Forum Post: 10 Goals for Occupy Wall Street
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 10, 2011, 7:01 p.m. EST by occupycommunity
(119)
from Rockville, MD
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
We are in the process of making petitions for each of the items in this list. We are also in the process of adding items as goals from suggestions made by community members. If you support any of the items on this list, please sign our petition for that particular item. If you don't support an item on this list, don't sign the petition for that particular item. In this way, we can build consensus on the goals we agree about.
Eliminate Corporate Personhood
Make Elections Transparent and Verifiable << please support this goal by signing our petition to the Obama administration : https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/make-elections-transparent-and-verifiable/3D9pD2Q1
Enact Term Limits for Congress
End the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan
Create Jobs Through Public Works
Pass Universal Health Care
Prosecute Leaders Who Violate Constitution
Defend Liberty, Repeal Unjust Laws, and Decriminalize Victimless Crimes
Protect the Environment
End Capital Punishment
They are explained in more detain at http://www.occupycommunity.org If you have any suggestions on how to improve this list, or would like to submit a new goal for consideration go to our website http://www.occupycommunity.org and click 'Propose Goal'
Tea Partier here and I support you on 6 of those. Let's compromise and become one unstoppable movement. I think we both have identified the fascism that has lead to a 99%
REACH OUT TO THE TEA PARTY!!!!!!!
Completely agree. If the OWS movement doesn't extend the olive branch to the Tea Party then this will just turn into the 49.5% vs. the other 49.5% while the 1% continues to rob us blind
For now we've decided to focus on the largely agreed upon goal of Making Elections Transparent and Verifiable, can you please help us and support this goal by signing our petition to the Obama administration : https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/make-elections-transparent-and-verifiable/3D9pD2Q1
end bush tax cuts , rebuild America bridges and roads , invest in middle class not banking class thats the occupy wall street message.
Those things need to be Items 3, 4, and 5 on our to-do list, but campaign finance reform and a reenactment of Glass-Steagall need to be Items 1 and 2, simply because those are going to be the easiest to build a broad-based consensus around and to a certain degree don't even have to be sold to most of this country.
I don't think you quite understand the OWS message. Thats the President Obama message. There are definitely distinctions between the two.
I like the President's message.
I don't like repelicans
Right on.
Btw - in the spirit of the conversation --
You know, I would say that what we ALL want is the ability to afford health care that is accessible for everyone.
The difference is only in how we collect the funding for it - through taxes or through individual contributions. And then it comes down to which is the most cost effective way to do this and yet still provide a service that delivers real health care.
You could add the ability to choose your health provider, but small communities will only be able to sustain one provider - If that's say a hospital.
I could be simplifying this too much, but been thinking about it a lot.
Peace.
Maybe a path towards a solution would be to look at other countries who have been doing this for half a century and learn from their successes and mistakes.
If you guys will just compromise on the universal health care thing, I'll gladly compromise on something that yall hold dear.
we don't even have to compromise right now. there are 6 things here that we agree on now
oh, ok cool then!
Moediggity, what if healthcare was affordable rather than free? Wouldn't that be fair? If we got rid of the fascist insurance company deals with the government, I'm confident that a capitalist businessman would offer quite an affordable rate to 1/6th of the country who are without. That's a lot of volume and profit potential is huge. But our government and these corporations don't allow anyone to compete for this business.
What do we need Health Ins. companies for? Extend Medicare to the entire population fini. The Health Ins. ( racket) business is just racking in billions playing Drs. and other med. suppliers off against the customers /patients. They supply no value and are completely unnecessary!
You are completely right. In order for us to make real changes we will have to work together to achieve the things we agree on. As I mentioned in another post, I'm try to figure out a way to make changes to this list a completely democratic process, but it's challenging since I haven't figured out a way to stop people from double voting on issues yet. I'll keep working on it, but please let me know what your suggestions are.
I hope our ultimate goal is to become the 100%.
I fully support temporary alliances of separate groups to achieve common goals. In this spirit exactly I created Super Union ( http://superunion.org ) to serve as communication and co-ordination platform for such alliances.
I don't think a union is possible since the Tea Party is not a real movement - just a fund raising, political hitman arm of the Republican Party and radical right. Don't be fooled! The Tea Party is a tool of the plutocrats - knowingly or unknowingly. You are well on your way to achieving your goals without them.
Agreed.
The list is evolving. Which 6 do you agree with? Do you think most Tea Partiers would agree with you? If you have alternative suggestions please post them here : http://occupycommunity.org/propose-a-goal/
I agree with 1-4,7,8.
I also agree with protecting the environment but it doesn't really fit here. You will lose people who don't care for bureacracies. Keep it about the economy and corruption in DC. IMO
I agree let's work together on the goals we agree on, I've posted a petition for the one about transparent, verifiable elections here : https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/make-elections-transparent-and-verifiable/3D9pD2Q1 lets get the support to make this happen.
I agree on 1-4, 7, 8. Maybe a little bit of 5.
6(universal healthcare) and 10(capital punishment) don't have a direct and immediate affect on turning our economy around right now.
9 is a good long term goal. I want clean air and water, and I want my grand kids to know what a tree is.
99% of the people don't agree with universal healthcare at this time. I would like to set all the non-violent drug law offenders free, today. But 99% of the people aren't with me on that. I support the death penalty for child abusers and people like Charles Manson, but 99% don't
end bush tax cuts , rebuild America bridges and roads , invest in middle class not banking class thats the occupy wall street message.
no way. The tea party is controlled by corporate interests. We "extend the olive branch" and we might as well give up and call it a day. The two movements couldn't be any more incompatible.
I empathize with how you feel, but the Tea Party is not a monolithic movement. We should work probably together on the issues we agree on.
I think there should be a list of "IMMEDIATE DEMANDS" vs. long-term goals. For example, reinstitute the Glass-Steagull act would be the demand of move your money day.
For environmental IMMEDIATE demands, I propose these:
What do you think?
I think your ideas are good, but first we need an attack on the heart of the system--the 'cult of the CEO' and the enshrinement of unsustainable greed--that is responsible for most of these problems. I suggested we demand a high annual tax on the loot of anybody who's managed to legally embezzle more than 10 million. If you could cut this group down to size your demands would become achievable.
