Forum Post: Why not outlaw Fox style "news"? Canada does.
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 30, 2011, 8:48 p.m. EST by Manug1
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Fox News COULD be a thing of the past if America would implement the same law that Canada has. "... a licenser may not broadcast....any false or misleading news." Years ago Fox News Canada was rejected by our CRTC regulatory agency, to broadcast Canadian news. They were not allowed to report in Canada, period. We do get Fox News (USA) on cable, as we do many other American cable and broadcasting networks, but we do not get anything remotely close to Fox News for our own news, as it is illegal, period. Maybe this is something the OWS movement could act on? Get legislature enacted that is like Canada's anti-misleading-news laws. Here is a good site that sort of puts together the various policies and laws: http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2011/2011-308.htm
I'm seeing articles like http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/276-74/5123-fox-news-lies-keep-them-out-of-canada . But however gleeful people may be to hear Fox denounced for lies and propaganda, I just cannot accept censorship as an answer. We need to recognize that the effective monopoly of cable companies - combined with the de facto end of broadcast TV after its replacement with an almost imaginary digital distribution system - is what places such outlets in a position to be believed. I think that it is better to make a canny and limited alliance with laissez faire capitalism here to ensure that people have unrestricted access to many different sources of information ("net neutrality") competing freely in a well-informed marketplace.
These people who have commented below misunderstand the situation. It is COMPLETELY possible to ensure the news is news. Back in the day there was real news. Today, all the broadcasts sound alike, and all the broadcasts and controlled by the big and powerful. NEVER in today's world, do you find some news person who brings in some important news story the big govt and corps don't want out.
They control the media.
If the USA did something like this, which would be great, but obviously impossible with this US govt, i would recommend that all the lying stations are allowed to broadcast, but not allowed to call themselves "news stations" and reserve that for real news.
this is ALREADY done by governments when it comes to incorporating a company. For example, if you want to incorporate a company, there are laws about what you can call your company, in every state in the US. For example, words like "bank", "trust" and "agency" are reserved for certain types of companies and they have to be authorized to use those words in their name.
Otherwise I could start a company called "Bank of the States", and then pretend I was a bank and rip people off.
So the idea is perfectly sound, and completely enforceable. Sure in this country anyone can broadcast. Stopping that is unconstitutional.
But we can stop these broadcasts from calling themselves "news", when its not news.
in fact, my life of the past ten years would have been completely different if there was "real" news in America. But, as everyone knows, the News is more like a sit come than news today. The reason my story never hit the big time, was because govt and corp greed has control of the networks. if the news got out, some big companies would be in big trouble.
It's an excellent idea, and it is enforceable. Only problem is, we probably have to completely replace the House of Reps, and senate, with new people to get something like that passed.
"NEVER in today's world, do you find some news person who brings in some important news story the big govt and corps don't want out"
pffffttt!!!! LMAO!!!
so tell me joe100, who exactly are the big govt and corps people who wanted these stories to get out:
-valerie plame incident
-abu ghraib
-halliburton contract abuses
-no wmd's in iraq
-the army thrill kill teams in afghanistan
please explain how those stories got published when "They control the media."
as for this...
"in fact, my life of the past ten years would have been completely different if there was "real" news in America. But, as everyone knows, the News is more like a sit come than news today. The reason my story never hit the big time, was because govt and corp greed has control of the networks."
...here's your forum. tell your story.
Read this:
http://www.guardloan.com/content/WritOfCertiorari.pdf
And my computer was confiscated by an unamed "US Govt Agency Beyond UPS Control" when I shipped my computer. You can find the invoice in this 500 page doc....
http://www.guardloan.com/content/Appendix-ii.pdf
Here is where the info is from: http://www.oneredpill.com
http://www.guardloan.com/content/
no, I'm not going to check out any of those links.
if you can't answer my question, you can't answer my question. oh, well.
I am an inventor and patent and copyright holder of critical internet technology that everyone on the Internet uses everyday and the big corps and govt paid off federal and supreme court judges, my own attorneys, etc. that's all I am gonna say. You can read the case files - you don't have to read them all, you can just skim.
I'll check out your links if they are about your story and your case.
will you answer my question about the news stories I mentioned?
Those stories usually come out in wiki leaks and other ways, and THEN and ONLY then do they hit the big news, I think.
