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Forum Post: [DELETED]

Posted 6 months ago on May 10, 2014, 2:58 p.m. EST by anonymous ()
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72 Comments

72 Comments


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[-] 3 points by perspicacious (17) 3 months ago

We need to be working on creating a functional welfare state to balance the robotic revolution.

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[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1777) 3 months ago

no

a state where work is a means to provide for the people

[-] 0 points by wickerman (62) 3 months ago

For the people who don't work? That is a welfare state. Sorry, I am not willing to share the fruits of my labor with those who refuse to work themselves.

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1777) 3 months ago

fruit grows from the sun helius

[-] 1 points by wickerman (62) 3 months ago

Someone has to plant it prune it and pick it.

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1777) 3 months ago

I'll take that land thanks

[-] 0 points by wickerman (62) 3 months ago

You come for mine you'll be buried in it. You and any one else. I love how folks like you always want something for nothing. I have something for you, and I'll give it to for free, at 2300 fps.

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1777) 3 months ago

your labor will no longer be needed

thank you

[-] 0 points by wickerman (62) 3 months ago

Come and take you lazy derelict. I'm waiting for you.

[-] 0 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 3 months ago

WM... Matt... in all his abstractions.... is speaking of a Capitalistic, free enterprise and competitive economic system based on the creation of Social Wealth ... the next industry

[-] 0 points by wickerman (62) 3 months ago

That's not what it sounds like. I offered to help Mat get to somewhere to find a job, I see that he hasn't bit. Mat doesn't want a job, he wants what someone else has handed to him free of charge.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 3 months ago

are you sure about that ? .... maybe Matt, ... like MOST of us are trying to look out for those that need...

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[-] 3 points by factsrfun (5952) from Phoenix, AZ 6 months ago

OWS is about raising concern about wealth inequality, the GOP work to make the rich, richer if you don't know that you should read a bit.

Untill we remove all GOP from office the rest is window dressing.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 months ago

how about an open forum for congress

so laws become accessible to anyone ?

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (5952) from Phoenix, AZ 6 months ago

300 million is a lot of "anyone" I think getting money out of politics would do a great deal to make things better, if there is a great transition in the past that has been a chance for those with power to grab a lot more.

[-] 3 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 months ago

bah

I could be set up in a year

[-] -2 points by factsrfun (5952) from Phoenix, AZ 6 months ago

Cool I will consider your bid for the Crown, but I'm not committing to your Connation just yet.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 months ago

no need to personify

heaven forbid

congress is achieve outside the courtyard

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (5952) from Phoenix, AZ 6 months ago

but surly someone would need The Crown to do this in a year, we as a whole Nation can get little done in a year...

people who speak of solutions that would require more power to employ than we concede today do not present a way forward to me....

[-] 3 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 months ago

power is not required

participation is

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (5952) from Phoenix, AZ 6 months ago

really? i guess you must have the "power" to make people particate?

I know what you mean if everyone would just agree with you then we could get this fixed. Isn't that sort of like being King?

We could also fix this by throwing out the GOP and we don't even need "everyone" to agree just a little over half.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 months ago

replace the current representative government with one that is more representive

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (5952) from Phoenix, AZ 5 months ago

Tough to get people to agree on things these days and that seems to be a pretty big thing, are you sure we won't have to make you King for just a little while to get the job done?

[-] 1 points by WiredforChange (0) 6 months ago

If removing half the problem is goal #1 for you, there is ample opportunity to get involved:

2910 North Central Ave Phoenix, AZ 85012 · Phone: (602) 298-4200 · Fax: (602) 298-7117

[-] 1 points by flip (7542) 6 months ago

would you like to explain for all to see what the dems have done to reverse the trend of growing inequality - 8 years of Clinton and now 6 of Obama - and the rich get richer. should I point out some FACTS since they are so much fun. seems to me that you don't really like facts. you like opinions (well yours anyway) and you do not seem to be able to use facts to build a case for what you think. why is that - must be you go to an elite school - that 's it right? or maybe the facts don't support your view so you ignore them - like most good democrats (ok, and republicans and libertarians - not good anarchists though - we are not ideologues!)

