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Forum Post: Occupy The Web - Help the entire country protest from the keyboard

Posted 1 year ago on Sept. 6, 2012, 1:09 a.m. EST by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Thx again DK for your feedback and any opinions you have on any of this.


Occupy The Web

Lot of us clicktavists on here. Myself, felt like shit that I couldn't even attend the Occupy RNC in my own state because I got no money and a shitty car. Lot of people out there interested in Occupy but can't do much for similar reasons. The ground protesters have their hands full and are maxed out on cash. So, I am presenting yet another idea. I was harassed endlessly for my first project and I didn't have any real direction. Now, I do. Now I am asking before starting a new one. I would like opinions, good and bad, about something I just suggested to DK. The concept is as follows.

  1. Create a target list, like the big the MSM networks and the FCC to start.

  2. Create an agreed upon, well though out, fact checked, multipaged document of complaints for each target.

  3. Create a website with a page for each target.

3A. Add social buttons to direct sharing by visitors to the targets social media, such as "@MSNBC" for twitter.

3B. Place a link on each target page to direct traffic to a petition built on the document, on Change.org maybe.

This forum would be used for collecting information about what these complaints are by specific threads for each target. After refinement, they would be presented to at least the NYGA for approval before posting. Like my last project, this would not be designed for me alone. I have no experience with petitions, nor am I the person for such complex documents. This is something we can do on the web to help add support for the ground protesters and apply additional pressure to the system for positive change.

Thoughts?


If anyone likes the idea enough to take it and run with it (hint hint), feel free. It's only a concept and there are plenty of you capable of doing it.

71 Comments

71 Comments


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[-] 3 points by NVPHIL (664) 1 year ago

I think this is a great idea. Focusing attention on individual businesses with corrupt practices can hurt their bottom line. We should also show support to the companies that care about their community. Show them they can make money without sucking the life out of the country.

[-] 2 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

Good point. The project could be made educational as well.

[-] 0 points by Forrester (13) 1 year ago

As far as corps go, Costco is one of the better ones. The CEO/founder has regularly gotten the board pissed off at him for wanting to pay his employees better than most places. I am sure they are not perfect though.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (27682) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

This would also be a great approach to get politicians and those running for office to go on record.

[-] 2 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

Good call

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (27682) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Also perhaps a great avenue to protest corpoRATions and their abuses.

[-] 2 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

Exactly. Any particular government and/or business entity would qualify. Instead of industry wide it would target individual institutions.

[-] 4 points by Renneye (3626) 1 year ago

How about one directed specifically at the US military? The Pentagon? I have a few choice words!

[-] 4 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

Another good point.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (27682) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Absolutely. I also think that sharing these protests with the public for their review is a great way to educate.

[-] 1 points by elf3 (2362) 1 year ago

Hi Richard take look at this lost compiled by the Environmental Working Group - perhaps we could have something like it in this regard to let the public know about things corporations are doing and rate them.

http://www.ewg.org/guides/cleaners

Then link it with citizen letters that could go directly to the company and congress simultaneously

[-] 1 points by GNAT (150) 1 year ago

This is a good idea

[-] 0 points by elf3 (2362) 1 year ago

Take a look at this list posted by the environmental working group -

http://www.ewg.org/guides/cleaners

perhaps we could compile a list rating corporations with a grade and information

then have a link with letters that could go directly to congress and the corporate headquarters simultaneously.

[-] 0 points by Forrester (13) 1 year ago

What if we made a list of the 10 worst corporations, and then targeted them one at a time for a boycott.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Excellent idea!

I will contribute. Skank of America, & Monsanto.

Next!

Peace.

[-] -1 points by Forrester (13) 1 year ago

The first one is good, but we may want a list of retail stores to target before taking on corps. like Monsanto that are kind of removed from our daily lives. Stores like Wal-Mart, Target, Home Depot etc., along with the individual banks, I think would be best.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Ok. I can handle that. Kinda hard to boycott monsanto,I mentioned because of the official post against on this site. have you seen it?

