Forum Post: Bush waterboarded 3 terrorists, total. Obama has drone slaughtered dozens
Posted 11 years ago on June 15, 2012, 2:33 p.m. EST by delayedgrat
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Where is the outrage?
I am outraged at your dumbass partisan stupidity. The two-party elected 'representative' system has proven to be an unmitigated disaster for the bulk of humanity the 1% are very happy with it,. why do you support them, since you are a lowly worker??
coast of living is very chip in the east. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVXvv_gaQhA&feature=player_embedded#!
No- Bush did much better than that!
Add to his score
4,000+ Americans
and
100,000+ Iraqis
There you go blming Bush again - you are parroting Obama. How about an individual thought instead.
Obama could have discontinued the war but he didn't and as a result we are now using drones to kill people. If the Obimination discontinued the war we wouldin't be having this dialogue.
It's typical for any person who is over their head in the job they do to blame someone else because of their own failures.
Seems like the comparison started with delayedgrat when he posted the thread. If you don't want to do that try another thread.
The reason the politicians do it is because it works on the people.
They serve the ones with the money. Keep the idiots believing is their main concern
That was a military action agreed to by Congress.
a difference of no relavance
Obama is up to 300 drone strikes, attacking 6 nations in three years.
This is not an Obama/Bush thing, it is a banker owned government that is trying to maintain the #1 spot by whatever means neccesarry.
The USA is not smart enough to compete in the 21st century. And the fact that we are allowing our gov to do this stuff only further proves it.
Well said.
It's horrible. But he's only the mouthpiece for Pentagon traitor generals. Treasonous traitors. Watch the Wikileaks video again. Monsters.
The "Pentagon traitor generals" are doing what they are doing for their next job - creating HUGE profits for the military suppliers, Drones are actually the opposite - they are the most economical way to attack the enemy.
Those terrorist were smart enough not to attack oil tankers, weren't they? That would really have made us mad,
Why can't people not turn this into repub vs dem??? Bush indefinitely detained people without a trial...tortured...entered wars unconstitutionally....and obama has done the exact same thing with some added assassinations of american citizens....it's all illegal....there is no difference between the left and right anymore. Is your argument that because bush didn't assassinate american citizens and only tortured and detained them that this somehow makes him better than obama?
The parties are vastly different. The repubs proudly trumpet the right wing policies that benefit the 1% and hurt the 99%, The Dems speak out for the left wing policies that would benefit the 99%, The dems even mostly vote for the progressive policies we need. However the dems have moved right for 30 years, and they have lost their backbone when confronted by the right wing. So the dems betrayed their left wing principles. OWS can drag the dems back to the progressive left wing. We should certainly try.
Rhetoric is different...but if you look at what actually occurs from administration to administration.....very little changes. Both is a never ending expansion of governement. Both are shrills for the corporations because of monetary contributions..Take a look at obama and romney....both of their leading campaign contributors are the same....it's a big game to give the illusion of a difference. Now you take the honest politicians no both sides (say Ron Paul and Dennis Kuc)...then you might get some differences
Leading campaign contributers are the same"? Huh? Repubs= Rove, Koch, Adelson, Hidden 1% bundlers (meeting in Utah). Pres Obama= Most contributions are from under $200 from average Americans. Wall st 1% are giving 90% of their money to repubs. Perhaps we see different numbers but that is what I see. And things change very slowly between admins Yes. Change is almost non existent. But any positive change occurs only when progressive/left wing policies get passed. Our problem is that only right wing policies get passed. (because too many dems betray the 99%). Support OWS. Vote out pro citizens united politicians!
This is revealed by a quick look at Romney’s top contributors. An Open Secrets page on top Romney contributors reads like a Who’s Who of Wall Street and the financial cartel. The top contributor is Goldman Sachs, followed by Credit Suisse Group, Morgan Stanley, Bank of America, JP Morgan Chase, UBS, Citigroup, Wells Fargo and Barclays – major players in the Wall Street and City of London bankster constellation.
It is not clear why Mr. Lee opposes Obama – his campaign contributors are almost a carbon copy of Mitt’s. Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan (where Lee worked), Citigroup, Morgan Stanley, USB and many of the same players donated heavily to Obama’s campaign in 2008.
In 2008 it was clear that the Dems would win and it is true that Candidate Obama got lots of Wall st money. They had to. In order to attempt to influence Pres Obama and the Dems. Did they succeed.? The wall st contributions are the evidence that their money did not influence Pres Obama. "it is not clear why they oppose Obama"? huh? Although repubs obstructed, watered down, and have continued to delay the implementation of the Fin reform, the Pres and the Dems did get something passed. Wall st hates that. That reform is too weak (because of repubs) but still as a result of this dem fin reform, Wall st money is aimed directly against dems/Obama. Does that clarify it for you?
