Forum Post: OCCUPY CREDIT CARD - Anonymous to steal money from 1%
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 2, 2011, 9:05 a.m. EST by theaveng
(602)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Well here's a "winner" of an idea: "It relies on stealing personal data of credit card holders [that's you and me] and charging money to the cards, just like your regular cyber criminals do, and distribute it to the 99 per cent, as well as various charities around the globe. The collaboration believes that the banks will be forced to reimburse the damages caused by the hack and thus will be the ones to pay."
The Anonymous group is the same hacktivist group that released the cell phone number, email and home address of Lt. John Pike — for his now notorious pepper-spray assault on protesters at UC Davis.
CONTINUED ON RT.com - http://rt.com/news/robin-hood-hackers-anonymous-743/
So my card get's used fraudulently, I have to replace it, change all my auto pays on it, try to fix my credit score if some auto pay doesn't get made on time. It's all ok though because they are going to somehow take money and give it to the 99%?
Did it occur to you Robin Hoods that banks raise fees on us when they lose money? If you do manage to make enough charges to break a bank somehow, can you guarantee that bank won't get bailed out, which passes the bill right back on the 99% anyhow?
Maybe we ought to just elect anonymous to congress. They seem to have this whole "help the people by screwing them up" thing down about as well as the government does. Their good intentions aren't much use when all they've done is create more problems and expense for the rest of us.
They increase your 'fees' to pad their pockets and that is all. There is soo much $$ in processing payments - TRILLIONS in profits, that the fraud purchases would be like me taking a penny out of your cup holder, you wouldn't even notice.
The basic point though is they will not accept the loss of that profit from theft. Anonymous isn't doing us any favors. The pin prick attacks only make things worse for the ordinary person. The inconvenience to the ordinary consumer will make Anonymous look like the villain in this action at best, or simply the subject of a proctology exam at worst.
Well said.
Also it's because of Anonymous and other groups that we also have to deal with SOPA, DMCA, and other attempts by the government to control the internet & limit online freedom. Anonymous gives the politicians justification.
SOPA is not about Anonymous, is it about OWS and the American Spring.
Politicians don't need justification, they just make up whatever they think will secure corporate contributions or keep them in power (the stream of corporate funding).
:-( I said "and other groups" would includes OWS. Actually the main target will likely be the obvious ones like piratebay, youtube (due to infringing songs and vids), plus FOX which the current administration hates, and would like to yank off the web.
Also wikileaks because they reveal the secrets that the White House wants to hide (like that video where soldiers killed a reporter, cameraman, and children).
"The road to Hell is paved with good intentions."
Mmmm, let's talk about aiding and abetting felonies! Officers reading this forum I hereby report this individual for promoting grand larceny and thereby relieve myself of potential prosecution for misprision of a felony.
Seriously, don't you people know anything? You can go to prison for shit like this cowgirl.
Free speech is not a crime. In fact the Supreme Court has ruled that even death threats are constitutionally protected (Brandenburg v. New York state).
Don't forget to get anonymous to mess up votes for all faction in politics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hphgHi6FD8k
don't break the law for me and quit worrying about your credit score it should be called a sheep score rating how much of a stupid sheep you are to keep making loans.
Pathetic. Simply pathetic.
If you live by the book you will never get anywhere but if you break or throw away the book then you can do what is actually reality in life. Those 1% holders have our hard earned money which they have stolen from the poor and middle classes.
I'm pretty sure unless they personally came into your place and took it, it's their money.
you are looking at this with blinders, 1% take big tax cuts which the lower classes have no chance of getting, the take kickbacks and under the table money which all comes from the taxes we pay.
It's not blinders. They have army's of lawyers to unwind whatever they need to get max profits. This is why companies like GE don't pay any tax on anything. The (poison) plastic water bottles everyone carts around?? If that company sells said water within state lines, they don't have to spend a cent in tax. That's why water companies have plants in every state they are sold. It's not all kickbacks(not saying there aren't any) it's just more legal jury-rigging by lawyers.
Yes true. But..... the 1500 billion they used Congress to steal from taxpayer wallets is Not their money.
