Forum Post: Nobody Owes You A Living
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 13, 2011, 2:17 p.m. EST by figero
(661)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I don't know - this is what I heard growing up and it has served me well. Maybe those who didn't hear this statement growing up should go occupy their parents. oh yea - when not occupying the park you are probably occupying your parents basement already lol!
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with inherent and inalienable Rights; that among these, are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness; that to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
So yes, you are owed a right to Life, and you have the right to collect on that.
having a right to life, means you can live.
It does not mean someone pays you to live.
It means no one has a right to kill you.
Thank you.
Its the "pursuit of happiness" you have to go out there and take it, you can't just sit around pissed off because you didn't take the big risks that most of the 1% took to be where they are. Yes they can throw that around, Money talks, it always has, and it always will.
Yes thats annoying in polotics, but its inevitable, and trying to restrict it will only make it dirtier and more hidden from the public eye.
You are welcome!
The key part of that statement that gets missed "that among these" meaning that these are not the only rights granted. They relied on the countries ability to govern with loyalty to it's persons (individuals).
As long as you're not active killing me (life) or actively impeding me from actions that do not harm others (liberty), I'm pretty sure you've given me the ability to pursue happiness. I don't need anything else to thrive in this world. As long as the government stays out of my way, I will succeed just fine. I'm sorry you feel so impotent about your own capabilities.
It says nothing about handing over the money you do earn to the government to squander foolishly either.
Actually it does give the government the power to tax you and spend for the general welfare, so I disagree.
I would also make the point that loaning money to a student for a degree that is unusable is squandering foolishly.
That is true if you exclude income, which is a tax highly abused and the neediest lower middle class citizens suffer because of this. In most cases, people are better off being involved in "general welfare" programs. So we obviously have a lot of work to do. I think a lot of students now would agree with you and regret taking out student loans, but there was a lot of government propaganda that previously urged them to do so (where's the accountability there?). Not that we can expect a 100% success rate from our politicians, but it seems we're now expected minimal productivity for maximum cost. Fail. Big time.
You are entitled to life. You are not entitled to a living. Big difference. You're entitled to the pursuit of happiness. There are people here who are pushing for a six-figure guaranteed basic minimum income for everybody, simply for being alive. There are people here who feel that somebody owes them their dream jobs, simply for graduating from college.
I'm pretty sure the six-figure income idea was just trolling - that's more than even the average income in the U.S.
That idea was just one example, and that particular guy has been pushing that proposal persistently for over a month.
Take a look at some of the conversations on this page for more examples: http://occupywallst.org/forum/do-college-educated-people-deserve-a-high-paying-w/
If you are a former state governor and former head of Goldman Sachs and MF Global, you are entitled to steal $600 Million from your investors' accounts. But if you are TechJunkie, you are entitled to lecture us about something nobody even ever said, while the rest of the John Corzines in this world destroy everything we have. Thanks.
you have the right to pursue life liberty & happiness - it says nothing about it being handed to you by way of being taken from someone else.
Notice how he posted it verbatim and you decided to rephrase it so that "pursuit" comes before all 3??
That's called pissing all over the founding documents and I'd appreciate it if you didn't as us real Americans that believe in these principles tend not to like unpatriotic and anti-American revisionist nonsense.
Thank you.
OK - you have a right to you life, liberty & pursuit of happiness. Where does it say you are entitled for me to pay for your healthcare via a re distributive tax?
"Where does it say you are entitled for me to pay for your healthcare via a re distributive tax?"
Healthcare would fall under "right to life"..
Nobody is asking you to directly pay for another person's healthcare.
Nobody is even asking you to stay in America.
There is a wide variety of failed states where you can live with a seemingly nonexistent social contract. Try Somalia.
right - you are forcing me to pay indirectly to others healthcare. Right to life does not mean the highest level of healthcare. that's a stretch lol! Right to Liberty on the other hand means the right for me to be left alone and not have my productivity confiscated to be redirected to others.
"Right to Liberty on the other hand means the right for me to be left alone and not have my productivity confiscated to be redirected to others."
Has nothing to do with Democracy??
Nevermind, you've proven yourself drunk with ideology once again.
we live in a representative republic not a democracy
Healthcare doesn't fall under the right to life.
By all means, elaborate on exactly what they meant by "right to life".
Anything I want to claim, for myself. A good or a service that might enhance my existence.
That's probably the most moronic definition I could have imagined someone to reply with, but keep going. I'm sure even those with your political leanings are ashamed of the nonsense you've posted.
I will go stand in the corner and put my nose to the wall. I am ashamed.
I don't want you to pay for my healthcare, I want WellsFargo and their cronies to pay for my healthcare with the BILLIONS they should have had to pay and didn't! I am truly sorry an unfair tax burden has been placed on you, the honest person who isn't hiding your wealth in foreign countries and the like to avoid paying your share while Companies raking in BILLIONS get subsidies etc.
Did not Freddie & Fannie guarantee Wells Fargo Loans? what does that mean to you?
It means the system SUCKS DOGGY DOOO! I am not for higher taxes on the people who are already pay a share that unfairly high. I am in fact really ticked at the government for protecting the banks. Where did all those bonuses for CEO's go? I want our government to be tracking down their Swiss Bank Accounts and cleaning them out to recover as much money as possible. Its like giving a bank robber a pat on the back and letting them keep the cash! The tax payers are being told they have to bail out everyone who bought bad paper from these banks. And to make matters worse the Tea Party wants to stop the billionaires from paying taxes, period and they want to deregulate more and more so everybody and their brother can pull this kind of crap. Both parties are crappy, don't be fooled.
Define "fair share" You all mention CEO's bonuses etc. How come you don't mention Hollywood, pro sports & entertainment in general? you are obsessed with Wall Street CEO's
"How come you don't mention Hollywood, pro sports & entertainment in general?"
They didn't collapse the financial system.. Nor did they demand taxpayer bailouts and even use that money to lobby congress further to ensure they don't need to act responsibly in the future and mock the taxpayers further by giving themselves bonuses, despite their failures.
However, I've heard no suggestions that would discount these groups from paying their fair share.
They are 1% though no? So the description of 1% has some caveats to it lol! From what I recall the govt forced TARP on some healthy banks too. The Banks are also repaying TARP successfully with interest. Are you occupying GM also? Freddie & Fannie guaranteed the mortgages didn't they? and TARP is the way they are making good on the guarantee.
Sounds like you're watching too much Fox News. I think John Stossel was the one that portrayed the bailout as the poor little banks trying to escape big government showering them in money.
The fact that you buy this nonsense says alot about you.
Also, Freddie and Fannie wasn't a part of TARP. The government did take control of them, but it was not a part of TARP.
Your profound lack of understanding of what happened and use of Fox News memes tells me all I need to know about you.
banks would not have failed unless mortgage holders did not fail to pay their mortgages first. I didn't say Freddie & Fannie were part of TARP was the govt way of making good on the guarantee for their social engineering experiment. Go see Barney Frank & Chris Dodd. Two Geniuses.
