Forum Post: Capitalism when implemented in a fair and just manner is GOOD
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 10, 2011, 3:35 p.m. EST by hadenough
(3)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Let's try to understand some basic economics. People without jobs and without money DO NOT pay taxes and DO NOT buy goods and services. So every time a a job is cut or benefits are reduced there is a reduction in the purchase of goods and services.
Henry Ford understood this exceedingly well, back at the beginning of the 20th century. He was heavily criticized by his fellow industrialists for overpaying his workers. He paid them $5.00/day. Doing so he created customers, who were now able to buy the very products (cars) that they produced. This in turn had the ripple effect of creating jobs to repair cars, pave roads, refine oil into gasoline and lubricants., etc. The list goes on and on. The net effect - his workers prospered and he grew even wealthier.
So, let's get with the program. Putting Americans out of work, eliminating pensions and benefits hurts all of us, including the wealthy. Remember more of us paying taxes reduces the tax burden for each individual.
Capitolism was never good. It is Not in the Declaration Of Independence. It is not in the Constitution. Nor is it in any Amendment. It is a very destructive process created by very greedy people who wanted it ALL cause they couldn't get enough...the greedy 1% are like a crackhead.
You clearly don't know what Capitalism is...
I live in capitolism and I sold capitolism to many people...the housing market! I do not agree with this system. It preys on the middle-class /working class people. Ive seen what it does to the majority of Americans. The system No Longer SUSTAINS itself
The Fed created the housing bubble...not capitalism.
No you are wrong. I worked in the housing market for 9 yrs. Mortgage and real estate brokers along with the builders got GREEDY....aka CAPITOLISM! Houses went up 140% between 2002 -2004. It was not freddymac.
Name a better economic system and a country that has used it successfully.
Why are so many people in debt? Why have so many Americans lost their homes...their jobs?! Why are college students up to their necks in debt? Why do they come out of college with degrees,but there are no jobs for them?! WHY?? Why are the unions that support the people..the 99% are being attacked??!!
France and Japan have a better SYSTEM!! But I will stay here and fight for We The Peolpe. I am the 99% !!
It depends. Some people live beyond their means. Others face unfortunate events.
Ditto.
It depends. Some people chose to chase their "dream school," not realizing what $100,000+ in loans really means. Others face unfortunate events.
It's hard to find a job, but they do still exist, and if it gets too hard, there's always entrepreneurship, with all of its risks and rewards.
Do they really support the people? No. They support their members. If you're not a member, they don't care about you.
France and Japan do not have a better system than we do. France's unemployment rate is higher than ours, and Japan's been stagnant since 1990.
Yes...we do know who you are. Your name speaks for itself. There are no members in #ows. Only in country clubs and the 2 party system.
You need to do MORE research on FRANCE. They are a country that totally sustains its people. They make and create all products in their country. Nothing is imported,until their products are on the market first. The French also make the government listen to them or they will MOVE them out. Of course their healthcare system provides for the people.As well as Great Britains healthcare system. Japan may have had recent disaster this year,but they are a system that bounces back. They have a national healthcare system that far exceeds this country.
A welfare state is also not the declaration or the constitution. Come to think of it, the internet is not in the declaration or constitution, that must mean it is evil....
You are correct . There is no welfare state in the Constitution...so why were the wallstreet welfare recipents bailed out with TARP money ??? Is it in the Constitution to bail out banking institutions?
Haha, my point is that not everything in the USA is explicitly stated in the constitution. The constitution was meant to be a framework on which to build the government, not the only law that exists in America. So "it's not in the constitution" is not an argument for why or why not something is good or bad.
However we have a system that does not work.The system does Not SUSTAIN the people. The 99% are struggling by No Fault of their own. Hence The People taking it to The Streets!
It was a LONG TIME coming!
Umm, this has nothing to do with your original argument or mine against it. So much for intelligent debate.
yes we know you rightwingnuts/teabparty/repugs and TROLLS are here to insult and sabotage # ows and its supporters.Which is WHY you lack comprehension of this movement !! Debate Over. Good Luck
I'm trying to point out the flaws in your argument in the hopes you will learn something or provide an adequate reasoning behind your argument. You are the one who decided to react in an overdramatic rant.
