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Forum Post: Proposed List Of Demands For Occupy Wall St Movement!

Posted 3 years ago on Sept. 25, 2011, 3:46 p.m. EST by anonymous ()
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Admin note: This is not an official list of demands. This is a forum post submitted by a single user and hyped by irresponsible news/commentary agencies like Fox News and Mises.org. This content was not published by the OccupyWallSt.org collective, nor was it ever proposed or agreed to on a consensus basis with the NYC General Assembly. There is NO official list of demands.


Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. This demand can only be met by ending "Freetrade" by re-imposing trade tariffs on all imported goods entering the American market to level the playing field for domestic family farming and domestic manufacturing as most nations that are dumping cheap products onto the American market have radical wage and environmental regulation advantages. Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr.

Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. To do this all private insurers must be banned from the healthcare market as their only effect on the health of patients is to take money away from doctors, nurses and hospitals preventing them from doing their jobs and hand that money to wall st. investors.

Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.

Demand four: Free college education.

Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand.

Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now.

Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America's nuclear power plants.

Demand eight: Racial and gender equal rights amendment.

Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live.

Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system.

Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Debt forgiveness of sovereign debt, commercial loans, home mortgages, home equity loans, credit card debt, student loans and personal loans now! All debt must be stricken from the "Books." World Bank Loans to all Nations, Bank to Bank Debt and all Bonds and Margin Call Debt in the stock market including all Derivatives or Credit Default Swaps, all 65 trillion dollars of them must also be stricken from the "Books." And I don't mean debt that is in default, I mean all debt on the entire planet period.

Demand twelve: Outlaw all credit reporting agencies.

Demand thirteen: Allow all workers to sign a ballot at any time during a union organizing campaign or at any time that represents their yeah or nay to having a union represent them in collective bargaining or to form a union.

These demands will create so many jobs it will be completely impossible to fill them without an open borders policy.

Lloyd J Hart 508-687-9153

1701 Comments

1701 Comments


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[-] 6 points by TruckerTom (11) 3 years ago

Way too many demands, Lloyd. I'm not the only person saying this. Occupy Wallstreet needs a laser-like focus if you want to get people on your side!

[-] 5 points by navingrey (5) 3 years ago

These demands are inconsistent. And rather funny.

Take, for example, 1 (no free trade) and 9 (free immigration). they have the same effect, economically speaking

If Foreign is Labour abundant, then free trade would cause wages to fall at home and rise at foreign. Free factor movements (the phrase economists use to describe the movement of capital or labour instead or goods) have the same effect.

Yes, there is a consensus on this.

Try this: http://nationofbeancounters.wordpress.com/2011/10/04/this-is-funnier-if-you-ve-finished-third-year-international-trade/

[-] 2 points by joeedh (3) 3 years ago

Or amping up alternative energy and banning nuclear power. There is a growing consensus that you cannot reduce both carbon emissions and global poverty without nuclear power.

Look at the twenty dollar minimum wage; this is why the American left is so feared by the public, compared to the left in other advanced nations. They haven't acknowledged the dangers of structural unemployment at all. I'm always struck by how stupid the left in this country is (not that the left in other nations are any better; they haven't fixed the employment problems they created, but at least their politicians admit that they bear responsibility for them).

[-] 1 points by acriticalthinker (8) 2 years ago

Yes, it IS amazing how stupid the left is, but it is no longer striking or unusual.

[-] 1 points by joeedh (3) 3 years ago

Remember what I said; nuclear power is as much about alleviating global poverty (a highly energy-intensive task) as reducing carbon emissions. It's the only viable alternative to coal for developing countries. Bill Gates has a cool Ted talk on this.

Obviously, the U.S. could cut carbon emissions without nuclear power, although it probably isn't politically feasible (it would push down real wages, which is the one thing politicians will never, ever do). But we do not live in a vacuum. Like it or not, we anchor the global economy, and if we slow down our economy simply to avoid nuclear power, a lot of very poor people in very poor countries will be hurt.

[-] 1 points by DonJ (16) 3 years ago

No nuclear power, it is irresponsible. That is the growing consensus.

[-] 2 points by BrainSlugs83 (2) from Seattle, WA 3 years ago

Agreed. The whole point of this movement is to put people before money. You can't even mine yellow cake without killing people. It's worse than coal. We have better alternatives, the only problems with them is that the 1% don't sit as cushy. Don't give me the "it kills jobs" bullshit guys; decommissioning those plants will take a lot of work (and 10+ years) -- especially cleaning up all the waste that is improperly sealed, etc -- it will create a ton of jobs along with all the design and construction work of new non-nuclear plants, along with all the same "keeping it going" jobs that nuclear plants had.

[-] -1 points by Casper (-8) 3 years ago

Moron #6

[-] 0 points by Lucaselgato (0) 3 years ago

Decommission over 100 power plants and lay off the hundreds of thousands of workers involved with the design, construction, operation, and maintenance of these plants? Now who's irresponsible?

Nuclear power is the key to a viable energy infrastructure. Adding MORE plants adds MORE jobs with LESS pollution at a much more efficient rate than solar, wind, or hydro.

[-] 3 points by TLydon007 (1278) 3 years ago

While I agree with your views on nuclear energy, it would make for a horrible narrative for Occupy Wall Street to get behind. Don't you agree?? It's a great idea. But it just doesn't reflect to values of the protesters.

[-] 1 points by acriticalthinker (8) 2 years ago

Where can I buy the Mr. Fusion thing that I saw on Back to the Future number 1? It ran on beer and trash. Doc's DeLorean ran great on it, and it not only flew but could ACTUALLY do time travel! What? That was just a movie, and not real? The next thing you are going to tell me is that those great demands aren't realistic either. Boo hoo!!!

[-] 1 points by CamilleChristie (4) from East Hampton, CT 3 years ago

Does the word FUKUSHIMA sound familiar to you? Holy crap, what kind of logic prefers irradiating the piss out of the planet and her people when there are other alternatives?

A few good earthquakes, a few huge floods, typhoons..... all those put the entire planet at risk when there are nuclear power plants. It's irresponsible given the fagile shape of our earth.

[-] 2 points by frankleeseaux (3) 3 years ago

Agreed. One power resource which seem abundantly overlooked it geo-thermal, which, when properly implemented would not only produce an abundance of energy, but would greatly offset, if not correct for water shortages through evaporative cooling. The millions of gallons of water vapor released into the atmosphere by each of these plants on a daily basis could be derived from sea water pumped into the earth's core to provide for the steam power to run the turbine-generators. This water vapor is highly distilled water, which would no longer contain any of the chlorine or NaCl, table salt, distillates found in conventional desalinization processes. Thus, both clean potable water, and abundant energy are produced in the same single process. Combined with an intelligent use of hydro, tidal, solar, and wind energy resources, would create an energy abundance, and freedom from the international energy cartels who hold hostage the freedoms and liberties of us all, on a global scale.

[-] 2 points by rockstaa (2) 3 years ago

I agree Geothermal is great, but it isn't perfect either. It's limited in reach because the geological conditions for geothermal power generation isn't distributed equally through the US so it's not viable for every region. And drilling those wells to tap the energy isn't without environmental consequences (the same issue with natural gas drilling). Lots of carcinogens are used in drilling and I don't want that anywhere near underground water sources.

[-] 1 points by acriticalthinker (8) 2 years ago

The only real solution is to go back to the Stone Age, when people lived "at one" with nature. Yeah, they didn't live LONG, but they had a low carbon footprint and by dying off at a young age, in a couple of hundred years maybe the planet would be rid of humans and the planet can be returned to the polar bears, darter snails, and other endangered species. Who knows, maybe they will evolve into a TRULY enlightened life form!

[-] 2 points by Zand (5) from Pflugerville, TX 3 years ago

Camille has probably never experrienced a quake in her life. The quake that hit japan was huge, quakes of this calibur are extremely rare. im talking once in a lifetime or rarrer rare. No one could have imagined a quake of that calibur would have hit. I recall there were safeties in place it just happened to be japan got a worse than worse case scenario.

[-] 2 points by jacki0486 (2) 3 years ago

1 word for you Zand: CHERNOBYL... true, it wasn't caused by an earthquake, but it was caused by something much, much more frequent: Human Error. According to wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_and_radiation_accidents), there have been 19 nuclear accidents in the last 40 years that resulted in deaths or $100M+ in property damages... 12 of which were in the US. Not to mention the dozen or so attacks on nuclear facilities over the last 20 years, again a quarter of which were executed by the US. How do you factor terrorist-esque intentional nuclear fallout in calculating the risks?

How quick you are to forget about the earthquake in Haiti - which was THE worst earthquake in the last hundred years when you look at the death tolls (http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/world/world_deaths.php). By comparison, the Japan earthquake ranks 19th in death tolls and only ranks 4th in terms of magnitude (http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/world/10_largest_world.php) - so much for your theory on "once in a lifetime", huh?

[-] 0 points by SassyKwatch (0) 3 years ago

LOLOL.

The list of 12 "accidents" (as you put it) in the U.S. is a joke right? Of those 12 "accidents", 9 of them were not "accidents", but such things as outages, shutdowns, redesigns, etc... One of those 12 was an accident (in 1966!!) that caused no casualties, radiation leak, or damage according to Wikipedia. Of the remaining two, only 3 Mile island (in 1979) was of any significance. The other one (1961... more than 50 years ago) was at a U.S. Army experimental reactor (note the "experimental"...) with three casualties. It should be noted that they were not killed by radiation, but rather injuries from physical trauma as a result of an explosion one of them mistakenly caused.

Get your facts right and disclose ALL of the information if you're going to cite them...

[-] 1 points by BorisB (1) from Denver, CO 2 years ago

But it DID happen didn't it.

[-] 1 points by ferretburger (11) 3 years ago

And yet it happened, and now the citizens of Japan have to pay for this "calculated risk". Perhaps the error was in the original calculation which underestimated the human and social costs of failure.

[-] 2 points by henry5400 (25) 3 years ago

Zand: Once in a lifetime means it'll happen at some point over the span of say, eighty years. And the probability is 50/50 that it will happen before forty years pass. The safeties were inadequate and ill-designed. "No one could have imagined" is a phrase Condi Rice was fond of, or do you fully realize that and are being totally sarcastic, in which case ignore this comment. But just in case you aren't, consider that many people can imagine the worse case scenario if Indian Point 30 miles north of NYC should happen to fail big time. Not a pretty picture.

[-] 1 points by DarkStar (43) 3 years ago

We almost had the worst-case scenario here in the US. Read the book "We Almost Lost Detroit", if you can find a copy.

[-] -1 points by Casper (-8) 3 years ago

I suppose that you've done the calculations, genius?

[-] 0 points by Slam1263 (196) 3 years ago

Tokyo 1926 was the last to hit that area.

[-] -1 points by Casper (-8) 3 years ago

Moron #3

[-] 1 points by diogenes (8) 3 years ago

Camille, how many people died from the earthquake in Japan because they Tsunami barriers were not high enough (not to mention the idiocy of permitting people to live in such a vulnerable area) in comparison to a Nuke plant that exceeded it's design capabilities?

Almost all the safety measures worked at Fukushima, EXCEPT the fact that no one foresaw the need to secure the very fuel tanks that were necessary for running the backup generators. As I understand it, had those fuel tanks stayed intact, it would have been a completely different story there. But 30,000 people died because of poor government policy in evaluating the threat of that Tsunami.. and only a couple of people have died from Fukushima.

[-] 0 points by alifeworthliving (0) 3 years ago

This is just a poorly thought out comment. There are no other viable forms of clean energy. It also seems like you have no alternatives. And no, putting money into research is not an alternative.

[-] 2 points by metroeco (11) 3 years ago

Efficiencies in heating, cooling, cooking would provide more negawatts than nuclear could provide megawatts. Domestic uranium supply is about 30 years at current burn. Adding 100 more nukes would burn through this fast, making us more reliant for uranium on such countries as South Africa than we already are. "Too cheap to meter" was always a lie.

[-] -1 points by Casper (-8) 3 years ago

Moron#4

[-] 1 points by acriticalthinker (8) 2 years ago

Why isn't putting money into research an alternative? I would bet that if the government spent $2 or $3 trillion on research it would not only create or save 50 million jobs, but some smart male or female bodied person could actually make wind and solar energy practical. It COULD work.....maybe.

[-] 1 points by ferretburger (11) 3 years ago

There are plenty of alternative energy sources, starting with hydroelectric. Norway, Canada, Brazil, New Zealand, Austria, Switzerland all get the majority of their electricity from hydro. Bear in mind that Norway and Canada are huge petroleum producers, but still choose to use hydro at home!

[-] -1 points by Revan343 (-1) 3 years ago

Hydroelectric power destroys large areas of animal habitat and messes with rivers.

And getting rid of it is one of the demands in this list.

[-] 2 points by ferretburger (11) 3 years ago

The damage is quite minor and easily planned for, compared with nuclear contamination. Getting rid of it is NOT one of the demands in the list. Where do you get that idea?

[-] 1 points by DarkStar (43) 3 years ago

Habitat can be FIXED - we can put back soil and plant things anew. Radiation poisoning is FOREVER.

[-] 1 points by Makhno (3) 3 years ago

This is just a poorly thought out comment. Of all energy technologies, nuclear is by far the least viable, least cost-effective, , most dangerous, least green and most expensive. The ROI is dismal, the ecological footprint is horrific.

[-] 2 points by diogenes (8) 3 years ago

Makho.. Think Thorium. And Pebble Bed..

Then think about having the government involved in the safe implementation of the newest nuclear technologies, rather than adding tremendous costs via environmental and regulatory hurdles.

[-] -1 points by Casper (-8) 3 years ago

Moron #5

[-] -2 points by Casper (-8) 3 years ago

Moron #2

[-] 1 points by lilacangel (1) 3 years ago

Casper, annoying troll is annoying...

[-] -1 points by fuckoffhippies (-1) 3 years ago

first off, fuck you ignorant hippie. secondly, we need to advance nuclear power into fusion and away from fission, which would create almost no waste and increase the power generated by insane amounts. thirdly, the growing consensus is from other ignorant hippies who have limited knowledge of political sciences NOT nuclear science, and have no idea how nuclear energy works now and could work in the future. I guess we should put an end to the Sun to right, because allowing it to be there would be irresponsible, considering it is after all just a giant nuclear fusion reactor. you should really learn about things for yourself and not be sucked into the vortex of stupid fucks who are trying the same protesting bullshit that has failed for years to change anything. FUCK OFF STUPID HIPPIES

[-] 1 points by DarkStar (43) 3 years ago

Fusion power is the Duke Nukem Forever of energy. It's been 'just around the corner' for decades, and probably will be for the next 100 years. Science just isn't managing to make it viable.

[-] -1 points by lolwut101 (35) 3 years ago

Wrong, moron.

[-] 1 points by marcfrombc (2) 3 years ago

You are talking about the text book notion of Free Trade, not what actually exist that is called Free Trade, which is not free at all. Current "free trade" policies are designed to protect capital, not markets and certainly not people.

[-] -1 points by BenKenon (-2) from Campton Hills, IL 3 years ago

@ navingrey: Free trade and free immigration are NOT the same. Immigration is an infusion of new genes, which is always a good thing. "Free Trade" is basically tariff-free imports. You were saying?

[-] 2 points by blackmaria1423 (4) 3 years ago

An infusion of new genes isn't a good thing if those people are uneducated and don't assimilate. One thing that Angela Merkel got right was to observe that multiculturalism has failed. Here in Germany, there is no "dial 1 for English". There are some companies that cater to English-speakers, but their customers pay a premium for not speaking German.

I've always thought that the gift of the Statue of Liberty was the greatest practical joke that France has played on any country. I don't think that they knew that Emma Lazarus's poem would be carved on the base.

[-] -1 points by BenKenon (-2) from Campton Hills, IL 3 years ago

@ navingrey: Free trade and free immigration are NOT the same. Immigration is an infusion of new genes, which is always a good thing. "Free Trade" is basically tariff-free imports. You were saying?

[-] 3 points by danlee (3) 3 years ago

anyone who thinks these demands aren't ludicrous is a moron and should expect to be treated that way. i mean, come on. $20/h minimum wage? free college education? trade tariffs AND open borders? guaranteed income regardless of employment? strike all debts off the book? WTF guys?!

while you're at it, why not throw in some other demands like "hang everyone worth over $1mil"? coz it doesn't sound as radical as "strike off all debt on the planet". don't you (or your parents, perhaps) have savings account? that's a form of debt. you gave your cash to a bank, bank owes you the money, so they pay interests. your parents' retirement savings, GONE. thanks to you, they'll have to work til they die. kids, don't you, your parents, or anyone who know own small business? chances are they can't afford to pay someone 20 bucks an hour to work at the cash register or flipping burgers. those jobs and businesses, GONE. who's going to pay for your free college education? your mama? why would anyone bother to get a job if they're guaranteed "living wage income", which, according to demand one, is $20/hr, which is $800 a week assuming 40 hour/week, which means $42k a year even if you're unemployed and did absolutely nothing.

think, damn you, THINK! use your tiny little brain! this list looks like something written by an insane unemployed homeless guy with $100k credit card debt, or by a wall st. banker spy. seriously, if you're not working to see OWS movement fail, take this article down. the longer this article stays up in this website, the more people you'll convince to think that you're not to be taken seriously.

[-] 2 points by tina333 (6) 3 years ago

danlee - Thank you for stating the obvious.... Its about time that someone did!

Wipe out all debt... does that mean we don't have to pay taxes?? Because then we would "owe" the governnment? That's like debt, right? So then who is paying for this universal health care system? And who is paying for that "living wage income" that no one is working for because they don't have to? And who is paying for the "free college education"? Of course if the demands get revised to include an amount of money that every one pays out of their wages, to help pay for this healthcare system and free college education and so on, (as well as those trillion dollar projects that are also listed) wouldn't that cut into our "living wage income"?? Will that minmum wage amount increase to compensate for that? Yeah.... the list of "demands" is ridiculous, and makes absolutely no sense. The author needs to take a class in common sense, move out of his parent's basement and get a good solid dose of, what I personally like to call, REALITY. This is a classic case of someone who forgot to THINK before he started writing...

Oh and for all those people who are demanding jobs... 1, I have seen at least 5 different "help wanted" signs just in my neighborhood alone, and have found many more via internet searches. 2, It's a lot easier to get a job when you aren't sitting on your butt in a protest that is going nowhere. 3, You need to quit complaining because you feel "entitled" to a better job than the ones that are available. Take what you can get now, and worry about getting a better job when the job market opens up more and the economy is better. 4, Quit bashing the businesses. They are the ones from whom you seek employment. 5, Quit bashing the rich. They are the ones who pay you.

And PS: Don’t look for a job on Wall Street. They all hate you.

[-] 1 points by acriticalthinker (8) 2 years ago

Why not add "give EVERYONE $1 million ----- no make that $1 BILLION. That would create a LOT of demand. Oops. It just hit me, if everyone is given $1 billion, who is going to make things and do things that people can but. Giving people $1 billion each is totally doable, but there may be a problem with getting stuff to buy with it.

[-] 3 points by DanielGosser (4) 3 years ago

Proposed solutions to our nation's problems:

  1. ABOLISH FRACTIONAL RESERVE BANKING This would include the institution known as the Federal Reserve. Our government must then create a congressional banking committee, whose members will be appointed and approved by all three branches of government every four years, that will print Debt-Free U.S. Banking Notes backed by our precious metals reserve and U.S. Credit. This will be owned entirely by the United States Government and it will be illegal for this institution to accept interest laden capital loans from any individual or entity, whether foreign or domestic. It will also be illegal for this institution to lend interest laden capital to any individual or entity, whether foreign or domestic. It will be illegal for any domestic entity or individual to lend interest laden capital to any individual or entity, whether foreign or domestic, and conversely, it will be illegal for any domestic entity or individual to accept interest laden capital from any individual or entity, whether foreign or domestic.

  2. END THE MILITARY CAMPAIGN IN IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN, AND LIBYA This does not mean setting a timetable for 2035. This means pulling all of our troops out of these countries today. This will include selling the Iraq embassy for upwards of 1.5 billion USD.

  3. ABOLISH GOVERNMENT DEFICITS It will be illegal for government spending to exceed government receipts. This means that the federal government as well as state governments cannot, under any circumstances, incur a deficit.

  4. ABOLISH CONFLICT OF INTEREST CAMPAIGN DONATIONS It will be illegal for any corporation, political action committee, lobby group, or any non-governmental organization, whether foreign or domestic, to provide capital of any kind to any politician or government employee. It will be illegal for any politician or government employee to own stock, in any business, of any kind, whether foreign or domestic. It will be illegal for any politician or government employee to accept capital from any foreign entity or individual. These terms will also apply to any individual campaigning for any kind of government office, whether state or federal.

In short, political whores are not allowed in the United States of America. You are a servant not an oligarch.

Yours, Daniel Gosser

[-] 3 points by rmmo (262) 3 years ago

These are not real demands. This is just some outside person commenting and probably a right wing attempt to try to minimize the movement.

[-] 1 points by DarkStar (43) 3 years ago

I wouldn't be surprised if Casper the Clueless submitted that list. It should have been posted as an example of what NOT to say from the very start.

[-] 2 points by temetnosce (2) from Brooklyn, NY 3 years ago

DEMAND FOURTEEN :troop WITHDRAWAL from afghanistan ,iraq , lybia ,somalia , ivory coast etcetc

[-] 2 points by eskosrage (8) 3 years ago

My name is Steven Gonzales, and i live in VA. I say strike all demands and vote for this one simple amendment.

SEPERATION OF CORPORATION AND STATE.

This simple departure will cover the majority of your demands.

Think about how the church at one time dominated governments. And think, for a moment, about how the separation of CHURCH AND STATE alleviated a great deal of corruption. This one demand is what you seek . this one simple demand is the type that can unify the movement, and could actually have a chance at success.

my resolve to the separation would be this. Corporations would be forced to put money into the election fund, which would then be evenly distributed to ALL recognized political parties. NO MORE VOTING ON THE PEOPLE THE CORPORATIONS PICKED. LET AMERICANS VOTE. LET AMERICANS CAST THEIR VOICE.

[-] 2 points by eskosrage (8) 3 years ago

The elimination of direct corporate involvement in our government will clear the mud from the water, and allow our governemnt to once agian work fro the people, and not the other way around. This one amendment would allow our governemnt to focus on the real issues. politicians will no longer have to worry about upsetting their sponsors. they will be able to focus on the truth.

[-] 2 points by gavinwsewell (4) 3 years ago

How many points do you think make up lazer-like focus? I'm thinking between three and nine, easy to remember, easy to make into slogans...

[-] 2 points by julespeg (5) 3 years ago

You are so right! Focus the message! Make it a sound bite! Liberals suck at this, but we need to change. Otherwise this looks like a freak show.

[-] 3 points by HankWaters (5) 3 years ago

Too late. It already look like a freak show.

[-] 2 points by Justaguy (4) 3 years ago

It is only too late when the lights are out, I am sure you are not a defeatist, but do not give up. This is the process of change, it takes the extreme action to inspire others. The arab spring was started by a single frustrated individual that inspired a movement. A couple hundred years ago a few frustrated individuals threw some tea into the harbor and look where that got us.

[-] 2 points by talkingwolf (8) 3 years ago

Look out, they'll start calling us all tea-baggers. ;)

[-] 0 points by Casper (-8) 3 years ago

Not on your best day. You will never rise to their level, Moron #10.

[-] 0 points by crockett911 (6) 3 years ago

Talkingwolf; You are just not associated to the tea party!!!

[-] 0 points by Casper (-8) 3 years ago

Wrong Moron #9, it takes intelligence to inspire others. Something your childish 'movement' sorely lacks. Too bad Garcia croaked and left you good-for-nothings no place to 'act the hobo'.

[-] 2 points by EndGlobalistGovernment (6) from Boston, MA 3 years ago

"Today's political economy resembles some form of fascism (ie the collusion of big government with big business) more than the free-enterprise system, and of the businesses with a hand in colluding with the state in advancement of corporatism," from http://mises.org/daily/5746/Occupy-Wall-Street-A-Story-without-Heroes

I think you young people don't understand that we are in the middle of Republican-Democrat One Party Rope a Dope. They wear us out arguing with each other while these statists' have created 1. the banking crisis (with repeal of Glas Steagal Act) 2. created the War on Terror to promote war machine and tyranny 3. created a tyrannical government a la the Patriot Act, the TSA (T&A) and the cancer causing, naked body scanners, assassination of US Citizens without due process 4. the Dodd Frank bill that is at the root cause of the debit card Fee increase 5. $15 trillion in debt and counting (all paper generated via the Federal Government's implementation of the fed) 6. The War Powers Act that allows the President the Power to Declare War w/o congressional consent....oh yeah for 90 days... we can spell Libya and the no consent for that war 7. New Health Care law in which the government has access to ALL of your private health-care information

My suggestion is that we tell the country that government politicians do NOT create jobs that manufacturing and industry does... that you want policies to bring jobs back to the USA.

Tell them you want USA energy independence (including Natural Gas which we have lots of and is much much cleaner, in addition to Solar, (i don't like wind farms because of the bird kill though))

That you want a balanced budget and that you don't want to pay the rest of your lives for government waste...

That the kids and Grandkids of all those in Congress who appropriate funds for the so-called War on Terror, that their kids must be on the front line OR that they have to resign from Congress...

That Congress can't get special retirement plans and healthcare that citizens do NOT get

Tell them to end the T&A, its illegal search and seizure and the cancer-causing, naked body scanners

Tell them that we are tired of WalMart importing all the shit from China....when Americans could be making the stuff..

[-] 4 points by johnk22 (7) 3 years ago

or you could just stop buying stuff from walmart

[-] 2 points by DonJ (16) 3 years ago

We want our jobs back.

[-] 1 points by beachcruzer (3) from Poway, CA 3 years ago

you're not smart enough to have a job.

[-] 2 points by vats (107) 3 years ago

then u are not part of this movemement

[-] 1 points by DarkStar (43) 3 years ago

Which will do exactly nothing. Wal-Mart caters to the trash class, who outnumber and outbreed people like you and I.

[-] 1 points by ferretburger (11) 3 years ago

The Tea Party movement and the Occupy Wall Street movement are really stemming from the same root problem -- corruption of the democratic process by big financial interests. Our politicians represent Corporations/Wall Street instead of the people who elected them. And what's worse they sincerely believe that these are equivalent because the modern narrative is that "corporations make jobs", "wall street fuels the market" so by serving these masters they are helping the common man.

But in both the Tea and the 99% movements what is apparent is a rejection of this notion that our hard earned dollars should be taken from us by force in the form of taxes and then handed over (no strings attached) to wall street financiers.

The difference in viewpoints is that the demographically more senior Tea Partiers want to keep what they have accumulated, whereas the younger Occupy Wall Street-ers want their fair crack at the American dream without having to bear the burden of a failed financial sector that they weren't even around to create. (and which one could argue was fueled by the baby boomers' greed). They are essentially asking that those who benefitted most from the events leading up to the crisis be forced to bear most of the burden of its aftermath in order to "level the paying field".

So the question is how to come together and join forces.

I think that the two groups will never agree 100% on the details because each has different vested self-interests due to the different demographic bases. However, both can agree that democracy in America is broken due to money. I think the single greatest accomplishment that they could have if they joined forces would be MASSIVE CAMPAIGN FINANCE AND LOBBYING REFORM . Restore democracy to the people, and then let them vote on the remaining differences as our founders intended.

[-] 2 points by c4rri3 (2) 3 years ago

The 99% includes the Tea Party

[-] 1 points by DarkStar (43) 3 years ago

The original Tea Party, you mean. I have no problem with them.

[-] 1 points by MikeA (17) 3 years ago

I couldn't agree more ferretburger on the campaign finance idea. And it should be the primary demand of the ows movement. The campaigns should be fully publicly financed on all levels. Lists like Lloyds are devisive, but who wouldn't agree on a truly representative govt?

[-] 1 points by dc23 (1) 3 years ago

You sound like someone with the TEA Party. Thank you for your sound advise. These people making these demands are probably still living in their mom's basement. They are only following the call of the greatest community organizer ever, obama.

[-] 1 points by MattressAnswerMan (1) 3 years ago

Before you ask the government not to create jobs, stop and think. Let take two of the capitalists favorite mules to kick,Railroad and the Post Office. The post Office is simple if they would quit stealing its income it would be solvent and they forget to tell us about the services the private sector doesn't want,like home mail delivery. The Railroads are a little more complicated. They were in the private sector until these companies figured out that they could make more money selling off the land(that they never paid for in the first place). Penn Central is still in business but now is a real estate company. Now with fuel rising and no real decline seen in the near future Railroads could be profitable again and if that doesn't work these companies will again sell off their unpaid for real estate. Now if you allow these to remain in the public sector(government) we will be able to use they're services without disruption and also as in the case of the Post Office give money back so we don't have to tax for those revenues. What we need to do is not give away the profitable section of these businesses and then blame the government for running a loosing operation

[-] 3 points by Esposito (173) 3 years ago

Railroad freight companies do very, very well. It's Amtrak. No one wants to ride the railroads anymore. Lionel doesn't even make HO scale anymore. You have to go to O which are more expensive and who has the room for that?

[-] 0 points by ferretburger (11) 3 years ago

Yet in Canada, Japan, Europe and China the railroads are usually the FIRST choice for travel. This is because they are comfortable, FAST, on time and convenient (with stations downtown). Somehow Amtrak has taken the golden goose and tried to make lemonade (to mix metaphors).

[-] 3 points by Esposito (173) 3 years ago

I rode the trains in Europe and it was great. Very comfortable and scenic. I once took Amtrak thinking I would see a bit of America, first class accommodations and all, it was the worst experience of my life and all I got to see were fences. Nobody gave a crap about the passengers and for a trip from LA to NY took 5 days!

[-] 2 points by henry5400 (25) 3 years ago

The USPS' problem in part is because they were forced to increase their pension fund balance on a fast track basis. Their pension fund needed to be increased but the fast tracking has created severe pressure on their cash flow.

[-] -1 points by Casper (-8) 3 years ago

The government HAS never, and WILL never 'create' a job, as you say. I don't know where you studied economics, but you could sue for incompetence. You are a complete economic illiterate. Exactly like your idol: BHO. You have an infantile view of the world and how it works.

[-] 1 points by FuManchu (619) 3 years ago

What about the jobs to build roads, fire services, army etc? It is probably not good to have the government jobs be the biggest % of GDP. There are some jobs created by essential services, however, it should not be the primary source of jobs. As I write this, I ask myself why not?

[-] 1 points by ferretburger (11) 3 years ago

Wrong. The government creates many jobs. In fact it is the nations top employer.

You don't believe that using your tax dollars to accomplish work like building highways, defending the national borders, or sending satellites into space is real work. But you believe shuffling money around by traders from one stock to another is actual work.

I feel sorry for you.

[-] 0 points by c4rri3 (2) 3 years ago

Do some research on natural gas. It's not a better option at all. http://www.propublica.org/article/natural-gas-politics-526

[-] -1 points by Casper (-8) 3 years ago

Moron #7

[-] 3 points by nasnasnas (3) 3 years ago

Stop calling people morons because chances are that they're smarter than you.

[-] 0 points by MidasRex (7) 3 years ago

lol

[-] 2 points by Jumpstart (2) 3 years ago

More than focus these demands need to be revised, as stated by some below, a few are in conflict with each other. Specific demands would be hugely beneficial to the movement but they need to be educated well formulated. Out of the 99% there should be experts from many fields involved such as political, financial, social services, etc. that could discuss the issue and form solutions. The trouble is formulating the vast ideas and opinions present into various platforms that can formulate a single platform/set of demands. The other trouble is understanding that the goal should be deciphering the good of "the people" rather than just "you". That is the purest form of democracy. Some of these demands might not go along with that.

[-] 1 points by liberalcynic1 (3) from Canberra, ACT 3 years ago

I do political science - if you want popular and electable Here's my critique: http://infrequentrant.blogspot.com/2011/10/occupy-wall-street-proposed-demands.html

[-] 0 points by Casper (-8) 3 years ago

This is a link to 'The Idiot Papers'. The Unabomber Manifesto made more sense. Try studying a real science sometime and see how well your hairbrained ideas fly in that community.

[-] 1 points by beachcruzer (3) from Poway, CA 3 years ago

Your whole movement needs to be scrapped. Why not protest the fact that your cause is = to communism. and if you haven't heard yet, Communism is what's going on in North Korea... yeah its lame.

[-] 2 points by marxistscum (18) 3 years ago

Actually North Korea is a hereditary dictatorship, their latest Constitution (2009) rejects the founding ideology of Communism. So your comment needs to be scrapped.

[-] 2 points by ferretburger (11) 3 years ago

Please. You may argue that true Marxism hasn't been tried yet. But the truth is that is has been tried repeatedly, and due to the fact that it is fundamentally impossible to implement correctly, it has failed repeatedly.

Socialism, on the other hand, works and does so without killing incentive.

[-] 0 points by Casper (-8) 3 years ago

Moron #9. (#1 in our hearts, though!) The rest of this post is for the normal people. This is the ignorance we must face and defeat if this country is to remain great and survive. Range time and good ammo supply, my friends!

[-] 0 points by Casper (-8) 3 years ago

Moron #8. Yea, they rejected the founding principles of communism for some brutally WORSE ones of their own. Are you friggin for real? Wake up, dummy!

[-] 0 points by Casper (-8) 3 years ago

First of all, genius, we do NOT live in a democracy, especially the 'purest form', as you put it. Secondly, your 'proposal(s) describe all human activity as it occurs naturally- every day as all humans live their lives. How old are you? 10?

[-] 2 points by blackmaria1423 (4) 3 years ago

How about a single (okay, two-part) demand: Stop the looting. Start prosecuting.

It gets wall street where they live, under the prospect of doing the perp walk down to the federal courts. Even Bernie madoff is in a medium-security federal penetentialry in Butler, NC.

we would do so much better were existing laws enforced.

[-] 0 points by Casper (-8) 3 years ago

Would you please give us all an example of any law that has been broken, other than by the vagrant 'protesters'? I'll hold off making you Moron #15 pending an intelligent response.

[-] 1 points by ferretburger (11) 3 years ago

There is a sound bite "We are the 99%". If you try to form a movement around a sound bite, all you will have is a really good sound bite. A solid platform of objectives is absolutely necessary. Ron Paul's popularity on the Right is because people are tired of the FOX NEWS sound bite culture.

[-] 0 points by Casper (-8) 3 years ago

Blah, blah, blah. Should be gerbilburger.

[-] 1 points by TLydon007 (1278) 3 years ago

Actually we don't so much suck at making sound bites. We just suck at getting behind sound bites because we're cynical.

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 3 years ago

Why do we need sound bites?

[-] 0 points by Casper (-8) 3 years ago

You are all too uninformed and/or unintelligent to be cynical yet.

[-] 0 points by beachcruzer (3) from Poway, CA 3 years ago

See the movie "forest Gump" and watch the part where the hippies beat up their girlfriends and say "bull shit " a lot. That is how Americans view this movement. Do you guys beat your girlfriends? Work like Steve Jobs and you may get somewhere in life. Otherwise they will throw you in the category with the forest gump vietnam protesters..IE Bozo the clowns

[-] -1 points by Makhno (3) 3 years ago

Oh, so Forrest Gump was a documentary?

What a moron.

[-] 0 points by Casper (-8) 3 years ago

YEA! You just made Moron #14

[-] 0 points by Aerger (19) 3 years ago

That's right, bumper sticker sound bites. The only way liberals can state their side of the issue without sounding like a lunatic. Toe the Party line and do not use more than one sentence to articulate your point.

[-] -2 points by AlexPowers (1) 3 years ago

You liberals suck at this because your ideas are illogical and economically silly. This is not an editing or lack of focus issue.

[-] 2 points by NoneyaBiznazz (84) from Findlay, OH 3 years ago

The OWS movement isn't about liberal vs conservative. Its about realizing that the old R vs D game is just something we're being distracted with while our wallet is stolen. Calling the OWS crowd a bunch of "Liberals" just lets us all know that you identify yourself as a "conservative".

Now that introductions are out of the way, please realize that OWS is neither a Democrat or Republican movement. If you can get that fact through your thick skull, I think you may be able to have a decent conversation here.

[-] 0 points by Casper (-8) 3 years ago

Do you personally produce a good or service that anyone would pay you for? THAT is the 'game' as you put it. Start using your brain.

[-] 2 points by NoneyaBiznazz (84) from Findlay, OH 3 years ago

Yes, I do produce a service. I'm a PC repair man. Self-taught. I use my brain constantly. Its my job.

As far as defining the "game", how about this for a definition:

The means by which the American people are constantly distracted by the back and forth of partisan politics while our rights and our money are slowly eaten away. Its a spectator sport. Who's scandal is it this week? Its all just designed to keep us from noticing that everything we have is being taken away, piece by piece, while we choose sides as to which party is going to lie to us next. Thats the game.

Now you start using YOUR brain.

[-] 1 points by DarkStar (43) 3 years ago

He'd have to HAVE a brain in the first place.

[-] 2 points by rmmo (262) 3 years ago

You are right about the list, but not about the problem. See my post at the top explaining why. I'd like to hear your opinion.

[-] 1 points by beachcruzer (3) from Poway, CA 3 years ago

I will help with the problem.. You guys are like animals caged up at the Zoo. You haven't figured out that the who zoo wasn't designed for your comfort. Most of you if you were animals in a Zoo wouldn't even be self aware.

That is the Truth. You are all childish fools w/out any education. Especially History.

[-] 1 points by talkingwolf (8) 3 years ago

Dear friends: this is an example of a troll. I am not a moderator of this site and do not represent anyone in charge. That said, I highly recommend not engaging and moving on.

[-] 1 points by Casper (-8) 3 years ago

You make no sense. As usual, I'm sure. Avoid the light of truth like a cockroach.

[-] 1 points by beachcruzer (3) from Poway, CA 3 years ago

Take care of yourselves. It is the only way to have pure freedom.

[-] 0 points by Jana66 (6) 3 years ago

Schools don't teach history anymore.

