Forum Post: The Central Message We Need...
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 10, 2011, 4:44 p.m. EST by WorkingClassAntiHero
(352)
from Manchester, NH
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
There is a great deal of criticism by establishment players, professional activists and organizers and within the media that the Occupation Movement is neither sustainable nor purposeful as it lacks a central message.
As the body of the movement is comprised largely of a mish-mash of various factions (socialists, libertarians, unionists, partisans, anarchists, etc) all of whom have their own specific goals and vision for what it should stand for, this observation is not entirely without merit.
Being such, I would like to propose the following:
The Occupation Movement, throughout its various locations and within its various participant bodies, should adopt campaign finance reform as its central issue. Despite the pro or anti capitalist, pro or anti socialist and various other anti-authoritarian and anti-corruption messages being promoted throughout the various factions, ending (or at least managing) "corporate greed" and "corruption of government" is a central facet of nearly all platforms and positions.
And again, despite the variety of opinions regarding overall political or social structuring, nothing will strike to the core of corporate collusion and influence in government more than campaign finance. Politicians are bought and traded every day by financial giants and corporate elites. The democratic process and basic republican theory behind the United State's systems of government and popular sovereignty have been entirely undermined by the ability of powerful and resourceful entities to sway not only electoral processes, but legislative efforts by their ability to fund, defund, support or oppose a candidacy.
This has not only institutionalized the corruption of government, but has also industrialized and dominated popular activism, and has taken control of our collective resources in terms of labor and vocalized populism.
For this reason, I ask that all parties and individuals involve adopt the message and call to "END PRIVATE MONEY'S PRESENCE AND INFLUENCE IN OUR POLITICAL AND ELECTORAL SYSTEMS."
I agree completely. We need to cut our teeth on this issue that everyone can get behind! The rest of it can wait because frankly, the rest of it is going to take a hell of a lot longer to get anything near a consensus on!
Campaign Finance Reform first!
Yes, real and permanent campaign finance reform is definitely the issue here. None of the other great ideas will not get any real traction until we have taken our democracy out of the hands of the 1% and put it in the hands of all the people, equally. I recommend the we demand a 28th Constitutional Amendment - anything less would be too easily subject to endless legal challenge and/or repeal.
Please repost and promote the message...as your own if you must...don't care. Just get the word out.
I'm not going to vote for my own posts - just those of others with whom I agree. If you like my idea, you vote it up (can't help but notice that you didn't vote on this post). If not, then just vote for the ideas you like best, and above all, let the peoples' voice finally be heard!!
Hear hear, we need to let the Conservatives know that we represent them as well.
Bump for freedom
The passion in this movement appears to be on taking back the government for the people and away from corporate interests which have hijacked it. The rest of the issues flow from this basic problem. What feeds the corporate takeover is money and the corporations' ability to use it to influence the political process against the people. However, I do not think simply talking about campaign finance reform will be "sexy" enough for the public to care about. I think it needs to be a multi-prong attack. First: Demand a constitutional amendment only allowing natural persons to participate in the political process and to only allow state funding of elections. (The boring but highly necessary goal). We then need some red meat to send to the people. Here are some suggestions. Demand a return to the republican tax rates on the rich in the first term of the Reagan Presidency - around 50% (Hard to turn down Reagan). Demand nearly free higher education and forgive student loans at least to a certain extent. Demand that the government cannot enter into plea bargains with the banks and other corporations to pay money to avoid criminal liability. Perhaps have a maximum wage law. Set it high but make it impossible to earn over $10 million a year or something. The possibilities are endless.
If it's red meat you want, try this: http://occupywallst.org/forum/idea-for-a-possible-general-set-of-goals/#comment-60803
You all are great! This great financial reform movement has been a dream of mine since 2008, after hearing the Congressional Hearing on Energy Reform and on how Financial Deregulations hurts the average hard working Americans, and turns undeserved brokers/executives into overnight Millionaires!
