Forum Post: ~~~ It has been said we should take up arms
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 12, 2011, 9:51 a.m. EST by ZenDogTroll
(13032)
from South Burlington, VT
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
So it has been said, and it is a position we must acknowledge and address, with honesty and a clear vision, to our past and what has surely been, as to the future, and all that we hope to accomplish.
Toward that end The Declaration of Independence lays out a clear path:
First we must articulate our grievances
Having done that, we must prove, both to ourselves and to the rest of humanity, that all attempts at finding a political solution have been completely exhausted.
Only then is it reasonable, logical, that we take up arms. We aren't there yet, and in fact it is unlikely that we will get to that point.
Should we find ourselves there at some point in the future, we will discover some challenges unique to this age - challenges that George, Thomas, and Ethan, did not have to contend with.
We saw those challenges in Libya. We saw them in Iran. We see them in Tibet and Syria.
From such stark facts we will not shrink.
Yet our system of government does provide mechanisms that should make such an eventuality unnecessary.
It is also true that even with these mechanisms some of us may yet still be lost, sacrificed in the effort to restore this nation and it's promise of equality and justice for all.
We know this to be true, because it has happened before, in Mississippi, in Alabama, and at Kent State.
WE are, and will remain, undaunted.
The use of violence only legitimizes the further use of violence.
I would never ever bump a post
Do it anyway !
It'll make you feel better , or at least counteract the spam !
but you do like to bump and grind.
Save your breath, you are going to need it to blow up your date.
So that's what your mother told you on prom night !!!!
Your bedded hair, like life in excrements, start up and stand on end.
gurlie is still having trouble expressing herself.
[Removed]
The following short film does just that. a little tongue-in-cheek perhaps, but also not really that satirical if you look at what's going on. Worth a look. Careful who leads the charge, that's all. The Robber Barons of Wall Street:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amNO_QJzaQ8
maybe we should start paying are taxes to our group instead of the enemy, and set up our own 3 branches of government elected by us, we the people again. only this time,let we the people regulate what our governmetn does, instead of the current gov which goes unchecked by we the people, almost need a 4th branch which all the others report to: WE THE PEOPLE!
And that is why they passed the National Defense Act of 2012 since you will be deemed terrioist come next spring.
I never got arrested under bush, and I've said shit like this
Maybe you should actually read the forum post
if it came down to it and it was the "only" way i would be down for a revolt itd be a long dark time in americas history though isent there a better way?
Do me a favor?
read it again . . .
The govt. is in bed with the big corps. because the UNITED STATES is a corporation... http://www.abodia.com/2/United-States-is-a-corporation.htm
We need to learn to take control of our LEGAL NAME entity, which is also a corporation and fight them that way! http://www.yourstrawman.com/
With all of the technology and weaponry the govt./military have, no way we as a republic could fight against that and win.
Also, The Supreme Court has said the De jure government offices still exist but the people have failed to occupy them. We need to change that. That's what we need to be occupying and can do so peacefully....
This site explain De Jure. http://www.coloradorepublic.org/
Our forefathers took up arms against tyranny, eventually, we may to also..Because the system is broken, the mechanisms have been bypassed to let the elite get away with massive crime and fraud. We have a two tiered justice system..When is Jon Corzine going to jail?
When Obama and Bill Clinton states that the fraud that happened in 2008 was legal..They are lying...It's fraud! FRAUD!
The financial oligarchs have taken over the western world...Banks now own entire countries and are enslaving whole societies as we fuck around thinking this is just about our country..It's not, this is the big one, it's the fight for the future of humanity and whether we will acquiesce to becoming debt slaves or we unshackle ourselves and fight like hell to become truly free.
Italy down, Ireland down, Greece down. Iceland on the ropes. Look who is the new leaders of Italy and Greece...Bankers!
I hope we can do this peacefully, but our elected scumbags have shown complete disregard for the grievances of the people and continue the same policies that have gotten us to this spot we are currently in and it's getting worse! NDAA, TSA, FEMA.."Homeland" (Read Nazi) Security.
Oh, Naomi Wolf is correct: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/naomi-wolf/ten-steps-to-close-down-a_b_46695.html
To keep the current system going, TPTB will do anything, even turn to Fascism in this country. It's happening and we will have to leave all options open. Protect yourselves, family and friends and anyone who is on the side of freedom...
The passing of the NDAA is getting the stage set for what hasn't happened yet, but WILL happen.
Before you pass any judgement on my comment, please know that you should do so without any prejudice. I know that may be hard in the states. I'm from London and I've been following Occupy Wall street for a few months now. I just would like to say that you guys will never win against the government. As an Ahmadi Muslim, I see that the West's democratic standing has been prophesied as the single biggest evil that has ever existed in the world. There is a description to this extent, namely, the "Dajjal" whose description in the Traditions (Hadith) of Islam matches perfectly to the 'system'.
So that somehow justifies what?
Doing nothing?
In the U.S. we have a participatory system of government, and certain traditions and a culture that suggests even a single person can make a difference.
Was Mohammad not a single person? Did he not make a difference?
Should we not stand up, and tell the truth?
Shall we not say -
Should we instead remain in our houses? with our mouths sealed shut? in the face of such injustice?
I say no, we should not.
I have not read the Quaran, but I say that if it does not instruct the believer to stand up and speak what is true in the face of injustice, to stand up and defend the weak and the helpless against the senseless and unjust cruelty of man, then of what use is it?
"First we must articulate our grievances"
"Having done that, we must prove, both to ourselves and to the rest of humanity, that all attempts at finding a political solution have been completely exhausted."
We are still working on the latter via the O.W.S. movement .
Taking up arms is not needed yet .
As things are going , we may find that day closer than we want it .
Killing is the LAST thing !
Guns at their backs ousting them may be the next step , and firing the guns only in self defense !
first we must articulate with abundant clarity what our grievances are in specific.
How about N.D.A.A.' indefinite detention without a trial for American citizens ?
Yes, this is an issue.
But we must go further - by acknowledging that when the items of legislation were first written that the NDAA builds upon, we were infact picking up al qaida operatives and sympathizers on the battlefield in Afghanistan.
That is no longer true today.
What they originally did was create legislative confusing over whether a detainee was a Prisoner of War or a common criminal.
Portions of the NDAA continues that confusion.
We need to start at the beginning, follow the legislation through the NDAA, and hold it all up.
Or use this process of obfuscation as justification to toss all of them.
I think that if we want A reason, if not Many reasons , N.D.A.A. should be the one to not hold us back , rather get a march started and ended in Washington !
One of your grievances (wants) is the preclusion of downsizing the Post Office. If you examine the latest 10K of the Post Office, you will note the qualification in their audit by Ernest & Young. The link is here on my site: http://www.infonomx.com/OccupyWallStreet_Wiki/pdf/PostOffice_10K_Sept_2011.pdf
After clicking on the link, click on the bookmark "Opinion". Read the text within the red rectangle. Also look at the balance sheet and footnote 2 (bookmarks provided). After this exercise, explain to me how the Post Office can survive "as is". The Post Office is upside-down by $5B and losing that much each year. The PO, as E&Y states, is not liquid. That is, they cannot meet their short-term debt obligations. Current assets = $2.6B and current liabilities = $18.9B. If their problem was efficiency or fraud, there would be a chance of a remedy but, as E&Y states, their major problem is a significant decline in mail pieces. Honestly, where is the surprise here?
The question is who will pay their short-term debts? Again, if that was not enough, consider that the PO is also losing that much each year. Confess to us why you would support a problem that is mathematical irrational? Do you want Congress to bail them out now and perhaps forever?
