Forum Post: be wary, the trolls are many
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 9, 2011, 11:23 p.m. EST by steve005
(256)
from Cincinnati, OH
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Anyone who tries to say anyone else is wrong without clear logic or evidence, they are most likely a troll. If they write a lot and use big words, they are a troll. This stuff isn't rocket science people, they print money on PAPER. They control the value, which gives them the power, power corrupts. They will use every trick in the book, here is the book; "alinsky rules for radicals" if anyone uses personal attacks or tries to paint someone as being part of some "bad" group; they are a troll.
All you can do is respond back or ignore. You really do not know if someone is a troll, you have to take people that do not agree with you at face value, there is no other choice.
just saying so people know who to ignore when reading through these threads
Who do you think I should ignore? Maybe I will try something different, and trust my own judgement.
who should you ignore? read the post, and yea trusting your own judgment is best, but only when you are informed, I'm just trying to inform you
You are trying to inform me with YOUR opinion. I have my own opinion, thankyouverymuch. Your post suggests that I am not informed because I may not have your view. That is fine, but lets keep fighting to have our views heard by those that are supposed to serve us. I know that this is not a movement with a unified plan, we just have a unified view of what government should be. Let no one think their ideas are best. :)
You are right, I agree
by big words I meant confusion; it's not hard to be cleasr and to the point, when you know what our talking about
Ya'll need to get off of my bridge, I am trying to get some sleep here.
I wish I could edit the part where I said anyone using big words are trolls, thats clearly not true, or what I really meant
live and learn, let it go.
Hmm, this thread sounds like a troll to me.
why?
cites saul alinsky
ergo, glenn beck troll
why if it sites saul alinsky? obama was an expert at those methods, so are the trolls and the protest leaders, thats why we all must learn them in order to overcome them
yeah there you go again
you will never win, glenn beck
ok from that argument, based of what I stated above, you are a troll, you have labeled me glen beck, someone I never watched, so how is that being productive?
sean hannity is that you?
ha ha, so tell me, why would a troll be tellling everyone of the tactics he is using?
hide in plain sight
it worked for obama
hope and change is the greatest troll of all time
the NAZI's used bread, jobs and freedom
Godwin's Law
/thread
german discrimination
i wish we would join the EU, just so we could get a bailout from the germans
if greece can do it, why cant we
we haven't earned it
oh i forgot about one little thing
us saving the day in world war 2 and germans committing the holocaust
i think they still owe us
we never paid the germany copyright kickbacks on the printing press
perhaps, but the germans did kill a lot of jews
I saw the photographs of the death pits
i only saw movies and read that anne frank book.
funny talking about germany and greece. i just returned from greece a few days ago. did you know that the germans still owe the greeks war reparations? greeks are so pissed about austerity and bailouts that they burn german cars. if anything, i feel a little bit of gratitude to the germans, since for once, i no longer feel as hated as i have in the past while travelling abroad.
I crossed the united states on bicycle from CA to DC people are friendly across the continent
oh rly, that is badass, bro
greece didn't earn it either
unless you count gyros, then perhaps they did
what about all that philosophy earlier ?
good point
but a lot of them were pedophiles
i am not sure how that evens out
I don't git it. How big is big wrds.
sorry I didn't mean to say it like that
You post as ThinMan, two syllables = one big word.
You caught that I didn't use more than one syllable per wrd. My work is don't here.
You say you'll change the constitution Well, you know We all want to change your head You tell me it's the institution Well, you know You better free you mind instead But if you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow Don't you know it's gonna be all right
"Anyone who tries to say anyone else is wrong without clear logic or evidence, they are most likely a troll. If they write a lot and use big words, they are a troll."
--- I would like to see the clear logic and evidence you used to come to this conclusion.
"if anyone uses personal attacks or tries to paint someone as being part of some "bad" group; they are a troll."
--- You do realize that you are painting someone with that same broad brush you are demonizing right? I mean, "trolls" are a "bad group" right?
Just sayin'.
Look, I really don't like ad hominem attacks because it really doesn't contribute to constructive dialogue between anybody, but really? Did you really need to resort to hypocrisy in trying to define those mean people who happen to not agree with whatever it is you are espousing?