Most voted demands ( by 10/16/2011):
Money out of Politics. 44 votes
-Eliminate / Remove / Ban campaign contribution;
-Public funds all campaigns;
-Mandate Public fund for all political campaign / election nation wide;
-28th Amendment to the Constitution that establishes permanent public financing of all elections in this country.
Tax fairness. 26 votes
-Tax rates from the Clinton administration;
-Eliminate all tax loopholes;
-Get rid of tax breaks for the rich;
-Tax cut for middle class;
Reinstate Glass-Steagall Act. 19 votes
Abolish the Federal Reserve Board. 18 votes
-Abolish / Eliminate / End Federal Reserve Board;
-Audit Federal Reserve Board;
-Put the power to print money back to congress;
Affordable health care. 16 votes
-singer payer health care;
-public option;
Ban Lobbyist. 15 votes
End corporate personhood. 14 votes
Financial Reform. 13 votes
-Financial Reform;
-Financial Transaction Fee / tax;
Term limit. 12 votes -Have A Term Limit to Congress/Senate/Supreme Court;
-8 years maximum for any and all nationally elected servants;
-One 6 year term only for all representatives, senators and president;
End wars. 5 votes
Fully investigate & Prosecute the Wall Street criminal. 5 votes
Restore democracy. 5 votes
Regulation on College loan. 4 votes
Energy reform. 3 votes
This is a terrific start, but I'm not sure if we have enough votes for a representative sample. We (occupycommunity.org -- not affiliated with occupywallst.org) are in the process of hiring a few temporary workers to help us conduct a more comprehensive survey. Where did you get these results?
Some people are advocating combining with the Tea Party. The problem with that as I see it is that Occupy has some overlap with the Tea Party, but the Tea Party is inherently Libertarian and I don't that this aspect of the Tea Party is consistent with the what Occupy should stand for.
You make a good point, but I think we can work together on the issues we agree about without sacrificing our principals on the issues we don't.
I don't think that that would be possible because the implementation of some of the overlapping interests would require solutions which would be incongruent with libertarianism.
Ya know...there's no way the Koch Bros. would allow this. But individual Tea Party-leaning members...maybe?
How about: make products subject of US labor laws and not factories. Every product sold in the US must be manufactured by US labor standards minimum! tThis would end sweat shops in third world countries and stop job loss to foreign countries which undercut US Standards and make them therefor obsolete in the US itself!
On your goals:
These goals are good. Here are my comments:
1.. Eliminate Corporate Personhood - Be specific. Corporations were invented to transfer liability away from business owners. The concept of personhood allows corporations to be charged with fraud for example. Without personhood, how will they be held responsible for their actions?
If the Tea Party seemed willing to work with Occupy in good faith, and Occupy returned that sentiment... I think the resulting union would be quite unstoppable. And it would serve to de-escalate the level of extremist rhetoric on both sides. Has Occupy made any formal overtures to the Tea Parties of various cities?
+1 these.
Thank you for your encouragement, if you haven't already, please vote for our petition to make elections transparent and verifiable : https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/make-elections-transparent-and-verifiable/3D9pD2Q1
Also, the site forums should be fully functional in a few days ;)
looking good. i like "goals" a lot better than "demands."
thanks!
http://occupywallst.org/forum/thetruth-socialismcapitalismcommunismmarxism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-versus-corporatism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/no-war/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/help-me-understand/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-a-love-story/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/sociology/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/energy-101-solution/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ethics/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/break-your-left-right-conditioning/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/nader-kucinich-and-paul/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/5-facts-you-should-know-about-the-wealthiest-one-p/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/i-am-homeless-joe-jp-morgan-chase-accidentally-for/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/can-we-end-the-fed/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-end-the-federal-reserve-and-what-do-you-replac/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/teaching-the-occupation/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-forum-needs-structure/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-not-your-personal-billboard-for-your-politi/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/systems-theory-primer/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/organize-inform-take-action-effect-change/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/better-website-needed/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-playing-the-devils-games/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/nonviolence-the-only-path/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-not-against-capitalism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-is-not-about-political-stripe-it-is-about-bas/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/national-initiative-for-democracy/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-third-political-party-the-movement-of-the-middle/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/300-fema-camps/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-a-false-flag-operation/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-this-will-not-work/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/paradigm-shift-now/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-proposal-for-focus/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-the-bullshit-posts-and-get-organized/
[Removed]
These are 10 items I can certainly endorse. Glad to see something that looks like a solid agenda for reforming the existing govt. My only complaint is that a few of these look kinda vague, but it's pretty good start. I'll look over the links you provided, it's a New Year, and the perfect time for a fresh start.
11....Get a job...take a bath
And finally, to accomplish all of the above: GENERAL STRIKE.
List could be worked on.
All elected offices should have term limits, and be 40 hour a week jobs, minimum. Lobbyists also need to go. Maybe if they didn't see elected life as a gravy train we would get people really interested in doing a good job and making things work better.
Boycott Imported Goods Buy Made in the USA!!!!!
Paul from Holland
Many of these are too vague or general and I think for the time being we should mainly stick to economic and corruption of the political system. Reinsitute the Glass-Steagull ACt should definitely be on the list. Although I am opposed to capital punishment (see Forgotten Victims on youtube) I don't think it's an urgent demand right now for the movement. As for Protect the Environment, perhaps: 1) a tax on industry for carbon emissions 2) stop the tar sands pipe line 3) ban deep water drilling and fracking 4) no new nuclear power plants and stronger oversight of current plants (ideally shutting them down, but we can't ask for everything at once)
I would like to add something completely uncontroversial, yet, in my opinion powerful.
Over the last decade trillions have been lost due to improper accounting methods.
Examples:
Enron (goes without saying)
Pentagon ($2.3 trillion could not be accounted for according to Rumsfelt on 9-10-2001)
Foreclosure crisis (ownership of real estate cannot be established)
Without proper accounting there cannot be a proper investment climate, without which there cannot be job growth.
The accounting idea is terrific and it should be applied to the government too (as well as corporations). Cash accounting is fine for a person selling hot dogs on the side of the street, but completely unacceptable for the government. I think we may make this our next petition. In the mean time, can you help us reach 150 supporters in our petition to make elections transparent and verifiable : https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/%21/petition/make-elections-transparent-and-verifiable/3D9pD2Q1
This is a little simplistic. There are a variety of accounting methods (governmental accounting is a whole different kettle of fish!) and there are many complex transactions that would be difficult to break down. How do you see this happening?
