Forum Post: Do you want a real change in policy?
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 9, 2011, 10:43 p.m. EST by zandavorn
(18)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
The question is simple. Are the people that are asking for things to change really ready for a policy change? So far, all I've been able to see is that the people begging for change are simply explaining their ideological views. Sadly, we've already been through 4 years of political gridlock when it comes to people's ideological views. Nobody knows what your goals are. I'm assuming you're angry that there is so much national debt, and it seems like the only people getting further ahead is the already wealthy. Things are getting more expensive and wages are stagnant. The truth is, everyone in the movement needs to decide if they are protesting for policy changes that can begin getting the U.S. out of debt and making life easier for the average person, or if you want to continue an ideological war that will get us nowhere and continue the stagnation of horrible politics. If you all want realistic, rational policy change, let me know. If there are a significant amount of comments on this post, I will begin explaining a point by point plan to start fixing various policy sets in the U.S.
Have a great day everyone.
good point,. so we need to step away from ideology and back to science and truth and in order to do that we must direct the mob into forming an open source think tank.
until we organize ourselves into a genuine democratic union, we are merely the mob thats formed as the sheeple at the gates of the slaughterhouse.
policy changes are relevant to specific political issues and are started as science textbooks that branch into the issues; not as bong smoking ideological epiphany storms people blurt to post on the site.
"Demands" are what they ask for as pigs and as sheeple herders in order to frame you as infantile and as terrorists.
Adult Conversation MUST start not at selling me ron paul or arguing against the commies or arguing against the capitalists or etc; i don't want to hear about strikes or boycotts and in many senses even the occupation is frivolous. the path of right action is and must be and can only be an exploration lucidly as we the people of what it would be like to be writing our own laws. Not making demands. You want to regulate banks? Don't give me a one pargraph demand and list steagal. Give me a 20 page new law and hard cold details created after a long hard educational sesh of we the people. Doing it in ignorance as bong ripping brain stormer ideologues ain't working. Coming here to promote your ideology ain't working. All ideologies are by definition tools of the oligarchs and the only way out of the matrix is Science.
I'd very much appreciate you as an ally to move your ideas forward, to get policy moving, It seems that due to the gross negligence, incompetence, or strategic choices of the admin here we have no wiki and no sub forums. The critical lack of organizational space frustrates me from even trying to start serious organization because i know it all gets lost in scrawl. The solution to this until the admin gets their act together (or we finally conclude we have been played and that the admin has no intention of getting that act together.. sigh..) is then to in essence make lists of links to threads; in other words; link maps of the scrawl.
I'd suggest between the two of us we could probably hit 30 or 40 main political issue fields and give the public a sense of direction for how to move as a think tank instead of a mob in prolly under 48 hours or so assuming others join us. its soooooo pathetic we don't have a wiki to do this on yet... or even as much as sub forums.. two weeks later... sigh...
you see where that goes? i don't have the motivation. I am totally burned on pearls to swine. all of this is wasting my time till it wakes up from sleepwalking... doing that much more work as a heroic effort is totally beyond my motivation level when my nearest ally is an admin who can't be bothered to either install a phpbb or generate the organizational sub forum structure that would make that meaningful. I mean? the best i can do thanks to that lack of organization is link farm clown circus. i get to work 10 times harder because they can't be bothered to add in fundamentally crucial organization.
I mean.. seriously... all i do all day long in here for the most part is just say no to some lame ideology or some other and they all think they are some kind of brilliant whack super genius informing the rest of us; when its all more or less mostly garbage in and garbage out in scrawl.
Then there are chat admins who are abusive with their powers... and then there are protestor instigators who are clearly trying to get people arrested...
I keep asking myself.. when and will and if this whole thing will ever get its act together and so far the answer is no. But. here you are; in essence; formulating the core answer again for the collective... so.. at least you and i GET IT...
