Forum Post: I, the sheep, wants to know, "Why are you guys occupying Wall Street?"
Posted 12 years ago on Sept. 28, 2011, 11:42 a.m. EST by Sheep
(13)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Hello there,
I flock with the sheeple. I know nothing of politics and government because I've been occupied with my own life. I've lived under a rock for my whole life. I've closed myself to everything outside, until I heard a crowd of people shouting. Outside of that rock, there were people remarking about this and that, and I want to know...why are you guys occupying Wall Street? Right here, and right now, I want to get out that I am an ignorant person, who does not research until something seems out of place - the Occupy Wall St. Protest. I've gone on the globalrevolution stream, and I've asked countless times about why the movement is as it is. I've been answered:
- There is 1% (400 people that earn the most in the U.S.) that control the government's actions
- The Federal Reserve collects interest from the government
- Wall St. is the reason for all the jobs lost
- Wall St. is the reason for poverty
- The reason why education hasn't been free is because the 1% wants to keep the population uneducated
- The 1% don't pay taxes
- New World Order
- General Electronics doesn't pay their taxes
- All other problems
Note that this stream is very popular, and that answers are either pushed up by new comments and/or cleared by the moderators. Sometimes, there'll be unexplained disconnections, too.
I've noticed the many advertisements on this protest, and see a lot of people claiming things, but not giving any sources or at least some site where everything is explained about this movement. All I hear is that Wall St. causes this and that, and are disrupting out future. But, where's all of this coming from? How's Wall Street a part of this? I heard all of this talk about us sheeple being too stupid, and want to wake us up. Well, I want to "wake up," and I have been trying to inform myself. But, there's just not enough information on these conspiracies you guys are talking about. I am the sheep. You guys can remark about how ignorant we are, but it's not going going to motivate us to join forces with you. I want to join. But, I am too oblivious of these things that you're fighting.
In addition, I've spread info about this protest to others, and they seemed a bit confused and said it was their first time hearing these things. But, when they asked, "Why?" I just said, "Oh, they're just blaming Wall Street for all these bad things and blah, blah, blah." I added the "blah, blah, blah." to shorten the answer, because I truly didn't know anything about this movement, and became disappointed in myself.
I bet that some protesters are joining for the Hell of it, too, only knowing what I know.
Please, help me, and them,
Sheep
Hi Sheep, happy to hear you're interested.
Occupy Wall Street is against the marriage of corporate finance with American government, here's some major reasons why:
The protest, at the very least, is about the widening gap between rich and poor, and the disappearance of the middle class, in America and across the world, and a political system that Americans are increasingly convinced represents the interests of money and not the voting population at large. For example, just 244 individuals (out of 300 million!) are responsible for over 70% of the donations Obama has received for his 2012 election campaign. Compound that with the fact that 94% of the time the politician who wins an election in the US is the one who spends the most money, and it should be obvious how important money has in deciding modern politics.
See also the effect of lobbyists legislation, and the fact the disastrously poorly regulated financial system that led to the crash of 2008 has remained fundamentally unreformed, and that the guilty parties -- who we know deliberately deceived investors like Mom and Dad and Gramma and Grampa into buying investments that they themselves were betting on to fail -- have gone almost completely unpunished, AND they have collected record bonuses using taxpayer bailout money for doing such a great ruining the financial system!
Btw, Washington is trying to pass legislation that will FURTHER exonerate those who perpetrated this fraud, and bypass a standard, thorough investigation. These aren't the only reasons that people are protesting, but I hope it explains why so many protesters want to take the influence of corporate finance out of the US government, stop calling money 'speech,' take the corporate donations out of campaigns, and give the influence back to the US voting public.
Phew! Glad I got to talk to 'the Sheep' directly and clear all this up. And btw I like 'the Sheep' as a term for Occupy Wall Streeters, not the other way around. We should have sheep and zombies in the street. Maybe add another brigade of creatures every day lol
Thank you. Under this rock, I've been fed with milk from the store for sometime now. It's time I gather up why the flavor turned to shit as time passed.
Well thanks for your genuine engagement with this stuff.
I'd also like to say I think OWS is about a paradigm shift, stuff about making sure everyone has sufficient quality of life, and that money is more fairly distribued based on what you contribute to the human race rather than what you do to destroy it.