I didnt' say people who mearly disagree. I'm not attacking anyone, just saying so people know who to ignore when reading through these threads
By suggesting that any voice of dissent should be ignored, you may as well just work to get their accounts banned. It's all the same thing. Just because you simply do not like (or understand) what they are saying, you would rather ignore them instead of either a) learning from them, or b) teaching them and maybe swaying an opinion to your side. That's not how effective debate and persuasion happen. You'd be amazed at how many "trolls" you can sway if you are willing to engage in real civil discourse with them, by acknowledging their view, breaking down their view to the simplest parts, and debating with them...
no you aren't getting it, I'm not trying to get people to ignore ideas, only certian behavior patterns that are non-productive
Every system is corrupt. Without the financial system none of you could use Facebook, go to starbucks, or blog about how pissed off you are over your Mac Books/ iPads.
oh really? that is a pretty big assumption, facebook might be better; starbucks might be something/s better, blogs might be better and ipods
Ok stevie well then answer this...do you think steve jobs or zuckerberg had the millions of dollars necessary to start their respective companies? No, it was rich people allocating their money to people with good ideas who could not have produced ANYTHING otherwise. That is how finance works and that is why we have a financial system.
The fact that you think those companies could have existed without the financial system speaks to your ignorance and is the reason why this movement is not being taken seriously.
If I am wrong please explain how the adopted son of blue collar parents was able to fund Apple, the worlds most valuable company.
so ideas wont be able to happen unless someone is willing to profit of it? that what your saying, who profited off the wheel? who got rich off inventing the gun? no one, because a idea whose time has come, can't be stopped by standing armies
Wow you really have no clue about the way things work.
Yes thats exactly what I'm saying. And don't go off and say "who got rich off inventing the wheel" because in all likelihood, the caveman that invented the wheel was in all likelihood given special privileges within his own community either by increasing his own productivity, or by allowing others to do so.
So let me give you an* example (a idea^^^ is not proper grammar)
Steve jobs thinks to himself, "hey i have all these great ideas, but theres no way i have the money to hire all the people I need, and there is no way i can afford to buy all the supplies that i need"
He thinks to himself, "Hey, I bet a bank or a wealthy investor will give me some money if I can prove that I'll eventually give it back."
Bankers say "fine, we believe you but (for reasons you will not understand based on your obvious lack of financial knowledge) you have to give us the original money back, plus some more."
Steve jobs thinks to himself, "well, Ill be able to make ten times that anyway, and i can't possibly do it without their money, so its a deal"
And thus..we not have iPods and awesome computers.
So no, this, the MASS PRODUCTION of the wheel, nor the MASS PRODUCTION of the firearm would not happen without investment. I'm not saying that they would never be invented, but the reason you and I have these nice things is because of investment. So accept that FACT, and if you truly want to protest, give up everything you have ever purchased in a store and then I will start taking you seriously.
"given special privileges within his own community either by increasing his own productivity, or by allowing others to do so."
you said it. that is how it would work today too.
Thats how it does work today...if you have a problem with it then get off your iPad and stop being such a hypocrite
Please tell me what to think I do not want to be called a troll. Right?
look we need to be united not arguing. you get the point of the thread right??
What are you going to unite around? What is the goal of the movement? How will you know when you have achieved success? Why aren't you taking care of the property that you occupy?
You can't say "unite" and at the same time try to censor peoples opinions.
I'm not trying to censor anyone. just putting info out there that I think people should know
But you either couldn't or haven't yet answered my questions?
ending slavery. look it up, we are now cheaper slaves then ever! avereging about $80, because they no longer have to feed clothe or house their slaves
WTF? I'm not a slave. What are you talking about? How are you a slave? Can't you answer a fucking question? How old are you? You sound like one of my kids! I ask em a questions they answer with something else. WTF?
I did answer, in two words
i write a lot and use big words. i am not a troll. don't make yourself anti intellectual over the trolling.
