Forum Post: Now That You Are In Bed With Nancy Pelosi, Obama, and The Unions, Where Is This Movement Going?
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 10, 2011, 9:40 p.m. EST by MikeInOhio
(13)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I’m very curious to learn how the movement is going to succeed when you align yourselves with the likes of Nancy Pelosi and the unions? Talk about corruption and wealth! It seems to me you are rapidly heading down a slippery slope that cannot be reversed.
You've misphrased it. They've aligned themselves with us. Pelosi and Obama are only two people. Whether or not they are with us doesn't matter and doesn't change our goals. They are not the leaders of this movement.
As far as unions, I'm of the opinion union MEMBERS should be welcomed. They don't get special treatment though. Everyone speaks with their own voice.
Excellent points. Quite frankly, I agree with everything you said.
Ok. But the TEA Party didn't choose Sarah Pailn either, yet everyone believed it. How do you stop it when what most people see on all the networks is these people aligned with the movement?
They did not reject her, either. But, I think it would be very powerful if both would come together. There are a lot of simular goals that could be reached if we could rid ourselves of the Democrat and Republican Parties.
No, that's true. But the only rejections I'm seeing of these "supporters", regardless of what network you watch or read, are in this forum. The majority would consider silence to mean agreement. Not being argumentative, so please don't misunderstand me! But some will wonder why there is not a very strong, public line drawn. I don't see any signs held up that disclaim their involvement. Support or not will be based on wide spread public opinion, won't it? I also agree with your statement about some similarities. But, there is so much, even in this forum, that is just "out there", like there was in what was reported about the TEA Party, that I wonder if/when cooperation could really be reached.
Valid points. I think the answer is that you inform yourself, then you inform others. This is the information age, we can't complain we aren't equipped. We can't change what the major broadcasting networks say, but we've been making progress (e.g. the most recent NYTimes article). We need to keep that momentum up.
If the goal of OWS is an end to crony capitalism/corporate corruption, then Tea Party goals are identical to those of OWS. Either way, there is no need for the two groups to come together. The only real political action is going to happen at the ballot box, when corrupt leaders from either party will be voted out. Barack Obama is at the top of that list.
1st point: I think they do need to come together. The Us vs. Them sports team mentality (e.g. those bleeding heart liberal! OR fascist right wing nut job!) is the puppet show we've all been strung along by. I've had enough of it! No more! Find common ground and work together.
2nd point: Demonizing Obama is a mistake, as is demonizing any other president. He's definitely not the solution, but neither is he the root of the problem. These issues have been festering for a long time and he's just one person. Let's try not to focus on who or what is to blame as that's alienating and not constructive for anyone. Instead let's focus on what we can agree on and how we can accomplish it!
Reading this thread I saw a glimmer of hope.
I must point out though Obama IS a major issue. This man is no leader. We need a leader in the WH. You may not have liked Bush or Clinton, Reagan, doesn't matter who.
But you have to agree that these men were in fact leaders! ( I did not mention Carter because he was not a leader either}
Change will come and it will be in Nov next year. This movement should be at the White House.
Why do you allow the WH the insulation of Wall St? You are plating into Obamas hand?
we need to get corruption out of the Whitehouse, the house and senate. I am not an Obama supporter anymore, but I have come to realize that the office of Presedent has lost any power they have had (except for the power of veto). Our government and our Media are OWNED, and it is not by us (the 99%)
With regards to Obama and my lack of comment on him, I'm attempting to keep this debate party neutral and non-partisan. The Us vs. Them, Right vs. Left (etc.) sports team mentality is a deadlocked puppet show that serves only to distract us from making any real progress. Further more, let's just say I'm a little jaded to the idea of one person in the oval office, regardless of their party, making changes.
That glimmer of hope is pretty sweet isn't it?
We'll you are wrong about that. When you have a real leader you will get change. One way or the other. This guy is a buffoon.
To say the discussion is not political is like saying babies don't come from having sex.
