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Forum Post: All of you are missing the point...

Posted 2 years ago on Oct. 14, 2011, 12:24 a.m. EST by turak (-812)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

All of you are haggling about money.

Get rid of it.

Instead of a money economy: based upon corruption, opposition, selfishness and greed: create your own self-sufficient communities and economies based upon cooperation, trust and fun.

If you give someone a million dollars: are you helping them? No. They just gave you some pieces of worthless paper...

If someone wants to help you by giving their time and energy and resources, and sharing what they have with you, and you share your time and energy and help them: neither of you need to exchange paper to do this. Human society functions because it is based upon cooperation.

Instead of a paper economy: create an economy based upon hugs&kisses . Have everyone pay for whatever they receive with hugs and kisses. Do you want to be rich in paper money, or rich in hugs and kisses? Create your own self-sufficient communities based upon gratitude:instead of entitlement... communities based upon generosity and giving instead of selfishness and taking.

You're all missing the point and missing the boat. Let the 1% have all the money in the world: then do not deal with them and don't buy anything they try to sell you and don't use their money. Get rid of money. The 1% will starve to death and die, and all of you 99% will be happy and healthy. You are being suckered into playing their game on their terms. Fighting over who has more or less money does not make you any better than they are. All it does is: lower you down to their level of selfish greed, and the love of money.

You have a choice: you can love money or you can love humans: you can't do both. Wake up.

1535 Comments

1535 Comments


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[-] 3 points by JesusofNazereth (5) from New Orleans, LA 2 years ago

We really shouldn't blame anyone, there really is no good or bad, our society is just the symtom of a disconnected mind. We have lost our connection with nature, the thing that we truly are, and our creations reflect that, full of fear and suffering, madness. So let's get reconnected, allow everything, love ourselve's as amazing expressions of nature, love everything and be the best expression of our true selves that we can be....

[-] 0 points by radarluv (1) 2 years ago

how are you replying to this? Morse code? telepathically? Are you on some sort of electronic device made possible by mankind?

[-] -2 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

the exit door for jesus freaks is to your RIGHT

[-] 2 points by annnnooon (13) 2 years ago

Money is only powerful because we have granted our consent to it's power. Those who have the most money thus have the most power, and when individuals lack money, they feel powerless.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You have not 'granted' anyone anything you fucking moronic pompous prig. You have been SUCKERED into it, you've been BRAINWASHED into it. You've been PROGRAMMED FROM BIRTH into it, you've been SOLD into it, you've been FORCED into it, you're been INTIMIDATED into it. You've been given NO OTHER CHOICES but to give into your money culture of greed and dehumanization Because you are an ape and apes like to copy other apes: you've copied the 1%. You want to have what they have., You wan to live like they live. None of you have the intelligence to stop your moronic copying and aping of the top 1%. The reason you feel powerless is because all you morons are far too stupid to realize you HAVE any power.

[-] 2 points by PDXer (4) 2 years ago

You need to check out the "Venus Project"... a resource based economy instead of a monetary one.... a world Without Money..... based on humanity.

Ahhhhh..... can we usher this in please... like now? globally....

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

I checked out the Venus Project: it's a bunch of regurgitated crap. It doesn't even begin to deal with the major myths and fallacies and evils of civilization. You must be in grammar school to be naive enough to swallow that junk. They speak everyone 'enjoying' a high standard of living, and using all the earth's 'resources' to that end. They also speak off humans having a 'right' to all the resources of the earth. This means they are just another exploitation culture. A human culture based upon exploitation of resources is destructive towards the entire earth for a simple reason: This kind of arrogance means that no other living organism on earth has any rights whatsoever except one species: the human sap: the stupid, brainwashed tool-using destructive human ape. What about the rights of all other living creatures on earth, eh? Have you ever heard of anyone demanding rights for them also?

That insane attitude is exactly what has gotten us all into the mess we are in now. You can blame all the stupid human apes who came before us for the polluted, dying earth you are living in now because all of them were mass murderers.

You are living right now in a system based upon mass slaughter, mass genocide and mass extinction of living species. A system that has become so mechanized, so detached from reality, so inhuman, so insane... that if you asked an ordinary consumer who consumes the dead meat of 2-3 chickens a week to go out, catch a living chicken and kill it, cut off her head, disembowel her guts, pluck out her feathers and then eat her: they would vomit in horror at what you are asking them to do to an innocent living creature and refuse to do it... YET... because the mechanized mass slaughterhouses are hidden away from view, and you do not SEE and HEAR what happens when you kill a living creature: you can remain IGNORANT of the horror of shedding blood, and the huge emotional trauma which results from any living person killing another living creature.

Soldiers who are sent into battle and forced to kill people come back internally and spiritually damaged and wounded for life. The most passionate antiwar activists are veterans of war. Your insane spectator culture has replaced the insane killing fields of the Roman Arenas where insane Roman citizens screamed for more blood and more butchery as an entertainment... with video games of abstract images: insane twisted, sick depictions of violence, killing and destruction and hate: all nicely sanitized so the players never feel what it is to actually do violence to another living thing, and they never feel the pain and agony and terror of someone doing violence to you.

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Why don't you join? What's your excuse?

[-] 2 points by wweddingMadeintheUSA (135) 2 years ago

Your Idea is cute though

[-] 4 points by booshington (397) 2 years ago

Yeah I'm sure 99% of Americans would love to just give up all their money. Because we're known around the world for being a people that doesn't really care much about money.

[-] 4 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Exactly: that is why this thread is so big: every fucking idiot of an American greed merchant believing in the sanctity of MONEY! as their god: is reacting with religious fervor at the possibility of their temples of evil being emptied of sin. As you are too.

[-] 0 points by Kickinthenuts (212) 2 years ago

Hugs & kisses to you

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Keep on fighting: you're on the side that is RIGHT...

But you need to wake up and realize that squabbling about money only lowers you down to their lowest level of greed. FUCK ALL OF THEM. FUCK the rich: use ALL of your resources and money to create your own communities that will EXCLUDE every for-profit venture and business in the world from your society. CLEANSE YOURSELVES of the entire capitalist system and you will not only WIN, you will create a human community an EGALITARIAN INTELLIGENT community based upon intelligent EGALITARIAN COOPERATION that will be a million times better than the mansions of the filthy rich .. AND not only will you succeed: you will have the pleasure of watching the whole capitalist system CRUMBLE AND FALL while you don't do ANYTHING to it except LEAVE THE ENTIRE SYSTEM and let it go to hell which is where it is headed and where it will end up.

But in order to do this you must change your INNER selves first. You're already on the path of doing it: you're already organizing yourselves intelligently WITHOUT any leaders: all you need is more long-range planning and you will be OUT of Liberty Square and in your intelligently PLANNED communities and you will only get better and better and healthier while the rich get sicker and sicker.

[-] 1 points by dreamingforward (394) from Tacoma, WA 2 years ago

You know you are right, eventually. But the peaceful world that you seek can only happen after the historic injustices still present within the human and earth soul are corrected. Try asking the Native Americans, for example, who are suffering right now, to give only hugs and kisses and stop worrying about living on their allotted "reservation". Or try telling that to the Orthodox Jews who still defend their truth amidst the dominance of scientific materialism that would gladly wipe it out. You'll be spit right upon sir.

There are three things required to get lasting PEACE: Truth, Love, and Justice. Omit any of the three and you'll only generate another turn of the wheel....

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You're thinking like a mass animal. There is no such thing as Truth, Love or Justice in the world. There is no identical homogeneous mass. You're babbling like an 18th century philosopher.

I'm speaking of practical self-sufficient egalitarian communities without any leaders made up of either 12, 24 or 36 individuals. Once you create your own community and make it as beautiful and flourishing as possible, once you CREATE BEAUTY... then LIVE in the beauty you create, LIVE in your community, work on the land you live on: and don't go worrying about what 6.8 billion other people outside of your community are doing: got that?

[-] 0 points by tympan55 (124) 2 years ago

Here you say, "there is no such thing as truth," yet you carry on about the existence of universal truth. Which is it asshole? You are nothing but a jive ass bullshit artist. Go live in a cave, your self sufficient community is an impossible proposition and no gives a shit about a misanthropic loser like you.

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You quoted me out of context:

I said there is not such thing as Truth, Love or Justice IN THE WORLD

Which is vague, so I'll clarify what I mean to you.

I mean there is no universal truth, love or justice in the hearts and minds of 6-8 billion insane greedy selfish apes like you; there is no truth, love or justice in all human civilization except the Universal truth INDIVIDUALS discover and practice. There will never be a universal truth for the overpopulated mass of billions of people. There will never be a universal love for billions of people, there will never be a universal justice for 6.8 billion people for a simple reason: these 6.8 billion people will never all come together, they will never share anything with each other, they will never learn from each other, they will never become identical mass-manufactured units, they will never become a single homogeneous mass of people.

Humans are genetically designed to function as autonomous individuals, and as social animals in groups no bigger than 12, 24 or 36. You only have one life to live and you cannot develop any close intimacy, or love or discover any truth, or practice or enforce any justice with millions of strangers.

This is why small self-sufficient communities of 12, 24 or 36 people that are egalitarian and have no leaders is the only intelligent answer to global capitalist system and the culture of mindless consumption, waste, pollution and degradation of the environment. Do you understand now?

Or are you a troll?

[-] 1 points by tympan55 (124) 2 years ago

Wow! This is the first time you actually attempted to explain anything. You say that individuals in isolation from each other will independently arrive at universal truth by developing what you call the sense of wonder. Universal truth is derived from the particular and accidental manifestations of the individual. You attribute this process of distillation to the genetically designed function of human beings as autonomous individuals.

In your defense of infinity, you stress the necessity of no two things being identical. However, you describe the genetically designed function of humans arriving at the universal as being identical in each individual: autonomous individuals arriving at an identical universal truth. If the destination of individuals is identical, then their origin must also be identical. The transformation from the particular to the universal expresses a single totality.

You put a lot of stock in the concept of equality. Equality also carries the implication of sameness of identity; an illusion that exists only in the abstract. Nature exists in a dynamic state of aggressive and passive forces acting upon each other. If you concede to decipher the nature of these forces, you forfeit the infinite. Arrival at universal truth and the infinite are mutually exclusive. Arrival is a termination. When you project your ideas about equality on nature you do so as an act a posteriori.

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You are being illogical. Your entire brain is illogical because you are detached from your own body and from the 3-dimensional world you live in.

Most of your sentences do not make any sense.

You are trying to INVENT an excuse so you can deny the existence of UNIVERSAL TRUTHS. Universal truths have no exceptions to them. Because you cannot find anything WRONG in my logical explanation of how the Universe emerged, because you cannot find anything ILLOGICAL in my book:

You are forced into being as illogical and crazy as possible in order to DEFEND against the Universal truths you have read and cannot refute.

First: I am not 'defending' anything. I never 'defend'. I state Universal truths and I explain them logically. All Universal truths are LOGICAL. All LOGIC is Universal. LOGIC is truth... TRUTH is logic. Truth and Logic are the same thing. You cannot be truthful without being logical. You cannot be logical without being truthful

The second you make a mistake in your logic: you start uttering lies. The instant you start uttering lies: you become illogical. That is what all hard SCIENCE is based upon. Logic can be TESTED. Logic can be proven to be true. Illogical assumptions and theories and idea can ALSO be tested, and they can be PROVEN to be untrue. Only when someone finds something which can be tested and nobody can prove it to be untrue: is it taken as scientifically agreed-upon truth of physics. The moment someone finds a way to prove it is untrue, the moment anyone can find an EXCEPTION that proves it is not universally true: then it is no longer a UNIVERSAL TRUTH.

The moment an apple can be tested and not fall to the ground when let go,: then the physical attraction of solid things on earth to the earth is no longer universally true. That has never happened. All apples when let go in midair above the earth fall to the ground.

All things which are illogical are based upon lies. All things which are not true are based upon lies.

There is no 'necessity' of no two things being identical to each other: That is a scientifically proven FACT; not a 'necessity'..

I stress scientifically proven FACTS: because you cannot disprove them. NOBODY CAN DISPROVE A SCIENTIFIC FACT.

That includes idiots like you.

The scientifically proven fact that the sky is blue cannot be disproved. Not by you, not by anyone. Until you get this through your fucking stupid head: you will continue to rail against scientifically proven facts which exist: REGARDLESS of how crazy you happen to be: REGARDLESS of how much you try to deny them. You can insist that he sky is not blue all you fucking want: that does not change the TRUTH: that does not change scientific FACTS. Scientific facts are not subject to personal opinion or debate by imbecil3s like you.

Unless you HUMBLE YOURSELF: and admit these scientific facts are true: you will continue to be a little egotistical snot-nosed, ILLOGICAL, unscientific, imbecile, babbling away and screaming that the sky is not blue, when everyone know it is blue.

The genetically designed function of each species is GENERALLY the same. It is not identically the same.

For instance: the genetic design of snowflakes are generally the same: all snowflakes are hexagonal in structure. USING this general sameness of hexagonal structure of a hexagonal star-shape: The infinite UNIVERSE and Nature can and does create an INFINITE number of unique permutations so that each snowflake ever created on earth is UNIQUELY DIFFERENT and is NOT identical to any other snowflake ever born..

There are damaged snowflakes which have been damaged in their birth so they do not develop as they should: just like there are thalidomide babies born without hand or feet: horrible monstrosities.. due to the cancerous poisons which human civilization has unleashed onto the living earth.

This poisonous destruction of the harmony of the dynamics balances of energy in the Universe is an abomination of Life and how the Universe works and should be wiped out.

Your insane abstract babble is so deranged and crazy:: that other people do not respond to you simply because you are so illogical: you make no sense.

There is no 'destination of individuals'. There is no 'arriving at an identical universal truth' there is no origin of arrival, there is no origin that is identical. There are not passive and aggressive forces in Nature acting upon each. Equality does not im[ply sameness of identity. You're making all of this up in your fucked up brain.

I do not 'put stock' in anything. Equality is not concept. It is how the Universe is designed to function. Nobody can 'concede to decipher' anything. Your words make no semantic sense because you don't know the meanings of the words you use and you do not use them correctly.

In order to make sense: you must first educate yourself and learn how to use words correctly, and you must learn to write English correctly and you must learn how to think logically.

Whatever school you went to did not teach you how to do this. You need to go back to a GOOD school: one that has a GOOD English teacher, who teaches the CORRECT ways of how to write a sentence and how to write a paragraph, and the CORRECT use of words: based upon the CORRECT definition of the world.

The INSTANT you begin to make up your own crazy, imaginary meanings of the words you use: nobody else on earth will be able to understand what the fuck you are babbling about... and what's more... YOU don't understand what YOU are babbling about either.

That's YOUR problem. Nobody else's. Go back to school little boy and learn how to read and write English correctly: and stay off internet forms: you are rotting your brain into total dysfunctional idiocy.

[-] 2 points by tympan55 (124) 2 years ago

you're an asshole

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[-] 0 points by Kickinthenuts (212) 2 years ago

Hugs & kisses to you

[-] 0 points by Tommiethenoncommie (211) 2 years ago

Someone may need corn and the other may need lumber. What happens when one already has enough corn? They invent the currency and credit.

[-] 1 points by 666isMONEY (348) 2 years ago

Tommie: with abundance (150-years ago it took many man-hours to harvest a bushel of corn, nowdays, with modern machinery, it takes very few man-hours to grow/harvest hundreds of bushels of corn and most of that corn is fed to cows & pigs), barter is unnecessary.

Here's a coupla quotes 4 U to think about:

The final step is when the new socialist [communist] society reaches the stage where profit and money disappear. It is through transforming society into a fully productive society, and through reaching in production a level where the material needs of the members of society are satisfied. On that final stage, profit will automatically disappear and there will be no need for money. -- MUAMMAR AL QATHAFI, The Green Book: The Solution of the Economic Problem, pt. 2 (1977)

Finally, when all capital, all production, and all exchange are concentrated in the hands of the people, private ownership will automatically have ceased to exist, money will have become superfluous, and production will have so increased and men will be so much changed that the last forms of the old social relations will also be able to fall away. -- F. ENGELS, Principals of Communism, 1847

[-] 2 points by Tommiethenoncommie (211) 2 years ago

What exactly are you getting at?

[-] 1 points by 666isMONEY (348) 2 years ago

Did U flunk reading comprehension?

[-] 0 points by Tommiethenoncommie (211) 2 years ago

Did you flunk Sociology and common sense?

[-] 1 points by 666isMONEY (348) 2 years ago

Did all these ppl who believe in eliminating money flunk sociology & common sense http://666ismoney.com/MoneyQuotes.html ?

[-] 0 points by Tommiethenoncommie (211) 2 years ago

Rationalizing and being rational are two different things. When Dante wrote The Inferno he included popes and bishops in hell because he was angry with them. There is no truth or realism in such ideologies based on anger.

[-] 1 points by 666isMONEY (348) 2 years ago

Hell, I'd include popes & bishops along with a majority of "Christians" in Hell too. Jesus (if he existed) was the Logos (John 1:1) or logic of god: if it's not logical (like "Saint" Paul), it's not of god.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/666_is_money/3135898114/

[-] 1 points by Tommiethenoncommie (211) 2 years ago

Money actually reduces theft and murder by substituting bartering. However, it should be held as high as it is.

[-] 1 points by ScrewyL (809) 2 years ago

If labor is unneccessary, then so too are people.

[-] 0 points by Kickinthenuts (212) 2 years ago

What??

[-] 2 points by 666isMONEY (348) 2 years ago

Modern machinery should make life easier for us . . . fewer ppl work on farms, few ppl in U$A work at "necessary" jobs yet we are slaves to bankers, 30-year mortgages + interest for cheap sheet-rock & 2x4 homes. Abundance makes barter, hoarding & money, unnecessary.

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

'may need'?

get off this thread: your bullshit is pathetic; You children should be in bed now. If your parents find out what you've been posting they will take away your computer privileges

[-] 2 points by Tommiethenoncommie (211) 2 years ago

I'm trying to have a serious discussion here.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You want to have a serious discussion?

Then answer my questions and I'll answer yours.

If you refuse to answer my questions: then you are not serious about having any discussion whatsoever.

Understand? Either you answer me or I won't answer you. That is what a serious discussion is made of: people answering each others questions and statements.

When you do NOT answer my questions: if you avoid answering me then I will know you are a pathetic bullshitter and I will ignore you from that point on: understand?

[-] 1 points by Tommiethenoncommie (211) 2 years ago

Ok. Go.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

How old are you?

[-] 1 points by Tommiethenoncommie (211) 2 years ago

I'm 41. What made you pick such a cliche question?

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Your last post is missing a reply button: so I'm responding to you via this one: Ask me anything you want and I'll answer you tomorrow: Have to go now.

[-] 0 points by Kickinthenuts (212) 2 years ago

Hugs & kisses to you

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Because it is easy to lie over internet forums and millions of 10-yr old children say they're 41 years old... like you for instance. If you're 41 years old: then you must have gone to school and graduated. What did you learn in school? Anything worth knowing?

[-] 1 points by Tommiethenoncommie (211) 2 years ago

I'm left-handed, so I like creativity. The human brain's infinite capacity amazes me. I find it fun to obtain information in different ways. If you don't mind, let's try a parable: A man owns a farm and tells his son to collect the wheat. The son goes to the wheat and sees weevils had gotten to it, so he sets the field on fire. Some of the corn catches and then the fire dies. Meanwhile, the man tells his daughter to bring water to the pigs. She says no and complains of the hot weather. She quickly concedes and goes to the well, fearing no dinner as punishment for disobedience. One of the pigs is pregnant and sick. Normally, she would remove it from the pen to keep the others safe but it was too heavy and wouldn't move. She decides to lead the others to an unoccupied pen. Over half of the pigs break loose and get away. The rest, except the one, go in. Both the son and the daughter return to their father and explain what happened. Along comes the mother, furious about her hat being scorched and herself being trampled by pigs. Which one does the father strike?

[-] 1 points by Tommiethenoncommie (211) 2 years ago

Brief summary: Math. Real history. Discerning fact from fiction. C++ programming, political science, psychology, physics, quantum theory, looking at all sides of a discussion, and ethics.

[-] -2 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

He kicks you in your crotch so you have to go to the hospital for wasting my time reading your shit

[-] 2 points by nuclearradio (227) 2 years ago

@Tommie: The father admits that he's not a very good farmer or teacher and failed to teach either of his children how to manage the farm in bite-sized, sustainable bits. Perhaps the farmer should have thought about how large his pig pen had gotten, or the fact that he should be planting something else that wouldn't be eaten by weevils. His job now is to remediate the problems and admit guilt, rather than by punishing one party or the other.

[-] 1 points by CrossingtheDivided (357) from Santa Ysabel, CA 2 years ago

Awh, you wise guy!

It's funny that turak condescends to everybody calling them babbling children, yet he appears not to have a wit of maturity, empathy or comprehension ability . . .

It's a shame, because some of his polemics are decent. If only he learned how to receive criticism.

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[-] 0 points by Kickinthenuts (212) 2 years ago

Hugs & kisses to you

[-] 0 points by Kickinthenuts (212) 2 years ago

Hugs & kisses to you

[-] 0 points by Kickinthenuts (212) 2 years ago

Hugs & kisses to you

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Hugs and kisses can only be done in person. Until you learn this you will continue to be an antisocial freak who hugs nobody.

[-] 1 points by booshington (397) 2 years ago

How the hell did this post get so big?!

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Because it is the only intelligent solution to all of your woes. Because it is the most revolutionary idea presented on this forum. Because it draws more attention and reaches more people than your totally stupid idea of occupying a street as a weak, flaccid, too little too late complaint about being successfully robbed of all your homes and money. Because it strikes at the root of your problems: not at the symptom of your problems.

[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 2 years ago

I actually love the idea. However, what the occupiers are doing, Turak, is starting the ball rolling. Apparently it's easier to work together against something than it is for something...but the "for something" is next, and your idea could be part of it. Anything can be used as a medium of exchange; but to be useful, it must represent real value, and the medium itself should never become a commodity. Too many hugs and kisses might present problems, but the people in the community can decide what the medium is. One town created its own money for trading within the town.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

What's stopping you?

I'll tell you what';s stopping you: yourself.

You're a joiner: a conformist: one of the millions of conformist imbeciles on the internet today. Your post is worthless trash. The idea that money is a 'real value' already exposes how brainwashed you are. The idea that you must replace money with something else of identical nature exposes the fact that you haven't even gotten it into your fucking think head that money has NO value in and of itself. And what is even MORE stupid is your idea of there being an excess of hugs and kisses. You are so fucking STUPID you think you can accumulate them like money. Now fuck off: your kind is in the MILLIONS on the internet and all of you are incapable of mature discussion.

[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 2 years ago

What I meant by the medium of exchange should not become a commodity presupposed that it has no instrinsic value in and of itself, but only as it represents something of value. I also was not referring to accumulating hugs and kisses, but only that some people might abuse each other in the hugging and kissing. It has been known to lead to unwanted actions occasionally. I am a bit surprised at your irate response to what I thought was an interested response to your statement. I happen to live in a perfectly good bubble of my own, but only because the system did work while I was in the workforce. I am not stupid, nor brainwashed, although I admit I didn't start questioning all of the "input" of our society and education system until about twenty years ago. If you are such a brilliant, capable thinker, I can't help but wonder why you resort to namecalling, presuppositions about people based on zero information, and useless words like "fuck", "stupid" really have no meaning within this context.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You are brainwashed. Your idea that hugs and kisses might be bad for you is so filled with shit there are no words to describe how sick your statement is because you are making things up in your head. Whenever anybody begins a statement with 'It has been known" you can rest assured that whatever comes after those words is complete and utter BULLSHIT.

Get this through your head: money does not represent value unless you value dead things more than you value living things: which is why all people who love money and hoard it are miserable scum. If you 'value' dead things more than you value Life itself then kill yourself and be done with it: then you will attain the highest 'value' which you will die by.

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[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

trolls and assholes are not tolerated here on my thread: fuck off and begone

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[-] 1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

wrong you fucking freak: self-sufficient communities are based upon EQUALITY: no leaders, no followers, and no assholes: just independent individuals voluntarily and intelligently cooperating between each other.

You see, you mental midget: you have no brain: you can't even IMAGINE anything that does not already exist: This kind of community has never been done before.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I don't imagine it's very nice, but when you run into an idiot like turdak, I it's just so fun to take a swing and then watch em froth.

[-] 2 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

On the contrary: it is you who are the idiots. I am by far more capable of logic, more intelligent, and more far-seeing than any of your bird-brained imbeciles.

[-] 0 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 2 years ago

Gee, for someone who wants hugs and kisses to be the medium of exchange, you seem to be awfully angry. Insults are a detriment to understanding. Another aspect of the world I would like to see is for everyone to be non-judgmental. It's easier to work together if we don't make judgments about each other. The only judgment I am entitled to make is whether or not I like something.

[-] 1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

WRONG: Your culture have created millions of spoiled babies like you who are non-judgmental about EVERYTHING> Because none of you ever developed your critical thinking skills: all of you are brainless idiots. It is easier to work together when you ARE judgmental to the MAX and criticize everyone including yourself. IN order to develop any critical ability you must first practice on criticizing yourself: none of you idiots have been taught to do that.

Your statement reveals that you're one of the many millions and millions of loveless babies, who have been frozen in a state of infantile imbecility, still searching for your mommy's tit and your mommy's love.

What you little worthless paranoid immature babies will never realize is that in order to create a self-sufficient community that is not based upon money... it takes a mature adult who has already HAD a full childhood and is not looking to live like a spoiled child and be coddled and protected from the harsh realities of the world around you.

[-] 0 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 2 years ago

I do not consider being critical and objective about one's own actions and those of others as making a judgment -- the only way we grow and learn is to be objective. I consider a judgment to be an opinion, which is based upon a personal perspective, and usually labels something as "good" or "bad". This is semantics, perhaps, but words do have power All of that aside, you clearly have a vision of a world that requires no medium of exchange to get shelter, food, etc. I would rather you use this space to draw that picture for the rest of us; that is what visionaries do.

[-] 1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You're an armchair imbecile: there are millions of them on the internet: exactly like you. In fact they are identical to you and you are identical to them: spewing drivel and never noticing that all of you spew the exact same bullshit.

In order to live: you need to get rid of your objectivity crap and get INVOLVED in LIFE. Yo9u have never been critical of anything in your entire fucking life and you have never judged anything in your entire fucking life. GOOD and evil are not labels: total fucking moron. They exist in the actual world. Dick Cheney is an evil human being you dumb fucking moron. People who are mass murderers and killers are evil you fucking imbecile. If you do not see this as being evil:, then you should be the first to be butchered and killed. While your guts are spilling out on the floor and you're bleeding to death then you can contemplate the error of your fucking idea that there is no evil in this world and that your being killed with a machete is just a matter of semantics..

[-] 2 points by bettersystem (170) 2 years ago

Force Change, Boycott Capitalism

We know what the problem is, let us fix it and move forward together.

When you look at a republican or democrat, congress or FDA official, Judges and Justice Department, you see criminals.

Our corruption dates back many years to when those, who in trying to preserve slavery, had to find new ways to preserve it and so created a scientific and advanced form of slavery.

Only two components were required -- the illusion of freedom & choice and the taking away of the freedom to live off the land.

This is how to get people to submit themselves to exploitation, mind numbing or degrading work, fool and oppress them into it.

Our current system is rooted in corruption and every attempt in preserving it involves manipulating human thought and turning people against one another.

In America the population has been transformed into two major voting groups but they only have one choice.

They had been distracted up until now with television and American culture which prospered through the oppression of other nations.

Americans allowed themselves to be fooled into using their military and economic dominance to seize resources of other nations and create expanding markets for American profiteers.

Now that technology, competition and conscience have evolved Americans are realizing that our current system of government is damaging and unsustainable.

Our government officials have allowed private profits and personal benefits to influence decisions that affect the health and well-being of people all over the planet, not just in America... how much longer will we allow them to rule over us??

Occupy Washington and demand that government officials resign their posts.

We will setup new online elections with a verification system that will allow us to see our votes after we cast them, put our new officials in office and work toward rebuilding our country and our world.

Pass this message along to any and everyone, we already occupy the world, unite.

Occupy Washington, Boycott Capitalism, Force Change --

http://wesower.org

[-] 1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

dream on, baby. Fighting the system is a waste of time. Self-sufficient communities that don't use money is the answer: not replacing one bunch of corrupt politicians with another bunch of corrupt professional liars

[-] 1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Your comment is stupid because you are a superficial imbecile.

[-] 1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

I do not tolerate idiots and immature children coming onto a mature serious forum with their stupid useless crap. your comment is a worthless piece of shit: now fuck off.

[-] 0 points by zandavorn (18) 2 years ago

So, you mean you aren't tolerated on your thread? Wow, that's gotta be embarrassing.

[-] 1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

No: I mean this is my thread and I don't tolerate immature asshole like you on it. Can you read? Or are you still in grammar school?

