFELD AND JENNY STRASBURG
An employee at the Securities and Exchange Commission has accused the regulatory agency of destroying at least 9,000 documents relating to inquiries of Wall Street banks and hedge funds.
Documents that were destroyed related to corporate giants including Goldman Sachs Group, Deutsche Bank, Lehman Brothers, Citigroup, Morgan Stanley, Wells Fargo, Bank of America, convicted fraud operator Bernard Madoff and hedge fund SAC Capital Advisors, according to a letter from the employee's attorney released Wednesday by Sen. Charles E. Grassley (R., Iowa)."
First, of all, I have never said there were no crimes. It has been unbelievable how hard it has been to pull an example out of you. Yes, that was the WSJ. They reported on an SEC employee who said thousands of documents were destroyed. The SEC then stated that those documents were destroyed following existing document destruction schedules. A crime? Maybe. Could be. There might have been. Possibly. And that is why you are camping out, supporting many people there who are espousing very Marxist style solutions to the problems?
Another one from Forbes.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/traceygreenstein/2011/02/23/crime-pays-off-on-wall-street-big-time/
Crime Pays Off On Wall Street (Big Time)
"What is so disturbing about fraud on Wall Street is the notion that a devilish character like Bernie Madoff, who stole from the rich, is whisked off to jail, while those who steal from lower to middle class individuals and families tend to fall into a familiar pattern of getting caught, paying fines, skipping jail time and walking away with bonuses worth millions of dollars. A recent exposé in Rolling Stone Magazine by Matt Taibbi profiled several of these scandalous cases, with alarming examples of well-known, Wall Street leaders who are now multi millionaires without any convictions after committing outrageous crimes that caused families all across the United States and elsewhere, to fall into financial ruin.
Need a few examples? Dick Fuld, the former CEO of the now defunct Lehman Brothers was suspected of lying about his compensation; not just to his company, but also to congress. Fuld was never convicted of any criminal activity, and after Lehman’s collapse was awarded a staggering $529 million dollars.
Angelo Mozilo, the co-founder of Countrywide Financial Corp., paid a $67.5 million settlement to the SEC to avoid trial. His charges included fraud and insider trading. However, this is a minute fraction of Mozilo’s bank account, as his personal net worth is estimated around $600 million. As a result of paying the settlement, all of Mozilo’s charges were dropped and he got off scot-free."
Funny.
Even Forbes refers to the ROLLING STONE AS A REPUTABLE PUBLICATION. And here's just a FEW proven crimes that got PAID off. As STATED IN FORBES.
I should be asking what YOU are smoking.
You FAIL.
Yet again.
Dick Fuld was "suspected"....now that's proof, huh.
Yeah, Mozilo paid a settlement. Of course it was offered to him. He may have been guilty.
So, a 67.5 million dollar settlement is why Wall Street should be occupied.
If you knew about Mozilo at the beginning of this discourse, why didn't answer my question straight and tell me about him and is potential crimes?
Because this is the INTERNET. People talk shit all the time. That's Not my style of debate. I come to a debate PREPARED WITH ARTICLES AND EVIDENCE.
Cause everything else is mental masturbation.
Which apparently you're good at.
then why were you incapable of coming with a fact?
Why are you incapable of reading?
Because there was no fact to read in your comment. I didn't ask for a referral, I asked for an answer.
Which you were given but were too incapable of following up. I bet you were the kid who asked the teacher to read you the entire reading assignment instead of actually doing your homework.
again you are wrong. referrals are not answers. if you knew the answer, why not answer? you didn't
Why not learn to read?
You couldn't.
that was the smartest remark you have made. which doesn't reflect well on the rest you have said.
i'll respond to that on your level.......................so, there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And to you too.
A pox on you and your entire industry.
So, you paint the entire industry the same........I guess if I would do that with OWS, then I could ask you why you dropped that turd on the police car. Since we are all painting with a broad brush.
Why don't you look at the number of Bank failures since 2007 and tell me again why I shouldn't paint the entire industry with a broad brush.
But, since you're incapable of reading, I'll just have to link it for everybody else.
http://problembanklist.com/failed-bank-list/
So that was you with the police car, then, huh?
I could see it was an ass, I just didn't know it was you.
:)
Yes, that was me with the cop car. I hang with authorities. Unlike me, you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in a public forum.
Yep, you proved my point. When mainstream, reputable publications like Rolling Stone, BUSINESS WEEK, and Forbes don't cut the mustard for you, than like I said, you're too ignorant to even understand the basics of research.
Nice try.
You FAIL.
And you still haven't stated one single specific crime. You know? It shouldn't be hard. There were actual crimes committed. There always are, both in good times and bad times. That's called the human condition. You could have come with some actual crimes that were actually committed. But you couldn't even do that.
Because you didn't even read the links.