It is political so stop trying to sugar coat to make it nice nice so we can all get along.
Some serious mind bending needs to happen right now.
Fuck the left and vote the other way. Demand that your elected officials change how we do biz.
The difference between the right and the left is... the left gets elected telling you what They think you should believe .... the right gets elected listening to what we believe in.
Hotdog, what are you smoking? I hate both sides of that politcal coin, but they are both getting rich off of our ignorance. If you are ignorant enough to believe that the "right" is listening to you, then you shoud just go back to sleep.
You misunderstand me. This is an intensely political debate. This movement, however, is non-partisan (meaning it doesn't favor a political party).
I've seen the left in power. I've seen the right in power. I've seen both of these across multiple levels of government. The end result is always the same. I can say that because here we are! Until we end the corporate influence over government, the Demopublicans and Republocrats are indistinguishable to me.
I can somewhat agree with that statement. However I believe that it is the compromise with the left that leads us to where we are today.
When you get down to brass tacks the left is out of touch and really always has been.
Its is not about a political party. I vote republican because I have no other choice. There is no Conservative on the ballot other than the Republican.
The crazy thing is that the left and the right really have more in common than most could imagine. It's the extreme on both sides that keeps us all apart.
Hotdog, the crazy thing is that you are still voting the republican ballot, Anyone who wants change in this country needs to vote for someone other than a democrat or republican. My opinions tend to be libertarian, and that is where I place my vote a lot of the time. There are so many voices out there that are crying to be heard, and the politicians in Washington are not representing any of those voices. They are representing those that paid to get them in office, Enough is enough.
What we need is someone that is not a career politician. Watch the debate tonight. Zero on Cain and listen to him. He's different.
Remember Pelosi? "Were gonna clean out the swamp". She is the swamp! Just so you understand, I may vote for republican candidates but not on that party line ever!. There is no chance that a 3rd party candidate will win, so I don't for them. That's a waste. I think I am more libertarian as well. I don;t go for all the religious stuff some of the right spews. I'm not into Ron Paul, I don't go for the isolationism thing either. This idea that 9/11 is our fault is moronic.
why is it moronic? Why are people afraid to consider ideas that go against their beliefs? Are we not messing around in other countries? If you think it through, we have pissed off a lot of people. If we used our army for defense instead of offense, maybe people wouldn't be angry. Are we so infallible? Anything bad that happens has to be someone else's fault? Americans need to learn much about the rest of the world. Otherwise they are going to keep us divided and ignorant like we are now.
The only chance we have is to vote for someone that is not corrupted by Wallstreet/multi global corperations. I do not want to see Obama in office again, but I will take him over any of the republican candidates. I am really hoping that the public can act outside of the box and create a new box. As long as we believe what our broadcasters are telling us, we are screwed. Our only hope is each other (and most of the public agrees with each other on basic things.)
If you vote for Obama again, don't complain. You'll get more of the same. Wall St has given him more money than any presidential candidate in history. They OWN him! He has to go. He has $1billion in campaign funds right now! Yes that was a B! I have no sympathy for those of you here that out of work, losing your ass and you vote for these morons. The left is the problem. All the social programs, no fiscal responsibility, Trying to govern through regulation and increase govt doesn't work.
So go ahead and vote for asshole again, but don't come crying to me.
I will not. I will go back to my old voting habits and "throw my vote away". I jumped back in the box in the last presidential election, I am now firmly back outside the box.
I think your first point is exactly the point I made in my comment.
Regarding your second point, unless you focus on the problem you will never fix it. Perhaps you would rather focus on corporate greed, but fighting an emotion, like greed, is as useless as fighting terror. There are things this group can't do, like fire Jeff Immelt of GE for not paying taxes, and things this group can do, like getting rid of politicians who enable people like Jeff Immelt who don't pay their taxes.
My recommendation would be to forget about the things you cant do and focus on the things you can do.
I'm completely uninterested in fighting 'greed.' I won't tell other people how to protest, but I think signs about "End corporate greed" are vague and facilitating the main stream media's intentional misunderstanding of this movement.
