Forum Post: Imagine a rEVOLution! Imagine Liberty!
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 10, 2011, 10:18 p.m. EST by RonPaulFlixdotcom
(73)
from Kingsville, TX
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I ask you to imagine a once free America. Imagine an America which promoted individual liberty and personal responsibility, not a welfare state. Imagine an America where the Constitution applied to every person and every case, no matter how bad the crime or criminal at suspect. Imagine an America restrained by the Constitution, due process and the rule of law. Imagine an America devoid of secret watch lists, secret prisons and secret assassinations.
Imagine a moral society which only engaged in just war and only as a last resort. Imagine an America, where the decision to go to war, is actually one declared by congress. Imagine an America which never endorsed the use of preventive wars to promote peace. Imagine an America where torture was never acceptable, even if called "enhanced" interrogation techniques. Imagine an America in which a warrant was always required to search or seize persons or property. Imagine an America which respected the writ of habeas corpus and condemned indefinitely detaining individuals.
Imagine an America where prosperity wasn't derived from private printing presses, but from true wealth. Imagine an America not ravished by endlessly spending a fiat currency in pursuit of economic growth; all the while promoting the welfare and warfare state. Imagine an America which encouraged savings at the same time destroying that very possibility by devaluing their currency through the deceitful act of controlled monetary inflation. Imagine an America where coins were still worth their weight. Imagine an American in which gold and silver were actually legal tender.
Imagine an America where children are not arrested for front yard lemonade stands. Imagine an America where you couldn’t be arrested and jailed for gardening on your property. Imagine an America without checkpoints where blood could be drawn against one's will, and without warrant. I ask you to imagine an America where citizens could make the simple decision to drink raw milk. Imagine an America which valued personal choice and responsibility above dictating morality through law. Imagine an America which allowed companies to actually protect their property and customers. Imagine an America where individuals actually had the right to their life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness as long as they didn’t endanger others.
Imagine if rights are actually derived from creation, and not from government.
Imagine now an America in which citizens understood and respected the experiment of liberty. Imagine now an America which still embraces the tired, the poor, and the huddled masses yearning to breathe free. Imagine now an America where the wretched refuse, the homeless, those searching for a New Colossus could venture to experience liberty. Imagine now America no longer safeguarded the liberty they sought, but only the security and secrecy of the state.
Imagine an America where ignorance isn’t sold as wisdom; and tolerance not delivered by force. Imagine an America where politicians stood behind American principles. Imagine an America where oath to the Constitution was taken seriously and always upheld. Imagine an America of resounding liberty; not one of ever incrementally increasing tyranny. Imagine America as she once was: free and prosperous.
Now try to imagine an idea. Imagine an idea so powerful, so strong in it conviction, no army or government could stop it. Imagine a return of the respect of the Constitution. Imagine a return to due process and the rule of law in all cases. Imagine a return to sound currency and sound monetary policy. Imagine the abolishment of partaking down the dangerous path of legislating morality. Imagine a return to a foreign policy of freedom and not of preemptive wars and nation building. Imagine the return to the ideals of extending friendship to all, and having entangling alliances with no one. Above all else, Imagine Liberty and understand the responsibility having it demands from each of us. Imagine America not as your Empire but as a Republic.
Freedom is a relatively new idea, liberty a young experiment. Imagine this youthful ideal lost to simple apathy and content. Imagine a chance to restore this ideal. Imagine if we had the chance to Restore America Now.
Imagine a Revolution. A Ron Paul Revolution.
For Liberty.
I'm a RP libertarian tea partier too. I've decided that most of the country is not as libertarian as I am. Let's compromise with the OWSers and at least get rid of the Fed and the fascist bankers.
Sensible. As a progressive environmentalist, I've made the same calculation from the other side. Though, getting rid of the fed vs. getting rid of the fed as a secret private bank is still a question. Transparent and public would be my vote.
Crunchy conservative here. Lets do it.
