Forum Post: The Next Phase of Occupy Wall Street: Occupy the Universities
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 4, 2011, 7:05 p.m. EST by sophiaomni
(289)
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Once upon a time, our colleges and universities in the United States were forces for progressive social change. I'm not sure that's the case any longer. As someone who has been on the inside of higher education now for over 15 years, I see our universities more and more becoming tools of the corporatocracy.
Recently, my own college decided to toss 2/3s of the entire philosophy collection of our library (apparently the ability to think critically is no longer required in the United States). This compelled me to write a post about "The University as Corporation:"
http://www.michaelsrusso.org/2011/11/university-as-corporation.html
Needless to say, the post didn’t win me any fans among our administrators (or even among many of our faculty, for that matter).
I really do believe that the next phase of Occupy Wall Street has to involve an effort to radicalize students and reclaim the academy for what it was originally intended – to provide the kind of education that actually empowers students and teaches them to think critically about our social problems. I really don’t think that we are doing this any longer.
I’d like to know what other people think about this. Have American colleges and universities become so corrupted by American capitalism that they are beyond hope at this point?
I went to school for engineering. I have never heard of radical engineering and I am not sure I would want to drive over a bridge that was created by a radicalized engineer!
As a professional engineer working for about 35 years now, I can definitely say engineering is more than just running calculations and making technical decisions. One finds the world, and that includes technical things, are run by elements beyond any reason. The author of this post makes a very true observation; our Universities pander too much to big Corps, and are churning out too many techno-idiots. .. that is brain dead techno-idiots whose usefulness is essentially for big Corps, but otherwise useless when it comes to doing something useful for society.
It would do every engineer good to take a few classes in the liberal arts; philosophy, psychology, sociology, political science, etc. ......to learn a little about the realm of "unreason."
if people didn't waste their life away in front of TVs watching men play with balls and fake people do fake things we could all have the equivalent of 6 phds, learn how to play multiple instruments and sing, and actually experience life by being a part of it.
instead all they want is hard on pills, crappy entertainment and to satisfy some predefined role such as "cool buff tough guy" "sassy and witty hot chick" "artsy fartsy this or that", well you know .. most buy the clothes and other shit that go along with that, retarded jewels and shit...
no wonder Americans are fighting to get immigrants out of the country, they need the dum dum labor jobs like picking fruit in the sun, cleaning shit and what not.
Indians and chinese are taking all the jobs that require a brain... most Americans don't have...
Every engineer is required to take those courses. At least where I went to school.
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That is true. I was required to take a few such courses myself. I think though, at least at the time and place when and where I went to school, many engineers did not take their liberal arts requirement seriously enough; it was more like finding some easy courses to get the requirement out of the way so as to get on with "real engineering". What I meant to say is that liberal arts is truly holistic with engineering, and should be treated that way.
Shifting subject; I took economics as my liberal arts elective. We were taught to think in the "Milton Freedman" frame which when getting on into life, one finds Freedman economics is total bullshit (bullshit being used here as a technical term by the way.) Only thing Freedman economics does is it supports the Corporate line. I surmise that is why it is taught. Unfortunately, too many people who were taught the stuff actually believe it, and I believe that is one of the reasons why our economy and world are in such a mess. I think, as the original forum post implies, is that we ought lobby our universities to not teach that sort of rot, and focus more on truth.
The problem with liberal arts and humanities courses in college is that you basically spend 4 months reading one book with one professor so you get one point of view maybe two.
Since college I have read dozens of books on history, philosophy, economics, astronomy, earth sciences… I know a lot of proplr that pretty much stop learning after college.
I doubt he's talking about the STEM people jumping ship to go read Thoreau and drink (at least I really hope he isn't because that would be a disaster) but I do agree with him that it is important that our STEM people get a better sense both of politics and of people. I honestly don't know what a liberal arts degree gets you as far as return on investment would be concerned; it would probably be better to take a few classes in philosophy or literature or whatever works for you and then (unless you really want to go into one of those fields) pick up a degree in STEM or business or something that will make them their money back.
I say the social sciences because essentially when your best and your brightest are the least involved in politics and government there is a net loss to the country. I mean, I go to MIT, and we're one of the more apolitical campuses out there because our different tastes and specialties don't always leave time for keeping up to date and developing rational and informed opinions on the state of the nation. A basic mix of polisci and economics classes for all undergrads would be a great place to start.