But I'm not surprised considering you seem to have remedial, at best, reading comprehension.
Why the rip about remedial reading comprehension? I asked for a fact and you one that, after many requests, only provided some links. Are you completely incapable of stating a fact?
What, you have the reading ability of a kindegartner? Do you know what being an adult is? It means you can take responsibility. YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE TO READ THE INFORMATION BEFORE MAKING YOURSELF LOOK STUPID.
Maybe I should convey this to you according to your maturity level.
I give you the links to reputable sources of information.
You expend less then a calorie to move the mouse and click it.
You read it.
You write up a report on what you read, and submit it to me tomorrow.
Then you get a grade on how well you comprehend the material.
Capiche? :D
If you can't figure that out, then you need to go back to nursery school. Start with, Curious George. That would be an excellent place for you to start learning how to read.
You are still exemplifying so many of you on the left. When you are queried, your answer is.....do your own fucking research so that you can be as fucking smart as me. You never have come up with an example. Only googled links. That kid in the nursery school you referenced could do that much.
Because you won't even take the time out to read it. That's YOUR problem. I'm actually posting links and clippings that YOU WON'T EVEN READ.
All you're doing is exposing yourself to everyone here how incredibly dumb you are. And you're giving me a GREAT opportunity to post the information on Wall Street Crimes.
So I thank you for that.
Again, Start with Curious George, then try Berenstein Bears. But I think Dr. Seuss is too advanced for you. Oh what's that? You expect me to READ you the books? You still need your mother to put you to sleep? Aww, poor baby.
Rolling Stone? What you smokin, dude. lololololololol
Uh huh. Forbes and Business Week also apparently don't cut it for you. I think the question is what you consider reputable sources to be. The Inquirer? Sorry, a newspaper that has an almost naked woman every 3rd page doesn't make for a reputable resource.
Try again.
You FAILED... YET AGAIN.
once again, mr, link happy. You have never answered the question. You have gotten pissed off and copy and pasted links, but you have never answered the question. Why not? Do you not know the answer?
Let's see If I packaged a high risk CDO and sold it as low risk, what do we call that? It's called deceiving the customer. If I run a Ponzi scheme, as Bernie Madoff did, what happens to me if I'm caught? It's called I go to jail. Now what happens when Goldman Sachs does the same thing? As shown during the Tech bubble by underwriting risky IPO's and manufacturing a "collapse in underwriting standards." I'd go to jail for that. But not them! Is this what you want since you're wholey incapable of reading a basic properly fleshed out article published in a mainstream publication?
First of all, Madoff and GS did not do the same thing, even though you said so. And I am glad Madoff is in prison. That is where he belongs. There were no laws governing underwriting standards, so I don't see where there was a crime. If there was fraud, and I'm sure there were instances of that somewhere, then that should be prosecuted. I'm all in favor of that. But when people go out and protest an entire industry, that just doesn't make sense. Let me give you a hint......go after the bad guys and leave the rest alone
http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/node/4582
and
Another one.
Keep it coming buddy. It's one after the other after the other. And the entire industry is riddled with this. Especially now that Credit Default Swaps, another Goldman Sachs invention, is being exposed in Europe as an illegal scheme. It just brought down Erste group yesterday.
You don't need to think that I don't know shit went on. This has been all about your stupid way of saying shit and then having to be forced to come up with a fucking thing. And no, the whole industry is not riddled with this shit, but your comment board is
Uh huh.
All while Esrt, oh wait, what's that, Dexia? Funny, what brought us down in 2008? What's that, a CDO? Sold as "safe"?
Right. The industry isn't riddled with this? Tell that to Bernanke and his 16 trillion dollar bail out of not just our national banks who are connected to him, but WORLDWIDE.
Why would he need to send out 16 trillion of practically free money to bail out so many financial institutions worldwide? Gee, they bought... CDO's from banks here, Derivatives from JP Morgan, NY Bank, Credit Default Swaps from Goldman Sachs, ... all of which are taking down countries and economies as we speak.
How about telling me how uncriminal derivatives are, all one quadrillion of them. Just because they were illegal until they were deregulated and made legal under Clinton doesn't make them any less fraudulent.
BOY are you a fast reader!
I just Googled "Wall Street crime" and found 446 000 000 results... Did you really go through all of that material in less than 3 minutes and determine that these 446 000 000 links are mostly to "pretty uncreditable people"?
If you're such a "KnowledgeableFellow"and are THE Creditable One, do your homework this time, sift through the results and post your conclusions here so that we can all benefit.
This is one more example of ALL that I have found on here. Someone makes an accusation. Then I ask for some details. And all I get is.....look it up for yourself. I have conversed with accusers for years. The most common trait is that they will make an accusation, as if it is true just because it is said. I suspect most are just repeating what they want to believe. But when I ask for something specific, I get the runaround, until finally, I get the....well look it up answer. You hit fast forward and went straight to the "look it up yourself". Ahhh, that always reminds me of the kid on the playground who got called on his bullshit. His only answer is..............Oh, Yeahhhhh?????