[-] 0 points by zandavorn (18) 2 years ago

Funny you should mention grammar school, because when stating you "don't tolerate immature asshole like you" it should be "assholes" for your sentence to be correct.

Also, I can obviously read, otherwise I wouldn't be able to continually respond intelligently to your statements, and your questions that have obvious answers.

[-] 1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You haven't said anything intelligent yet: You're the 2nd asshole reduced to grammar police. That is the lowest level of internet bullshit on the internet. Welcome to the bottom of the barrel moron.

[-] 1 points by zandavorn (18) 2 years ago

You're the one who brought up grammar, not me. So, please don't be stupid and say that it was me who started that.

[-] 0 points by RichardGates (1529) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

stop letting trolls pis you off. thats the only position they have, to piss you off.

[-] 1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Correct.... BUT: if you don't kick the ass of every troll who comes onto this thread it will be drowned by countless posts that destroy the integrity of the issue I raised. I kick the ass of every troll who comes here and all of them have been kicked OFF of this thread because of it.

UNDERSTAND THIS: If you don't have the guts to stand up to trolls and all the naysayers and assholes that are on the internet in the millions: they will win every time. The majority of morons who believe that their fucking numbers make them right is being proven WRONG on this thread by ME. I take on every motherfucker who wants to troll on this thread and I kick their sorry miserable asses until they LEAVE. and don't come back, understand?

One person who stands up for what is right can beat 1,000 assholes EASILY.

[-] 0 points by zandavorn (18) 2 years ago

Yes, because you have destroyed me SOOOOOOO bad on every comment. Dude, pull your head out. It's embarrassing to the human race.

[-] 1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Yes I have: because you have nothing to say in your defense.

Except your fucking bloated ego.

[-] 0 points by zandavorn (18) 2 years ago

Can't reply to your last post, so I'm replying with this. These are some of the things I tried to discuss.

Wow. Socialism. Except you forget one thing. Human greed. There will always be a free rider that breaks the system.

Actually, I believe in proposing real policy change. Like ending foreign aid. Ending farm subsidies that offset each other. Reducing the number of military bases around the world. Reducing nuclear weapon stockpiles. REAL POLICY. What you are arguing is socialism. Please read, "The Communist Manifesto" by Karl Marx. Greed is about power; not money. Money is one way to gain power. Get rid of money. Okay. We go back to the bartering system. You say everyone lives in a world where everyone helps everyone. Okay. What happens when one person refuses to help others, but asks others to help them? It's called the free-rider problem in political science. Look it up.

So, whatever dude. I've tried to be pretty civil, but as per the usual keyboard warriors, you have been incapable of doing anything other than attempting to incite anger and embellish your intelligence.

Also, did you actually read my post. There are actually several sentences, after the uhm, so I did actually write more, but whatever.

[-] 1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You are very badly misinformed: like all Americans, you've been sucking on free propaganda. what you fail to understand is that the voting public has zero power period. Not now: not ever. PERIOD None of you have any power or control over any policy decision on of your govt PERIOD. And you will never get any control over your govt because your corrupt politician and your govt runs on trillions of dollars. And the banks and the people who own them have nearly all the money and they are creating more and more money by the corrupt system of fractional banking every day.

The answer to all your problems is to DE-CENTRALIZE ALL POWER... and get rid of money. In these two steps: you cure and fix every single problem you have now. How to de-centralize all that federal and state and county and city govt power? How to get rid of the huge centralized monopolies of the oil industry, the agri-business industry, the pharmaceutical industry, etc? Stop buying from them. You the people are the engine which they feed off and profit from. If you become a small self-sufficient community of EQUALS that does not use money: then NOBODY can control or manipulate you. Remember this: NO LEADERS!~ NO POLITICIANS, NO BOSSES. Do you have the guts to stand up and be an independent individual? Or are you a fucking sheep who needs a herd of millions of other sheep to hide in? If you are intelligent you will create your own small community: if you're a herd animal like all the other brainless jackasses you will continue to be a sucker.

[-] 0 points by zandavorn (18) 2 years ago

Uhmmmmm. I tried to have a conversation and your response was to insult my intelligence. If you would like, I can point out some other comments on this thread, that you have made in response to mine. In fact I think I can post the entirety of the conversations we've had. You'll find that you are the one that refuses to carry on a real discussion. Now, I just find it entertaining to make you look stupid, although you don't need my help, because everything you post ends up showing your incompetence.

[-] 1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Haven't you left yet? You still haven't said anything: get lost. The only time you can be insulted is when the insult is TRUE. Or do you want to stick around and open your mouth and remove all doubt?

I mean: the intelligence of posting "Uhmmmmm" on this thread and then saying nothing after that... and you STILL don't realize how fucking big of a moron you are? JESUS CHRIST... The stupidity of the human species continues to amaze me.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

Thanks, it's a good reminder.

[-] -1 points by getajoblosers (65) 2 years ago

Turak is awesome! haha Please insult me too!

[-] 0 points by RichardGates (1529) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

stop trolling

[-] 0 points by zandavorn (18) 2 years ago

You read this, and think I'm the troll? Really?

[-] 0 points by RichardGates (1529) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

debating how one argues rather than taking on their point, yeah.

[-] 0 points by zandavorn (18) 2 years ago

Actually, I tried this at one point. He insulted me and ignored everything I said. So, I choose to do this. His topic is fairly trollish though.

[-] 1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

It is not an idea: It is a practical solution. It will be done successfully. It can be done easily. It will spread like wildfire throughout the entire world a million times more effectively than you envy of the rich who robbed you.

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[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

once the population is fed

there are still excess resources to be used for ambitions projects

but those excess resources are finite

[-] 1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Wrong. The population does not need to be fed food. People need to be educated and de-programmed of their greed, selfishness, laziness, passivity and misperceptions of the actual Universe they exist in.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

first the hungry must eat

[-] 2 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Wrong: first the hungry must be given what they truly crave: which is equality, sharing and fun and play and happiness and beauty. Not ugliness, slavery, drudgery and degradation and money.

[-] 0 points by zandavorn (18) 2 years ago

Yeah, I choose equality over continuing to live. Truly genius. Maybe you should look up Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

[-] 1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Maslow is a fucking bullshitting IMBECILE, and so are you for taking his word for something you have never tried, never tested and cannot say from experience whether he is right or wrong. I HAVE tested my ideas and they WORK.

[-] 0 points by zandavorn (18) 2 years ago

So you've tried equality, but not food? How are you still alive?

[-] 1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

I know what I'm talking about and you don't. One thing is certain: I wiil not tell you anything. Go eat your meat and cheese and shit and die.

[-] 0 points by zandavorn (18) 2 years ago

You realize insults don't help your case, right?

[-] 1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

it took you one week to come up with THAT? get this trhough your FUCKING hit filled brain:

I am NOT selling you anything. In fact it is freaks like you I want to get RID of on this forum. It is your kind of filth that buys lies and bullshit and refuses to search for the TRUTH. Do you understand? get LOST. You already ARE lost, now go fucking wander around your meaningless aimless life somwhere else.

[-] 0 points by zandavorn (18) 2 years ago

Sorry, that I have a life, and choose not to check this forum everyday. Duh, you're not selling anything, but you are trying to convince everyone to get rid of money and live in self-sustaining communities. Not that I'm necessarily opposed to the idea, I would just like to hear your theory on how you get this idea adopted on mass scale. So far, I have heard absolutely nothing that would be able to explain. Of course we can each individually choose to grow our own food, quit paying taxes, be nomads, hunt, fish, but humans don't accept change well. You can say "live in a self-sufficient community," but because the state is considered the unitary actor on the international level, they have the right to collect taxes and buy/sell land as commodities. Therefore, we pay property taxes. To live in self-sustaining communities you would have to become a nomad, which is unfortunate, but as long as there is government that has power given to them by the people, this is the way of things.

[-] 1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

I am not trying to convince anyone: I'm TELLING you how you can solve your problems. This comes from me having a brain that works and you having no brains at all. You ASK for people to GIVE you the ANSWERS to YOUR problems. I don't ask anyone to solve my problems for me. Guess what:.. I don't know what your problems are and I don't care. I am in the process of creating a self-sufficient community for MYSELF: not for the masses of sheep. I am NOT trying to get self-sufficient communities adopted on a mass scale: got that? It would be nice but I'm practical. I prefer working to just create one community and live in it: a very achievable goal.

YOU are not a prospective member of any self-sufficient community so you can go fuck yourself. Your inventing imaginary excuses and envisaging failure already exposes that you are a negative program. Do you know what a negative program is? It's a program that whatever you put into it, it spits out: negative-negative-negative. You're not a human being. You're a machine: now fuck off and don't come back.

[-] 0 points by zandavorn (18) 2 years ago

Wow, genius reply. You get way too offended by things that are completely inoffensive and then seem to believe that you should try to make everyone feel stupid (although you fail at it). Great. Make yourself a self-sufficient community. You just explained that the entire post you have made serves no purpose, because you don't care if other people adopt your idiotic idea.

Before I go, just one question, in what area of the world do you live? Is it actually Canada? Good luck being a nomad without money, growing your own food in a country that has soil that is mostly incapable of growing a variety of crops. I hope you have a good gun to kill all the animals you're going to eat. You better bring a knife to skin the little guys (big guys if you're actually able to kill bears, moose, or elk).

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

The more you come back: the more you expose yourself: Little children should NOT falsify their identity: pretending to be an adult is a crime for young children. You are a little criminal. The point is you have no reason for being here except your usual practice of being an asshole trolling the internet and spewing your filth everywhere you can. If you think the idea is idiotic then why are you asking questions about it? You contradict yourself at every juncture and every response you INVENT contradicts another response you INVENT because you are a congenital LIAR. You are an offensive little jerk who does not know how to be an adult. First you say that you're not opposed to the idea then you say the idea is idiotic. You are such a congenital filthy liar you don't believe anything anyone tells you. You think I'm lying when I tell you I live in Canada. If I told you that the sky is blue, you would also believe I was lying, and if someone forced you to go outside and look at the sky and prove to you that the sky is blue you would STILL be convinced that the sky is not blue. That is how sick and diseased you are.

Second: where did you get the insane assumption that a self-sufficient community is nomadic? I'll tell you where: from falsifying your identity 20 times in numerous post hiding your stinking lying persona behind multiple handles and failing reading comprehension..

Little children who ask question of adults should not be on this forum unless they confess the truth: how old ARE you... 6? 8? Your posts do not make any sense to adults. You keep on screaming for answers to be given o you. I am telling you that you need to find your own answers. Little babies need to grow up before they come onto adult forums. Now fuck off and get lost.

[-] 0 points by 666isMONEY (348) 2 years ago

Abolishing money is The Way to go. Half the ppl in U$A work at unnecessary jobs: cashier, insurance, real estate, sales, advertising, bank, stock exchange. Interest (30-year mortgages) is slavery. Here's a bunch of quotes by famous ppl who believed in eliminating money:

http://666ismoney.com/MoneyQuotes.html

[-] 2 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

One person out of 500 agrees with me... Good to know.

[-] 1 points by 666isMONEY (348) 2 years ago

I feel the same way turak, very sad. It's like what kind of revolution is this?! Their demands are soooo wimpy and ineffective: Babylon's falling and they're putting fingers in the dike.

(Peak oil, 7-billion ppl on earth, funny money wall street games, global warming . . . hello, anybody there?)

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

2 people out of 1,000 agree with me: the average rate of theintelligent individualist against the mindless herd.

BUT.... you are not intelligent enough because if you were, you would seek out people like me and we could begin a self-sufficient community and not be forced to live any longer inside a system we both despise and hate.

[-] 1 points by 666isMONEY (348) 2 years ago

Time to fight or flee? Either way: be prepared! My goal is to get outta Babylon and move to a sustainable situation (probably Oregon or Northern California near Chico), grow a garden, raise chickens & goats. Mid-west would be best but I like mountains. Australia, New Zealand and a few South American nations would be better than U$A but I can't afford the former and wouldn't feel assimilated in S. America. There are quite a few who see the signs of the times (especially peak oil) and are planning sustainability. Check out this website: http://www.theoildrum.com/

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Wrong: you're repeating the stupidest stone age system of ecological destruction on earth. You're regressing to the stupidest form of civilized existence there is. Before you create a better way of life you need to work on YOURSELF first. You need to create a better YOU before you can create a better environment for yourself.

[-] 1 points by 666isMONEY (348) 2 years ago

How do U know I'm not perfect?, lol. I met someone at the Burning Man festival a coupla years ago that told me she was on a City Committee for sustainability in Salem, OR. Seems that ppl in Oregon see the severity of the situation the world is in.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You're sick. Until you understand that the culture of self-immolation is insane you will continue to be a freaked out ape: recreating the burning apes of Africa who were burned by volcanic explosions hitting them in the face for 25 million years.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

I'm not sure if that would work in a nation of 300million people. I think you need some kind of formal middle man process.

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[-] 1 points by thegatekeeperbeta (25) from New York, NY 2 years ago

In all honesty, how can one function without an economy system? I'm not in favor of greed or hogging money, or making money from the downfall of others, but I believe you need some sort of currency to function.

http://www.easymuaythai.com/

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Sigh: of course you can't see anything but what is in front of your eyes. You're not creative. You have no imagination. You can't visualize anything which does not already exist. Civilization needs to be dissolved. Taken apart. Not piled up.

What is the earliest memory you have? You don't remember your own past. You don't remember what you once were before you were programmed and brainwashed to act-think-behave and peak and write like everybody else.

Stop thinking of humanity as some imaginary mass. Deal with your own life where you live and stop worrying about what everybody else is doing. Once you don't give a fuck what anyone else does or thinks: you will be on your way to developing yourself as an individual with an individual personality and and individual set of goals. The more self-sufficient you become the less you need to worry about other people.

Humans have only one natural state. living in the midst of living creatures, plants, trees and organisms: not living inside concrete bunkers in death-zones where is no Nature. The computer is the most anti-social device ever invented. It wastes more time than any device ever invented.

IN order to deprogram yourself of the brainwashing you have been implanted with: you need to get OUT OF civilization and look at it from the OUTSIDE looking IN.

Founding your own self-sufficient society and community means you MUST! create everything you want BY YOURSELF: without any help from the outside. This means that you MUST become CREATIVE. You MUST become able to CREATE.

All of you sad sorry drones have never CREATED anything. The human animal has an INTRINSIC ability to be infinitely creative. You were BORN with this ability. YOU NEVER USED IT: because you were set in front of a 2-dimensional screen that made your mind go BLANK from the first day your mommy didn't want to bother with raising you.

Oops. You have to learn how to be creative. OOOPS. Consumers like you do not create anything. OOOPS. You don't want to look at this fact. OOOPS. You want to bring up a million red herrings to avoid the fat that you are not using your human potential to be creative. OOOPS.

Well that's not my fucking problem.

I am creative and I can create what I WANT to create because I can VISUALIZE it, and also I have LIVED that visualization and I KNOW I CAN DO IT before I even begin to do it.

You don't know if you can do ANYTHING. You have no confidence in your own ability to be creative and in yourself as a creative human being who is not supposed to live inside an artificial womb cut off from NATURE.

I KNOW this is a fact. You don't.

I can't help or teach or enlighten anyone over an internet form> All the words I post comes back: 'does not compute' 'i don't unnerstand 'I disagree'

Well: all of you who disagree and can't see and don't unnerstan can go fuck yourselves for all I care because I don't give a shit about what other people think or do: I care about what I can do and what I WILL do and what I AM doing.

Creating my own self-sufficient community is easy: All I need is to find people who like to have fun. I will NEVER find anyone over this internet shit crock of a propaganda machine who likes to have fun. YOU don't like to have fun. You're fucking BORING TO TALK TO; never mind know personally.

Until you realize that I know WAY more about life than you do: until you realize that what I say is logical: until you realize that what you say is ILLOGICAL: until you realize that anything that is illogical is NOT TRUE and everything that is logical is TRUE: you will never become able to develop your intrinsic creative abilities and become an independent self-sufficient human being.

You don't NEED 9/10ths of the food you eat to live. You EAT TO FUCKING MUCH FOOD. You're a brainwashed CONSUMER who EATS TOO MUCH SHIT. You have no SELF-DISCIPLINE. You can't even get rid of the bad habits and addictions you KNOW are bad. You don't even want to look at your own life and your own self. If you did: you wouldn't be here on this forum.

[-] 1 points by flanga (26) 1 year ago

A well thought out post. Most people are so brainwashed by what they have been lead to believe is "normal" that anything else seems weird and imaginative.

Thanks from Clive @ http://easydiablo3.com/.

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[-] 1 points by radarluv (1) 2 years ago

You all look like retards

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You can see me? What are you: a retard?

[-] 1 points by simplehuman (10) 2 years ago

Here is a link to an interview relating to currency that may be of interest to some of you.

http://worldwidetippingpoint.com/2011/11/a-tipping-point-in-the-world-of-finance-david-martin/

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Not really. Getting rid of using money is simpler, more practical and better.

[-] 1 points by deGrene (199) 2 years ago

Timothy Leary invited people to “Tune in, turn on and drop out.” His idea was that, even though we lived in the American society of the 1960s, we didn't have to be an active part in it.

The fact is that the only way we'll be able to cure the unbalance of society will be to throw off the very ideas that made the society what it is today. We have to restructure our thinking and see value in other things. And that will be very difficult for a lot of people. I have a friend who, no matter how I tried to explain it to her, she could not wrap her head around the idea of life without money and possessions.

Realistically, you're not going to get a lot of people to do that, but I will point out that, at least for many years, the Anabaptist sects here in the US and other countries did a pretty good job of ignoring the "temptations" of Western Culture.

Admittedly, my concept is extreme and I understand how a lot of people would be uncomfortable with it, but most of the population of the world lived quite well without consumerism, capitalism and materialism for much longer than we have lived with it, so it can, indeed, work.

I think that, if we can't persuade the nation to do it, we need to simply do it ourselves -- become self-sufficient, gather together with those who think alike, and set up our own subculture within the other. The Anabaptists aren't the only ones to do this, you know. There are several subgroups who have done so. There are quite a few self-sufficient homesteaders and other groups who have set up their own standards and live by their own rules, at least as far as their economy goes. Think about the community dollars movement as a beginning structure and build it from there. In fact, as I have stated in another tread here, such a concept works best in a small community. One of the problems I see is that government simply cannot work on the level that we have been trying to make it work all these years. No government can be responsible toward or responsive to the people unless they who govern can be in direct contact with the people they govern. When was the last time you were able to call up your representative – even on the state level – and have a conversation with her or him?

So, while I hope we actually do affect change in the society, I don't believe it will be a huge one. If we truly want to have an entirely different way of life, we can – we just have to discard that which we have been living and be willing to make the sacrifices necessary to create a new one.

Will there be interaction with the old one? Of course! Unless someone finds an island somewhere outside of national waters. But just because you go to a football stadium, it doesn't mean you have to play the game.

[-] 1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Now THERE is mature comment!@ It warms my heart to read your sensible post. You probably already know about the Ithaca Dollar in upper New York and how successful it's been for years now.

The basic logic of small self-sufficient communities is economically sound because they work by the 'oasis' principle of funneling all the resources and labor and wealth back into the community... as opposed to all the money and wealth and labor being sucked OUT of the community and ultimately ending up in the off-shore secret bank accounts of corporate robber barons and international corporations.

The REAL issue is only very few people in America are enlightened enough and educated enough and progressive enough to actually do it.... The OW movement is a new phenomenon, and I'm trying to direct all their cooperative energy into building for the future: not setting up tents in Liberty square. Setting up permanent self-sufficient communities that work and flourish is a much more intelligent use of all this energy that is now being revealed.

[-] 1 points by deGrene (199) 2 years ago

And I thik that is exactly where we need to go -- I applaud your efforts and I'm trying to do the same thing here where I live.

Thanks for the compliment -- you're very kind.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Where do you live?...let me guess, California?

[-] 1 points by deGrene (199) 2 years ago

Where I live, like the rest of my personal life, is none of your business, but just so you know, I do not live in california, never have, and ahve been there only once, in 1975, when I touched over the border into Needles, just to say I'd been in the hottest place in America.

You assume you know everything -- not only about issues and ideas, but about people. I submit that you are not omniscient, nor are you omnipotent.

Your failure to understand that is the reason you neither grow nor learn, but merely stagnate in your own disgust for all things contrary to your way of thinking.

[-] 1 points by Uneeck42 (7) 2 years ago

Craigslist has a barter system, perhaps we could use this system in other places.

[-] 1 points by deGrene (199) 2 years ago

Try Freecycle.org -- it's a barter site. Actually there are quite a few of them on the internet. Just do a search for them.

As far as doing it within a community -- it's really a very easy economy to set up if you think about it.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You're thinking like a mass animal you expect to live in a mass of anonymous millions you have never lived in a small self-sufficient community, so you can't even imagine what that entails. By changing your life into living as a self-sufficient individual in a small community of equals who are also self-sufficient: your entire life changes. Before you can even imagine what it means to be self-sufficient, you must first cleanse yourself of all the dependencies and addictions to your mass culture of consumerism. Only when you stop buying and selling can you ever become self-sufficient, and you're not prepared to do this. That is why your comment is totally out of context.

[-] 1 points by deGrene (199) 2 years ago

That's funny -- I don't ever remember meeting you, let alone getting to know you well enough that you would know these things about me.

Therefore, I have to deduce that you're simply imposing your own failings onto me in an effort to validate them in yourself.

In the future, I would ask that you do not, in any way, imagine that you know me well enough to tell me what I am able or unable to do, and certainly, do not try to tell me what I have done or not done in my lifetime.

it shows nothing more than your ignorance and your bigotry.

Thanks for the comment though.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

I notice that you have not denied a single thing I said of you, so I will assume that I am right and I hit the nail right on the head...

Obviously if anything I had said was incorrect you would have corrected me and told me I am wrong... But you didn't do that.

[-] 1 points by deGrene (199) 2 years ago

Or possibly I simply didn't think it was either worth replying to or none of your business. For your information, not only I ahve I lived cmpletely self-sufficently, I was fully traing in jungle survival techniques, and lived that way for much of three years while in the military. More recently, I have lived self-sufficiently on a small farm in Ohio where I grew my own food, pumped my own water, cut my own firewood, and even made my own clothing. As far as "cleansing myself" of my tendencies for buying things, eactly how do you know I ahve these tendencies? From where do you get your information? In fact, I long ago "cleansed" myself of being a consumer ofr consumption's sake and buy now only those items I need for my life such as food, clothing, bsic transportation (for when I cannot walk or ride my bicycle) and paying for the unavoidable necessities of life. You will doubtless point out that I ahve a coputer and I shall,m in turn, point out that I do research and am a writer -- yes professional and, yes, regularly published -- and this is a tool of my work, not a toy and certainly not a luxury.

Of course, because it doesn't suit your purposes, you'll deny that I did any of this even though you have never met me and know nothing at all about me.

Now, a bit of observational supposition on my part, since you ahve opened the door:

With the vehemence and anger of your replies and your readiness to turn on even though who support some of your points, plus the fact that you seem to need to insult those who disagree with you, I would feel rather safe in saying that you are an angry white man who feels disenfranchised, ignored and more-or-less sidelined in the greater scheme of thigns. I would further surmise that you are not particulary able to discuss an issue without resorting to personal insults and epithets when soemone brings up a point for which you have no reply.

As far as waking people up, you fail. In hurling curses, insults and other offensive language at them, all you do is drive them away from you and your ideas. You ahve some good thoughts, but your inability to discuss anything that runs counter to the way you think shows that you simply do not ahve the braodness of mind, nor the flexibility of will to listen to the good ideas of others, evaluated them, and, when applicable, incorporate them into your own philosophy.

That disappoints me.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

I apologize. Accidentally I posted a response to you that was meant for someone else. I'm sorry... how I made such a mistake I don't know. I made a real blunder. My response to your post had nothing to do with what you wrote at all. In fact you're the only person on this forum who I've corresponded with on this forum who, as I now found out, has practical experience about self-sufficiency. When I found out my mistake by going back to see what I was responding to and found your entirely reasonable intelligent post, I felt awful. Boy, did I mess up. From what you wrote it sounds like you're someone I'd really like to get to know.

I'm a writer also among other things, but not for profit. I'm self-employed like you and I use my truck as little as possible and use my bicycle for doing chores and estimates. Can you forgive me my mistake?

[-] 1 points by deGrene (199) 2 years ago

No problem. I appreciate your honesty and your apology. I, in turn, apologize for some of the things I said.

Thanks for your thoughts. They do make a lot of sense.

Take care.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Don't go yet. We have many things in common and there's so much I want to ask you . Hello.. are you still here?

[-] 1 points by deGrene (199) 2 years ago

I'm still here, turak.Just didn't get a chance to get on today. I'm glad to talk with you anytime.

[-] 1 points by Peretyatkov (241) from город Пенза, Пензенская область 2 years ago

I've been thinking about what governs me. The thirst for money? No. Love for the People? And not it's. The desire for power? It's do not need me at all! What need me? Truth and Fairness.

[-] 1 points by deGrene (199) 2 years ago

Long ago, Peretyatkov, I learned that nearly every answer I needed (as pertaining to myself, who I am, what I wanted, etc) was already inside me. All I had to do was to release myself from the bonds of the expectations of others and allow those answers to come through.

Yes, that sounds really metaphyisical, but at least for me, it was true.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

That is the question which you must ANSWER YOURSELF

This is what you stupid spoiled babies need to understand. Expecting other people to answer questions FOR you, reveals the fact that you can't answer your own self-doubting questions about your own values.

I have news for you> Nobody can answer your questions for you.

Your stupid habit of asking other people what you should be asking of yourself is already a BAD STUPID HABIT.

Your stupid habit of expecting!!! Total strangers who do not know you,,, to answer your own personal question about what governs your own personal actions... is sooo fucking idiotic.... so fucking infantile, sooo fucking pointless, sooo asking, begging for total stranger to lie to you that it's disgusting.

When you answer your own question... IF YOU EVER FIND OUT what the answer is... then come back to this forum and tell us what you have discovered about yourself... Until then, get off this forum and shut your silly baby mouth.

[-] 1 points by Peretyatkov (241) from город Пенза, Пензенская область 2 years ago

You never ask yourself questions? In vain! Without asking, yourself - do not find answers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4RCGYGFfGA

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You have more than one screw loose; freak.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

I'm puzzled as to why this rather "cute" thought got almost 1,500 responses, even thought I'm responding now, to point that out. Next somebody will say we should re-invent the wheel. 7,000,000,000 people cannot survive without the exchange of money. It is a regretable fact perhaps, but it is an indisputable fact nevertherless.

[-] 1 points by deGrene (199) 2 years ago

The only reason 7,000,000,000 people annot survive without money is because they accept the idea that they cannot survive without money.

And the real issue isn't whether 7,000,000,000 can survive without money -- the issue is whether a certain portion within that number can do so -- and that has been proven many times over that they can.

Study some sociological history and find out for yourself. Read up on Utopian Communities and other similar searches.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You're a fucking idiot. The reason there are more than a thousand responses to this idea is because all of you NEGATIVE assholes are threatened by a POSITIVE idea. All of you idiots need to be gone from this forum and remain puzzled for the rest of your brainless life.

[-] 1 points by barb (835) 2 years ago

This ideology has a basis of truth to it. Face it, the dollar is losing value rapidly and it will end up being a worthless piece of paper. People need to prepare for this and begin to bring food crops back to their State so we can feed ourselves when the S*** hits the fan.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

My proposal is not an ideology: you brainwashed idiot.

When a small number of people like 12 or 24 or 36 decide to create their own self-sufficient community: they will also create their own CULTURE, their own way of living, their own way of bre4eathing, their own customs, their own traditions, their own set of values, their own morals, their own ethics, and if they wish: a fucking 'ideology' But they won't create an 'ideology' because ideologies are only brainwashing tools used to brainwash millions of fucking imbeciles like you... until you fucking idiots become so used to being brainwashed that you thinks it's NORMAL to have a fucking 'ideology', and that if you don't have a fucking 'ideology' then you can't live because NOBODY IS TELLING YOU HOW TO THINK AND WHAT TO DO.

Brainwashed fucking imbeciles like you will NEVER create their own self-sufficient communities and will NEVER be asked to join one because in order to create one or join one... you have to ne SELF-SUFFICIENT as an INDIVIDUAL... that means you have to be able to think for yourself WITHOUT HAVING A FUCKING IDEOLOGY: that somebody else made up. Do you understand? You fucking brainless baboon.

[-] 1 points by deGrene (199) 2 years ago

turak, I mut point out that the entire objective to brainwahsing is exactly to make the abnormal appear normal and to make unorthodoxy into orthodoxy.

We cannot blame those who are brainwashed -- they're the one who were tampered with. We can only blame them if they realize they ahve been brainwashed and do nothing about it.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You can't blame brainwashed people, but I can wake them up by telling them they are brainwashed, which I do, at every opportunity.