That said, it is important to give pretty much all undergrads a balanced overall education, including grounding in the social sciences and to some extent the humanities right alongside a basic grounding in the sciences and math. I feel like a general overall liberal arts education does need to change so that it reflects an overall solid grounding for what you want to do for a living afterwards (i.e. a semester of bio, a semester of chem, a year of physics, and math through linear algebra and differential equations right alongside whatever humanities requirements you want to impose).
Sure, engineering students take humanities classes. I took courses in philosophy, world history, Shakespeare in performance, anthropology...
I'm doing intro to polisci right now and we're currently simulating a Congressional committee. The simulation is proving quite educational, namely because it is such a pain in the ass to get anyone to agree on stuff. The best part is that these guys aren't really like this, but since it was set up to mirror the breakdown of the 112th Congress a lot of them are roleplaying obstructionists who pander to corporations and the wealthy...
If you think engineers like this system you've never read Dilbert lol
I certainly don't think it would hurt an engineering major to be able to think critically. That's all I mean by radicalizing students. If all they are are cogs in the machinery of corporate capitalism, then they are not really helping anyone.
be definition, engineers think critically. I believe you are confusing that with motivation.
They have a certain technological expertise. That doesn't necessarily mean that they can think critically or have wisdom.
critical thinking is a disciplined process to achieve an action and result. this is a foundation component of engineering.
I'm impressed by your definition. If your definition is correct, then I concede the point to you.
My only objection is that, I think, critical thinking probably involves a bit more than engaging in "a disciplined process to achieve an action and a result." The goal of critical thinking should be to arrive at the Truth as a result of deliberate reasoning. It's not necessarily what an engineering student is trained for.
absolutely !
This act of vandalism reminds me of "Mayor" Bloomberg ordering the trashing of the around 5,500 item library in Liberty Square during the brutal repression and attack on peaceful protesters. Shown on TV screens across the world was the Nazi-like attack on Americans exercising their constiutional rights. In your own case, I'm sure the shades of Plato and Aristotle - among others - wept when your own college committed a similar outrage. May WYBI (whateve you believe in) help you and your fellow students.
That was a beautiful expression of solidarity, and I thank you for it!
yes.
put all course work online and make for free, that's what our tax dollars should go to. redefine a broken system focused more on profit that a valuable education.
the universities are a joke. there's no teachers there. only researchers and administrators
At my institution, there are as many administrators as there are faculty....So you are not too far from the truth!
there's no parking for the students at my U. You have a 15 minute walk to some classes. There's also no place to study in quiet. There is however parking right next to the administration buildings of which there are 3:1 to the classrooms. Administrators park on the periphery right in front of the building which is totally useless to students and then the students get their exercise for the day by hiking to classrooms in the inner campus.
I bet that there are also many more administrators on your campus than faculty too!
I once proposed a totally egalitarian parking system on our campus....No reserved parking for anyone. First come, first served. It got absolutely nowhere because the administrators wouldn't even consider giving up that perk. I think we have the same battles all over!
Good. I see your U is preparing you for real life.
Great post.. Not beyond hope. I think this is just another area where enough people have not spoken up. There has been this argument for the eradication of liberal arts. And kids listen to this stuff.. they listen to their role models. If no else is speaking out, the other side of the argument will become extinct.
I certainly hope that you are right. It seems that those who want to do in the liberal arts are succeeding, though.
George Carlin tells it like it is about education!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGL8FEMc378
Loved the clip! Thanks for sharing it with us!
np you can find more here:
www.knockknockrevolution.tumblr.com
Of course they don't want students to think critically of our system. This would ensure a revolution from the masses and they do not want that at all. Brainwashing is much more effective without free thinkers stiring the pot.
Word. And this country is as divided and brainwashed as any.
Destroying the Dept of Ed and getting rid of No child would be good starts.
Agree
Its been happening
I hope it is, but I don't see it at any of the colleges and universities that I'm associated with!
Once upon a time our colleges and universities were forces of education, where people EARNED degrees that were enriching to themselves and society, in that order. They produced the scientists and engineers that designed and built the machines we used to kick Germanys ass TWICE. That's a force for social change.
I have no problem with people working hard to make a better life for themselves. My problem is with people who only think about their own economic self-interest. The so-called "Greatest Generation" were willing to sacrifice their own interests to fight fascism. I seriously doubt that we would be able to get that level of commitment from American's today. They have been far too corrupted by a libertarian ethos that tells them to only look out for themselves.
Education--especially higher education--should be a corrective to this kind of foolish notion. But it usually isn't.
Agreed. However, in relation to this post I don't think there is anything wrong with economic self interest.
