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Forum Post: Society fails when the people are removed from the process.

Posted 2 years ago on June 10, 2012, 11:35 a.m. EST by DKAtoday (28455) from Coon Rapids, MN
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

It does not matter the social system that is the chosen society model.

Not one damn little bit.

Every single failed society came about through the removal of the population from the process.

Every single failed society was caused by the segments of those societies that had the money power and influence and excluded their fellow citizens.

Societies stopped working for the good of ALL in the society. And then they failed.

OK - I know this is going to start up trouble - so I might as well jump in with both feet.

There has never been a true communist Russia.

Nope the Czars were thrown down by the people and were replaced by a dictatorship that won it's place by telling lies to the population about communal good and all working to support all.

Then they went and siphoned off the fruits of the peoples labor for themselves at the top and left the population to fend for itself in a police state that kept the population from running wild.

China is much the same - ruling elite siphoning off the fruits of it's people labor.

That being said - there is no place - no form of society in the world today - that does not operate on these same principals. Whether it is dressed up as a democracy or socialism or Aristocracy etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc - it is all the same - the few with money influence and power ruling over the masses - largely to their own benefit.

It is - again - when the people are removed from the process - and society stops working for the benefit of ALL society - that then those societies begin to fail.

Hence we come to today and the world wide economic meltdown.

Just one sign of things to come - unless society makes a real change and starts working for the benefit of ALL of the society.


This has also been shared as an open letter to the President all of the currently seated government and through social media to all of the citizens of the USA and anyone in the world with internet access.

34 Comments

34 Comments


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[-] 3 points by markpaddles (143) from Denver, CO 2 years ago

Leisure = time at one's own discretion.

Aristotle noted that leisure is a necessary condition in politics for a good society.

The leisure time of the majority of Americans has decreased over the decades - they have become more and more leisureless; working harder for less and getting less leisure time after work. And the little leisure they do have they spend it with their toys, hobbies, family, kids, booze, drugs, TV, recovering from hard work, or a combination of all of these things.

In the absence of more leisure time to spend on politics... Politics and democracy has been re-shaped for them by political media wizards and a crappy educational system who tell them to enjoy their leisure and just to simply vote every two years (which they then conveniently help pre-select candidates for them.)

In short, it's a combination of phenomena that have removed the population from the process. And if Re-invigorating democracy is the ultimate goal then a combination of things needs to be done to address the different phenomena. I think OWS does an incredible service to the re-invigoration of democracy because it is helping to re-educate, re-awaken and re-mind us that we the people can (and should!) be a part of the political process beyond what the political media wizards have feed to us with their empty slogans and sound-bites. This process will take time, as somebody once said: This isn't a sprint; it's a marathon!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28455) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Thanks for the comment. There is a new feature at the top in the forum tool bar ( info tent ) I have not explored it yet. But looks like a good place to share out information strategy articles thoughts videos. Anyway I am also talking to jart on setting up an education and outreach site.

[-] 3 points by Puzzlin (2898) 2 years ago

I think it's a very valid point. I agree with your idea.

I would add this point to round out the conversation a little. AT Any time, the American people can awaken, become informed of the evident truth, and, for some motivating reason, take back the reigns of power, which have always been in our hands, we just had to understand this truth. We could have taken it all back at any time. We do indeed have this power. Governments run amok because we don't stop them or we wait way too long to stop them. The people do have the power but it comes at a cost, we must be awake, aware, and that requires time, education. Yes, now my EGO grows too big, yes it can be true, but we are far from it.

Back to reality. In the days we currently live, the truth is too easily swindled. Many don't have the critical thinking skills to call out the lies in real time. We suffer from a general lack of truth which can be changed, but it won't happen over night, and the journey to truth requires a great effort and so therefore the motivation must be high. If your scrambling just to get the next meal on the table, truth is a luxury you may not be able to afford. Yes, I understand duality. It's dualistic but reality wins, today we eat, tomorrow, maybe, we'll philosophize on the truth. The luxury of truth.

The Puzzler

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28455) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Thanks for your well put addition to the post.

I added to the bottom of the post after you had sent your comment.

This post has also gone out as an open letter. {:-])

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 2 years ago

Cool, thanks DK!!!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28455) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Thank you for your efforts.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28455) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago
[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 2 years ago

Absolutely, Bernie does largely speak for me. He's top shelf. His viewpoint is very valuable. I find him inspiring which generally isn't a statement I make too often concerning politicians.

Thanks!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28455) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

You are welcome. If we could only clone the guy whole and complete with the life experience that has made him who he is - government run for the people(?) a real possibility - with one rep.

Never mind - silly thought.

[-] 3 points by Puzzlin (2898) 2 years ago

Russ Fiengold was another one I liked allot and he got cut off at the knees by the TP baggers. The setbacks slow down the train but it's not stopping and the reps will go along for the ride kicking and screaming bloody murder, but the train won't stop and some how sme way we'll get there. At least that's my little fantasy dream. But any way it goes, I know the directions, and I will go that way regardless.

Puzzlin

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28455) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

It is worth the effort no matter what it takes ( well genocide is not acceptable war is not acceptable - I think you know what I mean - just sayin - cause there will be troll comments coming no doubt ) to try to make a better healthy and prosperous world for all.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28455) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Love Bernie Sanders.

