Forum Post: How many of you have actually been on the TEA PARTY website
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 10, 2011, 9:29 a.m. EST by hoot
(313)
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You should really check it out there a very organized similar to some extent version of ows but if you notice on the left it says what they are about only limiting gov and putting more power in peoples hands i know alot of you only subscribe to liberal media and dont know what the tea party is about... and i'm sure many of you will talk about how members of the tea party are crazy reiligious fanatics, look at stephen lerner hes a big part of this ows hes just as radical as any religious nutjob... anyway check em out
these two protests need to join we would be an unstoppable force litteraly unstoppable
Yeah mean the group that booed a gay service member and yelled "let him die" about the hypothetical guy with no insurance... yeah...um...thanks but no thanks.
can you send me a url just like all of you people are inviduals with various different beliefs the tea party is as well yes some on them are crazy but not everyone in the tea party feels that way however the fundamental difference between ows and the tea party is that the tea party has specific goals although few in number its certainly doable and that is to lessen govs power go back to the constitution
Exactly, many more people will come to your side when you are proactive (for “new” Business & Government solutions), instead of reactive (against “old” Business & Government solutions), which is why what we most immediately need is a comprehensive “new” strategy that implements all our various socioeconomic demands at the same time, regardless of party, and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management System of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves; that is, using a Focused Direct Democracy organized according to our current Occupations & Generations. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategically Weighted Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures
Join
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
because we need 100,000 “support clicks” at AmericansElect.org to support a Presidential Candidate -- such as any given political opportunist you'd like to draft -- in support of the above bank-focused platform.
Most importantly, remember, as cited in the first link above, that as Bank Owner-Voters in your 1 of 48 "new" Business Investment Groups (or "new" Congressional Committees) you become the "new" Congress replacing the "old" Congress according to your current Occupation & Generation, called a Focused Direct Democracy.
Therefore, any Candidate (or Leader) therein, regardless of party, is a straw man, a puppet; it's the STRATEGY – the sequence of steps – that the people organize themselves under, in Military Internet Formation of their Individual Purchasing & Group Investment Power, that's important. In this, sequence is key.
Why? Because there are Natural Social Laws – in mathematical sequence – that are just like Natural Physical Laws, such as the Law of Gravity. You must follow those Natural Social Laws or the result will be Injustice, War, etc.
The FIRST step in Natural Social Law is to CONTROL the Banks as Bank Owner-Voters. If you do not, you will inevitably be UNJUSTLY EXPLOITED by the Top 10% Management Group of Business & Government who have a Legitimate Profit Motive, just like you, to do so.
Consequently, you have no choice but to become Candidates (or Leaders) yourselves as Bank Owner-Voters according to your current Occupation & Generation.
So please JOIN the 2nd link, so we can make our support clicks at AmericansElect.org when called for by e-mail from the group in the 2nd link, and then you will see and feel how your goals can be accomplished within the strategy of the 1st link as a “new” Candidate (or Leader) of your Occupation & Generation.
Like OWS, the tea party is not a single group with a single platform. Like us, they can't control the loonies who flock to their side. But yes, absolutely, left and right need to unite!
Go to the "About Us" page: http://theteaparty.net/inner.asp?z=40
Here's what you'll find:
We have contributed or sponsored other Tea Party, conservative and charitable non-profit organizations and events, including:
Campaign to Defeat Obama Wounded Warrior Project Contract From America Org Patriot Action Network ACU[1] and CPAC{2] Our goal is to add about 40 to 50 Tea Party/conservative organizations to this list in 2011 alone, where TheTeaParty.net is donating to other Tea Party-related organizations every month to help support their conservative mission as well.
[1] American Conservative Union: Traditional Republican Think Tank (http://www.conservative.org/)
[2] Conservative Political Action Committee: Republican PAC. http://cpac2012.conservative.org.
Who's the head of the Tea Party in the House of Reps? Michele Bachmann. --she's a crazy, religious fanatic.
Town Hall meetings with our new TeaPartyCyberTour.com site hosted by Rusty Humphries with video streaming live with
Presidential Candidates:
Michele Bachmann Herman Cain
Congressional and Leadership series with:
Allen West[1] Phyllis Schlafly[2]
[1] He's the insane republican from Florida. (http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/07/19/272794/allen-west-obama-supporters-gene-pool/)
[2] This woman is as hardcore right wing as they come. (http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2010/07/30/110816/schlafly-obama/)
Agreed. Combining these movements is brillant! Small government + corporations not buying votes. This would go a long way to fixing America. There are always going to be people that are considered "nuts". Saddly, they are the ones that get recognition. Ignore the "nuts" and look to the ideals of both movements.
