Occupy Oakland Calls For City-Wide General Strike, Nov 2
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 30, 2011, 9 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt
Below is the proposal passed by the Occupy Oakland General Assembly on Wednesday October 26, 2011 in reclaimed Oscar Grant Plaza. 1607 people voted. 1484 voted in favor of the resolution, 77 abstained and 46 voted against it, passing the proposal at 96.9%. The General Assembly operates on a modified consensus process that passes proposals with 90% in favor and with abstaining votes removed from the final count.
Propuesta
We as fellow occupiers of Oscar Grant Plaza propose that on Wednesday November 2, 2011, we liberate Oakland and shut down the 1%.
We propose a city wide general strike and we propose we invite all students to walk out of school. Instead of workers going to work and students going to school, the people will converge on downtown Oakland to shut down the city.
All banks and corporations should close down for the day or we will march on them.
While we are calling for a general strike, we are also calling for much more. People who organize out of their neighborhoods, schools, community organizations, affinity groups, workplaces and families are encouraged to self organize in a way that allows them to participate in shutting down the city in whatever manner they are comfortable with and capable of.
The whole world is watching Oakland. Let’s show them what is possible.
I'm the president of an energy company and I am personally giving my employees off that day in solidarity.
If you're really proud, name your company.
How can you all take this person's word that he is the President of an energy company? Look at his name for crying out loud. Gullible people.
Want reality? Here's reality...Looks like you all believed this story, too....which turns out to be false...
http://markamerica.com/tag/ihatethemarinecorps-com/
yeah ok,. "bambi" lets judge people based on the name the choose for a net forum,. good idea.. hows your mom?
"Looks like you all believed this story, too....which turns out to be false" yes the story you link to is false,. it is a lame character assassination attempt, by fearful corporate shills, with a fetish for a military/police state run by corporate bankers.
Thank You
Energy is bad. Energy costs money, and money is bad. You are a bad man.
LMFAO!
Or as a more likely explanation for your feelings, you are simply stupid.
Everything that exists is made of energy in some form or another.
energy is bad? isnt energy the way this movement has started? I.E. the internet? if you dont like energy move the fuck into the woods. Energy is not bad. fossil fuels are bad, as your thinking.
Fossil fuels are among the greatest blessings upon mankind. And, we just found a LOT more of them in the form of natural gas! We have energy independence coming - another century of progress! Long enough to perfect nuclear energy and move forward.
I don't consider it a blessing, I consider it (and nuclear power) as several of the best energy sources we have right now. Battery technology has not significantly improved over it's lifetime, although I'd prefer it over gas or nuclear, no question.
Battery technology has not improved? Lithium ion, not an improvement over lead acid. You better do a little research on that one. That said batteries are not an energy source, they are a means of storage, so it isn't battery over gas, nuclear. Batteries have to be charged from a source.
True. Nuclear, hydroelectric, solar, etc. would be the means of power generation.
What I mean is, just when our society evolves and discovers advanced power generation, we discover vast pools of oil underground just waiting for us. And there seems to be enough of it to last for hundreds of years - long enough for us to move on to the next stage of evolution (fission/fusion).
Peak oil doesn't exist so the spin goes. Ha ha.
Converting fossil fuel to extract the stores energy releases CO2 - simple
Heightened levels of CO2 in the atmosphere changes many things.
Peak uranium happened quite a few years ago and today approx 95% of the spent waste sits in the cooling tanks because they don't have a way of disposing of it.
Fission we have and it is unsustainable into the future.
Fusion happens on the sun converting hydrogen to helium amongst other things but is unlikely to ever be a source of energy for humans for many reasons including laws of physics.
Cornucopians talk of many hopes that are without a sound basis.
The energy equation has been very well researched and allowances for many times the energy from known sources, reserves and likely sources have been allowed for, to show we will run out mid century. Even if all that is doubled it makes little difference to the problem.
Meanwhile if the pipeline down the West coast is run to transport tar sand gas then we may as well give up as the CO2 count will be past runaway changes to the biosphere.
America uses a barrel of oil a day for very 15 people, while China uses a barrel for every 175, India for every 416 and Afghanistan 63.000 people.
We emit 17.5 tons of CO2 per capita a year down from 20 tons in 2000. China 4.9 tons up from 2.7 in 2000 whiie Afghanistan less than 0.05 tons.
The answer is so simple. we reduce out energy usage, readjust the economy to include natural resources when balancing the books and redistribute wealth .
The biggest problem is not the science but the baffling ignorance that keeps denying there is a problem.
The 1% drive that as consumerism is how they milk the cow for their own profit.
Energy demand and shortage is but one of many growing problems that will cut human population drastically. The longer we carry on as we are then the smaller the resulting sustainable population will be.
John Wa ; Does anyone else here know about the reality of peak oil? What about peak rock phosphate, not to mention uranium as you mentioned, and many other resources. Thanks for helping with awareness of these issues.
There is a massive amount of information on the dire path ahead. There also is a equally massive amount of lies and BS put out by the 1% and echoed by the timid who don't want to know about what we face with decline.
Human population has increased exponentially since the industrial revolution and now is unsustainable.
It was unsustainable a century ago and serious damage is continuing to our bioshere and the potential for future food production. Forget the Monsanto ( 1% poison – but do watch the DVD “The World of Monsanto” ) hype about improved seed as their legacy has been disaster to many communities. Hydroponic alternative for failed soils is also just rubbish. Water and all the resources needed are greater in sum than good soil carefully managed.
Were alternatives available then growth and exploitation would outstrip them anyway.
On CO2 increase alone ( mainly caused by fossil fuel burning ) the rise in sea level will wipe out nearly all city ports and millions of acres of productive crop growing land. The sea is increasingly acidic absorbing CO2 and coral and other life is dying off.
The fossil fuel industry is not only irresponsible but runs a campaign of lies and corruption creating their profit from destruction. Meanwhile our infrastructure is designed to weld us to the fossil fuel and ultimately catastrophic collapse.
Presently we use 4 tons of oil to produce 1 ton of grain. We have been channeled into doing things the wrong way. The whole of our western civilization is organized to feed oil companies. We are very vulnerable. The 1% rule our existence and our demise.
Countries such as Afghanistan have a much better chance of survival and we should leave them alone. Unfortunately the atmosphere we have damaged has to be shared by all. The 1% make the profit and the 99% pay the coat. We pay for them. (They must be Commies ha ha.) The truth is the 1% love socialism because we bail them out; but they keep the profit. If they shared the profit then bailout would be viewed differently and perhaps clamps on gambling out future would also be addressed.
The world is finite.... full stop.
As we use up resources and deposits that have taken hundreds of millions of years to accumulate they will not be renewed in the time of man's future existence. The future of our children and grandchildren has been severely limited by the consumption and needless exploitation that amounts to organized destructive greed.
Some of the world's present population live close a sustainable life style but the Western world do not.
China and India are moving into a phase of emulating the disasterous pathway modeled by the USA.
The 1% are very much involved with this as they invest and control the growth of consumerism in the developing world while stripping resources for profit as fast as they can. Human life means nothing to them as they invade with megabux, mercenaries and corruption, military power and invasion, soaking up massive amount of resources creating weapons and explosives all paid for by us.
Oil, coal, metals, rare earths are prizes for the mega pirates and toxic pollution, desolation and broken communities are left. Deforestation further decimates animal species and further renders our atmosphere and soil less able to cope with repairing the life supporting air, soil, waters and the micro organisms that keep our world productive and liveable.
If we want to eat and live then look after our planet; or have can have cities where cars are needed to make a crazy short term destructive which will limit our future and all food will need to be transported to people there. You should be able to see the weakness and vulnerability we have.
A brief out line here but there are many other more detailed and informative sites.
http://www.treehugger.com/green-architecture/peak-everything-eight-things-we-are-running-out-of-and-why.html
For a better understanding do look up the 1972 report entitled “Limits to Growth” It has been reviewed many times by the scientific community to be found right on track. Even 40 years later it is right on track. “Beyond growth “ is another search
Beware the myths and propaganda against this report promulgated by the 1%. They do not want profit for now interfered with. They have NO RESPONSIBILITY for future good but are very responsible for massive future misery as they have opposed and diverted every thrust to address our overshoot.
To educate yourself looking at both sides of an argument is fundamental. Just looking for what you want to believe is common but worthless.
No answer remains immutable but weight of peer reviewed independent scientific evidence and thought accepts that the world resources are finite, the laws of physics are the best guiding principles we have and that ignorance and willed misrepresentation are our biggest problem.
The 1% have an interest in keeping us divided and ignorant consumers and we are expendable when used to further their ends.
Well said. http://www.theoildrum.com/ http://dieoff.org/
Dieoff has come a long way.
This simple audio helps those who are unsure and want an outline.
http://dieoff.org/l2.html
It is amazing how many opinions and delusions - dressed up as facts - that you were able to cram in such a small space. My hat comes off to you.
I have given up arguing with members of the warmist cult: It is religion and dogma to you, and rational science will not convince you. I don't care what you believe, just don't try to steer public policy in your delusional directions. Your true colors are that you want us all to return to some idyllic (and mythical) past that you have dreamed up. But our path is to consume prodigious amounts of energy: That, in a real sense, is what homo sapiens does. We evolved because we found a way to literally light up our brains with energy. We improved our quality of life in a couple of thousand years because we harnessed more forms of energy. It ain't gonna stop . . . .
Well whatever evidence you have based your present beliefs on do be prepared to change your understanding as you find out more about it. You owe it to yourself and others who also have to put up with the consequences of present and continuing changes.
Learning is possibly more important than arguing so personal energy directed to finding out will be the most productive.
You may not have read the recent extremely detailed most comprehensive analysis of temperature reading going back as far as records pemit. It was commissioned by a well known and leading sceptic. The results have been widely published.
My discussion has not been based on temperature and if you have read the report " Limits to Growth" you will find temperature is not a feature of the finding there either. The changes happening are not solely a factor of temperature. Check out acidification of the ocean as CO2 absorbed increases.
Over shoot of population and exploitation of resources will have consequences that limit such activity and you and I will see those consequences more plainly and restrictions increase.
Scrap metal prices rise as ore is becoming harder to find and more expensive to extract; all energy intensive activities. Water shortages are part of world increasing problems. Soil is becoming exhausted as intensive cropping and use for fertilizers has damaged the microbiotic living organism that make soil fertile.
I can give you endless references but with a search engine you can find your own and have a chance to read both sides. Consistency of evidence along with reliability of recognized scientific authority is something for you to come to terms with.
Mankind have increased population exponentially over the last 250 years. That is a relatively new phenomena and if you have had a chance to look at rapid population growth in most species there are always checks as a result of resource and environmental factors. Nothing new.
The world is finite and there is nothing hard about that.
While there is a lot to find out about I wish you good luck on the journey.
We are all in this together.
There are no "vast pools". People need to understand the decline of E.R.O.I. in oil production. Oil shales.tar sands, are not "vast pools", they aren't pools at all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_returned_on_energy_invested
Okey dokey chicken little. Go off the grid please: More power for me!
I understand your point.
we can easily make free energy using the natural force of magnets (in place of wind) to turn turbines.
Localize these and eliminate energy waste. This would essentially put large energy corporations out of business and is not promoted because of the same principal that pharmaceutical companies never investigate or develop treatments or medicine using natural medicines that people could get or even grow for themselves.
learn more at http://wesower.org --- building heaven on earth
Use "the natural force of magnets (in place of wind) to turn turbines".... WHAT?
I'm guessing you have no background in engineering.
still didn't watch the videos huh? i can create free energy... lol, obviously you can't
"Free energy" is and always will be snake oil for suckers.
and it is and always will be supplying me with power. lol
Are you referring to those YouTube videos starring hillbillies? LOL!
Show proof that you've been using this system, and that you've reduced or eliminated your power bill using nothing else. Free energy is a laugh.
Fossil fuels worked for a while and were the best technology for their times, but we have much better, cleaner technologies now, and we MUST move on from them. Avoiding moving on from them is being completely IRRESPONSIBLE and GREEDY.
Tell that to China and India.
We have NOTHING better right now. Wind and Solar are a joke, and we have shut down our own nuclear program in some kind of insane societal dysfunction. So called "green" and "renewable" energy sources are (a) environmental disasters, and (b) not feasible due to energy density and localization problems.
Portugal now produces about 52% of its' electricity from renewable energy .Maybe not so much a "joke". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Portugal
I highly doubt it. I will check out your link. Most "renewable" energy systems have gas fired backup systems with EQUAL output to the "renewable" source. They go on and off (mostly on) to make up the gaps. Absurd, but the people who actually have to produce reliable power can't just talk it into existence.
Beyond that, I think the environmental impact of these renewable sources is just too great. Give me clean combustion, that produces only harmless gases and water. Then give me nuclear energy! Clean, limitless energy.
Portugal relies largely on stored hydro. Solar thermal is much more cost efficient than PV panels. I would dispute your claim that renewables create more environmental impact, but I also know something about "peak oil". I have a feeling you will disagree on that if you have bought into "abiotic oil "silliness.
Peak oil? We are always reaching the limits of oil, right until they find yet more vast reserves. We are not running out of oil. What, then, is the driver for all this "alternative" energy stuff? Why do we need it, and why should we pay more for it?
Believe what you want. Or you could do some research. Have you heard of M King Hubbert?
I agree with FM on this one, Swiss. Nuclear and oil are several of the best means of energy production available to us, especially oil. Once solar hits the sweet spot of cost/power versus oil or nuclear, we'll see widespread adoption. That hasn't happened yet.
Oil is not used for power generation to any significant extent in the US. (less than 1%) Seems some commenters here are poorly informed.
I'm not talking about oil for power generation, obviously. As an energy source for vehicles. With electric vehicles you are generally talking about nuclear to supply the electricity.
The amount of land that would be required to scale up solar power to meet the needs of our civilization would beggar the imagination - even at 100% conversion. It would be an environmental nightmare: Loss of ground cover, huge amounts of water required to clean the panels, huge amounts of concrete to be poured, vast amounts of heavy metals needed to make the panels . . . And after that - no way to store the highly intermittent energy that is produced. It is a force fit boondoggle stimulated entirely by government money.
your an idiot
I just love it when the person calling others "idiot" fails to use the contraction "you're".
Yeah, it gives them a vent so they don't go away sore
If solar were ever to hit levels such as 40% or 50% efficiency at a much more competitive cost that we've seen, we could see a far reduced role for nuclear power plants. I'd wager local power production could be done far more efficiently, with solar panels on roofs, even used as paint on the outsides of buildings. That day may or may not ever come, that's why gas and nuke power will be around a long time.
You're so full of shit. I work for an energy company. What do you do?
I'm a physicist. Shall we dance?
I'm waiting.
No need to move on. The USA has enough natural gas, oil and coal for hundreds of years. All we have to do is go after it. The world runs on oil. Clean technology? Nice to see you buy into that scam. You're one of the useful idiots.
Whether or not the US has enough natural gas, oil or coal to run for hundreds of years is highly disputable. Also it should be kept in mind that statistics are often given in terms of "at current rates of consumption", not allowing for projected increases in demand.
oil and gas or constantly being produced by the planet. Do you really thatthe oil we use and have used is soley the result of dead dinosaures?
No. it's not dinosaurs. I just went through this with Free Markets. The rate at which the earth is producing oil is totally insignificant. Where do you think oil comes from?
The USA has enough oil, natural gas and coal for a few hundred years. We can also build nuclear reactors.
Well, you might want to read these articles. http://www.theoildrum.com/node/7075 http://futurismic.com/2009/11/18/peak-uranium-our-nuclear-future-might-be-shorter-than-we-thought/
What do you base this belief on? What are your sources of information?
It's not a belief, it's a fact. Marcellus Shale, Eagle Ford shale, Barnett shale, Bakken.
we can easily make free energy using the natural force of magnets (in place of wind) to turn turbines.
Localize these and eliminate energy waste. This would essentially put large energy corporations out of business and is not promoted because of the same principal that pharmaceutical companies never investigate or develop treatments or medicine using natural medicines that people could get or even grow for themselves.
learn more at http://wesower.org --- building heaven on earth
Other than violating multiple laws of physics at once, a fine idea!
um... did you even watch any of the videos? if you did then you would know we have already created prototype devices.
we didn't defy any laws of physics, it's pretty simple actually, magnets have natural force, they push and pull. we use that natural force to spin rotors and create energy, for free....
just for a good laugh, what laws of physics did we violate and whose gonna come after us? -- please educate yourselves, are most of you posting here part of the "occupation" -- we would hope there would be SOME intelligent life form, wow
You cannot avoid the third law of thermodynamics... sorry. It just doesn't' work that way.
Pinche - don't waste electrons on this one . . .
Good idea. ;)
that's sooooo 1800s - catch up, we can beam energy across a room now-a-days. check out the MIT website.... and are you brain dead, we already created free energy.
"Wireless electricity" is not free energy, and it suffers from a greater loss of power efficiency than direct connection via power cable.
So far you've done nothing to improve the credibility of your arguments... on any subject matter.
you just don't get it, don't get angry, try and focus if you want to understand. it's ok if you're having trouble, we've already done it.
I've already seen the results on perpetual motion machines. They're scams. All of them.
blocade: Well, since you stumbled upon our secret (we start doing this out at Area 51 in the '70's), you should know that you are pumping that energy out of the false vacuum, which connects through filament wormholes to the planet Tralfamadore: You're KILLING those people and their unicorns!!! The energy comes from their biosystems!!! STOP please!!
lol
Go stick your head in some oil, if you love it so much.
Here are some guidelines for dialogue in its most basic form We talk about what's really important to us. We really listen to each other. We see how thoroughly we can understand each other's views and experience. We say what's true for us without making each other wrong. We see what we can learn together by exploring things together. We avoid monopolizing the conversation. We make sure everyone has a chance to speak.
Do you drive a car, SwissMIss? If you drive an electric, you must keep in mind that nuclear power plants are providing your electric power, unless you are near a hydro-electric facility. It has been proven that the pollution saved by use of an electric merely shifts the production of emissions and pollutants to the power generation facility, so you are technically not really having the effect you think you are.
BS on that one." Electric cars merely shift the production of emissions and pollutants to the power generation facility". Even with today's mix they are significantly cleaner. I notice you offer no documentation. http://www.evdl.org/docs/powerplant.pdf
Worse than that, Pinche: Electric cars run on coal in almost all cases. This is what hollywood fools and liberal politicians call "emission free" energy.
Exactly. I've read the studies that confirm this paradoxical effect. Unfortunately, the studies I've read were internal documents so I cannot provide a web link.
But it make her feel good . Isn't that what counts?
Mmm, mmm good
You need to clean the filter on your sarcasm detector
more than 90 percent of our green house gases come from the combustion of fossil fuels which is a leading cause of global warming, that and fossil fuels are not a renewable energy source being that it takes millions of years to become.
There is almost no evidence whatsoever that carbon dioxide leads to "global warming". Take this from a physicist who has looked into the matter in some detail. Save the outraged response that "all the top scientists" agree - that is pure bunk. The UN and all the journalists agree, and this about it.
The National Academy of Science says otherwise http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2011/02/national-academy-of-sciences-climate-change-is-as-rea
Believe what you wish, and collect all the confirmation bias point you desire. You can't change the underlying science anymore than Al Gore can. It's a fraud.
'almost no evidence whatso-ever'??? might there be some? black hole theory, as it is; might there be some evidence??
The earth is indeed warming: We exited a global cooling period - the "Little Ice Age" in about 1900. Beyond that, we are only 10,000 years past the last ice age. This is a very good thing.
As for trace amounts of CO2 moving the climate out of equilibrium . . that is a pretty extreme thing to believe, and would require some real evidence to be accepted.
I think it is your point of view that is extreme. http://co2now.org/
Perhaps you mean you "feel" that way, because you did not address any of the facts I put out. Why use science when emotion lets you come to any conclusion you want to?
ok. you convinced me, the world of science, god, and the 1%. to think any- (is, thing,the right word?) wrong. there must be a reification / rationalistion, if not, what then of science, god, and the 1%???
Every time you exhale , you exhale carbon dioxide. Trees use that gas to make oxygen. Without carbon dioxide you would be dead.
somewhere, i have thought there was adifference between carbon- dioxide / monoxide, but who knows what science, god, and the 1% will distinguish tommarrow?
your still an idiot
That's "you're", the contraction of "you" and "are". As in "you're still an idiot".
Got it?
folks seem to think business can just abandon oil and nuclear for all this other green technology....its not economically feasible and in the long run will bankrupt companies leaving us worse off. Let the technology develop over time and get more efficient and cheaper....we still have scientists working on this stuff in labs that will one day find a new way for cheaper energy
lol, now if only the profits of oil companies were directed to researching and building renewable energy projects... the technology would develop a lot faster and we'd be breathing easier.
and gas prices would be through the roof because they will pass on extra costs to consumers....econ 101. The poor would suffer the most
sweet.
Glad to clear that up !
There is no global warming. By the way, oil is constantly being produced by the earth. "Fossil fuels" is a misnomer.
The so called "deep hot biosphere" idea that microbes deep in the crust produce oil. I think it is taken seriously, but has yet to be proven or disproven. Wouldn't that be cool?
So you're one of those "abiotic oil" believers. Now tell us about "intelligent design", "chemtrails" and "space aliens".
I'm a scientist, and hence open to all ideas, rather than stuck on in some dogmatic rut like you seem to be. There is some reason to think abiotic oil might be true, and there are other reasons not to. Why couldn't microbes synthesize hydrocarbons - is that a fundamentally radical idea? You folks here think science is "fashion" - a set of beliefs that you must share to be part of your liberal tribe. But that's not the way it works.
Yes,I think it is theoretically possible to synthesize hydrocarbons. All unrefined oil carries microscopic evidence of the organisms it was formed from that can be traced through the fossil record to the specific time periods when quantities of oil were formed. Ironic that you think this is somehow a "liberal" thing when the primary proponent of "abiotic oil" Was Dmitri Mendeleev, a soviet communist and the only place it ever gained any acceptance was The Soviet Union.
is that a paid day off or are you taking there check away from them then
Right On!
Great example!
Way to go!
BS. Solyndra maybe? What type of energy? Wind, fossil, solar, etc?
always a hater in the crowd... somewhere..c'est la vie
Try to get as many on the police force to join the strike as possible. if you could get 51% of the cops to call in sick on Nov 2 it would be a major victory. I suspect many cops all over the country agree with the protesters and yet need to keep their jobs. But if they'd just call in sick one day, Nov 2, it'd make quite a statement.
good idea “Try to get as many on the police force to join the strike as possible.”
Upvoted. Only the white-shirted "brown shirts" will show up on that day.
It would be good to think up actions which are maybe less associated with the left as a strike. The ows movement has garnered a huge support across states, across party lines. Let's be creative about ways of protesting, with good brainstorming session, the assemblies should be able to come up with a range of actions. Even small individual steps can have large repercussions, as the wonderful "slow down" action in Argentina, where on a given day, everyone started working more slowly. Protests were severely repressed but there was nothing they could do about people slowing down.
Yes, please. Make it positive. Try to remember the 1% won't be affected by almost any kind of typical strike. Remember: This is for the 99% of people. You have to understand the diversity in that group and make OWS understandable for them.
You are still in educating mode. Please don't forget that. If you think that some day of rage is going to bring down the system, please consider meds.
I hope people will be creative. The old left strategy appeals to 2 kinds of people--people who unrealistic about political opportunities and want to re-live the past and people who are young and don't know which things have tried before and not worked.
But there are new voices and new people with better ideas coming in here--I hope they will be taking a major role.
Fingers crossed! I trust the occupiers to be smart. They've been so smart about everything so far.
It has NOT garnered huge support across states and party lines. Stop kidding yourself. The liberal media loves it, and will prostitute all of you until something more interesting comes up. For many of the viewers, it's like watching a slow motion train wreck. We know how this will end.
We have already won.
Brilliant idea. So when we have thousands of pissed off workers grouped together, now we have no police to help keep order. Absolutely brilliant! I'm sure no one will end up hurt or killed because all the police are on strike and the mobs will remain absolutely calm, I'm sure!
See, the mistake idiots like you make is to assume we do not already have this many pissed off "workers". I don't know about you, but I work for a living. Why don't you step aside and let the people that made this world great, and run it now, make it even better.
The country is already mob rule, that is a fact. All countries and societies are mob rule because they are ultimately just groups of people. You think the constitution was made and is enforced by some sort of god?
The problem is that the mob that has all the power right now is the wealthiest 1%, and we don't like that. We're changing it whether they agree or not.
The mistake you make is thinking that people won't keep their faith in the system if they think the alternative is chaos.
You have a just cause and you are implying it licenses you to do anything. That is a HUGE mistake. Please look at the history of the left and its failures before you romanticize this tired model. There is an alternative to that method.
The goals I support. The methods have been used and failed miserably. It was people's egos getting in the way. Don't let ideological egomaniacs derail the movement this time.
you should have more trust in the people
You should have less trust in people.
Major victory for criminals.
Dont kid yourself, these guys get a rush from strapping on their riot gear, it takes a different kind of individual to do the job of police officer, didnt you notice the smiles on the faces of the Denver cops, ?? Best to talk to the ACLU before anyone gets too carried away with anything, unless you want to get carried away
Yea i wish i was a cop out there for a few hours id give you a reason to hate them.
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Please send me the addresses of those who will be at the protest while the police are not working.
Thanks!
See your neighbor for details, assuming they are at least slightly less idiotic than you.
Who do you think made or agrees to the laws that the police enforce, because they want those laws enforced? If it wasn't we, the people, then the laws are invalid anyway and should not be enforced.
There is by definition almost, no danger with the 99% hitting the streets. We reflect the morality of the people, period, by definition.
LOL
Not likely given the Police Union has threatened civil action against OWS if one more officer is injured dealing with the violent amongst you. You best save that 500k to pay the unions. Boy now that I think of it, what a brilliant way to funnel OWS money to the unions though. Coincidence?