[-] 1 points by crockett911 (6) 3 years ago

Not only don't they teach history but they don't teach how you make it in the real world. And no I am not a troll just don't agree on how our educational system fills your brain with liberal mush.

[-] 1 points by AaronStone (5) 3 years ago

The author here does not speak for all liberals. Besides I'm not sure what it means to be liberal/conservative anymore. Reagan was conservative and was in power when the republican party was still partially respected but look what they've turned into now. I only vote left because of the warmongering on right. I no longer see a line between conservative/liberal. It has become blurred.

[-] 2 points by daffyff (104) from Redwood City, CA 3 years ago

Totally agree. I would like to see a public denouncement of any reference to this being a "left wing tea-party." Left vs right, conservative vs. liberal is dividing language, and i am under the impression that this movement transcends such ideas in that it represents the 99%.

I think the demands should be focused on lobbying and campaign contributions to those that are supposed to represent us, and on certain inequities that corporations have imposed on us through monopolies that are too big to fail. Especially the cell phone companies

[-] 3 points by CarryTheGripsUpToTheAttic (133) 3 years ago

The problem with demands is given in number 1 below. Congressmen will love to water down this movement in committees and processes.

Many people have expressed their opinion about the way forward in this movement.

There are 3 common flaws in the proposals 1)"demands" have to be approved within the existing political structure, 2)physical theft or violence would require interference from the government, 3)current political entities would absorb this movement, when the feeling in the air is that something absolutely new is required.

Here is my proposal: create a new national capitol. Only that move will be seen as satisfying when we look back on these events in the decades to come.

But how can this small movement break free from the current oligarchy that controls us? We are doctors, lawyers, and farmers just the same as our founding fathers. Yet, the principles they created have been distorted to serve the oligarchy. These principles should be renewed.

In creating a new and better seat of government, we have the most powerful tool ever created - the internet.

I suggest Kansas City, Kansas as a location for this new seat of government. A new and faster internet is being created there. An open and more benign canvas exists at this site, without the stifling history and "baggage" found on either coast.

We don't need to hate "them", we'll just focus on creating a better "us". The energy to do this, exists right now in New York.

CarryTheGrips

[-] 0 points by Casper (-8) 3 years ago

You are a seditious freak. The ONLY resemblance to any kind of movement is to a bowel movement. Could you even recite the 'Pledge of Allegiance'? Let alone, understand its meaning?

[-] 2 points by talkingwolf (8) 3 years ago

Here here!

[-] 0 points by Casper (-8) 3 years ago

Holy Cow! Moron #12. This is what 'passes' for critical thinking.

[-] -2 points by beachcruzer (3) from Poway, CA 3 years ago

99%..... Try .000099%

Come one guys.. its really time to go back home to mom and dad's house. They are the ones paying your bills.

[-] 4 points by Jana66 (6) 3 years ago

Taxpayers are paying their bills too.

[-] 2 points by alwayzabull (228) 3 years ago

Are you a drone? Can you not see what is happening in this country? Go back to your corporate zombie box.

[-] 0 points by Casper (-8) 3 years ago

Congratulations! You are Moron #13.

[-] 2 points by alwayzabull (228) 3 years ago

You are a pompous cheerleader for everything that's gone wrong with America.

[-] 1 points by talkingwolf (8) 3 years ago

Can't, sorry. My Mom and Dad are abusive and don't speak to me. I'm the only one paying my bills, and I'm failing at it because I haven't had any opportunities to succeed. I am one of the 99%.

[-] 2 points by crockett911 (6) 3 years ago

Talkingwolf; If you can't succeed than you need other ideas or be more creative in your thinking. America is the land of opportunity and I am an example of it. You can start a business and either make a go of it or let it go under it's your choice.

[-] 1 points by Casper (-8) 3 years ago

Did you ever think that you are failing because of YOU? No, probably not.

[-] 0 points by mayasurface (17) from Springfield, MO 3 years ago

I am a single mother (through divorce..not getting knocked up), work 50 hours a week, have 3 years of college under my belt (most of which I paid for and have loans for the rest), get absolutely NO government assistance at all, and love every second of my life...other than running into close-minded, angry bigots like you. How about, since I have a job, you get an education in what is really going on in this country?

[-] -1 points by mypenisis13incheslong (-1) from Seattle, WA 3 years ago

See, this is why I hate conservatives. They are extremely hostile to anyone who doesn't agree with them, and they make wild assumptions that all liberals don't work and live on welfare. If you disagree with someone, don't be a fucking dick about it.

[-] 3 points by owstag (508) 3 years ago

I'm not a conservative or a liberal or a centrist (I detest ideologically driven politics), but I must say, this post of yours is extremely hypocritical. So, YOU "hate conservatives" because THEY are extremely hostile to anyone who doesn't agree with them? You go on to say "don't be a fucking dick". Wow. This is the most blatant example of the psychological phenomenon of projection since Hitler complained that Winston Churchill was "running around Europe setting things on fire". When you point a finger at someone else you point three back at yourself. LOL!

[-] 1 points by daffyff (104) from Redwood City, CA 3 years ago

I would consider myself on the conservative end of the political spectrum, but I believe this movement captures my general dissatisfaction with our system. I feel unheard because I can't afford to grease any politician's palms. I just want an end to blatant corporate corruption in MY representative government.

[-] 2 points by mayasurface (17) from Springfield, MO 3 years ago

I hope you find a way to express you distaste with the current money-run system. If you don't like protesting, there are many other things you can do to support this movement in any way you would like. Petitions, educating the public about the facts, fundraising for education, volunteering in the name of the 99% whose chances at the american dream are dwindling to nothing... Thank you for your very just and respectful post!

[-] 0 points by Casper (-8) 3 years ago

What are you? 13 years old? I'd make you Moron #14, but I don't like picking on children.

[-] 1 points by ScotDavids (1) 3 years ago

Thank you for saying this -- I have believed the same for a long time now. Let's not pigeon-hole ourselves behind one simplistic, myopic stereotype of outdated dogma. The complexity of the times require complexity in responses. All of us, repubs, dems, tea-partyers, are AMERICANS, with the same dreams and hopes for our country. Rigorous debate can be followed by acts of great solidarity (aka, sisterhood and brotherhood).

[-] 1 points by admin (15) 3 years ago

"All of us, repubs, dems, tea-partyers, are AMERICANS, with the same dreams and hopes for our country."

Clearly these groups do not have the same dreams and hopes for our country.

"Rigorous debate can be followed by acts of great solidarity..."

Assuming the debate concludes with agreement, which I have no reason thus far to believe would happen.

[-] 0 points by Casper (-8) 3 years ago

Nonsense! Liberal/Socialist/Progressives have a perverted sense of this great country and its founding. Did you not listen to their leader BHO when he vowed to "fundamentally change" it? They are the enemy of this country, and make NO mistake about it!

[-] 1 points by eskosrage (8) 3 years ago

The left and the right are just illussions. They both work for the richest people not jsut in America, but the world. explain to me how two parties can possibly represent this melting pot expesially when the melting is only begining.

[-] 1 points by Dabegga (3) 3 years ago

Then vote for Ron Paul. He's against the wars and will bring all the troops home. K Thanks!

[-] 1 points by Makhno (3) 3 years ago

Ron Paul can say anything he wants, he knows he'll never get elected.

[-] 2 points by WLW (3) 3 years ago

Well! That may be true if everyone thought like you do. Be positive and have faith that the system is still actually working to where we can get the genuine article in the oval office.

[-] 1 points by DarkStar (43) 3 years ago

As opposed to your golden boy Obummer, who got elected and proceeded to do two things: jack and squat? Yeah, such an improvement there.

[-] 0 points by Casper (-8) 3 years ago

One-Note-Charleys, you simple minded RP supporters.

[-] 1 points by DonJ (16) 3 years ago

Ron Paul is a Republican conservative and his platform starts with, "bring the troops home and stop these illegal wars. Quit reading Time, they tell you liberal lies.

[-] 2 points by Dabegga (3) 3 years ago

agreed

[-] 0 points by Casper (-8) 3 years ago

Moron #11

[-] -1 points by Occupythis (3) 3 years ago

Let me spell it out for you because you probably skipped class to go to some protest when they were going over Liberalism vs. Conservatism. Liberals believe that big government (and spending money we don't have) is the answer to our problems both socially and economically. Conservatives believe in smaller government and more personal responsibility. It really is just about as simple as that. As for the war mongering, you must've missed that as well. If you look at the Iraq war, all the libs were saying the same thing Bush said. Saddam must be stopped. Hillary Clinton, Harry Reid, John Kerry... they were all in agreement until it became politically en vogue to run Bush under the bus. Talk about hypocrites! You should wake up and smell the coffee.

[-] 3 points by y2kproblem (6) from Portland, OR 3 years ago

Why are you trying so fiercely to categorize this movement at all? There are many ways to engage in democratic participation outside of the current political system. You are a witness and you are welcome.

[-] 0 points by Casper (-8) 3 years ago

Why are you afraid to be catagorized? Is it that it will be easier to see all of you morons for what you truly are? Well, morons!

[-] 2 points by themovement (2) from Montgomery, IL 3 years ago

Whoever said that this movement has anything to do with politics? It has absolutely nothing to do with left, right, conservative or liberals. This is about people who are fed up with a system that has subjugated the public for far too long. I'm sick of it. Corporate greed caused a major financial crisis and no one was held accountable on Wall St. In fact, they were bailed out!! This movement is about taking our country back from the corporations that have stolen the American dream from the 99%.

[-] 1 points by Casper (-8) 3 years ago

Democrats (namely C. Dodd and B. Frank, to name 2) caused the crisis by extorting banks to make bad loans to unqualified recipients. Learn history before you make a bigger fool of yourself.

[-] 1 points by Occupythis (3) 3 years ago

Of course this has to do with politics. It would naive to think otherwise. Corporate greed did not cause the financial crisis. This is why this movement is wrongheaded. Wall St.is vilified because they take advantage of the fact that they have access to our politicians in Washington. We can agree that that is a big problem. Problem I have with the movement is you are going after the wrong people. THe marches should be on Washington, not Wall St. This financial crisis was caused by congressional actions that took place over the last 30 years or so, going back to the 70s. The congress mandated that Fannie and Freddie provide low interest loans to people regardless of their credit ratings or ability to repay those loans. No doc financing was routine and that can only happen for so long before those bad loans defaulted. Congressional manipulation of the housing market caused the bubble in the first place. Of course we need to regulate business to a degree, but punitive measures placed on the very sector of the population you are counting on for jobs is counter productive. I think the solution is to repudiate 2500 page bills that get passed with no one reading them before we vilify the sector of the economy we need the most (the private sector).

[-] 1 points by daffyff (104) from Redwood City, CA 3 years ago

Of course it's a political movement, but not in the traditional two party sense that america is used to: i.e. conservative vs. liberal. This movement is about not being heard by our representative government which apparently is more beholden to the corporations that feed them.

I don't believe anyone here is trying to destroy businesses from making profits.

[-] -1 points by Casper (-8) 3 years ago

Wrong! The left HATES profit.

[-] 2 points by mayasurface (17) from Springfield, MO 3 years ago

I am the left and I have zero problem with profit. However, I do have a problem with profit at the cost of human life. Cheaper ingredients in our products and ways to make said products is leading to cancer, child diabetes, jobs being shipped overseas, and starvation worldwide. There is a huge difference between profit and greed, and valuing your house, car, and private jet over other human beings is what I find revolting. It is sad that you are letting your anger run everything you are, and cut you off from caring about your fellow citizens. Jesus would not have wanted it this way and I try with everything I am to live in a just way. I work, raise my son, and care deeply for everyone. I think perhaps you should ask yourself why you feel the need to go online and spread hateful statements. I don't agree with this one individual's demands at all yet we must separate business from government. The government should be run like a business, not BY businesses. It will only work if government is run for the people. Take care Casper, and I do hope you respond to this since you haven't responded much to other replies...

[-] 0 points by Jana66 (6) 3 years ago

So very true.

[-] 0 points by beachcruzer (3) from Poway, CA 3 years ago

you need a flashy front man like Chastity Bono. He/She will match your confused ideologies.

[-] 0 points by Mezmerize503 (0) 3 years ago

i agree!

[-] 2 points by LloydJHart (190) from Vineyard Haven, MA 3 years ago

If you want public support to continue to grow we had better shape a living wage platform that the public can sink their teeth in. If generalized statements continue to be the organizing principal of this action then the public won't continue to lend their trust. They have been burned so many times trusting the campaign rhetoric of the democratic party that they will be very careful to research this actions real platform.

[-] 2 points by nosocialism (7) 3 years ago

Here's a dissecting the OWS List of Demands (No doubt this movement was triggered and is funded by the Global elite - http://www.infowars.com/dissecting-the-ows-list-of-demands/

[-] 0 points by LloydJHart (190) from Vineyard Haven, MA 3 years ago

Paranoid schizophrenia dosen't look good on you.

[-] 2 points by HankWaters (5) 3 years ago

The majority of support you have is young kids who haven't a clue about what they're even there for and that list of demands only shows that this is nothing but a liberals wet dream of utopia.

KEEP UP THE FIGHT COMRADES!!

[-] 1 points by mattscud55 (1) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

I agree. I'd like to see how they plan to pay for all of these "free" services from the government. Also, if everyone had a college education, a college degree's value would plummet, causing a higher demand for Masters, PhD's, etc. Such a myopic list of demands.

I'd like to add a few more:

Make the Middle East stop fighting.

Everyone gets a helicopter that runs on children's laughter.

Gummy bears are free.

Nobody judges anyone for having dumb ideas or lists of demands. (cough)

[-] 1 points by bryan6989 (1) 3 years ago

So you're saying that not everyone deserves a college education if they want it?

I guess only the ones who can afford 50k a year should be educated. I understand now. sorry.

[-] 2 points by johnk22 (7) 3 years ago

yes - exactly! not everyone deserves a college education just because they want it. that is the smartest statement i've seen on this page! where in the world did you learn that we DESERVE things just because we want them? that is the essence of liberal nonsense

[-] 1 points by dreadsPoverty (93) from Mankato, MN 3 years ago

If knowledge is power, then higher education would be used by others to oppress those who simply could not afford it; they will not be free in the sense that "all men are created equal." There would not be equal opportunity for all.

The highly educated have often been an oppressor because they know the system and how to manipulate it.

I understand that not everyone is equal, and I cannot foresee the ability to pay everyone's tuition. Tuition and fees are largely dependent on the cost of living and the professors salaries.

This should not be a demand.

[-] 2 points by admin (15) 3 years ago

"The highly educated have often been an oppressor because they know the system and how to manipulate it..."

Take formal education out of the equation and you still have the same problem: someone who is born smarter or healthier will always be in a position to oppress others. Burn all the books and burn all the money, but this inequality will never change.

[-] 2 points by jbshaffe243 (2) 3 years ago

Not to mention the fact that college educated citizens will get jobs with better wages, and will in turn pay back more in federal income tax. It's an investment, not a handout.

[-] 0 points by admin (15) 3 years ago

Why would a student even bother graduating if college were free?

[-] 0 points by Casper (-8) 3 years ago

Learning is free.

[-] 1 points by DarkStar (43) 3 years ago

So why don't you ever learn anything?

[-] 1 points by IHeartFreeLunches (4) 3 years ago

hahaha.. i personally love the helicopter idea. I think we should push for government funding on that.

[-] 1 points by ObombaClown (3) 3 years ago

hhahahahahahahahahahaha..I demand a new saddle for my Unicorn

[-] 0 points by Kaydreein (13) 3 years ago

Wait. What? Did you honestly just make an argument that we need people to be stupid so that the marginally smart can look smarter?

[-] 0 points by Jessie (4) 3 years ago

I Demand a Lifetime supply of Chocolate!

I Demand the whole world be my personal slave – oh right, they’ve already got that in there.

My bad, Peace Out!

[-] 0 points by merkinfuzz (3) 3 years ago

everyone should have their own Fender Stratocaster.......free of charge

[-] 2 points by Esposito (173) 3 years ago

Hey! What am I gonna do with an electric guitar if I don't have an amp too!

FREE AMPS FOR EVERYONE!

[-] 2 points by dick (26) 3 years ago

"They have been burned so many times..."

Agreed. As such, I'd like to see the motivations behind each demand spelled out.

[-] 1 points by Templewind (13) 3 years ago

Have you heard what Limbaugh is saying about your list? You are the laughing stock of much of America. "Living wage, regardless of employment"..... Why would anyone work.....or go to school for that matter? I can't believe you have thought some of these demands through.

[-] 2 points by expatcanuck (6) 3 years ago

I am addressing you templewind since you seem like one of the only sane people on this thread.I heard this list today on Michael Medved. I had to log in to see if it was a gag or for real. I'm still not sure. If you want to take on the Fed, that issues money (interest free) to all the big banks and causes a debasement of the currency, which makes everyone poorer and enriches a few bank executives, simply support Ron Paul. I have been fighting this fight in a rational way for years. All this utopian nonsense is making this movement a laughingstock as you rightly point out. Maybe this is simply an asylum for people who were dropped on their heads as babies. Am I wrong?

[-] 2 points by Makhno (3) 3 years ago

It's time to start thinking utopian. Demanding less isn't working. AAnd if you think Ron Paul is any different than the Republicrats, I've got some swamp land in Florida you might be interested in.

[-] 0 points by admin (15) 3 years ago

Do you believe that a utopia is possible but that someone else is keeping it from you? Do you understand how easy it is to manipulate someone who believes that?

[-] 2 points by AN0NYM0US (640) 3 years ago

Twas one person my good sir, not the entire group.

[-] 1 points by phb (6) 3 years ago

It does sound like a crazy idea, I agree, but I actually think it would iron out in time. I mean, have you tried sitting at home doing nothing for a sustained amount of time? It sucks. People want to be productive contributing citizens by nature and how many of us are forced into crappy jobs just because they were the only ones we could get? What would people do if they didn't have to worry about having their basic needs met? I think most of us would be much more creative and productive in the long run. No one likes being forced into doing something just for money. So who would clean the bathrooms? How does it work at home? Do you get paid to do it at home? No, you do it because you feel responsible. Is it so unrealistic to imagine that people could feel responsible for their communities? Are we really all just lazy sots?

[-] 0 points by admin (15) 3 years ago

"[H]ave you tried sitting at home doing nothing for a sustained amount of time?"

"What would people do if they didn't have to worry about having their basic needs met?"

If someone is sitting around doing nothing, it would seem that their basic needs are being met. Therefore, people would sit around doing nothing if their basic needs were met.

"I think most of us would be much more creative and productive in the long run. "

Creative and productive with what? You would only have your basic needs met. Will the next set of demands include a minimum number of craft paints and brushes for all?

[-] 1 points by guntotinsquaw (1) 3 years ago

Hurry let's change all the power from big oil and nuclear to ....unicorn farts and fairy dust...ROFLMAO...Thank God you have given us your insight...priceless!!

[-] 1 points by realamaerican (1) 3 years ago

I think your recommendation should go to the top of the List of Demands - it sets the stage for those that follow. I really did laugh out loud.

[-] 0 points by toemoss71 (0) 3 years ago

guntotinsquaw -

Well said!! These are anarchistic demands from a group of adolescents that have no real world experience. Some of the demands conflict with each other, and some would have catastrophic results.

This is an excellent example of the "college students know everything" crowd, those who haven't; held a job, worked their way up to a good job, paid taxes (to understand what it feels like), had to decide which bills to pay and which to postpone, putting someone else before yourself (spouse, child, etc.), and put in a hard day at work and then have a series of responsibilities to take care of in the evening.

This is akin to a virgin with no experience in romance being a couselor for couples having issues; know-nothing arrogance that will do an incredible amount of harm and possibly devistation.

IMHO, toemoss

[-] 2 points by hungrykid (2) 3 years ago

These "college students" as you say don't even have the oppertunity to move up through a job, or a company- unless its mcdonalds or the like. Seasoned workers that are supposed to be retiring aren't, they can't, aged persons are losing their jobs promoting them to search for others. Pretend you are head of a well-to-do business. Will you hire the grad student fresh out of school with no expirance, or joe schmo that also has a degree who worked in the feild for 25 yrs and just got canned because his business bombed? The point is, there are no jobs out there. Degree or no degree. And some people, like myself, have been looking and looking without sucess and won't ever be able to find jobs in the areas we live as our parents did. I'm so glad all you "old people" are living so cushy while I'm applying for foodstamps, just because the economy was better when you were a "college kid" I'm in debt up to the celing of my shitty apartment, starving, and oh yeah I didn't have the 10k to pay for my last semester of college so I don't even have a degree yet. I'm a hardworking intelligent person wanting to start my life, pushing 30, and the 'fact' is I can't. Not anytime soon. Things need to change in america, that's the point of the occupations. Just remember when all you "old people" are in nursing homes sucking up your social security, we won't be able to run this shit hole because we'll all be homeless. There are no set demands for anyone, but everyone all agrees that america isn't working, and needs reform, change. We voted in obama for that reason and he hasn't delivered yet, at least not in my area.

[-] 0 points by SealandHippieClubber (0) 3 years ago

I'm young. I have a college degree that mommy and daddy didn't pay for. I worked more than 40 hours per week all through college. I have a great job that pays very well. Stop blaming successful people for your inability to hack it in this world because you suck at life. Do us tax payers a favor and either suck it up, or lock yourself in your crappy apt and nibble on the barrel of gun so we don't have to pay for your food stamps!

[-] 0 points by Jana66 (6) 3 years ago

Very well said. Us old people worked at jobs that young people think are beneath them. We had pride in ourselves and did whatever it took to earn our way. I hear how poor people suffer. There are no poor people in this country. Most so called victims don't know the meaning of the poor. These people are of a welfare mentality.

[-] 0 points by Robert (1) 3 years ago

Potential healthcare costs keep employers from hiring the seasoned veteran in favor of a slow witted, inexperienced candidate.

[-] 0 points by kudukid (1) 3 years ago

May I suggest using your legs and going to those states that have very low unemployment to look for work. They might not be places you want to settle in or the kind of work you would like, but they might just get you out of the doldrums. Even in this job climate there are good paying jobs that are going begging. As far as "soaking up my Social Security", I paid dearly for it my entire working life and my governments (federal - state - local) have squandered it on giveaway programs for generational do nothings. Had I been able to invest it myself I'd be a multimillionaire by now.

[-] 1 points by DarkStar (43) 3 years ago

Even in this job climate there are good paying jobs that are going begging

What jobs, where, by which companies?

I hear this LIE spouted every day. Come up with some names.

[-] 1 points by LeoFarmer (3) from Belleville, NJ 3 years ago

And well said by you as well!

[-] -1 points by jxm (1) 3 years ago

The Occupy Wall Street Gnomes Plan

  1. collect underpants

  2. ???

  3. Riches for everyone

[-] 0 points by JonathanKlondowski (31) from Bangor, ME 3 years ago

LOL!!! Very nice. This is what happens when people make their "demands" while high.

[-] 0 points by BlancaP (4) 3 years ago

A Living Wage Platform regardless of employment is DOA unless we go Communist, and then it will be a barely living wage for everyone. The wage one receives has to be related to what that person is worth in terms of marginal contribution to productivity of a marketable product.

Too many in this "movement" are the product of a failed education system and a permissive society so it's no surprise that they fail to understand even basic economics. Yes, we need a minimum wage and yes, we need to restructure the tax code, but what is considered "rich" is not that much money. Already half of all households pay no income tax and over 83% is paid by household incomes over $67,000, which is hardly rich in most of the country. Virtually any household with two wage earners with college degrees or public safety jobs or any kind of management jobs fall in the "rich" category.

I'm sorry but the things you are demanding will only make us ALL poorer. Is the goal to turn the US into a third world country?

[-] 3 points by rmmo (262) 3 years ago

Here is the real problem: the massive "wealth redistribution" that has gone on for the last 30 years. The top 1% now control over 42% of our entire nation's wealth and the top 10% now control over 70% of our entire nations wealth. The bottom 50% controls a meager less than 2% of our entire nation's wealth. How did this happen?

The middle class spends their wealth on goods/services and the corporations have redistributed their wealth by paying their profits all out to the executives and shareholders. Middle class wages have stagnated for 30 years while executive wages have gone up 256% in since 1980. Even last year executive compensation went up another 11%. The top 1% now controls over 42% of the entire nation's wealth. We have not seen numbers like this since the great depression. The top 10% controls 70% of the entire nation's wealth. All of our nation's wealth has been redistributed into the hands of the few.

The middle class was roped into replacing wages with easy credit. So instead of paying people living wages, corporations fooled us into thinking we were doing well and could afford things by giving us easy credit instead of wages. Instead of having wages to buy t.v.'s, furniture, etc. we were given easy loans. So the middle class became a debtor class. There used to be a tax disincentive to paying out all of corporate profits at the top because in the 1950's income was taxed at 90% over a certain amount money and now that tax disincentive has disappeared. In 1950's the highest marginal tax rate was 90%. In 1960-1970's it was 70%. In 1980's it dropped to 49%. In 1990's dropped to 39%. Under George Bush it dropped to a mere 36%. We have had over 30 years of massive tax cuts for the wealthy.

There is now no tax disincentive to paying out all of the corporate wealth at the top. And there is no employee bargaining power because now less than 12% of all of our jobs are unionized. Corporate profits are at an all time high, healthcare company profits are at an all time high, and oil profits are at an all time high. We don't have a healthcare crisis we have a healthcare company profit-taking crisis that no politician will doing anything about. Healthcare and oil companies have enjoyed a decade of record profits while we have had a decade of massive premiums for little coverage and a decade of outrageous gas prices.

The problems are: 1) deregulation of the banks by the Republican-controlled congress in 1999; 2) hedge funds are exempt from regulation; 3) tax system no longer has a disincentive against paying outrageous executive salaries (highest marginal tax rate has dropped from 90% to 36%); 4) commodities market is exempt from regulation (Republican-controlled Congress exempted it in the Commodities Future Modernization act of 2000); 5) the Supreme Court has ruled that corporations can spend unlimited funds in campaign elections (thus politicians on both sides favor the wealthy/corporations) and 6) the rise of corporate/billionaire propaganda media "news." Because of the need to raise massive sums in politics today, we no longer have a party that represents the people. The Democrats have to chase the corporate and big money donors too.

What can we do about this: 1) re-instate Glass-Steagall Act regulating the banks; 2) regulate hedge funds and the commodities market (because the commodities market is not regulated speculation has caused prices for commodities to go through the roof); 3) get rid of the money in politics (have federally funded elections with clear limits on spending and no outside groups allowed to have ads); 4) get rid of 1980's laws stating that corporations' only duty is to maximize shareholder profits; and 5) regulate "news" channels and newspapers (no more "slanted opinion news" masquerading as hard news) and reinstitute the fairness doctrine across all news outlets to ensure that both sides get equal time.

Corporations should have duties to society and to their workers too. They should have to balance their duties to maximize shareholder profits against their reinstated duties to their employees and to society. The laws saying that corporations' only duty is to maximize shareholder profits have led to the destruction of long-term business plans and care for their workers and have created short-term profit monsters at the expense of workers and society.

[-] 2 points by steve2287 (4) 3 years ago

For some time now we have been legalizing and institutionalizing the corruption of democracy in this country. As long as this process resulted in most people’s boats rising-people ignored it. But at present we have experienced a precipitous drop and have witnessed the inability of government to do anything about it. We are still headed on a course for things to get worse. It would be nice to roll back all those laws and practices of the past 50 years that got us into this mess but how would that realistically happen? Basically we have traded the Kings and monarchs of year’s yore for the harder-to-identify powers that actually pull the strings in our society. And unlike our Founding Fathers, I don’t think that modern day Americans have the vision or stomach for a Revolution-we have a culture of consumerism; too many addictions to keep us distracted. And it is unlikely that the 1% and the 99% will come together unless we create/identify some serious external threat; the rhetoric alone should be proof enough. The most likely outcome of all is that part of the 99% will be placated and things will just continue to decline, only more gradually. So I am in solidarity with the occupy wallstreet protestors- I just hope some focus develops. Meanwhile, what’s a member of the precariat to do? --just continue trying to get by in these precarious times; work to become more self sufficient, take comfort in relationships rather than things.

[-] 2 points by steve2287 (4) 3 years ago

Well said-in your opinion is the occupy wall street movement worth supporting? I wanted to support it but after reading the list of demands abd the many posts here I am uncertain-in Chicago

[-] 2 points by DonJ (16) 3 years ago

rmmo, that was brilliant. Don't forget that the New Republicans are correcting what the Old Republicans have done by voting down the old. We will clean this mess up. The current Democrats are hopeless but they will be replaced also, after we get a good GOP starting with Ron Paul.

I'm saving your whole post, you will see parts of it throughout the web from today forward. Thank you for putting it so succinctly. You're "What can we do about this:" is exactly right.

[-] 2 points by rmmo (262) 3 years ago

I used to be a Republican, but because of these problems I turned to the Democratic party. Now I know that neither party represents the people and the Supreme Court Citizens United decision allowing unlimited election spending by the wealthy and big business has made sure that the people's interests will never be represented.

[-] 1 points by phb (6) 3 years ago

Blanca, it turns out wage doesn't have that much to do with productivity, at least not when it comes to mental productivity - check out Dan Pink www.ted.com/talks/dan_pink_on_motivation.html. I don't think we would have to go communist for something like this to happen. It would just mean wallstreet execs would have to give up their bonus' for a few years.

[-] 0 points by LloydJHart (190) from Vineyard Haven, MA 3 years ago

Blanca your putting out nothing but republican talking points.

[-] 1 points by DarkStar (43) 3 years ago

So you're a liar as well as a whiner now.

[-] -1 points by AlanO (52) 3 years ago

I see. So you're saying this is all the democratic party's fault.

Why no mention of the republican party? Your suggestions can no longer be taken seriously, because you tainted them with "rhetoric" by finger pointing. You can't blame this on one party or another. Its too deep for that. BOTH parties have played their part, and BOTH parties carry equal blame.

Some of the suggestions you put forth are actually feasible. While others are simply outlandish and unrealistic. Like wanting to forgive "all 65 trillion dollars". Do you really believe that is all that is owed after decades of unfunded liabilities? The actual figure is over $130trillion. More than double that which you indicated. And the only way to get out from under that massive debt, is to simply write down ALL "domestic debt". Leaving ONLY foreign debt. Which you CANNOT write down as a simple matter of fairness to the nations that we owe. Unless you want the world to erupt in war against you.

The "free" college education is another technical impossibility. How do you propose to pay the scholars you want to provide a sufficient level of curriculum? Taxes? Perhaps you should outline how this non-partisan new system of taxation would work. At least then it might seem at least half-serious.

To outlaw credit reporting agencies, you would first need to abolish credit entirely. Otherwise, you have no way of monitoring "credit worthiness" based upon a history of borrowing.

If you really want to get serious about healthcare costs, you can start by letting Medicare and Medicaid negotiate prescription drug prices in line with the VA. That's 80% of the problem with healthcare right there.

The infrastructure spending is an achievable goal. But the ecological spending far exceeds what nature can do for itself by simply employing "proper" regulatory measures. "Some" investment is certainly warranted though. But it would simply be a better option to add most of those funds into the infrastructure projects. For which "at least" $2trillion is needed.

Open borders invites national security risks. Citizenship is a requirement in most civilised nations. Reform is certainly needed, but "open borders" simply goes way too far.

A national minimum wage is definitely achievable, although your figure of $20/hr is negotiable. I raised a family of 6 on an average wage of $15/hr, for much of the past 30 years. And that was mostly within a single household income. My wife held various jobs in the $8-9hr range, and things were MUCH easier during those times. Our kids worked hard in school, and 2 ended up in the military, one working in the construction field (with me), and our daughter married a responsible young man who cares deeply for her and my granddaughter, and provides for them quite nicely on his lone $17.50/hr factory wage.

The election and equal rights matters, I certainly have no issue with. They need to be addressed honestly and openly. And the ideologies that surround them need to be checked at the door before that discussion can begin.

Trade is another area causing big problems. "Free trade" is a farce. It was a farce when NAFTA was implemented, and its STILL a farce with these new agreements making their way through congress. Dump the free trade fantasy, and implement "fair trade" instead. My rate is your rate. I pay the same to sell my goods in your country, as you do to sell your goods in mine. Simple as that. With penalties and sanctions imposed for any offense of currency manipulation to tilt the equality scale. I catch you manipulating your currency, I suspend your shipments into my country until you rectify the discrepancy, and suspend shipping to your country.

If you REALLY want this to be taken seriously, and gain tremendous support by consensus, then there only needs to be ONE objective:

Sever EVERY connection between Wall Street and Washington. Lobbyists, campaign donations, congressional market activity, EVERYTHING.

Achieve that, and you begin the domino effect of toppling failed policy built upon that systemic problem. To avoid preferential policy decisions, you need to remove any incentive that goes against the general welfare of the majority populous.

Get Wall Streets money out of Washington by constitutional measure, and you can finally sit down and seriously discuss HOW to go about fixing the system, in accordance with what is best for country, its economic health, and the well being of its people.

[-] 3 points by expatcanuck (6) 3 years ago

Clinton put "free trade" in place. Ron Paul is the only credible candidate trying to bring the Fed under control.

[-] 2 points by DonJ (16) 3 years ago

That is exactly right, audit the Fed, bring the troops home and stop these illegal wars, free Larkin, balance the budget and don't spend money we don't have. Stop Foreign Aid to our enemies, Protect our boarders.

[-] 2 points by marxistscum (18) 3 years ago

Well said.

[-] 2 points by lauremac (5) 3 years ago

I think there are way too many demands, many of which seem utterly irresponsible such as, 'debt forgiveness on the entire planet', and outlaw all credit reporting agencies. Those two demands take credibility away from the statement as a whole, and make it sound like a 1st grade story on, "what I would do if I was president of the world'.

[-] 2 points by nosocialism (7) 3 years ago

agreed. This is 1st - 2nd grade level thought process

[-] 0 points by Esposito (173) 3 years ago

Alright - we'll reduce our demands to one. Free chocolate milk at recess.

AND WE'RE NOT BACKING DOWN FROM THAT ONE PAL!

[-] 0 points by th83 (1) 3 years ago

Nicely put! If I were president of the world, I would plant magical money trees, fertilized by unicorn poo that would grow organic hemp-money backed by happiness and good will! YAY!!!

[-] 1 points by blazefire (947) 2 years ago

One objective. Modus Operandi. One thing, that would solve every thing. Mundus vult decipi. World Peace. Carpe diem.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/50500650/yourtopia-your%20official%20final%20beginning.pdf

[-] 1 points by grazer (1) from Somerfield, Canterbury 3 years ago

Alen0 What you have stated is more in line with the occupy worldwide movement. The list of demands are pointed out to be one random persons idea and have been posted to express they are not a condoned expression of the general group. My opinion as an individual is that money was once just a tool for trade but now we trade for money. We are exploiting everything to the point of destruction just to have more access to money. We push each other down in order to get ahead in the spirit of competition. This is fine if you don't really care about anything except how how you measure yourself against others but I do and so do many of those people in the occupations. This is a movement of moral fibre and respect. It has no demands but begs a question to anyone and everyone. I don't know how to express this question but if you honestly listen to your feelings around how you would truly like to live you will know in your heart what that question is. This occupation is more than a movement it is inevitability .

[-] 1 points by MrObvious (1) 3 years ago

Let's follow the logic: 1) A minimum wage is good. 2) A higher minimum wage is better. 3) An even higher minimum wage is even better yet. Therefore, why are we not demanding that we pay everyone at least $1,000,000 per year?? All problems solved! Perpetual nirvana is here!! Whew, that was hard, I need to lie down. And, because I make so much money now, I can afford to pay someone to bring me a cold drink whenever I want! Wait, I have to pay them how much?!? D'oh!!

[-] 1 points by littleg (452) 3 years ago

Yes 1M$ for every worker. Tell Bernanke and he will happily print it for you. Then a coke will be worth 100$.

[-] 1 points by LloydJHart (190) from Vineyard Haven, MA 3 years ago

Voters are neither democratic nor republican. Voters vote their pocket book and have continually switched their voting patterns as a whole accordingly. All I meant was when the elected republicans screw up the economy through corrupt cronyism and war the public by vast majorities are willing to be seduced by democratic party lies.

[-] 1 points by DonJ (16) 3 years ago

Until 2010 no one could tell the difference between a GOP and Dem. We are changing the GOP and bringing it to what the public wants. The public is learning through the internet what was done wrong and new candidates with nation building philosophies are being elected in the GOP.

[-] 1 points by someindependent (2) 3 years ago

Nation building by Republicans is deficit spending, which is financially irresponsible. Nation Building by Democrats is tax increases, which is financially responsible, but unpopular. For all the hark about wanting to run the government like a business, a REAL business would try to raise its revenues to meet growing expenses. It's just common sense. Only reason Republicans say no is they want the Democrats to do it and take the blame and have the best of both worlds.

Obviously you could go the other route and slash expenses to all hell...but then you're not building a nation, just the unemployment line.

[-] 1 points by someindependent (2) 3 years ago

In short, simple economic terms: there's no such thing as a free lunch. You want a better country, you'd best be prepared to pay for it somehow, either in higher taxes or fewer services.

[-] 1 points by freedomfirst (8) 3 years ago

However, voters ARE aware of right and wrong, which transcends party lines. If they only voted with their wallets, it would be way too easy for the majority to take control and vote to take all the money from the rich and give it to the poor, which is immoral. Wait, that sounds familiar...

[-] 1 points by BlueRiver2010 (1) 2 years ago

Tom, you speak truth. What they also need is a spokesperson. Once a main goal, an a speaker of that main goal is established, it will be easier for people to agree, or disagree upon demands. Right now, there are so many points to this whole thing that nobody on the outside of the protest is able to decide whether or not they can be fully satisfied with their decisions of support.

[-] 1 points by acriticalthinker (8) 2 years ago

Also, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too unrealistic. Not a single one has any attachment to the real world. Soviet communism has a better chance of working than these demands!

[-] 1 points by MsManyQuestions (2) 3 years ago

Definitely agree on the "too many" ... there needs to be a focus and list of ways they think they can be accomplished.