Agreed. Combining these movements is brillant! Small government + corporations not buying votes. This would go a long way to fixing America. There are always going to be people that are considered "nuts". Saddly, they are the ones that get recognition. Ignore the "nuts" and look to the ideals of both movements.
There is no "Tea Party". The various websites you see are from factions that are trying to hijack the movement. So far, the religious fundamentalists are winning.....
Just completely ingenuous is all I can see. The website has a small caption that says it's non-profit, non-partisan.
But on the page instructing members on how to vote they say: "What we do share in common is supporting the most conservative, constitutional, limited government, free market candidates available in any given election. It really doesn’t matter what political party the candidate is in but quite frankly we cannot find any currently in the Democrat party near to support these principles."
They include "Individual Freedoms" as a core principle but they tout people who have spoken against same-sex marriage, against the repeal of Dont-ask-don't-tell, and against a woman's right to choose.
These are the people who are just paving the way for the 1% to gain complete control of whatever's left of the government once they make it small enough to drown in a bathtub. They're the vanguard of the corporate coup d'etat that's taking place right under our noses.
Yes! we need to join forces. it's not a left vs. right issue - it's a top/bottom issue. OWS should be careful not to let the democratic party hijack our movement because it is trying to capitalize on us just as the republican party is trying to capitalize on the tea party. let's not polarize. let's unite.
Good post! I see the same thing, the Tea Party and OWL have many of the same goals. If we could compromise on the ones we disagree on, we might get the important changes we both want.
its very true we can at least get rid of the fed...at the very least
The tea party has a simple demand: get government out of the economy so we can have pure capitalism.
It would be nice if OWS had a similarly simple but OPPOSITE demand: get capitalism out of the economy so we can have pure democracy.
A democratic economy is an economy that works well for everyone as a right. http://occupywallst.org/forum/you-guys-are-kidding-yourselves-if-you-think-capit/
But the OWS should learn from the Tea Party. They are organized, have a clear message, a clear goal, a plan and a lot of results.
That's a big part of the problem right there: it's not simple. This is a complex, massive society and "getting rid of government" is not the solution.
And #OWS understands that simple, superficial approaches like that just don't work. #OWS understands that this is a mixed economy and society. The government is evil mentality ignores all the benefits we get from the government. Including the ability to interact on the Internet (hint: government research invented basic internet technology, which was then refined and became the World Wide Web).
Doctrinaire theories and orthodoxy are not the solution. Prioritizing needs and resources are.
Finland and Germany both have strong economic systems--AND social programs. We need to learn from them.
I've been to the Tea Party website, and the state Tea Party website. And i've been emailing their contact list trying to reach out to them.
Seconded. We need to join together. We need to find common ground.
i will try to get as many tea party members to wall street as i can i promise you that
Great to hear.
the tea party is a right wing astroturf con scam. I'd like to see some common ground and etc, but over all what will tend to go on is in the minds of most far right wingers we are the enemy.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/thetruth-socialismcapitalismcommunismmarxism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-versus-corporatism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/help-me-understand/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-a-love-story/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/sociology/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/energy-101-solution/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ethics/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/break-your-left-right-conditioning/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/nader-kucinich-and-paul/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/5-facts-you-should-know-about-the-wealthiest-one-p/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/i-am-homeless-joe-jp-morgan-chase-accidentally-for/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/can-we-end-the-fed/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-end-the-federal-reserve-and-what-do-you-replac/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/teaching-the-occupation/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-forum-needs-structure/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-not-your-personal-billboard-for-your-politi/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/systems-theory-primer/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/organize-inform-take-action-effect-change/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/better-website-needed/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-playing-the-devils-games/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/nonviolence-the-only-path/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-not-against-capitalism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-is-not-about-political-stripe-it-is-about-bas/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/national-initiative-for-democracy/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-third-political-party-the-movement-of-the-middle/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/300-fema-camps/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-a-false-flag-operation/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-this-will-not-work/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/paradigm-shift-now/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-proposal-for-focus/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-the-bullshit-posts-and-get-organized/
thats not true you are not the enemy but the misguided friend
This is not partisan. There has been a massive "wealth redistribution" that has gone on for the last 30 years. The top 1% now controls over 42% of our entire nation's wealth and the top 10% now controls over 70% of our entire nation's wealth. The bottom 50% now control around 2% of our entire nation's wealth. (University of Southern California Study).