Yes, you are correct. Some stories they don't want out do get out. But there are lots that don't get out.
I have not watched news on TV for over 15 years.
"Those stories usually come out in wiki leaks and other ways"
no, those stories were not leaked. the mainstream media broke them.
"Yes, you are correct. Some stories they don't want out do get out"
Thank you. you have no idea how hard it is to get these dumb spoiled kids to admit something so relatively minor.
True - and I ain't no kid.
How do we know that mainstream media let them out? It may be the case that these stories were already going out, and then, after they realized they could not cap it, then the media released it. We don't know. But either way, mainstream media is controlled. They have meetings to decide what gets out and what stays capped.
Guys like Jesse ventura, those guys try to get news out. I would like to hang out with him.
So many people here don't want to say, "hey, you are right, my idea was maybe wrong or needed tweaking - I learned something - thanks."
If someone disproves what I think, and I change my mind and agree, then thanks is in order - then I learned something!
There is a lot bad attitude out here but some good attitude too.
Usually if these bad attitude forum people agree with you, and realize their idea was incorrect, they just stop posting. I prefer to say "thank you" to people who give me new ideas or help me learn.
"I ain't no kid"
sorry if that came across like I thought you were. quite the opposite, in fact. it is the kids who cannot concede even the most minor point.
saying the media is controlled...I just dont buy it. too many outlets, too much indy media, impossible to control.
I loved it when jesse, an independent, beat the dems and reps in the MN gov race. I was a fan of his as a kid watching wrestling. but when he came out as a 9/11 truther, I lost all respect for him. the truth movement is despicable and more full of shit than any movement to come along since the moon hoax clowns. I don't hate much, but I hate the truth movement. the last thing they want is the truth. they want to be told they are right. nothing more.
"If someone disproves what I think, and I change my mind and agree, then thanks is in order - then I learned something!"
so true. it happens to all of us and the mature ones see it as a learning experience. but far too many cannot do this and see any admission of being wrong as some kind of condemnation of their very existence. I think it is mostly the kids who were "educated" in the self-esteem movement. they cannot handle reality. it is pathetic.
glad you're an older guy like me who played games where score was kept, when teachers said the dreaded words, "incorrect" and where 1+1 never equaled 3. somehow we're still alive despite such harshness. ;-)
Here here.... thanks again for your words.
I am writing this again for the others:
Don't personify ideas. Just because an idea is stupid or bad or wrong, does not mean the person who thought the idea was stupid or bad or wrong.
It is inappropriate to say "You are wrong" No, there is nothing "wrong" with "you". My idea may be wrong, but not me.
And when people say to someone "you are wrong" it's like a personal attack. Much better to say "the idea is wrong", and people don't get so mad.
And I learned that from the big corporations when I was working for them.
Thanks again!
That is awsome news! WOW!
When the government controls what people are allowed to believe then you have a very dangerous situation. You may not like Fox news and I don't really like them either but do you understand what it means to "outlaw" something? It means that if they do it then you enforce the law violently. You really think it's ok to force with guns somebody not to say something that you disagree with? That is scary. Why is there this idea that the very government that is corrupt and bailed out Wall Street is somehow going to perfectly control what people say on the news without any corruption?
Free speech bro. Check it out.
Yeah, don't outlaw it, just stop calling it a "news" channel.
Well if you must, but people wont go along with it and the supreme court will vote it down. Then there is the internet consider Gleen beck tv and if you ban that people will just encrypt the video and go underground information now days is hard to stop, even in canada. You really have to change opinions and win the debate.
Wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_News_Channel#Canada
Fox sucks in my opinion, but that's my opinion - I'd never support making Fox news illegal though. There should be no laws against opinions. It IS illegal to knowingly report false information. But it should NEVER be illegal for members of the media to have opinions. There are left leaning and right leaning talk radio shows too - should that be illegal?
I agree - I don't watch Fox News, but if they are reporting "opinions" as "facts" ... then that is wrong. Let them say what they wish, as long as they make it clear it is opinion, and not necessarily fact.
Bonjour from Canada! You are wrong! Sun News baby!!!! Google that shit!
more left wing fascism from ows.
what a sad, sad joke this (bowel) movement is.
do you also want msnbc outlawed? they are, after all, a lame attempt at a left wing FOX. what about the NY Times? NBC, CBS, and ABC news? outlaw all them, too?
how silly and absurd. I hope you're still in your early 20s or younger.
