Forum Post: Suggested initiatives to take back control of the system
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 9, 2011, 5:08 p.m. EST by TomPaine
(44)
from Fort Collins, CO
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
We have a globalist capitalist economic system that isn't working because pirates have seized control. We don't need to founder the ship and build a new one from the wreckage, we need to take back the wheel.
1) bring drug profits out in the open by legalizing all drugs and destroying the criminal industry
2) regulate and tax derivatives to turn our markets back into capital investment operations and stop the casinos
3) kill the military/industrial and security/prison complexes and turn the capital saved into rebuilding the United States infrastructure to make it the most (rather than least as it is now) energy efficient economy on earth
4) quit subsidies to oil companies and tax their profits to turn oil revenues into higher energy efficiency (under the current model oil companies just take their profits and go looking for the last barrel of oil on earth--witness the horrifying oil sands project and the boondoggle pipeline).
With these 4 initiatives alone we would destroy the basis of cronyism, corruption, and pirate "capitalism" that has stolen our government.
i'll just link to a post: http://occupywallst.org/forum/require-members-of-congress-to-divest-holdings-of-/
May I suggest 2 tracks?
Short term- do something that could generate quick results, build some momentum. It has to be an issue that will resonate with most supporters. So try starting with one of your most popular themes- Stopping Wall Street Greed. Unfortunately, this won't happen by employing only passive tactics. Be proactive. As you know there have been many egregious (many would say illegal) acts committed by certain employees of large well known financial institutions during the early years of the past decade. The only realistic deterrence is enforcement and jail time. Pick one case and pursue it. By that I mean select one of the more notorious instances that occurred during the past few years.
Then figure out which government agency (FBI, DOJ, SEC, State AG office, etc) was responsible for oversight of the firm at the time the act was committed and then demand why there was no investigation. Then tell the story as you go. Publish the results of your interactions with the enforcement agency if you believe they are not being sensitive to your needs.
Think of it this way- let’s assume there's a football game in which the refs refuse to call any fouls, the result will inevitably be a steady escalation of cheating, fouls, infractions and retaliations, leading inexorably to a point when the game gets totally out of control. That's what happened within certain parts of the financial system over the past decade. The regulators and oversight agencies refused to do their job- and as a result - the country was given a bill for more than $1 trillion. It seems someone now has to force these agencies to act. You may find that there are many lower level employees at these agencies, not yet captured the industry they’re supposed to oversee, who would be pleased to see that people are paying attention. It could also provide necessary political cover for them to pursue cases more aggressively. (This will allow you to directly engage people in the cause- in addirion to those who are campimng out in the park)
This will take time, a lot of smart people and much research. From what I’ve seen so far, you seem to have significant access to all three types of resources.
Regardless of the direction you choose to go, there are many more out there who truly admire what you’re doing. Good Luck!!!
PS- a good blog to use as a reference source would be "Naked Capitalism" (hopefully you’re already well aware of it).
This reads like a form letter and not a response.
May I suggest 2 tracks?
Short term- do something that could generate quick results, build some momentum. It has to be an issue that will resonate with most supporters. So try starting with one of your most popular themes- Stopping Wall Street Greed. Unfortunately, this won't happen by employing only passive tactics. Be proactive. As you know there have been many egregious (many would say illegal) acts committed by certain employees of large well known financial institutions during the early years of the past decade. The only realistic deterrence is enforcement and jail time. Pick one case and pursue it. By that I mean select one of the more notorious instances that occurred during the past few years.
Then figure out which government agency (FBI, DOJ, SEC, State AG office, etc) was responsible for oversight of the firm at the time the act was committed and then demand why there was no investigation. Then tell the story as you go. Publish the results of your interactions with the enforcement agency if you believe they are not being sensitive to your needs.
Think of it this way- let’s assume there's a football game in which the refs refuse to call any fouls, the result will inevitably be a steady escalation of cheating, fouls, infractions and retaliations, leading inexorably to a point when the game gets totally out of control. That's what happened within certain parts of the financial system over the past decade. The regulators and oversight agencies refused to do their job- and as a result - the country was given a bill for more than $1 trillion. It seems someone now has to force these agencies to act. You may find that there are many lower level employees at these agencies, not yet captured the industry they’re supposed to oversee, who would be pleased to see that people are paying attention. It could also provide necessary political cover for them to pursue cases more aggressively. (This will allow you to directly engage people in the cause- in addirion to those who are campimng out in the park)
This will take time, a lot of smart people and much research. From what I’ve seen so far, you seem to have significant access to all three types of resources.