I meant a fair share of taxes, pre-Reagan taxes would be a fine start. Perhaps a tax code that would fit on a single page would eliminate loopholes and confusion.
I actually have a proposal for such a tax. It's called the log tax, and it works surprisingly well. Instead of stairstep brackets, it uses a smooth curve that goes all the way up through the largest orders of magnitude of our economy: R*log(Income/Poverty). R this year would be 8.83 (determined by revenue requirement) which means multiplying your income by 10 adds 8.83 to your tax rate. It's 0% at the poverty level, $11,161, and goes up to 8.83% at $111,610, 17.66% at a million, and so forth. It applies to personal income and corporate profits equally and replaces all federal revenue, including SS and Medicare. It goes up to 58% at the record annual profit, 45 billion - but it turns out to be a big tax cut for just about everybody below $25 million - the average business at half a million would be paying a lower tax than the lowest bracket that exists now. But sharing out the burden in a fair and smooth fashion turns out to work really well.
And it's a tax code that can fit on a bumper sticker!
Keeping this as short as I can, the longer version can be found in my post if you're interested: http://occupywallst.org/forum/simplest-suitably-progressive-tax-rlogincomepovert/
I like it! Anything or anyone making over 25 million should be able to afford it and it leaves plenty of room for small businesses which seem currently over-taxed. Its low enough it could be raise to an even 10 and we could also pay on the debt. The beautiful thing would be if they got rid of all the loopholes and special laws for special people etc to make it work.
Thanks :)
Yeah, it's the perfect fresh slate. Most of our subsidies would no longer be needed at all. If we wanted to keep some anyway, I'd want to handle subsidies separately - you wouldn't have to fill out any subsidy form unless you wanted one, but you would have to have filled out a tax form first.
Adding a trillion, as in paying down a trillion in debt a year, would raise the multiplier by 27% to 11.2. Of course, this year has seen much higher spending than any other. If we go back to spending something like the last few years, around 2.7 trillion a year, then R = 10 would have us paying off our 15 trillion debt in 10 years. That would make the tax 20% on 1 million annual income, about 9 lower than it is now. You'd reach 50% right around 1 billion in annual income or profit.
so everyone pays the same rate? What about Hollywood ? Shouldnt they get the same treatment from OWS as the CEO's?
"so everyone pays the same rate? What about Hollywood ? Shouldnt they get the same treatment from OWS as the CEO's?"
Of,course! Somehow you imagine that people who disagree with you will jump up and defend Hollywood because you have be brainwashed to believe "liberals" love movie stars. Take the puppet strings off your wrists and start talking to real human beings rather than arguing with a figment of your imagination.
You mean libs don't love movie stars? I find that to be disingenuous.
No, everyone did not pay the same rate before Reagan either. You'd have to google what the tax rates where prior to Reagan to get a ballpark estimate of what bracket you'd actually fall into. I'm guessing you actually have a quite modest income and wouldn't be impacted too much. Something needs to be done with the way small business assets are counted though, that can get ridiculous depending on whether or not things are sold on credit. At any rate, millionaires pay more and Billionaires pay even more. And perhaps the brackets would be changed to reflect the inflation of the dollar so don't panic, its just a starting point.
This exact question was actually posed to Obama. It is a fact that when corporate gains taxes are reduced, the government collects more revenue from that tax. Obama said he would rather tax people more than collect more revenue. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpSDBu35K-8
oh - so you are for a more progressive tax code. even though 47% of the people don't pay any federal income tax now. the top 1% pay 20% of the federal tax revenue. the to 10% pay 70% of the federal income tax revenue. Even though doing so wont bring in any more revenue - it;s just to make you feel good that the rich are being punished and paying what you thin is their fair share. I think over 1/3 of ones income going to the Federal income tax is enough.
I think the Founders came up with a right to life by straightforward logic that still applies today: namely, if you deny people the right to life, they're going to stop paying attention to any rule you make. For example, if someone is denied available treatment for disease, they can try to steal the money, and either they succeed, and get the treatment, or fail, and get sent to prison where the treatment is given anyway - at much greater public expense. True, you could reinstitute cruel and unusual punishments - but that only drives up crime even further when people decide they'd rather have a shootout with the cops than risk the courts. There's just no way to maintain civil order without guaranteeing some kind of positive rights to true necessities.
Crime is the unintended consequence of greed.
no one is denying anyone treatment. you need to pay for the service like anything else. If you cant pay cash - you buy insurance just like auto insurance or any other insurance product to hedge against risk. Is auto insurance a right as well?
the poor are denied treatment all the time. they don't have the wealth to access healthcare, and in many cases what healthcare they do get comes at the cost of their home, their employment, and their right to the equitable pursuit of happiness.
the poor get medicaid no? if they are poor how do they own a home?
The poor do not receive Medicaid unless they happen to be pregnant.
Then perhaps they should get a job that provides medical insurance like everyone else has to do. Look - why are poor people poor? The number one factor for living in poverty is being a single parent household. Now how did that happen?
I'm not living in poverty? I am divorced from a businessman who helps me care for our children, one is special needs. I realize plenty of men have the means to support their families and some choose not to. That is simply not the case here. I do not have to be poor to support OWS. You would be just as wrong to think all OWS is black, or Islamic, or Hispanic.
The number one cause of living in poverty is to be in a single parent home. Part of that is unfortunate circumstance & a lot of it is just poor decisions. Why should I have to subsidize other peoples poor decisions. I didn't say anything about race now did I? you brought that up.
1) Not all poor qualify for Medicaid or Medicare, And in then Medicaid and Medicare do NOT cover most medical treatment. 2) they don't "own" homes if they owned, they wouldn't be getting foreclosed on in record numbers.
medicare is for the elderly - medicaid is for the poor. when you say not all poor qualify for medicaid - why wouldn't they qualify? you cant expect to have Cadillac coverage for free now can you? After all the tax payer needs to pay for their own insurance AND the poor's insurance. I don't mind paying for a safety net but I am not going to pay for Cadillac insurance or housing or anything else. A safety net. not an entitlement
1)The poverty line, set by congress, fails to take into account the expense of housing, food, and transport. Thus once these costs are factored in, many working Americans, who the Gov't doesn't deem poor and who therefore don't qualify for Medicaid, and who are left to fend for themselves with no assistance, still cannot afford medical care.
2) Medicaid doesn't cover all procedures. And it doesn't insure universal access to lifesaving treatment/technology for the poor.
Hence - the case to avoid poverty. Can you tell me what the number one factor for winding up in poverty is?
Many people live perfectly well without using cars, so it's not the same sort of necessity. Though it's worth noting that requiring people to buy car insurance before driving already departs from laissez-faire principles...