[-] 1 points by Calypsophia (74) 2 years ago

I have to agree with you. Everyone thinks they are arguing over the problems, but what they are really arguing over is how to deal with the side effects (greed, poverty, want, hunger) and completely ignoring the problem (or disease) which is money itself.

But I've heard of a better way than a system based on hugs and kisses. A resource-based economy.. not one based on currency or the value system we have in place today. There are many websites and groups that support this radical and much needed change... but here's 1 page for you to check out, at least : http://www.unitinghumans.com/

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

WRONG . That web site is totally WRONG for many reasons, there are so many things wrong with this idea I don't know where to start. FIRST: the premise these idiots want to use as a reason to stop using money and stop the industrialized wage slavery of global capitalism and consumerism is to use machines as SLAVES to serve humans... First: what none of you have realized is that the human species has become enslaved by machines: not the other way around. Humans are used to create, build, maintain, feed, and 'use' more and more machines until now humans are spending most of their lives and energy maintaining, building, feeding and mass-manufacturing more and more and more machines, until humans have become more and more mechanical, until human have BECOME MACHINES. You're a fucking humanoid android MACHINE: not a human being. The enslavement of humans being forced into slave camps, into becoming the slaves of machines, slaving away in factories building MORE machines is what the industrial revolution was all about and that is why WW1 and WW2 happened and that is what is continuing to happen. The more you use machines: the more you become a machine.

Creating a human society where machines do all the fucking work is STILL BASED UPON SLAVERY!! IDIOT! If you want to free yourself from slavery: you must also free yourself of PRACTICING SLAVERY, and you must also stop using ANYTHING as a slave: whether it is a living human or a machine>>> do you understand this? If you don't there is no point is speaking to you at all.

SECOND: the arrogance! the total arrogance! OD assuming that all of the world is only there for one species!! That one species has the right? To USE everything in the world for their own selfish gratification, so that all the mountains and valleys and clouds and sky and oceans are merely 'resources'!! So sall the living creatures of the earth, all the forms of life are merely 'resources'... to be USED by one species for their selfish stupid pastimes? That is called EXPLOITATION. That is called SLAVERY. That is so fucking arrogant and stupid; words cannot describe how stupid that assumption is.

The human species has NO FUCKING RIGHT TO EXPLOIT ANYTHING>> got that? By turning human society into a 100% mechanized system of mechanical enslavement and exploitation of 'resources', you think that any better than capitalism? You think that's any different from what humans are doing NOW!? That's EXACTLY THE SAME FUCKING THING global capitalism is doing NOW!!

THIRD: these fucking imbeciles are THINKING in TERMS of mass-manufactured robots. They identify human beings as a global mass-entity. A GLOBALIZED world economy that doesn't use money is exactly what they're planning now: by simply replacing money with a personalized computer chick STUCK INTO YOUR BODY: turning you into a better MACHINE.

Creating a small self-sufficient community of 12 people is the complete opposite of what these ivory-towers numskulls are speaking of. When you create your own self-sufficient community: you stop being a mass-lemming! You STOP being a herd animal! You STOP thinking like a fucking robot and you STOP identifying yourself with billions of fucking roboticized insane imbeciles who have been so dehumanized and turned into mechanical freaks, that they have no humanity left, and they all think alike and act alike as IDENTICALLY AS POSSIBLE.

These fucking idiots think that by simply stopping the use of money: everything will change? While they do not stop ANYTHING ELSE?. While 6.8 billion insane freaks continue to rape the entire earth of all its resources and continue the exploitation and mass murder and mass extinction and mass destruction of all life on earth!???

They are fucking insane, so fucking out of their fucking minds: they are so fucking detached from all reality: I can't even begin to describe how sick these dead souls are.

Exchanging ANYTHING without money is still a dehumanized exchange without any human love, without any human trust, without any human intelligence, without any humanity. You aren't even able to IMAGINE sharing anything with other people except as an unfeeling MACHINE. You sick freaks are beyond salvaging.

[-] 1 points by Calypsophia (74) 2 years ago

Well you know, I wasnt going to respond to your post turak, but I came back to give you a bit of friendly advice. The next time you seek to get your points across to someone, and voice your opinion to them, dont use caps and call people names. You verbally attack people and it just makes you sound like an asshole and guess what.. PEOPLE WONT READ YOUR SHIT ('cause that's exactly what it is). I know I didnt. All the agressive language just popped out and I just couldnt care less about whatever it was you were saying. I wouldnt subject myself to such abuse in person (without eventually hitting you) so I SURE AS HELL am not going to subject myself to it online.

And people, dont listen to anyone that tries to tell you how to think, how you should feel, what you should be doing. You all can figure those things out for yourselves. Peace out.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You're a coward: meet me in person and I'll tell you the exact same thing I told you on this internet. Your EXCUSE to avoid reading and admitting the truths I tell you is inexcusable. Your EXCUSE that you are 'insulted' or don't like how I worded the truth is total BULLSHIT.

The fact is you won't subject yourself to the TRUTH. That is why I despise you and everyone who refuses to face the truth.

NOBODY HAS A MONOPOLY ON THE TRUTH: you fucking idiot. When somebody tells you the facts: you SHUT UP and LISTEN to him, and you do not use excuses to avoid facing the facts.

[-] 1 points by Calypsophia (74) 2 years ago

hahahaha LOL ROFL! ROFLMAO! you're a funny angry person :D

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You're a boring liar and a boring bullshitter and a troll.

Your attempt to make fun of human emotion has one major fallacy You don't have any human emotion, and you've never felt any human emotions. You can't make fun of something you don't understand. Which is why you misperceive and misinterpret what other people who DO have human emotions feel.

Your defense against logic,sanity, and reason is to 'laugh' at it. That's called denial. The fact is you don't laugh. You aren't laughing. You don't know how to laugh. All you can do is FAKE it, on a computer screen. All you can do is type lies and letters on an abstract screen. The only place you can do that is over the internet. In real life, reality cannot be ignored or denied. If you say "LOL ROFL! ROFLMAO" to anyone who is sane and not a computer freak who is insane: they will avoid you because they have correctly recognized that you are a nut case living inside your own bubble of mental insanity.

[-] 1 points by opensociety4us (914) from Norwalk, CT 2 years ago

I'm not convinced you can't do both.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Both what? Be speciific.

[-] 1 points by opensociety4us (914) from Norwalk, CT 2 years ago

look at the last line of your post

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

WHICH post? I asked you to be specific, not vague: can you even comprehend English words? I am not going to look at any post jackass. Either you tell me what you mean or fuck off and stop clogging up the internet your your fucking shit.

[-] 1 points by ropeknot (359) 2 years ago

Do you have a loaf of bread you can spare ? Sincerely yours; Your humble starving employee !

I couldn't live on love alone; Sorry !

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Let me explain something to you. You are deprived of love because you live in a loveless society. You have never experienced love in your entire life. Because you have never seen and never experienced love: you have no conception of what love is or how it works.

The only reason your have the mindless urge to fill your belly with rotting dead crap is because you heart is empty of all LIFE-energy and all love. Your entire soul and body is empty of all positive energy and human understanding. There are people in India who live on breathing air, and have done so for centuries: they are called Yogi's and they have trained their bodies to do without food. But they are completely corrupt in how they do this.

If you are willing to learn: I can teach you to reduce your food intake to such a high levle of energy efficiency that you will need almost no food at all, and have all the nergy you need to run and play and have fun and live in a community which is not based upon over-stuffing your belly 3 times a day.

One of the worst things you can eat is bread. All carbohydrates are addictive because they are basically sugar. If you become educated about nutrition: you will realize that everything you are eating now is unhealthy and it will lead to many kinds of diseases and your dying early.

Also: one of the healthiest things you can do is go on a fast. The longer you do not eat food, the cleaner your body becomes because then it has time to cleanse itself of all the toxic drugs and elements which you continually poison yourself with every day.

My advice to you is to starve yourself. It's the best thing that could ever happen to you. People who have never gone without food in their entire lives are smug arrogant asses who have no understanding of what it means to be human.

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

!!....that's what you're doing right now: and what does it get you? ISOLATION NO FUN ALONE

[-] 1 points by rockyracoon2 (276) 2 years ago

amen

[-] 1 points by selasin (10) 2 years ago

I would like to live in a society that is not dominated by monetary gain for more than just personal reasons, like a lot of other people have said technological advancements are making it harder and harder to make money for everyone which just means that it is becoming obsolete anyway, we should just make that next plunge and develop a new way of doing business that matches our level of technology.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

you are not visualizing what I am planning and what the ethic of self-sufficiency is. Self-sufficiency means there is NO buying OR selling of any kind and no trading or barter of any kind. No use of money as an exchange of any kind. Voluntary cooperation only is allowed. No involuntary enforced cooperation: which is why all of you are SLAVES in this system. No more doing business. No more business PERIOD. Just enjoy LIFE and live without using money. I can TEACH you how to do this. But you will have to cleanse yourself of all the addictions you now suffer from. You first need to be educated and trained. This community will be the most elite community on EARTH. It requires discipline, training, commitment, and a willingness to learn and be taught intelligently. This means that you NEVER look up to anyone who teaches you and you only take what is taught you as true after you have TESTED and proven to yourself that what is taught you is actually true and not a cunning swindle.

[-] 1 points by selasin (10) 2 years ago

I think that I am starting to see what you are meaning, taking an example from someone else, a farmer grows corn for the community because it is a need of the community, they wouldn't receive payment because it is unnecessary, they are just happy to provide. Still, I would be happy to learn what you have to teach if you are willing to teach me.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

No. I am afraid you are dyslexic. Do you know what self-sufficiency is>?

[-] 1 points by selasin (10) 2 years ago

Self sufficiency is when an individual or group is capable of taking care of them self without outside interference, in order for the individual to become the group or this self sufficient community that you speak of you would then need to share your ideas, otherwise it's a group running in circles debating with each other over what self sufficiency is and how it can be best achieved.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Correct... Self-sufficient people do not need farmers and they do not need corn. Do you understand where your mistake is? You are applying the idea of a group of self-sufficient people who create a self-sufficient community to an ordinary NON-self-sufficient community where people who are not self-sufficient and DO need a farmer, and do eat corn.

To begin with: self sufficient people are vegetarians. This cuts out any need for dairy products, like cheese, milk, yogurt, ice cream. This eliminates any need to kill animals, this eliminates any need to raise domesticated animals, this increases their health, this lowers the possibility of any of them becoming sick or catching a fly or cold, this raises the strength of their immune system.

Second: By becoming intelligent vegetarians, they will also cut out all carbohydrates. Carbohydrates are basically sugar. All grains, potatoes and rice and corn are carbohydrates. When you eat these unhealthy addictive substances, they all turn into sugar in your stomach. There is very little difference between eating processed sugar and eating a carbohydrate. The only difference is the time it takes your digestive system to break down the unprocessed carbs into sugar.

This eliminates any need for your community to raise staple foods. The main staples of unenlightened humanity have been: wheat, barley, rice, potatoes and corn for thousands of years. The huge amount of labor and work to raise and grow these staples and then kill them and crush them and turn them into things like bread, pizza, spaghetti, tacos, tortillas, etc is eliminated. Also the need for huge tracts of land to grow these staples is also eliminated.

The result is.... no farmer, and no corn. Just healthy vegetarians who eat only 1/10th the amount of food that uneducated people eat and the result is they are 10 times healthier than other people.

How is this accomplished? BY educating the people who plan to enter such a self-sufficient community into a different CULTURE of eating. Intelligent self-sufficient people do not eat food in order to feel 'pleasure'. They do not eat food to 'feel good' or to feel stuffed. They do not eat food to GRATIFY themselves orally... they have outgrown all oral fixations like sucking on a lollipop or on a cup of coffee.

Intelligent educated self-sufficient people only eat food to get ENERGY. For instance: Let's say you need energy to walk 50 miles and do certain things one day. The first thing you do when you wake up is you don't eat food: you start doing whatever you've planned and only stop to eat when and if you feel your energy-level dropping. This will only happen if you spend 2 hours of arduous labor like chopping logs with an axe or jogging or running or swimming. If you DON'T do heavy work and you don't work up a SWEAT so you're literally sweating; and you just walk and don't jog or run your energy-use will be so small, you won't feel your energy level drop until 11 AM and only then will you stop and eat anything. And even then, you'll be eating 1/10th of what consumers normally eat.

I speak from personal experience. The fact is: the fitter you become, the more active you become: the more EFFICIENT your body becomes at using the food you eat to produce ENERGY. Until you can climb ladders all day and work 12 hours a day and need only eat a few nuts, some salad and an apple, and come home and not feel hungry.

This is what I mean. To become a self-sufficient person, you must change your ROOT-culture of instant self-gratification and addiction to SALT, SUGAR, TOBACCO, ALCOHOL, CAFFEINE, etc... and create a culture of health, energy, happiness, FUN!... PLAY!... laughter and love, by changing how you live and changing yourself.

By the systematic training of your body: you can eliminate any feelings of hunger. The less you eat: the SMALLER your stomach becomes until it is so small and so powerful: it process any food so efficiently that you don't eat supper at all...

WHAT? no supper? Every educated nutritionist and dietitian knows they in order to lose weight and lose your extra fat cells: you should not eat any food 6 hours before sleeping. The evening is for rest and relaxation. ALSO... if you're not hungry and don't eat supper: you sleep better on an empty stomach and wake up feeling more energized and lighter and ready to start the day with instant action!

This is only ONE small part of the training and education which is needed for self-sufficient communities to become practical.

[-] 1 points by selasin (10) 2 years ago

The key to self sufficiency is self control and nothing else, you are even saying this in your post. Give up this kind of food or that kind of drink and in the end you only gain self control.

Read the IIH (initiation into hermetics) by franz bardon

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

listen freak: I don' need to read a fucking book about it: I already DID it: I know how to DO it, and I can TEACH other people how to OD it. I already WROTE the book on how to become self-sufficient. I am a teacher: who teaches from experience: so don't try to refer me to any fucking book. Among other things I am an author and I have written many books myself on many subjects.

One other crucial point about creating and living in an egalitarian community is that there are NO authority figures over you. What you have not yet LEARNED is to not ALLOW anyone to have any authority over you: mentally, morally, ethically, physically, spiritually or socially. You have not yet learned many many things. The key to self-sufficiency is NOT just one thing: it is a whole host of things which I have barely begun to explain to you. The key to self-sufficiency is shutting off your fucking computer and DOING it: not fucking talking about it or writing about it. You have not even begun to reach the level of practicality where you can live without your precious computer.

The key to being an egalitarian is treating everyone is HONESTY and COURAGE. If someone is a better athlete than you are you ADMIT IT and learn from them. If someone is more courageous than you are YOU ADMIT IT. and learn from them IF someone knows more about something than you do YOU ADMIT IT and learn from them.... Until everyone becomes a better human being every day because they are actively and consciously TRYING to become better every day, and because that is the GOAL of LIFE: to become better every day. The goal of LIFE is to never stop learning. The INSTANT you stop learning NEW things, you stop growing and you stop becoming a better human being. In order to do this you must DESTROY all sense of normality and all norms because there is no such thing as normality. Normality does not exist. IN order to never stop learning and becoming a better human being every day of your Life you must NEVER lose your SENSE of PURE WONDER. Every infant and child born into this world has their own natural SENSE of PURE WONDER which is systematically poisoned and destroyed by the artificial womb of civilization.

IN order to RETAIN your Sense of Pure Wonder you must NEVER FORGET YOUR PAST. YOU must always remain true to the infant and child you once were.. You must never deny or forget your own past. You must be able to REMEMBER every significant thing that happened to you and understand WHY it happened to you and WHEN it happened and WHO did WHAT, and DIGEST your past and put it into PERSPECTIVE and COMPARE it to all the other experiences of your life TO EACH OTHER and EVALUATE ALL OF THEM!! And do this EVERY DAY OF YOUR LIFE... so you develop an INTEGRATED PERSONALITY that is the accumulated SUM of ALL your life experiences which is digested and evaluated and CONCENTRATED into the most SIMPLIFIED smallest amount of WISDOM possible.

This means that you must become not only a THINKER: you must also become a FEELER. Yo9u must be able to FEEL ALL HUMAN EMOTIONS. Y9ou must become able to FEEL EVERY HUMAN EMOTION YOU EVER FELT FULLY. You must LEARN to be able to FEEL all the human emotions which you blocked out of your awareness when you were traumatized. You must LEARN how to HEAL YOURSELF from all of the damage and poison of your past and how you were mis-raised and mis-educated, and told lies and swallowed those lies and believe in those lies. IN other words you must become an ACTIVE SEARCHER FOR TRUTH: which means you must actively search for your own INNER truth by exploring your own INNER UNIVERSE: Your own Inner Universe is just as INFINITE as your outer Universe. Why am I telling you this? Because I know from personal experience: that's why. I have already DONE IT. You have not BEGUN to learn what I can teach you. So don't you ever try to refer me to any fucking BOOK. LIFE is not a fucking BOOK. LIFE is DOING. Life is FEELING. LIFE is not a fucking dead machine. LIFE is LIVING PEOPLE TOUCHING EACH OTHER IN PERSON: not fucking e-mails to total strangers.

[-] 1 points by selasin (10) 2 years ago

There are three distinct ways to live life, you can live as a servant, you can live as a slave, or you can live as the master. The servant goes through life looking to serve, they want to serve because they feel it is helping. The slave goes through life looking to serve the self, they work for the self because they feel they are alone. The master goes through life forging his own fate, they forge there own fate only through self control.

Like you said getting off the computer and doing what is required is itself a manifestation of that self control and you have taught me or corrected me in my path. What you're describing is enlightenment or something like the attainment of godhead.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

WRONG: you are living in n abstract bubble: There are not 3 ways to live: there is only ONE way to live and it is the same way for every single human being on earth including you braindead freaks. I am a teacher: the way of a teacher is superior to all slaves masters and servants because he entire SYSTEM OF SLAVERY is corrupt and evil.

Get this through your fucking brain: nobody can learn ANYTHING over the internet. Nobody can teach ANYTHING over the internet. The medium of the internet is an ANTI-SOCIAL DEAD TOY which isolates you from other people. JUST like watching TV isolates you from other people. Just like driving a car insulates you from other people. JUST like staying in your room and not going out and meeting people in person isolates you.

The ONLY WAY you can learn is from me IN PERSON. There is NO OTHER WAY.

I have not taught you a fucking thing. Everything I have told you you have not comprehended. If you want to understand what I am telling you: you will need to come to me in person, and meet me in person. If you are not willing to to that then do not bother anwering this post.

[-] 1 points by selasin (10) 2 years ago

I have nothing against meeting you in person because you do have a great deal of wisdom in your words, it's just how you act that blinds most people to it. The internet and all that other stuff only isolates people who can not properly use it, the same as it will only teach those who know how to use it.

If you truly are a teacher then you would understand the value of perspective and the need to go beyond your own to reach others, being a teacher is not about teaching, it's about inspiring the student to learn, otherwise you will only be talking to deaf ears with mute words.

For example I could see that you are fanatical about teaching, or I could see that you are only interested in starting a cult. I could see that you are expressing the need to become self sufficient, or I could see that you are expressing the desire of everyone depending on you for that self sufficiency which is itself slavery and as you say corrupt and evil.

I could see many things and all of them would be true while also being false, they don't become one or the other until I decide for it to be as such. So far I have decided that you have taught me to stop waiting on others to approve of my actions or to just act and not be bothered so much by the consequences. To be free of inhibition.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Good! Good! Be your own man! Be yourself! Don't listen to anyone unless they agree with your own deepest positive feelings!

Teaching IS about inspiring others: Correct. That is why the computer is useless as a teaching tool: it doesn't inspire anyone. Only by personal example can anyone inspire anyone else, and that is why I said the only time I can teach you is if you meet me in person.

My entire point in self-sufficiency is to become an INDIVIDUALIST as opposed to the herd animals who blindly follow leaders. Only rugged individualists who can stand by themselves are worthy of being part of a community that can stand by itself.

Becoming an independent individual is not easy. It takes many things to become a fully rounded human being, and if you do not want to waste years of your life making mistakes and going down the wrong paths which lead to dead ends and are a waste of time, finding people who can help you is the most intelligent thing you can do apart from the FIRST and most important ethic of growing up: which is: learning from your own mistakes... and don't be afraid to make mistakes! The more mistakes you make, the faster you will learn and grow and change from your OWN experience, not what others tell you.

That is... IF you can differentiate between what is a mistake and what is not a mistake... Which leads to the basic root questions of what is RIGHT and what is wrong.... which leads to the deeper question of what is GOOD and what is evil. Which is why you need a teacher who can educate you about the organic LOGIC of the Universe and how the Universe actually works.

If you find yourself backsliding and making the same mistake twice: admit it and LEARN not to do it again.

Egalitarian communities are based upon the courage to be honest with yourself and with everyone else. If someone is better than you at something: admit it, and learn from them. If someone is worse than you at something admit it; and teach them what they are lacking or doing wrong. That is what intelligent cooperation is all about. There is no such thing as two human beings who are exactly identical to each other, and there is no such thing as two people who are equal to each other in all respects, but the more people SHARE their lives with each other, the more they learn from each other... the more equal they become by learning from each other. You can only do this in person living in close contact with others who are as honest and courageous as you are.

Egalitarian communities are based upon the principle of complete honesty and complete openness: as opposed to the culture of the internet which is based upon secrecy and hiding who you are and what you are. They are diametrically opposed to each other. In an egalitarian community there are NO SECRETS. In an egalitarian community: everyone shares their thoughts and feelings honestly with everyone else...

BUT... in order to do so... you first must be taught to connect yourself TO your true inner self, and discover the true emotions and passions that are inside you. Unlocking your inner potential for creativity can only be achieved if you nurture and develop your innate intrinsic Sense of Pure Wonder. Every baby ever born is born with a SENSE OF PURE WONDER. How that Pure Wonder dies, how it is destroyed and stunted and twisted and poisoned and killed... is the systematic dulling down of human intelligence by what civilized people call 'normality', the dead mechanical boring condition of not questioning anything and taking everything for granted. The universal FACT is... everything you take for granted; you become a victim of. Everything you do NOT take for granted: you can learn from. The less things you take for granted: the more you can learn.

[-] 1 points by selasin (10) 2 years ago

I actually spent some time giving up pop, tv, and internet, during that time I started playing chess, going for walks, and thinking more philosophically.

What I got out of that time was a short period of intense happiness and clarity, not just a feeling of happiness but true to the core happiness that made me feel as if my life could end at that moment and I would be ok with that because I already had everything I needed.

So I definitely agree with you, the less you take for granted the more you learn and the happier you'll be.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You agree with me because you are an individualist who does not conform to the mass norms and goes against the direction that the herd is going. I used to play chess for years on Santa Monica beach also; it exercises your mind. I also played sports and exercise my body; now I'm doing Yoga and jogging and bicycling and walking.

But these solitary pursuits are mere existence, not living. You need to find others who are like you and socialize with them. The OW movement gives you that opportunity to meet people from all walks of life which normally you would never have the opportunity to meet, because normally all these people who come from different walks of life would never socialize and get together. This is the only true positive aspect of the OW movement: their coming together without leaders and organizing and forming communities. If there is an OW movement in your area, go down there and see what's going on. There are meetings almost every night where anyone can stand up and express their ideas and opinions.

[-] 1 points by selasin (10) 2 years ago

It would be fun to have a more active role in my community rather than sitting at home trying to think of ways to start a life. I guess I was blinded by the pursuit of potential, always looking and never finding what was already there.

[-] 1 points by dave86 (4) 2 years ago

Gandhi had a similar idea in creating a autonomous collective of independent self-sustaining villages. The problem is that will actually stagnate poverty and the economy as a whole by keeping wealth, in all its forms, where it is already. We need a redistribution of wealth and one cannot realistically distribute wealth without a currency to symbolize a unit of wealth.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Gandhi never proposed self-sufficiency ever. Self-sufficient community life is the opposite of accumulating anything. It is the OPPOSITE of consumer living for a very simple reason. In order to be 100% self-sufficient means you are not allowed to FILTHY anyone else's community with your trash your garbage your feces your urine. This means that you must recycle everything you accumulate ot else you will drown in your own filth in less than a year. Instead of distributing wealth get RID of it. As long as you measure the success of a community buy its WEALTH this means you are still thinking in terms of MONEY. All of you braindead freaks are unable to think logically. A community that does not value MONEY and does not use MONEY vales fun and happiness and laughter and health because it is the OPPOSITE of the sick diseased society you live in now. Your sick diseased culture AND YOUR PARENTS and your schools and your idols and icons and authority figures do NOT value happiness play fun, Nature. Your sick diseased culture creates sick diseased children who grow up to become even SICKER diseased corrupt adults.

[-] 1 points by stuartchase (861) 2 years ago

Yes, the point is we need to concentrate on the worst of the worst first:

Toshiba America Information Systems, Inc. Digital Products Division 9740 Irvine Boulevard Irvine, CA 92618-1697 1-949-583-3000

They had a heavy hand in Japan's nuclear accident. It's only a matter of time before Japan's nuclear waste affects Americans.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-03-13/tepco-toshiba-jr-east-may-be-among-most-hurt-by-earthquake.html

They sold U.S. military secrets to the Russians.

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/04/15/opinion/l-punishing-toshiba-is-a-secondary-boycott-809388.html

And Toshiba is giving the folks the shaft!

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2213279355#!/group.php?gid=2213279355&v=wall

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/computers/toshiba.html

http://www.boycottowl.com/Toshiba/79

[-] 1 points by kingscrosssection (314) 2 years ago

Because as of right now, a hug, a kiss, and a pat on the back will not help myself or any of my family. Even if it could I would rather do for my family myself than have others do for me.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Wrong: your family lives and dies by how much love you give them You can be poor and on the street: but if you hug and kiss your children and spouse you will survive and stay together. Likewise all the money in the world cannot keep a family that has no love in it together: they will all split up and envy each other and hate each other no matter how much money they have. The most valuable thing you have now is your FAMILY. Family comes BEFORE money.

If you want to help your family: find other families who are in the same predicament you are in and ORGANIZE yourselves into a community, a cooperative community is just a larger FAMILY of loved trusted people who know each other and treat each others as their equal.

[-] 1 points by kingscrosssection (314) 2 years ago

Wrong. My brother tried to kill me on one of his highs. I don't really give a damn what happens to him.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Is your brother the only family you have? What about the other members of your family? Or are you alone?

[-] 1 points by mrkeyjr (29) 2 years ago

God bless people like you. It allows me to remain successful. We need more idiots like you in this world. Get rid of money, classic. Worked great in the middle ages too. Ive got a great idea while we are at it, lets bring back the black plague. That worked as well in the last era of world history in which we did not have a basic currency exchange system. You want to complain that you are in the 99%, well guess why, its because you arent smart enough to move up.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

wrong: it's imbeciles like you we need to get rid of. We need to get rid of all the fucking IGNORANT imbeciles who flunked history and reading comprehension in school and still graduated because your school systems turn out the worst uneducated morons on this planet.

The Middle Ages was a time of robbery because the lust for gold and MONEY: rose to such a high level that people threw away all their christian ethics and morals and began stealing killing and cheating and lying because they thought the end of the world was approaching. They ran away from their cottages and farms and huddled inside towns overpopulating themselves and creating viruses from the packing in of people into small areas called cities: this created disease and filth>> Much like your diseased overpopulated system created you. The new currency exchange has enabled the top1% of the wealthiest robbers and swindlers of the world to rob you the 99% of all your wealth: and you greedy scum applaud them and envy them their filthy lucre because you worship the god of mammon: you worship MONEY: you hate human beings: you LOVE money. The OW movement is the opposite of your filthy kind: they Like people in preference to money.

[-] 1 points by mrkeyjr (29) 2 years ago

Awesome response brother. First off, I find it hilarious that you are calling someone out on reading comprehension and yet not even going the grammatically correct route. Second, before I entered my real career I was a history teacher, and I would be happy to sit you down one day and discuss Dark Age monetary policy. But the long and short is, the 99% your jackass contingent claim to represent would be far better served back then than it needs to be now.

Finally, don't make assumptions online. You were right about one thing. I do LOVE money. Anyone who doesn't isn't that bright. I love money because I realize I can use it to help my family achieve more and at the same time use it to help others achieve more. Please note that i used the term "achieve" and not something like "get." I was raised right. I was raised to strive to be highly successful. And I was also raised to know that when i reach high levels of success, I should give a ton back. So, in short, I am what the OWS group should be. Grow up from modest means (which I did), start from the bottom up (which I did), get better positions constantly through hard work (which I did), and put yourself in a place where you can help others in significant ways (which I do).

And, full disclosure, I still work in the non-profit sector.

So the long and short is, you are angry at your dad, not a me. Go yell at him for not giving you the right Christmas present you hostile, pitiful child.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

One thing about you guilty lying stinking scum is: you try to imagine things which never happened. The only way you can IMAGINE in your fantasy that you are not a despicable scum is by IMAGINING that you are in some way better off than me... The LAST resort of this tactic is imagining that you somehow had better parents than me or a better childhood than me. That's all you're really concerned about: convincing yourselves in your own imaginary fantasy that somehow in some way you're better than I am. The problem with that is I'm not a paranoid scumbag like you are. I don't keep the dirty filthy BORING details of my life a SECRET from other people like you do.