Or the provocateurs and false flag agents among us. Besides, they can sue us all they want and the cannot do anything.
Even if corrupt courts side with them, they cannot enforce anything that is not just in the opinion of we the people. They already want to crush us, they already have excuses like tresspassing, the riot act etc. at their disposal, and they cannot use them because people are not fooled.
The police seem like a bunch of uneducated ego maniacs. Most understand what we are protesting against and it affects all of the us the entire world. Stopping us from what we are doing is a clear indication of the general ignorance that consumes American police.
Who exactly do they think they are protecting when they clear us out of parks? Who is giving these orders?
The world must change and we must be focused on bringing about these changes, with as ridiculous as things are throughout the world it is amazing that we haven't stopped what we are doing to fix it.
Especially the US where the population is so consumed with their little make believe world of beauty, popularity and artificial wealth - American consumerism and conscience is pitiful and we are supposed to be bringing this way of life to the rest of the globe? We are creating a world of fools!
It's also their training, they are heavily brainwashed. Many retired or ex-cops can tell you how they slowly woke up and threw off their training that had brainwashed them for all those years, and realized that what they had done was wrong. And in many cases were deeply remorseful, esp. with regards to the war on drugs activity.
But that's not enough - they are still making it that much more difficult to get democracy implemented in this country, and that matters. It is their personal responsibility to obey the constitution and not be evil, to educate themselves instead of wallowing in their ignorance.
Wow, your comment really brought out the Rambo in people! I'm glad that every right winger here is basically admitting how violent their reactionary mentality is. Thanks for doing the work of exposing you guys for us, reactionaries!
And here are some responses to their comments:
Give up the whole "you're all hippies who deserve to be bludgeoned to death" thing. Polls taken repeatedly show that the demographic of OWS includes substantial numbers of hard-working, pro-capitalist Americans who don't see anything "capitalistic" in unhinged-market sociopathology. I suppose these people need a righteous beating just because they caused the reactionaries to react - that's what we get for infringing on their right to be vicious bastards! But just some tactical advice: if you're trying to discredit the movement, you're not going to succeed this way. Since the "normal" people who support OWS probably won't appreciate what you've been saying about them, they're going to spread the real word about the movement if you keep talking trash about them.
Actually, when I was arrested at the Bridge, four out of the five cops who spoke to me said we were doing this for a good cause, and asked me no further questions (which suggests that they weren't just sympathizing to get me to admit something (not that I had anything to admit)). And the fifth, my arresting officer, was more than willing to discuss with us our concerns - he even said that his family was on our side, but that he only had reservations because our chances of success were slim. I wonder what he'd say now that we have such widespread support. Also, I have several cops in my family who have directly expressed support for us, so go figure. I don't think this necessarily means that the police will strike, but I do know that it means they're not all "hard core conservatives."
Way to show once again how tough you are, freemarkets! By the way, you don't need the addresses of the protestors to go do whatever it is you plan. They're going to be at the place where they've advertised they're protesting. Since you're a one-man army, you should be able to take them all out by your lonesome. Good thing those police (who are supposedly all on the side of hippy head-busting) won't be there to restrain you! Now go take care of business!
Yes, but you should always remember that the bosses in the hierarchy can pick and choose which officers do what. When they want to be nice, they will pick the decent cops and send them. When they want to be nasty they will pick the psychopaths and send them in to be violent.
This IMO is what gets people so confused about the police, deciding whether they are good or bad.
That is what you have to remember. When you see a line of police, they may be evil or they may be decent people and you can't be sure which one.
Sure, so when you see a line of police, what do you do? As a movement, we are nowhere near the point where violent resistance is either necessary or useful. We will lose if we attack the police, and we will win if we don't. It's that simple. It's just delusional to think the American people are sitting around just waiting for "the revolution" to begin - they're not, but they are willing to listen to people who talk to them about massive social inequality, so that's what we do. And if people see us attempting to cooperate with non-cooperative police, it looks good for us and bad for them. Not fighting the police is much better short term and long term strategy.
That is the best thing I have read on here as a response.
i am in grad school far away from most of the Occupy centers. I have a responsibility to myself to be in the place I am and be subversive when appropriate in the position i am in.
Reading something like this especially number 2, heartens me!
It seems like there are still many ignorant Americans. This is unfortunately the case because of media brainwashing and cultural "breeding" that goes on in middle America.
Think back to the American civil wars and understand that there were a large number of violent people that happened to have wealth and power and had no problem keeping slaves.
The old slave owners used their wealth to breed ignorance & regain control over the country through it's media and continue to manipulate people out of fear, direct or indirect.
They have successfully convinced Americans that they are free yet most Americans can barely go 1 month without working or else they will be homeless and starve.
If Capitalism is not an advanced form of slavery then why can't we opt out? Why do we have to suffer if the "economy" is down?
Why are we not guaranteed 40 hours of work in exchange for housing, food and health care for our family?
You are all slaves, free yourselves.
http://wesower.org
I do not want the type of """""""""""""FREEDOM"""""""""""" that you are suggesting. The gigantic quotes err because freedom is the opposite of why you are suggesting. You are promoting the opposite of capitalism. That is communism. In that wonderful government system the government controls EVERYTHING. Nothing is you own. Explain how that is freedom.
you need to learn more, you vocabulary is limited and so is your scope of understanding, "capitalism and communism are opposite" lol - really? you're too funny... you will lose claim on a tree but inherit the forest. we will all lose something and in exchange we will have gained the world.
what are you afraid to lose? you know we don't particularly need you and you do realize that no matter how much you pout about losing your, whatever, it's is inevitable.
what are you trying to hang on to again, it is a pressure cooker, perhaps a big TV so you can watch cars go round and round or a bunch of guys chasing a ball and holding one another tightly?? lol you are amusing, i give you that.
I'm afraid to lose my freedom. You won't convince me otherwise. And to me, hippies are amusing.
This blocade guy is amusing but its scary how many idiots are probably listening to him. He almost seems like a plant to discredit the movement.
your freedom to watch TV and do as it tells you, your freedom to have your opinion given to you on fox news.
please, you are a slave, if you are so free then go do what you want with your life, explore the earth, hang out in another continent and learn another language, free my A$$
or i guess selling life insurance was your dream for your time on earth. lol
sigh I'm not going to try and change your cult mentality. I know I'm right, so what you say makes you seem less and less intelligent.
The only way to guarantee you 40 hours of work is to guarantee to steal the labor and property of some other person to give it to you. Why can you not understand this?
it's you that is clueless and evil - you think in primitive terms of an old and corrupt system.
we can do better, the fact that you won't even consider trying exposes your evil.
Besides your raving prophet-from-the-desert shtick, do you ever provide an actual argument or fact?
yes, and most are working toward the same goal, no worries, you'll be able to play "i'm the man" all by your lonesome. we're off to a better world now... maybe see you there? yours is collapsing.
because you will run into natural forces like free markets and supply and demand. They have run the numbers economically for years and they will tell you capitalism is the best system for equality. Not crony capitalism like we have had for 100 years, but actual capitalism with limited regulation. I would love the idea you propose but every single important economist who runs the numbers cannot find a way economically to do so. It would require massive taxes that send businesses away and leave all jobs government jobs.
an advanced civilization would not have the problems you mention, those will cease to exist.
http://wesower.org
No such thing has ever existed, or will it. you guys can stand there till your 100 years old but that will never ever ever ever ever happen.
My favorite thing about blocadesarcasm is how he thinks he can prove a point to us by sending us to a biased, one sided, opinionated website. Doing so reveals your true evil. Ok it is pretty fun to throw around the word evil.
really? and how do you know this? you'd probably want to jump on board when people start talking about building heaven on earth, it's rather difficult to participate in our current flawed system all by yourself.
We've already started working on our new world government and aim to achieve equality, a true democracy and world peace. You'd have to have a really good explanation as to why you would be against a world peace movement.
whoaaaaaa no world government my friend. BAD idea. I like my constitution like it is, but properly enforced and used. Not destroyed like it has been.
why is that a bad idea? how long did you discuss it?
easy. societies on earth are interdependent but separate with disparate and conflicting interests. even within individual nation states there are tribes at war. look at afghanistan. individuals form tribes/communities based on mutual interests in order to further those aims and interests. then they compete against other communities for control of scarce resources. the world is too divided. we cant even make rational decisions in single nations because people cannot compromise rationally on opposing interests. Look at greece. im not trying to dissuade you from chasing that dream of yours. But thats all that it is, a dream. Here in the real world we will have to figure out how to make sense of where we go from here.
This conversation alone is enough evidence of the fact that PEOPLE CANNOT AGREE on what is right, who is right, they can't even agree on what facts are facts. The best we can do is to try to create a system where all of these flawed people can try to hash it out. In essence thats what we already have, but obviously there is something wrong with society. We need to try to realistically figure out what changes we can make within our society, which has worked pretty well for us, so well in fact that dozens of nations around the world have modeled their systems of governance on Americas. There are problems with society, but that doesnt mean we can just scrap the whole system. We need to figure out whats not working, figure out how we might improve it, and then most importantly, apply enough pressure to put those ideas into place.
There is a basis for all conflict among humans. We all have an innate need to survive and procreate.
humans are no different from animals. like birds that build colorful nests to attract mates human males are driven to do the necessary to secure theirs as well. Females do their best to attract the most suitable male. Both are interested in producing offspring and securing its survival.
it is all very primitive in fact. human conflict occurs when one group or individual feels threatened by others. like animals, humans will fight over food and resources and for the ability to mate.
current market systems and government capitalizes on human nature and there is no doubt that as advanced as we think we are, we are still using force to seize resources from others.
without realizing it humans have let themselves be manipulated into believing that a few people can actually own all of the resources of the earth.
it doesn't matter who thinks they own what or who believes they are right. we are moving on to something new where the old world does not exist, once we connect, there is only us.
so do you want to work toward world peace with us? are you capable of freeing yourself from consumerism?
Someone has totally screwed your mind up kid.
"humans are no different from animals."
Do animals know philosophy?
Do animals have society?
Do animals learn multiple other animals languages?
Do animals have deities?
You're forgetting a very important detail...
WE ARE COGNITIVE
Cognitive:
1:of, relating to, being, or involving conscious intellectual activity (as thinking, reasoning, or remembering)
2:based on or capable of being reduced to empirical factual knowledge.
You sir are the definition of insane, and have just lost all validity to any argument you have tried to make up to this point and I'm not sure how many people will take you seriously after this.
are you saying that you are not an animal?
Yes, that is exactly what I am saying.
Are you saying animals possess the things stated in my last post?
Well I think, personally, we should just make sure that the governments of countries of people that say they want democracy, have real democracy, and then just try to work together.
Ultimately good, democratic government is just about working together (in contrast to other forms where the rulers have to impose their will by force) .
So world government of a non-coercive form arises naturally. Leave it to the countries to figure things out between themselves once they have democracy in them.
My gripe with "world government" is that it implies a uniform system of laws, which inhibits experimentation and freedom. Imagine what would have happened to wikileaks if there was a uniform legal code - they would not be able to shop for freedom they way they have. The variety is just not there - but variety has intrinsic value.
Indeed,world government is the antithesis of the concept of separation of powers, one of the the most inspired concepts of the Founding Fathers.
we are not including any current world government - we are connecting directly with people, governments are nothing more than tools for the top 1% - they will be no more.
I hear you, especially about the brainwashing. There's a debate in the NY Times today where (count 'em) two "Christians" openly argued that Evangelicals should campaign for raising the American defense budget. One went so far as to say that increasing our nuclear arsenal was a good thing. I've read and taught the Bible for years, and let me tell you, there's nothing in the New Testament that endorses that position, period. Jesus was violent one time, when he overthrew the tables of the moneychangers in the temple. One time (!!!!), and it was an act of violence against the abuse of money. On the other hand, there are no less than 1200 statements that helping the poor should be the main concern for the faithful. But somehow American "Christians" have decided that, no, nuclear armageddon is the most Christian option (as Jerry Falwell once said, he doesn't care about nuclear war because he knows he'll be in heaven, uh, despite his enormous wealth). There's no other word for what causes this kind of belief than "brainwashing."
I agree. I don't get how those who are supposed to be holy, religious, whatever they want to call themselves, are the biggest proponents of war, violence, rage, etc. Because of that and many other reasons, I never ever will have anything to do with any religion. Most (if not all) are nothing but cults and brands of mind control and manipulation.
Those who are 'holy,religious, etc.' are sinners just like everybody else. It is the real Christian who admits this. Those who don't are the fake religious persons trying to confuse the good that comes from Christianity. Dont be tricked into thinking that the pious 'fakes' represent the true belief. That would be just like saying that OWS is a movement of the rich 1%, trying to further corrupt the system rather than the 99% trying to change it.Even the religious fakes were the enemy of Jesus. Remember, they killed him in the name of holiness. They were the opposite of holy and tricked the secular (and some of the religious) system into thinking that Christ was demonic, the very thing he came to stand against. "Beware, I [ Jesus] send you out as sheep in the mist of wolves".
"Those who don't are the fake religious persons trying to confuse the good that comes from Christianity." That's mostly who I see being connected with religion. I see very few people who truly are good people and who are really religious. I hear that all the time from people, but it seems to me that the majority of people who are religious are fake.
You should get out more.
Other cults include the green movement, libertarian socialism, and all that rot
Should we have opposed the Germans in WWII, then?
Nice try. Three things:
We didn't use nuclear weapons on Germany.
I didn't say we should have no national defense whatsoever. Saying we shouldn't rush headlong towards armageddon is not saying we should not defend ourselves or our allies when they're attacked, nor is it saying we shouldn't try to stop genocide. For forty years, we've entered anti-nuke agreements, and for forty years we've tried to get around them at every step. There is no sense - period - in having an arsenal that can literally destroy all life on this planet. Total nuclear disarmament is the ONLY reasonable ideal, and you can say that it's impractical, but it's still a reasonable ideal. That's how ideals work: they give you goals that you strive toward even if they're not entirely achievable (like "free markets").
Ask yourself this before you cite WWII. If stopping genocide is a moral imperative (and I think it is - I'm not sure you do, except when you need to sound like you do), why didn't the US intervene in Cambodia, East Timor, Rwanda, Sudan, Turkey in the 90s, the Congo...? Why did the US support all of the Latin American juntas and countless African and Middle Eastern dictators? Why did we invade Vietnam or Iraq? Each of these situations has had a death toll that may not individually reach the level of the Holocaust, but altogether they exceed it, and each is directly attributable to our action or our negligence.
But, hell, we did fight WWII, so that clears us of everything else for the rest of time. God, you're disingenuous!
Other countries have nuclear weapons. What the heck is a "reasonable ideal"? You can't wish away other people's weapons: Disarmament is not only practical, it is immoral. We have an obligation to protect the citizens of this country. "Peace through strength" is not only logical, it is proven to work: We never went to war with the Soviets because they never doubted our ability and intent to counterstrike.
Disarmament treaties were signed with other countries. That's the "agreement" part. Nuclear warfare will not protect anyone except the people who can afford to and have the insane desire to live in bunkers. Yes, no one did anything. No, it doesn't make the ideal less reasonable.
And you know damn well what a "reasonable ideal" is, even if you don't agree on the ideal. People like you only ask semantic questions when they want to dodge the point. A 'reasonable ideal" is a goal for activity that is practicable and just. Since everyone who signed the NNPT agreed in doing so, it seems that all parties to that treaty seemed to think it was both practicable and just. Let me help you with two more words: "practicable" means a plan of action one is capable of undertaking, and "just" means according to each what he deserves (in this case, it was agreed that the final goal of disarmament was something all interested parties - i.e. each person in the world - deserved). I'd keep going, but you wouldn't be asking seriously anyway. Just feel free to react hysterically to the fact that I used the word "plan."
And we have no idea why we never went to war with the Soviets - the fact that it didn't happen can't be used to prove the reason why it didn't happen, and we'll never know the reason because it's far beyond human comprehension.
Every new weapon in history has changed the balance of power - from the hand axe onward. Can you look back and envision any disarmament treaty - perhaps in the Bronze Age, for example - that would not have caused the annihilation of the "gullible" side? It's easy for you to rail against the empire as you live in an unprecedented cocoon of peace and security - like the adolescent railing against his parents. In the real world there are people who respond only to force.
Adolescents grow up and survive their parents. What makes you so sure you're not the aging senior and I'm the full-grown adult living in the contemporary world?
How can you expect anyone to take your spin seriously?
You're not asking seriously, but I'll answer anyway. It's been central to the positions of both the libertarian right and left that, on the whole, humanity has tended toward a more peaceful, ameliatory disposition, which justifies the imposition of the "rule of law" instead of retaliatory punitive measures (including the right's favorite example of unjust retaliation - redistributive taxation). This guy constantly comes on here posting two sets of extremely contradicting claims: one, that there should be no government intervention in anything because individuals can always take care of themselves and, two, we should have an enormous military that invades other countries any time they're (somehow) opposed to "freedom" (that very special and widely unaccepted "freedom" of the libertarians - the "freedom" that mainly consists in justifying an ultimately immoral lack of consideration for one's neighbors, for the extent to which each and every one of us rests on the efforts of others, and that simply repaying them whatever small amount of cash we can use our leverage to extort is enough to cover it...). Basically every serious, market-lovin' libertarian (Herbert Spenser, von Mises, Hayek, Nozick, and the Pauls) have come out against excessive defense expenditure. Their whole position that "markets will solve everything" was predicated on the 18th century idea (Montesquieu, Smith, Hume) that commerce was inherently civilizing. Libertarians who want to keep their guns in order to "secure" their money are missing one of the only decent things their forebears said.
Let's go further. Let's say that it's still a dangerous world, and that "it's human nature to be violent" (which ignores the enormous majority of the time when most people aren't violent). Does this justify a nuclear arsenal? Nuclear war will annihilate not only the vast majority of the present population of the earth, but make it virtually uninhabitable for the rest, and for future generations. This, aside from the fact that most victims will be the very same people who didn't ask for nuclear war, and couldn't afford the Skousen approach of bunkering down with all of your cash. It's, simply, blatantly psychopathic to avoid even trying to reduce the world's nuclear stockpiles in the name of "safety". Most of the threats we currently face (and even R. Paul is on my side on this - it's not a purely leftist position, at all) are small-scale and not something we can secure against with a cold war arsenal. One of the main impediments to nuclear disarmament is the United States. The main reason U.N. sanctions and treaties are inefficient is because we have refused to comply, even when we see other nations complying (I hate it when people tell me to read something they assume I haven't read because I disagree with it, but it's different in the case of the actual historical record - read any book on the history of the US's compliance with the ABM treaty; we were the ones who have tried to get out of it since the 90s, not the Russians). And it's because of the same bullshit Rambo mentality that plagues the right, and makes them oblivious to real facts: we get to have our (neoliberal) toys, and we don't care if we have to annihilate the fucking species to keep 'em.
But let's get to the real point - you and freemarkets assume a lot about your inherent maturity. You probably think you're taking the "practical" position, which you somehow associate with being an adult. We're all supposedly children, simply for disagreeing with you. There's more than enough evidence to support our positions, and when we offer it, you ignore us and retrench by repeating the same tired mantras, generated from nowhere. It's not "practical" and it's certainly not "adult" never to change your opinions in the face of any facts - it's what kids do.
You are wise. It is truly unfortunate that people have been manipulated is such a way. They have been fooled into believing that "God" is some mystical & magical creation and perform mental gymnastics to convince themselves that they are somehow living in accordance with the "way" of the chosen.
It is quite insane.
Rather than building this "heaven" on earth, which by the way, would be quite easy to do once we can relieve ourselves of corrupt leadership and agree to finally become a civilized people, they instead put it off as something we can only get in the "afterlife" -- how convenient for those who wish to maintain power over us.
Seriously, what is it they are even expecting in heaven? That they will meet the rest of the "good" humans and experience total and complete bliss forever and ever? Wouldn't that mean we no longer have free will or emotions? It's almost like being on a constant high, no?
I can't wrap my head around the fact that humans are so gullible. I mean really? They center their attention on this guy "Jesus" who was basically an activist that recognized how the political and economic system was oppressing people and tried to help them.
Now that there are essentially thousands of "Jesus" they get ridiculed and called socialist?? WTF what's wrong with socialism again?? isn't that the creation of a government by the people for the people? Under socialism maybe we can all be guaranteed a 40 hour work week in exchange for basic needs for our family?? We aren't guaranteed that under our current capitalist system, which one would "god" choose.
simply mind boggling the "right" American perspective is.
Not all Republicans or "righties" are hell-bent on creating Armageddon, as unbelievable as that might seem. Ron P, for example. Gary Johnson, for example.
Yeah, I should have qualified. I definitely don't think all American Christians are so enthusiastic about Armageddon. But there is a huge contingent of them that is; one of the Times respondents said first on the list of things Evangelicals should support is increasing our nuclear arsenal. That said, his view certainly doesn't represent all evangelicals, and many of them are very supportive of us.
Wow they really arent hiding anymore are they?
Socialism: eventually, you run out of rich people to take money from.
no monetary system, aww poo, you can't be better than the Mexicans down the block no more, shucks... it's ok, you already can't be better than the chinese or indians that are talking all the high paying high skilled jobs from your "American" capitalist companies that are fattening their pockets with just a little bit cheaper labor from the evil immigrants across the ocean...
yeah, see how a system that does not use money will solve everything... probably not, you have proven yourself to be rather dense or completely evil. it's ok, we don't need you, no one does. lol
Boy you need to find out some facts and quit with the cult talk. Starting with why so many jobs are sent away. You are being used.
You realize that it is their governments that are rich. The majority of their people are very poor.
you realize that now Americans have finally become the victims of their oppressive capitalist system and they are completely confused...
"American" companies choosing to do business overseas and hire more qualified and intelligent workforces for less (outside of America) hahahahhaha - the irony... they aren't coming back, they abandon you and now find new tricks to squander your tax dollars, great country, truly blessed, lol
If you think you can build "heaven on earth",you are far too idealistic my friend. I am not defending the status quo, Things do need to be changed. Total equality is an ideal. We can work toward it, but I would stop short of promising or expecting "heaven".
then you are a coward. We are an advanced and civilized people and world unification and peace is inevitable. Our current system is based on corruption.
to stand against is it to reveal your evil -- http://wesower.org
You sound like a fundamentalist preacher.
sure -- (insert generalized term here) -- and you sound like the average nobody who knows nothing about anything. go figure
Good luck getting converts with hate and derision. If pointing out that humans and human constructs are fallible makes me "evil"and a "coward", in your judgement,good luck with that.
We plan to work on building a true global democracy and bringing about world peace and you are against us.
You are well aware that the current system of rule brought us to where we are, perhaps you are not aware of the history of civilizations and so you are ignorant to the fact the world unification is inevitable and that world peace can be achieved.
there are many issues with your capacity to think intelligently
To call someone evil is an attempt to dehumanize them. Once a person or group has been dehumanized then all manner of vile treatment becomes possible. By refusing to see those who disagree with you with empathy you debase yourself and your cause.
Here is the essential point (and I'm not even a Christian): Jesus was not a socialist. He did not say you should give one man ANOTHER man's coat, he said to give him YOUR coat.
jesus was just a dude trying to help people out of poverty and oppression. though the situation is the same today the circumstances are different. We don't need to know or do what jesus did, we have to work according to the times.
For the first time in human existence we can connect across the globe as people, free from corruption and propaganda. We will absolutely build a true world democracy and bring about world peace and heaven on earth. To stand against us is to reveal your evil.
We are not buying anything other that what we need to survive. Capitalism needs to oppress the many so that the few can have access to a bunch of garbage they don't need. Technology itself will destroy capitalism as it has already started doing. We will help it end sooner.
We are going to build heaven on earth and we have faith in ourselves and one another, we don't need any make believe gods or corrupt government or officials to help us, we can do this ourselves.
Stand against us and you would have revealed your evil
Wow, most Amerian can't go 1 month without working? People work for money, it pays the bills. How do you pay your bills or do you expect someone else to that ? Capitalism is great. The constitution guarantees equal opportunity NOT equal outcome. What you do with your life is up to you. America is a success story because of our Constitution and capitalism, NOT in spite of them.
Give the man a cigar, you just graduated from kindergarten!
Like blocade said, brainwashed. You don't think people should be able to save up more than a couple thousand bucks to have in reserve? Moron.
Saving is thrift. There is a difference between buying what you need and buying what you want.Sometimes the converge, sometimes they don't.
What the hell are you talking about? "people should be able to save . ." - what is preventing them from doing that? Bankers? Just freakin delay gratification for a while and save the money.
Sheesh
after reading this, i don't think you guys disagree, you're seeing different colors of the same painting. imo
Success by what measure? America has only been in existence for spec of time compared to other empires. This is only the first chapter (time wise), the story is far from over.
Measured against all other countries and their standard of living. Compare any of them to ours.
you dont pay your bills. you lose everything you own. what is hard to understand about that? and yes. opportunity. that means there has to be jobs.
no America is a success story for Americans who used their military might to impoverish and oppress other weaker nations and enslave their people in cheap labor so that we could have access to a bunch of junk we don't need.
America would be nothing without slavery and oppression, that is what capitalism is about and Americans are fools to call themselves Christians, they care only for themselves.
The current system failed and people are waking up to the evil that they have supported.
We are not going to stop until there is global revolution, you should join us now otherwise you'd have a pretty hard time explaining why you were against true democracy, world peace and basically building heaven on earth, especially if you are a right wing Christian fanatic.
'i dream of a world where the chicken can cross the road without having to explain his motivation'
Blockhead should be your screen name. It fits you perfectly
Who filled your head with this junk?
Oh, get over yourself miniMarx. Try to conceive what it would look like if the US actually exercised their military might to "oppress" other nations. There would be a huge transatlantic pipeline to the middle east sucking up all their oil, and there would be large smoldering ruins anywhere that resisted us. Quit being such a drama queen.
we are going to build heaven on earth -- to stand against us is to reveal your evil.