So I feel (and many others) that only way we can get back on safe financial footing again is to close the Enron Loophole, created for energy/oil speculators, and bring back The Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, which prevented the current banking and insurance scams/loopholes. After all, it worked great until late 90's, until when Congress threw it out. Since then, like prior to 1933, we are experiencing what our country went though then, total Wall Street Greed with no Penalties, its all legal Gambling now...thanks to the architects of our new system in 1999, President Clinton and Rep Senator Phil Gramm. Think about where we are now, it all started in 1999 with the subprime loans Gramm was peaching on Senate floor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKQOxr2wBZQ&feature=related
And for the Free Trade Movement, bringing back the Glass-Steagall Act will not hurt our financial markets or hinder Free Trade, as the GOP rhetoric claims, instead with this back in PLACE bankers can still make millions a day, but not the trillions as they do now on the accounts of hard working Americans.
Bankers need more regulation, not less. Don't let the Bankers new Game to charge for debit cards as the results of the Dodd/Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act surprise you. Right after it passed, we have the banking lobby on national TV saying that "we "will pay for it, after we bailed them out, What nerve! So this is their response to having it their way since 1999: We have have to find a way to give out Executives their way out of line bonuses: Bingo, charge for debit cards!
Cheers to all that are involved. Let's get focused and bring back Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, they got it right 1933, we don't need to reinvent the wheel because bringing this Act back will create an even playing field once again....and let's tell Congress to finally Close the Enron Loophole, which allowed Enron to charge what they wanted for energy; they went to jail for this, but no one closed the loophole, why? re-election Monies from the banks and oil companies! The writing is on the wall.
Why we need Glass-Steagall to be reinstated:
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/03/071603.asp#axzz1aPEc3wXj http://www.counterpunch.org/2008/09/19/shattering-the-glass-steagall-act/
Why are oil prices high?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waL5UxScgUw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbdtTGYQBMU&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNp0y0SjOkY&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-kExdTgNZA&feature=channel
Completely agreed - we need to make this known before any more political or union affiliations become attached to the movement.
See: http://occupywallst.org/forum/importance-of-solidarity/#comment-57629
You're right. I hope this becomes the central issue. I think this is the central issue.
Promote it as your own if you believe it.
Then repost and promote it brother.
One galvanized message should be the stance of Occupy Wall Street. It plain and simple. When everyone realizes that human behavior drives economics that we have a lot more power than you think.
The message is simple. We will start boycotting EVERY company who is showing enormous profits and not re-investing those profits into creating jobs. We will boycott EVERY bank who is not lending money for mortgages and job expansion.
And instead of just saying it, we do it and hold to our guns, we literally can take down these greedy 1% who think they have us by the balls.
Remember, there are a lot more of us in numbers then there are of them.
When WE THE PEOPLE stand up and take a stance and start boycotting these companies and banks, THEY WILL LISTEN!
REMEMBER... Action speaks louder than words!
Get this message out, and act on it and WE TAKE control once and for all!
A shameless bump for an important message.
Why not use www.citizen.org for campaign finance reform? That group seems to be focused squarely on the subject. Took me all of 3 seconds to find it via Google... Don't hijack our thread!
I wrote this thread. So its unlikely I'll need to hijack it.
Yes...but it's quite a long way from the central point of fixing Wall Street's problems. Why not join a forum that is focused more on campaign finance reform? Personally, I'm more interested in fixing Wall Street's problems first. That's why I'm here...
How do you intend on fixing Wall Street?
down with Goldman Sac, Down with Jp Morgan Chase. Financial terrorist Jamie Dimon, Lloyd Blankfein put pay for the fraud committed on wallstreet
Bring back Glass-Steagall, remove corporate money from politics,especially from our supreme court. Demand corporate america pays its fair share in taxes, demand that corporate losses not be socialized. Demand fair trade agreements to stop the flow of our jobs overseas. Demand that investment in public education be restored, and finally bring in Bill Black to prosecute those who have committed fraud, which by the way Obama claims did not occur.
I agree that money is the root of the problem. With the Citizens United U.S. Supreme Court decision I do not think congress can simply legislate away the influence of money, nor can it legislate away corporate personhood because of other supreme court decisions. I think we need to push hard for a constitutional amendment that simply says "Only natural persons may participate in the political process." It gets the money out and establishes that only real people can attempt to influence the political process.
Or simply that no money or material, financial support from any private entity shall be used to pay for electoral campaigns in the United States, save for that appropriated from taxed revenue, which shall be distributed evenly amongst recognized candidates at the various levels of voting rounds.
Good idea too! Why not combine the two. I really think the money is the most corrupting problem for the republic. I am concerned that it will be hard to get the congress to certify a constitutional amendment to the states. There is the Article V constitutional convention option where the states can demand a convention to amend the constitution. It might be easier to convince more responsive local legislators than the, in my opinion, completely corrupt federal government.