Any big bank (or all) can be targeted with another "move your money" event like last year.

Wal mart is great because of it's chinese import/job killing business model, and poor treatment of workers. I don't have any near me. We have so far kept them out of nyc.

Good luck I will join in where I can.

[-] 0 points by Forrester (13) 1 year ago

I just think, the simpler we that we make it, the better. Many people do not have the time to go to web sites as they are so involved in the daily grind. So although social media is the best place to get this started, we should also look to printing out posters and flyers to reach an even wider amount of people.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Sounds like a good approach.

And getting more people involved in actions WILL grow the movement. We should look for companies that many people know, use, and are universally disgusted with.

If that's not too difficult.

[-] 0 points by Forrester (13) 1 year ago

I would think that it would not be too difficult at all. It would just require doing the research on the corps that have been the most harmful to the people, then creating a condensed list of grievances as to why people should not do business there. If the boycott for the first corp were successful, it may cause the corp that was next on our list to capitulate without having to boycott them at all, and we could just move on to the next.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

building bombs 'til bunkers boil

getting paid for shell filled toil

if I am to work tomorrow

lobe the load on foreign soil


yep US only pays 41% of the total world military budget

World Military budget in Billions (percent total) by Nation

  • 1,630 World Total
  • 711 United States 41%
  • 143 China 8.2%
  • 71.9 Russia 4.1%
  • 62.7 United Kingdom 3.6 %
  • 62.5 France 3.6%
  • 54.5 Japan 3.3&
  • 48.2 Saudi Arabia 2.8%
  • 46.8 India 2.5%
  • 46.7 Germany 2.8%
  • 37.0 Italy 2.3%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures


Global Arms Sales By Supplier Nations

39% United States

18% Russia

8% France

7% United Kingdom

5% Germany

3% China

3% Italy

11% Other European

5% Others

http://www.globalissues.org/article/74/the-arms-trade-is-big-business#GlobalArmsSalesBySupplierNations


TOP 10 Arms Produces

Notes: An S denotes a subsidiary company. A dash (–) indicates that the company did not rank among the SIPRI Top 100 for 2009

  • Lockheed Martin USA 35,730 33,430 78
  • BAE Systems UK 32,880 32,540 95
  • Boeing USA 31,360 32,300 49
  • Northrop Grumman USA 28,150 27,000 81
  • General Dynamics USA 23,940 23,380 74
  • Raytheon USA 22,980 23,080 91
  • BAE Systems Inc. (BAE Systems, UK) USA 17,900 19,280 100
  • EADS Trans-European 16,360 15,930 27
  • Finmeccanica Italy 14,410 13,280 58 +L-3 Communications USA 13,070 13,010 83
  • United Technologies USA

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/mar/02/arms-sales-top-100-producers

[-] 0 points by Forrester (13) 1 year ago

I haven't seen these statistics/info in a while, so thanks for putting it up. There is no doubt that the MID is a big problem in this country, and in the world as well for anyone who truly wants peace.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Aaaah! yes. I didn't even think of that. we should target the easiest to rally against, the most prone to a boycott, maybe weakest financially, most vulnerable to pressure, because then others might cave quickly when that one caves.

Excellent. Good luck.

[-] 0 points by Forrester (13) 1 year ago

That criteria is all good, but we could add on, the corps that have done, and still are doing the most egregious harm to the 99%. And we could also think about having different segments of the economy on our list to keep it interesting, ie. the hospitality industry, dept. stores, speciality stores, building supplies, high tech, etc. Still though, just one place at a time would get our full wrath. If this proved successful, we may then feel empowered enough to think about targeting two or more corps at a time. This is something that could definitely be organized, and initiated on this forum too. Then from here out into the social media world, and then into the real world.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Wide organization and coordination would make it most effective.

Peace

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

I hope to have far more than 10.

Not a bad idea, though an organized boycott has a lot of predicable and some not so predictable and unseen consequences. That is beyond my intentions.