Tough luck,"KnowledgeableFellow". Mama refuses to do your homework for you: you're a big boy now!
That's a really good way to get your facts out, now isn't it. That's about all I see here. So, wouldn't it be better for you guys if you would explain what your gripes are all about? You just told me that I needed to do all my own research to convince myself that you are right. It's easy to talk, It's a lot harder to back it up with facts.
446 000 000 results...and counting! Boy! That sure makes a lot of uncreditable people!
It's so easy to find bullshit hear. All you have to do is ask someone to back up what they say with a fact. Then when they respond by saying....look it up, dude,.....then you know you have found bullshit. You don't even have to get close enough to smell it. It's so obvious
Once again, you come with no facts. Sadly, I have found that very typical.
Don't you see that as a little strange? Someone makes an accusation.....and it's everyone else's responsibility to show that he is right?
We are soooooooooo lucky to have THE ONE CREDITABLE ONE to enlighten us 446 million uncreditable idiots!
Bye, bye, "KnowledgeableFellow", so long, auf wiedersehen, aurevoir! Happy trolling!
Wow, all I asked for was a single fact. And you couldn't produce one. Are you sure you aren't the only one on this website? No one, and that is not an exaggeration, NO ONE has come with a single fact to back up what they said. Accusations are cheap
See "quadrawack" 's excellent response below... I myself have no more time for you.
he certainly isn't doing what he said he would be doing but he has some socialist policies universal healthcare, rfid chips the no fly list no gun law that he and his chief of staff rahm emanuel are trying to push through
Have you LOOKED at the healthcare plan?! It was practically WRITTEN by the Health Insurance Industry! How is that even socialist?! Obama delivers THEM 30 million uninsured who are now required to BE INSURED, THEY get 30 million more unwilling customers, AND they get more provisions! That's why the stocks of the companies RALLIED after the signing of the healthcare plan!
That is NOT socialist.
THAT IS FASCIST. BIG DIFFERENCE.
ALL countries in the Western world have had universal healthcare for DECADES. How many of those countries are "Socialist"? Canada, for example. Is Canada "Socialist"? LOL Try telling THAT to Conservative Prime Minister Stephen Harper! LOL You'll get booted out of his office by the Mounties and deported back home! LOL
he has SOME SOCIALIST POLICIES i'm not saying with live under a socialist president
I'm calling the Mounties!
he has SOME SOCIALIST POLICIES i'm not saying with live under a socialist president
I'm calling the Mounties!
he has SOME SOCIALIST POLICIES i'm not saying with live under a socialist president
I'm calling the Mounties!
No obama. More Ron
Deregulation is not the solution. It's what got us here in the first place.
The 1% that are sitting on trillions of dollars of investing capital are not the working class. Please stop feeling sorry for them. They have systematically gained control of the government and had the legislation that they want written for decades. It is their control over the government that has gotten us into this. Including, point of fact, that they received a socialist bailout from George Bush. So let us rid ourselves of the Socialism of the 1% and return to the capitalist economy of the 99%. Remove the influence of the 1% from our Government.
Here's the point that keeps getting ignored.
Those trillions of dollars of investing capital? With the exception of the money that belongs to tax evaders and the very corrupt individuals who DO exist, the rest of it has already TAXED by the US Government and used as the budget for this country.
The power relationship goes both ways in Washington. The "rich" PAY to have certain people elected, and in return for their generosity-the elected official then promotes legislation that benefits the rich. And it has infected BOTH parties.
You could not be more right! That is why I advocate a financial revolution against the banks. We have to weaponize our money and force the banks (and vicariously, corporations) out of our government. We can not rely on our government to police itself.
As the situation stands voting out this corrupt official and in that corrupt official is not going to change anything. We have been voting in and out a revolving door of officials for decades and none of them have been able to fight back the corruption that is ruling this country. The 99% have to fight that corruption. This is the beginning of a revolution. This is the gathering storm of a Financial War that may just shake the fabric of our society. But, that is not necessarily a bad thing. I think that our society needs to be shaken up. I think that, United, the 99% need to refuse the Credit System and bring the Banks to their knees so they will relinquish control of the Government back to the People. We need to stop paying our mortgages, car loans, insurance, medical bills, student loans, etc. We need to pull our money out of the Stockmarket, bonds, 401k's, etc. We need to show the Banks that We stand against their corrupt system of Capitalist Governance and that we want our Democratic Republic back. We do this not to get rid of Capitalism, or to punish the wealthy with new taxes, or to bring in any kind of Socialism. In fact we do this to remove Socialism for the wealthy 1% and have them return to the Capitalistic economy we live in. But, Capitalism is not our system of Government. So We the People have to rise up and fight this Financial Revolution. We have to play chicken with the economy on the brink of destruction and force the Banks and their Corporate pawns to leave our Government alone. Then, and only then, can we vote and have our voice truly heard at the polls.