Does this audit take into account that the Postal Service has overpaid Congress and that the estimates of the overpayment range between
or is this another repelican financed hatchet job designed to strip the American People of those services and institutions that were once, and rightfully so, a matter of such great pride . . .
I only ask because I haven't actually begun examining the issue closely myself, it irks me no end that the constant pressure to privatize every single goddamned function of government is so persistent - that every single
fucking
fact
and supposition
must be weighted
and measured
for veracity.
it's really beginning to piss me off.
Agree. This rush towards privatization is a huge problem. The demonization of government has clearly helped make it possible.
regardless of how it all started, the chief beneficiaries today tend to be the oil industry.
During the budget debate the fucking repelicans worked hard to get any alt energy incentives stripped from the budget.
the bastards.
People in power have a tendency to underestimate those they control. I am reminded of the image of the last great act of defiance.
http://www.zazzle.com/last_great_act_of_defiance_t_shirt-235077733710664308
The best one was with the frogs head down the birds' neck and the frogs hands around that neck !
Why are you here selling t-shirts - and what relevance is the imagery you are selling to the Occupy Movement?
There are always those who will try to make money off of anything. Like this guy bringing up an image made popular in the Vietnam protests. Some people know no shame.
the little girl standing naked on a hi-way, screaming, covered with burns?
someone is trying to make money off that image?
. . . fuckin scumbags. . . .
Yes they are scum. Imagine anyone consciously trying to make money off of human misery. But then there are the sorry misguided individuals who will support the scumbag and buy.
OWS is trying to make money off human misery.....they have no intentions of improving anyone's station in life.....they just seek to punish those who have achieved....sure, some of them foolishly think they will get something out of it, but....when the bill comes due, and there is no money to pay it (and "The Rich" even in net worth, don't have enough to pay it either), who do you think will suffer?
Do you think it is the ones who can organize effort, manage people, and administrate systems? Those who, mostly, know and understand the sorts of labors they oversee (sure there are exceptions, but most people HAVE done some sort of physical labor in their lives).....Physical Labor is EASY, yep, I said it....it only requires a short muscular development period, one within the grasp of almost anyone of average fitness.....
But, understanding dynamic systems, organizing and managing them....THAT is something not everyone can, or will do.....
So, OWS supposes they can rob the purses of those who run the show, without effecting the operation, and they pretend to do it because of the "misery" of others, a "misery" caused predominately by the behaviors and actions of those who are "miserable".....Like every other revolution, or near-revolution, the players are the same, those who think they can get something for nothing, (because that is what they THINK their enemy does), and those who whip them into a frenzy, who later create much greater wretchedness, suffering, and hardship than the original system they chose to revolt against.....
History is clear....
The French Revolution
The Russian Revolution
The Spanish Civil War
The Third Reich
The Cuban Revolution
I could go on, but why.......all of these conflicts began exactly the same way, a bunch of people discontent with the system they lived in, and rather than look inward and figure out what THEY could do, themselves, to better function in the system...they decided to create an enemy, and brought down the existing system instead.....and were their lives improved but those actions?
Pick up a history book and learn for yourself
Revolutions based on envy and centralized authority ALWAYS create destruction and misery....ALWAYS!
So your delusional slammersworldisback . Or you enjoy supporting the Corrupt. Makes no difference. Anyone can see you are a blind marcher. Please continue to post your crap. You do more to support Occupy and 99% movement than you realize, when you spout crap like this.
hardly....occupy tends to discount, or ignore history all together....as do most emotional collective movements.....but, this time, and these people, are a tempest in a teapot, they really don't amount to anything, revolutions toward freedom are led by those with a work ethic, certainly not those in this movement.....who feel entitled to be supported no matter what their contribution, most will live and die as abject failures, and blame others for that condition, while the larger sector of people will work toward something, set goals, and live decent lives, struggling at times, and celebrating at times...that's how it works, It's a shame you fools don't understand that...you want constant celebration....which doesn't exist.......
Most Americans don't want the system to be fundamentally changed.....They like the perks of the capitalist system, and those with sound financial skills and who are willing to work and improve themselves, do just fine, but they are faced, every year, with the cost of more regulations, higher taxes (most they don't even see), higher costs of goods and services...all brought to by your friendly government.
the government which many...especially the spoiled high-chair tyrants who think anything they desire is a "right", that don't really know what the hell they want...nor do they understand the intricacies of that which they protest....seek to empower, to punish those who go beyond participation trophy levels of effort and seek to create and excel...you think that somehow a third party can equalize your lack of effort and intelligence with the greater effort and talent of those who despise......sorry, even if it could happen....that still makes you a loser, if you won the NY marathon by hobbling the kenyan racers who win it regularly, you still wouldn't have accomplished anything noteworthy....if you cannot best your adversary at their highest performance level.....you're still a loser, and will always be......seeking to reduce them to your level is just sour-grapes, and sinful envy.....it makes you less of a person, not that your are much to talk about now.
Do I think there needs to be some adjustments.....of course, are they ANYTHING like what comes from the bulk of the OWS protestors and their list's of demands......Hell no....
Well then, I guess you have not been paying attention.
no, it's you who is not paying attention....I am sure that inside your little sniveling bellyaching groups there is some level of unity...why wouldn't there be...you hope to live off the lives of others without contributing yourself......you will fail, the only question is, will you fail in this system, or will you fail in the bloody anarchy that succeeds the fall of this system, and I assure you, with the civil society degraded, and the boundaries of civil discourse terminated...there are MANY who will deliver to you the just reward of your demand for their property......I hope it doesn't come to that, but...in the event that is does, you and the rest of the weak and whining OWS crowd will be insects under their boot heels...and will be dispatched as quickly and effortlessly......
That's the protection that the civil society you complain so much about affords you....
Yep thanks for the confirmation slammersworldisback .
If anyone had any doubts before. You have put them to rest nicely.
So go ahead with your blind marching, your support of the criminal/corrupt/greedy.
You only advertise the necessity and correctness of the Occupy & 99% movements.
HAHAHA.....yeah, if you say so. You support larger and more onerous government......and yet you claim to protest criminal/corrupt/greedy behavior.....there's nothing more humorous than that.....I laugh out-loud at your ignorance and foolishness......
No not larger government. Just the Government doing what it is supposed to be doing.
You Know - Working for "THE PEOPLE"
Which people "you" might ask?
I would state clearly "The People" that form this nation that form this country that form this government.
Remember? The government "OF" The People "BY" The People "FOR" The People!!!!!!!!!!!!!
yep...I know all about it, but...the framers weren't talking about the unproductive, ineffective, or the incompetent........they were talking about those who contributed and participated in society....not the ne'er-do-wells, or "self-entitled". Try contributing to the greater society, something other than attempting to force others to support you...
Those who own companies, employ people, and produce products are "The People" too.....with all your bluster, OWS hasn't contributed one fraction of a fraction what the WORST companies, banks, and/or executives have contributed....all you do is expect others to come to your aid...because you feel you have a "right" to the moments others have spent earning their livings, despite your refusal to do what's necessary to earn your own....
DKAtoday obviously still lives at home with his mother. Poor thing :-)
Wow...that is an amazing assumption. I wish I were selling T shirts..it was just an example of the image. Relevance: never give up no matter how big your opponent. I can't believe I actually had to explain that image.
I actually didn't give it time to load - I'm on dial-up.
Unlike Leonidas and his 300, I don't see how a mouse has any hope of victory, not even in death.
To an eagle, a mouse is simply dinner.
Unless of course, the mouse is rabid, in which case there is no pleasure to be had by the mouse, because whatever capacity to experience the pleasure of good planning may have previously existed is clearly gone, taken by disease . . . .