Sheep, you have free education right now. It's in your public library. It's on informative websites. It's everywhere today. Just go and read. If you spend a few minutes reading you'd understand that most of what your wrote in your bullet points is just plain factually wrong (e.g. 1% of our population equals apx 300,000 people, not 400). Does geting the facts correct matter.....Of Course it does, otherwise you look and sound like an uninformed mouth that is not connected to a brain. Spend the next two weeks in a library reading every thing you can on world economic and then come back and post again. I will want to hear your mouth once connected to your brain!
I know that there's "free" education. I've expressed that I couldn't find things on these claims on the Internet, and I definitely think that it's not "everywhere." Also, the bullet-pointed list is what I gathered on their livestream chat. I didn't assume they were facts, but claims. Other than that, I'm in college, I can't afford to spend that much time on research, but I could try taking small steps while working. I don't know where to start, so I'm asking everyone about this movement's motivation. This thread is a part of my research.
Hi, it is not a bunch of crazy piglets with nothing better to do. This is a GLOBAL MOVEMENT I call it R_Evolution phase III. You could learn more about this at: http://takethesquare.net/2011/07/15/how-to-cook-a-pacific-revolution/ and also at: http://15october.net/
Sheep: Time to become a Goat, brother. Have a listen, this might help you on your journey: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/play_full.php?play=355
Why we OccupyWallStreet:
1) To address the problems of Economic Justice, hidden from the national discourse and journalism.
2) To organize with like minded-individuals , because group collaboration is essential to success.
3) To show alarm, frustration, concern and care of the bleak vision of the Future, if the status quo remains.
4) To raise awareness that the total control of the Central Banks is purposefully choking our economy.
5) To object to Homes Foreclosures, High Unemployment & Suffocating Debt, along with record CEO $$$
6) To be a Presence, that we as a people, can still Stand Up & Demand Justice, even against the Elite.
7) ...and we do it right in the dead center of their sandbox, in Zuccotti Park on Liberty St downtown NYC.
8) To endure the barricades, abuse and discomforts, for all the World to see, that this needs attention NOW!
9) To announce that there are Patriots out there able to see through the smoke screen reality of the media.
10) To recognize the power of our own legal system and regulatory processes, had it not been hijacked, along with the rest of our government, could contain the Oligarchy of the Finance Wizards of Greed.
11) To bare witness to the suffering, depression and dire conditions that these influences are causing to the vast majority of the world. The top 1% Elite control over half the world's wealth.
12) To share our ideas and prioritize how to tackle their issues, how to take back our government, our legal system and our futures.
13) To secure for ourselves, and pass on the future generations, the principals of Economic Justice & Opportunity, because that is the birthright of ALL, not just the Top Tier of Corporatism.
14) To Profess our Faith, that our American Legal System already has everything it needs to overcome the Corporate & Financial Powers of Greed amassed against it, if it would only put Justice first.
15) To recognize the how the media fixation on the achievement of wealth and allure of power can mind control the viewing masses into a dull, blank stare of a materialist, fantasy fabrication of reality.
16) To SHOUT OUT to the country: “SNAP OUT OF IT!” and see the crisis before your eyes.
17) To Expose the stranglehold on our economy, the manipulation of our financial markets and mind control mass media by the mega rich.
18) To be an example that New Media, Digital Social Communities and the Ingenuity of Youth can create news way to be a Global Force for issues of Global Importance.
19) To criticize the STUPIDIY of the Supreme Court allowing unlimited Corporate Campaign Contributions in the Political System.
20) To embody the struggle for Social & Economic Justice that is a part of the American Tradition as well as a safeguard that it will remain a part of Americas Future.
That's why we OccupyWallStreet.
Also, remember that these are not conspiracies. All of this is documented and in the light. Money powers politics because politicians need money to get into office, and they won't get it unless they espouse views beneficial to the people with the most money. Therefore, I believe that many politicians are just alienated from reality and misguided. Those companies believe they are doing the right thing by trying to remain profitable. They don't know they damage they're doing by playing with the economy. We're people fighting people, and all people believe themselves to be the hero in their own movie.