One Question..... Obama has had CONTROL for 2.5 years of both houses..... THEY ARE THE LAW MAKERS....
WHY ARE YOU NOT at the WHITE HOUSE....
And WHY are you NOT holding OBama Accountable ???
One Question..... Obama has had CONTROL for 2.5 years of both houses..... THEY ARE THE LAW MAKERS....
WHY ARE YOU NOT at the WHITE HOUSE....
And WHY are you NOT holding OBama Accountable ???
I agree, I Think Washington DC is the place to go with this.
Got my approval.
Thank you for your support, in the mean time (if you haven't already), can you help us reach 150 supporters in our petition to make elections transparent and verifiable : https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/%21/petition/make-elections-transparent-and-verifiable/3D9pD2Q1
Repeal Gramm-Leach-Bliley!
it be easier to repeal the laws of gravity than get anywhere with most of these dreamy goals. this is all over the map; no focus. congress et al can't get done what they WANT to get done and like it or not that's where our sights need to be set. a shotgun approach won't do anything. right now the biggest issue in the country is jobs (the economy). the perpetrators are the FED and Wall Street - period. if you don't methodically go after that machine gun nest first and achieve that goal, we're just pissing up a rope
What specifically are you suggesting?
primarily a focus on an initiative to reform, break up, change the structure of the Wall Street/Alliance that has dominated the American economy since the early 1900s. my understanding of why the current movement is called occupy WALL STREET is first and foremost, about the economic in which we find our selves, not capital punishment, corporate personhood, healthcare etc. the failure to make headway on the latter is purely due to an opposition Republican party whose only goal is to topple the current administration; this can be dealt with to an extent by a backlash vote for the current administration even though we may have issues with the President. short-term we need to establish a a group (not huge) tasked with drafting the framework for a "platform" if you will, setting forth a coherent plan with with milestones for taking on and changing the laws that enable Wall Street to legally screw us. Civil Rights protestors had a single goal and they got laws changed; Viet Nam protesters ended the war. look at our current proposed goals; we sound like dreamy campfire girls not a strong, powerful organization with a clearly thought out mission. ....just sayin'
In my opinion.the movement will fail unless demands get more focussed--call it narrower-- and specific. One of our major problems is the 'cult of the CEO' and the resultant runaway infection of greed in all of our institutions. For starters, there needs to be a high annual tax (akin to the property tax that most of us pay, but larger) on the accumulated assets of anybody who has hijacked more than, say, 10 million. These are the people who've ambushed the system to their own advantage, brought it to its knees and they are the ones who should be paying for it. Communism failed 20 years ago, capitalism a couple of decades later. We presently have legalized embezzlement.
I appreciate your concerns. I can't speak for anyone else, but here is my interpretation : from talking to the participants, it seems more that this is not about demands, but rather it is about being heard. The goal of this movement is not pass new laws, or to amend the constitution. Instead the goal is to lead our society through a radical paradigm shift. The first step in dealing with a problem is realizing that it’s there. All around us we see victims of an economics system with its values in all the wrong places, and we want to make a statement against that system. We want to start a dialogue about new ways to deal with our problems. Many in the media have mocked us for not having a coherent list of demands, but they miss the point. We don’t have any demands, only goals. We recognize that we live in a democratic society and that not all of our goals will be achieved at one time, but we’re sick and tired of sitting on the sidelines hoping for politicians to come up with solutions. It is time to voice our priorities.
I understand, but from where I sit the protest looks too disparate--almost a mess. Ideas coming in are all over the map, many even counter-productive. There has to be (at minimum) some fundamental criticism and some specific demand that would rally, trigger a reaction and keep people focussed. I suggested an attack on 'the cult of the CEO' and the enshrinement of unsustainable greed which is at th heart of most of the trouble, as a starting point. Demanding those individuals who've hijacked the system and brought it to its knees pay an anual tax on accumulated loot is a clear, defensible demand that should provoke a reaction. Without a focus, the movement will peter out.
It is likely that consensus will emerge given time.
100%
And well within my own vision (see http://superunion.org)
Thank you for your encouragement, if you haven't already, please vote for our petition to make elections transparent and verifiable : https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/make-elections-transparent-and-verifiable/3D9pD2Q1
Signed.
checked out your link. Good content, did you do it all yourself?
Yep. Trying to make a self-sustaining organization independent of business and government, with very long-term goals. If you see some potential in co-operation I'm happy to entertain any suggestions. admin@superunion.org
Thank you. We'll be in touch
Term limits is an insult to the voter who already has the ability to limit the term every time they go to the polls. Treat the illness, not the symptom. Get money out of the election cycle. Amend the Constitution to Federally fund all House, Senate and Presidential elections. Make access to matching election funds through a petition process. No personal fortunes allowed.Shorten the election cycle to six months.
New Goal for the 99%: Pull ALL of your money out of each and every bank that got bailed out or you feel is ripping you off with monthly fees and hardly no interest rate. MOVE your MONEY to someplace safer and where it's respected! Otherwise big corporations and banks will just keep sucking us dry.
Funny that you mention that. My wife and I just closed our Bank of America account last weekend.
Good for you! Monday, I'm closing my checking account at Wells Fargo (formally Wachovia) for only a $2.00 check image fee that I can probably opt out of. Even if I can opt out, I'm taking my cash anyway.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/steps-to-success/#comment-110061
To make the most effective change against Wall St, please advertize citizens to withdraw their "investments" and put it in cash. Wall St is a pack of wolves and this denies them their source of parasitic income. This would radically stop the countries economic system.
What happened to the list of demands? How did you dumb this down? This is the real deal:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/
Those demands are very good, but they have been edited a lot from when they were first posted. Remember that this post was originally created almost a week ago. Now the post is being used for people who want to support individual items within the list.
Its about time our citizens realize that we run the government, they dont run us. Im sick of our leaders saying this is a democracy when they continuously abuse our loop holes in our constitution. They need to know we are aware of the abuse and they need to fix it! They should be afraid of us, and if they're not yet....they certainly will be! Lets give them a reason to be!
Its about time our citizens realize that we run the government, they dont run us. Im sick of our leaders saying this is a democracy when they continuously abuse our loop holes in our constitution. They need to know we are aware of the abuse and they need to fix it! They should be afraid of us, and if they're not yet....they certainly will be! Lets give them a reason to be!