[-] 1 points by RodgerMitchell (4) 3 years ago

A far better list is at: http://rodgermmitchell.wordpress.com/2011/10/12/5163/ Rodger Malcolm Mitchell

[-] 1 points by DarkStar (43) 3 years ago

A short list of simple talking points is the key to winning. The right-wing HAS to do this because they're drooling morons, and it works pretty well. We have to do it because the average American has the attention span of a housefly and the critical thinking skills of a potted plant.

Brutal but true. A list like this will get the movement nowhere.

[-] 1 points by SAETKHAN (8) 3 years ago

exactly. they have know idea how to protest. they will not accomplish anything. if they smart they as for specific demands. 1 stop the war 2 pay back the bayout money

[-] 1 points by occupywallstreetbabycom (12) 2 years ago

Yeah if you were smart you could actually make sense when you type there buddy

[-] 1 points by 1DemandLibertyandFreedom (8) 3 years ago

End The FED! Is something that people on the right and left agree is at the root of the problem. Without the FEDERAL RESERVE, the GOV couldn't bailout Wall Street, nor could they de-value your money. As for the Government bailing out the american people debt, I'd rather have that then them bailing out Wall Street, but both perpetuate more GOV, as do these overseas wars.

[-] 2 points by speighd (6) 3 years ago

Get rid of the FED! They cause the most hideous tax, inflation by running the printing presses.

[-] 2 points by BlancaP (4) 3 years ago

Why not just fix the Fed? How would a country operate without a central bank? Go back and take an economics course.

[-] 3 points by DonJ (16) 3 years ago

Have a system based on actual value, our land, our metals. You can't fix stupid but we can fix corrupt.

[-] 2 points by bobgreen1111 (4) 3 years ago

The Fed was a corrupt from the start when only three 3 congressman voted it into power Xmax eve 1913 when congress was CLOSED... Just one more thing. Which fascist policing department will force ALL these new laws upon the people and how many will go to jail for not obeying? How many lives will YOUR police have to destroy to FORCE these rules on the people?? You are steering us right into the George Orwell 1984 socialist nightmare state. Maybe you should add one more demand. #15 - Gave all the cops black uniforms and machine guns to enforce all these rules.

[-] 1 points by DarkStar (43) 3 years ago

Read a history book you corporate puppet! Our nation ran just dandy without a central bank.

[-] 1 points by TommyNYC (730) 2 years ago

You're the corporate puppet DorkStar. The Fed is just the latest whipping boy of the GOP, a distraction from the real culprits. If you read history books that weren't written by neo-nazi sympathizing crackpots, you would realize that a central bank is just a non-political entity that sets interest rates, issues currency and regulates the banking industry. Oh yeah, and its run by Zionist lizard-people from planet Zolar.

[-] 1 points by goatdude (13) 3 years ago

TARP was paid back. Check your facts

[-] 4 points by Burglar2000 (4) 3 years ago

No, they really didn't. They simply pulled the wool over your eyes. The payback for many of them was illusory. They raised the capital to payback the CPP funds by issuing bonds backed by the FDIC, which allowed them to subvert the requirements of the CPP program. However, the federal gov't, i.e. the taxpayers, are still on the hook if they can't make good on those bonds. Check your facts before telling someone else to check their facts.

[-] 1 points by Cows (1) 3 years ago

LOL no. All of TARP (ex-GM and Chrysler) was paid back and the US taxpayer earned $20 billion on top of principal. FDIC does not back bonds, which is irrelevant to this discussion anyways. The bulge-bracket banks paid the TARP funds back by issuing common stock.

[-] 1 points by BlancaP (4) 3 years ago

Yes, it was paid back. No, it was not a good idea to bail out the banks without some severe restrictions on what they could do with the money, and putting regulations in place so it can't happen again.

And the source of the payback was primarily issuing stock where the risk falls on whoever bought it. You know, those people you hate because they are willing to risk their own assets to create the jobs and have the nerve to expect some kind of return on it if it succeeds and will eat the looses of it fails.

[-] 1 points by goatdude (13) 3 years ago

agreed

[-] 0 points by Casper (-8) 3 years ago

Moron #15

[-] 0 points by WorkForMoney (0) 3 years ago

"US Taxpayer earned $20 Billion"? How is this returned to the US taxpayers, shape or form would be acceptable answers.

[-] 0 points by goatdude (13) 3 years ago

the US TREASURY is the fact source. do you not trust the government?

[-] 2 points by crockett911 (6) 3 years ago

And the US TREASURY is not the GOVERNMENT? IF not who are they?

[-] -1 points by Casper (-8) 3 years ago

Hell no!

[-] 1 points by ferretburger (11) 3 years ago

And Hell is where you belong, sir.

[-] -1 points by getoffwallstreet (-1) 3 years ago

Really? The government could not devalue your money without the Fed? One of the main purpose of the Fed is to keep the printing press out of government hands. The fed is a semi private entity, and without it, the government would be able to print money at will to meet obligations....

[-] 2 points by freedomfirst (8) 3 years ago

That's right. When Congress is in control of the money (as is constitutional), and they pull something stupid, at least we can vote them out, or even IMPEACH them. We have absolutely NO control over the FED. We MUST return to a precious-metal based dollar, or it ends up like Zimbabwe, where you can buy a $1000 bill with a hamburger.

[-] 2 points by April (3196) 3 years ago

Sadly, right now, we have trouble voting them out. Because 1% buys their representation. 99% are left with the crumbs. The system must be changed to get the money out of politics. If we have publicly funded political system, everyone has a voice. And then, all things are possible.

[-] 0 points by Cows (1) 3 years ago

False. All Governors on the FOMC are appointed by the President of the US and confirmed by Congress. If you don't like a Fed Governor, tell your elected representative.

[-] 4 points by SeparationOfCorpandState (81) from Muskegon, MI 3 years ago

Let's have a full audit of the FED and see were we stand. Better yet lets request full disclosure of the FED from the Freedom of Information Act.

[-] 2 points by Zand (5) from Pflugerville, TX 3 years ago

Like they would listen?

[-] 0 points by liberalismisamentaldisorder (1) 3 years ago

That's not going to do anything. The rallies look like a Greenpeace convention with most of the people scraggily dressed and pointing the finger at the rich. The point you are all missing is a) people will be turned off unless you have a professional looking approach with normal people b) some of the rich have created a ton of jobs with living wage salaries c) Don't look like a bunch of unemployed homeless people when you're standing out there trying to get people to listen to you.

Your message (albeit some of the more crazy ideas I've seen above and floating around by members of your group) are good, but honestly it looks like 75% of the people at your rally are just there because they like to protest and enjoy controversy, but really have no idea what they're talking about.

[-] 0 points by burleson1970 (72) 3 years ago

First and Only Demand: Make Cuban cigars legal. That's easy. Once the government accomplishes that (and my humidor is full) the rest is academic. lol...

[-] 0 points by smarvy (0) from Middletown, CT 3 years ago

in the headnote to this list, it mentioned that this article was created by an individual. that word, individual, in and of itself is the opposite of what this movement preaches.

to me, in my humble opinion, i feel as if some of these demands are both reasonable and feasible. some are obviously ignorant and naive.

for this movement to accomplish concrete change, we do need focus. focus is not having the third google result to the word search 'occupy' lead to this article. this is jibber jabber.

[-] 0 points by eskosrage (8) 3 years ago

My name is Steven Gonzales, and i live in VA. I say strike all demands and vote for this one simple amendment.

SEPERATION OF CORPORATION AND STATE.

This simple departure will cover the majority of your demands.

Think about how the church at one time dominated governments. And think, for a moment, about how the separation of CHURCH AND STATE alleviated a great deal of corruption. This one demand is what you seek . this one simple demand is the type that can unify the movement, and could actually have a chance at success.

my resolve to the separation would be this. Corporations would be forced to put money into the election fund, which would then be evenly distributed to ALL recognized political parties. NO MORE VOTING ON THE PEOPLE THE CORPORATIONS PICKED. LET AMERICANS VOTE. LET AMERICANS CAST THEIR VOICE.

[-] -2 points by henrybowman (-8) from New York, NY 3 years ago

To get the people on your side, you must first disarm them, by force if necessary! Power to the people!

[-] 2 points by MrBiden (-2) 3 years ago

Break into my home to take my property and violate my Constitutional (and God-given) rights - by force? Will you have your fascist bully boys do it or do you have the balls to be the first one through the front door? Force will be met by force - multiplied, and I will shoot you in the head. Molon labe

[-] 2 points by OKborn57 (4) 3 years ago

What does gun control have to do with ecomomics , you must be one of those bleeding damn Democraps. Have a wonderful life not having the ability to protect your loved ones in a life or death situation.

[-] 1 points by haakondahl (3) 3 years ago

I think Mr. Bowman is having a little fun.

[-] 0 points by SpongeBobPrinterpants (-5) 3 years ago

We'll never get real reform when homicidal teabaggers can threaten everyone with guns.

Gun nuts are holding the nation hostage.

[-] 2 points by Gunnerdad (3) 3 years ago

Not for gun nuts you wouldn't be writting crap like that on a site like this. Try some of your hero countries like Russia or China. Lots of liberty there. While you're at it try to find those few thousand freedom fighters whose unarmed asses disappeared one night in Tiananmen Square. Better Teabagger than Red or dead. Strange "Teabagger" implies I'm pitching...so you must be catching.

[-] 1 points by DarkStar (43) 3 years ago

"While you're at it try to find those few thousand freedom fighters whose unarmed asses disappeared one night in Tiananmen Square"

Many of them disappeared to a far-off town or to personal hidey-holes. Armed resistance would have done nothing except made them target practice for the Chinese military and gotten NO sympathy from the outside world, and they darn well knew it.

[-] 2 points by speighd (6) 3 years ago

So the secret government board that can till you without due process is no danger?

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud

[-] 2 points by aJeffersonian (2) 3 years ago

When the mob mentality takes over because we run out of resources who would you rather be: the "gun nut" who has an arsony of weapons to use as protection... or the guy that wants to talk things out peacefully with the angry mob on his doorstep. When it comes down to it I will do whatever it takes to protect myself and those I care about.

[-] 2 points by zee788 (4) 3 years ago

from that video that's been going around the internet and tv, it looked to me like the homicidal gun nuts were the police, not the tea party guys.

[-] 1 points by DonJ (16) 3 years ago

Exactly.

[-] 2 points by dick (26) 3 years ago

Send all their guns to the Mexican drug lords!

[-] 2 points by revg33k (429) from Woodstock, IL 3 years ago

Now now the ATF tried that, and we know how that went....

[-] 1 points by DarkStar (43) 3 years ago

And as long as their opposition consists of hippies posting angry words on the internet, the chances of reform are "Z":

Zero, Zilch, Zip!

[-] 1 points by TheDailyCannibal (12) 3 years ago

This is terrible. How can we free them? Where are they? Why hasn't the emdia covered this? Shameful.

[-] 1 points by OKborn57 (4) 3 years ago

We are them and they are us. Take responsiblity for what we have become and change or doom yourselves to Socialism. And zee its seems you have issues with cops, they on the most part are responding with equal force that is dealt to them. Idiotic statements like yours shows the example of national decline of respect for our protectors that includes parents, teachers etc. no wonder this is no longer the greatest nation in the world. We reap what we sow!

[-] 1 points by DonJ (16) 3 years ago

I'm repeating what I said, remember the black hoods getting caught in their own game wearing police shoes? I do. Now at any rally we will be carrying whistles or loud noisemakers when these lawbreakers try to do damage and blame it on the TP. They will be surrounded until justice is done.

[-] 0 points by OKborn57 (4) 3 years ago

I would think a with a name like spongebob you propably have the same sense of wonderment about your world well wake up. There is a crack head out there just waiting for people like you to be their next victim. Good Luck spongey.

[-] 0 points by MortalRebuke (0) from Stamford, CT 3 years ago

Yea because everyone with a gun is a nutcase. Get a reality check you dolt. Legal gun owners aren't the problem.

[-] -1 points by JonathanKlondowski (31) from Bangor, ME 3 years ago

Gee, the Tea Party members aren't the ones who keep getting arrested for violating the law, threatening people, breaking things...

[-] 2 points by DonJ (16) 3 years ago

No, remember the black hoods getting caught in their own game wearing police shoes? I do. Now at any rally we will be carrying whistles or loud noisemakers when these lawbreakers try to do damage and blame it on the TP. They will be surrounded until justice is done.

[-] 1 points by Winston (23) 3 years ago

Thanks AJ. It seems from this forum that the entire US gets it's political education from a reactionary talk show host(s).

[-] 1 points by DarkStar (43) 3 years ago

Such 'force' will consist of throwing rocks and Molotovs at the very most. And then the police will come in and haul you off to the nearest prison, where you'll undergo a butt-f*cking marathon from the inmates.

If the British had the equipment and training the cops and military did now, we'd be flying the Union Jack and singing God Save the Queen at rugby games. So don't even start with your revolution fantasies.

[-] 0 points by Gunnerdad (3) 3 years ago

Come get them....hurry I'm waiting. You don't mind hollow points do you? Bring your forcey ass on. Be a lot of jobs available afterward but mostly in the Funeral biz. We won't go like the Jews did so better pack your lunch....as if you'd have the ballz. 7.62 full..metal jacket

[-] 0 points by Mazeman (3) 3 years ago

So ignore the 2nd Amendment? Lord, do you even realize that you're a fascist?!

[-] 4 points by zipo333 (6) from Pittsburgh, PA 3 years ago

The more I think about it, this list seems designed to make this movement look foolish. Seems like sabotage. No shit, it's that ridiculous...

[-] 2 points by sfcharles (41) from San Francisco, CA 3 years ago

Bingo, I think you're onto something there. The whole thing is a complete piece of trash, and Lloyd's responses to people who challenge it are full-on bullshit. And yet, this is the list that got picked up by the media.

[-] 2 points by oh7Eek2 (8) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

That's because there is no list. This is not a movement, it has no goals, demands, purpose or reason for existing. It is simply a temper tantrum on a small but highly publicized scale.

[-] 1 points by DarkStar (43) 3 years ago

I think there's a 50/50 chance that this was written by some inbred Rethuglican loon as a joke/trolling attempt, and accidentally got posted as something serious.

[-] 4 points by AstraStarr (71) from New Paltz, NY 3 years ago

END THE FED End the genocide in the middle east, and the billions of dollars being bathed in middle eastern blood

[-] 2 points by LloydJHart (190) from Vineyard Haven, MA 3 years ago

This anyone could agree with.

[-] 4 points by Reason (4) 3 years ago
  1. I can buy (until demand #11 institute super inflation) the idea of re instituting tariffs. Raising the minimum wage would be great for the one guy who didn't lose his job but less great for everyone else (a person paid 20 an hour is receiving roughly 3 times current compensation, faced with this, in order to keep profits consistent, companies must either fire employees or raise prices. Due to the lack of foreign competition (because of tarriffs), this will mean that all products would become roughly 3 times more expensive. I hope you like ramen.)

  2. The only way to do this would be for the gov to absorb them all. They tried that, a lot of people got mad.

  3. Why would i work for money when I could not work to get money?

  4. Hello taxes. How are you? I'd like you to radically increase to pay for other peoples college. A lot of them will just party too hard and drop out after 2 years, but no harm done.

  5. You can't flip a switch and change to green energy. It has to be independently financially competitive. Lets face it, coal is cheap and theres still plenty of it. Our Canadian friends to the north have at least as much oil as the middle east in their oil sands. Green tech still has a ways to go before it can compete.

  6. We do need this one, though demand #11's inflation mess would make the trillion worth like maybe a billion.

  7. Forestry (in the united states at least) is already largely sustainable and Chicago worked really hard to reverse that river. The only problem with nuclear power is those spent fuel rods. Fourtunately, the US has ample space to store them. If you don't believe me, you've obviously never driven through the midwest. When it takes you 2 hours cruising at 80 mph to go from small patch of civilization to next small patch of civilization, i think we're ok. Or we do have all that southwestern desert. This had better be a money thing, cause those things are really pretty safe. It took a typhoon and an earthquake to make the one in japan hav a problem. doesn't get much safer than that.

  8. The 15 amendment prohibits the federal government and the states from using a citizen's race, color, or previous status as a slave as a qualification for voting. The 19th Prohibits the federal government and the states from forbidding any citizen to vote due to their sex. ...so

  9. I agree. Nations are lame. They like, try and protects their citizens n stuff. Good thing wars never happen.

  10. I think we are often that independent party. I like the system where we observe ourselves. PS, faud happens with paper ballots too, and the take a lot more time and $.

  11. Oh boy. Where to start. Well, there arent really any books anymore, its all on the computer (there that was easy, now were started!).

So here's how loans work: You got no cash and are hungry and a guy gives you $20 for a pizza. He says you can pay him back later, but you gotta pay him 20 + $1 cause he had plans for that money and he coulda given it to someone else AND YOU AGREE. Hopefully you pay him back and everyone wins. If you don't, then you gotta keep paying him dollars cause you did get your pizza and he wants his money back in return and your taking forever to get back to him while your stuffing your face. If you refuse, he takes your pizza, cause really he paid for it anyway. This is basically how debts work for peeps and for countries as well. If you erase all debt, then that reallllyy isnt fair to the people who gave out the loan.

On top of that, wall street, and the US for that matter, doesn't really have the authority to tell the world: "hey guys, you remember all that cash we owed you, we dont anymore, poof its gone". I mean, how they actually make this happen? Why would countries that have given out a bunch of loans (like china) not just veto this at the security council (of which china is a permanent member)? They want their money back foo!

And even if, by some finical, political, and diplomatic miracle they actually made that happen, have you heard of inflation? Cuase you just injected and additional 65 trillion dollars into the world economy, which by the way, is somewhere between 65-75 trillion in size (that was a wiki fact, not totally reliable i know but its usually close when it comes to financial statistics). So in one stroke you have double the world economy overnight. I don't even want to think about it. If you must, imagine people carrying wheelbarrows of cash to buy bread, using hundreds as TP, really weimar republic germany stuff. in a word: BAD

  1. Well, number 11 would ruin everyone's credit (cause we all ran out on our commitments), so this seems a reasonable step given the world destroying suggestion above.

  2. I'm tired. its yea or nay, not yeah or nay.

[-] 2 points by Winston (23) 3 years ago

Canadian friends? We don't like you and the environmental damage your oil addiction is having on our soil. Like the rest of the world, we hate you (for your "freedoms" - yeah, your freedoms - I'm still rolling). Nonetheless, you'll take it by force when the empire collapses (the one you leave out of your cost accounting - empires are expensive, the beneficiaries are few and they do not pay the cost in $ or in lives).

[-] 0 points by Esposito (173) 3 years ago

Dude your* such a h8r!

*actually spelled 'you're'.

[-] 1 points by goatdude (13) 3 years ago

Nice to see a cogent response. Keep up the good work!

[-] 1 points by TheDailyCannibal (12) 3 years ago

It's "yeah" to him. As in: "Yeah, man." Solar power to the people.

[-] 1 points by dick (26) 3 years ago

Great analysis. Taxes can't pay for college, though, because I'll have a living wage regardless of my employment, and the government can't tax me on my guaranteed wages.

Maybe there's a country out east that could spot us the cash for that.

[-] 4 points by exUSSR (2) 3 years ago

Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live.

Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all


if I was not so fond of US of A, I would love nothing more than for you demands to be satisfied and for you to compete with a billion of Chinese for that bowl of rice, guaranteed by a UN approved declaration, no less

Demand number ZERO: disallow voting or making demands by anybody with IQ of a door knob or below

[-] 1 points by oh7Eek2 (8) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

While theoretically it would be possible to institute a restriction on the franchise to people who are net tax payers, I would never support such a thing.

Yet many of the US's problems are rooted in the fact that greedy, envious people gang together to vote to take money away from those who are productive, creative members of society.

It is a puzzle, I admit. The intent of the Constitution, and of creating a representative Republic, was to place a firewall around the consuming evil of pure democracy. Unfortunately, the fire has burst through the wall, and our country is in the midst of a conflagration.

[-] 3 points by sfray (3) 3 years ago

How about: "Build direct democracies based on human rights and sustainable material cultures." DGR

[-] 3 points by PFordColsGA (3) 3 years ago

You're putting the cart before the horse.

First, identify the primary problems. Second, reach a consensus on a reasonable solution. Third, garner support for your cause. Fourth, demand change, from those in power to make it. Finally, reinforce your demands through action.

Making demands frivolously or without any ability to "punish" the target of those demands, is an exercise in futility. Take a lesson from the Montgomery Bus Boycott of 1955, or any movie where the bank robber declares he will kill a hostage every 30 minutes, if his demands are not met.

You've touched a nerve in the American society. How you go about effecting the necessary change is paramount. Its not enough to get a million people together to say "We're mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore"

As the movement gains strength and enfluence and gets a victory here and there, you can expand on the list of demands.

[-] 3 points by TapeOp (3) from Brooklyn, NY 3 years ago

Congratulations on becoming the single most effective argument against Occupy Wall Street, your list has been used repeatedly in the right-wing echo chamber to malign the movement and is actively scaring away possible supporters.

This list and the right-wing criticisms of it also supersede the "detailed proposed list", which has been evolving under consensus, in Google search results, actually making it harder to find.

[-] 3 points by JewZeus (4) 3 years ago

If these demands are too great a list for our politicians than we need new smarter STRONGER politicians, and less corporate bloggers working for (paid or brainwashed) the corporate governorship. I'll as a few.

-Outlawing corporate Oligarchy. ---------Out lining what is known as 'Liar Loans' as borderline treason given the known effects on economy and infrastructure....if you don't agree you should really look up the nature of a 'Liar Loan' and their near enslaving. Debt slavery is illegal and liar loans should be known and constitutionally recognized as equivalent.

-Outlawing Media Oligarchy. --------No corporation or financial party may own multiple media outlets in a given state, ending Media Oligarchy.

-We have the internet platform now for campaigns; outlawing corporate 'BIG MONEY' for elections so elections can be run for honest beliefs not part favoritism. Probably the single second largest problem to the Media Oligarchy.

-Deem international election funds as treason.

-New Limit On derivatives if not outlawing them completely if an alternative method can not be agreed upon

-Deem corporate governorship as a rouge subvert party and there for a criminal conspiracy of treason, wait that's right it already is. I hope that demands are met because really because this could get ugly.

-legislative observation over the scholarship and text book malpractices of all educational infrastructure.

-Legislative malpractice observation for pricing of living and educational standards in lieu of fixed market directives. Once again it already is illegal, yet not imposed; referring to a need for a constitutional outlaw of corporate and media oligarchs for, I really hope, obvious reasons.

-Ending of the second class citizen, either enforce the borders and raise the living standard wage for all employment or allow migrant workers to work with dignity and equality. Creating a flexible scholastic system for migrant workers in which they too can allow their children to achieve the American dream yet have a taxable system for which they pay into the school creating jobs for teachers. It would light up the hearts of most migrant workers to have education for their children.

-OUTLAW CORPORATE BLOGGING AND PAID BLOGGING FOR PROPAGANDA IS THE MOST DEVIOUS FORM OF PERSPECTIVE MANIPULATION.

-Create an American factory trust fund with lots of oversight. LOTS.

-Deem corporate medical insurance used for treatment of conditions caused by corporate environmental malpractice causing toxic environments as a form of economic entrapment as a form of medical insurance/treatment slavery or bondage; for example, as a father works for a chemical plant his children are ill from the environmental hazard caused by the toxicity of the factory's out put and therefor the father must continue to work at the plant to continue to receive medical insurance for his children that his employers are responsible for causing. This in turn causes the employee to be circularly dependent on the employer as is usually the case that in such an environment the children in turn when are old enough to work have brain damage or near to causing little options left but to work locally causing the system to repeat.

-Deem 401k and corporate retirement plans as un-penalize-able for leaving and shifting company's, this is due to that derivatives are pre-stated as illegal there for the 401k can not be inflated therefor not penalize-able with out being subject to the law that it is a federal crime to destroy money.

[-] 3 points by southtexan (3) 3 years ago

All. I saw some demands that were posted from the Chicago Occupy Wall Street that seemed reasonable and spot on:

These are the list of proposed demands. They will be up for vote tonight at 7pm @ 500 S Michigan Ave in front of the horse.

1.PASS HR 1489 REINSTATING GLASS-STEAGALL. – A depression era safeguard that separated the commercial lending and investment banking portions of banks. Its repeal in 1999 is considered the major cause of the global financial meltdown of 2008-2009.

  1. REPEAL BUSH TAX CUTS FOR THE WEALTHY

  2. FULLY INVESTIGATE AND PROSECUTE THE WALL STREET CRIMINALS who clearly broke the law and helped cause the 2008 financial crisis.

4.OVERTURN CITIZENS UNITED v. US. – A 2010 Supreme Court Decision which ruled that money is speech. Corporations, as legal persons, are now allowed to contribute unlimited amounts of money to campaigns in the exercise of free “speech.”

  1. PASS THE BUFFET RULE ON FAIR TAXATION, CLOSE CORPORATE TAX LOOPHOLES, PROHIBIT HIDING FUNDS OFFSHORE....

  2. GIVE THE SEC STRICTER REGULATORY POWER, STRENGTHEN THE CONSUMER PROTECTION BUREAU, AND PROVIDE ASSISTANCE FOR OWNERS OF FORECLOSED MORTGAGES WHO WERE VICTIMS OF PREDATORY LENDING.

7.TAKE STEPS TO LIMIT THE INFLUENCE OF LOBBYISTS AND ELIMINATE THE PRACTICE OF LOBBYISTS WRITING LEGISLATION.

  1. ELIMINATE RIGHT OF FORMER GOVERNMENT REGULATORS TO WORK FOR CORPORATIONS OR INDUSTRIES THEY ONCE REGULATED.

  2. ELIMINATE CORPORATE PERSONHOOD.

  3. INSIST THE FEC STAND UP FOR THE PUBLIC INTEREST IN REGULATING PRIVATE USE OF PUBLIC AIRWAVES to help ensure that political candidates ARE GIVEN EQUAL TIME for free at reasonable intervals during campaign season.

  4. REFORM CAMPAIGN FINANCE WITH THE PASSAGE OF THE FAIR ELECTIONS NOW ACT (S.750, H.R. 1404).

  5. FORGIVE STUDENT DEBT – The same institutions that gave almost $2T in bailouts and then extended $16T of loans at little to no interest for banks can surely afford to forgive the $946B of student debt currently held. Not only does this favor the 99% over the 1%, it has the practical effect of more citizens spending money on actual goods, not paying down interest.

[-] 3 points by missdewey (3) 3 years ago

I propose the following:

  1. Tax reform. Eliminate the loopholes that allow the wealthy and corporations to pay less than their fair share of taxes.

  2. More consumer protections. Cap credit card interest rates at a reasonable number (let's say 10%) so that those with large amounts of debt stand a reasonable chance of paying it off. Also, allow citizens to defer payments on credit cards for up to one year in the event that they lose their job or have a qualifying life crisis (death in the family, loss of their house, etc.) without having to pay for a credit protection service in advance.

  3. Outlaw the practice of employer discrimination on the basis of credit history or current employment status.

  4. Outlaw the practice of employers laying off employees only to hire them back as independent contracters with no benefits or job security.

  5. Raise the federal minimum wage to $10.00 per hour.

  6. Make public colleges and universities free to all tax-paying citizens. (Universities that receive no public funding may continue to charge what they like.)

  7. Pass legislation to control the cost of medical care and begin the process of transitioning to a single-payer health care system. (For-profit insurance is killing us, literally.)

  8. Protect the unions. Restore all rights to collective bargaining that have been stripped away in recent years.

  9. Extend unemployment benefits for the long-term unemployed.

  10. Pass the Obama jobs bill to help the American people in the short term.

[-] 1 points by DarkStar (43) 3 years ago

10 won't work, Clowngress just nixed the bill a few days ago.

[-] 3 points by aimlessjonah (4) 3 years ago
  1. re-instate effects of Glass-Steagal act.
  2. regulate over-the-counter derivatives market.
  3. apply Sherman anti-trust provisions to insurance companies.
  4. bust up the big banks. take commercial bank holding co. status back away from investment banks.
  5. push for single-payer universal health coverage.
  6. institute real campaign finance reform, with term limits.
  7. eliminate all direct and indirect financial benefits to candidates, political parties, and elected officials of lobbying efforts.
  8. institute meaningful immigration reform that channels immigrants into productive roles rather than marginalizing them.
  9. invest in infrastructure, green initiatives, and education
  10. raise capital gains rate to 20%, and tax dividends as ordinary income again. tax stock option executive compensation as ordinary income.
[-] 3 points by Proletariat (10) 3 years ago

I have believed in and supported the Occupy Wall Street movement from afar, from the first day. Your heart was in the right place, Lloyd, and you obviously put a lot of thought and work into this. But I don't agree with ANY of these ideas. The closest I can get is agreement on the elimination of "Free Trade" and Demand Eight. Also, NONE of these demands addresses what I understood the protest to be about: Ending greed. Let's start there.

I would begin with "Impose 1% Federal Sales Tax on all stock purchases." We have to pay state sales tax when we buy a car. Should be the same to buy part of a company. This would end the "churning" and propensity of billionaires to swap stocks on a daily basis like most of us change socks. Maybe get investors back to thinking of the stock market as a place to raise capital for businesses instead of simply a mechanism to make the rich richer.

Another idea to rein in greed: Impose more stringent and severe rules against fraud and stock manipulation, then actually ARREST somebody. The govt. has no problem rounding up protesters for stepping off the sidewalk, but they don't have time to go get guys like Madoff? (And trust me, there are a LOT more like Madoff around).

Another idea - set a cap on executive salaries. Follow a variation on the Ben and Jerry's concept: For example - a CEO cannot earn more than 100 times the salary of a company's lowest-paid employee. Not only reins in the obscene salaries for execs, also gives them an incentive to increase salaries of lower-paid employees. (Example: If floor sweeper earns $15,000/yr, CEO gets $1.5 million. If CEO wants raise to $2 million, floor sweepers get raise to $20,000). This way, as the conservatives like to say, "a rising tide lifts all boats." Good way to harness greed for good.

And if CEO gets stocks in lieu of pay, the lowest paid employees get the same ratio of stocks.

And "free trade" has to end. American-based companies should no longer be allowed to use money earned from and off the backs of Americans, only to reinvest that money in factories overseas. U.S. companies must manufacture here, or move their headquarters overseas and be banned from doing business in the U.S. See how they like operating under CHINA's rules!

Just some ideas, but the key message has to be this:

END THE GREED!!!

[-] 1 points by DarkStar (43) 3 years ago

There is more sense in a single paragraph's worth of your ideas than the entire list. I'd add that the cap on exec. salaries should be done to politicians - they get paid the computed average American wage and NO MORE.

[-] 3 points by rmmo (262) 3 years ago

This posting above is just some outsider comment, not a real demand by Occupy Wall Street. Although Occupy Wall Street has no list of demands yet. I have some suggestions. What should be on the list is the massive "wealth redistribution" that has gone on for the last 30 years. With the decline of unions and the lowering of the marginal tax rates from 90% in 1950's to 36% now, all of the nation's wealth has been paid out at the top to the corporate executives.

The middle class spends their wealth on goods/services and the corporations have redistributed their wealth by paying their profits all out to the executives and shareholders. Middle class wages have stagnated for 30 years while executive wages have gone up 256% in since 1980. Even last year executive compensation went up another 11%. The top 1% now controls over 42% of the entire nation's wealth. We have not seen numbers like this since the great depression. The top 10% controls 70% of the entire nation's wealth. All of our nation's wealth has been redistributed into the hands of the few.

The middle class was roped into replacing wages with easy credit. So instead of paying people living wages, corporations fooled us into thinking we were doing well and could afford things by giving us easy credit instead of wages. Instead of having wages to buy t.v.'s, furniture, etc. we were given easy loans. So the middle class became a debtor class. There used to be a tax disincentive to paying out all of corporate profits at the top because in the 1950's income was taxed at 90% over a certain amount money and now that tax disincentive has disappeared. In 1950's the highest marginal tax rate was 90%. In 1960-1970's it was 70%. In 1980's it dropped to 49%. In 1990's dropped to 39%. Under George Bush it dropped to a mere 36%. We have had over 30 years of massive tax cuts for the wealthy.

There is now no tax disincentive to paying out all of the corporate wealth at the top. And there is no employee bargaining power because now less than 12% of all of our jobs are unionized. Corporate profits are at an all time high, healthcare company profits are at an all time high, and oil profits are at an all time high. We don't have a healthcare crisis we have a healthcare company profit-taking crisis that no politician will doing anything about. Healthcare and oil companies have enjoyed a decade of record profits while we have had a decade of massive premiums for little coverage and a decade of outrageous gas prices.

The problems are: 1) deregulation of the banks by the Republican-controlled congress in 1999; 2) hedge funds are exempt from regulation; 3) tax system no longer has a disincentive against paying outrageous executive salaries (highest marginal tax rate has dropped from 90% to 36%); 4) commodities market is exempt from regulation (Republican-controlled Congress exempted it in the Commodities Future Modernization act of 2000); 5) the Supreme Court has ruled that corporations can spend unlimited funds in campaign elections (thus politicians on both sides favor the wealthy/corporations) and 6) the rise of corporate/billionaire propaganda media "news." Because of the need to raise massive sums in politics today, we no longer have a party that represents the people. The Democrats have to chase the corporate and big money donors too.

What can we do about this: 1) re-instate Glass-Steagall Act regulating the banks; 2) regulate hedge funds and the commodities market (because the commodities market is not regulated speculation has caused prices for commodities to go through the roof); 3) get rid of the money in politics (have federally funded elections with clear limits on spending and no outside groups allowed to have ads); 4) get rid of 1980's laws stating that corporations' only duty is to maximize shareholder profits; and 5) regulate "news" channels and newspapers (no more "slanted opinion news" masquerading as hard news) and reinstitute the fairness doctrine across all news outlets to ensure that both sides get equal time.

Corporations should have duties to society and to their workers too. They should have to balance their duties to maximize shareholder profits against their reinstated duties to their employees and to society. The laws saying that corporations' only duty is to maximize shareholder profits have led to the destruction of long-term business plans and care for their workers and have created short-term profit monsters at the expense of workers and society.

[-] 3 points by Uguysarenuts (270) 3 years ago

What about passing legislation that there will be no more smurf movies while we are at it?

[-] 3 points by Skysthelimit00 (6) 3 years ago

Wow I so much want to support this cause and I truly believe many "mainstream" people do but this is just absurd. You guys are terrible at PR . Half the videos you post on your site have young people comparing America to Nazi Germany and screaming at police like they just killed your family off. Get a grip and focus a bit stop acting like spoiled brats. Id like to see one rational person in some of these news feeds who doesnt wreak of entitlement.... People are just looking for reasons to support this cause and I fear you guys are doing a great job of keeping them from doing so.

[-] 3 points by onedadgo (4) 3 years ago

Yeah, I don't think so. How about one simple demand from us. Read Henry Hazlitt's "Economics In One Lesson".

You are proposing slavery. Demanding free healthcare and free education requires that someone is forced to work for you for free. Do you really want to espouse that?

[-] 2 points by vwhead (5) 3 years ago

News Flash - we already have free healthcare. Emergency rooms are "not permitted to deny care to anyone due to race, ethnicity, gender or ability to pay". The LOGIC is that people get care BEFORE it becomes an emergency - for example; a simple doctors visit for a tooth ache to get antibiotics instead of allowing it to become full blown blood poisoning. ER visits from the poor cause unpaid bills, thus higher insurance rates for you and me. Plus, this Healthcare Bill reigns in unethical practices by Corporate Healthcare Providers such as dropping someone if they become sick, or denying coverage for an existing condition. 4 mIllion children now have healthcare that never had it before. These are bad things somehow? WWJD? lol

[-] 0 points by oh7Eek2 (8) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

And that rule is part of what makes healthcare so expensive.

When you try to destroy the relationship between right and responsibility, you will fail. But what you will do is create a feedback loop that will grow until the system is either destroyed, or it crashes, then reverts to its natural state.

What is strange is that you admit this, but then want to make the problem much worse, and much bigger.

Weird!

[-] 3 points by sunflower (7) 3 years ago

Why not demand a list whereupon the whole bottom 99% can agree upon?

Or like Dennis Kucinich said it: "It is not about left or right. It is about right or wrong. It is about up (1%) or down (99%)."

First we have to take back democracy and accountability. I think if we want to slaughter the corporate beast ALL 99% should converge and focus on a couple of simple, but important, issues. The left and right paradigm is now not helpful in finding ways out of this mess. And most importantly it divides us and does not break the back of the corrupted camel.

Ralph Nader suggested the following list of four demands, whereupon a coalition can be based upon:

1) Bring our troops home.

2) Repeal of the patriot act. (and restore descent elections)

3) No deficit spending for reckless adventurism by the government

4) Restore the monetary powers to congress (end or audit the FED )

The video can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLdcB0ln9t8

It also features the last sincere and honest politicians on Capitol Hill: Dennis Kucinich (D Ohio) and Ron Paul (R Texas). They have been friends for decades, and cooperate politically against the corrupted establishment, despite they are diametrically positioned in the left-right paradigm.

Their friendship should be an example for us! United we stand!

For the ones who want to be inspired by their friendship, see: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=kucinich+and+paul&aq=f

Personally I think the following issues are also important to address or interesting to consider:

5) Accountability and prosecution of the crimes on Wall street and Washington DC

6) Disentanglement of big business and campain contributions

7) Blockade the revolving doors between the regulatory bodies and big business

8) Find a way to discourage lobbying, perhaps through taxing

9) National Investment program in Green energy, Education and infrastructure (instead of wars, bail outs and socialism for the rich)

I suggest to get Nader, Kucinich & Paul to New York and form a coalition of the bottom 99%. As now the media attention rises, also the scrutiny on your message increases. Pick a clear and bold goal!

[-] 2 points by Uguysarenuts (270) 3 years ago

Here's an actual sensible list!

[-] 1 points by DarkStar (43) 3 years ago

YES! Somebody GETS it!