[-] 0 points by Forrester (13) 1 year ago

It would be difficult to sustain a wide-spread boycott on several corps because unfortunately we have come to rely on them, but targeting a single one might work especially when more people are made aware. The second corp on our list would know that they are next, and so on. What are the "predictable and unseen consequences?"

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

Predictable consequence include but are not limited to..

  1. Slower product demand leading to layoffs
  2. If it's a publicly traded company lower stock value could inadvertently effect the stock value of companies in the same industry if mistaken for a broader trend.
  3. There could be legal consequences for the organizer of a boycott such as libel and/or slander.
[-] 0 points by Forrester (13) 1 year ago

When workers go on strike, there is economic pain that they, and their families have to endure. It is with the hope of obtaining long lasting benefits that they are willing to make this sacrifice. That same principle applies here. I question whether there would be any legal ramifications for organizers, but I don't know.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

Going on strike is a decision made by those it will effect. That is not our decision to make. It's an aggressive overreach in my opinion to organize boycotts.

[-] 0 points by Forrester (13) 1 year ago

Aren't we in effect boycotting the big banks in favor of credit unions? What's the difference?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (27682) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Non-profit credit union - also supports the area in which it is located.

[-] 0 points by Forrester (13) 1 year ago

Yes, I believe the loans they make are much more localized. I don't know how prevalent it is, but the employees don't seem so 'cookie cutter' like in my credit union, which I appreciate.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

hmmm. I suppose it can be seen that way. What I watched was people becoming more educated about the differences between the two types of banking and making a decision based on those differences. In contrast, a boycott is not a recognition of choices but rather an aggressive move based on a set of complaints.

[-] 0 points by Forrester (13) 1 year ago

Hasn't pulling your money out of the big banks been promoted by OWS? No matter how you look at it, there was/is economic pain for low rung bank employees who were not responsible for the economic crisis. We have to keep our eyes on the big picture, and make decisions on what is best for the long term, in my opinion anyway.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

lol. I haven't had enough money to justify a bank account in years man. The only transferring I've done is transferring cash from my pocket to the hands of those selling me what I need.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

few banks pay significant interest on savings

[-] 0 points by Forrester (13) 1 year ago

Don't think I am talking about bundles of $ either. lol

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

Word ;)

[+] -4 points by Suetorp (-104) 1 year ago

Letters to the Pentagon, to the president, etc... are useless apart from giving you the illusion that you are helping.

Online petitions are also useless apart from giving you the illusion that you are helping.

The only thing that brings change are ground protests (medium to fast change) and well written scholar articles on politics and economy (slow change). If you want to help from the Internet there are two ways which are effective:

  • 1) Use the Internet to advertize real life events so that the maximum amount of people show up.
  • 2) Use the Internet to coordinate real life events.

The second option only works if some of the people involved are on the ground as well. Making a bridge with protesters on this site would permit this.

As for talking about economic and political problems, you can do it for fun, but, unless you are a scholar who really understands these disciplines in depth, it won't do much good. There are many forums on the Internet that cater to those who want to talk about economy and politics in a serious manner. This site is just for fun.

Again, online petitions and sending letters DOES NOT help. It's actually dangerous because it fools you in thinking you are helping when you are just wasting your time.

[-] 3 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

Social pressure is the only tool we need. It is he very essence of peaceful protest. Or did you miss the civil rights protest? Social pressure can be applied in various ways as it is purely psychological.

[-] -2 points by Suetorp (-104) 1 year ago

Writing letters to the president, letters to the Pentagon, and creating online petitions are very psychological indeed: they fool people into thinking they are applying pressure when they are not. The president and the Pentagon don't care about letters that you send them. They might care about large street protests however. Similarly, online petitions are unofficial and mean very little. A real petition with real signatures for your mayor might make an impact. When large governmental structures want to know what the people want, they create a referendum like Proposition 8 in California.

But, do whatever you feel like. This is my opinion, and there are people like DKAtoday who don't share it. He thinks his letters to the president are making a difference. He just leaves me scratching my head.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (27682) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Then You should be scratching your head constantly Odin. As you have a huge blind spot(?) R wearing blinders(?) have tunnel vision(?) prejudice(?) lack of understanding(?) lack of education(?) Or is it worse then that?

