Forum Post: POLL
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 10, 2011, 12:29 a.m. EST by anima
(60)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
What kind of Government would you like?
1) Truly Free Market Capitalism - competitive environment, tiny government, personal responsibly, government out of your life
2) Socialist Democracy - heavily regulated business, massive government programs, free healthcare, no guns
Comment 1 or 2
You choices are like a bill in front of the senate. Some good stuff with some stupid sub-clause that screws the bill up but must be included in order for it to pass. And geared so everyone says yes to #1 or they are idiots. So I say:
3.) Happy medium: a regulated, competitive environment where people are educated and personally responsible with a government only large enough to keep things in check and provide for the masses.
Lets face it, without a government system in place, we would have complete anarchy. This movement is about leveling the playing field for all of us. Not just the rich.
Agree with earthwarrior80 and kmanpdx...
States and local governments should have the right to determine how to best run their communities,and uphold the ideals values of these communities...
Free the market and let farmers farm rather than corporate factory farming...
Free the market and expand our use of alternative, environmentally responsible energies...
Free the market and watch US grow.
Bring our troops home and let them be with their families and contribute to our changing society.
Great comments, as usual we people are intelligent, can think for ourselves, and come up with great ideas. So inspiring this movement, so democratic, cannot say thank you enough to those few that started it.
I've come to believe that the stupid subclauses are there so that no matter which way you voted on anything they can say things like you hate babies, or veterans, or whatever..In which case whomever has the most money will always carry the argument.
I prefer the 3rd option, thousands of different governments all suited to their local population and local environment, what works in Washington may not work in NY, or Michigan, or Florida. The revolution is not about switching one Government for another but allowing for hundreds, thousands of "governments" to be born to represent the needs of their local population,
agreed!
A bottom up approach of limited government with power of force derived at the local level.
I ask you to imagine a once free America. Imagine an America which promoted individual liberty and personal responsibility, not a welfare state. Imagine an America where the Constitution applied to every person and every case, no matter how bad the crime or criminal at suspect. Imagine an America restrained by the Constitution, due process and the rule of law. Imagine an America devoid of secret watch lists, secret prisons and secret assassinations.
Imagine a moral society which only engaged in just war and only as a last resort. Imagine an America, where the decision to go to war, is actually one declared by congress. Imagine an America which never endorsed the use of preventive wars to promote peace. Imagine an America where torture was never acceptable, even if called "enhanced" interrogation techniques. Imagine an America in which a warrant was always required to search or seize persons or property. Imagine an America which respected the writ of habeas corpus and condemned indefinitely detaining individuals.
Imagine an America where prosperity wasn't derived from private printing presses, but from true wealth. Imagine an America not ravished by endlessly spending a fiat currency in pursuit of economic growth; all the while promoting the welfare and warfare state. Imagine an America which encouraged savings at the same time destroying that very possibility by devaluing their currency through the deceitful act of controlled monetary inflation. Imagine an America where coins were still worth their weight. Imagine an American in which gold and silver were actually legal tender.
Imagine an America where children are not arrested for front yard lemonade stands. Imagine an America where you couldn’t be arrested and jailed for gardening on your property. Imagine an America without checkpoints where blood could be drawn against one's will, and without warrant. I ask you to imagine an America where citizens could make the simple decision to drink raw milk. Imagine an America which valued personal choice and responsibility above dictating morality through law. Imagine an America which allowed companies to actually protect their property and customers. Imagine an America where individuals actually had the right to their life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness as long as they didn’t endanger others.
Imagine if rights are actually derived from creation, and not from government.
Imagine now an America in which citizens understood and respected the experiment of liberty. Imagine now an America which still embraces the tired, the poor, and the huddled masses yearning to breathe free. Imagine now an America where the wretched refuse, the homeless, those searching for a New Colossus could venture to experience liberty. Imagine now America no longer safeguarded the liberty they sought, but only the security and secrecy of the state.
Imagine an America where ignorance isn’t sold as wisdom; and tolerance not delivered by force. Imagine an America where politicians stood behind American principles. Imagine an America where oath to the Constitution was taken seriously and always upheld. Imagine an America of resounding liberty; not one of ever incrementally increasing tyranny. Imagine America as she once was: free and prosperous.
