Forum Post: Tea Party Fascism Explained
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 23, 2011, 10:33 a.m. EST by metapolitik
(1110)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Between Occupy Wall Street, in New York, and the other cities it's spread to, as well as the October 2011 movement that just began here in D.C, something seems to be happening in this country. Earlier at Freedom Plaza Chris Hedges, Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter and author, tells us what this could lead to.
http://metapolitik.org/blog/chris-hedges-explains-fascism-of-tea-party
Thank you. Chris Hedges is a great speaker and thinker. He reminds a little bit of Michel Foucault, which is really elite company in my mind. If people cannot see the truth of what he is saying, they are plainly misinformed and undereducated. Chris Hedges synthesizes many threads of criticism of our system that heavyweight intellectuals have been making for decades.
Read the history of the past 40 years in the United States and you will understand. I can easily recognize those that know and those do not, especially on this board.
Agreed.
It sounds like you are trying to police this board.
The Global Financial Crisis occurred because, initially, government intervened to guarantee the massive debt investment banks were incurring, the debt was incurred on a fraudulent system of selling incurred, high risk debt, as low-risk debt.
If the government hadn't intervened, the crash would have been a lot smaller, and about 20 years ago.
It's very popular to say that more controls need to be put in place to regulate the banks, but if the market was properly free (not falsely supported by the government), the world would not be where it is now.
Agreed. Well ~ Foucault. :)
The tea party was co-opted by the right the #OWS is being co-opted by the left.
Smash this system of left right fake part political democracy...UNITE with direct democracy
99% Dont want fascism left or right
Amen
NWNO!
What does that mean?
I am not anti-religion - but look at the people who believe Obama is not an American - not a christian - who believes sadam had wmd - who believe unions are evil - who believes voter fraud is a problem -
who believes debt is the problem - who believe the rich pay enough - who believe and obey the koch and the fox. They are the same lemmings who follow the lies of falwell and robertson and the other religious fanatics who have brainwashed them since birth- BELIEVE AUTHORITY - DONT REASON BELIEVE A BOOK - DONT THINK the world is 6000 years old - dinosaurs walked with people - We all have and are entitled to our myths - but when the myths are used to the detriment of our brothers - we are truly evil. Ever since the 1% gave us Ronnie, they have brilliantly deluded the lemmings - who have been trained not to reason - with Orwellian lies. yes - I am anti-fanatical religion and I believe the large number of lemmings religiously following the1% dictators are the heart of the problem - where would Hitler have gotten without his brown shirts?
So perhaps "anti-fundamentalist" would be a label you could subscribe to.
Fundamentalist Religion
Fundamentalist Capitalism
Fundamentalist __ (?)
...That's basically how I describe myself.
yes - excellent - thanq
But as so, you must then label yourself a fundamental non-believer.
perhaps more concise - fundamental reasoner rather than believer and no - that does not mean my reasoning is always correct
Fundamentalism is an interesting word that we apply quite regularly to the antagonist but I don't know if it's an apt description. If it is, then Americans themselves are fundamentalists because we certainly share a core set of beliefs.
I think a fundamental reasoner would eventually conclude, in light of the 29,000 plus religions in the world, all compromised of very similar components and characteristics, that religion itself is evolutionary - there is no other possibility. And I don't think that indifference or denial equate to disbelief; rather that there is a reciprocal, some lessening of happiness, if desire goes unfulfilled. As the pendulum of popular emotion swings, this unhappiness will seek its equilibrium.
I don't say this as a fundamental religionist; I say it as a fundamental reasoner. Contained within us all is also the ability to challenge and dissent because some fundamental belief systems are fundamentally evil - they threaten our survival.
very interesting. My take is a bit different.
I would say that a fundamentalist "religionist" does not reason. Their "fundamental" foundation is a book - outside of themselves. My foundation ( I hope ) is my reasoning self inside of me.