I've done a little research to see where this "1%" is coming from. Here's an article from a professor in the University of California. :
http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html
Also, I came to that conclusion, too - about the politicians being kind of alienated from reality and misguided.
you definitely rock the game to explain to the protesters where they are failing to get their message across and how. In short, whats been going on for 100 years now is a caste and class war, with the elites keeping us all dumbed down and drugged up and pre-occupied. People are waking up to that class war and deciding to fight back. Often in ways that aren't very productive. It makes more sense to generate a very concise list of complaints and demands FIRST and THEN go protest... this protest has it the other way around and we are really seeing a lot of lag time even to finish there. I agree, you have expressed the core communication failure VERY effectively, hopefully the movement can take this skilled communication as a fine example and try to meet you there. https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150409084095833
Thank you for your insight and the compliment.
they dont want to see that the workers are exploited like slaves, but as free wage labourers on the job market, handing themselves out to the highest bidder. they dont want to see that their participating and loyalty to the system is the base of all the power and richness they now condemn, the base for everything they claim wrong and immoral, including wall street where bets on the results of their exploitation are made. blah blah blah is necessary if you dont want to accept the truth that this system is not your system, that the freedom of property is not your freedom as a worker. so they condemn some bankers and politicians instead of doing the revolution to keep the hope that everything is actually thought out and made for their interests and just took a wrong turn somewhere and therefor it is in the interest of the powerfull and rich to fix it again. a futile hope. and they even call that a revolution.. begging at the feet of the powerfull and rich to respect their needs as humans instead of organizing the workers to take things in their own hands out of the hands of capital and state. there is only two outcomes of this: come to terms with reality or go back to work at wallmart and mcdonalds and whatever for 7 bucks an hour and flame the wealthy and powerfull like they'd care aslong as you dont step out of line and act against their interests.
not to mention that they are all out their eating corporate pizza that they won't notice the results of until they hit 40ish. If they really want to stop the big corporations then they have to stop supporting them. It really really needs to start with the food. I'm sorry to inform all of you that that crap you buy in the grocery store is poison, specially designed to shut you down by a certain age, and make you passive. Yes, stop rioting within the prison and demanding better conditions. Just step out of it, and walk away. That takes true courage.
sorry but you didnt understand what i was saying. i said take the corporation, make great pizza and distribute it among the needy instead of selling it to the people who can afford it (which is, because its crap, a lot). i didnt say boycott the corporation and look for better corporations selling healthier stuff. anyone can do that on himself if he feels pizzaland is ruining his health. im sure knowledge about what crap they are delivering is appreciated but you dont change shit in history by eating other food.
Hi Sheep, I am not happy with the answers you have received either. The one about McDonald's and Walmart begins to touch upon it, but doesn't give enough. This is something that can't be explained in just a few sentences in a forum, but I will give a couple of examples and an awesome book to read that will enlighten anyone who cares to learn. It boils down to this...big corporations are out to make as much money as they can by providing products for the masses as cheaply as they can. Food is the best example I can think of. The whole "matrix" as I like to call it, is supported by the big food corporations. Civilization as they know and want it to be would collapse without it. However, they are mass producing food the cheapest way they can. They do not care about nutrition. The soil is now stripped of most of it's nutrition and the plants being grown are sickly and unable to fend off pests and diseases. Big Food has responded to this with Monsanto, and they have produced genetically modified versions of our food that is inferior, and toxic. Big Food does not want any competition and they have paid government to pass laws which effectively shut down local free range, humane, and organically grown food, herbalists, and any other competition. They have used their money to pay for junk science to deceive the public about food safety and so get their laws passed. This same junk science has been used to "prove" that their inferior processed foods are safe while the truth is that they are slowly killing people. People have more disease now than ever. Of course Big Pharma is cashing in on this like flies on shit. Worst of all, the genetically modified plants are crossbreeding and contaminating healthy organic plants. This is all I'm going to say about this, because you should do some work yourself if you truly care to know. I highly recommend that everyone in your shoes read the David Icke Guide To Global Conspiracy And How To End It, and please ignore the nonsense you have heard about Icke on mainstream media. Here is also an excellent website giving real nutrition and health information that will enlighten many. This website will also be a great place to come to for information after these protests are over and we have won. I also want to say that most of the people who are giving you the reason for the protest are focusing on lots of the wrong things. Here is the website and articles...I am unable to post the web address, but simply type in gaia back to the garden. com and put dashes between each word. I recommend the articles under "the benefits of organic food", "primal diet", and especially the home page.
Best wishes on your journey!
Here is one article I would highly recommend-
http://www.gaia-back-to-the-garden.com/how-much-does-food-cost.html
Thank you. I've been issued a lot of work in my college. So, I'll try to get back to this as soon as I can...it's going to take me a while, though. And, that there are many suggestions that I think I should take into consideration.
The video with the trader just shook me a bit.