My father was an engineer and he gave me very nice presents when I was little. This was in 1951... before you were born. Like a train set. Ever hear of a child getting a train set for Xmas? When? In 1960 that's when. Have you ever as a child built a snowman with your father and he gives you his hat and scarf to top off the snowman so he comes alive with a carrot for his nose and two pieces of coal for his eyes? Did your father ever bring you to an amusement park when you were only 4 yrs old? Did he ever take you with him when he was visiting his friends in the lake country? Did you ever sit on your father's lap while he read to you because you couldn't read the comic book he had given you? You do not even know what love is . You think giving boxes to children is love. I was not raised in the spoiled greedy selfish culture you grew up in you poor deprived ass. I didn't 'want' ANY presents. They were a total surprise because I wasn't brainwashed by the commercial shit into expecting any because there was no TV or commercial Xmas in the 50's yet. I was lucky. I lived in a time that was free from most the filth you have been programmed into and exposed to.

[-] 1 points by mrkeyjr (29) 2 years ago

Brother, you are awesome. Your insecurity and paranoia blows my mind. Long and short, i know I had better parents than you because the taught me to not paste my life story on the internet to strangers you moron. Further, I was not raised by my parents to make assumptions about others, which, clearly and yet again, based upon this post you were. I am sure your father was a wonderful man though, even though it is apparent in your writings that he raped you violently throughout your childhood.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

THIS IS WHAT YOU WROTE TO ME you scumbag:

"I am sure your father was a wonderful man though, even though it is apparent in your writings that he raped you violently throughout your childhood"

You want to meet ME: fine: I will KILL YOU for that remark

DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME? DO YOU UNDERSTAND? DO YOU UNDERSTAND?>?

[-] 1 points by Peretyatkov (241) from город Пенза, Пензенская область 2 years ago

What a wonderful post! It's about a Great love for People?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2fbMQRKFD8

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You did not read the personal message he sent me threatening violence: privately in secret: trying to keep his hate secret from the public forum.

That filth calling himself "mrkeyjr "... tried to accuse me of what he is guilty of. He accused my of calling his father a pedophile: when it was he who said that about my father.

When a stinking scumbag calls your father a rapist and then accuses you of calling his father a rapist:... that kind of evil behavior and lies is not to be tolerated on any public forum. The only reason these scum do these unbelievable things is because they can hide behind anonymity and never have to face the people they write to. The entire culture of anonymity on the Internet is a sick culture which breed Internet criminals and bred criminal anti-social behavior

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Let me explain something to you you fucking stinking lying piece of shit: every time you come back to me trying to win an argument you let more of your guard down and reveal to everyone what you actually are. First: your entire charade is a scam. You're a little scared shit hiding in your mommy's basement giggling as your sick mind tries to invent more lies and more.

First... in 1950... computers hadn't been invented yet. So it would have been impossible for my father to tell me anything about the internet because that also did not exist when I was growing up. You REALLY exposed that you are: a paranoid freak hiding from others.. You AFRAID to tell anyone who you really are. That is the difference between you and honest people and honest people can see THROUGH liars like you EASILY Your game always fails. In trying to fool other people and lie to them you ALWAYS slip up. My father was a very gentle man and he never came into the bedroom that I shared with my brother. You are STILL trying to imagine some way of feeling or being superior to me and you are failing. What you actually are doing is exposing how terrified you are of anyone knowing any personal details of your life... Decent people who had decent honest parents are PROUD of how they were raised you fucking asshole, they are not AFRAID of telling other people how they were raised by their parents like you.

Secondly... and this will come as a shock to you; now I know one reason why you are such a scumbag... your father raped you when you were little.

No decent clean honest human being could even IMAGINE or invent such a horrible thing. Only someone who was raped and blocked it out of his memory could ever come up with something like that. You are a very very very very sick diseased freak: you know that.

You will never understand decent honest people. Honest people have nothing to hide. Only paranoid sick freaks like you have something to hide. You will never understand honesty. All you understand are lies/

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You a history teacher? You're one of the STUPIDEST freaks on this forum. God help the poor slobs you brainwashed with your conventional propaganda bullshit while you were in school. Don't you know where Robber Baron Capitalism came from you fucking ignorant jackass? It came from the Medieval Robber Barons of the Dark Ages who robbed everyone who came into their regions: which led to a system of taxation that starved the poor into destitution. You're an upwardly mobile snob and you do not understand logic and you do not know your history. You are another fucking SWINDLER of the system: your horrible unending GUILTY CONSCIENCE has sent to. You're a racketeer. ALL the so-called 'non-profit' organizations are rackets for the rich few who profit from them. You don't love your family I can tell you right now to your face.

First try running your non-profit organizations without making money off them you hypocrite. All charitable non-profit organizations are RACKETS designed expressly for the RICH. Just like all church bazaars are designed for the RICH pastor or reverend to keep his RICH comfortable upwardly mobile STATUS SYMBOL of a job while making TOKEN efforts to help other that don't help anyone, and making sure there are plenty of people who are BELOW him and poorer than he is and have no power. Your kind of hypocrisy has been around for over 5,000 years and you STINK of it. If you want to practice what you preach: give away all your wealth to them and join the poorest of your congregation in dumpster diving. That is what an egalitarian community is: people who are EQUAL in everything. You stink of hypocrisy and greed. Get way from me, you're disgusting.

[-] 1 points by mrkeyjr (29) 2 years ago

Turak, again, awesome response. And please know I am responding to this only because I cannot fall asleep right now. So, if my response is a bit rude, I apologize, but man, your hostility is palpable. Maybe the reason you are part of the 5% (Im not going to call it the 99%, but instead I will recognize the 5% that are completely unhireable) which is because you are a raging psychopath. I love that you mocked my former students (poor slobs as you called them), who came from some of the worst sections of the city in which I worked. Yet 95% of them went on to 4 year colleges and of that group 100% have graduated within 5 years. More importantly, none of my former students are sitting on their asses in parks claiming to be part of a cause. They are actually doing something with their lives. I would be happy to put you in touch with them as they would more than likely be able to give some career advice.

Further, I thoroughly enjoyed how worked up you got about my questioning your knowledge of Dark Age economics. What are you, five (I honestly hope you are)? Your pouting on that end really screams of an insecure human being. Truly exemplifies how sad a person you are. I get a kick out of people who are so stupid that they get hung up on the most irrelevant detail of a conversation, so thanks for that. In short, that little tantrum on your end summed up all of the faults with the OWS movement. It made me all the more excited for going through the park Monday on my way to work and seeing any remaining idiots getting cuffed.

But what I love most of all is that your responses represents the worst of the OWS movement. You clearly are an intelligent human being. It appears you have a fairly decent vocabulary and it also seems you have a rudimentary knowledge of world history. But you use said attributes to attack those whom could help you rather than reach out to them. You mock non-profits? A quote, by you, "All charitable non-profit organizations are RACKETS designed expressly for the RICH." I know this sounds rude, but are you mentally retarded? Do me a favor, give a ring to the NAACP, NEA, AYSO, NWA, WWF or any other 1,000,000 non profits to help support your jack ass claim. Rather than kick them in the nuts, reach out to them. They do far more that you think they do. And, unlike what you seem to think, they don't "make" money. the excess income they earn either has to go into reserves or to programatic costs.

Me and those like me aren't hypocrites. We are doing what you are too damned lazy to do. I actually make change. And just to be clear, while you might make change in the form of breaking a $20 for someone, I mean that i affect positive change in the world. Please continue to use the rhetoric of marx and other morons like him to support your cause, but know this, I produce results, you produce pamphlets. And just for proof, last year I helped to place over 1,000 inner-city kids in some of the best private boarding schools in NE. What in the hell did you do you sad boy?

Best of luck to you man. I hope you can come up with something to lie to your parents about at the Thanksgiving Day dinner table. Otherwise, a gun is cheap and bullets are cheaper. Do us all a favor.

Again, you are angry at your dad for not loving you. And, based upon your recent post, just because one clergy member raped you, doesnt mean all will.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Apparently you missed my reply explaining to you that you do not know what love is. I am 64 years old and you have a VERY guilty conscience. I do not. What is VERY telling is your attempt to laugh at the fact that your robber baron culture of robbery greed and swindling comes from the robber barons of the Dark ages, In fact you don't DARE even mention this because you are a guilty little shit and a snob and you have never helped anyone in your life except yourself. You are the classic upwardly mobile snob asshole capitalist. There are 100's of millions like you in all walks of life and your racket calling yourself non-profit is a total SWINDLE.... I know it and YOU know it.. What you REALLY do is brainwash children into becoming cut-throat sharks and systematically destroy all of their human values and decency, by worshiping MONEY. The FACT that you gauge your own success by money prove that you are the lowest scum on earth. I am 64 years old and I am not a part of the OW movement. That is another mistake you made. Your entire post is based upon your imaginary fallacies that don't exist. You had VERY BAD PARENTS. You must be Jewish because only Jews crow about how wealthy and affluent they are. If you ever read Mathew Jacobson's 'The Robber Barons' it will shut your mouth very nicely: but you will never read any book that can prove to you how evil you actually are in worshiping the filthiest scum of criminals ever born. Your entire system of criminal greed and illegal swindles is about to crash. Again: read my post where I explain what kind of childhood I had. You are the enemy of all decent people who are fighting against the corrupt system you PROFIT from. Until you study the logic of sociology and the mathematics of hierarchical upwardly mobile cultures: you will not understand how evil you truly are. The worst poverty is always CREATED by cultures of greed and selfishness. You CREATE greed..

[-] 1 points by mrkeyjr (29) 2 years ago

This was amazing Turak. I loved every minute of it. First, good to know you are an Anti-Semite. That is another negative on your checklist. And, I must admit, Im a bit confused as to how you got to the whole daddy rape thing, that was a bit odd. But, Im guessing you have a ton of free time as one can only assume that whatever family you have wants nothing to do with you. I cant imagine being hated by those who are supposed to love me. Please explain that one to me.

Anywho, I have got to say, if what you claim I do in my day job is true, Ive got to think, Im doing a good thing. Money is important. I do not have the mentors in my program teach kids to worship money, but I do encourage them to impress upon our participants to realize what money, earned in the right way, can do. The only thing more important than money is family and loving relationships. And in order to appreciate money, one has to appreciate hard work, values, education, and also relationships. One cannot hope to be successful financially without success in life. This is what we impress upon the children in the program I help run. And, as most of them are going on to college and demonstrating success both professionally and socially, I think Im doing a pretty damned good job.

Oh, and by the way, you are wrong the worst poverty is created by drought or massive epidemics.

I look forward to hearing your next incoherent, grammatically fouled rant. Me and others have turned it into an interesting drinking game, so please respond sooner rather than later.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Wrong: poverty is created by your corporate greed and the world bank destroying the economies of 3rd world countries like Jamaica and African nations. Your nation is the most evil nation on earth and you are an upwardly mobile arrogant smug capitalist pig teaching children the evils of worldly success. Let me tell you about the money you make: It has destroyed your family and your human relationships with your children and your wife... Money destroys love. Worldly success destroys all human relationships. You are an agent of evil. The entire world of capitalist greed does NOT run by education, and hard work work being rewarded with worldly success. The capitalist world functions in the opposite manner. Those who work the hardest get paid the least. Those who stand out by being too competent are fired. Those who do the least work get the most money. Those who are the most incompetent rise to the highest positions. You cannot earn money 'the right way'. All money is evil. Your entire nation is in an economic depression and you are in denial.SOMEBODY must have raped you when you were a child or you would never put that piece of imaginary filth into a post. You are hiding tons of hate. You are a corrupter of youth. You and all the capitalist commercial filth companies that are now using Santa Claus to sell diamonds and expensive cars to the rich while selling cheap pizza to the poor. You have no culture but the culture of greed and the love of money. Keep up your stinking lies and facade and watch your fake smile crack.

[-] 1 points by mrkeyjr (29) 2 years ago

Turak, again, thank you. Your responses make my "fake smile" go ear to ear. I do appreciate you deviating from your anti-semitic rants (although I assume Mel Gibson is a bit upset with you now). The only people who bitch about money are those that have none. You obviously are one of them. The only people who talk about failed relationships are those who have done nothing but fail at them. Clearly you take the cake on that one as you drone on constantly as how to fail at them. I sort of wish you were right when you claim that I were hiding tons of hate as it would give some credence to your anger, but it simply isnt true. Im pretty contented.

And, it is obvious you have no idea how the "real world" works, at least in terms of the society in which i work. While you may be correct that those who work the hardest get paid the least, we have different definitions of hard work. A ditch digger works his rear off, I do not deny that. But, the work that said ditch digger does is far less important than a computer programmer who creates a program that allows for detection of heart problems or earthquakes. So, in my opinion, the 18 hours that a ditch digger puts in is worth far less than that the 5 hours said computer programer puts in.

Also, the "world of capitalist greed" as you put it does run by education and hard work. This is a nation in which those who get solid educations and work hard succeed, despite what those in the so-called 99% claim. We are a nation of the Carnegie's, Mellon's, Ford's..... All were well educated, either formally or informally (as were their modern day counter-parts such as Jobbs, Knight, Gates) and worked their asses off. Even Gates who dropped out still worked hard enough to get into Harvard before dropping out.

Just a few other points, as I type this. I am looking at my beautiful wife (who laughed her ass off at you comments) and thinking about my kids who are asleep. And as I look into the eyes of my wife and realize how happy we are together, and when i think about taking my kids for a walk in the AM, I realize how wrong and sad you are. Then, when I consider that my entire family (including my brother and sister's kids and significant others) will be enjoying Thanksgiving together in a few short days with our parents, I think all can agree that the money I have earned has not "Destroyed my family" as you put it.

Long and short, you are an angry pitiful man. There is a quick and easy solution to this. Take a deep breath, walk across the street, have a drink, and begin to realize that your failures are yours, and not due to anyone else but you.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

I told you scum to not send me any more of your personal hate mail in private: you fucking scumbag

You want to meet me in Montreal? With pleasure: right on top of Mount Royal: The promontory looking out over Montreal called the OUTLOOK: ANY TIME YOU WISH. and you will ANSWER for what you said about my father. IN PERSON TO MY FACE Name the date and the time.

Stop hiding your filth in secrecy scumbag and come out in the open you revolting thing.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Show your wife where you said my father violently raped me: then show her the private messages you sent me: then see if she will spit ion your face: okay?

As to your gluttony on Thanksgiving: I am a vegetarian and I do not celebrate gluttony on Thanksgiving or on Xmas. I know exactly how the world works: which is why I am creating a community that is self-sufficient and does not use money. Then all of you smug asses will have nothing to crow about: get it yet? Your only superiority comes from how much 'money' you have and how you have more 'money' than other people. That is exactly why you are scum and why you are a corrupter of youth. Teaching children to work for nothing but money is sick. As the only value you have: money makes you EMPTY inside. Your inner soul is filled with hate and envy, and false superiority. Without your money you would commit suicide because you have no human morals or values that are GREATER than your love of money and material status possessions.. You JUDGE other people by how much MONEY they have. That is totally immoral and sick. I do not drink alcohol and I do not drink coffee. I drink spring water and I am very fit and healthy.

Again: show your wife where you tell me that my father raped me violently:: when you come to meet me about that I will kill you for it. And show her the private messages you sent me and my replies: fair enough? It's called HONESTY. You see you're not supposed to HIDE things from your wife or your children. Show your children my posts and your posts and see what they say about your behavior. Then come and see me. With your children and your wife: unless you want to meet me in private: that will be fine also. But no more private messages you little stinking scum: I prefer open honesty unlike you.

[-] 1 points by themonkeyking (7) 2 years ago

We stand for freedom of living. We have our intrinsic understanding of moral living, we don't harm one another and we don't steal from one another. But we have been harmed by expectations placed on OUR LIVES that are enforced by our fellow free living brothers and sisters who's option of FREEDOM is hidden from them as it once was from us. We have been stolen from. Our very life is being PILFERED by the EGO-MANIACAL CORPORATE controllers who display little to NO REGARD for the WELL-BEING of HUMANITY or for the THE EARTH which supports our free lives.

We are making a stand against the OPPRESSION that has been incorporated into our ENTIRE SOCIETY!.. The enforcement of CORRUPTED EDUCATION OF OUR CHILDREN!.. The exponentially increasing demand of INTEREST ON MONETARY CURRENCY!... the agendas of TRUSTED yet clearly BIASED MEDIA...

Our policy is: STRENGTH IN; NUMBERS, UNITY AND FAITH. The numbers of natural people who are aware of our oppression, unity of understanding and intention, faith in a natural REVOLUTION AND EVOLUTION of OUR SOCIETY!

Pay attention.

We are a headless beast who is intent on consuming its imposed master. Our RAGE is our driving force which fuels our resolve. Our actions are becoming more and more anarchistic and our desires to create a new society are becoming impatient. We must first acknowledge our opponent for they designed the game and INDOCTRINATED the referees. We are running a course that has only one possible out-outcome which is in opposition of our INTRINSIC VALUES... war. We are leaving our opponent with few options and we know that they have the tools of EDUCATION, MONEY and MEDIA.

I SAY: ANYONE WHO COMMITS AND ACT OF AGGRESSION IS A SABOTEUR! That includes, verbal abuse, physical impedance of ignorant society and certainly any act of violence. DON'T GIVE IN TO PROVOcATION!Be assured that while we unwittingly sabotage ourselves, there will also be infiltrators intentionally spoiling our noble cause. Consider those who's interviews are aired on television. WE MUST incorporate UNDERSTANDING, SYMPATHY and EMPATHY into our approach towards the poor souls who are too afraid to let go of the BRAINWASHED condition of their lives.

We must use the weapons of our enemy if we wish to achieve our goals. The weapons of EDUCATION, MONEY and MEDIA. It isn't enough to say "We know what's going on here!" We need to awaken the ignorant masses by answering their long forgotten, unanswered questions. We can pool our monetary resources. I have heard many talking about closing their bank accounts and discarding their assets. If you want to do it, MAKE IT COUNT!. We can create easily palatable, concise and ENTERTAINING TELEVISIONS COMMERCIALS, NEWSPAPER ADVERTISEMENTS, GOOGLE ADS, and we can PAY MONEY to have them PLACED IN ENEMY TERRITORY. TEACHERS can hold faculty meetings to discuss a special class for the dear children.

For TOO LONG, power over humanity has been inherited by the FORTUNATE FEW! For TOO LONG, the IGNORANT MASSES have served the desires of our OPPRESSORS! For TOO LONG, the strings of society have been pulled from behind the curtain. For TOO LONG, have we accepted the ILLUSION of FREEDOM and LIBERTY! For TOO LONG, we have accepted UNREASONABLE EXPECTATIONS as our own. For TOO LONG, we have donr little more than COMPLAIN and THROW TANTRUMS!

IT IS TIME FOR ORGANISED RESISTANCE!

IT IS TIME TO CREATE A PLAN!

IT IS TIME TO BEGIN A TRANSITION!

IT IS TIME FOR CHANGE!

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

CORRECT.... For once an activist who is on the streets has come here on this forum and has shown all you fucking freaks what HUMAN EMOTION is... capital letters and all...

What is going on is class warfare: and it is DEADLY and VIOLENT and it not for computer freaks shivering in their isolation chambers.

This person knows how important ORGANIZATION Is: he knows how important PLANNING is: because he is an ACTIVIST. He actually is doing something. He is PRACTICAL. He is REALIST. He faces problems head-on and solves them head-on and does not stop: and NOBODY will stop him. One million of you fucking computer generation freaks couldn't stop him.

Understand this: the people in Liberty Square fighting for justice and a fair deal ARE NOT LIKE YOU FREAKS ON THIS FORUM. They are not little paranoid scared terrified wimps shivering in the fucking computer holes like all of you are doing. They're out there on the front lines fighting for EVERYONE: and EVERYONE SHOULD JOIN THEM.

Whether or not their movement wins out depends on how many of you fucking spineless jerks find the courage to stand up and be counted in the fight to regain control over the society you live in. If the OW movement fails: it will be because of YOU the true 99%: the 99% of the masses of cowards and selfish greedy pigs who have sold their souls to the almighty dollar.

[-] 1 points by starSparrow (23) 2 years ago

We have much to learn when They finely choose to revel them selvs to us, I know you have seen it to.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

I don't know what you're babbling about freak and neither do you and neither does anyone else on this forum.

[-] 1 points by starSparrow (23) 2 years ago

You will hear my song when it dances upon your Heart.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

get lost you fucking sick jerk: you're already lost inside your own insanity. now stay inside your fucking shit filled brain and don't come out again until you're DEAD

[-] 1 points by starSparrow (23) 2 years ago

Never forget those famous words, December shall come in like a dog unto the lamb of christ, and so it shall be. You must Remember this always cause it is more important every day.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Remember these famous words:

As far as your future is concerned: your fucked

Unless you cut out all video games and all TV and all internet and computers and cell phones and text messaging and going on internet forum spewing your meaningless crap.

The dogs of wall street have already eaten the lamb: you freak.

[-] 1 points by betsydoula (143) from Beverly Hills, FL 2 years ago

Some of you on this thread may be interested in the following:

http://www.globalonenessproject.org/videos/whatwoulditlooklike http://www.freeworldcharter.org/

The first one talks about our connectedness as a human race. The Free World Charter is about a world without money. The thing is we are connected by the fact that we are human. Now that the world economy is crumbling we have been forced to recognize our connection with everyone everywhere. It is very uncomfortable for lots of people. They do not want to be connected to others. We have been taught that independence is critical to our survival,when in fact, the opposite is true. People cling to the familiar. We are creatures of habit. I agree wholeheartedly that the change begins within. The systems in place have not been working for most people for a long time, and the people are awakening from their coma. It is time for a whole new world. No matter what band-aid you place on a hemorrhage, it will continue to bleed. It requires emergency surgery. This is the same for our economic, political, educational and other major institutionalized systems. The band-aid approach will not fix them. Yet, it is evident that we all have different ideas on how to fix everything. The only true change you can make is how you think, act, feel, perceive, and interact with others. As long as we continue to consume the products and the propaganda nothing will change. Although we need to be self sufficient and non dependent on the systems that are failing, we are interdependent upon each other. I would love to keep this discussion going minus the name calling, as that does not allow for as open a dialogue as possible. We can agree to disagree. Eventually, those that do not understand what's happening (Babylon all over again), will be forced to join the movement when they are personally affected by the collapse.

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

BEVERLY HILLS in Los Angeles California!!?? I worked in Beverly hills for quite a number of years... Let me ask you: Are you against all the multi-millionaires who live ini Beverly Hills? Or are you one of them? You post is very intelligent, but I do not believe it came from anyone, ANYONE living in Beverly Hills...

One basic mistake you make is your mindset; assuming the human race has any connectedness, and speaking as if all the world's problems will be solved by humans coming together as a single global social entity. The exact opposite is true. 6.8 billion humans are now more isolated, and alienated from each other more than they have ever been before. This comes from the exponential increasing overpopulation. It's the lemming syndrome. The more lemmings there are overpopulating any region, the more insane they get until they all go stark raving mad and start running in huge mass herds: just to get away from each other... But instead of getting away from each other: they pack themselves into tighter and tighter masses of squeaking terrified mice and never stop running until they all die and commit mass suicide. That's what happens when there is mass panic: the opposite of what you're trying happens to you.

That is the anthropological and sociological reason why humans do not want to be connected to each other. We were not designed to live packed together in huge masses.

Also, your other mistake is: Being an independent as an INDIVIDUAL is the MOST important thing humans must learn first before anything else.. People must learn to think for themselves and act for themselves and not rely on their nanny state Govt and infrastructure to give them everything they want without them lifting a finger.

Self-sufficient communities solve this problem very efficiently. For instance if you create your own small self-sufficient community, the first hard fact you will be faced with is what to do with all the garbage you create. You no longer will have someone towing away your garbage to dump somewhere else. This will FORCE you to become ecologically responsible and stop wasting and stop consuming as much as possible. It will FORCE you to become frugal, efficient, innovative, and recycle EVERYTHING you use or consume. Otherwise your small self-sufficient community will become an ugly garbage dump and it will rot and smell and all of you will leave that community because you did not care for the land you live on..

People DO need to come together and connect with each other: YES. But only as individuals who are already as self-sufficient as possible, and from that: create a SMALL community which is as self-sufficient as possible.

Also: SMALL self-sufficient communities solve the problems you have of disagreement between individuals and their differences. The larger your community is: the more difficult it will be to reach an agreement about anything. The magic number of people in any self-sufficient community should be either 12, 24, or 36 people: no bigger than 36. Not 11 people or 25 people or 18 people: Once you form a group that is mathematically in harmony with the rest of the Universe, you will discover how much better everything turns out for you.

[-] -1 points by betsydoula (143) from Beverly Hills, FL 2 years ago

First off I live in a rural community in Florida, but that doesn't really matter. I guess to you it does, because you would lump all who live in one area into one neat category. When you turn us all inside out we are all the same. Where we live is irrelevant unless we make it relevant. It seems that you like to point out differences. I'd rather point out what we have in common than where we differ. I do not profess to have all the answers, as you do. It is my intention to connect with others to reach common ground. When you talk about a small self-sufficient community you still can not do it alone on an island without another human being. Well, you can but that is not how we are meant to live.

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Now you're reacting like a prejudiced idiot in order to BLOCK OUT the logical facts I told you. You say you do not pretend to have all the answers. What you're really saying is that you don't want to even LISTEN to the answer. You act as if the only one who can ever have the answer to how we humans should live is a GOD, or some super-transcendent, AUTHORITY FIGURE. Not ordinary practical human beings with plain common sense. You are retreating into a SHELL of artificial self-created stupidity on purpose, using this as an excuse to avoid to listen or understand what I told you.

Ahhh: so you come from a rural community! That is VERY different from Beverly Hills California. Understand this> WHERE you come from, how you were raised, what kind of family you were born into, what kind of schools you went to, the culture you lived in, the values of your culture, and especially, the UNSPOKEN assumption your culture has are all CRUCIAL and very important in determining just who you will be able to connect with and who you can't stand and have an instinctual antipathy towards. There is no such thing as any global brotherly love between 6.8 billion humans on this planet. I've lived in many many different cultures and know hundreds of people from different backgrounds and cultures and neighborhoods, and they all stick together in small tiny cliques and do not allow ANYONE ELSE in their small exclusive groupof snobs.

Yes we are all the same species: BUT... we are not designed to live as one species. We are not designed to live as a huge overpopulated mass of lemmings, we are NOT designed to live together in any huge mass. We are designed to live together in small communal societies;no more than that and no less.

Your other snide remark about me founding a self-sufficient community of one is disgusting. It exposes your hidden RESENTMENT against the truths which I tell you. I am going to create a community of 12, 24 or 36 individuals> Not a community one 1. One person is not a community. Your hate is showing. Look at it, and ask yourself why you resent being told the logical truth that is practical.

[-] 1 points by rebwvf (11) 2 years ago

A utopian society (which is what I am assuming you are describing) is possible. In the state our society is in, we are so far from this goal it is almost laughable (as many seem to enjoy doing). I too have thought the very same thing, with all these problems focused on money, why not eliminate it? As I said above, this is possible, but only when people are willing to overcome greed and fear will this idea have a chance.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Wrong : Only when people become intelligent. Only when they grow up. Creating a self-sufficient community intelligently through voluntary cooperation is not a utopia: it is hardship. It is DIFFICULT. It is the most challenging and difficult thing you can do... It is also the most REWARDING thing you can do. Living without all your fat-ass luxuries which you have become accustomed to is NOT a Utopia. Creating personal bonds with the people you live with and hammering out your differences is NOT Utopia: it is the most emotionally energizing thing you can do.

The basic problem is that all of you sick freaks are not human. You need to be TAUGHT how to be a human being. You've forgotten how to be a human being. Your mass lemming culture of EASE and LUXURY has turned all of you into spoiled infantile weak babies with no will, no self-discipline, no decent education and no self-respect , it has turned all of you computer generation zombies into mindless android-sheep, into PARANOID, resigned, apathetic, emotionally DEAD robots. All of you need a good swift hard kick up your asses. All of you need to start exercising and eating healthier, and go cold turkey: no more DRUGS: no more COFFEE, no more SOFT DRINKS , no more MILK... just pure, clean water. Try that just for starters. You will see that thist is not a fucking Utopia: it's a return to SANITY. It is a return to FACING the cold hard facts of reality instead of wallowing in fictional fantasy, it's a return to HEALTH..

[-] 1 points by lisa (425) 2 years ago

Money is just a tool for the country and world to get and trade in things that people need and use. If you eliminate money you will need some other manner or form of distributing the resources and things that people need. You will need oversight of that distribution.

With the lack of resources (enough food, fuel, land) to provide for the world's population, a resource based economy will still have problems of implementation.