They totally believe the book written by man. The book that says it is a sin to work on the sabbath. The book that says homosexual activity is a sin. The book that says to kill the infidel. The book that says it's the Jews fault. The book that says it's the intellectual's fault [Mao]. The "book" that is interpreted to - self interests are more important than human rights. History has shown us movements - with leaders and lemmings - the leaders stealing power and money - and the "fundamentalist" non-reasoning lemmings who make it possible for their leaders to succeed. Would Torquemada have succeeded in burning the Jews without the fundamentalist trained lemmings? Would the Kochs succeed without their ( mostly fundamentalist Christian ) lemmings? Would Hitler have succeed without his lemmings. Would Randall Terry succeed without his "Tiller Killer" lemmings?
Take Torquemanda's lemmings an one example. Would Jesus, would real Christians, would reasoning human beings - who made the effort to think - to reason - burn people because they were of another religion?
I know a man who is anti-abortion - because his religion tells him to be. Politically it is his ONLY issue. Obeying his religion on this one issue makes his his voting SOOOO easy. He does not have to think about how we tax people, or the wars, or jobs, or veterans. He does not have to reason or think about anything - he votes his single religion inspired FUNDAMENTALST issue.
I don't say ALL fundamentalsts dont think or reason, but the foundation of all of these "movements" is a book [ or document ] used by a tiny number of evil leaders to convince lemmings to be their "slaves" -
by following - not reasoning.
I guess I've gone far enough from OWS - time to tie it back. When you look at the tp and rp - almost ANYTHING said by one could be said by all - and they are TOLD what to think by the rushes and the ruperts and the kochs - AND THEY VOTE - that is their real strength.
The glory - and aggravation - of OWS - is it is so diverse and it is so difficult to set unified demands. We reason, we think, with diversity. From communists to constitutionalists to libertarians.
Perhaps our simplest "demand" or "goal" to satisfy all of us: "MONEY OUT OF WASHINGTON - JOBS TO THE PEOPLE!"
Well obviously someone's got your mind because you are not applying reason. You're now a member of a one issue party - the money out of Washington party (because the rent's too damn high) - and you plan to vote accordingly. Isn't that the same thing, another one issue abortion party? Maybe not...
And historically you are absolutely wrong about Reformed Christianity - reason was applied very liberally to to all facets of exegesis in America. And when it finally was all stripped away, as we moved towards a more common secularism, the basic tenants of exegesis versus reason, left us with a Constitutional Republic.
How can you know where your mind is, culturally, if you do not know where it's been? Or why you feel the things you do?
There have, for example, been many cultures throughout history that believed in the sacrifice of the first born. It was considered a moral "good." And there is evolutionary precedence for this. We, however, consider it a moral "bad." How did we arrive at that conclusion, that human sacrifice is evil? The same can be said of every facet of American thought - we arrived for a reason.
I'm somewhat of a libertarian - I don't believe that human behavior needs to be microscopically regulated through the militaristic force of law. Because there is this thing of conscience and community censure. On the other hand I do believe some behavior needs to be regulated and we either accomplish this through violent and arbitrary means, or, we allow "issues" to adopt force of law.
I think some of your anger is misdirected because we ourselves are fundamentalists, possessed of core belief as "fundamental." We celebrate an individualism... but that individualism can be self-defeating if we fail to ascribe to the association of similar belief.
On the other hand, I like all the "We the People" sentiment that has been generated so I'd say keep the discussion alive, and for the present remain an association, focused on some mutual happiness, rather than a party.
Fundamentally anti-fundamentalist?
Sure, that describes me pretty well, illusion of paradox aside.
Do you really believe that those that created the fed or all those who have incorporated and grown corporations were influenced or directed by God? Do you really believe its all right wing fanaticism?
Do you know of a single person that subscribes to all your above listed beliefs? Because I certainly don't and that's one of the greatest fallacies of this thing of "party."
Oh and by the way, humanoids did walk with the dinosaurs; in fact, they walk with them to this very day.
I do not believe koch, etc are part of the religiuos lemming movement.
I believe they have, ever since tricky dick's silent majority, skillfully led the lemmings off the cliff.
Read or watch - "What's the Matter With Kansas?" Religion is not corporatist - but it CAN train lemmings. And lemmings love to be led. Check out Frank Schaeffer http://www.alternet.org/rights/144054/rachel_maddow_interview_with_former_evangelist_frank_schaeffer:_christian_right_is_%27trolling_for_assassins%27ex-evangilist
Certainly, I dont want lemmings following me - or my ideas They are my ideas - every thinker should have is own. BUT I do hope that many will ACT and contact their congressman. with their own ideas
I did see a dinosaur yesterday - a turkey. .