This list makes ten times the sense and might actually be doable!

[-] 0 points by goatdude (13) 3 years ago

TARP yields a $20B profit. Check your facts

[-] 3 points by teedee (11) 3 years ago

Let's now look at demand six and demand seven. One trillion in infrastructure and one trillion in ecological restoration. First I wonder why one trillion and not two or three trillion. Hell, lett's go for 10 trillion for each. After all, once we get demand eleven, all debt being wiped out, we might as well borrow a hundred ga zillion dollars. Whoopee!

[-] 3 points by teedee (11) 3 years ago

Lets look at demand four, for fun. "Free College Education" So does that mean all professors, administrators and other college employees must work for free, with donated books and computers and the use of donated buildings. Is that how it is "free". Of course, not so free to the working-for-less-than-a working-wage professors. Or by "free" do you mean free to the students but paid for by others. Not exactly free either because someone is then paying for it. The notion of "free" needs a lot more thinking that we see here.

[-] 2 points by TheDailyCannibal (12) 3 years ago

The governmant can print the money and spend it on tuitions not war. And Starbucks will be free too. Machiattos for the people!

[-] 2 points by ImhotepIsInvisible (52) 3 years ago

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! I could KISS you right now...I hate when people talk about federal programs like they're free. Not saying they're bad, just saying they ain't free.

[-] 2 points by DrN (3) 3 years ago

they are bad

[-] 0 points by ImhotepIsInvisible (52) 3 years ago

and you're an idiot. Go drown yourself.

[-] 1 points by Esposito (173) 3 years ago

Wow pretty violent.

[-] 1 points by DarkStar (43) 3 years ago

No more than the ooga-booga gun-toters.

[-] 0 points by Esposito (173) 3 years ago

What's that?

[-] 1 points by DarkStar (43) 3 years ago

If you think 'go drown yourself' is 'violent'...go lurk on a conservatard forum where they fantasize about "shooting hippies like skeet", among other things.

[-] 0 points by Esposito (173) 3 years ago

Why are you so hateful?

[-] 1 points by DarkStar (43) 3 years ago

Why are you too d@mn lazy to go see that's what they're actually saying?

[-] 1 points by powertothepeople (1264) 3 years ago

CCNY was free at one time. Then it was very low cost. I don't know how low cost it is now. It was never a federal program though, it was local.

[-] 1 points by JonathanKlondowski (31) from Bangor, ME 3 years ago

This is the only "bill" these halfwits have ever even seen, that is the only reason they are asking for it. They wanted to ask for free "weed" but they thought that might make them look even stupider then they do now.

[-] 3 points by julespeg (5) 3 years ago

Completely ridiculous, overblown, and Idealistic. Narrow it down to a soundbite. Have you ever heard of Frank Lunts, the Republican strategist? He is the one responsible for every buzzword/ soundbite that comes out of the right. We need thst. Concise messaging.

[-] 3 points by dick (26) 3 years ago

I agree. The movement needs something catchy, like "fight the smears."

[-] 0 points by MidasRex (7) 3 years ago

Ooh, ooh - how about "hope and change"?

[-] 1 points by DarkStar (43) 3 years ago

...from someone who'd never fought the right-wingers on any real level, voted 'present' all the time, has all the tactical finesse of a runaway bulldozer, and failed to make good on basically ANY of his big promises once elected?

Methinks it's time for a new face and a new phrase.

[-] 0 points by Jessie (4) 3 years ago

That’s been tried – now all we can do is change to something else, It’s our only HOPE!

[-] 0 points by LloydJHart (190) from Vineyard Haven, MA 3 years ago

Why is that all you can understand is a sound bite? I think thats a sign of lead poisoning.

[-] 3 points by Tearanny (3) 3 years ago

While I can get behind a few of the ideas (Especially getting rid of Credit agencies, Credit is a Make believe thing anyway!!). But this is basically Demands that setup a One World Currency, One world Government. This is EXACTLY what the Elite want. More concentrated seat of power. This smells fishy to me.

[-] 1 points by dick (26) 3 years ago

Funny how that works, isn't it? The same goes for the debt forgiveness. The most debt is held by the wealthy, not the poor. (Seriously, which bank gives loans to the poor?) They would love to see their debts forgiven, considering they're making the payments just fine.

[-] 0 points by MidasRex (7) 3 years ago

It's quite clear that you guys know all about 'make believe'.

[-] 3 points by Gayvet (3) 3 years ago

I have been supporting "Occupy" but as I awaken this morning to this long list of demands I am very skeptical. Open borders? REALLY? Our system is already over burdened by illegal aliens. A living wage "regardless of employment?" Seriously? I have been working since I was 11, there's always some way to make money. You need to keep it at preventing the wealthy from running our Government. We need a CLEAR CUT message and you are throwing too many issues into the pot and muddying the waters. I will not support a long list of rambling. This is no better than politicians throwing in "pork" on a major bill in order to get his own personal agenda passed.

[-] 3 points by 1DemandLibertyandFreedom (8) 3 years ago

RE Demand one: Tariffs will increase the cost of goods for consumers, and use the strong arm of the government to protect businesses that would otherwise fail. AS for the minimum wage being set to $20 per hour, most small business would not be able to hire people, margins are too low to be able to pay workers $20 per hour.

RE Demand two: The government is doing such a great job at colluding with Big Business, and you want them to take control of Healthcare so they can monopolize it instead???

RE Demand three: This kind of thinking goes against everything that is American. I suggest you build a hut, sharpen a spear, and move to an isolated location so you can guarantee your own standard of living. For me, I will never rely on the government to house and feed me. I’d go with my first suggestion before that ever happened.

RE Demand four: The more power the government has, the more collusion that will continue between the banks and big business. These demands are asking for more government intervention. Why were our grandparents and parents able to pay for college by simply working every summer? The answer is, the government wasn't in the college loan and aid business, which has been the main reason education cost have skyrocketed. If the government wasn't in the College Business, prices would come down to what students could afford, or they would go out of business.

RE Demand five: Walk, and where I suppose we could agree, stop exploiting Middle Eastern and African Nations resources, and utilize our own. I’m all for non-fossil fuel alternatives, but BIG GOV and BIG BIZ, keep people with good ideas out of the game. Electric cars have been around for 50 years, you’d think we’d be further then a starting price of $30k.

RE Demand six: You want Big Gov to have the FED print more money to de-value the money in your pocket? Why not let local communities invest in their own projects, instead of sending their tax dollars to Washington, then waiting for BIG Gov to pay for these projects?

RE Demand seven: Again, the FED printing this money de-value’s the money in your pocket. Why not sue BIG Business when they screw up the environment, allow local communities to do so. We have enough attorneys and scientist to prove where the pollution is coming from, to get solid lawsuits against the polluters.

RE Demand eight: Why not let the people of a community shut down businesses that discriminate, and run them out of town? Why give the government more policing power?

RE Demand nine: Sure, but we shouldn’t give benefits and welfare to those who don’t participate, in a local community.

RE Demand ten: Hallelujah! I’m all for this, I just don’t want the FED GOV in control of it!

RE Demand eleven: The US should only be responsible for the US, we have no business involving ourselves in other peoples debt across the world. But I guess if they can forgive the Mega-Banks for their debt, they should also forgive the consumers. It is a broken system, and needs to be decentralized, and by decentralized; I mean get the government out of it! Allow for competing currencies and barter trading.

RE Demand twelve: I hate them, but again I don’t want the government telling me I have to give credit to someone who is a bad risk, and puts my business in jeopardy.

RE Demand thirteen: I’m ok with workers forming Unions, but if I don’t want to join, then I think it should not prohibit me from being employed at a company.

RE final statement: these demands will bankrupt every small business in America. I thought you were against BIG BANKS, BIG BUSINESS, and BIG GOVERNMENT COLLUSION with the TWO? Your demands are asking for BIGGER GOVERNMENT and that will result in tyranny!

[-] -2 points by LloydJHart (190) from Vineyard Haven, MA 3 years ago

You far too orthodox libertarian for this protest and unless you learn to compromise with the left wing social living wage agenda you will never catch speed with this protest movement. I suggest you do some reading about the American labor battles that created the living wage and made the American living standard highest in the world albeit the most ecologically damaging standard of living. Of course we built our society with the wrong energy source.

[-] 2 points by 1DemandLibertyandFreedom (8) 3 years ago

I'm too libertarian to be in the 99%??? I thought this movement was about The 99% who will no longer tolerate the greed and corruption of the 1%? We can both agree that bailouts for wall street need to stop and that Gov and Corporate collusion needs to be eliminated. Heck I think we agree that we need to END all the wars... So how can't we work together on those stated issues? If you agreed to those issues which we agree as your demands, you could increase your movement by millions. Sounds like a WIN, what do you think?

[-] 2 points by 1DemandLibertyandFreedom (8) 3 years ago

I would recommend you read The Law by Frederic Bastiat. It's short and concise.

Fears of working in unsafe and unsanitary conditions for low pay drove the creation of the modern labor movement. Legislators who represented large populations of factory workers wanted a regulatory system that protected workers rights (and fueled organized labor political contributions).

So now it costs so much to buy an American-made auto that we have to artificially prop these companies up with billions of taxpayer investment. We don’t have nearly enough electric power to meet the demands of a technology-fueled society, and it would take years to navigate the regulatory maze to get power plants built. We all saw what happened when Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac failed, the consequence of legislators using their power to give something to those who could not otherwise afford it.

[-] 1 points by actiasluna (23) 3 years ago

um.. i'm pretty sure that 99% of america isn't socialist.

[-] 1 points by DarkStar (43) 3 years ago

99% of America has no idea what 'socialist' actually means, because they were spoonfed a barftastically WRONG definition from shout radio or a blog.

[-] 0 points by JonathanKlondowski (31) from Bangor, ME 3 years ago

Um, do you even know how to write? What do you think will happen to the value of a $20 an hour wage if EVERYONE is getting it? I'm sure that you're an idiot so I'll explain it to you.

$20 and hour will end up being POVERTY, and EVERYONE WILL BE IN POVERTY. You meathead.

[-] 0 points by LloydJHart (190) from Vineyard Haven, MA 3 years ago

Which came first the consumer with money in their pocket or the consumer product.

[-] 2 points by oh7Eek2 (8) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

Keep it simple. Suppose you do just that: raise the minimum wage to 20$ an hour.

That means all those people running around your local MacDonalds will now have to be paid $20 an hour. To pay that, MacDonalds will have to raise the cost of their food. So, the MacDonalds' employee gets off work, goes around to the front of the counter to spend all their new found wealth and discovers . . . that $20 buys slightly less than what $7.50 did when $7.50 was the minimum wage.

Artificially raising wages will simply raise costs accordingly. You, and your ilk, simply do not have a clue as to what money is.

[-] 2 points by JonathanKlondowski (31) from Bangor, ME 3 years ago

Oh, goodie, here we go spanky.

And how do you supose that the consumer got their money? Maybe a JOB (or in your case a handout from your mommy)?

That consumer WORKED for the money and chose where to spend that money (unless we are talking about a government enforced monopoly like the current president is trying to implement on many fronts).

Get a clue.

[-] 1 points by DarkStar (43) 3 years ago

Which came first, stupidity or Lloyd?

[-] 3 points by EddieWillers (5) from Columbus, OH 3 years ago

I recommend a discussion thread for each of these topics discussing their merits. I am with in calling out the problems we are facing as a nation and I love the peaceful nature of your protests, but see the solutions very differently. I wish you all well. Be safe!

[-] 3 points by dick (26) 3 years ago

Form a committee! Yes!!!

[-] 3 points by AlanO (52) 3 years ago

Is this list of demands "official" from the protesters on Wall Street?

[-] -1 points by LloydJHart (190) from Vineyard Haven, MA 3 years ago

No, this is not official but could act as a good template to start with.

[-] 3 points by actiasluna (23) 3 years ago

no. no it couldn't. believe me, your 'template' will kill the movement before it can get anywhere.

[-] 2 points by Gallifrey (2) from Islip, NY 2 years ago

I agree this list is mostly ridiculous, but shame on anyone who responded to Demand Eight with "everyone in America already has equal rights".

When it becomes illegal in all 50 states to fire someone from their job based solely on their sexual orientation or gender identity - both scientifically demonstrated to be innate biological qualities - call me up.

[-] 2 points by montyboy01 (4) 2 years ago

How about you occupy a job...the country needs ditch diggers and burger flippers, too!

[-] 2 points by squibby (2) 3 years ago

Who ever wrote these demands is a fool. Person A buys a home with a huge mortgage and me debt is immediately wiped off. Person B buys a home a month later and has a huge mortage. Unfair and plain stupid. Secondly, if all the demands were met, you would have hyperinflation. I think the Occupy Wall Street movement is misguided by people who have no idea. What they should be protesting about is taxes being used to prop up the rich with the bailouts and subsequent bonuses.

[-] 2 points by BigWil (2) 3 years ago

This marxist list of bullshit is destroying the credibility of the movement. You need to purge it from your forum and end any further damage. On second though replace it with the real "proposed" list of demands which the media has been ignoring since this one ruffles so many more feathers. I copied the other one here: http://www.hyperconx.com/wils-stuff/occupywallstreet_pr.html

[-] 2 points by Brett (2) 3 years ago

Demand suggestion: Cap and peg CEO pay to a suitable multiplier of the average wage with a strict bonus system based on company performance. Also cap severance package.

Demand suggestion: Increase taxes for the super rich, close tax loop holes and increase tax free threshold / low taxes for the poor (note many super rich people have recently pledged support for this).

Comment - Gap between rich and poor was a key driver for the recent UK riots and is a serious growing socioeconomic problem in most countries.

[-] 2 points by MPolo (18) 3 years ago

I could support 1-7. Good draft. Maybe immigration should actually be closed until the jobs materialize though. I work overseas as an American most of the time. No other country that I know of even pretend to extend rights to what they call "guest workers".

Immigrants to America today do not relinquish citizenship to their "home" countries. They become dual citizens. America is just a place to make money for these workers. They send/remit US dollars back home, taking money out of our country. They have no more loyalty to America than I do to China when I am working over there...Food for thought.

[-] 2 points by mikeband (20) from Klamath Falls, OR 3 years ago

This is truly ridiculous and looks like it was written by tea baggers to discredit OWS. It's best to respond that we have no official list and then vote only for those candidates who will pledge to GET CORPORATE MONEY OUT OF POLITICS AND LIMIT CORPORATE INFLUENCE OVER GOVERNMENT.

[-] 2 points by ericw (3) from San Francisco, CA 3 years ago

Everyone has lost sight of the point. The whole reason to "occupy wall street" isn't to make them pay more tax, and it's not for all your personal reasons, it's to get their money out of the government! This would end most government corruption.

Let the rich stay rich if they're successful and good at what they do, but they (the corporations/the rich) should not be allowed to give any sort of incentives, rewards, prizes, or anything at all to our congress upon voting for or against a bill.

Corporations are the cause for government corruption in many ways, mostly being that they'll pay off senators and congressman to pass things that are bad for our economy and government but helpful to the corporations as well as paying them to deny things that are bad for the corporations (aka budgets and cuts that include cutting funding to the corporation itself, but necessary for our economy to return to normal).

[-] 2 points by CamilleChristie (4) from East Hampton, CT 3 years ago

Wanted to point out that this 'List of Demands' is NOT written by anyone closely involved with Occupy Wall Street for starters, secondly it's completely ridiculous and is a detriment to our movement because main stream media has been touting it as our official list of demands.

WE DO NOT HAVE A LIST OF DEMANDS!!! And there is a disclaimer at the top of the page now, which many are still missing for some reason.

Please don't waste time on this people... Instead, lend a hand at an Occupy protest near you, help educate people who might be misinformed thanks to main stream bullshit reporting.

I can tell there are many great minds monitoring things here.... let's put our heads together and come up with viable solutions, some would serve as temporary solutions in order to work on the permanent fix/solution.

We honestly CAN make a difference.... let's work collectively without rancor.

Bless each and every one of you!!

[-] 2 points by jahbreeze (4) 3 years ago

I believe that there is only ONE demand. That everybody have an opportunity to participate and be heard be their government. That means, no lobbyists, no special interest groups, an equal platform for every single voice. An opportunity for consensus and compromise as equals.

[-] 2 points by 30west (2) 3 years ago

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. When compounded with an inability to connect the dots, especially those pesky historical and economic ones, you end up with> Occupy Wall Street. Enjoy your urban camping adventure while I and the rest of my small group of 1%'ers produce the goods, services, and intellectual property that you consume without any thought. Gotta go now, have to work to pay for your ... whatever! cheers, 30west

[-] 2 points by WorseThanTheTeaParty (2) 3 years ago

Demand fourteen: Everyone gets a free teddy bear.

Demand fifteen: Allow all workers to wear Snuggies to work

Demand sixteen: Sell Nebraska to Canada to fund free dreadlocks for everyone

Demand seventeen: Through Santa Claus in jail for not obeying workers rights

Anything else you guys want to throw on here?... I'm a liberal, but I've got to say you're making the Tea Party look sane...

[-] 1 points by DarkStar (43) 3 years ago

Even worse, think of the 2012 elections. I used to be laughing at the right-wing candidates like Wrongney and Falin...until I started looking at what the left was likely to come up with.

I'm not laughing anymore. 'Pathetic' is an understatement.

[-] 0 points by cyal8r (1) from Clarksville, TN 3 years ago

I would change demand fifteen to the new "Forever Lazy" it's the onesie version of the snuggie with a handy butt flap.

[-] 2 points by isentil (2) 3 years ago

Lloyd J Hart here MUST be joking! A living wage for all regardless of unemployment, added with an open border policy will turn America into the slums of the world in a new york minute.

This is horrible, horrible, horrible! I would hope that if this is proposed in GA, that all but the person proposing it throw a Block. This is sickening!

Oh and Lloyd, the right-wing propaganda machine's networks LOVE your proposal. Thanks for making us all look like idiots.

[-] 2 points by DoctorLogic (2) from New York, NY 3 years ago

I have one- stop spending US tax dollars to fund the education of foreign-born PhD students and then deporting them against their will, despite being married to a US citizen and desperately having petitioned to remain with their spouse/partner. Allow them to stay and contribute meaningfully to the US economy and society. Stop the brain drain!

[-] 2 points by pat1944 (3) 3 years ago

Lloyd, I think it was well thought out and I'm hoping those 1 percenters realize that a 2 class system of, the rich and those that serve the rich, will always have the same end result.

I can't really agree with forgiving all debt (especially the foreign debt the Republicans ran up over the last 30 years) and the debt of those irresponsible persons that just cannot help themselves to have the latest crap or gizmo or model vehicle, or those that decided to live well beyond their means when purchasing a home. I suggest we force those Lenders to refinance every one of those home loans at 1 percent interest rate over a 40 or 50 year term. I belive that would lower the monthly payments enough that a responsible person working 40 hours a week can afford. For those who could show that they were able to make their monthly payments and subsequently lost their job should be given debt deferrment until a job can be found or provided under a major government bail out / jobs program (at least $10 trillion) of the people. Those that sill cannot afford those terms probably should not have purchased a home in the first place.

I think the rich will never voluntarily agree to being fairly taxed which should be at around 75% rate. I foresee the Forbes' list of the richest 500 Americans eventually becoming a "hit list".

I think those responsible for the collapse of the world economies should be arrested and all of their assets seized and returned to the treasury.

Finally, I think Obama/Biden should resign as president/vice president and Alan Greyson/Dennis Kucinich should be appointed for the next 8 years to undo every peice of legislation enacted under Bush/ Cheney, every appointment terminated (including those to the supreme court), and an immediate end to war and occupation of foreign nations. Finally, Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and the rest of the Bush/Cheney bunch should be tried for war crimes and hung with the same rope they used on Saddam.

[-] 2 points by OccupyWST (2) 3 years ago

We Dont Need "Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live."

If more people are coming in WE WILL HAVE NO JOBS LEFT FOR US who are already un-employed...

No New Green Cards Should be issued.. FUCK OFF if you dont agree... i dont give a damn about such protest if you bringing in people from out to our country.....

[-] 2 points by Scott (6) 3 years ago

theRevolutionCenter.com

I am distressed to see that my demand has not been included in the “Proposed List Of Demands For Occupy Wall St Movement.”

What I want is for an investigation to be instigated, and charges leveled at the bankers and low lives on Wall Street that caused the global crash we are still experiencing.

To date: No one has been charged for the largest theft ever perpetrated against mankind. Am I the only one who sees this as a "crime against humanity?"

[-] 2 points by DimitarNaydenov (3) 3 years ago

Deleting my comment won't make you right. Instead it goes to show that you are no different than China and North Korea.

[-] 2 points by Citizen (4) 3 years ago

I was happy to finally see the uprising in America, but when I came to this site, I was shocked at this list. I do not believe that this list of demands, suggested demands, or whatever one may choose to call it, is what most Americans desiring to participate believes the "Occupy Wall Street" Protest is about. Erase "All" debt? Outlaw credit reporting agencies? Open all migration borders? In other words, a "free-for-all'? The extreme ideology represented in this list of demands veers far from the main focus of most supporters are advocating. While the premise of an American uprising may be a good idea, the current agenda represented here rings more of a personal matter than a public one. The demonstrated lack of foresight is alarming and calls for serious rational reform. Otherwise, the power of the "understood" collective effort will prove to be fleeting. Perhaps, this post is a prank aimed to undermine the efforts of the "Occupy Wall Street" movement. I can see that those who desire to disband the organization for political reform will stop at nothing to prevent such a reform from ever happening.

[-] 2 points by mbl462 (2) 3 years ago

I do hope this is a rough draft; some of the ideas are good. Others belong in a fantasy world...Hell I would love all my college paid for and debt wiped clean. Not going to happen. For the most part these demands show no economic, political or social awareness and are flat out asinine. While I am on the fence about this movement, I would like to see change, this is not going to get anything accomplished, go back and try again come forth with a well worded coherent and though out proposal, there is world wide attention on this movement, don’t squander and belittle it with poorly thought out demands.

[-] 2 points by Citizen (4) 3 years ago

I was happy to finally see the uprising in America, but when I came to this site, I was shocked and disappointed. I do not believe that the list of demands, suggested demands, or whatever one may choose to call it, is what most Americans desiring to participate believes the "Occupy Wall Street" Protest is about. Erase "All" debt? Outlaw credit reporting agencies? Open all migration borders? In other words, a "free-for-all'? The extreme ideology represented in this list of demands veers far from the main focus of most supporters are advocating. While the premise of an American uprising may be a good idea, the current agenda represented here rings more of a personal matter than a public one. The demonstrated lack of foresight is alarming and calls for serious rational reform. Otherwise, the power of the "understood" collective effort will prove to be fleeting.

[-] 2 points by bozotheclown (2) 3 years ago

Whoever wrote these demands must be on funny mushrooms or a communist sympathizer. The real men who risked everything to ensure the First Amendment protects sillyness like this must be rolling in their graves. Bye the way, our Progessive President and his far left liberal allies in Congress have been milking the Wall Street money train forever, as has been their Republican opposition. Perhaps you should be in D.C. telling those knuckleheads to get their act together. The best thing about this country, is that thousands have died and sacrified so you can say anything regardless of how stupid it is. Let see if you will still be in NYCity when it hits 20 degress and the snow is falling.

[-] 1 points by DarkStar (43) 3 years ago

"Let see if you will still be in NYCity when it hits 20 degress and the snow is falling."

There are bets on wingnut sites as to how long these sadsacks will last when the mercury goes below freezing. I'm betting on less than a week, myself.

[-] 2 points by EvolOne (2) 3 years ago

Actually this whole consensus thing is frustrating, stifling and stymieing the great positive energy in the mass of disaffected youth. You could have 5 times as many ppl, if you said find your important issue, become and expert and make an action plan to make it happen, and we all report back to the group via GA. Calling Mises.org an irresponsible news agency is rather shortsighted, after all, that agency is anti-establishment/pro freedom/pro liberty and has been supporting the cause of freedom in economics since inception. Their main thing is to end the Federal Reserve. Is that not a common goal?

[-] 2 points by pdmhoops (2) 3 years ago

Too many demands. First we need campaign finance reform so that our government will no longer be controlled by the rich. Second, we need to roll back the Reagn tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, when he reduced the rate for the wealthiest Americans from 74% to 28%. We currently have 412 BILLIONAIRES in America, what we need is to share this wealth for creating new jobs, providing healthcare and for providing our young with a quality education. This is not a Republican versus Democratic issue, this is truly an issue of we the 99% against the super wealthy who would effectively enslave us and our children. Now is the time for action. Stand up with the brave and patriotic supporters of the Occupy movement. Take back our country so that our children and their children will have a chance for a quality future. Talk to your neighbors, friends, and co-workers. Education will never be obtained from a corporate news broadcast. Occupiers everywhere, know in your hearts how proud we are of you. We recognize your bravery and your patriotism. YOU are our hope, our children's hope. We love you.

[-] 2 points by JustinC (2) 3 years ago

If we can bring both parties together, the Middle Class has a chance of survival. If we can't, then the new aristocracy will win.

A lot of these demands are excellent long-term goals. In the short term, they're laughably divisive and will only hurt the cause. Here are better options:

  • A minimum wage of $11 in NYC would be a more rational and achievable place to start! This figure would likely need to leave room for flexibility at the state level to account for differing cost-of-living for different areas. It may be lower in poorer states, but would still be a dramatic improvement.

-Completely erasing all debt worldwide is infeasible, and again will turn off the middle-American voters we so desperately need in our cause. Better to eliminate all college loan debt instead! It will be difficult, but it may be achievable.

-Creating a universal health care system and a universal education system is great! However, completely eliminating all private options is again infeasible, and maybe even counter-productive as an immediate goal. It's more likely that we can have a great public system with additional private options. This is America. We can put reigns on capitalism. We can't likely destroy it.

-Outlawing credit reporting agencies is just a bad idea, period. It would hurt all borrowers, not just the irresponsible ones.

-Completely open borders is again infeasible, not politically achievable and most likely, counter-productive. We need to let more foreign workers in so we can legally and responsibly fill demand, but we can't completely open the borders and take away the paper trail of human migration. That would be an irresponsible demand. Allowing a reasonable number of immigrant workers in and making sure they get paid appropriate wages? That would be a great step.

This kind of college-campus rhetoric can't be part of the cause. When we make our demands irrational and unreasonable we only alienate the everyday Americans we need on our side. Let's get real and leave the most granola-headed and utopian demands behind.

Cut this list in half, and we've got the start of a real workable agenda!

[-] 2 points by OsirisDarkstone (5) from Tucson, AZ 3 years ago

Demand eight: More pie-in-the-sky stuff. There is already an Equal Protection Clause in the Constitution that supposedly grants equal protections in connection with government and State action, but it has been abused by Courts since the late 1800s. A proposed Equal Rights Amendment failed in the 1980s. Additional Amendments addressing these social issues would only cause more court cases and more confusing, judicial rulings that would still favor those people with the economic resources to game the legal system. The country simply needs to enforce the laws and regulations that are currently on the books.

Demand nine: If you are pro-illegal immigration, then you will love this one. I am anti-illegal immigration and I believe in national sovereignty, so I do not agree with this Demand either. I do agree that people should be able to travel, work and live wherever they want, but it shouldn't be an unfettered right to do anything one wants to do. I can't move to another country and expect to do whatever I want to do.

Demand ten: I agree that our election system is corrupt, but international elections are no better and in many cases, worse. I do believe that there should be a paper receipt for all votes that can be manually reviewed in case of any issues.

Demand eleven: I would love for all my student loans to be wiped off of the books, but wiping this debt out would not solve the problem. Legit debts need to be paid. Otherwise, wiping these debts out would simply create hyperinflation. Food isn't going to magically appear on your table. Your kids' clothes aren't going to magically sprout from a cottonseed. Gas isn't going to magically appear in your tank. Your cell phone and Internet bills will not pay themselves. If the economy goes into hyperinflation, most of these things will either disappear or become in very short supply very quickly. However, I do AGREE that all fraudulent debts and instruments need to be canceled and the originators of these instruments need to be criminally and civilly tried in Court.

Demand twelve: I don't really use credit anymore, but I do understand that some people need it to build businesses. I wouldn't outlaw credit reporting agencies, but I would curtail some of these agencies' powers.

Demand thirteen: What does this have to do with 99%? I'm not in a union and have never really wanted to be in a union. I don't have a desire to pay someone money for the "right" to negotiate on my behalf. It sounds like the mob to me. Union membership may be important to some, but it is an irrelevant issue to me and when I hear people pushing it as a major issue, then I know it's really a political issue!

There are a couple of decent points in those demands, but a majority of them are as unrealistic as me swimming to the Moon.

I bet many of these folks protesting and occupying these locations are great people who have the best intentions. However, I am reminded of that old statement about the pavement on the road to Hell. Sometimes when I write these blog articles, I hope I am wrong about my statements and this is one of those times! But....

At the end of the day, it seems like the anger in the streets has been (or will be) co-opted by the professional revolutionaries and all of their affiliates of the extreme progressive agenda.

[-] 2 points by OsirisDarkstone (5) from Tucson, AZ 3 years ago

http://djosiris.blogspot.com Where is the demand for the repeal of the PATRIOT Act? What about ending the international wars of aggression? What about ending the opium trade in Afghanistan? What about ending the Presidential-ordered killings of US citizens without a court hearing and due process? What about actually demanding criminal accountability on Wall Street (as the name of the group might imply) and in other financial arenas? Where is the demand for the disposition of the bankers' stolen loot and gains over the years? What about the end of warrantless wiretapping and spying by the government and telecoms? What about an end to the Federal Reserve? What about the nexus and conflict between former government regulators receiving lucrative private sector jobsfrom the very companies/industries they were regulating? What about the end of torture?

[-] 1 points by DarkStar (43) 3 years ago

Nowhere.

And there is yet another problem with this list.

[-] 2 points by dash226 (2) 3 years ago

Dear god, these are some of the stupidest things I have ever read! Did you even think for one tiny second HOW some of these demands would possibly be met or any of their consequences? This list serves only to confirm what so many think of these kids: spoiled, entitled, historically and economically ignorant BRATS!

[-] 2 points by aviatrix (2) 3 years ago

Amen to that.

[-] 2 points by ReverendKev (3) 3 years ago

This demands list alienates a large segment of the ows following. Many of us may prefer a more libertarian approach. Many of us feel that the entitlement rationale that seems prominent in these demands is the root of many of our current problems.

These demands are socialist, irrational and are, in essence, a bandaid to cover a much deeper socio-economic wound.

[-] 2 points by BouncyBallz (5) 3 years ago

1.) I don't see how tariffs are connected with living wage. Lack of trade tariffs , that would mostly bother the "middle class" . I LIKE cheap stuff in Wallmart.

"But cheap stuff at Wallmart is also cheap in quality." -- Nonsense $10 sweatshirt in Wallmart is of equal quality as the $40 one in a university bookstore If "mom n pop" didn't have overpriced small selection they would have survived in capitalism. Why should I be doomed to sponsoring failed businessmen and women and support their economically unviable lifestyle? I don't think the poor in US should walk around in burlap bags just cuz "mom n pop" need to be petty bourgeois. "Restoration of the living wage" -- that's fine "only be met by ending "Freetrade" by re-imposing trade tariffs" - Totally arbitrary and with no causal connection.

2.) it's high time for free healthcare

3.)If the govt pays u the "living wage" - the govt is obliged to find/offer u a job If u refuse - ur out Take u to court - "Ok y did u refuse? What's yer problem?" If u don't have a valid reason - THEN ur a slacker and/or nutz

4.) AWESOME : D The only admission criteria for r college should be - Entrance Exams !!!! 5.) Bogus 6.) Is in the works. Really -- congress' job 7.) Boguuuuuuuuuus 8.) We already have that 9.) Loooooool -- Dreamer's World 10.) Hell Yeah!!!! I want international Observers and news crews on our election. 11.) Looooooool - Undoable 12.) Hehe, mebe 13.) Why is this No 13? WEIRD!!! This should be No 2!!! My 2 Centz : D

[-] 2 points by misterioso (86) 3 years ago

the only thing that matters right now is CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM, unless you get the big money out of politics, no change whatsoever will occur, this should be the focus of the protests, we need to have honest politicians that work for the public before any thing else can get done, campaign finance reform (ending corporate personhood, kicking the lobbyists out of the Washington) is the perfect starting point. It really is a no brainer that this should be the one thing we can all agree on. Because unless we do this, all those other demands that people have will never be addressed, not in a millions years.

[-] 2 points by enoughisenough (2) 3 years ago

What so many want is equal standards for everyone, wether your a doc or a construction worker, we both need each other, but we don't get the same pay. Because one is smarter and retains info, they get more, we all should be able to have the same. Get rid of the tresurer, they add a tax on each dollar made by them, don't forget, we went to war with Britian because the king wanted to us only his money and we said no, so we kicked them out, then what, they introduces a bill to form another one here, that the people don't own but only a small handful do and rep the profits daily. There is no reason whatso ever that if your willing to work, that you don't have your own house. There has been so many inventions made the get rid of fossil fuel, it's crazy, but thier bought up by huge corporation, just watch a video called , who stole the electric car,( henry fords first cars were electric).But an oil guy said you'll never make any money with just electric so he went the other way. Fossil fuel should have been gone 40 years ago but large companies would lose money, so what. Stop spending money to other countries until our own people are taken care of first. Stay out of other country's problem, they've been going on for thousand of years and will never change, I'm not talking about leaders who go nuts, but the people themselves. get rid of the middle man, he's only making money from your products and giving you nothing. Reduce the crap at the borders, there's 500 miles of oregon coast with only a few people patrolling it, come on, better to try going through the border, yah right.Billions being spent on nothing, people will always find the easiest way around things.Bring factories back to where they should be, if people could make a decent wage, they could afford to buy things made here, not by some kid who make 2 bucks a month and then they sell it to you at $200. Make work here, not overseas. These are very basic idea's that would change our world I think for the better, instead of going backwards, for once we'd be going forward. After the last world war, we had the largest middle class citizen's in the world, what happened????????????

[-] 2 points by hope (4) 3 years ago

Though I agree with a lot of what you have as demands, you also need to add to this about our government. Limit anyone running for a government office starting in 2012, that it should only be for four years and no more. No more holding these office positions as a life time career. AND that they only get paid $50,000.00 a year for the position. The same salary as middle class makes or use to make. This will get rid of the corruption currently in office and to make sure that whoever holds these positions, that they know they work for the people, and not for corporations...etc. Also that it is illegal for them to take any money or help from corporations, special interest groups....etc. Basically government needs to get back to working for the 99% and not the 1%.

[-] 2 points by jpierce (3) 3 years ago

"The First Problem" Congress has to need US again. Get the money out of politics.

[-] 2 points by saep66 (5) 3 years ago

I have a point that needs to be discussed. One huge inequality that needs to be addressed is that the average CEO in the US makes between 250 to 300 times the average employee.

$10,982,000 vs $41,861, if those CEOs would reduce that to the 1970 -1980 numbers of 30 X. That could yield 200+ more jobs per company.

http://www.epi.org/publication/webfeatures_snapshots_20060621/

[-] 1 points by saep66 (5) 3 years ago

Based on the fact there are over 18,000 firms employing more than 500 employees that could yield between 3.5 million to 2.0 million jobs!

Why do we need layoffs? So CEOs can make their bonus?

If you believe this is justified then you might as well give up the fight, you believe they are right.

[-] 2 points by foolishinjustice (5) 3 years ago

True Democracy

We like to think that the forms of government in countries such as the U.S.A, Australia, Canada, U.K. and various other European nations are democratic. They are not. This is best demonstrated by today's Australian minority government. How many times do governments make improper decisions and the people pay. Greece is a current example. If the people have to pay for bad decisions then they should be the ones who make the decisions. Governments too often treat the public as children who are not able to make their own decisions.

Democracy needs to be relevant to the new era in which we live. Current forms of so called democracy were designed for an era dependent on primitive technology and communications. Today the voting public can have a direct say in every major decision of government.

I propose a form of real democracy:

When political parties run for election they would be required by law to:

Publish an executive summary of each portfolio (government ministry) identifying goals, strategies, key performance indicators (KPIs) with time lines and Budgets.

The Treasury provides equal funding for the campaigns of each party. All parties cannot exceed the same set spending level.

A contract is established between the voting public and the winning party. The party then forms government.

Should the government not meet its KPIs within predetermined time frames and budgets then an online referendum is called to decide if the voting public will continue to allow the governing party to continue. The party has the ability to present it's case prior to the vote being taken. Alternative parties also have the opportunity to present their viewpoint before a vote is taken.

Each voter is given a secure pin number, all voting takes place online. For those without computers they attend upgraded central computer facilities (We move millions of dollars each day via pin numbers- certainly secure online voting could be achieved if the will was there to refine the technology). Online voting would provide for comparatively cheap, easy and instant results.

All key policy issues such as immigration, foreign ownership, carbon tax, defence, education, health, government spending and so on would all be put before the voting public as a matter of course rather than be decided upon by government. Each major decision for the country would be truly made by the people and not by the government of the day. Surely this is a greatly superior form of democracy than what we have today.

Thank you for considering my concept.

Foolishinjustice http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wk6MeIt-w_Q

[-] 2 points by MarleeDeck (2) 3 years ago

Some of these are really great. However, I too think we need fewer demands and more that cut straight to the artery of corporate undue influence over gov't, lack of access to the democratic process for the 99%, and lack of corporate accountability to the public at large. If we focused on rule of law that make these three things an issue, than over time a lot of the other demands would eventually be met (maybe) through the democratic process, because it would actually be working again. Many of these demands coincide more with the symptoms than the fundamental problem.