Now try to imagine an idea. Imagine an idea so powerful, so strong in it conviction, no army or government could stop it. Imagine a return of the respect of the Constitution. Imagine a return to due process and the rule of law in all cases. Imagine a return to sound currency and sound monetary policy. Imagine the abolishment of partaking down the dangerous path of legislating morality. Imagine a return to a foreign policy of freedom and not of preemptive wars and nation building. Imagine the return to the ideals of extending friendship to all, and having entangling alliances with no one. Above all else, Imagine Liberty and understand the responsibility having it demands from each of us. Imagine America not as your Empire but as a Republic.
Freedom is a relatively new idea, liberty a young experiment. Imagine this youthful ideal lost to simple apathy and content. Imagine a chance to restore this ideal. Imagine if we had the chance to Restore America Now.
Imagine a Revolution. A Ron Paul Revolution.
I like how you use michigan as an example state. MI is always forgotten! In the end, when we have ruined the planet (humans) michigan and other states around the great lakes will be where the human race will flock! Fresh water, thank you. www.purpleblogspot.blogspot.com - submit your ideas on how OWS can change our government - or the world!
I just added voting! It has been requested by OWS supporters and I've delivered. visit www.purpleblogspot.blogspot.com and submit your ideas. What would you like to see changed about our government? What would you like OWS to accomplish? We are one voice - with many ideas!
sign your name to the list of supporters! http://purpleblogspot.blogspot.com/2011/10/list-of-ows-supporters.html
^^THIS! It's what the founders intended, hence the 9th and 10th amendments. Local govt is the only govt that the people can exercise any control over. We need the federal monsters out of our lives.
This is it! Stick with this! Agreed!
Disagree. Thousands of small governments often cannot take effective group action. I think this is too simplistic. The weakness of such a system is apparent in the failures of the Articles of Confederation and the Civil War Confederacy in US history.
agree
Put all governments and their bombs one one island and if they want to kill each other then let them, away from the 99% of the people.
I agree: I think we have a very poor constitutional and political system for the 21st century. We have a system which was marvelous for 13 independent, loosely-tied states..." ~ Paul Kennedy, Professor of History (Yale) on CBS Sunday Morning (1/2/2011)
We should be 50 independent loosely-tied states.
The best "experiment" should be in health care, which should be a community issue, not a federal issue, not even a state issue. If it were up to thousands of different local communities to figure out how to provide cost effective and preventative health care, I'm sure a few would figure it out.
then what would define us as a nation. If and when the gov't collapses we are going to end up with regional powers.. powers that will increasingly compete for diminishing resources and with the power to limit free commerce. It will be very ugly and it will be the 2nd dark age.
well, you're presuming a federal government collapse. As originally envisioned "united" States were fairly independent and united for things like military, interstate commerce, foreign relations and commerce, etc. My view is a federal government should be the "safety net" for State government when States can't figure it out and get into trouble.
human nature and local culture being what it is, and more easily controlled by a "few"... I think your grand vision far exceeds the capability of human kind to remain humane without serious oversight.
and that worked so well as a model when the Roman empire collapsed into city states and the dark ages...
Again, inspired by your thoughts. If most of our federal government functions were transferred to State, that would be great, just like the immigration issue, let those states that have the problem handle the problem. But, we all would have to get involved, and it would be easier State government, and keep a close eye on them. Transparency would have to be complete. Townhall meetings would have to be mandatory.
Aha, The Third Wave (Alvin Toffler) is coming!
Remember real time control of gov't decisions.
I support local governments while having a single constitution for the country.
exactly. and there is only one way to do that...http://www.radiokazoo.net/OPV/
That's what 1 is about. Free market capitalism means no central authority can take away what you've earned. local systems can work however they want, and transactions are voluntary. If the government is out of your life, you can create your own government.
If I were satisfied with your small minded choices. I would vote and go home.
Cute play on political hotwords
Neither ever existed here. That's a "Heads I win, Tails you loose." type of poll question.