Ok, I'll buy that. Does that sound too capitalist?
How is it in the best interest of OWS, to alienate the tea party?
It's not; this is actually a well organized attempt to unseat the popular movement in the interest of protecting a minor voice.
Now that is the truth
While I agree that alienating members of the TP is not in the best interest of #OWS... I would hate to see #OWS compromised by an 'anti-tax' message when our focus should be anti-corporate.
I agree 100%. I think you're just defensive just like I am
It's hard not to be with all of the trolls on this board.
It is a rather confusing message isn't it? End the oppression of the elitist and increase taxes... somewhat absurd, don't ya think?
Not at all.
Taxes are supposed to be used for the PUBLIC good.
Not for private interests.
I'm sorry, but right now we need to work with the tea party.
I don't think so.
They want corporations to get their way and they campaign vehemently for that cause.
We want to reign corporations in and make them more responsible.
Two completely polar / opposed viewpoints.
Not to mentions that fact that they are racist, homophobic, capitalist, fascists.
No, they can be moved.
moved?
And yet: the Tea Party has captured State Houses all across the nation and are effecting massive change at the local level...change that will filter up to higher levels. ---they got permits to protest. went home at night. There was no civil disobedience. No streets were blocked. The cops just stood around and watched all day.
Yet the effected massive change. before people dismiss them, you might want to analyze a successful movement, and learn just what they did.
they didn't stop with protesting, they ran for office....How many of us are willing to run for local office?
In this respect I think you have a point. While I don't believe that "the movement" is a front for Soros or any other liberal bogeyman I do think that it is important to turn to action. The catch is doing so without selling out like the Tea Party.
Originally the Tea Party was one thing and many self-described tea partiers that I have spoken with agree with many of the positions being advocated at OWS. However, that being said, groups like the Tea Party Express are much more controlled and fit into the existing big-donor funding model. As such they are more circumspect in my opinion. I would argue that what we need is to connect with tea party members and let the official organizations who are focused on pleasing the Kochtapus fend for itself.
Helps when you've got millions in funding from the Koch brothers
We got Soros and Michael Moore...We got our millionaires too.
pointing fingers and calling names isn't going to cut it. Know your enemy. Know why they succeed so you can fight them!
--PS, I have NO idea how I bolded the text. Apologies.
You probably copy / pasted bold text.
Nope. just typed it in. My gramar would be better if I copied it.
The puppets being managed by the 1%. Love you Soros and Michael Moore. Did we lose our way?
Ah, crypto-doubt
Answer: No
Ah, crypto pseudo endorsement
I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country. Thomas Jefferson
http://metapolitik.org/blog/elites-foolish
Wow! Chris hits every note. Were broke and the Wall st. thieves want more , no demand more and are moving ahead to get more.
You'd think that with the rising wave of populism, the 1% would see the writing on the wall.
But nope... Business as usual.
I have a pal that's a 1%er and here's his take. "Were all ants just ants , easily stepped on." Total contempt.
There are certain species of ants that can strip a cow's carcass down to the bones in just a few minutes.
Reminds me of this cartoon:
http://metapolitik.org/blog/elites-foolish
True and red ants can sting the crap out of you before you can even react.
Red ants... You mean Republicans? (lol)
How about Republicrats?
Nice!
How about Recraplipubs?
Decraplipubs? :)
LMAO!
I almost can't even pronounce that one!
...Problem with this one is, it subconsciously infers that Democrats "DeCrap" our "Pub"
But the truth is, they are crapping it up alongside the GOP.
Can you imagine Mitch McConnel or Harry Reid trying to say that one when reading some lame ass speech?! :)
What a great prank that would be to swap out their cue cards with the updated labels!
His explanations, and discussion of the issues are crystal clear, and easily understandable. This guy is right on!
Agreed
No one is flooding Africa with millions of non-Africans, pushing programs of national destruction and saying, "Whatever you do, don't protest, especially the nationalists.
"No one is flooding China with millions of non-Chinese, pushing programs of national destruction and saying, "Whatever you do, don't protest, especially the nationalists."
