Forum Post: An economic solution that even the 1% can agree on.
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 22, 2011, 12:45 p.m. EST by LobbyDemocracy
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This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I think it is important as we move forward to come up with arguments that can draw broad support. There is a simple economic argument against the current wealth distribution and tax inequality in this country.
We are a consumer based economy. 70% of our economy is driven by consumer spending. As the top 1% abduct more and more of the income and wealth they choke their consumers and kill the businesses that they are trying to support.
Henry Ford wisely attempted to make it possible for everyone who worked for him to be able to afford a Ford. It was not out of charity. It was an understanding that the working class is also the consuming class. "It is not the employer who pays the wages. Employers only handle the money. It is the customer who pays the wages."
The actions of the 1% have been killing the economy they rely on. They have forgotten that you can shear a sheep many times by fleece it only once. By paying the working class more, by hiring more workers, by respecting the labor of the working class, they will actually be improving not only the world that the 99% live in but also the world that they live in.
1.Take citizenship away from corporations.
Take a look at Germany. Unlike the typical reaction of US business (culture) to manufacturing competition, the German nation -- culturally -- decided to develop their manufacturing to be competitive in the face of cheap external labor. The difference is in the notion of a common FATE. With it, came focus and from that came action.
The problem is American business is LAZY and shortsighted. They are not charged with the common weal. They do this over and over. The likes of GM got lazy in the 70's and Japanese came in a rolled them.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/businessdesk/2010/04/making-use-of-employees-talent.html http://www.pbs.org/newshour/businessdesk/2011/07/the-no-layoff-company----in-oh.html
All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing
I hope that I am a good man, because I am doing something. Check out www.lobbydemocracy.com to see my solution. Or you can read about it, and others support/criticism of it at http://www.occupywallst.org/forum/i-have-spent-1000-hours-on-this-solution-please-ta/.
You could not have said it any better. Allowing the consumer to have enough money to consume enough to live comfortably undeniably contributes to equal opportunities to everyone in this country.
Except we have accepted a tax code that does just the opposite.
You say: "By paying the working class more, by hiring more workers, by respecting the labor of the working class, they will actually be improving not only the world that the 99% live in but also the world that they live in."
True...but global competition (which is good as long as it's fair) means American labor competes against labor in China, India, Singapore, etc.
We need to provide training/re-training/skill improvement for American workers. If your skills are worth more, employers will pay more. Most American employers want to hire Americans and pay fair wages. But if that puts them at a competitive disadvantage, they'll send jobs overseas or cut wages here.
Want to make more money? Improve your job skills. And we should make it our #1 priority to help folks improve job skills.
I believe in the power of education. I agree that it helps drive the job market. What I am talking about really is a restructuring of the tax code to prevent all of the money from going to the top 1%. It has been a policy choice over the last several decades, but it is not one rooted in economics or in fairness. It both is unjust and unwise. We have been told that if we condense the wealth it will be good for the economy. It is not true. How about we work on some trickle up economics for a while.
Tax code absolutely has to be addressed. Fair Tax, Flat Tax, modified 9-9-9 Plan...any of them would be flatter & fairer, and would ensure that even most of the super-rich would not be able to circumvent the tax code by buying-off politicians to get tax exemptions/loopholes.
I know you're not advocating forced redistribution of wealth, but some (many?) are, and that's WRONG...Just like reparations are not fair to innocent people who did nothing to black people, confiscating-and-redistributing wealth is a BAD idea.
Instead, make the playing field level and fair...and ensure everyone has the tools to make their own success.
We should ensure everyone has equal and ample opportunity. But we can not and should not ensure everyone gets equal results.
America is the "Land of Opportunity"...NOT the land where everyone gets the same, regardless of how hard they work.
Did I ever propose that? I am talking about an unfair distribution of taxes, that is not only unfair, but inefficient. I never said anything about getting rid of the market economy or its rewards.
I know...and I said "I know you're not advocating forced redistribution of wealth"...but I noted that many are (even in other comments on this post), and that's a bad idea.
