Forum Post: No Sympathy for the Lazy
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 10, 2011, 1:57 a.m. EST by Wymarra
(21)
from Long Beach, NY
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
You all have an over-inflated sense of expectation and belief in your own intellectual ability, waaaay too many of you are at college when you shouldn't be (if you're not in the top 10% you shouldn't be at college). You are actually inhibiting your earning capability by wasting years studying subjects that are completely irrelevant in the world.
“If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to the library.” ― Frank Zappa
Most sensible thing said all day.
Soon you will need a B.S. simply to opperate a forklift. Enterprise car rental is requiring one just to work processing car rentals.
Yea, you need 60 college credits or military service to join NYPD and I hear that some towns require a BA.
This guy gets it!
I have a degree, but that's a damn shame! What's going to happen to people that don't have a degree if these types of jobs are going to start requiring one?
Over emphasis on education is a huge problem in Western Society.
When was the last time we really felt a division between social classes?
It starts at work; the company I work for often promotes people with higher education to management over people with experience. Once you’re in management they begin to make you believe that you’re not just a worker anymore (which is bull). Soon, if you fall for it, you start acting like a jerk thinking you’re important to the company (failing to realize you’re just a tool). It kills me how some of my co-supervisors think they can get grown men and women to do a better job for them by talking to them like garbage, and then get upset when myself and others tell them to chill. It starts in the work place.
At the university I attended I was literally shocked by the way the supposedly "tolerant" and diverse community talked about working class people.
Rednecks and racists were the common catch phrases. Think you'll find that attitude is deeply ingrained in many of today's youth, which is really sad.
I know lots of rednecks and racist with education. If people would open their eyes they could clearly see that the people that are screwing this country are as assorted as a bag of M&M’s. They laugh at us for being so distracted.
Your thesis is a fraud; your worldview is oligarchical; your intelligence is lacking; and your morality is non-existent. Ben Franklin (a far greater man than you are or could ever hope to be) refuted your kind in rather eloquent and very concise terms over two centuries ago:
"A learned blockhead is a greater blockhead than an ignorant one."
Since you are satisfied being an ignorant blockhead though, I will happily leave you to it. My only request would be that you and others like you simply have the decency to kindly butt out of the existential affairs of humanity.
Thank you, muchos gracias, et merci beaucoup.
An ignorant blockhead with job skills is better off than a learned person with no job skills.
Yeah until he screws up your order because hes an idiot and costs your company thousands.
Why do you think that someone without a college education is automatically an idiot? I find the reverse to be true more often than not.
Remember that Einstein never completed high school.
Einstein obtained his Doctorate in 1905.
einstein was never a block head.
Either is the guy who built your house or fixes your car.
You mean architects or Automotive engineers?
Mechanics and builders.
Architects don't build either.
They design the houses that we live in.
You're learning fast!
"A learned blockhead is a greater blockhead than an ignorant one."
Granted, but who said that the common man is ignorant? It wasn't me and it certainly wasn't Ben Franklin. Education does not make you superior to the next man,. nor does it entitle you to privileges not provided to the uneducated.
In days gone by I wouldn't be speaking like this because only the best of the best were provided the opportunity to obtain further education and were thus allowed special considerations and preferential treatment. Now that's it's so diluted and common this does not apply.
Honestly? You are from NY and you are not aware that CCNY was free from 1847 until 1976?
Yes, education is more diluted and common but more expensive than ever.
It's an education bubble, so education bureaucrats and banks can profit.
I'm not from NY, I've only lived here for 5 months. I'm originally from Australia.
My main issue is that someone with a physical skill or a registered tradesman is considered a lesser being by the educated folk (they would never, ever consider scrubbing toilets or changing oil), many of whom would have been forced to complete labor in the past due to their unremarkable intelligence.
Again, this doesn't apply to all, just a minority. Which is what this site is all about, right?
People go to college to create a better life for themselves so that they don't have to scrub a toilet or change the oil. After 4 years of dedicating your life to a career, you shouldn't be asked to have to scrub the toilet.
I agree that too many people may have been "pushed" or felt compelled to pursue college when perhaps they shouldn't have. But we just said below how even police officers now are being required to have college credits in order to apply for the job!
And I don't think tradespeople should be looked down upon. In this country, we used to have vocational programs available in public high schools - carpentry, metal shop, auto mechanics. But those programs have disappeared from many high schools. The only "trade" that is being taught is basic computer skills. I think bringing some real vocational programs back into public schools would lift a lot of people up.
You're second paragraph pretty much sums up irritation with the current system.
