What is THE END OF PROTEST?
Posted 9 years ago on June 3, 2015, 11:54 a.m. EST by OccupyWallSt
Tags:
Micah White
## [Micah White](http://micahmwhite.com) at [Ideas City 2015](http://ideas-city.org)
So what's going on here on this thread? Also fyi ... ''Who Is On The Left?'' by Margaret Kimberley: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article42039.htm - which is not a comfortable read but is probably very much in keeping with the subject matter of this News-Post.
IF comments are to be arbitrarily ''Removed'' without rhyme or reason - then what's the point of putting up this forum-post? - PR? Conceit? Propaganda? Self-aggrandizement? Egomania? Or .. just Hubris?!
My ''Removed'' reply to bw, included - ''From Marx to Goldman Sachs: The Fictions of Fictitious Capital'' by Prof.Michael Hudson - http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article26131.htm My recollection of this important article was evoked by rhetorical question of post title.[+ fyi: http://michael-hudson.com/ ]
Just how can anyone - let alone an 'Occupy Wall Street founder', consider that Goldman Sachs and the likes of the Rockerfeller Foundation ... would EVER consider the questions and points raised her OR ... ever act in the best interests of The 99% - as implied by ''The General Welfare Clause'' in The Preamble of The US Constitution?!'' Finally, beware of being ... "Recuperated into The Society of The Spectacle"!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~The comment above is a repeat of my ... Arbitrarily Removed (Shadow Banned) Reply from this thread, here: http://occupywallst.org/article/what-is-the-end-of-protest-micah-white/#comment-1060916 - and it already referenced a previous removed reply to bw. Just who is removing comments and replies on this forum is not the issue any more for me but why is Micah ''Boutique Consultancy''(PR Company?) White being prtected on this forum and why is he beyond inquiry and scrutiny and criticism?
It should NOT be much of a surprise (tho' still probably a shock!) .. that we here who post for The 99% true to OWS initial principles have to struggle against conservatives and de facto reactionaries here. If further proof is still required - please feel free to read 'The Founder's'' Twitter Time-Line!
''Finance capitalism has become a network of exponentially growing interest-bearing claims wrapped around the production economy. The internal contradiction is that its dynamic leads to debt deflation and asset stripping. The economy is turned into a Ponzi scheme by recycling debt service to make new loans to inflate property prices by enough to justify yet new lending. But a limit is imposed by the shrinking ability of surplus income to cover the debt service falling due. That is what the mathematics of compound interest are all about.
''Half a century of IMF austerity programs has demonstrated how destructive this usurious policy is, by limiting the economy’s ability to create a surplus. Yet economies throughout the world now base their pension planning, medical insurance, state and local finances on a faith in compound interest, without seeing the inner contradiction that debt deflation shrinks the domestic market and blocks economies from developing.
''This makes blue-collar wage earners pay a much higher tax rate than the FIRE sector and the upper income brackets. FICA paycheck withholding has become a forced “saving in advance,” ostensibly to be invested for future “entitlement” spending but in practice lent to the Treasury to enable it to cut taxes on the higher brackets. Instead of financing Social Security and Medicare out of progressive taxes levied on the highest income brackets – mainly the FIRE sector – the dream of privatizing these entitlement programs is to turn this tax surplus over to financial managers to bid up stock and bond prices, much as pension-fund capitalism did from the 1960s onward.
''A century ago most economic futurists imagined that labor would earn higher wages and spend them on rising living standards. But for the past generation, labor has used its income simply to carry a higher debt burden. Income over and above basic needs has been “capitalized” into debt service on bank loans used to finance debt-leveraged housing, and to pay for education (originally expected to be paid out of the property tax) and other basic needs. Although debtors’ prisons are a thing of the past, a financial characteristic of our time is the “post-industrial” obligation to work a lifetime to pay off such debts.Meanwhile, the FIRE sector now accounts for 40 percent of U.S. business profit, despite the tax-accounting fictions cited earlier.
''Financial lobbyists have led a regressive about-face toward an economic Counter-Enlightenment. Reversing an eight-century tendency to favor debtors, the bankruptcy laws have been rewritten along creditor-oriented lines by banks, credit-card companies and other financial institutions, and put into the hands of politicians in what best may be called a financialized democracy – or as the ancients called it, oligarchy. Shifting the tax burden onto labor while using government revenue and new debt creation to bail out the banking sector has polarized the U.S. economy to the most extreme degree since statistics began to be collected.