If you paid taxes, have a job where taxes are taken out, then you willfully gave them your money. After the government gets it, then it's up to them where said money is allocated. If you don't want to pay the government, work under the table and help us dig deeper into debt. and 1500 billion isn't a number
You're a very strange person. Saying 1500 billion is no different than saying 1500 gigabytes (billion bytes).
And sorry but I don't agree that the Congress can do anything they wish with taxpayer money. The 10th Amendment of the Bill of Rights says otherwise.
I never said Congress, you did. They do have a hand in where some money goes. When I say government, I mean from the pres down to your local mayor. Giving money for property tax isn't them stealing, Income tax isn't stealing, federal tax isn't stealing. Going into someone's house taking their TV and leaving is. You have to pay taxes that go to things that help not only you, but also your community and your country. On the flip side, you could not pay your taxes, work under the table, and not worry about where you money might go to actually help someone in need by way of Special Services. We keep dividing ourselves and it needs to stop. And yes, I am an incredibly strange person, thank you for noticing (if only "normals" talk, then were all screwed). It is the "freaks" that look at things from a different perspective, and can take themselves out of a situation and evaluate. I'm not saying I'm right, but I'm also not saying I'm wrong.
You seem to believe that the existence of a Law makes crime okay. The taking of 1.5 trillion from taxpayers via congressional law does not mean it was not Theft from the poor/middle clases to the top 0.1% wealthy corporations.
Just as the Laws the Germans passed which said, "Exterminate all jews" did not mean it was not murder.
Please show me where Germany the country said it was okay to kill Jews. Yet again, like all of the other convos I've had with some of the people on this site, you are drawing parallels to events that are nothing like what is happening in this situation. Law doesn't make the crime okay in any situation, that's why there are laws saying that it is not. If everyone stopped paying taxes, we would be a third world country in under a 5 year period. If you've seen poor cities where nobody can really afford anything, you'll see streets go unmaintained, public services(police, fire, etc) get cut, and then everyone is in danger. The debt we are in isn't just debt from people taking from taxpayers here and there, it's out debt to the world. We borrow from other countries. Just as they have borrowed from us. We spent billions a month for an occupation we had no business getting into. But because "somebody" had to get back at some guy that pissed off his dad. This personal revenge cost you and me money while him and his friends made more with one signature than we'll probably ever see. But, because we pay taxes, we paid the bill. Did all of your tax money go to that?? No. This is why there is Federal, local, and state tax. Also you throw corporations into the mix. That is where the most change is needed. Most corps, GE for example, don't pay a dime. Loopholes like this need to be closed. Another example, did you know if a water company(like Deer Park) taps into the supply in your state and their truck don't cross state lines, they don't have to pay taxes either?? There is no law about how much you can make, I support that. There are no laws about what kind of retirement package you get when you leave your job. Are thing like this exploited?? Sure, but one of the major thing that should be changed isn't how individuals are compensated, but how companies are taxed for the business they conduct. Small businesses pay tax, but big ones don't. This is why a lot of the major companies are based outside of the US. They aren't on US property, therefore our laws don't apply. That is wrong.
You will get in trouble with the police if you do this. Maybe they will put you in jail. I hope you don't break the law.
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This isn't going to work...... the transactions made to the "charities" will be reversed.....
What happens in a case like this is, once the fraudulent transaction is reported by the owner of the card (and believe me it will be reported) the credit card company sends a notice to the recipient, if documentation by the recipient doesn't verify that it is a legal transaction the charge is reversed.....
The credit card company (bank) pays nothing to anyone ..........
they take NO RISK people take all the risk the bank gets all the reward even if you fil they come get whatever you have left. But if the bank fails do you get to keep your 1/2 paid off house? Why is the deck so "stacked" against us and for the bank? Time to aim boycotts at banks and move your money to credit unions.
Look, when you purchase a home you sign a contract to pay the loan, if you can't pay for the house what are they suppose to do? Give it to you for what you have paid. Would expect them to do that for a car as well?
My husband and I lost our home because of this recession, we had only 8 years left to pay on it... it was a 30 year loan that we were paying off in less than 15 years to reduce the interest.... long story short, when my business failed and then my husband lost his job we couldn't meet our mortgage obligation and we lost the house.
It is a shame and it did hurt but we made a legal contract that said we paid for the house or the bank takes it back... that's life... and it isn't unfair.