Please oh please take up arms. Please! I need a good laugh. An Asian LA gang of five would kick OWS's ass, ha!
Hey, psst, robin, your mother is calling.
It's time for your medication.
Shower, cut your hair, shave and join the 21st century. You look like a dead old fucktard. But you know that and are fucktard proud!
. . . stinky . . .
Proud Fucktard, Fetch my latte.
Don't you Have some World of Warcraft to play or something?
What the he'll is that? Where do you fucks come up with this crap? You can't make you losers up. Thanks for the greatest reality fun I've ever had. I feel like I should have to pay for this entertainment! Was meatcock taken?
Shut your face, pussy.
Please keep it going. You losers make me laugh. Ha ha ha ha ha ha
Hahahaha, Shut your face, pussy.
Meatcock, do you wear a bikini or a one piece?
A monitory wager? hahahaha fat dumb redneck.
Do you prefer tampons or pads?
A monitory wager? hahahaha fat dumb redneck.
Do you mind the occasional finger fuck? Or you just want the whole salami all the time?
A monitory wager? hahahaha fat dumb redneck.
ZenDog are you recommencing the use of arms. If so , we need to know where you live- and will you be home say at 2am.
What I wrote speaks for itself - is isn't my fault if you can't read English.
YEah, I'll be home at 2am
one piece of advice
.
.
dont' miss
Consumable wealth for living expenditures must be limited. The richest person can consume only 20 times the poorest. Wealth which is spend for consumption should be redistributed. Bill Gates, Obama can only consume 20X when a janitor consumes 2X, safety net is 1X which is enough for shelter, food, health, education. If you want more than that, want a car, and travelling, you should be working to earn more than 1X, anybody who can work should get at least 2X which can lead to home ownership if spend wisely. Safety net, 1X, should allow people to grow intellectually so they can still give back to society however they like. Everybody owes to society all the time. Personal consumption can not go over 20X, because if you build a mansion, you rule, and we are no longer equal politically. Your wealth and economic power will give you connections and political power. Society invests in social, economic, politic infrastructure, create more social and humane contract for society. Bill Gates can spend 20X a year, and can have as much investment money as possible. Nobody can have a chunk of this world, the world is holly and precious. The most productive, talented and hard worker can earn 20X max, when a burger guy earns 2X, and unfortunate can have safety net of X. People do science and contribute to society based on love for humanity, justice, truth, knowledge. The system is same because Bill Gates can have unlimited resources but can only consume 20X, so his home is maximum 20 times larger than a burger guy's home. We owe our lives to every living creature who existed, suffered through time through existence, we owe ourselves to other human being who creates the gene pool, the society and the possibility of existence of us. We owe our lives to all other people around the world. We can not become kings and queens through corrupt organizations such as states. States are for to level the field, to bring justice and equality. State can not become center of power. It will be corrupted. One simple legislation can bring you this new world which will transform your lives and the world. Economic system will be more productive. What do you say?
I say that is one long paragraph, and I need glasses.
It is worth reading. Demand the X rule and we are done!
Sounds good (the idea, your grammar could be better lol). Actually sounds very good, though I have to ask: would these legislatures be made up of the people or just delegates? I'd like to see the people at the forefront of their political lives. Politicians and other representatives have been such a disappointment the last few decades that I would rather trust the people than representatives making decisions behind the scenes.
I say wow. Your a fucktard! You must flip burgers. Be dumber than dirt. The only thing going for you is your jealous rant. Stupid dumbass!
Robinhood2012, don't talk to people that way.
Get the guns well you can obama is hell bent on getting them even killing a boarder patrol agent. Lets hope we don't have to use it the fact that most of all the military campaign money goes to Ron Lawl is a good sign. That means they know whats up.
you don't make any sense.
Fast and Furious began under Bush.
After the election rumor was Obama was going to ban weapons - the price of ammo went through the roof. Fools.
Who benefited? Gun and ammo dealers and manufacturers . . . one percent repelicans
fuckin liars and theives
It was called operation gun walker under bush and continue with obama as fast and furious headed by eric holder. Who was hand pick by obama know your facts.
I don't care what it was called - you can't blame Holder for a program with no end game when it was already up and running when he arrived.
Now there's at least one federal agent dead.
It's abundantly clear that U.S. arms manufacturers benefit handsomely from the war on drugs,
and consumer demand remains constant.
And somehow this is all Holders fault . . . .
right
Yes you can because he was caught lying saying he didn't know and their secret memos admit they were going to try to use this to blame the 2nd amendment. CBS news has reported on this. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-57338546-10391695/documents-atf-used-fast-and-furious-to-make-the-case-for-gun-regulations/
Who benefited? Gun and ammo dealers and manufacturers . . . one percent repelicans//////////////////////////////////////Are you calling just the Rep as the 1%'s??? if you are then you are delusional. Obama is protecting the 1%'s wealth because he needs their votes, yet you goons have your heads stuck up his azz.
Actually I seem to hold the minority opinion around here regarding the President. I do plan to vote for him.
And that whole thing about the President banning guns was a repelican rumor, not unlike the claims he is a Muslim, born in Africa . .. ..
utter fucking nonsense - we've had enough lies!
If we examine the current debate in the house right now, the question is:
The Senate passed a measure that says yes, and in addition they have said unemployment will be extended by two months.
Tea Party Repelicans in the house say they will not sign, they want the Senate to return and devise a bill that covers unemployment for the rest of the year -
with the intent of taking money from other social programs to do it.
They steadfastly refuse to end Bushite tax breaks
They steadfastly refuse to end Corporate Welfare
They even continue to deny Global Warming
the Repelican Party is DONE
Global warming has been debunked and is proven to be a fraud. Is there pollution?? yes indeed, but no Global warming. Obama does not want to end the tax breaks either!! why?? The main reason is because he "needs" their votes to get his useless ass elected again. The Dems have controlled the house since 2007 and the economy has been going down hill ever since. I am not a rep or dem but an independent. If you backtrack through the past years you will see that this mess started while Clinton was in office.
you fuckin clowns are no more credible than those who claimed nicotine was good for you or that the earch is flat
and with these kinds of lies so prevalent among the public it is no wonder people don't know what to believe any more -
next you'll be saying the economic collapse was caused by aliens and therefor no bankers need go to jail . . .
Thank you for saying this.
I do try
Do a search in google sometime and you will see that global warming "fraud or debunked" severely outweigh the support of it. I live in Michigan and I have noticed the past several years that the temp has taken longer to rise in the spring compared to the past. For instance this past Summer, in July it was still very cool in the high 40's to low 50's. But the Global warming goons say that Global warming has a reverse effect on the weather to. hahahhaha poor Al Gore, the loser
really? I don't live in Michigan. I live in Vermont - and because we are seeing just the opposite of your own eye witness report I suspect you are a liar.
A fraud.
You could take a trip to Glacier National Park if you like.
I don't give a shit either way.
the repelican party has lied
they have lied about global warming
they continue to lie
the proof is right outside every single American window
they have lied
they continue to lie
and they are done
the repelican Party is DONE
Here is a an article for all you pro Global warming loons http://climatedepot.com/a/2165/Climate-Fear-Promoters-Try-to-Spin-Record-Cold-and-Snow-Global-warming-made-it-less-cool
I'm sure - you can google and find most anything.
Most of the deniers are paid for by the industry - just like tobacco paid scientists to lie before them.
their day is coming.
None of that changes what I am seeing right outside my window, nor the fact that there are 5 or 6 sovereign nations squabbling over mineral rights and control over the North West Passage.