What do you do in countries that are plagued with drought that have millions of people dieing and starving, example Somalia and Africa?

They have no resources to give to the world, they have climate related problems. There is enough wealth in the world, but those with the money have done nothing to develop agriculture for them. Nobody tries to build pipelines to deliver water, or builds desalinization plants that could be used to separate the salt out of ocean water and be piped into irrigation pipes?

Why? They want a return on any investment they make. They don't just try to help poor starving people, they will only invest in oil ventures where they can make 300-400% profits.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

you're thinking like an omnipotent god when you are the most powerless ineffectual imbeciles on earth. You pretend to have the power fox all the problems of 6.8 billion people? Instead No: you sneer at anyone who does not have an instant answer and solution to the problems of 6.8 billion people. Oh! Since creating a small self-sufficient community will not solve all the problems of 6.8 billion people, then why is it wrong? You ramble about global capitalism as if you know what is happening and you are fantasizing yourself as some fucking God tsk-tsking about how selfish corporate capitalism never helps the poor but only makes the rich richer? You idiocy is so fucking filled with shit it would take three pages to detail all the shit you spew. So self-sufficient communities are supposed to 'contribute' to the 6.8 billion idiots who refuse to stop their greed and capitalist love of money? Why? You think money is a tool? For who? for some fucking god who pulls all the strings of 6.8 billion humans? You think that some magic will make 6.9 billion people suddenly change how they live and become intelligent self-sufficient community cooperating individualists who don't use money? Where do you find your fantasies from? Your asshole?

[-] 1 points by tulcak (698) from Prague, Prague 2 years ago

I have thought this all my life. I CAN imagine a world without money and its a much better place than this sci-fi black alternate future world we find ourselves in. money is for selfish children. as long as we use it, that's what we will remain.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Stop imagining and DO it you dumb idiot. Sitting on your ass imagining things is why all of you are addicted to fantasy, fiction and lies.

[-] 1 points by OneMansOpinion (76) 2 years ago

Until we can get country of origin labels tightened so that we can make the Right choice.

Do the following and encourage others.

-Buy American even if its a couple dollars more. This is the most important message.

-Organize peaceful demonstrations outside prominent retailers. To encourage them promote a American made alternative for every product they carry. Retailers have a lot of options on in store placement and promotion so vote with your dollars and protest if they are not visibly supporting American made products.

-Spread the word. If this movement only did one thing. Keeping American dollars in America then we would solve our current crisis.

This grass roots movement can make a change one person at a time and one dollar at a time.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-war-with-america-was-won-before-the-first-shot

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You're disgusting: all you Americans are obsessed about is MONEY MONEY MONEY: you're no better than the top 1% and that's why your entire movement is a farce and a joke..

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Wrong: you haven't studied the history of your own nation, you don't even know the history of your own nation, you haven't studied the history of the human species going back millions of years. You haven't studied anthropology or paleontology or all the other disciplines of Science that have crucial proven facts which will tell you what the real problem is. The real problem is you don't read books. You don't read period. You're not a curious person. You don't ask questions. You don't go to the trouble of finding your own answers. You expect other people to give you the answers. And whatever you read, you don't understand, and whatever you understand, you can't retain in your mind, and what little you can retain in your mind is garbage, propaganda, lie, misinformation, disinformation and bullshit. The problem is you're brainwashed. You've been programed to worship and obey authority. You've been programmed and brainwashed into being a nice obedient terrified little mouse. You've been brainwashed into being 'polite'. You've been brainwashed into believing polite lies. You've been brainwashed into believing that anyone who isn't 'polite' enough to suit your fucking prejudiced ass must be not telling the truth... when the actual truth is that all assholes who are 'polite' aren't telling you the truth. All people who are 'polite' are assholes, hypocrites and liars. You've been brainwashed into believing that black is white and white is black when all the facts prove otherwise. You're so fucking stupid you don't respect facts. You think you can ignore facts. You think you can invent facts. You think you can invent fantasies that are more real than actuality. You think you can believe in lies and still be intelligent. You think that lying is being 'smart'. You think the more you lie through your fucking teeth the 'smarter' you are.

Well I've got news for you. You and all the other freaks on this forum are totally WRONG.

[-] 1 points by OneMansOpinion (76) 2 years ago

Hey WOW! love your insightful feedback. I read it several time to make sure that I could really understand all of your fantastic points. I get it now. Live and let live. No point in trying to understand of make a difference. If someone says "back of the bus because I don't like your color". Then back of the bus it is. No point in rocking the boat. I will really try and read all the books read history and I promise I will finally realize that its all Good. I feel so relieved to know that the atrocities of the past and that I can fix everything with a smile.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Wrong: you didn't understand a word I said which proves just how fucking stupid you actually are. I am against the entire establishment and the use of money. Creating your own self-sufficient community of equals with no leaders without using money is the only intelligent alternative to the corporate global greed which has gripped 6.8 billion stupid apes and leading them all into ruin. Because you're illiterate: you can't understand what I just told you. Get off the bus. No buses. No highway systems, no global trade, no energy crisis, no fuel shortages. Stop being a dependent victim of the system you live in. Screw the entire capitalist system: its beyond repair. Be creative.

You can't do that. That's your problem: not mine.

[-] 1 points by OneMansOpinion (76) 2 years ago

You might be surprised that I agree with most of what you say. Money is meaningless. That was my point. I think that the Amish have a great lifestyle "not sarcasm". My next home will be off the grid so that i can cut the ties to the system. I am not keen on leading or following anyone. But i respect people right to free speech. I feel that as long as my family is clothed fed with a roof overhead and happy then that's the wealth I am after. My only point is help your brothers and sisters next door by buying what they sell if you need it.

And before you get on me about using money to buy it. Trade a chicken or a loaf of bread so your brother and sister can eat.

And for those people that don't want to opt-out then I am only suggesting that as a country we opt-out of playing other peoples games.

I wish the best for you and your family.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

The point is... if you study the history of America and capitalism: If you study the rise of Wal-MArt and the mall culture. You will learn that mass manufacturing and consumer capitalism has been systematically destroying human communities and human relationships ever since it was invented. Consumer capitalism is an ENEMY of your family, it is an ENEMY of your relationships with your wife and children. It tries to make you believe that giving your wife a 5,000 dollar diamond bracelet proves how much you love her. It tries to make you believe that the only way you can show love for your children is to buy them shit they don't need: Crap they have been brainwashed into wanting. Steve Jobs that bastard said it: "It is not the job of the consumer to know what they want. That's our job." The insanity of living your life: so what you want is not decided by you means that you no longer have any freedom or power of choice LEFT. To which I say: they can all stick their fucking computers and cell phones up their fucking ass and eat plastic. If you don't recognize who and what is the ENEMY of your family: if you let the ENEMY into your house. If you let your children watch TV and go on the internet: you are just another fool who thinks he can live inside the system without the system corrupting his children and his entire family.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You're still on the bus. You're still stupid. You're locked into your mono-culture of the nuclear family. Nuclear families were created by the destruction of human communities living together as self-sufficient organized cooperative societies. if you live in a self-sufficient community instead of a nuclear family you won't need to trade a fucking thing because you won't be isolated from the other people you live with, and you won't have a middle class house that shuts you off from the community you live in and you won't have a car, and you won't be living in a suburb that needs cars, and you won't be buying or selling anything. The food your community grows will belong to everyone and you will be a vegetarian and you won't be eating meat or eggs or milk so you won't need to trade anything to be healthy and fit. I've been a vegetarian for over 20 years, I'm 64 years old, and I can jog 3 miles without even breaking into a sweat... and I'm not even close to the fitness level I want to be. You won't be watching TV and you won't be using a computer and you won't be working for ANYONE period and you won't need money to live and have a roof over your head... What you are suffering from is the inability to change your basic bad ways of living which are unintelligent and irrational: By living in a nuclear family, you cripple your children by not allowing them to live in a community which has many other children they can play with and make friends and have fun. Lonely bored children with nothing to do except suck on the mass media propaganda and plastic toys is what you are forcing them into because you live as a nuclear family instead of in a self-sufficient community.

My sister raised her children in a fucking suburb... after the school dropped off her kids, the closest friend Peter had was a boy who lived ONE MILE away... Do you have any idea of how lonely he was all his childhood? I was lucky. My family didn't live in a suburb. I had tons of other kids I played with after school, before school, during school break and at lunchtime. That kind of neighborhood doesn't exist anymore because it has been destroyed by commercial for-profit capitalist greed and corporations who don't ant people to be come independent. The commercial world of business has only one agenda: it wants to enslave you into complete DEPENDENCE on them. It only wants one thing: your MONEY. 20 years ago, the degree of that social sickness was portrayed by the TV show "Roseanne"... As a fictitious mother who was NOT working: a mother that stayed home and took care of her children. A single provider family that is now non-existent. And what did her children do after school? They went to the fucking MALL: because there was nothing else to do in her stinking American working class neighborhood. And that was supposed to be an example of how to raise children well! Now, 20 years later: the degree of social ROT and corruption in American society is ten time worse than it was back in the 90's.

Living in a self-sufficient community of many married people who have children sot only solves all of your nuclear family problems, it solves all of the problems of your children being exposed to the rottenness and corruption of the commercial advertising mass media blitz that modern American children are brainwashed by before they can walk. It gets rid of the supermarket syndrome. It gets rid of the evils of shopping in supermarkets that have millions of things that are not healthy and are toxic. It gets rid of the shopping mentality. It gets rid of buying and selling as the only two fucking things you do, which is the sickest way you can live. You haven't BEGUN to wake up.

[-] 1 points by thezencarpenter (131) 2 years ago

You seem like a very talented, creative person with LOTS of time on your hands.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You noticed: Yes: over my life I've composed and played my own music, created my own artwork, written my own poetry, created my own choreographing in dance, my own way of living. I'm self employed. Ever take a 1 month vacation? Ever stay up north all week and get a nice suntan by not coming back on Sunday night because you don't have to go to work and you don't have any boss that can fire you any time they want to? Being self-employed gives me a LOT of free time. Time to go to the beach all day and play volleyball and play chess and go roller skating. Ever play chess all day on the beach? You get tanned AND exercise your mind at the same time. Time to go cross-country skiing and kayaking and biking. Time to write books and time to think and time to study history, time to read the classics and study literature, time to educate myself, time to de-program myself from the sheep/herd mentality the rest of you conformists are locked into. Ever have 3-4 months free time when you don't have to work at all? Try working for yourself and being frugal and you will be AMAZED how much free time you have while all of the rest of you 9-5 wage slaves are busy saying 'yes sir, whatever you say sir' as you take shit from your boss and have to keep your slave mouth shut or else you lose you job.

Now I'm giving you the benefit of all my years of experience and wisdom and what do you shitheads do? You envy me and hate me because I'm telling you the facts and I know how to beat the system you're stuck in. Not one of you idiots have listened to one word I've told you. Instead you pieces of shit make personal comments because none of you DARE to admit I'm telling you the truth, and none of you DARE face the truth about your miserable lives. I am sick and tired of you computer freaks thinking you have as good life, thinking your life is better than other people's because you can play with your fucking distraction toy. I KNOW there are thousands of better ways to live because I've LIVED them and you poor suckers haven't. So shut your snide mouth and go gnash your teeth in IMPOTENCE and frustrated hate and envy because I've shut your trap.

[-] 1 points by thezencarpenter (131) 2 years ago

But, are you happy?

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

I've had more fun in my life than any of you working slobs will ever have in a 100 lifetimes. I've been happy and Ive been sad. I've felt human emotions you've never felt and will never feel because I LIVED my life as I wanted to. I'm 64 years old now you dumb fuck, and the problem I have is that none of you shit stinking dweebs want to have fun. None of you terrified monkeys want to go outside and play sports and enjoy Nature and play and enjoy your life. Why do you think I posted this thread? You dumb ass. Because none of you know how to live and none of you are creative enough to create your own fun. That's why I'm starting a community of the few people who have some initiative, energy, courage honesty, and intelligence where we don't have to live in the middle of boring shits like you. The only reason I don't have as much fun as I used to is because of your corrupt stupid culture of greed, selfishness and consumerism and because all of you brainless idiots are too scared to do anything your mommies frown on. I want to bring more fun back into MY life because I know that sharing your life with other people is the only way you CAN have fun. Not sitting at your fucking isolation machine staring at a dead screen.

If I was having as much fun as I wanted to: I wouldn't have even POSTED this thread because I wouldn't have given a fuck about any idiots who don't know how to enjoy life. The problem I have is the system and culture I'm living in. Millions of dead fucking souls: dead like you, dead: no feelings, no human emotions, no human intelligence: terrified paranoid fucking assholes millions of miserable snobs trying to outsnob each other. None of you with any brains or honesty.

I am going to create my own community in SPITE of you dumb fucks and I will enjoy the rest of my Life a million times more than you enjoy yours... You want to come along and have fun?.... NO?... Too scared to have fun?... then FUCK YOU. You want to learn new things? You want to learn ANYTHING?... No?... then FUCK YOU. You want to experience the Pure Wonder of life? You want to have your brains blown by insights and understandings that will raise the hair on your head?... NO? Then FUCK YOU.

[-] 1 points by thezencarpenter (131) 2 years ago

You don't seem happy.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Are you happy? tell us about your non-existent happiness you dumb fuck. Are you happy with the situation in the world today? Are you happy with global pollution and poisoning of he ground water and oceans of the world? Are you? Are happy about nuclear bombs that can explode and blow your fucking body into atoms in a millisecond? Are you happy about all the dumb fucking senile idiots still alive and living off pensions while young people and babies starve? Little freak: shut your fucking timorous stupid ignorant mouth. You have never experienced happiness in your miserable life. I have.

[-] 1 points by thezencarpenter (131) 2 years ago

I'm very happy, I hope you find it for your self, Good luck

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You are a fucking stinking LIAR. You're living inside your own FANTASY. Everybody is supposed to HAPPY! HAPPY! HAPPY? Where on TV commercials?? Anywhere else? Then how come you're tired and have no energy even to get out of your chair? How come even the shit coffee you drink doesn't give you enough energy to get off your fat ass? How come you won't tell us all the details of your fucking lying false 'happy' life? Exactly WHAT is making you so happy? Cocaine? Heroin? Alcohol? MONEY? Tell us all about your 'happy' friends. Tell us about all the love and happiness they surround you with. How come you never smile? How come you have headaches and backaches? From your fucking nonexistent 'happiness'??? If you are so fucking 'happy'... why don't you share your fucking lying nonexistent 'happiness with US? Tell us what you did to make you so fucking 'happy'... tell us where you go your imaginary fucking 'happiness' from. Can't tell us? can't tell us about how fucking 'happy' you are? eh? You are a stinking fucking filthy LIAR. Let me guess: you're 'happy when you STUFF your selfish face with FOOD: you're PIG. For you: food is 'happiness'. You drool over shit and gobble it as much as you can.

[-] 1 points by jppt (82) 2 years ago

How about in the mean time until money is no longer around we devalue it. We could take any excess money we have and put it into a fund were it could be distributed to those that don't have enough to meet their basic needs. We should in most cases have the same basic needs.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You're THINKING in terms of a mindless faceless mass of millions. idiot. There are no ORGANIZATIONS for that: idiot. All you poor people are not ORGANIZED. All you computer idiots are not ORGANIZED . You're still living in La-La Land expecting some magic fairy godmother to fix your problems FOR you... There is no 'we' you total imbecile. There is no grass roots organization which has the entire world's poor within its membership you impractical fucking baby. All of you are ALIENATED FROM EACH OTHER. All of you have never been taught how to interact with other human beings on a personal level of honesty and courage. None of you have learned how to communicate with each other on a level of equality, honesty and courage. All of you fucking freaks are hiding in your fucking basements terrified of anyone finding out what your real name is and where you really live. That is living and being ANTI-SOCIAL. Your fucking computer culture of isolation and insulation and paranoia is WHY you have no friends and nobody to talk to in person and why you are addicted to this fucking toy which does no good and is a waste of time unless it is used for constructive purposes. Instead you use this toy to waste your life and your time and energy and the end result is ZERO.... NOTHING. a waste of time

[-] 1 points by jackbenimble (3) 2 years ago

This is silly. People work for money so than can get what they need and want. Hugs and kisses may or may not be that thing. Greed really is good. It's corruption that's messing us up.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Brainwashed babies and infantile imbeciles like you are the reason you were robbed of trillions of dollars by the banks and Wall Street. You are just as evil and stupid as the top 1% which this movement is fighting against. You have been identified as an ENEMY OF THE RESISTANCE and now you can fuck off and leave because no decent human being supporting the OW movement will have anything to do with you.

[-] 1 points by Freeman82 (8) 2 years ago

Abolish debt slavery. We need an Andrew Jackson to kick the tyrants of finace the fuck out

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

And you won't get one. If you think anyone in Washington or your White House is going to abolish the federal reserve and regulate the owners of America who OWN your white house and your senate and your congress and your banks and your corporations and your media and Wall Street... you've got nuts in your noggin. Your entire SYSTEM from top to bottom stinks and reeks of greed and corruption. Which is why it is a total waste of time trying to fix it. The only intelligent answer you have is creating your own communities that do not use money and have no leaders and are based upon complete equality and voluntary intelligent cooperation.

[-] 1 points by CancelCurrency (128) 2 years ago

I keep telling it long time already. With abolishing of money all these problems we have will never come back. National debt will be gone, personal debt - gone, money we owe to China - gone, gone gone gone... Plus working hours saved on trips to bank, on counting money, plus, plus, plus... Not original idea thou... Read communist manifesto... Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-!!!!!!

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Correct. You are right... BUT... read what happened AFTER that manifesto was written. The Bolsheviks did the OPPOSITE of what that manifesto preached. They did NOT get rid of money.

Also: by the time the manifesto of Marx and Engels became known to a small group of revolutionary thugs and bandits and swindlers and con men like Trotsky and Lenin... over 80% of Russian peasants already owned their own land, and the archaic system of feudalism was gradually and naturally decaying into a better system WITHOUT a revolution.

The Bolshevik revolution was the WORST thing that could have happened to Russia. The 1st World War was the WORST thing that could have happened to Russia. If that fucking pompous incompetent asshole Tsar Nicholas had not attacked the Austro-Hungarian Empire, sticking his nose into a quarrel which he had no business interfering in: He and his family would not have been killed, and Russian peasants would have learned to intelligently manage their new-found affluent ownership of their own farmlands and they would not have starved and been easy suckers and victims of the propagandists and revolutionaries who were hungrily seeking to grab power in the power vacuum that had been created by the Tsar's abdication.

Marx LEFT OUT the crucial necessity of establishing self-sufficient communities in his manifesto simply because when it was written... most of the people in Russia already LIVED in small self-sufficient communities and small villages and small towns. This is not true anymore! And this is why these two basic things need to be done NOW... TODAY. Because they have never been done before and because they will WORK. Creating self-sufficient communities that do not use money where there are NO leader is the only intelligent ANSWER and SOLUTION to global capitalism.

Fighting over money and power only creates civil war, bloodshed, hatred and violence Fighting over money and power NON-VIOLENTLY is a fucking JOKE. It's pathetic: it's futile Did Kadafi give up his power and wealth without a fight? Did he give up any of his control and power and wealth non-violently? NO. He had to be killed DEAD before he would give up one fucking red cent of his money and one bit of his power... Which is EXACTLY what all of you OW movement people will be forced to do if you want ANY money or power given to you by the top 1%> You will have to kill them DEAD before they give anything up, and that only degrades all of you and dehumanizes all of you into becoming just as evil as the ones you are fighting because all of you still SHARE the love of MONEY, because you are still addicted and brainwashed and programmed into using it.

[-] 1 points by CancelCurrency (128) 2 years ago

I agree with you, turak. Any idea can be hijacked turned into anything: weapon, solution, trap, etc. In case with americans any socialistic idea for them is a scare. But whole world came to the point where the are no further advancement without social revolution. It has to be total. Revolution in minds first of all. Hippies: "By changing ourselves we changed the world". And this movement is much bigger than hippies and global. We need to open our minds otherwise there will be nothing to achieve. Fight for a few bucks is pathetic.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Where do you live? It sounds like you're one of the few people on this thread with some common sense

[-] 1 points by CancelCurrency (128) 2 years ago

And here is some note about me also. :-)))

[-] 1 points by CancelCurrency (128) 2 years ago

Anchorage, Alaska.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Oh my GOD! I live in Montreal Canada.... I was hoping you lived close to me. Let me guess: because living so far up north, because life is so hard; you are forced to cooperate with other people intelligently just in order to be able to survive. Because your life is harder, you don't take the conveniences and luxuries of civilization for granted. The smaller the town or city or community you live in: the more you are on my side because I lived in a small community once and I saw how much better life was inside it than outside in the dehumanized world of money and buying and selling.

I'll bet you understand how good it makes you feel to help other people.

[Deleted]

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

ahhh. You're multi-cultural: you've lived in more than one culture and you've been intelligent enough to COMPARE the different cultures and places you've lived in. PLUS: you came originally from a culture that did not have very much money and there was hardship and poverty. Now you are RICH enough to move anywhere you want to in the world and you're picking the least corrupt culture to live in. Well I've got news for you. You're one of the 1%: sucking off and USING the poverty of people who have less money than you to sneak into their community so they won't notice, and live off you money like a fat cat. All the other people in the world are not as rich as you and don't have the freedom that money gives you to move somewhere else. The culture of money you are bringing into the Ukraine will corrupt this so-far uncorrupted region and turn it just as rotten as America and urbanized life is now. Your Ukraine is not invulnerable from the global capitalistic system of the international banks. Only if your region becomes self-sufficient and stops using money will it survive the coming global disasters that are just over the horizon... and then where will you be with all your money completely worthless? If you use your money to improve the community you live in, and do not hoard it and use it only for your own comfort then you will be a contributor to the health of your community. If you do not you will be just another fat cat hiding their wealth from other people and not giving anything positive to the community you're sucking off. YOU did not work and live in that community. YOU did not create this rare place that isn't as bad as the rest of the world. The world is running out of places to run to and hide. Immigrating to another place is not an option for 6.8 billion people on this planet. Your 'solution' isn't a solution at all, it's just a way of using money to save yourself from the degradation of consumer urbanized capitalism and fuck the 99% who can't afford to rip up their roots because they have family and friends and don't have your money. What you NEED is to become part of your community and make friends in your community and work to crate a self-sufficient community that doesn't need money to be a flourishing place to live in. Your ethic of personal selfishness which you exemplify is NOT the aim of the OW movemen and does not agree with my values. You do NOT know how good it feels to help other people because the only person you've been helping is you. I should have known. Russians are the most corrupt selfish capitalists in the world. The Ukraines should kick all of you Russians out of their country . You should go back to the place where you came from. and try to improve THAT community: the place of your birth instead of sucking off people who are more humane and less corrupt than you Russians. Running away from your own community in search of money is the opposite of what I'm proposing.

[-] 1 points by CancelCurrency (128) 2 years ago

A lot of wrong assumptions, turak. I will answer you last time, because it is probably useless to speak to person who thinks he knows about others everything. What you are saying here is typical brainwash found in the West. 1. You hate russians and prejudice toward them. All that badmouthing comes from your incompetence. Your government need brainwashed population. It easier to use ignorant public. No hard feelings, buddy. It is good for you to hear such things. If you listen and think then you will have hope. 2. Ukrainians are russians. Only ancient. You been told opposite by your government, because they want to divide russians and Ukrainians, so they can built another military base. Ukrainians kicked US solders out recently when they showed up for a visit. 3.You have probably russian ancestors also if you are Caucasian. Check how people populated this planet. 4.People in USSR where richer than in US, and in the rest of the West. Here is few reasons: they all owned apartments they lived in, free and good quality education, medicine etc. USSR had good public transportation. You as Canadian probably know why people like socialist system. Subways in former USSR clean and pretty like museums. Much more freedoms also. Otherwise we would not be able to reform it just by expressing ourselves. Never police brutality. Max sentences 15 years for bad crimes. Government listened to us and adopted changes. I am not rich. I did not go to US to earn money, I spent a lot of my money here. I went to US out of curiosity. I get disappointed about almost everything here. A lot of ugliness. Not civilized country. Just more machines. But still tribal mentality. Europeans brought factories here because WW1 and 2. But machines did not improved morals and culture of cowboys. Made it worse. Corruption, secrecy in the government, bad behavior on streets. War crime after war crime. That is why you all get into situation you are in. Start learning instead of assuming. If you choose to stay uncivilized, then sorry...

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

As proof that I know what kind of person you are, I will ask you one last question: Do you know how good it feels to help someone else? I've never met a Russian who ever helped anyone but himself. You may be an exception but I doubt it very much.

[-] 1 points by CancelCurrency (128) 2 years ago

Sure I like to help others. This is called altruism and it is not based on nationality. And you are judging people their on nationality that is called racism.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

okay: terll me one example in your life when you actually helped someone. Be specific. You say yoi 'like' to help others. You did not say you ever helped anyone in your entire life. Helping others is not altruism, but you don't know that.

Go ahead: Just one example... you don't have any. I know your kind very very well.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

There is a Russian mafia in Los Angeles: it's been there ever since your KGB goons could emigrate from the former USSR. I know because I lived in Los Angeles for 29 years, and I met the Russian scum who weren't part of the Russian Mafia. The Russian immigrants I've known in Los Angeles were the lowest scum on earth. There are Russians here in Montreal here also: I know them personally. I know what kind of scum I'm speaking about. Your fantasy of being superior to the west and then coming here to get rich is no different from any other Russian who wants money. Russians are worse than Koreans: they love money and nothing else. Your socialist system crumbled into total failure and you're still trying to live off the remains of it. What you refuse to face is that immigrating away from where you were born is not an option for 99% of the humans on this earth regardless what nationality they are. My parents were immigrants also. I know immigrants inside and out and I know you. You come to a new land and despoil it and after it is destroyed you run away somewhere else to ruin more land. Immigration to another nation is not how people should live. You didn't like it in Russia. Why didn't you stay in your socialist paradise if it was so good, eh? I'm not saying Americans are any better; just a different brand of greed and a different culture which you never learned to normalize yourself to. You act as if there is no hatred between Ukrainians and Russian. BULLSHIT. The Ukrainians hate the Russians and you know it. If you're rich enough to move to the Ukraine you're richer than 99% of the people who represent the OW movement. You keep on crowing how much better it is to live there so go and live there. I don't like the capitalist system AND the socialist system. Both of them are based upon corrupt Governments and corporations combining and creating a fascist state that oppresses 99% of the people. You think the Russian Govt isn't corrupt? You think the Ukrainian govt isn't corrupt? They're worse than the Americans. They're all corrupt because they use money. Go away: your Russian class snobbery doesn't work anymore because Russia is now just as capitalist as the west... and what's more: its ten times more corrupt. ALL immigrants are rich rotten scum. ALL people who run away from where they live are scum. Only the richest Russians can afford to emigrate from Russia. Only the richest Lebanese can afford to emigrate from Lebanon. Only the richest Ukrainians can afford to emigrate from the Ukraine Only the richest Estonians can afford to emigrate from Estonia. Only the richest Haitians can afford to emigrate from Haiti. Canada is an immigrant nation: populated by immigrants and I've known them all my life: Greeks, Japanese, Finns, English, Scottish, French, Romanians, Chinese, Swedes, Latvians, Lithuanians, Germans, Poles, Estonians, Yugoslavs. Albanians, Trinidadians, Jamaicans, Irish, Czechs, Mexicans, Brazilians, Portuguese, Spanish, Italians, Israeli's, Egyptians, Armenians, Indians form India,... Ive know them all: and every immigrant I met was the lowest scum on earth. Go back to Russia. The Ukrainians will not welcome you if you try to go there and stink up their country. All of you upwardly mobile immigrants looking to IMPROVE yourselves at the cost of others are scum, improve where you live, get rich by becoming swindlers, rackets, secret organizations who get you into a country and help you set up shop there. I know all about immigrants and their little fucking immigrant cultures and how they keep everyone OUT of their little anti-social cliques. I was raised in one, and I know you like a book.