It was an article....the "it is not clear" thing.
They're both corporately tied to the same people....its a sham.
Wall st money is goin to your boy Mitt. Because they don't like even the weak fin reform Pres Obama and the Dems passed and continue to try to implement. Wall st knows that If Dems had their way the fin reform would be stronger. We (OWS) must pressure every politician not to be influenced by Wall st money and support progressive left wing policies that help the 99%. Support OWS! Vote out anti fin reform politicians!
I can't stand Mitt Romney...disgusting....he's a model for everything that is wrong with washington....the problem is though...i feel the same way about obama. To me it's not a dem vs repub deal.....i don't have the party blinders on.
The dems have betrayed their left wing progressive principles. They are as much the problems as the Repubs. But the problem is clearly that we have allowed the right wing policies that help the 1% be implemented. Dems have moved right, and have caved in to the right.
What right wing policies?
Anti women, anti gay, anti immigrant, anti minority policies are right wing!
Cutting the taxes of the wealthy 1%, Cutting regulations for the wealthy 1% corps (fin reg, enviro regs, etc) cutting college aid for the middle class, cutting all programs for the poor! cutting state support for 1st responders/municipal csontruction/education jobs! Subsidizing fossil fuels and cutting/preventing alternative energy investments/jobs. Citizens united/corp personhood,! Policies that hurt the working class 99%, and help the wealthy 1% are right wing.
Yeah don't agree....the wealthy pay their fair share of taxes....why not cut everyone's taxes?? How does the wealthy steal money from you? What wealthy businessman has ever stolen money from you directly? How do they do it? They do it through government....just like we were talking about above...you got the same campaign contributors on both sides working the system. Business can't steal your money....they earn it...through providing a good product that you vote for everytime you buy something. Government steals your money however...how about Haliburton and guaranteed government contracts that rip off the american people with obsurd overseas costs for the military? How about private contractors getting paid 2-3 times what regular military men and women get overseas - these are tax dollars paying for them...your money. How is this done...through government. The only way a business can forceably steal your money is through government....via corrupt government corporate fusion of business. Start pointing the finger at government and the banking system if you want to explain the separation of wealth in this country. For a quick overview of the banking system and how money is being stolen from you go to
www.hmscoop.com
I agree with you "they (the wealthy 1%) do it through govt". Yeah the pols are bought and sold! They pass all the right wing policies I listed (and more) to facilitate the theft of working class Americans money. Over the last 30 years The wealthy 1% have perpetrated the biggest transfer (theft) of wealth from the middle class to the 1% in all history. They have gotten all laws/right wing policies they wanted claiming it would trickle down and they would be the job creators! instead they moved our jobs overseas, hid their assets overseas to avoid taxes, moved their HQ as well. They have destroyed unions, stolen pensions and crashed the world economy and in the process stole about 40% of our home value. Well, they breached the job creator agreement! We want our money back!. You're right "they do it through govt" Pols are culpable! but they are the tools of the criminal 1% who still have our money. Just follow the money! You wanna know where our home value went? They have it! Lets get it back!
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To bad he will not send a drone after you.
You want to kill bensdad.? You must be a right wing wacko.! They usually resort to the schoolyard bullying tactics of your candidate Romney!
As bad as Obama is, this is one of his greatest triumphs. drone strikes mean no chance of losing a valuable American soldier to take out a subhuman jihadist.
And this has been going on long enough for anyone to know that if you are near a subhuman jihadist, your chances of being blown the F up increase exponentially.
So tuff darts to anyone stupid enough to be close to a subhuman jihadists. Might as well be playing in the cooling tower of a nuclear plant. Darwinism in action!
Pres Obama has ended Bush's illegal Iraq war for oil , Has begun the process of ending Bush's war in Afghan for oil. He has also fought to get us off of foreign oil and into Alt energy, He has ended CIA secret prisons, Has redefined waterboarding as torture and ended torture by the US military, He has ended the fear mongering color coded threat level, he has ended the war mongering "endless war on terror" terminology that the right has perpetrated. instead of starting another 10 yr war with 1/2 a million troops and slaughtering millions of civilians like your repubs, he has used target drone attacks in Yemen (with their approval). I am against the drone attacks but I recognize it represent a vast improvement over the millions slaughter by Nixon,Ford, Reagan, Bush 2. over the decades. He has cut the military and will do so much than any repub. He has minimized and will end the use of mercenary armies. He has tried to stop NDAA, has created a signing statement against it and hasn't challenged the court case that made indef det illegal. What more do you want.? Agitate for specific change! What issue do you care about. in regards to war.? You don't care. You are just a partisan attacking Obama unreasonably.