The problem will be getting even the majority of the 99% to do that. What portion of the 99% doesn't pay a mortgage, or car loan, or their own insurance or medical bills? What portion of that 99% have actually benefited from the relationship between the two and has no interest in harming it?
You cannot play chicken with human lives.
You fail to realize that the 1% is already playing chicken with our lives. They do so every day without our consent. They are pushing for more and more wealth for themselves while the lowest class grows larger and larger. All the signs are there that we are headed for an economic collapse already. I would rather have the controls of it in the hands of the 99% than the 1%. At least we will come out of it with a government that serves the people rather than the banks.
And what you fail to realize is that we HAD a government of the people and by the people and for the people and WE-the citizens of this country-went to sleep and corruption crept in and overcame it. Our lack of attention, our inability to get involved and stay involved is what gave them consent.
We live in a world where silence means approval, and a lack of explicit opposition means approval. This movement is banking on the fact that if the 99% is not explicitly opposing them, they must automatically agree with them. And what I'm trying to tell you, is that unless you KNOW beyond any doubt and have proof, that the majority of the 99% WILL act in the exact same manner-you might find yourself running headlong into the oncoming car pulling a wagon instead of driving another car.
All you can do is spread the message, gather the support, and fight the fight. That is what this movement is about. Revolutions throughout history started with angry mobs that formed into organized movements. It takes time. Time make more converts than Reason. We have to keep putting out the message until we have enough people to fight... Then we strike.
Fight. Revolution. Angry mobs. Fight. Strike.
Your rhetoric is showing. And those words don't appeal to the majority of the 99%.
Rome was not built in a day. A movement big enough to shake the foundations of our economic system needs time to gain speed.
Rome wasn't built in a day...but it burned to the ground in one. :)
"It's all Obama's fault!" is just as nonsensical as the "It's all Bush's fault!" rhetoric.
Take some personal responsibility for the condition your apathy and distraction has left your country in instead of aimless blame game smear tactics.
Well it is the fault of Bush as well as Obama's and the fact that people were distracted and allowed national affairs to spiral out of control does not absolve Bush or Obama or Clinton and their administrations from responsibility. Government too needs to take 'responsibility'.
It doesn't absolve us either. I don't see that happening on it's own, hence this movement. Time we take responsibility for our apathy and distraction over their lack of responsibility.
Oh I disagree, its very difficult for people to focus on change in between losing their homes or their jobs or are being underpaid and worrying about how they are going to make ends meet. In the meantime many people believed, really believed that the political system would eventually get around to meeting their needs, that's what you call an act of faith. What you are witnessing now is a break of that faith. To focus all responsibility on the citizens is like blaming a date rape victim for going on the date to begin with.
I think you are mistaking the concepts of guilt/blame with responsibility. I'll use your date rape example. If you go on a date, one of the possible outcomes of that date is date rape. Date rape happens, therefore it is a possibility. You, a sentient organism, being aware of this, choose whether to accept the responsibility of that possibility by going on the date. Now the legal, moral or ethical parts of that would confirm that date rape is, in fact, a monstrously horrible thing and the victim of such brutality bears no guilt, blame or complicity. HOWEVER, the reality of the situation is that we never say "Well you were responsible!" to a date rape victim precisely for the reason that one of extremely complex issues of dealing with a rape has to do with the victim's guilt. Inflaming that would be heartlessly cruel.
Furthermore, this has been a gradual, on going slide. The pyramid of layers of policies on top of layers policies was being built for decades. The apathy, stemming from the erosion of having any meaningful voice in government has been just as on going so trying to package this whole debacle into the last few years is overly simplistic. I.e. the root of this predates the housing bubble bursting.
It's time to stopping victims of a government that doesn't represent us and bring control of that government back to who it rightfully belongs to: Americans. Government isn't going to take responsibility of this situation until we take responsibility for government and all the moral or ethical rightness in the world isn't going to change that.
Ah, victims of date rape dont' always feel guilt, as a matter of fact they usually don't but sometimes they are shamed into guilt. Your example doesn't hold up since its possible to be raped on any date. Your argument is that anyone choosing to get out of bed, unlock their door and go on a date has to take responsibility. People do not refrain from telling a victim they are responsible because they are hold responsibility, they are not told because it is an unfair allocation of guilt and a form of shaming.
As the movement has grown and remained in the streets and in the news you are here complaining that they have to take responsibility when they are. They are not apathetic, they are attempting to have their voice heard. So what is it you are complaining about? That it isn't the fault of government? Bush or Obama? That the rapist doesn't carry more blame than the victim? You have some very shaky reasoning there.