I think we need: 1.) clean elections - we need to overturn Citizens United - individual contributions only; 2.) we need to revamp corporate law completely. They should be be considered people by constitutional interpretation (so maybe we need a const. amendment), their purpose should not explicitly and legally be limited to shareholder wealth maximization, meaning they should be allowed to take into account workers, consumers, the environment etc. There is no logical reason, even from a market perspective why there should be a legal fiction imposed on corporations that prevents them from being socially conscious. It's not even better for the economy in the long run. Workers interests are just as likely, if not more, to be aligned with the best interest of the corporation as are shareholder rights 3.) Congress members and administrative law judges should be prohibited from owning stock while in office (this is an obvious conflict of interest - attorneys are allowed to own stock in the companies they are representing. Why should elected officials be able to own stock in the companies they are "regulating"). Once we get corporations out of the Capitol and they quit making every single decision based on a short term cost benefit analysis, we will have the freedom to legislate on all of the other issues which are symptoms of short sided materialism and corruption. 4.) The free trade issue is a good one. Part of why this world economy and people are suffering so much as a result of it is because international law has no real teeth and it's mostly just based on voluntarism of sovereign states, while corporations operate in their own law that transcends country borders. So there's always cheaper labor and somewhere to hide because there is no global legislature. So we need more agreement between the countries and more accountability.

This is great that we're all talking about these things now! Forget the people that say there's no focus. It's an organic process that would maybe take place in the democratic process if it weren't for the fact that it's currently broken. I see it as more than a protest against specific provisions, it's a nation finding it's voice again. Takes a while - and as long as it's growing in intensity and population, the broadness is ok. But I'd like to see us continue to think critically about what few things would impact all of the other problems and how we can funnel this into the essence of our economic injustice.

Peace.

[-] 2 points by Firstpoet (7) from Cleveland, OH 3 years ago

I hope this gains a simple, straight-forward focus and purpose that grows to straighten out our 'broken' governace - there are simple questions the "99%" should ask of our government. I personally would start with their 'entitlements'...since they are looking at Social Security and other things that they call our 'entitlements', even though our employers and ourselves have paid into it more than we ever will take out, individually -

Why do the elected officials in Washington gain another retirement benefit other than the one all of us working US Citizens are eventually going to be a part of - Social Security. It makes no sense to me that we have created 'royalty' in the USA - that to me is a central point that could use some 'correction'. We fought the British to gain autonomy from royalty, yet we really have it here with this simple fact. They don't deserve more or a 'better' program then each of us do - it's that simple.

Where do the funds come from for all those folks currently retired from the Senate/Congress/etc.? I've never heard about that fund or how big it is. Let's liquidate it, put it in Social Security, retract whatever they have voted in for themselves, and put them all on the same program we all will be on. Level the playing field.

I want to hear their rationale for why they think this is deserved for them...don't you - and don't you think that everyone can agree on this simple question. Start there and it will lead you to what is wrong and we can all believe in it. My 2-cents

[-] 2 points by AaronStone (5) 3 years ago

While I applaud the passion behind your demand list I think you should open it up to more debate. I think we should focus on things that both people on the right and left will get behind. I recommend 2 amendments to the constitution:

  1. Election Reform - Remove the electoral collage. All elections in the US will allow the voter to select 1st choice through nth choice. The winner will be determined by finding the best overlap of the voter's selections. This would in effect remove 2 party control of our government. In addition allow voters to retain or not retain justices on the supreme court at the general election. The current court has hijacked our government.

  2. Corporations are not people. This needs to be explicit in the Constitution. The ruling made by the court current allows unlimited funds to be funneled to any candidate by corporations. This ruling must not stand.

If you were to make these demands your focus I believe a majority of America would get behind it.

[-] 2 points by AGoodIdea (2) 3 years ago

I think we should add to this that we need to have a more liberal definition of making change. If a richer person asks a poorer person for change for a $20 bill, for example, a handful of loose change will do...any amount is fine as long as it's under $20. Also, this rule will be fully enforced if the poor person asks the rich person if they need change. The rich one must say yes.

[-] 2 points by concernedeyes (42) 3 years ago

and now people are taking THIS as our actual list of demands and it's hurting us. Way to go.

[-] 0 points by LloydJHart (190) from Vineyard Haven, MA 3 years ago

So what do you suggest censorship?

[-] 2 points by concernedeyes (42) 3 years ago

meh, I was, but I think maybe the admin's note will work now. I know you meant well.

[-] 1 points by DarkStar (43) 3 years ago

Take off the tinfoil hat, it's restricting the blood flow to your brain.

[-] 2 points by Bushido7 (2) 3 years ago

This is by no means a practical or logical list... This should be taken down and re-established after research. I didn't go to Wall Street to fight for this list of demands! This movement will never be taken seriously if this is the list of demands.

How about:

No corporate influence in politics and elections... States Rights and Laws over universal federal government laws... Strict Accountability in Government and Financial Institutions... No more Military Industrial Complex - exporting weapons and feeding the war machine! Ending the Fed... Closing the Boarders (Why the hell would be open them? What exactly is the logic behind that? A 1/3 of all prison inmates are Illegals that we are paying for with our tax dollars to house and feed!!! - Legal Immigration only! Sound money, backed by gold... No more Foreign Aid until the people are taken care of first! No more Bailouts for too-big to fail banks and corporations! Tax Cuts for Corporations that don't ship jobs over seas

Just a few RATIONAL ideas... We're going to get labeled as left-wing radical Cronies... Free Education?! Come on. That's not practical or American in values. Wipe personal debt clear - What?! People need to learn not to spend outside their means! Just because the financial institutions are corrupt, doesn't mean people shouldn't be held accountable for their actions.

I'm a part of the 99% and I say take this down and reasonably re-establish it to represent the ideas expressed in the Declaration of Occupy Wall St!

[-] 1 points by DarkStar (43) 3 years ago

OWS has already gone off the rails, worse than the Teabagger party. It needs to be scrapped and restarted from the ground up - this list and the comments on it are prime evidence why.

[-] 2 points by ceyc (4) 3 years ago

i had such high hopes for this campaign but this is a farce, that list of demands are too dispersed too long and too difficult to implement, this list of demands will only turn people away from this movement

[-] 2 points by FreeUlysses (7) 3 years ago

I much prefer the approach of the specific changes in the Coup Media survey. Those are actionable, avoid class warfare, and right a few wrongs. You need to learn to take baby steps, or you will never have the populace behind you. And if you want changes despite the populace, are you for the people, or a despot yourself?

[-] 2 points by blaze105 (2) from Antigonish, NS 3 years ago

I m sorry to say but this is very radical, with demands like this unless the whole world stops, these demands will never be met. As much as I would love it if these demands were met, its EXTREMELY unrealistic that this will happen.

[-] -1 points by LloydJHart (190) from Vineyard Haven, MA 3 years ago

Well your already defeated

[-] 2 points by nosocialism (7) 3 years ago

Why isn't a demand to get out of our illegal wars overseas? Isn't that making the Wall Street tycoons wealthy?

[-] 1 points by DarkStar (43) 3 years ago

My guess? People realize that unless the military goons actually restart the draft, nobody will really care. The anti-war movement pretty much collapsed when Bush left office.

The costs are now invisible to people who don't: (A)Serve in the military or have friends/family who do, (B)Do the research to see how much it's costing them personally.

(A) doesn't apply to most people and almost nobody makes the effort to do (B).

[-] 2 points by boomer8 (2) 3 years ago

This is beyond ignorance. A recipe for economic disaster, starvation, and worse.ll Lloyd Hart is an ignorant jackass; these demands will not create any jobs, they will create nothing but chaos and destruction. Then they will try to dominate you politically, but it will be too late. Need an example? Look to Cuba. And then die.

[-] 2 points by sunny (2) 3 years ago

You guys are barking up the wrong tree.

Occupy the Federal Reserve. That's the root of the problem

And no where in your demands - which are too many - do you demand to end the wars.

Ron Paul 2012 if you really want your country back.

[-] 2 points by Valentine (2) 3 years ago

While this is a reasonable start, I think my own personal list of what to start off with would look more like these ten points:

  1. Institute living wage minimums per region based on actual realistic calculations of cost of living in a given region. This includes factoring in things like child care costs, transportation costs, and most minimum wage jobs only offering 20-30 hour work weeks.

  2. Replace the multiple confusing welfare, unemployment, and disability systems with a single safety net system calculated on a living wage. It should be open to all unemployed individuals who can show they're either actively looking for work or unable to work. We should make it so that as long as you're sincerely trying to become employed you shouldn't be forced to worry about how to support yourself if you can't get someone to hire you fast enough.

  3. Remove all tax loopholes and deductions, and institute straight-forward progressive tax rates based on income levels. No more tax cuts or evasions for the rich who have a better ability to pay and who often benefit most from the country infrastructure to run their businesses.

  4. Free or heavily-subsidized higher-level education. If a college degree is the new high school diploma, we need to find ways to stop poor people from being locked out of education that can improve their status, and having our new generations of educated workers all entering the workplace saddled with thousands and thousands of dollars of debt.

  5. Fast track programs to develop green, sustainable energy, protect, restore and preserve our environment, and protect our power infrastructure from solar & terrestrial storms and EMP bursts.

  6. Fast track program to bring our water, sewer, transportation, and communications infrastructures fully up-to-date and beyond. Including better and more comprehensive public transportation and full availability of broadband internet.

  7. Institute single-payer healthcare, and work towards streamlining and making more efficient the healthcare system of information and treatment.

  8. Demand that companies pay outsourced employees at the same rate as American employees or better and only do business with suppliers that meet minimum standards for their workers and facilities based on American standards or better, to make outsourcing less profitable/desirable and less abusive of human rights.

  9. Full racial, gender, and religious equality. Including not forcing religious laws and rituals on non-religious people, and not dictating who we're allowed to love and marry.

  10. Fair trade instead of free trade.

  11. End all private contributions to political campaigns.

And soundbite-wise, "No more agendas, give us what works!" about sums up my own feelings on this country. I'm sick and tired of all the ideological BS, where we vote for capitalistic things which are ruining our economy, against socialist aspects that are proven to work better than what we have, for denying rights based on 2000-year old mythological books, and against programs which accept human beings are human beings and work with human nature instead of fighting it. It's time the people in charge stopped forcing the world and all of us into how they wish it was, and started dealing with us how we actually are. I want them to stop giving us what they think we need, or think we should have, and start giving us what we actually need and actually should have, based on actual, real-world studies, observations, and figures.

[-] 2 points by woodscraps (3) 3 years ago

And what about these wars? Wall street and the military industrial complex profit from these wars, which are a product of political corruption.

crickets

[-] 2 points by gavinwsewell (4) 3 years ago

What if we start with some easy to understand demands that can be met quickly and then some major system changing demands at the end. For example: (1. Immediate moratorium on all evictions and bail-out direct to threatened home owners.

(2. Cancellation of ALL student loans for any student willing to do two years of Americore / community service type work.

(3. Formation of a New Deal type public works commission to put unemployed people to work building infrastructure.

(4. Open the Medicare/Medicaid programs to anyone who wants them AND allow them to negotiate drug prices like any other insurer.

Within two years:

(5. Modernize our voting system to proportional representation with run off elections for the presidency to break the two party duopoly.

(6. Cap all corporate and private political donations at $5000 and provide federal matching funding for candidates.

(7. Impose term limits on the house and senate.

(8. Roll back the powers of the presidential office to those specified in the constitution, specifically the part that an act of congress is required to go to war.

[-] 2 points by CormacJosh (2) 3 years ago

I'm with you on ending Corporatism, on Auditing the Federal Reserve Bank. I have a lot of respect for the risks and sacrifices people are making out there, but these demands are mostly absurd. Come back when you've learned basic economics and Constitutional Law... I'm afraid this website is merely The State trying to co opt the protests like they did the Tea Parties, and the demands cannot be taken seriously.

[-] 1 points by LloydJHart (190) from Vineyard Haven, MA 3 years ago

All you conservatives are neophytes to basic economics and constitutional law and won't even consider what has worked in other nations.

[-] 0 points by Laxbro (0) 3 years ago

Lloyd, you are as ignorant as it gets. I'm 14, you may think I'm of much less intelligence than you and I sincerely don't give a shit. I've looked at all of your posts and you clearly take the retard cake for having the stupidest, most liberal bullshit ideology I have ever seen. You're worse than my teachers.

[-] 0 points by crosstherubicon (4) 3 years ago

Which countries would that be? Please enlighten us as to where any of your proposals have been successfully implemented WITHOUT causing economic turmoil. Any countries in Europe? How about Asia? South America? Name one country the size of the United States that has done what you propose. And again, I ask a simple question - if I want to work for less than $20/hour can I do so? Can I work in my chosen profession without joining a labor union?

[-] 2 points by Uguysarenuts (270) 3 years ago

Occupy wall street: "what do we want?" ummm, not sure, we are still working that out, but we demand it! "when do we want it" Ummmm, yesterday, whatever we decide that we want, it's an outrage that it hasn't been legislated into existence yet!

[-] 2 points by MidasRex (7) 3 years ago

LOL, dude seriously - you haven't the foggiest idea what kind of catastrophic impact we'd see in the economy if your kindergarten mentality demands were enacted, do you?

[-] 2 points by LloydJHart (190) from Vineyard Haven, MA 3 years ago

You mean like catastrophic conditions that exist now thanks to conservative policies that put 43 million below the poverty line and 25 million out of work. I swear to god conservative really means "Support group for the lead poisoned."

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[-] 2 points by mweadbrock (3) 3 years ago

This is insane. Minimum wages set by the government stop the creation of jobs. Guaranteed living wage, free college...Nothing is FREE...who is going to pay for your trillion dollar ideas up there?? What you propose is being Robin Hood. At least have the balls to admit what you are implying. DEBT FORGIVENESS??...someone needs an economic education. And why on earth would anyone want to work when you are guaranteed a living wage REGARDLESS OF EMPLOYMENT STATUS?

I encourage everyone to be a Libertarian. This is the only path to happiness for all of us. Seriously.

[-] 2 points by JanC71 (36) 3 years ago

Are you completely nuts? So the answer is MORE government and LESS personal liberty? Govenrment CAUSED all the problems! This is total lunacy....

[-] 3 points by vwhead (5) 3 years ago

Deregulation and corporate greed caused this. Illegal occupations of innocent countries with no way to pay for the abomination caused this. You and I caused this by not voting for politicians that work for US and not the most generous lobbyists. we have a "Govern" ment for a reason. the problem is that our representaives quit representing the people and favor big money. Trickle down economics + human greed = disfunctional economics - i.e.the need for regualtion

[-] -1 points by OneManArmy (-2) 3 years ago

Actually, it is over-regulation that caused this, NOT deregulation. Also, there is NO illegal occupation of innocents countries. Although, there are several justified occupations of allied countries that not only asked us to be there but want us to remain there in order to keep the peace, if you will. Get your head out of your rear end, please.

[-] 1 points by Winston (23) 3 years ago

By allowing themselves to be bribed in a system based on bribery? How about the business's that offered the bribes? Do you think government dictates the agenda to business? All empirical evidence suggests that it is the other way around.

[-] 2 points by SILLYLIBERALS (3) 3 years ago

is this a real list? .. haha silly fucking liberals

[-] 1 points by DarkStar (43) 3 years ago

This is a real list submitted by some random person, and made 'official' by the likes of Faux news and Flush Limpballs.

Whoever wrote it up, I hope you're proud of yourself for making us all look like idiots. And you're an idiot.

[-] 1 points by TheDailyCannibal (12) 3 years ago

Wait until we win and you get your annual $100,000 check. You won't be laughing then. I'm buying a jet.

[-] 1 points by johnnybravo (7) 3 years ago

make mine solar powered!!

[-] 0 points by cwb2547 (27) 3 years ago

I know! I seriously do not think a single one of these idiots even has a high-school understanding of economics. A first semester economics major could crush all of these morons in a debate.

[-] 2 points by freecollege (4) 3 years ago

Great ideas and if people do not fall in line, we can starve them to death like the USSR did to Ukraine. Then, we can pull them out of their homes who do not fit in and ship them off to the Siberia. After that, we can kill the elite and educated to keep them from influencing the lower classes and causing any type of revolution.

[-] 1 points by LloydJHart (190) from Vineyard Haven, MA 3 years ago

Your just a moron

[-] 1 points by UnicornFairy69 (2) 3 years ago

Not proper usage Lloyd. Not good, not good at all. I believe

[-] 0 points by clents (0) 3 years ago

"You're", Lloyd. That bothers me...

[-] 0 points by pariscommune (205) 3 years ago

milions of people would already be starving to death all over the US if it wasnt for food stamps socialism which arent free market thats advocated by the bunch of nutters spamming this forum with their republican government & capitalist suckups ideology.

[-] 0 points by oh7Eek2 (8) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

Socialism is like cancer. Get a little bit, and then it metastasizes.

The socialist programs that the US has instituted created many of these poor people. To reduce the problem of poverty, reduce the amount of socialism.

But Socialists are like alcoholics. They can never say "I've had enough."

[-] 2 points by pariscommune (205) 3 years ago

so you are saying the poor werent there when social programs were institued? what were they institued for then? oops contradiction. let me tell you the truth about social programs: they are all that stands between the rich and the revolution of the working class and they were installed first back when there were revolutions going on, early 20th century. thats why even smart republicans advocate them and rich guys go like "oh we should pay some more taxes actually" in times of crisis when they never have that thought in times of "boom". its called being scared, and rightfully so.

[-] 1 points by DarkStar (43) 3 years ago

Socialism is supposed to be like medicine - administered in small, controlled doses. Not downed by the bottle like a gutter-dwelling bum going through cheap wine.

In combination with other things, it helps prevent a 'disease' called "violent revolution", which happens when there are a lot of poor people with absolutely nothing to lose.

Wanna know how that ends? Ask France.

[-] 2 points by padlocke (2) 3 years ago

This needs to be removed. This list is ridiculous, childish and smacks of wanting to avoid many of the things we as adults have to accept. It misrepresents the movement.

THIS IS NOT IN ANY WAY AN OFFICIAL REPRESENTATION OF OWS.

But many people outside of the movement are reading it as such. It's absolutely disturbing that we're being presented like this.

[-] 0 points by LloydJHart (190) from Vineyard Haven, MA 3 years ago

What a great idea censorship

[-] 1 points by DarkStar (43) 3 years ago

Come back when you actually know what censorship is, pothead.

[-] 2 points by Patriot (2) 3 years ago

Who is going to pay for all of this? Free living wage regardless of employment? Who is going to work to pay for the rest of this stuff? You know when people say, "the government pays" that really means that you and I pay with our taxes. So you're basically asking for a monumental tax increase on everyone while stripping away their rights to choose.

Free living wage...and we all get to live in FEMA trailers, eat government cheese, beans, rice and bread...forget about eating out or going to McDs for a quick meal or going to the movies, those are not necessities, those are luxuries. Phones? Only to dial 911. Cars? What do you need a car for? You're getting everything provided that you "need".

You all need to be VERY careful what you're asking for.

Now, you may think that it's good that people can't eat at McDs or drive a car or whatever else you don't like but remember, when you allow the government to start making choices for people, eventually they are going to make YOUR choices, too. And you will not like that.

I encourage anyone who supports this to talk to people who have actually lived under Communism. I don't know a soul who liked it.

[-] 2 points by Michael51 (2) 3 years ago

These leftists and the banksters they are protesting actually are both globalists pushing the same ultimate agenda, viz. more government power and less liberty for everyone. Don't let them fool you. Advocates of centralized power have been using this Dialectical process for many years: 1) Create situation; 2) Create opposition to situation; 3) Create new "solution" to benefit the centralizers.

[-] 2 points by dick (26) 3 years ago

Thus making the protesters useful idiots.

"Maybe I'm an idiot. But at least I'm a useful one!"

[-] 2 points by LloydJHart (190) from Vineyard Haven, MA 3 years ago

and you libertarians are paranoid

[-] 2 points by Jenzie (2) 3 years ago

I hope that the majority of people involved in this movement are more intelligent than this list of demands would indicate. This list would ruin the country you are trying to fix. I'm no economist, but some of these policies, like the open borders with a country that has actively enabled the trafficking of people, drugs, and violence across our border, and wage standards that would put a significant number of small businesses out of commission while you limit the amount of goods available for sale by imposing huge tariffs...I'm just not following the logic.... It was a lack of regulation of big businesses coupled with- dare I say it- irresponsible individual decisions (basically greed) that caused these problems, and it seems to me that the best way to fix the problem is to deal with these issues directly.

Also, I don't believe that it is possible to legislate morality, so, while it is admirable to want to put some of these social issues on the agenda, they will ultimately only be solved by people making decisions- right decisions- day by day, moment by moment. If enough people woke up every morning with a firm commitment that their actions that day would leave the world a better place than they found it, that would change things. Until that happens, then the best we can really do is to try to keep the playing field more fair and even for all the players (from a regulatory standpoint, not a socialist one).

[-] 2 points by MichaelH1 (2) 3 years ago

Thanks so much for throwing away my support for your cause. Your list is ridiculous and if you think you have listed the desires of the 99% of Americans ... how sad. America wants jobs and an end to corporate manipulations. Think before you turn your cause into a joke! Broad based support requires more then dreaming up a list that won't draw support from more then a few friends.

[-] 0 points by LloydJHart (190) from Vineyard Haven, MA 3 years ago

What part don't you like?

[-] 1 points by DarkStar (43) 3 years ago

The parts that make about as much sense as a soup sandwich, probably.

[-] 2 points by slimjim3k (3) 3 years ago

Let me summarize this as best I can.

LETS JUST PRINT MORE MONEY! TURN THE AMERICAN DOLLAR INTO MONOPOLY MONEY OVER NIGHT, I MEAN IT'S NOT LIKE IT'S ALREADY DOING BAD! WHILE WERE AT IT! LETS MAKE THIS LAND FREE GAME FOR THE MEXICAN CARTELS! THEY CAN SURELY HELP US REPLANT FORESTS SO ALL MY LITTLE FOREST FRIENDS CAN BE HAPPY AND WE CAN ALL LIVE IN PEACE!

[-] 2 points by skjgnfbkjgn (3) 3 years ago

Do you people even understand the concept of money? If they just make enough to do all of this, inflation will be unbelievable. Where are these trillions of dollars going to come from? How will companies all be able to afford $20/hr wages? It sounds like this movement wants to abolish the idea of currency in general and just make everything free for everyone ever. This cannot possibly work.

Also, I see that you resort to deleting comments that you don't like. Keep living in a fantasy world where any of this is a good idea and no one disagrees.

[-] 2 points by ATMiller (4) 3 years ago

The list of demands is making me think twice about the movement. I now fear it has been infiltrated and may be getting corrupted. Maybe I'm just being skeptical...then again, maybe not.

[-] 2 points by revg33k (429) from Woodstock, IL 3 years ago

This forum is just that a free and open forum to express ideas

Check this out and follow the link after the edit

These are the demands

http://occupywallst.org/forum/first-official-release-from-occupy-wall-street/

[-] 2 points by ATMiller (4) 3 years ago

Thank you! I was afraid this was going to be the official list. Sorry for the confusion. Peace & Love

[-] 2 points by sweetsue (3) 3 years ago

To many demands, and most unsustainable. I think we should be a group of people, who otherwise might not mix, but are united under a common cause; to stop the corporate take over of our government, and return it to the people of the United States of America. That any further attempts to corrupt our political system will be viewed as treason. We are not allied with any sect, denomination, politics, organization, or institution.

[-] 2 points by npowell85 (249) from Montana City, Mt 3 years ago

Lots of people want to join the cause be this is simply unachievable. Support will flow in across the nation if you guys can get real about a single demand. Like, for instance, a ban on corporate lobbying and campaign contributions as this can only breed corruption. And then you systematically achieve each of your other demands through the process of democracy, and if they don't show real intent to change, you march again. Thanks to those who are sacrificing their time and even their freedom to make a difference for all Americans. Get unified and this could really go somewhere!

[-] 1 points by amarta (1) 1 year ago

Excellent demand.! let get a petition started and get this put into a bill and get it on the table. I believe we have to have 25,000 signatures to get it to the white house. Let do it Please.

[-] 1 points by Haro (1) 2 years ago

This list is ridiculous for both for it's omissions and it's focus.

"Open borders" is the only demand that is mentioned twice. Why?

"Open borders" is not a priority in the minds of most Americans, even on the left. There are a myriad of issues that need to be extinguished before most of these demands are met, most of all "open borders", which is a non-issue as far as the well-being of the people of our country is concerned.

Why no focus on banking or the federal reserve? Why no focus on prosecuting bankers? Why no focus on questionable war and international intervention? Why no focus on illegal detention? Why no focus on military spending? Why no focus on remediation of the bought and paid for media? Why no focus on the prison industry? Why no focus on corruption in general? Why no focus on our corrupted representative democracy, wherein there is almost no truly meaningful political difference between democrats and republicans? Why no demand for the people's right to referendum (you know, a real democracy)? Why no focus on corporate political donations? Why no focus on the fact that AIPAC isn't a registered foreign entity? Why no focus on the fake revolutions that drag this country into war or supporting war? Why no focus on health care? Why no focus on torture? Why no focus on the patriot act? Why no focus on the tax structure (instead of the current focus an a bunch of 'gimmee' demands from the tax base)?

This list of demands reads as some kids private fantasy agenda, taking into account only the fact that he or she needs money, hates debt, and wants to speed up the flow of immigration into this country, which is a racist agenda.

News to all of the "minimum income" advocates: you fail spectacularly at economics. Listen, if you raise the income of everyone to a minimum, the prices on EVERYTHING will rise to make that minimum the new de-facto "one dollar". Prices are an entirely relative concept. That is, anything with value adjusts to be priced at where supply and demand deems. If you raise demand by giving everyone a minimum income, the price of everything adjusts perfectly to that new demand. Therefore, you will realize zero increase in purchasing power with your new "minimum income". Housing, food, and prices on everything else would adjust flawlessly, just like they did when women decided to go to work. Now, instead of families enjoying "extra" income from two working partners, it is now de-facto required that two partners work to meet the same standard of living that the family previously enjoyed when only one partner worked. The prices of food, housing, and everything else rose perfectly to meet the increased demand from a two income household that represented the average new baseline minimum income. All that was accomplished was taking the choice away from women to stay home. Now, they HAVE to work in most families.

If you outlaw credit reporting, forget anyone ever giving a loan again. Good luck, lower class, pulling yourselves out of poverty without a loan. Because it's so easy to save your weekly paycheck. No credit reporting + unknown risk = no loans ever OR loans only at the highest rate legally possible to mitigate risk. Look for illegal, kneecap busting loan-sharks to pop up everywhere, and increasingly be the populaces only option. Even revolutionaries can take responsibility for rational borrowing and credit score management. It's not that hard. I'm dirt poor (a student) but have good credit because I don't borrow more than I can repay. I live poor because I am poor, but I avoid debt and bad credit. My mind will eventually give me a decent income, and then I will be able to afford more - again, without taking on an irresponsible level of debt. If you a re afraid of credit reporting, then the problem lies with you. Yes, the job market also has much to do with it, but even still the problem nor the solution doesn't lie within consumer credit reporting.

In reality, this list is an "open borders minority rights" list thinly veiled with a hodge-podge of poorly thought out demands thrown in to mix it up. As a white man, I can assure you that minorities and women get priority hire over me already, and get accepted to University programs as a priority over my demographic. The laws overwhelmingly favor you already, and so don't worry about your amendment. Just study and present yourself well. They are begging for you if you can truly do this, trust me. Lest your real agenda is to completely eliminate meritocracy or to further discriminate against my demographic (which you already do). His/her thinly veiled hate for white men, which exist in large amounts in this country and most of whom are poor or lower-middle class, and suffer just as much as anyone else, is palpable. ENOUGH SPECIAL INTEREST AGENDAS! Get the bullshit out of the Occupy movement and lobby for changes that will make a real, permanent difference. You need to start with the money supply and end with the lack of inherent structural integrity in our easily corruptable form of government See my list above.

[-] 1 points by ranjeet (1) 2 years ago

first demand... an immediate end to any and every form of captivity on earth.

second demand... the dismantling or destruction of all weapons, and instruments of violence.

third demand... free passage for all, removal of every border, boundary or territory.

fourth demand... liquidation of all corporate entities, financial institutions and global banks.

fifth demand... redistribution of wealth hoarded by religious organisations, monarchy and aristocracy.

sixth demand... direction of all defence, military and police agencies towards public welfare, disaster management and social service.

seventh demand... any governance is only, to ensure universal health care, housing, sanitation, water, waste and food management.

[-] 1 points by JaneG (1) from Denver, CO 2 years ago

You DO realize, don't you, that these demands amount to abolishing private property and establishing a totalitarian Communist dictatorship, similar to North Korea. You see how that's working out for them.

[-] 1 points by FGreggMeagher (1) 2 years ago

These demands only demonstrate the inadequacy of OWS to bring about progressive fair changes within Society (...be it the American One or elsewhere) in an effective manner without being the final impetus to the total economic disaster that is now on America's doorstep. They lack foresight into the reality, which now exists; and further, into the 'Reality' of their opposition. Without the later 'foresight', no one can do more or less than create disasters at extremely damaging levels. OWS shouts out 'World Change and Revolution'. Obviously they are not monitoring the ending results in Egypt, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, and other countries, in which the White House has created major damages in all sectors and ares of Life; or, the revolters have done so themselves. Egypt is now under a military state, which is demonstrating its posiution to command. Libya is facing internal divisions among the tribes who fought together for power; and further, like the others listed, their homes, schools, hospitals, factories, businesses large and smalle are noticeably destroyed. In brief, bombs or bad demands can, and will, accomplish the same end.

There is no possible way that the demands being presented by OWS can be put into effect without total collapse of both the American and International Economical system(s). This collapses on the OWSers and everyone else that lives in a so-called democratic, or not, nation. Those living in Thrid World Countries would be doomed to total abandonment and death at the hands of those whose weapon was 'lack of foresight' (of either the Global Sitruation and/or the Reality of their opposition: political, industrial-commercial, and religious empires that have been constructed into Humanity's Foundations over hundreds of years of power and wealth seekeng and implementation).

“Wake up America!” must be followed-up with a Hot Coffee and Breakfast with the fiollowing ingredients: Intelligence, Logic, Wisdom, Truth, Compassion, Love, and Organization. The later, must be implemented via an internal system, which can grow in a parallel manner with those systems now in place. An internal system, which, in fact and with wisdom, can grow as a seed within the mighty pyramid (existing structure) peacefully, strongly, wisely, effectively, and rationally, in a manner in which 100% of America > around the World's Populations < can, in fact, begin to prosper independently of the establishment's mind-games and controls. A seed, which can penetrate the fortress wall's crevices and defects causing them to fall behind the newly blossomed leaves and flowers of the endless plant or vine that evolves form that 'Seed'.

The above, allows normalcy within the lives of individuals, families, and communities at local,national, and international levels; thus, permitting a reduction of economic stress and the opportunity to concentrate on managing the White Houses at international levels. Other benefits: living Life instead of suriving as a slave within the system, which has been intentionally created; being able to relax and concentrate on Life's True Values and Qualities at individual and international humanitarian levels; regeneration of Natural Abilities and Capabilities at physical and mental levels by cleaning-up life-supporting environments; and, the Greatest Advantage is arriving at a point when 'Each of Everyone' can focus on True Being and Unity on this Planet and within Our Universes. In other words Individual and World Peace within our physical Beings and Our Nations of Peoples.

So much is being said in these times about “The American Dream!”. Let me tell you something: A “dream” exists only because the dreamer does not have the courage to turn it into a decision; or, trhey just don't believe in it as being a Reality, which is achievable. It is Time! > To stop dreaming and start building with bricks, of solid decisions, manufactured by intelligent analysis of the existing structure; and, remodelling it with wise, and courageous steel beams architectured with Peace and Logic, while living in a 'New Normalcy' of regenerating True Life into living. No interruptions are necessary: home life, work, study, cultural, fraternal, humanitarian, or other! There is no need to be in the streets! More can be done by phone, fax, and the internet! And, in the end: Who are those in the streets? Who is 'OWS'?

[-] 1 points by PPLRIDIOTS (1) from New York, NY 2 years ago

You all should occupy Cuba, this sounds like a communistic society to me.

[-] 1 points by hangingk (5) 2 years ago

These demands are ridiculous. Instead of occupy wallstreet lets tax them. I would like to see a sales tax on every stock trade. This would eliminate high speed stock trading and bring revenue to the government to solve our budget issues. Please support my petition by passing it along or signing ( http://wh.gov/DOw ).

[-] 1 points by poopsiedoodle (1) 2 years ago

You have officially wasted my time.

[-] 1 points by chagresgirl (1) from Miami, FL 2 years ago

You should have two IMPORTANT demands to start with. For instance - get rid of lobbyists (they rule the Government) and stop the GOP from changing ID rules for voting...every American has the right to vote and ANY legitimate means of ID should suffice. After you get those things, move on to two more.

[-] 1 points by Tmcrume (1) 2 years ago

Demands to who? Congress? The GOP is the PROBLEM.....get rid of them and then a discussion can evolve about ideas. Please OWSers help us old liberals get rid of the GOP. sign up with the Dems. Your message needs to be oustGOP, republicans are the cause of the divide between 99-1%.
Many of you voted for Obama then opted out in the midterms and that has been costly for us.

[-] 1 points by OccupyYourLives (2) 2 years ago

20$ an hour, c'mon...the problem is not in the numbers!!! The problem is in the "how and why" of things. The market is built to encourage profit while ignoring environmental issues and human rights. We are expunging the Earth, and there is no balance.

We need a system that encourages minimum natural resource utilization as a principle metric for determining corporate performance. EPS (earnings per share) cannot continue to be the only metric that is important for success of any venture.

Secondly, certain Domestic Business (Business's that depend on their geographical location for their cash flows) would be taxed. Massively. Free-Corporations (Business that can operate anywhere; ie head offices) would never be taxed (0% free-corp tax rate)

And to finalize everything. Money Creation must be given to the people. The people and Businesses and government would create the money supply as they consume. Limits of consumption would be governed, yet prices would move constantly and regularly as the money supply expands and contracts.

OccupyYourLives https://www.facebook.com/pages/OccupyYourLives/295709083794484?sk=wall

[-] 1 points by buhg (1) 2 years ago

You realize that if you forgive all debt globally, you will no longer have the ability to access credit markets. Good luck getting a home loan, perhaps you plan on upgrading your tent ?

[-] 1 points by Mohammadbhai (1) 2 years ago

Fixed Loans, with 2% no requirement to qualify. Universal Health Care. Monthly Incentives for every one to live on. New political Party. People Democratic Party Outlaw all credit reporting agency. Jail Terms for politician. Drop Support for ISRAEL. SAVE MONEY 10billions which america pays yearly.

[-] 1 points by montyboy01 (4) 2 years ago

"Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now."

Too bad the Obamacrats took the $800 billion (nearly a trillion) in a so-called stimulus package 2 years ago and only $48 billion went towards infrastructure. The rest was in political paybacks for each senators/congressmen's district for such worthy stimulus and job-creating projects such as home heating assistance, after school programs, refilling food banks, etc. 5% -- that's it!

[-] 1 points by Rajaat99 (1) 2 years ago

Here's my proposed list of demands: 1. All corporations can only legally operate in the state in which they are incorporated. 2. Any politician convicted of taking bribes will get live in prison. 3. The federal government cannot give any money to privately owned businesses.

[-] 1 points by Haikatrine (1) from Vero Beach, FL 2 years ago

okay, a start. like, start high if you know you're about to haggle! ;)

[-] 1 points by Jim1657 (1) 2 years ago

Looks like some of these demands may be in the "too hard to do" box while others are not thought out well. If we forgive all debt, what happens to the owners of that debt and their stockholders, many of whom may be planning retirement on the concept that their investment will pay off as planned vice being flushed down the toilet becasue someone else wants a free ride. Not saying there aren't things to fix though. Check out http://www.thomhartmann.com/users/jim-blalock/blog/2011/11/occupy-wallstreet-demands-some-recommendations.

[-] 1 points by occupywallstreetbabycom (12) 2 years ago

This is not the list of demands from occupy wall street but froom one attention hungry person and this is not legit. Lloyd J Hart is a fucking dumbass

[-] 1 points by Leraje6 (1) 2 years ago

this "Revolution" movement what ever is ridiculous from the stand point of how it is being done. If you really want to stop people and get noticed you need to shut down the Arteries of the country. You should have been blocking Major highways and toll roads not this shit. The only way you are going to get a real "revolution" started is by bringing the country to a grinding halt and effecting every single person in the country. If you you can't accomplish that then just stop now. Also give up on demands because you are not in any position to demand anything. The country is still moving regardless of what your doing. Do it rite !

[-] 1 points by FellowChangeSeeker (1) 2 years ago

Seriously? Why is there no official site? Who the hell is Lloyd Hart and what does he have to do with anything?

Sadly, unlike any US historical protests, this one seems woefully disjointed. There is no rally point for the average american joe to stand behind.

Women's right to vote? A leader, a message, and clearly defined solution.

Racial Equality? A leader, a message, and clearly defined solution.

Women's equality? A leader, a message, and clearly defined solution.

60's peace movement? A leader, a message, and clearly defined solution.

Occupy Wall Street? Nothing.

[-] 1 points by 123456789 (1) 2 years ago

You people need to have real and cohesive goals, otherwise this is just a freak show. No one really knows what you stand for and the media is spreading lies about this movement. Repeat a lie often enough, it will become the truth.

[-] 1 points by bigdave5659 (1) 2 years ago

As long as stock income is taxed at a lower rate than other income corporations and individuals with money will invest in stocks rather than invest in expanding productions. The taxes should be less on the gains of employee based revenues for companies not the other way around. Also does anyone know if there are regulations for companies to denote what part of their profit comes from to sale of stocks and what part comes from actual product or can companies mislead people by showing stock profits as company profits?

[-] 1 points by dubliner (1) 2 years ago

We have had a fair number of those demands meet in the EU decades ago. Others like open borders exist within the EU but not for those outside it except when seeking asylum .

Debt forgiveness for Joe Soap doesn't look to be on the cards but our governments are forcing the rogue banks to be adaptable and keep foreclosures to the minimum. With me for example they have agreed for me just to pay the interest on my mortgage and so keep a roof over my families head. So basically there is little in that list which is beyond the bounds of possibility - at least not in countries where valuing societies is appreciated above individualism and every man for himself.