How did this wealth redistribution happen? The middle class is the engine of our economy. The middle class spends their wealth on corporate goods/services and the corporations take that money in as profit. The corporations redistributed the middle class wealth by paying vast majority of their profits out to the executives at the top and shareholders. Middle class wages have stagnated for 30 years while executive wages have gone up 256% in since 1980. Even last year executive compensation went up another 11%. We have not seen numbers like this since the great depression. All of our nation's wealth has been redistributed into the hands of the few.
How did this happen? The middle class was roped into replacing wages with easy credit and loans. So instead of paying people living wages, corporations fooled us into thinking we were doing well and could afford things by giving us easy credit instead of wages. Corporations came up with the brilliant idea that they could loan us money instead of paying us wages. Instead of having wages to buy t.v.'s, furniture, etc. we were given easy loans. So the middle class became a debtor class.
There used to be a tax disincentive to paying out all of corporate profits at the top because in the 1950's income was taxed at 90% over a certain amount money ($2 million in today's dollars) and now that tax disincentive has disappeared. In 1950's the highest marginal tax rate was 90%. In 1960-1970's it was 70%. In 1980's it dropped to 49%. In 1990's dropped to 39%. Under George Bush it dropped to a mere 36%.
We have had over 30 years of massive tax cuts for the wealthy. There is now no tax disincentive to paying out all of the corporate wealth at the top. And there is no employee bargaining power because now less than 7% of all of private sector jobs are unionized.
With no tax disincentive and no employee bargaining power, all of the corporate profits are being paid to shareholders and executives. Why can't you just trust executives to pay people fair wages? In the 1980's our courts ruled that corporate executives only have one duty and that is to maximize shareholder profits. The 1980's ruling single-handedly removed executives from having any duties to their employees, society, or to the company's long-term future. Executives only have one duty and that is to maximize short-term shareholder profits. And executive compensation is usually directly tied to maximizing short-term shareholder profits. This caused companies to not create long-term growth plans and to instead use gimmicks to increase short-term profits.
In fact, instead of executives using innovation, creation, and growth to increase profits and stock prices, executives know that they can do it through easier methods like laying-off workers and cost-cutting like pushing healthcare and retirement costs on workers.
The problems are: 1) deregulation of the banks by the Republican-controlled congress in 1999 (Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act); 2) hedge funds are exempt from regulation (and are currently causing the world financial crisis by betting against Greece and other Euro nations and the Euro currency); 3) tax system no longer has a disincentive against paying outrageous executive salaries (highest marginal tax rate has dropped from 90% to 36%); 4) commodities market (oil, gold, food, metals) is exempt from regulation and is now a haven for financial speculators (Republican-controlled Congress exempted it in the Commodities Future Modernization act of 2000); 5) the Supreme Court has ruled that corporations can spend unlimited funds in campaign elections - Citizen's United case (thus politicians on both sides favor the wealthy/corporations) and 6) the rise of corporate/billionaire propaganda media "news." Because of the need to raise massive sums in politics today, we no longer have a party that represents the people. The Democrats have to chase the corporate and big money donors too.
What can we do about this: 1) re-instate Glass-Steagall Act regulating the banks; 2) regulate hedge funds and the commodities market (because the commodities market is not regulated speculation has caused prices for commodities to go through the roof); 3) get rid of the money in politics (have federally funded elections with clear limits on spending and no outside groups allowed to have ads); 4) get rid of 1980's laws stating that corporations' only duty is to maximize shareholder profits; and 5) regulate "news" channels and newspapers (no more "slanted opinion news" masquerading as hard news) and reinstitute the fairness doctrine across all news outlets to ensure that both sides get equal time.
If human nature means the acceptance of the Entitlement Theory, because you are born on the side of the victor and that gives you right to believe you have property to protect, then I understand your fragile sense of security.
yes, i don't feel secure in this society do you? isn't that why your protesting, because you dont feel secure in this system?