Of course not, the people who say these things ONLY say them about EVERY White country and ONLY White countries. The people who say these things say they are anti-racist. What they really are is anti-White.
Anti-racist is a codeword for anti-White.
Spoken like a true racist.
No surprise this would show up in the Tea Party thread.
Good speaker. I disagree somewhat on his assessment of the Tea Party because in its inception it was merely a "movement" or but a loosely organized association of like minded people... much like the OWS, there were no clear leaders, no hierarchy, no specific demands.... It was a mentality... When it gained momentum sufficient to attract that attention of a Party, it was infiltrated and usurped. Many can no longer share their message.
Bottom line: TP is owned (and/or) co-opted.
Bottom line: the sentiment is not.
Which sentiment?
That taxes are bad for America?
That the market should be 'free'?
That so called 'laissez faire' Capitalism is the bestest, truest, free-est structural framework of economic activity?
That Barack Obama is a Kenyan, Muslim, Totalitarian Socialist?
These are the sentiment that I most often hear coming from the Tea Party.
All of which have been called into question.
Taxes are slavery in that the governing body owns a portion of our labor (see Lincoln). (And Jaffa...)
The Market should not and is not, nor shall it ever be, entirely free. Tariffs and regulation will always serve to promote and protect, either on this side of the ocean or the other.
Capitalism is anything but laissez faire... but it does require flexibility.
Nobody knows who Obama is but we're quite convinced he is just another corrupt party head that is owned, and that's not exactly what we had hoped for... We had hoped that he would be highly successful, but there are just too many opposing forces in America vying for power at any cost.
You can question the Tea Party all you like but you will not marginalize the overall sentiment of the populace or the prevailing belief that survival as a world of equal opportunity requires fiscal and economic responsibility.
With the exception of the first statement (Taxes are slavery in that the governing body owns a portion of our labor).
...I actually agree with everything you wrote here.
As for taxes being slavery:
What about private ownership of the means of production? (i.e. Capitalism). This strikes me as a glaring form of sanctioned slavery.
The "governing body" should never be a parasitic class of privileged people. Whether that class consists of politicians or CEOs, it's a recipe for slavery either way.
Haven't you ever been to McDonald's? I mean isn't that hamburger a means of production? It produces energy and life sustenance. The car you drive to work, is a means of production... Nah, I see nothing at all wrong with private ownership; in fact, I am unable to perceive of any other possibility.
The body politic should not be so self serving; I agree 100%.
No, actually:
The hamburger is the product... The kitchen is the means of production.
The car is the product... The assembly line is the means of production.
You should really educate yourself before you enter into these debates.
Privately owned means of production... versus state owned means of production. We are the means of production and I'm definitely not about enslaving myself to the state. Good luck with that.
Do not insinuate that I am advocating state-run anything.
On the contrary, I support worker-owned collectives.
But hey: Nice try, attempting to frame #OWS supporters as fascists.
No, not fascists - communists.
Either way, you are trying to frame us.
Frame you? have you committed a crime that I am no aware of? This is debate...
The Tea Party was started by Ron Paul supports which no one in the high jacked faction of the movement will admit. Because he wants to put an end to all military bases outside the U.S. Which the Neo-Cons do not want to see an end to cause they have a vested interest in using the U.S. military to force their will across the globe. Watching this video I find it disheartening that he believes the things he does about the Tea Party. I do agree that some have jumped on the bandwagon that have totally different ideals then what the founders of the movement believe with the wars and some other statements he has made about racism within the Tea party. Although he almost agreed with everything that the Tea Party once stood for and still does at the grass roots level. Also OWS and the grass roots Tea Party have lots in common. If you think otherwise you should look deeper into the issue and stop looking at the Koch Neo-Tea Party. He was dead wrong on the Tea Party's origins. So is wikipedia. The Tea Party was formed after Ron Paul supporters raised 6 million dollars on Nov. 5th 2007 for his campaign. The message from the Tea Party has been lost due to this Koch guy as I fear OWS will as union leaders further advance in the OWS ranks.
Either:
A) You are deliberately spreading disinformation... Or:
B) You are badly misinformed
Either way, it's bunk.