I'm an environmentalist (conversationalist) and (libertarian) conservative. all for it! And I believe a conservative government (with less restriction) leads the way to progress. http://poignantpersuasion.tru.ph
Good link!
Legalize competing currencies and allow the market to choose.
You know, I thought about that but heres a scenario that I can't get out of my head. What if the economy can't sustain multiple currencies and it crumbles? Furthermore, what if not even the strongest one is strong enough to hold the economy together?
wait a minute - the world is crumbling now because we can't sustain multiple fiat currencies! funny how that works. the currency is backed by nothing, banks are allowed to exponentially expand the money supply (aided by the Fed) and then, everyone is in debt with the elite flying off with bags of loot to their homesteads in latin america.
hence why sound money is good for the little guy. they always said that kings hate gold.
Mises.org - A deeper understanding of the austrian school of economics will help clarify my point. To long to make here
If you look at the last time we had a free banking period, pre 1913, despite the famous panics etc, you look at the dips and rises in the graphs, you'll see that they are NO Where NEAR as chaotic and insane as we've had since the Fed's been in action.
An environment where people can choose thier store of value out of choice garauntees resiliency. It imitates nature with a structured web of decentralized resources. No one thing can take out, unlike what we have now.
I would love to see the return of a basic bartering system where you don't HAVE to have money( mainly optional)but just something worth the trade. I people do it all the time. I'd love to see shops open up where we didn't have such an emphasis on money,but rather goods and services.
The problem with that is not everyone accepts what you have for trade. It's not completely negotiable. Money's purpose is as a store of value that's completely negotiable. That' it's key role. The problem is letting a central authority abuse and use it to enslave people. That's the situation we're in. Don't get me wrong, I like barter too, but not everyone's going to accept my goods for things that I want. At least we can freely barter currently. We need a monetary system that's decentralized, not based on debt, and actually based on a store or something of value, whether it's gold, silver, copper, platinum, wheat, corn, oil, or neodymium magnets.
I actually do agree that things would be a bit better if we did it like that. Thats why we need to end the fed!
OK sure. that's a step at least and better than nothing
Sound currency not fiat currency would take us a long way!
Oh man, I really wish that more libertarians were like you.
I just don't get it both the right and the left hate libertarians. What is it about libertarians that drives them both so crazy?
Reason at the expense of morality.
It seems to me that the libertarian point of view is always the most reasonable and moral way to go.
Someday you may understand my meaning. I don't have the energy to get into it right now. It's about the fuzzy area where the right thing is not always consistent with an elegant theoretical model, and where it's sometimes important to balance rational thought and emotional/intuitive senses. Anyway...
Well the right wing normally has their head up their asses and basically hate freedom but love money.(its their god) Leftists have a hard time trying to explain things like universal healthcare to libertarians because most libertarians just keep screaming socialist or communist in their face and the result is a huuuuuuuuuge fight between the both of them. To be quite honest, both libs and libertarians need to find the things that they agree on and just go from there.
That's exactly what I think all of us can agree on. This should be the message of the movement. Went to the Revolution march in DC, and the Rally for the Republic. Dr. Paul was the father of the tea party movement. Hopefully the OWS wont end up co-opted by private interests al well
MaN what a pitch lol. good job brother.
Thanks man, all these thing are unacceptable in a proclaimed free society.
http://youtu.be/Cy3jqDA3tiU
For Liberty.
2:36 - For Liberty!
http://youtu.be/cElCczGpETI
I registered republican for the first time ever just to vote in the primaries to put Paul on the ticket.
After that I'm going to my left leaning libertarian ways.
Spread the meesage otherwise, you have obama vs bush 2.0 as the choices!
I love Ron Paul...but our government is broken. A President is only as good as his ability to get along with Congress. What is Ron Paul's track record with getting along with the other 434 members of the House? Although since our Presidents have the ability to wage war, I assume President Paul would have the power to end wars and pull us out of 1000 bases worldwide. That would be a huge step towards improving our country...
http://www.JeffBlock2012.com (for a real revolution)
Go along to get along isn't the answer.