Do you know who wrote the last energy bill, or who wrote the code of health in the US? it was big oil companies and biotech/pharma. what does that tell you about your precious little government?
You can try and support whatever it is you think you live in but it won't be around much longer and I guess you don't want to work toward world peace with us, you must fear losing your jewelry, or perhaps you currently oppress others yourself and don't want to lose that privilege... in either case to stand firmly against world peace, unity, freedom and equality is to reveal your evil
To say you want to bring down a great country is to reveal your evil. To do nothing but call people evil is to reveal your evil. I mean, learn a new line. Stop copying and pasting from whatever propaganda site you visit.
to stand against world peace and support a failed and oppressive system is evil... i'll say it over and over again, and by the way, we are succeeding.
To do nothing but call people is evil. To stand against working for a living is evil. To stand against freedom is evil. So shut the hell up.
it's ok, we're boycotting capitalism out of existence and all plan to work, but instead of picking a dum dum career that involves selling crap to one another or conning people out of their livelihood we will be able to pick and choose what we want to do and actually enjoy going to "work" and contributing to making our world better, not capitalizing the less fortunate, like you want to do. - you are evil but fooled yourself into thinking otherwise.
like we said before, we are doing this and there is nothing any evil doer such as yourself can do about it.
We have seen the human misery that follows inevitably from where you want to take things.
you have never seen a true world democracy where there is no need to fight over resources.. no one has, but you will soon, and your children will thank you for working for it, for them...
Boy you guys sure don't have a sense of humor. Let me spell it out for you. The protesters won't be home. The police won't be working. Ergo, robbers can go to their homes and steal their stuff.
Glad to be of service.
Thanks, but not true if some on Wall Street and elsewhere collectively help create a system which results in making the "their stuff" either already gone or of minimal resale value. (Oh, wait... Maybe that already happened?) The success of robbers is dependent on the economic works in place as well. The course of good and evil are not determined by which jersey or hat you wear, but rather by the many idly allowing new scams to thrive by passing no law with which to thwart them. Redistribution of wealth to the top is the kind of social engineering which permits the few to shout down the masses, making a mockery of liberty for "all" and democracy. Allowing such slight of hand schemes not to be legally "stealing" continues unless we act to make it so. Someone must politely yet firmly speak up about such injustices, or what's a First Amendment for?
I speak up for ending corruption. The 99ers will not allow mob rule. Our faction represent the 99ers and we need to do a good job of this. We commission Jason Bourne as a duty given us in our Declaration of Independence. We are to provide New Guards for our future security. These guards have been developed by 99ers in other countries 200 years ago. They have been refined, tested and proven to end corruption. Two states have already adopted this system. These plenipotentiaries demand nothing. It is we who mandate our New Guard. If there is abuse advancements and pay are halted for 5 years. Any further abuse and they are removed permanately. Same with any other gov. agent or rep. All other untested means have proven to fail. We cannot experiment as protestors / reps of the public. The public needs to know what we are doing has been proven to work in 25 OECD nations.
If you want to end corruption , why aren't you in front of the White House?
Because I've seen that old movie, the Wizard of Oz, and the line "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain" doesn't affect me all that much. Or, as Deep Throat would say in real life, "Follow the money." The guys who drove the economy into the ditch were the people writing billions in CDO's, which of course are not really insurance to rely on in case things went south, and therefore did not protect anything. The real purpose apparently was to collect payments for something that ultimately had no value to the payers. Those people doing stupid things with money are the ones I want handcuffed so they don't do it again, so I'm standing outside pointing out the perp to anyone with eyes. Congress passes law, not the White House.
Congress passes bills which don't become law until the president signs them.
Thanks, because that's my whole point: to stop a bad torrent of events, you should go upstream to the source of the problem. If you want to dam the Mississippi, your best shot is to do that up in Minnesota, before it can get too far from Lake Itaska and pick up momentum. We should stop bad laws in Congress. Stop destructive uses of money at their source.
There is an occupy DC, idiot.
Yes, all 10 people.
nobody goes in front of corrupt power without the consent of everyone. This system gives that consent.
The real robbers are the 1%ers already in portesters home with assurance of the police force protection .
Definitely. There are corrupt assholes in the ranks of our police forces, yes; that's true of any profession, it's just a part of life. But there are just as many who are just doing what they can to feed their families as well. If even a few of them stand with us, it'll be a major point. Half the world is watching.
When shit floats to the top, hearts sink.
Don't hold your breath.
Hold up little signs toward the policemen saying: "No police brutality, please !" "I am non-violent, how about you ?" "We're in this together, so keep cool." "This is an emergency, please help us." "We want higher pay for public servants."
Or something in a similar vein. But, keep in mind the fact that the police confronting you is trained not to listen, but to obey orders. Their superiors are certainly painting us as threats. Also some of the police may be quite eager to finally participate in their own little "War on Terror" and let off some steam.
in my opinion the best way to stop police brutality and corruption is to pass laws to end police unions. You wont believe what they are able to do to keep cops who are known bad guys employed. Ask the Fraternal Order of Police and the police unions how they feel about the war on drugs....they will tell you it should be a no go not for morality sake...but because cops will lose jobs! Not exactly liberty lovers.
The 99ers will not allow mob rule. Our faction represent the 99ers and we need to do a good job of this. We commission Jason Bourne as a duty given us in our Declaration of Independence. We are to provide New Guards for our future security. These guards have been developed by 99ers in other countries 200 years ago. They have been refined, tested and proven to end corruption. Two states have already adopted this system. These plenipotentiaries demand nothing. If there is abuse advancements and pay are halted for 5 years. Any further abuse and they are removed permanately. Same with any other gov. agent or rep. All other untested means have proven to fail. We cannot experiment as reps of the public. They need to know what we are doing has been proven to work in 25 OECD nations.
I will pass on any of you running the country I live in. Socialism is the last thing I want to see happen. If it is so great, why is this ex-Soviet a founding member of the Tea Party, and taking on OWS people on the streets. He totally disagrees with them. http://mrctv.org/videos/former-soviet-citizen-who-confronted-occupy-wall-street-socialists-talks-fox-news
99ers are not running our country. Our country gave you a duty to provide a New Guard for our future security. There are no detractors so no need to pass on your duty.
I have no desire for socialism. I like our democracy. It is not perfect, it is in constant flux, true. However, this is the greatest nation on Earth. The quicker we get rid of Obama, who has spent more money and ran up more debt in the last 3 years, than all 8 of GW Bush. I didn't care for his spending either, but at least I felt like he really cared about America. I get the feeling Obama is trying to wreck this country. On purpose!
Sounds like you've been programmed by Fox so called News. The country you live in is gone, not in flux. This is a kakistocracy run by an oligarchy. No democracy. Sorry to inform you.
We need more COWBELL!!!!!
??!!
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I just gotta have more Cowbell
It's that fever . . . and you know the only cure is . . . .
more cowbell!
Babies, come on...I mean, I put on my pants one leg at a time lie everyone else. But after I put on my pants...I go on strike from making gold records.
I mean, really.. explore the space. I like what I'm hearing. roll it.
Babies.. before we're done here.. y'all be wearing gold-plated diapers
One of the best Will Ferrel bits ever (to say nothing of Christopher Walken).
Walken makes everything watchable, even if it sucks he still pulles of his roll awesomely.
The cops are not calling in sick. Have you ever talked to a cop?
I have a lot of friends who are really wonderful police officers and support OWS. Painting all of them with the same brush is prejudice.
I know a couple of cops.they never call in sick. They'd have to be on deaths door.They love the thrill.the rush. Its like snorting cocaine for them!
Haha. My thoughts exactly. As much as they SHOULD be on your side, cops are the last people who are going to help OWS in any way.
So now you guys have super human mind reading powers.
no, we just talk to cops.
Wow all cops, you guys are amazing, no wonder you are so wise and all knowing, I'm so jealous I really wish I knew what all people were thinking all the time. Then I could just go around making decisions for everyone because since i can read everyone's mind I know whats best for them. And then when i go around making large general statements about people based on what I personal now about them because I have taken the pain staking time of reading their minds,please don't mistake this for passing judgement on people I have never even talk to in my life. I know it looks very similar to prejudging people based on key elements about them that make them unique and easy to group them into a simple stereotype that everyone will easily recognize and instantly despise which will make our job easier to accomplish. But remeber we are special and we know what everyone is thinking cause we are revolutionaries.
Wake up! You have more similarities then differences to the people you so claim you against.
Cute. Now go talk to a cop or two to get their perspective on anarchy and mob rule. Until you people figure out what you are demanding that is all that you are - a mob.
So one or two represent all. So if I meet one that agrees does that mean all of them agree. Your logic is a simple representation of how alike you are to those you point at in disgust.
As long as people keep pointing and thinking they understand everyone else (including me) you and I have already lost.
No i dont think they wanna join a mobs of kids with video cameras surrounding them and orovoking them while chanting the whole world is watching. Discusting
yeah, well they will eventually have to get it. We are changing the government in America and freeing it from corruption. If they stand against us they are against world peace and freedom. They don't need to call in sick, simply assemble with the protesters instead of against them.
With the magnitude of corruption and the need for change being so immediate (and eminent) it is confusing to me how they would dare fight us?
brain damage, fear??? what the ....?
Honestly, once we have changed the government we should put all those who stood against the movement on trial for abuse of office and failure to protect basic human rights.
And seriously, the protesters in Oakland should march over to the police headquarters and demand that ALL of the officers resign. Maybe get to them before they put on their uniforms (when they are people and not evil villans) The cops get paid from public money, so the public should decide whether they stay or go.
Calm down, this is not about the police! I think your red-hot rhetoric is nonproductive, especially "once we have changed the government we should put those who stood against the movement on trial....". Getting a little ahead of yourself wouldn't you say? "March" to a police station and demand all the police resign? This movement isn't about the police, don't be distracted
it should be about the police as much as anything. They have been compliant as our country has become a police state and as they ignore their constitutional duty to only enforce laws that obey the constitution. They are the front line as they help turn us into the highest prison population in the world....most of this violence cause is rooted in the war on drugs. The symptoms they try to treat fail time and again and now its time to go back to the default position; liberty and freedom....even to do bad things to your own body. A police officer needs to be less ignorant and more well read...i have talked to so many who couldnt even name any real part of the bill of rights...so they enforce blindly not knowing their ignorance is part of the problem. I think Oath Keepers need to help with the Occupy movement...true cops and soldiers who know that the Bill of Rights applies to all americans, regardless of color or ethnicity.
This is not police state or you would have been out day 1, I think that's pretty obvious.
than why do we have the highest percentage of imprisoned citizens? Sorry, it is a police state when you can be locked up for crimes that have no victims...read the Bill of Rights my friend.
Because of people like the ones in these mobs. Obama will make it one soon im sure and youll get what you want. All our freedom will be gone but you kids will all get a well deserved beatdown.
Totalitarianism (or totalitarian rule) is a political system where the state recognizes no limits to its authority and strives to regulate every aspect of public and private life wherever feasible.[1] Totalitarian regimes stay in political power through an all-encompassing propaganda disseminated through the state-controlled mass media, a single party that is often marked by personality cultism, control over the economy, regulation and restriction of speech, mass surveillance, and widespread use of terror.
if you were right we would not even be having this conversation.
Changing the definitions of words does not make you a revolutionist.
then what is it we have? a fair society where we can be left alone? When u have this many people imprisoned there is something wrong with the system you live under.
Ok I agree with that, but it's still not a police state, the situation is bad enough without having to make up stuff up to prove your point.
My ungr8ful brother, Rufus is correctomundo. Please peruse my post from a few days ago. :)
OK. My turn. I am the 99%. While I live here, was born and raised here, I AM NOT CANADIAN. I cannot be, because I am not in support of the crookedness that Canada fosters and perpetuates.
I'm a 42 year old, 4th year Honours student of Sociology/Criminology with plans of snagging an Education degree en route towards a Masters and PHD in Sociology/Criminology.
The System, does not work. It hasn't worked for decades. The system wants to stay the same, because in failing, it succeeds. ....by increasing the bottom line.
If Crime rises...then that's a failure of our attempt to reduce crime. However, it equates to success for our Governments, because they expand the budget, hire more corrections, policing, judges, lawyers, victims services people, probation officers, counsellors, make everything illegal to widen the net to fill the new prisons! Then they instill fear in everyone by highly publicizing the rare, severe crimes. Most of our little old ladies get scared, and vote for the dude with the biggest crime bill on the platform.
My mom taught school here in Saskatchewan for 35 years. My dad died in 1984. I'm a high caliber athlete and a bodybuilder. I've tried over 50 different jobs from 1987-1997 and got nowhere. I've held 3 jobs since at approximately 5 years each. I'm a highly driven humanitarian, mature, responsible, parent, acquaintance, friend, student, person. I'm the good guy. A monstrous, globally recognizable corporation saw fit to fabricate a conspiracy and terminate me a month before Christmas last year. I'm educated, i'm an elite producer whether in sales or labour. I may win the arbitration, but the corporation will continue to seek out potential firings.
Our Crown Corporations in Saskatchewan boast profits of $95M to $150M annually.(or more, haven't looked lately)
They are the 1%.
For those of you who have never had to call on the system ( ie. police, family court, criminal court, social services, medical care, educational system, government insurance), I think you'd be appalled at how it really operates.
From police coercion to create crime, and impede decent people...to, pyramid scheming insurance agencies (they don't actually cover you if you're hurt in a motor vehicle accident-my mom paid herself out of her own savings because she, volunteered to be rear ended on the freeway by a 16 year old driver's 3rd accident in her first year of driving.
My mom, who served Canada as a teacher for 35 years, is permanently disabled, yet has been tortured by the rehab facility (that the crown insurance company uses exclusively) denied any insurance coverage, forced to deplete her own savings to compensate. They pit their doctors against public doctors and simply deny reality to keep the money. Try to argue it upwards and you are squashed because they make their own rules.
Levels of Bureaucracy need to GO.
I've had to make several appearances in family court over 8 years for lawyers and judges to take my family's money, and render idiotic decisions that are designed to hinder situations, and perpetuate the problem....so that they can bill us again! JUST TO BE MY SON'S FATHER I'm a man. I can make my own decisions about what's best for my child. How come my Fellow Man, the lawyer, the judge, the counsellor, the social service worker, the nurse, the doctor, the teacher..... .....ALL FEEL THE NEED TO FUCK US OVER...EVERY TIME WE COME TO THEIR COUNTER WITH OUR DOUGH OUT?? WHY!!!??
Why do chiropractors twist you into pain...and schedule you for '3 more appointments'?....why do rotten counsellors and psychologists and doctors and psychiatrists and all such leeches, keep scheduling more appointments? Are they incapable of solving the professional issues they face?...or do they simply choose not to help?
FYI, our chiropractic visits were mandated in the last 2 years and increased from $17 per visit to $35 per visit overnight. No wonder the chiropractor wants to injure us....more visits=more dough for him/her/ Here in Saskatchewan, these professions are protected by peer organizations that will cover their asses. Further, these professions, are contracted by our local government....these professions want to bill our government as much as possible...but if they solve your individual problem for you, they won't be able to bill the government for your visit....next week....and the week after.....
We are advanced and educated human beings. We are thinkers. We see how the 1% operates.
Greed is the problem. Bureacracy is the problem. Individual people who keep mistreating their fellow citizens by stealing their money are the problem.
The 1% like Greed. They like Bureaucratic stagnation. They like hiring dummies who can't or won't think for themselves, or for their fellow human. I could go on....but we need MORE ACTION!!!
OWS is right. We need a different system. We need to be more than pawns of the 1%. We are creative. We are feeling. We are not possessions. We are not things.
We are PEOPLE!!
WE ARE THE 99% EH!!!
I sorry you feel like a pawn, But I don't. Was there A time in my life that I did. Hell yes, and i was a very angry young man(I'm 40 now) but then I realize that a large chunk of my problems were based on my bad mistakes , my lack of judgement, at that in reality a small % of my problems were due to the world around me. I have meet people that have been in worse situation then mine and achieved way more then I ever though possible. And I have met people that had everything handed to them and they did not accomplish anything.
Is there any way that you can see where I am coming from. Obviously there are problems that need to be fixed. But can you see how some people find it hard to just jump in and say all our problems are based on other people. For some people like me it goes against their very nature as independent self efficient member of society to be blaming all their problems on someone else.
Whatiswrongwithyou? Nothing against you my man. Not sure if you have a point there. The continent I live on, exhibits massloads of people, ripping each other off on every resale possible...make your $34000, make your $150000...at the end of the day...profit seekers want every dollar you earn....if you can't see that on the path you've walked.....shrug....
If at any point in your life you made more than 34 grand, you were the one percent of the world. You opressed the peoples in all the different countries. See how that feels, being wrongly accused of something because of the amount of money you worked hard to make? It not fun, is it?
well, i urge you ungr8ful....to enroll in sociology...read about colonialist settlement, capitalism, industrialization, crime, social control, bureaucracy...after you are done all the reading....look at the world around you...reflect on your experiences....better yet, try to imagine the experiences of others.....who, have been infringed by the ever widening net cast upon our freedoms...and our finances...companies have milked my talent for their profits....not for my well being....next. OCCUPY!
there are no crimes without victims, to think other-wise, is to believe there is greed without exploition.
Are you retarded or something? Marijuana charges result in a some odd 50% of our prison population? So me smoking my marijuana in my back yard is killing all of the kittens in the world? Marijuana a plant that does 1000x more good than bad. A plant that is illegal due to greed and profits and maintained its illegal state because of the same reasons even when people realized it was good. A plant that is arguably the most useful plant in the WORLD!?! I don't see a victim in me smoking pot. And don't come up with some bullshit story about drug running and all the people killed by moving weed. Its not coke buddy its grown everywhere -__- even in my closet. If marijuana being illegal is not a sign of our government's legal system being corrupted to the core then idk what is. have a nice day
Please do not use retarded as a swear word. I have people in my family who have learning disabilities, and such awful prejudice has managed to hurt their confidence and self esteem. We claim to be part of the SOLUTION, not the problem.
WOW I do in fact feel for you, but it was in no mean intentionally used to offend an actual "retarded" person. It may be a bit immature and rash to quickly be offended by what I read and respond in the instinctual way I did, but in the modern world language has evolved and words mean more than their definition.
Thanks very much for your reply. I felt it was necessary to speak up (as I do all the time in conversations). I've realized that "retarded" is the one swear word that even the most educated people feel completely at liberty to use. Even people who'd never use racist, sexist epithets continually use "retarded" and "retard," which only shows the extent of the prejudice (and lack of a movement, for understandable reasons). Remember that remark by Obama that bowling (or some other sport, I forget which) for him was like being in the Special Olympics, because he wasn't any good at it. These prejudices (and those against people with "invisible," mental illnesses) are deeply entrenched. So I do appreciate your understanding and kind reply.
Thanks very much.
again, perhaps we have a different understanding of crime, victim, greed,exploitation? from my perspective the drug message,whether legal / illegal is the same: take this and pain will go away, and they work short term. long term - destruction. again, i say perhaps we have a different understanding.
with that type of thinking we might as well all be evil maliceous beings not really a positive way to think because everyone makes worse decisions than that. -_-
i have no idea what you have expressed, to the meaning of, 'worse decisions than that. -__- . i am at a lose. perhaps we have a different....?
ehhhh...no
i suppose you disagree. perhaps, we have a different understanding of crime, victim, greed, exploitation????
We have lots of prisons because we have a dysfunctional welfare state that enslaves minorities in liberal gulags. We encourage them to have multiple generations of fatherless children (the ones that they don't abort), and then we put those children in prison.
What is a victimless crime? Prison is not about rehabilitation, it's about punishment.
smoking weed, doing drugs on your own property, parking on a tuesday between the hours of 11 and 2 on certain streets, check out our gigantic federal law registry and then go check out your state registry.......No victim= no crime. Carrying a gun in your car unconcealed is a no victim crime. Talking back to an officer is a victimless crime. Hurting other peoples feelings is a victimless crime....i can go on and on and on.
Yes. do go on and you'll end up in jail.
bullshit, rationalization, the lies of arogance. not unlike what the 1% say at a different level of the of the all-seeing eye pyramid. i am sure you can go on and on and on.
so u enjoy all these laws that jail your fellow man and make him pay ransom to the govt?
enjoy?? perhaps, i have mis-spoke and/or do not know how to communicate here. ( you want to punk me? then say out loud: RufusJFiisk52, or do not ever walk in the same yard with me) i must, admit my communication skills, most deplorable, as they are; you knowing so much about jail / prison; if you are not ganged up now, you will find your reality.
mistake not RufusJFisk52.
i have been in and out of prison, metaphor and reality a good part of my life. rehab., and punishment, are relative terms in the power structure of 'should'.
Maybe you should think twice before doing something illegal.
what makes you think i have done any action illegal? because i admit having gone in and out of prison? well i have, on a daily basis, and no, before you jump to conclusions i was not a us-against them, person. there is much more to the prison-world-mentality, than that, but it is like the world we live in, the same- us-against-them, just more intence.
So do you work in a prison? If so, I'm sorry for jumping to conclusions. The way you wrote made it sound as if you had been arrested a number of times.
On the police. The 99ers will not allow mob rule. Our faction represent the 99ers and we need to do a good job of this. We commission Jason Bourne as a duty given us in our Declaration of Independence. We are to provide New Guards for our future security. These guards have been developed by 99ers in other countries 200 years ago. They have been refined, tested and proven to end corruption. Two states have already adopted this system. These plenipotentiaries demand nothing. It is we who mandate our New Guard. If there is abuse advancements and pay are halted for 5 years. Any further abuse and they are removed permanately. Same with any other gov. agent or rep. All other untested means have proven to fail. We cannot experiment as protestors / reps of the public. The public needs to know what we are doing has been proven to work in 25 OECD nations.
ok then, however you want to do it. Just let them know and help them understand what's happening here.
The police are public servants paid by taxpayer money,but many seem to forget that...especially now.
It is confusing to them how we would dare fight them, brain damage? No it is known as conditioning. You can join the army and when they are finished doing a # on you off you go to murder innocent sheep herders you call towel heads. We cannot change those entrenched in power nor indict anyone. The 99ers will not allow mob rule. Our faction represent the 99ers and we need to do a good job of this. We commission Jason Bourne as a duty given us in our Declaration of Independence. We are to provide New Guards for our future security. These guards have been developed by 99ers in other countries 200 years ago. They have been refined, tested and proven to end corruption. Two states have already adopted this system. These plenipotentiaries demand nothing. If there is abuse advancements and pay are halted for 5 years. Any further abuse and they are removed permanately. Same with any other gov. agent or rep. All other untested means have proven to fail. We cannot experiment as reps of the public. They need to know what we are doing has been proven to work in 25 OECD nations. They stay with Jason overseeing them.
Wtf dude you are creeping me the hell out. Quit with the cultlike red army rambling.
What red army? I'm talking about commissioning a New Guard as a duty given us by our founders to stop police abuse.
Your a robot.
thats you're a robot. Got it? What is a cult red army?
While your correcting grammar be sure to get to get your own right.
Our military does not kill "innocent sheep herders." we kill armed terrorists who do their best to blow themselves up to kill innocents. They kill many more civilians than we do. The kill more MUSLIMS than we do. Explain that to me, without the use of cult logic that you have to be insane to understand.
Explain to you how terrorists kill more civilians and muslems than our military? And I have to do this without cult logic? What is wrong with you? I'm talking about providing a new guard for our future security that has no detractors. I can explain this with or without the use of cult logic.
Actually, the military killed far more civilians than terrorists during our most recent 9 year war. And, for that matter, killed countless more civilians than the terrorists did in 911.
Some of those civilians were most certainly "innocent sheep herders", I'd imagine. But more likely, they were women and children.
I have strong pride in our military in this country. They pay the ultimate price for our freedom... but don't believe Fox News when they feed you lies about who was killed and how over there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Terror
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
jason bourne - from the bourne identity? i'd prefer the A-team or some other super hero, jason doesn't really have any super powers.
nor does the a-team nor any plenipotentiary. But what they do have is a total consent by everyone to carry out their mandate
awesome, we are working toward a true democracy, 1 person, 1 voice, 1 vote. guaranteed protection from a capitalist market system and the ability for every person to guaranteed fair work in exchange for the basic necessities of life.
Anyone would have a hard time explaining why some people should have access to basic human rights and freedoms while others do not..
If you can explain this then be our guest.
http://wesower.org -- building heaven on earth
We are a goddamned DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC!!!!! True democracy works until the citizens figure out that they can vote themselves money. That's what the system of checks and balances is for. I don't even know why you brought human rights into this. Every American has equal opportunity and basic human rights. Good luck convincing china I guess. It makes me laugh at how uneducated some people in the world are.
such cynicism. i would preferd you much smarter than that - 'vote themselves money' ??
ok then, educate me (and yourself a bit) who writes the energy bill and health code in your "democratic republic"
answer this correctly or else you would have not only revealed your evil in fighting against world peace but also the fact that you are actually the uneducated one. lol
we're waiting...
PS. "every American has equal opportunity and basic human rights" -- no they don't - what cloud are you in?
Which one of these rights do Americans not have?
the difference is to found in the public/private dialectic-dialogue: education, health-care, national defence (both foreign/domestic), the defintions of the great/homeless; 'equal opportunity - basic human rights'
what part of the all-seeing eye pyramid do you live in?
but speaking of only the American government, since you are so well informed can you tell us who wrote the current bill of health and energy legislation, was it elected officials or private interests?
starting with the fact that you seem to only care for Americans there are multiple breaches too all of the following.. go to http://wesower.org and take in some of the content
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ok, how about we start here and then you can go educate yourself on our website.
Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person - no one has the right to any of those.
learning anything yet?