What I am interested in doing is fighting corporate influence in government, in both the electoral process and the legislating process. In my mind, that's the root of our woes and the logical first step that everyone (right, left, and everything in between) can get behind.
I'll agree it is a noble goal. About as noble as feeding every hungry child, and curing all the sick. Its about as difficult to achieve as well, unless you have a non-vague solution to recommend.
Have a look at Charlie Rangle. The guy took down a half a million dollars in rental income from his undeclared vacation home in the Caribbean. If that were you or I, we would be sitting in jail for tax evasion. The result for Rangle? He had to pay his back taxes and got a scolding on the floor of congress. He also just got re-elected to office.
There are already laws on the books against this type of thing, yet they are not enforced. The only true enforcement is going to happen when people insist on it. We aren't there yet, but the Tea Party was a good start and the OWS protests are shaping up. We'll see how long it takes for the MSM to turn us into pariahs.
I have faith that this is an attainable goal. This is the most attainable goal of this movement. Frankly, if we can't change this, nothing will come of this movement. Generally I've seen people pushing slightly different versions around about this; most have four simple points about ending lobbying, corporate electoral donations, term limits, etc... You can take a look at those yourself; their are several posts on this website. The important part is that we all, as Americans, demand that this issue is resolved.
I don't think we'll ever totally stamp out government corruption, THAT's an unrealistic goal. But I won't accept that the current level of corruption is the best we can do.
We can make it happen. The very first step to making that happen is believing that we can make it happen. If we don't believe, we'll never get it.
I'm unfamiliar with the Rangle case, and thus don't want to speak in ignorance, but if what you say is both accurate and representative of the truth, that is truly vile.
A couple points.
1) Familiarize yourself with the Rangle case. He is a Democrat, but Republicans do it too. It strikes at the hopelessness of creating laws that will not be enforced
2) On campaign finance, Obama had committed to take only public money in 2008 just like John McCain, until he discovered he could outraise McCain 5-1, at which point he decided not to run an even race based on values. Obama is a Democrat, but I can't see anyone from either party not doing the same. McCain Feingold(familiarize yourself with that as well, since you seem to care) tried to get the money out, but had the net effect of disassociating politicians from the groups that supported them, making politics that much dirtier. On the bright side, money is a factor, but not a decider. If you wanted to have a better result on elections, you would require voters to take standardized tests to exhibit at least a basic knowledge of the issues and people they were voting for. Uninformed voters make for bad election results.
3) OWS can and will have an effect. No, you can't draft legislation ending lobbying, or campaign donations, or term limits, but you can hold elected officials accountable for failure and corruption, regardless of party. When we our elected officials are made accountable for their actions, they will start acting accordingly.
1) I'll look into it. Not tonight, I'm tired. : /
2) Obama and public money... Yes, I remember that. McCain Feingold, I'll look into that. Standardized tests... A good idea in theory, but that's a potentially deadly weapon in the wrong hands.
3) I'm sure as hell trying and sure as hell trying to convince everyone else too.
Hear! Hear!
I want to keep voting this response up and up and up!
I'm a union member and I agree with this 100%
You are spot-on on that.
great points
You simply see if they act or just talk. Will Obama and Pelosi actually truly do what needs to be done?
Ex. Real tax Reform, Real Campaign Reform where Corporations will not be able to buy politicians.
OK. Enjoy your union friends. I don't think you will enjoy their company.
Update: The movement is going nowhere due to nonexistent leadership.
Except the unions
Don't feed the TROLLS
Don't be afraid of debate. If your positions are so great why do you worry about trolls?
Are you in Bed with Cantor and Bohner and the rest of the Republicans and Tea Partiers???
No, I'm really not a teapartier. I just find it hypocritical.