Thank you for your support, If you haven't already, can you please help us build support for our goal of election reforms by signing our petition : https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/make-elections-transparent-and-verifiable/3D9pD2Q1
Thank you again for your support and kind words.
Plus:
Here's how we can easily Reform Wall Street: Take away their powers "once again." And a Million People March on The Hill will help a lot!
For example, "We are here Congress because we want to bring REINSTATE the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933 http://www.investopedia.com/articles/03/071603.asp#axzz1aPEc3wX which help saved our country from the Great Depression by preventing investment companies, banks, and insurance companies from merging and becoming large brokerage firms; instead of just being Banks and Insurance companies--why can't we learn a history lesson here Congress? Btw, why did most of you vote for its final repeal in 1999? http://www.counterpunch.org/2008/09/19/shattering-the-glass-steagall-act
Think about where we are now, it all started in 1999 with the subprime loans Senator Phil Gramm was peaching on Senate floor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKQOxr2wBZQ&feature=related
Furthermore, we also want you to CHANGE the Commodities Future Modernization Act of 2000 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_Futures_Modernization_Act_of_2000 BACK to where it was before 2000, which since has deregulated energy markets and consequently allowed for such scams as The Enron Loophole; whereas in the early 2000's Enron Corp. was charging 400 bucks plus for a kilowatt hour...They all when to jail for this. But, the Enron loophole is still not closed, for example, allowing speculators to resell barrels of oil over and over again before it reaches the gas station owner. It's basically, legal gambling at our expense. What were those lawmakers thinking then? What are you thinking now? Either do the right think, or you're part of the 1%."
Why are oil prices high? The Enron Loophole
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbdtTGYQBMU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNp0y0SjOkY&feature=related
Rolling Stones Reporter: Truth about Goldman Sachs--how they have cornered the markets--basically, The Enron Loophole and the Repeal of Glass-Steagall Act in 1999. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waL5UxScgUw
Let's get focused and bring back Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, they got it right 1933, we don't need to REINVENT the wheel because bringing this Act back will create an even playing field once again....and let's finally Close the Enron Loophole, which allowed Enron to charge what they wanted for energy; they went to jail for this; but no one closed the loophole, why? Re-election Monies from the banks and oil companies! The writing is on the wall.
Occupy Demands and Proposed Legislation
Checks and Balances for Tax Dollar Expenditure
Only non profit companies 501 c3’s shall do business with organizations that operate using tax revenue.
This includes but is not limited to; the military complex, the education system, the health care system and any other public works organization.
That means that tax payers are only paying for the cost of items and the labor associated with creating them.
When for profit companies begin to extract revenue from this tax payer funded source only corruption and degradation of the system occurs.
Awesome idea to create petitions. Why not create them for the other goals? What a perfect way to gauge support for individual objectives given this crews "motley" nature.
Thank you for your support and positive feedback. Your opinion is important to us. We are in the process of making other petitions, but have limited staff to write them and most of our team is out protesting today. In the mean time, if you agree with it, can you help us on the largely agreed upon goal of making elections transparent and verifiable (we think we can use this issue to pick up momentum). If you haven't already, can you please help us and support this goal by signing our petition to the Obama administration : https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/make-elections-transparent-and-verifiable/3D9pD2Q1
Thank you again for your support and kind words.
I am so glad someone is asking this! Protest without meaningful solution will assure failure. But I believe the magic 10 points being made are naive; Wall Street and its stanglehold on America is the issue, and I think we should do three things: 1) Treat the stock market as the gambling machine that it is. The disguise of "investment" must be removed. 2) Limit stock trading to individuals only, and limit this to a percentage of one's total wealth (to avoid groups investing through one individual). 3) Stock trades would be handled by a government entity (ala State lotteries). Goldman Sachs, eTrade,and the others like them would no longer be able to provide their services.
My two cents.
What does the movement consider a victimless crime? Why end capital punishment?
A victimless crime is a crime which has no victim. I'll use a theoretical example since it is easier to understand : practicing a religion not approved by the state. As for why we think capital punishment should be ended, it comes from the philosophy that no individual or sovereign body, should have the right to kill another human being except in the case of imminent threat to innocent life. We believe that the death penalty is unjust in principal, biased in its prosecution, and unconstitutional by its nature since it is cruel and unusual punishment both to the person being executed and to the family. Furthermore, there are countless cases where individuals executed by the state have been exonerated posthumously.
I understand what you believe would be good demands. However, why not start with something everyone, the 99%, can agree on. End corporate contributions in campaigns, and restrict lobbyists access to congress. That way you sever the chords that bind Wall Street and Capitol Hill.
I agree with you in spirit, but unfortunately, as long as corporations have status as legal persons, they are protected under the first amendment.
They were ruled in favor of being able to show commercials prior to elections, and that was only by a slim margin of 5-4 against the campaign reform act. I don't know if they would do the same for campaign contributions.
I agree that many of these ideas are compatible with the tea party. Why not appoint ambassadors to the tea party and try to reach out to them at their meetings.
could give that info on this poll i'm taking https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?hl=en_US&formkey=dFlNNHJTRlZwMWs5ZjlhTWN0NlZReHc6MQ#gid=0 so far not many want to actually take the poll. rather let the media set the narrative for them.
These are perfect.
Thank you so much for your support. Can you help us pick up momentum by supporting our petition to make elections transparent and verifiable : https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/make-elections-transparent-and-verifiable/3D9pD2Q1
Done.
Thank you for your support, we really appreciate it. If you have any comments or suggestions please feel free to submit them at www.occupycommunity.org
Plus, we need to demand Congress to reinstate the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, which was the solution that ended the wide-spread corruption on Wall Street during the Great Depression by preventing banks and insurance companies from being one, which I feel is the root issue of how we got here. Please read this:
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/03/071603.asp#axzz1aPEc3wXj http://www.counterpunch.org/2008/09/19/shattering-the-glass-steagall-act/
On #9, People Power through Energy Democracy is just getting started in the US (we're behind the rest of the world of course, but we can catch up fast):
http://slvrenewablecommunities.blogspot.com/2011/08/clean-energy-hold-up.html
Why are the Wall Street Protesters upset? They are:
Upset that 20% of the country's wealth has been destroyed and not a single person has been convicted, much less indicted.