[-] 1 points by CancelCurrency (128) 2 years ago

Turak, may be try to read your own posts. Your statements full of prejudice, contradictions and totally stupid assumptions. Look into your background, may be you are from uneducated one. Then you need to go to some school. Did you graduate from high school or doped out? But I like to give answers to such low grades. I enjoy it because you make me feel smart by your statements. The more hate, prejudice and assumptions you puking here the better I feel. Here is some more contributions to your sickness... Read posts of other people here. I do not see any positive response to you here. Give to me a reference to one if I am wrong. Now I will again repeat to you. Let's see if you will get it this time... May be not... That will make you guess what????.... LOL.... More dumb... Ready?... OK. Here we go... I am not rich... I travelled to a lot of countries out of desire to learn about the world. I did not go there to earn money in any of these countries, including USA. I spent money there. Are you with me?... OK... I will continue slowly, so it will be easier for you to follow me. You are right, there are a lot of scum and immigrant mafia in LA and elsewhere. I hardly met any russians in LA. Majority of immigrants there are jewish and muslims from former USSR, who speak Russian, but that does not make them russians. I would guess they behave in such way because that is who they are or because that is how they show their respect to society around them. They mostly would call blacks by "n" word. That is because they do not buy any excuses for bad reputation of any race. But it is them, not me. I understand hard times and bad inheritance. I just laugh when I see stupid person. Because he can't hurt me. His stupidity hurts him. Here is the last thing... Open Google and read before you make statements. You will find there that Ukrainians are russians. Ancient Russia called Kiev's Rus. Capital city was Kiev. How there would be a hate? Or you assume one is hateful to himself? Then you need to go to doctor. I like it in Russia and Ukraine. But one does not have to spend all the time in the place he likes. He will have no knowledge about world around him. It is good to go and see the other countries. You can call our reforms a "collapse", "crumble" or what ever you want, but economies are good in former USSR, just start operating a little different. More local planning, more authority on states level. Less centralization. That is all. Russian ex-president is former KGB boss, but he is good, smart and very respectful and respected by russians, ukrainians and other nations. Watch, russians will elect him again soon. Read better news buddy. I am not running away from anybody or anything. I did not intend to stay in the USA either. Why would I? I move around the world not because I had any problems but rather because I do not. I earned money in Moscow and in Ukraine. Again, I am not rich, but socialist system in those countries gives to me all these possibilities not to be rich and have everything. Are all people in Canada that dumb? I thought they are better educated then americans... :-)))))

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

The fact is you are a bystander. You are not a member of the OW movement. You are a disinterested observer. You think your so-called socialist 'system' is superior to the western systems and so you look down upon others because of it. Every stupid ass on this forum has some reason to look down upon others, some excuse to imagine himself 'superior'. You are only interested in yourself. As such you are an anti-social person who is not willing to create a community that does not use money. You're an immigrant. In case you don't know: the Ukrainian language is not Russian. It is an ethnic language separate from your language. Go ahead. Move to Ukraine... see how the Ukrainians are like, see if they tolerate Russians living in their midst. Out for yourself and nobody else: like all the other scum. Only interested in your own 'personal concerns'.... Yes. I know your kind very well. Goodbye

[-] 1 points by CancelCurrency (128) 2 years ago

Did you say this? Or somebody else did?

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

I said it: why?

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

I asked you if you had ever helped anyone but yourself in your life and suddenly you go SIILENT and change the subject? Get lost you scumbag.

[-] 1 points by CancelCurrency (128) 2 years ago

Scumbag that is your name. That is the majority opinion here. LOL.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Thank you for exposing yourself. You scum always expose yourselves: you think you're being clever by creating a pack of lies, and then you ruin your pack of invented fiction every time and show your true colors. I asked you if you had ever HELPED ANOTHER HUMAN BEING IN YOUR LIFE.... at first you went SILENT!... no response for days... Now you respond with HATE and VENOM.... You HATE decent good people. You cannot HIDE your filthy hate, it leaks out of you like pus from a gangrenous wound. Once again: Thank you for exposing what you really are. You have been identified and tagged and labeled. No decent human being on this forum will have anything to do with you.

[-] 1 points by CancelCurrency (128) 2 years ago

Do not lie, nigga! Swedish people will newer speak racist filth like you do. Swedes are the least racist nation on this planet. If you would be from there you would know who Raoul Wallenberg was and what he accomplished. But you do not know it because you are liar. So stick your birth certificate into your black ass. I never met racist white person in Sweden. So go and fuck yourself!

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Wrong Swedes are the biggest racists on earth. They kicked all the immigrants who fled to their stinking rich country out after WW2. I know. My family was one of the families who couldn't get any work to support themselves because the Swedes didn't want any ethnic or racial people not of their own ethnic nationality living in their pure white sterile dead country. Sweden has always had and continues to have the most racist immigration policy in Europe: and THAT is saying something because Europeans are the biggest fucking racists on earth. My family emigrated from Sweden to Canada when I was 2 years old.

Every imaginary lie you have tried to invent in order to deny the truth I tell you is now being proven WRONG. Also Swedes especially hate Russians: they have a deep scorn for them for good reason. You know that very well. Or maybe you didn't. Now you do.

[-] 1 points by CancelCurrency (128) 2 years ago

Bye, nigga!

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

I'm white. I was born in Stockholm on Aug 26th 1948. Thank you for exposing yourself as a congenital liar. All congenital liars are convinced that everybody else is also a congenital liar. Thank you! For exposing yourself and showing everyone that everything you posted here was a lie. I am VERY GOOD at exposing scum like you.

You don't believe I'm white? Come visit me in Montreal and meet me in person.and I'll show you my birth certificate. Filth like you should be gotten rid of. You stink up the internet with your lies.

[-] 1 points by tympan55 (124) 2 years ago

Hey stupid, here's something you said last week.

Thank you for exposing yourself as a congenital liar. All congenital liars are convinced that everybody else is also a congenital liar.

Using your own infallible logic, doesn't that make you a congenital liar?

[-] 1 points by laguy (110) 2 years ago

Everyone, please do not waste time with people like turak, we have a constructive forum where we discuss real life issues and solutions, not Utopian fantasies: http://www.themultitude.org/

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

you've already been tagged as a troll: asshole. All of your negative vibes are being NULLIFIED on this forum by ME. Now get lost loser.

[-] 1 points by laguy (110) 2 years ago

hugs and kisses will not put food on the table.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

wrong: hugs and kisses will put so much good ENERGY into the people of my exclusive self-sufficient community that they will barely need to eat at all because their hearts will be filled with happiness: not emptiness, and they will feel no inner emptiness inside them, gnawing at them to fill themselves with rotten shit. You see, you ignorant fool: you have never lived in a community that is based upon cooperation and equality; trying to describe what it will be like is like trying to describe color to a person who was born BLIND.

You think you need to eat tons of shit every day, and drink tons of crap every day in order to LIVE. That is your CONSUMER RELIGION. That is the RELIGION of the people who SELL you their shit so they can get RICH off you. You need less than 1/10th of what you eat now in order to have ALL THE ENERGY YOU NEED TO LIVE A HEALTHY LIFE.

The reason all of you are FAT and have huge diseased bloated bellies and rotten colons filled with fecal matter which will give you cancer of the colon is because all of you eat 10times more than you NEED to live. You're ADDICTED to CONSUMING because inside you is an unhappy EMPTINESS that is telling you this is not the way you should live.

You have been sold a bill of goods: You have been sold on the idea that you MUST shop and buy and consume... That is the basic fallacy of the UNSPOKEN BELIEF and UNSPOKEN religion which you share with all the other brainwashed zombies.

And you are not given any rational REASON for this except SELFISHNESS and GREED... You KNOW they're screwing you! You KNOW what they sell you is not good for you! Yet you still BUY their shit and allow yourselves to become fat and lazy and ADDICTED to the shit they sell you, until you are HOOKED: Until you're just another FISH they've HOOKED and addicted to their products. So they can get RICHER and you get POORER: and none of you will ADMIT this to yourselves or to anyone else: BEcause IF YOU DID... then all of your fucking EGO shit act and fakery of pretending that you are 'superior' because you can use money to buy shit with would CRASH.

You're a brainwashed ANIMAL. Studies show that people who eat alone eat 15% less than when eating with another person .When you eat with TWO people you eat 20% MORE than you eat if you were alone. When you eat with three or more people you eat 30% more than if you ate alone

The BASIS of your entire culture is a FALLACY. GLUTTONY and feasting like pigs is your fucking RELIGION. STUFFING YOUR FUCKING MOUTHS is your fucking oral-addiction. Having a tit stuck in front of your face when you were a baby is HOW you were programmed to become orally addicted to sedatives being stuffed into your mouth to put you to SLEEP.

[-] 1 points by laguy (110) 2 years ago

fyi I eat mostly raw and plant food, nothing that comes in a bottle or package and have very little fat. so your rant does not apply to me personally, although it may apply to most people in the industrialized and increasingly in less industrialized countries. we need real solutions, not fairy tales. yes we need more love, but try and understand why there is more nuclear weapons pointing at each other that could destroy the earth many times over. and people that you are ranting against are victims, they need to be educated and informed, they don't deserve to be vilified, if you do that, you loose the audience

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Totally WRONG: you approach does nothing but coddle them. The upper half of the human species called affluent consumers are not 'victims' you ass: they are the PERPETRATORS of mass destruction because they are the ENGINE of greed and gluttony which the 1% get rich off and feed off. What affluent consumers: 1 billion fat spoiled asses need is a swift kick up their spoiled asses: not soft-selling them shit. They have been SOLD and SOLD and bullshitted all their spoiled rotten LIVES... Now a few of them...! less than 1 fucking% of the American middle-class!! Have slowly woken up!.... after the fact! YEARS LATER!... that they've been robbed? What about the other 20 million middle-class families thatl ost their homes: EH? Do you see them marching on Wall street? NO! They're all staying away AFRAID! Terrorized by their police state, letting things get worse without even a whimper! And you expect these irate wimps, these 'peaceful' protesters to have any effect on the global evil of nuclear warheads?? If their slogan had been 'burn Wall Street to the GROUND: And if they had indeed burnt wall Street to the ground.... THEN there might have been some positive result from this weak joke of an uprising. You actually believe in non-violence as a way to dislodge the ruling class of the world!? You're living in a dream of affluence. IF after 100% of the middle-class lose ALL their affluent homes and are forced into poverty and begin organizing SERIOUSLY against the 1%... then you might have a class war that will do something. But that will never happen because the middle class of America SHARE the same EXACT values of greed and selfishness that the top 1% have. They ALL want MONEY just as much as the greediest motherfuckers on earth do. They're all just as greedy and selfish and stupid and spoiled as the top 1% is. And fighting over that money will get them NOTHING but the realization that living without money is a far better way to live. But even THEN they'll be too stupid to realize it and they will throw away their new lifestyles of brotherhood and hardship and scramble for every fucking dollar they can until they are all systematically crushed into slavery and join the REST of the billions of poor suckers who worship money and work for their masters in factories.

[-] 1 points by laguy (110) 2 years ago

turak, I agree with many of ur points, like ur spirit to change the world for the better and your acknowledgment that it is a dog eat dog world. But one person cannot change the world, that is why we need movements. While you are active here, if you have time, please visit: http://www.themultitude.org/ and perhaps participate in some of the work we are doing, to change the system.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You're missing my point. FUCK the system, Fuck their plastic toys and their Walmarts. FUCK the banks, FUCK the wage slave jobs: create your own system, create your own self-sufficient communities, stop wasting your time trying to fight a mechanized global system that can't be fixed PERIOD. Get this through you head: working inside the system only corrupts you into becoming just as bad as they are.

BUT!... and this is why all of you are wasting your time and your lives> all the spoiled rich of American middle-class are WEDDED to ALL STREET they WANT their 401K's, they DEPEND on them to LIVE. They WANT their Walmart toys, they're not willing to give ANYTHING up and they're not willing to change a fucking thing. They're just as bad as all the 'special' interests. They are wage slaves working for masters and their masters use them AS THEY PLEASE and they say 'yes SIR!" and will do ANYTHING to get a fucking job... And what for? for MONEY. MONEY MONEY. Any ethics or morals in getting a job working in a nuclear bomb factory? Do Americans see anything wrong in having a nice cushy job in the Military Industrial Complex? NO! They don't give a fuck WHAT they do as long as they get MONEY for it.

The middle-classes of the world will NEVER have any impact on the top 1% because all of them like you are running dogs of Imperialist monkeys who own you and are now taking your homes. Unless the middle-class joins forces with the REAL poor of the world: unless they join themselves to the factory wage slaves of Argentina and China and Mexico: they will be ground into DUST easily and they will disappear without even a whimper just as they did in Nazi Germany. The only difference is that when Hitler put the middle class to WORK: he gave them a decent living wage and decent housing. That will not happen here.

Creating your own self-sufficient community SOLVES ALL YOUR FUCKING PROBLEMS you dunderhead. That means you do the OPPOSITE of working in the system: you live OUTSIDE the system and let the system go to hell. I'm sick and tired of all of imbeciles deaf and dumb to common sense still whining about you fucking system. If you want to fight a rotten system that can't be fixed then don't waste my time with your bullshit

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You're missing my point. FUCK the system, Fuck their plastic toys and their Walmarts. FUCK the banks, FUCK the wage slave jobs: create your own system, create your own self-sufficient communities, stop wasting your time trying to fight a mechanized global system that can't be fixed PERIOD. Get this through you head: working inside the system only corrupts you into becoming just as bad as they are.

BUT!... and this is why all of you are wasting your time and your lives> all the spoiled rich of American middle-class are WEDDED to ALL STREET they WANT their 401K's, they DEPEND on them to LIVE. They WANT their Walmart toys, they're not willing to give ANYTHING up and they're not willing to change a fucking thing. They're just as bad as all the 'special' interests. They are wage slaves working for masters and their masters use them AS THEY PLEASE and they say 'yes SIR!" and will do ANYTHING to get a fucking job... And what for? for MONEY. MONEY MONEY. Any ethics or morals in getting a job working in a nuclear bomb factory? Do Americans see anything wrong in having a nice cushy job in the Military Industrial Complex? NO! They don't give a fuck WHAT they do as long as they get MONEY for it.

The middle-classes of the world will NEVER have any impact on the top 1% because all of them like you are running dogs of Imperialist monkeys who own you and are now taking your homes. Unless the middle-class joins forces with the REAL poor of the world: unless they join themselves to the factory wage slaves of Argentina and China and Mexico: they will be ground into DUST easily and they will disappear without even a whimper just as they did in Nazi Germany. The only difference is that when Hitler put the middle class to WORK: he gave them a decent living wage and decent housing. That will not happen here.

Creating your own self-sufficient community SOLVES ALL YOUR FUCKING PROBLEMS you dunderhead. That means you do the OPPOSITE of working in the system: you live OUTSIDE the system and let the system go to hell. I'm sick and tired of all of imbeciles deaf and dumb to common sense still whining about you fucking system. If you want to fight a rotten system that can't be fixed then don't waste my time with your bullshit

[-] 1 points by laguy (110) 2 years ago

is it ok to ask what is your age range, teens, 20's, 30's? and how many countries have you been to? you cannot suggest solution for humanity and the world without sufficiently knowing the planet, its people and its systems. I agree that it is screwed up, but being angry and calling people names does not solve worlds problems, I am sorry to say. You have energy, put them to good use. sorry to have intruded in your thread. good luck in changing the world by just living in self-sufficient communes.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

First: on the last post I did not call ANYONE a name: but I will on this post... You stupid, stupid, stupid STUPID fucking IDIOT: am NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT trying to change the world... you STUPID FUCKING DOLT

YOU ARE

YOU are trying to change the entire fucking world: NOT ME

GET THAT THROUGH YOUR FUCKING STUPID BRAIN

I am NOT trying to 'solve the world's problems' you fucking IMBECILE

YOU ARE

and you will FAIL

Because NO one person can solve the problems of 6.8 BILLION idiots who are just as fucking STUPID as YOU are.

By me living in a small self-sufficient community along with other intelligent mature adults who are fucking STUPID IDIOTS like you are.... I don't have any need to DEAL with all of you fucking STUPID ASSES anymore because I will not be AFFECTED by any of your STUPID destructive efforts to destroy your own eco-systems because I will be managing my OWN community so it supports US and we support the LAND we live on. Which none of you DO because all of you are so fucking STUPID and asinine: that none of you want to ADMIT that living in a community that is self-sufficient SOLVES YOUR PERSONAL LIFE PROBLEMS

Only fucking insane assholes like YOU believe they can 'solve the world's problems'. You want to solve China's problems? jackass? Go over to China and tell them 2 BILLION Chinese they're doing everything wrong and see how long you stay out of JAIL. Go to Saudi Arabia and tell theme how they're doing it all wrong and see how long you still have a HEAD: you fucking JACKASS.

The only problems you are designed to solve are your OWN problems: you fucking twit: and you don't want to even FACE or ADMIT your own problems: That is YOUR fucking problem> NOT MINE. Now get the fuck LOST and go fucking 'solve the world's problems' and don't fucking come on this thread again. Idiots like you need to be wiped off this planet, you're WAY too fucking stupid to even deserve to EXIST. How you ever managed to learn how to tie your own shoelaces is a fucking MIRACLE.

[-] 1 points by laguy (110) 2 years ago

so now we have it, a brain damaged kid who thinks he knows what he is doing and everyone else is good for nothing.

to avoid people like these who contribute nothing and is glad that this site tolerates people like these please visit: http://www.themultitude.org/ where people like him will be banned in a mili second.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

you are a fucking TROLL: I am 64 years old and I know what I speak of when I call you trolls STUPID IMBECILES.

I told you to not come on this thread again asshole. This thread is MY thread and MY issue and MY explanation of how to solve people's problems with the top 1%

You go back to your fucking troll stations where all you mindless brainless jackasses can babble together like the bunch of brainless imbeciles you are and GET OFF MY THREAD: understand?

[-] 1 points by laguy (110) 2 years ago

get it through your thick head, old man, you have lost it. You don't own this or any other thread, me or anyone else will come and comment as we please, ban me if you can, understand?

you know nothing about anything to tell people about anything. and oh please don't make us laugh.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You're a TROLL: you have been IDENTIFIED. No decent person will have anything to do with you. Now you can leave knowing that we know what you are. This thread is a CONSTRUCTIVE thread: not for troll assholes like you, now get lost.

[-] 1 points by lonespectator (106) 2 years ago

Turak may be the dumbest person in the movement. This post would be hysterical, except I think he's serious. "ltes base an economy on hugs and kisses.. You should have gotten those from your Mommie LOl Please everyone..FOCUS...We started the "Occupy the White House" on nov 6th, but were interfered with a mis-guided Obama - backed DNC funded protest about something called "Keystone". I think Turak was there with a hundred or so of his "Hugs and kisses" brigade holding hands...OWH was about letting the President and Congress know that he is a guest in Our House..The White House is the peoples house. This Movement OWh must move forward, but "secret " OWS General Assembly meetings with Obama supporters in the DNC have all but hyjacked the "Occupy the White House" movement. DOn't let this happen anymore. I was there in Washington in Liberty Park and at the fence and overheard people laughing about this.. Don't be fooled..We must confront the GA OWS and get them back on track with the OWh final step Now!! Peace to All!!

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

It is your entire movement that is the dumbest thing in the world: years after you were robbed,: you want the money back?? When the entire status quo is against you? And you think your whining about money and living like homeless bums on the street will do anything positive? The only positive things you have achieved is unconsciously, blindly, coming together at grass roots levels and organizing yourselves into small communities that don't have any leaders where all of you are equal to each other. THAT is you acheivement. But it is doomed to be turned into a farce because you're not planning it for the long haul. How long are you going to sleep on the street? Until the snow comes? THEN WHAT? You've wasted all your energy creating a community that will DISSOLVE because you can't live the rest of your life camping out on the street downtown. NOW... if you had done the exact same thing somewhere else! If you had organized yourselves as equals with no leaders as far away from Wall Street as possible! Then you would have had something that you could build upon and make it LAST. A community of equals with no leaders has NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE. All you're missing is the correct intelligent goal to stop using money and become self-sufficient as a community: and all your PERSONAL problems are SOLVED, and what is best: you don't need to fight ANYBODY to do this successfully. Your basic motive of envy and greed fighting over money is what will destroy your own movement. FUCK the money. FUCK the 1% FUCK the establishment. Wake up and look at hat is happening! You're creating your own cooperative communities and helping each other and you don't NEED the money they robbed you of to do it! Hell, you can start your own credit union and not use the big banks! You want to get rid of the Federal Reserve? Stop using money and they are DEAD. You want to stop WalMart? Don't buy anything from WalMArt: boycott it, and WalMart will DIE so fast you will be amazed. Create your own communities without using money and all your goals will be reached. Keep on fighting the richest most arrogant powerful assholes on earth for money and your whole movement will FAIL and you will have civil war, hatred, class warfare, chaos and bloodshed.

[Deleted]

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

First I am not in your movement. Second I'm a Canadian and don't live in our fucked-up country. Third: if you seriously want to effect change in your country then your movement should be named: "BURN WALLSTREET TO THE GROUND" not 'occupy' it... you fucking bunch of wimps. Fourth: until you idiots wake up to what really matters: you will waste your lives wrangling over money.

What you do not understand is that your entire MOVEMENT is dumb. It is the dumbest movement that was ever invented by a bunch of babies crying over being LEGALLY robbed by the top 1%.

Where were all of you when the robbery was happening eh? Where were all of you when they robbed you eh? You start fucking complaining YEARS! after it happened to you?? And you expect anyone to listen to you? You're an embarrassment to the whole world. Billions of people are poorer than you are and they are not protesting their poverty, expecting the system to save them from themselves. Suck it up and do something constructive for a change like working to found your own communities and stop sleep on the streets like a bunch of homeless bums. Organize yourselves first... FIRST you idiots before you come out yammering in a mindless mob. Not after. Mobs can't be organized intelligently and neither will your movement be organized intelligently. Millions of selfish people: EACH! with their own fucking 'special' agenda...! EACH arguing with the others!... EACH ONE! disagreeing with the others about everything! You call that an organized movement? It's a CIRCUS.

[-] 1 points by lonespectator (106) 2 years ago

So I guess your Stupid comments were just a poor attempt at sarcasm? Hope your Hugs and kisses movement works for you in Canada where you belong. Lol!!!

[-] 1 points by Harper (13) 2 years ago

"When the accumulation of wealth is no longer of high social importance, there will be great changes in the code of morals. We shall be able to rid ourselves of many of the pseudo-moral principles which have hag-ridden us for two hundred years, by which we have exalted some of the most distasteful of human qualities into the position of the highest virtues. We shall be able to afford to dare to assess the money-motive at its true value.

The love of money as a possession — as distinguished from the love of money as a means to the enjoyments and realities of life — will be recognised for what it is, a somewhat disgusting morbidity, one of those semi-criminal, semi-pathological propensities which one hands over with a shudder to the specialists in mental disease. ... But beware! The time for all this is not yet. For at least another hundred years we must pretend to ourselves and to everyone that fair is foul and foul is fair; for foul is useful and fair is not. Avarice and usury and precaution must be our gods for a little longer still. For only they can lead us out of the tunnel of economic necessity into daylight. "

--John Maynard Keynes, 1930

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

total bullshit. Take your 100 years and stick them up your ass. Your post exposes the truth: John Maynard Keynes: the most famous economist in history admits the complete corruption and evil of the system he devised...

And then begs people not to throw it out too soon? Does he give any reason for not throwing it out? NO. Does he explain why people must endure this crapo system any longer? NO. Does he give ANY explanation as to why it should not be junked now? NO. NO. NO. NO.

And YOU: you fucking brainless donkey, are too fucking stupid to even understand that Keynes has hung himself by his own words? And YOU fucking conforming sheep are willing to follow his 'suggestion' as if it were a fucking religious decree brought down from God almighty himself?
You fucking stinking idiots: you're exposing your idiocy bare-assed to everyone who reads your post, and you don't even realize how bare-assed your irrational you are.

[-] 1 points by highguy22 (3) 2 years ago

Its a MONETARY economy, not a MONEY economy. Why should i trust you to overthrow MY government when you don't even use correct grammar. And also paying for something in hugs and kisses? Really. How would i pay for my house? Here's two hundred and fifty thousand hugs and kisses. The fact that me, or anyone for that matter, would support this logic is beyond idiotic. If you hate America so much, move to a small village in Africa where people don't use currency. Move to a village, or country for that matter, where they barter for goods. But don't overthrow my beautiful country because you think hugs and kisses would be a good monetary system.

[-] 1 points by highguy22 (3) 2 years ago

Its a MONETARY economy, not a MONEY economy. Why should i trust you to overthrow MY government when you don't even use correct grammar. And also paying for something in hugs and kisses? Really. How would i pay for my house? Here's two hundred and fifty thousand hugs and kisses. The fact that me, or anyone for that matter, would support this logic is beyond idiotic. If you hate America so much, move to a small village in Africa where people don't use currency. Move to a village, or country for that matter, where they barter for goods. But don't overthrow my beautiful country because you think hugs and kisses would be a good monetary system.

[-] 1 points by highguy22 (3) 2 years ago

Its a MONETARY economy, not a MONEY economy. Why should i trust you to overthrow MY government when you don't even use correct grammar. And also paying for something in hugs and kisses? Really. How would i pay for my house? Here's two hundred and fifty thousand hugs and kisses. The fact that me, or anyone for that matter, would support this logic is beyond idiotic. If you hate America so much, move to a small village in Africa where people don't use currency. Move to a village, or country for that matter, where they barter for goods. But don't overthrow my beautiful country because you think hugs and kisses would be a good monetary system.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

First: creating a successful self-sufficient community that does not use money does not and cannot threaten your fucking corrupt Govt. You're over-reacting: like all jerks who are spoiled fat lazy and smug and arrogant and addicted to material possessions and ease: you're the middle-class that is being systematially wiped out: Over 20 million middle-class families have lost their homes and are now in their cars or living with their mommies and you don't give a fuck and you are still too arrogant, selfish and smug to realize that YOU'RE NEXT... If you want to direct your fear intelligently: direct it to the banks and insurance corporations o America who are repossessing your homes: not me. That's what the OW movement is doing. THEY found out who really owns and controls your fucking corrupt bought-and-paid-for American Govt ... and it sure as hell isn't me or any self-sufficient community that does not use money. Now fuck off. Imbeciles like you are the reason your country is going down the drain.

[-] 1 points by OLLAG (84) 2 years ago

lets be friends! Yes great! Lets starve to death the 1%!! Yes friends. Sounds like the start of a communism! Killing people!? yep communism.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Wrong. Self-sufficient communities do not starve: they keep to themselves and let the rest of you sheep starve. They have nothing to do with your wrangling over money or anything to do with your 1% who have most of the money in ht eworld and will not give you one cent of it back. Self-sufficient communities that do not use money are a NEW kind of social way of life that solves every problem which you capitalists killing each other over money are beset with.

[-] 1 points by OLLAG (84) 2 years ago

name one community who has EVER been close to what you say.

[-] 1 points by clouds (1) 2 years ago

you wouldn't give your children a free game if your earth was your father yous sick disgusting rotten greedy people! You all Caused this........

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Children create their own games naturally: Children like to play outside without being given plastic toys. Children like to exerise their healthy young bodies outdoors because that is how they were designed to live. The only time you will ever see children that are happy and heal;thy and smiling and giggling is when they are outside playing their own games without any plastic toys.

Apparently your parents never let you play outside: as did millions of other idiots who scarred and twisted and stunted and damaged their children for LIFE never allowing them any freedom to create their own happiness.

[-] 1 points by screwtheman (122) 2 years ago

How do I pay the power company to keep my lights on?

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

If you create a self-sufficient community: you stop living inside the mass-manufactured womb you're living inside now and you create a new environment for yourself and the people you are living with. Whether you need electricity or not is up to you and to be decided in the planning stages of the formation of your self-sufficient community. If you DO decide you want electricity: they you will have to provide it yourself without sucking on any outside grid outside your community. This has been done thousands of different ways by many people ans by many communities all over the world already.

But what you must understand before you create a self-sufficient community is that nobody will do anything for you. Anything you want: you will have to do yourself. Anything you want you will have to create yourself. Since you do not know how to create or do anything: this lets you out of the entire project: so go back to your boob tube and veg out: zombie.

[-] 1 points by screwtheman (122) 2 years ago

So you want us to go back in time and become cavemen?

I think you should get off your computer and the internet "being that you didn't make the computer and all the parts and the infrastructure of the internet" and go get a job.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You are looking at it ass-backwards: the only alternative to the present that you see is the PAST. I'm looking to the FUTURE which has not been created yet. And get off this thread: you're a fucking troll and you contribute MINUS ZERO to your society.

[-] 1 points by charlieb1000 (5) 2 years ago

i applaud ths love-driven msg bt i'll take the middle road: "caring capitalism" cos you can't develop anti-cancer drugs on kisses (ok, ok with more love around cancer rates may fall) etc. check out these 7 questions & if you answer yes to most of them, you shd check out the website tocamu.com which makes a lot of sense to me. uniting behind a new symbol like they did in the vietnam war behing the peace sign...

http://www.tocamu.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Questions.png

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

capitalist consumer society CREATES cancer. The entire culture of modern greed is a CANCER: unless you realize that you will die of it.

[-] 1 points by Idaltu (662) 2 years ago

I'm not sure there is actually any money as in terms of something of value. All of it is just blips on a computer screen in the form of numbers. Banks seem to have the power to create those blips with nothing backing them up...a sort of smoke and mirrors monetary system. Very strange.

[-] 1 points by nickhowdy (1104) 2 years ago

Hey I'm with you..But I don't want the 1% to die and maybe I can't deal with getting hugs and kisses as a means of transaction (I'm slightly paranoid of disease). The current system of monetarism is collapsing in on itself, you just have to wait..People will come back to their senses and realize that family and friends....basically, people are the most important thing..

