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Forum Post: Shake It Up: Real Solutions to Real Problems with Accountability

Posted 2 years ago on April 27, 2012, 12:03 p.m. EST by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

(there are many more ideas and thouhts in the comments section)

Ok, so lets see what everyone thinks about these. A few of them have come from Occupy Tampa:

  1. When you are elected to an office, you DO NOT move to the state capital (state) or DC (federal). Concentrating our elected officials has two serious consequences:
    • It makes it INCREDIBLY easy for lobbyists to get a hold of them
    • It allows for groupthink to set in very easy.
    • It allows for corruption to flow much more freely
    • It allows them to vote for things, horrendous decisions, with absolutely no chance of the elected officials running into those that voted for them, on the streets.

The last one is probably the most important. They work for us. They need to be afraid of repercussions for messing up. Just like we need to be aware that when we screw up at our jobs ( it would be closer to BLATANLY breaking the rules) then our bosses will have to take action.

  1. Term Limits. I say the shorter the better. Politics is not rocket science. Too many lazy people in there, doing next to nothing.

  2. Monthly press conferences at city centers. Once a month, you have to face the public and explain what it is you have done the last month.

Make em explain votes for war, votes for spying, votes for pay raises, votes for cuts, votes for all the other misguided bullshit they do on a regular basis.

These aren't a cure all. But they would help people like OWS keep a better tab on them and expose them as the frauds they are.

44 Comments

44 Comments


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[-] 4 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

is "groupthink' /!\ what occurs when outside communication is limited

.

congress could be run openly on the internet

so representatives could stay local

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[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago
[-] 2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Another interesting one: Removing all party tags.

MSNBC did a campaign a while ago called "No Labels" in which people were judged on their contributions, free from the stereotypes of the party they represented.

Would removing all party tags allow people to represent the people better? Would it lead to a more democratic society?

Would it help eliminate the peer pressure up there to fit in the club?

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

Absolutely agree with removing all labels. This multi-party illusion is one of the major contributors to the gridlock that often occurs. But, about term limits; that's a sticky one. I know it's a double-edged sword, but it seems to me short terms (at least in regards to the Pres.) leads to short-term vision. Why plan ten or twenty years down the road when they'll be out in four?

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Thats interesting point. What could we do to maintain that long term goals are humored by those who are only in for 4 years (I still think 4 years is a long ass time to get some very simple legislation passed).

[-] 3 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

That's one thing that's been bothering me for years; how to ensure our elected officials enact long-range plans. In fact, as I'm typing these words, it occurs to me that if we were to remove the labels, perhaps this would be a good start. Remove the partisanship.

[-] 3 points by rayolite (461) 2 years ago

By properly amending the constitution we create new law that officials must obey. Article V.

And you are 100% correct particularly for Article V, Americans need to vote principles not parties. The parties are how politics are controlled, but you know that. The problem with trying to vote principles, is that no one has any:(

Without free speech we've lost them. Schools never taught them, held them high and honored them. TV wouldn't touch one unless there was a profit in it. The interenet is for corrupting them in anyway possible, and has lots.

The only strategy I see working that will put Americans together discussing principles is the preparatory amendment for Article V. It is flat out exciting when you start looking at how simple it starts.

http://articlevconvention.org/showthread.php?33-Amendment-By-Layers-Of-Priority-Amendment-Package-Making-CONST.-Intent

Just by accepting 3 things we though we already had, demanding delegates propose them and ratify them, we get exactly what you suggest, away from partisanship. Then, into principles.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

Good post. Thanks for that link; I'll check it out tomorrow. I read a few things about Article V last year but need to refresh my memory. It's intriguing, to say the least. To think we had that kind of power all along and never realized it. These things aren't taught in school for a reason, I think.

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 2 years ago

YES! The education system left out Article V! OMG, thanks for bringing that up. It's true.

I wondered why the local university students were so wrapped in socialist terms back in 2003. Now I know. They were mislead to think that was functional politics here in America. Since the constitution was never taught, socialism in disguise as democracy was easy to sell.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Address issues - YES - so much more easily understood and presented.