Please reread the first post. Then reread my initial post. This is a thread with the OP proclaiming one person as being the sole source of the problem. Let me C&P the first line of that post:
I'll restate it again: my post has nothing to do with who's fault it is. In fact my post says the EXACT OPPOSITE. "...aimless blame game smear tactics." is what I said. All three of those descriptors are pretty clearly negative. As in that I dislike it. I think poorly of it. As is the part where I mentioned. Blaming either Obama or Bush as nonsensical. Shouldn't we be inclusive rather than exclusive? What possible gain do we have in demonizing either the right or left's most recent president? What does blaming one of them do other than alienate people?
Now, what are YOU complaining about? That I'm asking Americans to take responsibility for the condition that their country is in, being as this is supposed to be a country by the people, for the people, clearly we have been lax in maintaining that. You seem, to my mind, to be suggesting that people not take responsibility, i.e. not join the Occupy protests, not have a voice in politics, not do anything constructive, but instead meekly blame someone for their troubles. Maybe we could all just lie down and it will solve itself?
I'm not the one complaining you are. You're the one who's complaining about responsibility. The OP points to the current POTUS and that is not an unfair assertion, the fact that there are other problematic factors doesn't make the assertion any less true and I don't find it nonsensical that anyone points that out. I am asserting that Americans ARE taking responsibility, americans are trying to be heard no matter which political leaning they hail from. If the Occupy movement doesn't show this plainly then I don't know what does. You are complaining that people are not taking responsibility when they are camping out in the streets, rallying, risking arrest and pepper spray.
Oh sure, and next you'll be telling me that there is little difference between the two main political parties.
Indeed. This goes back long before they were even born. Dec. 23, 1913 is a good starting point.
Then there is this... http://www.un.org/esa/dsd/agenda21/index.shtml
Do you genuinely believe that in a Corporatist State the elected officials have any real control over events? Special interests with their big money in tow merely need to rear their ugly heads and war chests at any politician daring to speak against them and said politician's fear of being un-elected takes hold and he tows the line accordingly.
Thomas Jefferson once said “Every generation needs a new revolution.” Does this put him on your list of "SOCIALIST PINKO COMMIE Community Organizers".
He also said “Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms (of government) those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny”
These days you can substitute "tyranny" for Corporatism...or Fox News.
Obama is a centrist at best, and by the standards of other western democracies he would be considered a conservative.
Industries have already been deregulated, taxes have already been cut.
Stupid people make me depressed.
Socialist agenda? Are you kidding? Obama is practically a Republican in his positions concerning the financial sector and his health plan was borrowed from Mitt Romney. He's no socialist, he's not even a real democrat! I agree that people need jobs. Your assertion that 'hippies' want to 'steal' from the working class makes no logical sense since its the working class whom are losing their homes and jobs. What can anyone 'steal' or ask of them? This movement is about financial equity, its against corporate corruption and the revolving door between the white house and the financial sector. Its against powerful lobbyists working for deregulation on behalf of the financial sector. Its against having our public officials brought and paid for by the financial sector.
Obama is not a socialist, and a communist. I am a socialist, and I can tell you, he does not represent me or my views.
He is a puppet of the rich helping the rich.
We definitely don't need to deregulate the markets. That's what got us into this mess. There weren't enough regulations for the banks who were giving out the sub-prime mortgages. Those banks didn't care how risky the loan was because they just sold them to AIG who could repackage them into mortgage backed securities. The mortgages were high risk deals and when the borrowers stopped paying, the whole system crashed like a house of cards. If we had had better regulations on how much risk a bank was able to undergo, we would not have had the collapse of the markets in 2008.
You can call Obama a commie or whatever you want...I personally think we need someone who is going to actually change the campaign finance laws and change some things about the fed...but calling him such and such isn't going to help a damn thing. Just as calling OWSers crazy hippies isn't helpful either.
Obama is DEFINITELY not a communist. He took plenty of money from wall street for his campaign. Obviously we want to put people back to work. Do you think any politician actually wants to increase the nearly 10% unemployment rate? I think the Democrats suck too so don't take this the wrong way...but the problem with Republicans is they don't give a shit about the content of any legislation, they just want to demonize it if it came from Obama. But the truth is there's a jobs bill on the table now rife with Republican policies and they won't make a move on it. So if more jobs is the answer, which you seem to think it is, then why won't the pass the jobs bill?
Barack Obama is a puppet, as was Bush..cant anyone see this..?