The Tea Party was started by the Koch brothers with the deliberate intent of gaining public support for lowering taxes on corporations and for further shrinking regulation on the financial sector.
And it worked.
You are still totally off base do more home work. This is what they want becasue no one wants the Tea Party and OWS joining forces. Koch is a socialist don't be mistaken. That is what its called when you socialize loses. Which they are all for. Don't let them divide us.
What about the Fascism that has been present in this government, it is a system of Patronage, form of Corporatism and Mercantilism fostered by this government through the instrumentality of the Federal Reserve. Favored Corporations receive regulatory preferences and are able to sway regulators to craft regulations that blot out competition and create markets where there is little opposition, all due to this Governments Patronages. That is Fascism, I wouldn't concern myself with the Tea Party since they have been Co-Opped by the Neo-Cons, the problem is within those already in Power, those of both the Republican and Democratic Parties, those who have the Power to create and maintain such a system of Fascist Patronages.
Don't you mean STARTED by the neocons?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koch_family#Political_activities
No, not necessarily, at first the Tea Party appears to have been a spontaneous response to various issues, particularly taxation, it was only later that the Koch family became involved and the Neo-Con Republicans saw the advantage of infiltrating the Tea Party Movement. I dare say that the same is happening to the OWS, there are powers that see an advantage to using whatever medium available to influence the power of that movement in a favorable way to their cause, whatever that might be.
Even if this is true, that fact that it's something Billionaires feel the need to hype / support / control / invest-in should raise some major flags.
Pay your goddamned taxes!
You mean like Soros and the support he is funneling into OWS? Should that not be a RED-FLAG>
I have to ask, now that you said "pay your goddamed taxes" just how much of the Tax Revenues do you think is paid by the top 1%, or the top 10%? Would it surprise you to learn that the top 1% pays 29.1% of all taxes collected in this country, that the top 50% of earners pay over 38% of all taxes collected in this country and that those in the middle class pay the rest, that the bottom 50% pay virtually nothing and at most 3.4% of tax revenues?
Unlike with Club For Growth and Americans for Prosperity, I've seen little evidence of this with OWS. Please provide concrete evidence instead of repeating the troll propaganda.
You mean like the Alliance for Global Network, a Soros financed group, that is funneling money into the OWS to the tune of $453,000.00 as of Oct. 19th. Would you like more....the documentation is pretty clear....OWS is receiving funding from a multi-billionaire.....WHY?
How about the other Soros funded organizations that are showing up at OWS, such as TIDES and some indirect links between Soros and Adbusters, and others as well.
For a movement to call for the rejection of the uber-rich's robbery I find it hypocritical that they would then turn around and accept, either directly or indirectly funding from such a scum as Soros.
I'll take that documentation now please.
Several sources are reporting it....including Reuters...look it up. jeeze
Agreed...
If you are going to post statistics, you should be prepared to provide links to supporting documents.
The TEA Party was stolen by the Repubs just like OWS is being stolen by the Dems and their power brokers. When you allow part of the 1% to move in and slowly assert themselves, you lose the movement. Not too much longer before we see an "Occupy Caucus" in the Dem party.
We're not going to let the Democratic Party hijack this movement.
They have proven themselves time and again to be another mouthpiece for Wall St. and I get the distinct impression that most of us in this movement are painfully aware of that fact.
Chris Hedges has some interesting this to say about the Democrats in this interview with Alyona Minkovski on RT:
http://metapolitik.org/blog/chris-hedges-explains-fascism-of-tea-party
The TEA Party said the same thing about letting the Repubs take over, but the money talks too loudly these days and that money controls the message. The unions, Soros and the Dem party have already started to make their moves and will soon position themselves to be the unofficial spokespeople for the movement. I hope it doesn't happen, but history does not bode well for OWS.
Based on the fact that anyone with even a modicum of cognitive prowess can see clearly that the Democrats are a big part of the problem, coupled with the fact that Soros is no slouch in the intellect department, coupled with the fact that Soros has written extensively on the subject of protecting an 'open society' (as opposed to a closed, fascist society run by elites)... I find it difficult to believe that Soros would continue to support the Democrats.
While he may be a billionaire and a member of the 1%, he does not strike me as being terribly mendacious or duplicitous.