Upset that Wall Street has iron control over the country’s economic policies and that both parties are wholly owned subsidiaries.
Upset that 24 million people cannot find a full time job, that 50 million cannot afford to see a doctor when they are sick, that 47 million need the government’s help to feed themselves. They are upset that 15 million families owe more on their home than it is worth. (Alan Grayson, Former Member of Congress.)
Translate these into goals.
good points, I think this captures what many people are feeling. Thank you for your contribution. Please let us know if you have any specific suggestions. Otherwise, we will continue working to improve our goals list.
The specific goals are:
Review all commission data from wall street from 2000 to 2008. All commissions paid on subprime, CDO, CDS, MBS transactions RECAPTURED OR CLAWED BACK.
Eliminate the ability of Wall Street Firms who got a bailout to lobby regulators, Congress or the White House.
Nationwide healthcare, highway and bridge rebuilding program. Small business program taken out of SBA, create expanded direct small business financing program. Generate 5 million jobs.
All subprime loans canceled.
Food stamp program dramatically expanded.
I think you might know a little bit more about the first point than I do. As for the last one, I whole heartedly agree. In the meantime, would you be willing to support our petition to help us ensure that elections are made transparent and verifiable : https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/make-elections-transparent-and-verifiable/3D9pD2Q1
Wow I have agreed with so much of what I have seen and heard until now. I agree with 3.3 of these 10 points. Unfortunately, I believe now that the most likely thing to come out of OWS will be about 20 different little political parties that will all sort of just putter out. #1 is crazy #2 is already true #3 I agree with #4 I agree with #5 ummm...maybe, only if they are temporary #6 I agree with. #7 is crazy #8 the first two sub-points are already true and your just saying because they sound good while the third sub-point I agree strongly with #9 is always true everyone wants to do that be more specific to be meaningful #10 wholeheartedly disagree and you have just eliminated any hope of having any Republicans switch sides and join this movement by saying that. Personally, I was really hoping for something more middle-of-the-road, with some actual political potential, to come out of this.
I'm sorry to hear that you disagree with what you have read. First remember that these are goals not demands, and the list is ever evolving. Eliminating corporate personhood would be difficult and might even require a constitutional amendment, but, in my sample, it was the most popularly supported goal. As for your claim that elections are already transparent and verifiable, I assure you that they are neither. Do you remember that Al Franken won his senate campaign after initially being behind in the first count? I agree that elections are probably 99% accurate, but when the margins of victory are so narrow, every vote counts. It would be very easy to eliminate human error from the process using the the proposed plan in goal number two. As for your assertion that upholding the constitution is crazy, remember that the constitution is the foundation of all the laws in this country and, without enforcement, laws are meaningless. If we don't stick up for the constitution, we have no country. I agree with you that number nine is vague, but again, the people I was working with on this list were trying to build consensus, and there were a lot of very vague demands we had to compile. As for the tenth goal, I think the fact that Troy Davis' execution had so recently occurred had some impact on why that demand was so popular. One of the good points of the list is that you can support individual items that you agree with while ignoring the ones you don't. We are working to add petitions to each item, but we have limited staff / resources. Also any suggestions you have will be appreciated.
Thanks for responding. I am a little shaky on the reasons for eliminating corporate personhood. Perhaps this is meant to make executives more responsible? FYI- executives already are sued regularly and typically buy insurance for that, so I don't think that would work. It would really just make average people who own stock through retirement plans, etc, liable for the actions of the companies they own. In regards to prosecuting the politicians who violate the Constitution, these are our elected leaders. They already typically get forced to resign or impeached for much more minor things, so I think that just investigating them is all that is necessary, not locking them up, etc (prosecuting them seems a bit much). I have a lot of suggestions, but they are kind of spread out across my responses to various posts. If I organized all of my suggestions in one place it would be a book. Again, thanks for the rational response.
The reason we want to eliminate corporate personhood, is that it qualifies business entities to the constitution guarantee of freedom of speech. As long as corporations have legal status as persons, no laws can be made to trim their political activities and lobbying since these are protected under the first amendment. You are right that it is a long shot though since there aren't many politicians who would risk supporting this issue for fear of losing campaign contributions. I will respond to your other points as I have time.
I would suggest that you can modify the rules that govern what corporations can do to limit their ability to influence politics without eliminating the liability protections for investors that come from corporate personhood. In other words, not eliminate corporate personhood, but instead establish anti-interference laws regarding corporations and politics, kind of like the separation of Church and State, establish a separation of Corporation and State.
Maybe a limited profit range and a certain mandatory percentage put back into the business for any type of organization that deals with consumers (such as banks, insurance companies)..more regulation. Some sort of regulation or accountability for jobs that are sent out of our country, and much larger advantages to companies that do not outsource jobs. Elizabeth Warren is brilliant she discusses a lot of the issues, and provides solutions for the 99%.
I have an idea that has not been mentioned, and is very relevant to the economic crisis we are experiencing. A lot of the current crisis started with the banks and the subprime mortgages, the real estate market etc... Both parties are guilty at not addressing this issue which is having a tremendous impact in the economy by 1. homeowners were investing in their homes, and were use to values increasing 2. the fact that the real estate market is tanking and there is a surplus on homes is bringing down the value and a glut of housing 3. this is leading to less jobs in the construction, building sector etc...4. many homes are underwater. I can go on with this list, must one thing I think would be a very strong goal, would be to demand some sort of change in the process and fixing the housing market that stimulates the economy, jobs, housing. Initially Obama created HAMP which has been an absolute disaster, since the banks did not have to comply to modify home loans, but maybe now one of the occupy wall street goals can be to make the banks can be obligated to change the terms of home loans and take some responsibility for the mess they got us into.
why don't you make petitions for some of your other goals instead of just the '2. Make Elections Transparent and Verifiable goal'.
If you agree with some of these goals, but not others, just support the ones you agree with. I am in the process of creating petitions at whitehouse.gov for some these goals as well as others proposed by users at occupycommunity. Here is a link for making elections verifiable, the most popularly supported goal : https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/make-elections-transparent-and-verifiable/3D9pD2Q1
how about we start first with eliminating the fascist healthcare system so that healthcare is not free but affordable, first. Then we can see where to go to from there?
stop bombing Libya
The country needs an "Apollo Mission" type focus on rebuilding. America needs to set goals like becoming:
1 in education
1 in innovation
1 in manufacturing
1 in infrastructure
1 in providing healthcare to all citizens from birth to grave
1 in alternative energies research & production
All of these can be accomplished within 10 years, IF we have the courage and fortitude to see it through.