Try taking the splinter from YOUR EYE first.You got alot more 99% to fight besides me. I won't be feeding into your troll behavior. Good Luck!
Right on! You hit the nail right on the head. It's too bad you can't get this message through to the right-wing clique that is trying to hijack this site. http://sibob.org/wordpress/?p=8026
I totally agree. I don't think the problem is capitalism; it's corruption. The system itself would work really well, as a blend with socialism (as in the safety net we need, especially the health care system we don't have), and we could do that, but certain elements of this country don't want that, because they are interested in their own money, period. And they have a lot of power. They want to keep their money and their power, and it's going to take Herculean efforts to force change, on a legislative level.
If the problem is not capitalism, but corruption...what then do you think the source of corruption is? Tah dah, the government! And what does socialism do? It gives ever more power to the government by allowing it to establish monopolies over goods and services!!! Do you think that's a good idea?
"The government"....I love when people say that, as if it were some amorphous sponge-monster from the depths of the sea.
The "government" is the people we elect to run things for us, because we don't have the time or energy to do it ourselves. Example: we have a national guard, and when there's a bad storm or other disaster, our "government" sends out the guard to help clean up, treat the injured and then our "government" gets FEMA to hand out money and assistance to people who lost their homes in the storm or other disaster. That's what we have government for.
Corruption happens when people break laws openly and knowingly, in order to keep power or get more power or money. It doesn't always come from 'the government"; it can (and often does) come from members of a certain industry (like the Koch brothers and their many oil concerns), who will bribe officials or just contribute huge sums so have someone elected who is useful for them. Another good example of corruption: a Supreme Court justice is not allowed to judge a case in which he himself has financial concerns, but Clarence Thomas is about to do just that. There's a perfect example.
If we have no government, of some or any kind, we have anarchy, which does not work. Any system of government requires laws, and that the laws be obeyed.
Now about socialism: I said a blend of capitalism and socialism, for the very reasons you mention. In the case of public health care, the British, Canadians, Scottish, Brazilians, Australians, French, Swedish and I could go on and on, all have socialized medicine. I don't see it doing them any harm.
It is utterly misguided of you to say that the government does things we don't have time to do. Such things, people would find profitable to do!! We don't need the government to do them. Corruption happens because the government is people. Anarchy does work. And all of the systems of healthcare in all of those countries are pretty inefficient and unideal!! America's healthcare is actually pretty close to Canada's (in efficiency, etc.)
Anarchy works?? Really??? Because I could swear there is no anarchic nation-state on Earth- oh, wait....Somalia is an anarchy. Yeah, I'd love to live there.
Somalia is not in anarchy. It works, it just requires support by the people. Otherwise it turns into America (which we can see is way worse :))
Oh yes....because we have so many American pirates kidnapping people and holding them for ransom.
Taxes are a result of Government. More of one creates the demand in the other.
Promote pensions, Gov jobs, Gov programs and you subsequently lower the income of others.
Let the free market determine wages, pensions and all those other wonderful things AND reduce the size of government: Everyone benefits.
I wish every employer could realize this, but our economy is much more complicated now. Take away the regulations that are killing the jobs, and quit handing money to people who refuse to work! when unemployment is down to 4% the government will be collecting a lot more in taxes to pay for services--but we need a demand for the goods that are produced by the increased number of workers--that is the biggest problem in job creation right now. And I am afraid of a flat tax because right now I pay no income tax and no tax on food. Herman Cain's idea seems to threaten to take 18% away from my small income---I am permanently disabled. Why would anyone suggest that minimum wage earners should pay the same percentage as those who earn 100 times as much?
Unfortunately, that only happens in textbooks and dreams.
In the real world, the free markets NATURALLY leads to economic concentration and the creation of powerful giant corporation and oligopolies.
follow Stiglitz and Krugman
impossible. almost right. a free market system inside of democracy can be fair and good. capitalism per sey is always going to create inequality and can never be fair or good.
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The title of this is flawed to begin with. Capitalism isn't "implemented." You are used to a world in which the government dictates how our economy is run, and so you think "implemented" is a good word. Capitalism spontaneously emerges. Abolish the government, abolish the problem.