OK; hold on a sec. About taxes:
At this point the tax codes do need reforming, but "reforming the tax code" and "cutting taxes" are not the same thing. What we have right now is essentially a maze of Swiss cheese comprised of differing federal, state and local taxes. I choose that analogy because the ordinary guy who plays by the rules and pays his taxes when they come due no matter how onerous gets lost in the maze and finds his bank account half empty by the time it's over with because of burgeoning property taxes, obscure little rules, etc. while the millionaire or large corporation has the option of hiring a lawyer (or posse thereof), finding every single hole in the tax code, and proceeding to drive a Humvee through it.
What does this have to do with you? If you hear the words "progressive taxation" and immediately think "Shit. There goes my savings..." then it has everything to do with you. When most people think of taxes they think of property taxes, gas taxes, sales taxes, etc. that never seem to go down or go away and look like a really nasty way of nickel-and-diming you out of your hard-earned money. And, in fact, they probably are: consumption and property taxes tend to be among the most regressive forms of taxation and you are right to want relief.
Here's how tightening the tax code and even modestly raising federal income taxes on a national level may help you out: the types of taxes that I outlined above are generally administered on a state and/or local level to directly subsidize hospitals/schools/roads/etc. in your neighborhood. Nobody likes them, but they're a necessary means of balancing state and local budgets when federal grants can't keep pace with community reinvestment. Put simply, if administering and maintaining a top--flight high school costs $80 million per year and your district only gets $50 million from the federal and state governments, that extra $30 million has to come from somewhere.
If the wealthiest Americans and corporations paid out the actual nominal tax rates upfront to both the feds and the state governments (for those states with income and corporate taxes), then it might well be possible for everyone from the working class guy to the upper-middle class guy to have their cake and eat it too. More money in the federal coffers equals more money that the feds can give to state and local governments for things like schools and roads, and thus less money these governments have to raise on their own. This then means that many of the most onerous state and local taxes (including the hated property taxes) would stop going up and in certain cases might even go down without any reduction in services provided.
What people need to know is that real tax reform won't hurt them a bit if they've been playing by the spirit of the law and not the letter; closing loopholes and "redistribution of ill-gotten gains" or however else they're going to see it posted here is simply a catchier way of saying that we want to put the letter of the law back in line with the spirit in which it was enacted. Now, if you've gotten accustomed to working the loopholes and looking to pay as close to no taxes as possible, then that should be a scary prospect. If, on the other hand, you've been doing things the right way all along you should welcome us; if everyone else starts paying their fair share the way you already do, that actually translates to less civic and financial responsibility for you.
Jobs will come when there is demand. No one is going to create jobs if he doesnt have to produce more just because he has money. Thats the reason companies arent creating jobs and sitting on cash. They dont see the need to produce more.
Reduce one form of taxes and you will find yourself swimming in another...It is called "Profit". Bechtel in Bolivia.
Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws.- Mayer Amschel Rothschild(1744-1812) Your ignorance precedes you. Please allow me to draw your attention that this guy DIED 200 years ago...
This is such crap! I am so sick of people like this that thinks that if it looks like a duck, if it quakes like a duck, then it must be a duck.
What nonsense!
Conservative2011, have you ever thought that maybe your Boss is stealing from you. Your dignity, your time, your anatomy, your rights? He wouldn't have a dime if he couldn't make you his slave.
LOL, can't believe you would be so naive, to come to our website with this B.S.
obama does not have a socialist agenda. obvious troll is obvious. with so many real and good reasons to need to take out the trash, its ludicrous to generate fake stupid evil right wing propaganda lies and spin doctored nonsense against him.
deregulation is how we got into this mess. while most of the regulations we have are garbage, it is the propper place of government to regulate industry so that corporations aren't evil.
you have reversed and spun and lied about what we want and are about. We want the stealing thats going on where the rich are legally stealing and the IRS is legally stealing and the FED bank is legally stealing to stop, and we want just laws that make those things crimes- which they are in any case.
Quit lying an running amok.
obvious troll is obvious.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/dangers-of-unmoderated-forums/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/purple-dialogue/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/its-time-the-occupy-movement-as-a-whole-become-a-m/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/corporate-oligarchy/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/thetruth-socialismcapitalismcommunismmarxism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-versus-corporatism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/no-war/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/help-me-understand/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-a-love-story/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/sociology/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/energy-101-solution/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ethics/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/break-your-left-right-conditioning/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/nader-kucinich-and-paul/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/5-facts-you-should-know-about-the-wealthiest-one-p/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/i-am-homeless-joe-jp-morgan-chase-accidentally-for/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/can-we-end-the-fed/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-end-the-federal-reserve-and-what-do-you-replac/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/where-are-we-and-how-do-we-move-forward/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/things-wall-st-did-were-not-illegal/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/teaching-the-occupation/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-forum-needs-structure/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-not-your-personal-billboard-for-your-politi/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/systems-theory-primer/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/organize-inform-take-action-effect-change/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/better-website-needed/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-playing-the-devils-games/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/nonviolence-the-only-path/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-not-against-capitalism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-is-not-about-political-stripe-it-is-about-bas/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/national-initiative-for-democracy/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-third-political-party-the-movement-of-the-middle/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/300-fema-camps/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-a-false-flag-operation/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-this-will-not-work/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/paradigm-shift-now/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-proposal-for-focus/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-the-bullshit-posts-and-get-organized/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/suggested-goals/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/oct-18-gao/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/naomi-klein-climate-change-fight-is-down-to-the-99/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/only-1-demand-includes-all-others-article-v-of-the/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/occupy-eco-villages/
What? Out trolling for Fox News? Really? Conscious thought is usually a precondition of meaningful discussion, not this kind of re-spewing of partially digested reactionary talking points.