Health insurance is not a necessity. Being able to pay the bill is. Insurance is a means of doing that. I agree - if people can self insure they should not be required to purchase insurance. If you are on the road and have an accident - you'd better be able to pay the damages if it's your fault. or prepare to have your wages garnished for the rest of your life.
Because it is the people whose backs help you to lead the wasteful, materialistic life you live!
materialistic? it seems to me the OWS and lefties in general are the ones obsessed with what other people have lol!
more to do with corruption and the 1 percent directing the way our country and world is run ... and not by the people, etc. Most people are not obsessed with worldly goods and just want to live a normal simple life. With advertising of buy, buy, buy people were brainwashed and now are waking up.
you say your not obsessed with worldly goods & yet this movement is all about redistributing the wealth of the 1%. Kinda confusing.
This is from the "about" page on this website: Occupy Wall Street is a people-powered movement that began on September 17, 2011 in Liberty Square in Manhattan’s Financial District, and has spread to over 100 cities in the United States and actions in over 1,500 cities globally. #ows is fighting back against the corrosive power of major banks and multinational corporations over the democratic process, and the role of Wall Street in creating an economic collapse that has caused the greatest recession in generations. The movement is inspired by popular uprisings in Egypt and Tunisia, and aims to expose how the richest 1% of people are writing the rules of an unfair global economy that is foreclosing on our future.
All about? Not from my personal view as a 64 year old woman ... possible some but not all.
Which is exactly what the 1% are doing - taking away the ability of the 99% to have any kind of meaningful existence.
how are the 1% taking anything away from you - really!
Control of government through lobbying, political donations, insider trading, etc. Direct government (taxpayer) subsidies to corporations. Low taxes on the 1% reduce federal revenue that must be made up by increased taxes on everyone else. Outsourcing of jobs. Monopolization eliminates competition and dominates markets.
Do you need more?
Low taxes on the top 1% are you kidding? Do you know who actually pays the taxes in this country?
Yes, I do. Do you?
40% all federal revenue comes from FICA (all working citizens, but capped at 106k income, so income of $200k is at 1/2 the effective rate).
Effective tax rate on 400 wealthiest families: 16%.
In 2009 the top 1% paid 36.7% of all federal income taxes while the bottom 50% paid 2.3%.
The top 1% has 43% of all wealth, but only pays 36.7% of federal income tax collected (14.86% of federal revenue).
The bottom 99% - which includes some very wealthy people, income up to $400,000 a year - has 57% of all wealth and pays 63.3% of federal income tax collected (22.8% of federal revenue).
That doesn't take into account FICA. The bottom 99% pays 99% of FICA (39.6% of federal revenue).
In a progressive tax system those with more money are supposed to pay more, not less.
Income tax applies to the money you earn in a given fiscal period. What percent of the wealth they have isn't really relevant. What matters is what percent of all income they earned in the relevant period.
Correction: In a progressive tax system those WHO MAKE more money are supposed to pay more, not less.
Your conjecture has been demonstrated as false. But thanks for bringing up up the idea of a wealth tax. This currently exists in the US as property tax on real estate but should be expanded to include other assets as well in a progressive manner, similar to the way income tax is supposed to work.
I didn't say we don't have a progressive tax system. We clearly do. You stated earlier that since the 1% don't pay enough taxes the rest have to pay more taxes. That's simply untrue.
So for instance in 2009 the top 1% earned 16.9% of all of the adjusted gross income while paying 36.7% of the federal income taxes. The bottom 50% earned 13.5% of all of the adjusted gross income while paying 2.3% of the federal income taxes.
so go talk to the one being influenced by the money - go talk to your congressman.
My congressman isn't mine because he is owned by and subservient to corporate interests and finance. In other words, he is NOT "my" congressman.
Yours isn't either.
then organize the community & vote him out. get your own guy in there etc. Please - too many cop outs here.
All candidates are funded by corporate/financial interests. They are running for their own personal interest and representing those who fund them.
yes but the people have the numbers at the voting booth
I agree we need to occupy the voting booths...public meetings...every angle to make real change possible. There needs to be personal accountability here. If you don't have a job, put 40 hours a week into changing the broken system.
... in which to pick from a slate of pre-approved, corporate funded candidates trumpeted by the corporate media in elections controlled by political appointees and voting machine corporations.
then run your own candidate. as long as we keep falling for the candidate with the most money - we deserve what we get.
You sentence doesn't make sense. What are you trying to say?
Hmmm, "no one owes you anything".... Do you owe the original people's of this ancient land anything, anything at all? Do they have the right to pursue life, liberty, and happiness?
You either owe the Native Americans or you owe G-d for your land. What have you given back to either? Are the rivers running clean for all to "pursue" or do you think you're "owed" the waters that flow through the land.?
I can honestly say that We The People, have created the EPA to do our best to keep the rivers running cleanly. So in that sense, we are desperately trying to give back what we harmed, and paying billions of dollars to do so every year.
As far as the native Americans go, I'm sad that the diseases brought over by the settlers from Europe in the 16th and 17th centuries killed 95% of them. That wasn't my fault and it happened over 300 years ago. Get used to it cause it's over and done.
Actually the Native Americans are creating payback for all those that go to their casinos.
Hee hee!
yes - I am thankful to my creator. I try to leave the world a better place. Provide for my family and not harm others.
So, I'm still interested, do the Native Americans have a right to pursue life, liberty, justice, etc?
Sure - they can pursue it .
But what, they can only have it if they conquer and kill you?
Then I hope you are educated on just how destructive your current economic system is to Creation. How do you reconcile that?
destructive how?
You just lost your credibility. If you're not aware of the destructiveness of the Industrial Age (you know, the one with cars and factories), then you are really out-of-touch.
I am aware of the tremendous increase in the standard of living over the last 200 years. I guess I see the glass as half full rather than completely empty as you do lol!
Not for the Natives. Is that a glass half-full?
hey - if your going to obsess over native Americans your beyond help. Yes - the glass is completely full actually !
how much do they pay you to troll this site?
I had to read what your little mind had to say...I read it.
you are the genius - educate me
no need you got all the answers...its you who is the genius.
Nobody gave me a living at all. I have a job that I go to every day, and a nice place to go home to at the end of the day. And I'm thankful for it and I don't normally complain much. But when international corporations post record profits while people loose their jobs and their house, I feel for them (since I'm human), and I can't justify just sitting around and doing the same old thing I normally do, just because it's their problem and not mine.
People like this just don't get it. They can't come up with a decent counter argument, and instead call us hippies, or liberals, or say we live in our parents basement. You have no idea what you're talking about "lol".
To put it quite simply, I do not wish for my tax dollars to be redistributed among the wealthy.
If America had done it the honest and fair way of people working together for the common good for everyone and we still ended up broke as a nation, this movement would not be necessary since everyone did their best for th well being of all,
This of course, is not the case and that is why we are all angry and disgusted with our system who is greedy and selfish beyond reasoning.