Opting out.
Why are those the only two choices offered? Why not a mix between the two? Like regulated business (long-term the environment is important) and free healthcare, but private businesses still exist and compete?
Until we get the money out of elections you won't even get a say in it.
I agree 100%.
I know the OWS movement is not about what I want but what every one wants... I just hope every one wants to get the money out of our government. =)
So let's unite and spread the word! We can debate the rest later.
I agree again...
We know what the problem is, we don't need it clouded with political rhetoric. It only distracts and divides us.
Also agree. Something concrete, something actually possible in the short term, and something most of the 99% can rally around-Even ultra right.
Great, great, agree, and I think OWS is doing a fine job of doing just that. But it is democratic so let them keep doing what they are doing, listening, asking for all to give input, and best of all keeping union leaders out, but supportive, and politicians away. Isn't that what we are fighting, our political system and their business as usual?
Yes that's the easy and universally agreeable first step. Its an idea we can all rally around. And it would make a real difference if done correctly
Your questions are leaning Republican. I like Government regulation on things that keep us safe, Healthcare for all, and Guns in homes for protection. Also, regulation on guns to keep mentally ill people and thugs from getting them. I like a competitive environment, as well as personal responsibility with the understanking that Government does have a roll to play in our lives. If you are going to do a poll, at lease understand the facts about government.
[Deleted]
ohhh the drama!!!!
Neither. Option 3 has to be a combination of both based on an issue. What is the best method for education? Health? Transportation? Defense? Agriculture?
It does not have to be all socialist or all capitalist. Any system will work if we the people agree upon and abide by the system but it has to make sense for each issue. We need good capitalism and good socialism and not the bad capitalism and socialism we see, to have now.
Neither. I don't think either solution was intended to work everywhere / everywhen. They only really make sense in the context of the era in which they were dreamed up or evolved. Capitalism has given us enormous scale and efficiencies -- we should not abandon these. Socialism implies a sense of social duty -- perhaps even benevolent. Nothing wrong there. The problem we have with our current system is that they answer to no one and serve their own interests. Then the politicians -- who are NOT mathematicians, scientists or engineers (read: "unqualified") -- get involved and create money (from where?) to bail out the criminals who created the problem in the first place -- leaving US with the bill. So we have to solve two problems -- fix the financial system accountability AND require our politicians to operate more transparently. Oh, and by the way, popularity contests should NOT be used to elect our officials -- they should be qualified to lead. IMHO.
Those choices and this poll are intellectually dishonest. Two fake choices, limited in their scope.
Whe need a secure voting system where you can vote yes or no and the vote count is visible for anyone....
1!!! TRUE free market capitalism, not the corporatist government we have now!
Those are not the only options. Oversimplifying is a waste of time.
You all are great! I feel the only way we can get back on safe financial footing again is to close the Enron Loophole created for energy/oil speculators and bring back The Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, which prevented the current banking and insurance scams/loopholes. After all, it worked great until late 90's when Congress threw it out. Since then, like prior to 1933, we are experiencing what our country went though then, total Wall Street greed with no penalties, its all legal gambling now...thanks to the architects of our new system in 1999, President Clinton and Senator Gramm.
And for the Free Trade Movement, bringing back the Glass-Steagall Act will not hurt our financial markets or hinder free trade, as the GOP rhetoric claims, instead with this back in PLACE bankers can still make millions a day, but not trillion as they do now on the accounts of hard working Americans. Cheers to all that are involved! Jim
Why we need Glass-Steagall to be reinstated:
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/03/071603.asp#axzz1aPEc3wXj http://www.counterpunch.org/2008/09/19/shattering-the-glass-steagall-act/
Why are oil prices high?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waL5UxScgUw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbdtTGYQBMU&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNp0y0SjOkY&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-kExdTgNZA&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EZ5bx9AyI4 <- THIS IS WHAT WE WANT!
1 ... The # 3 option proposed below is anarchy and will never happen
www.petition2congress.com/2376/
False choices.
Won't work either way!