I paid cash for my first home $10,000.00 for a old old trailer on 5 acres with a small barn. Terrible land, way out in the country, but I did not have to borrow to buy it, it impressed no one, but why impress? it just costs a lot of money to do that and it brings your soul no good. Sure I could have got a mansion on a hill and payed for the rest of my life but I worried, what if the economy tanks? I will lose my home and all I have invested. I was not willing to risk it (a gamble and gambeling is wrong). So when the down turn came I had no major problems keeping my house. I saved further and drove a old car until I could afford to pay cash for a double wide, CASH. How much interest did I save? I think I would have paid about 140% more than I did. I saved a ton, and I did not worry about keeping my job worried I would lose the house, I slept peacefully not worried about debt. Why do people believe that they NEED to borrow to keep up with the Jones? Why do people think they need a credit rating? did the American Indians have a credit rating? to live their way? People learn to live way under your means and learn to save (and invest) huge sums of money and always pay cash and keep the banker out of your wallet. Those that embrace religion should know that EVERY religion said it was wrong to charge interest because then the one charging will eventually own everything. What happened to make us believe borrow is right? Did someone not teach morals and other historical lessons to this bunch of people?
Well good for you.... unfortunately we lived in an area where that type of thing wasn't available. However, we didn't live above our means, the house was far from a "McMansion" being only 980 sq ft, and we were fortunate enough to make extra payments to reduce the principle as well as the interest. We had one car which was paid for. Put 3 kids through college with out the aid of loans. And managed to save enough that we kept ourselves together for two years, unfortunately not quite long enough for us to find other jobs and keep our home.
Just because you managed to do things without any debt doesn't mean that people who have debt are irresponsible or that they even had the choices you made. So be careful you don't break your arm patting yourself on the back.
I was faced with choices of to take loan or not. I looked down both roads. I could not see that far, didn't know for sure which way to go. Took advice and trusted it, and it payed off. Everyone is on a different path in life. Everyone is at different point on their path. It is all good, no? Sorry it seemed I was patting myself on the back, hard to talk about self, and stay neutral.
No problem... it's just that when you talk about yourself you might try to not sound as if you are telling others that their choices to purchase a home with a mortgage is wrong ..... I'm sure all of us would love to be able to pay cash for a livable dwelling... but in today's world that is largely unrealistic.
I had a conversation with someone today on the forum that said he has managed to save nearly a million dollars, by not owning a car, buying nothing new including any and all clothing, and certainly buys nothing on credit. While that is commendable I asked him what the purpose of "saving" (hoarding) all that money was..... I never got an answer.
Now I don't believe that anyone should drown themselves in debt, or spend frivolously, but there are times in life when it is the only practical way to do something. And the majority of people do not take on a debt they don't intend to honor,.......
thanks for the civil discussion. For me taking a mortgage was just wrong. I think that mortgage companies have influenced a lot of peoples minds that mortgages are the only way forward. If you want to live in "today's world" that includes plastic and 30 year mortgages it is your free choice to do so. Every choice has its benefits and problems. I did not want to RISK everything on betting I could keep a high paying job for the next 30 years. Many have bet and won (paid off) but when a problem comes, a bump in the road, look how many people have lost the bet. One in 5?. Bankers are wringing their hands in glee as they take possession of foreclosed homes. The bankers also bet and lost but the government bailed them out (so so so wrong) if the banks had failed those borrowers would owe money to who? So the gov. stepping in to bail the bankers but leave the home buyers hanging was proof that the gov is for the bankers and by the bankers. That form of gov has got to go!!!. Gov is supposed to be for US not the bankers. So that is reason enough to replace the system that is in place with something much better for we the people. not to your friend who saved a mil. I too have saved cash, what do i spend my savings on? helping others. What is a better investment in your soul than helping others? Its a reward that is "priceless". There is no better investment to make, because a banker can not get part of your "profit", from helping others. Yes there are times in life when there is now no other choice, but take a loan, but we can change that too, for the better.
I think that what you have done is a very good thing, and it is right for you... and helping others is something we all should do, whether it is through donations of money or our time...