Firstly, I would be misguided of me perhaps to not comment on your characterization of OWS, I SINCERELY BELIEVE, that the 200+ million of us, the ones THAT DO NOT VOTE are all PRETTY MUCH THE SAME, I enjoy characterizing these people as the Progressive-Conservatives of america... the underlying part that WANTS morals and ethics and standards, whats to hate? BUT at the SAME TIME wants a system that is dynamic and changing, NOT A VANGUARD PARTY, as some will surely say, but a system were checks and balances don't just apply to government, but to other social systems as well... education, the law, the tax code... I believe that these Progressive-Conservatives really UNDERSTAND that this nation was founded on a sense... Of... Common Sense, Reason, simple debate... nothing profoundly Anarchistic.
I would lean to disagree, it's my feeling that this needs to be much MORE introspective than simply Finance reform, of course this ought be included, but mainly my concern is... Cultural, we MUST discuss OUR problems, our faults, and our failings in the past.. return to traditional law, see: glass-steagall. We must discuss; Our Foreign Policy, Our Policing, Our Education, Immigration, Abortion, Civil Rights, Health Care, and sooooo much more most of these things I believe are on the minds of the public right now.
We must discuss these things indeed. However in terms of the active collective, it is comprised of so many varying political leanings and ideologies. Philosophies, which in terms of messaging and galvanizing of the otherwise general populist movement, are destined to create fractures within it, which is NOT what the fledgling movement requires.
Different ideas and the development of a more dynamic political system, in which sound conversations and arguments over the policies you outlined and more will never see their way to power unless we first attack the mechanics of that which systemically corrupts our public institutions.
For now yes, I would agree with you there, as I've been saying for a very long time... Now is the time for a Second Enlightenment, on ALL fronts...
I'm only speaking in regards to what I believe will help carry this movement forward and accomplish the goals we not only share, but bring us to a point where we can honestly and more passionately argue over that which we do not.
Indeed.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/where-are-we-and-how-do-we-move-forward/
Again, regardless of what you believe regarding the Fed, or what you want to see done with it, such a message will ONLY resonate with a small portion of the movement. Divergence on this issue will create divisions within the OWS movement that will weaken it and ultimately make it irrelevant.
If you want an open debate about the role, nature or function of the Federal Reserve, we first need to clean out the processes by which our government is formed. Unless we have a legitimate state, free of specific interest influences such as those posed by the corporatocracy, any issue or concern of legitimacy or concern to the proper public will not be debated honestly without the filters of corporate influence. We'll never have clean government that works on behalf of the public until we eliminate the tools of private influence and control.
We will not fix any of our country's economic problems as long as the Federal Reserve is employed by the US government. Social reform is not enough. We have to take the state of the economy into consideration when choosing our battles. Our economy is unsustainable. Our economy will become infinitely more unstable if you take money out of politics without firing the Federal Reserve. This is not a "your opinion" "my opinion" type of thing...this is simple economics. Our government does not have the constitutional authority to hire a private bank to manipulate global currencies.
This isn't about social reform. Its about government reform. It is the belief of many that "if only the right politicians could get elected," anything from public healthcare to an end to the federal reserve could be accomplished. We all have things we want to see happen. All have ideas we think are absolutely vital for the survival of our economy, society, global status, whatever...
The fact is nothing of what we, the people and public of the United States can ever hope for out of our government will ever be possible, so long as it is dependent upon its business and financial institutions for its politics as it is. Unless we can open our options in terms of political office holders up to candidates whose only impulses or ideological loyalties lie with their national and social consciences and the hard data available to them, there will be no discussion of the Fed, regulatory reforms, subsidy or revenue reappropriation or elimination...none of it.
The movement needs a central cause, but one that speaks to every factions issues. The ownership of our elections by corporate American interests and multinationals in the form of campaign financing and campaign support needs to end first and so long as every other faction (anti-Fed, anti-socialism, anti-capitalism, anti-war, you name it) involved in this movement can effectively promote this as a necessary step, none of their particular beliefs, arguments or positions will ever be spoken in the halls of power.
Its how we take the power back.