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (5952) from Phoenix, AZ 6 months ago

Well flip i've been to Bunkervillie have you? I know what anarchy looks like, do you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lq1sFkQXyc

Here's some facts for you

http://illusionofprosperity.blogspot.com/2011/02/wages-ppi-cpi.html

note how in the 90's when Clinton was in office real wages rose against inflation, not so much at other times, of course you don't care about real people wages or the real world you're just a politcal hack set on building a new party to kiss your butt, you ego driven moster

Here you can see the FACT that the us debt was paid down a bit under Clinton, of course it is a key part of the 1% plan to keep the American tax payer in debt to them so they can determine policy by pulling the money away if they have to, the 1% use the debt to keep America under their thunbs, Clinton threaten that, if Gore had been allowed to continue the trend we would be debt free by now and able to aford healthcare for all.

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-coming-shrinking-of-the-deficit-2013-1

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[-] 0 points by WSmith (1405) from Cornelius, OR 6 months ago

And what working notion do you advocate IDIOT!!!!!?

Despite the RW Propaganda: Register and Vote People!

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[-] -1 points by factsrfun (5952) from Phoenix, AZ 6 months ago

So your answer to the parties is to create your own? You are just a politcal hack bent on power,

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[-] 1 points by factsrfun (5952) from Phoenix, AZ 6 months ago

I always knew you were one of those that didn't know the difference between drilling in Alaska or not, between going to war or not, between paying down the debt or not, your only concern is What helps me build the party?

(Your Party)

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[-] 2 points by factsrfun (5952) from Phoenix, AZ 5 months ago

I support taking effective action, putting people on the ballot that pull votes and put people like Bush into the White House is not effective action. I believe we are way past the time when we can sit around hoping for some perfect party to come along to save us, I think we have to kill the GOP ourselves i think we have to take effective action. That does not describe your ego seeking political party building hack ass at all.

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[-] 0 points by factsrfun (5952) from Phoenix, AZ 3 months ago

or do as you do keep your head in the sand and not vote at all or even worse give your vote to some ego whore, that way the GOP can cut taxes and school lunch, build more prisons and keep the people under control and working hard to make the rich richer, people can choose to dream or act, action means doing something, this entire system would be turned upside down if the GOP were forced to talk about issues that affect wealth, but we play into their hands and talk about everything else. and mostly OWS talks about how bad the Dems are, so in balance it may have actually made the GOP stronger and thereby the 1% even more secure in their power.

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[-] 1 points by factsrfun (5952) from Phoenix, AZ 3 months ago

so when presented with workable plan you resort to name calling, you are the idiot bent on doing nothing and ensuring the power of 1% forever!

[-] -3 points by WSmith (1405) from Cornelius, OR 6 months ago

When we have let things get this out of hand, we can't fine tune.

We Just Have To Show The Fuck UP!!!

[-] -2 points by factsrfun (5952) from Phoenix, AZ 6 months ago

If you think the polices of the GOP are acceptable then you are an idoit but you're entitled to be one if you want to.

As far as recoginzing who the GOP is and fighting for their removal from office if you "look how well it's worked" I guess the same could be said for voting altogether, I suppose you would prefer we go back to Monarchy as the GOP would have us do?

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[-] 1 points by factsrfun (5952) from Phoenix, AZ 6 months ago

"Please, by all means continue to be a voice for partisan politics, it has worked so well for us in the past. "

You say that removing the GOP from office is not worth doing, you are an idoit it is the beginning of getting anything done at all.

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[-] 0 points by factsrfun (5952) from Phoenix, AZ 3 months ago

I seek to take action now you seem to think some new political party will be any better than the ones we have, the answer is not in a new party it is in killing the GOP, that party cares for nothing but to empower the wealthy and to protect their wealth, exposing that truth will result in the end of the GOP and of course the same forces that have always driven the creation of two parties in this country will cause a new one to form, if we take the power of money from the process with public funding then it could represent the people much better than any available now. But the first step is the death of the GOP by attacking and informing the public about the GOP as it weakens the people's power will rise. This attacking the left to try and carve out a separate power structure is nothing but an exercise in ego.

