Forum Post: The Democrats Need to control This
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 10, 2011, 3:16 p.m. EST by truthhurts
(33)
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We can't have the far lefties doing this. We need them to be part of the Democat family so we can control them. We Dems control the Unions and the Civil Rights people and the Gays, Lesbians. How could us Democrats possibly let this one get out from under our umbrella? You will see Dem politicians now come in from all sides to circle this up and get it under control. control. control. control.
You're clearly not a Democrat. But whatever, the Democrats will not control this. They are part of the problem.
this is exactly right.
Democrats and the republicans are in bed with wall st an the rich, they don't give a rats ass about the rest of us!
Agree. Repubs want to control the poor to be their workers and Dems want to control them to be their voting robots.
Stop this thinking and this back and forth arguing!
http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-cannot-become-the-lefts-version-of-the-tea-part/
I think your talk box got stuck on repeat at the end there! Give it a whack!
push congress to end bush tax cuts , rebuild America bridges and roads , invest in middle class not banking class thats the occupy wall street message
The Democrats, (of which I am one), have dropped the ball long ago. The last thing we need is for the party of compromise, (with the far right agenda), to co-opt what these smart young people have accomplished. The Democrats need to get in line, and wait their turn, and maybe they can get in the good graces of this movement again, if they are lucky. I am all for starting a new party, and jettisoning all the corporate-controlled hacks of both parties. http://sibob.org/wordpress/
instead of starting a new party, let's focus on getting run-off voting so third parties stand a chance.
Okay, it's a start.
If Dems were into control, there would be no OWS.
We aren't.
They were in control for years. Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Obama had a majority and control of everything. What did they do with it?? Vacations, jets, golf.
The Democrats have grabbed this by the horns and are riding it off a cliff. Y'all, and I say y'all because the basis has my support, not the left faction, need to weed out these lefties.
I mean honestly, go around to the people who first got this thing going and organize a day to not show. The only people out there will be a bunch of left wing lunes and unions and they will be exposed for their efforts.
so tired of the right left paradigm
Hear, hear!
So say we all.
damn straight
Both parties are bought
First off you're a troll and secondly we have to start somewhere and the more culpable of the two are Conservatives, we can not go this on our own. Democrats have a chance to change their ways and join Progressives. But we can't go blasting everyone and expect result
The term 'progressive' is used to spin away from people using the term 'liberal' which now has a negative connotation. I prefer to use the term liberal to describe the left, just suits me better.
they will try. they will fail.
they will get taken out as the trash. along with the republicans.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/thetruth-socialismcapitalismcommunismmarxism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-versus-corporatism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/help-me-understand/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-a-love-story/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/sociology/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/energy-101-solution/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ethics/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/break-your-left-right-conditioning/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/nader-kucinich-and-paul/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/5-facts-you-should-know-about-the-wealthiest-one-p/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/i-am-homeless-joe-jp-morgan-chase-accidentally-for/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/can-we-end-the-fed/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-end-the-federal-reserve-and-what-do-you-replac/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/teaching-the-occupation/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-forum-needs-structure/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-not-your-personal-billboard-for-your-politi/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/systems-theory-primer/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/organize-inform-take-action-effect-change/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/better-website-needed/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-playing-the-devils-games/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/nonviolence-the-only-path/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-not-against-capitalism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-is-not-about-political-stripe-it-is-about-bas/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/national-initiative-for-democracy/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-third-political-party-the-movement-of-the-middle/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/300-fema-camps/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-a-false-flag-operation/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-this-will-not-work/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/paradigm-shift-now/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-proposal-for-focus/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-the-bullshit-posts-and-get-organized/
Take a page (or whole chapter) from the Tea Party play book. They ended up controlling the Republican party (I am not passing judgement...just an observation)
Both the Repubs and the Dems have blown it with the OWS people. Good luck with the movement.