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nobody owes a troll anything other than a billboard answer. But i'm billboarding so i might as well answer. I'm occupying the human evolutionary bellcurves forefront for my whole life while you occupy the other end of the bellcurve as a throwback.
Maybe this was never about anyone saying they are owed jobs; but instead about how a corporate oligarchy con scam caste war has been perpetuated against the middle class and poor.
You'd LIKE it to be as simple as your straw man argument. But your straw man arguments actual complexity proves you to be a fucking moron.
Guess whos probably living in their parents basement?
Funny how trolls accidentally confess because they are too dumb to think up things that aren't what they are having a guilty conscience over.
Agreed. so. now what. The least useful aspect of the whole thing is that its non violent. this does not help the agenda at all.
Its also orders of magnitude larger and bigger than it was supposed to be and growing at an exponential rate.
What perhaps you may fail to understand at first is that there has been a dam. Holding back. The waters of the light of truth. Crack. Snapple. Pop. 200 years of lies. 200 years of propaganda. 200 years of science creeping on while the elites tried to freeze the knowledge of the proles in 1800. 200 years of sociology knowledge. 200 years of education reform science. 200 years of oil and coal while all the whole while we could have had geothermal.
Crack. snapple. Crack. Crickkettyy pop. snapple Crack.
How long could the lies hold up? how long could they keep the proles ignorant and wholly self destructive?
How long could they prevent a genuine consensus process?
Corporate Oligarchy is a Dead Horse walking. It looks alive, but it actually died in 2000 with the Election of Bush. Assorted fatal systemic errors are killing it, and without a vital solution for a new and dynamic evolutionary revolution, all of humanity, including the elites, would die.
they need this revolution just as much as the rest of us.
And there is nothing they can do now to stop it, their only power is to try to censor it, control it, co-opt it, and fail, until we elect them out of office and then take back our government.
"Beasts of burden"? lol. Yes, the Collosophant. Carrying civilization forward on our shoulders while they the mere parasites lives off and on us.
It was a handy arrangement for them, but we could have crushed them at any time at our whim, and they have failed to realize this. The police in Oakland are realizing this. 50 mounted horses are just riot targets. Beat enough people up in front of a crowd of ten thousand, and it could just get a lot uglier than any fight they want to pick. WE THE PEOPLE are WAKING UP. And we are mad as hell, and we are not going to take it any more.
Snap. crack. krick. pop. 200 years of evil control. 200 years of dumble down. stretching. Creaking. splintering. When it breaks there will be no safe place for any oligarch to hide. their trillions of dollars will not buy them the elections any more and their lies will be known to the public and they will live in shame, and most of them will end up in federal prison.
When the bough breaks, the cradle will rock...
humpty dumpty...
a thousand metaphors and narratives. I'm glib today, actually, and reminded of this song, in 1776.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1213z9KHNs
someone has a lot of time on their hands - look at this rnt lol!
feel my power.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPR3GlpQQJA
I have been active here since the very beginning, and since the very beginning I have been trying to make some core points. These points clearly have not been digested or fully understood by the mob, and so I'm going to try to make a further attempt here again.
For these reasons, I beg of you to please immediately join me on the wiki. We need to have all of these details and all of these ideas put together in an organized fashion, rather than posted in a long scrawl which will never be read.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/THE_99%25_POLITICAL_PARTY
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ
http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw
http://www.opensecrets.org/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/our-new-wiki/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/
if nobody owes me a living then why should I pay for any government that seeks to prevent me from obtaining a living?
you shouldn't have to pay the government any more than it takes to carry out their legitimate constitutional responsiibilites. Defense, Courts of law, defend the border. everything else is for the States. As you can see the feds already have completely obliterated the Constitution for thew past 80 years.
You are correct but Medicare and Social Secuirty should never be borrowed from our government under any circumstances. We would have plenty of money in those funds if they had left it alone.
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Jobs are becoming obsolete due to advances in technology. This should be a key issue with the OWS movement.
Check these links out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0Z8TR4ToNs
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wired-success/201109/are-jobs-we-know-them-becoming-obsolete
http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/09/07/rushkoff.jobs.obsolete/
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/24/technology/economists-see-more-jobs-for-machines-not-people.html?_r=1
There is a difference between a "Right" and an "Entitlement".
A right is something that you are born with. The right to free speech. The right to go purchase and bear arms. The right to non-self incrimination. The right to not be searched or have things seized without a warrant. These are "Rights".
You are not born with a job. You are born with the opportunity to pursue a job. You are not born with the right to catch that job, merely to pursue it.
The Constitution also give the government the power to tax you and spend for the General Welfare and Defense of the country. The benefits you receive for the General Welfare are "Entitlements". Because these were created by the government, they can be taken away by the government.
To my knowledge, bailing out a bunch students who made bad college degree decisions isn't an existing entitlement. The only thing students would learn from that is that bad decisions go unpunished, and that's not how the world works.
Yes they dose they e keepin me down cause i be black they owes me we gots not ecom=nomic oppertunity nones you white [peeps ows us time you paids up
Or perhaps you don't know what this is about and put your keen intellect to this and came to the wrong conclusion.... Serious Black
Next...
Who are the 1%? The best numbers I found are as follows. The IRS tells us that 250M income a year makes it to the lower end of 1%. Further, the wealth management sector business claims that 2.75 net worth makes the 1%. Hardly rich only comfortable. I only learned these figures after all the OWS fuss. I suspect that many of you or your families are the 1% and if not you might want to spent more time trying to be the 1% BECAUSE IT IS ACHIEVABLE. Next time you see the dentist, accountant, doctor, dry cleaner or shrink tell them how you feel about their station in life. Also give your parents hell and refuse your inheritance.
Who are the 1%? The best numbers I found are as follows. The IRS tells us that 250M income a year makes it to the lower end of 1%. Further, the wealth management sector business claims that 2.75 net worth makes the 1%. Hardly rich only comfortable. I only learned these figures after all the OWS fuss. I suspect that many of you or your families are the 1% and if not you might want to spent more time trying to be the 1% BECAUSE IT IS ACHIEVABLE. Next time you see the dentist, accountant, doctor, dry cleaner or shrink tell them how you feel about their station in life. Also give your parents hell and refuse your inheritance.
the one percent is income above $347,000.00 per year.
Look at these CEO Salaries
CEO and board member salaries for NON-PROFIT Banner Health in Arizona --- WOW
Peter Fine, an American dream comes true. Peter, a former New York taxi cab driver, has made it big in the health care industry. Now making
$1,300.00 an HOUR managing his NON-PROFIT health care corporation, Peter can easily buy a new car for CASH after working only 12 hours. An
American dream comes true! How do your wages compare?