So I assume that you want a perfect socialist government, or no government at all. I hope you see that these things simply do not work. I'm not going to learn anything from an opinion based, heavily biased, one sided website, so let's just end it there.
yup, exactly...
none of those are being enforced under our current system of government. beg to differ?
Explain that to me please. That's why I posted them, so you could explain which we don't have.
"True democracy works until the citizens figure out they can vote themselves money." Can you please explain what you mean there?
"Every American has equal opportunity and basic human rights." The first part is simply nonsense. You're saying that a child born to poor people in a poor community has the same opportunities as a child born to rich people in a rich community? I doubt they even receive the same treatment from law enforcement, which calls the second part of the quotation into question.
Wake up and realize that there are real problems in America. Blindly believing that all is as good as it can be is not going to fix them.
I'm not saying that there aren't problems in the world. Reforms are needed, but socialism isn't the answer. Most reform suggestions I've seen reek of socialism, which I don't agree with. Also with the first point, true democracy means mob rule. You need some form of government. That's where the word republic comes into the name.
Easy to explain. Look at greece. Look at history and you can tell the future. All those expensive degrees and still dont know shit about america.
Greece has a long history of tax evasion, especially by the rich. The reason they have such problems is that tax was not collected as "forecast". Although, it's highly unlikely they didn't know they wouldn't actually collect that much, it looked good enough on paper for them to get loans they now cannot repay. The Greek problem was caused by the politicians, not the people voting for them.
Yea nevermind the entitlements. You are delusional.
everyone can explain why some have freedom and others are oppressed. Some people want to be in control of others so they know through contrast of what power they have. You lay prostrate before the King so you cannot attack him. You live in luxury on the backs of the poor.
I predict a riot and many cracked skulls if you carry out something as foolish as this, "blocade".
See comment above
why is that?
"The protesters in Oakland should march over to the police headquarters and demand that ALL of the officers resign."
Threats to their source of income will not be responded to favorably.
it's ok, we'll all have new kinds of jobs, the kind which helps human civilization instead of beating people to preserve corrupt power.
** http://wesower.org
What kind of world do you want? **
Hahaha... What are you talking about?
Wesower.org looks like last century's Communism.
more, like heaven on earth, what would you prefer?
I'd prefer a government that adhered to the Constitution, instead of roundly ignoring it.
Agreed... But it does need one or two amendments like NO CORPORATE PERSONHOOD etc.
http://alchemicalreaction.blogspot.com/2011/10/2011-occupy-america-peoples-official.html
YOU CAN still have an LLC without corporate personhood. We are just talking about corporations not having the rights of citizens.
I'm probably on the outside of opinions on this one, but being a small business owner, without "corporate personhood" I would not want to risk being in business where I could be held responsible and/or sued into poverty for something that might happen that is not my fault. I'm not with others on this.
a constitution that would allow this to happen to us is flawed and should be ignored. we need a new world constitution, anything less is uncivilized and it is inevitable, how long we ignore our problems is up to us.
NEW WORLD CONSTITUTION? Sorry, I live in the USA . I love the one we have. It's never been matched in its brilliance and brevity.
The constitution DIDN'T allow this to happen. Idiot politicians did it any way.
For some darn reason, my reply ended up on the top of this page, so here it is again....
The Constitution didn't allow it to happen, people ignoring it did. A government that has become corrupt with corporatism needs to have it's politicians replaced, and their opportunities to enrich themselves removed. Term limits would be a start.
The Constitution is a great work of genius, the problem is, people have a lot of trouble following rules.... even simple ones, like "don't make any more rules".
Also, a "world constitution" is a fantasy of the highest order. If you think they have problems with the Eurozone now, you ain't seen nothing.... but it will never happen.
blocade I appreciate your passion, but I don't think you know whats best for all of us. I also don't like how your claiming I'm oppressed, yet at the same time you want to get rid of capitalism without me having any say in the matter. How do you justify this, it's almost like you think you know what's better for me than I do. Is that how you feel. I would like to know what your qualifications are to make these kind of decisions.
And it seems that your on the side of the people who want to take that away based on their personal experiences with free trade. How does that make you good guys, but the other people who force their agenda's on us are bad. It a legit question and I think we deserve a legit answer.How are you different then those other people that claim they now whats best? I would also like some proof that I can actually see that getting rid of capitalism will really fix MY problems. Show me some proof that this heaven on earth with out forcing your agenda on me would work. I'm very curious how you plan on handling the people that disagree with your heaven on earth plan.
In fact I want to see some charts of graphs, all I hear is talk, but no actual numbers. Maybe you could put some of those on your site.Some existing proof that this system could hold some ground would be nice.
Are you showing these charts and graphs and proof that getting rid of capitalism actually will work on site. Maybe you guys should draw a giant diagram that covers the street or something so we can all see it. I'm sure you guys could pull something like that off an actual road map that shows how we could go from our society as it is today into this heaven on earth(real proof not just speculation and theories.
Sorry but it would be irresponsible of me to just buy your story because it sounds nice. It is quit a leap, so that could be part of the reason we have trouble understanding were you come from. I think most of us understand that something needs to be changed, but your change is quit extreme and almost impossible(and possibly unwanted) Which brings up another question.How would you overcome these things without forcing people to do something that they may not agree with, obviously some people do not agree with you. I hope we can at least agree on that.
um... really? ok, you go on supporting an oppressive system, pretty sure you won't have much to work with soon. we'll be building a newer and more perfect system. You might want to try explaining why you are against world peace and essentially building heaven on earth.. though it won't have much of an effect on what we have already started. you are just one person. we are the world.
Your a real posterchild for this mob aint ya. Glad ispotted it from day one yall almost had my sympathy.
Blocade, I'm just curious how are old you, I would like to hear your personal story about how you have been oppressed by this system. Not anyone else's, but your personal story about how your so oppressed by USA. Now I want you to tell me where in this world is there any place on this planet that comes close to resembling this heaven on earth you keep referring to. I would like to check out their financial statements and see how there doing with no capital.
Americans asking meaningful questions i love you we need more like you.
I think anyone who thinks that they have all the answers to this problem with such an extreme proposition. weather we agree or not, should prove to us why.
Human nature being what it is , there is no such thing as "world peace" There is no perfect system. Capitalism is as good as it gets.
You wont be changing my govt. I dunno who put this dumb idea of 99 percent out there but it is insulting for them to put me in the same group.
that's fine, we are going to build an advanced civilization where there is no crime, hate, corruption or ignorance. You can try and live in the same government where policy is written by corporations and handed to congressmen and women with fat checks and promises of future employment but it simply won't exist as we are going to do away with them.
You can continue to fool yourself into believing that you are in "god's" favor as you fight to protect your guns, support bombing other countries so that the top 1% can claim ownership to their resources and support a failed capitalistic system that must oppress the many in order to produce cheap goods for the few.
You can support it all you want, though it won't exist much longer. We are boycotting capitalism and creating a new world government. We are building heaven on earth, stand against us and you would have revealed your evil.
We will not be stopped, we are the world
Power corrupts. Good luck changing human nature.
Dude you are spewing more crap and garbage then anyone else on here. I don't think you would even now how to build a fence around your house let alone a whole society. And all you do is back it up with this heaven and earth plan that is nothing but 4 paragraphs on a web site. It does not even cover some of those most basic things, like foreign policy or people who are not strong enough to work there fair share. I know that our current system sucks, but your plan has absolutely no proof of any kind that it would even work or that you could get anyone other then your friends to play along. So please stop answering people with reasonable questions that pertain to their REAL, life with your empty answers that are solely based on a theory(which means it's not a real (it currently does not exists) so you can't refer to like it is real thing that has premise in a real live grown up argument).
Thank you. Finally someone with some sense. I'm getting tired of this cult mentality, they refuse to listen.
there is no better plan and ours will work, it is working. we are boycotting capitalism and freeing people from ignorance.
we will not be buying any products to celebrate christmas this year, instead we will continue to spread our message of peace and unity.
The reason many Americans respond with fear and anger the way you have is because most Americans don't know anyone in any other part of the world. they simply go by the opinions that they were given through media and propaganda.
We are in many countries and we all want the same thing. we will inherit the earth, you simply will not be able to buy enough to maintain your primitive system of rule
feel free to add you suggestions to our site
What ever that means??????? I think I am officially done with this. Your wrong I'm not scared in fact the last few years have been really good to me, and my future looks even better.Most of the things that have haunted my life I have found ways to fix and overcome. I just find it strange in the 90's when I was at the worst time in my life everyone was happy cause there houses were worth millions (surplus anyone). And now I'm actually doing good, my hard work is paying off and reaching financial independence without hurting anyone else, and now your telling me you want to take it all away cause you can't make it in our society.
Ok I guess I am scared that in pursuit of your dream your more then happy to squish mine. So let me just point out that maybe I'm protecting my dream from yours(do I still have that right in your heaven and earth to be as prosperous as I can or will i be limited by what heaven on earth will decide). So how do we decide whose dreams are more important? Peoples dream that resemble mine our yours? I would also like to point out that you can go start your heaven and earth place somewhere else, and maybe after it survives ten years or something then maybe we can talk.
are you asking for evidence first that you will be able to accumulate more things than other people if you wanted to?
No,I'm asking for evidence to prove that if by some chance your plan was accepted that it 1 could be executed without forcing people like me who don't agree with you, not because I'm evil or ignorant I just don't agree (keep it simple) 2 it would actually work 3 new boss is just like the old boss (this has happened you know) 4 protect us from people seek to hurt us (this also happens even when you have good intentions). 5 how do you plan on taking care of people who don't follow your rules or disagree with you.
Once again I'm asking for real answers, not references to some web site that has no merit of any kind. You are really asking a lot of people and I think we deserve some real answers from this heave on earth thingy.
evidence of something which has not yet ever existed? What you are asking for is solid faith. question whether faith alone can drive anything and you ask a silly question. our economy is based on nothing but faith.
we have broken that faith and we no longer believe in the current system, its leadership or relevance. We renounce all claim by any individuals to any of the earth's resources. We know the only reason they will resist us is if they have something to gain.
By refusing to participate in our current system it will cease to exist. we will continue to utilize the resources available through the system but we will not give back and it will collapse, leaving only us and the earth.
(In reply to Ihalmiut below)
HAHAHAHA... "the price of a good tab" That cracked me up
So you think all my questions are silly. And I'm supposed to put my faith in you. Also I am currently participating in this system. I pay taxes,I give to charity, I vote, I'm here debating with you (and many other on your forum, were I know everyone disagrees with me yet here I am willing to hear out your idea). I just want some clarification since you seem to think I should have no say in the matter(I know another question, is that how you feel, that I should not have a choice due to my poor ignorance). But you refuse to answer any of my question because YOU think I'M silly. Is that going to be your response any time anyone questions your new plan.
Now I have been answering your questions, it's your turn to answer some. How are you participating in this current system, what have you done to prove I should listen to you.
Wow they let tou use the internet at the insane asylum? Anyone like you should be immediatly denounced or youll destroy this movement.
yeah, like all the other crazies that want world peace and unity. they should know folks like you won't stand for it, actually you are willing to fight against it with everything you have aren't you.
whip out your christian republican pistol and shoot at those working toward world peace and true democracy.
you are trapped in a primitive mindset and are barely even qualified to have a conversation with me.
answer me this. who writes most of the policy in Washington?
sigh the problem with true democracy is that there are no limits. People will eventually figure out that they can vote themselves bigger salaries. That is what government is for. That's is why America is a democratic republic, not a democracy.
no, there will be no monetary system, so i don't see that happening.... it's already started, we are boycotting capitalism, our first agenda, OCCUPY CHRISTMAS
this is going to be the best one ever!
Oh god do i have to be a gun toting conservative christian to know crazy when i see it. I guess i dont want peace and happiness for everyone just because i do not want idiots like you having any say in the way the country works. Scream peace and love all you want. There will always be people like me who see through it from day one.
what do you see when you see through whatever it is you're seeing through?
If you are planning a revolution don't expect the cops to be on your side. Revolutions are violent periods of time full of death, anarchy and destruction. The cops generally believe in order and in safeguarding society from anarchy and lawlessness. That is how they motivate themselves to work shitty hours and deal with people that irrationally hate them.
the cops just want to put in their hours and get a steady paycheck. They are paid with our tax dollars. our current capitalistic system is doomed to failure, we are preparing for a peaceful transition to an advanced civilization.
We are going to build heaven on earth and to stand against us is to expose your evil
It is not okay to be so absolute. Your heaven is probably hell for people like me. You do not understand that "heaven on earth" cannot exist. Humans cannot live in harmony with each other like you think. You are offering two final outcomes. Anarchy or total government control. Neither of things ever work. Changing human nature is a feat accomplished only by gods. The first time nature was changed was when civilization was created. It has not been changed since. Good luck in your quest for a perfect society of perfect humans.
i do not know what heaven is, other than hell is below it.
'Anarchy or total goverment control' , from my perspective, two sides of the same coin.
( i would have responded to your up-post, but there was a permalink (closed-reply). thus, your 'sorry' defined you).
thanks, we'll succeed, i'm pretty sure, you're always welcome to join us in our heaven on earth, that is unless you prefer to be somewhere else, though, i'm pretty sure you'll be quite lonely.
I'll keep my freedom, thanks for the offer though.
Your heaven will be somebody else's hell. Everyone in the past who thought they would build heaven has ended up killing tens of thousands and undermining the societies they pretended to want to advance.
If you come to my house to build your heaven expect a sharply unpleasant welcome.
it will not be us that come looking
How naive. You think cops will risk their pensions and retirement benefits for a mob ?
Cops have lost their retirement and pensions across the country and been demoted to security guards. If they don't stand up, it's their ass!
The cops across the country need to take a look at the Wisconsin police. Their union stood by the teachers,firemen and stateworkers union.If the brotherhood of police officers aren't careful they will be just like many of the police officers in Camden NJ....LAIDOFF!
Maybe they talk to their union bosses which have sold them out.
IN every industry besides show business, unions are a plague, not a boon to society.
tell that to trumpka and stern , constant visitors to the white house and channelers of union dues to the democrat party.
They will still have them, silly. This is just about us taking back the government. If they are revoked for the wrong reasons we will reinstate them when the democracy has been restored in this country.
The USA is not a democracy, it's Constitutional republic.
we are building a new world government, they won't have their current jobs or pensions in our new system. Instead they will go out each day to help the public in exchange for the same basic freedoms and access to resources as the rest of humanity, they won't have any crime to fight because most crimes will disappear under a system where we are all equal.... why would anyone WANT to have to deal with crime created by a corrupt capitalist system? Is that the kind of job you would want?
http://wesower.org -- join us as we build heaven on earth
You'd probably like this: http://www.jamesphogan.com/books/info.php?titleID=29&cmd=summary
And this: http://idlenest.freehostia.com/mirror/www.whywork.org/rethinking/whywork/abolition.html
On motivation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc
On a 21st century enlightenment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC7ANGMy0yo
And maybe this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vK-M_e0JoY
And on health reform, this: http://occupywallst.org/forum/first-ows-death-reported/#comment-254868
And on national security reform: http://www.pdfernhout.net/recognizing-irony-is-a-key-to-transcending-militarism.html
And also: http://anwot.org/
Other stuff on the problem: http://web.archive.org/web/20071019031111/http://adbusters.org/the_magazine/71/Generation_Fcked_How_Britain_is_Eating_Its_Young.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/29/opinion/blow-americas-exploding-pipe-dream.html?_r=1
http://www.businessinsider.com/do-low-tax-rates-on-rich-people-ruin-the-economy-2011-7
You aren't building anything. As long as there are people there will be crime. Your are hopelessly naive to believe otherwise.
There won't be any crime?? You're hoplessly naive. You don't know human nature.
It should be stationed somewhere warm. Could be Texas, Arizona, Nevada like Les Vegas... alot of tourist around the world visit there, or whatever. Make the crowd of Woodstock look like a hamlet. Find where accommodation, liking camp sites, cost of living logistics, etc.. It doesn't matter where it takes place, it's the spirit. Maybe someone has private land, like a rancher. Most 1% of people are no different than the 99%, it's the Elite that's the issue. Think about it. Spring Time Relocate to Washington, but much can be accomplished till then.
austin texas is the best place. It is a cultural center with libs, dems, republicans, conservatives, libertarians all rolled into one. A political center in the heart of Texas that is youthful and believes in freedom.
LoL First comment I got to laugh all day. Every officer I know is a hard core conservative.
That is a great idea! I am all for it!
"When those who are bound together by pacifist ideals hold a meeting they are always consorting with their own kind only. They are like sheep huddled together while the wolves wait outside. I think pacifist speakers have this difficulty: they usually reach their own crowd, who are pacifists already. The sheep's voice does not get beyond this circle and therefore is ineffective. . . . Real pacifists, those who are not up in the clouds but who think and count realities, must fearlessly try to do things of practical value to the cause and not merely speak about pacifism. Deeds are needed. Mere words do not get pacifists anywhere."-- Albert Einstein, Two Percent Speech, New York, 1930
Great!
I will be joining you in a sympathy general strike here in Niagara Square in Buffalo NY, all day Wednesday. Solidarity!
Sooooo, we are fighting for jobs by not working on November 2nd? Interesting.
Sure, how else will you be freed from the money shackles?
money has always existed...its just barter and trade of the time.
Get to know our enemy! There is an even more fool-proof way to accomplish this general strike. Refer to the video below for specifics:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwBPT5apvAk&list=LLm72CL8TM6ZcoY2s2nPfYWg&index=3&feature=plpp_video
Do not do this ! This strike is the first serious blow to 1% from OWS, and if succeeds, similar protests will spread nationwide. This understands everybody. So be prepared that the "government" (the 1%) response will be especially harsh and even brutal. You are not yet prepared for such sort of strike, You do not have technical means to counteract antiriot police (You even don't have personal protection like gas masks and helmets). Psychologically, approximately 90% of your folks are law-abiding citizens, they are not morally ready to counteract to police. Some users here recommend to demoralize police and make them join the strike--in general it is a good, "classical" advice, but not in your case: it requires a serious preparation and I doubt that the folks in OWS have necessary skills to persuade the policemen and possess necessary agitation materials.
So it is just better to cancel this strike and use legal means for your demands--e.g. organize a socialist party and try to win elecions.
I wonder how many of the protesters are aware of just how many Chinese products they have with them (blankets, clothing, electronics, etc.)
I feel that a boycott of ALL Chinese products would REALLY be great.
I also feel that we have all done our part in contributing to our economic collapse by purchasing all these products from over seas.
If we INSIST on mostly all American products, we can force corporate pigs to move the jobs BACK here...
-Just my opinion...
that will only hurt the growing middle class in china who produces those products. They are slowly creeping out of poverty because of American plants over there. As they gradually turn more capitalistic, the pvoerty levels in china have been sinking....its no coincidence folks. peoplelike to say that their are slavery and sweatshop making those products, but that is furthest from the truth. Ask them if they are better off now then they were twenty years ago. Though as the middle class in china grows they will be demanding better wages and working conditions...not much of a bad thing, only natural.
That's if they are allowed to. China is much more willing to gun down people who demand things (see Tienamen Square where college students were shot down in the streets -- just YouTube it for footage).
Okay here it is.... The Super Committee is going to come up with a plan shortly. Now, lets say there are 100 items on the Super Committee's list. As each item on the list is agreed to unanimously by 100% of the democrats and republicans, that one item goes into the WE Party Committee (www.weparty.info). The WE Party only looks at what we do have in common and has nothing to do with what WE don't have in common.
This WE Party Committee is about moving forward with 100% collective consciousness on what we do have in commom and collectively works on ways we can move forward together. The WE Party Mentor is an online volunteer (www.wepartymentor.info) that helps and inspires others online in a variety of ways. The WE Party Mentors (www.wepartymentors.info) often have WE PARTIES (www.weparties.info) to help and inspire others.
In regard to Occupy Wall Street, the WE Party can help here too! Using the same Pass It Forward Philosophy (www.pifphilosophy.info), we can work item for item and one by one create WE Party Committee's to help us move forward.
I welcome your comments.
I support the overall message of the OWS Movement, but a "general strike" is not the solution to the problems of our country. This kind of direct action will never lead to any kind of change in the system - it will never be able to gain enough support. In order for a strike to be effective, it must target a specific institution. Furthermore, inviting "all students to walk out of school" is counterproductive. Our youth needs to be educated, and society can not be reformed for the better unless we promote education and an understanding of history.
Recalls to mind the late 1960s. The red poster reminds me of an ill-fated academic attempt to resurrect the ILL/Wobblies. The movement truly lacks focus. With demands as broad as 'revolution' it will fail and peter out. Without specific focus and program it will be seen in retrospect as a giant happening. We are not Israel, we are not the Arab world. And after every Arabic spring revolution, Islamists have reared their theocratic heads.
Ok, now you've lost my support! I had thought the the communist manifestos and messages was the message spread NOT by you, but by some left wing radicals who tacked on to your ideas. But hwen I saw this POSTER on your main webpage, I know I was wrong. It is a typical COMMUNIST poster, the same patterns, the same colours and aesthetics. COMMUNISM from before its fall was one of the bigger terror-mongering systems in the history. The victims of communism make up of more people that the victims of all 20th century wars COMBINED. The rule of people was BULLSHIT, it was a rule of an ELITE who pretended to support the masses while it was taking advantage of them. In COMMUNISM tehre are no human rights, no free speech, nobody gives a damn about common people, unless we talk about propaganda materials. I lived in a communist country, I know what I am saying. You have never suffered in a communist country, so you know SHIT about the system. I thought it was bout positive changes in our world. Now I see I was wrong.
Ok, now you've lost my support! I had thought the the communist manifestos and messages was the message spread NOT by you, but by some left wing radicals who tacked on to your ideas. But hwen I saw this POSTER on your main webpage, I know I was wrong. It is a typical COMMUNIST poster, the same patterns, the same colours and aesthetics. COMMUNISM from before its fall was one of the bigger terror-mongering systems in the history. The victims of communism make up of more people that the victims of all 20th century wars COMBINED. The rule of people was BULLSHIT, it was a rule of an ELITE who pretended to support the masses while it was taking advantage of them. In COMMUNISM tehre are no human rights, no free speech, nobody gives a damn about common people, unless we talk about propaganda materials. I lived in a communist country, I know what I am saying. You have never suffered in a communist country, so you know SHIT about the system. I thought it was bout positive changes in our world. Now I see I was wrong.
To protest the behavior of big banks, thousands have pledged to switch to small credit unions on November 5. Follow these steps to simplify the process. http://www.yesmagazine.org/new-economy/a-field-guide-to-closing-your-bank-account
Do you not realize that you are the ones losing? This is exactly why you keep wanting things you can't get for yourselves. This harms you more than those in the upper class. Do you truly think they will submit to lost profits before those who work paycheck to paycheck just run out? Don't screw yourselves, you only make it worse for everyone else. Oh, and you might lose something even more valuable, those jobs that the "1%" gives you.
Do you really want to shut down the 1%? Are you willing to pick up their slack? Are you willing to pay their taxes and do their work? Be VERY VERY careful what you wish for. If the 1% retired tomorrow, you would all be in a world of hurt! Can any of you actually tell me what part of this supposed movement is good? I am trying so hard to understand you guys. I'm all for protesting an immoral cause, but I don't understand any of your gripes, PLEASE help me see this thing through your eyes.
man how i wish i was a citizen of oakland right about now the 1% dominating the world, making the decisions, controlling global funds and tax payer dollars, influencing the government, approaching the role of marionette. This concept has bothered me for as long as i have been old enough to understand how the system works. theres unlimited funds when countries need to go to war, or bail out executive companies, but when it comes down to domestic issues ( schools, jobs, unemployment rate, or simply keeping roofs over citizens heads) budgets are always tight. POWER TO THE RESISTERS! ABOLISH SUPERPOWER COMPANIES AND CORRUPT GOVERNMENT! WE ARE THE MAJORITY WE WILL WIN
Looks like the REAL Atlas might shrug. And it ain't the CEOs.
There needs to be a General Strike across the nation the day after Thanksgiving. Shut everything down!
Shut the mutha' down !
Come on people wake up this article says it all a must read http://occupywallst.org/forum/unesco-cuts-and-article-5/
Cool...You guys strike and us business owners will replace your lazy butts with somebody who wants to contribute to this nation...Or better yet, just send the work to another country where the workers are not nearly as whiny or lazy...OH WAIT...we are ALREADY DOING THAT!!!!
Hey, this is a call to all you 1%er's out there. Close your businesses here in America and let’s move them someplace else. Let’s find some workers willing to work. Let’s leave the 99% manby pamby weenies to themselves and see if they have a creative mind between them....
What will they do when we close down the Oil companies...guess they don't own cars, no big deal. How about all the big engineering firms and mega construction companies that design their infrastructure? Guess they can figure that one out for free too. Definitely should close down Wal-Mart....they might be a bit late in the season to start growing their own groceries, but what the heck. Macy's, Penny’s, Kohls, Target and all the other department stores are run by the one percent...no problem...these 99%ers can make their own clothes. Course then there are all the privately held electric and gas Co-ops throughout the country...wonder how many of these folks know how to rub two sticks together? (Might come in handy in New York...I understand the temperature is dropping there). Let’s not even mention the banks that finance all of this stuff for them....
Finally, lets close down Microsoft, Dell and Warner...OH WAIT... if we do that their internet, TV, and pretty much all other media coverage will die...
Whoops.
Guess they need our money after all.
www.asusoeff.com
GO OAKLAND,
the World Is Watching !!!
coming from Egypt it's crazy to see this stuff happening in the U.S.!!
plz check out this online documentary series on what's happening around the world today..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-X02B7_9Eo
Strike #fail, #gohome
One thing I don't understand is this. Do you people expect all the corporations to come out and write you a nice little check, giving you the money you feel "entitled to"? Or do you expect humanity to change its ways so that socialism will actually work? Neither of these options seem very likely. Also, your proposals call for an all new constitution. Good luck with that. "And this is how democracy ends, with thunderous applause."