There are only two movements: 1) The continuing struggle for all people to live sustainable life's for the betterment of all; 2) the continuing war to destroy the struggle for all people to live sustainable life's for the betterment of the 1%. Which one do you think the Tea Party belongs? Most importantly, where do you belong?
i'm not sure i mean i belong with neither i belong with the group that understands human nature and peoples right to individual property and thats the tea party
unless the alienated left and alienated right (i.e. 99%) find compromise, the other 1% will continue to dominate the political agenda. both sides need to boil down messaging and move beyond partisan lines.
"these two protests need to join we would be an unstoppable force litteraly unstoppable"
We need to join because we all want the same thing. Our different political views is what makes this country great. But we share something much bigger in common and that is that we are all 99%ers.
To me we the 99%ers are those that have no voice in this country. It doesn't matter if you are a Republican, Independent, Democrat, Tea Partier, believe in Socialism or Capitalism. Contrary to what you believe none of us actually has a voice in this county. We have been taught to believe that if we elect our respective parties into power that our goals and ideas will be done. Well guess what people, it won’t. The only people in this county with a voice are the 1%ers!
Who are the 1%ers you may ask? Well I say they are the large corporations and special interest groups who TRULY run this country. They are the groups of individuals who spend millions upon millions of dollars each year to convince YOUR congressman, YOUR senator, YOUR President to do what best suits them regardless as to what's in the best interest of the rest of the 99% of this country.
Think about it, the root of every problem we face as a county regardless as to political beliefs boils down to who's willing to pay the most money to see their agenda done. So until we fix this system of legalized BRIBERY also known as lobbying this country will never ever be the place we dreamed that it could be.
Oh and if you don't believe me, ask yourself when was the last time you tracked down your congressman or senator in the capital between meetings and offered up a large some of money in order to see a piece of legislation passed that best interested you?
the tea party is nothing like us.
First off speak for yourself, not the movement. "Us" ? You aren't our spokesperson.
It doesn't matter whether the tea party is like you or not. That's totally irrelevant.
We need to find common ground. We need to work together for mutual benefit. Stop trying to divide the 99%. Work to unite us.
In my mind, that common ground is Campaign Finance Reform, possibly Term Limits too. Get corporate money out of the American government!
lol.
Thank God they are not!!! When we started to become well known the tea party an the right have tried to take over the movment.
yes they are and if they aren't then stop saying you are the 99%
The members of the Tea Party who share the OWS movement's sentiments should certainly join it, but those that have been hopelessly co-opted by right-wing corporate, christofascist nutjobs need to spend some time thinking about their beliefs.
and ows has been co opted by stephen lerner and soros i mean there apeople on both sides that want the same thing and we need to join to really call ourselves the 99%
The OWS has not been co-opted, at least yet. Do you have any proof that it has been? How has the OWS message been distorted from its original intent? I haven't seen any proof that it has.
stephen lerner started ows moveon,org trying to co opt it right now do you know who funds moveon. org the one and only george soros a 1%er
Those at my Occupation are voting today to prevent all political ties with any group, so they're at least not co-opting us.
hell yea make sure it stays that way
Yep, that's what we're trying.
Aw..... you poor little movement fizzling out. to bad ;(
lol not in the slightest bit.
Don't think so. I don't think anti-movement types such as yourself would be here it it was ;)
what does that even mean?
Oh sorry, I guess you were talking about the TP? If so sorry I misunderstood.
its not fizzling out you say you are the 99% of the people and you dont ows is maybe 4 percent of the population
I think you were trying to say that the 99% do not actually statistically represent 99% of the population. This is true, however you're missing the point. We represent the 99% in that all of the 99% have a voice in us should they choose it. The rhetoric is meant to be an inclusive message about who we stand for, not a head count of how is in the street.
this group doesn't represent my views they don't seem to accepting of them nor does ows seem accepting of the tea party and therefore doesn't represent the 99%
You're not discontent with the amount of corporate influence over our American government and it's representatives? So far as I can see, that's the only view represented by all of OWS, anything else is just one person speaking up. There's a reason this movement doesn't have leaders. Lead yourself and make yourself heard instead of following.
