Forum Post: We do need a revolution, but to fight for what?
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 10, 2011, 10:22 p.m. EST by ezred
(0)
from Carlstadt, NJ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I and millions of others are so excited just to see workers and students finally fighting back. After a 40 year lull, we have proven once again that you can't step all over people indefinitely without a reaction. Since the end of Vietnam and the civil rights movement, they have tried to fool us and quiet us by serving up minority and women politicians, and tying us to unions whose leaders are like the enforcers for the bosses' plans. Meantime, they keep us divided with anti-immigrant campaigns and the ever present racism. But now that we are in motion we must understand that it is capitalism that is the problem and that it cannot be reformed. You cannot invent a capitalist that is not trying to maximize profits by decreasing costs of workers -- competition insures they would be put out of business. You cannot invent a capitalist system that is not trying to maximize markets and raw material resources around the globe and will use whatever means necessary, even nuclear weapons, to keep those things. You cannot have a capitalist system that does not try divide workers by creating every kind of prejudice and hate and saves billions by paying the most oppressed less and giving inferior services. As competition in the world grows and resources deplete, the US system must become ever more violent and oppressive, at home and abroad. The only alternative is a society run by workers and students, where human needs are primary and equal opportunity is the rule. That system, like it or not is called communism. It has been fought for before by millions of workers, who overthrew their oppressors, and they did some wonderful things. They also made terrible mistakes, like maintaining wages and wage differentials, encouraging ethnic differences, putting material advances above egalitarianism and political ideas. And they ended right back up with capitalism, fascist capitalism at that. So if we want to run things, we have to learn from those terrible mistakes. The problem is not greedy and selfish human nature -- we know that is not true. It is errors that were made the first times such a great change was tried. This exciting occupation will end, and instead of getting discouraged we must recognize that a long struggle is ahead, where we must educate and organize millions of workers, students and soldiers. Only then can we seize power for ourselves. Ultimately that will not be a peaceful transition and it will not happen at the ballot box. So lets carry on with a long range perspective to organize our fellow workers, of all backgrounds, to prepare for that great struggle. It will be exhilarating. A member of Progressive Labor Party
Krugman and Stiglitz have the answers
Paul Krugman makes me laugh. I fail to understand how anyone can take him serious.
here's some food for thought partner:
This great financial reform movement has been a dream of mine since 2008, after hearing the Congressional Hearing on Energy Reform and on how Financial Deregulations hurts the average hard working Americans, and turns undeserved brokers/executives into overnight Millionaires!
So I feel (and many others) that only way we can get back on safe financial footing again is to close the Enron Loophole, created for energy/oil speculators, and bring back The Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, which prevented the current banking and insurance scams/loopholes. After all, it worked great until late 90's, until when Congress threw it out. Since then, like prior to 1933, we are experiencing what our country went though then, total Wall Street Greed with no Penalties, its all legal Gambling now...thanks to the architects of our new system in 1999, President Clinton and Rep Senator Phil Gramm. Think about where we are now, it all started in 1999 with the subprime loans Gramm was peaching on Senate floor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKQOxr2wBZQ&feature=related
And for the Free Trade Movement, bringing back the Glass-Steagall Act will not hurt our financial markets or hinder Free Trade, as the GOP rhetoric claims, instead with this back in PLACE bankers can still make millions a day, but not the trillions as they do now on the accounts of hard working Americans.
Bankers need more regulation, not less. Don't let the Bankers new Game to charge for debit cards as the results of the Dodd/Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act surprise you. Right after it passed, we have the banking lobby on national TV saying that "we" will pay for it, after we bailed them out, What nerve! So this is their response to having it their way since 1999: We have have to find a way to give out Executives their way out of line bonuses: Bingo, charge for debit cards!
Cheers to all that are involved. Let's get focused and bring back Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, they got it right 1933, we don't need to reinvent the wheel because bringing this Act back will create an even playing field once again....and let's tell Congress to finally Close the Enron Loophole, which allowed Enron to charge what they wanted for energy; they went to jail for this, but no one closed the loophole, why? Re-election Monies from the banks and oil companies! The writing is on the wall.