I realize what the elite want to do...You, I and this OWS movement must fight these people...It's not a matter of who has more money or that it needs to be redistributed.(It already has been redistributed to the top). It's about how a certain sector of that 1% "made" their money while destroying the economy at the same time.

Just wait...Rome is burning as our "leaders" play violin...When it all falls apart, we'll have to get into a new more localized sort of economy.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Yeah, sure: just sit on your ass: do nothing, and everything will turn out fine. That's how you got robbed of trillions of dollars idiot. The OW movement is TL2: too little, too late. Where were they and you when the robbery was going on, eh? I'll tell you where you were: you were sitting on your ass doing nothing in front of your computer and your TV.

[-] 1 points by nickhowdy (1104) 2 years ago

What the fuck are you doing besides bitching? Hey we all got conned..We all thought that by contributing to our 401K's we were doing the right fucking thing..Surprise.

I was writing about it after it happened and you know what, it takes a long time for people to be convinced that what they "believed" in was BS. People looked at you and me like we were fucking nuts for telling them the've been conned, ripped off, fucked over..

Yea it's all a little too late. You betcha. Are you going to fight or fucking bitch..Let me know.

Nothing will turn out "fine" ..Your going to die motherfucker and so will I.. What we do in between is what counts...Now I said I was with you and I'm getting pretty fucking old myself and I've got real important people with a possible future to take care of..Now tell me what you want to fucking do!

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You're getting me mixed up with the OW movement. This thread began with me telling the OW movement that they were missing the point wrangling about money. The answer to global capitalism is to create your own self-sufficient community that does not use money. Read my posts and you will understand what I am saying.

[-] 1 points by nickhowdy (1104) 2 years ago

Look you are mixed up with this movement..You're on this forum. What I'm saying to you is this..people live in this fucked up reality that's been presented to them from birth...It's going to take a while to change..People are just so conditioned...

You won't have to worry so much about people making the right decision..They won't have to..Nature, God, whatever you want to call it is going to perform it's own little balancing act..I don't know if you sense that..

But I feel this at the top of my throat and the elites running away with whatever they can is a confirmation of my intuitive sense that we are in bigger trouble than just the USA falling off the cliff...From my perspective, it's a shame, but the story is bigger than that..

There is something very wrong...People are running from a danger yet unseen and the people who can, are taking the most they can and don't seem to care what others think and there is no justice..Our government is allowing it.

All this leads me to believe there is more to this than meets the eye..Like I said, people may not have a choice but to do what you propose, without electricity, people will have little choice.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You're looking at it from the wrong perspective. Living without electricity is a good thing. Not a bad thing. Did you know that there is a moratorium on building more hydro-electric dams in the USA? The dams are silting up. they will soon be useless. Egypt's entire farming economy was destroyed by the Aswan dam and the only answer to this economic catastrophe is taking that dam DOWN. The cultural idea that the less you do, the more you sit on your ass the more 'superior' you are is FINISHED. The idea that the more you buy, the more money you spend the more you consume makes you 'superior' is FINISHED. Rather than worry about what 6.8 billion freaked out apes are doing: I would suggest to you that creating your own self-sufficient community NOW... before the shit hits the fan is the most intelligent thing you can do. If you sit around and wait until it all crashes you will look back and kick yourself for not doing it NOW..

[-] 1 points by nickhowdy (1104) 2 years ago

Did not say losing electricity would be a bad thing, I said "people would have little choice'"...The lack of electricity would bring benefits and problems..Lot's of problems and death..

I started 2yrs ago with being more self-sufficient and getting people together in what I call the Emergency Preparedness Meeting. It's tough.

I don't know if you are married, but between my wife and I we are living on two different worlds..She a suburbanite try to figure out how to con her husband into getting a pool in the backyard..and me, I just want her and my boy...I'm a simple man, with simple needs in a complex situation and world...

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

If you're not on the same page with your wife: you already have a huge insurmountable problem. If married couples can't agree on how they want to live: what hope is there for you to cooperate with anyone else? If you and your wife can't see eye-to-eye: then you're fucked. What do stand for? Allowing women to rule the roost is the reason all North American males are pussy-whipped sheep. Divorce her and get custody of your child and THEN you can work on creating a community your child will want to live in. Otherwise you're compromising your morals and ethics and you can't look yourself in the mirror.

[-] 1 points by nickhowdy (1104) 2 years ago

Nah..I'll keep her...She's a good person..We see eye to eye on plenty of things...No one really rules the roost, and in marriage, you better be willing to compromise and my son deserves a mom also..

Aside from that, I took a vow years ago, that I'd never walk away from her...If I have to die to keep that promise, I will.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You caving in to her is not a compromise: it's giving up all your own values and ethics. Either you have the courage of your convictions or you don't. The bondage of marriage is a farce. The history of the tradition of marriage comes from the bond slave. Slaves were once forced to swear oaths of allegiance and obedience to their masters. The Christian church took this neat idea of getting their slaves to enslave themselves and created their own custom of bond-slavery. A piece of paper does not mean shit.

Only if two people agree to commit to each other as equals does the bond of matrimony BARELY work. You were never designed to have only one female in your life: you were designed to have TWO girls to love at all times... and they are designed to have TWO boys to love also. This only works in a close-knit community of 24 or 36 adults where the entire community is held together in a CIRCLE... by all 36 members holding each others hands; boy-girl-boy-girl: in a ring of connected hands so every boy is holding the hands of two girls and every girl is holding the hands of two boys. Only when you live inside this kind of community will you ever understand that LOVE is not exclusive. Only when you SHARE your love and closeness with 35 other adults in a hand-held ring of sacred togetherness will you realize that loving only one human adult is a travesty of human kindness. This is why I am founding and organizing self-sufficient communities: to teach you this new way to live: to teach you there is another way to live that is a thousand times better than how you are living now.

[-] 1 points by nickhowdy (1104) 2 years ago

You'll have to acknowledge that the probability of disease is less, being with one person. No matter how good your relationships are, one wife or husband is enough, at least for me..

[-] 1 points by nickhowdy (1104) 2 years ago

@turak Love is pretty complicated...and I haven't been able to ask an amoeba what turns them on. Overpopulation happens with the availability of food, clean water, and advances in medical care..In these places infant survival rates are higher.

About Eve...Men always fucking blame it on the women..Nuff said...They have taken enough shit forever...Give it a break.

People must learn about the finite nature of where they live and to respect that...Maybe then people would think and "pull out" a bit more..

BTW..I'm having sex with my wife right now, the keyboard is on her left cheek and an ashtray on the right and yes as you could guess I manage to be smoking at the same time..I hope you got the visual..

If you think sex is so disgusting...Don't bring it up to me, talk to the a$$hole whole invented it. It was obviously an engineering issue..A fun house right next to a sewage facility..WTF.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Normal mammals fuck only once a year and with only one mate. The human species is an over sexed bunch of sex-crazed rabbit who fuck almost every night. Yu want to give the earth a break from over[population? Then stop fucking all the time for the purpose of SELF-GRATIFICATION. Procreation and sex was not designed to make you feel 'good' every night in secret. The reason the first sin of the first human was the carnal knowledge of eating a round apple was because Adam became sexually aroused by the round apples of Eve's sexy buttocks and breasts. The earth is a finite planet. There are too many naked apes on this plant and we are destroying the entire earth by overpopulation.

By creating your own self0-sufficient community and living INSIDE your community without expanding outwards and trying to 'colonize' other people's land: you will be FORCED into dealing with your own overpopulation and sexual lust and be FORCED into curtailing your addiction to self-gratification every night. Sex was not invented for your self-gratification you stupid moron. It was invented so living organisms could pass on their experience and knowledge to a new generation of living creatures who EVOLVED into more intelligent creatures: thus creating the human species. Unfortunately, ever since Adam and Eve refused to stop fucking like rabbits, they were cast out of the Garden of Eden where all living creatures lived in harmony with each other because they did not fuck every night like a bunch of sinful evil apes. Love is not sex. Get this through your head. If love is sex: then you would be fucking your children every night also, and I hope that you are not doing this, while millions of parents ARE doing it behind closed doors, and are never brought to justice and never jailed and punished for their horrible crimes which they commit against their own children. Without the sexual pornographic culture you were raised in that glorifies SEX as an advertising tool to get you to buy mass manufactured shit you don't need and is bad for you: there wouldn't be the hidden culture of child abuse which exists all over the world.

Using sex for self-gratification is obscene and dirty and it destroys self-respect and all love between married couple. It poisons your entire soul and it ADDICTS you to self-gratification, util you have no morals and no ethics and no human values left except the stinking ethic of selfish self-gratification. Living without fucking every night DOES NOT TAKE VERY MUCH SELF_DISCIPLINE. All it takes is the honest recognition and admission that it is a DIRTY FILTHY practice: which is why it is only done at night behind closed doors in SECRET so nobody can see you doing it. If you started fucking your wife in public: your face would be BURNING IN SHAME as bystanders stare at your filthy animal lust.

[-] 1 points by tympan55 (124) 2 years ago

Rantings of a virgin who hates the world because he can't get laid.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

why it's the sicko freak again: tell us more about your super-genius ideas, freak. Like you explanation religious nutism.... Little freak is soooo sick in the head. it can't think straight

[-] 1 points by nickhowdy (1104) 2 years ago

I was only joking about having sex with my wife...No one has sex with their wife after 20 years..

[-] 1 points by nickhowdy (1104) 2 years ago

That was a joke also..

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You bring up another main reason that you are miserable and unhappy. Your culture has brainwashed you into believing that sex is love. Sex has never been love. Love is not sex. Sex is the lowest filthiest form of self-gratification there is: the lowest Amoeba has the exact same sex urges as you have. The ONLY thing sex is for is procreation. Nothing else.

This swindle, this programmed brainwashing, this corruption of having sex when you are not ready to raise children and you don't want more children is why the human species has overpopulated the EARTH with too many naked apes. One reason human overpopulation happened and is continuing to happen is because humans believe that the only form of love is self-gratifying act of obscene pornographic sexual LUST.

That is the reason that all sexual acts are done at NIGHT under the cover of blankets in secret, behind closed door in SECRET so nobody can see you doing it... hiding this dirtiness from your children who would be DISGUSTED at you if they ever saw you performing this act of sexual coupling WITHOUT LOVE. Self-gratification IS NOT LOVE! It is the OPPOSITE of love. The reason all you married fools can't stand each other is because you are practicing LEGALIZED PROSTITUTION, just like now they have LEGALIZED gambling. If you want to respect yourself: don't have sex with her.

That was the original reason God cast Adam and Eve OUT of the gareden of Eden: because Adam couldn't keep hiis pecker in his pants, and because Eve was a whore who tempted Adam with the apples, the round orbs of her two buttocks and her two breasts. Sexual lust is the oldest human sin there is

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Haven't you ( turak ) died from an exploding brain aneurism yet? Seriously keep-up with the ranting. Everyone seems to get enjoyment from poking you with a stick and then watching you react.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

truth is not rant: you fucking moron. You're a brainwashed tool.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Ha ha ha ... your such a dolt.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

wrong: why are you such a congenital liar? Because you hate the truth and you hate yourself.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Comic Relief!!!

That's the only rational thing I can attribute to your post and your continuing it.

[-] 1 points by mbakunin (4) 2 years ago

do you have an alternative to suggest? no? how about this, how about evolving the present system into something spectacular rather than just posting something you dont have the guts to put your name to

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

I already gave you the only intelligent alternative to global capitalism there is. There is no other alternative: you fucking imbecile: Self-sufficient communities that do not use money are the answer to all of your woes. The only problem is: you're WEEDED to you money system: you're ADDICTED to it; you can't do without it: AND YOU WILL PERISH BY IT also: that is your doom and your problem: not mine. Now go away and count your fucking money and see how happy that will make you.

[-] 1 points by tympan55 (124) 2 years ago

You are contradicting yourself: Inane freaks who are incapable of any sane logic are filling up this forum with their illogical crap: like you are doing. (turak)

RUN ON SENTENCE WITH IMPROPER USE OF COLON.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

don't you have anything better to do than police other people's punctuation? Freak: you're scraping the bottom of your own barrel of bullshit

[-] 1 points by Revolutionary (247) 2 years ago

With love I have to say that it is quite possible we should plan for it.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Who's 'we'? You are not a 'we' You're a little scared fucking baby going 'wee-wee' because you're terrified of doing anything yourself. All of you conformist pig consumers will never get off your asses until it's too late because all of you are hiding inside a faceless mass of anonymous drone/zombies who are identical to you in their brainwashed idiocy. You speak of something being possible: but YOU will do nothing about it. You speak of planning but YOU will never plan for it. You won't do a fucking thing except sit on your fucking ass for the rest of your screwed up life and do NOTHING. The 1% are systematically taking all of you freaks DOWN into poverty and total unquestioning obedience to your masters, and not one of you jerks will raise one finger to stop them.

[-] 1 points by TheRoot (94) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Don Rickles gathered a crowd in much the same way as you are doing here. Part of his motivation was to comically entertain by pounding someone while others laughed. He was good at it but only up to a point when people just walked away. What's your motivation? Gather enough in and see who wants to let you scrape their barnacles loose as preparation? Preparation for what? A Transformation?

You say at the end of your post that a person has a choice. He can love money or he can love humans but can't do both. Still have your clothes? How about a loved one? If life is of value to you, you'd have to have given more than gratitude to have either. I'd say that you obviously used enough "evil money" to pay your internet service provider, those greedy corporations! How about enough of it to take that loved one out to dinner, get yourself a pair of shoes or a laptop to type up more of your spew? Do you recall your history enough to remember the time when money was seed corn? Those who ate it weren't around for their next planting. The poor bastards ate their money, you know their selfish savings.

With all your tirades, you gathered the crowd and have been shaking things up. Nice job! Now, what? Transform us, right? Encourage us to hug, kiss and give. But what will your supposed disciples give each other? We would have eaten our seed corn because stowing it for the next growing season would be greedy as you would say. Isn't the real transformation you seek from others one of their not living better but of their dying a long, miserable death? It sounds that way to me. Unlike those unfortunate souls following Jim Jones at his self-sufficient community, most of us that you've gathered here aren't drinking your Kool Aid. You've entertained many of us. Maybe though, you're not looking for many, just a few followers.

Most of us here do love their lives. I know that I do. I can't square it though. I hug my kids, kiss them too. I give them my love and my money too. But, as you would say, I am selfish and greedy because I use money instead of living in a cave with 20 to 30 other selfless people. Get a grip, plowman. The purpose behind your style of comedy is way too black for me. I love my life, my money and my 'humans' too. Wow! What a dichotomy, sorry a trichotomy (sp mine).

Think about sharing while you're still pounding out your nastiness from your keyboard. What are you smoking that gets you so amped up to take a walk on the vile side? You're behaving like Red on That 70's Show, only a Red on steroids, ammonia and a fifth of scotch. Do let us know.

Ungratefully Yours, TheRoot

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You so not know what love is and you do not love your children. If you did you would not be brainwashing them into becoming spoiled brats and addicted consumers and fat and unhealthy sucking on mass media.

Second: you fucking shit-filled asshole: James Jones did not create a self-sufficient community: he used rich people and stole their money and was just as greedy a money-grubber as you are.

Third: Corn is the worst thing you can possibly put into your stomach. It has no nutritional value whatsoever. One basic reason you are so poisoned spiritually, physically, emotionally and mentally is because you eat corn. Almost everything you eat and drink has corn in it. Corn is DEATH. Corn is deathsheads, corn is mass slaughter, corn is detached insane. If you ever study nutrition you will realize you are being fattened for the slaughterhouse. Your entire life's savings will go into hospital bills to keep your cancerous carcass alive a few more months. Love your life? You don't know what love IS. You don't know what LIFE is. Your entire CULTURE is sick. Your entire value system is rotten and bankrupt. YOU are sick: and until you realize this you will go into the vortex along with all the other faceless masses of consumers who eat processed food and live a life of self-gratification and addictions.

[-] 1 points by jr8686 (2) 2 years ago

ATTENTION ALL PROTESTERS!!! Do you really think you are doing your country a favor?!?! Would you like to know what you all look like? You look like the cowards in the middle east reeking havoc in the streets like heathens!!! And you are doing nothing but hurting the businesses around the areas in which you protest. If you really want to do some good, take it to Obama's doorstep. The rally should be in front of the WHITE HOUSE. Don't hold the rallies in the streets of our average american cities where people are trying to make a living. That is my only request. Good luck.

[-] 1 points by jr8686 (2) 2 years ago

ATTENTION ALL PROTESTERS!!! Do you really think you are doing your country a favor?!?! Would you like to know what you all look like? You look like the cowards in the middle east reeking havoc in the streets like heathens!!! And you are doing nothing but hurting the businesses around the areas in which you protest. If you really want to do some good, take it to Obama's doorstep. The rally should be in front of the WHITE HOUSE. Don't hold the rallies in the streets of our average american cities where people are trying to make a living. That is my only request. Good luck.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You're posting on the wrong thread

[-] 1 points by nickhowdy (1104) 2 years ago

You are correct..hugs and kisses.. We now must put a value on a hug/kiss to be traded on the open market..Let's see here a hug according to my calculations is about 1 dollar and a kiss is 5 dollars. Now I think we'll need to expand on this a bit...

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

get lost troll: the doorway is right there in your shit-filled brain.

[-] 1 points by nickhowdy (1104) 2 years ago

I'm just joking ...God, take a pill man...I think you owe me a hug or a kiss..ask me where I want it.

[-] 1 points by nickhowdy (1104) 2 years ago

Gotta Lighten it up..

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Stick your jokes up your ass. The people on wall street are not joking. The ones who own you and robbed you are not joking. The millions of people around the world protesting against the 1% are not joking. Soon you will not be joking either.

[-] 1 points by nickhowdy (1104) 2 years ago

Turak, I've been warning people about this for years..I'm on your side, if your not just a troll:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/50365826/What-is-Nick-Howdy

But now, go on and tell me, how to love thy neighbor and do the exact opposite and hurl insults at me...

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

anonymous blogs are the sign of a coward. You're a recreation of Howdy Doody the dumbest American puppet show in the 50's and 60's. You do not love thy neighbor. You only love those people who deserve to be loved, and the only ones who deserve to be loved are the ones who love you. The people who hate you and try to hurt you or rob you deserve to be killed. Self-sufficient communities will never accept Howdy-Doodys like you: you're an obsolete joke. Self-sufficient communities separate good people from bad very easily and very quickly by the close intimacy of getting to know each one personally. Most of the people in this world will not qualify for entrance because they are not willing to be self-sufficient. Self-sufficiency is not Howdy;Doodyism. It is hard practical know-how and experience and intelligence wedded to cooperative effort by individuals who are not addicted to machines and are creative.

[-] 1 points by nickhowdy (1104) 2 years ago

No actually I'm a recreation of Capt Howdy from the Exorcist..but you didn't bother to ask..I try to put a kind face to the news of the fucking evil that is present everywhere..

I have to be anonymous because of what and who I am in today's paradigm..If I was sitting at home on SS, jacking off in front of my computer, things might be fucking different...ZeroHedge is anonymous and if you think they haven't done anything to get the truth out..you are an idiot.

I'm getting the feeling you are just a troll...You're not with any movement...Unless your movement is wasting other people's time.

Show me your "works" cocksucker.

[-] 1 points by OccupyNews (1152) 2 years ago

Interesting topic. I think a compromise is to not be ruled by the banks and/or wall streets money via their debt traps.

To that end, I advocate changing the banking law that debt restructuring first requires placing the debtor in default.

If this one banking law were changed to, "Debt restructuring DOES NOT first require a default", people could actually begin to wean themselves away from wall street's money and have a stronger local economy.

It's not exactly what you are saying, but it's a giant step away from wall street and a realistic move towards your philosophy.

[-] 1 points by barb (835) 2 years ago

Well, you may soon get your wish since we are printing more money these days with nothing to back it up.

[-] 1 points by MrNiceGaius (3) 2 years ago

Comedy gold is what we have right here =D

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

wrong: this thread is a goldmine of 500 assholes just like like you: digging for bullshit and instead, having all your own crap thrown back in your face..

[-] 0 points by devilsadvocate (67) 2 years ago

Seriously, why did you start this thread. Are you trying to sell intentional communities or just looking for a fight? What do you propose the other 310,000,000 idiots do while the 24 or 36 individuals live on a farm and prosper? Better yet, what the fuck chance do you think those 24 to 36 individuals have when some of that 310,000,000 wants their new found Utopia? You have seriously got to be a fucking moron! and you are wasting your fucking time if you really believe anyone is taking you seriously. It's too bad, all this time you have spent on the earth and you haven't learned a fucking thing. Your just a nasty old man who has no fucking idea what he's talking about. And there is no way anyone would let you into theri community, and if you founded it, eventually they will throw you the fuck out! Better find a fucking cave and learn how to live with the other batty motherfuckers.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Another thing: the reason you are an idiot is because you only think in terms of buying and selling. You only worship what money can buy you. I am not selling anything. I am TELLING you how to solve all your problems. You don't like the answer: that's your fucking problem: not mine. What you consumer shoppers will never understand is that there is no consumer choice when it comes to the naked truth and cold logic. Facts are facts. Lies are lies. You just can't handle the truth because it spells the end of people like you:

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You are a common redneck. When people found and build their own self-sufficient community without using money: it won't be a fucking pipe dream, and we won't have anything that you fucking pizza-gorging, beer guzzling freaks want or can use. Ergo: you dumb fuck: the rest of you billions of loser will go to hell while we are doing fine and none of us will give a shit what happens to the remainder of the human species because we already know know that none of you are worth saving. Got that? The only and I mean the ONLY people who will want to live in a self-sufficient community that does not use money are decent intelligent people who know how to cooperate with each other as equals. You don't know HOW to cooperate with ANYONE. Now go back into your cave and stare at shadows.

[-] 0 points by devilsadvocate (67) 2 years ago

No redneck here you ignorant self serving jackass. I'm a well educated computer professional who actually thinks intentional communities would be a nice thing, so would heaven. The only real dumbfuck on this thread is you stupidity can be defined as someone who can't learn, you'v had 1200+ people try to educate your ignorant ass and you still don't get it. Grow the fuck up and get back in your cave!

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

educated? ha! ha! ha! ha! ha! ha! you think computer technology is an education? you think 1,200 morons on the internet are intelligent? ha! ha! ha! ha! ha! ha! ha tell us some more!!

[-] 1 points by TheRoot (94) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Love yourself and in so doing learn why money is good. Don't corrupt yourself and your money in the process or you'll become just another Wall Streeter.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

you don't love yourself: you hate yourself and money is evil: money is not good you fucking sick brainless freak. You are just as evil as every wall street tycoon because you love money just as much as they do.

[-] 1 points by TheRoot (94) from New York, NY 2 years ago

So you think that money is the root of all evil? The wall street tycoons don't love money. They love corrupting it. The wall street tycoons haven't made anything. They stole from those who did and have grown their larceny to scale the world over. That makes them and their corrupted money evil. Think about it. Real money is made before it can be looted and made by the effort of every honest man. Money is made possible only by the people who produce. Is this what you consider evil?

Caste your judgement where it belongs. The wall street tycoon is not an honest man but fakes it and forces you to accept it. That's why your pissed. You think that their money is real and that anyone defending money is evil. But I am not defending their money. You can't imagine a time when it was different where people like them were jailed or hanged. Now, the counterfeiters have beaten you because you think that money is evil and can't make the distinction between real money and theirs. They got you. Look at the history of money and learn.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

you're mistaking me for one of the OW movement suckers. I do not support them because they are wasting theeir lives and their energy squabbling about money. You're totally misinformed and brainwashed about money. Money is a dehumanizing abstraction: it is one of the main roots of evil. I do not think money is evil: I KNOW money is evil. You don't. Until you learn this truth: do not come and speak to me ever again

[-] 1 points by TheRoot (94) from New York, NY 2 years ago

How will you get along in your self-sufficient community, you know live day after day? I mean besides your slinging your violent denunciations at your communal brethren every minute, how would you pass the time together, assuming that they'd want you around? Would you hunt? Fish? Gather nuts and berries? Graze? Would you defend yourself from a hungry wolf or gaze at your naval while the animal tore at your neck? Would your community come to your aide and defense or just decide that they didn't want you around? When do you leave for OZ, anyway?

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Why do you want to know, jackass. Explain yourself or fuck off.

[-] 1 points by TheRoot (94) from New York, NY 2 years ago

I admit to that you're on to something. I got to thinking about what you said about self-sufficient communities because it reminded me of one that I had read about in a novel. The book had an intriguing account of one area secluded in a mountain valley in Colorado where some of the book's characters used it to get away from all the hell that they experienced. Apart from how you express it, you have described what all of us know. We're living in a hell of a place, today. You're onto something.

The book you had reminded me of is called Atlas Shrugged and presents a fascinating read about those who abandon a decaying United States. It's been quite some time since I had read it. Because of the passage on their self-sufficient community, you might want to look into it. It is a dramatized blue print but a blue print just the same. As I remember it, the whole book was a great read.

Thanks TR

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Before you sink into your fantasy of fiction... in order to change the world around you for the better.... you must change yourself FIRST. You must be willing to learn new things FIRST. You must learn how to become a self-sufficient person FIRST. That is not easy: that is DIFFICULT. That is not for consumers. That is not for computer freaks who waste their lives sitting in a cave watching shadows on a cave wall. To become a person who actually wants to create something is not enough. You must learn how to be creative. You have to actually DO it. And you will not do it by sitting on your ass reading a book.

[-] 1 points by TheRoot (94) from New York, NY 2 years ago

I'll borrow the form of their slogan and a metaphor to say that you write like a person who wants only to 'Occupy One Place' i.e, the "four walls" of himself.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You're avoiding looking at yourself critically. Before you can criticize ANYONE: you must be critical of yourself FIRST.

This is one basic reason why all of the braindead attempts to be critical of me fail.

I can successfully and intelligently and correctly criticize all of you and the civilization we exist in because I have done the hard work of looking at MYSELF and tried to find what was wrong with me... I found out after 50 years of self-doubt and self-criticism that I was wrong in many ways, and went to the trouble of trying to correct as many of my failings and vices as possible.

BUT... what I also discovered is the REASON I had developed these failings and faults: wasn't because of my intentions or myself> it was because the entire SYSTEM of global consumption and greed forced me into doing what I don't want to do and don't like doing. I don't' like shopping. I don't like using money as the only form of communication between humans

I understand one thing that none of you idiots understand.

The entire human species is sick. All of you are sick. Until you realize this and face it: all of you blathering freaks will be in denial of your many, many, diseases and vices and addictions and faults and failings and shortcomings.

[-] 1 points by TheRoot (94) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Two Q's for you. On a fundamental level, what is it that you do want? Have you attained it?

[-] 1 points by TheRoot (94) from New York, NY 2 years ago

PS: I wasn't criticizing you. I am sorry you interpreted it that way.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Ask yourself that before you ask it of anyone else.

Let me explain one congenital disease humans humans possess:

They project their own sicknesses and diseases and problems OUT of themselves so they won't have to look at themselves. They avoid looking IN themselves. They avoid asking themselves any questions. They avoid all critical awareness of themselves. They NEVER criticize themselves. They NEVER admit they do any wrong. They ALWAYS point the finger at others: never at themselves. They ALWAYS focus on other people's imagined shortcomings: NEVER on their own....

This defense mechanism which you have been programmed into makes you an automatic coward and a dishonest liar when it comes to YOURSELF. It has many name: denial of the truth: projection, the refusal to incriminate oneself in a court of law, seeing yourself in others, identifying with people who are almost identical to you and nobody else, the inability to understand anything you don't want to understand, conscious lying, etc.

The point is: I live in Montreal and I will never meet you in person unless you come here with the explicit intention of seeing me. Your life's problems are not my problems and I am not being paid to be your nanny or your mommy. Therefore if you have anything that bothers you.... look inside yourself and ask yourself the exact questions that you are now asking of others. If you can find the answers to your own questions: come back and tell us what you have concluded and we can all share in your wisdom. I realize you are a braindead freak and all of this will go in one ear and out the other of your empty brain, but I have a larger audience who reads these posts and are not immature babies stumbling around blindly, beginning to ask the first questions of meaning of their own life.

[-] 1 points by MortgagedTent (121) 2 years ago

You mean a sex economy? I n t e r e s t i n g. Won't this lead to overpopulation though?

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

No. You have sex on the brain. Pornographic sicko's like you are not wanted here.

[-] 1 points by sandpirate (89) 2 years ago

We share a common thought, thanks for the link "Eliminate the Monetary System"!