im discontent with our government as is the tea party that is my view that is why im here and part of this protest but i have heard from at least 20 to 30 other people on this forum that they will not stand with the tea party, the party is part of the 99% of America that you talk about and you are are against the top 1% of wealth in America the majority of whom don't buy off politicians yes there is a group of super rich that does buy of politicians like George Soros(just to name 1) but the people that will suffer from this movement have done anything to you. to qualify in as the top 1% of wealth you need only to make over $380,000 a year, so if i made 400,000 dollars a year and paid all of my taxes which are pretty high i'm not left with much so to add new taxes would make it even less so i'm suffering because people like you want handouts, thats not right...if you just took away most of the power of the federal government than it wouldn't matter if corporations bought politicians, the politicians wouldn't have the power to do anything. You want the 1% to give more money to the government its quite hypocritical
Then you've spoken to 20 or 30 people who told you their personal opinions, not the consensus of the group. Whoever else you've spoken to, you've spoken to me, and I've been actively sticking up for the Tea Party on this site (even though I disagree with what many Tea Partiers say). I think inclusion is important.
With regards to how much to make and the the 99% and 1% rhetoric... I think you are taking that stuff a little too literally. The point of all this isn't about who exactly falls into what percentile. There is nothing wrong with being rich. The problem is that there has been a steadily growing divide, i.e. the rich are progressively getting richer and richer while everyone else is getting poorer. The trend has been on going for decades and the middle class are slowly being eroded. The straw that broke the camel's back is the insane housing bubble that's popped and shafted the entire world economy because of the business decisions of the top 1%. While CEOs enjoy million dollar bonuses, we enjoy unemployment over 20% (and yes, unemployment is over 20%, the numbers released in the news only count those who have been unemployed for less than a year, do your research.) We lose out houses. And what does our government do for letting them trash our (and the entire world's) economy? They issue interest free bailouts with tax payer money. Maybe we have different ideas about what to do about this, but I fail to see how anyone can see this situation as acceptable. THAT is what this protest is about.
FURTHERMORE, our government hasn't done anywhere near enough. They're too busy butting heads with each other in a monumental pissing contest over whether red or blue is the better color. All the while, both sides pocket corporate donations for the upcoming election and vote on lobbyist drafted legislation. THAT's what this protest is about.
Please quote where I said I wanted to increase taxes on anyone or wanted an handout. I've said the exact opposite: I don't want a handout. If you want proof, I'm a full-time single parent who qualifies for all sorts of government aid. I'm not on any of it because i can provide for myself and my son by living within my means.
In my opinion, something everyone (Tea Partiers and leftists alike) can get behind is campaign finance reform. Together, lets stop the corporate influence over our government. Once we do that, then we can argue about where to go from there. Until we can that done, our representatives and by extension we, their constituents, are serving corporate interests.
But they do support political candidates. They have Tea Party Republican Debates. The problem with the group, aside from ideas that differ from my own (and it is possible to overcome that if you arent intransigent), is that they have sold themselves to the right wing agenda that to a certain extent, has motivated this country for the last 30 years, to its detriment.
so the liberal media slanders the tea party wow, they really want similar things to want ows seems to want
Just because the comments are against the Tea Party, it doesn't follow that they are derived from the liberal media. It could be that this person just reads a lot of different sources that help arrive at the same conclusion.
At its most basic level, these are two very different movements, that have some "venn diagram" similarities. I just don't how you can get past these differences. I hope it can happen, but the Tea Party today--including this website--is all about the republican party.
BIG TIME.
Why does our system of government (and politics in general) need to have party affiliations in the first place? It does nothing more than group individuals into a perceived way of thinking and create stereotypes. Is there not "Liberal" solutions to certain issues as well as "conservative" solutions to others? I am so sick of bickering back and forth in Washington and disagreements based solely on party affiliation. People need to think for themselves.
Couldn't agree more. As an "old guy" it's still strange for me to hear people classifying themselves strictly as "Liberals/Democrats" or "Conservatives/Republicans." Most younger folks probably don't appreciate that's a relatively recent phenomena. Not sure when that change happened, but it wasn't always like that. Sure to some extent, but not nearly to the degree that exists today among the general population. Things weren't viewed in nearly as black/white terms, and there was a lot more recognition that most things in this world involve a whole lot of gray areas. Not a good thing to my mind since it seriously limits our ability to come up with truly effective approaches to real problems that we need to deal with as a society and we end up just going around and around in the ridiculous us -vs- them BS.