Just a note. WE didn't kick Germanys ass. In the first war we helped nudge a already tottering empire and in the second war the Soviet Union and Great Britain kicked there asses. We helped.
college became more about profit than higher learning. universities should be free to anyone who wanted to study. If proof of gaining knowledge exists then let it happen. what is the worst that could go wrong?
Don't let crap Austrian "economics" into the universities. It is designed for the 1%, and it is NOT economics. Been a lot of talk about it recently, I am sure because of KOCH BROTHERS. It needs to stay where it's at, delegit.
definitely!
We are all going to hell in a hand basket.
All we can really hope for is a good seat.
I plan to be on the express bus!
Maybe we can charter a cruise !
Yah, we have the internet, shouldn't we put free online education from pre school all the up to medical degrees, law, engineering, science, computers, etc???
why does anyone have to pay for education anymore??
we should build a resource website for all educational purposes and make it free. then people just need to go write proficiency exams and get actual experience by observing and working real world, labs, etc. duh...
higher education for all.
I like to think that face-to-face student-teacher interaction is still the best way to education people. On-line programs may be useful for basic instruction, but you can't use it to teach people how to think deeply. But I do agree with you that higher education in the 21st century should be free.
yah, i agree with you as well that interaction with other students and a teacher to turn to for guidance is very important in some circumstances.
A great idea already being used by MIT, Columbia and many other universities is digitizing classes and archiving lectures for streaming. Students also have the option to go to class or watch the lecture and complete assignments from anywhere.
here is a link to MIT open course materials for example. http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/
It is a great way for people to learn who can't attend the actual universities. I've few a few of these lectures myself and they are wonderful!
Well it didn't get you any friends because you were threatening what they knew right?
I think people often get angry when you challenge them and they know that their position is basically unsound. If you really are doing the right thing and know it, you generally are more tolerant of dissent. Does that make sense?
If you know you're right then why would you tolerate dissent in the first place? If you know you're right then wouldn't you get angry when someone challenges you?
I think that, if you really know you're right, you try to educate people who disagree with you. Why would you get angry with them for being ignorant? It's only when people are unsure of their positions that they resort to anger or violence. That's my opinion, anyway.
Maybe not anger but annoyance at someone who is ignorant may make more sense.
If you use the work "frustration" than I will agree that that is a legitimate response to those who seem willfully ignorant to you. How's that for a compromise?
This is a tough order, though maybe not impossible. Students and their parents are on the hook big time for that diploma and the hoped for reasonable life that should ensue. It's not like the Vietnam days when tuition was less, even a taxi driver made a reasonable living and students were getting drafted into a nuightmare illegal war. I do wish you well.
That's why I think that ultimately students and faculty will be forced to work together to change the direction of higher education. The students are being squeezed economically and the faculty are being oppressed by administrators concerned only with the bottom-line. At some point or another this will bring them to join forces.
http://occupystudentdebtcampaign.com/our-principles/
Whether you are a student or not you can still sign the pledge. There are categories for debtors, faculty, and supporter.
A campaign was started to end student debt by not making payments. Hundreds of students have signed. When we reach 1 MILLION signatures, we will stop making payments on student loans.
Whether you will do it or not is another story, but at least it will show lenders that we do not agree with what is happening with student debt in this country, and how it is affecting young people
Andrew Ross, a professor at New York University, started the campaign. “The campaign aims to highlight the necessity of federally funded institutions of higher education, interest-free student loans and a requirement that for-profit and private universities reveal their internal finances.”
There are a lot of suicides all across the world that are hushed, but the fact is the financial crisis is very real and it is affecting families worldwide who cannot bear the thought of homelessness, suffering and eventually death for their family. Let’s stand together for our brothers and sisters, and take this pledge.
This article talks about suicides from student debt
http://hypervocal.com/politics/2011/american-horror-story-student-loan-debt-and-suicide-over-wilted-pancakes/#
Yeah, you've definitely been off campus for a long time. But even 15 years ago, like today, college campuses are usually a hotbed of leftist activism unparalleled in the off campus world.
I don't see that in today's academy. The faculty members may vote Democrat in elections, but I think that they are basically conservative in their social views. At least at my institution, most of the faculty actually seemed disturbed by OWS. That definitely wouldn't have been the case in the 1960s.
Hello,
I consider myself a deep thinker though never formally educated.
I would like to share some thoughts I've been working on and perhaps invoke dialogue.
Regarding civilization. Specifically economy.
I believe I have developed an idea that would allow the government of a civilization to print an unlimited amount of money ( for all labor and training ). This idea would totally unleash the han potential.