Good for ALL(?) Y/N

The KISS principal at work. Eliminate confusion.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

Keeping it simple is imperative nowadays, considering the short attention span of today's youth. And it's getting worse. Too many young people are being conditioned to think that if it isn't 'trending,' it isn't important.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Yes - understanding reality and causal connections is sorely under fire.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

The lengths the PTB have gone to in order to keep Americans stupid and divided are truly astounding. One of the most recent ploys (this really pisses me off) is the pushing of hand sanitizer under the guise of 'hygiene.' It's bad enough they destroyed the family unit and neighborhood connections, now they're destroying that most basic human need, to be touched. Evil. Truly evil.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

It is sick twisted and calculated to the very last degree.

I thank God for the Birth of OWS and all of the movements against corruption greed crime.

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Yes, it would allow us to judge them by their individual actions. Taht is what we elect, individuals.

It would remove this false propaganda, media nonsense on what they each stand for.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

So let us all push issues and fucking kick politics to the curb.

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Yup. Lets see who is doing what, and lets see whats been done on the four major areas:

Foreign policy Tax policy Trade policy Monetary policy

We will find they are, mostly, all lazy bums and need to get he fuck out

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

My 1st concerns would rest closer to home.

Prosecute white collar crime. ( for/against )

OSTA - one subject at a time legislation. Keep good legislation from being fouled by riders. ( for/against )

Campaign Finance reform - get money out of politics ( for/against )

Repeal corporate personhood Citizens United ( for/against )

Regulate Fracking under the clean water act ( for/against )

etc.

These I believe top our list of immediate concern.

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

God damn that was a good thread.....actual solutions to pursue...whats up peeps make some noise

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[-] 1 points by bringourjobsback (64) 1 year ago

generally speaking a good Idea.

Have politicians accountable with employee like reports to their employers -- namely us.

Then we could get into specifics. Like addressing Job loss due to outsourcing by the MILLIONS and the resulting trade deficit that comes with outsourcing.

Trade deficit : roughly $30,000,000,000 / Month With China alone.

That is 30-50 billion leaves the U.S. and goes to China. And where does the Money go? Fairly distributed into the hands of the workers? NO. You know where, more and more into the hands of the ultra mega rich.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Should the FDA, SEC and EPA all be disparged, and replaced with real agencies that are voted on by the public, not appointed by D/R ciriminals?

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Perhaps the positions of the FDA, SEC, EPA and others should be voted on instead of appointed?

[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 2 years ago

All of these ideas would require keeping the current system in place, and it would take a long time to get it done. My theory is that we need to start "being the change we believe in" at the local, community level, working with each other. While we're working on changing the "big world," we could create what we want in a "small world." As long as we are spending all of our collective energy complaining about what is, nothing new is being created. Please check my post"Combine Innovative Ideas and Gitterdone" for ideas that already exist for a new beginning.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Another one: An immediate national polling of all major issues, along with some very basic solutions.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

here's another one: Let 100% of the population vote. Yes, there will be some disgusting people voting. But this bullshit in Fl has got to stop.

Just let everyone vote.

[-] 1 points by forourfutures (393) 2 years ago

Only logical solution is Article V. The proposal at the articlevconvention.org forum prepares for an Article V by making the country constitutional enough to manifest constitutional intent.

http://articlevconvention.org/showthread.php?33-Amendment-By-Layers-Of-Priority-Amendment-Package-Making-CONST.-Intent

The poster suggests returning the usenet among other things. Love it, a global message board with the moderators lawfully held to respect free speech. refreshing common sense legal process that gets the demand met and grievances addressed.

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

The fact that Article 5 has been spread around here, and the people are still not interested, is very telling of America's ability to govern herself,

[-] 1 points by forourfutures (393) 2 years ago

I was just thinking about cognitive infiltration and its effect on what people think about what people are interested in.