They are NOT controlling the Republicans. Quite the opposite. They were co-opted, plain and simple. I was originally part of the Tea Party until I realized that they morphed into being for Big Government, no thanks to the Koch brothers and others. When all the Tea Party newbies came in, they immediately got yanked up by the 'good ole boys' club and they dutifully voted to renew the Patriot Act. What traitors. I wish the original Tea Party were controlling the establishment, because if they were, we would have sound money from ending the private Fed, and the economy might not be collapsing in slow motion right now. And we would be pulling out of all 7 wars that we're in, because the true tea partiers wish to avoid 'foreign entanglements' and don't want us to police the whole world.
I live in the North East of the UK, and I'v been following your valid protest with great interest. I don't know if your aware of the fact that your protest get's hardly any publicity whatsoever on UK tv, and none in any press. I have seen only 2 very short clip's on TV, one showing the arrest's on the Brooklyn bridge, and a short interview with a protestor in N.Y. I'd like to know who is responsible for all this gagging, your leaders or ours? so much for democracy. Keep up the good work, and the sooner your movement can jump the pond to here the better.
My fingers are crossed for my friends across the pond. May Sean Hoare's death not be in vain and the corruption between the Press, your Prime Minister, and Scotland Yard yield you a bumper crop of reform.
Ha ha ha,. you give the dems way too much credit! They control blablabla,.
Wake up! the dems are just the moderate side of the Single Party System (corporate/militarty fascism) the republicans are the batsht far right fringe of the SAME party.
What are the demands of OWS? Are you wasting everybody's time??
FRANK DODD PELOSI REID WEINER
Theres your problem
And they support OWL? Really?
But OWS doesn't support them. Funny how that works, right?
Not funny.
The majority of Americans right now believe that OWL is part of the Dem machine.
They way to change that is to march on DC call out all the politicians
This Downtown thing is a waste
Control, Censor, Control,
The Dems think they control!
They think they own the unions
They think they own Civil rights
They they control Gays & Lesbians
Fuck the Democrats. Fuck the left!
You control nothing!
The left isn't part of the problem they are the problem!
Yes blame the left for everything, declining wages, a system where peoiple are expected to do more work for more hours for the same wages, where well qualified people, including veterans who have served our country can't find a job while our large corporations are sitting on $2 trillion in cash, where jobs are outsourced to foreign countries, so that the products can be shipped back here as imports. Yup blame the left, blame anyone except those at the top who control things, because certainly the corporate leaders and the bankers who deny credit to small businesses and who get huge bonuses aren't responsible for anything, are they?
Wake up they are the ones that control things. They control Hollywood, Media, The White House, The Senate, Wall St, they have everything.
We are being manipulated by them constantly. Wall St gave more money to Obama than any other candidate in history.
They even try to take ownership of this movement.
We are bombarded with people like Michael Moore who would have you believe that the right wing republicans control big business. It's just the opposite.
Look at the facts! Obama just hired the CEO of GE to be his Jobs Czar!
Are you fucking kidding me?
Soros is a Republican? I don't think so. He owns Progressive insurance. A company that not only ripps off the entire country, he get to be exempt from all of his cohorts in the insurance industry that are "exempt" by the left wing congress and Senate from all US Anti-Trade laws.
The left is the problem. It amazes me how many people think hey are a liberal but when you look at the facts, and what they believe in, they should never utter the word....Liberal
This is what is so crazy about using labels like "left" or liberal". it's what someone does that should render them worthy of support not their supposed label. You are right, GE made all that money and I, working as a bellman paid more in ACTUAL dollars than the entire GE corporation because of some loopholes created by both parties to benefit the fat cats. Manipulation is going on by the wealthy in this country, no matter what their supposed political beliefs.
NO NO NO. the labels matter!
Don't get me wrong. It's not like all republicans are good I'm not saying that at all. And I'm also not saying that all democrats are wrong.
What I am saying is look at the facts! Not the BS that comes out of the media, hollywood, etc
The left controls everything.
This movement should be all about changing Washington. You change that and big biz has to follow. You can't change big biz without Washington.
We have to get rid of Govt thinking it knows more than we do. Allow the country to go back true "Free Markets".
Less regulation less govt intrusion less govt No govt purchase or loans get out of green energy let the market dictate let big biz fail when they screw up.
