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Forum Post: Sortition = Democracy

Posted 3 years ago on Nov. 21, 2011, 4:18 p.m. EST by improvingourworld (2)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

The first representative democracy. Athenian democracy. Based on the wise use of sortition. Random selection. Lottery. It is the final answer. It solves the underlying problems. Research it. Investigate it. Problems. Problems. Problems. Time to move forward with solutions. Solution: sortition Use only legal and peaceful means to achieve your goals.

11 Comments

11 Comments


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[-] 1 points by SortitionistDave (1) 3 years ago

Please see www.TheCommonLot.com for information about wise use of sortition. Sortition is what must be used in a large population for legislative matters where direct democracy is impossibly cumbersome. Sortition is not appropriate for executive, meritocratic positions. All 'passengers' (deciders) on the ship of state should have equally valid 'tickets' directing the 'captain' (implementers) to handle the wheel.

[-] 1 points by Coriolanus (272) 3 years ago

Athenian democracy? You want to limit the vote to male citizens who have completed military school? And not allow immigrants or children of immigrants to vote?

(By the way, in Athens there were only about 50,000 men eligible to vote at any time. It would be a lot harder to accomplish in a country of 300 million. But hey, go for it.)

[-] 1 points by bakerjohnj (121) 3 years ago

Or we could just get everyone, everywhere online, ask ourselves what is best for us and let the majority rule.

[-] 1 points by mookie (38) 3 years ago

It wouldn't work for a couple of reasons. 1. Most people are completely ignorant when it comes to basic economic principals, history, government, etc. For this reason, it would be dangerous to have majority rule take effect on every bill or piece of legislation. 2. True democracy promotes majority rule (or mob rule), often leading to the loss of individual rights that are not popular among the status quo. This is why our country was initially framed as a democratic republic, with a constitution that was meant to keep the government in check. Too bad our constitution is being violated on many levels.

[-] 1 points by ronimacarroni (1089) 3 years ago

"For this reason, it would be dangerous to have majority rule take effect on every bill or piece of legislation."

Bullshit

[-] 1 points by mookie (38) 3 years ago

That's the best you can do roni?

[-] 1 points by ScrewyL (809) 3 years ago

Yes, bullshit.

Much more dangerous to have professional scam artists imbued with official power meeting in secret to devise methods of personal gain.

Furthermore, Sortition does not imply the violation of our Bill of Rights. They are seprate (no-dependent) axes:

A-A. You could have a nation where elected representatives violate the bill of rights.

A-B. You could have a nation where elected representatives uphold the bill of rights.

B-A. You could have a nation where sortited representatives violate the bill of rights.

B-B. You could have a nation where sortited representatives uphold the bill of rights.

I believe it was the intent of the original poster that we aspire to a representative democracy in the form of B-B, which would make your rebuttal unneccessarily argumentative.

[-] 1 points by mookie (38) 3 years ago

No!!! Not Bullshit! Any form of government can be subject to corruption. I share your anger at the way our leaders have been abusing power, but implementing a lottery system is ridiculous! If your standing up for Majority rule leads to discrimination of minority groups/opinions, and ends up being anti-liberal!

[-] 1 points by ScrewyL (809) 3 years ago

That's just not true. A republic and a bill-of-rights can still be imposed upon a sortited government, just as it can upon an elected government.

If both fail, then the ever-present "right to armed insurrection" is the only remaining option.

I'll say it again, they are separate, non-dependent axes.

election does not exclude violation, and sortition does not exclude upholding.

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[-] 0 points by raines (699) 3 years ago

You're right !!!

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