As president Dr. Paul will have the power and requirement to veto every unconstitutional bill that crosses his desk and we can trust him to do so. The say Ron paul is the one and the rest is "the gang of 534
I agree and think it would be a "vacation" to go 4 years without any new legislation!
OWS and the Revolution have a lot in common!
http://www.examiner.com/independent-in-manchester/occupy-wall-street-tea-party-protesthttp://www.examiner.com/independent-in-manchester/occupy-wall-street-tea-party-protest
Very much so! Let get a real leader elected for once. Someone who does what he say and says what he will do. Unwaivering consistency has my vote! You can count on Dr. Paul for that
Can someone suggest a better presidental candidate from the 8 main republicans. What happened to obama? End the War...no. Bailouts...still happening.....Ron Paul is our only viable choice people!
There is a reason they blackout paul in the media. The same as OWS, He is a serious threat to the status-quo!
Thats all well and good until you wake up to find out what your up against
You have a better suggestion for president, Obama again....
IMAGINE if people copy and pasted the same thread and posted it over and over.
Go for it! Imagine....
Being as I'm in this thread, no need.
No copy paste here. Check my C4l page, or simply google imagine a revolution. fourth link down will take you there. lol
I know why the couch is always wet, but I'm not tellin'.
If you weren't the one who made it wet, you don't want to know.
Hehe.
lol!
I'm telling you all right now, any effort to turn this movement into an anti-fed, small government thing will only cause a split in the main body of the movement. Election and lobbying reform is the best place to start, then we can all argue over the fed, monetary policy, tax policy and the role and function of government after we've cleaned it up and gotten to see what it looks like beneath the decades of rust, rot and mold that is corporate corruption.
That's and excellent analogy. But consider this: You can't get rid of mold without getting rid of the moisture that feeds it.
You may believe that, but others don't and you'll fracture this movement if you push such a specific message. I personally don't buy into this "end the Fed" message, but regardless of my belief, the true destructive quality in terms of its influence in our politics and government is the design of the banking system, its the for-sale nature of our elections, which are the mechanisms by which we install our governments. Until we fix THAT, there will be open or honest discussions on the role of the federal reserve, the banking system, war, environmental policy etc...
I don't doubt your sincerity. But there is a player in the game that can and does create unlimited amounts of money at zero cost. I wonder if that money could influence our politics .....
How many years has the "end the fed" message been raging? How many years has it failed to attract majority support?
This movement is bigger than your fixation on central banking. I may ever agree with you in fact, but that doesn't change the matter that the movement as a whole will not adopt this message. It is too diverse and ending the fed is too specific.
We must make of this movement what we can to achieve the most we can with the support structure we have. Ending corporate influence directly through election reform and lobbying reform is the first step.
If you ever want to see your message argued with power and righteous conviction anywhere but in the street and on the internet, we must take these steps carefully, one at a time. The first is to break the corporate banking and industrial establishments hold on our elections and our legislation. That means cleaning private money and the fundraising chase out of elections and establish transparency and regulation in regards to lobbying efforts.
Once this is done, points of order regarding the structure and mechanics of our state and other established institutions can begin again with more than simply a mishmash of "fringe" voices barking form the sidelines, while industrial trade groups and institutionalized political players set the tone for all of our law, regulation and government.
I understand the point. But the money issue trumps everything else. Leave it, and all the Pandora's box problems come right back.
I don't expect this issue to become one of 'the demands'. I'm trying to push the awareness factor past the 20% mark, after which it will take on a social power all its own.
I've known about this issue for 20 years, got stacks of economics books about it, and I never thought I'd see the day when this issue would get public attention, it was buried so deep. The internet has broken the matrix.