Labels can blind however. I might be considered left, but I support these values: We believe in the virtues of work, of having a meaningful career that enable us to support our families and contribute to our communities. We also have the expectation that if we work hard and live by the rules, we will have the means by which we can maintain a reasonable standard of living, and provide for a comfortable retirement and help educate our next generation.
We believe it is the obligation of businesses, employers and government to be honest with people, and to treat them with respect, dignity and fairness.
We believe that every person has the expectation that they will be allowed to benefit from the fruits of their hard work, ingenuity and investment, but that with any success, there comes the obligation to treat those responsible for that success with fairness, dignity and respect and also allow others to so benefit from their own hard work, ingenuity and investment, whether such investment is in the form of labor or capital.
If you believe in that you are not on the left you are on the right.
And yet I support this movement, because I believe that until we address the abuses that have occurred in the system, these values cannot be avhieved by the average person.
Follow Herman Cain. He has it right.He knows whats wrong with the Fed.
He also knows that the movement should be in Washington protesting the left.
I've listened to him. Changing the President will do very little when the entire system is rife with corruption where the average citizen has a better chance of winning Powerball than getting their views respected. It's not the left, we should be protesting it should be ALL of them that allow their narrow partisan power plays that have everything to do with power to override the interests of the American people. That episode with the debt ceiling was a disgrace and made a mockery of everything.
I disagree. Cain is a true leader unlike Obama, more akin to Reagan/Kennedy.
But you are right we have to clean out the sewer of left wing nuts in the Senate.
My problem is how does the current system serve these values that I also support::
We believe that it is essential that every citizen, regardless of his or her economic status, have an equal voice in the governing of their communities, states and country, and with that the unfettered right to speak out, advocate, vote, and if desired, run for public office.
We already have these rights. Wouldn't it be interesting to see how many of the people that are occupying voted?
On average, only about 25% of the public votes in any given election. Most people do not vote. Our system works. Its the people that are not working the system. It can all be fixed!
I vote in every election, and in fact at one time was a member of the state legislature.
I would hope then that you would oppose efforts by some states to impose onerous Voter ID laws that will have the effect of suppressing voters.
Glad to hear that vote and served.
I do not believe that ID laws for voters would suppress voters at all. I have personally witnessed problems at the pols. Whats the problem with showing ID? Proving you are who you are? I have to do it when I get on a plane. Or when I go to the bank.
What kind of ID is required? What is being prevented. How many actual cases of voter fraud have been discovered and prosecuted out of the millions of votes cast each year. I learned as a legislator, when you enact something, there should be an actual problem being addressed. I think the problem here is that minorities or city residents who don't need drivers licenses are voting the wrong way and it should be made harder for them to vote. In fact in one state they didn't want a military ID to be valid to vote!
Military ID should be valid that's crazy. I live in the suburbs and have witnessed voter fraud. I know of two cases in my state for sure. I watched a group of people, around 20 enter a polling place, without being registered to vote and demanded to vote, and were allowed into the machines. That's outrageous. They were allowed because there wasn't enough police there to control the situation. I'm laughing at your comment about having an actual problem before enacting. That's all politicians do. Enact even though there is no issue! LOL
OK. I guess we don't agree on that. My point was that if someone doesn't have an ID that the law demand, they are denied the right to vote. Maybe, then if they don't have that ID they should also be exempt from all taxes then.
The current laws require we do have some form of ID. I don't think the govt should have the right not to recognize a form of ID that in fact it distributes.
Actually, I don't believe the law directly requires us to have a form if ID. Yes we're supposed to get a social security card, but it says right on it "Not valid for identification." I do agree that to become employed, you are required to prove citizenship or the right to work here as part of our immigration laws.
Your last sentence certainly is reasonable. The Libertarian part of me does not like the idea of requiring identity cards, too much like the Germans in WWII asking for "papers" lol
I think you are correct. But if I'm not mistaken if a police officer asks you for identification you are required to give it to them.