''The Progressive Era expected planning to pass into the hands of government, not those of a financial sector at odds with industrial capital formation and economic growth. Nearly everyone a century ago expected infrastructure to be developed in the public domain, in the form of public utilities whose services would be provided freely or at least at subsidized rates in order to lower the price of living and doing business. Instead, public enterprises since about 1980 have been privatized – on credit – and turned into tollbooth privileges to extract economic rent. Bankers capitalize these opportunities, which are sold on credit.
''Little is left for the tax collector after charging off interest, depreciation and amortization, managerial salaries and stock options. The resulting tax squeeze impoverishes economies, obliging governments either to cut back their spending or shift the fiscal burden onto labor and non-financialized industry. The resulting financial dynamic is more like what Marx described as usury-capital than industrial banking.''
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Excerpted and heavily abridged from: ''From Marx to Goldman Sachs: The Fictions of Fictitious Capital'' by Prof.Michael Hudson - http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article26131.htm My recollection of this important article above was evoked by your rhetorical question.[+ fyi: http://michael-hudson.com/ ]
Just how can anyone - let alone an 'Occupy Wall Street founder', consider that Goldman Sachs and the likes of the Rockerfeller Foundation ... would EVER consider the questions and points raised above OR ever act in the best interests of The 99% - as implied by ''The General Welfare Clause'' in The Preamble of The US Constitution?!
[This is a replacement to my arbitrarily ''removed'' reply to bw,{referenced in my first comment above} .. from this thread here: http://occupywallst.org/article/what-is-the-end-of-protest-micah-white/#comment-1060906 and I do NOT accept that there are ANY justifiable reasons for its removal - therefore, I resist!]
well ... I'm surprised to hear Micah speak like this ... however I think I understand his thinking ... or lack of...
imo... there are many many people who think that Occupy should have had a conclusion ... an ending and ultimate success ... or otherwise it was a failure ....
well ... imo... those people and including Micah it appears ... never really understood what Occupy is ....
Occupy is a "Movement" ...
A "Movement" ... of minds ...
A "Movement" ... of thinking...
A "Movement" ... of goals... etc...
and to that ... there is no end ....
as we learn more and more ... more questions are raised ....
it's never - ending ....
Occupy has produced thousands of projects that have been extremely successful and will continue to be for years to come....
For most of us who witnessed the Anti-VietNam Movement ... We still keep that candle burning ... and still continue to fight against war still...
Movements do not end for those who believe in them ... maybe Micah needs to take another look... imo
http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-triumph-of-occupy-wall-street-by-michael-levit/
Responding here as there was no response available where you made your comment.
We disagree as to what is acceptable behavior - in responding to opt-out individuals.
You go ahead and be polite (diplomatic) - and - I will continue with being straight forward honest and YES - at times hostile. You wanna hold their hands and lead them into the light? Go ahead - I won't stand in your way - I on the other-hand am damn sick and tired of mollycoddling the ignorant and have nothing to spare for those who are actively working to destroy the world.
I don't mind you being straight forward, honest, even hostile sometimes. For you to remove posts and sing songs attempting to disrupt discussions because you feel some sort of "team" is trying to convince others to opt out is absurd. Like minded people react positively to posts they like, it's that simple. Why don't I see posts from others that agree with you about your new idea for the forum? Are they Messaging you that they agree with you finally becoming hostile and changing the forum?
Flatulantacres - how many individuals actually are there remaining who can make a comment?
I don't run this forum (obviously) or those that "I" truly do feel are agent provocateurs of the 1% would not be here any-longer.
Are you saying you haven't changed the forum?
"I" have NOT changed the forum - if I had the power to do so - why - would I let a bunch of opt-out bullshitters remain here?
Removing posts is similar to not allowing them to remain here. I want to know if you are moderator or not.
Am I a moderate? No I would say definitely not. Do I have my opinions which I fully express? You damn well betcha.
quote ... " You damn well betcha..."
now I got it !!! DK... you're a Sarah Palin supporter !!!
hehehe... you got to admit ... that was funny !!! :)
No . . . no . . . . Sarah would be funny - "if" she had no following - what she "is" is scary - more so to think that people actually put her into office to represent them.
hehehe ... small potatoes ... don't worry about the bought for politicians that much... there are zillions in line waiting to be bought... worry about the guys doing the buying
Money can't buy an office - not outright - not yet - people opting out however does make getting scum into office much easier.