[-] 1 points by saywhat (1) 2 years ago

one of the dumbest things ive read

[-] 1 points by confusedone (1) 2 years ago

If there is no real list of demands, what are you protesting exactly? The world would like to know...

[-] 1 points by hhuston2011 (3) 2 years ago

On which planet would this work? And what kind of jobs will these policies create. Right off the bat you're talking about decimating the health care insurance industry. Gee that's only a million jobs lost right there. You forgot to demand that we let all of the criminals go free because its not fair for them to be locked up.

And by the way, If you forgive all my debts and mortgage, then I have no reason to go to work. I just don't see how this would work.

[-] 1 points by acriticalthinker (8) 2 years ago

This is pure infantile wishful thinking insanity. Just to take the first demand: raise the minimum wage to $20 per hour. Mr. Hart obviously believes that employers have an unlimited supply of money, and it is only because of "greedy" and "mean-spirited" selfishness that some employers pay less than $20 per hour. OK, since employers do NOT have unlimited piles of cash, but instead get whatever money they have from CUSTOMERS who buy an employer's products or services, how much will a hamburger at McDonald's have to cost in order to pay the inexperienced and low skill teen who works there $20 per hour? Will the cost of the hamburger rise to $7, $10? At that price, will McDonalds sell fewer hamburgers (and need fewer workers)? Isn't an arbitrary minimum wage of $20 an hour (why not $35 per hour?) going to result in more people making ZERO rather than $20 per hour? The problem with idealistic and unrealistic demands like these is that they are very superficial in their "thinking" and have ZERO understanding of the "other side" of the equation and the negative consequences (unintended, no doubt) if a demand was actually met.

[-] 1 points by dkelley714 (1) 2 years ago

Why would you want to even want to go to college if everyone was going to make $20.00 an hour. What would be the point. CRAZY-

[-] 1 points by godisstillable (1) 2 years ago

what a moron! what happened to working for a living and getting what you earn? i work two jobs, go to school, have 2 kids, husband....busy busy life....and i am sick of seeing people take our hard earned money that the government gives them to spend on 3 buggies full of groceries that contain slabs of ribs, chips, sodas-just to name a few and we have to watch every penny we spend and i can't remember the last time we bought ribs!!!!!! my oldest son was handicapped-never walked, talked held his head up, nothing! and we could not even get government assistance for him! what the heck is this nation coming to? Work for your living people! my, oh my, what happened to America?

[-] 1 points by annoyed1491 (1) 3 years ago

Really, I mean really!?! Where does it say that an American does not have to take responsibility for their actions? Foreclosure is a terrible thing, but maybe one should buy a house that they can afford instead of keeping up with the Joneses. If one does not feel they should pay back their debts, then don't open up a line of credit. Demand 9 is absolutely ridiculous! Ask those in border towns how their lives have been affected by the violence that the drug trade has brought in. Minimum wage at $20 an hour? How does one propose that is funded? Get an education and one has the chance to increase their level of pay. My first year out of college didn't provide me with a wage of $20 an hour. I survived! I am for free speech, I am an American! But all the time and effort that is placed on these protests should be placed in finding a job, any job to make ends meet until this mess is cleaned up or learn a trade. Or are you too good for that?

[-] 1 points by MsManyQuestions (2) 3 years ago

These demands are conflicting, and primarily irrantional. It's easy to make these demands when you were born free in n a free country. How do you think it got that way? How do you think we will manage resources as a nation with open boarders? Determine if you are a viable candidate for a home loan? And nothing is FREE. How will this college education be paid for?

[-] 1 points by marcfrombc (2) 3 years ago

This is a strong list of demands and I am happy they are focused on economic inequality. Some people are upset that they are focused on the state, but it is the only entity that can be utilized to bring about widespread change. If we don't use it, the reactionaries will continue to use it as a weapon against us. We should resist any sort of traditional political campaigning or single issue legislative work. Independence is key. These demands are not crazy, naive or anything of the sort. Free college Ed? Single Payer healthcare? Hardly. These are not even radical demands. The money for public works? How much was spent on the last two military adventures: 3 to 4 trillion!!!

[-] 1 points by ChrisMayer (3) 3 years ago

Lets focus on campaign finance reform and infrastructure, mabye even education reform. Theses thing have the support of the majority of americans. I mean are you trying to marginalize this movement or what. How the f*** is the government going to pay people not to work? Alittle ridiculous no? Don't jeopardize this movement by alienating it from the broader society. Once your politicians are listening again you can ask for what you want but lets end the corruption first.

[-] 1 points by ChrisMayer (3) 3 years ago

Lets focus on campaign finance reform and infrastructure, mabye even education reform. Theses thing have the support of the majority of americans. I mean are you trying to marginalize this movement or what. How the f*** is the government going to pay people not to work? Alittle ridiculous no? Don't jeopardize this movement by alienating it from the broader society. Once your politicians are listening again you can ask for what you want but lets end the corruption first.

[-] 1 points by ChrisMayer (3) 3 years ago

Lets focus on campaign finance reform and infrastructure, mabye even education reform. Theses thing have the support of the majority of americans. I mean are you trying to marginalize this movement or what. How the f*** is the government going to pay people not to work? Alittle ridiculous no? Don't jeopardize this movement by alienating it from the broader society. Once your politicians are listening again you can ask for what you want but lets end the corruption first.

[-] 1 points by deere55 (1) 3 years ago

demand 14: Give everyone infinity jillion dollars, because all the meanies are hoarding it all.

demand 15: Have all the children of the world join hands and sing in perfect harmony.

[-] 1 points by Legimus (1) 3 years ago

Demand #1 – High tariffs will destroy our ability to trade with other countries. Also, $20/hr minimum wage is absurd. Learn some economics.

Demand #2 – Insurers don't provide healthcare. Doctors do, and you don't have the right to control everything they do.

Demand #3 – You act like it's a human right without any argument.

Demand #4 – Also absurd. Learn some economics.

Demand #5 – This is actually reasonable.

Demand #6 – Sure, I'll just grab that spare trillion I had sitting in the corner.

Demand #7 – See #6.

Demand #8 – Been there, done that. See the Civil Rights Movement.

Demand #9 – Those laws were put in place for a reason. Open-door policies just aren't sensical anymore. There are too many risks involved. I'm all for making it easier to come here, but come on. Get real, man.

Demand #10 – This makes some sense.

Demand #11 – This would cause the world economy to collapse. Again, learn some economics.

Demand #12 – Yes, blend the public and private sector even more. The closer the two get, the more allies politicians will find in big business.

Demand #13 – This doesn't seem like it would change much.

Seriously. Go out and do some research, Lloyd. Do you even have a degree?

[-] 1 points by kammce (20) 3 years ago

Wow! There are too many demands! A lot of them are implausible as well. Demands 1-3 seem very possible. All the rest seem extremely implausible. I may be black but number 8 seems like a stretch. It seems as if it was just tacked on along with a lot of the others. I would just say, take it slow and go with 1-3. Those are the big (very possible) ticket items right there. If you do not keep this demand list short, no will be no demands met or compromised!

[-] 1 points by ericw (3) from San Francisco, CA 3 years ago

REMOVE THIS PAGE IF IT IS NOT AGREED UPON BY OCCUPY WALL ST. THIS IS A BAD REPRESENTATION OF WHO WE ARE.

The only demand that should be here is 1! GET CORPORATE MONEY OUT OF THE GOVERNMENT! GET CORPORATE MONEY OUT OF THE GOVERNMENT!

This alone will bring an equal government for ALL people through sensible bills and policy and government spending. THUS ENDING OUR ECONOMIC DOWNFALL!

We must demand this and an overview of all past bills to eliminate corporate bought exemptions and policies!

[-] 1 points by joyryder (3) 3 years ago

end corporate personhood? anyone?

[-] 1 points by venusfreedom (11) 3 years ago

Demand 11: LOL, getting rid of debt means getting rid of money and yet this still speaks monetary terms with every other demand.

[-] 1 points by DrBixby (2) from Springfield, MO 3 years ago

It is more than apparent, Lloyd J Hart's mommy, forgot to give him his meds when he wrote this. Would someone please go ring Lloyd's mommy and ask her to do so before he sucks the nail off his thumb and chokes on it? Good lord, where the hell were you people educated anyway. Have you zero shame for exposing your dumbness like this?

[-] 1 points by DrBixby (2) from Springfield, MO 3 years ago

It is more than apparent, Lloyd J Hart's mommy, forgot to give him his meds when he wrote this. Would someone please go ring Lloyd's mommy and ask her to do so before he sucks the nail off his thumb and chokes on it? Good lord, where the hell were you people educated anyway. Have you zero shame for exposing your dumbness like this?

[-] 1 points by AgressiveProgressive (1) 3 years ago

I am a mechanic and aint no politician but I can tell you one thing. I really have hope for this movement, but there is a couple of things that people need to get straight, there needs to be a list of demands that is more realistic and still respects the constitution and the same time can bring actual change to "We" the people. Stuff like "Open borders", "Free college", "All loan forgiveness" is fucking ridiculous. Stuff like that is giving a bad name to the movement. This hole county depends on Popular opinion. People are not gonna go for shit like that, and if you aint got the support of the people than you aint got shit. We need stuff like tarrifs on chinese goods,we need to stop the corp. from being able to buy the congress, fine the anyone who hires illegals ( the problem is the exploiter not the exploited) stop the wars and we need to have a different policy on foreign policy, environment and alternative energy, a lot of other things will fall in line. Shit like this you can sell to the masses, but not asking for handouts and "Open borders".

[-] 1 points by SmashCorporateThieves (1) 3 years ago

You forgot two things...1) Elimination of all taxes...Federal,State and Local...on the interest paid out on the trust funds set up for the white kids "occupying" Wall Street 2) One trillion dollars (per year) to provide flea powder and free marijuana for those very same white,trust-funded protesters.

[-] 1 points by spiritofamerica (6) 3 years ago

You should insist on the 28th amemdment!!

[-] 1 points by spiritofamerica (6) 3 years ago

You should insist on the 28th amemdment!!

[-] 1 points by nobledevotie (1) 3 years ago

What the biggest travesty is that, assuming this person is at least 18, they're allowed to vote. What a MORON. I assume you think money just comes from printing presses, and they should just print it and hand it out. Psssst....there is no tooth fairy or Santa Claus. Sorry to ruin that for you too.

[-] 1 points by samueld (1) 3 years ago

Sorry but these demands are utterly absurd and would literally destroy the country. Where on earth do you propose the funding comes from for the trillions you want to pour into infrastructure, ecological restoration and free education for example? You fools clearly lack even the most basic knowledge of economics and budgetary process.

[-] 1 points by epserver (1) 3 years ago

These people are ignorant they have no understanding about how things work. Occupy Wall Street is in a fantasy land.

Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live. No Borders = No USA = No Country

One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America's nuclear power plants. - We dont need more of this we need less of this thank you.

Free college education. -NO... I don't want to be paying more taxes. If you want free education live some place else.

Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment -NO... You should have to work for what you make if you provide equal money to all levels of employment or unemployment if everyone was unemployed who is paying the bills.... answer = NO ONE!

[-] 1 points by Auntymegz (1) 3 years ago

Without reading through this HUGE list of comments (my point being, perhaps someone has already pointed this out), I'd like to point out the paragraph at the very top of the page--which perhaps needs to be in larger, bolder font, which reads:

"Admin note: This is not an official list of demands. This is a forum post submitted by a single user and hyped by irresponsible news/commentary agencies like Fox News and Mises.org. This content was not published by the OccupyWallSt.org collective, nor was it ever proposed or agreed to on a consensus basis with the NYC General Assembly. There is NO official list of demands."

Obviously, this list does not reflect all (or in my opinion even a significant portion) of the 99% demands.

[-] 1 points by willobee11 (1) from Raeford, NC 3 years ago

http://youtu.be/o__P63hcSCQ If you are REALLY ready for change, for Revolution of our country, your Vote is your best weapon. VOTE IN THE PRIMARIES. PLEASE watch and remember that if you want change QUIT VOTING FOR THE SAME FLIP FLOPPERS AND Get RON PAUL Elected! 2012

[-] 1 points by teamosil (0) 3 years ago

IMO this should be taken down. It is, as you note, not the actual demands and the media is treating it as such. Just get rid of it. It's a misrepresentation of the movement.

[-] 1 points by lemonroll (1) 3 years ago

The idea of a demand committee is not bad but I suggest a basic List of Principles to start. That would be a recognition of common ground that would serve as a basis for creating an inclusive vision statement.

[-] 1 points by xenolith (1) 3 years ago

If just one or two of these demands were met, it would totally collapse the US financial system, no question about it. It would only guarantee everyone (including the OWS useful idiots) would face a much harder reality than they face now.

And one more thing, how would you reconcile this serious contradiction;

"Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same [time] bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand."

vs.

"Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America's nuclear power plants."

These two demands completely work in opposition to each other. It would essentially be limiting us to using ethanol, wind, hydro, and solar energy sources. This would result in the entire decimation of the forest, wild-life, and inland waterway ecologies... and it would still not meet all the huge energy demands of the US.

Please people, put down the bong pipe long enough to realize that all these demands completely defy all logic.

[-] 1 points by TheLoather (2) 3 years ago

lol

[-] 1 points by TheLoather (2) 3 years ago

lol

[-] 1 points by bek (1) from Frankfort, KY 3 years ago

I like a lot of these actually, except for a few that are ridiculous (like #11). Thank God this isn't an official list. OWS would look insane.

[-] 1 points by mrseamonkeyofnj (1) 3 years ago

If you add the demand that any woman under the age of thirty who weighs less than 150 lbs and is at least a double D whom I proposition MUST agree to have hot monkey sex with me in the back seat of my car, then I AM WITH YOU GUYS 1000%!!! Long live the revolution!

[-] 1 points by 729zoom (2) 3 years ago

Occupy Chicago's list of demands is much better at addressing the root cause of the above list.

  1. Pass a bill to reinstate Glass-Steagall, a safeguard separating banks' commercial lending and investment operations. "Its repeal in 1999 is considered the major cause of the global financial meltdown of 2008-09," the group states.

  2. Repeal Bush-era tax cuts.

  3. Prosecute "the Wall Street criminals who clearly broke the law and helped cause the 2008 financial crisis."

  4. Overturn a 2010 Supreme Court decision that allows corporations "to contribute unlimited amounts of money to campaigns."

  5. Pass the Warren Buffett rule on fair taxation, close corporate tax loopholes, prohibit hiding funds offshore.

  6. Give the Securities and Exchange Commission stricter regulatory power, strengthen the Consumer Protection Bureau and help victims of predatory lending whose home loans have been foreclosed.

  7. Take steps to limit the influence of lobbyists and eliminate the practice of lobbyists writing legislation.

  8. Eliminate (the) right of former government regulators to work for corporations or industries they once regulated.

  9. Eliminate corporate personhood.

  10. Insist that the Federal Elections Commission "ensure that political candidates are given equal time for free at reasonable intervals during campaign season."

  11. Pass the Fair Elections Now Act.

  12. Forgive student debt.

[-] 1 points by guinness88 (1) 3 years ago

Where are your facts that these will create "so many" jobs? It's nice that you can talk but if you have nothing to back it up then it's invalid. What you are demanding will further bankrupt the US. I mean really, free college education? Look at Europe, they can't afford to give free education because they're too busy going down financially thanks to so many social programs. If people actually could tell the difference between capitalism and corporatism then you protesters would probably be better off. All I get of out of this is that you want a socialist economy and "I wants".

[-] 1 points by cdwebb4042 (1) 3 years ago

DId this guy take HS economics? This would cause a collapse of the entire economy and EVERYONE would be poor. This list would effectively help the unproductive people in society who could just rack up debt and never have to pay it, or live off the government!

[-] 1 points by RB1Kinobe (2) 3 years ago

These demands are all over the place, and some of them are clearly impossible (open borders migration???) and many have nothing to do with the economic crisis created by Wall Street and the banks that have been gambling with OUR money (READ this article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sen-ted-kaufman/the-volcker-rule-and-occu_b_1016053.html?ref=occupy-wall-street).

A MUCH more appropriate list is being compiled here: http://occupywallstreetblog.wordpress.com/demands/

[-] 1 points by Corporalj (1) 3 years ago

What are the chances this guy is a communist? Living wage income regardless of employment? So we can pay all the bums who choose not to help us form a productive society. Wipe all debt off the books? How is anyone supposed to make money on selling homes?

[-] 1 points by Pottsandahalf (141) 3 years ago

lol

[-] 1 points by RodgerMitchell (4) 3 years ago

A far better list is at: http://rodgermmitchell.wordpress.com/2011/10/12/5163/ Rodger Malcolm Mitchell

[-] 1 points by RodgerMitchell (4) 3 years ago

A far better list is at: http://rodgermmitchell.wordpress.com/2011/10/12/5163/

Rodger Malcolm Mitchell

[-] 1 points by tilldeath (1) 3 years ago

Well, I just wanted to leave a comment and offer an opinion of a 24 year old american with 2 years of college and some work experience.

Have you guys ever noticed how short the attention span is of most Americans? We have seemed to forget that a significant amount of our politicians are being backed by these big corporations in election campaigns and such, so inevitably, their policies are going to sway toward these companies. I know that its a very barbaric comparison but in college sports, they have managed a way to keep athletes from receiving any endorsements or any kind of funding from anyone. Why can we not do the same to politicians? Why should their opinions be allowed to be swayed by those that can offer the most money? Like I said, it's barbaric but the policy is not unheard of.

People keep raving about not being able to find a job out of college. Honestly, that is mostly your fault. Just because you went to a college, sat in a desk, and got a 2.3 average does not qualify you to be a significant asset to any company once you get out. There are plenty of interns proving themselves to big time companies by working their butts off everyday and still keeping up with their school work. These companies are happy to hire the ones that worked for them for practically nothing while they were in college. Also, you cannot get a degree in underwater basket weaving and expect to find a decent job. Just because you have a degree doesn't make you smart. Having a degree in a demanding job field makes you smart. Knowing what jobs are marketable and what the demand is, that's smart. Too many people in this country are self entitled and they want everything their way or no way. "I want to live close to my parents. I want to do what I want to do. I want to be a family man." If you are wanting to make a lot of money in this country then those are all contradicting ideas. You see, if everyone accepted that you are going to have to work really hard your whole life and one day die, then maybe we could get ourselves out of this mess or maybe we would see that we aren't in as big of a mess as we think. Unfortunately, it's not popular for a politician to stand on a stage, while talking to the American people, and tell them that they are responsible for their own actions. That a lot of the job decreases and their misfortune is because they are lazy, unwilling to put forth effort, easily defeated, or unwilling to adapt to the world around them. You cannot be a family man and make millions. You can try but unless you strike gold, it's not going to happen. You cannot get high and drunk throughout your 4 years of college while studying economics and come out with a $80k a year job. Life isn't always fair but you have to make it work to your advantage. You may actually have to sacrifice some things but the sooner you come to realize that, the better.

Outlaw credit agencies, aye? I'm sure that would be great for you, but, you see, I have been financially responsible every since I was 18. I have been paying my debts on time and not letting my debt to income ratio getting anywhere near close to 1/1. I don't have to get a new car every 3 years. And I didn't have a car over $15,000 until I was 23. I paid all my debts and I kept emergency money in the bank. Crazy ideology, huh? I have no clue as to why someone would save money to have at least an 8 month safety net. Craziness I tell you. So, with that being said, NO! You will not take my good credit and wipe it clean. Unlike you, I have worked my ass off to keep mine in good standing. But I do appreciate the offer.

My name is Ryan Farmer and I am a United States Soldier. I do what I do, not because it is easy, but because I know that I must sacrifice for my family to be successful. I love my freedom, I love my country, and I love my family and I am willing to fight for it all. What are you fighting for?

[-] 1 points by KenP (3) 3 years ago

The protestors or whatever they call themselves are peeing up a rope. The problem with our country doesn’t start with the bank or Wall Street? Like everything else it starts with the politicians that make the rules for the banks, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mack, the Post Office, Medicare, Medicaid and the like. Until the political process in this country is reformed, we’ll continue to have the rich and famous rule and that is they want to become is more rich and famous. Until it is not profitable to work for “We the Peoples”, the politicians will continue to rape and plunder the rest of us. They make the rules and enforce them. We sit around waiting on the next election to save us—don’t hold your breath. All the next election does is replace one set of Moonbats with another and the process goes on. Until we get some teeth in our efforts and get reasonable with our demands, nothing is going to change. Of recent memory is Scott Brown. Oh he was suppose to be a mover and shaker. Have you heard from him since he got elected? Not a word that I’ve seen on the budget and debt crisis. I think he’s being fitted for his Moonbat suit. Reform must start at the top, after all they work for us. Why should they vote on their own pay raise? That’s a joke. I believe the only ones that vote NO are the ones coming up for election NEXT. Why should they run their own ethics investigation? That’s like letting the fox guard the hen house. Until we get smart and do something with it, we are gonna continue to be their puppet on a string and be jerked around till earth’s end. Think about it, a healthcare reform bill no one read until it was passed if then. We should have been up in arms when we discovered they were passing bills no one had read. Yet, we sat around on our duff waiting on someone else to take care of our business, and they did. Until reform starts at the top, we’re wasting our time. Congressional Reform Act of 2011

  1. No Tenure / No Pension. Congressmen collect a salary while in off ice and receive no pay when they are out of office.

  2. Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social Security. All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system and Congress participates with the American people. It may not be used for any other purpose.

  3. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do.

  4. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise. Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.

  5. Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the same health care system as the American people.

  6. Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the American people.

  7. All contracts with past and present Congressmen are void effective 1/1/12. The American people did not make this contract with Congressmen. Congress men made all these contracts for themselves. Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers envisioned citizen legislators, so ours should serve their term(s), then go home and back to work.

[-] 1 points by wakeupandsmellthecoffee (1) 3 years ago

How about this idea?

Step One..... Quit bitching and moaning. Get a job. Learn something about rendering a service for which people are willing to pay money. invest in your own education and your own future. Discover how to do something unique. Invent something cool new like Mr. Jobs did, or find someone like this who you would like to work for. With these brilliant ideas in hand , learn how to start a company. Learn how to put a business plan together. Get financing from private investors and maybe even one of those scary mean bankers. Work 80 hours a week until your dream is off the ground. One day, hire thousands of workers and pay them $20.00, and yes, maybe even $200 dollars an hour. Offer these workers great benefits like almost free health care, and ways to share you profit ( there's that evil word). Decide to make things that do no harm to the environment. Give as much of your wealth, now that you have some, back to the causes you think need them the most. Start a foundation for a just cause and be the voice for a people who have no voice. Mentor young people on what success looks like. Be happy, content, fulfilled, excited about the future.

Steo Two.....Demand excellence from your self, and those you chose to work with. Demand of yourself, that every thing you do and your company does is guided by principles that are honorable, fair, and just. Demand of yourself that you live each day with a heart filled with gratitude for the success you have been able to enjoy. Demand that you never again expect something else, or someone else make you feel worth while, accepted, appreciated or happy.

Step Three.....Mentor young people about what success looks like. Help them learn how to be happy, content, fulfilled, excited about the future.

Or you can.....

Keep Raging against some unknown machine. Think up 13 new demands to add to the list of the existing 13 demands that are being taken so seriously by.... just who again? Be a perpetual Arab Spring groupie. Stand in line and wait for "Wall Street Writes a Check to Their Favorite Protester Day". Or just enjoy the energy rush that comes from always being angry, bitter and jaded.

Or....when you decide this Occupation thing is not what you thought it was cracked up to be....when you are tired of being stuck in that %99 category you invented ( You know that idea is really just kookie marketing...you really think that people believe that only one person in a hundred is happy with their life in the US? We would need to build allot more bridges for people to jump off of ) If you really are ready for your own personal revolution...

Please refer to Step One.

[-] 1 points by KenP (3) 3 years ago

The protestors or whatever they call themselves are peeing up a rope. The problem with our country doesn’t start with the bank or Wall Street? Like everything else it starts with the politicians that make the rules for the banks, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mack, the Post Office, Medicare, Medicaid and the like. Until the political process in this country is reformed, we’ll continue to have the rich and famous rule and that is they want to become is more rich and famous. Until it is not profitable to work for “We the Peoples”, the politicians will continue to rape and plunder the rest of us. They make the rules and enforce them. We sit around waiting on the next election to save us—don’t hold your breath. All the next election does is replace one set of Moonbats with another and the process goes on. Until we get some teeth in our efforts and get reasonable with our demands, nothing is going to change. Of recent memory is Scott Brown. Oh he was suppose to be a mover and shaker. Have you heard from him since he got elected? Not a word that I’ve seen on the budget and debt crisis. I think he’s being fitted for his Moonbat suit. Reform must start at the top, after all they work for us. Why should they vote on their own pay raise? That’s a joke. I believe the only ones that vote NO are the ones coming up for election NEXT. Why should they run their own ethics investigation? That’s like letting the fox guard the hen house. Until we get smart and do something with it, we are gonna continue to be their puppet on a string and be jerked around till earth’s end. Think about it, a healthcare reform bill no one read until it was passed if then. We should have been up in arms when we discovered they were passing bills no one had read. Yet, we sat around on our duff waiting on someone else to take care of our business, and they did. Until reform starts at the top, we’re wasting our time. Congressional Reform Act of 2011

  1. No Tenure / No Pension. Congressmen collect a salary while in off ice and receive no pay when they are out of office.

  2. Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social Security. All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system and Congress participates with the American people. It may not be used for any other purpose.

  3. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do.

  4. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise. Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.

  5. Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the same health care system as the American people.

  6. Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the American people.

  7. All contracts with past and present Congressmen are void effective 1/1/12. The American people did not make this contract with Congressmen. Congress men made all these contracts for themselves. Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers envisioned citizen legislators, so ours should serve their term(s), then go home and back to work.

[-] 1 points by KenP (3) 3 years ago

The protestors or whatever they call themselves are peeing up a rope. The problem with our country doesn’t start with the bank or Wall Street? Like everything else it starts with the politicians that make the rules for the banks, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mack, the Post Office, Medicare, Medicaid and the like. Until the political process in this country is reformed, we’ll continue to have the rich and famous rule and that is they want to become is more rich and famous. Until it is not profitable to work for “We the Peoples”, the politicians will continue to rape and plunder the rest of us. They make the rules and enforce them. We sit around waiting on the next election to save us—don’t hold your breath. All the next election does is replace one set of Moonbats with another and the process goes on. Until we get some teeth in our efforts and get reasonable with our demands, nothing is going to change. Of recent memory is Scott Brown. Oh he was suppose to be a mover and shaker. Have you heard from him since he got elected? Not a word that I’ve seen on the budget and debt crisis. I think he’s being fitted for his Moonbat suit. Reform must start at the top, after all they work for us. Why should they vote on their own pay raise? That’s a joke. I believe the only ones that vote NO are the ones coming up for election NEXT. Why should they run their own ethics investigation? That’s like letting the fox guard the hen house. Until we get smart and do something with it, we are gonna continue to be their puppet on a string and be jerked around till earth’s end. Think about it, a healthcare reform bill no one read until it was passed if then. We should have been up in arms when we discovered they were passing bills no one had read. Yet, we sat around on our duff waiting on someone else to take care of our business, and they did. Until reform starts at the top, we’re wasting our time. Congressional Reform Act of 2011

  1. No Tenure / No Pension. Congressmen collect a salary while in off ice and receive no pay when they are out of office.

  2. Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social Security. All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system and Congress participates with the American people. It may not be used for any other purpose.

  3. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do.

  4. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise. Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.

  5. Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the same health care system as the American people.

  6. Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the American people.

  7. All contracts with past and present Congressmen are void effective 1/1/12. The American people did not make this contract with Congressmen. Congress men made all these contracts for themselves. Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers envisioned citizen legislators, so ours should serve their term(s), then go home and back to work.

[-] 1 points by KevT (1) 3 years ago

Part of Purpose of Occupy 1. RESIDUAL INCOME FOR WORKERS AS COMPANY FLOURISHES & EARNS INCOME> workers help grow company, company to provide for workers. 2. CREATE HUMAN PROGRESS JOBS programs IN SCIENCE & RESEARCH> work in teams to find solutions to diseases which is open to the interest of the people and winning teams are paid. ei. Hunger in Africa, Space Research, Inhabitting Oceans. To dissapate many of world's problems through working together and being PAID for it more publically

It is because of corps and biz today's world live for consumerism. Once global economy is fixed, the global focus should be advancing purposeful techs and programs to preserve humanity such as space programs etc . Therefore, the "laser-like focus" should be for progressive Science- it is our duty to preserve human race and to flourish by working together to solve many problems that occur today.

[-] 1 points by barkway (2) 3 years ago

Better than so-called real ones if you ask me

[-] 1 points by bsteinwand (3) 3 years ago

Positive lending practices:

The goal of lending institutions should be to help people buy their homes and start small businesses, and not to create huge returns for stock holders! These banks and lending institutions are propped up by the tax payers and central banks. They make risky bets. When they win we the people get nothing. When they lose we are required to bail them out. The banks hold OUR MONEY! We want a say in how they use it! We want lending practices changed to support our goals, which clearly stated are to help working people buy their homes and to start and grow small to medium size businesses.

[-] 1 points by bsteinwand (3) 3 years ago

Vigorous Investigation and Prosecution of the Criminals While the global economic crisis was caused be the fundamental flaws of capitalism our current crisis was set of by a confederation of conspiracies-to-get-rich. Investment banks colluded with ratings agencies to create complex financial products they knew would fail, swindling pension funds into buying them, and then betting against their own financial products. A generation lost their life savings and the culprits still have their money! We want the criminals’ prosecuted and the stolen returned to the pension funds.

[-] 1 points by bsteinwand (3) 3 years ago

On Demand #1, a call to end free trade is unrealistic, it is not something we can all agree on, and it hurts some while helping others. Lets not forget our movement is global now! What we should advocate is fair trade.

Free trade is not enough! We the people demand fairness from our trading partners. Emerging economies, like China, utilize child and slave labor, outlaw organized labor, refuse to pay for intellectual property, and keep their currencies artificially low. We the people demand that International institutions and sovereign trade policies must require that all nations benefiting from free trade must adhere to a common set of values, which include the right for labor to organize, child labor laws, floating currency evaluation, paying for intellectual property, and a minimum wage.

[-] 1 points by foxymophandlemomma (1) 3 years ago

So let me get this straight. If I just committed financial suicide by getting a million dollar mortgage when I work at McDonalds and I'm about to default, I now own the house outright, plus the maserati in my driveway that I can't afford, plus my racked up visa card? Plus I now get $20/hour at my job. This sounds like a great idea! So then if I sell my house for a million dollars, does the next person get the same deal? Or do they have to come up with the money? This ridiculous list of demands erodes the credibility of the whole movement. I am all for financial reform, but gimmee a break here. Maybe we should ask for things that could actually happen or make sense if we want results.

[-] 1 points by gsmith68 (1) 3 years ago

What about cuts to the $1.2 TRILLION annual "defense" budget? That's got to be on my list. And MAJOR cuts, in the 70 - 85% range. That money could fund many needs at home, including infrastructure repair, college education, and healthcare for all. I don't agree with open borders. No nation in the world has open borders. It is not realistic or necessary, nor will it garner much support.

[-] 1 points by Pabitra (3) from Kolkata, West Bengal 3 years ago

Interesting! I am not going to comment about the feasibility of the demands and will acknowledge they form a starting point of a discussion and debate (with skilled moderation, of course). Just as a suggestion, in essence some of the demands are global in nature and seen from a purely economic point of view are intricately related with economic and political trends throughout the world - just domestic American populism cannot change the picture. Secondly, it may be wishful to demand an economic system to change without realizing lifestyle practices to be in tandem with the world's average. The 99% is desirous of luxury and wasteful spending habits just like the 1% - they just cannot afford that. Please consider this. An average American spends roughly 18,000 watts of energy (annual average and considering both direct and embedded forms) where as the world average is roughly 2000 watts. It is also to time to think if such high disparity is lifestyle (which is certainly linked with economy) is sustainable. I hold American enterprise and freedom in high regard. So, I hope they will not back out from asking the first questions first.

[-] 1 points by daverose13 (1) 3 years ago

Short demand or instruction .DEFEAT CORPORATE PUPPETS!

[-] 1 points by RobertDangerAllen (14) from Vero Beach, FL 3 years ago

This looks like something written by a PoliSci major. I hate to say it, but an openly Marxist PoliSci major.

Here's why:

1 is absurd. $20/hr minimum wage would F up so much. If min wage jumps up, people will be laid off.

2 is strange. Not really sensical.

3, Living wage income, paid by whom?

4, Free college, paid by whom? There would be mass layoffs at all universities, quality of education would plummet, and HS students would need to apply to a 'lottery' to get selected for schools. Free = stupid.

5 is silly. We can't manifest a "fast track program" to overcome technical impossibilities.

6 is overeager. Don't spend money that will not generate returns! $1tril is a bit much for a net loss.

7, Idyllic, but silly. Pass restrictions and let nature restore herself for 30 years. No need to impose.

8, Racial/gender rights? WTF does that even mean? We are all entitled to the same rights, with only one exception. Affirmative action needs to be thrown out. THEN we would be equal.

9, Open borders is stupid, too. It would normalize wages globally, and that would drop standard of living for everyone. It would collapse every modern economy in 5 years (infinite workforce means decreased wage).

Demand #10 sounds good. First one.

11 is lunacy.

12, we need credit reporting agencies. They serve a purpose.

13, wtf is he talking about? Unions choke companies and industries.

Following these demands would collapse everything everywhere at once.

[-] 1 points by RobertDangerAllen (14) from Vero Beach, FL 3 years ago

Our single general demand: "No taxation without representation."

Our government does not represent the wishes, feelings, or culture of the American people. They are not our representatives.

This movement must not end. It cannot end. Failure means death for millions. We cannot fail.

1-Require the immediate return of all bailout capital, and use it to pay off all civilian debts, even if at deep discount.

2-Expand antitrust laws to include any single company that makes more than 2.5% of the US Government's one-year revenue for three consecutive years. (~$112bil/yr)

3-Designate lobbying and filibustering as forms of treason.

4-Limit congressional appointments to 2 terms.

5-End both wars, redeploy all US troops as humanitarian aid for the next 3 years.

6-Establish a flat tax with no exceptions, all people and corporations taxed evenly.

7-Increase public education salaries by 50%, double the budget for teachers nationally.

8-Invest Gov't funds ($bil) into Venture Capital firms in the nation.

9-End all non-essential subsidies; Outlaw all GM foods & terminator seeds.

10-Restrict profits on all medical services & products. Subsidize all of it for everyone, immediately.

1-Paying off civilian debts will free up spending money to cover living expenses. The bailout money would end up in the same place, but no one would be paying interest on it. This also frees loan capital for new credit.

2-Breaking up conglomerates will produce more mid-management and upper-management jobs, as well as increase competition, increase supply-chain diversity, increase product selection – All of which helps stimulate economic growth. Any company that generates that much revenue exists as a threat to our sovereignty. We cannot permit our nation to persist as a puppet government.

3-Lobbying is thinly veiled bribery, filibustering is a means of stymieing the legislative process. Both should be obvious to anyone as violations of due process, attempts to subvert the legal system against the tenets of our great nation.

4-Professional politicians ruined Rome. They have ruined America. We need a constant stream of new blood in congress to prevent

5-Ending both wars will relieve our national debt fears, and sending them to perform humanitarian aid will show the world that Americans do have souls.

6-A flat tax for all people and corporations would make our national tax revenue explode, even with a tax rate below what the non-rich already pay.

7-Enhancing public education salaries and budgets would allow for more teachers to be hired, meaning more college grads are employed everywhere, and they get paid enough to live on.

8-Venture Capital funds invest in startups and small businesses, which account for the vast majority of companies in the US and produce many, many jobs. The returns on these investments will provide additional revenue, perhaps even enough to save Social Security.

9-Subsidies drain the gov't, GM food causes a whole host of direct environmental problems and indirect health dangers, and terminator seeds harm farmers.

10-Restrict profits on medical services and products, healthcare costs will plummet, making government-subsidized healthcare a feasible option.

[-] 1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 3 years ago

Congratulation on your Iserbyt Award, for excellence in fringe, crackpot ideology.

[-] 1 points by CareBear (2) 3 years ago

Demand fourteen: Everyone gets one rainbow, a giant lollipop and a unicorn. Demand fifteen: We abolish the US dollar and use hugs and smiles as a medium of monetary exchange. Demand Sixteen: everyone gets infinity money for being true to themselves. I think these addtional demands will solve all the world's issues and result in worldwide peace and love. spirit love to eveyone..

[-] 1 points by CareBear (2) 3 years ago

Demand fourteen: Everyone gets one rainbow, a giant lollipop and a unicorn. Demand fifteen: We abolish the US dollar and use hugs and smiles as a medium of monetary exchange. Demand Sixteen: everyone gets infinity money for being true to themselves. I think these addtional demands will solve all the world's issues and result in worldwide peace and love. spirit love to eveyone..

[-] 1 points by seanmac71 (1) 3 years ago

American industry has been the powerhouse of the world since WWII, and I agree it has faltered due to government regulation and idiotic policy making; however, guaranteeing a living wage income for all regardless of employment will completely destroy American industry by eliminating any incentive to work in turn making the demand for free college pointless because if there's no incentive to work because the government is paying you just because you're guaranteed a living wage, how many people will actually attend college?