I left school at 15 and worked 2 years in a warehouse and doing various other things before I saw the light and returned to school, I graduated inside the top 8% and obtained my university degree. It's scary when I think about how badly I was abandoned by the education system and how little I actually knew about the world, I left school with no skills and had to learn them on the job.
I feel for the children who do not have the capacity to go to college as well as the kids at college who do not have ANY real skill even after obtaining mediocre grades in a mediocre course. More focus on real skills, less on qualifications.
I graduated in the top 2% of my high school class. I graduated from college with honors. My degree is International Business, B.S. And that's a good name for it, because BS is exactly what it is. You have an over-inflated sense of confidence in what you believe to be reality.
If you were so intelligent why on earth would you study International business? That's like saying to the world that you are happy to remain unemployed.
I'm pretty sure you can't study International Business without already being intelligent.
I'm not doubting his intelligence or the toughness of International Business. I just think that choosing to study IB when you are in the top 2% is an extremely poor life decision.
International Business is what people study who are interested in becoming diplomats and, well INTERNATIONAL BUSINESSMEN as the title of the major implies.
I don't think there's honestly anything particularly impractical about that major, especially if it's chosen by an eighteen year old who's still figuring out their options, or even by a twenty-something.
Your views on the arts and the like are expressed by many (though I don't completely agree), and are understandable expressions of jobless majors, but international business? That's a field that lends itself to practicality in most analyses.
Truth is, as I've pointed out in other places on this forum ,that my generation was told to go for Bachelors degrees, regardless of what they were, because the degree itself was the leg-up. Now, it turns out that this can't get you a part time job at Starbucks.
I think that it's logical for many of us to be upset, especially when, even though we aren't in the 10%, we were all told and made to go to college by either our parents or our peers and many of us weren't really that interested in dropping out.
I also definitely think it's presumptuous and a little sad that unless we're in the top tier of society, we shouldn't be entitled to study the things that interest us. Granted, those things don't have to provide us a full time job with a killer salary, but I definitely do believe that a bachelor's degree should be worth SOMETHING in the job market and it's frustrating that it isn't.
As I said before, IB is a solid degree, but:
It won't get a you a top job in a competitive private firm. Might only be useful if you are considering politics (you would obviously be deranged) or entering the public service, of course there are many entry level positions you may be suitable for but I just find that type as very limiting and restrictive to future movements. I do hope he is young and has an opportunity to change his course into something more rewarding.
Why should a college degree get you a job that doesn't require any of the skills you have studied for? The fact is that when you dilute the talent so far, a Bachelor's degree is no longer highly regarded. If everyone has one, even average at best students (which there are a lot of) it hurts the entire market. This concept also applies to the more popular degrees as well, if 1000 people studied the same subject and you came 400th or worse, you're just not that special and have wasted your time as well as the ever increasing opportunity cost of lost wages and promotions that you are forgoing.
I should come up with a formula that helps decides whether or not you should go to college, it would include:
I think that the majority of college students would come out with a negative rating.
I think you're pretty pessimistic. I don't normally say things like that...but I just think that this is a really negative outlook on humanity. I've actually argued liberals down from their idea that college is just for shits and giggles regarding your education and that it doesn't have to mean anything regarding the job market, but...
I don't know- you're suggesting that some people shouldn't attain higher learning at all. That just really doesn't sit right with me on an instinctual level. And it's not anything about me being liberal or anything like that...it's more that I really think that education is the key to truth in the world. It's something deeply philosophical.
If everyone obtains "higher learning" what about it remains "high"?
The institution itself was intended for only the brightest of the population. It was an honor and a privilege to be allowed or selected to attend, it was never the state's obligation or a human right (unlike basic education).
The point of higher education or eveneducation is the evolution of our intelligence of a species and the goal is to expand the idea of basic and higher education during every generation. There's a conscious and subconscious push against this education through many of the things you're saying, against this goal.
That's not something that I can honestly understand. I think it should be of utmost importance to educate people in every generation...as much as humanly possible.
It's become clear now that in fact there are more important things than the number of people in a society with their name on a sheet of paper.
Our infatuation with educating the average person beyond school should be ending soon, it is not our obligation and as we are seeing now, it only hurts them in the long run.
And on a philosophical level, I have to completely disagree with you. I'm actually not saying that you don't have a decent practical point regarding education and I'm not saying that you shouldn't voice yourself, I'm just saying that I believe that the primary goal of all human society is to educate human beings until they understand as much as they possibly can.
You do mean the lazy fair system with that invisible hand ransacking people’s accounts?
One month after SB 1070 passed in Arizona the US job market suddenly stopped improving while other states did the same thing.
This kind of immigration policy is messing up the housing and job market.