An Amazing Speech From One Of The Last Good Men In Politics

http://link.upworthy.com/4fcfcb2462047742c9927ebbi92r.48p/T9iCqi0W1Y4m0TA2C5066

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

I like Kucinich

good to hear Sanders speak

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28455) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

This is the all time best speech ever. I also put it out on twitter. If people want a blast of reality straight out of government - then they need to hear this speech.

http://link.upworthy.com/4fcfcb2462047742c9927ebbi92r.48p/T9iCqi0W1Y4m0TA2C5066

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

I would prefer he didn't refer to the rich sucking up money as a war

Sander's mentioned Iraq and Afghanistan wars twice but did not mention the US bombing other countries

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28455) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

No one is perfect - I thought he gave a remarkable speech.

[-] 2 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

Emma Goldman:

The dominant, almost general, idea of revolution—particularly the Socialist idea—is that revolution is a violent change of social conditions through which one social class, the working class, becomes dominant over another class, the capitalist class. It is the conception of a purely physical change, and as such it involves only political scene shifting and institutional rearrangements. Bourgeois dictatorship is replaced by the “dictatorship of the proletariat”—or by that of its “advance guard,” the Communist Party. Lenin takes the seat of the Romanovs, the Imperial Cabinet is rechristened Soviet of People’s Commissars, Trotsky is appointed Minister of War, and a labourer becomes the Military Governor General of Moscow. That is, in essence, the Bolshevik conception of revolution, as translated into actual practice.

She is disgusted by the injustice, hypocrisy and totalitarian cruelty—the ends justifying the means—that she witnesses in the USSR. Despite knowing very little and having a privileged life, I’ve always felt a similar abhorrence, given their original ideas, to the idea of the Vanguard of the Proletariat—in short, a dictatorial few (it always turns out) suppressing the masses who made the uprising possible, and were fighting for their own emancipation to be individuals, and live with dignity, instead of cogs in someone else’s tsarist/colonial/totalitarian/industrial plan.

http://www.petemccormack.com/blog/?p=1271

Top down solutions imposed by the few, has always been a less than ideal solution.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28455) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Yes - the people once having found their voice - can not just walk away and believe that everything will be OK now that the monsters have been removed from power. The people need to stay involved or just find themselves being ruled by new monsters. Meet the new boss same as the old boss.

[-] 2 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 2 years ago

Wasn't it Goldman who said, "If voting changed anything it would be illegal"?

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Reform, in my opinion, in no longer really an option,. The problem is that reform only attempts to modify an already unequal society, by placating workers with tidbits, which the ruling class is willing to surrender only to maintain the status quo.

The effort should be to end the status quo and move toward an egalitarian society, whether by completely forming a new political party outside of the corruption or by force.

[-] 2 points by JPB950 (2254) 2 years ago

The problem may not be with any particular form of social organization, but with the nature of man.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

Very true. A groups quality can not be greater than it's members no matter how it is organized.

[-] 1 points by friendlyopposition (574) 2 years ago

Truth.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28455) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Yes - a maturity has not been reached. Flaws are allowed to lead in the thinking and actions of society.

Difference being today - I submit in my opinion - is that the people are beginning to wake up to the wide spread abuse by the few - pretty much all at once due to the completeness of modern day communications.

So instead of isolated communities feeling the sting of betrayal - it is all of them sitting up and taking notice.

The question now - is will society learn from it's repeated failure and change direction to a course of health and prosperity for all (?) or will it be a major load going down the toilet again and a chaotic reformation to repeat a sick cycle?

[-] 1 points by JPB950 (2254) 2 years ago

I have a slightly different opinion. I don't see much of an awakening. What you might see is, I think, is only going to be there for as long as the economy is in trouble. If there is a total collapse we may see something new emerge, or a reshaping of a system people are comfortable with. If the economy improves everything will go back to "normal" until the next crisis.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28455) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

The awakening for "most" - is - truthfully - only to today's present problems. The challenge is and always has been to continue the process of awakening to full awareness.

Educators - UNITE.

[-] 1 points by Johnw (44) 2 years ago

Here is an idea that involved people in the process: http://thenewthirdparty.blogspot.com/

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28455) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Thanks for sharing I will have a look at it when I can.

If you have not already - then share it out on other social media.

Food for thought education and outreach.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28455) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Don't like Me? SoK - don't be shy. Squeak-up.


[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (9205) from Coon Rapids, MN 22 minutes ago

Thanks for sharing I will have a look at it when I can.

If you have not already - then share it out on other social media.

Food for thought education and outreach. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply edit delete permalink

[-] 1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 2 years ago

This plan puts the people into the process by giving them veto power in realtime and votasaurus discusses it here :

http://occupywallst.org/forum/common-sense-31-summarydiscussion/

http://osixs.org/Rev2_menu_commonsense.aspx

"Unless the mass retains sufficient control over those entrusted with the powers of their government, these will be perverted to their own oppression, and to the perpetuation of wealth and power in the individuals and their families selected for the trust. Whether our Constitution has hit on the exact degree of control necessary, is yet under experiment."

                 ~ Thomas Jefferson ~
[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28455) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Thanks for sharing that - I will take a look at it - I just skimmed it for now. Kinda burnt out at the end of my day.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

ID confirmation could be handled by web cam

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28455) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago
[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28455) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Good night EverBody.

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