In the past, the mob would get angry and be stampeded by some charlatan, and always be conned into demanding a change that left them worse off, maybe dead. This time, maybe it will be different. The paper money printers have done a pretty good job of convincing everyone how badly we need them to print money and loan it to us at interest, while keeping their operations secret. When you look at it on the face of it, it's just plain absurd. Here we are in so much debt that we can never pay it, our younger generation's prospects for a prosperous future have been utterly destroyed by it, and we owe most of it to .... the PRINTER?
I'm just trying to point the way. The propaganda machines are in full production mode, trying to divert attention away from the cause, and the cure. The internet has blown away the restrictions on information, and hopefully we can come out of this with a chance at freedom and prosperity.
Each person I can get to watch Money As Debt for free on google, is a triumph. The word is spreading. Let's hope it's not too late. Peoples' lives are being destroyed by this, and it's appalling what a simple ruse it really is. It's so absurd most people don't believe it at first. You might as well be telling them Santa Claus doesn't exist!
You're still clinging to your personal central issue. If it was me, it would be the military industrial complex, which will exist regardless of whatever banking system is adopted unless the production and management of military technology is returned to the hands of the public, blah blah blah...clang clang clang.
As sound as your argument may be, it'll never be heard until the corporatocrisy is taken down. Their control of our elections, media and legislative process bars all socially radical or reformatory change from ever occurring at all, including your wish to debate the Fed. In order to get things done in a Democracy, first you need a democracy. Second, you need to have a sound argument and proper facts. Third you need a clean enough government to have the weight of your argument brought before the nation, heard and voted upon.
Beyond that, we both know this movement already contains an anti-fed segement. But its also bigger than that. From a pragmatic and systematic point of view, ending the fed as a central message will not carry far enough to become a central message because the greater issue still stands in the way of its public debate altogether.
Twenty years you say? Shouldn't it have caught on by now?
OK, chicken and egg problem.
It will solve itself.
When it collapses, people will beg for a solution to save them. One will be ready-made.
It takes two to screw us! Politicians to hold us down, so then the Corporations can do the screwing!!! Politicians need better rules to follow to prevent lobbying! We tax payers should also fund important elections, so the best person wins and not the one with the most money!!! The movement needs at least these 2 demands!!! Politicians need to be fair and keep it balanced for all and not start class warfare! They all need fired so we can start over but next time they work for everyone and not favor one group over another. Write it down and pass the word!!!
Lobbyist don't even bother visiting Dr. Paul because he stands for principles and cant be bought!
Again, FFS.
Imagine America where people can talk for hours with no substance...
LOL True as can be! People just dont think.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8448018326921957619&hl=en#
Good effort. I don't think we ever had it quite right (my family came here in 1634, and the amendments to the Constitution probably still needs a tweek or two Elections/campaigns etc.), so rather than Restore America Now, I would go for Enhance America Now.
You are right, Enhance America Now!
:-)
define "true weatlh" in your mind please?
Short answer: anything tangible derived from labor that satisfies individual happiness. Currently fiat currency fills this definition. In a historical perspective, every paper currency system has failed leaving hyperinflation and savings the were once considered wealth unable to even buy a loaf of bread.
Earliest societies used all sorts of thing as money. Tally sticks, shells, salt, etc.
True wealth is derived from liberty and the ability to choose. Currenty its illegal to use any competing currency in america against the dollar. Fractional reserve monetary systems never create wealth but only inflation and debt.
Can elaborate if you would like!
that 1st sentance is absolutely true! thank you for your answer. agree with you on the currency problems too.
Got an email we can stay in touch? pm me!
Spot on. Selling time, blood and soul for money is not freedom. But this is all the system allows for. Exchange soul for paper.
Peace IS PROSPERITY. And prosperity is what people want.. NOT paper accumulation.
Spot on yourself!
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies . . . If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] . . . will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered . . . The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."
The issuing power is enforced under threat of violence. They will not give that up. Not to say bringing attention to it isn't needed. Definitely. But that will only happen in an environment of Peace. So demanding Peace IS the way the new economy will come about. True free market. We need it to be safe for people doing the work.