Neither, I prefer a popular democracy, the definition being where the democracy serves the popular wishes of the masses NOT those of the few with influence and access.
Co-operatives, worker-led industry and community-led government reduces the amount of unjustifed authority in the national government, allows private businesses to share in the profits, dividends and voting right of their employees and empowers local government to taylor their needs according to the population. On the nation level, we need to increase our number of representatives to reduce their authority...dilute the sugar with water! At the time of the first congress there was one representative for every 50,000 citizens (not to mention that blacks, women and men who didnt own property couldnt vote). Today, there is one representative for every 500,000 citizens. This allows Washington to accumulate authority, less party diversity/less parties and less contact with your representative and ultimately less accountability!
What Americans have in commen...The Monetary System. A system perpetrated on Americans by a Private Banking Cartel. This Cartel has run the world into ruin with their tedious, tortuous tricks. They have committed attrocities in the name of the American People. They have ruined the good name of the American People with their corrupt practices. Americans must eliminate the Occult Backed "Federal Reserve Note" and replace it with United States Notes.
What Americans have in commen...The Monetary System. A system perpetrated on Americans by a Private Banking Cartel. This Cartel has run the world into ruin with their tedious, tortuous tricks. They have committed attrocities in the name of the American People. They have ruined the good name of the American People with their corrupt practices. Americans must eliminate the Occult Backed "Federal Reserve Note" and replace it with United States Notes.
What Americans have in commen...The Monetary System. A system perpetrated on Americans by a Private Banking Cartel. This Cartel has run the world into ruin with their tedious, tortuous tricks. They have committed attrocities in the name of the American People. They have ruined the good name of the American People with their corrupt practices. Americans must eliminate the Occult Backed "Federal Reserve Note" and replace it with United States Notes.
This is a silly poll. There are positives and negatives to each of these systems. What we need is a system that works and we need to develop this system by taking the best aspects of each of these choices and develop a working hybrid. Socialism and libertarianism have both largely failed world wide.
The government has but one role and that is to protect it's citizens; militarily, economically, environmentally and in every way that really matters... Beyond that, government should leave it's people alone.
Here is the real problem: there has been a massive "wealth redistribution" that has gone on for the last 30 years. The top 1% now controls over 42% of our entire nation's wealth and the top 10% now controls over 70% of our entire nation's wealth. The bottom 50% now control around 2% of our entire nation's wealth. (University of Southern California Study).
How did this wealth redistribution happen? The middle class is the engine of our economy. The middle class spends their wealth on corporate goods/services and the corporations take that money in as profit. The corporations redistributed the middle class wealth by paying vast majority of their profits out to the executives at the top and shareholders. Middle class wages have stagnated for 30 years while executive wages have gone up 256% in since 1980. We have not seen numbers like this since the great depression. All of our nation's wealth has been redistributed into the hands of the few.
How did this happen? The middle class was roped into replacing wages with easy credit and loans. So instead of paying people living wages, corporations fooled us into thinking we were doing well and could afford things by giving us easy credit instead of wages. Instead of having wages to buy t.v.'s, furniture, etc. we were given easy loans. So the middle class became a debtor class.
There used to be a tax disincentive to paying out all of corporate profits at the top because in the 1950's income was taxed at 90% over a certain amount money ($2 million in today's dollars) and now that tax disincentive has disappeared. In 1950's the highest marginal tax rate was 90%. In 1960-1970's it was 70%. In 1980's it dropped to 49%. In 1990's dropped to 39%. Under George Bush it dropped to a mere 36%.
We have had over 30 years of massive tax cuts for the wealthy. There is now no tax disincentive to paying out all of the corporate wealth at the top. And there is no employee bargaining power because now less than 7% of all of private sector jobs are unionized. With no tax disincentive and no employee bargaining power, all of the corporate profits are being paid to shareholders and executives. Why can't you just trust executives to pay people fair wages? In the 1980's our courts ruled that corporate executives only have one duty and that is to maximize shareholder profits. The 1980's ruling single-handedly removed executives from having any duties to their employees, society, or to the company's long-term future.
