Forum Post: 80% of the 99%
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 9, 2011, 11:46 p.m. EST by kmanpdx
(105)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
So - this is 100% opinion, but I am troubled that 80% of the 99% are clueless. In order for this movement to work, the 80% need to be educated. The problem with that, is they do not want it yet. This is a real problem as no matter how justified this movement is (and I believe it is), it will fail. And it won't be successful until the 80% get a clue. So, to any organizers, there is your focus. Work to get the 80% on your side. You might have to suck it up and find some corporate sponsors tho. What? It's OK to accept some lobbyist $$ if it's for our cause, right? PS - if you are reading this, you are in the top 20% of the 99%, according to my calculations ;-)
If your brand of educating the masses is to shove your ideals down the throat of people who question your motives Obama style, then count me out... In the mean time, I'll be reading through the many threads gawdoftruth linked - I prefer to learn for myself.
So you're going to "learn" by reading the opinions of others posted in internet forums? Usually learning requires the ingestion of facts. Start with facts. Once you learn the facts of this situation, then you can discuss opinion. gawdoftruth linked many pages but all of them are links to other forums, not one of them is linked to any sort of actual factual reference.
So are you suggesting that everything on these forums is fantasy? I was actually going to use those links to start my learning process, but I certainly wouldn't want to waste my time by not reading facts. It's kind of hard to find any factual truths in this movement though, so maybe you are right. Thanks for the heads up. you saved me countless hours. I think I'll head to lower Manhattan while I am in new York this week and see for myself what this is really about.
Good for you! There's some good stuff in what gawdoftruth posted. I was merely pointing out my unverified version of the problem with this movement. That being some large % of the 99% are ignorant.
you're advocating the eduation of this movement and you're applauding someone for "learning" by reading internet forums. you need a little educating as well. opinions are not facts. no one has ever learned anything based on the opinion of someone else. you need facts in order to learn.
Hey youngz101 - Maybe you should be calling out the idiot who is posting all of these links and telling people to educate themselves with them... The original thread poster is advocating for that crap, and I, as a wandering and curious observer, certainly want to learn -- and this would seem like a good place to start since it's the forum on the "official OWS" site, no? Perhaps you can provide info for people to educate themselves instead of providing absolutely no useful additions to the discussion.
I wish I had a good argument for you. But you have me cornered, I made a mistake. Hopefully others will read this and go educate themselves. Do you just have opinions as well, or do you have some real information to 'learn' us? How do you suggest educating the people on the movement and all the injustice happening today?
Stand up for yourself kmanpdx. youngz101 doesn't "have you cornered". The original poster is the one advocating people use forums opinion as a tool for education - which is exactly where my subtle sarcasm came in in my original post. I'm glad to see you redeemed yourself in the latter part of your post though.
agreed, we have to make this an educational movement and that starts with educating ourselves.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/thetruth-socialismcapitalismcommunismmarxism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-versus-corporatism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/help-me-understand/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-a-love-story/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/sociology/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/energy-101-solution/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ethics/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/break-your-left-right-conditioning/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/nader-kucinich-and-paul/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/5-facts-you-should-know-about-the-wealthiest-one-p/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/teaching-the-occupation/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-forum-needs-structure/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-not-your-personal-billboard-for-your-politi/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/systems-theory-primer/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/organize-inform-take-action-effect-change/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/better-website-needed/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-playing-the-devils-games/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/nonviolence-the-only-path/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-not-against-capitalism/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-is-not-about-political-stripe-it-is-about-bas/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/national-initiative-for-democracy/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-third-political-party-the-movement-of-the-middle/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/300-fema-camps/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-a-false-flag-operation/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-this-will-not-work/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/paradigm-shift-now/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-proposal-for-focus/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-the-bullshit-posts-and-get-organized/
I have been spreading the OWS message to people i know, on social sites, comments, boards,etc.
Yahoo is now censoring this site and wearethe99percent( the posting of the links here). They also do not carry anything about the protest unless you search for it( been looking all day). I think someone is getting scared and its not us. I use Yahoo a lot and post links all the time from all over the web. This is the first time i have ever had them censor me in the 12 years i have used them.
Lets keep it going. Keep telling people. Keep explaining it to them until they get it.
1st, I agree - need to get the word out. 2nd, I don't agree w/ Yahoo censoring: http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=ApKRmEiqT3Gwy3LZSTAJltCbvZx4?p=occupy+wall+street&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-701
I simply typed in "Occupy Wall Street" on the Yahoo front page. You can also search like this - in the Search bar for yahoo or google type "what is occupy wall street site:occupywallst.org" to get results only from occupywallst.org website. BTW, the webmaster can limit what directories are indexed on a website, forum's are probably not indexed (not 100% sure tho).