Both parties lie. Nancy piglosi, Harry Reid are also scum. You have your opinion on Global warming and I have mine. I personally think someone should take Gore to the North Pole and hang him by his nutsack and check on him about every twenty years or so. He can stay up there and watch the ice caps "not melt" What you need to do is quit watching "Mr Ed and Chris Matthews"
You should watch Ice Road Truckers -
while it does glorify the transportation industry, and hence, our addiction to fossil fuels, at the same time, it documents that the ice road season is actually getting shorter.
Just another unintended consequence I guess . . .
Then explain "why" it is getting cooler in Mich. I am not lying about it and it is really happening. At times I wish there was such a thing as Global warming because I am sick of the cold.
It most likely may have to do with the way the jet stream is positioned.
The jet stream moves around, and as it does it enables cold air from up north to infiltrate south - or it keeps it bottled up.
Texass has seen snow lately - an unusual aberration. It's a result of the instability in a changing climate. Drought in Texass remains the trend.
All of that is in line with the forecasts.
All of us as you know are facing a much greater problem than Global warming. Global depression
Today maybe.
The solution to it remains the same as for global warming. it's quite simple really.
End the corruption of Congress.
To do that we must get at the corrupt - and that currently begins with both savings and investment bankers.
Undercut their influence on Congress, demand they be held accountable.
That will weaken them and make their allies nervous.
Their principle allies tend to be repelican - note the Norquist Tax Pledge - and don't think for a moment that pledge benefits the average tax payer. Not when we are 15 billion in debt.
the tea party would have average tax payers bear the entire burden.
Once the politicos become sufficiently nervous that they begin changing their behavior - we will be able to point out their lies and their hypocrisies with greater detail, and that will compound their nervousness -
the more nervous they appear, the less electable they become -
and representatives then get elected to Congress who are more amenable to the will of the people.
That gets us to a new Constitutional Amendment and the end of corporate personhood as it is today, and campaign finance reform takes place.
Lobbyists then find themselves boxed out of policy decisions and get to join the ranks of the unemployed.
Like I mentioned before I am an independent. I do agree with some things the OWS are doing and also agree on some things the Tea Party is doing The Country is divided and it is mainly due to political affiliation. Congress loves it when we are going back and fourth with each other because that makes it easier for them to screw us. The majority of politicians do not care about us at all and are only looking out for their own welfare. We as taxpayers (that pay these parasites) should be allowed to govern how much they should be paid, rather than them doing it. The majority of congress should be put out to pasture and get some fresh ideas in there. I also think that both parties are playing us. Have you noticed lately when an issue comes up for vote that it is taken right down to the wire?? It seems like the Gov is trying to make us more dependent on them, like we cannot survive without them or something. One thing is for certain though is if "We the people of the United States" do not all join together as "one" and go after all the corruptness in the Gov, etc, then nothing will ever get done.
If you have enough support this option is plausible. I think Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Farc rebels, Chechnya, and Mexico, have all proven that Guerillas cannot be defeated with conventional tactics. Problem not enough people are pissed off enough. You would need upwards of 60% of the population and half of the military supporting you for such an option to work. Lets just stick to spreading information and avoiding lies for before we talk about such things.
[Removed]
hear hear
Like you said this would only be done if all else failed. There is also another consideration we must make. This could only work if you could get the people to believe in us. I too am willing to give my life for equality and freedom. We must however focus on the expansion of the movement first, we must bring the people together into a united front. This united front must gather power first then it will decide what course it will take. One other important aspect of this is that we need leaders and be careful that this movement does not become some paramilitary group with military leaders transforming the movement into a dictatorship. The movement is the people.
Agreed. and once we clearly understand what we want as a movement, people will be drawn to us. Once we reach a critical mass in terms of the expression of public opinion - and I differentiate between simple public opinion and the vocal expression of it because we have seen repelicans repeatedly claim they have a mandate from the people when polls clearly indicate otherwise . . .
but once we reach that point of critical mass, the political system will bend to our will, and no violence will be necessary.
Here's what I want:
No downsizing the Postal Service
No KeyStone Pipeline
two step approach to the issue of national debt:
short term: end bushite tax breaks and corporate welfare
end debate over entitlements I'm sick of hearing about it as if it were dirty. Forget privatization of social security and just shoot the next bastard who suggests otherwise [speaking for myself of course.]
public health care - forget the option part.
We need an energy policy uninfluenced by fossil fuel industry, one that takes into account the fact of global warming, and institutes a NASA like approach to solving both our need for energy and the need to reduce atmospheric carbon
No to internet censorship in any form
If they engaged in fraud - they see the judge, and the sentencing better be in line with the crime, and had better include serious restitution
End the foreclosures.
End the philosophy of a deregulated economic system - from the Universities to the policy makers
End corporate personhood
campaign finance reform - Sanders Amendment:
Sanders Proposed Constitutional Amendment:
Sanders Petition here:
Full amendment PDF:
end the two party political system
quit fucking around with the issue of terrorism - it's a crime, unless you happen to catch them on an actual battlefield - and if it is a crime, treat them in accordance with our criminal laws. No more indefinite detention
Close Gitmo - we've got large pens practically empty in the mid west. I'm sure they can handle it. Stop fucking around.
Amended: we need to provide stiff and compelling sanction to corporations that engage in disinformation - as with the tobacco industry before and the fossil fuel industry now [and for the past 10-20 years]
If we can't accomplish these things, the federal government will lose all credibility with the people.
There ya have it, my want list. I may add to it. We'll see.
How does the government end the two party system? As it is right now, the parties aren't established in any law or constitutional amendment. The two parties are a reality because whenever another party pops up, it takes votes away from one of the big two - and they have to consolidate to recover those votes.
Even if the Government established 4 or 5 or 6 parties and required all politicians to sign up for one - in the end you would probably still end up with 2 main parties.
Well I dunno, but the repelican party is DONE
All on the basis of their own behavior.
Stalling on passage of unemployment benefit extensions
failure to end bushite tax breaks
global warming denials
the repelican party is DONE
Bringing back work to the USA would also be interesting, Subsidize American companies that provide American people with jobs and tax heavily products that come from outside the country. If they say no, kick them out.
I don't know enough about either trade policy or economics to advocate something there. But I have seen what appear to be interesting ideas in that direction.
There has to be a way to level the playing field for the American worker.
I think to be fair to the American worker we should at least bring back 80% of what they sent to the 3rd world countries.
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I've rarely seen such a retarded list of demands.....are you sure you don't want a rubber chicken and a football helmet filled with cottage cheese?
You are clearly delusional....
most folks like my list.
you don't like my list
why don't you like my list
my list addresses many of the things most people agree are fucked up with this country
maybe you don't like my list because you aren't from my country
maybe your just plain unAmerican
fucking scumbags
right.....your demands are largely un-american......
and most of you OWS tards are fucking scumbags
oh, I dunno
Burlington Electric is owned by the City of Burlington [Vermont]. They have the cheapest electric rates in the state. Costs elsewhere run 2 and 3 times as much.
That's a big fucking margin.
Imagine what businesses could do with that kind of savings.
just imagine!
piss of
nimrod
piss of nimrod? is that your favorite beverage.....or are you a typical ignorant ass.....
Tell me, how many customers does Burlington Electric service, do they pay the same tax rates and are they subject to the same regulations as a private energy company?.....who footed the bill for the costs of power plant construction? Who maintains the lines?.....
There are 20 US cities that have larger populations than your whole state...hahaha, just like the idiots that compare the social democracies of far norther Europe to the US....your scale is off by several positions.....