Obama has become a puppet. I don't think he does anything anymore but come up with half-assed ideas that get killed by the house or the senate. Say hello to the new Jimmy Carter. He preached change but chickened out when it got hard. Glad to say I didn't vote for him but I can't say that electing people to make up our minds is a great idea. People should be deciding policies that effect their everyday lives and not for people with an alternative agenda.
Please watch this and maybe you'll see things differently. We really need to know what the true issues are if we're going to discuss these issues in an effective way. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNRVRbpJMP0
he passed a law that requires you to BUY health insurance. so either you're a sh!t starter or really dumb.
Deregulation equals greed run amok. Look what the power companies did to California some years back. Cable companies are deregulated, not to mention the banks when they created the huge mess we're now in. And no, those "crazy hippies" just want to take A LITTLE from the top 1%. You can keep your money and continue to send it in to that good for nothing organization called the Republican National Committee.
Oh for fuck's sake... I forget how stupid people are sometimes. All buzzwords, no evidence.
Although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management Group of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategic Legal Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures
Join
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
if you want to support a Presidential Candidate – myself – at AmericansElect.org in support of the above bank-focused platform.
Did you go to public school? You're a socialist.
Did you drive a car today? You're a socialist.
Are you above the age of 65? You're a socialist.
Did you use tap water today? You're a socialist.
Did you stop at a stop sign today? You're a socialist.
Did you play with your kids in the park? You're a socialist.
Did you file a tax return this year? You're a socialist.
It's not Obama's socialism as much as his fascism that is the problem. Along with all the other fascists such as Bush.
Let see, I think you'll get paid for this one as it appears that you've used quite a few Republican talking points.
Just an FYI though, we all have to breathe so you may want to rethink that deregulation bit.
Conservative,
Do you really think all the problems of this nation started in the past 3 years? If you do, you are a foolish human being.
Yes, Obama is a problem. Not because he's liberal or conservative but because he doesn't serve the American people. He serves lobbyists and the corporations of this nation.
Finally, deregulation of the industries is a wonderful plan except that it doesn't take into account human greed. The problem is that corporations behave in a childish and selfish manner to increase the bottom line for stakeholders. This means that doing the right thing equals doing the cheapest thing. Prior to the EPA, corporations simply polluted the homes of the surrounding citizens without qualms because it was cheaper than doing it right. Love Canal was a blatant example of this type of behavior. The repeal of the Glass-Steagall act directly lead to the biggest economic crisis this country has ever seen.
Corporations cannot be trusted to police themselves. It's too much power for someone to handle and not abuse.
Conservative2011, you have NO IDEA how the tax code works, do you? Considering your brain is about the size of a paramecium, let me see if I can shine a bit of light in the vast emptyness of your skull.
Let's see. Tax code during the 90's was higher than what Obama was proposing. And what happened?
Massive economic boom.
Why is that?
Our tax code is structured so that if you are in the upper income percentile, you are taxed MORE. BUT if you INVEST THAT MONEY in BUSINESS OR REAL ESTATE, you get a TAX BREAK.
Result?
Higher taxes forced people in the upper income bracket to INVEST IN BUSINESS EXPANSION, STARTUPS, ENTERPRISES, REAL AND COMMERCIAL ESTATE. CREATING MORE JOBS.
And then what happens. Bush cuts taxes, and did we get more jobs?!
Nope. Net jobs were lost in the last ten years was almost 10% of all jobs.
But apparently you're too stupid to understand that. I really, truly do hope you do business. I'm an entrepreneur. You'd be the easiest competition to get rid of with you being that dumb.
Are you High, pro big business republicans and their protect the rich at all cost is the problem. Go exercise you 2nd amendment right and kill yourself
Are you High, pro big business republicans and their protect the rich at all cost is the problem. Go exercise you 2nd amendment right and kill yourself
The real problem is what people like you describe as the President's Socialist agenda isn't going anywhere far enough to bring about social, financial, and judicial equality.