They have been censoring posting http://occupywallst.org as a source or in a comment or other type of board. The searchs still work. I should of made that part more clear. I can write a post add http://occupywallst.org and it will give me an internal error-999. When i remove the link( even if i replace it with a different link like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_Street) It will let me post it. Thus they are specifically censoring posting this site as link.
I found this true both for article comments and Y! Answers.
Wow, that's screwed up then. Well, I like google better anyway!
Well i was using it to spread the word mostly on Y!A. I wasnt spamming or anything. I was making legit comments or answering related questions many of them about OWS directly. and was using the two links above as my sources.
I can still get around it by doing a occupy wall st dot org thing but links are better.
I think Google will be one of the first major companies that jump on our side. They treat their employees well from what i have heard. Which means they still have some morals left unlike many corporation officers. I would like to believe they care about their employees. It seems they do to me.
I agree. There needs to be a website that is meant purely to spread the GOOD ideas that come out of the OWS movement. There are some smart people involved, but too many people who can't hold their own in a debate.
Great idea, I like this.
Unless you're talking Ben und Jerries, beware.
They rock, actually: http://www.benjerry.com/activism/occupy-movement/
Wow that was better than anything I've read tonight. I love them!
Their ice cream doesn't suck either (no I don't work for them!!)
Correct. 80% of the idiots protesting on wallstreet do not know what the fuck they are talking about. They just want hugs and free college money for their super duper awesome arts degrees
Really? tell that to my family and friends with degrees in computer engineering, marketing, social and practical science degrees out of work or stuck at Mcdonalds. Tell that to the laborers in their 30's and 40's who lost their jobs after 20 years this. Please... go downtown and explain to these people as well as those who you consider hippies begging for whatever your mind warped reasoning is why.. in detail and in a public manner why you feel your better than they are.
Why you degrade them because they cannot find work, why you degrade them because you currently have a job and they do not.
Why on many job applications today you cannot be hired because corporations have a no hire unemployed policy.
Tell me why Good sir.... Why?
well I actually know the answer to this one :D
One of the deacons of my church works on the board of directors for a local credit union, he works there for free. in President Obama's "job's bill" there is a little known clause that reads something like this (paraphrased) "If someone applys for a job, and you interview them, you must give them the job, otherwise they have cause to sue you"
What this means is that companies are just going to hire someone who already has job as it means they cannot be sued for turning anyone down.
While I do not agree with Obama's way of handling the issue. The problem existed before the president attempted to fix it.. In his own way. He attempted to fix the issue because companies were posting do not apply if unemployed on their adds to begin with.
I am thinking if this law passes it will make job hunting even harder than it is now. In that regard we have an agreement.
Do you have a reference link to that clause?
I do not, I will have to ask him when I next get a chance to see him.
Why? Becuase there are no jobs in America?
Why? Because we have the second highest corporate tax rate in the world after japan. Why does that matter? Becuase it is cheaper to export jobs to india thanks to tax breaks. I was unemployed for over a year but I still find a job.
The problem is over-regulation and over taxation on corporations.
The answer? Close all tax loopholes for all corporations, and make a competitive tax rate.
While the message is distorted among the masses... Those on the streets are protesting just that.
Try to avoid who the media picks out to interview.. There are dank spots in the gene pool no matter where you go. The media is trained and orders to find them so to undermine the cause. They very much ignore and step away from those with clear messages like yours.
Remember this when watching the news.
Naw, they are in the 20% according to me. The other's sitting at home, who don't have a clue this is even happening, are the 80%. You, obviously, are part of the 80%. Free college education would level the playing field, a lot.
I would be all for free education, but one would have to earn it while in collage. While studying there is a regiment in the clause creating a work study or apprenticeship in your desired field.
I am sure all of you know, collage is fun.. 90% of what you learn in collage is flushed down the toilet. People learn by doing..
Good point, I can't argue with that. The next problem is, how do we employ the hoards of highly educated kids when college is free.
Its not a simple solution, its happening right now.. Corporations see diplomas as pieces of paper rather than hold its value. They know that any fool can do their job with any 4yr degree. If you can spend the time reading a book and taking tests you can do the job assigned to them. This is why those who do have jobs in europe didnt go to collage or went to collage and started an apprenticeship program. The logic is simple, people learn by doing and doing it often. Education is a business instead of a doorway to opening minds.
Jobs and education in this country and pretty much in countries with our standards do not mean shit. 95% of jobs now are acquired by who you know. Sadly these jobs are being threatened by some sort of computer or robot.
In the end its not a matter of employment. Its a matter of ending the need for a job. Education, art, science, and social advancement should be a passion, an desire.. Not a need to meet the needs of money. I want to learn because I want to, not because ill make money doing it. No one on this planet should ever... ever... ever feel that way again!