I have a generator in my basement, I can provide my own electricity cheaper than I can get it through my meter.....maybe I should pretend that is comparable to the energy needs of my entire state....in cost comparison...huh?
Burlington Electric - owned by the City for the last 100 years.
and that's
piss off
nimrod
Wood and Gas fired generation, serving less than 20,000 customers.....that's a monster!
Do you suppose the McNeil Station will survive the new EPA regulations? How much will it cost to upgrade? How do you feel about the natural gas usage considering the practices of that industry?.....and what if the costs of wood chips rise?
Again, try to consider scale when coming up with an example......50 megawatts...WOW...hahaha
and the data disputes your 2 to 3 times higher rates in the rest of the state...looks more like about 24% cheaper....and only for those less than 20,000 customers......your nonsense doesn't wash...
Rates vary around the state - and over time. I used to live in Burlington, and paid about $30 / month.
My mother paid about $150 to another utility.
I guess the point is whether it's $7.50 a month in savings, or $120.oo / month in savings, doesn't really matter - what matters is the consistency of the fact of
The public option is cheaper
And if it can work for a 50 megawatt plant, there is no reason it can't be scaled up.
I wonder - why do you find the idea so offensive
Do you not benefit from the roads, bridges, the police and fire services?
Perhaps you are one of those fools who would see all of these secured in private hands
you can't "Scale up" the use of waste wood, unless you want to start cutting down trees to generate electricity, even then....the price goes up, so the savings is a fallacious point beyond the specific example.......
The KWH rates of the various electric companies in VT are available.....the final bill amount isn't representative of the difference......what were the usage levels of you and your mother?
I didn't mean we should scale up electrical generation using wood pulp. We probably need to come up with a comprehensive assessment of forest management based on the idea that trees do concentrate carbon, removing it from the atmosphere, and they do so at different rates - both by species and during their life cycle.
We should be looking at forest management that will increase carbon sequestration within the forest before we consider increasing or decreasing the annual harvest.
What I meant was the economic model, that of public ownership, should be scalable.
the economic model is determined by the fuel source.....Burlington is benefiting from a VERY inexpensive specific fuel source, that cannot be scaled......THAT is the point..
obviously not - because obviously hydro electric doesn't exist, it is a figment, and the only solution is coal coal coal clean dirty coal . . .
but if I need one I'll be sure to use yours -
so you plan to dam up rivers and destroy the ecosystems of the riversides to generate your electricity?
and, hydro electric is another localized example.....it's not enough, you really should look into the data and facts of things before vomiting up your liberal nonsense....
I think we should generate electricity by putting you OWS'er's on treadmills.......you obviously haven't got much else to do, and are found of pointless pursuit, and maybe it would shape the puny asses up, and thin down the fatso's.....
well duh
water is pretty cheap too,
ain't it?
Water?
Do you HAVE a point?
right right but we know what the effects of burning coal and uranium are, don't we . . .
you pointy headed little freak
wind
the wind is free, aint it?
you pointy headed little freak
2.3% of generation in 2010......and wind/solar/hydroelectric/geothermal....aren't "free", the apparatuses, equipment, and framework required to harness them are not free.... and the effects are unknown...
try again...
Yes I do I plan . . .
i guess you never heard of the Hoover Dam
have ya
ya pointy headed little freak
Electrical use in the US is 3884 billion Kilowatt hours, per year (2010 figures) Hoover Dam produces 4 billion Kilowatt-hours per year......
We only need 971 Hoover Dam's to meet last years electric needs....better not add electric cars though...
You want to try again.......stupid
as far as carbon emissions, that proven fairy tail is proven to be fabricated, elaborate nonsense....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EewGMBOB4Gg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w
We are controlled by governments who are manipulated like putty by large corporations to create laws and policies to continue to make them filthy rich. Individually we are just little cogs in a large machine, but united we are a force to be reckoned with. Unite the clans and we can achieve something great.
Check out my idea for a United World Militia at http://www.indiegogo.com/United-World-Militia to fight the injustice around the world.
yeah-ya
see above
ZenDog, are you a COINTELPRO plant? Note to self: read any comment by ZenDog with suspicion of his mal-intent.
Why would high Intelligence agencies be interested in common citizens unless they, themselves are corrupt? And by corrupt, I mean they are above the law. As long as they continue carry out their missions without fail, then they are immune to any laws just by flashing some Federal badges and literally fabricating authority out of nothingness. If they really wanted to root out all the bad apples in society they would be going after the people who actually have the power to pull all these strings (which is themselves). And that wouldn't make any sense...But maybe that is what they want. Is to create a state in which everybody is so paranoid that we end up killing each off.
I say we trust one true authority, and we all know who that is.
Radicalized elements exist within our society. Someone even left a post indicating they were prepared to take up arms and die if need be. It is not my fault such elements exist, OWS is not responsible for those radicalized elements that already exist.
That we may find them among us is a fact we must be prepared for, and we must also understand that throughout history they have indeed had their place - once all other avenues at redress of grievances have been exhausted.
Why? Do I look like a COINTELPRO plant to you?
http://zendogblog.net/preface.htm
http://teebeedee.ning.com/profiles/blog/list?tag=american
I can't really decide if that's a slap - or a compliment.
In either case, it doesn't answer the question, does it.
How about a poem, one I have filed under Zen for some reason - must be because of the mood I was in when I wrote it . . .
.
Are you lost
in a vast wilderness
of space?
.
Make a mark
upon any blank wall
and take small comfort:
.
always someone comes behind
just like you.
You are not alone.
© D. Winter
December 17, 2007
http://zendogblog.net/poems/mark.htm
.
Here's another, you won't find it on my website - I haven't posted it there. But you can find it on the link you posted above:
Jules
She was kinda cute, and kinda young,
and no one knew she kept a pistol
in her purse. She only used it once.
.
So I wonder: Was she the Master
of her own Domain?
Upon this point we could now dispute . . .
.
I would see her often at the slams
come Friday nite, and often she would win,
way back in nineteen ninety-nine.
.
She would feign with innocence,
thinly veil a smile and flirt
with mystery . . .
.
When she got the news, she did not fight,
she simply took control. "Cancer" she was told,
was why she could not eat.
.
So I wonder: Was she the Master
of her own Domain?
Upon this point we could now dispute . . .
.
Would she have sought to overcome
had she not learned the Great Distrust
within Domain?
.
No one knew she kept a pistol
in her purse. Yet they said so
passing by.
.
She only used it once.
.
© D. Winter
June 19, 2008
http://teebeedee.ning.com/profiles/blogs/jules-1
.
As you can tell I haven't had a chance to really look at the mark-up, but I will.
is this post hidden?
Unfortunately there are those who just look at post reply s rather than reading the originating post. It's lazy, unproductive, leading to out of context rebuttal as well as inaccurate/misleading quotes. Generally fostering misinformation. People please take the time to read a post prior to jumping into a rebuttal. Taking things out of context is helpful to no-one.
Yeah - I noticed something like that going on. It's written in plain English.
whatever.
Its also a good tactic of attack for those trying to sow dissension and flare tempers by taking things out of context, spread misinformation/disinformation.
COINTELPRO methods.
yeah-ya.
fuck'em
I said what I said, I'll stand by it.
They can kiss my ass,
or shoot me.
And to this point in time in this country it is your absolute right to express/share your thoughts/beliefs.
Just out of curiosity - who resurrected this post?
Not that I mind, I'm just nosy . . .
edit:
ah, this guy
Unite the clans he said later - that's a line from Brave Heart. I like that movie. Not sure what the link is about.
It's nice to see someone looking through old posts and taking the time to put in a reply.