Regardless of the direction you choose to go, there are many more out there who truly admire what you’re doing. Good Luck!!!
PS- a good blog to use as a reference source would be "Naked Capitalism" (hopefully you’re already well aware of it).
These proposals are all quite possible (even probable), and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management Group of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves. Consequently, I have posted the Strategic Legal Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures
Join
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
if you want to support a Presidential Candidate Committee at AmericansElect.org in support of the above bank-focused platform.
The means--
http://www.callaconvention.org
http://www.conconcon.org
Whose money is behind this is the first question I always ask.
Thanks. Will read.
Who prints the money, OWNS YOU.
Add some more regulations, hahaha! And some more! Handcuff yourself!
Really, why do you want to hand your master another whip to flay you with?
I assume you are a libertarian of some sort that indulges in the kind of magical thinking that getting rid of the Fed will change everything? We had corruption, depressions, and undue influence by corporations on Washington long before the Fed.
Nothing like the first Great Depression, caused by them, and nothing like the Greater Depression just now getting underway.
You can't get something for nothing. The seed corn is long gone. Welcome to the next level. It's going to be very interesting. As more and more people lose their jobs and homes, they will ramp up their demands to be taken care of, at the expense of -- who? The people who've gone bankrupt? I will not feed the beggars that brought this down on us. My magical thinking is planning ahead -- something that looting savages can't understand. I will be ready for them when they come for me.
Us old guys almost remember some of this.
what would be your mechanism to implement these initiatives?
here's mine: http://www.jeffblock2012.com/Summary.html
Good luck!
thanks, but you didn't answer my question - how would you "take back the wheel"?
I thought that was the whole point of OWS--to bring enough people on board with an understanding of the nature and extent of the corruption that we can change the laws. I wish you well in your efforts.
the OWS has no power to change laws. The 4 initiatives you present require Congressional approval. OWS is just one more form of "if only we shout loud enough...". You seek approval from the same group that you say has pirated the ship? My favorite quote about Congress "you can't expect someone to understand a problem when their paycheck depends on them not understanding the problem"
It has no power yet. I remember when Nixon couldn't hear himself think because of the protests outside the White House every day. Permanent protests change minds. I've seen it in the 60s and I expect to see it again.
If you're referring to Vietnam protests, the protesters had a very specific demand (get us out of Vietnam) and they were protesting directly to the person (Nixon) who had the power to do so.
Same, although a little fuzzier with MLK. "Equal rights regardless of race..." became difficult for Congress to ignore - there's really no counterargument.
OWS might get their act together, but right now there is little direction (to use your ship metaphor, there is no rudder) and it's not clear who they are protesting - Wall Street does not make the rules (sure, they buy a few) - it really should be Occupy Congress.
So since you didn't answer twice, I guess your mechanism for effecting the 4 initiatives you post is to shout loudly?
I am suggesting potential initiatives for OWS to adopt, which, to be honest and hopefully not insulting, is much more likely to effect change than your presidential bid. I repeat--I wish you well.
I think neither OWS nor JeffBlock2012 has a "more likely" chance - it's like saying one has a 1 in 10,000,000 chance while the other has a 1 in 11,000,000 chance.
My stance is the difference between protest and revolution. I'm in no hurry. I believe a revolution will happen within the next 25 years, and the citizens deserve an opportunity to have a revolution without the messy part, so a voted-upon revolution.
I wish you well too. I wish everybody well, which is why I do what I do...
We have similar assessments of the situation.
You have correctly identified some symptoms and thoughtfully addressed the solutions. They may not be the best solutions however even if they were, the current system would just restore them. Until the system is changed to remove the influence of money in elections, that influence will quickly restore them. Until only individual citizens have an equal voice and there are no collective voices or super citizens (individuals and special interests) that are welcome in the elective/governing process, we are addressing symptoms which will not really fix the system, long term.
I agree. I was going to how to kill the Hydra at its source. Much of the need for corruption of our government is in perpetuating laws to make drugs illegal (a recent initiative in congress comes to mind) or propping up the massive military/industrial, security/prison, and oil/gas industries. I would venture that these industries and their fellow-traveling bankers are the source for the worst of the takeover of our system. I would contend that until we slay the monster itself, it will find its way around any system of proposed changes to how elections are financed and how laws are created. Whether on top of what I proposed there would then need to be controls on financing of campaigns, influence of lobbyists etc. is secondary in my way of thinking.