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hehehe... no... DK ... I live in DC ... I know many of our so called elected elite ... money can Definitely buy most seats ... and does ....
furthermore ... a lot of the votes are rigged ...and/or thrown in the trash
Social media may be enough but I doubt it. We need brave reporters to expose the corruption dramatically to get the masses attention. When the MSM fights back, we will need social media to be prepared to show how corrupt the MSM is, and has been. Make enough noise.
but.. to add..
what we can do to overcome the corrupt related voting problems ... is to make enough noise... and gain enough support for good candidates .. and there are many ... and if we can show that support in large enough numbers... then the corrupt guys would find it much more difficult to abuse the system....
I too have learned a lot about how our corrupt system works, especially since my niece's husband has been a partner in the lobbying firm Squire Patton Boggs. Not being invited for holidays in Virginia is a small price to pay for being a supporter of Occupy.
so... DK... you have not removed any posts ?
I have in my time. You?
BTW - why are you continuing this pointless argument instead of being productive? I have not seen you make any comments or posts for a very long time - and now - here you are - not being productive.
quote..."... I have not seen you make any comments or posts for a very long time ..."
yes I know... I do not like posting on moderated forums.... but I do stop in and read here often ...
the removing of posts here... has pretty much chased me away ...
added :: ... I like to read everyone's posts... and especially the ones I disagree with ... how else will I understand the challenges that face us ?
Sure I can see how that might.
So.
How many of your posts were removed that ended up chasing you off?
I don't think any of my posts were removed.... but I don't come here to read my posts ;)
I seriously doubt that he will answer that question honestly.
Your opinions are welcome. Why do you answer by saying you're not a moderate, I asked if you were a moderator.
No I am not a moderator - I am a self appointed spokesman for the world - and there is little that one can be moderate about considering the world at this point in time. I have no patience nor time for fools - the world has no time for fools - WTFU !
Then I ask the same question BradB asked, what's happening to the forum? Who is removing posts, etc.?
Why don't you ask the site? There "is" an e-mail address for your queries.
DK... why are there so many removed posts now ?.... and who is removing them ?
There have been many removed comments and posts - since the beginning of this site. I do not see that that has changed. What you might wonder - is - why do the posters remain if their comments and posts are not welcome - THAT - baffles me.
quote ..." why do the posters remain if their comments and posts are not welcome - THAT - baffles me...."
well .. here in America .... we believe in ... FREEDOM OF SPEECH
That must be it then. I know that I am still here regardless of the crap I get. Freedom of speech - YAY.
agree :)
Right, and Occupy is important to us and we're not going to sit back and allow one person to tell us what this movement stands for. Imagine this: We have our own ideas.
Not welcome by YOU! Good grief, you are such a tyrant.
How do ya think they were getting voted up!? Because other people liked them. Just you didn't. The fact that you think you are in charge of the Occupy Wall Street movement and how it's followers should think is what baffles me.
OH - my bad - it's just you and your cronies who represent what OWS should and would and could think and or represent - again - MY BAD for having my own thoughts. FUCK YOU!!!!!
see.... there you ... YOU DK ... go again ... cursing fellow members !!! ... and you're the moderator ??? ... this site might be doomed !!!
added: look at all the time that has been wasted arguing over your control of the forum.... when we could have been doing productive things !!!
Who made you step in to an argument that had nothing to do with you?
Not I.
So - please - be productive.
Who said you shouldn't have your own thoughts? You definitely should as should everyone else here. There should be a level playing field, everyone thinking for themselves and deciding what they like or don't like. You can't come at us with a gun when we're holding a knife and say it's fair because it's not!
Who has stopped you from liking what you like or disliking what you don't like? I don't have a vote & you don't have a vote. Level playing field. Just don't expect that I will ignore crap that you or anyone else spouts. That means just like you get in my face when you feel like it - you can expect that I will get in your face when I feel like it.
So, you are a moderator and you are the one removing comments.
You get in my face, you get in everyone's face that you don't like, whether they were responding to you or not. Cut it out. Let people moderate their own threads and if you don't like a thread or a comment just ignore it. Just like we can like things without voting, you can dislike without voting. You don't need to remove, just ignore. It's not all about you!
BUT BW you are making it ALL about me. Have your comments been removed? I can still see them - so - I am thinking = No.
Reply to below. No, no, no. You remove true occupiers comments and you do it regularly. It's book burning on the internet and you shouldn't be doing it.