If you took arms you would be easily killed by police, National Guard and army. Which means that the argument of the NRA that arms are necessary to throw down an oppressive government are a joke. The Patriot Act has converted the Consitution into toilet paper but only massive peaceful resistence and massive protests can yield results. Most Americans are brainwashed by mainstream media, so it is necessary to wake them up with street demonstrations and information. It is a knowledge revolution that is needed, not an armed revolution.
In case you don't read the rest of the comments -
throughout America there are elements that have been radicalized - whether my nature or by man. Some of them will most naturally attempt to express what they feel and believe to be true through us. Some of them already have.
There will most certainly be provocateurs as well. We cannot hide from such facts, any more than we can hide from the reality that empires have grown within our nation and within our borders, empires that are beholden to nothing other than the accumulation of wealth, of profit. Toward that end they are designed specifically to exploit resources; human, economic, and natural.
The challenges we face should not be underestimated.
We must find within ourselves a resolve sufficient to meet those challenges. Only a clear examination of where we are and what we face will provide such a resolve.
Make no mistake.
We will prevail.
That's intersting. Didn't Britain have an Army in America that out forefathers were able to defeat with their weapons? I think it happened in China, Russia, France, Briatin, Spain, Lybia, Saudi Arabia, Mexico...
I think history shows that guns in the hands of private citizeens can defeat the government though since I am not a fan of this movenment and niether are most member of the NRA, I don't think that would be the wise idea to take up arms
You are right, there have been many successful armed revolts in history, but mostly by people starving, too desperate, but the situation is different in the US now. There have been no armed revolts in the US since it was created besides the civil war, which again proves the constitutional argument of the NRA is just a justification to make money with the most permissive arms laws in the world which of course result in one of the highest crime rates and jailed population in the world. Unfortunately most Americans find all this and death sentences ok.
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Consider the "mechanism" promoted by White House website sponsored petition: PUBLIC VOTE on the COMPETING FINAL DEMOCRATIC vs FINAL REPUBLICAN vs INDEPENDENT VERSIONS of a CONGRESSIONAL BILL. http://wh.gov/bhC For example, both the Republican and Democratic parties claim to have tax code and healthcare reform plans. Fine, put them in writing. Here the media polls and media talk shows would have something real to talk about before submitting the competing versions to the final decision-making responsibility of We the People.
OWS protesters could act on this SIGNING STATEMENT demanding a PUBLIC VOTE OPTION be incorporated as a new legislative continuing JOINT RESOLUTION. Binding on Congress itself to pass along the public majority winning version of a bill to the President. The legislative precedent being no legal difference between a joint resolution and a bill.
White House rules are Petitions receiving 25,000 votes in 30 days, are referred to evaluation followed by official White House statement. PETITIONS CANNOT BE SEARCHED ON WHITE HOUSE WEBSITE UNTIL IT GETS 150 VOTES. This link, same as above, is only way to initiate petition: http://wh.gov/bhC
Not sure how a PUBLIC VOTE OPTION would work? Sign the petition and find out.
And it has also been said that those who plot the violent overthrow of the government are guilty of treason.
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Firstly, has anyone counted the guns lately, and who has them? The left are largely unarmed because we have believed in civilisation. Are we to give up that belief now, and if so, who will that benefit? Will it benefit us, in the creation of a better world to add carnage to chaos? And what about nuclear weapons?
Hey, I have an idea. Before we get out the guns and doom ourselves to endless hell with no way out - why not educate ourselves about the voting records of our representitives and vote based on that. Just vote for the best cantidate, or the opposition candidate you have never heard of, in a worst case senario, as a protest vote, or just get the signatures and run youself. People are so fed up you might just win.
Let's start there and move forward to build a future for our children, rather than leave the world a smoking pile of cinders for them to inherit.
"First we must articulate our grievances" I said.
and hopefully, having done that in a forceful and forthright manner, armed revolution will not be necessary.
I sure has hell hope so, cause their's 300,000,000 people, probably twice that many guns and 5,000 nuclear weapons in this country. Ever heard of 'the war to end all wars?" That really would be the war to end all wars.
". . . our system of government does provide mechanisms that should make such an eventuality unnecessary. "
this statement is either true or it is not.
We will test it and see.
the current state of both our economy and our political infrastructure leave us no choice.
Agreed, the current situation is a test of the flexibility of our system, and even more so of the depth of our distrust of one another. I hope we all find some way to evolve. Hatred and fear, especially fear are the triggers to mayhem, and should be avoided.
there does seem to be no shortage of fear, doesn't there.
Somehow, our revolution must take place in the mind. It is something never done before, but I still do believe possible. The truth is really our only gun, our ability to speak it, and speak it clearly, our only sword. There is no other way to make positive change now -simply no other way al all. That fact is only weakness if we are weak, it is only strength if we are strong.
ZenDog i hope your house dosent get raided by the military for this post!
It's been up a while, I think I'm safe. Besides, I advocated following the Declaration of Independence - I doubt the military will have a problem with it.
Homeland Security may be another issue. They've probably already shown up with a sneek'n'peek - I'm sure they're full of bushite anywayz . . . so it seems reasonable.
I have been keeping an eye on my dirty laundry piled on the floor - not sure if any of it has moved in the last month or not.
Maybe I should do the laundry - I bet that would confuse the shit out ah them . . . I mean, if they've been actively tracking the habits of my dirty laundry . . .
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revolution? watch this ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amNO_QJzaQ8
i'm not trying to govern this thing, i'm just trying to meet smart people, come up with ideas, and have fun at the diner afterwards. and i suggest you do the same thing.
this should be fun.
I think the idea is: -find people you like -talk to them in a normal way -find love and happiness and joy -laugh -do it again
I believe the best way to work is in small communities of people who have the same goals/roughly the same view of the world. That's just how it is. So maybe instead of working groups, we have little groups of friends who just get together every day and work on what they want to work on? Or little groups within the working groups?
dont worry about your working group, worry about your friends.
this thing is like looking through the looking glass, it doesn't make any sense and it's constantly changing. and that's how it should be.
it's just about hanging out with no parents, no police, no mean boss, no teachers, i know this sounds juvenile but it's just about FUN and RESTING.
You obviously didn't hear Cantor on 60 Minutes last night did you.
Cantor's Plan:
Incremental Progress
reduce government spending
reduce taxes
no plan to pay down the debt
In other words - break it all and run
the bastards
The crux of our many problems is a corrupt banking system that serves the 1% at the expense of the 99%. To redress that, we need a banking system that serves the 99%.
Occupy San Francisco has now endorsed a plan aimed at doing just that. In a December 1 Wall Street Journal article titled “Occupy Shocker: A Realistic, Actionable Idea,” David Weidner writes:
Protesters in the Bay Area, especially Occupy San Francisco, have something their East Coast neighbors don't: a realistic plan aimed at the heart of banks. The idea could be expanded nationwide to send a message to a compromised Washington and the financial industry.
It's called a municipal bank. Simply put, it would transfer the City of San Francisco's bank accounts—about $2 billion now spread between such banks as Bank of America Corp., UnionBanCal Corp. and Wells Fargo & Co.—into a public bank. That bank would use small local banks to lend to the community.
The public bank concept is not new. It has been proposed before in San Francisco and has a successful 90-year track record in North Dakota. Weidner notes that the state-owned Bank of North Dakota earned taxpayers more than $61 million last year and reported a profit of $57 million in 2008, when Bank of America had a $1.2 billion net loss. The San Francisco bank proposal is sponsored by city supervisor John Avalos, who has been thinking about a municipal bank for several years.