Ronald Bunnell, another American dream come true. Bunnell was an auditor for the accounting and consulting firm of Peat Marwick and Mitchell
for two years and now makes $880.00 an HOUR in the NON-PROFIT health care industry. After working only an hour he can pay his monthly grocery
bill. Ronald's wages are probably closer to yours.
Susan Edwards, may hold the record for a woman working in NON-PROFIT health care endeavors, making over $1,600.00 per hour. She can pay the
average house payment by working only 42 minutes, not much more than a coffee break. Susan is advancing her career, currently with NON-PROFIT
ProHealth Care a Wisconsin. How are you doing on your house payments?
All data is based on compensation figures that are public information. Internal Revenue Service, tax year 2009, DLN# 93493316013240, Employer ID
45-0233470. 40 hrs/wk 50 wks/yr 2 weeks paid vacation. Current wages may be up to 20% greater. Travel expenses and other benefits are not
included.
Web Archive, Twitter and Face Book short URL's:
qr.net/SHFN
bit.ly/nMbqck
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I dont see any hollywood people on this list actors producers etc. No pro sports figures either. Michael Moore not here either?
I was working and investing that money, paying for my state school tuition after working my way through community college. My job was outsourced, my investments then were rendered worthless in 2008. With an associates degree I've tried to find employment that uses my training but have had no luck for the past 3 years. Now I can't afford to continue college. Thankfully I can get by doing odd programming and pc repair jobs and not loose my mortgage. I don't know how long that will last. Not looking for a hand out; just a hand up. Never used financial aid, unemployment, etc. Just the hope that NC will enforce Section 9 article 9 of the state constitution.
There are lots of freelance outsourcing sites. I worked them for a while. They only pay about $12 per hour to start but you can work them 10 hours a day, 7 days a week. If the company you end up working for likes you, you can negotiate higher! Many companies use these sites to filter out the crappy programmers from the good ones without having to hire and fire lots of people.
Try http://www.freelancer.com
Good luck!
how about waiting tables?
And secondly...for the naysayers of the movement...all is fine and dandy until you are the one suddenly without a job and three kids to feed. Stop thinking only of yourself and your circumstances and love your fellow man. Open your eyes and WAKE UP! Hypocrisy will be the downfall of this society. Peace.
But is it a right for the extremely wealthy to avoid paying taxes and instead handing the burden to the very same workers they let go? hmm.. perhaps acquire a bit of perspective..
the extremely wealthy (above 347K is the top 1%) contribute 20% to what the feds collect in income tax. The bottom 50% contribute 3%. Thats not enough I take it?
The top 1% pay 37% of all taxes actually.
Certainly, no one owes me a living. But, as I am expected to EARN a living, I expect the means to earn that living to exist. I'm considered fortunate to be employed, but that's really the point. I should not be among the "fortunate ones" just because I have a job. There's enough things that need doing that everyone can be employed, and jobs still go unfilled. The trouble with capitalism is that, only the things that "pay" (huge profits to the 1%) get done. Thus, it is like a $1400.00 suit, that conceals worn, dirty underwer.
pointless comment
That's all you got?
True Nobody Owes anyone a Living. Also, Nobody should be allowed to steal another's future and not be held accountable.
Then who owes us a death?
Nobody owes you slave labor.
who's a slave?
Anyone working full time who cannot afford decent housing, nutritious food, and access to healthcare and education. And yes, we may manage to access healthcare and education, though quite often lifelong debt is incurred so, in that case, it's called indentured servitude.
and who's fault is that?
A merciless system. one that hasn't worked through its inherent contradictions.
the only system that that for the ordinary man - has raised the standard of living higher than anything else.
A standard of living that is becoming increasingly difficult to maintain, especially for all those unable to break out of the temp labor market and obtain regular, full-time employment. These are not all unskilled workers either. Skilled laborers, former managers, and college-educated people cannot find decent employment. And, a flat-screen TV, cell phone, etc. does not necessarily suggest a high standard of living.
so if I bag groceries 40 hours a week I should have all those things? Education? State University system in every State. Cheap tuition & you may even qualify for student aid. if not there are student loans. There are lots very affordable trade schools. Give me a break. And your not getting the same healthcare as me for bagging groceries. up your skill set and get a job with benefits.
I agree with individual responsibility and encourage anyone's drive to enhance their viability. Problem is... that takes $$$ So, unless you were born into $$$ You're wrong if you believe that this is some kind of "I don't want to work" crowd (this goes back to the early-twentieth century). Problem is, we do work, provide necessary skills and labor, for next-to-nothing, and next-to-nothing will soon be nothing until wages catch up with cost-of-living expenses, Wall Street stops hoarding money, and Washington stops committing our troops (and expensive military contractors) to wars that the American people do not want and cannot afford.
No - it doesn't take money. it takes ambition. I bartended my way through college, worked construction jobs, paid cash for my State University education & now I work at a bank for the last 18 years. Not to difficult. Never took a dime in financial aid etc.
Congratulations, that was a different time, though. The successes you achieved are becoming more and more difficult to obtain. The market is becoming more impossible, that's all. Tuition has been sky-rocketing, cost of living, etc. Wonder if you could pull off that feat with the same relative ease these days.
Yup, back then minimum wage was $4/hour and community college was $75/credit hour.
Now, minimum wage is $8/hour and community college is $150/credit hour.
What a different time we live in.
and tuition is sky rocketing bc govt backing of student loans and handing them out like candy.
State tuition is still very reasonable. The problem is - kids today think they are entitled to a fancy private school education majoring in art history & then complain when they cant get a decent paying job & have a big loan to repay! Please - the same path to success applies today. It's timeless. I am not that old lol!
The problem is that we're losing what matters and chasing $$$. Sorry, America has become so cheapened in this regard. We're a bunch of illiterate, cultureless, Applebee-eating drones. Guess that's what we've been after all along here, militarism and mediocrity.
But it's voluntary indentured servitude. The constitution only prohibits "involuntary indentured servitude". Otherwise, that would abridge your right to contract and free trade. Capitalism is at the heart of the Constitution.
A person, in the United States is not Constitutionally entitled to a job, a person is not Constitutionally entitled to be rich or ultra rich, either. The Government may tax from any source, so says the US Constitution. So, yes, nobody owes you or me, a particular disposable income or set amount of wealth. Nobody owes you a living, Figero, correct. There is no reason not to tax the rich and the ultra rich, since they are not owed a living. Since no one is owed anything, there is no difference. Let the rich and the ultra rich pay more in taxes. If the ultra rich don't want to pay, let the rich. I don't need a fleet in the Pacific or to bail out banks, the rich need too have these things. After all, you pointed out, nobody owes anyone a living.
I am free to make as much money as I want. If the government wants to tax me at a rate I consider unfair, I'll just stop working so hard, earn less money, hire fewer workers and the govt will get less revenue. Maybe I'll even open up shop over seas. Have it your way.