But I suppose that assigning easy labels so people don't have to actually think through things to any level of depth or deal with inconsistencies that might exist in their beliefs between various complex issues is easier for most. And that's just gotten worse as people tend to segregate themselves into worlds which reflect only views similar to theirs. To think that you'd have "news" organizations like MSNBC and Fox with distinct points of view to the degree that is the case these days would have been seen as kinda bizarre. Again, not a good thing to my mind, particularly since I'm not sure which is leading which more now - people driving the programming, or the programming driving what people believe they're supposed to think.
Personallly, I'll stick with my same old shades of gray approach and assess issues on their own merits independent of any particular mind-frame that I must adhere to in order to be a good liberal/dem/conservative/repub. Trying to pigeonhole me given my views on various major issues would leave somebody awfully confused. lol Probably the same for most people too if they'd lose the labels and actually put some thought into it. That's hard for most to do though and many might not like to be where they'd end up. My wife for example as an old hippie clearly classifies herself as a hard-core bleeding heart liberal, but if you pin her down on specific issues and scratch a little beyond the surface, on most things she's really probably closer now to Pat Buchannan. ; )
Yes each problem has its own solution. One size fits all does not work. Quick fixes and calls for the government to do everything or do nothing is killing us. We all need to work hard to insure good governance.
Screw the tea party
why? are they not part of the 99% are they not part of the people suffering?
All they are is a far right wing of the republican party controlled by wall st and the rich.
thats not true, they are as much a part of this country as you, are they not? they want to see corporations not interfering with government they dont want to rule their life but you seem to want rule theirs.
Boy I bet the Koch brothers an the fat cats love you.
i bet stephen lerner and george soros love you
I am in good company asshole!
ha just wait your being taken advantage of its sad i dont want to see this movement turn into something controlled by crazy socialist naziyouths like them
I have been on a lot of Tea Party websites, and they actually posted a lot of my comments, which I was surprised about. I agree that we agree on many of the problems, if not all of the solutions. This is one reason why the General Assembly agreed not to put out demands before OWS began. We wanted to have Tea Party members involved, and some did show up, and there are still Ron Paul supporters on the ground at Liberty Plaza. Everyone knows that the nexus between corporations and their politicians is destroying the world. If we could find solutions that the the Tea Party and the left could agree on we would be unstoppable.
The real middle of America is not halfway between the Repocrats and the Demublicans. We need to find the real middle.
I agree. The people of America have been soooo divided for a long, long time. And that divide is encouraged and widened every day by the news media.
If this could become a movement where we unite behind the things we have in common, it would indeed be unstoppable and some good may finally come of it
Just because victims exhibit the Stockholm effect doesn't mean they aren't victims. Many of the TEA party were complaining about the same things, then they got hijacked and fed distorted analyses and pseudo-solutions. Some bought it, some just got disillusioned and went quiet again. It isn't the first time that people acted against their own interests. They are part of the 99% and will benefit from real solutions and probably will realize it, at some point. Their numbers are more important than their garbled articulation of the solution as they see them. In frustration, we all let our emotions color our rhetoric.
agreed see my post further down
You have the facts. The organizers are on a payroll. Can't get them. Don't need them. The rank and file can be or appear to be with us e.g. posting and in dialog on our boards.
Who knows. Some of them may really get it and change. I voted for Goldwater once.
This is a very good point. The faux center is where the real corruption is today. See beyond red and blue by pew institute. For more.
The only problem with the tea party is that some of the most influential tea party organizations are funded by billionaires like the Koch brothers, and given unlimited airtime and support by FOX and Murdoch. For example the first big tea party rally last year was publicized for days by Glen Beck, then Fox bussed everybody in, and the stage, lights and sound system was paid for by Fox, and the event, with Glenn Beck as the host, was covered for days by Fox (so the other networks felt they had to cover it too.) The same thing for Glenn Beck's "Return to Truthiness" rally (sorry a little sarcasm there-truthiness means having the qualities of being like the truth, doesn't it?) Anyway this is not representative of all of the tea parties or their members, but it is probably the ones that manage to get people elected.
I Agree 100%
Tea party folks are conned into supporting the very rich in key ways. The question is how do we expose the con in ways those folks can relate to.
Agreed. One thing is go to smaller issues. Was it ok for motgage companies to use illegal tactics to foreclose homes? We say no and I bet they do too but the question is can they get out of the political shell enough to tell Michelle Bachman what these banks did was NOT OK.
That is the kind of thing a good poll might spot. One question is just what language do you use to talk to religious conservatives on these issues.