Also, for "fun." : http://www.wallstreetallstars.com/2011/09/26/new-study-%e2%80%93-traders-are-worse-than-psychopaths/
Do you remember what your interest rate was at the bank just a few years ago? Do you remember when you didn't have to spend lots of time online to get a plane ticket because the airline actually had humans doing that service? Do you remember when the "fine print" on a contract was not pages and pages of illegible "terms of service"? For a mortgage? a retirement fund? Do you remember when banks didn't call the debt you owe on your credit card an "asset"? Do you remember when middle class Americans were confident their kids would move up the social ladder? Do you remember when you didn't need an excessively high-paying job in order to pay the debt on your secondary education? Do you remember when Halliburton was only helping oil companies and not getting huge contracts to support war? Do you remember when prisons were not a business? Do you remember when your health insurance rates did not go up 20% annually? Do you remember when American companies were proud to have their HQ on American soil? proud to be social stakeholders who brought something to the local communities? Wall Street is a symbol for many of these things driven in part by the world getting smaller, technology becoming more and more powerful, dictatorships like China maintaining semi-slave labor, US politicians being emasculated by corporations, citizens being less and less engaged in democratic debate, think-tanks inventing science, rotating doors between regulators, legislators and industries and finally communication agencies keeping everyone on message.
People are generally unhappy with the state of inequality in America and this is an attempt to air their grievances. It is my belief that while their feelings are justified, nobody has taken a leadership position here and they lack direction, and this is why everybody is confused, and support has grown slowly. Many on this forum have asked similar questions. Please watch the following videos and you can get caught up. They really are worth the time if you truly care to understand.
This is a noted philosopher and Harvard professor discussing the inequality and some social implications: http://fora.tv/2011/07/08/Michael_Sandel_Government_and_the_Common_Good#fullprogram
This is a 4 part documentary that won some awards, really well done, and it helps you get a sense of what people around the world are feeling: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWU65Zbka4E
This has been circulated on the forum as one idea of how to improve things, it a bit slow to start but you'll get into it if you give it a chance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swkq2E8mswI
And finally, a great, short video from BBC news this week. It is a trader telling it how it is, kind of refreshing and terrifying at the same time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC19fEqR5bA
Thank you, I will watch these when I have a better connection, for these videos cannot load for me at the moment.
No problem, I hope you do. And please share them with others. People need to know that its okay to be mad about this.
The main thing is, I just want to know why they pin this down on Wall Street.
I think it is suppose to be a statement that the financial sector is responsible for the inequality they are protesting... but this is my 4th day trying to figure it out. I think the answer is, they aren't quite sure.
Hopefully, other members may come and give their insight.
Because many people prefer to take the easy road and place blame on others rather than take a look in the mirror. WS symbolizes an industry that is currently and easy target. Who cares if they don't know the difference between an investment bank, retail bank, hedge fund, venture cap. firm, or any of the other players.
Are you suggesting somehow it is the demonstrators fault that Wall Street invented derivatives? Moody's turned the other way? Clinton/Bush/Obama are enamored of Goldman-Sachs execs? The press, government, banks and many economists were telling Americans that their house was a safe place to put their retirement money; that real estate was a road paved with milk and honey. Are you now saying its their fault for being so naive?
What I am saying, is that individuals should take responsibility for their own well-being as opposed to trying to pin the tail on the donkey.
There's plenty of blame to go around and plenty of people who should accept it. Whether it's the government, the banks, rating agencies, the mortgage brokers, the people buying their third and fourth homes to flip for a profit or people buying homes will above their means or spending their money on frivolous luxuries. I'm sure everyone here knows of many people who burrowed to purchase an extra car, boat, motorcycle, new plasma TV, or whatever, as opposed to saving or making sound investments. At the end of the day, it's the people who stopped paying their bills which brought things to the edge of collapse.
Times are not easy now. But putting one's efforts into frivolously placing blame on others is not going to get anyone very far. People should focus more on themselves and how they can better themselves.
Not sure what you're trying to get at with derivatives. For one, WS did not invent them as they have been around for centuries and are mostly used to hedge against losses of one's assets. You do realize that buying car insurance is essentially a put option? Life insurance is the same. Even signing a prenuptial agreement is an option. Derivatives are all around us.
This movement often seems to remind me of Stan's Dad and his newly purchased Margarita Mixer.
Thanks for engaging us on the subject PE. Look, we both know that when a poor person steals something, he goes to jail, maybe for a long time. 'Wall Street' sold financial instruments to the public, advertising them as safe investments, when they were privately betting on those instruments to fail. Scamming people is tantamount to theft and is illegal.