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (27682) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

It is worse then that - U R trashy - the deluded drifting one.

[-] -1 points by Suetorp (-104) 1 year ago

I'm not Odin. There's no reason to get angry, I was only expressing an opinion because Richard asked us to - Read the OP - "thoughts". Is it possible to discuss issues like adults?

If you feel like what you are doing is worthwhile then, by all means, keep it up. We only have one life to live. We should do what we believe in.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

You should always add a suggestion with your complaint. Simply complaining without it is saying, "it's not worth the time". If it's not worth the time, then your time on this forum is equally worthless. Follow?

And I thought as much, Odin would have had a better formed argument.

[-] -2 points by Suetorp (-104) 1 year ago

Did you read my first comment above. I added two suggestions. They are in point form. Please, go back and make an effort to read. Thank you.

You asked us our thoughts and I gave them WITH suggestions. You have no reason to be hostile, and there is no reason for ad hominem snark attacks in the style of "And I thought as much, Odin would have had a better formed argument.". If you have nothing to say, then just keep quiet. Dishing out insults on this forum does not help anyone, and it just makes you look like a child who can discuss matters seriously.

Don't ask us our thoughts if you can't accept a different opinion than yours.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/occupy-the-web-help-the-entire-country-protest-fro/#comment-826502

[-] 2 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

Great. That is already being done. And better than I could do it, I might add. You weren't actually making point on this topic, you're distracting. You haven't voiced an opinion, you have only voiced opposition. If you don't like the forum, nobody is keeping you here.

[-] -2 points by Suetorp (-104) 1 year ago

If I didn't like the forum I wouldn't be here. I did share an opinion and I did so in a polite way, if you can't understand that, then so be it. I don't harbor any venom in my heart.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

You voiced opposition and distraction in a polite way. Great, you know how to be civil. That adds no validity to your claim that it was anything but opposition and distraction. You have suggested what I should be doing instead and why I shouldn't be doing it at all. Neither of those are suggestions on how to move forward with the project.

[-] -2 points by Suetorp (-104) 1 year ago

Read the comments on this whole page. The only distractions are the hostile attacks coming from you and DKAtoday. I simply offered my opinion. If that opinion contrasts yours so what? Are you here to listen to Richard clones? Isn't good to have diverse minds on the forum? If you don't agree with my opinions and suggestions, then just say so. If you want to discuss them, then discuss them. These attacks are useless and they are the real distraction.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (27682) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

trashy still talking in the 3rd person? Why U being so evasive about owning up 2 who U R ?

You asked us our thoughts and I gave them WITH suggestions.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (27682) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Um your comment is not a new one and neither R U new to this 4um. So who R U trashy(?) vvvRBHBtheprshill?

[-] -1 points by Suetorp (-104) 1 year ago

What's with the anger. Sorry, I don't discuss issues with people who can't act and write like adults.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (27682) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

No anger. Whats with the evasion? U R not new to the forum - who did U used 2 B ? How many times have U been Booted ?

[-] -1 points by Suetorp (-104) 1 year ago

Act like and adult and I will reply to you. Until then, this is my last comment for you. Don't write in SMS form, I'm not here to read phone messages and I'm not 15. And, please, stop making all kinds of assumptions. If you want to know something, ask in a polite way.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (27682) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Whatever Odin - were U booted again yesterday?

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

It's amazing that you can watch the social dynamics play out on this forum and still not get it. Oh well. Guess you've learned enough, no need to learn more.

[-] -3 points by Suetorp (-104) 1 year ago

What I see on this forum are a few regular users that I can count on my hand who attack one another without learning anything. Do you know anyone here who changed his mind about something? I don't. Honestly, and this is just my opinion, remember you asked us our thoughts in your OP, I don't believe this site helps OWS at all. I think it actually harms the protest as it gives newcomers the impression that we are a bunch of unorganized kids who just bitch and make no headway. Luckily, there are people on the ground doing real actions for their communities.