I would agree with you if you include unions as well. Bundling by unions goes on everyday, just like bundling by other organizations. We had campaign finance laws which did nothing. The main problem I see is non-transparency with what corporations/unions/individual backers, etc. give to each party and each candidate. If I support a candidate that believes in oil and gas production, then it would make sense that if I went to his website I would see that Exxon gave him money and I would know that he/she will vote that way. The problem comes in when you may back a candidate that is for green energy and not find out until after an election that he took money from the oil industry and actually voted against legislation that would help green energy. See the problem is as a voter, I don't know who is giving to any particular candidate. I would prefer that all candidates for any office be forced, by law, to account for every single dollar that is brought into their campaign and by whom, whether individual, corporation, etc.
Goes for EVERYONE. Unions, Exxon-mobil, Goldman Sachs, NARAL Pro Choice. I don't care. Standardized election funding is all that will fix this. Eliminate ALL private money and we'll have our govt. back.
I really can't disagree with you on that, just not sure how it would work, honestly. I mean how many millionaires; Kerry; Schwartzenagger; Bloomberg; Corzine, etc. were able to just write a check from their own fortunes and run for office? while they may have to follow the rules of the campaigning process, behind the scenes, get out the vote (which is nothing more than paying people to vote for you, busing them in), would we really see a change. I prefer term limits for all and transparency only because I think those are things that voters can actually see.
Good point. Getting corporate money out of politics is only part of the solution. Transparency and donation limits are also necessary. Maybe we need public financing of all elections, so that money does not distort the needs of the public.
This is where my thinking on the matter begins. It levels the playing field for aspiring statesmen (statespeople for PC purposes) to rise on their ideals, while removing more than half of the popular causes for governmental corruption.
If the politicians are not dependent on money as they are now, they can actually govern, instead of legislating for their reelection coffers, and campaigning on behalf of their sponsors. A restoration of the republic.
People
The “Occupy Wall Street” movement seems to be the final hope for America. Our current leadership, both political and business, work together, to keep their lifestyles, as high as possible. However, when the rest of America, that does the hard work necessary to maintain these lifestyles, complains about the distribution of wealth, their attitude is similar to Marie Antoinette's supposed statement, "Let them eat Cake" from the French Revolution. Fortunately, our problems are much less, than during the French Revolution, many are of our own doing, and we have the bloodless means of correcting these problems.
A few ideas on how to get there: 1.It's and old and true idea. “Through the Rascals Our”. If we do nothing else but vote against any incumbent, we will at least gain a new group of leaders who the lobbyists don't know. It will take the lobbyists several years to convince our new leadership that “What's Good for Wall Street is Good for the USA”.
2.Insurance companies should only sell insurance to one group, the entire population of the US, everybody gets the same benefits, and anybody can buy any policy written. This is also the policy for all government employees and social security recipients. Quit trying to figure clever way to exclude the sick and dying. They end up haunting the emergency rooms, driving up our total expenditures for healthcare, while the insurance system forces the sick and dying to beg for aid. Let the insurances companies, work on trying to reduce overall medical costs, with less paperwork and prompt, effective medical care.
3.Raise the minimum wage. There are too many families with both parents working, and unable to provide the basic needs of their modest families. Our friends at “Wall Street” have found the recession a great boon to their bottom line. With 10 people applying for every available job, they have used this to cuts wages and benefits.
4.The money necessary can only come from the one source that has any, Wall Street. This means raising the taxes on the rich. The best part of this, is that in Wall Street's way of thinking, rich doesn't include people making less than 1 million a year.
None of these issues can be addressed until the electoral system is cleaned up. The instrument through which our government is created and recreated is fundamentally corrupt, making honest debate and legislation upon the issues you've outlined cannot happen until the influences and interests have their hold and power destroyed.
Thank you for the bump.
It takes two to screw us! Politicians to hold us down, so then the Corporations can do the screwing!!! Politicians need better rules to follow to prevent lobbying! We tax payers should also fund important elections, so the best person wins and not the one with the most money!!! Top 2 demands in my book! Write it down!
Lobbying needs reform. Absolutely. Financing needs to come first. Repost or promote if you support it.
Just bumping this post up...
Appreciate it brother. Feel free to repost as your own. Credit for messages is the game/realm of the professionals. I just want people to hear this.
I want people to hear it also ...
I hope we can come together and fix the simple and obvious things first. Then we can move on to the issues we don't all agree on, And do it with a fair government, one that is truly of the people.