Wall Street share a lot of the blame for this collapse, and you can say Mom and Pop share a lot of the blame as well. But here's the critical difference: Wall Street bankers -- to reward themselves for blowing up the American financial system -- collected record bonuses with tax-payer bailout money. Record bonuses, tax-payer bailout money, a colossally wrecked financial system, entire pensions and retirements poof gone, meanwhile the financial sector is making record profits. Shit is royally fucked up, and the global economy is going to continue to get very, very volatile because fundamentally NO changes have taken place to correct the glitches in the financial system that caused the collapse. Why wouldn't they want to fix the system? Because Wall Street can game it. The economy collapsed, and Wall Street has never been richer. The essence of Wall Street is making money. Why the f* would they fix the system if every time the system breaks they make unbelievable amounts of money? The rest of us, the 98% of us or so who are not inside Wall Street, and will almost definitely never have enough money to be inside Wall Street, need to demand that the system be fixed, because we (the vast, vast majority of the planet) will be the ones to suffer when shit hits the fan again.
I understand you are saying the average American is probably as blameworthy as the average person, but I hope you understand, that blameworthy or not, it's not in the spirit of a population to sit by contentedly while our quality of life declines, and the richest among us meanwhile have never been more comfortable by profiting off our misfortune. This is literally why revolutions happen, and that's what you are seeing with Occupy Wall Street. At some point, unless we take immediate corrective actions, there will almost certainly be more financial meltdowns. The cancer (let's say it's unregulated derivatives) is still in the system. If the rich have disproportionate control of the government (which they presently do have through lobbying and campaign finance) when that meltdown happens, it will not be good for the average voter who is being inadequately represented by their politicians.
Thanks for reading, hope this added something to the discussion for you.
I think where we differ in opinion is on the "people should focus on themselves" part. It's a question of power differentials. Certain people have the capacity (financial, intellectual, physical, logistic) to do that - other people don't. And this is often class-related or social-network-related. I have been wealthy and I have been poor and now I'm in between. I can assure you that being invited to those cocktail parties where you can chit-chat with a high level civil servant or corporate wonk really helps you get things accomplished in life. At times I miss the ease of that. I believe the dialog between the (non-rich) constituents and those governing is very one-sided - which is ironic in a wired world. Being able to withhold your vote every 3 or 4 years is not a strong enough modality for voters. Why not use the internet to really tap into the desiderata of a constituency instead of using focus groups and costly malleable surveys? In smaller countries citizens can literally shut down every major city and the government has to take heed. That just doesn't happen in the US. (My guess is this kind of sit-in simply could not happen in DC - even though they are the ultimate target). Another way in which we differ I imagine is that I believe in a civilized country government has a mandate to protect its citizenry from excess be it climactic, ecclesiastic, governmental or corporate. My hunch is that the time will come for protesters to make proposals but for now they need to vent the fact that they don't feel heard by anyone. The French revolution started out with demonizing and ended with the creation of a Republic (followed by a monarchy but that's another story!!). P.S. Also I apologize for the misuse of derivatives. I meant Credit Default Swaps.
There are millions of people in this country who eat at McDonalds and shop at Walmart every day without being aware of the cheap quality of food or products that they sell and how it's produced. They are unaware of how these companies destroyed quality mom and pop businesses. What else do you expect from Sheeple ?
frankly, i think most people are aware of the cheap quality of food from McDonalds and Walmart, and most people are definitely aware of the fact these companies destroyed mom and pop businesses.
littleg, i don't think you should call the average person 'sheeple,' i don't think that is keeping in spirit with this movement as Occupy Wall Streeters representing the 99%. after all, your basically saying YOU are representing sheep! i think if you ask most people, they will tell you that they agree McDs and Walmart make shit products and they put mom and pop out of business. the problem is that not enough people are standing up against these facts. if you harass the public, calling them 'sheeple,' you alienate and basically insult those people, and discourage them from participating. the goal of this movement should be to get the 99% onto the streets, so the 1% can't refuse to acknowledge our discontent. i'm happy you support the cause littleg, but i think we should make sure we are friendly to the 'Sheeple' because we need a hell of a lot of people to join this movement if we want revolutionary, quality of life enriching results for as many people as possible.
cheers mate!
what
By the way, McDonalds and Walmart are controlled by Wallstreet. Now you get the picture ?
Sort of. I just want to know how they're doing it.