Why we need Glass-Steagall to be reinstated:
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/03/071603.asp#axzz1aPEc3wXj http://www.counterpunch.org/2008/09/19/shattering-the-glass-steagall-act/
Why are oil prices high?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waL5UxScgUw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbdtTGYQBMU&feature=related
Well organized information and logical thought processes. I commend you and agree with your approach. Congress does not listen to the people. They listen to the Lobbyists. So I suggest a deficit cutting measure of taxing donations to lobbyists at 100% and mandatory disclosure of your lobbying activities to your sharelholders and why you are willing to pay the 100% tax! :)
what ever it takes to get back to 1999
This man speaks the truth. Moral hazard and rent seeking behavior are the enemies of the 99%.
what?
The moral hazard created by bailing out the banks - we set a precedent whereby the banks realize that they can take incredibly risky gambles and if they win, they keep the money, if they lose, we foot the bill.
Rent seeking behavior is the term applied to public officials whereby they may pander to the people but in reality all they are concerned with is protecting their job and their income (usually through corporate lobbying).
perfect, thanks!
end bush tax cuts , rebuild America bridges and roads , invest in middle class not banking class thats the occupy wall street message.
Although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management Group of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategic Legal Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures
Join
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
if you want to support a Presidential Candidate Committee at AmericansElect.org in support of the above bank-focused platform.
Uhhhhh - that would be a no. I'm sticking with my belief that we need to get the money out of the political process so that we all have equal and fair representation in government.
Given that Financial Institutions have failed us, that we, the tax payers, have to salvage them when they go under, that we cannot trust wall street icones anymore, I recommand that a new Bill of Rights be prepared and voted directly by the people (direct democracy) to promote only one fundamental principle, that is the principle of cooperation, i.e. one man one vote, regardless of the number of shares one owns in the institution. The principle of cooperation (much like it is the case for Credit Unions or a financial coopearative like Desjardins in Quebec) would be the only basis of incorporation of all Financial Institutions, including Banks, Trusts, Insurance companies, Loans companies, etc. Current institutions would be required by law to change their incorporation charters and retrofit themselves into cooperatives, with the priniciple of one man one vote as a new modus operandi. With this principle, the managers of Financial Institutions would't be able anymore to allocate themselves immoral bonuses like they do today, because they would never have more than one vote, like everybody else, in the organisation, regardless of the number of shares they might own. Majority share holders rules would then be something of the past
Given that Financial Institutions have failed us, that we, the tax payers, have to salvage them when they go under, that we cannot trust wall street icones anymore, I recommand that a new Bill of Rights be prepared and voted directly by the people (direct democracy) to promote only one fundamental principle, that is the principle of cooperation, i.e. one man one vote, regardless of the number of shares one owns in the institution. The principle of cooperation (much like it is the case for Credit Unions or a financial coopearative like Desjardins in Quebec) would be the only basis of incorporation of all Financial Institutions, including Banks, Trusts, Insurance companies, Loans companies, etc. Current institutions would be required by law to change their incorporation charters and retrofit themselves into cooperatives, with the priniciple of one man one vote as a new modus operandi. With this principle, the managers of Financial Institutions would't be able anymore to allocate themselves immoral bonuses like they do today, because they would never have more than one vote, like everybody else, in the organisation, regardless of the number of shares they might own. Majority share holders rules would then be something of the past
sorry, dead old mens ideologies are not interesting or relevant to solving modern political problems. we need science for that. not communism.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/corporate-oligarchy/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/thetruth-socialismcapitalismcommunismmarxism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-versus-corporatism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/no-war/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/help-me-understand/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-a-love-story/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/sociology/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/energy-101-solution/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ethics/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/break-your-left-right-conditioning/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/nader-kucinich-and-paul/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/5-facts-you-should-know-about-the-wealthiest-one-p/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/i-am-homeless-joe-jp-morgan-chase-accidentally-for/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/can-we-end-the-fed/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-end-the-federal-reserve-and-what-do-you-replac/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/where-are-we-and-how-do-we-move-forward/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/things-wall-st-did-were-not-illegal/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/teaching-the-occupation/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-forum-needs-structure/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-not-your-personal-billboard-for-your-politi/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/systems-theory-primer/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/organize-inform-take-action-effect-change/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/better-website-needed/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-playing-the-devils-games/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/nonviolence-the-only-path/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-not-against-capitalism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-is-not-about-political-stripe-it-is-about-bas/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/national-initiative-for-democracy/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-third-political-party-the-movement-of-the-middle/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/300-fema-camps/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-a-false-flag-operation/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-this-will-not-work/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/paradigm-shift-now/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-proposal-for-focus/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-the-bullshit-posts-and-get-organized/
what's wrong with peaceful transition?