If we gave those 10-20 million illegals the boot tomorrow ... there would be millions of empty residences across the country ... taxes would go unpaid ... foreclosures would go up … http://lenderama.com/2007/12/29/illegal-immigration-and-the-housing-market/
This becomes obvious when you look at the drop in consumer demand caused by SB 1070 inside Arizona, and similar destructive policies began in many other states at the same time.
Vendors say illegal immigration crackdown prompted Mesa Swap Mart's closing http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/arizona/immigration/article_f1f25e2c-80b1-11df-995d-001cc4c002e0.html
Meanwhile, the economy of Mexico is improving.
In Mexico, an energized economy raises hopes http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-02-10-Mexicorising_N.htm Mexican President says countries economy getting better http://www.chron.com/news/nation-world/article/Mexican-president-says-country-s-economy-getting-1734927.php
The US recession and the Mexican boom correspond with illegal immigrants leaving the US and going to Mexico.
Illegal immigrant population declines 1.7 million at the beginning of the recession http://www.cis.org/IllegalImmigration-ShiftingTide
Seems fairly obvious that illegal immigrants are taking their consumer demand with them back to Mexico when they leave the country, and that this is one source of the decline in consumer demand that is causing unemployment in the US and economic prosperity in Mexico.
" You are actually inhibiting your earning capability by wasting years studying subjects that are completely irrelevant in the world. "
I actually kind of agree with this part lol. Most people that graduate collage end up in jobs that are totally unrelated to anything they learned or studied in collage.
I love to learn just hate to overpay for it. U.S. Education system will get you heavily in debt and turn you into a labor/slave. I can study all I need from a public library. I got my degree my mainly reading on my own and take the finals. I had to work part-time to support my tuition and living expense, so I guarantee you going to college is a total waste of time for me. I just used the diploma as a tool to secure a job, that's all it does.
I can see how most of us in law class,engineering class and multimedia class are wasting our time. Goddamn you see one person with a liberal arts degree and you sheeple think thats what everyone has. You are beyond retarded.
I'm not sure the colleges and the people profiting from student loans would agree with you.
Some have profited from this idea that everyone needs to go into debt to get an education, the more expensive the education the better.
I'm all for personal responsibility and I didn't choose the six-figures-of-student loan debt route - but, there's been a push in our culture these past 20 years that caused this to happen.
Parents who push their kids and have unrealistic expectations, schools that recruit and keep raising tuition, there is plenty of blame to go around.
So your telling us that only 10% of the country should be given an opportunity for higher education?
You sir, are a good old fashioned moron. A Dolt, if you will.
If you are not intellectually inclined then why should you be entitled to education? The problems we have are caused mainly by over-education, people not willing to lower their expectations in the job market because of their "college degree" (that anyone with half a brain could have got).
Universities were always places for higher learning, not drop in centers for people who are defined by the level of education they receive.
So you think people should be stupider. You'd like to go backwards.
I don't see any evidence anywhere that people are more intelligent? We might know more about the universe and science but it's hard to find someone that can change their own tire or fix something that's broken. You have a pre-determined measure of intelligence, that has been pushed on you since primary school, as being your level of education when in the fact some of the smartest people I know are builders and plumbers.
For you to work as a mechanic or a builder would be seen as defeat in your eyes because you already consider yourself above these people, as evidenced by that reply.
First of all, changing a tire or fixing something small should not be considered activities that require intelligence. Anyone can do these things.
Working as a mechanic or a builder requires a high level of education as well. I can't just wake up tomorrow and decide "I want to be a mechanic today!"
But what if you decide you don't want to be a mechanic? What if you are intelligent but you want to be a civil engineer? Why should you be stripped of the right to pursue that?
Again it comes back to my original point, if you are intelligent enough to make the most of a college degree then you are entitled to that. I would find it crushing as well if once I had finished my degree I couldn't find a job, which is why it should be avoided.
If you look closely at the figures of jobs being offered and people studying those fields there is a huge discrepancy.
Instead of clogging our education systems with over educated "academics" there should be more on-the-job training straight out of High School that offers real skills and real reward. When you finish that you have something tangible and a skill that will always be required.
What's your idea of an appropriate college major?
Serious disciplines that are in demand: mathematics, engineering, accounting, hard sciences (not the environmental or social crap), finance/economics etc. etc.
I really think that if your studying Women's Studies or Drama or Environmental Studies or anything like that you shouldn't be at university. You should have on the job training (not that there's any jobs in any of these fields) to prevent people wasting their lives.
What a soulless and dreary world you live in. That is extremely saddening.
you have nothing but an ad hom and projections which are probably confessions of your own shadow issues. sorry your lazy. not our issue. if your not physically lazy you are certainly mentally lazy or you wouldn't be trolling us with this tired meme.
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