Which kinda' confirms what I've been saying, or repeated what I'd heard here about that in November perhaps.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/cognitive-infiltration-web-psyops-methods-and-uses/#comment-106747

I followed Mr. Brown to that forum and was reintroduced to Article V from the proper perspective. Fairly inspiring . . . because I really though I already knew. But the most important part was misinfo. Blew me out! wiki is a cognitive infiltration. Third paragraph down completly disables the "alter or abolish" or "nullification" aspects that existed before 1787.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_to_propose_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution

wiki ERROR "Congress has the power to choose between two methods of ratification: ratification by the state legislatures, or instead ratification by state conventions called for that purpose. "

Mr. Brown pointed that out to critics using the misinfo, and I find people fairly often referring to that wiki disfavor towards our constitution

[-] 1 points by TheMisfit (48) 2 years ago

I like it. it would be a start and many on both "sides" support steps like these.

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Until the people are willing to govern themselves again, we can expect more of the same.

[-] 0 points by john32 (-272) from Pittsburgh, PA 1 year ago

Great ideas. The only other thing I would suggest is getting the money out of politics - where there is money greed will breed. Politicians work to get rich rather than work to benefit us. I've thought about it in two parts:

1.) Take money out of elections. Candidates that recieve a certain percentage of the national vote will all be afforded equal air time and debate time when it comes around - so the people can choose based on the best candidate - rather than which one's campaign has the most money to buy the most air time.

2.) Cap their earnings while in office from all avenues of income (lobbyists, salary, investments - everything) and tie it to the national average in some way. They should know if they pursue a government job they're doing it to benefit our society and the road to riches doesn't lie waiting for you by getting into government.....but loyal service to the people does.

If money isn't remedied, scandals and greed will always reside in washington and give lobbysists and major corps the opportunity to manipulate government in their favor...and away from the best interest of the people.

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Here is a organization that a couple of people who were very involved in OT, but probably a bit too political, are now engaged in:

http://www.fcan.org/

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

How many of the suggestions that are on this thread will be on your ballots to vote on?

Probably none. And that is because we did a piss poor job of organizing and getting new people involved.

When I look at the choices on the local and state levels, there is no doubt on a political level, that it was an abismal failure (Ive been told to be too political at OT, but I refuse to ignore that a political front must be made).

Hopefully the uber politcal that have been with Occupy for a year will start their own groups, and take everything they have learned and start a political movement.

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

GAry Johnson and Virgil Goode each said the number one thing they would like to see is term limits.

Virgil got quite elaborate about how its ALWAYS about getting re-elected. Always. Wheres the next fundraiser. Whats the competition doing. Better stay on my toes.

Install term limits. 6 years. Thats it. GEt in, do your job, and then get the hell out.

And no retirement package for getting in either. Get in, get out, and go back to work.

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Instead of this Obamacare penatly/tax crap, just expand medicaid. Done.

No need to hundreds of pages of loopholes.

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

DC doesnt like simple answers. They would rather package it as something special and put in 1000 pages of loopholes and money changing schemes for their friends..

[-] 0 points by jgriff (6) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

nice post :>)

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

100% Full Audit of the Federal Reserve. And a 100% full audit of all war spending.

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

No other talk of solutions?

Hmmm....Maybe I should attack a few people, get em riled up :)

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Another possible solution to help regain control of the country:

http://www.alldc.org/press/lda_wg_report_04-09-12.pdf

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[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Well, what do the 3 amigos have to say on here?

Absolutely nothing. Nothing at all.

Some want change. Others want the status quo.

Get going, Educate. Let people realize that this is a 1-2 on a scale of 1-10 as far as what we should have. Settling for 1s and 2s is for losers. This is not what this is suppose to be like.

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Healthcare- eliminate this fascist pile of shit Obamacare.

Simply expand the financial requirements for medicaid. Done.

No need for more paperwork or 1600 pages of nonsense. Simply change the finance levels for qualification.

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Completely demolish the Tax code. Scrap the whole 76,000 pages of it. Start over again, fresh.

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

The State of Change: http://www.ballot-access.org/

Great site, check it out.

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Another possible solution: Make voting a national holiday. It certainly can't hurt, right. Im not sure of the level of benefit of this, but every last bit helps.