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[-] 1 points by factsrfun (5952) from Phoenix, AZ 3 months ago

You are an ego driven idiot bent on your own power and care nothing of addressing the issues.

"Brain washed minion" I wonder how you talk when are looking for a fight, you are so transparent, you accuse me of looking for a fight then follow with personal insults, YOU ARE AN IDIOT

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1777) 3 months ago

please stop

i don't need daily reminders of my inability to be employed

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[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1777) 3 months ago

got that rent money ?

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[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 3 months ago

I won't even call it a Conservative agenda... because the neo cons, tea party and kochs have destroyed the once honorable conservatives!!

so lets call it TeaParty...

TeaParty agenda= take work from people who work, and give their lost income to people who don't need to work... because they're daddy's gave them everything but compassion, integrity & self respect

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (5952) from Phoenix, AZ 3 months ago

The country is fed up with people like you, people that put W Bush into office and are seeking even now to put his brother there, it is people like you that we are tired of, even if you have only been here a couple of months, what took you so long to join the cause if you are such a supporter?

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[-] 0 points by MattHolck0 (1777) 3 months ago

what's a liberal agenda

is that like guava jelly?

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (5952) from Phoenix, AZ 3 months ago

So you are a Monarchist? You hate democracy and the power that it gives to the people and would prefer the marketplace determine who should be King?

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[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1777) 3 months ago

use > at the beginning of a line

to create a paragraph indent for quoting

this rebuttal speaks of the others argument and how it is wrong

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (5952) from Phoenix, AZ 3 months ago

I got as far as " people would vote for judges" guess what? they do in many places like where I live, so I would suppose that is "proof" that you are stupid, You wish for power to pass through families through inherited wealth and thus the return of Monarchy, you are just so stupid (as was proven above) that you don't realize it is Monarchy you ack for.

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[-] 1 points by factsrfun (5952) from Phoenix, AZ 3 months ago

I wonder if your thoughts are as confused as your writing, but still your support for Monarchy is clear, judges decide cases brought before them based on the laws of the land at least in theory, that is very different than writing the laws, Monarchist such as yourself would have those that write the laws do so in a manner to help those that pay them to rather than for the masses.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 3 months ago

oh... so you don't believe in democracy... so are you a fascist ?

[-] 1 points by flip (7542) 6 months ago

If you are saying that Clinton and Obama are less bad then I agree. Your point about debt and deficits shows a lack of understanding about how money works. Time for you to read Galbraith and Hudson - learn some real world economics instead of watching youtube

[-] -2 points by factsrfun (5952) from Phoenix, AZ 6 months ago

and your reply shows that you are lazy and understand nothing, if you did you would make your point here rather than name drop

[-] 1 points by flip (7542) 6 months ago

I made my point - you are just too young and stupid to understand it - that is not my fault. here - how about this - paying down debt takes money out of the economy - running a surplus as Clinton brags about is the policy of the wall street journal - it takes money out of the economy. here is what the journal says about the Clintons - " At the same time, Mrs. Clinton is a different sort of Democrat than the president—more aligned with the pro-business views that her husband championed as he moved the Democratic Party toward the political center in the early 1990s. As a senator from New York, she voted for trade deals with Singapore, Chile and Oman over the objections of organized labor.

[-] 1 points by turbocharger (1761) 5 months ago

How organized labor could support Dems or Reps after the 90s and watching them ship all of the jobs out of here is beyond me.

Of course, the union leaders are still getting paid, so I guess thats part of it.

[-] 1 points by flip (7542) 5 months ago

i think that they, like too many here, feel that they have no choice. since thee gop is so far to the right it makes it easy for the dems to pretend to be "for the people" while they pay corporations to ship jobs overseas, cut taxes for the rich and fight wars all over the planet - real lefties!