That's because people like Conservative2011 aren't even conservative, and they have no idea what socialism is. However, if you've seen the backers of the Tea Party, they are most definitely fascist... and unbelievably ignorant. I should know. I used to be a part of the Tea Party until it got hijacked by the neo-cons and corporate fascists.
Do you know how many politicians in Washington D.C. are MILLIONAIRES? Do you know how many of them hold investments in the companies you are protesting?
Do some research people.
DE-regulate? I'm sorry. You do realize the deregulation in the 80's perpetrated by reagan got us into this, right? a book i would highly reccomend to you is "the shock doctrine" by niaomi klien.
Having self-identified himself as a Nazi, Conservative2011 should be shipped off to Nuremberg for trial
Demand is what creates jobs.
Deregulating the industry won't create demand. All it will do is bring down the minimum wage, reduce benefits and working conditions.
This might lower outsourcing but it won't stop technological automation, nor the poverty, nor the environmental destruction or the continued privatization of public assets.
Already people working full time cannot make ends meet. How is impoverishing them further going to help the situation?
If anything, job numbers will end up decreasing because workers. You give them less money, the less profits your business makes, the less demand.
Aside from that, Congress is corrupted by the influence of capital.
Whatever decisions are made by the government are made not for the benefit of the public, but for private business interests. That is the real problem which most people here agree on - the power of corporations.
Small configurations within this system will not resolve the crisis.
Just which reactionary, right-wing buddy of yours is going to put people to work? Business adds staff when the demand is up. For the demand to be up, the economy has to be working. That means the money is circulating, not tied up in offshore accounts, or Bahamas Real Estate, or private jets while the company is laying off employees! No one expects Captialism to cease to exist, but Cronyism? Corruption? Fraudulent Investments? We can all do without any of these.
You're probably looking down on the protesters while you sip your champagne and type your BS!
This is the same old Reaganistic bullshit and trickle-down lies. Obama was very far from being a socialist, and if anything, we need to go farther in that direction. Universal non-corporate health care for all is a great place to start. Tax the rich at a higher rate and create government jobs, if necessary, until everyone is back to work. Pump funding into the social safety net, and limit CEO pay. There you have it. http://sibob.org/wordpress/
I am all for Obama's "socialist" agenda. No problem for me there.
Duuuuuuh!
Here is a way out
Though more and more people have realized the injustice of the society, and protested, most still don't know what is the right way. voice, if diverse, will be weakened and hardly be effective. so, here, we suggest a possible way for your consideration.
People's voice should be consistently like this:
1) To the government and the capitalists: you are elits and were granted the capital and power based on our trust on you. However you abuse your wisdom for gathering your own wealth; you abuse your power and military force for maintaining your governing. So, you have no right anymore to control the capital and materials, and to lead the army. You should either whole-heartedly serve the people, or give up and let those who have a higher wisdom as well as mercy to lead us and control the capital.
2) To all the monopoly : you should give up the aim of pursuing maximum profits, and change the aim into minimizing the costs and the labor time but should not fire the workers or reduce the payment for the reason of improved productivity and reduced costs. the enterprises are not yours, but us all human beings. If you feel reluctant to serve us all, you should leave your position and let all the people to chose the managers of the enterprises.
3) To all the citizens on the Earth: We should be united. We should all be benevolent and selfless, should advocate virtue and high spiritual pursuit. We should make the global enlightment and the global material and spiritual freedom our common goal and struggle for it whole-heartedly.
http://tieba.baidu.com/p/1243298546
I notice this hit and run troll poster hasn't responded to himself or anyone else. Must just be trolololololing...
This is some of the most uninformed blather I have ever read, yet it is typical of those who marinate in Rupert Murdoch's filth. We are the intellectuals, the aware. Who are you to call us names and tell us what to think?? You, and your ilk, will be steamrolled by this movement... and good riddance!
Sigh. This website sure brings out the nutters, hunh?
I wouldn't call the one's who call Obama a socialist a "nutter". That would be too complimentary. These are people who consider a book to be kryptonite. Bring a book near them, especially a book explaining political systems and what the actual definition of "socialism" is, show them Obama's true actions (like stacking all the corporate cronies in his employ), and you'd induce in them a frenzied epileptic shaking. After they recover they display their true selves as brainless zombies.
You're talking about people who have a brain the size of a sand grain, and the verbal capacity of a "durrrrr, durrrr, duhhhhh, Glen Beck is God, durrrrrr"
But Wall Street doesn't create JOBS - it creates DIVIDENDS.
It USED to create dividends! Now profits go to bonuses and huge salaries not stockholders!
Wall Street doesn't create jobs or create dividends.
Wall Street LOOTS whole nation's of taxpayers, which is why it's GREAT when they fail. And GREAT when they win. Notice they haven't been winning very often? But man, when they fail, business is GREAT for them.
Makes me mad as hell.
Agreed, but we need him out sooner. Impeach Obama!