Why do you assume that msnbc, the ny times, et al are our religion? A common theme among "occupiers" I have heard from and spoken with is that media in general is becoming very misleading. I feel slants whenever I turn on the tv or visit any of their sites; I feel that something is fundamentally astray with our accepted sources.
My point being, I wouldn't be particularly sad to see any of these go. Censorship may not be the answer, but we need people to stop paying attention to crap on either side masquerading as fact, or stop either side from displaying opinions as fact.
"Why do you assume that msnbc, the ny times, et al are our religion?"
I don't. why do you assume that I assume that?
"My point being, I wouldn't be particularly sad to see any of these go."
then we agree on that. and what you wrote after it.
you know, you can ask me something and I will honestly respond rather than you telling me what I am thinking and being wrong about it.
my point was, why just single out Fox? what do they do that the other networks don't do? seems like we agree on that.
Okay, well whether you intended it or not, your post insinuated that OWS supporters are left wing nuts that merely want to censor their opposition, not to mention equivalent to shit. That was unsurprisingly offensive. By comparison I would consider my remark measured.
Now, why Fox? Good question, I would have to say it is because fox seems least coy about it, and frequently touts particularly unpopular positions officially or not ("pepper spray is practically a seasoning"). That fox is unashamedly rallying around the republicans currently in congress, that is the extreme officials mostly committed to blatant obstructionism, currently raking in a single digit approval rating, not moderate conservatives, marks fox for public criticism on several levels. I would consider them, in light of the current situation, the most immediate threat.
"I would have to say it is because fox seems least coy about it"
you mean you prefer a media outlet to be slanted and act otherwise, assuming you are too dumb to notice it? I don't.
by your logic, how is this...
That msnbc is unashamedly rallying around the democrats currently in congress, that is the extreme officials mostly committed to blatant statism and collectivism, currently raking in a single digit approval rating, not moderate liberals, marks msnbc for public criticism on several levels. I would consider them, in light of the current situation, the most immediate threat.
...any less true than what you wrote?
I don't think there is a difference.
maybe it comes down to how much govt you want. I want a lot less than what we have. not zero, not law of the jungle, not child labor/jim crow/women barefoot and pregnant, nothing extreme. just a lot less, especially at the federal level where they have assraped the 10th amendment beyond recognition. is your position that you want more govt? (I'll safely assume we both want better and more effective govt)
Okay yeah I read you. Don't agree with the first part, but I can see we have common ground and I'll focus on that. My view is that we have a slightly broken government system, but a very broken collection of politicians. The path I see leading forward is removing money from politics, to be specific forcing campaign finance reform, as much as we can. From there, we can clean house and adjust government to make it better, whatever that comes to mean :)
"My view is that we have a slightly broken government system, but a very broken collection of politicians."
very, VERY well put! I hope you don't mind if I borrow that. excellent.
I'm borderline small-l libertarian, but I have come to believe in publicly financed campaigns. (it still feels weird typing that!)
these cretins have given us no choice.
once a certain % threshold of signatures are secured, all viable candidates split a relatively small amount of money for staff, printing, advertising as they choose. each gets some free network air time (public owns it, right?) to make their plans known. mentioning the other candidate will be cause for removal from the ballot. no attack or negative ads. we're paying for it, so we can be real dicks about what candidates can and can't talk about. private donations are forbidden and the penalty for taking or giving is 10 years in prison. history has shown us that the vast majority of people who decide to run for public office are semi-decent but horribly flawed at best, despicable scumbag racketeers most of the time. they need to be reigned in like the savage animals they are. term limits are a must. sorry baby, too much putrid bathwater. these rules will make the bad actors not want to run.
I lean much more towards laissez-faire than against, but no industry in america needs more strict, harsh, Draconian regulation than elections and politics.
Yep i believe we are about on the same page now. I am glad to see your passion and would look forward to working with ya to make this happen! :)
Left wing fascism is an oxymoron. If you knew anything you would know that.
Well, he does know something so hence must know that. If knew nothing then how could he write anything. You on the other hand is a no wing bat fighting your own words and you have no idea you just made yourself a fool by writing what you did.
haha ok buddy. Its pretty pathetic that you chose to analyze that.