That is a great idea. You should open your shop, overseas. I may actually open a shop in Canada, just because the USA will not create jobs for me or my friends and I am tired of small business owners being stepped on, in the USA, tax wise, so Paris Hilton can live like a spoilt whore. In Canada, I could eventually get a medical degree or another useful degree, even if I have to live like an animal, running a small shop or even a few pathetic Kiosk carts, for a while.This country has unreasonable expectations of me, asking me to give up my financial future, to be cheap labor for whores and trust fund low lifes, so the ultra rich can live like Tzars.
Nonsense! If this country does not take career creation and small business owners seriously, it is time to leave, Amen. All highly educated and highly skilled Americans, unable to get appropriate professional careers or unable to keep their small businesses running here, should leave for other countries; countries with a commitment to a high standard of living, if they can get into these countries. Russians and Chinese would get out of Russia or China, if they were told to take working class jobs, with professional degrees, in five seconds flat. No Russian Jew, certainly not my Russian Jewish relatives, would put up with that bullsh-t, that is why they left the Soviet Union. You can't blame my relatives and if you are paying for the ultra rich to make money off of sending jobs to India, then you should relocate, make a better living, then you should and the hell with this sick-o country.
No one gets an education so they can work along side the uneducated or to just take any job. Let us just brain drain the USA, just like Africans brain drained Africa. Why should an African, with a PhD, dig ditches? Why should I dig ditches? I would have dropped out of pre-school, if I wanted to do that with my life; no kidding. Why should I subsidize the ultra rich, spoilt lifestyle, in the USA? If this country does not create high paying careers, for guys and gals like me and this country makes it impossible to run a small business, than the hell with this country. Let Paris Hilton dig a ditch or work as a waitress. I can be poor anywhere, I do not need the USA for that, anymore than my relatives needed the Soviet Union, for that.
Paris Hilton worked on a farm in Arkansas for a while. Get your facts straight. ;)
True, I hate to admit it, but the woman worked some lousy jobs, like in this one movie, on the Internet, with this guy....=)
yup - the 1% are leaving in droves. Just ask Steve Wynn. The U.S. is a hostile environment for business.
It is hostile to workers, hostile to business owners and only friendly to trust fund babies and I-Banks. We cannot live like this, not you, not me, not anyone, unless you are a trust fund baby and you don't sound like one or think like one. It sucks, for all of us, to live in a society geared toward the ultra rich, where a man or woman can not even hold on to an upper middle class or rich lifestyle and for what? So the ultra rich can have more wealth and income, so we can be like the Russian Federation? It is so true. Rather than tax the ultra rich, the US Government borrows money from the ultra rich, rationing out business investment in the USA, then the US Government puts that money into wars and Nation building abroad, while getting rid of Government jobs, not investing in infrastructure and not investing in new commercial enterprises.
Private industry has no incentive to compete with the US Government in debt securities or to create jobs. The Government knows this and still the Government would rather prepare to invade Iran, than worry about the US. The ultra rich put all their money in Government debt securities, gold and foreign markets and the US Government sits back and instead of taxing the blood suckers, so that we can reduce the cost of capital, for entrepreneurs and reduce the tax burden for the middle class an rich, the Governemnt talks about shared sacrifice and taxing the rich; a class actually making a living off of occupational income, unlike the ultra rich. The ultra rich don't even need their occupational income to maintain their standard of living and why not tax their making money off of their money, otherwise we need to borrow money, to pay for wars and everything else? We are screwing business owners and potential entrepreneurs, so that the ultra rich can have more wealth? This country is a fun house for batsh-t anti- business and anti worker trust fund baby insanity. The US Government and Corporate America need to take their meds...
I've been searching, and I can't find that line in The Bible - could you remind me where it is please?
can't tell if trolling or just very stupid
@ 'theman' ... If you're talking about 'figero' .. 2nd time right . ;-)
nope, talking about the person i replied to
assuming you weren't talking to yourself, so ... ~~~* ;-)
I don't really want to talk to you, i want to see if krankie is goofin off or is just stupid
Oh .. It's A Bible Thing ... Dohh ! Ooops !! Sorry !!! :(
i seriously want to know if krankie doesn't know that that quote came out of the Constitution and/or he doesn't know the Bible that well
Go preach this line of bull to the bank CEO's that screwed up, then came running to the tax payer for a few trillion bailout. And are doing the same damn thing again, only it's 75 trillion this time.
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what about the banks that had TARP forced on them like JPM?
didn't fannie & freddie guarantee the mortgages? what do you think TARP is but making good on the guarantee. why is the govt in the business of making banks lower their lending standards so everyone can own a home?
I keep think about that debt the banks expect us to pay
no one owes them a living
My boss owes me what we agreed to as salary, we owe for whatever merchandise we want to take out of a store, the banks are only owed what borrowers agreed to pay. These are agreements we enter into, a form of trade or barter. I'm not owed anything if I'm unwilling to do anything in return.
no one owes the bankers a living
You owe what you promise to pay, what's the big deal with that? You might keep your word you might choose not to or be unable to, but if you make a deal you do have an obligation. Bankers and corporations are guilty of greed, if we take, then back out of the deal we're guilty of greed too, it's only a difference in scale.
Have you looked at college tuition these days, it has increased so much that it is hard for any High School graduate to think hard about going to college even if they get a loan which will be alot by the time they graduate. The job market is changing so radically that it is a gamble if a job will be available to that person.
Yes I've looked. It's a risk these days to go on to college. Some kids make it harder to find a job with a poor choice of major, some guess wrong and find their field full when they graduate. Maybe we can change the way taxes are collected and make state universities free. Until then each student has to make a decision, work, save, borrow, or some combination. To take money, sign an agreement to pay it back, then renege is simply wrong. We're complaining about bailing out banks and corporations, but when it's personal suddenly the immorality of a bailout is ignored.
Choosing a degree that will not produce employment in the current environment we live in is rather foolish but do we know which degree is being reneged on by not paying it? The media cannot be trusted with providing accurate information, that is a fact.
Education has it's own reward, it doesn't need to be obtained in just 4 years and in an ideal world would be obtained for its own sake. If you want a degree to secure employment however you need to research what employers are looking for. There are many lists and articles written about what business is looking for. You may not trust the media completely, but the articles on trends in business can't all be designed to mislead people. Sometimes business itself offers a path. The hospital in the city where I worked offered to put people through nursing school if they agreed to work for them for a certain number of years. Perfect solution for many, free education in a much needed skill. The commitment wasn't for a very long time period either. Unfortunately kids often take the easiest path through school and are left with unmarketable skills when they finally graduate.