“”YOU NEED A GAME PLAIN”” .....THE GAME PLAIN........ Inventions Designs & Concepts.LLC Please Organize your FORCES. Chain of command need to help implement these programs in you OCCUPIED CITIES. Then you too can control the WELTH in you communities. Any Question Just contact me. I’m willing to add more directions to help you make this once in a life time SHOT come true. Helpful Directions Below. How to FIX the US Economy 101 http://www.fatttrixx.com/revenue.html " 5 Tank System.AVI” Free Energy” "Hydrogen Car Fenders 2012" See these 2 program that ID&C designed OCCUPY SOCIETY!! WIN WIN !!
!! We as Americans need to Reverse the way Big Companies get their revenue , (Answer)DIG INTO THEIR REVENUE 1) Drinking Water Sales revenues 100% to the People 2) Snack FOODS revenue 20% to the People 3) Car Fuel 70% 4) Power Companies revenues 80% 5) Video gaming Playing revenue 70% We at ID&C have Programs to enter into all of her above major industries Join a SOLUTION
"OCCUPY SOCIETY"! WIN WIN! "How to FIX the US Economy 101" http://www.fatttrixx.com/revenue.html 1) Found Raising/Donations collection ($$$$) 2) Take that money to a Young group of manager who just finish one of those trade schools that the President Paid for . 3) Hand over the “Hydrogen Car Fender” design to them and direct them to a Plastic manufacture. 4) The plastic manufacture will accept the designs for the “Hydrogen Car Fender” and make the east mold to start Pressing them out. 5) Tool Shops will be given the Designs for the style of Hydrogen Stainless Steel configuration for the plastic manufactures to place in side the mold to incase inside the Fender. 6) Make and models will very so the Team of managers will produce and organize the install time for make and models.
The next stop. You should be showing the people that relief they been asking for .http://www.fatttrixx.com/revenue.html. “Anonymous” “ The Cure 4 America” TIMING IS EVERYTHING> NO SECOND CHANCES get this program and get at it ASAP...We as the 90% can control $7Billion ever 30Days and Fix what is wrong Step by Step.
1)Start asking the wealthy for money . Raise the money to produce the Hydrogen CAR FENDERS . 2) Allow US Citizens to pre register their car on line to help raise capital before you go into productions. 3) Use the Money raised on line to Pay manufactures and tool shop (Job Creator) for producing and delivery of the Hydrogen car fenders. 4) Set up shops around the USA in every State to get more people involved in saving portion of $6,000 a year. Shops will Installs these device when they are delivered.
5)When US Citizens Pre Order on line they can then ask for make and model of car , or they can just Commission A Hydrogen car fender before they know what type a car it will be installed on. 6) Portions of the founding in the Pre section of these program will be sent to develop the final 3D rendering of "Hydrogen hammer System" and '5 Tank System" With these two Program you can offer the people a TRUE SOLUTION with $6,000 a month in their pockets and YOUR GROUP gets to control $7Billion a month , back in to the US ECONOMY.
Sounds simple, that"s because it is
This will pretty much put an end to things.
uh, you do realize that no one is planning on striking. Right?
It's interesting how a handful of Marxists have successfully diverted OWS from going after the financial international and turned this movement into nothing more than a pool of warm bodies for the use of big labor (a VERY well off sector of the population). Here's an email from one of the behind the scenes self appointed leaders/handlers of OWS. Love his paternalistic attitude:
Mark, I agree with you completely. In fact just last night I was reading the section in Grieder's book on the Fed where he contrasts the class base and resulting politics of 19th vs. 20th century populists (progressive and reactionary respectively). (See bottom of page 265 for his punchline on this.) That's why I spoke of both left and right wing populists today. The kids today at OWS who are proworker, antiracist, antisexist, anti-imperialist, but who think the solution is ending the Fed, or restoring Glass-Steagall, or breaking up the big banks, or moving our money to credit unions -- isn't left populist a fair term for them? And it's meant not in an elitist or dismissive way, but as a sign of their lack of exposure to basic socialist ideas -- for which we all, of course, share some responsibility.
http://www.marxmail.org/msg96959.html
http://www.marxmail.org/threads.html#96936
So, all of you people out there who wanted to go after the real cause of the disease - STFU and lay off the bankster cartel, already!
Occupy IS Winning! BANK OF AMERICA AND REGIONS BANK DROPED $5 Debit Card Fees. Pull Your Money Fromthese banks. asap. Ditch Cable TV. Ditch phone contracts also (Prepaid is the way to go) if you want to change these price gouging corporations.
Seekin' The Cause by Miguel Pinero
Seekin' The Cause he was Dead / he never Live The Book of Genesis According to St. Miguelito Before the beginning / God created Go Black Woman With The Blond Wig On Black woman with the blond wig on / you're living an illusion. La Bodega Sold Dreams dreamt i was a poet / & he was Dead he never Lived died died he died seekin' a Cause seekin' the Cause because he said he never saw the cause but he heard the cause heard the cryin' of hungry ghetto children heard the warnin' from Malcolm heard the tractors pave new routes to new prisons died seekin' the Cause seekin' a Cause he was dead on arrival he never really Lived uptown . . . downtown . . . crosstown body was round all over town seekin' the Cause thinkin' the Cause was 75 dollars & gator shoes thinkin' the Cause was sellin' the white lady to black children thinkin' the cause is to be found in gypsy rose or j. b. or dealin' wacky weed and singin' du-wops in the park after some chi-chiba he died seekin' the Cause died seekin' a Cause and the Cause was dyin' seekin' him and the Cause was dyin' seekin' him and the Cause was dyin' seekin' him he wanted a color t. v. wanted a silk on silk suit he wanted the Cause to come up like the mets & take the world series he wanted . . . he wanted . . . he wanted . . . he wanted to want more wants but he never gave he never gave he never gave his love to children he never gave his heart to old people & never did he ever give his soul to his people he never gave his soul to his people because he was busy seekin' a cause busy busy perfectin' his voice to harmonize the national anthem with spiro t agnew busy perfectin' his jive talk so that his flunkiness wouldn't show busy perfectin' his viva-la-policia speech downtown . . . uptown . . . midtown . . . crosstown his body was found all over town seekin' a Cause seekin' the Cause found in the potter fields of an o. d. found in the bowery with the d. d. t.'s his legs were left in viet-nam his arms were found in sing-sing his scalp was on Nixon's belt his blood painted the streets of the ghetto his eyes were still lookin' for jesus to come down on some cloud & make everything ok when jesus died in attica his brains plastered all around the frames of the pentagon his voice still yellin' stars & stripes 4 ever riddled with the police bullets his taxes bought he died seekin' a Cause seekin' the Cause while the Cause was dyin' seekin' him he died yesterday he's dyin' today he's dead tomorrow died seekin' a Cause died seekin' the Cause & the Cause was in front of him & the Cause was in his skin & the Cause was in his speech & the Cause was in his blood but he died seekin' the Cause he died seekin' a Cause he died deaf dumb & blind he died & never found his Cause because you see he never never knew that he was the Cause. What did you think
It is a classic bit.
One could say that Will Farrell represents the scum we're fighting. An obnoxious man with a huge pot belly. Probably what FreeMarkets looks like. A basement dwelling ignoramus.
Good luck tomorrow. Despite the belligerent hyperbole on the other side, the whole world WILL be watching.
"Together".
G
hello there i would like to highlight that it is becoming clearer and clearer that in order to initiate real change we need to take things in our hand, and not just ask the powers that be to 'right' their wrongs. they will never do so because to really address the enourmous challenges facing the world, from the degradation of the environement to the endless wars around the planet, what we need to do is eradicate the root cause of the problem, which is capitalism itself, which is the economic and political organization of the very powers that be whom you insist on petitioning. instead of asking them, what we need to do is turn to our real friends for support to spread and make our struggle effective, strong, massive, and convincing. these people are those that have the same grievances as yours, they are the oppressed of society, the workers. their numbers and ability to unite and organize can give a tremendous boost to our struggle. a general strike should then be the result of mass meetings WITH the workers, of their involvement, so that the strike does not turn out to be just yet another moment of togetherness, but can pose the question NOT of shutting down the city (which would inconvene a lot of workers and other oppressed) but TAKING IT OVER. i suggest that people read up on the seattle general strike of 1919, to see what possibilities there are when a struggle is massive, unified, and extended. best of luck!
Αυξάνεται και αγώνα
hello
America by consensus, our liberty or death! That is exactly what American freedom stands for. " We the people." Everyone seems to know this except for t he bureaucrats in Washington who's ears are deafened by their own entitlement. Their entitlement manifest itself in self raises, personal social security, health care and pensions. And if that is not enough Washington is suppose to reflect the people. I see only lawyers! Why are there no carpenters or artists or actors or moms or merchants or clergy in the Senate or House. That woud be a concensus of the people. Instead we are being told by a very small elite who are selling us out to corporations for their own engrandizement, here is what we have decuded for you. Except now they can't even deide. More than ever we need a concensus by the people and for the poeple. We need to be represented by many people's voices and not just lawyers. We need to affirm that this is our land, our government, our society. Time and again, we the 99% have given them an opportunity and we trusted them to fulfill their promise and every time they are elected they disregard us and make a career out of what is to be a four year job, not fourty. Nothing corrupts absolutely like absolute power. In reality the people have the power. United we stand, so do not divide. Unite! Stay united. Vote with your feet and your pocket book, Use the internet and social media. In one day we could all refuse to buy anything and totally stop the US economy. One email action that we unite on could make the earth stand still. Look at the response in NY when just a few weekends ago all took their money out of Bank of America. This movement is not just an abstract hope because there is action. We have momentum. We have already reach a concensus world wide and that is to act together for the benefit of all mankind not just those few at the top. Remenber it is the base of the pyramid that supports the top. Take away the base and the pyramid crumbles.Continue today and everyday take away just one brick from the wall. Wall street.
"Freedom, a government for the people by the people", not just lawyers. Next time you vote, don't vote for a lawyer for public office, vote for a citizen and rid ourselves of the promise breakers and of the corporate deal makers. We have become a CORPacracy. All this ends everyday we stand united. We are the people of America, get up and stand up for your rights. Be good to yourself, be part to a concensus.
to the 1%-
You may not realize it when it happens, but a kick in the teeth may be the best thing in the world for you.
Walt Disney
With the elections coming next year, can those who have set up camps throughout the U.S. in each location begin nominating the best of the best through a vote in each site to elect who our new occupy party believe will serve we the people the best? In New York elect through a vote who the people believe would represent us. In St. Louis do the same, and Kansas City do the same and so on throughout the country. Since the Republicans and Democrats are both owned by the same system, we can through this movement make it the third party in the debate that will once and for all serve the people as the system was initially designed to do. If we can get a few different people of our own on the upcoming ballot--we can finally have a say for a true person of change for us! We deserve this! It is our system that has been stolen--let's take it back! The Republicans and the Democrats--now our party--the Truth Party!
how can you strike when you don't have a job~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
losers!
An answer
http://dieoff.org/l2.html
The boycott against capitalism is gaining steam partially because most people across the world cannot afford to buy useless junk but also because we are refusing to buy anything other than what we need to survive.
We are building a true democracy and working toward world peace. By purchasing useless junk such as jewelry, gadgets, unnecessary clothing and shoes, toys, make-up, etc you are not only demonstrating that you do not what to change for the better but you are standing against our movement for world peace and true democracy.
Do not even try to consider yourself a Christian, Jew, Muslim, ETC if you stand against world peace and unity!
http://wesower.org -- gaining steam quickly, join us
One of the greatest speeches ever made! Time doesnt change truth! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcvjoWOwnn4
Who is designing your graphics? Maybe consider breaking out of standard formats?
Please don't forget to educate the 99%. Is your plan to just appeal to the converted. Politically, not doing this is a wasted opportunity. It would be tragic actually.
You guys are real patriots
Go Oakland
The only cops that will show up are those with pepper spray for your pot smoking slackers asses.
Employed people don't have anything in common with you all.
That poster (the handcuffs) is unnecessarily dramatic and does nothing but provide the OWS opponents with very easy ammunition in painting this movement as "another pinko commie anti-American group."
Please don't over-dramatize the communiques. They come off as directionless and emotional.
I agree. It makes the movement look like a bunch of Marxists. Maybe some are, many aren't.
Why would a person with a job want to take a day off to be with people without jobs??? It doesn't make any sense. I think this strike idea will fail misearbly.
this will be a critical test for the movement
See Neverminditol-The Great Recession Depression Drug and then get up and JOIN the Occupy movement!
http://www.youtube.com/user/BaitAndSwitchTV#p/u/3/PxRekUJ3RBA
Also see: The Real Housewives of Tent City (A Hot New REALITY Show-Global Depression Edition): http://www.youtube.com/user/BaitAndSwitchTV#p/u/14/NH_WqjgoJLY
THE MOVEMENT THAT IS MEANT TO FAIL
This is a movement that is meant to fail. It has been planned to fail from the beginning.
Since the financial crisis of 2008, many from all walks of life have predicted social unrests, riots, violence on the streets, all the way to a full-scale riot. The financiers are especially fearful of these scenarios. They know when this happens, they will be the targets. They know they will be easy targets, not having the arms to defend themselves. They approach the militarists in Pentagon. Those militarists know that if those scenarios become reality, they will become the center of hatred if they were to openly defend the financiers. They do not wish to see full-scale riots happening at all because this would mean sending out the troops to shoot at civilians, something they want to prevent at all cost. The financiers and the militarists come together to hedge a plot against the occurrence of full-scale riots in the streets. They agree on a simple strategy - start a controllable fire to prevent a much bigger one. In typical military style, the importance of timing was taken into consideration. In this case,the season has to be taken into account. Start a small peaceful protest near to winter. Make sure that it remains peaceful. This means it will be non-destructive, offering only passive resistance. They believe such a movement will cause little damage, generate little interest and gather little support. When it fails, it will dampen the spirit, if there is any left in the people, to rebel. They expect the foul weather of winter to douse out the controllable fire they have started. The movement which starts near the end of autumn will be no more by the mid of winter.
Look at the details. The way they are organised is based on the concept of a guy who had worked as a consultant for the Pentagon in counter-terrorism. It was supposed to Occupy Wall Street, even the New York Stock Exchange. Before any action was taken towards this, it was announced openly. This prompted the police to take pre-emptive measures, and all the targets became off-limit to protesters. Even the Wall Street bull (the real one) is off-limit. There was no intention to occupy any building or operate from within one. This exposes the protesters to the weather.
Everything point towards a failure.
We have all been had.
Occupiers are RAPIST that take DRUGS. This is a great way to put the movement in discredit. People in Brazil that didn't even know about the movement now are aware that there is a revolution going on in US that rape young women and that they all take drugs. Are you forgetting the power of mainstream media in destroying reputations? Be very careful!
The mainstream media is covering RAPES all over OWS in US. I didn't find any statement from the movement. YOU HAVE TO TAKE IT SERIOUSLY AND SPEAK UP because there are numerous sites blaming the movement of committing crimes. a teenager rape included. Still OWS says nothing. This is not a good strategy.
I live in NY but I will also strike tomorrow in support of Occupy Oakland
Am an Egyptian who is extremely moved with the current peaceful protests going on in America, just the same as when i have involved myself in the peaceful protests of Tahrir Sq. in Cairo.
May all 99%ers be blessed and you have my solidarity and all Egyptians in your fair and just struggle.
Love you all; occupiers
51% of cops calling in sick? Right. If you get .0000000000099% of workers to join you I think hat would be a shock. When the strike flops, will you all just go home and realize the world has better things to do.
Good article on the prospects for a general strike in Manhattan:
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/10/2011107135115719238.html
In solidarity NM we will strike and not spend a dime on Nov 2nd. In fact we have been and will continue to boycott consuming as much as possible. The most money we spent in October was in donating to occupy wall street. We are the 99% and we are too big too fail!
abolish the federal reserve! sign petition here! http://abolishthefederalreserve.org/
abolish the federal reserve! sign petition here! http://abolishthefederalreserve.org/
it'd be pretty cool if Obama dispatched the National Guard to protect protesters. Now THAT would be a message.
I am not a camper and never have been so I am SO impressed with you all continuing on your journey during these winter storms/wintering months. Bravo!
Do you have a social worker available to handle the mentally challenged homeless that the police have told to go to your "occupation"? If it's true Bloomberg actually suggested this to the police to do, I hope it's illegal and someone "pays" for this. It's very unhealthy for the mentally ill; not to mention what the police/mayor maybe up to ... i.e. destroy "occupywallstr."
Take care of yourselves .... Continue being mindful and peaceful b/c it is so impressive to the rest of the world and shows we're not all about warring.
Blue flu! Call in sick if you can't strike openly. Review your employer's policies. Schedule a vaction day if you can. No one works.
You've got the goddamned wrong 1%. The one you should be worrying about is the 1% of Americans who are "social workers" that do nothing and get paid at the expense of tax paying americans. Or maybe you should be angry at the 49% of Americans. You know, the ones who don't pay taxes. They are a drain on the rest of us. Everything on this page wreaks of socialism and "spreading the wealth". Also, am I the only one here who pictures hippies saying "it's the corporations, man."? I mean really. The vast majority of the protestors don't know what they're protesting. Do the expect the big business to come out and write them a check for what they feel they are entitled to? Here read this ". The wealthiest 1 percent of the population earn 19 percent of the income but pay 37 percent of the income tax. The top 10 percent pay 68 percent of the tab. Meanwhile, the bottom 50 percent—those below the median income level—now earn 13 percent of the income but pay just 3 percent of the taxes. These are proportions of the income tax alone and don’t include payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare." maybe that will give all of you bottom 50% something to think about. I, as a true American, am a supporter of free enterprise, capitalism, and democracy(well democratic republic). Everything you've said about the "New world constitution" stands against that, and quite frankly, sounds like a hippie commune. It would be nice, if for once, people did some form of research before thinking up plans. Go look at how socialism/communism is working for everyone else in the world, then come back to me.
Oh no... you didn't just use the "h" word... we all know that its important to work very hard building useless things so we can buy more stuff from other people building useless things, until we have a whole pile of useless things and the whole world has a hole right through it.
Of course a social structure based on pure greed is the most natural and efficient system there is; just like Jesus didn't say: The love of money is the root of all evil
Its been over a month since occupy wallstreet. 1% and media is ignoring the voice of occupy protesters. It is therefore time to go beyond protest... Occupy Oakland has taken the lead. I pray to god that strike will be peaceful and effective in getting the voice of occupy heard or known to others in 99% who are still not aware of these protests. Yes it is true lot of people within 99 % don't even know that there is protest happening anywhere in usa.
If you try and shut down the 1% in every city, then the movement will be about more like 10%. Given the economic makeup of the U.S., I would wager that Oakland/Bay area possesses no more that 15% of the nation's top 1%. Henceforth, shouldn't your proposal reflect that your goal is to shut down the 0.15%. Maybe you should call another vote with the OWS delegates...?
My favorite part of this proposal is to encourage students to leave school. Education is just a meaningless waste of time. It's not like the teachers actually do anything nowadays.
IF this comes together as hoped, it will make quite a public impact...
We are moving into a confrontation with the 1% without the aid of our queen game piece. This is the New Guard we are to provide as a duty given us by our founding Patrons. At some point depending on how it goes we may have to consider commissioning this guard as 25 OECD nations have over the last 30 years. 99ers in other nations have developed and proven this citizen protector from police abuse for over 200 years and now two of our states have adopted this system. There are no detractors and it goes a long way in opposing the 1%. So lets have a discussion.
We the occupyers who represent the 99ers have decided to go on strike in Oakland to shut down the 1%. Pray that all goes well. If it does not we will consider our Declaration of Independence and commission New Guards for our future security. These guards have been developed, tested, refined and proven to work in 25 OECD nations by 99ers over the last 200 years. Two states have already adopted their refinement of our given duty New Guard. They commissioned Jason Bourne to investigate corruption so as to end it. Jason is mandated to pounce on any policeman who abuses a citizen. Any citizen who hurls objects at the police is on his own. Behave yourselves and good luck.
ad-vice to oakland ows: have activist go to the farthest out-reach of bart, the bus syst., all public transport. have leaflists, go one stop - hand out all that will accept, get out, wait - next transport, go on to the next etc; have people tactical available at each stop: legal, witnnes, more leaflets,etc., all get off one stop short of, then march, loud.
I feel the leveling the playing field, addressing the disparity of wealth. But why the communist imagery in the poster? Some people very close to me suffered horribly under communists. Surely you don't want to identify with Stalin, Mao etc.? I hope you don't put that hammer and sickle up next.
New York City LOVES you guys. Our inspiration.
Police infiltrated Oakland protests before Scott Olsen was injured. Copwatch has a YouTube video. Please watch.
Way to go Oakland!!!! This is the ballsyest thing the Occupy movement has come up with so far (besides coming up with the movement itself of course). Can't wait to see what Occupiers here in NYC will come up with to compliment this great feat (sort of like when the Beatles came up with Sargent Pepper after they heard Pet Sounds).
In any event I for one will not go to work on Wednesday, and I hope many other New Yorkers can do the same. Hopefully tonight's General Assembly in Zuccutti will suggest this to all who attend!!!!
Here is a quick overview of what I saw at Occupy LA yesterday.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAybyOxQeg4
Here is a quick overview of what I saw at Occupy LA yesterday.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAybyOxQeg4
Wednesday
Call in Sick and support occupy wall street.
How about all of you protesting go get a job? How do you support your families when protesting? Why do you think it is right that you destroy businesses around you and urinate and defecate wherever you please? You are all a bunch of animals that are jealous you get nothing handed to you, yet you want to take away from a successful millionaire who worked hard to get where they are. I saw one protester with a 20 dollar bill plastered to his face, that's why you don't have any success your destroying money. Don't forget to mention students that were in Citibank protesting they Signed a loan for 100+K a year for an education, and now don't want to pay it back, that is stealing right there. I am a working middle class citizen and proud to stand against OWS.
your an idiot
November 2nd will be a good assessment of how much popular support there is for this cause. My guess is that Oakland will mostly function as usual, but who knows. Guess we'll find out in a couple of days....
"We have to eliminate this corruption through the formation of a new universal resource management system which gurantees access to the same basic freedoms in exchange for services to the system."
We tried this already. It's called communism. It hasn't been shown to work.
You are all awesome! The whole world is watching and I can imagine ready to follow suit. Good luck ladies and gents and congratulations on an amazing GA decision! We are all with you!
Seattle artist Duff Hendrickson created a handbill design to protest Bank of America, Chase, Citibank, and Wells Fargo in support of the "Move your Money" campaign. Hendrickson donated it to Public Domain, so you are free to publish it, print it, put it on web sites.
Duff hopes you'll print it and pass it out in front or near the banks as a protest.
You can download the design at this website
http://www.archive.org/details/MoveYourMoney
A government that is corrupt with corporatism needs to have it's politicians replaced, and their opportunities to enrich themselves removed. Term limits would be a good start.
Have you guys tried weaving your own long underwear from hemp fibers? A little scratchy but adequate. Remember, the trap door goes in back.
Have you guys tried weaving your own long underwear from hemp fibers? A little scratchy but adequate. Remember, the trap door goes in back.