While the banks hold responsibility for their own failure, let's face it, the selling prices for homes had become outrageous. That's one reason we bought a small "fixer upper".... it was cheap and stretching out the mortgage over 30 years gave us a little more security in that the payments were very reasonable and we thought that in the event of a job loss or other "glitch" we'd manage the payments. It is also one reason we were able to pay extra payments to the principle and cut the mortgage term down. What we couldn't foresee was my husband not being able to find another job once he lost his, or my small business failing.... I don't look at all of that as taken a gamble....we had a good plan and back up savings, no one could have foreseen that the recession would be so deep.
It is the irresponsibility of both the banks, and people who purchased above their means, whether in a home or with credit that need a "re-education. But loans are a necessary evil, when so many people work at jobs that are minimum wage or just above it, to even be able to purchase a car would be impossible without a loan. Unless the auto manufacturers can build a car that doesn't cost as much as some homes do I don't see that changing.
At any rate, I wish you more good "luck", you sound like you have a good head and heart. Hopefully the future will be brighter for all of you younger people... I hope so. We are just 2-5 years from retirement age and things certainly look a whole lot different than we planned... I would hate to think that my grandchildren will not have the future I have dreamed for them...
Best Wishes :)
<<I don't look at all of that as taken a gamble....we had a good plan and back up savings, no one could have foreseen that the recession would be so deep.>> your gamble seemed like a sure thing, but it was still a gamble. but so many things can happen in the future that no one knows enough to say I will be able to work for 30 years and pay for this house. You guys did a lot of right things, a fixer upper for one. Living below your means another. Paying down the principal, Renting is always a option if you have a job. I lived in a tent, until I got my first job. Snowy mornings "pushed" me to find a way to get a job and live in a house. I was lucky a friend allowed me to stay with him as I looked for work, and it took less than a week to find any job, once I had a telephone to use to get calls from employers. .... you do not need a loan to buy an old car and you do not have to have a new one either, don't try to keep up with the Jones, keep up with yourself. .... without loans the price of houses would have to fall so people could actually buy them. just a thought to ponder. Market forces have been artificially removed and with them seemed to go natural consequences for stupid actions.
I guess it just depends on how you look at it.... millions of people have done what we did and it worked for many, many years. And at 56 years old finding jobs was not as easy for us.... even in places like Star Bucks etc.... we applied everywhere.... an old employer of my husband's offered him a job, but too late for us to save our home or savings. We moved 500 miles from home and family. We rent now, but we still live the same simple life we always did... only know we have to try to rebuild some kind of retirement in the few short years we have until that comes....
I agree with a lot of what you have to say... but some things aren't always a solution for everyone. Buying an old car (and I'm sure most of us have done that at least once in our life) isn't always practical if you do not have the knowledge(or the money) to repair them. Keeping up with Jones really has nothing to do with it. Even new cars on the lower end are expensive.
What is doable and practical for some is not for others...
Youth is on your side, and with your life style you will do well.
driving a used car ( 6 years old or so) it is shown to cost 1/2 as much per mile as a new one and that is hiring all the repairs done and figuring in the tow bills and insurance bills. If you only pay $1000.00 (I have bought a lot for a average of about $500.00) or less your cost per mile is way cheap on depreciation and higher on repairs and way less on make a impression value (which ya can't eat) and I am not that materialistic any way. yer only 2 years ahead of me....
Get all the cash back or ATM withdrawals, then make the contributions in cash or money order. Banks cant reverse it. Of course, I think it is a crazy idea and not recommended, IMO.
It is crazy.... as well as illegal. Doing this makes this group no better than the 1% that they say are dishonest. OWS should come out against this.
My credit number was stolen and the thief spent $3500 in a Walmart store on the other side of the continent. I doubt VISA reversed the charge back onto Walmart (because then walmart would be pissed). The Visa bank just absorbed the loss themselves.
Sorry but that isn't the way it works. I owned a small retail business with a website. If a charge came through that was disputed and it was determined that the person that made the charge was not the legal owner of the card, the charge was reversed..... it is the retailer that is out in the cold NOT the bank or the owner of the credit card.
the bank takes no risk you take all the risk the bank can not fail they set all the rules, you have to buy in or not play. You will never be able to write the terms of a loan as long s banks are involved. They employ lawyers to be sure they always win. The only way to stay ahead is not to do business with the banks. Find other ways to borrow money, friends, family.