It depends. there are those in the religious right, especially Catholics, who understand about doing good things for your fellow man. But there are those that have what I call a hard assed Christianity where the poor are lazy, the rich are successful and anyone who is in a bad way just did it to themselves. I think with some religious people, language like Roosevelt used....what I mean is he didnt deny his faith and he sort of used that to help people understand why social welfare was in everyone's interest.....that language would work with some religious conservatives. The other thing is that they need to understand this is not a movement based on religion but it sure does not have anything bad to say about religion. Nevertheless, there will be some who wont come along no matter what.
Huey long got those folks to support asset. Taxation. Their alliance. ewithcs economic royalists is newer.
Yes, now Huey sure did. On the other hand, those were mainly rural voters. We dont have as many as we used to.
Their kids now vote gop-but it is an uneasy arrangement See beyond red and blue from pew institute.
As I read it, They blame it on the consumer and want fewer consumer protections.
your absolutely right but we can compromise we need to have a huge meeting and start discussing a solution or even 1 goal between The tea party and the left and we could get done very easily and after that we'll be seen as a threat the power will be in the peoples hands
There should definitely be dialogue between the Occupy movement and the tea party movement. I think most people in the tea party understand that Social Security needs to be strengthened without being privatized. So there must be some understanding there that the government can do good things. The real question is whether real people can influence government policies anymore or does huge global corporate cash trump real democracy.
Maybe we can unite long enough to get corporations out of the government and then we the People can go back to arguing over what the government should actually do? :)
yes i cant speak for anyone but myself but i certainly want them out of government and half of government out of government haha but we need to support from everywhere
Yes I estimate we need a minimum of 5% of the US, or about 13 million people on the street to get the corporations out of the government. I personally think we need a constitutional Amendment that defines corporations as non-persons and bans lobbying by non-persons.
yes i agree have you heard of gary johnson...hes running for gop nomination hes pying for his campaign alone noone really knows him you should check him out i mean i dont know if i trust any politician but this guys seems like a real person
I agree. I have never supported a politicain in my life. It's always been a choice of who is the lesser evil. I found Gary Johnson when reading over a list of all the current candidates and there stances on multiple issues. Gary Johnson is the first presidential candidate I can say I agree with. He could truly lead this government to fix many of the issues protesters in both camps have.
'liberal media' - a term coined by Fox news to help create the world's most biased network and brain wash it's viewers to believe the whole rest of the world is a conspiracy and only Fox is truth. I can see how it's believable to a religious whack-job.
I did. When it started. When the Tea Party brought in Palin and Fox Spews began it "all hail the Tea Party" coverage, This INDEPENDENT saw who hijacked that idea and had enough.
yes but the people involved are part of the 99%
The original people that started this revamped version, yes, they should be there as well.
I've been to one Tea Party rally and one Tea Party meeting. The rally was a few years ago and the meeting was a few days ago.
what did you think of it?
The rally was quite fun, a few people acting kooky but no more kooky than some people act at any large rally. The oddest moment was watching little old ladies dance to the rap group on the capitol steps. A bit socially conservative for my tastes (in side chatter) but the organizational message was more accountability and less taxes especially when times are hard for the people paying them.
The meeting was a little less well organized but proceeded well enough and there was a round robin reading of the Constitution (though I wish they went into discussing what it meant - afterwards they explained the usually have an American history professor there going over it as well). They had some local elected officials talked about how people can get involved in party politics (the only people who came were R's though D's were invited to speak).
I think they need some help with effective communication and electioneering strategies but all in all very good if a bit skewed towards the older crowd.
Lower taxes for the 1% and lower services for the rest of us has been the actual outcome of their movement. Sad.
Correct......that is where I have a problem with it.....I wonder if they know they got co-opted?
I can't say that the movement has produced anything other than a few election wins. They've been a pain to the establishment of both parties so I suppose they have also gained an amusement factor.
I would rather have a national sales tax than our thousands of pages of code that changes yearly and requires accounting firms to process which is already filled with loopholes and systems that allow some to pay no taxes, others to get raped, and others still to get refunds in excess of the amount they paid.
Sales taxes hit the lower incomes hardest, because all their money goes for necessities. The better off you are, the more choices you have to buy or not. Instead of buying and paying sales tax, they can invest - and then pay lower taxes on capital gains than you pay on your wages. Talk about rigged!