Obama supported Afghanistan and increased the war when he took office. He also chose to bomb nations Bush didn't even mess with. Let's not forget that Congress voted for war in Iraq as well. There is plenty of blame to go around but yes a majority of it falls on Bush. Clinton and Bush agreed Iraq had WMD's. Bush is a warmonger and a criminal. Obama's administration needs to release the evidence they have that the ACLU is suing for based on the FOIA. But to dismiss Obama for his illegal activities because of how terrible Bush was... no way.
Now we're being told about threatening WMD programs in Iran? Both supported by Romney and Obama.
Dems voted for the war in a betrayal of the left wing principles they espouse and once (decades ago) adhered to. Clinton and others dems betrayed the left countless times when they voted for right wing policies. The dems are more disappointing to me because I expect the repubs to serve the right wing 1%. They trumpet it proudly. The dems are supposed to stand against that as the left wing standard bearer. They haven't because we have been asleep. OWS is awakening the left again. And so it is possible to drag the dems back to the left and make them serve the 99%
Hey VQ, who ended the Vietnam war? Who was responsible for the mass escalation of the Vietnam war? Yes Republicans today are psychos, but OBAMA IS NOT A GREAT PRESIDENT.
He has begun the long slow process of undoing the endless war on terror, the worst fin collapse in 70years. and made slow progress while the repubs have obstructed, sabotaged, delayed, misused the filibuster and fought every step of the way. He has moved forward in the face of withering criticisn even from his base. The vietname war was ended when the protests forced Nixon to finally recognize he could defeat the vietnamese people. Johnson, and then Nixon excalated the vietnam war. ok?
Your smoking crack. Obama is killing foreigners and US citizens without any due process. Bush put them in jail and tortured them, Obama just takes them and their families out.
Bush slaughtered millions. I may be against drone attacks but I know it is an improvement. And I know we can get Dems to improve further with constant protests by OWS.
I don't know how you are calculating death, but you are incorrect. Millions of people did not die under Bush.
Bush was upfront with his military moves while Obama is violating laws and killing people.
I am not incorrect. You and I disagree! thats all. How many do you think were slaughtered under Bush? Or do you excuse all Bush's murder while sniping at the limited, transparent, use of our military that has resulted in only dozens killed by Pres Obama? To suggest that Bush was "upfront" after the lies, and deceit he used to drag the world into illegal, unnecessary war of choice betrays your republican partisanship. So We are gonna disagree.
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I am not condoning the Iraq war, I was against it. I don't think however, it was lies. They believed there were WMDs there and the intelligence supported it. There is evidence however, that they also wanted to take out a "bad guy" While I am completely against that idea, I completely understand it. Why was this war illegal, whose law did Bush break?
Were there millions killed in Iraq? I have not seen any credible study showing that. "dozens killed by Obama", well accoridng to the US military the US casualty rate has multiplied 5 times since Obama has taken over.
And you refuse to address his killing of US citizens by drones? This is clearly illegal under US law while Bush broke no US law going into Iraq.
Your defense of Bush's slaughter of millions in his illegal war clearly places you in opposition of my views. Why waste our time? It was illegal because the so called "evidence" was fabricated. US casualty rates are non existant outside Bushs wars! The wars by the way that Pres Obama ended (Iraq) and started the ending (Afghan). Killed US citizen? Which one? The Al Queda spokesman in Yemen trying to recruit Americans to kill our citizens? Or his son that the Al queda guy used as a human shield when he put him in harms way.? Which one are you defending?
There have been more than two but the killing of American citizend without due process is clearly illegal.
Sorry Charlie, Bush didn't kill millions and the war was not illegal. Obama, who prides himself on being a constitutional scholar, is violating the constitution all over the place. The issue with Holder is just par for the course.
Clearly your are anti Obama/dem. We are gonna disagree. I can accept that. I think you will have to. Your opinion seems partisan based. I say we have made progress, and need to make much more. We must force progressive policies/agenda if we are gonna improve our country/world. Support OWS. Vote out pro torture politicians.
Yes we are going to disagree. OWS is dead.
Seems alive and well to me.