The student loans are a separate problem. The federal government is in charge of the student loan program. You enter into a contract with them when you get the loan. Should the government act more like a parent and tell you what you may and may not major in with their money? I suppose if that were the case you would have a better argument for walking away from the responsibility to pay the loan back. If the government forced yo into a degree program you could claim it was their fault. Students choose art history or comparative religions and not marketing or business management on their own though.
these contracts are not scaled to task
Doesn't matter, no one forces you to enter into a loan agreement. People entering into loan agreements they couldn't afford is one of the causes of the housing collapse. There were choices several, rent, get a loan you could afford, act irresponsibly. If people chose the last one they have to accept the consequence.
no one makes a rat eat the cheese on the wire hook end of a spring trap
True, it's the lure of getting something too easily or thinking you're getting it for nothing. Banks got greedy and Steagall-Glass never should have been repealed, but the borrowers bear some responsibility too. Pay or walk away, that is the deal with a mortgage and it's not a secret.
If you borrowed money from them you do!
what if one can't pay back
then you get foreclosed on. didn't you read the contract?
I needed a place to live at the time
I hoped my wealth would improve but it didn't
so - I should bail you out. remember - the reason the banks failed is because mortgage holders failed first !
me first
despite not being able to pay
I am still broke
Bankruptcy laws. The government doesn't allow student loans to be claimed in bankruptcy, however, and that needs changing.
income is the primary problem
no one is making the income they expected when they took the loans
who's fault is that? Real Estate is speculation just like anything else. The bank loaned you money because you agreed to pay it back with interest. The house is collateral in the event you default. What is so complicated to understand here?
I think there is a consensus delusional reality between both contractors
although one would expect the banker to know better
after all, the banks have been given federal trust
and the govt social engineering plan to have everyone own a home led to loose lending standards. go talk to Barney Frank about it. The bottom line is - people signed contracts & failed to honor them period
contracts shouldn't be built to fail
Actually, banks running Greece sound like a very bad plan
who signed the contract promising to repay ?
both
If someones income is insufficient to cover the debts incurred, bankruptcy may be an option, or working with lenders to restructure the debt. The student loan servicers allow tremendously generous forebearances. The worst thing is to ignore the creditors. They'll put the wood to you pretty hard if you just ignore them.
my concern is not the loan but rather the depleted expected standard of living
why US citizens are angry
Anger often comes from the sale of a phony bill of goods. When I went to college 40 years ago, tuition was at a fair price. I paid my loans back in three years, as did my wife. Today people have taken out massive debt, to fund education, and it amounts to a giant mortgage, that could take a lifetime to pay off. Things are definitely out of wack. The sad thing to me is the stupidity of people who took on this debt. I just think it sloppy thinking to assume so many loans and not think of the consequences, not only for the student, but also the lender. The result is a real shit pile. Both my sons have taken out small loans, but are mostly working, and paying as they go. Neither one of them could see taking on massive debt for an education that could not guarantee a job at the end. Unfortunately, many of their friends have debt for education in the 60-110,000 dollar range.
people were expecting to make that amount in a year
Pretty ridiculous expectation.
I remember professionals getting salaries of 40 or 60 thousand in the 80s
Yeh, but not to start at fresh out of college.
I agree - TARP is a problem with moral hazard. I believe the banks are paying TARP back with interest no? Then again - Doesn't the Government guarantee mortgages via Freddie & Fannie? is not TARP making good on that guarantee? Did not the govt force banks to loosen lending standards so everyone can own a home? Who's the problem here? Does Barney Frank have any responsibility here? How about Chris Dodd?
Are you sure you work for a bank? Please cite the law which says banks MUST lend to unqualified home buyers? There have been laws on the books for 20+ years that removed discriminatory practices (redlining) in home lending and laws that provide incentives for first time home buyers. But there is no law that told banks they have to lend to all low-income buyers and certainly no law approving robo-signing of mortgages for buyers that had no income or assets (or worse, who didn't even exist). They engaged in this practice because they were making a killing trading in collateralized debt and default swaps. No one twisted the banks' arm. The market for qualified home mortgages was near tapped out so they decided to make money off of a new pool of subprime borrowers. The government could have stopped this through regulation (or reinstituting regulation that was already on the books in 1999) but the government did not "force" the banks into engaging in unethical and fraudulent activity ultimately crashing the economy.
look up community reinvestment act. No one helda gun to a borrowers head either. You sign a contract prepare to live up to your obligation.
The community reinvestment act was passed in 1977. Here is a graph of subprime mortgages between 1997 and 2007.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Home_Ownership_and_Subprime_Origination_Share.png
The repeal of Glass-steagal which deregulated mortgage backed securities happened in 1999. See the bump in rates of subprime lending after 1999? The banks lobbied heavily for the repeal of Glass Steagal.
As I said, government could have stepped in sooner but they didn't. However the community reinvestment act did not cause that spike in subprime mortgages you see in the chart.
Furthermore, while subprime borrowers lost their homes, bank CEOs and traders socked away billions in offshore accounts during the subprime frenzy and crash. I guess the winner doesn't really have to worry about personal responsibility as long as they get the spoils.
I agree with the Glass Steagall thing. should not have been repealed. Again, who did the repealing? Govt has the last word.
oh, elll oh ellll y0u are so profound I will defiantly take ur advise o wise wun
advise isshoooed frum ur parentz basement no doubt
Not everyone here wants a free ride. Although admittedly some do. What others are asking for is the end in the table sloping towards a few interests at the detriment of others. Do you know how difficult it is to start a business theses days? Almost all my ancestors were self-employed. Today, most of their descendants are employed and wouldn't be able to make a living from their own business.
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and why do you think it's so hard to start a business?
I can't say for the US, but in the UK:
But most of all - a debt based economy.
exactly - so what's your solution?
housing is dirt cheap in the U.S. now. after the crash - you don't hear people complaining about high housing prices. The problem is having a good job, a good down payment & good credit. If you have those things you are ok .
I could be wrong, but I still would have thought it would have been cheaper to buy land or property in the US say 80 years ago. Correct me if you know otherwise.
Certainly housing in the US is cheap from what I have seen - plenty of houses in the $10-40K bracket. In the UK the cheapest you can get a house that doesn't require doing up is $70K and that is for bargain basement homes in bad neighbourhoods.
you cant expect housing prices to be the same as 80 years ago unless you expect wages & all other prices to be the same as 80 years ago as well no?
No. As mentioned, more people = more demand for housing = higher prices. In a country like the UK where there is less than 1 acre per person, housing is obviously going to go through the roof.
This is something that is causing a decreasing standard of living that the "1%" aren't responsible for.
the one percent recognize you have to keep up with the times. Constantly increasing your marketable skills. the 99% think you can bag groceries and raise a family & have a nice comfortable life.
you might consider that the 99% see competition and keeping up their "marketable skills" as a fool's errand when in spite of all the world's resources their basic needs aren't met, though they work day in and day out, and instead all that wealth goes to those who are good at screwing them. Get a clue
well - if you increase your skills. say from being a book keeper to say a CPA - you will earn more money. I don't see what everyone is griping about. Instead of majoring in art history major in engineering. people need to train for where the jobs are. become an auto mechanic and make 100K a year! Life isn't that complicated.