Nice idea, except that in this economy not too many people have friends and family that can afford to invest in anything but themselves.
when you sell something to someone like a used car, person to person no businesses, do you get them a payment plan and charge them interest? or do you just charge them a price? If there were no banks anyone wanting to sell their land would have to accept payments from the buyer direct. There would be no loan only a payment agreement and terms. Banks are not needed, stop accepting their notes for your possessions, today, accept only food or other needed goods, if you have to accept money trade it quick for some goods or food. Its all smoke and mirrors, what is money really but a unit of barter, saving it won't feed you tomorrow as it won't be worth tomorrow what it is worth today? Invest in the spirit world that is the best place to invest your time in. The new currency will soon be, sadly, food.
then you need to create a way (website) for those with money to connect with those that need some to invest. Like a bank but without all the dripping greed, lets raise those fees and see if the customers will pay more. OWS could set this up to undermine the banking system and replace it with something that charges a lot less interest for borrowed money. A shared risk taking where if the business does good the investors do good. If business does bad then investors not happy, so investors will be involved to be sure their money is not wasted. Bank out of loop. by by by
You do realize that I am speaking about the "Mom and Pop" businesses... they hardly would make a return on an investment that anyone would want to put money into. And those are the kind of businesses that are the backbone of this country.
how much money do you need to start a mom and pop? and many have immigrated here and bought up those mom and pops so someone must think they have some value.
Well I don't know about other types of small businesses but when I began my small retail business, to rent the space, purchase the needed display equipment (used), pay for the necessary insurance and fees from the city, signage, cash register, and sundry office type supplies to say nothing of the cost of the merchandise it was over $20,000.00 And that was a very small start up amount. Do you have $20,000.00 just collecting dust in the bank?
And yes a lot of immigrants have "bought up" Mom and Pop type convenience stores, they reduce the inventory to half of what it was, jack up the prices and run it into the ground. The town I came from in Michigan has very few of the small "corner" stores we once had... due to that very reason. They have no vested interest in the community to keep the store operating.
you should stop complaining and work harder. if you spend half as much time tending to your small business as you do running your mouth about bullshit i dont care about, you'd have a few million more dollars. not that that will bring you any more happiness but you wont know that until you get there.
so get back to work. i dont want to hear your shit until you have 53 million dollars, bitch
The only complaint I have is about neanderthals like you...... find a chat room where you can impress some 15 year old with your intelligence.
I am disabled due to a car crash I have no cash. but I did start a engineering business on a shoe string with less than 1000.00 in my pocket the day I refused to lie for my employer. Choosing to quit instead of lying was a REAL act of faith for me. I was only out of work for 4 days and had not even began to look for work when it came and found me. Reputations matter. My pay tripled. It was a good choice not to lie, it seems in the long run.
Look that is all good... but not every business can go on a start up of $1000. I'm not trying to reduce your achievements, but you must realize that what you did is not the norm, certainly not for many types of small businesses. And although I don't know a lot about engineering I do know there are many kinds of engineers, and I would wager to bet that your business didn't require a lot of capital for equipment if you were able to start it with only $1000.
It's nice to hear a story that could have ended badly actually become a story of success... and yes you are absolutely right lying is never a means to and end and you did make the right choice.
not much reward in this life for not lying. But I have decided it IS the best choice for me. And I will take my lumps for doing wrong, rather than try to lie about it to get out of punishment.
most companies have insurance for this sort of thing,,,
No they don't.... that is a fallacy. There is no insurance that covers that kind of loss. Just as there is no insurance to cover merchandise that a customer breaks.... something else that people seem to think businesses have.
Why do you think that fraud is such an issue with credit cards? It isn't the customer or the bank that gets shafted in the end... it's the merchant , if there is an actual piece of merchandise that is purchased with a stolen credit card.
On ebay website sales I've had "stolen card" disputes but never had to take the loss. Either ebay (via paypal) or the credit card took the hit.