SOVEREIGN CONTROL over the economy. An end to money in the political system.
I ask you to imagine a once free America. Imagine an America which promoted individual liberty and personal responsibility, not a welfare state. Imagine an America where the Constitution applied to every person and every case, no matter how bad the crime or criminal at suspect. Imagine an America restrained by the Constitution, due process and the rule of law. Imagine an America devoid of secret watch lists, secret prisons and secret assassinations.
Imagine a moral society which only engaged in just war and only as a last resort. Imagine an America, where the decision to go to war, is actually one declared by congress. Imagine an America which never endorsed the use of preventive wars to promote peace. Imagine an America where torture was never acceptable, even if called "enhanced" interrogation techniques. Imagine an America in which a warrant was always required to search or seize persons or property. Imagine an America which respected the writ of habeas corpus and condemned indefinitely detaining individuals.
Imagine an America where prosperity wasn't derived from private printing presses, but from true wealth. Imagine an America not ravished by endlessly spending a fiat currency in pursuit of economic growth; all the while promoting the welfare and warfare state. Imagine an America which encouraged savings at the same time destroying that very possibility by devaluing their currency through the deceitful act of controlled monetary inflation. Imagine an America where coins were still worth their weight. Imagine an American in which gold and silver were actually legal tender.
Imagine an America where children are not arrested for front yard lemonade stands. Imagine an America where you couldn’t be arrested and jailed for gardening on your property. Imagine an America without checkpoints where blood could be drawn against one's will, and without warrant. I ask you to imagine an America where citizens could make the simple decision to drink raw milk. Imagine an America which valued personal choice and responsibility above dictating morality through law. Imagine an America which allowed companies to actually protect their property and customers. Imagine an America where individuals actually had the right to their life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness as long as they didn’t endanger others.
Imagine if rights are actually derived from creation, and not from government.
Imagine now an America in which citizens understood and respected the experiment of liberty. Imagine now an America which still embraces the tired, the poor, and the huddled masses yearning to breathe free. Imagine now an America where the wretched refuse, the homeless, those searching for a New Colossus could venture to experience liberty. Imagine now America no longer safeguarded the liberty they sought, but only the security and secrecy of the state.
Imagine an America where ignorance isn’t sold as wisdom; and tolerance not delivered by force. Imagine an America where politicians stood behind American principles. Imagine an America where oath to the Constitution was taken seriously and always upheld. Imagine an America of resounding liberty; not one of ever incrementally increasing tyranny. Imagine America as she once was: free and prosperous.
Now try to imagine an idea. Imagine an idea so powerful, so strong in it conviction, no army or government could stop it. Imagine a return of the respect of the Constitution. Imagine a return to due process and the rule of law in all cases. Imagine a return to sound currency and sound monetary policy. Imagine the abolishment of partaking down the dangerous path of legislating morality. Imagine a return to a foreign policy of freedom and not of preemptive wars and nation building. Imagine the return to the ideals of extending friendship to all, and having entangling alliances with no one. Above all else, Imagine Liberty and understand the responsibility having it demands from each of us. Imagine America not as your Empire but as a Republic.
Freedom is a relatively new idea, liberty a young experiment. Imagine this youthful ideal lost to simple apathy and content. Imagine a chance to restore this ideal. Imagine if we had the chance to Restore America Now.
Imagine a Revolution. A Ron Paul Revolution.
Absolutely not, capitalism didn't get us into this mess - Big Government sleeping with Big Business did. The rich bankrolled the politicians in order to distort the capitalistic process and alter market incentives in such a way that innovative, efficient, and productive small businesses become strangled by governmental regulations all to the benefit of mega corporations. The problem is not capitalism but politicians corrupted by special interest lobbying.
We do need governmental oversight in the financial sector (re-instate Glass-Steagall) and to eliminate tax loopholes (which are only able to be exploited by the rich and well-connected) but we also need smaller government and less wasteful spending.