Unfortunatly all the Republican party wants to do is give tax breaks to the rich. All we hear is that"It Creates Jobs" for years now since the 90's. Well if that was true we would have never have gotten into a recession. Republicans can careless about the common man. It's a shame because they were never like that until the late 90's. They ruined their party. Now people all across the USA are starting to see that. They need to get those two caracters out of there and have someone like Chris Christy head it up. He maybe the Republicans next Regan.
I feel much the same way. I look at it as the lesser of two evils.
Republicans have definitely strayed from their course. That is why I post on this site.
I am not. Make your voice heard. Even this movement will have to bow down to people from ALL walks of life with one common goal. Or else 99% is just a catchy slogan and this movement will fail.
Who's in bed with them, what we most immediately need is a comprehensive strategy, and related candidate, that implements all our demands at the same time, and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management System of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategic Legal Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures
Join
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
if you want to be 1 of 100,000 people needed to support a Presidential Candidate – such as myself or another you'd like to draft – at AmericansElect.org in support of the above bank-focused platform.
I keep hearing about people not trusting the system. Then they are for or agains someone who is in the system. Unions made common cause because of all the anti union sentiment in government (bought and paid for). I believe the members should come individually but if not, then as a group if need be. The movement needs the numbers and supports collective bargaining by way of its statement of grievances. So to say you are anti union yet support the goals of the group makes no sense to me. Special treatment? No. Not even John Lewis got that.
I'm sorry, but I have certain standards in my life. I don't associate with criminals. I made a decision a long time ago that certain people have standards that I do not agree with. I simply don't agree with anything in the union culture.
Then you should stay far away from Wall Street.
I will. But I will continue to tell their story.
the wet couch makes a lot of sense... whether people align themselves to the cause , The movement should move progressively towards attainable goals first and worry about the complicated stuff later as the movement gains momentum.
Thank you for commenting, gemini. Doesn't that make more sense than absurd demands?
There are a lot of great comments here, I wish I could have read them all before I posted. One great outcome for this movement could be what Franklin Delano Roosevelt called the Second Bill of Rights. In this constitutional amendment he called for fair wage employment, freedom from unfair competition and monopolies, housing, medical care, education, and social security. He argued that this was America's real ticket to guarantee its security. Here is a link to the youtube video of his address:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EZ5bx9AyI4
If we pushed congress and the president to enact this, wall street wouldn't be able to rob as us they did.
Obama is a supporter of corporate and elite motives. However, he is able to see the marketability of a movement like this to a younger crowd. It is likely that he will use his stance on OWS as leverage for re-election. Remind those that you walk with on the streets that our political leaders are not going to solve our problems, and that false promises is all they know. Every move they make is, at the core, to serve the elite groups that brought them where they are. When, and only when, the banks are fully relinquished of power, a debt-free currency is issued, and corporate constitutionalism is abolished will we see progress in our failed society. Ron Paul is our best hope but I will only celebrate once his promises are fulfilled.
Welcome to the BIG TENT. This movement is about the direction of America and the care of its Citizens. All should be welcomed and all should focus on thing and be held accountable for it.
Sovereign Rule of the Economy and elimination of money in the political process.
Great, I look forward to it. I look forward to a vigorous debate!
The next thing we're going to do is get in bed with Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, and Fox News. They'd love to screw over the OWS.
They would, given the chance. No doubt about it.
end bush tax cuts , rebuild America bridges and roads , invest in middle class not banking class thats the occupy wall street message.
We're aligning ourselves with everyone. We want other conservatives to join, but unfortunately, we're being demonized. Glenn Beck said that we were going to drag people into the streets and kill them.
I myself have been guilty of battling internally the old right/left paradigm. Even though the majority of us have MORE in common than not, the core beliefs of freedom and liberty from oppression are there and shared. I am reminded of this whenever I visit this site. Forgive me if I transgress my beliefs. I am an American, first!
Let me tell you something, I have more faith in your opinion that Glenn Beck's opinion. I'm not running my mouth because I want to defeat you. I want you to succeed in a manner that has a positive effect on everyone.