[-] 1 points by tooheymomster (1) from West Brookfield, MA 3 years ago

Interesting article - the Proposed List of Demands had me laughing on some points. But I have to admit, 4 out of the 11 of the "ideas" could possibly help. Only parts of each of the suggestions I agree with and make sense to me the the other parts are just silly. Of course, demanding isn't the way to ask or suggest anything. Maybe this person should change that word to...ideas?? I enjoyed reading what everyone's opinions on this were. Here are my opinions on these matters: I agree that an increase in minimum wage is necessary and should go up, however, $20 is very steep. How does anyone, let alone a family survive on minimum wage when the cost of living has gone up? It makes sense that if gas, dairy, bread, food etc. goes up, so should wages to compensate for this. Then again, that wouldn't be "compensation", that would be "breaking even" enough just to make ends meet the same way before prices of "basic necessities" or as they are now considered "luxuries" were raised. I think this person is on to something when they said Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. What I think would work better is to make the prices/fees affordable and the same for everybody. There are people paying outrageously high amounts of money ie; the self-employed. Making it affordable would certainly benefit the elderly. We are all aware that they are having a hard enough time making ends meet and it's usually the medications that take the back burner in the scope of finances. Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment - it already exists - with an expiration date. In the off chance that you happen to find yourself unemployed or can't seem to find a job in this economy for whatever miscellaneous reason(s), it's called Unemployment Benefits, although Employment is the only real benefit. There is also Transitional Assistance, which helps provide cash and/or food benefits to families with children, elders and disabled. Many are the working poor with limited income or those who are temporarily unemployed.
Free College Education - They should have elaborated more...I believe that already exists. Maybe not completely "free" but there is some form of financial aid to make it more affordable. Whether it be need-based, merit-based in the form of federal, state or college-based assistance. Racial and gender equal rights amendment. I know it would only be speculation but what do you suppose they meant by this? Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. This makes sense but isn't ever going to happen. Not even through bankruptcy. The only loophole in that one is death. I'm guessing they think everyone should be entitled to a "bail out" also. Which would go hand in hand with their suggested Outlaw all credit reporting agencies. The world doesn't work like that. Unfortunately, the economy revolves around credit, our credit revolves around our credit scores which revolve around the credit reporting agencies. So good luck on that one.

[-] 1 points by FairShare (90) 3 years ago

I see a lot of issues welling to the surface and that is a good thing. Energy costs is one of the very most important issues facing our nation. Pollution comes into focus as the two go hand in hand. What caused the nuclear incidents? Corruption and cutting corners. Nuclear energy is actually the cleanest and most viable resource we have at this point. I'm not happy with that but its the truth. Coal...what about the TVA slug spill and the destruction of Appalachia? Oil...Yellowstone River, Prince William Sound, and the giant deadzone in the Gulf of Mexico. Alternative energies are important and Big Oil and Coal are running a smear campaign of Epic proportions to stop the progress. They drop the price of oil when green starts to run. It will be decades before solar is cheaper than nuclear, or is it? The problem is the clean up afterwards. 100 million gallons of contaminated waste water and 30,000 tons of spent fuel rods laying around everywhere. This amount climbs by about 3000 tons per year. Two companies USEC and Areva enrich uranium with no plans to recycle. I say BS. One company already has a 2 billion dollar loan guarantee from the DOE the other is trying. They have produced the technology to process it at a 95 percent reduction in cost. Scientists created this beast now its time to fix it. Both companies should be made to come up with pilot programs to recycle and reduce this waste as much as possible in order to get these loans. Nuclear is clean, the waste is not. You want more financial burden drop nuclear energy. Until you can get solar down to 7 cents a watt...get my drift. Its time the government cleaned up by creating new technologies to re-use or neutralize this waste. Solar will advance but it will take decades. Geothermal is good too but there is very limited well sites. The EPA is one thing that should not be allowed to fail in this country and the DOE needs to manage its resources better.

[-] 1 points by SaneMiddleClassGuy (1) 3 years ago

You are delusional. Free college? Debt forgiveness? Open borders? Free money? $20 minimum wage? (why do you need a minimum wage with income regardless of employment??

Why not demand unicorns and flying puppies? You need an adjustment in your meds.

[-] 1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 3 years ago

[-] 1 points by hopiakuta (11) from Desert Hot Springs, CA 3 years ago

Any new policy should involve negotiation. Any negotiation requires opinions.

We should have a disability access liberty agenda: for all society; for OccupyWallStreet; for OccupyTogether; for the meetup website.

Abolish electoral college.

Abolish corporate personhood.

Be an abolitionist.

DonFphrnqTaub Persina

[-] 1 points by gmolstre34 (1) 3 years ago

Hey Lloyd, why not print a million dollars for every person in the country and then everyone will be rich! Is this Lloyd from Dumb and Dumber?

[-] 1 points by graffidi (1) 3 years ago

Demand One is in direct contradiction to Demand Nine. Having trade tariffs means in a sense closing borders, and having free labor migration means opening borders. In a sense what you're asking is to collect all the wealth of the world: be able to make money all over the world, and be able to trade with the world while making the most profit. So, do you want to have closed borders or open borders? You have to choose, you physically can't get both.

[-] 1 points by TheBlackPaper (1) 3 years ago

TheBlackPaper http://pastebin.com/4jLQkqG8 http://i54.twitgoo.com/34ijo8l.jpg

WANTED Individuals to Introduce State Ballot Measures

Tax the Rich Secede from the Union Abolish Federal Reserve Legalize Industrial Hemp Water & Resource Protection Outlaw Marcellus Shale Drilling Ban the Sale and Growth of GMO Crops Required Yearly Increase of State Minimum Wage Public Health Care & Abolishment of Social Security Constitutional Amendment for Fair & Equal Marriage Act Constitutional Amendment to Abolish Controlled Substance Laws Food Labeling Laws to Require Labeling of GMO & Animal Products Creation of Electromagnetic Radiation Refugee Zones Free of Wireless Technology

HEREBY Request public assistance and immediate formation of Points Of Change:

OrganizeNow: Utilize technology. Organize locally. Form local councils & state militias.

FinanceNow: File Bankruptcy. Open credit cards, lines of credit, loans. Form Corporations.

BillThemNow: Search and Click Sponsored Results. Pay bills in small increments.

TurnOutTheLights: Turn off main household circuit breaker for at least 1 hour at 4:20 AM/PM.

DrugWarFightsBack: Immediate mass public action to combat controlled substance laws.

Apply Within Always Surf Anonymously (torproject.org) Be Peace – Be Love – Be the Change

[-] 1 points by iamme (1) 3 years ago

I read this with an open mind, not knowing what exactly these people were protesting. After reading I can only come to the conclusion that these people obviously didn't take advantage of the "FREE" (tax payer paid for) education through high school. Seriously, free college. I can think of sooo many reasons why that alone is a dumb idea. as well as the get rid of debt, all debt. HAHAHA. seriously people. maybe you should use all this free time and go get a job and start paying taxes.

[-] 1 points by changeinmotion (20) from Portland, ME 3 years ago

please turn this around and put up a real focused list. Up this anti by a few notches and add some dimension and intelligence now - need to improve on the overall plan for what you have accomplished is first step - now design and produce an effective plan to manipulate change - you guys have only just begun - to finish you need organization and structure to come into play.

[-] 1 points by bkvwd57 (1) 3 years ago

I would prioritize these demands and some are very unimportant at this point in time where others are extremely important right now. 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 10, 13 do now. 9 is detrimental. 11 and 12 are great but a pipe dream. 8 is good but will take a while. 7 while important is not as immediately crucial as the 1 trillion in infrastructure spending.

[-] 1 points by michaelmelio (1) 3 years ago

You might consider a Democracy Amendment to the Constitution that outlaws corporate participation in politics, that defines "person" as a human being alone (not corporations), and that entitles political participation by persons alone, that bans all private contributions to political campaigns, that institutes publicly financed elections universally, that mandates press coverage of all political debates, that reinstates the press as a public trust to be used for the public good, that assures worker rights in the workplace, and that bans monopoly capitalism.

[-] 1 points by hazenc (1) 3 years ago

Most of these are great, particularly the top few. I think this movement is wonderful and I'm so glad to see that so many people are supporting this and feel as I do about the government, country, etc.

I don't agree with eliminating all dept or credit agencies. This will just allow people to take advantage of the system, and be unfair to those who worked through college to pay for it vs. those who just took loans and want an easy way to not pay it back.

[-] 1 points by MiddleClassPhoenix (7) 3 years ago

VIII. Equality for the American Worker A. Corporations and the American Worker – At NO point in time should an American-based company’s employee base EVER be enlisted with greater than 50% of NON-Citizen workers. There can be a mixture of Temporary Residents with PROPER permits; however this number can NEVER be EQUAL to, or GREATER than 50% of the Corporation’s total number of Employees.
B. American Worker Acquisition act – If there is an opening within an American-based Company and that company chooses to fill the position with an American Worker(American Citizen), then there should be a Tax Allowance for said company for whatever additional cost the company may have absorbed for the employee’s acquisition.

IX. NON-American Worker Socio-Economics and Employment A. Money Transfer Surcharges – There should be the creation of Government-imposed surcharge(to increase programmatically) of ALL money Transfers originating within the U.S. and terminating outside of the U.S. This Surcharge would be imposed upon the Third Party Entity at the source(i.e. Western Union, Money Gram, etc.) and should be encouraged to be passed on the customers. B. Money Transfer Surcharges Exemptions – There should be the allowance of exemptions made if the money is being transferred from one American-based location to another outside of the U.S. provided it is owned by an American-based company.(i.e. from one bank within the U.S. to another outside of the U.S.)

X. Banking Institutions Restitutions to the American People A. Ideas anyone… 

Email: isc1970@yahoo.com

[-] 1 points by MiddleClassPhoenix (7) 3 years ago

IV. College Education A. Corporate Chosen-Government Backed, Tuition Assistance Program – To reconnect corporations to the “grass roots” American Student/Employee/Prospect there should be the Creation of a new Tuition Assistance Program that would allow “Qualified” companies to canvass, court, be reimbursed for travel compensation associated thereof, and even reimbursed paid internship of “Qualified” college students. These should be students at least in second-year or further and considering a career in the same industry as the company. B. Corporate Contributions – Companies that choose to contribute to the above-mentioned Program should be given Tax Allowance considerations for their Good-Will and contributions. These considerations should be directly proportionate to the size of their contributions up to a certain amount in a Three-year period.

V. Energy Options A. This should NOT be a topic discussed in this Manifesto as it in itself would require its own no doubt LENGTHY proposal.

VI. Budget Increase A. Again this is not a topic that should be included in this document.

VII. Ecology Budget Appropriations A. This should NOT be a topic discussed in this Manifesto, as it does nothing but serve to Distract from the Focus of THIS conversation.

[-] 1 points by MiddleClassPhoenix (7) 3 years ago

II. HealthCare A. Government Privatized HealthCare Oversight Agency – EVERY American should have access to fair and decent Medical treatment, surgeries-no matter how Preventative or Invasive, medicines, alternative procedures, etc. And to Insure this happens, there should come to pass the creation of a new Government Sponsored(preferably Federal AND State, as this would help with Logistics and Fluidity in time management) Healthcare Oversight Agency. This Agency would respond to, investigate, adjudicate, and represent if necessary any Citizen that felt as though they had legitimate grievance with said HealthCare Provider, be it a Private or Public Institution. B. Medical Facilities Draw Fund – To assist and with Medical Institutions undoubtedly increased cost due to the compliance of Policies from the formation of this new Agency, there should be the creation and allowance of a Government backed NON-repayable Fund for the Facilities Operations. However in order to access this Fund the Facility among other requirements MUST be able to show the following: 1. That the service provided was done so in good faith by the Institution and was absolutely necessary in order for them to be in compliance with the new Agency’s Policies and regulations. 2. That the service could have/would have jeopardized the Institution’s ability to operate in a profitable manner. 3. There should be a limit to the amount of draws an Institution can access in a year based upon the AMOUNT of citizens that the Institution serves in that particular community.

III. Guaranteed Wages A. There should be NO changes or modifications to the existing Wage/Unemployment claim system in place now.

[-] 1 points by MiddleClassPhoenix (7) 3 years ago

Mr Hart, your seriousness and passion should only be taken one way: that the war on the middleclass and the casualties inflicted thereof have finally struck a chord in the American people. And while I applaud your courage, I must admonish your list of demands, or at least your reasoning behind the GOAL(s) of this list. It would seem that these demands are exactly that, demands. Traditionally demands are made from a Victorious side in a conflict, and imposed unto one or more defeated parties. Well Mr Hart the “movement” has just started to receive national attention, think of it more as a BIRTH than a Victory…in other words the battle has JUST STARTED. However I do not believe that a “battle” should be NOT our first option, but rather viewed as a consequence of a failed negotiation. Why the very word Democracy implies Negotiation, and as I previously mentioned there is very little room for negotiation in the term “Demand”. However having worked extensively for Fortune 500 companies in my career I would recall what one Senior Partner told me that I feel is appropriate for this situation. Having reviewed internal processes of the company and finding the flaws in them, I brought these to his attention feeling so very accomplished indeed. Before I could leave his office however he said to me, “Cliff…what good is this?? So, you told me what’s wrong…but you didn’t tell me how to FIX it!” Well I never forgot that moment and I shall try in Ernest to do the same for your(our) manifesto. Again Mr Hart please remember my friend that this is done in the very spirit of Democracy and negotiation, and as such is MEANT for critiquing and debate. However I simply hope it can perhaps serve as a suitable base-line for our cause. By the way, feel free to contact me as i have included my email at the end of this thread so that I can tell you a little as to why I am so motivated to your cause(our ) on a personal level. Shall we begin, and for simplicity I have included my Manifesto in Outline form addressing your original line items in my own.

Manifesto of Establishment of the General Majority(because after all, that’s what we are):

I. Restoration and Protection of the Domestic Worker A. Tariffs – Since there is an allowance for tariffs within the guidelines of the WTO membership, congress should adopt and enforce these for ALL imported NON-defensive market products. B. Tariff Import Exemption – To encourage the RE-migration of the current trend of companies relocating facilities outside of the U.S.(due to higher profit potential), an exemption should be created which would allow any company to claim exempt status to these new Tariffs if they currently own, have owned(within a certain time frame), or have proposed a VIABLE business plan to own facilities located within the United States. As this would help to offset any of the additional expenses or even loss of sales from line I. A. Dually it would also help open additional dialogue at least of these new facilities creating jobs within the U.S. C. Minimum Wage Increases – To increase the minimum wage drastically would DIS-courage the very idea of companies both Domestic and Foreign re-migrating back to the U.S. There should be no drastic or immediate increase on minimum wage, or at least be not the focus of this conversation.

[-] 1 points by cyal8r (1) from Clarksville, TN 3 years ago

I was a sympathizer until I read this... this is some dumb shit.

[-] 1 points by pat1944 (3) 3 years ago

Lloyd, I think it was well thought out and I'm hoping those 1 percenters realize that a 2 class system of, the rich and those that serve the rich, will always have the same end result.

I can't really agree with forgiving all debt (especially the foreign debt the Republicans ran up over the last 30 years) and the debt of those irresponsible persons that just cannot help themselves to have the latest crap or gizmo or model vehicle, or those that decided to live well beyond their means when purchasing a home. I suggest we force those Lenders to refinance every one of those home loans at 1 percent interest rate over a 40 or 50 year term. I belive that would lower the monthly payments enough that a responsible person working 40 hours a week can afford. For those who could show that they were able to make their monthly payments and subsequently lost their job should be given debt deferrment until a job can be found or provided under a major government bail out / jobs program (at least $10 trillion) of the people. Those that sill cannot afford those terms probably should not have purchased a home in the first place.

I think the rich will never voluntarily agree to being fairly taxed which should be at around 75% rate. I foresee the Forbes' list of the richest 500 Americans eventually becoming a "hit list".

I think those responsible for the collapse of the world economies should be arrested and all of their assets seized and returned to the treasury.

Finally, I think Obama/Biden should resign as president/vice president and Alan Greyson/Dennis Kucinich should be appointed for the next 8 years to undo every peice of legislation enacted under Bush/ Cheney, every appointment terminated (including those to the supreme court), and an immediate end to war and occupation of foreign nations. Finally, Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and the rest of the Bush/Cheney bunch should be tried for war crimes and hung with the same rope they used on Saddam.

[-] 1 points by riveter (1) 3 years ago

Occupy should be focusing on the core of the problem which is how money is created (debt based economy) and the relationship between the Fed and the US Treasury. This is where reform should be focused. A place to start would be to study what happened when Lincoln proposed the Greenback. Until the way the economy is structured is changed and we do away with debt-based economy, those who control the money system will syphon off the resources that really belong to the people.

Read Web of Debt by Ellen Brown to start. SO IMPORTANT.

[-] 1 points by sjsmithers87 (1) from Bernalillo, NM 3 years ago

Here's one demand I think would solve a lot of problems: Publicly funded elections. Get the money out of the electoral system. Set up a system where each candidate is allotted the same amount of money to spend in the campaigns -- no donations accepted from any person or company, and no personal funding of one's own campaign is allowed. No cash, gifts, or lunches, etc. may be accepted. Debates on public airwaves for all the candidates. Candidates can stop the fund raising madness, focus on legislating, and they will only be beholden to their constituents -- not their wealthiest donors.

[-] 1 points by NancyPelosiIsHot (2) 3 years ago

I think all of these are great!!! How has it taken so long for the voice of reason and equality to be heard in this country? While I think all of these are obviously great and would drastically have a positive effect on the nation I feel like a few were omitted. Please allow me the honor to share this great forum with you and add to the list: 14) The "1 percent" or wealthiest Americans be forced to pay reperations to ALL other classes of US Citizens in an amount deemed apropriate by the federal government and all taxes moving forward, to make up for their exploitation of workers and shady business dealings. The other 99 percent of the population will no longer pay taxes of any kind. 15) If you agree with that or any of the other 13 demands that you be immediately admitted to the nearest mental or substance abuse facility in your area free of charge because you are clinically ill. Seriously, did these "demands" look more reasonable on your mom's basement computer monitor as they were being typed amidst a plume of weed smoke? I hope you get the Cheetos cleaned off of your fingers long enough to type a response. If it is anything near the caliber of your previous work I'm sure we're all in for a real for a real treat...And why did you set your sights so low on the new minimum wage? The Burger King fry guy isn't worth a penny less to me than a Neurosurgeon....you really need to get your priorities in line, I'm sure they were deeply saddened by a measly 20 bucks an hour...

[-] 1 points by NancyPelosiIsHot (2) 3 years ago

Sorry I forgot one my apologies... 16) Medical prostitution. If we can get the rest of this done than this one will be a piece of cake. It's not like any members of Congress to disagree with this one...Does anyone happen to have Bill Clinton or Al Gore's email addresses? I think they would be great advocates for this movement...How could Al possibly disagree with hookers curing glaucoma rather than the ganja, think about how much ozone we will save? I think we've stumbled on to something great here folks...

[-] 1 points by AdogmaticHumanist (1) 3 years ago

Demand Number 1 should be... Public Funding Only of Campaigns!!!

[-] 1 points by youmakenosense (1) 3 years ago

If you eliminate all debt, then what about the people who had lent the money? What are they gonna do? If this were to pass, would you please lend me some money right before all debt is wiped out? Who's gonna pay for the living wage income so you don't have to work?

[-] 1 points by LloydJHart (190) from Vineyard Haven, MA 3 years ago

I want to take a moment and thank everyone for adding their comments to this thread and making it a viable online debate forum and exchange for ideas related to these proposed demands. I also want to thank Rush Limbaugh, Fox news and hundreds of conservative web sites and blogs for rallying opposition to these proposed demands giving those of that us that support these proposed demands a vigorous debate to sharpen our teeth on.

Since Rush Limbaugh, Fox news and the hundreds of conservative web sites and blogs began their onslaught of this page I have received hundreds of phone calls, most filled with hate and dismissal but some I am glad to say from polite and respectful conservatives that simply wanted to go more deeply into the thinking behind these demands. One very respectful conversation I had was with economics students over a speaker phone at George Mason university that went on for nearly three hours. There have been dozens of phone calls with folks that showed their respect but respectfully disagreed and there have been phone calls where there has been some agreement on one or several of the demands. The most agreement from seemingly conservative callers I was able to glean was on raising tariffs on all goods imported into the US to create jobs in America.

Even though it got hard for my wife and I to listen to all the hate and vitriol in most of the calls it was worth it to talk with those seemly conservative individuals that treated us with respect and allowed me to explain why I whole heartedly support these demands.

We get very emotional about money especially when we don't have it because money has become the central source of our main instinctual drives for food, shelter and sex. Until we grasp what it is that has us upset we will continue to over react and miss opportunities to come to agreement to stabilize the supply of our basic human needs as a species living in an environment that has limited resources.

Regardless of your political leaning I want to thank you all for participating in this thread and the debate that has ensued.

We all want the same things, food, shelter and sex. So lets try to find some common ground to stabilize the supply of our basic human needs without completely destroying the thin mist of life on this planet.

All heart felt love to you all.

Lloyd J Hart

[-] 1 points by KnowledgeIsPower (1) 3 years ago

This is completely ridiculous! Who will pay for the "living wage" to all, even to those who are not working??? The people who decide that the living wage is not enough so they work to earn more but will have to pay more taxes to support those who don't feel like working?? Insanity!

Free college education? For real? How will you get teachers to teach for free? Oh wait, someone has to pay them right...let's see...the working people who pay taxes???? hmmmm. Unbelievable!

Debt forgiveness to all? Are you serious? If all debt is wiped clean then obtaining credit will be eliminated since it will be WORTHLESS...so people will only be able to pay for what they can afford immediately. I.E. nobody will be able to afford homes, cars, etc. Ridiculous!

Open Borders??? Really? I'm laughing so hard right now!!! This one is so unrealistic that I won't even waste my breath. Hahahahahaha!

Wow. The last line is proof of your ignorance. You should be embarrassed.

[-] 1 points by boardnkayak (1) 3 years ago

While I agree with the protest, most of these demands have nothing to do with the concept of the movement and you will not gain momentum through these demands but rather alienate the movement.

I have a very good idea of what demands should be to match the core belief of the movement, which is to return the country to a democracy rule and not a corporation rule.

Lloyd, we should talk

[-] 1 points by HaveABrain (1) from Morristown, NJ 3 years ago

That's just retarded.

[-] 1 points by AnaMoseley (1) 3 years ago

In Portland, OR. We are struggling with a focus (as you seem to be as well). We all have reasons to march, and occupy. There is a loooooong list of reasons. But it is important for the movement to at least have a short list of "demands" which may differ in length from what it is our party stands for.

[-] 1 points by Mezocosm (4) 3 years ago

ONE DEMAND ONLY! And this one will happen.

We want : William K Black

[-] 1 points by tdrinkwa (1) 3 years ago

8) Meh, can't complain about that, though this problem isn't to such a degree that it is still harming the US. It's too ambiguous for my tastes, maybe be more specific.

9) ... Nice theory, but that's a door that once you open you can't close nor control what flows in and out of your countries. This will only make things such as illegal trading in things such as human trafficking and drugs simpler and would cause far more problems than it would bring benefit to people.

10) ??? Okay umm.... I don't know how intricately that part of the system works but this just seems to be thrown in there for kicks and giggles. I'd say our election process is fairly solid for a country of 300 million people, mistakes happen, nothing is perfect.

11) ROFLLLLL, OMG are you serious? In what world with this happen? The worlds entire economy would crumble into anarchy if you people were given rule of it. DO you people understand how this world works? Clearly not based on this demand. Striking debt clear would cause multiple economies in many of the worlds countries to utterly collapse. I don't get what this opinion of debt seems to be that it's terrible for everything, right now, yes I do agree that it is out of hand in America in the current economic state as the country is not growing at a quick enough rate to justify it. But when a country's growth surpasses the amount it is repaying in interest, it is gaining positively, and therefore the debt is more than justified, as it has been for many years.

12) ??? So what... you want all the people who can't afford what theyre trying to buy to have a free pass now? Credit reporting agencies keep reckless spending and credit in check by REGULATING who is can feasibly maintain the credit they use. Again, I'm starting to think whoever created these demands must be living in fantasy land.

13) Theoretically, a good idea, but beyond the scope of many unions. Why do you think direct democracy's don't exist? It's for the reason that it is unfeasible for everyone to have a direct say in how things run, which is why Representative act upon their behalf. And also theoretically, you have a union for this reason, to represent you and often times they do this amicably.

I dont know who wrote this, but they clearly are not a bright mind and I would be disgusted if I knew that they were a part of the "leadership" for this occupywhatever stuff.

This is a war that should be fought by intellectuals, people with the capacity to understand how the world functions and how to best fit the roles of the ordinary citizen in them with the current system. It's people like this that make me detest this occupation and why I vehemently refuse to acknowledge these protests as serious.

Thanks for reading haha, I doubt any of you did.

TLDR: This person is either educationally challenged, or living in fantasy land because none of these demands make any sense.

[-] 1 points by Juaqin11 (1) 3 years ago

yep, That sound's supper cool!!!!

[-] 1 points by oze47 (2) 3 years ago

A demand would be to compel companies to reduce the interest of the arrears in credit cards. But better still would be forgive debt that 77% of the persons have on cards. It would release around 886 billions dollars of financial burden on the family. If you forgive the debt of the professionals who financed their education with credit, it would free other 20 billions.

[-] 1 points by oze47 (2) 3 years ago

The first demand discredits the movement. It is a demand discrinatoria, confined to the United States. The economical solution for solving social demands would be to impose a tax on financial transactions and financial institution to the export of capital on the part of the multinational conglomerates. Babylon 9

[-] 1 points by OsirisDarkstone (5) from Tucson, AZ 3 years ago

Demand four: I agree that education should be available to anyone who wants to pursue it, but how does one pay for free college education for everyone? Who will pay the teachers? Buy the library books? Build the dormitories? If every college will be 100% federal government-funded, then the federal government will controlling all of the colleges/universities in the country. I certainly would never agree to that scenario. If they want to help college students, remove the ridiculous profits in the private student loan industry.

Demand five: This is pie-in-the-sky stuff unless the government is willing to release all of its black-ops technology where it is alleged that free energy like Mr. Fusion does exist. Assuming that free energy does not exist yet, then there is no way to transition out of fossil fuels without decimating the economy. Further, the so-called "green energy" push by the government is a scam as evidenced by the recent political scandal in the solar energy industry. Our current state of technology is not a viable substitute for fossil fuel energy. It may make someone feel good to drive a Prius, but what happens when the world runs out of the rare earth metals needed to construct the battery technology?

Demand six: Where do we get $1,000,000,000,000 from when the country is broke? Should we just print it up on the Federal Reserve printers? Borrow it from China?

Demand seven: As in the previous Demand, where do we get $1,000,000,000,000? I agree on the decommissioning of the nuclear plants, because radiation is a curse on this planet. However, this Demand conflicts with Demand Five, because nuclear is considered alternative energy. Nuclear accounts for 20% of the power in the country. What will be the substitute for nuclear while these power plants are being decommissioned? Further, if you reestablish all wetlands, that means destroying all dams and canals. 6% of US power comes from hydroelectric, so that along with nuclear would wipe 26% of the US electrical power capacity. If you take this Demand into account with Demand Five, we would essentially have to live in the Dark Ages with no fossil fuels, nuclear power, hydroelectric or coal.

[-] 1 points by sharpie (1) 3 years ago

Living wage yes! Health care yes! Government subsidized college for everyone, yes, equal rights amendments, yes. Infastructure, yes. Unions, yes.

Living wage regardless of employment. Do you mean type of employment or employment at all? If it means living wage w/o work....so no rewards at all? might want to reconsider that in conjunction with human nature. (tendency to need rewards, like all animals.) Also, all credit forgiveness would be precarious in the same way. We need equality but we also need rewards for responsibility. Free immigration for all might be tough and require a lot of planning.

I suggest collaboration with academics and some sharp lawyer friends / legal strategists to create a plan that might get a second look from our lawmakers.

Best to you, and I support the movement, 85% of the demands here.

[-] 1 points by tomrush (1) 3 years ago

The demands listed here are full of lunacy. Who ever drew them up has no basic knowledge of economics, government, or life period. They sound like they want a Utopian society where everything is just catered to them with out recourse of consequences. They sound insane, perhaps they are.

[-] 1 points by sammiej00 (1) from Salt Lake City, UT 3 years ago

Look at everyone attacking each other over their varied opinions about these demands. STOP going after each other, guys. You know what the 1% want? For us to start disagreeing and dismantle from the inside out.

[-] 1 points by jeffruyblah (1) 3 years ago

end the fed, impeach obama for assassinating, wipe ass with patriot act!! these are clear points you must incorporate

[-] 1 points by sunychemdoc (2) 3 years ago

Only one thing is needed - a step toward democracy.

It’s Time.

Two hundred thirty-five years ago, monarchs ruled the nations of the world, and the thought of people choosing their leaders was revolutionary. We took that step. We formed a republic and began the great experiment.

Two centuries later, our republic still offers freedoms that motivate people from around the world to come here and make their lives anew. Nevertheless, our system of government is showing signs of age. “Untouchable“ issues like legislators’ salaries and benefits suggest that our elected officials are acting more like an oligarchy of cronies rather than a community of servants. More seriously, the threat of holding government financing hostage to ideological grandstanding suggests that the present system is susceptible to the will of the few, rather than the will of the majority.

I am suggesting a step toward democracy. Specifically, I am proposing that the people assume the power to enact legislation directly by means of a two-thirds majority vote. This proposal is similar to our existing right to amend the Constitution, but I propose that it be applied more widely and more frequently. The two-thirds stipulation is meant to decrease the adoption of frivolous legislation. As a balance to this right, I would propose that the Supreme Court could overrule such legislation by a vote of two-thirds of the justices.

I believe such power would rejuvenate our political process in several ways. First, the people would have the direct power to guide our nation, addressing untouchable or politically sensitive issues. Secondly, the threat of popular control should help focus our elected officials on problem-solving rather than ideological showmanship – if they can’t solve the problem, the people will. Finally, this direct power should motivate citizens to take a more active interest in political questions – they may have to play the role of final arbiter.

We are no longer in the horse-and-buggy era. We have the technology to present, discuss, and decide issues by national ballot in a matter of a few weeks. The people certainly do not have to decide every little matter that currently comes before our legislators, but we must hold the right to choose our fate when our representatives fail to decide.

Are there risks associated with granting power directly to the people? There most certainly are. There were risks associated with the birth or our republic, but we took those risks and inaugurated a system that has been the envy of people around the world. However, when the system becomes too sclerotic and too self-absorbed to address vital issues by itself, it should be fixed. This is my fix.

It’s time to move forward to democracy.

[-] 1 points by Meburningyou (3) 3 years ago

I support most of these....especially the debt related ones, the fuel crisis related ones, and the ones about voting and counting ballots

[-] 1 points by liberalismisamentaldisorder (1) 3 years ago

This is a complete joke. At least make your demands reasonable instead of laughable to everyone but your inner group of socialists. Have fun doing your protests. You aren't going to see any change, and the uneducated jobless people out in the streets will eventually go home. I agree that something needs to happen, but come on, really?

[-] 1 points by Jesse1234 (1) from New York, NY 3 years ago

Too idealistic guaranteed living wage regardless of employment? Not a good idea. Void ALL debt & set min wage as $20/hr, you're asking for life to be EASY We are supposed to be RESPONSIBLE, HARD WORKING individuals earning our livings/lifestyle. We are not asking for a WELFARE COUNTRY. We are asking for economic justice, so that the responsible and hard working folk don't end up being sold out, and check to check, or with foreclosed homes because they've missed one payment & etc.

[-] 1 points by denyoccupy (1) 3 years ago

Demand One: America Would STARVE, We have no Production Industry infrastructure in place. Taxing Imports would be harmful to the global economy.

Demand Two: We have a universal healthcare system Called MEDICAID and MEDICARE check your pay stubs.

Demand Three: It's Called unemployment and welfare, we have it.

Demand Four: People including myself can barely graduate college, now it should be free.

Demand Five: Would again starve the country. Our food is engineered around fossil fuels and until someone creates an efficient cost effective way to use alternative fuels, we are fucked.

Demand Six: I have been up for WEEKS at night listening to the repaving of route 7. 1 Trillion Dollars in stimulus was already spent and approved in the first package.

Demand Seven: We have state owned land and a HUGE federal wetlands program. Very complex storm water management laws in place. I've worked on a bunch. Nuclear power is a safe and effective way of creating energy when done properly.

Demand Eight: Of course racism is the governments fault and has nothing to do with the human mind.

Demand Nine: I do not want people from Quebec taking American Jobs. Sorry.

Demand Ten: Let's get people voting in large numbers before we scrutinize how things are counted. The last election I voted in was on PAPER.

Demand Eleven: Is the most ridiculous and ignorant statement I have ever heard. There would be a civil war due to inflation.

Demand Twelve: Let's just borrow all of the money then never pay it back. Sure.

Demand Thirteen: Unions in general are insignificant and aged. If you don't want to be part of a union, find a job that doesn't require you to have one.

[-] 1 points by WakeUp (-1) 3 years ago

Did big corporations really cause the crisis? Yes they aren't innocent and they created the vehicle for it to be carried out but what about personal responsibility? The CDO and CDS products that cratered balance sheets were based on thousands and thousands of individual home loans that could never be paid off. Why is this never brought up? If you make 40k a year and your banker says he will give you financing for a 1 million dollar home, its his fault if you accept and default? Its the IRRESPONSIBILITY of the 99% (obviously not, but you get the point) that brought us here. Manage your own finances throughout your life in a way that allows you to PAY WHAT YOU OWE.

The heart of the problem america will have to battle is that the citizens of this country now believe "healthcare" and "owning a home" should be fundamentally provided to all people instead of being earned. Make no mistake, if we think just because we are a wealthy nation that we can provide for everyone we will quickly become greece, italy, spain, etc. and that is no exaggeration.

Full disclosure - I'm currently a college student with student loans but that does not warp me into believing that wall street is the heart of all evil.

[-] 1 points by AudreyM (1) 3 years ago

The core of the protest for me is: "Our" dreams have been killed: our collective dream of what America should be and how we wanted to live our lives. Wall Street and our government have had a big hand in screwing things up.

[-] 1 points by ReverendKev (3) 3 years ago

What I demand is:

1) LESS entitlement for ANYBODY -- rich or poor

2) responsible regulation -- not regulation that helps one group or industry over another (this includes but is not limited to: reducing/eliminating artificial barriers to entry in markets, reducing/eliminating tariffs and subsidies that economically don't work and have never worked)

3) THE ELIMINATION OF CORPORATE PERSONHOOD

4) personal accountability specifically of CEO's, politicians and those on welfare and anyone else that is benefiting from money they HAVE NOT earned

5) NO WARS against anyone at home or abroad that does not directly threaten our liberties

I WANT A FREE NATION THAT ENCOURAGES FREE TRADE, PEACE, LIBERTY FOR ALL AND ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY.

[-] 1 points by bobgib (1) 3 years ago

Lloyd:

Disturbing lack of focus. The movement has to have simple objectives which concentrate on the real problem.

The root of the problem is Congress. It starts with the need to finance electoral campaigns. It costs about $3 million for a seat in the House of Representatives and about $6 million for a seat in the Senate. The next presidential campaign will cost $2 billion. The majority of this money, is not provided by the average voter. Rather it is provided by organizations, businesses, and well-heeled individuals. All of whom are interested in a return on their investment. This puts Congress under an obligation before a vote is cast. Incumbent Congressman spend 25% of the time in office raising funds for the next election. We also have the spectacle of a president regularly going cap in hand to rich donors.

The American electorate has oscillated between Democrats and Republicans with no effect on the degree of income transfer which Congress facilitates. So, the first thing to be done is to take the money out of the election process.

Secondly, a good case can be made for term limits on Congress similar to those for the president. No one should serve more than two terms. Serving in Congress should be a privilege not a profession. Term limits would break up the old boys club and ensure continuous supply of new ideas.

The third problem is lobbying. It is undemocratic for large organizations to pay others to present their views to Congress. Lobbying should be outlawed. There are 30,000 people employed in lobbying in Washington alone. Congress should only take note of views expressed by the individual voter.

Finally Congress should not be able to vote themselves privileges which are not in line with the privileges afforded to the individual voter. Matters like congressional pay scales and other benefits should only be changed on the basis of a referendum.

Until these changes are made there can be no real democracy in the United States. However it will not be an easy matter to convince Congress to get off the gravy train.

[-] 1 points by BouncyBallz (5) 3 years ago

Hope yer kind starves to death

[-] 1 points by BouncyBallz (5) 3 years ago

Fuck u asshole for erasing my post. U have no sense or intellectual honesty. Fuck yer mom n pop

[-] 1 points by Quintus (1) 3 years ago

Interest on credi cards should be prime +2. If prime+20 were charged then the 18% paid should be applied to principal.

[-] 1 points by ed00 (1) 3 years ago

i would like to see the bankers(and others) who caused this economic mess treated like drug dealers, take there assets, force them to wear ankle bracelets, seize there bank accounts, prosecute them and place them into the general population in prison. im not against banks, they have a useful function, but this latest civil abortion is inexcusable, an example should be set. this would be a start. peace

[-] 1 points by diogenes (8) 3 years ago

Look people, what do racial and gender equal rights have to do with Wall St? And debt forgiveness for everyone? That's called THEFT from those who saved and then made those savings available for folks like you to borrow (even if you lacked the means to pay those loans back).

This isn't about occupying Wall St. it's about destroying the very fabric of American Entrepreneurial business and transferring wealth from those who do, to those who do nothing..

Granted, Wall St. is tremendously cupable in it's abuse of the US political system, but if you're demand were granted, you'd be little different in how you're trying to enrich yourselves (by defaulting, while retaining the asset you borrowed to buy), and expecting taxpayers to take care of you.

Here's a better list of demand that actually make sense.

Outlaw Credit Default Swaps, which are nothing more than a means for financial speculators to destroy the underlying value of any collateral posted against a loan. Restore the traditional Financial surety system that was devastated by the financial crisis of 2008. CDS act in a manner that would be like every person in your neighborhood taking out fire insurance on YOUR home, and then conspiring to burn it down in order to collect the insurance. This is exactly how they act in the global financial markets. Who wants to own assets, or borrow money to purchase them, when they can be destroyed by CDS speculators?

Halt all efforts to implement "Cap and Trade" energy policies as they are nothing more than an effort by politicians and Wall St. to control the lives of Americans, and profit from "rent-seeking" from pollution sources. Both Cap and Trade (carbon credits) and Credit Default Swaps are the creation of Blythe Masters, formerly of JP Morgan. (look her up if you don't believe me)

Halt all subsidies for any alternative energy technology that FAILS to provide baseload power necessary to spur economic growth, and therefore jobs. Businesses will avoid establishing operations in areas where they cannot count upon reliable power 24x7.