I post elsewhere on this. Some things are important. Some things are urgent Some are both, If we don't fix the electoral process pretty quick, they will just scrape off the fixes to the individual problems even if, or especially if, they are good ones.
What fixes are possible that corruption by the flat of 100-dollar notes cannot get around?
We cannot solve any issue at the same level of Consciousness that it originated from, or by a duality based approach that recognises and validates the very issues that we wish to change.
We need to transcend these dualities and Be The Change We Wish To Experience, and OWS has made an exeptional start and will continue.
This is is more than rebellion against the socio-economic paradigm, it is a shift in Consciousness against which none of the things you list can or will survive because they are false.
The only world that ultimately prevail is a world without money, debt, banks, jobs, work, leaders, government, police, government, and any paradigm that seeks to elevate even one Human Being over another.
Can this actually happen?
Yes - OWS is already that change - it can and will spread to the World.
Huh? A little new agey for me, but I hope you're right. In the meantime, practical decisions must be made because even if with a new shift in consciousness, under the present system drug lords continue to make massive profits that they must launder through banks and that's the head of the Hydra--this all goes back to prohibition when a previous shift in consciousness (stopping alcohol consumption will cure mankind's ills) brought on unforeseen consequences that haunt us still.
It is not intended to be new agey, and neither do I fit that description. For me this is a self-evident truth.
There have been massive changes in the world - just because you cannot see an unseen cause, does not mean that it does not exist.
Never before have tens of thousands of people from all States and walks of life come together, without leaders, money or material possessions, and live in harmony with all immediate needs met.
This shift, and change will reach critical mass.
BTW - this is also what Deepak Chopra was saying when he was at OWS.
Ultimately virtually everything you detailed is under the control of a very few people - I know who they are - including governments and banks.
If they fall everything associated with the system will crumble, and this is what will happen, because they will not be able to continue.
Listing anything - demands, issues, problems, solutions etc - is an exercise in futility. The whole paradigm needs to change - and will.
There is no room for capitalism - it always causes polarisation, and always fails. So we do not need money, oil etc.
Of course we also do not need all of the instruments of material control and distraction either such as iPods, theme parks, fast food etc. These only exist because of debt explosion, fiat currencies and fractional reserve banking - all of which are finished.
So humanity will need to go back to basics of adequate food and shelter and a service rather than selfis or greed based existence.
I am not religious, or hold any political stance or ideal, but if you would like a couple of examples of such a society - the Amish and The Kibbutz in Israel.
And don't forget all life was like that a couple of hundred years ago, and people were much happier than they are today, worrying how they are going to afford the next social statement or techno-gadget.
You're not new agey and you quote Deepak Chopra? I sincerely hope you are right but I doubt the change you envision will come about until after the system collapses. I, for one, do not hope for that.
I was not quoting Deepak Chopra, merely observing his presence.
But you see, even putting labels on things like "new age" is causing dualities which cause seperation and ultimately misery - always has.
I understand you thinking my words are somewhat "out there", but nevertheless, only when it happens will you understand - and it will.
Ok. Will be looking for it.
Better still - Be It.
I'm abiding.
neat ideas, still needs the work of many other people.
Thanks, that's why I put it out there. I don't think people realize how big the hidden economy of drug profiteering is and how that money has corrupted the banking system. Derivatives and quant trading have turned our markets into casinos--we need to get them supplying capital to Americans again. The military/industrial and security/prison complexes are self-perpetuating drags on our economy and the locus of much corruption. Oil companies are doing what they do, but we need to redirect their profits through taxation toward building new infrastructure. As the first industrialized economy, our infrastructure is becoming outdated. We've had to transform our infrastructure before--canals, railroads, interstates--it's time to do it again. The infrastructure is the common capital base on which we erect our individual enterprises and if its broken, we are all broken.
england was the first industrialized country (ever hear of sheffield steel?). we followed quickly. a manhattan project for alternative energy is in order. drug money and the stock market are definitely problems. we've had a separation of church and state for a long time. we need the same with business and finance. it is too easy to corrupt politicians. after all, many/most are only in it for the money
Thanks for the correction--I was referring to the Second Industrial Revolution brought on by oil, but you are correct. We are in agreement except I would characterize the emergency as dire enough to warrant a full WW2 mobilization effort and not a moonshot or Manhattan project effort.
yes, a ww2 mobilization would be even better