we do have a serious troll problem. http://occupywallst.org/forum/thetruth-socialismcapitalismcommunismmarxism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-versus-corporatism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/help-me-understand/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-a-love-story/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/sociology/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/energy-101-solution/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ethics/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/break-your-left-right-conditioning/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/nader-kucinich-and-paul/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/5-facts-you-should-know-about-the-wealthiest-one-p/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/i-am-homeless-joe-jp-morgan-chase-accidentally-for/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/can-we-end-the-fed/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-end-the-federal-reserve-and-what-do-you-replac/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/teaching-the-occupation/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-forum-needs-structure/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-not-your-personal-billboard-for-your-politi/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/systems-theory-primer/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/organize-inform-take-action-effect-change/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/better-website-needed/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-playing-the-devils-games/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/nonviolence-the-only-path/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-not-against-capitalism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-is-not-about-political-stripe-it-is-about-bas/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/national-initiative-for-democracy/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-third-political-party-the-movement-of-the-middle/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/300-fema-camps/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-a-false-flag-operation/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-this-will-not-work/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/paradigm-shift-now/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-proposal-for-focus/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-the-bullshit-posts-and-get-organized/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/no-war/
haha, I think ol' Steve just trolled the shit out of all of you.
ahaha, how is that by giving them tips to think clearly and not groupthink like you trolls what us to do
Clear logic and evidence is important and I would encourage anyone to demand it. But many people who do not present clear logic and evidence for their position aren't trolls, they're just sloppy thinkers. I am troubled by your statement that anyone who writes a lot and uses 'big words' is a troll; you only trust people who don't say too much and have a limited vocabulary? That doesn't sound very logical to me.
read the thread I didn't mean it just like that ok
I don't think there are many trolls. The 1% probably have better things to do, and if they don't, they should only account for 1% of the posts, so that should not be a problem - unless they spam us like they did last week.
unless they use their trillions to pay people, thats what trolls are, people who get paid to divide or whatever
Exactly!
we can't say for sure, but if what you say is true - that the 99% can be bought, well that's a problem. So the equation is really; total people = 1% rich + (99% - x), where x = the percent of sellouts.
no thats too confusing, do you have a simpler way of putting it?
Yeah, if there's even one "troll" who is legitimately not in the 1% (by the definition OWS has given), then they can't possibly be in the 99% either now can they? Therefore, Total (n) = 1% Rich (r) + (99% - x%) where x% are those "trolls" who are not in the 1%. It's simple math really...
no I mean without math, you are still being way too confusing
OK
Total = 100 OWS = 99 (so they claim) Enemy = 1
Under normal circumstances, OWS+Enemy would = 100 right?
Well, trolls obviously do not support the OWS right? I mean, they're just trolls paid bazillions by the Koch brothers right? As such, wouldn't it make sense to exclude them from the 99? Therefore, the OWS does not account for the 99 - but rather less by a factor of the number of "trolls" who are out there but are not in that 1% you call the enemy (in other words, not the uber rich).
Let's say, there are 4 trolls that are not in the 1%. Those 4 trolls have to be account for in order to get to 100.
OWS = 95 Trolls = 4 Enemy = 1 Total = 100
It's really not confusing. jdog is really just interpreting what you said to demonstrate a falacy in the "99" OWS movement.
" If they write a lot and use big words, they are a troll. "
I lol'ed
They distract. That's their purpose. If you respond they win. If you ignore the post it dies the quick death it deserves.
Money out of all campaigns. No need for big words or personal attacks. Together we stand.
that wont work by itself
I'm with ya, Steve. There's a fine line between constructive criticism, and divisive rhetoric. Some seem to use this forum as a vehicle for polarizing us. Keeping us fighting amongst ourselves.
True.
How big are the words I shouldn't use? How much writing is "a lot?" I'm concerned because from my point of view, I write a lot (though it's probably actually not a lot for a forum like this). But some of my posts are 5 paragraphs are more. My spelling, punctuation and capitalization are usually impeccable too (is "impeccable" a "big word?") and my grammar is usually fairly good too (though I'm a computer programmer, not a writer).
I agree with the part about personal attacks (unless you're attacking somebody who attacked first in which case I consider turn-about fair play and beating up the bully perfectly acceptable) and stereotyping trolls though.
confusion is a tactic, they try to say "oh you wouldn't understand it anyway" well if you can't explain it in terms that we can understand it then maybe you don't understand it yourself
I appreciate that you like short and simple words to convey a common message. I personally like to hear from my fellow man/woman what they think about things. I often feel clearer, not more confused, when I see someones fully articulated views in writing and if they need big words to convey it I'm okay with that.
Yes! That's the right answer! :)
I didn't say a anyone with a contrasting view is a troll
Using big words and writing a lot... that might be the mark of true understanding in terms of an issue.
People, don't be scared of individuals who happen to have different ideologies than the ones you have adopted. You actually might learn something new.