Wow. Thank you. I had all but decided, everyone was content to be an ideologue with no real chance of getting anything to change. I'll pm you. Maybe we can start something.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/thetruth-socialismcapitalismcommunismmarxism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-versus-corporatism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/help-me-understand/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-a-love-story/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/sociology/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/energy-101-solution/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ethics/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/break-your-left-right-conditioning/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/nader-kucinich-and-paul/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/5-facts-you-should-know-about-the-wealthiest-one-p/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/teaching-the-occupation/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-forum-needs-structure/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-not-your-personal-billboard-for-your-politi/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/systems-theory-primer/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/organize-inform-take-action-effect-change/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/better-website-needed/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-playing-the-devils-games/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/nonviolence-the-only-path/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-not-against-capitalism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-is-not-about-political-stripe-it-is-about-bas/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/national-initiative-for-democracy/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-third-political-party-the-movement-of-the-middle/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/300-fema-camps/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-a-false-flag-operation/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-this-will-not-work/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/paradigm-shift-now/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-proposal-for-focus/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-the-bullshit-posts-and-get-organized/
We did it to ourselves by voting for people that used urban legends to get elected.
Anyone else notice that one month after SB 1070 passed in Arizona that the US job market suddenly stopped improving after the initial recovery that began when Pres. Obama took office?
If we gave those 10-20 million illegals the boot tomorrow ... there would be millions of empty residences across the country ... taxes would go unpaid ... foreclosures would go up … http://lenderama.com/2007/12/29/illegal-immigration-and-the-housing-market/
Consumer demand caused by SB 1070 inside Arizona collapsed many businesses.
Vendors say illegal immigration crackdown prompted Mesa Swap Mart's closing http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/arizona/immigration/article_f1f25e2c-80b1-11df-995d-001cc4c002e0.html
The timing of the US recession and the Mexican economic boom corresponds with when illegal immigrants began leaving the US and going to Mexico.
Illegal immigrant population declines 1.7 million at the beginning of the recession; http://www.cis.org/IllegalImmigration-ShiftingTide
Mexican President says countries economy getting better; http://www.chron.com/news/nation-world/article/Mexican-president-says-country-s-economy-getting-1734927.php
Illegal immigrants are responsible for approximately $120 billion in consumer demand, which creates demand for approximately 7 million dwellings and about the same number of jobs for US citizens.
The Economic Impact of Legalization versus Deportation in Arizona; http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2011/03/pdf/rising_tide.pdf
A financial crisis and major period of unemployment has followed every major piece of racist legislation in the United States, and these events extend back like tree rings that show rainfall.
Naturalization Act of 1870; http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/articles/pages/6061/Citizenship-and-Race.html Panic of 1873; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1873 Geary Act of 1892; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geary_Act Panic of 1893; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1893 Bumper crops through 1932 in Oklahoma and Texas; http://www.helium.com/items/791036-causes-of-the-dust-bowl/print Mexican Repatriation from 1929 to 1937; http://webs.rps205.com/curriculum/ssandvoc/MexicanDeportation.html Great Depression from 1929 to 1937; http://www.calisphere.universityofcalifornia.edu/themed_collections/topics4.html University of Michigan; http://www.umich.edu/~ac213/student_projects07/repatriados/resources/resources.html Bush Signs Bill for U.S.-Mexico Border; http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15424055/ns/us_news-security/t/bush-signs-bill-us-mexico-border-fence/#.Tl9GJ679U-M China Chooses Mexico as It Main Foreign Investment Destination; http://blog.finetik.com/2009/10/01/china-chooses-mexico-as-its-main-foreign-investment-destination/ Trade Winds from the East; http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=51044 Reverse Immigration Jeopardizes US Economy; http://thenewamerican.com/economy/markets-mainmenu-45/1933-reverse-immigration-jeopardizes-us-economy China chooses Mexico as its main foreign investment destination; http://blog.finetik.com/2009/10/01/china-chooses-mexico-as-its-main-foreign-investment-destination/ Learning Chinese in Mexico; http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jun/07/world/la-fg-mexico-china-20100607 In Mexico, an energized economy raises hopes; http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-02-10-Mexicorising_N.htm
So, reform immigration policy? Agreed. There are things to be done with that.
Get corporate money out of government. Period.
As long as someone's making a profit, the rest of us are screwed. I'm, personally, not against capitalism but corporate money has no place in a government by the people. The policy should be, "separation of business and state".