Weidner calls the proposal “the boldest institutional stroke yet against banks targeted by the Occupy movement.”
http://www.webofdebt.com/articles/the_way.php
that is simply brilliant
I agree - this is a solution - it would work right now !
Tracy Loew • usatoday.com • December 25, 2011
Spurred by the recession, bank bailouts and the difficulty consumers are having getting loans, members of the Occupy movement and others are stepping up calls for a public banking option.
North Dakota currently has the nation’s only state-run bank. Supporters point out that the state is the only one to have had a budget surplus since the economic crisis began, and has an unemployment rate below 4%.
“People are becoming more aware that our existing banking system isn’t serving us,” said Ellen Brown, one of the founders of the Public Banking Institute, a non-profit formed in January to advocate for public banking.
Read article here http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/banking/story/2011-12-23/public-banks/52233790/1
http://publicbanking.wordpress.com/
I know it works with the electric company - Burlington Electric has been publicly owned for 100 years.
I think it's a great idea.
solutions :)
Remember, if you are participating in the system, paying taxes, etc, you are already being employed in violent acts on behalf of the State. It may indeed be more moral to engage in violence on behalf of the principles of Mankind.
Targets should be strategic, for maximum effectiveness. But may be better to target financial system, use resonance "bombs", attached to structural members and coordinating with wifi.
Not staunchly advocating violence, but those who do not act on their pain, will turn their pain inward, hence the rise of addiction problems at occupy. Those who do not channel their pain into strategic counter-violence deserve the slow death they will inevitably get. The body is violent, without questions or platitudes to anything which threatens the whole. Remember that.
you are just babbling. There has been no formal research done, and hasn't even been time to conduct such research - the movement is way too young.
you don't even know what you are talking about.
Take up arms?!? This coming from the group that stands incredulous, unable to wrap it's collective head around the fact that the mighty act and incredible sacrifice of camping has not caused a revolution? This 'movement' is peopled almost exclusively by those who are willing to do nothing more than sit on their asses until it's time to hand out the drum circle schedule. This is the funniest thing to date in this amusement park of a forum! Thanks for the laugh!
It has been said, and it continues to be said. People are still saying it.
What I said was that there is a distinct path laid out by the Declaration of Independence - and that this path must be followed before we begin serious consideration of
Very dramatic. It's all in the punctuation.
Violent revolution is going to take more than a few thousand hippie-wanna-be's and former hippies trying to relive their glory days of when a nickel of pot was actually 5 bucks. That's why the '99%' thing is so laughable. The actual numbers involved in the so-called 'movement' are not so much 99% and more like 0.000002%. That revolution will be over the same afternoon it starts.
you keep dreaming that dream
Don't be too surprised when you wake up to find it's a brave new world . . .
Yeah, dreaming. You'd know.
time will certainly tell won't it.
Did you see Cantor on 60 Minutes this evening?
You should. You should watch what he has to say.
incremental progress he called it.
That's right.
Reduce government spending
reduce taxes
and provide no means to pay down the debt
that rotten bastard is insane.
and he is fucking typical
And now you're off-topic.
yeah
do you have a point?
or does the truth just hurt
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"Founding fathers would already be shooting"
That was the old shoot now and ask questions later days !
We're supposed to have more brains than that and have evolved ; at least most of us !
I saw it on a sign at OWS, thought it was pretty funny.
And I would say the people are going backwards, not forwards, in terms of evolving.
They , not us !
We have evolved to a higher standard and should present ourselves as such !
WITH GUNS IN HANDS !
read the declaration of independence, they made clear what conditions must be met before anyone begins shooting anyone else.
I saw it on a sign, thought is was funny. But Im pretty sure that a lot fo these situations we are in would be translated by them to give it the ol go ahead.
I don't think so. Read the history - they put up with several decades of bullshit from the crown before they got organized, and they acknowledged as much in the Declaration.
[Deleted]
This goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway.
You are a moron.
Woooooo.
Scare tactics Much???????????
Another COINTELPRO strategy!
check the date, fool - this has been up awhile. And I got a newsflash for ya - a lot of us already have been arrested. More of us plan on getting arrested.
So, if you don't get your free shit you want to start killing some folks?
no, not at all.
What I am saying is this:
some people suggest we take up arms
The Declaration of Independence lays out a clear path
First we must articulate our grievances
both to ourselves and to the rest of humanity, that all attempts at finding a political solution have been completely exhausted.
Only then is it reasonable, logical, that we take up arms.
We aren't there yet, and in fact it is unlikely that we will get to that point.
It's all written in English - honestly, I don't understand the confusion.
It is hard to push for a political solution when politics are so ineffectual. Solve one problem through political means, and it seems ten more are created. There has got to be a better way...
I don't think your post was confusing at all. Quite clear actually, if certain unarticulated demands are not met in an unspecified amount of time then various undetermined people may, or may not take up unidentified arms and do something as yet unstated. Is that about it?
um, geez, um, ah . . .
is that what I wrote?
I don't think it is, I think what I wrote is fairly clear.
As far as unarticulated demands go, I can't speak for the movement as a whole, but here is my list.
As for the rest of your insinuation, I think I have addressed it thoroughly throughout this entire thread.
I read your list, pretty much standard box stock lefty stuff, free shit and absolute control over the productive people in society. Actually, it was kind of refreshing to read your list, you liberals sound almost rational compared to the dead ender anarchist drivel that has taken over this site.
what - you think closing gitmo is free?
you think standing on principle in the face of terror is . . . what? . . . . easy?
it takes balls
got any?
My reference to free shit is the liberal lust for other people to pay for their shit. What do Gitmo, principals and balls have to do with this conversation?
Ah, I see.
they're on the list.
Going after the corrupt bankers and politicians is fine, they caused this, they deserve to pay and pay dearly. Come and try to take away what I earned for my family and I'll kill you without warning or hesitation myself. Do you think you can pull the trigger? I know I can, I've seen a lot of people die, a few more won't affect my sleep....
Good luck with that. The difference between now and then is that our army is just a smidgen bigger now and has moved beyond cannon balls.
You will have to take up arms if the intent is to steal assets from those who earned them in a lame attempt to spread the wealth.
I worked for my home, you probably didn't and went on a shopping spree - suck it up.
You obviously need a bit more practice with remedial English. Here, let me help:
See Carl.
See Carl RUN.
I love your argument.
Oh wait, there wasn't any.
You lose.
None was needed. YOu obviously can't read.
And you lose again.
I probably shouldn't tease retards.... LOL
That's alright, I understand. You are afraid. Rather than confront your fear and proceed with an examination of the practical realities that not only this movement, but all of America, faces today, you choose to cling to that fear, and allow it to control every aspect of your life.
Such feelings of abject helpless push you toward lame and senseless ridicule of all that you fear and do not understand.
I get it.
No worries.
Carry on.
Guess you're one of the 'tards who maxed out his HELOCs and is now crying for a bailout.
Darwin was right.
That's alright. Like I said, I completely understand. Please, keep wringing your hands if it makes you feel better.
I don't mind.
I will. It's deadbeats like yourself that give the human race a bad name.
Should I find you a link to some Reagan speeches?
Or Nixon? Will listening to the drone of Nixon help with that anxiety?
You could try prozac . . .
"If you think I'm going to let this moment pass, you would be wrong.
If you think I happen to be alone - again - you would be wrong."
Well then you will have to face the consequences of those that live for freedom. And if some like you suffer because they abused of their freedom, then so be it.
With Freedom comes responsibility. You learned that the hard way and are now seeking a free lunch by advocating an asset transfer. This will not be allowed to happen as the ones who worked hard have earned their assets. You have not.
Guess what - I don't want your assets.