Constitution for an Advanced Civilization, pass it on and let's create a miracle. http://wesower.org
HOW DID THIS ALL HAPPEN? >>>> IT started in March of 2000<<<<, Goldman-Sachs Board of Directors = 1Director from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, 1 from intel, 1 from GE, Big Oil, the TOP executives at Goldman-Sachs, where going to collapse the TECH MARKET to level the political playing field so G.W. Bush could have a better chance to BEAT Gore, which is exactly what happened. Bush got in and STOPPED the break up of Microsoft, (Please Read about all of this), Then "CREATED" a needless War "IRAQ" which supported GE and other weapons manufacturers, BIG Oil got high oil prices because of the Wars, actually prices quadrupled, (SAME thing happen with George Bush Sr, exactly! "LIKE FATHER LIKE SON by design") NO WALL STREET FINANCIAL INSTITUTION was prosecuted for Financial Fraud, for as the Tops Guys and there Buddies Got out of TECH, the Financial Institutions of Wall Street, lead by Goldman-Sachs told there Mid to Small Cap Investors to keep investing in TECH that = Criminal Fraud, this included Merrill Lynch, and even Charles Schwab! Then Alan Greenspan who was the Federal Reserve Chairman, who came here to Teton County to party with the likes of Dick Cheney = Halliburton, Dan Cook the III = Goldman Sachs & Walter Scott Jr = Level 3 Communications, they all live here in the SUMMER, during this time Greenspan deregulated the financial institutions, which is what Bush & Cheney and their Buddies all wanted, to keep the cash following so they could keep their WARS going. Note Here: Obama once in office never FIRED anyone at the SEC for failure to protect the US Financial System, NO ONE GOT Fired !!! Do you run any business that way ? NO! OBAMA is one of them HE is an absolute PHONY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Once Bush got a free for all going on Wall Street, the Banks, the Mortgage Institutions, Wars going and going......Exxon-Mobil OIL made BILLIONS, the Saudi Royal Family it is estimated made over a 3 TRILLION. GE made billions in WEAPONS, HALLIBURTON MADE BILLIONS & BILLIONS, GOLDMAN SACHS through selling fraudulent bundled mortgages MADE BILLIONS and the AMERICAN PEOPLE when it was all said and done....were left holding the BAG an empty BAG. IT is absolutely time to CHARGE, CONVICT and in my opinion HANG, them ALL for >>> Financial Terrorism, Financial Treason, War Crimes, the death of thousands of US Soldiers, and families who have lost everything HERE, we were once a Democracy but now we are Totalitarian State. NOW it is TIME to Organize and get ready for Massive General Strikes this Summer! Until Obama steps down, Goldman-Sachs Executives and Cheney & Bush JR & SR are arrested, convicted and in my opinion Hung for their crimes against Humanity and this Country. James P. Evanhoe jimevanhoe@gmail.com
Occupy Wall S. -- Declaration of Independence -- 2011 Version OWS Declaration of Independence IN CONGRESS, 2011. THE UNANIMOUS DECLARATION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA's 99% . WHEN, in the Course of human Events, it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political & Economic Bands which have connected them with, and to assume, among the Powers of the Earth, the separate and equal Station to which the Laws of Nature entitle them, a decent Respect to the Opinions of Mankind requires that they should declare the Causes which impel them to the Reformation. We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed, with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty , and the Pursuit of Happiness. -- That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate, that Governments long established, should not be changed for light and transient Causes; and accordingly all Experience hath shown, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security. Such has been the patient Sufferance of these 99%; and such is now the Necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The History of the present 1% is a History of repeated Injuries and Usurpations, all having in direct Object the Establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these 99%. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid World. The 1% have refused Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public Good. The 1% have forbidden the 99% from passing Laws of immediate and pressing Importance, unless suspended in their Operation till their Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, they have utterly neglected to attend to them. The 1% have refused to pass other Laws for the Accommodation of large Districts of People, unless those People would relinquish the Right of Representation in the Legislature, a Right inestimable to them, and formidable to Tyranny only. The 1% have called together Legislative Bodies at Places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the Depository of their public Records, for the sole Purpose of fatiguing them into Compliance with his Measures. The 1% have dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly Firmness their Invasions on the Rights of the 99% The 1% have refused for a long Time, after such Dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining, in the mean Time, exposed to all the Dangers of Invasion from without, and Convulsions within. The 1% have endeavored to prevent the Population of these States; for that Purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their Migrations hither, and raising the Conditions of new Appropriations of Lands. The 1% have obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers. The 1% have made Judges dependent on their Will alone, for the Tenure of their Offices, and the Amount and Payment of their Salaries. The 1% have erected a Multitude of new Offices, and sent hither Swarms of Officers to harass our People, and eat out their Substance. The 1% have kept among us, in Times of Peace, Standing Armies, without the Consent of our Legislatures. The 1% have affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power. The 1% have combined with others to subject us to a Jurisdiction foreign to our Constitution, and unacknowledged by our Laws; giving their Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation: --FOR quartering large Bodies of institutional bankers among us: --FOR protecting them, by a mock Trial, from Punishment for any fraud which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States: --FOR dispersing our jobs to all Parts of the World: --FOR discriminating against the majority and lifting taxes only for the rich: --FOR depriving us, in many Cases, of the Benefits of bankruptcy and Trial by Jury:
Stop..... We are here.. what world do you want? Join US in "Heaven" -- http://wesower.org
http://notetoanon.com/2011/10/31/occupy-the-scary-thoughts/
Pretty good poster overall (I would've made the dripping blood look different on each arm, but that's just me).
For those people who are getting wet feet, a trick from my youth; Use plastic bread bags or shopping bags over dry socks. Do not put them over wet socks. This is a help against non water proof shoes and boots. Also, for cold hands, squeeze sponges or soft balls for 1-2 minutes to start circulation. Kineetic exercises work well if you can do that.
For those people who are getting wet feet, a trick from my youth; Use plastic bread bags or shopping bags over dry socks. Do not put them over wet socks. This is a help against non water proof shoes and boots. Also, for cold hands, squeeze sponges or soft balls for 1-2 minutes to start circulation. Kineetic exercises work well if you can do that.
Didn't Joe Bidden accuse Republicans of keeping the "Jobs Bill" from passing thus resulting in having less cops on the street thus leading to more rapes? Is OWS advocating less cop on Nov 2.....more rapes?
You friggin' jerks will get ZERO sympathy!!!! I work hard to survive, and will NEVER support you LOSERS in your crybaby bullshit...go live in Russia you commie scum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
To get the police to your side you must show them they are part of the stepped on. Get some signs that are pro-police. Some that show they too are being squeezed by the system. Put that in their faces and they'll start thinking. Put it out there that their jobs and their pensions are at risk. Show them you are on their side too. Show them that Wall Street bankers and the politicians who protect them are not their friends. Seeds of doubt turn into oak trees of revolution. Turn the police, and you turn the military too. Signs, people. Signs facing the police telling them "Wall St. hurts police." "Wall St. hurts 1st responders."
Didn't Joe Bidden accuse Republicans of keeping the "Jobs Bill" from passing thus resulting in having less cops on the street thus leading to more rapes? Is OWS advocating less cop on Nov 2.....more rapes?
http://knowledge321.wordpress.com/
Happy reading.............
I think those of us who support what you're doing think it's time to move to the next step. You have so many supporters who don't want to really "get involved," they just want to help you spread some soundbites.
How about at least throwing around some slogans pointing out that we ARE the government. We elect those guys are making the laws that benefit only the 1%. Something about KNOW WHO IS DONATING AND HOW MUCH TO THE GUY YOU VOTE FOR!
After all, in the long run, that's the only thing that will make any real difference at all.
Yes !!!! Shut them DOWN! Rich people, we don't need them. We can build a better world for ALL of us, not just 1%. We need to do this for us and our kids. We all need a better life than what we now have. We are fighting the rich, we have no choice. But, WE the 99% will win !!!
Oakland, good luck!
Just wait. This is the second major step towards an armed revolution here in America (The Oakland Incident being the first). The pseudodemocratic government and corrupt corporations cannot deny the people of this nation a future much longer. Unless there are some serious changes in America and soon, this will lead to an armed Revolution. The people will take back what is theirs one way or another.
Reign of Terror Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reign_of_terror "a period of violence that occurred after the onset of the French Revolution[began 1789]" Once the violence started, France did not settle down until 1804, after 3 coup d'etat, and Napolean established his dictatorship, the Napoleonic Empire. Napolean participated in all 3 coup d'etat, and didn't stop until he was sole dictator. Reconsider violence or you can expect "the new boss will be the same as the old boss". Choose violence and you will only be branded a terrorist. Choose violence and you will only give the government the excuse they need to herd us into the FEMA camps. Choose violence and you become like the corporations and governments we want to change. Choose violence and TPTB will only escalate their ongoing violence.
Perhaps you are right. But if violence isn't the way to change then what is? Camping out in public areas is making a point very well but I don't see how it is forcing the government to change.
The peaceful 2nd American Revolution began in NYC on September 17, 2011. A new type of self-government is evolving, peacefully, in the General Assemblies at all the Occupy demonstrations and in the Internet chat rooms. The new paradigm will be created by all the 99%. Participate in it's creation by joining a General Assembly(GA) and learning GA skills. For a humorous look at GA skills, see the Stephen Colbert videos elsewhere on this website( http://occupywallst.org/article/ketchup-and-justin-foil-colbert-optation/ )
I propose that we demand the withdrawal of police from this affair. We are in fact challenging the very corrupt system which controls the police. As serious as our current situation is (millions of people becoming incapable of providing for themselves) fighting with police is a distraction.
Who is telling them to fight us? Why are they not fighting with us? Aren't we the people who pay for their services so that our human rights are protected and not abused??
Boycott the police presence in the occupation, continued police presence equates to opposition to our fight against corruption as the police serve the very people who are oppressing us all rather than protecting us from them.
Call for all mayors and officials to step down if they continue to send police to the occupation.
Shut down the entire capitalist system and work on building a new government.
Cool - I'm looking for a job in Oakland. Maybe a bunch of strikers will get the boot... and I'll get their job.
This is a wonderful idea. Work for its success and produce similar ones. I see the victory getting near day after day. American Police is ignorant like italian one, but our policemen haven't salarium, petrol and means to catch thr criminals. So they are organizing a strike for the next days. I hope the same thing can happen to our policemen, too.
I think it's a good Idea to shift more focus on the west coast where it's warmer during the winter months,,awesome idea!! Overwhelm the west coast especially CA where they think life is a beach,,it's not the poor and elderly are suffering...there are financial markets here too! Thunderhands
I hope that Occupy Oakland links up with labor on this and future actions. A general strike is a major step even for a day. Preparation is needed to maximize its impacts and ensure that the media narrative helps rather than hurts the movement. Good luck.
Honestly, I believe it's time we created a new world. The way we currently manage ourselves and the entire world government is broken, seriously.
I am not in Oakland but I stand with all the occupiers when I say "We already occupy the world" now it's time to stop what we are doing and do nothing other than start building a better system.
I don't care if it takes 1 year of doing nothing but eating, sleeping and working on the new system. Instead of going to our jobs and schools we should be doing that.
When we reclaim the earth's resources we will agree to share it equally. Anyone who disagrees with this is against world peace and higher civilization and either greedy or scared.
Boycott Capitalism and all world authority (especially those who would have us believe that they own the earth and it's resources)
Wake Up!
Wall Street is a confidence trick, a dazzling edifice built on paper promises, gambling, bets and rampant speculation. Wall Street doesn’t manufacture or produce anything. The Wall Street however attractive it may appear is built on paper. Modern day bank robbers are at Wall Street but they wear grey suits and not masks. Rampant speculators, propagandists and financiers of Wall Street are given some unfair advantage over the average consumers and taxpayers and the cumulative effect of the people watching selfishness prevail over the public interest has been an undermining of the public’s trust in the present US government. There’s no question the Wall Street is rigged against the average consumers and taxpayers. The Wall Street has a lot more information. Wall Street jerry-rig the system so that Wall Street always win. If the Wall Street loses trillions, the US Treasury will bail the Wall Street out so it can go back and do it again. 50 trillion dollars in global wealth was erased between September 2007 and March 2009, including 7 trillion dollars in the US stock market, 6 trillion dollars in the US housing market, 8 trillion dollars in the US retirement and household wealth, 2 trillion dollars in the US individual retirement accounts, 2 trillion dollars in the US traditional defined benefit plans and 3 trillion dollars in the US nonpension assets. Greed, arrogance and incompetence created a massive meltdown, cost trillions, and still Wall Street comes out richer and more powerful. There are trillions dollars of new money taken again from Americans to make deals and hand out outrageous bonuses. And when these trillions run out Wall Street will come back for more until the dollar becomes junk. The value of the US dollar declined very significantly during the last 70 years. The value of the US dollar in 1940 was worth 2,000% more than the value of the US dollar now. Many big US manufacturers are outsourcing to Mexico and China to increase their profits, adding more unemployment in the USA. Manufacturing jobs in the USA declined 37% between 1998 and 2010. Since manufacturing industries declined in the USA, the US competitiveness in the global marketplace is also declined. The demise of Glass Steagall act helped spawn the credit crisis by allowing the US Banks to reinvest money that was not theirs; they gambled; they failed; they passed down the burden to the people. The top 6 US banks had assets of less than one fifth of US GDP in 1995. Now they have two third of US GDP. The financial crisis was created by the biggest US banks to consolidate power. The big banks became stronger as a result of the bailout by the US Treasury. The big banks are turning that increased economic clout into more political power. Oligarchy is the political power based on economic power. And it’s the rise of the Wall Street in economic terms, that it’d turn into political power. And Wall Street then feed that back into more deregulation, more opportunities to go out and take reckless risks and capture trillions of dollars. Wall Street only has the lobbyists. Today more than 42,000 Wall Street lobbyists manipulate USA's 537 elected officials with huge campaign contributions that fund candidates who support their agenda. It no longer matters who's the President of USA. Since the heads of Wall Street and their representatives are afraid because they don’t have the substance or the arguments, they will not come out and debate with the people who occupy the Wall Street.
The political and economical leadership of the US has chosed to cartel profits and transformed the US economy to serve the colluding and unlawful oligarchy. The political and economical leadership of the US is bailing out failed paradigms with trillions of dollars while committing social injustice to its people. The political and economical leadership of the US including the US Congress have now become Wall Street's "Trojan Horses". The US banks are borrowing money at near zero interest from the US government, then lending it back to the US government at even mere fractions higher interest than they are paying. The net interest margin made by the US banks by lending the money back to the US federal government in the first 6 months of 2011 is 210 billion dollars.
Due to the oligarchs’ rapacious looting and their purchase of a politically protected luxurious lifestyle, the people of the US are on the road to permanent serfdom under a police state. The democracy was not given to the people of the US on a platter. It is not theirs for all time, irrespective of their efforts. Either people of the US organize and they find political leadership to take this on or they are going to be in deep trouble. The failure of governance to address the current critical issues have already produced catastrophic consequences. Now we are experiencing a major global paradigm shift and it is still unfolding. -Nalliah Thayabharan
http://occupywallstreetmusic.com/
"Blood Money"
Corporations want to get paid and they dont care who bleeds Thats why my sneakers are made by children over seas And their hourly wage is not enough to eat, but companies get away because no one oversees. man It’s about the G’s, better get em Because I’ve seen the poor get ignored by the system. But in reality I see the poor are the Victims of this cannibal animal called capitalism. Wheres the lack of division between the haves and the have-nots? Chance to advance but they plan so you can not. Get the jail route if you caught with that crack rock get a bail out.... If your crimes are from bad stocks. Cant stop trying to find answers how can they deny coverage when they find cancer. Tax breaks for the rich while the poor trying to buy Pampers. You cant prepare for the life after with your Blood Money.
Wall Street ruins lives for that Blood Money In Iraq soldiers dying for that Blood Money
Politicians committing crimes for that Blood Money Fox News telling lies for that Blood Money
We ignoring human rights for that Blood Money The environment sacrificed for that Blood Money
We all going to pay the price for that Blood Money Thats what they want from me
The Planet gets warmer cuz you filling up your Humvee the cash from countries where kids going hungry. Drug war in Mexico is getting kind of ugly and we support it every time we buy a bag and puff trees. You must see the terrorist that want to bomb you get there money off the drugs you put in your nostrils. And I support that Julian Assange dude he showed us who we killing when we bring them bombs through! Do what I’ve got to, I’m just tryna survive shopping that gross product from off of I-95 Because thats how we was brought up, how we was taught to survive knowing we going to get caught up and locked up for our crimes i’m from where the greed breed hopelessness Politicians on the TV they dont think we notice it. Give me a week of them Wall Street bounces I’ll take it to the streets and feed homeless kids off of this BLOOD MONEY
I've read a great many of the comments posted here and have come 2 the conclusion that those ppl. want nothing short of a Socialist government. I cannot allow that 2 happen 2 our Republic. I will fight 2 my dying breath 2 keep the freedoms our Founding Fathers envision in our beloved Constitution and Bill of Rights. I did not serve my country 2 c it go down in flames 2 Statists. That is exactly what I fought against during my time in the service. Don't like my attitude, then come hunt me down. Not with words, but with actions. 4 actions has always speak louder than words ever do. U will never shut me up or change my thinking on this. God Bless America and the Tea Party! Hurrah!
What is so bad about socialism? Social security is a form of socialism, so is unemployment. Taxpayer money going to fund public schools for that matter, or going to build highways. Money gets collected from the populace and redistributed for the social good. We already do that in this country. The problem is that too many of the people and companies in power are allowed to become more and more powerful and that precludes a democracy in which every vote counts. Socialist systems don't undercut democracy. Plenty of European countries have socialist systems and are democracies. They take care of their people. Is that so bad?
Socialism as a system of government has always failed. Everytime. Being an older American, I have the perspective of age and experience to know what a free society is and what is not. Why should I be taken care of? That is my responsibility, not the government's. Why should I have u take my hard earned money to give to others who r to lazy to work? Self reliance, accoutability, responsibility and being independent r the hallmarks of being a free individual. And I believe in the individual, not the masses. Those qualities r what made this country, not sucking at the tit of a so-called benelovent government. My money is mine. Not urs 2b redistributed as u c fit. Capitalism is the greatest boon to mankind that there ever was. It enabled people to strive to attain the things in life that they wanted. It gives a person a sense of accomplishment and self worth. The value of such really cannot b quantified by slogans or utopian apirations of the intellectual elite who think they know better than u of what is best for u. I have not even mention the horrors that await those who think, talk, act, or believe differently than those of the State. I've seen it. The ultimate end to that kind of system is the enslavemnet of man. The denial of free will. No, u will not convince otherwise. Nor will u my children who I am raising to have the same beliefs and value system that I have. Which is why I home school them. I'm not blind to the fact that our educational system has been taken over by those of ur ilk. Social Security was pushed thur by 1 of the worst Presidents we have ever had, FDR. A protege of another really bad President, Woodrow Wilson. Ur vision of what America should b and mine r diametrically opposed. There is no common ground for us to debate. The resolution of this conflict will b settled only 1 way, with bloodshed. And we far outnumber u with ppl. and guns. Sooner or later, we'll get po'd enuff not to take any more of ur crap and put and end to it. Count on it. Now go away and try to convince some kid who does yet know the difference between being free and being dependent on the State.
So, in your ideal society, who takes care of people who are born handicapped and cannot take care of themselves? If their families will not - or cannot - care for them, who does?
and europe is quickly running out of money for all those programs.
Yes, Europe is in bad shape, but not because of the programs. They are wracked by the same repercussions of the economic recession as the US, which was not caused by social programs.
No, it's not. I totally agree. Most people (especially those who are against socialism) don't even know what it is or don't eve stop to think that we already have it here to some extent. They think it's evil, because of what the media and the 1% tell them. Of course, the 1% is against it, because in a true socialist country, like those in Europe, the 1% wouldn't be able to get away with its bullshit (the ones who are the criminals).
Is this socialism you describe similar to the monies collect by OWS that has been so equally redistributed?
Facepalm.jpg. Watch as your organization (or lack of) CRUMBLES under the fact that 99% of you that actually DO work will go to their jobs because they don't want to lose them
I actually have vacation time and personal time I can take.... so you're wrong about us losing our jobs.
Taking personal time is not striking.
I totally agree with the principal of calling general strikes but they produce no results other than group therapy for the oppressed unless they stay out until demands are met. Unfortunately OWS has no demands other than the Declaration of Occupation who's principals I also agree with but until OWS lays down some concrete demands that the public can throw their support behind OWS can forget about becoming a popular movement.
Declaration of the Occupation of New York City http://www.nycga.net/resources/declaration/
Throughout human history the majority of the public has only shown support for concrete demands in popular uprisings. Recently the American public has been polled at 75% in support of a Canadian style single payer healthcare system just as an example
However, by not taking a solid stand on actual policy positions that will improve the living standards of the American public and claiming that OWS doesn't need a list of demands simply reminds the public of the weak kneed politicians controlled by the corporations that inhabit the white house and congress today.
I can't support an organization that doesn't have serious policy positions. I support the New England Chapter of the Carpenters and Joiners Union because I know exactly what they stand for and they run the only single payer healthcare system in the country by being self insured. My union local has benefited me and son for many years.
So now the call out for a general strike is spreading across the internet and attaching Scott Olsen's name to it, calling for an end to police brutality. Well, though police brutality is a worthy cause the overwhelming majority of Americans have no experience with police brutality but they do with a class structured radically expensive healthcare system that treats the public as chattel.
Successful popular movements that have forced the government to adopt popular policies have coalition building at the heart of them. If OWS does not lay down some solid policy positions OWS can forget about getting the public to stand behind it with any significance that could actually force a policy into law.
Once again, here are the policy positions I support and am proposing that OWS adopt in order to grow support to take back our government from the 1%.
Proposed List of Demands for the Occupy Wall St. Movement http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-for-occupy-wall-st-moveme/
No, Unification and working together, getting people on the same page so we can have their mandate to move forwards, to get past the propaganda the 1% are constantly broadcasting through their media companies, is the bulk of what we need to do right now.
Although in order to get people to unify we do need to have a plan, yes, and while I understand the benefits of a strike unfortunately mostly people don't. So yes, there has to be something more here, less scattershot and more intelligence.
So go to your local occupation and say that, that is one of the great things about the GA, everyone can speak so fringe ideas (like that there has to be a point, apparently) can be appreciated. I have been down to my local occupation and talked to people, and will probably try to help at the GA soon, but I don't live in oakland. They will cotton on eventually, as their thinking moves forwards, and when they do this unification will leave them well prepared to act.
Here is the policy position of 39 other nations who mandated this system. The 99ers will not allow mob rule. Our ows faction represent the 99ers and we need to do a good job of this. We commission Jason Bourne as a duty given us in our Declaration of Independence. We are to provide New Guards for our future security. These guards have been developed by 99ers in other countries 200 years ago. They have been refined, tested and proven to end corruption. Two states have already adopted this system. These plenipotentiaries demand nothing. If there is abuse advancements and pay are halted for 5 years. Any further abuse and they are removed permanately. Same with any other gov. agent or rep. All other untested means have proven to fail. We cannot experiment as reps of the public. They need to know what we are doing has been proven to work in 25 OECD nations.
Not that I support the methods, but the French did not have any specific demands when they overthrew the monarchy; they were just poor, hungry, and really pissed off.
I think the point is the occupation, the system itself is broken; and it will continue to grow so long as it continues to be business as usual; at least for me what I hope to see is a major structural change that actually results in a government for the people.
Specific demands might come after that, but right now I think its more about educating people about why we are in this horrible mess in the first place.
Overcoming propaganda, yes, that is a major, major part. And make no mistake there is a LOT of propaganda.
By getting together with reliable, unbiased communication channels like unmoderated forums (verified) and in person we can cut through the propaganda. But it isn't easy, and takes a lot of time. This is why the 1% really hate these occupations, they are helping people wake up.
see above comment
That is a complete mischaracterization of the French Revolution. Your pretending the French masses were poor when in fact France was a very healthy middle class society until the French King chose to back the American slave owner revolt picking a fight with the soon to abolish slavery British. Who had a much larger navy which blockaded and raided French trade ships causing the French economy to collapse. And yes, the French revolution did have demands and a plan and the result was called the French Civil Code.
I suggest you read a little french history before you insult the entire nation of France. The French Revolution was a middle class revolution of literate shop keepers, farmers, manufacturers, physicians, engineers and some nobles.
Because it has taken you Americans 211 years to catch up and have your own middle class revolution certainly does not make you experts on how to have a revolution, it makes you absolute beginners.
Origins and impact of the French Civil Code http://www.afhj.fr/ressources/french-code-civil.pdf
I really don't think anyone is being insulted by my comment; but rather than make snide analogies I guess I could just been blunt and said that the ruling class can only wage war and starve its own people for so long before the people revolt and make a new system.
I'm no expert in French history to be sure, but if I'm not mistaken the after the "let them eat **" comment, it would seem that the ruling power got its head cut off, and the people took back their country.
Yes nobody is looking outside the box to see how 99ers in other nations solved their 1% problem.
of the 99%, what % will strike? http://littlebiggy.org/4660547
Hi Hesperia, Adelanto here. I'll take 50 on 20% striking.
“There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious—makes you so sick at heart—that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all” ― Mario Savio
China is waking up:
Five Thousand Chinese students protest over quick rising cafeteria food prices(5:46)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz7WWUlad7w&feature=feedu
From the youtube description: " This is not the first regional action , Foshan, Changsha, Wenzhou, Zhaoqing, etc. are all unrest, but the blackout." Welcome to the99%, China!
Don't forget the torches and pitchforks!
I think its a bad idea....too soon after police attack....possibly this is anger-driven
oh my god you guys totally have to do this! it's a great way to not only show wall street and the "man" how to stick it to them.. but it'll empower you!
when i was 18 i went to university, studied hard, got a scholarship, took out a loan to pay for school! then after that i got a job that pays me really well! holy crap! i continue to work hard and get this, my job keeps paying me more! it's awesome! i even have friends! so instead of occupying wall street. let's occupy classrooms and work hard to achieve something! don't achieve goals tho.. someone posted that goals are for the "man". all this time i achieved goals! how dumb!
i bet all of you are posting comments from your ipad, macbook, or pc! holy crap! did you know those were created by big corporations?! they buy the pieces and labor over in china! let's all destroy our computers right now in protest! yes!
and let's stop recycling! recyclable materials are sent to china! holy crap! the amount of energy it takes to recycle and send things to china means that more pollution is created by recycling then it is if you just bury your trash in the ground! whoa!
ok, so on the count of three, we will all throw soda cans on the ground and then throw our computers out our windows.. one.. two.. thr-..
That's it, get it out of your system.
The sinners of Greed are deaf to all but one language, talk money, they will listen.
true
i bet there is a riot the way you guys are talking
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I heard the mob has their own site with petitions for less crime too!
thank you, oakland; now is the time for veterens, the TRADE unions, to step up. ALL SOULS DAY. no more, shut it down. All Hallow Even (halloween) : 1) to make holy or set apart for holy use.2) to respect greatly: venerate. PROPOSAL; ALL GENERAL ASSEMBLIES.
Did everyone see the longshore union guy speak?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdoyw5PhzJc&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Foccupywallst.org%2Fforum%2Foccupy-oakland-calls-city-wide-general-strike-nov-%2F&feature=player_embedded
we want democratic control of our community police. who is controlling these thugs in police uniforms? the subprime fraud was an INSIDE JOB nationally organised. we want our money, future and homes back. mass unemployment is here to stay. automation has taken the jobs. the end of cannabis prohibition nationally is the RAPTURE.
Great poster! Where can I buy one?
Have you known anyone who was harmed by communism? I used to wear a shirt with a hammer and sickle on it in my younger punk days to churches (I liked to make people feel uncomfortable), until I met people who were destroyed by communism (family killed, maimed). Then I got rid of it. Why replace one form of oppression with another?
The poster is soooooo black and red 1950's socialist (in the Soviet or Chinese sense, not the academic sense) looking you gotta admit. That's why people see it as so dramatic. But do we really have to be communist here, or use their style/imagery? Do we want to make people more violent?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR7dNntU5oI
these protests are not violent yet, people will only listen once they get violent wich they will sooner or later.
MLK over MZD!
(Mao ZeDong)
People listened to MLK!!
A "General Strike" generally means it is a nationwide action, not just oakland.
A general strike is one in which all workers participate. Usually strikes are organized for specific workers/industries/companies. A nationwide general strike would be something though ...