I would like to add 11. Disallow any commodities based speculative trading including food and fuels. 12. Investigate and punish those responsible for the Banking collapse and Housing market disaster. 13. Reduce financial barriers to encourage third party candidates and third parties. 14. Audit the Fed and the Federal Gold Depository.
I made a comment to the banking collapse and have some specific goals that could be implemented towards holding the banks responsible. (atr)
Thank you. Can you please post those suggestions here : http://occupycommunity.org/propose-a-goal/ so that we can vote on them?
These are fine goals, and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management Group of Business & Government to achieve these goals, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategic Legal Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures
Join
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
if you want to support a Presidential Candidate at AmericansElect.org in support of the above bank-focused platform.
This list seems a good start although point 2 and 10 are still very general. Is a little vague. Also, what about reinstituting the Glass-Steagull Act and having a limit on corporate ownership of land?
Terrific suggestion. Can you submit a suggestion for voting at http://occupycommunity.org/propose-a-goal/
I am amased at how Occupy works. Would like to have your input on the movement to understaqnd it better. It’s only couple of minutes to answer 10 questions. I only collect 100 answers and happy to send results if you are interested. Please, take some time for it: Thank you! http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/Q3NF7QB http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/Q3NF7QB
end bush tax cuts , rebuild America bridges and roads , invest in middle class not banking class thats the occupy wall street message.
Again, I believe it's crucial to stay with the brilliant marketing logic of the OWS originators. Keep It Simple: We demand peaceful assembly in public space to protest the growing wealth gap.
This covers everyone, even bankers. Scores of banking analysts and associates, and corporate law associates, are losing their jobs as the 1% gets greedier.
Give it time. Keep the umbrella and message open for all. The 99% needs the 99%.
Stay clear of politics and isms. The Right will demonize and the Left will try to piggyback with a thousand agendas.
Occupiers, may the Force be with you.
Where is abolish the Federal reserve?
The Tea party is aligned with the Republican party, when one looks to the stories of the disenfranchised 99% people, the solutions to help them are not supported by the republicans, single payer healthcare, even the extenion of unemployment benefits was strongly opposed by the republicans, its doubtful that the occupywallst org and the tea party could meld...
The Tea party is aligned with the Republican party, when one looks to the stories of the disenfranchised 99% people, the solutions to help them are not supported by the republicans, single payer healthcare, even the extenion of unemployment benefits was strongly opposed by the republicans, its doubtful that the occupywallst org and the tea party could meld...
We certainly can't agree about everything or even most things for that matter, but there are probably some areas where we can work together to achieve a common goal.
All these goals are immediately achievable, but they all begin and end with the power of banking, so although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management Group of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategic Legal Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures
Join
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
if you want to support a Presidential Candidate Committee at AmericansElect.org in support of the above bank-focused platform.
I'd say if I get to keep my toaster, TV, and steel belted radials I'll be happy.
end bush tax cuts , rebuild America bridges and roads , invest in middle class not banking class thats the occupy wall street message.
end bush tax cuts , rebuild America bridges and roads , invest in middle class not banking class thats the occupy wall street message.
end bush tax cuts , rebuild America bridges and roads , invest in middle class not banking class thats the occupy wall street message.
end bush tax cuts , rebuild America bridges and roads , invest in middle class not banking class thats the occupy wall street message.
What? I didn't quite catch that.
read post on tumblr @ hot beans and bacon. addresses goal one completely. too funny.
Wall Street laughs at us behind their protective walls as does the President and Congress. Kindred spirits UNITE! We need to expand to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. and take our message to President Obama! Congress also needs to hear us. They both have the power to change things. Things that they created
I can't speak for anyone else, but, personally, I think that taking this to Washington is a good idea. Especially as the weather gets colder.
Right on, the most exposure and reaction. The President needs to be accountable for the conditions.
Thank you all for your replies. This list is was compiled from a non-scientific survey of protest participants, and is a work in progress. Our goals should be decided democratically, so if you have a goal to propose, please visit : http://occupycommunity.org/propose-a-goal/ . Later we'll vote at http://occupycommunity.org/vote/ to decide which issues are the most important.
Where does this occupycommunity.org site spring from? I'm curious if the source of the proposed goals emerged from a democratic process. I agree with all of the goals, but I think the power in this movement is focusing on one single source of problems, which is Wall St. I think our demands should center around finance/Wall St./the economy and the rest comes from there. Personally, 1. Eliminate Corporate Personhood is the goal I'm most excited to stand behind.
Thank you for asking. This is something that needs to go up on the site. The goals were made from talking to participants about what they wanted and compiling the list in the most coherent way that we could. The demands on the list were largely agreed on by most of the participants we talked to, but not everyone. It is not scientific, and, although we tried to make it representative, I'm sure that the list will evolve once we get more proposals for goals and start allowing users to vote on the goals they most support.
You can propose your own goals here : http://occupycommunity.org/propose-a-goal/
Later on, we'll have votes on which goals we want to prioritize, but, for now, this list is really more of a jumping off point.
http://picchore.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/tsa.jpg
Oh, say! can you see by the dawn's early light where nomads of greed , roam freely oblivious to our cries We are slaves of moment , the herds of wasteland No sheep dog is going to eye us down to submission, because we care We will not leave behind the baron lands for the children of future
Oh, say! can you see by the dawn's early light where nomads of greed , roam freely oblivious to our cries We are slaves of moment , the herds of wasteland No sheep dog is going to eye us down to submission, because we care We will not leave behind the baron lands for the children of future
Stiglitz and Krugman know the way
If I could type, I would have typed constitutional convention, not constitutional convection, but I like either.
Too many demands and too ideologically specific.
Try this instead. http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-central-message-we-need/#comment-54685
You might be right, I want this to be a democratic process, so please make proposals here : http://occupycommunity.org/propose-a-goal/
Is anybody thinking about envoking a constitutional convection yet?
http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-are-vox-populi/
Our government does not have the constitutional authority to hire a private bank to manipulate global currencies.
We will not fix any of our economic problems as long as the Federal Reserve is employed by the US government.