I'd safely say there are no trolls here anymore, unless of course some here are working for political parties, but that is only for them to know. I think that would make them trolls, but I'd still say they have a right to be here. It doesn't bother me as we can always debate issues, we don't need to remove and bully.
No one left here on this forum is a troll for goodness sake!
Sure sure - no opt-out do nothing and hand it all over to the 1% trolls.
If only!
I am well aware of my comments that have been removed. See, I'm wise enough to log out occasionally and have a look. No, you haven't removed them tonight, but I've challenged you not to right? I challenge you not to remove anymore comments except possibly those on your own threads, though I dislike any removal of comments.
Aware of book burnings? ""Book burning" refers to the ritual destruction by fire of books or other written materials. Usually carried out in a public context, the burning of books represents an element of censorship and usually proceeds from a cultural, religious, or political opposition to the materials in question."
Kind of an ugly thing in history, the censorship of anyone and anything. I suggest you cut it out. Let people post what they want. If you don't like what they say, don't focus on it and just go on posting what you want.
I for one, have never wished for you to be silenced but your silencing of others by removing their comments is not right.
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I have never removed a pertinent comment - when I was able to - I did remove trolls.
DK.... the world is not going to get destroyed.... we could have ww3 ... and life will still make it... maybe not too comfortably... but what WE CAN DO ... is improve stuff ... and EVERYONE here ... including me and you want to improve things... together WE ARE A FORCE .... and someday a 99% Force... don't divide us.... that's what the 1% want ....
The "world" may very well survive - but not the life on it - and it wouldn't take WWIII to end all life (as we know it) on the planet - all it takes is to let life go on as it is - destroying the environment with pollution - fossil fuel pollution as well as other industrial pollution such as the Fukushima and/or Chernobyl nuclear reactor meltdowns.
Talk to them about wanting to improve things - as - so far they don't want to.
And - NO - bitching and moaning does not count as wanting to make improvements - forwarding actions for the public to unite in in supporting by taking action IS - and that includes removing thugs from office and putting in good people who are for the people (all of the people around the world) and for the environment.
alienating your friends is not a way to succeed in anything
You consider yourself to be a friend? and alienated? What have I done to you to alienate you? You may not agree with my point of view nor my comments to others - but - does that make me your enemy? Does not the current state of the world - mean more to you than how I converse with others? Others who I have long acquaintance with and plenty of time to review their activities? You seem willing to judge me harshly - and judge "them" not at all.
well...read your posts objectively (not posts with me) ...and decide who is on the attack ... if you can't see it ... you should not be moderating this forum ... jmho
added ... imo ... only the very nasty posts should be removed from any forum (if that) ... not posts of difference of opinion ...
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Change of tactics, change of law, standing up, the national international challenge.
Makes me want to go help the sanders movement.
We really need some one to stand up and lead, this is a selfless smart leader, to spread the ideas of rationalism by speaking the truth.
Good viewing, thanks for these educational moments
Consider: ''From Marx to Goldman Sachs: The Fictions of Fictitious Capital'' by Prof.Michael Hudson ... http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article26131.htm My recollection of this important article above was evoked by your rhetorical question.[+ fyi: http://michael-hudson.com/ ]
Btw .. just how can anyone consider that Goldman Sachs and the likes of the Rockerfeller Foundation, would EVER consider the questions and points raised above OR .. ever act in the best interests of The 99% - as implied by ''The General Welfare Clause'' in The Preamble of The US Constitution?! Solidarity to you and yours. + fyi: http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/31201-who-pays-taxes-in-the-us-everyone-but-the-super-rich
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Hell yes, his references to history, how social progress was made by long struggle of the people, through standing up for their civil right, they will be given the right in law, a new civil right, to have a voice equal to the voice of the wealthy, who magnify their power within the current system, of money equal to speech and rule. Take the TPP. For instance. Who is writing these laws?
Consider: ''The argument that things will now get much worse and push people into action is politically naive because there are never any political guarantees of how people will act in the face of massive repression. They could, for all intents and purposes, go either left or right. And that is why such outcomes have to be struggled over both educationally and politically in the interests of creating a radical democratic society. Now is the time for working-class people to join with others to create new political formations, to rethink the possibilities of politics and to organize for both short-term gains and long-term fundamental changes. It is time to flip the script.''
From - http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/31238-flipping-the-script-rethinking-working-class-resistance +
http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/30978-movement-builders-should-listen-to-bernie-sanders-focus-on-mass-action-not-candidates
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