I think it is a bad idea as well, You do have to remember, however, that the tax code and government in general are inherently a redistribution of wealth. And currently we are redistributing wealth away from the working class and towards the top 1%.
They don't want to make you poor, stupid. The more prosperous they are, the more jobs they will offer, and the better paying they will be. Instead of beating on big business, you should be working your butt off to help make them more profitable during these hard times so that they can continue to provide jobs, not crapping on them!
In case you missed it we have rolled out tax cut after tax cut to support the "Job Creators." This resulted in an overall loss of jobs and 65% of all wealth creation going to the top 1%. As far as I am concerned more of the same is not going to be the way to go. You are bucking both economic principles and ignoring history. Don't know how you come to your perspectives, but I like to ground mine in a little bit of fact.
Tax cuts, monetary easing, and Gov't spending programs (classic Keynesian stimulus) undoubtedly kept more people employed, and the economy stronger than without those programs.
Maybe each could have been done more effectively, but each helped.
Yes, I don't know what these uber rich are after. They already have more money than they can spend, why do they want to make us poor too? Do they have some greater motive than money?
I think the assessment that it is illogical greed that often drives them is true. Even if we could shift them to a more logical form of greed it would aid everyone.
Agreed, and I particularly like the statement -- as the top 1% abduct more and more of the income and wealth they choke their consumers and kill the businesses that they are trying to support, as Henry Ford wisely said -- so perhaps you would consider our group's proposal of an alternative online direct democracy of government and business at http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategically_weighted_policies_organizational_operating_structures_tactical_investment_procedures-448eo and then join our group's 20 members committed to that plan at: http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
Actually come they are not "abducting" more wealth. You greedy communists who are obsessed with this idiotic, anti-American movement continually want more and more without having to work for it.
Agreed, working 75% less and having having 75% more luxury at the same time, like the 1%, is certainly a just and equitable objective.
For example, there is an immediately effective and efficient solution to the problem of global warming, and the “greedy” 1% system which is creating it, as follows:
If the 99%, as Home Town Banks of 65,000 Members, divide themselves into 16,384 Vehicle Investment Groups of 4 Members, with each group of 4 Members purchasing a hybrid-diesel-hummer-limo Cab which they then put into their Town Cab Fleet of 16,384 Cabs, then this would reduce their Individual Transportation Costs by 75% (Cost of 1 Cab / 4 Members = 75% less cost per member), and yet they would have a Luxury Limo Cab available to them, out of 16,000 cabs in their Town, five minutes after calling for one, but not necessarily the specific luxury cab in which they own 25%. And most importantly, let's not forget the lessening of Mother Nature's burden from having 75% fewer cars with no traffic jams, and thus 75% less CO2.
Furthermore, the list of simple productivity improvements like this one -- which the 99% want but the 1% don't want -- are endless, beginning with our 48 Tactical Investment Procedures. But as their FIRST of Forty-Eight Tactical Investment Procedures, the 99% must control the banks as Bank Owner-Voters, and therein as Business Owner-Voters, before they can control their Town (and National) design in this manner which is much less costly (in terms of the worker hours needed to maintain it by 75% too) and yet have 75% greater luxury (such as a limo cab) at the same time. Consequently, to decentralize Banking & Business Ownership into a Focused Direct Democracy by Occupation & Generation is to lower cost 75% is to lower price 75% is to lower work 75% is to increase luxury by 75% is to lower Mother Nature's burden by 75%.
And that's just 1 of 48 Tactical Investment Procedures in our group at http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems starting from where the 99% are now, and then you can take the 99% even deeper technically (or mathematically) into an even better resource-based system, such as that cited at TheVenusProject.com and VictoryCities.com.
So you see, once you get people thinking technically (or mathematically) like this, without arguing for argument's sake, in a way they can understand today, THEN you can move them to even high levels of optimally effective and efficient Town (& National) designs where the word "greed" and the phrase "lack of moral fiber" doesn't even exist, such as a resource-based economy, but which the people are not yet technically (or mathematically) prepared to understand at this time, but that can change as you improve their technical (or mathematical) capabilities in ways they do understand first, such as the example above, agreed?