I couldn't agree more.
thats a good start and good timing for a campaign idea that could create waves over the next year? The Occupation Movement, throughout its various locations and within its various participant bodies, should adopt campaign finance reform as its central issue. Despite the pro or anti capitalist, pro or anti socialist and various other anti-authoritarian and anti-corruption messages being promoted throughout the various factions, ending (or at least managing) "corporate greed" and "corruption of government" is a central facet of nearly all platforms and positions.
And again, despite the variety of opinions regarding overall political or social structuring, nothing will strike to the core of corporate collusion and influence in government more than campaign finance. Politicians are bought and traded every day by financial giants and corporate elites. The democratic process and basic republican theory behind the United State's systems of government and popular sovereignty have been entirely undermined by the ability of powerful and resourceful entities to sway not only electoral processes, but legislative efforts by their ability to fund, defund, support or oppose a candidacy.
This has not only institutionalized the corruption of government, but has also industrialized and dominated popular activism, and has taken control of our collective resources in terms of labor and vocalized populism.
For this reason, I ask that all parties and individuals involve adopt the message and call to "END PRIVATE MONEY'S PRESENCE AND INFLUENCE IN OUR POLITICAL AND ELECTORAL SYSTEMS."
Please feel free to copy and paste this thread thesis as your own, either here or elsewhere. The corporatist trolls are beginning to spam us.
Again, please repost if you agree.
Presently a corporatist presence is trolling the forum. Reposting can help bump down their message, while promoting this one. And please, when you do so, do so under your own name. This should not be "MY" idea. It should be a promoted consensus, as is appropriate for a populist movement.
This is something everyone can agree upon. Its a easy issue for everyone to stand behind. I agree.
Please repost if you agree.
I second this. Nearly everyone can get behind ending corporate influence and reforming the way our government representatives are sponsored.
If we can tackle this issue first, then we can open the debate to more complex issues.
Keep it non-partisan. Represent the 99% with care. Oppose anyone of any political affiliation from pushing an agenda. Reach out to those who oppose us or are misinformed of our purpose. Stay positive, proactive and in all that you do for the 99%, seek to unite the people, not divide them.
Most importantly, stay true to what you know is right.
"END PRIVATE MONEY'S PRESENCE AND INFLUENCE IN OUR POLITICAL AND ELECTORAL SYSTEMS."
A central message is actually what is immediately needed, as without it, the vague and general rage and populist action will be hijacked by the same competing interests who see partisan political ends which can be reached via co-option of the movement's means.
This is not random brainstorming. This is a call to adopt a single central message to galvanize the existing popular factions which comprise the body of the movement into a single voice.
Adoption of this position, I believe, will supersede (for the time being) the specific differences between the various groups and factions, allowing for their common goals to be achieved. Differences on tax, social, foreign, domestic, etc. policy, will be easier to debate and decide upon once our government is freed from the yoke of the campaign money chase and the lobbying opportunities which are opened up as a result of it.
whats needed is meaningful open source direct democracy science centered problem solving process, organizing into think tanks, a wiki and sub forums.... not random brainstorming.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/thetruth-socialismcapitalismcommunismmarxism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-versus-corporatism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/help-me-understand/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-a-love-story/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/sociology/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/energy-101-solution/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ethics/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/break-your-left-right-conditioning/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/nader-kucinich-and-paul/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/5-facts-you-should-know-about-the-wealthiest-one-p/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/i-am-homeless-joe-jp-morgan-chase-accidentally-for/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/can-we-end-the-fed/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-end-the-federal-reserve-and-what-do-you-replac/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/teaching-the-occupation/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-forum-needs-structure/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-not-your-personal-billboard-for-your-politi/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/systems-theory-primer/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/organize-inform-take-action-effect-change/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/better-website-needed/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-playing-the-devils-games/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/nonviolence-the-only-path/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-not-against-capitalism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-is-not-about-political-stripe-it-is-about-bas/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/national-initiative-for-democracy/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-third-political-party-the-movement-of-the-middle/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/300-fema-camps/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-a-false-flag-operation/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-this-will-not-work/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/paradigm-shift-now/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-proposal-for-focus/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-the-bullshit-posts-and-get-organized/
end bush tax cuts , rebuild America bridges and roads , invest in middle class not banking class thats the occupy wall street message.
Stiglitz and Krugman know the way
to poverty.