While San Jose was praised for being one of the top few lowest crime rate cities, a few hundreds policemen were laidoff this year due to the budget cut. Now the crime rate is cripping up. This can happen to all the hard working policmen in different cities, and they bears no fault for the economy and deficit. It's not about whether it will happen, it's about when. Calling our law enforcement folks of the 99%, join the strike!!!
the crime rate rises due to the main cause of the symptoms...the illegal war on drugs. Personally if we can end the drug war and have sane regulation and treat it like portugal does, we will need LESS cops, and that is a good thing.
No, ideally we don't want a lot of cops or prisons! We need good EDUCATION and sensible systems in all areas to build a safe society. But before making those fundamental changes which god knows how long it takes to get there, we can't do without cops to keep the crime rate low. Also, not everything is about drug, lot more complicated social problems we have comparing to Europe.
maybe if they were shooting less heroin in the Occupy camps? Tthat could be a great start.
sorry i am just catching up here, what is the goal in shutting down the city tomorrow?
goal ??? Goals are for the Man, dude
I feel like I am going to get sick and call in a day off this Wednesday.
I hope it is successful. I think there should've been more time for the word to spread about this day. I don't know if the people are widely informed enough about this, so we can only hope!!!
OK, so what is it specifically that you are hoping to accomplish by this shut down?
http://wh.gov/bas
How is having the kids leave school going to help anyone? Schools aren't the 1%. You should encourage the kids to stay at school and continue to learn.
How was the vote conducted? Written ballot? email ballot? web ballot?
TY Oakland! Be strongly peaceful. Cheers.
More Power to Occupy Oakland. Fair-ness.
I suggest the ows people purchase a tone of hand warmers, body warmers, toe warmers and stick them in their shoes, and through their clothing, in their hats and keep them in their gloves. They last for eight hours at a time especially if you use the insole warmers for shoes. I work outdoors, so I know. That way nobody can say you breaking the law and you would be warm enough to stand out there. Get them online at whole sale price and check out tingly rubber overboots, stuff it with steger, mukluk wool felt insoles, steger mukluk wool felt liners, wigwam wool acrylic socks, thorless heavy wool trekking socks, an ovn abg as a vapor barrier and then polyester dress socks for another liner, sounds like a lot of packing but its better in layers and theses layers unlike expensive winter boots serve to minimize excessive sweatring in the feet that usually freezes against the outer temperature, you want to hunker down for the winter, follow these rules besides what you have concerning you dress warm clothing and other accessories
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This must be nationwide. And to OWS, do not settle for any solutions from the powers that be. We must do this as individuals, as human beings. Millions of ideas. Millions. The globalists want to use this to better themselves. Keep it human, avoid the collective. Avoid group-think and order. You cannot an arrest an idea and you certainly cannot stop millions of ideas and actions.
I like your comments, Mitch333.
This would be a great way to send a message to all that the power of the people can make changes if they unite together as one.
General Political Strike - drive capital to a halt. Thank you people of Oakland, the strike is the weapon of the working class. Hopefully the rest of the cities can follow your example.
A message from Les Soixante-Huitards: "On ne revendiquera rien, on ne demandera rien. On prendra, on occupera." Forty years without diminished relevancy.
What happened in Oakland is a tragedy and the officers involved need to be disciplined. Seriously.
however, 1600 people does not a city make... is this really practical?
It will be interesting to see what goes down on Wednesday in downtown Oakland.
With Brothers and sisters and first time protestors from all over California, angry locals, striking union laborers, students, and teachers, and city workers, I would not at all be surprised to see 50,000 to 100,000 if not more.
nothing is going to happen on wednesday. no work, no school, no shopping, nothing. strike.
Added too many zeros, by a lot. Closer to 5000, which is impressive... For a street fair.
Oh. And I won't touch on the disgraceful chaos it all turned into.
Way to turn on the people they were meant to represent.
We'll see. I'll be watching.
OAKLAND, WE APPLAUD YOU, but please stay NON-VIOLENT!!!!
Don't fall into the trap set by the "AGENTS PROVOCATEURS" posing as the "Oakland Liberation Front". 90% of them are probably C I A !!!!
OCCUPY WALL STREET Pinback Buttons!
A portion of proceeds will go toward the local movement in the form of food and water. If you have a few extra bucks, drop off a box of apples or anything you can to the folks outside in your community!
Free Shipping Offer! http://buttonbasket.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=25
www.ButtonBasket.com
There's gonna be a few more unemployed people tomorrow. Any one striking should be fired.
This is really amusing. You all are dreaming about how many people are with you. Just look around. Your gatherings are really pretty small. The fact is, there aren't nearly as many of you as you think.
Isn't that cute how a bunch of self serving labor activists have turned OWS (warm bodies) into nothing but an extension (tool) for their own use? Well, they (the self appointed leaders of the "leaderless" OWS) have been busy manipulating behind the scenes:
Mark, I agree with you completely. In fact just last night I was reading the section in Grieder's book on the Fed where he contrasts the class base and resulting politics of 19th vs. 20th century populists (progressive and reactionary respectively). (See bottom of page 265 for his punchline on this.) That's why I spoke of both left and right wing populists today. The kids today at OWS who are proworker, antiracist, antisexist, anti-imperialist, but who think the solution is ending the Fed, or restoring Glass-Steagall, or breaking up the big banks, or moving our money to credit unions -- isn't left populist a fair term for them? And it's meant not in an elitist or dismissive way, but as a sign of their lack of exposure to basic socialist ideas -- for which we all, of course, share some responsibility.
http://www.marxmail.org/msg96959.html
http://www.marxmail.org/threads.html#96936
Aww, love that paternalistic tone. Now, now, you kids, just put away those silly notions about credit unions, ending the Fed, breaking up monster banks and restoring Glass-Steagal. This isn't about that, after all. This is about you as foot soldiers for somebody else and their cause - namely protecting their paychecks and that means corrupt and wealthy union bosses who are in bed with the very politicians putting the screws to you.
lol
"Marx Mail"
You've been had.
It's not Wall Street. Or Capitalism. It's Washington: The US Federal Government spent $125.4 billion US taxpayer dollars in improper payments in 2010: "For fiscal year 2010, federal agencies reported an estimated $125.4 billion in improper payments, an increase of about $16 billion over the fiscal year 2009 estimate of $109.2 billion." http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-11-443R
The Federal Government did make the banks defraud Americans and turn the bank into a giant casino.
We need MORE regulations, so these people get thrown in jail for what they did.
You guys are being used. OWS is OTPOR/CANVAS NGO/CIA operation. Just Google: "ows otpor" and "the revolution business"
For a different point of view, check out this video of Michael Moore on Anderson Cooper on 10/28/11: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oncRpIAPyIc&feature=feedwll&list=WL A month ago Moore was very inarticulate. I believe he gets it now.
What a lame idea. You're going to be targeting many people who are not part of the problem and will lose their support. Some people have small businesses and a day of strike will really hurt them. OWS has become nothing more than a totalitarian group who wants to push its agenda down the throats of everyone. You should target the problem with a solution, instead of targeting everyone without a clear agenda.
If you can not win over the police, control them. This is not a game. We are fighting for our country here. Have 500,000+ volt stun gun on you and a respirator if possible. No one should be getting arrested, the cops can be controlled.
From AmericanThinker dot com (10/31):
The hard progressive left in America has been unleashed into the streets by the community organizer in the White House. The current crop of street pawns, the banal cattle of Occupy Wall Street movement, are fed, herded, and coldly led by the professional agitators from ACORN, SEIU, and the Communist Party of America. These hardcore Alinskyites are well-funded and well-organized. Through a series of set-piece street actions and media events coordinated with the White House, the street cattle's drumbeat attacks on capitalism, property rights, and traditional religious and working class values have successfully dominated the news cycles.
I think they passively abet more than actively manipulate. It's a proxy war
a conspiracy implemented by the president. Do you hear yourself? has your hatred clouded your judgment?
Hmm. Exact opposite of what I said. However, if he were not so incompetent at managing, I do believe that this kind of Alinsky-like polarization is right in his ballywick. He just can't pull it off himself, so he relies on his proxies to do it for him.
Sounds like a conspiracy. What motivation would White House & Co. have ? Did they also unleash the "Arab Spring" ?
Here is your proof: http://www.nycga.net/groups/demands/docs/final-jobs-for-all-%e2%80%93-a-massive-public-works-and-public-service-program
I think they passively abet more than actively manipulate. It's a proxy war
jnl;
I'm getting angry just thinking about the fact that we can so easily shame somebody like Anthony Weiner out of office for photographing his underwear and sending it to a consenting adult--something that had no direct bearing on his official capacity; yet THE WHOLE OF OCCUPY WALL STREET HAS NOT SHAMED A SINGLE POLITICIAN TIED TO WALL STREET CORRUPTION FROM OFFICE. Start with Geithner.
But if we do that we'll have to trash Obama. And that would be awkward. no?
Unfortunately, Geithner has no shame.
Idiots, good luck
While I like the idea of a general strike, and I think anyone who can do it should, I recall a similar suggestion for a walk out from college for a Iraq War Protest.
I was working that day and I had class, so I did not "Walk Out."
With that said, I think there can be a few "not-in-person" action steps.
-Email or write all of your politicians and declare that you support OWS. Let them count the numbers.
-Make OWS support pledges on your facebook page
-Make and post a video in support of OWS
-Make some Occupy Wall Street Art
-Schedule a time you can Occupy and commit to it, if only for an hour
-Write your local newspaper in support of Occupy.
-Show your support and comment on news stories and blogs.
Go ahead and skip work, its not likely to be noticed. I am sure Netflix and Redbox will see an increase in rentals.
I meant: an oven bag as a vapor barrier
The 1% does not have to be in Oakland on Nov 2, just their cronies, so it does not affect them personally. But this does affect the 99% businesses who will be affected, not to mention traffic gridlock, and many interruptions that will affect if not the 99%, the % of the 99% that is in favor of this movement but who cannot participate due to their own particular situation and needs (shutting down one small business might result in someone having less to eat this week).
I completely support the Occupy movement and all that it represents but it has to avoid affectiong others other than the 1% perpetrators.
Just a thought. THX. Ricardo
I've worked in the service industry all my adult life, and one thing I can tell you for certain- if no one goes to work for a day due to weather or any other conditions, they will be stopping in small businesses for one reason or another during the course of the day.
Message to mayors, city councils, police chiefs and street cops of America: It is NOT UP TO YOU whether or not Americans peaceably gather , protest, discuss, play music, use megaphones, or wear masks. It's up to a document called the US CONSTITUTION. Zuccotti Park is no longer just a place- Zuccotti Park is everywhere. You can try to "permit" us to death....but you can't kill an idea. You can't keep down a people's hopes and dreams for a better life...with dignity and freedom....for themselves and their kids. More power to them!
Nowhere does it give anyone the right to "occupy" anything. You have been played and misinformed.
cheers ;) -- we are boycotting christmas, join us
They can use law to "permit" us and wars. The law are unfair. That is why we must change their law by "occupy".
What idea?
The First Amendment is not absolute, it allows government to regulate the time of protest, place of protest and manner of protest in the interest of the greater good as affirmed multiple times by the Supreme Court as long as it does so in a neutral manner toward all groups.
So yes, government can regulate when and where. The ONLY reason you haven't been cleared from Zucotti Park is that while open to the public under the rules of the owner, Brookfield, Brookfield, not the city, controls the land the park is on. The city can only evict you IF Brookfield requests it. The moment they tire of this you are out.
Don't believe me? Look how accommodating the City of NY has been when you tried to march to and it appeared you intended to occupy Washington or Union Squares.
You have a right to peacefully protest WITHIN the law, your cause does not give the you right to do whatever you want, whenever you want.
we are building a new government with a new authority, we can do that because we are the people and we are the government. we will soon be able to ignore our current oppressive authority that is in fact governed by the 1%.
viva la revolucion
No, the supreme court says that, not the constitution. The supreme court also says corporations are people and it's okay if they control our country. The people who live in this country and who that decision affects will decide that, thanks.
You can't see the forest for the trees. We are ultimately just a group of people, and laws are just laws, they are not handed down by god.
It is ultimately up to the people. If enough people disagree with the government, then the government is corrupt by definition and the laws they disagree with are invalid.
and the supreme court was wrong....by all indications when you want to protest it is over something that is unpopular....and govt will always have those laws to stop unpopular protest. It was done on purpose to squash decent. Any readings of Madison and Jefferson will clearly laugh at the supreme court rulings we have had. Precedent does not equal true constitutionality. Never has, or Dred Scot would still be around.
Brookfield has wanted us out since the beginning but iirc the city pressured them to deal with it. They've even passed out silly pamphlets with "rules" meant to get us that said things like we couldn't leave our backpacks laying around. We used their rules as toilet paper because Brookfield no longer owns the property formerly known as Zuccotti Park. This land is now known as Liberty Square. It belongs to the people and it will continue to belong to the people.
Our presence is a show of force. We're not protesters, we're a community. While we remain peaceful, the police still know that if they attempt to evict us by violent force, people might choose to defend themselves and their homes. NO ONE wants that to happen. Even if we didn't defend ourselves and let the cops attack us, the public outrage would be so incredible (as we saw with Oakland) that the city government would lose a great deal of power (and power doesn't like losing power.) These are the only reasons why we haven't been invaded despite repeated attempts by Brookfield and the city.
thats why the movement will have more teeth, more space, and more legality with no BS private property loopholes if it is moved to Washington DC. That land is by far 100 percent the land of the people. no private property worries.
LOL
Wait, Jart is that true? that Brookfield no longer owns the property formerly known as Zuccotti Park? I am so amazed and impressed that you guys were able to seize private property from people who don't even need it. Well done and this should be inspiration for Occupiers everywhere. Private property only exists if WE allow it and right now we do NOT allow it. And it sound like you are saying you will defend the park that is now yours with force with need be. The cops better beware. RIght on guys and Great Job OWS!
Wait. Everything I just said directly contradicts the individual right to freedom. Now I"m confused. We are for freedom, right? .
freedom from claims to own parts of the earth we all inhabit, freedom from oppression by a failed capitalist system that does not and will not ever guarantee any person the right to life, liberty and protection.
that kind of freedom, you can't find this is some textbook, it is a product of free thought. unlike most people in the old system, we in the new one are immune to vanity and we do not let others give us our opinions or perspectives through media propaganda.
you'll eventually get it, if you want to.... ;)
No you moron, ownership is just a social convention. Of course we have to be careful about changing things too much for fear of unintended consequences, but there are all kinds of limits society has boxed the concept of ownership in with.
You can't own people as slaves anymore, thank goodness, although people like you would have it otherwise. You don't get to destroy land or other natural resources willy nilly whether you "own" it or not.
And don't get me wrong, there are many of these things, like some parts of zoning (determines what you can do with your own land), that do have very adverse consequences, and should be backed off of.
But ultimately the concept of ownership only exists under the assumption that it is beneficial. Brookfield never earned the land. They never worked for it, they certainly did not make it! Denying it to them does not cause any adverse fallout - it does not take away the incentive to earn things to own things.
Owning things you earn is good. Brookfield owning this park is bad. Pretty straightforwards.
In contrast to people like you, I have the knowledge and cognitive horsepower to make decisions on a more fine grained basis, to prune away the rotten parts so the tree can be healthy again. Rather than relying on blunt instruments like letting it go rotten and infested with vermin and corruption because I am terrified of harming the tree.
Oh, thanks Genius. I have learned from you several things. 1) I am a moron. 2) I support slavery. 3) Brookfield "buying" Zucotti park does not make them the "owners" of the property. (you are wrong by the way and you should be glad because if NYC owned the park the camp would be gone. and 4) I have no knowledge nor cognitive horsepower, (thus am a moron, see #2). Thank you for the fantastic exchange of productive dialogue and conversation that OWS is supposed to be about. They should put your face on a t-shirt.
While I actually agree with some of your ideals, the fact that you can't seem to create a post with out using the term "moron" makes you appear immature and rigid. Now call me a moron..
If this upsets you then what did you think the word occupy meant? We're reclaiming public/private spaces stolen for the people, democratizing them, using them to rebuild communities and meet the needs of the public. I think that trumps brookfield's "right "to a piece of paper guaranteeing them despot like authority over that land which allows them to use the police to enforce its use as a bougeois park for wall st. bankers.
If you can "reclaim" private property (not even talking about public land wrt Zuccotti), then, what's stopping somebody else, from reclaiming it from you, including the "original" (sic) owners?
And if you now have the right to the land, then, what despot like authority are you going to use to enforce it as your bourgeois land?
This is circular logic. At best.
BTW, is it despot like authority that is splitting up the various clicks of occupiers? Maybe y'all will have your own civil war within the park?
BTW, are these the same Wall St bankers OWS gave its unaccounted for whopping thousands to?
Others can absolutely reclaim it. Land can only be held by a show of force. It can be a nonviolent threat to state power or it can be the tear gas, tasers and rubber bullets used by police. The question that matters is who will win? Will be it be a fascist government and its corporate overlords using it for the benefit of the 1%? Or will it be the people who'll collectively use it for the benefit of the 99%? You'll get far more utility from the latter. You'll also get more freedom because having such spaces breaks public dependence upon power structures.
Others can reclaim it? Not justly. You sound like a utilitarian. And let's not generalize to land overall. There is no need for using such a blunt instrument..
Ownership of land certainly has it's place, including here.
You say utilitarian like it's an insult. Also if you think private ownership of public spaces by corporations who deny use of that space to the public while also receiving millions in government handouts is justice then I don't know what to say. Private property is an inherently unjust system.
But what if said people are fascist?
More freedom? This is circular.
Yes indeed. Now come the OWS militias, the tribunals, the hangings perhaps? Do they execute spies? What if a pack of accountants comes and seizes a corner of the park - will they declare war? When do they start building infrastructure - power plants, sewage treatment, plumbing . .?
Up is down. Left is right. Republican is Democrat. Peacemakers are warmongers.
Strange days are these.
You missed the nonviolent part.
It just hasn't come yet. The dystopia presented herein arises when the "consensus" (aka "mob rule") process breaks down.
How about restorative justice? Worked much better in Aboriginal societies than hangings or prisons. ;)
They didn't even have a police force and seemed to get along quite fine because they had much more enlightened values like equality and respect; and a noticeable absence of greed.
I'm loving it! Militias, tribunals, hangings, have long been in order!
[Removed]
oooh ya . . . nobody hurts me in that special way that you do gayhomo!
Everybody knew you like getting fcked in the ass the minute you opened your mouth here...
Bait taken. It's like shooting fish in a barrel with you guys . . .
So, you mean you're not only trespassing and destroying private property, but the local government is complicit? I bet anything the city ends up paying a huge fee for the damages in the future... damages that everyone in NY will end up paying.
you've said a mouthful there. good on you!
That is extremely undemocratic... you can only protest if you do it in a way that doesn't annoy other people or the government...
Wrong. The most important thing of all is that it works. Those who will give up freedom for security (or in your case, mere convenience) will lose both and deserve neither - which founding father said that again?
"You can only protest if you do it in a way that doesn't annoy other people or the government"
What is a protest supposed to do if it doesn't annoy and rattle people? How can you expect to get a redress of grievances if no one cares if you protest? The constitution doesn't say "the people have a right to assemble and petition for a redress of grievances as long as it doesn't annoy, inconvenience or offend anyone."
amen
Undemocratic - You may have a point there.
How did the native Americans loose there land
Some consistency makes sense.
The Native Americans did not have deeds to any land in North America. Readers will say well, that was not “their way.”
Oh, and what, pray tell, was “their way?”
Violent conquest
In fact, “their way” was violent conquest. In other words, they operated almost exactly like modern-day street gangs. They had their territory. They sought to expand it and did so by murdering neighboring (streetless at the time) street gangs—bashing heads with tomahawks, stabbing, shooting arrows into vital organs. They were also into kidnapping. Just a lovely group of innocent primitives before the evil white man arrived and corrupted them.
That was also the way of our European ancestors. It was “their way” for everybody on earth thousands of years ago when there were no countries, only tribes. Then there became two ways: violent conquest of nations by other nations coinciding with deeds supported by the rule of law within each country.
And that was the situation in the 1400s, 1500s, 1600s, 1700s and 1800s in the whole world.
In other words, the Native American way, violent conquest by tribes, was everybody’s “way” thousands of years ago. And it was their way AND partially our way between when Columbus discovered America in 1492 and around 1900.
When we arrived in the western hemisphere, the only way of acquiring land was violent conquest. That was the Native American way everywhere in the hemisphere. There was no rule of law.
And to the early European visitors to America, that was also their way with regard to foreign lands. When an Indian tribe wanted land, they just took it from another Indian tribe, or tried to. Europeans did the same with regard to land outside the borders of their own rule-of-law country.
So Native Americans have no complaint about how whites took their land before 1900. Those whites were just following the “When in Rome, do as the Romans do” rule.
The real complaint of the American Indians is not that we used violent conquest to take their land, but that we won. Hell, winning is how they got it before we got here.
Here is a quote from Wikipedia about the Five Civilized tribes:
The Five Civilized Tribes were the five Native American nations: the Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, Creek, and Seminole, which were considered civilized by Anglo-European settlers during the colonial and early federal period because they adopted many of the colonists’ customs and had generally good relations with their neighbors.
Isn’t that a nice story? You would think a liberal would like it. Among the customs they adopted were working at jobs and buying farms and businesses. In other words, they got deeds.
Socrates is a name coupled with noble thought, but the name alone does not really give an understanding of the culture that bore the noble gentleman.
Very similar to USA in a vital aspect. Socrates lived in a privileged class supported by a much larger slave class. That situation was common also but rules surrounded the culture in respect to the slave class.
Athens and Sparta were city states with their own governance. When war occurred between them the rules concerning the slave class were obeyed by both sides.
When conquest occurred then the vanquished rallied slaves and promoted them to a heightened status to assist winning back the lost ground. The moral is plain enough.
When Sparta conquered Athens and chose to run both cites as one empire , within a generation the Athenians had taken over governance. The rigorous and efficient soldier culture of the Spartans was no match for the greater humanistic depth of open ideas and discussion held by the Athenians.
Ideas won over might to put it bluntly.
Your explanation of historic colonizing and conflict is interesting.
To get the other side of the story and make a democratic compromise or even consensus would also would be interesting. It is of course not a one sided story.
The Quakers certainly went through a hard time as renegade settlers encroached onto land occupied by Native Americans and troubles were inflicted on all.
Justification for killing was little different to some situations in the globe today.
Deeds at that time belonged to Europe, a foreign culture.
The Newland - America
The King of England made a decree thus taking possession of the land after gaining some land in the North ( now Canada) from the French who were at war with the natives for years..
This Proclamation was not made with any agreement by the various native tribes who had many times the population of settlers. ( Imperial arrogance )
The Royal Proclamation of October 7, 1763.
This proclamation by King George III reserved title in land to the Indians, subject to alienation only by the Crown
Much later after " Indian Removal" was rampant. unchecked by colonial govt.
The common justification went something along these lines.
God made the land We are the people of God So the land belongs to us.
"In the United States Indian title is the subservient title held by Native Americans in the United States to the land they customarily claimed and occupied. It was first recognized in Johnson v. M'Intosh , 21 U.S. (8 Wheat) 543 (1823)."
" It very early became accepted doctrine in this Court that although fee title to lands occupied by Indians when the colonists arrived became vested in the sovereign - first the discovering European nation and later the original states and the United States - a right of occupancy in the Indian tribes was nevertheless recognized. That right, sometimes called Indian Title and good against all but the sovereign, could be terminated only by sovereign act. Once the United States was organized and the Constitution adopted, these tribal rights to Indian lands became the exclusive province of the federal law. Indian title, recognized to be only a right of occupancy, was extinguishable only by the United States. Oneida Indian Nation v. County of Oneida , 414 U.S. 661, 667 (1974).
The usual method of extinguishing Indian title was by treaty"
The history is a sad one . Even the unjust laws were ignored and illegal slaughter was brought about by corrupt practices involving armies, mercenaries and land looters.
A rotten foundation. Things have not changed, but you can't bond a nation together without resolving those long standing differences.
Leadership from enlightened thinking, determined efforts to setting a better path and learning from history all are needed.
Many people have educated themselves and seek a better way that is inclusive for all.
Even though Socrates came from a slave supported state, he developed a legacy of thinking about the ethics of human existence and how man could enhance the human spirit for the common good.
A legacy that is indeed a high aspiration.
INSTEAD - Our Legacy
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3249.htm
wow, do they actually teach that bs in your history classes? Never heard of the trail of tears I guess... I know it makes people feel better if they think they "civilized" the non-christian savages; but really, it was just an excuse for mass murder. Native tribes respected their earth mother, and each other; they were not violent savages throwing tomohawks, at least not until it became clear that the white man had come destroy their way of life.
Trail of Tears
True, the Cherokees had their deeds taken away and were forced to leave the East Coast and walk to Oklahoma in the Trail of Tears—even though they sued (very liberal) and won at the U.S. Supreme Court level. But generally, the Indians who switched to the rule of law, rather than the rule of ancient conquest, got to keep their deeded land.
The deeds to reservations essentially recognize, and convert to rule of law, successful violent conquests by American Indians from before the white-man days. Arguably, the various Indian tribes could claim that their lands were stolen from them by other Indian tribes before the White man arrive. Why don’t they? Double standard. We white men know that well. Basically, everyone wants the rule that maximizes their amount of land, e.g., first come first served; high-water mark of their group’s conquests; tribal territory the day before the white men took some of it; etc.
That’s a bunch of pure selfishness and the notion that it is morally superior is equally pure liberal BS
Socrates, I'm sorry but I lost the location of your reply to one of my posts just when I wanted to respond. I think it was about reforms. Is there any way to search for individual comments on this website? I wanted to mention a lengthy one I wrote in reply to someone else, that pretty much summarized my response.