We need more conservatives and instead, the conservatives seem to be listening to the right wing media and attacking us... while the liberals can't stop trying to push their agenda while insulting the conservatives back.
Divide and conquer. The British did it to Ireland and apparently the powers that be learned well over here, we just opted for politics over religion.
I would add that the "conservatives", in the manner you are referring, that being the neo-conservatives are media controlled, as much as many are in this country. The key seems to be to avoid what many are saying on this forum, avoid the divide and conquer techniques. It is difficult to avoid, but when one feels emotional over a topic, it is time to step back and assess the situation and find our common ground...then focus on that point.
Think about how ridiculous the Protestant-Catholic violence was. They both believe in almost precisely he same thing, yet they killed each other for years. Scottish protestants, Irish catholics, republicans, democrats.
Neither party is worth spit, and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management Group of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategic Legal Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures
Join
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
if you want to support a Presidential Candidate Committee at AmericansElect.org in support of the above bank-focused platform.
my answer is, i'm very curious to see and to have your help in making an adult stand for the truth of corporate oligarchy and how much we need to just take out ALL the TRASH.
please help me do that by generating a long and concise list of proofs that the dems are corporate oligarchs not our true allies.
thanks.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/corporate-oligarchy/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/thetruth-socialismcapitalismcommunismmarxism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-versus-corporatism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/no-war/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/help-me-understand/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-a-love-story/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/sociology/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/energy-101-solution/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ethics/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/break-your-left-right-conditioning/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/nader-kucinich-and-paul/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/5-facts-you-should-know-about-the-wealthiest-one-p/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/i-am-homeless-joe-jp-morgan-chase-accidentally-for/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/can-we-end-the-fed/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-end-the-federal-reserve-and-what-do-you-replac/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/where-are-we-and-how-do-we-move-forward/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/things-wall-st-did-were-not-illegal/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/teaching-the-occupation/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-forum-needs-structure/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-not-your-personal-billboard-for-your-politi/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/systems-theory-primer/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/organize-inform-take-action-effect-change/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/better-website-needed/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-playing-the-devils-games/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/nonviolence-the-only-path/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-not-against-capitalism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-is-not-about-political-stripe-it-is-about-bas/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/national-initiative-for-democracy/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-third-political-party-the-movement-of-the-middle/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/300-fema-camps/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-a-false-flag-operation/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-this-will-not-work/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/paradigm-shift-now/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-proposal-for-focus/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-the-bullshit-posts-and-get-organized/
I've said it a hundred times the past few days on this forum, and I know we have spoken before. You can look for all the corporate bogeymen that you want, but it is an argument that doesn't hold water.
I don't know who the "trash" is, but I assume I am a part of it.
it does hold water. stop being ignorant and stupid and use the clue by four as gawd intended .
http://www.oligarchyusa.com/
http://www.istockanalyst.com/finance/story/5390832/some-fascinating-stats-about-our-corporate-oligarchy
http://foreignpolicyblogs.com/category/21st-century-challenges/ethicsandeconomics/
According to a 2008 article by David Rothkopf, the world’s 1,100 richest people have almost twice the assets of the poorest 2.5 billion (Rothkopf, 2008). Aside from the obvious problem – that this global elite has their hands in everything from politics to financial institutions – …
http://theprogressiveplaybook.com/2011/09/occupywallstreet-an-american-tahrir/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ght22PnCXy0
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miles-mogulescu/wisconsin-is-ground-zero_b_825321.html
http://last-lost-empire.com/blog/?tag=global-corporate-oligarchy
To the extent that we, the people, are removed from control over our lands, marketplaces, central banks, and media we are no longer empowered. In practice, those few who do control the land, central bank, media and "free market" are the real rulers of our corrupt and declining "democracy."
Due to propaganda from a corporate-owned and edited media we are kept from knowing, much less debating, the nature of our system. Due to a central bank owned by bankers, media owned by a few global concerns, and trade regime controlled by global corporations (i.e., one designed to remove the people from control over their markets and environments) the vast majority have become little more than latter-day serfs and neo-slaves upon a corporate latifundia.