We the People wage war against the multinational corporate lobbyists who have assumed control of our government.
We the People will not give up until our goals are achieved.
We the People will continue to educate our fellow countrymen on these issues.
We must take the state of the economy into consideration when choosing our battles.
Our economy is unstable, and unsustainable.
Our economy will become infinitely more unstable if we take money out of politics without firing the Federal Reserve. This is not a "your opinion" "my opinion" type of thing...this is the current economic paradigm.
We are a movement against the current socio-political paradigm.
We are a movement for, of, and by the American populous and constitution.
We do not align ourselves with any politician.
We are the politicians.
We understand the issues at hand.
We cannot provide all of the solutions. Solutions lie within a new body of legislators, free from greed and corruption.
We are Vox Populi.
We do not forgive. We do not forget.
Good start! Without common agreed goals there will be no progress. As a remark on 2: "Make Elections Transparent and Verifiable". What if we change that to "One man, one vote". Get rid of the 'winner takes all' principle that always results in two big political parties rather than a wider palette to choose from?
I completely agree with you in spirit, but it might require a constitutional amendment and I'm not exactly sure about how to go about making such a big change. I'm working on a way to make the ability to propose and vote on issues democratic at www.occupycommunity.org
I am not sure but is there something like a binding referendum in the US?
I think that most of the people on all sides can agree with 1, 2, 3, 7, and 8.
4 may be difficult more for the fact that it isn't easy to "end" a war these days. I think the best thing to do is demand that the government set absolutely clear objectives and end the war when those objectives are met.
5 will irritate the budgetary conservatives, though it might win over westerners and some southerners if one of the projects includes water pipelines (for areas in drought from those with more than enough rain), and better infrastructure.
6 will definitely get grit in many teeth just because the recent health care bill is not the least bit popular. Affordable health care is popular in theory, but the way that the government has gone about it has made the words "universal health care" ring bitterly in many ears.
8 still has the problem of making the moralists scream against drugs and prostitution (what "victimless crime" usually conjures in most minds).
9 sounds good, but there is still the problem of "how much" to protect the environment and at whose expense that will turn some people off.
10 is just a plain old controversy that can be decided later. First things first, we need to fix the system for deciding.
Let's start with an issue where there is broad agreement. I have created a petition with whitehouse.gov to make elections transparent and verifiable : https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/make-elections-transparent-and-verifiable/3D9pD2Q1 Please help me support this petition.
Those are really terrific points. The goal was to make a list that broadly represented the views of protest participants, but the more ambitious the goals, the more difficult they become to attain. For now, the list posted is just a starting point. You can propose your own goals at the occupy community website. Once enough proposals are created, we will vote on them.
5 who will you pay for this?
6 how about putting taxes on or stricter codes on unhealthy food first?
How about instead of attacking people that eat shitty food, we repeal all the unneeded rules and regulations that makes healthy food expensive? If fatasses want to eat mcdonalds and taco bell, just let them and don't stand in their way.
And you will carry their free health care?
Sure, as long as its extended to everyone and not a select few I'll be happy to have some of my taxes go to that.
I can't support number 5, 6, or 7 because I am a pacifist. In order to enact these we will have to further enable government to use force (or the threat of force) in order to extract wealth from others. I refuse to support violence.
As I've mentioned in other replies, I understand that some of the items on this list will need to change. I'm try to figure out a way to do this democratically, but it's challenging since I haven't figured out a way to stop people from double voting on issues in online voting yet. I'll keep working on it, but in the mean time, do you have any suggestions?
Once I determine a solution, you will be able to vote at www.occupycommunity.org
.We need only one statement the everyone should be able to get behind.
SOVEREIGN RULE of the economy by the people and an elimination of money from public office and campaigns
Republicans, Democrats, Independents, Tea Partiers, OWS here is your chance!
I agree with you in principal that I would like to get money out of politics, but it is trickier than it sounds at first. How would your propose dealing with the first amendment issues surrounding political contributions?
The Supreme Court decision was the natural extension of the idea that corporations are 'people'. This is a relatively new idea that can be changed. Corporations are not people and should not be granted constitutional rights that individuals have. See http://www.corporatepolicy.org/pdf/CrayCharters2010.pdf
Ultimately it may require an Amendment to the Constituion, A New Constitution or a better challenge to the Supreme Court equating money with "free" speech.
However in the meantime we can demand accountability by requiring every candidate to list every corporate or pac donors or personal donations over a certain dollar amount on their website.
We can give public funding to those who swear off private money.
We can vote accordingly.
You should use the energy that you have tapped into to focus, Now, at this point you sould rally the American people to leave Bank America. If you really want to bring about change you must hit the 1% in their pocket book. Think about it, if people would close thier accounts at Bank America by the start of the year when the fees kick in. Then they will shake in their boots. Because now you are making a serious statement.
It's funny that you mentioned that. My wife and I just closed our Bank of America account on Saturday. We didn't have an account that would have been hit by their new ATM fee, but we agreed that we had a social responsibility to leave.
It takes two to screw us! Politicians to hold us down, so then the Corporations can do the screwing!!! Politicians need better rules to follow to prevent lobbying! We tax payers should also fund important elections, so the best person wins and not the one with the most money!!! Top 2 demands in my book! Write it down!
www.petition2congress.com/2376/
Do you think that the items on the list of goals are representative of your own views though?
I disagree with 3. Enact term limits for Congress. Term limits is the cry of a political party that is currently in 2nd place. There are no real benefits for turning a popular politician out of office.
I am leery of 7 for a variety of reasons... primarily because Obama's plan has already been co-opted http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wendell-potter/occupy-wall-street-should_b_1003429.html
8. sounds ominously like suggesting legalizations of drugs and prostitution
not legalization, but decriminalization. Maybe victimless crimes should be treated more like mental health issues and not like criminal behavior. For people whose lives have been ruined by drugs, they need help, not punishment.
sounds good.. but I think that goal is a little outside the scope of the movement right now. Same with universal health coverage. Right now, we need to bring in people and grow our numbers. Endorsing goals that half the population would argue against would merely label the movement as a liberal organization rather than a push by 99%.
We've got enough on our plate right now. Let's stick to goals that 99% of people would endorse.