I personally don't care nearly as much about the national debt as I do the lack of jobs and many other issues. It's the Republicans who have tried to trick people into thinking the debt is the biggest problem. And then tried to cut our benefits (and retirement that we WORKED for) in order to solve this mythological problem of the debt. F the debt!
It's not the responsibility of the people out there to come up with a "goal" or a "solution". They just need to let our representatives know that they're sick and tired of the unfairness in our system. It's the job of the Representatives to figure out how to solve the problems.
Everybody who has lost their job or lost their pension or is worried about their retirement or worried about the national debt or is watching their bosses get huge bonuses while their health-care costs are going through the roof or works 60 hours a week but still can't afford college for their children or who can barely afford the gas to get to work or is having trouble making their mortgage payments etc. etc. etc. should be a part of this movement.
And who are you that we should believe anything you say about how to fix anything in the U.S.?
If you really have some ideas, don't bait people or try to blackmail them into making you popular by commenting on your post. Just put your ideas out there and let people judge them.
Again, blaming a party. Great. Who am I? A nobody, just like everybody else. It's not about being popular, it's about simply finding out if anybody actually cares about policy before I start wasting my time.
I'm not blaming the people of the Republican party, nor am I blaming one party more than another. I'm blaming the Republican for that one particular POLICY (it's written down) which you seem to have bought into. I only brought up that one issue because YOU brought it up.
You elect and hire people to implement the best policy for a time and place. We shouldn't be arguing policy. We should be making sure that the people we elect and hire create policy which benefit the country as a whole and not special interest groups. Its simple. Take the money factor out of elections.
What ever your political stance... We have a lot more in common with each other then rich people and poor people do.
You divide with statements like these. What do you consider poor? What do you consider rich?
Do you want a real change in policy? Then VOTE!
http://occupywallst.org/forum/vote-or-else-this-will-all-be-a-pointless-exercise/
Thanks, but I already try to vote and inform myself regardless of what the vote is on (judges' retention elections, congressmen, governor, city council, whatever). The problem is that even elected officials don't always know how to fix problems.
And even if they do the system swallows them whole before they get a chance.
Voting isn't enough when there's no options
http://www.opensecrets.org/
I'm reading your link. Please consider reading mine.
The focus on specific policies is misguided -> http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-amorphous-message-is-the-message/
No single person is informed enough to solve a single issue. This is where democracy comes in.
You're correct. No person can possibly fix every problem in the U.S., but if you are unwilling to listen to ideas on fixing on policy sets then you choose to do nothing and complain about everything. What I'm offering is quite simple. Ideas to get people to start talking about what can realistically be done.
A reasonable policy solution cannot be posted on this forum. Solutions are hundreds of pages long. Here's an example, you assume in your post that reducing the debt will make life easier for average Americans. Actually modeling this, laying down assumptions etc, requires years of work.
The best this movement can hope for is an overarching goal to decease corporate influence. A protest is not a place for academic research.
Let me tell you what I am fighting for. I am fighting for a global economy that is based on all of the natural resources of the planet. I am fighting for a true democracy that is detached from profit-seeking institutions. I am fighting for the principals that America was truly founded upon; not the principals that Michelle Bachman, John Boehner, or Barack Obama understands. I lump all current politicians into one category: evil. Lacking morals. Lacking conscience.
I understand our problems to be so immense that if a true progressive took office he would not muffle them, nor elongate their existence. I do not believe that Barack Obama is fighting for the populous.
Project Earth: A Resource Based Economy Explained http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDhSgCsD_x8
I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.
Viva la Resistance!
Way to spam. Maybe you should read before posting.
Is this unrealistic? Do you not agree?
Actually, yes, it is unrealistic. Outlaw lobbyists? Okay. There will still be interests group that publicly state they want a certain plan and those interest groups will find a way to lend their support to candidates that support the interest group's cause.
Also, I saw this on several other posts. That's why I said "Way to spam." And to reply to what's below, you didn't answer my question you just said politicians are evil and gave 4 unrealistic desires. No one's going to dissolve the current government. Ending the Fed? Great, what's the money supply considering this country has already sold off much of it's gold.
I read what you wrote, and I happen to have written this earlier in the day. You asked and I answered.