To restore a semblance of effective democracy and true freedom Americans, and people around the world, need to re-educate themselves as to the true nature of their political and economic systems. Toward this end, OligarchyUSA.com is dedicated to providing old and new information, books, links, reform ideas and debates not easily found or accessed today in establishment media.
OligarchyUSA.com is but one more site and sign of the times as ground-up counter-revolutions arise around the world... all in response to a forced and freedomless globalization courtesy of a ruling global elite perfecting their top-down plutocracy and revolutions of the rich against the poor. In short, democracy is no longer effective today. For this reason, it is toward a restoration of truly effective and representative democracies, and natural freedom, that this site is dedicated.
gawd, I want to apologize for some of my past remarks. Truly, we need to stand together, regardless of the idiosyncrasies of our beliefs. I can see you are passionate about freedom and liberty, as am I. I am with you bro.
kewl. i do my best. lets get it done. :)
I don't think I am being ignorant and stupid, I'm just speaking my mind. I simply do not subscribe to the global corporate conspiracy theory. I think it is the result of a paranoid thinking, that's all.
its not a theory, its a simple fact.
It really isn't. It might be in CA, but not here in Ohio. Maybe it's the sun?
lol. no. systems theory and game theory (sciences which are named theories but which are strangely actually both math sciences) both end up absolutely defining these things in an objective way which can be verified with the factual evidence. The USA is a corporate oligarchy. period. It never has been capitalist and it has never been genuinely democratic. Its just smoke and mirrors + feudalism. Any careful look at "republic" shows that republics are oligarchies. period. always been an oligarchy.
and in fact the same is true globally. there has never been a communism nor a democracy- there are only oligarchies with masks on in a giant ball casino con scam of 1100 persons fleecing the rest of us and keeping us as cattle.
You know, you may be right. I had a hard time with statistics and game theory, it simply didn't follow the logic that my brain was accustomed to.
I'm curious as to your background. When did you develop this hypothesis?
i studied. i read 3000 textbooks. i let them lead me to the answers. i didn't develop the hypothesis; its the findings of assorted scientific disciplines.
I really like that. I'm listening, brother.
If you have anything you could send me I would be very interested! I know we have sparred in the past but I'd love to hear more about this.
Regards, Mike
the long list of links i posted is self explantory. we need to talk about game theory and systems theory, and quit bickering about capitalism long enough to learn the truth.
here it is again.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/corporate-oligarchy/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/thetruth-socialismcapitalismcommunismmarxism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-versus-corporatism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/no-war/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/help-me-understand/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-a-love-story/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/sociology/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/energy-101-solution/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ethics/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/break-your-left-right-conditioning/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/nader-kucinich-and-paul/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/5-facts-you-should-know-about-the-wealthiest-one-p/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/i-am-homeless-joe-jp-morgan-chase-accidentally-for/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/can-we-end-the-fed/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-end-the-federal-reserve-and-what-do-you-replac/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/where-are-we-and-how-do-we-move-forward/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/things-wall-st-did-were-not-illegal/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/teaching-the-occupation/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-forum-needs-structure/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-not-your-personal-billboard-for-your-politi/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/systems-theory-primer/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/organize-inform-take-action-effect-change/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/better-website-needed/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-playing-the-devils-games/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/nonviolence-the-only-path/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-not-against-capitalism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-is-not-about-political-stripe-it-is-about-bas/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/national-initiative-for-democracy/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-third-political-party-the-movement-of-the-middle/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/300-fema-camps/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-a-false-flag-operation/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-this-will-not-work/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/paradigm-shift-now/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-proposal-for-focus/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-the-bullshit-posts-and-get-organized/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/suggested-goals/
I agree. Thank you for the links.