It is very easy to label someone who offers contrasting views as a troll.
"true understanding in terms of an issue" when you truely understand it you should be able to simplyfy it to a degree where everyone will understand it. if you cant then you most likely don't understand yourself
I question if you actually understand... your words are riddled with spelling errors. (this probably makes me a troll, because resorting to 'personal attacks') If you read my comments... think about them for a second... you will walk away with a new understanding. I can only hope my words are understood-I wont lower my intelligence to Ebonics or an entirely different language
use of other languages is a sign of intelligence
shoot you're right. I need to tone down my rhetoric..
uh huh
so I had some typos wow. does that make my ideas wrong?
not at all. In terms of our current conversation... you are asking me to tone down my ideas, because they are too wordy and show signs of intellect. I will not 'dumb' down my vocabulary, nor should you expect me to.
no not really, all I was saying is that what is going on right now isn't brain surgery, and it doesn't require certain arguments that some are trying to use, in conjuction with using big words, that often are made up, like plutocracy
Plutocracy isn't made up.
why because they made a wiki for it?
Plus it's in my physical, $100 Webster's New Universal Unabridged Dictionary, Deluxe Second Edition published in 1983 (I think since that's the latest copyright mentioned in it).
who cares,
Obviously you do otherwise you wouldn't have responded. Do you feel insulted because you were so blatantly proved wrong? Sorry about that. But I have confidence that you can learn to keep up with the big boys on the internet.
no i dont even know what your talking about. I was half joking
Umm, actually, I was thinking more along the lines of dictionary.com and thefreedictionary.com and webster.com but it's a word that I first heard at least 30 years ago and, according to webster, was first used in 1652.
you get my drift, its a word no ones heard of
This is the internet. They can google/wiki it. Ignorance is no excuse on the internet.
ok but the whole point I was making was confusion, not just using big words, sorry about that
I'm sorry also. I tend to get too bogged down in details and technicalities. What can I say? I'm a computer programmer! :)
you are right. It isn't brain surgery. People are pissed. People want things in life. People see that others have things that they want. People feel entitled to those things. People honestly feel that they rightfully should have things without earning them. It is simple. People don't want to work hard for thing anymore. People want to blame others for their bad choices. It is always easy to point a finger at someone else.
What we have here is a tragedy. An utter tragedy. What happened to motivation and ambition? Why can't people realize that you earn things through hard work? Why have people given up? Empower yourselves! Go out there, and grab life by the horns.
you are wrong, you have misinterperted the movement, we want our freedom back!
freedom from what? I can offer you freedom from entitlements... it's called motivation, and work ethic. Get off your ass, get a worthwhile degree... and start making money. That's what this country is all about
freedom back, our freedom is gone, freedom to live, to earn, to be happy etc
You are currently living, you are alive. Welcome to the real World. You are expecting the freedom to live off of others. You earn to the right to 'earn'. Happiness can be found in many forms... I tend to find my happiness through hard work and results.
no I'm not. you are assuming that.
well, I'm sorry to draw conclusions. What do you really want?
freedom to keep what I earn by saving(not dwindling dollar value, cause the hidden inflation tax on the whole middle class, wages will always rise slower that inflation, think about that for a few minutes, its all caused by not having a sound money.
freedom to keep what I earn(income tax is not freedom) freedom to live on my land off my land(property tax is another form of rent, how can I own something if I must go out and work just to keep it, even if my great grandfather paid for it hundred years ago). freedom to have my votes counted, freedom to have fair media coverage, freedom to eat healthy without having to spend MORE. freedom to fail. freedom to be equal because your a person not a black, white, jew, gay, etc etc
I hope they get this Steve005. Alot of trolls do not realize that they are in new millenium Serfdom or as I call it Serfdom 2001!
No you read it wrong
who has time to read with so many topics
so you argue with posts without even reading them? thats a really smart move
I do try to avoid using the word you if I can
rarely
The best way to fight against a troll is to simply use your words in a clear, passionate, and detailed argument. You might come to an agreement or not. But you in the end extingushed the flame. ( Usually)
The best action against trolls is to ignore them. A troll thrives on getting a reaction. If everyone continues like they do not exist, they go away. Responding to a troll is called "Feeding a troll." Rule #14 of the internet say that arguing with a troll means that they win. Just ignore, ignore, ignore. Someone's opinion may be different than yours. Just need to accept that sometimes.