Executives only have one duty and that is to maximize short-term shareholder profits. And executive compensation is usually directly tied to maximizing short-term shareholder profits. This caused companies to not create long-term growth plans and to instead use gimmicks to increase short-term profits.
In fact, instead of executives using innovation, creation, and growth to increase profits and stock prices, executives know that they can do it through easier methods like laying-off workers and cost-cutting by moving healthcare and retirement costs onto the backs of the workers.
The problems are: 1) deregulation of the banks by the Republican-controlled congress in 1999 (Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act); 2) hedge funds are exempt from regulation (and are currently causing the world financial crisis by betting against Greece and other Euro nations and the Euro currency); 3) tax system no longer has a disincentive against paying outrageous executive salaries (highest marginal tax rate has dropped from 90% to 36%); 4) commodities market (oil, gold, food, metals) is exempt from regulation and is now a haven for financial speculators (Republican-controlled Congress exempted it in the Commodities Future Modernization act of 2000); 5) the Supreme Court has ruled that corporations can spend unlimited funds in campaign elections - Citizen's United case (thus politicians on both sides favor the wealthy/corporations) and 6) the rise of corporate/billionaire propaganda media "news." Because of the need to raise massive sums in politics today, we no longer have a party that represents the people. The Democrats have to chase the corporate and big money donors too.
What can we do about this: 1) re-instate Glass-Steagall Act regulating the banks; 2) regulate hedge funds and the commodities market (because the commodities market is not regulated speculation has caused prices for commodities to go through the roof); 3) get rid of the money in politics (have federally funded elections with clear limits on spending and no outside groups allowed to have ads); 4) get rid of 1980's laws stating that corporations' only duty is to maximize shareholder profits; and 5) regulate "news" channels and newspapers (no more "slanted opinion news" masquerading as hard news) and reinstitute the fairness doctrine across all news outlets to ensure that both sides get equal time.
I have proposed the same course of action... I believe if OWS makes the mistake of confronting anything outside of the stream of corruption that makes effective and good governance impossible.. the movement will fade. They need to stay away from policy and cut of the avenues of corruption which you stated above. http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150336413048367
False dichotomy. We have never had a truly free market capitalist system and you cannot have it without a lot of government intervention because people in the free market always try to gain anti-competitive advantages e.g. monopolies, tying arrangements, create barriers to market entry etc. People in the market try to gain any advantage and prevent competition not on the basis that their product is better but by preventing other better products and companies from competing with them. Unregulated capitalism ends up being nothing other than monopolies and a oligarchy.
or -
Choice 1 is one definition for the GOP loyal, Choice 2 is Nazi-ism - assuming the 'no guns' part doesn't apply to the government. Let's try again, shall we?
Don't present me with false choices just because you want to build a case for your ideology.
I would take option 1, but we don't get that. We get a twisted version of # 1 with the federal Reserve, and special Interest dictating to Government what to do. There are better options than what you are proposing.
If things were that simple I could be president.
I would like the kind of government that our democracy was meant to be. A government that hears all voices. I believe that 1% buys their representation in government and 99% are left with the scraps. Money speaks too loudly in our political political process. And it is diminishing our democracy. We need to get our democracy back.
Technocracy and to abolish money.
With Free Market Capitalism, there is the one absolute that causes Socialist Democracy ( or Marxism, or Communism or anything similar) to ALWAYS fail in the long run: Incentive. The other choices turn people into parasites to the system. But the former is hard and the latter is easy. And with Freedom comes the freedom to fail. Freedom takes self discipline, determination. Socialist Democracy cannot tolerate individuality. Look at China. I would compare it to Big Agriculture that for the last hundred years has tried to turn animals into machines. It doesn't turn out well for the animals.