I am a little busy with my own venture. Working on restructuring the way that the American people interact with their government. Site is www.lobbydemocracy.com. There is a thread commenting on the idea at http://www.occupywallst.org/forum/i-have-spent-1000-hours-on-this-solution-please-ta/.
Oh right, sorry, then I hope you'll consider joining the forces of our groups at some point as previously suggested, for our collective knowledge as larger groups is 10 times greater than our individual knowledge, agreed?
Completely agreed. I personally have to be careful aligning myself with other organizations because of the neutrality of mine. That being said I hope that we can find a way to work together as organizations as we move forward. My organization is an open conversation and I hope that your opinions and the opinions of your organization will be heard.
Oh that's right, sorry, you mentioned that before about "neutrality", and I am equally agreed "that we can find a way to work together as organizations as we move forward", just as you suggested. Thank you for reminding me, and I'll try not to get our wires crossed too much in the future given your neutrality.
I wish that I could personally side with a lot more, but I am trying to act as a mediator, and can't align myself with too many issues besides representing the masses.
Agreed, the Online Direct Democracy our group has proposed is deliberately designed to act as a "mediator" as well, and thus align its 48 different Business Investment Groups with 48 different Policies, Organizations, and Procedures "representing the masses" by Occupation & Generation as you suggested, for neutrality becomes a bit more difficult when you starting talking about 48 different Tactical Investment Procedures in 48 Business Investment Groups in terms of their dollars and sense, but it's possible nevertheless given a Online Direct Democracy, and related Lobbying Organization such as your own.
They don't care for the 99%, the 1% are free to move to another place, Switzerland, Germany, Dubai, Monaco. You cannot make a deal with locusts.
The system they are using is broken. This is not a problem that is bound to location. They are running the show, and it is killing the show for everyone.
All true. Excellent points. But greed is not a patient or logical state of mind. It's maximum profit. Maximum wealth. More more more. I want more and I want it NOW.
That's greed. It's become a worldwide epidemic.
Except you can sell them on long term greed as opposed to short term greed. A lot easier than trying to sell them on charity.
wow ! how ?
My answer would be to use the lobbying organization that I have founded to support the majority. It is www.lobbydemocracy.com. There is a fairly active thread running about it at http://www.occupywallst.org/forum/i-have-spent-1000-hours-on-this-solution-please-ta/.
seems to small of an idea. where is the one that supports the ALL and not just the MOST. or majority. why trade a system of dollar for a system based on who has the most numbers?
Because the system that has the most numbers is a democratic system.
if we are here , your saying democratic failed. why not use this statement to create a better system. an engineer gains the most important information only when a design fails. Seeing a bridge down in the water can add to their level of focus for future resolution. A smarter engineer will look at the past failures of other projects before lifting a finger in there attempt at design.
I am saying democratic was overrun by the influence of money. I am proposing a way to take it back.
Actually freedom in America has been overrun by socialist idiots like yourself. Return to true Capitalism! Vote out Obama the communist who's ruining our country!
Define true capitalism. True capitalism involves all sorts of necessary conditions that are never met. There is no such thing as true capitalism. There are all sorts of market interventions and they pick winners and losers. The market interventions that we have been using have been eroding the beneficial nature of a market based economy. When you artificially move all of the money to the capitalist class it erodes the system. The balance of the system that helps sustain its efficiency is based on the competition in the market both on the supply side and the demand side. If you erode the demand by artificially consolidating wealth through a bias tax code you erode the system that you are trying to support.
it's a broken down car . recycle it into something better. it isn't the influence of money , its the influence of WANT that overruns a mans heart. money is just the best mode of transportation for "want" to ride in.without money it's sure to ride in other methods , sex , land , pride , family , salt. who knows.
How do we get them to agree to change the system?
define a better way to manage there company , show potential profit increases.