Much has been written about this:
(the last link is the most telling regarding Soros' stance on this)
http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/10/13/on-george-soros-occupy-wall-street-and-reuters/
http://metapolitik.org/blog/toward-global-open-society
http://metapolitik.org/blog/soros-capitalism
Soros the inside trader who nearly destroyed England just to make more money doesn't strike you as mendacious or duplicitous? Sors, who was one of the very first hedge fund managers is OK with you? Don't let his BS about an "open society" fool you, he is only interested in his own wealth and power and he depends on useful idiots on the left to support him while he donates to their pet causes in the hopes of turning a higher profit in the end. When is there enough with these people. Supporting Soros from the left is just as bad as supporting the rich on the right.
Well, perhaps this is true and perhaps Soros is in fact leveraging the left as "useful idiots" - I honestly don't know and there's no reliable way to find out.
However, I will say this:
Whether he is being duplicitous or not, his criticisms of capitalism and his description of the 'open society' that we all want are spot-on.
He can support the Dems all he wants (assuming that's the case), but my point is that - thanks to this movement - I don't think that US Citizens are going to fall for it this time.
Let's hope I'm right.
As long as we're on the subject of Republicans and Democrats playing 'good cop / bad cop' on behalf of the financial sector, I offer this for your consideration:
http://metapolitik.org/blog/stein-launches-run-for-president
http://metapolitik.org/content/time-green-president-draft-jill-stein-us-president-2012
http://metapolitik.org/blog/radical-center
what a tard Hegdes is.
Using slurs like 'tard' does not help your argument any.
OK he's confusing the republican party with the tea party. Why would there be a tea party if everyone was happy with the republican party the way it was?
There's no confusion.
TP is a deliberate attempt by Republicans to recruit the radical right.
There certainly was no interest in recruiting constitutionalists, libertarians and/or Ron Paul supporters. This philosophy has been and still is religiously attacked and marginalized by the republican establishment.
This is the establishments tactic to polarize the country, so that no real change can be made. And I'm afraid you've fallen for it.
I would rather not get into a pissing match as to history, time-lines and who came first (TP or Koch)...
Bottom line: TP is owned (and/or) co-opted.
Hardly. The tea party began during the Bush administration. It consists of fiscal conservatives who were unhappy with both parties for the size and expense of the government(and especially TARP). Nobody was representing fiscal conservatism at the time. The republican party did it's best to squash the tea party. No tea party candidate was endorsed by any establishment republican except for Jim DeMint. Reluctantly, the republican party realized that they had to deal with the new trouble-maker tea partiers, so they co-opted them. The same thing is happening with OWS.
I would rather not get into a pissing match as to history, time-lines and who came first (TP or Koch)...
Bottom line: TP is owned (and/or) co-opted.
you don't want to have the debate because you're wrong
I am happy to debate with you but endless hair-splitting about the origin of the Tea Party gets no one anywhere.
Even if they did start out as a grass roots movement (which I highly doubt), the day they took money from the Koch brothers was the day that their hands were soiled and their message was rendered meaningless.
I wish they would have sent me some of that money. How come no one bribes me? The tea party is huge and it doesn't just represent one group but if any one event started it, I would say that it would be TARP. We had a problem with our representatives not listening when we objected to the bailout. So in 2010 we got rid of a bunch of them. In 2012 we will get rid of more.
That is the real tea party and I'm offended when people tell me that I am no more than a republican. It isn't much different than racism or any other type of prejudice. It looks like people are still believing what the media says and I have to set the record straight.
I respect where you are coming from and if you have been unfairly judged, then I sympathize.
But keep in mind, if you align yourself with racists, homophobes, xenophobes and anti-Muslim religious fanatics you will be judged accordingly.
where do you get your information from? Karl Rove might do this, I don't know but he is a republican establishment tard. So is Hannity, Limbaugh, Fox etc. They were all about an entirely other thing until the tea party's numbers got so big. Then they all instantly switched and jumped on the bandwagon to keep their jobs.
I'm telling you, they do not represent the tea party. The tea party is anti-fascist. The republicans are the fascists and that's the whole reason the movement began.
I would be surprised if the average Tea Partier could even articulate what the word 'fascism' means
ad hominem - lose!