It is on the house. Now, lets grab a pizza. Order mine with ansjovis and extra garlic and a tint of chili.
and some apepperspray on your apizza too. Seriously Fox news needs to go... I feel so much pity for the people that get sucked into their evil propaganda tubes when they tune into Fox day in and day out. It has been scientifically proven that Fox News causes brain damage. and If you don't believe me I urge you to leave your television unplugged for an entire week straight and read books instead. You will notice a significant increase in critical thought processes and an overall improval in the functioning of Limbic system of the brain, specifically the Hippocampus..
Actually watching any tv or computer screen for more than 30 minutes at a time causes slight depression. Its the reason why so many people just sit there all day because they get too sad to get up. But yea I know what you mean.
Been there done that and in fact I have not been wathing TV for 5 years now When I do watch it it is to confirm me that it is all the same nothing changed. Believe me, TV is so bad. I know so dont worry. I am a poor Dane living in Thailand hence my bad english.
Right on guys! I wish more people would have this mindset. It's so much more productive and very important to live your own life in the felt presence of immediate experience. Instead of wasting time watching other people have fun on T.V. and trying to emulate their habits and mannerisms...
I acted the same way many years back, then the Red Hot Chili Peppers, System of Down, Frank Zappa and many others told me to throw away my television and slay the beast. I am much happier not having to chase my tail in a endless system of consumerism and greed.
Now if I could somehow convince the furhers to legalize the free market of cannabis...and by free market I mean grow as much as you want, and wherever you want. There are a lot more uses for these special plants than the media would have you beLIEve...
Spot on. Every so often but very very seldom there is something on TV of interest. But it is getting farther and father apart like years now.
Canbis, yes, indeed. CIA and the government is controlling the trillion dollars business in afganistan and elsewhere and it is a huge market going via jerusalem being transported everywhere by drug cartels with governments knowing about it and in fact controlling it and then they win twice fighting it and millions of counselors and doctors then make money. Drugs and canabis would be fine if free and regulated by the free market not illigalized as it is now. Water can kill to as well as can sugar. Too much is never good.
Yeah, so instead, our only other option is to buy these ridiculously overpriced pharmaceuticals. The idea behind many of these medical professionals is to falsely diagnose patients, and 'treat' them with medications that are created to fail the patients in the long run. These scammers are literally sucking the life out of many of the elderly, and other diseased peoples for profit. Notice how 70% of the commercials and advertisments on Fox News and other media outlets always end with
"Ask your doctor..." or "Check with your doctor to see if this right for you..." as if the 'almighty omnipotent' doctors are actually out there to benefit the public. NO! They are in bed with their big pharmacy and big insurance companies having a nice laugh at the general public...
And yes, I do know there are also some (very rare) honest doctors out there...
The TV ads are the poor uneducated hard working ignorant mothers last hope of survival and she will jump to this solution because it is on TV.
I have the solution for the drug problem also in my solution for a humane society and I will have it online in 2012 and make a website about and post links here ans elsewhere and then see if some can be used.
We are living in a world of sales people and companies living for the minute. No long term considerations. It is here and now society and it is killing us all. I believe most of the mental cases are not really mental they are as sane as anyone but the doctors are pulled into the scam etc etc. Noone is saying stop.
The rich and powerful "enjoy" drugs and prostitutes and gamling and they behave like insane but they play there golf and they get away with it all because they are among a selfregulated asylumn namely there own type.
Watch a video with Bush sitting in a kindergarten waiting while 911 is happening... the first thing I thought was, this man is insane. When I listen to Rumsfelt or Halibuton guys they are really insane but they are on top of it and nobody dares to shout, look, the emperor has no clothes on.
It is time to call it out when it happens: the emperor has no clothes to break the silence and then people will start to dare to speak. One has to start and you or anyone can say it. The problem is it might backfire because people are mindwashed to shut up. But keep up the pressure and I think we are getting there to the point where people will use their mouth and help to speak the other truth when it is spotted head on.
Haha alright. Sorry I didn't realize English wasn't your first language.
I am a poor dane. Sorry about that. Living in Thailand but that only help me get chilisprayed more often. It bloody makes me cry.
"Left wing fascism is an oxymoron," said the dumb kid supporting a protest full of anarchists and socialist/communists.
how gullible and dim-witted you are.