The flat tax usually comes with a prebate equal to a the amount a person with a certain income can be expected to spend. Such as a 10% flat sales tax and a limit of 24,000 income everyone would get a 2,400 check at the beginning of the year to cover their expenses. This way even if someone making 24k a year spent all their money they wouldn't have any tax burden.
A tax on assets above 5 million would be far better than a flat tax. A flat tax is a middle weighted tax.
That punishes people not only for being successful now but for having been successful. No way no thank you. A flat sales tax would have a higher burden the more one spent - if the rich choose to live lavishly they would pay a corresponding higher percentage of tax. It also has less negative impacts on the economy because the incidence of taxation always falls on the one charged for payment.
You underestimate trickle up effects. Property rises in value because of what happens in a larger community. A Gould asset tax would halt concentration of wealth but would not confiscate assets. Why should the rich keep profits they got by buying politicians?
I dont like the moniker "successful" because it may be no more true than calling a poor man "lazy".
In a system where influence doesn't by special treatment in the market (which is something we don't have) money is only received for doing work others value.
This is not true for large scale wealth or property in land.
I see a statement with no evidence.
Read Henry george Progress and poverty
Read the work of ed Wolff at nyu and Elizabeth Warren at Harvard
If you've read them surely you can summarize the argument and some of the evidence in favor of this?
Here is a little bit of Ed Wolff's work to chew on:
www.levyinstitute.org/pubs/wp_589.pdf
www.levyinstitute.org/pubs/wp_502.pdf
The big key: why do big investors get such better returns than small investors? That is often regarded by economists as evidence of monopolistic tendencies-or unearned income.
I will be happy to when I am on a PC and not my Droid phone. In the meantime check Wikipedia.
Agreed.
well i'm glad you enjoyed it ive only been to 1 rally and a couple of meetings but i find it crosses over with ows and the tea party is much more organized but if the 2 became 1 we could actually do something
I agree. The simple fact that the establishment media and those in the major parties would have no ability to spin it would be worth it alone.
There were some anarchists protesting the rally I went to so I went over and talked to them. Typical college kids. One was proud of the fact that she was wearing clothes she stole and another shyly admitted her mom still buys all her clothes. They wanted to get rid of corporate influence in the government as much as the Tea Party but the adamantly refused to admit they had anything in common.
The divide and conquer is working very well to defeat the people.
its really sad... i'm pretty far to the right but id be proud to stand next to my fellow American and defend them as well as the other 99%
I would be more supportive of the tea party as a group if they didn't, for example, endorse the Conservative Political Action Conference who has endorsed candidates such as Bush that eagerly back Wall Street. I would also take their small government views more seriously if they didn't sidle up to candidates such as Sarah Palin who has a history of paying lip service to individual rights but favoring intrusive government and even property seizure when she wants it.
In my experience the statements of what the Tea Party stands for, like the R and D platforms differ widely from their actions.
do you watch fox news? or do you watch liberal news stations that like fox news skews falsehoods about the other-side respectively, do you feel that ows has been portrayed correctly in the media?
Sigh. No and No. And No. None of which is inconsistent with the comments that I made above. On the page you cite is a specific recommendation to use CPAC as a source for candidates. CPAC has as I said endorsed candidates who do not, in my opinion, act for individual liberties or many of the individual rights that the tea party rightly endorses.
As for my comments regarding Sarah Palin take a look at her history in Wasilla Alaska. When she wanted to have a hockey rink she invoked Eminent Domain and seized private property for the rink rather than paying for it. That is not support for individual liberties.
I do not base my opinions on "The liberal media" any more than I base them on Fox News. I base them based upon the comments I saw at the site you cited and on what Palin has done.
fair enough have fun with marxism
Why? Why do you assume that not supporting a specific organization's actions while actually agreeing with the general principles they articulate means Marxism?
If anything the land seizures and an expansive government are more aligned with Marxism than an opposition to government bailouts of failing companies and propping up of wall street.
im opposed to gov bailouts of failing companies when did the tea party support that and they dont support propping up wall street
Yes, they have opposed that and that is largely what OWS is also opposing which is why I wondered at your comment about marxism. My point of the bailout and propping up Wall Street was not an assertion that the tea party supports it.
Good points regarding the Tea Party. OWS should join forces with the Tea Party, and drop this silly leaderless movement garble. Who really believes that any movement is leaderless?