[-] 2 points by turbocharger (1761) 5 months ago

Its pretty incredible. To listen to everyone complain, and their lone action is to endorse some politician to save them, is pretty insane.

Vermont usually does a good job or organizing and passing things. But everyone else just kind of sits arounds and bitches. I mean, where are all the organizers putting together the platforms for healthcare, for financial reform, etc.

Its the peoples job to put this stuff together. The politicians work for us. If you dont give them anything to do, like a child they will wander.

[-] -2 points by factsrfun (5952) from Phoenix, AZ 5 months ago

You are an idoit, or a banker trying to convice us debt is good.

[-] 1 points by flip (7542) 5 months ago

time to read one of the founders of ows - graeber - "debt the first 5000 years" then you will understand that money is debt. sorry it is not my fault just a simple fact. here is kelton quoting learner - “Abba Lerner was an economist, a contemporary of John Maynard Keynes. He saw this very clearly. He said:

“‘By virtue of the power to create or destroy money by fiat and its power to take money away from people through taxation, [the State] is in a position to keep the rate of spending in the economy at the level required [for full employment]." and now alan watts - that should do it for your education if you have any brains at all - . on the fundamental confusion between money and wealth: Remember the Great Depression of the Thirties? One day there was a flourishing consumer economy, with everyone on the up-and-up; and the next, unemployment, poverty, and bread lines. What happened? The physical resources of the country -- the brain, brawn, and raw materials -- were in no way depleted, but there was a sudden absence of money, a so-called financial slump. Complex reasons for this kind of disaster can be elaborated at length by experts on banking and high finance who cannot see the forest for the trees.

But it was just as if someone had come to work on building a house and, on the morning of the Depression, the boss had said, "Sorry, baby, but we can't build today. No inches." "Whaddya mean, no inches? We got wood. We got metal. We even got tape measures." "Yeah, but you don't understand business. We been using too many inches and there's just no more to go around." A few years later, people were saying that Germany couldn't possibly equip a vast army and wage a war, because it didn't have enough gold. What wasn't understood then, and still isn't really understood today, is that the reality of money is of the same type as the reality of centimeters, grams, hours, or lines of longitude. Money is a way of measuring wealth but is not wealth in itself. A chest of gold coins or a fat wallet of bills is of no use whatsoever to a wrecked sailor alone on a raft. He needs real wealth, in the form of a fishing rod, a compass, an outboard moter with gas, and a female companion.

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[-] 1 points by flip (7542) 6 months ago

he did not miss your point - he is just blind to the FACT that both parties are funded by the rich. I tried to have a discussion with him and he not capable of thought. he is young and in college so maybe that is the reason!

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (5952) from Phoenix, AZ 6 months ago

you seem to feel that the only thing that matters is where the money comes from, have you considered that 7% of the money is shared by 80% of the people in this country, so basically everyone works for and takes money from rich people you state that we all live under a blue sky and think you've said something....

[-] 1 points by flip (7542) 6 months ago

he who pays the piper calls the tune - is that clear enough for you or should i spell it out? AGAIN!

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (5952) from Phoenix, AZ 5 months ago

So you support the ideal that if you pay the bill you should get your will?

I am not surprised, I always considered you to be a supporter of Monarchy and inherited power and wealth, and you think that those that pay should have their way. Well I think we should take the power away from money and the first step of doing that is to throw their lackeys out. The GOP stand for making rich people richer and money more powerful, if you don't know that you're stupid, if you do and don't do all you can to defeat them you are evil, it really is that simple.

[-] 1 points by flip (7542) 5 months ago

Obama campaign 2008 - University of California $1,799,460 Goldman Sachs $1,034,615 Harvard University $900,909 Microsoft Corp $854,717 JPMorgan Chase & Co $847,895 Google Inc $817,855 Citigroup Inc $755,057

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[-] 1 points by flip (7542) 6 months ago

Right on man

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[-] 1 points by factsrfun (5952) from Phoenix, AZ 6 months ago

the first step is to unite to remove the GOP from office that is clear and easy to see by anyone who wants to create real change....