AMEN!
sound good, I heard he never voted against the constitution
Never voted to raise taxes.
Never taken a congressional junket.
Doesnt take the Congress pension.
Never voted for an unbalanced budget.
The Solution can be found in a man of unwaivering consistency for over 30 years!
http://youtu.be/BeHHq8s6V7U
I think he needs a few amendments too. His son is just plain scary.
Sounds like we need more people like him, how come I never hear about him?
Entered politics in 1971 in response to the removal of the gold standard.
His cause in his words "My cause is one of liberty. I don't want to be president, I want to change the course of history"
Dr. Paul and his ideals of liberty are a threat the current system, so like the wall street movement, he is blacked out.
I’ve often joked that when Ron Paul gets to the White House, the media will declare the presidency irrelevant and focus on how Mitt Romney, Rick Perry and other establishment candidates represent the future of the Republican Party
Here's a link to check out what I'm claiming: http://www.ronpaul2012.com/2011/10/10/downplaying-ron-pauls-values-voters-victory/
BLACK THIS OUT!
Very well said.
Ron Paul says it was "totally unnecessary" to kill Osama bin Laden.
...
Not just unnecessary, he said it was "totally unnecessary" to kill bin Laden. He isn't running for school mascot, he's running for President. And he doesn't sound like someone ready for the responsibility.
proof please??
http://nation.foxnews.com/politics/2011/05/12/ron-paul-i-would-not-have-ordered-bin-laden-raid
It was widely cross reported and since it's Ron Paul, he hasn't backed away from it. Even Einstein would admit his own mistakes.
"It was absolutely not necessary," Paul said of the May 1 CIA-led Navy SEALs raid.
The Texas congressman questioned whether Obama could have gotten away with the operation if Usama bin Laden had been in a country other than Pakistan.
"What if he had been in a hotel in London?" Paul said on Newsradio 1040 WHO. "So would we have sent the ... helicopters into London because they were afraid the information would get out? No, you don't want to do that."
Paul said the United States should have gone after bin Laden the same way it went after Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, architect of the Sept. 11 attacks, by working with the Pakistan government.
"They arrested him, actually, and turned him over to us," Paul said, suggesting the same formula should have applied to bin Laden.
He argues for the arrest and trial which would respect of the rule of law.
I guess you supported the recent drone attacks as well?
Your argument does not recognize that Pakistan does not have law.
Of course I support the recent drone attacks. Why wouldn't I support the recent drone attacks?
The forth amendment for starters (no person shall be denied life, liberty, or property). Due process and the rule of law...
This guy was a citizen and never charged with any crime?
Do we simply dismis the constitution anytime it is "necessary" ; in that case we don't have law either or at least that always apply... http://youtu.be/yPr_iVWnIHc
http://ronpaulflix.com/2011/10/when-the-president-can-kill-whoever-he-wants/trackback/
http://ronpaulflix.com/2011/10/jake-tapper-vs-jay-carney-on-president-killing-u-s-citizens-oct-1-2011/
Please watch my I AM NOT MOVING! - #OCCUPY Wall Street Short Film http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCn0kBzZGg0
sounds great. now we need to stop flexing our pipe dream and get to the work which evolution itself requires.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/corporate-oligarchy/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/thetruth-socialismcapitalismcommunismmarxism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-versus-corporatism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/no-war/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/help-me-understand/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-a-love-story/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/sociology/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/energy-101-solution/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ethics/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/break-your-left-right-conditioning/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/nader-kucinich-and-paul/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/5-facts-you-should-know-about-the-wealthiest-one-p/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/i-am-homeless-joe-jp-morgan-chase-accidentally-for/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/can-we-end-the-fed/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-end-the-federal-reserve-and-what-do-you-replac/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/where-are-we-and-how-do-we-move-forward/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/things-wall-st-did-were-not-illegal/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/teaching-the-occupation/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-forum-needs-structure/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-not-your-personal-billboard-for-your-politi/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/systems-theory-primer/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/organize-inform-take-action-effect-change/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/better-website-needed/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-playing-the-devils-games/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/nonviolence-the-only-path/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-not-against-capitalism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-is-not-about-political-stripe-it-is-about-bas/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/national-initiative-for-democracy/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-third-political-party-the-movement-of-the-middle/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/300-fema-camps/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-a-false-flag-operation/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-this-will-not-work/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/paradigm-shift-now/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-proposal-for-focus/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-the-bullshit-posts-and-get-organized/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/suggested-goals/
That took a long time to review...... Good links though
thanks for looking. :)
eyes burn! lol
This is not about electing a candidate or even supporting a specific ideology.