That's because they, Pay Pal or Ebay, make that guarantee. There is no such guarantee with major credit card companies. In my retail business we dealt with Visa, Master Card, Discover and American Express, NONE of them protected us from fraud, they may protect their customer but not the retailer. I lost money one time on a fraudulent sale, after that if I had any suspicion about the transaction I called the issuing bank of the credit card to verify it's usage. I don't know where you got the idea that the merchant is covered on the loss because that just isn't true.
business owners should stop taking credit cards and stop sharing THEIR profits with the card company.
Nice idea except that without accepting credit cards you aren't going to have a business........
sure you will, you will charge about 5% less than your competition and you will advertize that fact and the customers will find this out and beat a path to your door with cash in hand. After you lower your fees by what you save on not taking plastic headaches, and sharing your profit with them for the sake of convenience for the customer. Your business should grow faster than a business that allows a card company to have 5% of your gross income (before profits)
You obviously have never owned a business. At least not a retail business.
I owned a corp for 15 years employed from 5 to 15 engineers, 70% to 80% handicapped or partially handicapped employees (just like me). But you are right never a retail store, just a engineering corp. How did you guess?
Because a retail business is a very different animal from the type of business you had. Retail businesses can't survive with out accepting plastic.... even if it's only debit cards had you owned a retail business you would have known that. I would have loved nothing better than to have gone to cash and check only.....
you could have chose that path. It might have worked, and you might have had to think out of the box for a while too, and moved your style of store forward, you being the inventor of the new way. I had a friend that had a car repair shop and he only took cash. I listened to him complain about the credit card fees.
Yes but look at the difference between your friends business and a retail business. Car repair can be a necessity ...... if it is a cash only business and he has good mechanics people will pay with cash/check. Retail is a totally different animal.... most of the purchases made in our store were by credit card or some debit cards but even that requires a merchant account with the major credit card companies. The only time we saw more spending in cash was during the holidays, but as the years went on even that lessened. And small retail businesses can not compete with big box stores, and not accepting credit cards would only make that burden greater.
I would have been a nice vision to be credit card fee free, but not practical at all.
the belief that a piece of plastic is king over cash is the result of the card companies spending cash on TV to change your and the consumers mind. Plastic is more safe than cash. Well maybe it was but now that 1 thief can steel 1000000 card numbers in a few moments makes you wonder if plastic is still safer than cash. If every retailer could get together they could easily throw off the card companies. Have everyone refuse to accept them then what? If your retail industry can get together (good luck too many back stabbers for retailers to get together). Keep trying to get that no plastic vision into focus you will find something better if you look and look, it IS there, for you to find and prosper for finding. Small stores should be able to beat big box stores if you would push the buy local ideas brought up before, but push at a retail level. How about a 6% reduction in price of goods when paying with cash? the card companies will howl about that, unless they already have it covered in the "fine print" of card agreements. So take no plastic but advertize 6% lower prices. People will come look at your prices, they can get cash and spend it if they want to save MORE. Look you gotta THINK out side the box store. I know people who started selling out of their trunk and when they got enough business they quit their day job and rented a shabby building to open their business in. Then when things got better they moved to a better location and their loyal followers followed them there. YOU CAN DO IT.
Hmmm.
That's a nice racket. The credit card companies make flimsy security that is easily hacked (just steal the number), but they don't have to bear the cost of that shoddy craftsmanship.
Well they protect their customers. The retailers are under no obligation to accept the credit card as a form of payment... and it is up to us as retailers to be vigilant in policing our transactions. That is why I never had an automatic payment setup on my website. We did each purchase manually. That way if I had any suspicion of fraud I could verify it before I sent the merchandise out... I know that wouldn't work for larger retailers but it did for us.
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Nice! Makes them criminals guilty of the exact same behavior OWS claims the 1% are guilty of. No wonder people hate them already.
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The last time the banks lost billions and it was their own fault, but who paid the bill on that? We did. Why should anyone believe that this would have a different result?
we should have owned the banks after they failed the first time. We still could own the banks and have the gov run them as non-profits. Who only charge a minimal amount of interest. The electric companies are run as non-profits and the gas companies could also be run as non-profits
Sounds a little like kids playing with matches, maybe they keep warm, maybe the set themselves or us on fire.
Anonymous will be revealed as a small group of acne plagued 13 year old misfits... who think everything is a video game. They will be charged with inciting riots and domestic terrorism and force us to turn Gitmo into a YOUTH Camp.