Do you realize that only about one third of the price of a barrel of oil is what it actually costs to produce? If it climbs much higher than it is today, Friday, November 12, 2011, it will be more like one quarter. I'm sure you have noticed that the price of a barrel has in fact been higher.
Would you care to consider banking fees? How about the sub-prime mess, and the massive instances of fraud that so often entailed? Perhaps you are one of a very few who have not been directly impacted.
If corporations do indeed have the right of free speech, as repelicans so often insist, and this despite any evidence that any corporation, anywhere in the world, has ever produced a tongue - then it stands to reason the entire people of this country will literally be nickle and dimed into a state of abject servitude - and this at the hands of private industry.
With freedom comes responsibility you say. YET corporations are designed specifically to avoid any responsibility for the choices they make - and they spend vast sums on attorneys armed with legalese whose sole occupation is to obfuscate any and all facts that might lead to accountability.
You may not see any injustice in any of this - and yet there is so much more . . .
Remain as blind as you like. Your assets are your own. I care nothing about if or whether you chose to protect them at all.
I'll let my troll take over as you seek to rip me a new one PS: No, I'm not gay, but maybe the troll is!
LOL
I do have other commitments at the moment, so unfortunately I can't really stay to play just now -
I've been standing in opposition for a long long time.
If you think I'm going to let this moment pass, you would be wrong.
If you think I happen to be alone - again - you would be wrong.
you crazy guy you...
I'm not the original poster.
I have my own troll now!!!!
LOLOLOLOL
just stop being so harsh homie. we all have an interest in this. change minds, not insult them.
You said, 'Only then is it reasonable, logical, that we take up arms'. Never reasonable except in defense. Sorry if I misunderstood.
I also said:
Yet our system of government does provide mechanisms that should make such an eventuality unnecessary.
And this is true. Never the less, throughout America there are elements that have been radicalized - whether my nature or by man. Some of them will most naturally attempt to express what they feel and believe to be true through us. Some of them already have.
There will most certainly be provocateurs as well. We cannot hide from such facts, any more than we can hide from the reality that empires have grown within our nation and within our borders, empires that are beholden to nothing other than the accumulation of wealth, of profit. Toward that end they are designed specifically to exploit resources; human, economic, and natural.
The challenges we face should not be underestimated.
We must find within ourselves a resolve sufficient to meet those challenges. Only a clear examination of where we are and what we face will provide such a resolve.
Make no mistake.
We will prevail.
Libya was aided by America. Iran squelched their protesters. Tibet is hanging by Chinese silk threads and Syria is far from over. Even Egypt's revolt changed only the top guy. Same army in charge. Kent state was violence perpetrated against the students. Violence begets violence. Wrong direction zendog.
Did I advocate violence?
Perhaps you need corrective lenses, the better to see what is written, as well as that stark reality that is all around us.
I just did your wife. She needed it.
Perhaps you are more comfortable living in fear of whatever radicalized elements exist around us - that we may keep them isolated, and under the ever watchful eye and perhaps if that is the case then it may well be that you will be much better off in the arms of someone's wife than here - for surely you will find comfort and relief for your terror no where else.
But I disagree. I believe we must treat such individuals with compassion, fearing neither them nor the attention they may draw, however reluctantly. Treat them with compassion, I say, not knowing how and why they came to be who, what, and where they are.
Treat them with compassion, and show them the proper path just as it was laid out so long ago, here in these United States.
And why not I say? After all, repelicans seem to delight in radicalization
Wanting to murder Capitalists just because they worked hard to acquire their assets is wrong both morally and criminally.
Hey, just because I'd like to lynch Carl Rove or that I think John Roberts would look very nice were he attired with a hand axe planted smack dab in the middle of his forehead does not mean I want to murder capitalists.
Quite the contrary. I don't want to murder anyone. Capitalists? Some of them are very nice people - I happen to know one or two. Shit, for all you know, I may even be one . . .
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Really?
I guess I'll have to get some pictures I can post of the Occupy Burlington Movement as we occupied the dragon parade.
It was kinda fun.
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do the people on this forum also exist on the physical plane? or are they all just scripted little bots . . .
if they actually do exist on the physical plane, and if enough of us use the term repelican often enough, they will begin thinking that term, even if they never use it themselves.
repelicans suck - it's a fact, and in time perhaps those that are not little bot scripts who have not come to that realization will one day have an epiphany -
and just think . . . . it all began here . . . .
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Have you ever tried getting a massage treatment? I think you need some relaxation therapy. You should try massage. I can't do it myself. I don't really like the idea of a stranger touching me. You never know what kind of weirdo they might be.
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well
but here, check this you will find a link to someone who verifies the tactic actually works.
I've seen a lot of strange shit - and it's made me an insidious little bastard.
Honest.
and here's the permalink to the original confirmation
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yeah
what's your point, dick head
Hating the truth gets you nothing but an upset stomach. Face the truth: face the fact that you are sick and go about the hard painful process of healing yourself by shutting off your computer and going out into the world and meeting people in person and talking to them and getting to know them personally AND LETTING THEM KNOW YOU by being honest with them, and not hiding who you actually are. That takes courage. That takes the courage to admit that you fear many things.
When you have the courage to face your fears: you will discover that all your fears are groundless, and you will no longer be sick.
here,
Read this again
Hating the truth gets you nothing but an upset stomach. Face the truth: face the fact that you are sick and go about the hard painful process of healing yourself by shutting off your computer and going out into the world and meeting people in person and talking to them and getting to know them personally AND LETTING THEM KNOW YOU by being honest with them, and not hiding who you actually are. That takes courage. That takes the courage to admit that you fear many things.
When you have the courage to face your fears: you will discover that all your fears are groundless, and you will no longer be sick.
When the truth finally trickles through your brain down into your guts, and you get the gut feeling that what you have read is the truth> ACT on your gut feelings. Your gut-feelings are the most integrated truths you can have. It tells you what you should do without thinking. It tells you what to do without thinking. Your problem is that you think but you don't feel. You don't feel anything. This is a common disease of people who isolate themselves in their computer isolation cells and do not socialize with other people in person..
Right now: you are detached and dissociated from your gut feelings. This is one main reason why you are so sick in your head.
When you begin to connect yourself to your body: you will discover that you have a heart. You will begin to have all kinds of human feelings. You will feel sadness, anger, rage, love, pain, happiness, loneliness, wonder... all these new things are what you must connect to and feel and express with your whole body and your weak heart and your lungs and your other organs. Until you develop the intestinal fortitude to feel yourself as an integrated human being and never use a computer again to detach yourself and distract yourself from your own life and your own problems. You can never run away from yourself. No matter how much you try to distract yourself from yourself: your own personal condition, situation and reality will not change.
why do you care?
who the fuck are you to tell me shit?
you must be one of them fools intent on taking down this site.
I am acting on my gut
and my gut sayz
telling you the ugly truth about yourself is not 'caring'. You instinctively react with hatred against the truth that is what you must face: your entire life is based upon hate and fear
You need to gain the support of more than 1% of society before you consider such an action or you are going to end up dead or in prison for life.
Fine with me..
you would rather be dead then just elect new government members? You don't need a revolution, you can just vote.
I don't know if elections are going to work anymore....Everyone I vote for or don't vote for turns out to be a crook with few exceptions.
I'd rather have a politically educated crook, who understands international affairs. Then the average buy. Why do you think Obama never moved all troops out of Cuba? their are things for national security and other reasons that average citizens don't understand.
If you want a non-crook make your own party and get the OWS to vote for you. Then you have to be elected.
You have just validated my position..A politically educated crook is still a crook..With the passing of the NDAA...Fascist crooks.