I think we were talking about replacing the state, and I mentioned a talk years ago in the Socialist Workers Party by George Novak, a Harvard-educated member, on Reform and Revolution (also published by Pathfinder Press as a book of the same name). He said there was no contradiction between fighting for reforms under capitalism, because they preserved the right of the working class to organize (I.e., civil rights), mobilized the masses out of passively accepting the status quo, and fought important victories that made workers' lives better.
Novak said that ultimately the reforms we all want cannot be granted under capitalism, and a revolution will be necessary, which will have to smash the entire state apparatus including the army and police. He said that even the leaders of the American Revolution still thought they could win their demands for reforms under British rule, and only went over to the idea of revolution a couple MONTHS before the revolution.
Thank you very much for your thoughts.
No way to search but I know what thread it was under that we spoke :)
Call To Action - Join The Month Of Global Uprising about 1/3 the way down. Have a good day.
Hi, thanks very much, and I'll go back and look. I might have to get back to you later, because OWS is taking up hours of my time, every day now. My problem, if you could call it that, is I think OWS is the most important movement in a generation and that its success depends on adopting the right political strategies. So I can't resist adding the revolutionary ideas I learned in the SWP, in the service of what I believe is, ultimately, of life-and-death struggle--for politics and, basically, the fate of humanity.
I hope that doesn't sound immodest, but now it looks like I'm not going to be able to keep up with the profusion of ideas on the OWS site--already up to 800-plus for some topics.
Thanks again, I really appreciate your learned comments and a lot of wonderful history, and thanks very much for the information.
Thank you, and I appreciate your input as well Sir the only way to make a truly educated decision is to learn and understand all available possibilities.
Hi thanks for the reply, and I have got to swear off the internet or I'm going to be in trouble. I just want to let you know how I've resolved my guilt over not being more active. I found the website of Socialist Action, which was formed by many long-time members who were expelled from the Socialist Workers Party in 1983, and which you might be interested in reading. (The SWP, which was a great revolutionary force in the anti Vietnam war movement and in legalizing abortion, has since self-destructed, tragically. They have virtually abandoned the class struggle in practice, although they do publish some good articles in The Militant online.)
I was overwhelmingly relieved by what I read on the Socialist Action website. There are two very good articles from the past couple days, one supporting OWS. It's fantastic that they're based in Oakland, which seems to have the biggest OWS following so far.
You're right about learning and understanding, and that's one big reason I'm grateful there are still some full-time revolutionaries, as in Socialist Action. The SWP, descended from Trotsky, always had a core group of leaders who worked full-time for the party. But all the members, even those who had to work at outside jobs, considered themselves professional revolutionaries. They were steeped in studies of history, politics, and economics, though of course from a very different vantage point than those subjects are usually taught--at least before a form of intellectual Marxism became popular in universities.
So I'm deferring as much as possible now to an organization that, although small, can do the kind of work of researching, compiling, and analyzing the current struggles that's essential to being informed--and active. I was very interested in SA's characterizations of the recent Arab revolutions, and of Obama, who they say has done more as a servant of the 1% than Bush would ever have dared. I'm not able on my own to formulate a correct political line in the present, even though I understand a lot about what happened in the past 40 years. So I'm overwhelmingly grateful there are people who have devoted their entire adult lives to revolutionary socialism who I hope can provide the leadership we need.
Thanks again.
uh huh... successful violent conquests; my understanding is that prior to the arrival of Europeans, the idea of "owning" land was something they didn't really consider at all; and I'm also quite sure that the violent image your are attempting to portray is entirely a creation of European historians.
The truth is your ancestors were welcomed with open arms, as brothers, and proceeded to stab them in the backs (literally), and take their lands. If you look up "pure selfishness" in the dictionary, you'll find its something a lot closer traditional Anglo-protestant values than Native American values.
Endemic warfare is the state of continual, low-threshold warfare in a tribal warrior society. Endemic warfare is often highly ritualized and plays an important function in assisting the formation of a social structure among the tribes' men by proving themselves in battle.
Ritual fighting (or ritual battle or ritual warfare) permits the display of courage, masculinity and the expression of emotion. Thus one can view the practice as a standard form of conflict-resolution and/or as a psycho-social exercise. Native Americans often engaged in this activity.
Warfare occurs or occurred much more rarely in most other hunter-gatherer cultures, but only some indigenous peoples of the Americas were historically hunter-gatherers
How the Indians Lost Their Land: Law and Power on the Frontier
By Stuart Banner
http://www.law.ucla.edu/faculty/all-faculty-profiles/professors/Pages/stuart-banner.aspx
(Harvard University Press, 2005)
Stuart Banner, a law professor, does not deny that between the early 17th century and the end of the 19th, nearly the entire land area of the United States was transferred from Indian to non-Indian ownership. But in How the Indians Lost Their Land, he offers an avowedly revisionist account of the way this happened. Previous scholars, he claims, have overemphasised the direct seizure of Indian land, failing to recognise that the process of acquisition proceeded mainly through legal forms: namely, purchase by individuals, groups or governments, and the signing of treaties between Indians and the United States. Banner criticises traditional accounts for denying that Indians had their own concept of private property and were tricked into selling land, and for maintaining that whites believed the native inhabitants had no real claim to land ownership. Actually, Banner insists, there were strong reasons to purchase the land and not simply to seize it. The early settlers lacked the power to dispossess the Indian population, and throughout the colonial era, with the French competing with the English for Indian loyalty, wholesale expropriation would have been politically counterproductive.
Richard White’s The Middle Ground (1991)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_White_(historian)
(which numerous subsequent books have been influenced by.)
Makes clear that to avoid constant warfare and ensure legally valid titles and an orderly distribution of land among settlers, the English generally recognised Indian property rights and purchased land rather than simply taking it.
I guess we can agree to disagree. I will take the oral history of Native Americans over a Harvard Law Professor who would probably like to think that was the case.
There were states which payed fees Indian scalps; and this fellow is attempting to explain that the Indians all made legitimate deals and happily moved onto reserves. I don't think so.
Not all made deals just the majority. There has never been any system that everyone agreed on totaly.
And yes we can agree to disagree, oh did I mention I have a few Native American ancestors (Siksika also known as Blackfoot) have a good evening sir
as do I, and good nite. :)
Through large scale mass murder, theft of their lands, and a then coordinated attempt by the government to exterminate their culture?
Its really too bad because the people running the US Government could really stand learn a thing or two from their traditional peaceful, spiritual, and non-wasteful cultural values... or perhaps their ideas about direct democracy.
At least in the last 50 years North American society has evolved to to the point where we only shoot our own citizens with rubber bullets instead of real ones; but point taken, sometimes I forget that neither America nor Canada were founded on particularly democratic principles.
They lost their land to occupiers, just like every other culture in history lost THEIR land. Nothing new or unique there . . .
Agreed.
As alexrai points out the history of USA is soaked in blood and not that of a foe but just a people who got in the way of others with metal and guns.
Predators.
The culture that has developed seems to be cheering crowds without much appreciation of the finer points of where we are traveling. Watch any political rally, mass cheering from unthinking mobs. Mobs can be led to go anywhere. Massive atrocities get public backing. We are manipulated against out finer human values.
from my understanding:a part of the 1%of 1776, crafted a list of grief, posted to those that could read (which was maybe 3-5% more), sent such grief on a one way communication gap of 3 mo. . today, is much different: you should be able to talk to clown in metal box, go to window 1 and/ or 2, and get what you want. we are the product of the 1%.
Squatters?
True. But those are the facts. Why aren't there protests in Chicago? Looking at you Rahm.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2055155/Occupy-Chicago-Michael-Moore-FINALLY-declares-hes-1-cent.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
here's 1st ammendment:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. ”
Just because government HAS put limits on 1st ammendment, doesn't make it leagal
Your rights can not infringe upon another person's rights though, and supersede theirs. For example, we can occupy a park but that can't infringe upon other people's rights to use that park. We can drum, but that can't infringe upon other people's rights to a good night's sleep. We we think we can piss on the ground, but that can't make the ground of a park unsanitary for the lady's kids who will come play there. We can march, so long as we don't block traffic for the guy who wants to drive on the road. So yes, we are guaranteed the right to peaceably assemble, but the peaceable ends when we step on someone else's rights (disturbing the peace.) Once we step on someone else's rights, then the cops can come in and take back their rights for them, that we took.
So yes, understand while we are here in this park, we are occupying, and keeping it from use by others. What we are doing is civil disobedience. But we are using it to send a message. Going about our daily lives doing the same old same old, does not send a message. Most cities have been treating with us carefully, allowing our rights as long as we don't step on the rights of too many other people.
no one can claim to own anything anymore, especially public space, we are reclaiming the resources of the earth for the people of the earth...
again, no one owns anything anymore. we do not however intend on evicting people from their homes, that was the old system. we are, however, interested in seizing all foreclosed property claimed to be "owned" and allotting them to homeless people and families in exchange for service to our new system... it's one of our guarantees, what does the old system guarantee?
http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0811e.asp
AMAZING!! Thank you oakland!!!
Now this is what I'm talking about! I have been working on an idea for months now. You can check it out at http://sites.google.com/site/onecompanyatatime. The beauty of it is that you can continue your life as usual, but still strike a powerful blow that will shake things up in the corporate world. They will wonder who will be next. We need to do something besides marching. Marching is great and I’m glad they’re out there, but there will need to be a next step.
Asking students to walk out of school?? So your asking college kids who pay for school to walk out and strike, or are you asking highschool or lower to just leave. Students have a responsibility to be in school not to strike for whatever reason. Don't ask them to walk out. Keep students out of this.
If someone is paying for their own college education, then I think it's up to them and is their right to skip for a day if they want to. No one will hold a gun to their heads to do it. It will be under their own free will.
I think all the 99% should have the opportunity to take part in the people's revolution. Yeah...I think it's the beginning of our revolution. One day out of school to participate in a great movement.....it's worth it. And, students are now, and always will be effected by everything that goes on. They'll be helping to build a new world, where perhaps, education will be free to all.
, , , and we will dine on unicorn steaks every day!
never cared for unicorn... it's too sweet... now a good Angus steak, properly aged...mmmmmm Also... you can't beat a little pixie dust to finish it off... kind of makes the steak a little lighter...
. . . but so hard to find these days. It's all fake pixie dust, with MSG in it
very true... although Leprechaun butter is still pretty pure... just tricky to get ahold of.
...and Free Markets will fully regulate themselves, with new budding ideas bubbling up from an open society, with no one person using the lack of rules to take over the whole system.
But there ARE rules: Contracts are enforced, and market feedback is always in play
Right.... like the "rules" that kept the market and housing sectors from crashing and how the market regulated itself not to commit immense fraud.... right?
Let's prevent the government for foisting another Fannie Mae on us, along with meddling in the housing market to make it "affordable", and we will find some common ground
Quit blaming the government solely. Your view is so shallow, as you continuously refuse to put the blame on all the other guilty parties as well. That tells me you're either a 1% parasite, or you long to be one.
The "other" guilty parties only did what our government allowed them to do. I am fairly liberal... and even I can see that. Protesting the police brutality in Oakland is one thing... but thinking that the entire country yelling at the rich people in their individual city will accomplish anything remotely close to change is silly. Protest the people who write the codes. As long as Wall Street's despicable behavior remains legal, there is nothing, but nothing you, me or anyone else can do.
"The "other" guilty parties only did what our government allowed them to do." So, if the government told you that you could legally kill people and not be punished for it, would you let go of your moral compass and do it..... just because the government allowed you to do it?
That is such a weak argument..... to not hold guilty those who have done wrongly. And as an FYI, the NY State attorney general and other state's attorney generals are investigating and going after those who are guilty.
Would I, personally? No.
But others would, you twit, and there wouldn't be a damn thing you could do about it except confront those who write the laws. Good lord.
You know, Negative Nancy, it's that kind of talk that won't win you any 'followers' among the rest of us 99% out here. How about if you get Unicorn Steaks AND a free pony every year (as is your constitutional right in this brave new world that will be created, right?) - would that cheer you up?
Just from reading FreeMarkets' (extremely rational) other posts, it doesn't seem as though he only blames one party. His focus seems to be on the party most likely to be affected by such a movement (since, you know, we VOTE these turds in). CEOs, boardmembers? Not so much. Yell at 'em all you want, but people are going to keep buying their products. They'll keep making money. They'll laugh all the way to the bank.
But then, I'm probably a 1% parasite or long to be one, so what do I know?
The Wall Street crooks would be affected by the movement, if it can effectively end the corruption in government. It all goes hand in hand.
Funny... I thought aspiring to be part of the 1% parasites was the American Dream... when did that change? Do we hate Steve Jobs now? Cuz I might have a hard time with that.... I'm a huge fan of Toy Story...
Did Steve Jobs purposely put the country into financial ruin? I think not. Bringing up Jobs is a moot point.
It most certainly is not moot. Not all of the 1% is the problem. That is exactly my point. Using a blanketed figure like the 1% rich number is too broad. It encompasses people it shouldn't and appears to trash the American Dream. Which, if you noticed, was exactly my point
I just would prefer to avoid a new era of Fatcats and Robber Barons. While too much Government is a problem, they should act as referee and rules committee, impartial with no influence from the players. Monopoly laws are all carved to hell right now, Glass Steagall has become a joke, Patent Laws are a mess... but with a true free market these items would pretty much not be there anyway.
Don't get me wrong, I am quite pro Capitalism (With just a hint of Socialism - Fire, Police, AND Health should be public based [with option of additional private added]), I am just anti-Conglomeratism. A true Laissez-faire market become Oligarchal or Facist quite quickly... as with anything there needs to be balance.
Agree there needs to be balance - freedom within the rules, which must apply to all. Tax loopholes must be tightened. 83 of the top 100 US companies have their HQs in tax havens. Of these 83, 74 are involved in Government contracts. How about a rule that states; Government will only procure goods and services from companies that pay federal corporation tax. That should reduce the vast amount of money being siphoned off from the public purse right? Or sounds too simple?
Also, surely you meant to write education in your list of socialist benefits too, at least for minors?
It was a quick example - yes education, also water, a few things that really are a necessity at this point. I did the quick 3 that are usually argued about (Because once you say Socialist - eventually someone screams Obamacare - so I figured might as well just hit that early).
Really the loopsholes need to be removed. Flat-progressive rates. No exemptions, no deductions, etc. Lower the overall rate across the board but remove these items and the net return actually becomes higher - since people would actually be paying the amount owed. Also raise the damned cap - this cap at what is it 150k I think (Not certain - little too busy to go dig the specific atm) for tax is just asinine. It was set when that limit was like making 10mil now - it just never got adjusted for inflation...
I believe Glass Steagall was repealed wasn't it? I guess that makes it nonexistent. Wasn't there some sort of iconic representation of justice that had something to do with scales [balance]?.... I think they already raped her though... :S
A bit of balance here would be good.
As the kids have the greatest stake in the future and are looking at the bleak prospects ahead for most, then to discourage them in lodging protest is not helpful.
If colleges find large numbers are absent then that supports the protest for a better future.
They should perhaps not be called out but welcomed to join for that day.
Payment for a days education may be hard to find for some but if they are sick for a day no refund comes back.
Nothing is gained without some loss along the way. It is shocking that payment is needed for any High School. Just another division in our nation.
Well said.
It's Berkeley. They probably expect the kids to go. However, they better hope the Oakland high school kids don't show up. That'd be a serious mess. Trust me.
That would be interesting. Maybe we should promote this - send buses to get them . . .
POLICE OFFICERS CALLING IN SICK ON NOV. 2ND WOULD BE BRILLIANT!!!! PLEASE DO!!! OUR BEEF IS NOT WITH YOU GUYS. ITS YOUR BOSSES WE HAVE PROBLEMS WITH!
I particularly don't care much for police because never once were they ever able to help me in any situation, so I have no use for them, but thinking about the danger they face every day on the "beats" in NY, New Orleans, LA, KC, Maryland, Ect.... makes me feel that the job they do is one of the most uncompensated jobs in America when you consider the risk/compensation factor.
The police are the 99% as well! We need to gain their support! The ones that are not corrupt would probably be willing to take a vacation, or join the protests, or perhaps even "look the other way" while events are in motion. Make friends with the police around you, be polite, try to win their hearts and minds..... The truth is THEY DO NOT MAKE ENOUGH MONEY TO FACE THE DANGER THEY FACE EVERYDAY. OUR CAUSE MAY BE VERY APPEALING TO THEM ONCE THEY LEARN THEY ARE NOT OUR ENEMY.
Scott Olsen is our first mortar. Poor Scott...... Hopefully he recovers soon.
I couldn't agree more- cops have it hard, so hard, they have become hardened. Treat them with the respect those in power don't give them. Special note: after Scott Olsen was injured, some cops in Las Vegas joined their local 99% for a vigil for Scott- the cops were invited back for a pot luck dinner with the 99%. This is what our country needs.
Dream on my friend. And many other occupations are more dangerous than cop "work" and pay less.
Which is why I do none of the above....... : )
I will also join the Strike, here from the Sahara and I hope the whole world will follow on 2-11! Or atleast look at you in Oakland! I was with you when the police attacked you. I fought ABC7News for putting off there choppercam. I was twittering that they were corrupt journalist. They spoke about going for a refuel (TWO times in 15 min.) and afyer they showed empty streets of Oakland. But I didn't accept that eighter... I fought through twitter and all my messages (i think about one hundred or more) appeared on there own website! It was very nice to see that they didn't liked it and started to film emptystreets! LOL, they are simply corrupt and I saw the prove! My twitteraccount @philip_far_away Stay strong and the first real wallstreet arrest is made bytheway A financial manager Grupta is arrested for some kind of finacial fraud! 10 milj. dollar bail! CU All Stay strong Stay dedicated! Philip...
There is so much to say after so many years of oppression. I feel that this the thought behind the concept of 'we are the 99%'- we can't exclued anyone from the forum- there is too much to say and we have waited too long, wanting to be heard, so we try to say it all at once. Exciting, isn't it? Let's keep our voices out there for the benefit of everyone.
Then you should probably tell the admins of this site to stop deleting accounts and posts of people that disagree with some of the ideas presented.
Agreed. Can't complain others are doing X and then go do X yourselves.
Oppression? Silence maybe. But oppression? that's a bit melodramatic.
Hmmm
Oppression seems about right and we are not represented.
The bought politicians represent their patrons.
The 3 WTC buildings were demolished by explosives.
Bush lied as did Cheney
People got rich and others died
Patriot Act
Taxes bailing out corrupt bankers
I think oppressed is an understatement
Nothmg has kept anyone from speaking up. An awakening perhaps. Oppression hardly.
When persistent scientifically based peer reviewed hard evidence is published on the web for several years and yet never appears in the news media then surely that is clearly indicates oppression.
The first casualty when a nation suffers oppression is gross deliberate distortion of information closely followed by organised suppression of factual and vital counter information. All oppression follows these lines. Clearly we have been subjugated to the the devious agenda of war.
Over a million lives have been lost as a result.
It is not a small and insignificant matter and will haunt America long after the perpetrators have made off with their booty.
I respect your opinion. but cannot but hold that this nation is not oppressed.
There are million out their suffering with the effects of corporate and govt enacted injustices which are plain to see BUT little action to redress the poverty, unemployment, shrinking access to education, censorship of media, Govt initiated sponsorship of fear, demonization of whistle blowers and social reform, state backed destruction of the environment, and a raft of other destructive actions that have divided the nation from a fair and democratic hope.
Only 48% vote. Disillusionment and repression of the democratic system by organised megabux have taken over and that is what OWS is fighting.
The oppression is such that there is not other way for voice to be heard.
Well if nothing has kept anyone from speaking up, why didn't they speak up? Hurr durr.
Maybe it was stupidity, probably it was propaganda, and definitely it was the use of FORCE.
Apathy? I have no idea why people didn't speak up. I know we marched against the war. What force kept you from speaking up?
You don't know much about protesting, do you?
Actually, I do. I also know what the word oppression means. Anyway. What kept you from speaking up?
The will and the power of the people cannot be stopped by a few. The more people get invovled the better. If you work take the day off. If you don't work join in the marches. But most important let your voices be heard and your numbers be shown.
I will send my good thoughts. Good luck.
ok is this a good idea? everyone at wall street moves the whole occupation to Oakland for the winter?
My last account and all posts got deleted for disagreeing with the approach taken by #ows and for arguing against libertarian socialist ideas.
I would like admins of this site to admit that they are stifling free speech on this site and that the #ows movement is being hypocritical when it talks about being democratic and open.
You must be crazy. Oakland. I've lived in Oakland. I see a bunch of white people in that crowd. That ain't Oakland. Those are kids from Berkeley.
99% white and lazy.
I don't think they're lazy; They got in to Berkeley. They're just not Oakland by any means.
We have systemic failures everywhere. Washington DC's answer: more system!
Don't you ever wonder why the more the government does, the worse things get?
I don't wonder... the answer is simple... Our elected "representatives" are bought and paid for by corporate interests... That's the long and short of it.
Non-sequitur.
Don't dare speak of government. This crowd is all for bigger government, more government programs, more handouts, more welfare state. Notice they wont criticize wasteful government spending even though the damage dwarfs corporate greed by a longshot.
nothing in the known universe dwarfs greed... corporate or not. Also, nothing (including light) travels faster than bad news.
Why do people always group occupiers together, we all have similar and different views at the same time. Im a conservative, not Republican or Democrat by any means, simply independent and conservative though the ows gets a liberal label. I want smaller government, i want programs to help those truly in need, but tighter regulations on to whom and for how long they are handed out. Ya cant group us all and I know their are many occupiers like myself and many with varying opinions. OWS is all of us having a voice, hoping for a future where the peoples vote and voices count for each and every decision our governing officials make that effect each and every Americans lives. That's my take on it anyway....to each his own. Support OWS or not, let your voice be heard. Go democracy!
There are so many assumptions because OWS refuses to create a message. Period.
So. Those of us wondering what this is really all about... well... we wonder.
There's a lot of information to go on here, you know. And a lot of it is extremely liberal... and socialist. I am liberal, to an extent, but I am not a socialist.
And you are a "group". No matter how disconnected you may seem... you are all "Occupiers" and therefore, you are all share in each other's triumphs and suffer in each other's failures.
If you want to stop being misunderstood, work to create a common theme in this movement. Because if someone else does it for you (and eventually, someone will) you might just find yourself neck deep in something you want nothing to do with.
".....i want programs to help those truly in need, but tighter regulations on to whom and for how long they are handed out." I'm a liberal (socially liberal) independent, and I agree with you.
bethlany88
Please do some research on the conservative movement throughout this country (Its 90% smoke & 10% Mirror). Then look at the Legislation they pass when elected. It's what led us to this point ... ows.
I agree with bethlany88. The whole point of the OWS is that we ALL want to be heard! Not just those with money or political power. I don't have to agree with all or any of bethlany88's opinions or ideas and she doesn't have to agree with mine. But we can all agree that this great nation is in BIG trouble if something isn't changed SOON! Agree with the 99% or not, we will soon all pay for the careless spending and corruption of the elite and the politicians.
lol sorry I wasn't specific. I didn't mean conservative in my political views, I meant conservative in my moral views and independent on all other fronts.
You belong with the Tea Party. These folks are delusional, and if they succeeded we would see the most fascist society in history
are you saying OWS is delusional or the Tea Party ?
OWS
Both. Both of these groups have just taken Extreme left and Extreme right to whole new extremes. Don't be fooled. Each have good ideas, yes. But neither group is anything you want to see have any sort of real power. That is fact.
The Tea Party merely wants to reset the government to comply with the Constitution. That does not seem extreme to me.
OWS wants to demolish the Constitution and replace it with . . . I can't actually figure out what
It doesn't... until their "literal" interpretations of the constitution start destroying human rights. Not to mention all the Tea Partiers I hear claiming theirs is as much a religious movement as any.
No. They don't belong in control either. I'm sorry. I'm not sure who does, but it's neither one of these two groups.
How could a literal interpreation of the Constitution destroy human rights? I don't get it. While many in the Tea Party have strong religious views, I don't think the movement is viewed as anything but secular (like the Constitution itself).
Well. As best I can tell, the constitution was written by land owning married men, for land owning married men.
It has taken decades of Supreme Courts to sit and interpret the sing song vagueness that is the US Constitution so that it represents fairness for all walks of life, as it applies to today's society.
Allowing a religious bias to take control of those interpretations seems risky... at best... to me.
I've read many of your posts, you and I share a lot of common ground. Just not this one.
I think people have gotten the heebie jeebies over religion, and I say this as an atheist. The Constitution is based on Judeo Christian values. That is because over a thousand years of philosophical thought was driven by Christianity. Christianity helped define the dignity of the individual. This is just a fact that seems to drive people crazy. It doesn't bother me: I don't know any conservatives who want to establish some kind of theocracy. Like the whole "birther" thing, it is more a figment of liberal paranoia than it is fact.
Nor to conservatives want to return to slavery, the subjugation of women, etc. As you know, conservatism is about individual liberty and personal responsibility - concepts at odds with infringing on the rights of others. On the other hand, I don't go along with the 20th century creation of new "rights": Too many of these are just entitlements. When we recognized that slaves were humans, we did not need to invent new "rights" for them - they have all the same inalienable rights as any other human. Same with women, etc. Same, in my mind, with the unborn.
So I just don't get this fear of the Tea Party.
ok, why delusional?
fyi, that is conservative in moral views, my economic views vary widely. Again labeling... thanks. Mature. :-)
FreeMarkets is a troll. We all should just ignore her/him.
how do you strike if you don't have a job?
Don't spend your money on anything that day. Be a striking consumer.
Good idea.
If you don't have a job, you can be there in someone's place. There is still a lot of fear in the country. Support those who still fear expressing themselves- be there for them.
very good, that is correct. Get involved people. Don't sit back and let watch. Get and and gain in the marches and strikes, bring about good changes by action.
You just show up at the main protest site in solidarity with the others who come out.