"the likes of"
tell me please MikeInOhio, what is perfection like & why don't you utilize it to fix the Polarized States of America
I'd love to tell you, but I have no idea. I can tell you that a union encampment in NYC isn't going to help. If you bring unions into this movement, the State of Ohio is lost. If you lose Ohio, you have a Republican in the White House
encampment, yes. union, no. pelosi, talks just like 310 million other people. unions exist. executives exist. black white. left right. rethuglican democrap. strength weakness. our country is fucked because the balance is fucked. tells me without the 310 million influencing species, theres no country. the balance of the species is fucked.
I simply reject that idea that our country is screwed. All is not lost, it just needs to be bumped in the right direction. That's why I'm doing this, and I'm sure it is why you are too.
I didn't once say the country...Please MikeInOhio no "words in others mouths" games. The species is fucked, not the country. Its like saying repeatedly "the system is broken." Law enforcement officers sanctioned my rape at 8 years old. the system in that instance was fine, they were there. instead they shook the rapists hand in agreement to look the other way. the species is fucked!
I agree with you, but we still have to try. When you said 310 Million I thought you were referring to the country. When you say 7 Billion it is far more frightening.
to bed with you of course lol weeeeeeee
I agree, they joined you, not you joined them, but the fact remains. Pelosi holds a press conference and declares herself the leader of this protest, and those who would say otherwise have their voice lost in a crowd of people who are not speaking with a very unified voice unless fat-ass Michael Moore is leading the chant. Something needs to be done.
Exactly. Why hasn't the movement rebuked Pelosi and Moore. By the way, how much money does Michael Moore have? He seems like a viable "rich" target.
Divide and conquer nonsense.
Oh, come on, Boletus. Divide and conquer what? Do you think an alliance with the unions is a good thing? What does this movement get from the unions?
Millions of hard working Americans, battle-hardened experience at negotiating and implementing political change, not to mention the ability to strike real fear in the hearts of the 1%. Nothing significant, I suppose.
You have any excellent point, but I think the long-term goal will be lost in translation. If this thing turns into a union occupation, I would expect to see a Republican President elected.
More divide and conquer nonsense. Who are you working for?
I'm working for the minds of our youth.
You're not doing a very good job. Maybe you need some more training before they let you out in the wild.
I'm a concerned citizen in my basement, drinking a beer, watching MNF. Det 21 Ch 10, what else can I say?
Put down the beer and football and re-examine your assumptions. This is a serious effort.
I think my assumptions are valid. Please convince me otherwise.
Assumption: the movement has aligned itself with Nancy Pelosi and the unions; wrong. The movement has not changed one iota due to their support.
Assumption: slippery slope that cannot be reversed; what kind of nonsense is that? This is a people-powered movement, not a melon on a water-slide. Every individual makes individual decisions based on the evidence at their disposal. The melon is choosing its own course, for a change.
I don't think so. There is, unfortunately, a political consequence to every action OWS engages in. You should be in the business of winning over hearts and minds, not antagonizing people.
I do that in my spare time. Exactly whom are you afraid of?
I would be more concerned with winning people over, rather than divisiveness.
Right. So, beside Pelosi and "the unions" who else should we prevent from supporting this movement (assuming such a thing were possible)?
It isn't possible, at this point, so I wouldn't worry about it. Once Pelosi is on board the ship is sinking.
Thanks for your vote of confidence.
You're welcome, boletus. I ejnoyed talking with you.
end bush tax cuts , rebuild America bridges and roads , invest in middle class not banking class thats the occupy wall street message.
Rebuild American bridges and roads with union labor, of course. God forbid we actually use non-union private companies.
God forbid you give the 99 a chance
That's what I'm doing! I sit in my basement and type away because I give a damn. As do you.
I just don't think giving the money to union companies is the best choice.
thats why for right now our message should be end bush tax cuts , rebuild America bridges and roads , invest in middle class not banking class thats the occupy wall street message.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/how-many-of-you-would-be-willing-and-dedicated-eno/#comment-57341
Thanks
Obama/Microsoft Illegal Presidential Campaign Contributions 2008
http://expotera-ceo.blogspot.com/2010/05/microsoft-illegal-campaign.html
Your point might be made better on a blackboard. Just saying....
