Forum Post: can we occupy the JP Morgan bldg?
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 13, 2011, 5:03 p.m. EST by ghost1love
(35)
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Does China Sonogol still own it? Who organized the art show? Its inside (good for coming winter) AND its on wall st. . . .
OWS will not succeed unless the people who represent the movement start conducting themselves like professionals. Stop using fowl language, dress and talk like professionals.
yes
JP Morgan ...founder of the criminal Federal Reserve!! hope they occupy the place! DNC and RNC in bed on corruption!
JP Morgan ...founder of the criminal Federal Reserve!! hope they occupy the place! DNC and RNC in bed on corruption!
JP Morgan ...founder of the criminal Federal Reserve!!
JP Morgan ...founder of the criminal Federal Reserve!!
Non-violent civil disobedience does not generally include willful criminal trespass.
If you want to start a riot, just walk up and punch a cop.
Get real.
Do you mean we should break the law and tresspass?
no, i'm sayin its private property that we can't kicked off of if we have permission. If they allowed the 'No Comment' exhibition happen there, perhaps they'd be sympathetic to letting the general assembly set up offices there.
That building has been empty for YEARS. Since fundraising has been effective for ows, we might even be able to pay some kind of rent and get insurance. However, strategic analysis of space in lower manhattan, leaves few possibilities should liberty square get 'cleaned' by the city.
i'm actually all for taking and demanding rights to stay in public space (washington square/union square/times square), but the fact of being in the financial district presents some unique challenges. We'd be able to organize daily marches and meetings, without the conflict of violating laws on taking up public space. If we want to sleep on the streets we need to get lawyers to help us with the law that *should protects our rights to do so.
all that being said, i'd like to maintain our stronghold @liberty square, contingent plans are only part of the revolutionary process. decentralization might be something work thinking about too.
Of course. Doesn't mean there won't be arrests. When the numbers are too great they can't stop everyone
This creates the prisoner's dilemma problem. Can you trust your co-conspirators to stand firm with you when everyone is getting arrested? They can't stop everyone, but they can stop a lot through arrests. The city doesn't have to jail you immediately. They will charge you, and arrange a court date. If you don't show up, they will go after you, and you will be in more trouble. On top of any fines, you may face jail time. If OWS protestors want to stand firm against the banks, they must insure that everyone is willing to make such sacrifices and deal with these things when they happen, and still maintain the will to fight during and after these things happen. You can't face down JP Morgan if people balk at the prospect of legal consequences.
If enough people are arrested, they simply can't process them. Just think of the cost and public defenders needed to represent the people.
Words of advice on arrest: expect it will happen, do NOT resist, keep your mouth shut - its your right.
You can't talk yourself out of arrest, and anything can and will be used against you, not for you.
Show up for all your court dates, make sure your public ally supplied lawyer is communicating well for and with you, request a new one if you're not getting the proper representation - its your right, and they will have to pay for it all.
Jail is not a real threat. Unless you do something damaging and stupid. So don't be afraid, that costs them money to jail people. Its usually just an overnight hold at most.
Fight for your freedom.
I agree... but most people will balk even at the sight of legal fees and lost pay from missing work. They don't have the room to process everyone at once, but they can certainly schedule you out to next year if they want to. Plus, the courts make money through fines, and the lawyers make money through providing services. The 1% would view that as "good" for the economy.
It's a matter of priority. Is it worth the chance to change this corruption or cower in fear?
The courts have to levy fines, but they aren't crushing and since the legal and prison system is overrun with costs and overcrowding they can't "punish" us as well as they would like.
I don't know man... I've been in court before for more than a traffic ticket. You say that the fines aren't that overwhelming. $1000 fine is pretty overwhelming for me. Plus, if I hired a lawyer that's another two to three grand. I agree that jail time is out, but who knows? Are you willing to take that risk? It doesn't feel very good to be in that position, and they keep you waiting and wondering for quite a while. Can you live a normal life knowing that in 6 months to a year, you might have to serve time? Speculating is one thing, but having to actually live it is very different. BTW, I like your fight club reference... I'd fight gandhi... LOL
It's a mindset. People are having the same conflict about going all in. And it's a personal choice.
All we seem to have anymore is fear. Fear of losing our jobs, not making our bills, dying because we can't afford healthcare, the list goes on and most of us share these fears.
I struggle to let go of the fear; i try think it out rationally, what do we have to gain or lose by trying, is it worth it... I struggle but want to let go of the fear. I want to make this world a better place than I came into. Where we are headed is unacceptable and unsustainable.
Ps, yep fight club. Over at zero hedge there's many "investor types" who have been around this mess, worked on wall st (or still do) and want to make a change.
"All we seem to have anymore is fear. Fear of losing our jobs, not making our bills, dying because we can't afford healthcare, the list goes on and most of us share these fears. I struggle to let go of the fear; i try think it out rationally, what do we have to gain or lose by trying, is it worth it... I struggle but want to let go of the fear. I want to make this world a better place than I came into. Where we are headed is unacceptable and unsustainable"
I feel the same way. But I think that this time your instincts are correct. We aren't at the point of suffering in this country where putting all your chips on the table and showing your cards makes sense. I think if a more authoritarian state were imposed on us, coupled with even greater poverty than we have seen before... then people will accept the "what have i got to lose argument". Until then, these OWS protests are merely practice. That's the redeeming quality of OWS. We are practicing for the real thing. Anyway, I'm gonna take the subway over to OWS right now, check out how things are going. TTYL.
no you can't its private property. oh wait that doesn't stop you
Private property paid for thru shady public stealing.
or bought with money that i earned and paid taxes on
Exactly. Upvoted.
That's right, we're unstoppable.
Here we come, Jamie Dimon.
tell that to some police decked out in riot gear, a few swat teams, or maybe the army
Freedom is worth the fight.
Besides, how will it look mowing down protesters with heavy armament? The whole world will watch. Would do more for the cause.
batons and tear gas are not heavy armaments. try some m16s, anti tank weapons 40mm grenades and miniguns mounted on blackhawks