Rather than limiting so called "greenhouse gases", recognize that the rest of the developing world will resist any efforts to stifle their economic growth. Instead, explore geo-engineering technologies that hold the promise of mitigating the effects of any global warming, and are completely reversible (iron fertilization of the oceans, creation of a "stratoshield").

Subsidize (by merit) the education of individuals fulfilling degrees that meet pressing social needs (medical, engineering, technology.. etc). Interest free loans, and debt forgiveness for those who dedicate their skills and time to meet social needs. Education is an investment in human potential.

Require all physically capable recipients of government assistance to be required to perform socially related work in exchange for the money they receive from other taxpayers. Workfare works.

Provide tax credits to businesses for hiring, retaining, and retraining workers.

Immigration reform that requires us to enforce existing immigration laws. Establish temporary worker visas for those existing illegal aliens so we can establish their identities, and their desirability for residence in the US. Require reciprocity in our immigration and visa requirements. (eg: If a Saudi comes to the US, they must surrender their passport and be escorted wherever they visit in the US) By these means, we will motivate democratic reform in their countries of origin.

Infrastructure spending is a much needed activity, and can assist in preserving job skills for the chronically unemployed. However, placing a price on it is ridiculous.. Triage where we need immediate action, and prioritize according to projected return on investment for any new projects. No return, no money.. Critical needs only, not "nice to have" projects. These can be undertaken through donated funding from the private sector.

Finally, creation of an efficient hybrid health care system that fosters efficiency and cost savings through preventative care and competition.

Establishment of a new tax system that promotes savings, investment, and entrepreneurial business activity. They are many proposals that can be looked at, but it must focus on eliminating an accounting industry that thrives on tax law complexity. It must be simplifed and made fair for all.

I think that's enough for now.. but by no means all inclusive.

[-] 1 points by PeacePro (1) 3 years ago

Why is this on the Occupy Wall Street Web page it is not legitimate, it does not even correspond to the Declaration of the Occupation of Wall Street page. This does not represent the movement it is subversive and incorrect. This misinforms people and confuses the movement. REMOVE IMMEDIATELY.

[-] 1 points by squidd (2) from Liberty, KY 3 years ago

Occupy wall street needs to have a simple message that people can grasp and get behind. The tea party had success when they focused on "taxed enough already" and had failure when they let other things like racism and hatred of gays get wrapped up in it. The focus of occupy wall street should be: raise taxes on the rich, and end the war. "Tax the rich, end the war" is easy to understand, and would solve the financial problems of the country as well as provide money to provide social services. Tax the rich, end the war - don't get distracted with other unpopular moral statements, that will only weaken the movement.

[-] 1 points by ChrysiCupofTea (2) 3 years ago

Just an idea, Nowhere in the constitution does it state we must pay taxes on our income. Yet they are requiring us to. Few are fighting this individually. We should fight this too.

[-] 1 points by ChrysiCupofTea (2) 3 years ago

Just an idea, Nowhere in the constitution does it state we must pay taxes on our income. Yet they are requiring us to. Few are fighting this individually. We should fight this too.

[-] 1 points by henry5400 (25) 3 years ago

If we don't clean up government and get rid of lobbyist influence, big money campaign contributions and no-bid contracts, how can't we trust government to spend huge amounts on infrastructure? It would simply disappear amid cheating corporations doing shoddy work, and contracts to overseas companies (i.e. China) rather than toward employment of those in our country. Look at what happened with the Federal stimulus money in Texas -- their governor and legislature simply applied it to their own state's deficit rather than use it to create any jobs. I think Job 1 has to be to take back our federal and state governments from the corrupt rich and powerful who currently control them (and for me, this includes the Supreme Court).

[-] 1 points by FreeJack (15) from Alexandria, VA 3 years ago

Goals:

  1. Influence share holders to divest in corporations that pay CEOs and senior executives more than 100 times their lowest paid worker.

  2. Influence all Americans to close accounts at major banks and join credit unions.

  3. Pass Fair Trade laws to replace Free Trade laws.

  4. Force Congress to pass term limit legislation, three terms for the House and two terms for the Senate, no more career politicians.

  5. Force Congress to make corporate campaign contributions illegal, only citizens can contribute up to $100 per candidate.

  6. Pass the Employee Free Choice Act.

[-] 1 points by FreeJack (15) from Alexandria, VA 3 years ago

Goals:

  1. Influence share holders to divest in corporations that pay CEOs and senior executives more than 100 times their lowest paid worker.

  2. Influence all Americans to close accounts at major banks and join credit unions.

  3. Pass Fair Trade laws to replace Free Trade laws.

  4. Force Congress to pass term limit legislation, three terms for the House and two terms for the Senate, no more career politicians.

  5. Force Congress to make corporate campaign contributions illegal, only citizens can contribute up to $100 per candidate.

  6. Pass the Employee Free Choice Act.

[-] 1 points by boredperson (225) 3 years ago

This is the most backward economics I've ever seen...I really hope you guys are put down. It's disgusting. And your hatred is misplaced towards the banks when it should be going towards the government. If all of these demands are enacted, goodbye America, goodbye Freedom.

[-] 1 points by burleson1970 (72) 3 years ago

Someone stated that "this isn't a debate." Well here's another forum for a debate on this issue:

http://nationalfederalist.hoop.la/displayForumTopic/content/244060506144244310

[-] 1 points by owstag (508) 3 years ago

What doped up trustafarian came up with this idiocy? With cranks like this around this movement is damned to be giggled to death I'm afraid.

A leftist anti-American hippie movement will go nowhere fast. You have to appeal to the massive middle; normal, usually apolitical Americans (soccer moms, middle aged middle class suburban dads, etc.) and stay focused on the real, genuine shared concern: out of control debt owed by ordinary Americans to financial institutions that were themselves bailed out by the government.

There are a lot of cranky, pseudo-leftist college kids in this 'movement' and it's turning off a lot of potential supporters.

Open borders? WTF? Kid, kids, kids...

[-] 1 points by MakeThisWork (33) from New York, NY 3 years ago

Okay, I love you. I have walked with you and I have friends sleeping with you. But these demands are discombobulated, not fully elaborated and are all over the map. I am used to this, as whenever we would protest in SF for environmental reforms (Hetch Hetchy, et. al) all the other left-leaning groups would come out of the woodwork and try to co-opt the message. Code Pink, Free Mumia, would all start shouting over the people who set up the protest in the first place, we would be dismissed as a bunch of unorganized hippies (sound familiar?) and nothing would get done. I agree with many of the environmental, health and other ideas, but they don't really belong here. They talk to the symptoms of the problem, not the problem itself.

Focus the message. These are a much better list of demands: http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/ as they are well thought-out, fully elaborated and keep the message focused to the issues that I believe most of your mainstream supporters are supporting you. Get those accomplished, and getting the rest of the list (health care reform, environmental protections) will come much easier.

Stand proud, shout loud!

[-] 1 points by TP2 (4) 3 years ago

I want to offer the following idea as a possible theme and focus for pulling together the many good ideas that have been mentioned --

To pick up the fight where President Roosevelt and the progressives of an earlier era left off by champion Roosevelt's "Economic Bill of Rights".

God Bless, and keep democracy alive.!

-- TP2

from http://www.fdrheritage.org/bill_of_rights.htm

Franklin Roosevelt's “Economic Bill of Rights” Excerpt from President Roosevelt's January 11, 1944 message to the Congress of the United States on the State of the Union

It is our duty now to begin to lay the plans and determine the strategy for the winning of a lasting peace and the establishment of an American standard of living higher than ever before known. We cannot be content, no matter how high that general standard of living may be, if some fraction of our people—whether it be one-third or one-fifth or one-tenth—is ill-fed, ill-clothed, ill-housed, and insecure.

This Republic had its beginning, and grew to its present strength, under the protection of certain inalienable political rights—among them the right of free speech, free press, free worship, trial by jury, freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures. They were our rights to life and liberty.

As our nation has grown in size and stature, however—as our industrial economy expanded—these political rights proved inadequate to assure us equality in the pursuit of happiness.

We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. “Necessitous men are not free men.” People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.

In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a Second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

  • The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

  • The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

  • The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

  • The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

  • The right of every family to a decent home;

  • The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

  • The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

  • The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

America’s own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for our citizens.

[-] 1 points by TP2 (4) 3 years ago

I want to offer the following idea as a possible theme and focus for pulling together the many good ideas that have been mentioned --

To pick up the fight where President Roosevelt and the progressives of an earlier era left off by champion Roosevelt's "Economic Bill of Rights".

God Bless, and keep democracy alive.!

-- TP2

from http://www.fdrheritage.org/bill_of_rights.htm

Franklin Roosevelt's “Economic Bill of Rights” Excerpt from President Roosevelt's January 11, 1944 message to the Congress of the United States on the State of the Union

It is our duty now to begin to lay the plans and determine the strategy for the winning of a lasting peace and the establishment of an American standard of living higher than ever before known. We cannot be content, no matter how high that general standard of living may be, if some fraction of our people—whether it be one-third or one-fifth or one-tenth—is ill-fed, ill-clothed, ill-housed, and insecure.

This Republic had its beginning, and grew to its present strength, under the protection of certain inalienable political rights—among them the right of free speech, free press, free worship, trial by jury, freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures. They were our rights to life and liberty.

As our nation has grown in size and stature, however—as our industrial economy expanded—these political rights proved inadequate to assure us equality in the pursuit of happiness.

We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. “Necessitous men are not free men.” People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.

In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a Second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

  • The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

  • The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

  • The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

  • The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

  • The right of every family to a decent home;

  • The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

  • The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

  • The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

America’s own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for our citizens.

[-] 1 points by TP2 (4) 3 years ago

I want to offer the following idea as a possible theme and focus for pulling together the many good ideas that have been mentioned --

To pick up the fight where President Roosevelt and the progressives of an earlier era left off by champion Roosevelt's "Economic Bill of Rights".

God Bless, and keep democracy alive.!

-- TP2

from http://www.fdrheritage.org/bill_of_rights.htm

Franklin Roosevelt's “Economic Bill of Rights” Excerpt from President Roosevelt's January 11, 1944 message to the Congress of the United States on the State of the Union

It is our duty now to begin to lay the plans and determine the strategy for the winning of a lasting peace and the establishment of an American standard of living higher than ever before known. We cannot be content, no matter how high that general standard of living may be, if some fraction of our people—whether it be one-third or one-fifth or one-tenth—is ill-fed, ill-clothed, ill-housed, and insecure.

This Republic had its beginning, and grew to its present strength, under the protection of certain inalienable political rights—among them the right of free speech, free press, free worship, trial by jury, freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures. They were our rights to life and liberty.

As our nation has grown in size and stature, however—as our industrial economy expanded—these political rights proved inadequate to assure us equality in the pursuit of happiness.

We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. “Necessitous men are not free men.” People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.

In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a Second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

  • The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

  • The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

  • The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

  • The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

  • The right of every family to a decent home;

  • The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

  • The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

  • The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

America’s own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for our citizens.

[-] 1 points by TP2 (4) 3 years ago

I want to offer the following idea as a possible theme and focus for pulling together the many good ideas that have been mentioned --

To pick up the fight where President Roosevelt and the progressives of an earlier era left off by champion Roosevelt's "Economic Bill of Rights".

God Bless, and keep democracy alive.!

-- TP2

from http://www.fdrheritage.org/bill_of_rights.htm

Franklin Roosevelt's “Economic Bill of Rights” Excerpt from President Roosevelt's January 11, 1944 message to the Congress of the United States on the State of the Union

It is our duty now to begin to lay the plans and determine the strategy for the winning of a lasting peace and the establishment of an American standard of living higher than ever before known. We cannot be content, no matter how high that general standard of living may be, if some fraction of our people—whether it be one-third or one-fifth or one-tenth—is ill-fed, ill-clothed, ill-housed, and insecure.

This Republic had its beginning, and grew to its present strength, under the protection of certain inalienable political rights—among them the right of free speech, free press, free worship, trial by jury, freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures. They were our rights to life and liberty.

As our nation has grown in size and stature, however—as our industrial economy expanded—these political rights proved inadequate to assure us equality in the pursuit of happiness.

We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. “Necessitous men are not free men.” People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.

In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a Second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

  • The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

  • The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

  • The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

  • The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

  • The right of every family to a decent home;

  • The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

  • The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

  • The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

America’s own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for our citizens.

[-] 1 points by ferretburger (11) 3 years ago

This list is a good starting point, but it needs to be refined. We have a corrupted system, and the way to fix it is to eliminate the corruption not to eliminate the system. You'll never find broad support for complete revolution because although everybody wants their lives to be better nobody wants to give up the good things they already have.

Example: Free education - not practical as it devalues the entire system, but a need-based progressive tuition scale could be implemented easily (already many top private universities quietly use such a system). In other words, education should be equally accessible to everyone regardless of financial status.

Example: Outlaw all credit agencies. This could lead to an arbitrary private system where race or ethnicity might be part of the decision to get a loan. In fact a centralized objective credit rating service is a good thing, but it must belong to the people, not to the banks. Make it a public agency or at least mandate 100% freedom of information to citizens. I shouldn't have to pay money to get my own credit updates online or even to challenge my score every single week if I want.

Example:$20 minimum wage. This places unnecessary constraints on employers and will kill jobs, but it is insane that our system rewards CEOs for laying off hundreds of US workers and shipping their jobs overseas. How about a MAXIMUM WAGE. Fix total CEO compensation (salary + bonus) at no greater than 50 times the lowest paid employee's total compensation (salary + benefits). The idea is not to cap wages for executives, but to make sure that pay cuts percolate all the way up to the top.

Example: Single payer health care. While this would probably be a good idea, Obama demonstrated that it is not politically realistic. However there is something wrong when the shareholders' bottom line matters more to a health insurance company than delivering quality health care. Mandate instead that 100% of profits generated in the health insurance industry must come from return on investment of premiums. In other words if any money from premiums (but not interest generated)is left over at the end of the year it must be paid back to all customers as a membership bonus and NOT to shareholders, who literally have no skin in the game.

Example: Universal debt forgiveness. This is simply insane. I worked years to pay off my mortgage because a home is an object of value worth investing in. You can't give them away for free because nobody will pay to build them and nobody will put their own home on the market. However, let's examine the true problem here -- debt that is out of proportion to what was obtained for that debt (homes under water, college degrees that can't even get you a temp job, etc.). That is the problem. One solution might be to make sure that the lender assumes as much risk as the borrower. Perhaps a law that says that for every dollar of debt that turns out to be greater than the value of the object that it was used to obtain the borrower only owes 50 cents on the dollar. In other words, the bank and the borrower share the pain of the bank having made a loan that was bigger than it should have been. In the current system only the borrower suffers for the bank's failure to do due diligence.

Some of these points are good as is (infrastructure investment) and others will never be salvageable (open borders + elimination of free trade together). But we can definitely make a good workable list ...

...and without specific demands there is no point in occupying anything.

[-] 1 points by burleson1970 (72) 3 years ago

A CRITIQUE OF EACH OF THESE DEMANDS HAS BEEN POSTED ONLINE: http://www.nationalfederalism.com Folks are encouraged also to utilize that site's forum to discuss these issues.

[-] 1 points by tomkuehn (5) 3 years ago

This list is a very personal wish list that is really incoherent, unrealistic, and un-achievable. OccupyWallStreet.org should set up a Wiki to build a develop a Protest Platform or Statement of Principles that serves a critique of the political and economics problems that need to be solved and suggested solutions (rather than list of demands). The Wiki is a consensus building tool through debate and argument to hopefully arrive at something that can be widely supported by the "movement."

[-] 1 points by NeonJesus (1) from Norton Shores, MI 3 years ago

The problem is that everyone here is protesting for different reasons, Come on people Find common grounds and stick to it if you want to get more attention. It's like if i said i was running for president so i could change tax rates, stop wars, help out small businesses, end poverty, yeah it all sounds good but with so many platforms nobody would vote for me, Find common ground and AGREE, and don't let the corporate fat cats win.

[-] 1 points by NeverNotHere (1) 3 years ago

Both business, government and even our monitory systems are in the habit of accounting for income and expenses at different times than they are actually received or expended. In the context of trust and public responsibility this practice could be useful and give flexibility in times of stress. But apparently leveraging and postponing can get way out of hand, and trust and responsibility can get so eroded that the whole economic/government structure becomes extremely unstable. Now it seems that this mistrust and malfeasance could conceivably plunge the whole world into a liquidity crisis and mega depression.

If we stay away from blaming and extreme positioning, and take a calm look at the trends, I believe that almost everyone has to admit that much of our believed in economic theory does not work for its intended purpose. Isn't the sharing of that realization the only way we are going to gather the 99%? Let's face it, even if we get 22% or 11% we will have a huge voice, and all these injustices that I think are surely evidence of broken institutions and flawed theories will be forced onto the platform in 2012.

How can we invent new ad hoc theories that even our best universities haven't been able to come up with? We need a national open dialogue. And sure, certain issues can be tackled too, but that can't be the first priority. No matter what is done on individual issues, it won't be a quick fix. Then there will be a backlash, and all of our progress will be undone. That must be inevitable if all we are about is "against something".

I believe that every radical issue that we adopt now, no matter what the level of obvious injustice, will only serve to disperse the 99% and deflate this beautiful initiative before meaningful dialogues are the norm. People have to have issues and slogans to motivate participation. Let's talk of participation because of the momentus opportunity this can be to restructure our society.

Who in the world can restructure and de-stratify society better than us, the people of New York and the vibrant and educated population of America? We right here can create the brotherhood that the whole world has only dreamed of. We have been educated for our whole lives in these principles, even if they weren't equitably applied as we grew up, we know what we want.

If we believe that anger and outrage are the most potent tools we will wear ourselves out and alienate many millions that are home praying that we make some right moves and prove our love, concern and tolerance for all of our brothers and sisters. If we handle these early stages right and proceed with some equanimity our numbers will swell to get some very important jobs done. You who are out on the front line must know how important your contribution is. Let's handle ourselves such that we can impress our families and even our parents that this movement is honorable and that we will create the first truly just society that includes every citizen.

[-] 1 points by ryanx30 (1) from Union, NJ 3 years ago

We should go to back to our most fundamental principles that our forefather, the founder of this nation brought forth, which is, the government of the people, for the people, by the people should not perish from the earth

Demand one: Reform election system, limit amount of money that an individual or a corporation can contribute, let big money influence, lobbyists get out of our politics, make it a law, bring our country back to the people

[-] 1 points by debtslave53 (2) 3 years ago

Demands must be directed and realistic...

Distribution of Wealth is the single greatest problem..The enormous skew in wealth has placed all economic power in the hands of a very few leaving the majority with little more than debt...Our American based consumer economy can not sustain itself under these constaints...

The most practical way to redestribute the wealth is by altering the tax structure. We are in a desperate situation...calling for desperate measures..I purpose.. 1) A cap on personal wealth..For the greater good our system simply can not function if indivual citizens have net wealths in the billions..This takes too much of currency out of the commercial flow...and results in business failures, job losses, and debt. 2) A severe graduated income tax system set up to correct the current skew and restore the economy. All Income, without any deduction over certain levels eg. over $1mil/year need to be taxed in the ninety plus percentile and returned to the state. 3)The state can not reurn money to the consumers who need it, by giving it to the banks..The banks simply buy bonds at 4% interest. Interest we end up paying for..The government should take the money from thes e wealthy few and institue job programs adressing our faltering infra structure and build much needed safe nuclear power plants to end our dependence on foreign oil..Stop the debate on Nuclear...nothing on this planet is "risk free' certain not fossil fuel..Nuclear is cheaper and cleaner in the long run and if safety is a concern..build them underground... ":>) DS53

[-] 1 points by InvisibleHand (4) 3 years ago

A severely graduated income tax like the one you propose would eliminate any incentive for hard work and innovation. The reason why the United States is an established economic power is because its citizens have the opportunity to pursue unlimited success. If we eliminate the ability of citizens to keep a million dollars a year, then nobody will put in the requisite work to earn a million dollars a year. The economy will be much weaker as a result, and, according to the Laffer curve, federal tax revenues will actually decrease.

Along those same lines, a cap on wealth would eliminate the incentive for innovations by the future Bill Gates and Steve Jobs of the world. Furthermore, it would be a complete infringement on personal liberties. Again, the beauty of the American system is that it promotes growth and innovation. You are asking for the government to stymie growth and innovation.

While the lopsided distribution of wealth in this country might seem like a problem, it cannot be fixed simply by taking money away from the rich and giving it to the state. After all, most billionaires in this country do not simply hoard their wealth, as you indicate. To the contrary, they make massive contributions to GDP through high levels of consumption and investment. You cannot build up the weak by tearing down the strong. Punishing success will never be the answer to any problem that this country faces.

[-] 1 points by debtslave53 (2) 3 years ago

Demands must be directed and realistic...

Distribution of Wealth is the single greatest problem..The enormous skew in wealth has placed all economic power in the hands of a very few leaving the majority with little more than debt...Our American based consumer economy can not sustain itself under these constaints...

The most practical way to redestribute the wealth is by altering the tax structure. We are in a desperate situation...calling for desperate measures..I purpose.. 1) A cap on personal wealth..For the greater good our system simply can not function if indivual citizens have net wealths in the billions..This takes too much of currency out of the commercial flow...and results in business failures, job losses, and debt. 2) A severe graduated income tax system set up to correct the current skew and restore the economy. All Income, without any deduction over certain levels eg. over $1mil/year need to be taxed in the ninety plus percentile and returned to the state. 3)The state can not reurn money to the consumers who need it, by giving it to the banks..The banks simply buy bonds at 4% interest. Interest we end up paying for..The government should take the money from thes e wealthy few and institue job programs adressing our faltering infra structure and build much needed safe nuclear power plants to end our dependence on foreign oil..Stop the debate on Nuclear...nothing on this planet is "risk free' certain not fossil fuel..Nuclear is cheaper and cleaner in the long run and if safety is a concern..build them underground... ":>) DS53

[-] 1 points by awaken7 (1) 3 years ago

Excellent Demands! (but I Do think you need to tweak demand 9 a bit).

[-] 1 points by Zand (5) from Pflugerville, TX 3 years ago

While envionmentalist concerns and immigration issuess are admirable, they seem a bit off-topic. I would suggest omitting them as not every 99%er is an environmentalist or pro open borders.

[-] 1 points by PissedCPA (1) 3 years ago

Crap like this won't let us be taken seriously. Either we have adult supervision or this will flame out. I'm a former protester from the 60s. To you great young people--although over 30, please allow us to pass down our wisdom .

[-] 1 points by realtexascowboy (1) 3 years ago

Ok Lloyd I don't know your life story, but take it from a 52 year old fat white guy from Texas. A $20.00 a hour min. wage would ruin the economy. Frankly some 40 yrear old working at McDonalds should be paid about $5 a hour in my book, maybe then he will get off of his Duff and get a good job. Open Borders is a very bad ideal. I've watched a lot of middle class jobs go to Illegals becuase of the simple fact that the federal Gov't refuses to actually enforce the border. Altough banning credit reporting agencies might be a good ideal, especially after my last Divorce. Excuse the spelling errors, I am educated but its been a long long night.

[-] 1 points by OccupyWallStreetProtestDOTorg (1) 3 years ago

I'm curious to know why it's the government's responsibility to raise minimum wage in order for people to live their lives? Why should any company be forced to pay $20/hour to anyone?

[-] 1 points by muffinfordinner (1) 3 years ago

I'm surprised I'm not seeing a demand for prosecution of the white collar criminals involved in the subprime crisis. These people very possibly orchestrated an entire economic meltdown for their own profit. The CEOs who were fingered made a settlement and walked away. Obviously they don't want a prosecutor digging any deeper. This is completely unacceptable, and our top demand should be justice! If this really was a conspiracy to defraud millions of Americans, then what's to stop these people from doing it again, 10, 20 years from now when the economy finally recovers?

[-] 1 points by DewiMorgan (2) 3 years ago

Yeah. Specific demands are needed, but they need to be reasonable.

1: I don't know the issue well enough to comment, but it looks gov't subsidy related, so not corporate related, so irrelevant to this protest.

2: Free health care is a great idea, but a government one, not a corporate one. Insurance companies work just fine in the EU so no need to ban 'em. Reining them right the hell in, though, definitely needed, but it needs to start at the hospitals: they charge insane amounts.

3: even as someone who's lived on social security, I really don't like the idea of giving no strings attached minimum wage to anyone who asks. Possibly if the "living wage" were mostly in food stamps, or somesuch, then yes. However, this has nothing to do with corporations.

4: Even in the EU, this idea is dying. But making the loans have the same rules apply to them as normal ones (eg no bankruptcy immunity, etc) would be good. Again, this is nothing to do with corporations.

5: Needs explanation of how alt energy could possibly meet needs, before being viable. Again, NTDWC.

6: While you're at it, give everyone a free pony. Again, NTDWC.

7,8,9,10: Again, NTDWC. There are far too many completely irrelevant points here.

11: While debt forgiveness would be lovely, I'd need to see some kind of mechanism for how this could possibly begin to work. I think eradicating the large head of the very smallest debts could do absolute wonders for the economy and promote spending - but even sticking to just debts under $10k, I don't see how that could work.

12: Why outlaw credit reporting agencies? What would replace them? How would you outlaw that replacement? What good would it achieve? This sounds like it was just thought up by someone with a lousy credit rating.

13: I don't know the issue well enough to comment.

Honestly, while there are a couple of half-decent ideas hidden away in there, there is not a single demand that I can agree with in its entirety. I do not think any of these could garner wide support.

[-] 1 points by tpurt91 (1) 3 years ago

Even Paul Krugman, the left's biggest economic champion, would find this list absurd, contradictory, and lacking any reasonable economic foundations. It's just not based in reality. Anyone with a few economics courses under their belt, regardless of political affiliation, would quickly come to that conclusion upon reading this list. I admire the sentiments and passion behind this post, but there are real ways to make significant societal and economic changes, and few of them are found on this list.

[-] 1 points by LenL (1) from New York, NY 3 years ago

I googled OWS in order to make a donation -- which I will still do, though I don't agree with many of these demands. Some should be changed, some dropped.

  1. "Living Wage" -- don't mess with tariff issues. Do raise the minimum wage.
  2. Universal single payer health system -- Great goal. Getting to 2014 unscathed with the current health law is a more immediate goal.
  3. "Living wage without employment" -- drop this impractical proposal
  4. Free college education -- Reduce the costs of college education, forgive half of college loans, and repay the equivalent half to those who have paid.
  5. Alternative energy -- Replace fossil fuels as quickly as we can, but how quickly can we do that?
  6. Infrastructor spending -- Absolutely
  7. Ecological restoration -- I'm also with that (though nuclear is a non-fossil fuel energy)
  8. Equal Rights amendment -- Yes
  9. Open borders migration -- Internationally, with a capacity to monitor people who are dangerous (right and left)
  10. Elections we can trust -- Absolutely (and add: put an end to voter repression)
  11. Across the board debt forgiveness -- Evokes medieval prohibitions against lending with interest. Drop this.
  12. Outlaw credit reporting agencies -- Regulate them, instead.
  13. Union Ballot signatures -- absolutelyu LenL
[-] 1 points by SallieMae (1) 3 years ago

those demands sound ludicrous at best. You can't strike all debt from the books that doesn't even make sense and there is no basis for it other that you desire not to repay your debts. Credit reporting agencies are necessary to the lending industry, with no was of determining someone's pattern of repayment how can you adequately decide if you feel comfortable lending to them, if we immediately spend $2 trillion where the hell is that money going to come from...are we going to borrow that and then strike it from the books? $20 an hour minimum wage is a ridiculous notion. Most small business owners can't come close to affording to pay every employee that much per hour that wouldn't create jobs it would cause our country to lose them en masse to places like China & India where the wages are MUCH lower and getting rid of all the nuclear power plants would be the worst thing we could do right now it would only increase our immediate dependence on fossil fuels. Do you have any idea how long it will take America to replace all the fossil fuel energy generation with renewable sources...decades at best. Tons of our power comes from nuclear plants, we can't just get rid of that and not expect our energy prices to "necessarily skyrocket" as President Obama said. I don't know about you, but I already pay enough for my utilities i don't need them to go up at all much less sky rocket. Mr. Hart, you really ought to consult someone with A LOT more knowledge before you make such outlandish over the top posts on behalf of such a huge movement. You are only causing it to lose valuable credibility with the remaining Americans who haven't signed on yet. I am definitely for change, but certainly not the change you wish to see in this country.

[-] 1 points by myrtille (7) from Westborough, MA 3 years ago

Demand #1: good luck with that. then you can not compete in this world. Demand #2: Healthcare should also be separate from employment. Demand #3: very nice, very socialist. Not feasible. Demand #4: We love it in Europe. Demand #5: And tax the fossil fuel companies for a change. Demand 6&7: Alright you have to start somewhere, but, please no dollars amount, it may me more, it may be less. Demand #8: One would think you should have to even voice this one in this day and age... Demand #9: very hard to accomplish. please save for later. Demand #10: Ok Demand#11:No Demand #12: Not sure Demand #13: Save for another time. Demand#14: credits/tax breaks to companies who innovate, develop products and produce within the US. Demand#15: Reduce military pending. Focus spending on infrastructure and education. This is what we tell every underdeveloped nation!!!

[-] 1 points by myrtille (7) from Westborough, MA 3 years ago

Demand #1: good luck with that. then you can not compete in this world. Demand #2: Healthcare should also be separate from employment. Demand #3: very nice, very socialist. Not feasible. Demand #4: We love it in Europe. Demand #5: And tax the fossil fuel companies for a change. Demand 6&7: Alright you have to start somewhere, but, please no dollars amount, it may me more, it may be less. Demand #8: One would think you should have to even voice this one in this day and age... Demand #9: very hard to accomplish. please save for later. Demand #10: Ok Demand#11:No Demand #12: Not sure Demand #13: Save for another time. Demand#14: credits/tax breaks to companies who innovate, develop products and produce within the US. Demand#15: Reduce military pending. Focus spending on infrastructure and education. This is what we tell every underdeveloped nation!!!

[-] 1 points by myrtille (7) from Westborough, MA 3 years ago

Demand #1: good luck with that. then you can not compete in this world. Demand #2: Healthcare should also be separate from employment. Demand #3: very nice, very socialist. Not feasible. Demand #4: We love it in Europe. Demand #5: And tax the fossil fuel companies for a change. Demand 6&7: Alright you have to start somewhere, but, please no dollars amount, it may me more, it may be less. Demand #8: One would think you should have to even voice this one in this day and age... Demand #9: very hard to accomplish. please save for later. Demand #10: Ok Demand#11:No Demand #12: Not sure Demand #13: Save for another time. Demand#14: credits/tax breaks to companies who innovate, develop products and produce within the US. Demand#15: Reduce military pending. Focus spending on infrastructure and education. This is what we tell every underdeveloped nation!!!

[-] 1 points by myrtille (7) from Westborough, MA 3 years ago

Demand #1: good luck with that. then you can not compete in this world. Demand #2: Healthcare should also be separate from employment. Demand #3: very nice, very socialist. Not feasible. Demand #4: We love it in Europe. Demand #5: And tax the fossil fuel companies for a change. Demand 6&7: Alright you have to start somewhere, but, please no dollars amount, it may me more, it may be less. Demand #8: One would think you should have to even voice this one in this day and age... Demand #9: very hard to accomplish. please save for later. Demand #10: Ok Demand#11:No Demand #12: Not sure Demand #13: Save for another time. Demand#14: credits/tax breaks to companies who innovate, develop products and produce within the US. Demand#15: Reduce military pending. Focus spending on infrastructure and education. This is what we tell every underdeveloped nation!!!

[-] 1 points by myrtille (7) from Westborough, MA 3 years ago

Demand #1: good luck with that. then you can not compete in this world. Demand #2: Healthcare should also be separate from employment. Demand #3: very nice, very socialist. Not feasible. Demand #4: We love it in Europe. Demand #5: And tax the fossil fuel companies for a change. Demand 6&7: Alright you have to start somewhere, but, please no dollars amount, it may me more, it may be less. Demand #8: One would think you should have to even voice this one in this day and age... Demand #9: very hard to accomplish. please save for later. Demand #10: Ok Demand#11:No Demand #12: Not sure Demand #13: Save for another time. Demand#14: credits/tax breaks to companies who innovate, develop products and produce within the US. Demand#15: Reduce military pending. Focus spending on infrastructure and education. This is what we tell every underdeveloped nation!!!

[-] 1 points by myrtille (7) from Westborough, MA 3 years ago

Demand #1: good luck with that. then you can not compete in this world. Demand #2: Healthcare should also be separate from employment. Demand #3: very nice, very socialist. Not feasible. Demand #4: We love it in Europe. Demand #5: And tax the fossil fuel companies for a change. Demand 6&7: Alright you have to start somewhere, but, please no dollars amount, it may me more, it may be less. Demand #8: One would think you should have to even voice this one in this day and age... Demand #9: very hard to accomplish. please save for later. Demand #10: Ok Demand#11:No Demand #12: Not sure Demand #13: Save for another time. Demand#14: credits/tax breaks to companies who innovate, develop products and produce within the US. Demand#15: Reduce military pending. Focus spending on infrastructure and education. This is what we tell every underdeveloped nation!!!

[-] 1 points by InvisibleHand (4) 3 years ago

You sir, are woefully ignorant of how the world actually works. There is not a shred of economic wisdom in a single one of your demands. I will go through these demands, one by one, and explain why they make absolutely no sense. 1. Voluntary trade is beneficial to both parties. That is a basic tenet of macroeconomics. If the federal government placed any type of blanket tariff on imports, the economy would effectively shut down, as resources could not be channeled to their most effective uses. You mention domestic family farmers, but it is clear that you have absolutely no fucking clue what you're talking about. My uncle is a full-time independent farmer in South Carolina, and the vast majority of his machinery was manufactured, in part or in whole, outside of the United States. Any such tariff would cripple domestic farming rather than aid it. Furthermore, you call for a minimum wage of $20. The minimum wage is, in microeconomic terms, a price-floor. In the free-market, a price floor causes deadweight economic loss. Such a drastic increase in the minimum wage would cause rampant inflation and would decrease the real wealth of the American public severely. Really, your ignorance of basic economics appalls me. 2. I can't even parse what you are actually trying to say here. History has proven time and time again that private healthcare is considerably more efficient than public coverage, because, again, it channels resources to their most effective uses without the unnecessary intervention of government in the market. While some public subsidization may be necessary for low-income households, it is not the appropriate solution for those citizens who choose to purchase private health care coverage. Furthermore, a single-payer healthcare system would lead to inferior healthcare, as there would be no incentive for healthcare providers to compete with each other and therefore to develop new medicine and technology. Accordingly, doctors and nurses would actually make less money under a single-payer healthcare system since there would be no element of free market competition. As far as your comment concerning channeling money to Wall Street investors, I don't even know what to say. Again, you clearly have no sense of how the world actually works. 3. What? So basically, you are asking for the government to encourage people not to work by giving them something for nothing. Without any incentive for people to work, nothing would ever get done. There would be nobody to provide goods or services, and so your proposed government-subsidized wage would eventually become inherently worthless, since money would have no real value. People would just sit around and do nothing as the economy collapsed around them. Even the Soviets actually made people pretend to work. 4. The federal government simply does not have the resources to completely fund public college education. It is a lovely ideal, certainly, but it is financially unfeasible given the costs of higher education. As an alternate to total government funding, there are hundreds of state and community colleges with affordable tuition plans for state residents.

[-] 1 points by InvisibleHand (4) 3 years ago
  1. First of all, the government does not have the power, either legally or economically, to "end" the use of fossil-fuels. And even if it did, the outright ban of fossil fuels would lead to massive structural unemployment in the private sector (somewhere in the realm of 20% or more) and an outright economic meltdown. Please, go read an economics textbook or two.
  2. I will concede that spending on infrastructure is probably a good idea and largely necessary. However, 1 trillion dollars is about 7% of our nation's GDP. Given our government's current dire straits financially, that much unbalanced spending would cause the U.S. to default on its treasuries, and it would subsequently cause a global economic crisis. Not really what you had in mind, I'm sure.
  3. A decommissioning of nuclear power plants would again result in massive structural unemployment. And again, a trillion dollars of federal spending would sink the U.S. economy. I won't even comment on your nonsensical environmental ambitions.
  4. There is already abundant federal and state legislation requiring equal rights for all citizens, regardless of race and gender. An amendment to the Constitution on those same lines would be superfluous. Furthermore, deliberations on such an amendment would simply waste the time of lawmakers.
  5. You clearly do not understand what a nation is and how it works. Nations have established borders. People cannot just walk in willy-nilly and reap the benefits of public welfare programs reserved to citizens without paying income taxes.
  6. Since when is paper balloting an international standard? The system you propose would be cumbersome and entirely inefficient.
  7. Seriously, man, this is where I lost it. This just indicates that you do not have a lick of common sense or any basic intellectual skills. Debt cannot simply be erased. Debt is incurred when a good or service has been produced, and the monetary compensation for that good or service has not yet been rendered. If all outstanding debts were simply nullified, virtually every private business in the world, yes THE FUCKING WORLD, would have to discontinue its operations. The global economy would quickly be in the toilet, and our society would revert to the dark ages.
  8. Credit reporting is a necessary service, for which there is abundant demand in the free market. It cannot simply be outlawed. My suggested readings for you now include the U.S. Constitution.
  9. I actually have no qualms with this demand, other than the fact that it is logistically impossible. But hey, I loathe unions with every fiber of my being, so knock yourself out.

Lloyd J. Hart, you are truly a disgrace to America. We are now all stupider for having read this imbecilic drivel. May God have mercy on your soul.

Sincerely, A college student who actually studies economics, rather than pretending to know about it

[-] 1 points by InvisibleHand (4) 3 years ago

For the record, the reply form automatically renumbered my bullet points. Points 1-9 in my reply correspond with demands 5-13.

[-] 1 points by