The idea would also eliminate the current tax collecting budget system.
The idea requires one serious hurdle that we must either all agree on , or be democratically implemented. I would guess the latter.
The idea:
It works on an hour- coin monetary system. Where every hour of labor earns one hour coin.
The hour coin will expire when spent. Example: to build an automobile requires 2500 hours. So when purchasing the automobile 2500 coins will be deducted from the purchasers account. This prevents hyper inflation. Now this is a collective system therefor the persons building the automobile had already been paid.
So , this unlimited hour- coin will supply enough opportunity for everyone.
Compared to the system of today this would be an improvement ? Yes or no. ?
Of course this creates a whole hosts of questions and curiosities.
Please give this idea some thought. Share it with your philosophy class.
I would like to hear your results.
Thank you
I have to confess that I am definitely no expert when it comes to economics or monetary policy, so I have no idea whether you idea is even feasible or not. The problem with any creative ideas to solve our political and economic problems is that most of our politicians and the vast majority of Americans are suspicious of the novel ideas. Just to give you an example, it makes no sense at all to use pennies any more. They cost more to make than they're worth, but no one would even consider the idea getting rid of the penny, because they're so used to it.
And your idea is infinitely more radical than that. I think that it would be a very tough sell, even if it did make sense.
Well, I have to say I am disappointed.
That's not to say that your idea is not a good one. I'm not equipped to judge it because I lack the expertise. I do admire anyone, however, who is not afraid to propose a bold idea. And yours certainly is bold!
I thought someone of a philosopher advocate would enjoy some fresh material. For thought. ? Do some critical thinking.
But Thanks Anyway
The liberal democrat professors are making too much money.
I thought American colleges were already a breeding ground for left wing whacko beleifs, you want to up the ante. Man that is some serious sheet
I don't know what colleges you are thinking of. I really see no evidence that most college are breeding ground for leftist ideology. They've become businesses, like any other business. That's the real problem.
I'm sure that you support the idea of having students be exposed to a wide range of opinions and to be able to understand the world they live in. How is that leftist?
I went to college, and I was constantly surounded by a bunch of left wing fools. I learned pretty quick, never let your teachers know that your not a white man hating hetersexual, especially in the English department. Your just a leftist nut job, I am sure you never met a person on your campus that was not under the opinion that Sarah Palin is the dumbest person alive.
I don't think that Sara Palin's the dumbest person alive. I just think that she's pretty damn dumb.
I'm sorry about your experience in college. That certainly wasn't mine either as a student or as a teacher.
I don't think Mrs. Palin is dumb. She is laughing all the way to the bank.
If being able to dupe people into thinking that you are politically profound and profiting from that is a sign of genius, then SP is definitely a genius!
How do you know that she is dumb? Does she have a science czar that openly advocates forced sterilization of people? No wait thats our president, the genius that went to Harvard, yet no one sees his grades. Sarah Palin is not dumb, if the media wanted to make you seem like an idiot it wouldn't take much to do.
Come on. I think that you can make a decent case that Mitt Romney or Newt Gingrich are bright. I may not agree with their ideas, but I certainly wouldn't call them dumb. But would you really want to see the country being run by Sara Palin?
The problem with the Republican Party today is that, among the rank and file, there is no respect for intellect. That's why someone like Palin is so popular there.
You know we think the same way about Obama and the dumbest people in America voted for him, thats a fact.
I have my problems with Obama, but it has nothing to do with his intelligence. It has to do specifically with how he has sold out to special interests in this country. Do you really think that Sara Palin is as smart as Obama?
thank you for this post .
I believe the main reason in common now is to gain wealth beyond their dreams .. and not so much to educate , learn and better the world we live in as a community , as a civilization.
where will we evolve to if this gets left out .. I am so glad you have this consideration
I think you are absolutely correct. We used to educate people to become better citizens. Right now we educate them to make money on Wall Street! That's not going to solve our global problems!
how you apply your education is up to you.
Yes, but don't we all have at least some obligation to use our education and training to promote justice and the common good?
legal? no. moral? depends on the person. as I said, how you apply your education is up to you.
Many students are still being "radicalized" in our so called higher education establishment. At UC Davis the entire English Dept. Has demanded that the campus police be immediatly disbanded and NO police of any kind will ever be allowed on campus. Pretty radical to me. Personally I think it is a great idea on one condition: that all of those faculty leave their gated communities and live on that campus.
It may be happening at some places, but I fear that the vast majority of students are being trained for nothing more than to be consumers. But I do agree with you that the faculty have to become radicalized.