3) Somewhere in between, like we have today, but "new and improved...BUT WAIT...if you order right now we'll include..."
a reasonable solution in the middle.. unregulated Capitalism is a path to fascism... and Socialism without regard for enterprise is a recipe for bankruptcy... look at Greece
Number Two
Absolutely #1
I would like an effective judicial branch that stamps out unconstitutional laws like CAPTA, ASFA, VAWA and CSSA among others. The fed wrote statutes that guarantee the incarceration of innocent men accused of domestic violence. These statutes eliminate any defense and make the least slightest act by a man criminally sanctionable. How many men now have criminal records because of this? The fed wrote statutes to rip children from the bosom of their mothers and force termination of parental rights and forced adoptions. This separation of children from mothers is based upon bogus allegations of neglect or abuse: for instance, the mother takes the child to too many doctors or leaves a mark on the kid’s arm. Men are maneuvered into surrendering their children in family courts and are being forced to pay whopping amounts in child support where there is never a showing that the child needs support. It is simply the law that the man must pay. There is even an apparatus that eventually flips custody from the mother where she cannot see her children. There is an industry of psychologists and kids’ lawyers who keep a man’s kids away from him and make him pay mental health professionals for cures to see his kid. I can go on and on about how the judiciary did not stop these antics but instead played host to these laws and enforced them to the point that many American men of child rearing years have criminal records, cannot see their children, owe support they cannot afford and cannot work steadily because they have to be in court every other week.
I would like a government where the PEOPLE remain the POWER. One that instead of money we work out of Love and self-sufficiency.
I'll take the second choice. What is wrong with that? In a represented democracy politicians are elected to represent and serve the people otherwise who needs them. A well diverse government will act in many areas of government responsibly. Private corporations do not have the best interest of the people in mind and are in these scarce areas that government should take over.
i'd prefer to clean the slate with SD....wipe out the govt....and start over with your Truly™ Free Market Capitalism....bad name though...
local goverment........the way to change what we have is to flip flop the amount of taxes paid between the local and federal governments. Then we'd all see the local results of our money, where the people who represent us are at least within our reach and not at the WDC trough oinking at the lobbyists to fill their trough with money to get re-elected.
lol. always false dillemmas. neither one nor two. actual free market, not slave market, actual democracy. socialist absolutely not!
why are you proposing and continuing and perpetuating that false dillemma? our real choice is between any kind of oligarchy and democracy.
both of your so called choices are oligarchy. http://occupywallst.org/forum/thetruth-socialismcapitalismcommunismmarxism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-versus-corporatism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/help-me-understand/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-a-love-story/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/sociology/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/energy-101-solution/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ethics/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/break-your-left-right-conditioning/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/nader-kucinich-and-paul/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/5-facts-you-should-know-about-the-wealthiest-one-p/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/i-am-homeless-joe-jp-morgan-chase-accidentally-for/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/can-we-end-the-fed/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/teaching-the-occupation/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-forum-needs-structure/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-not-your-personal-billboard-for-your-politi/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/systems-theory-primer/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/organize-inform-take-action-effect-change/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/better-website-needed/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-playing-the-devils-games/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/nonviolence-the-only-path/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-not-against-capitalism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-is-not-about-political-stripe-it-is-about-bas/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/national-initiative-for-democracy/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-third-political-party-the-movement-of-the-middle/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/300-fema-camps/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-a-false-flag-operation/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-this-will-not-work/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/paradigm-shift-now/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-proposal-for-focus/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-the-bullshit-posts-and-get-organized/
Speaking of polls. Check out the results of the Fox News online poll. There's a link back to it at the top of this timeline page if you'd like to vote. We're winning big! http://www.willrichardson.net/funhouse/occupyfoxnews.htm
You're question doesn't make sense. You're asking what type of government we would like and then listening economic systems. I would like a democratic government that utilizes a resource based economy. I would like small, local governments to run the show.
Because these polar opposites reflect reality... Someone has to stop watching so much corporate media.
[Deleted]
Of course you can't have both, how can you have both when both are polar opposites?
The premise of your question is simply faulty. You take some of each system to create a healthy, moderate system. You don't choose an extremist view. So your question isn't thought provoking or relevant, it is just garbage.
Another person that hasn't read The Communist Manifesto. Socialist Democracy is an oxymoron. Not possible. Please stop using words in a way that is not actually what they mean.
I would prefer #1.
if you want freedom you'll want ONE!
1
Liberty or death.
without question, and I'd fight for; 1