I agree with you completely that we should stick to attainable goals first. The list is not necessarily representative of my own personal views. I tried to compile a list of goals from talking to participants (I tried for about 80% agreement in my non-scientific sample), but obviously the people who are out protesting are probably a little bit more radical than many of the silent supporters of the movement. It is important to try to come to some sort of consensus though. How would you propose doing this when so many people have hot button issues?
It's usually pretty obvious what issues are hot button ones. Drop those, just let 'em wither for now. Concentrate on goals that no one argues heavily against, like overturning some of the SCOTUS rulings that blatantly favored corporations over citizens, or demanding that voting machines have a paper trail. possibly run-off voting (might be a long-shot there).
Agreed. Let's start with an issue where there is broad agreement. We have created a petition with whitehouse.gov to make elections transparent and verifiable : https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/make-elections-transparent-and-verifiable/3D9pD2Q1 Please help us support this petition. (We need to muster 150 supporters for this to become publicly available)
How about throw out the unions
Why? Aren't there both good and bad aspects of unions? After all, if it weren't for unions wouldn't we all be like Walmart employees? Or is that to simplistic? Somebody have a link to a site that would explain this?
The Occupy Wall Street movement needs to be redirected to be Occupy the Fed. We were never taught in school how and why the Fed was underhandedly started. We were never taught the destruction of fractional banking and the powerful dynasty that owns the Bank of England and the Fed. Wall Street is only an instrument, the controlling entity needs to be held accountable, not the front. However, isolating the problem and exposing it is dangerous without having an alternative resolution because the private entity that controls the Fed could actually manipulate the economy beyond the precipice into complete depression.
"The United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit stated that: "The Reserve Banks are not federal instrumentalities for purposes of the FTCA [the Federal Tort Claims Act], but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Federal_Reserve
The founding fathers of this country predicted the situation that we are in now, it's going to take a massive public education movement to alter course.
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs." Thomas Jefferson, (Attributed) 3rd president of US (1743 - 1826)
Please start educating the American public as to how they can demand change as well as an economic alternative for them to support. This can't be the responsibility of a few, human life is expendable as history as shown.
The following two links document the history of the banks and what the American public is never told in school (unless they are Economic majors).
http://www.xat.org/xat/moneyhistory.html
http://www.petitiononline.com/fedres/petition.html
"When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes... Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain." Napoleon Bonaparte, 1815
I agree. People tend to forget there is an overarching system we live under that determines so much about our way of life. We currently live under a failed economic system, and the more people cling to it and allow it to stay in place, the worse things will get. This problem has to be tackled from a top down perspective.
Most are the typical leftist demands.
-2 Seems like a good and reasonable demand. Difficult to do because localities have always chosen their own balloting methods.
-3 will NEVER happen. The constitution needs to be amended for that and Congress will never do that to diminish their own power and power bases (I however FULLY SUPPORT term limits)
The rest are standard leftist crap. If this movement is so "inclusive" of all ideologies as people have been lied to in the claims, why are the demands so tilted leftist?
A lot of those goals would be very difficult to implement, but we tried to make the list representative of the views of most of the protesters we talked to. To answer your question about why the demands are tilted left, it's probably because the people we talked to were typically young, activist, protesters who represent one segment society. Our objective is to make the list of goals representative of the movement and democratically determined, but it is more difficult than it might first appear. For now you can propose your own goals at http://occupycommunity.org/propose-a-goal/ later we can vote to choose the best goals.
Your movement is nothing but a failure if you develop demands based on the people that are showing up in the park.
You will change nothing.
again, these are not demands, but goals, and goals evolve. I want to allow these goals to change democratically. How else would you propose choosing what to push for?
You have to be realistic first and come to terms with what can get passed through Congress, not a wish list of goals that "evolves".
If you want reform, you need to get rid of the Obama administration. There will NEVER be private sector job growth to employ many of the unemployed as long as this administration is in power.
Let me rephrase the question : how would you propose coming up with a set of goals that the majority of us can agree on?
The majority of who?
The people in the park and at the protests in other cities? The majority of the American public?
The American public and the majority of the people at these protests and not one and the same.
Let's start with an issue where there is broad agreement. I have created a petition with whitehouse.gov to make elections transparent and verifiable : https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/make-elections-transparent-and-verifiable/3D9pD2Q1 Please help me support this petition.
What is a victimless crime?
Another term that is often used is a "Consensual Crime". Its when the state tries to control the actions of consenting adults.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ain%27t_Nobody%27s_Business_If_You_Do
Wikipedia, you serious? Give me a real example.
That wasn't an example. It was a Wikipedia page about a great book written by the late Peter McWilliams about the subject. There is no example, because in my opinion there is no such thing. Its an oxymoron. The government however feels differently and even locked up Peter McWilliams for using marijuana while he was suffering from AIDS and cancer.
Your a fucking moron. You are protesting something that doesn't exist. What a dick!
No need for the foul language. Its laws against consensual crimes that I disagree with. I'm not protesting anything, I'm just another troll like you.
There are no laws against consensual crimes. Its just a theory. You are an asshole!
Laws against prostitution are laws against consensual crimes. For example when I paid your mother to lick my ass the police could have arrested me even though both your mother and I consented to the activity and the exchange of the three dollars.
You are a complete fucking idiot. There are laws against prostitution. How fucking stupid can you be? STFU and try to get your GED. Moron.
Consensual activity = your mother accepting three dollars to lick my ass
Crime = something that is deemed illegal
Consensual crime = when the government deems a consensual activity illegal
There is no room in a free society for laws against consensual activities.
Like I said you are a complete asshole
good question, I'm using it here as an action that violates the law, but does not bring harm to others. These kind of laws are almost never enforceable on a wide scale.
Give an example, I don't think there is such a thing.
ok, let's make a theoretical example since it's easier to understand. Pretend it were against the law to believe a religion not approved by the state. Now let's pretend I believe in a non approved religion. I keep it to myself, and I'm not hurting anyone. Since I believe it in my head, no one even knows I'm breaking the law, so it's impossible to enforce this law.
What are you fucking stupid? There are no approved religions.
You delusional fucking moron! what are you a child? I'm not wasting my time talking to idiots. Fuck off
I'm sorry you feel that way, Henry. The example was theoretical so that it could be used to illustrate a conceptually challenging topic. Please refrain from using offensive language in the future.
Fuck you I don't want to here about theory. That's for your radical left wing professors in school.
Make it work. give real examples, What the fuck are you talking about.