Insult accepted. I'm no Beck lover, I can tell you that.
Think about it, though. I understand the anti-Republican theme, but do you really think it is a good thing to cast your lot with Pelosi and the unions? I really don't think so.
They are aligning with the movement. The movement is not necessarily aligning with them. The unions are one thing, since most of the regular members are average Americans of the 99% who also have some grievances to voice. I do think there should be some fighting back against Democrats endorsing the movement when they are profiting from the Corporations the same way the Republicans are. Both sides of the aisle are corrupt.
Agreed. I think the most effective message would be that 'We the people. may disagree with each other on many issues, but we're not buying it anymore that those in office, republicans and democrats, are representing our interests."
I'll tell you, the more time I spend on this site the more I believe what you are saying. I just can't get on board with any movement, no matter how grass-roots, when the unions supports it. It just stinks of corruption.
The protesters aren't throwing their lot in with Pelosi. Pelosi made one comment on the protests. That doesn't mean she's pulling the strings. I realize you distrust the unions, maybe there are reasons to. But the unions joined the protest because common ideas about protecting the livelihoods of middle and working class people. That also doesn't mean unions are pulling the strings.
You may be right, and I hope you are, I'm just very suspicious of these people. Nancy Pelosi is way too shrewd a politician to endorse a grass-roots cause without a very good reason. I think the Dems feel they can energize the youth vote by latching on.
There a certainly many people in the protests who voted for Obama in the last election. And it is true the dems don't want to lose the votes of people who put them in office. That's politics. Not a conspiracy, just the system we have. It seems like the issue is for politicians to stop trying to pander to us when they are really beholden to large donors and lobbyists. I am afraid we will have to accept though, that this country is made up of people who have very different ideas about what's good for the country. Get the money out of the picture, and hopefully we can have real, respectful debate, share ideas and do something positive for the country.
Thanks, karai, I couldn't have said it better. I guess this is the point where we all need to put our thinking caps on. I'll keep talking, you keep talking, and hopefully we will all reach a consensus that works.
Sounds great to me!
Wall Street laughs at us behind their protective walls as does the President and Congress. Kindred spirits UNITE! We need to expand to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. and take our message to President Obama! Congress also needs to hear us. They both have the power to change things. Things that they created
I agree. This message has to be heard in Congress and The Senate.
Obama is a lame duck, so I wouldn't worry about him.
If Obama is a lame-duck, you are suggesting that some one in the current GOP candidates list will win.
THAT'S SCARY!
:)
Marcus, I liked you better in 169 BCE.
Yes, the party is over for Obama. He will lose to Herman Cain by a bunch, and Mit Romney by a little less.
I think Herman Cain will beat Obama by 7%, and I will be very happy to see that happen.
Name the jews, get violent and then you've got a real movement! Till then the OWS is still sheep in search of shepard. Look the JewSA only understands violence against civilans. Until you get a hold of that they just laugh at you.
I'm not being rude, I just don't understand your point.
end bush tax cuts , rebuild America bridges and roads , invest in middle class not banking class thats the occupy wall street message
end bush tax cuts , rebuild America bridges and roads , invest in middle class not banking class thats the occupy wall street message.
What about Al Sharpton speaking at OWS. Slowly but surely, they are taking over...
he didn't speak. He showed up trying to glam some attention to his radio show.
There was news about it. I guess he's only broadcasting from there.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/65515.html
I can't any videos yet.
By the way, Ed Show on MSNBC is also trying hard to make it look like this is a good thing for the democratic party.
Of course he is. Bleh. The media want an easy story and building this up as a liberal response to the Tea Party is one way to spin it. Unfortunately, it seems like people are letting them do it.
If it does start chasing out conservatives then I'll leave and play in my own little corner. I can't believe how stupid people are to let stupid rivalry stop something like this.
Oh my, I hadn't heard about that. As far as I am concerned Al Sharpton is the kiss of death. He divides people like few others.