Paul presents a platform and series of proposed solutions, which a certain portion of people or faction, if you will, support. However, there are also a great number of people who do no. They disagree with the specifics of Pauls views in a variety of ways as with any other politician.
But regardless of this, of Paul's proposals or those of any other political actor, body or organization, this movement is about the general frustration overall. That is why libertarians and Ron Paul supporters are encamped beside socialists, unionists and anarchists, all joined in the same movement, backing one another at all turns.
There are differences of policy and philosophy that need to be held. Different ideas and views which need to be heard and argued in the halls of power. And what the OWS movement occupiers of all stripes and ideologies know is that until this corrupt election game where candidates are forced to sell out to private special interests, rather than campaigning strictly on what they truly believe, that none of our beliefs or ideas will ever be brought to power.
The government will continue to serve only those forces and powers that can afford to buy their attention until we end the existence of the campaign money chase. One man, one vote, means nothing when the framework of voting itself is bought and sold by interests other than those of public good.
I would say that attempting to make this movement about Ron Paul specifically would be a mistake. Instead, something more broad and encompassing might make for a better flagship issue.
If you would be so kind. http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-central-message-we-need/
Very true. Lobbyists don't even bother visiting Dr. Paul.
Average campaign donation: $17.19
Supported by people not corporations
Even that should not be necessary. If you support Ron Paul, than vote for him, but this movement is about more than one politician, or one ideology. I myself don't particularly support his views on many subjects. Most actually. But I do support this movement, just as you do for the same reasons you do.
Because I'm frustrated with a broken system and I want the real arguments that need to be had argued in the halls of power. Until we clean up our elections and free our government from outside influence, none of that can happen. Let us make this movement about something more than our individual beliefs in the tenants of free markets, robust public services, etc...
Lets continue working together to clean our institutions up so we can fight it out down the road as we were meant to. Without having to mutually fight against a corporatist system of influence and corruption.
Surely! Amen and keep up the fight.
You as well. Do you then support making campaign finance the central issue to this populist movement?
I think until we can change the state of media coverage in America not much will change. But yes i do believe it should be a central issue. Currently I can only donate 2500. But a corporation can contribute unlimited amounts. Not very logical...
Then I ask that you post, repost, speak and advocate for the issue within the movement. Set aside your favorites in terms of politicians and even policy proposals and help push this issue into the narrative.
The sooner the movement adopts an issue, the sooner they'll be secure from external influences and co-option. There is strength here and people are beginning to see it.
Co-opted is the future of OWS unfortunately. The issue should be the cause of Liberty! Will do!
If we establish a core issue which will unite the existing factions, from libertarians straight through the socialists and maintain it till we win, than the OWS will simply become irrelevant and we can all begin actually arguing our differences out in government, rather than on the internet, whilst corporate spokespeople make a dog and pony show of legislating.
You got an email we could stay in touch by.
Richard
Spot on! Keep up the work! I'm running against my rep for congress this term. I think having average people in congress could speak volumes!
Hope this movement keeps gaining traction!
I hope you win!
I hope the message of liberty will win! It's not about me but the message!
People dont think!
http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=-8448018326921957619&hl=en&fs=true