That's the best you can do? Name calling? What's next, the "sticks-and-stones" chant? You call him dim-witted, that's a classic case of the pot calling the kettle "black".....
you're just name-calling.
Can you please explain how fascism could possibly be anarchism, socialism or communism?
It sounds like something bad, hence it must be "of the left".
why not ask one of the many socialists and anarchists at any ows camp to explain it to you. those are, after all, your people. you won't accept my answer, so why would I bother?
(ok, now you make a snide comment that I really can't explain it and declare victory. do anything, but don't address that ows is full of anarchists and socialists.)
If you weren't such a pussy you would admit that you were wrong. I have no problem with anarchism or socialism. You are so ignorant you think that anarchism means throw bombs and destroy things. You should try reading a book.
as expected, you're all foaming at the mouth with anger and fury.
and I am laughing at you.
"You are so ignorant you think that anarchism means throw bombs and destroy things"
now I am laughing even harder at you. of course I know it doesn't mean that (not even close), but why let facts and reality stop you when you're all lathered up and pounding your keyboard back into oil, jackass?
mooohooohooohahahahahahahaaaaa!!!!
Not really. You are rather bizarre. If you aren't getting paid to be on here you must have a sad life.
your attempt at acting calm is not convincing. we both know you could fry an egg on your forehead right now.
and look at how me and my sad life have you all enraged and engaged. yours must be even worse, scro.
Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity...that's who you sound like. A simpleton. A dolt.
To enforce all American media to not broadcast anything "false or misleading"...? <:sad laughter:> Best wishes, but, I can't see that happening here anytime soon, honestly.
The whole media structure here is corrupted by its corporate ownership, including the supposedly "Public" television and radio.
We need to roll back Clinton's "Deregulation" of the broadcasting market and reclaim the media -- (by dismantling the horrid FCC, for one thing, as it's current structure is fascist) -- have citizen-owned channels; sort of like Democracy Now but more so.
I thought it was RayGun who deregulated media
and the fcc - how can they be fascist when the repelican scum have gutted every regulatory authority in the US govmint by either a) underfunding, b) legislative bullshit, c) direct corruption and payoff from private oil drilling companies and their industry groups.
you must be a repelican . . .
Whew, your paranoia is disheartening.
I'm not partisan in the least. I'm completely against Reagan for starting us down this slippery road to tyranny, but to deny Clinton played a major role is willful blindness.
He may have been our most intelligent, capable President, but that hardly means he wasn't corrupt and a puppet for corporatists.
am I paranoid?
I mean, I could be. Or I could just be really cynical and jaded.
Or maybe you are really good at using the right language.
The FCC is fascist?
Must be you really liked Janets jewelery . . . and are holding a resentment - I can't imagine where else you get the idea of fascism relating to the fcc.
They can't seem to do much about racism spewing out of Faux nuuz. It's taken a huge public backlash to get even a remote curb on their bullshit.
fascist.
eyah
of course you're cynical. you're a leftist. you think every person (except you and those who think identically) are all helpless idiots who need the never-ending coddling and protection of people like you who know better about everything. that is what the left is all about, looking down on people and deciding you're so goshdarn wonderful and magnanimous that you must help them with everything by codifying every last possible human activity and setting up rules and regulations for all to follow.
and, of course, the millions and millions of people like me who aren't zillionaires and dont want your "help" are just brainwashed ingrates who have the unmitigated gall to tell you to mind your own fucking business.
mind your own business, busybody.
consumer protection? that's obviously a bad idea in your eyes
ending predatory lending practices? ditto
how do you feel about global warming? Ah, doesn't exist - no need to curb emissions . . .
and the influence of business on congress? Just the cost of doing business . . .
piss off
more all-or-nothing idiocy from the Left...
"consumer protection? that's obviously a bad idea in your eyes" - wrong
"ending predatory lending practices? ditto" - wrong again.
"how do you feel about global warming?" - too politicized to be "settled" but you probably don't notice the politics or the second batch of emails that show all kinds of bullshit shenanigans. means nothing, right? suuuure.