It depends on why you are being stopped. I think what is important is that every citizen should have the opportunity to participate. The even bigger problem is that money dominates the process. Even in Vermont, money is a factor. It's wrong whether the money to do so comes from the right or the left.We don;t have a House or a Senate anymore, we have a Millionaires' Club, and it shows in the fact that they do not serve our interests.
I also am sure that there are many people that you don;t agree with here. However a diversity of opinion is essential otherwise it begins to be a cocoon where everyone parrots each others' opinions and there is no independent thought or critical thinking. Also, that diversity of opinion will hopefully change minds and make for better decisions and positions.
democrats already control it... follow the green energy loan payoffs to the brookfield asset management of new york.
Krugman and Stiglitz know the way
Who wrote your copy for you? Karl Rove, or the Koch brothers?
RIGHT ON!!!
Why do liberals always namedrop Koch like it means anything? You look as crazy as when Glenn Beck rants about George Soros.
It's a start that you admit Glenn Beck rants. Anyway, George Soros is very open about where he puts his money, the Koch's are not, that is the difference.
HAHAHAHA, open. HAHAHA
oh geeze, that is a good one!
...Because I wouldn't have admitted that anyway? Whatever.
Bullshit.
When I look at my replies to you, I realize I was not being respectful. I apologize.I know you care about our country and want it to be a better place. I think we all do, even if we disagree on what that is. It is sometimes easy to forget that a diversity of opinion is essential otherwise it begins to be a cocoon where everyone parrots each others' opinions and there is no independent thought or critical thinking. Also, that diversity of opinion will hopefully change minds and make for better decisions and positions.
I should add that I don;t believe this movement should accept funding from either of them.
Hehe, no doubt, but OWS will inevitably get funding from Soros. It's simply the nature of the beast. It's not about OWS accepting funding, because most of them don't want help, but Soros funded operations like ThinkProgress have helped the movement along and will continue to for no other reason than they agree with it. :)
I remember that I subscribed to MoveOn, which was first formed as a protest to the Clinton impeachment, and the title said that we should "move on" to more important issues, instead of focusing on what Clinton did with Monica Lewinsky. I haven't been involved in it after that, once I saw it became involved in one side of the political battle in a system that isn't working for the vast majority of us.
It's natural for someone to support something they agree with it. I just don't want to see the money drive the direction of things.In the end we need to curtail the power of these shadow groups, whether left or right, that get funding from a few and don;t disclose who they are, and then purport to be grass roots organizations.
I guess if you believe that, you believe that.
I don't really like or hate either of them. I give them the benefit of the doubt that they're dedicated ideologues who happened to get rich and want to support causes they believe in. For the three of them, too, I'm almost positive that charitable philanthropy vastly outnumber their political donations.
By the way, I'm not sure if you knew this, but David Koch isn't necessarily your generic Republican/Tea Partier. He supports gay marriage, legalization of marijuana, and was against the Iraq War and Patriot Act. He even donated to ACLU to fight it. I think you can say similar things about Soros; each represents and supports unique, rivaling perspectives of the American left and right... but they're not evil. :p
Fair enough. I know at least one of the Koch brothers is active in the arts and one sits on several boards in NYC I believe.
I think we agree that we don't want this to become ideological, either left or right, but instead focus on solutions to get us out of this mess and allow the average Joe to make a decent living support their families and expect that their next generation can have the opportunity to do better than themselves.
Democrats are as much a part of the problem as Republicans. Both shill and horsetrade with whatever interest groups they can to shore up electoral support, then sell them all out when it comes to legislation. What this movement needs to be about is an end to the corporate influences in government. An end to campaign financing by big ticket donors and an end to the influence that buys them. We need our legislators and office holders to be able to govern without needing to worry about placating interest groups and financiers and certainly need to stop believing one party or the other in this dog-and-pony show actually cares about the average person presently. And no Sbarak, we don't need guns and arms. Your romantic fantasies about what insurrection and rebellion should look like would only serve to discredit the movement and get people killed. This is not Libya. We're not living under an authoritarian military police state.
come on protesters like you think your going to get what you want? you need to start with your local police departments and National Guard Stations to make them come to arms if you want any change. Other wise you are just protesting producers making movies you don't like.