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Forum Post: -- The Monkey Wrench Applied

Posted 2 years ago on Dec. 10, 2011, 4 p.m. EST by ZenDog (20419) from South Burlington, VT
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

As a practical matter, Lehman Bros. was allowed to fail, and that failure served to demonstrate what would happen if the entire system were not propped up with assurances by the federal government.

This is the utility of failure. It is also a form of Symbolic communication - where a physical image or event serves to instruct or inform a wide audience.

I would propose radical thinking and action, that demonstrates our numbers, and the power to be derived from those numbers.

We CAN break the system.

by capitalizing on their fear.

What does a lending institution fear most? Uncollectable debt. It is, in a sense, a prospect we don't necessarily have to use, as long as we can demonstrate that very real possibility.

With one million people, applying at one institution, for a line of credit, and then using that line of credit in synchronous fashion, we can demonstrate that we have power. To act as one.

A single purchase, or donation, on one specific day, to one single entity, would be such a demonstration. Imagine the benefit if one million people made one to ten dollar donations to . . . say, the red cross. All on one day.

By letting the institution know before hand, that we have this power, that we can use it, and then by using it, they will know fear.

Why? Because - what would it mean to them if one million potentially hostile citizens each have a $500 or a $1000 line of credit? One they are all willing to use, together?

  • What if they all max out their lines of credit at the same time?

  • What if they Don't pay it back?

With such a demonstration, they would pay attention.

With such a demonstration, we could make sure their creditors know, their investors know - that we have them, by the balls.

I am sure, we could then leverage any kind of lobbying effort using their access, any time we want.

All they have to know, is that they stand or fall, by our will.

[edited]

21 Comments

21 Comments


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[-] 2 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

in economics it's called moral hazard. when there is an implicit or explicit notion that an industry will get bailed out bad actions are more prevalent. If the whole financial industry was allowed to fail, the next generation would be more cautious.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20419) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

will a specific one of them get bailed out do you think, if one million or more members of the public set out to crush them?

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

that would be political suicide, unless they value their investment to those firms more than they value their position and nation. I remember when bush asked Congress for the bail out and Congress originally told him to go Fuck himself, but after the 800 point drop in the stockmarket the next day, they changed their tune. I don't believe this will work next time, I hope. and this illustrates another conflict of interest our nation endures.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20419) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

with one million credit cards all drawn on a single institution, each with $500 or more in lines of credit, we can signal to a single institution a very clear message.

That we own them.

that they stand or fall, at our whim

[-] 1 points by nucleus (3291) 2 years ago

1m accounts @ $500 - $500m. Small potatoes to BoA.

2m credit card accounts, each with a $2000 credit line = $4b. That's still less than their 3rd quarter profit of $6.2b, but it might be enough to nudge them awake.

5m account @ $2k = $10b. Now you're talking.

[-] 1 points by notforsale (19) 2 years ago

Realize that once they have the taste of those billions or even millions they fear losing it...whether it be 500m or 10b....greed lives to Have!!!

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

I think it would be wise to get the message out to all the people with IRAs invested in said firm to vacate their investment first. or Congress may be forced to bail them out. that could have been a reason why Congress folded like a cheep suite in '08, to be fair.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20419) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

a very reasonable suggestion - and an effective attention getting strategy. Just think - that would place a burden on their assets.

[-] 1 points by lgarz (287) from New York, NY 2 years ago

I can agree with what you say, but the problem is that the Banks have insured themselves against unpaid debt through the Dirivatives market. They simply package the debt, and sell it to a European Bank. That Chicken is about to come home to roost sooner than anybody thinks.

In addition, and I'm not trying to argue with you, recent history should tell you that the one thing that Banks fear the most is a Run on the Bank. That's why BofA & Chase changed their tune so quickly on the Debit Card fees. When just a few folks took their money out of the Bank on the same day, it sent them a terrifying message, and they caved immediately.

You are absolutely right to attack their fears, but you have to hit the right fear.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20419) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

So you don't think that a demonstration of this kind, signaled to their investors and creditors in advance, one that embodied the possibility we might max and then cut the cards in half and send them back with a note: you've been occupied

you don't think that would inspire a run on their assets?

[-] 1 points by lgarz (287) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Yes I do! I just think you can eliminate the the middle man. The simplest answer is usually the Best one. That's all I'm trying to say. How about a Combination of Both ideas. What would that do???

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20419) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

I think it would scare the shit out of them - provided it cut deep enough into the capital they are required to keep on hand.

[-] 1 points by notforsale (19) 2 years ago

We don't need banks!!!!! Let them be the first to fall.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

what now about credit cards?

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (20419) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

we can use them, by focusing on a single institution, and bring it to its knees.

Such a process should not be random, but carefully thought out.

the simple demonstration of numbers may be enough to inspire significant cooperation - as with one million one dollar donations to the Movement for example, or any single, specific charity as long as it is communicated that OWS is actively in support -

With credit in hand, multiplied one million times, we have access to their bottom line, and so to their own future as an institution. With this we can either bend them to our will, or break them altogether.

One such demonstration will inspire panic in the rest, and before you know it, they may all be begging for regulation.

I can think of no better, more efficient way to arrive at a state of financial regulation other than incentivizing the savings / investment institutons to act in their own best interest.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

use them how?

please be specific

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20419) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

by capitalizing on their fear.

What does a lending institution fear most? Uncollectable debt. It is, in a sense, a prospect we don't necessarily have to use, as long as we can demonstrate that very real possibility.

With one million people, applying at one institution, for a line of credit, and then using that line of credit in synchronous fashion, we can demonstrate that we have power. To act as one.

A single purchase, or donation, on one specific day, to one single entity, would be such a demonstration. Imagine the benefit if one million people made one to ten dollar donations to . . . say, the red cross. All on one day.

By letting the institution know before hand, that we have this power, that we can use it, and then by using it, they will know fear.

Why? Because - what would it mean to them if one million potentially hostile citizens each have a $500 or a $1000 line of credit? One they are all willing to use, together?

  • What if they all max out their lines of credit at the same time?

  • What if they Don't pay it back?

With such a demonstration, they would pay attention.

With such a demonstration, we could make sure their creditors know, their investors know - that we have them, by the balls.

I am sure, we could then leverage any kind of lobbying effort using their access, any time we want.

All they have to know, is that they stand or fall, by our will.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

why not put that energy into a direct democracy voting system ?

anyone who votes with credit votes in their name anyway

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20419) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

I don't know . . .

flesh out that idea, present it at a GA, organize around it, demonstrate it in action.

[-] 1 points by jimmycrackerson (940) from Blackfoot, ID 2 years ago

I think I like where you're going with this. Muahahaha

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20419) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

bwahahaha