[-] 2 points by DKAtodayandtomorrow (-7) 3 months ago

Tue Aug 05, 2014 at 07:12 AM PDT ABC Poll: Republicans About As Popular As Ebola.

by pollwatcherFollow

[-] 2 points by publius31 (69) from Fort Lee, NJ 3 months ago

I couldn't agree more. We are kept distracted with bitching and moaning, with needs and wants, sports and sex, while the power structure of the Oligarchs buys our Congress and decides how they will improve their command and control over the Congress and therefore over the people. While the human qualities of greed, envy, false hope, and egoism are used to control our Representatives, and us, we go about complaining about the government. We must put the government into our own hands. We must become the legislature and vote directly on the laws. Nothing else is political equality and political freedom and it is the basic concept of democracy. Our government has failed because of its form, not its leaders, all leaders for all time have the same human nature. We need Actual Democracy, see assosactualdemocracy.com, where the people vote on the laws, which implies control the budget, set public policy, and take back command and control of our society from the hands of the few and put it into the hands of all. Its our responsibility to protect ourselves from corruption and greed, and 'special people' who pay for 'special interests. All the disgruntled groups have the same complaint: the government uses the power we gave it against us. We need to quit delegating the power of our vote and use it directly. It's the fundamental principle that can at least address the big problem: being slave to the Oligarchs.

[-] 1 points by LeoYo (5909) 6 months ago

With the implementation of suggestion #6 of the Municipal National Political Initiatives http://occupywallst.org/forum/omni-organizing-municipal-national-initiatives/ (see http://occupywallst.org/forum/freeda-free-democracy-affidavits/) the National Democratic Congress could immediately liberate the public good from the subversive control of private interests thereby removing the influence of moneyed corporations from government.

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[-] 1 points by LeoYo (5909) 6 months ago

Probably, http://occupywallst.org/forum/twenty-four-states/#comment-885192 but nothing ventured, nothing gained. The most that can be done is to make sure that the option is known. From there, it's on the people to decide what to do.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 months ago

The last guy to be adamant about that, was chased off the forum by libe(R)tarians.

Oh, and by the way....teabagg(R)s raised my taxes.

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[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 months ago

You misunderstand the teabagge(R)s, they are a faux populist movement, started by avowed libe(R)tarians, whether you look them as started by the Koch's, or Ron Rand.

Either way, the last guy around here who was adamant about getting the money out, was chased off by the forums own cadre of libe(R)tarians.

I doubt, he'll back and that's a sad thing.

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[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 months ago

What I believe, is that those people that populated the teabagge(R)s were "softened" by years of exposure to FLAKESnews, Limbaugh and any number of late night radio "personalities".

In reality they were/are tools for the libe(R)tarian infection.

Here's the original agenda of the "true libe(R)tarians", a group without which few would have known about this philosophy.

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/koch-brothers

I've been under heavy attack since posting this revelatory link.

No one has been willing to admit, how much of this agenda has already been instituted in their own State.

There is the reality of their "greater agenda".

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[-] -3 points by Narley (295) 6 months ago

While your ideas are admiral, they will never happen. First and foremost, the masses are so polarized on almost every issue. I don’t mean people just disagree, I mean we have wild eyed, foaming at the mouth, fist shaking rage type hate. Anyone who disagrees with your view is called the vilest of names, bullied, harassed and every effort is made to make the offender pay for disagreeing with you. People don’t want to hear other opinions, and will go to great length to punish anyone who has a different opinion.

Don’t believe me, check out the comments sections of any new site. This forum has a serious problem with hate. Don’t believe me? Then make a pro-republican post and see what you get. The topic doesn’t matter, could be guns, abortion, the budget, immigration, voting or whatever. For too many people the only solution is their solution. I don’t see this changing in the foreseeable future.

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