Yeah, you showed up in Wisconsin and in San Jose and in San Diego. Maybe you should move to France.
Huh? No comprende! I like my very liberal bklyn ny thank you very much.
Then keep your socialistic ideas in Brooklyn, NY and allow the rest of us to live with freedom and liberty.
I'm free pretty well thanks, except for the fascist police state tactics used against the honest, brave protesters of OWS, as well as all the govt cameras, and the unconstitutional stop & frisk violations targeting minorities. Don't you support OWS?
"we can get Dems"....just furthering the point that you have no freakin clue about OWS whatsoever
Now here you are bothering someone else - how is that being helpful uplifting or positive for the movements against greed corruption and crime.
Eore you are a lost cause. hchc - Eore.
Prove me wrong do something good and positive and uplifting.
You were absent on this one for some time: http://occupywallst.org/forum/shake-it-up-real-solutions-to-real-problems-with-a/
OK - so continue - stop fucking around wasting peoples time - Eore.
Well why dont you contribute to a solutions post for once in your life?
I do all the time. i often take some of my support comments that I make on someones post and start a new post. You want I should copy you some links?
Now quit fucking with people and see if you can do something positive.
please post links
Well - Now - there is a starter for ya.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/what-do-you-want-protest-in-the-streets-or-politic/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/society-fails-when-the-people-are-removed-from-the/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/letter-to-the-president-and-all-members-of-governm/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/letter-sent-to-the-sierra-club-at-their-e-mail-con/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/health-and-prosperity-for-all-moving-forward-in-un/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/get-active-be-proactive-unite-in-common-cause/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/clean-coal-another-lie-being-toldsold-to-the-publi/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/query-your-government-include-all-of-humanity-in-y/
With the exception of the one with the email addresses to representatives, these are all posts on facts on what is going on, or what the symptoms are.
Where are the detailed solutions to solve any of the problems you just listed in those 8 posts?
What you didn't like the direct action items?
http://occupywallst.org/forum/get-active-be-proactive-unite-in-common-cause/
You don't like outreach to like minded groups looking for unity in Common Cause?
http://occupywallst.org/forum/letter-sent-to-the-sierra-club-at-their-e-mail-con/
Or do you have a failure to comprehend positive action and the advocating of others to do the same?
Signing petitions is not direct action.
Its nice you sent a letter to the sierra club. I would put more emphasis on challenging readers to send the same letter to at least five clubs in their local cities.
Is there anything going on in Coon Rapids in the next few weeks? If not, you should create something maybe? We could help with it maybe?
Best thing happening in the state right now is Occupy Homes Minnesota.
There is a link in the forum tool bar - info tent.
So your against signing petitions? I would encourage everyone to sign as many petitions as they can. They are all over the place and there has been lots of small successes. And of course protest constantly on the streets.
These are all excellent posts and good ideas for affecting change.
Thank you. I believe that is also why they are attacked by the CorpoRats.
Thank you for your efforts in standing up for democracy.
Oops my humility slipped - I should have said - gawrsh shuks thanks taint nothin.
lots of suggestions for affecting change. perhaps you missed it. read them again. Or maybe you disagree with the goals? Do you support the 99%. Are you anti OWS?
I'm clueless"? thats just a meaningless insult. Maybe OWS doesn't agree with my statement about getting dems to improve further. Who the F%CK cares.
You think I'm takin polls.? You think I'm tryin to fit into OWS? That is for small followers. I am a leader. I make my own decisions. I don't have my finger to the wind to see what is popular. Nor do I have my finger up my %ss doing nothing but sniping at anyone that disagrees with me.
I can't get people to agree with me by insulting them like you do. I can't silence dissent by threatening schoolyard bully tactics. That is for the ignorant jocks who don't think deep enough to recognize what will help the 99%.
I don't care if I don't understand OWS. I understand the issues that affect the 99%. Understand?
Keep typing dude....please keep typing...
An unhinged slave to the dnc and a 911 truthtard arguing.
What great deed did I do to deserve this kind of awesomeness?
The tears of laughter and the tears of karmaic gratitude combine to make the sweetest taste known to mankind,
"truthtard"? is that some slur about retarded people? Some people think it is offensive to use that slur. Why don't you leave that 'ism" out of these forums. It's kind of immature and doesn't really move the discussion forward.
You're not too bright, are you?
9/11 truther = truthtard
You know, the mentally ill kooks who wrecked at least half of ows' credibility.
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I suppose you are much smarter than me. I am not worthy. But I know mentally ill people shouldn't be referred to as retarded. It's a slur. I suppose I'm smart enough to know that.