I'm only here to practice writing. Some people post news articles, but I read the news on news sites. The others who post ideas and arguments usually don't go very deep. I learn politics and economics on forums dedicated for that. The purpose of this site, which jart mentioned a few times, was originally to help the protesters organize their activities. Unfortunately, just like she said, that goal never materialized.

[-] 1 points by ogoj11 (263) 1 year ago

Hi Sue, Please post to occupy Raleigh's Forum. I'm hoping to stimulate more discussion there. http://forum.occupyraleigh.net/ I think your complaint that no one changes his (sexism?) mind and that we're childish (ageism) is simplistic. People rarely read or hear something that flips an opinion completely around. What usually happens is more piecemeal, cumulative. I'm sure you'll agree if you think about how your own opinions on any complex topic have developed.

[-] -1 points by Suetorp (-104) 1 year ago

How is saying that people don't change their minds a sexist comment?

And, "childish" is an expression. Ageism... please. Have you never seen an adult act in a way that you would define as "childish". It's not a fairy tale. It does exist.

[-] 1 points by ogoj11 (263) 1 year ago

Touchy. Children are complex people. To reduce them to emotional simpletons devalues them. And, on sexism, I was pointing to your use of the generic 'his' (line 2 above). Peace.

[-] 0 points by Suetorp (-104) 1 year ago

I should have said his or her. Granted. Next time I'll use one's mind. Thanks for the precision.

As for the expression being "childish", I think you're pushing the boundaries of political correctness to the confines of the ridicule.

[-] 1 points by ogoj11 (263) 1 year ago

I have a very fierce child who keeps me educated on the oppression of children. There is actually a striking similarity between the ways children are denigrated and the ways women are denigrated.

My daughter taught me to watch children; they generally know a lot about how to live. I'm only half kidding when I say I'm a fan of Honey Boo-Boo.

[-] 0 points by Suetorp (-104) 1 year ago

Childish means behavior which relates to a child. If you think children are like adults, then you should let your daughter drive your car, have sex with your neighbor, drink beer with you, etc... The fact is, children are not adults. Don't forget that, or you'll be bringing her to the abortion clinic when she's 13.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (27682) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Odin U can stop pretending.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

Ah yes. The disgruntled one. I don't see you doing anything to create change. I just see you attacking other who want to do something and attacking some who are already doing things. Again, where is your blog, your project, your anything but bitching?

[-] -3 points by Suetorp (-104) 1 year ago

I use this site to practice writing, and I protest in the street for OWS. I don't have anything to prove to anyone. I discuss issues here, that's all. I don't attack other users more than anybody else. I wrote in a polite way in this posting of yours and both you and DKAtoday made hostile attacks. I simply offered an opinion with suggestions backed up by arguments. If you decide to spit on that it's OK by me. It would be better to cooperate and act like adults, but, if that's impossible, I'll accept it.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

No, you don't protest on the street. False claim of credibility. And yes, you do attack, and complain, and whine, and bitch, and piss, and moan.

Again, where is your blog, your project, your anything but bitching?

[-] -1 points by Suetorp (-104) 1 year ago

Believe what you will Richard. I commented on your posting to offer an opinion because you asked us to. I did so in a polite and adult manner. I provided arguments, and also suggestions as to what would be worthwhile on the Internet. If you decide to react in an hostile way because you don't agree with my opinion, that's OK. But, why do you want to hear what people have to say if it's only to dish them for it.

Times change. I learned a lot on this site. At first, I had a sour taste when I thought of anarchy, but now I see that it's important for OWS. I'm doing very much the same thing you are doing here. I'm sharing ideas and learning. And, when I see something I don't like which I think is hurting OWS I mention it.

Don't get angry for nothing. You're better than that.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

Obviously you have nothing further. I think our exchange is at a dead end. Thx anyway.

[-] -1 points by Suetorp (-104) 1 year ago

You didn't offer anything for me to comment on. You only attacked me with an hostile heart. I hope my suggestion at the top made you think a little. Perhaps you were able to learn a thing or two.Thx anyway.