I heard the other day that a bunch of McDonald's applications were thrown on the occupiers by some "employed" people. Why don't you, and other people who feel like you, go work at McDonald's and give your jobs to the occupiers? LOL! To greedy for that, I imagine.
born to hunt...forced to work....HUELGA!!!!!!..................142
Nobody owes you a living, just go out and steal it, like Wall Street guys do! Don't sit there protesting, go out and steal stuff, that's how guys like John Corzine, former Governor of New Jersey, makes a living --- he steals $600 Million of investors' money. I mean, what's wrong with you people - c'mon, START STEALING - BECAUSE GOD KNOWS NOBODY OWES YOU A LIVING!
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I'd like to adjust this a little. I prefer "Everyone owes Everything to Everyone."
not
It's NOT a question of anyone 'owing anyone a living' numb-nuts ... it much more a question of resisting the means to a living being STOLEN from The 99% by a tiny, unconscionably greedy few who in actuality comprise way, way less than 1% of the worlds population !!
Go 'figero' you graceless half-wit and see if you can get your head round the real issues ...
spero meliora.
how are the 1% stealing from us?
Read : http://occupywallst.org/forum/love-of-money-is-the-root-of-the-greatest-evil/ and go get your head extracted from your (x) !! Dolt !
typical response. just throw a link at me instead of explaining in your own words. probably because it's to difficult for you to make it sound sensible.
They are my own words but IF you really insist on being spoon fed, then here goes :
The way 'Democratic Governments' have been co-opted, infiltrated & usurped by 'The Banksters' is The Tragedy of our Times & the levels of Larcenous Criminality prevalent in the 'High-Finance and Low Morals but NO Ethics' world of Wall $t. (& the <1%) are simply beyond the appreciation, belief & credulity of the average ethically balanced person (99%). In the U$A in particular, The co-option of 'The Demoblicans & Republocrats' has led to a demoCRAZY deMOCKERYcy.
What has been going on these last 30-40 years throughout 'Investment & Merchant Banking' is so outside the realms of rhyme or reason, that the word 'Greed' can NOT possibly do it any justice. The layer-cake of avarice, corruption & kleptomaniacal theft is so breathtaking as to lead one to think that there must be some virulent viral vector to the extreme group-psychopathology that seems to pervade The Banksters, worldwide. That lunatic misanthrope Ayn Rand has so much to answer for & though the monster lies a-mouldering in her grave, I still curse her through space & time !!
Furthermore, 'The Credit Rating Agencies' have proved to be a bunch of MOODY FITCHers whose STANDARDs are POOR ! Are these the same mendacious arsewipes (& private commercial businesses - to boot !) who just three short years ago facilitated the Larcenous Transfer of "money" (what ever THAT is, these days!) FROM "the Public & their allegedly democratic governments" TO Private Banksters ?!!
The self-evidently 'Poor Standards' of the CRA's were responsible for "AAA+ rating" : 'DOG-SH!T Derivatives' such as 'Mortgage Backed (in)Securities' ; 'Collateralised Debt Obligations' ; 'Credit Default Swaps' & other such 'Innovative Financial Products' - all of which turned out to be just new words & ways to sell debt (& boy, WHAT A CONcept that is !!).
A relatively tiny but unconscionably greedy & power-hungry few have us entrapped in their Mesmeric Mythical-Money Matrix, as all righteously earned & received Profits, Salaries & Wages (ie Earned Incomes) are stringently & exorbitantly taxed, whereas Monies & Capital Gains in the form of Interest, Dividends, Rent, Debentures, Accruals, Commissions (ie Wealth & "Rentier" Returns) are taxed far less onerously & are much more easily "avoided or evaded".
The Privatising of Profit, Gain & Opportunity and the Simultaneous Socialisation & Nationalisation of Loss, Cost & Risk ; The Duplicity of Double-Entry Book-Keeping ; The Tyranny of Accountants & The Despotism of Private Bankers - should be beyond the endurance & tolerance of most fair minded & right thinking people.
Either meekly accept The Usurpation & 'Mutation Under Duress' of DEMOCRACY into 'demoCRAZY deMOCKERYcy' & de facto Fascism ... or reclaim your Dignity, Liberty, Prosperity & indeed Sanity !
fiat justitia ruat caelum ...
That looks like one big cussout. Changing words so that they sound and look different makes no difference in the argument.
If people will stop taking loans, then we won't have this problem.
This has not inhibited my life. I still work. I have a job. I sleep in my house. It is paid for, same as my vehicles. Is it a mansion and do I drive the newest cars, no.
And how is this inhibiting your life so directly that you feel you must sleep in a public park lol! ? Your parents really messed you up man lol!
"Laugh It Fuzzball" but unlike yours, at least my mother knows who my father is ...
Your initial idiot question to me was "how are the 1% stealing from us ?", which when answered you are unable to deconstruct or even offer the most cursory reply.
Stop Parading Your Intellectual Limitations Here ...
You Troglodyte ..
ad iudicium .
lol ! Meanwhile I'm in a nice warm house and you are sleeping in a rat infested park. Good night lol!
You seem to do a lot of 'loling', didn't your mummy teach you to sit up straight ?!
Did your 'mom' teach you anything at all ?!!
Did you even know your real mother ?!!!
Dolt ...
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/
Crass disagrees with you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om8dak03cQc
pointless -no wonder you're a mess
Pointless? No way, Crass is wicked!
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how about free auto insurance?
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right - so don't tell me how to live. don't tell me I have to pay for your health insurance
you already are paying for other's healthcare in the form of higher prices. the health insurance market is broken because of a lack of regulation (bad behavior on the part of companies) and needs to be fixed so that everyone pays their fair share of society's healthcare costs. the very thing you're so afraid of, paying for other's healthcare, is exactly what you're doing right now under the current system. you obviously don't know a thing about this issue other than what you heard from corporate sponsored Fox commentary. We all can be told how to live if the way we are living is violating others' rights.
too much regulation got us to where we are now !
no, it didn't. it got you clean air, water, children spared hard labor and the preservation of your rights, moron.
ok - whatever you say. Interesting how healthcare costs skyrocketed only after govt got involved. Medicare costs are 600% what the estimates were at inception 30 years out. Please - do your homework.
the fact that estimates made 30 years ago were inaccurate are part of your argument tells me all i need to know. it doesn't possibly occur to a simpleton such as you that a 600% forecasting error over 30 years might be perfectly acceptable all things considered.
So why make the estimate in the first place? If the politicians at the time are going to use a figure to promote their agenda, and it turns out to be way off, shouldn't we learn from that for the next time?
experts make estimates to sell shit, moron. you're a fool for even giving a 30 year social forecast an ounce of creedance.
go ask LBJ and Co. in 1965 - savior of humanity - great society hahaha!
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