That's swell.
millions slaughtered? Prove it.
Lets ask a terrorist: Want to be waterboarded for a month, or be peacefully eating dinner and have your entire family blown to bits with a drone missle?
Actually a terrorist might struggle to answer that.
Prove it"? NO!. Believe it or don't. Don't matter to me. I know that 10 years of war in 2 middle east countries resulted in untold millions slaughtered. I am against the drone stikes, but they do not compare to the millions slaughtered by Nixon,Ford,Reagan, and Bush for the last 4 decades. I wish they would have managed out military like this great President has.
You're full of shit. You cant prove it, lying asshole. Go climb nder the slimy lying rock planaria and nematode lying slime live under, lying dogworm coward.
Ha!. as always your kind fall back on the schoolyard bullying tactics of your candidate Romney. Don't you know it is ineffective online? Without the threat of physical violence verbal insults and intimidation simple betray your childishness and weakness of argument. In the end it means that you have lost the argument. You no longer have anything of substance to offer. Bye Bye!. You are dismissed. I have dispatched you thoroughly and without mercy. LMFAO!
Ok loser.
Here are the stats: About 150000 civilan casualties Iraq. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
Vietnam there were about 2 million casualties, but most were by the Dems who got us into the war, Johnson mostly.
So loser, find me the millions and millions you say that Nixon, Ford, Reagan and Bush 1and 2 got us, please.
NO!. I don't care if you believe reality or not. You want links.? Links? We don' need no stinkin' links!. Nixon killed millions in vietnam, cambodia, laos chile and other South American countries. Ford was behind millions slaughtered in east timor. Reagan killed his millions in central america when he traded with the Ayatollah, as well millions in afghan when he fought against russia and partnered with the taliban. Reagan also supported Saddam when he slaughtered his people too in the '80s. You don't have to believe it. I lived through it and learned about these things as they happened. You are just a repub apologist.
Now I understand. You are a total wacko. Where can I send padding for your cell?
Insults! no substance! If you have no substance then just don't respond. It is wrong to insult people. it is the schoolyard bullying tactics of your candidate Romney. And you should try to be better than that.
You get teased because its like a 3rd grader in high school.
"teased"? oh you're one of those bully apologists. boys will be boys. everyone has to go through it, it's part of growing up. it's just hazing, its just rough housing, it's just how fraternities act. Well you and your friend delayedgrat may think it's ok, or maybe you have the mentality of a 3rd grader. you may actually be a 3rd grader. I suppose that is possible. However, I prefer substantive discussion to find solutions that can help the 99%. So when you repub plants inevitably resort to the schoolyard bullying tactics of your candidate Romney I will call you out. Simple.
No, you prefer to lie. You lie about everything. I asked you for proof that milions of people were klled by recent Republican Presidents and you could not. That makes your claims a lie, like most everything you post. You want honest discussion? Prvides fact based argument. Till then you are a sad little worm.
more meaningless insults. I associate the tactics of personal destruction as a right wing tactic. Even if you disagree with my estimates of death over the last 40 years you can';t honestly believe our dozens killed with drone strikes compares at all with the many wars we've been involved. So the number is not really relevant! The relevant fact is that the US under Pres Obama is killing much fewer people than we have since before WWII. That is an improvement. I may be against the drone attacks. and protest against them. but I can't pretend for you that our current limited, careful efforts are worse than the past.
Yes, accurate numbers are relevant. please be truthful or youwont be insulted. Throwing out untruthful numbers justmmakes you look stupid.
more insults.! To compare the current limited, careful use of military force to the previous decades of reckless slaughter is dishonest. It clearly reflects your right wing partisan leanings. Your attempting to equate this Presidents minimal military use to the excessive force of the past in order to minimize previous Repub crimes, and exaggerate this Presidents much improved responsible and restrained use.
The reason he is killing them instead of sending them to Cuba is that he knows the liberal left wing will be up in arms if he did. He has a problem and he solves it by knocking them off.
more likely dead men tell no tales
Saddam was executed before be taken to trial of gassing the Kurds
as the US was supporting him at the time ,
I doubt some wanted to see that go to trial
The idea of not sending them to Cuba was reported by the NY Times and has been corroborated by multiple sources.
And we are not even touching on the collateral killings that occur that are being categorized incorrectly. Men who are bystanders are siad to be combatants.
If Bush did this, you would be calling for his impeachment.
bush passed the law that allows bystanders to be called combatants. called the patriot act .. they will never repeal it it is bush's legacy