"and the influence of business on congress?" - congress' fault, not wall st's. congress swears an oath to the people and the constitution, hedge fund managers do not. congress makes the laws, and the executive branch can arrest, detain, prosecute and imprison. wall st can't. you won't occupy the fed govt because the president is a leftist and the senate is controlled by the left wing. so you find the next best thing, no matter how off-base it is. so transparent and so weak.
grow up.
the Senate is hardly controlled by the left wing - as the recent appropriations bill demonstrates. When there are 61 or more Senators who vote as Sanders and Leahy do, then perhaps you will be correct.
You made the claim that the left wants to regulate your behavior - and that is just nonsense. It's the right who does that. They want the telecoms to be the gatekeepers of the internet - at a profit.
shit - we all heard that constant drumbeat of fear during the admin. of bushite.
We know that new innovation is often vulnerable - success can depend not on the quality of the product so much as the advertising - but they want to eliminate tax incentives to alternative energy - they prefer the greatest transfer of wealth in the history of the world continue unabated.
"the Senate is hardly controlled by the left wing"
the dems control the senate. they have the majority. that is a fact.
"You made the claim that the left wants to regulate your behavior - and that is just nonsense. It's the right who does that."
they both do. the dems want to control your money, the gop wants to control your behavior. I have no real worries that jesus will be crammed down my throat, that porn and drugs won't be available to those who want it, that abortion will ever be make illegal. so I worry less about the moralists attempts at control.
on the other hand, money is taken directly out of my paycheck. dems want to tax every fucking thing that moves. the cost of govt is wildly inflated by public employee unions who somehow need protection from the same people progressives want to run health care (talk about scary!). the health care scheme will cost far too much and is simply awful legislation. "buy this or else!" is clearly unconstitutional. so I am much more concerned about the left's attempts at control.
"but they want to eliminate tax incentives to alternative energy" -- the sooner the better! how can you look at such blatant crony capitalism (solyndra, et al) and fake economic models and STILL support it? what the hell are you thinking?!?!
the govt has no business making loans to campaign contributor's companies and the internal emails show they knew what horseshit this was and did it anyway.
on the other hand, I am glad GM was bailed out. I am not an absolutist. GM being bailed out was something obama should be proud of. surely there are details I do not like, but if GM went under, shit would be much, much worse.
Sure - and they exhibit much less party discipline than the repelicans. Not only that, any party with less than 61 votes cannot be certain that they will not be subject to
filibuster
Have you heard of this? Do you know this term, this filibuster?
look it up.
and another thing...
since you posted:
consumer protection? that's obviously a bad idea in your eyes
ending predatory lending practices? ditto
is it fair of me to throw these at you:
continue the drug war? - you must LOVE that!
keep gays from marrying? - makes you feel all tingly inside, doesn't it?
100,000 ways for politicians to pay off their pals? - keep that going strong, right?
...catch my drift?
That could be! Could be as well for me. But I do think you're being paranoid as well.
I may have been a little strong in my language, but I don't believe the way the FCC is currently set up is anything remotely like the Watchdog Role it's supposed to be, to protect the freedoms of the airwaves for the little guy. They restrict freedom of all people, most of all the small media, and work as a Guard Dog for the elites to shut out dissenting voices. Seems pretty fascist to me.
demonstration
examples
links
"the repelican scum have gutted every regulatory authority in the US govmint"
every? how utterly ABSURD!
you obviously do not own a business.
There is something called the internet!!!
And we're losing that too.
There's also something called journalist ethics, which are few and far between on the internet.
There are a lot of good people doing good work on the net. . . but does it get noticed for the most part?
The worst (Murdoch, Time Warner, Beck & Breitbart's jaundiced smear-sites, et al.) still have the biggest megaphone.
We need to reclaim the lines of communication from the corporate masters, and the internet alone just won't suffice now.
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I don't think you could get an author or editor anywhere to support you. The first amendment was written when papers were more biased and news was more slanted then it is today, but they still thought it would be a good idea. You have to get moving politically to change things, make new amendments, whatever. Otherwise all your ideas are wasted.
We have to face that there are a lot of people that don't look at the world the same way.
I completely agree. Let's just trash the 1st Amendment just because Red scum want us to. Get bent Marxist filth.
Please to prove how Fox lies more than the major news agencies to include CNN and MSNBC. And newspapers.
and these righteous cultists want to set up the new world ???
that is just too damn simple. I'm all for it. Anyone who isn't is crazy - and needs psychotropic medication . . .
slizzo . . .
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