I love this conversation; in my opinion most college degrees are a huge waste of time and money-- as much of a scam on the middle class as easy mortgage loans ever were. My college degree, my husband's MBA, and those of my 2 kids from a very expensive top university (which we're still paying off) were nothing more than a stamp of approval --they got us in the door but didn't prepare or educate any of us for what we're actually doing now. I still don't get what OWS is about, but if it's about challenging elitist barriers and trying to level the playing field, the fact that a college degree has been reduced to a pay-to-play toll for job-seekers would be a great place to start...
A 4 year degree is a yardstick. It show's you have what it takes to accomplish something and it provides a good base for moving into the workforce where you really learn what you need to be good at your job. I was once a manager for a fortune 500 company and when I looked at resumes, I cared about the ones that had degree's supplemented with technical certifications and work experience (I work in IT where tech certs sometimes actually trump 4 year degree's).
For the record, I've always been a firm believer that if you follow your passion in life, you will be happy. You just have to figure out what you passion is and hope it fills a real need in society and then you will be happy and successful. Else, you end up having to learn to make money doing something you might not like. It's just a reality in my .02
If we add your two cents and mine together it would change the world. My first degree was in network engineering. I studied and achieved my MCSE, CCNA, plus a few others. I studied it because I felt if I didnt I would find a job. In the end the IT bubble burst after 9/11 and I couldnt find a job. I choose anthropology/archaeology. It was my passion and for ten years I was happily employed with CRM firms. Then the economy took a shit and 3 years plus I am once again unable to find a job. I tried other fields relating to anthropology such as human resources plus anything in between. Like everyone out there in the streets I ended up a over qualified underemployed angry man. Now I am attempting another go and returning to collage studying asian cultures and linguistics. There is a niche in it and its one of my greatest passions. However, finding a job to support my family and fighting the University of Michigan’s raising tuition is becoming an crushing blow for me.
Without a continued ramble, my final statement is thus; you are a rare bird. I have friends like everyone here which have all those fancy IT degrees and certifications they cannot find a job if it hit them in the face. I have traveled and worked all over the country, I am not just speaking of Michigan.. This is all over.
Funny! Two random people have something in common. So, network engineering is my passion. I stay up late messing with routers, networks, linux, anything with a CLI really. Computers and routers are a lot easier to deal with sometimes ;-). So, I am lucky to be employed doing just that really. Good luck to you, I hope you find a niche in your passion.
You too.. Aim for every cisco certification you can!
I have CCIE already. Working on VCP (VMWare Certified Professional). Virtualization and cloud computing are going to be huge for the next 5-10 years in my opinion. Take care!
Who would pay for it?
Someone has to work at McDonalds and cash me out at WalMart. Do they need a college degree? Wouldn't that be a huge waste of time?
Taxpayers. Tax the 1% investment income like regular income. Demand the government agencies are more efficient - maybe even run like businesses with a P&L and where managers are held accountable for their actions. I'm sure there's many other ways.
But why do cashiers and fast food workers even need a college degree?
Or electricians, plumbers, construction, workers, etc..
College is not for everyone.
Also, I'm a fan of the trade industries (electricians, plumbers, etc..) and technical certifications. They get you the knowledge you need to be moderately successful as well. They still cost money however.
You can argue, those that work in those positions, do so because they do not feel they have anywhere else to go. I joined the Army out of high school because my family could not afford college and I didn't want to go into debt for the next 30 years
That may be true but even if everyone in the country had a college degree, someone is still going to have to run the cash register at the store and someone is still going to have to scrub the toilet.
Agree. Those positions are needed. Just because education is accessible, doesn't mean it will be used. The folks who do not strive to further themselves will fill those roles. As it stands today, I'm sure there are some true contributors to society who cannot afford the education to better themselves. Now, there are avenues for people if they look hard enough. But man, I have 2 kids, 14 and 11, and I'm cringing at the thought of what a college education is going to do to me (keep me working for the 1% until I'm dead)..Does it really cost that much to educate? Really?
It is expensive. I graduated with around $100K in debt but am lucky enough to have a good job. That's what is so important. It is nice to send your kids off to college and have them pursue their dreams but when they come home with a degree in philosophy and a $120K Stafford loan it is good for no one.
Encourage your kids to go into fields that hire out of college and pay well and their loans will take care of themselves. Help them the best you can but don't be afraid to let them take out some loans. Student loans are so dangerous because 18 year old's may still be in follow your dream mode and not reality mode. It sounds like you are a proactive parent though and that can go a long way in preventing a young person from burying themselves in student debt.
That's good advice Mooks. My current plan is to help them as much as I can without draining my savings, push them for scholarships, find grants if I can (although I make too much money for a lot of them), and have them go into debt for the rest. I'm probably going to push them into a local community college for the first 2 years as well. It is less expensive, and the 4 year degree will still come from a university. But, it really does suck that my kids have to go into debt just to be competitive in the workforce.
At least we are starting to talk about it. Thats a good start.
Yes, it's a start. Focus on the 80% - get them educated about the wrongs (inequality of pay, lobbyists in government, cost of education, cost of medical etc..) and a beast will awaken