[-] 1 points by sassafrass (197) 2 years ago

Seen plenty of tirades from you about what everyone else is doing/thinking wrong (including critiques of their egos and “superior” attitudes, which is interesting since you apparently feel superior to everyone who speaks to you, even those who agree with you) ---and some, in fact many, of these critiques of our society in general I agree with. And when I say “plenty” of tirades, it’s to the tune of this thread having the most comments of any thread on this site and your word count alone enough to fill a tome. All of which has been massive amounts of your time spent staring into one of the soul-less screens you despise, typing on the horrible distracting toy you hate, time which could be better spent in a love embrace in the ocean. We've also seen plenty of talk about “happiness” and “sharing” as you hurl vitriolic caps-locked obscenities at anyone who crosses your path, and plenty of talk about “communities” of “cooperating” “equals” when you clearly have a hard time seeing anyone as equal to your superior wisdom or “cooperating” or “sharing” in a simple dialogue in an online community where all the cooperation that’s required is typed words and ideas, let alone figuring out how to avoid disease or how to power the computers you and your intellectual equals will be using to condemn everyone outside of your idyllic gulch. Which, then, of course, naturally leads to the question: are you living within such a paradise right now? If not, then WHY not, since you claim it’s as easy as getting off your ass NOW and simply doing it? And if so, then please pick any random recent day in the life and describe it for us. What did you do yesterday, for instance, or 2 months ago? All we’ve been hearing from you is a stream of bitterly scathing critique of mainstream society (plenty of it deserved) and a few words like “hugs”, “touch”, “love” and “play” and a few references to winged creatures here and there to obliquely allude to a better way of living without providing any real detail. What does your “touch”, “love’ and “play” look like and how, precisely, is it different than a hug between any grandmother and grandchild, or tender caresses and kisses between any two lovers or holding any child’s hand and skipping and laughing down the street? What kind of creative activities are your community members engaged in doing, what does the art look like, what kind of music is made, what does it sound like? And if everyone is, as you extol, working hard and “actively” engaged in “positive”, “creative” endeavors (which, is also the idealized imperative of capitalism itself, no slackers or negativity allowed), where are the limits of expansion? When the members of the community have kids and the population swells from 12 to hundreds, what sorts of changes take place? How are resources shared equitably in case of natural disaster, shortage, etc.? What happens when someone disagrees with any given decision about how to share? Instant exile? They can leave and not let the door hit them? What if they don’t feel like leaving? Does somebody make them leave, somehow? And based on what right or authority, if there are no rules? Paint us a picture, Turak….

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

you poor dumb fuck: you're a shopper. You're a consumer. That's your problem and that's your stupid fucking brainless mentality. You want to 'sold' on living in a self-sufficient community. You want your fucking computer and your fucking pizza and cafe latte and your fucking cable TV included in it or you won't budge your fat ass off your couch. You want a fucking advertising campaign, you want millions of people doing it, you want the whole world living in self-sufficient communities before you ever get off your fat ass and join one. You want your SUV's and superhighways and movies and your coke and pesi before you ever get off your fat ass and stop living as a consumer who does not thing but shop and consume... Oops: that's exactly what self-sufficient communities don't do. They don't shop, they don't consume, they don't buy anything and they don't sell anything. Face it: you fear change. You fear everything. Your kind is the type hat will go extinct when change happens.

Oops.... your mind goes BLANK: when you're faced with a society that is not identical to the one you live in right now. That's no surprise because you're a brainless person who is not interested in improving themselves.

Try to understand something: anyone who LIKES consuming and shopping and buying will not want to begin or join a self-sufficient community: this means you.

So: you're left with nobody selling you on this idea. No advertising. No persuasion. No lies. No bullshit. And since you're used to 100% bullshit you don't know what to do when there isn't any. Self-sufficient communities are not for you: take my word for it: you will never be accepted into one. Now you can leave this forum since it doesn't have anything that interests you and you have nothing to contribute to this thread. Like all the other attempts to detract: consumers like you are 100% negative and do not produce or create anything useful. People who do not contribute are exactly the people who will disappear from this world when your dysfunctional system crashes, and it will crash much sooner than you think. Goodbye

[-] 1 points by sassafrass (197) 2 years ago

Okay, still no specifics about a day-in-the-life. That's fine. Wasn't asking to be "sold" on it, really, but was curious to hear it described. And even if you're not trying to "sell" anyone on it, the sheer time and energy you're spending on your "fucking computer" (on your ass, I won't presume to know if it's a "fat" one or not) arguing it suggests you at least want someone to take what you say seriously. (Else, why bother talking about it?) Oh well, carry on.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Bullshit. You were asking to be sold on the idea: now fuck off.

This is what is so disgusting about freaks like you: you're so afraid of showing any interest or emotion, you're so fucking paranoid, you're so fucking terrified of anyone finding out who you are, you're so terrified of even having an opinion you're just a detached idiot shopping. You're a shopper period. That's all you are.

[-] 1 points by sassafrass (197) 2 years ago

I think you make some great points, your posts are certainly thought-provoking and I kinda like the surly no-bullshit attitude. The sanctimoniousness, though, is not something that seems to bode well for a community of equals, as it suggests you will be passing judgment on them all the time. Like if they aren't being "creative" or "useful", or hell, even "playful" enough. My point is that is the same driving imperative of the capitalist (money) system you so despise. It's based on who is "holier than thou" by how "productive" or "useful" they are. And how "happy" and "positive" they make themselves seem. Whether they are creating ipods or leaf ornaments or even non-material things like spoken-word poems, if their value to society is determined by how much they "create" --especially if this is so to an exceptionally judgmental degree-- this leads to a lot of the same ills you don't like about capitalism: insecurity, competition, vanity, excessive production to justify one's existence, pointless activity, inability to enjoy a moment without some kind of stimulation. And someone is always going to feel put-upon if they gather more wood than someone else and don't get something more for doing so: an extra bowl of soup, an extra hug, extra praise, obedience. Whether this is the case in a gated suburban community or in the woods. It might not be money, per se, that would circulate around this kind of society but it would be several of the same issues it creates. That's if the judgmental sanctimonious taskmaster element was to dominate. Much less so if this "spend all your time creating" imperative was dropped--- it would still have to grapple with necessary logistical and biological realities but the "joy" part would have more of a genuine shot. After all, I'm sure there'd be plenty of work to do without people feeling they have to be constantly "creating" on top of it. People like to relax, people like to (gasp!) shop, people like stimulation, people like having stuff. I don't believe that is inherently evil, as you do. It's when it becomes excessive, obsessive and runs the whole show that it's a big problem. Even in a small community like the one you're wanting, people will want to play with material objects. When it gets cold, they will want to feel like they've got a blanket they can count on being there every night to keep them warm. If a neighboring small community was to walk in and want to take the land your community was on, your first instinct would be to feel like "why should they be able to do that? this is OUR land, it belongs to us, we staked our claim on it, see, here is all our housing we've built, we've worked hard to settle here and it's ours." This principle of private property certainly gets taken way too far by many people to justify way too many absurd and horrible things, but it is an issue that has to be grappled with whenever you've got more than a very tiny amount of people living anywhere near each other. Even if "property" is communal within your community to the point of being a non-issue, relative to other people and communities you will regard it as yours. That's where it gets thorny, this sharing-the-world-with-other-people thing. Not trying to bash you. But I'm sure you will nonetheless call me a fucking something-or-other: idiot, tool, shopper, fat-ass, whatever. Good evening. :)

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

People like to shop?

I already told you you're an idiot. Your consumer ethic of self-gratification is not a universal disease shared by all 6.8 billion people on this planet. Now get lost: you're REALLY dumb.

[-] 1 points by sassafrass (197) 2 years ago

In some form or another, yes, people like to "shop" as in engage in trade of some form, exchange goods and services. Whether it's coins for carrots or carrots for a blanket, it's an exchange. People like to do this because the overwhelmingly vast majority of people don't want to (and know they can't) do and make every last thing for themselves that they may want. Even in the smallest and most basic societies, even with extremely simple lives. And yes, people also like to "shop" because they enjoy it. They like novelty, stimulation, they have a relation to the material world around them and they have since humans began. The novelty-seeking has become an extreme of its own end in the way capitalism has been allowed to dominate our society, and should not ideally reach that point. But the human desire for novelty exists nonetheless. People, anywhere, in any situation, don't prefer their lives to be the same every day. They want stimulation, activity, to feel like yesterday wasn't exactly like every day 10 years before it. And especially if they are "creative" like you want, at some point this is going to involve material objects and/or "trade" if there are enough other people around. Some people even occasionally like to shop to do some good in a local community, because it helps stimulate and support what others are doing, i.e. buying a work of art from a local artist or produce from a local farmer's market. Whether it's coins or dollars or carrots, it's an exchange. If the society has ways of discouraging greed and limiting it as an option, maintaining fairness, I don't see what's wrong with exchange. But this is my opinion and you and I obviously disagree on that point. I will free you up now to go take on someone else.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

you stupid, stupid, stupid stupid imbecile. IN order to shop you need a fucking capitalist system based upon greed and money and 1% of the people having all the wealth and power. You fucking braindead peabrain: you're a long-winded ass who does not understand that the only power given to you by the 1% after they stole everything from you was the 'freedom' to 'shop' at their stores IN ORDER TO MAKE THEM EVEN RICHER AND YOU POORER. The only reason [pep[;e shop is because THERE IS NOTHING ELSE THEY CAN DO in this profit/greed/ selfishness/instant gratification capitalist system of legalized cheating, robbery and brainwashing. Now get the fuck lost and go shop your ass off because that is ALL you have left of your self-respect.

[-] 1 points by jgrace (20) 2 years ago

Money is a religion!

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

CORRECT> That is an intelligent statement now.... do YOU believe in money or not...? And if you don't... what DO you believe in?

[-] 1 points by jgrace (20) 2 years ago

Well, ya I believe! I believe it will provide the means to acquire goods to care for my family. But I don't believe in all of it's hype! Hell, we wipe our ass with the same damn thing!

And I believe in....IDK....hippie shit with Native Americans dancing around a campfire filming from their iPhones uploading to the Internet praying for the food Gods to bring them a herd of deer through camp!?! There's a lot of people talking and thinking about it now, so let's brainstorm something better than bullshit, paper money literally created out of thin air!

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

In other words you believe in nothing: you're a nihilist, a negative freak. Welcome to your negative hell: you will be living in it for a long long time.

[-] 1 points by jgrace (20) 2 years ago

Geezus man! Jus sayin' we should really look at our monetary system. Fractional reserve banking with no real wealth is a very risky endeavor. And I enjoy life!

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Then you're no different from the 1%. You just want more money. What you are avoiding facing is that money is the reason your life is so empty. You enjoy WHAT? What your money can buy you? That is not life. That is not enjoyment. That is CONSUMPTION. That is buying and selling. That is usury. That is profit. That is greed. That is avarice. Profit and avarice are the enjoyment of life: they are the 'enjoyment' of having money and buying things with money.

Try living without money: what is left of your 'enjoyment'? You will not 'enjoy' life without your money because you were not enjoying life with it. If the deciding factor whether a person 'enjoys' life is whether they have money or not: then your entire life is a SHAM, a false perception.

The only things in life worth living are FREE. The only things in life worth doing are FREE. The only things that are of any value do not cost money.

[-] 1 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 2 years ago

This is what the masses seem unable to grasp:

If we replace our current leaders with human beings, they will sell out just as far as the current bunch. Our leaders weren't born sold out. Wall Street executives weren't born evil. They were born human. With a natural instinct to gather and store for survival. A natural instinct to care for family and community. 

When modern society was formed, we began to sell out our natural instincts. Survival turned into survival with a little more elbow room. Then survival with a little more elbow room and a nice view. Then survival with a little more elbow room, a nice view, and something pretty to hang around our neck.

Fast forward a few thousand years. With the industrial revolution came mechanized transportation, air conditioning, and television.

We had become somewhat spoiled. Somewhat motivated. Still relatively down to Earth. Still modest enough to appreciate one another, care for one another, and work towards a common goal.

Along the way, the potential for increased personal wealth became more and more intoxicating. Now, just about everyone wants to be rich. They want it so badly, they are willing to sell out basic morality to attain it. They WILL sell out basic morality if given the opportunity.

How can I be so sure? That's easy. Human nature plus years of corrupt influence plus opportunity.

Mother Nature did not plan for modern society. She did not plan on such corrupt influence. She never intended for any of us to seek or attain extreme personal wealth. We simply can not process the concept without being corrupted by it. Without compromising basic morality.

Extreme wealth is the single greatest corrupt influence of modern society. With every 'zero' on the paycheck, our basic instincts to care for family and community are compromised.

Those of you who still aren't convinced, consider this: 

If God himself gave you the power to end poverty, bring about world peace, and take a bonus of $100,000,000 for yourself, would you do it?

If God himself gave you the power to end poverty, bring about world peace, OR take a bonus of $100,000,000 for yourself, which would you choose?

Not only is the greatest concentration of wealth in world history the single greatest underlying cause of economic instability. The very concept of extreme personal wealth is the most corrupt influence in the history of mankind.

I speak the ugly truth. 

There will be no reform on Wall Street.

There will be no recovery for the vast majority. 

There will be no government "of the people" and "for the people". 

Not one of us will live to see it.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

BRAVO! Applause! Correct to the nth degree!

Which is exactly why I am founding a self-sufficient community that doesn't use money. The vast majority will go to the wailing wall and they will perish from this earth... The intelligent ones like you and me that see the wall will avoid it and create our own communities that don't use money.

This is the whole point. If you study anthropology: you will discover that before the invention of settled civilizations, humans lived for over 100,000 years in small communities of 36 to 24 individuals: no bigger, no smaller. What happened was the dynamic of overpopulation and the invention and innovation better killing tools to destroy and butcher and massacre plants and animals and fish and birds on a mass level of devastation and destruction.

The only way to stop this dynamic from happening to you, is to get OUT of the mass dynamic, and OUT of mass manufactured civilization, and INTO a small community that has nothing to do with the insane billions of apes that are in the process of committing mass suicide.

You will understand this. The brainless sheep on this forum will not because they have a herd mentality and they rely on the anonymity of millions and billions like them for their idea of 'safety' which they religiously believe comes from being one of the great unwashed majority of dumbed-down wage slaves who worship at the altar of Mammon.

[-] 1 points by uslynx81 (203) 2 years ago

You have just made the point for the Hegelian Dialectic, Funny how someone lived in the 1700's called this mindset.

http://web.archive.org/web/20080128195659/http:/www.calvertonschool.org/waldspurger/pages/hegelian_dialectic.htm

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

you are totally full of shit: you do not have the faintest idea of what a Hegelian Dialectic is, and you are a fucking troll: now get off this thread and don't come back.

[-] 1 points by uslynx81 (203) 2 years ago

You have so much hate inside you. You should seek anger management. All this hate and anger and name calling isn't going to get us anywhere.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Wrong. Your generation of emotionally dead freaks have been brainwashed into becoming the most timorous, feeble-minded, insipid, pathetic, self-absorbed bunch of do-nothings ever born. Your culture which preaches 'nonviolence' and glorifies cowardice: is so riddled with baseless fears, paranoia and mindless terror that you don't know what a human emotion is simply because you've never felt one.

The people of Egypt and Libya are not as diseased and weak as you Americans are. They became ANGRY enough to rise up and FIGHT against their masters and oppressors. Their young generation had the courage to risk their lives fior something they want: a better society.

YOU? You bloodless freaks don't believe in anything and are not willing to fight for anything and the only thing a few of you are doing now is whining about how you've been robbed... The rest of you are too busy sucking on your distraction gadgets to care about anyone else except your own selfish selves.

You think a social revolution will be achieved through love and peacefulness and non-violence: you are living in your fucking paranoid bubble of cowardice and programmed brainwashing. Egypt and Libya did not free themselves of their oppressors through non-violence you dumb fuck.

Why do you think your masters have programmed you into being passive little ninnies while they parade around the world with huge armies and nuclear weapons of mass destruction and tanks and aircraft carriers, you fucking brainwashed idiot. They have programmed you into believing that THEY: the American Govt and the ones who control the armed forces of NATO have every right to use violence and bomb innocent civilians and kill thousands of innocent people... while YOU are not allowed to use any violence against THEM.

That program has brainwashed you into believing the most evil nation on earth is not evil but 'good'... when in fact America has destroyed every attempt for democracy around the world since the end of WW2 when it became the greatest military power on earth. Your American nation's affluence is based upon VIOLENCE and HATE: your American mockery of democracy is based upon military power. NOTHING ELSE. If you want to direct your ethical displeasure against hate and anger: then direct it against your Federal Govt which has CREATED more hate and anger by its foreign policy than any other force on earth.

[-] 1 points by tomcat68 (298) 2 years ago

another genius i see. god help us

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Moron: it does not take a genius to understand that life and love is more important than pieces of paper: you do not understand this because you have never been loved and you have never lived.

[-] 1 points by Kaioti (61) from Greenville, IL 2 years ago

Do you even know what money is? It is representative of the value of resources. That way when you want milk, but only have honey to trade and the dairy farmer needs beef you are not all out of luck. Not complicated.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Imbecile: in order to live a healthy life: not only do you not need milk or honey: both of these substances are bad for you and should not be ingested. What you are too fucking dead to understand is that it is possible to live a better life than exchanging pieces of paper for services and goods, and it is easily doable. The only exchange human beings need is the exchange of human warmth and human intimacy and human touching: You sick freaks are so diseased and degenerate: you do not know what it is to touch another human being.

[-] 1 points by Kaioti (61) from Greenville, IL 2 years ago

Oh, well you and your friends should go cuddle together under a bridge and starve then. I mean if you are going to preach it, you better be living it.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

I;m not preaching you fucking consumer moron: That's one basic problem with you mono-cultural sociopaths: you think everything that is said to you is a sales pitch crafted by preachers and politicians and advertising firms. You've never been told the stark truth in your sheltered spoiled life.

[-] 1 points by Kaioti (61) from Greenville, IL 2 years ago

Imbecile: in order to live a healthy life: not only do you not need milk or honey: both of these substances are bad for you and should not be ingested. What you are too fucking dead to understand is that it is possible to live a better life than exchanging pieces of paper for services and goods, and it is easily doable. The only exchange human beings need is the exchange of human warmth and human intimacy and human touching: You sick freaks are so diseased and degenerate: you do not know what it is to touch another human being. - You

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

you're missing something in your post and in yourself: a brain that works.

Anyone reading your insane drivel will realize that all you are doing is MIRRORING ME. This is one classic defense mechanism that neurotic assholes use to avoid the truth.

[-] 1 points by me2 (534) 2 years ago

This is the 999th comment!

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Now you can join the other 998 idiots: doesn't that make you feel good that you're an idiot?

[-] 1 points by me2 (534) 2 years ago

Gee it looks like about 512 of those 999 comments are actually from you! looks like you own a majority stake in idiocy.

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Wrong: you fucking moron: I am one person: you are a mass of conformist imbeciles: now fuck off, you're a waste of time

[-] 1 points by me2 (534) 2 years ago

Is your overuse of colons symbolic of the shit you are spewing?

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

When the only thing you can criticize is my punctuation you have lost the argument::::::::: asshole.

[-] 1 points by me2 (534) 2 years ago

I was criticizing a lot more than your punctuation, guess that went over your head.

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You have no head: you're a brainless imbecile now fuck off: I'm not interested in trolls like you.

[-] 1 points by me2 (534) 2 years ago

You see, the word "colon" has two meanings. One, it is a type of punctuation, which you kind of overused and used a bit incorrectly, but then again its other meaning is the last bit of the large intestine which is basically where the feces is held prior to a bowel movement. So it's a humorous juxtaposition given that you overused colons in your sentences there, and you've excessively posted the majority of comments to your own article here, and most of those have been exceedingly negative and, in a word, "shitty" if you will, the word "shit" being a vulgar word for feces.... perhaps now you can see the humor as well as understand that my apparent criticism of your punctuation was merely the first, and more obvious, meaning of a double entendre.

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

poor little unappreciated lonely imbecile: go try to impress someone else: now get lost

[-] 1 points by me2 (534) 2 years ago

Oh well I guess it's not as funny when you have to explain it and all.

Anyway listen I just scrolled up to the top and actually read your original post that started this whole 1000+ comment thread here. That's funny! You advocate a hugs & kisses economy and then subsequently post all this abrasive stuff to everyone who comments. I like it! Originally I just had happened to notice there were 998 comments posted here and I was like cha-ching 999 is mine! How many opportunities do you get for something like that to happen? Not many in this life my friend! So I will sign off to you mega XOXOXO!!!! <--- you earned those!!!

[-] 1 points by me2 (534) 2 years ago

The guy who advocates an economy based on hugs & kisses hates ass kissers! That's fucking awesome, love it.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You're still trying to suck up to me: I despise ass kissers: get lost

[-] 1 points by nucleus (3291) 2 years ago

Cooperative societies were the basis and height of civilization. Native cultures considered a person who took more than they needed (or failed to support the group) mentally ill.

Cooperative societies have been almost completely replaced with competitive societies that have brought our existence to the brink of extinction. As competitive society fails, we will turn to barter to escape the competitive (capitalist) system. As social structures and governments collapse, survivors will return to cooperative societies as they will be the only possible method of survival.

I’d like to be more positive, but I just saw the latest reports on CO2 emissions and can’t help but feel doomed by the greed and stupidity of man.

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You're a giver-upper. You've given up before you even try. Your kind IS doomed to extinction. The people who are intelligent and cooperate with each other without using money will survive and flourish and NOT use any kind of barter or trade because that is an inhuman, dehumanizing form of human cooperation. Now get lost and join all thge other millions of freaks on this forum who don't have a brain to piss in and don't have the courage to say 'no' to their mommy, never mind 'no' to the culture you are living in.

[-] 1 points by nucleus (3291) 2 years ago

No need to be an ass (especially since you seem to agree that cooperative societies are the ultimate form of human civilization). Your behavior is the kind that turns people away from the movement.

And no, I haven't given up. I have good days and bad days. Today has been on the low side. FYI I joined my local occupy a month ago and have donated to OWS (despite not having been employed since May).

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You're unemployed because you use MONEY to define the value of yourself as a human being and you do not have the intelligence to stop using it and stop wanting it and stop using it. I do not 'seem' to know that self-sufficient communities that do not use money are the only intelligent alternative to the global robbery going on right now, I KNOW it is the only intelligent answer to everyone's problems. You don't want a better world: you want a JOB so you can make MONEY: period You have not even begun to try to improve yourself or anything else for that matter.

Another thing which is totally stupid of you is the idea of giving money to anyone in the mistaken belief that it helps anyone. Giving money to people does nothing but corrupt them into being addicted to being given MORE money. The OW movement will only be a success when it stops using MONEY. Billions of dollars were poured into Haiti: Free money!! Do you know what that created? Haiti is now worse off than it was before the hurricane hit it because it was hit with billions of dollars of EVIL GREED.

Get this through your fucking head... whether you decide to create your own self-sufficient community does not depend on anyone but YOU because in that self-sufficient community there will be no leaders and nobody whom you don't get along with... understand, you fucking ass?

If you are so fucking stupid that you ignore the message and focus on the messenger: then you can join all the millions and millions of other asses who think like you, act like you and sit on their asses waiting for a fucking charismatic 'leader' who will lead them to the promised land of milk and honey. Now get lost and join all the other imbeciles on this thread who have opened their mouths and proved to me and to all the intelligent people who read what you have posted that you are incapable of using your brain.

[-] 1 points by nucleus (3291) 2 years ago

You don't have to be an ass but apparently you can't help yourself. Try not to take down OWS with your self-righteous venom and hate.

In a true democratic society there is room for everyone's voice. Your "my way or the highway" attitude clearly demonstrates that you don't understand or appreciate that.

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

I am not interested in creating a fucking 'democracy' you total fucking imbecile: you're already living in one right now and it is completely DYSFUNCTIONAL: or haven't you noticed yet that your fucking 'democracy' is not working... You haven't? Then you need a brain transplant.

I am in the process of creating a self-sufficient community that has NO politicians and NO elected members and NO leaders and NO fucking dysfunctional democracy: got that, birdbrain?

In a self-sufficient community that has no leaders: the ONLY way human beings can live together is by COOPERATING INTELLIGENTLY. You total fucking brain-dead IDIOT. This means that NOBODY dictates to ANYONE.

However; as far as all you believers on your crap 'democracy are concerned you are correct: ... it IS MY way or the highway because this is MY thread, and MY idea, and MY agenda and it is not yours: got that? Now get lost and give away the last of your money to bums sleeping on the street and see how far that will get you.

[-] 1 points by nucleus (3291) 2 years ago

Can you possibly pull your head out of your ass long enough to have a civil discussion? Apparently not.

In a true democracy power is vested with people, not politicians. Another way to think about it (assuming of course - and I'll go way out on a limb here - that some vestige of cerebral function is still possible with the degree of cranial-rectal inversion that you are clearly suffering from) is that actions and decisions within a community are both autonomous and cooperative, and that the cooperative actions and decisions support the group as a whole.

The odd thing is that your very own hateful behavior and imagined self-superiority is directly contradictory to the ideals you pretend to espouse. I can't imagine you working cooperatively in any society, or being accepted into any society, except possibly for treatment of what is clearly a severe mental disorder.

Seriously, dude, get some help.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

The reason you can't imagine me working cooperatively is because you don't know me personally: you fucking imbecile. You're another computer generation idiot who actually believes they can get to 'know' what a person is like through internet forums... Jesus Christ on a cross. Every single one of you would shit your pants and run screaming to your mommy if the possibility of meeting me in person ever occurred. You computer freaks are anti-social FREAKS. You freak out at the possibility of human personal contact. You're terrified of meeting anyone in person. Get some help.

[-] 2 points by nucleus (3291) 2 years ago

You know nothing about me, yet you attempt to insult me with every sentence you write. You transpose your own behavior ("computer generation idiot", "anti-social FREAKS") on others in practically every one of the hundreds of comments you've posted in this single thread, clearly demonstrating that you are the computer generation idiot and anti-social freak that you rave about.

The city has free clinics, and they provide mental health services. Please, for your own sake, do something to help yourself. You really need professional help.

[-] 1 points by cmt (1195) from Tolland, CT 2 years ago

Good point.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

wrong: freak: get some help: now fuck off, your kind doesn't belong here

[-] 1 points by nucleus (3291) 2 years ago

Really, it's not to late. If therapy and drugs don't help, there is always institutionalization.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

I don't take drugs: you do. I am not institutionalized: you are. I don't need therapy: you do. Now fuck off asshole: you've been identified as a troll and that's the end of your shit.

[-] 1 points by amanoftheland (452) from Boston, MA 2 years ago

You are missing the point: There already is NO MONEY. We only have Legal tender and legal tender by definition is not money.............

[-] 1 points by frontierteg (137) from Kalamazoo Township, MI 2 years ago

Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s.

Not sure why that came to mind, but hey?

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Bye-bye troll... keep moving

[-] 1 points by americanboy (48) 2 years ago

Marshmallow! !!!

[-] 1 points by sunshower (80) 2 years ago

OCCUPY THE FED INSTEAD! almost 100,000 people in NY alone have already moved their money into small local banks and credit unions -

When that number increases to millions, and a team of OWS candidates win the 2012 elections, then we can really occupy the White House and Congress and start dismantling the Fed, first by repealing the Federal Reserve Act of 1913, and its subsequent amendments consisting of some 200 subsequent laws of Congress that allowed the corrupt Fed to set the principal banking laws of the United States for a century., and return the power of issuing our currency and setting interest rates to the Congress and US Treasury and, according to our Constitution, ARTICLE I, Section 8, "Congress will have the power to coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, ...." and "to provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;" THAT'S WHAT THE FED BANKSTERS HAVE DONE...

Since the FED has never paid taxes like any other private corporation in the US, it's time to audit it and collect the trillions it owes us. And just as the Fed banks took over properties that were forclosed , their properties can also be taken as part of the payment for their COLOSSAL tax debt, to the US Treasury and be used by our restored, legitimate gov't by the people and for the people.

We don't have to storm the FED’s property to take it over, we just have to occupy it legally, with the consent of the American people, a truly representative Congress, and a signature of approval by a President who works for the people – and not the Fed banksters.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You're forgetting a few facts: idiot: this thread is not about the Federal Reserve: go start your own thread about the Federal Reserve and fuck off.

This is one basic reason I despise all the freaks that come onto internet forums: you paranoid shitheads only have the courage to post ONE worthless piece of shit... and then you quickly hide and RUN FOR THE HILLS AND NEVER COME BACK.

All of you love trolling and shitting on other people's threads> but NONE of you ever have the courage to start up your own thread.

[-] 1 points by genanmer (822) 2 years ago

For this to work it would have to be popular internationally as well.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/end-game-possible-economic-changes-ahead/

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

WRONG WRONG WRONG ASSHOLE When you create your own small self-sufficient community: you are effectively having nothing to do with the 7 billion people of the outer world.

BUT... since you fucking shit-filled trolls are such terrified mice: none of you have the guts to join anything! unless it's a huge popular international mass movement of billions of other people in which you can HIDE in. This exposes exactly how much of a fucking coward you are,. You will NEVER do anything on your own because you don't have the guts.

[-] 1 points by diamondf (79) 2 years ago

Turak, this is a great idea that I fully support (I mean that) and suggest you try to build it yourself. Because right now all you're accomplishing with this post is demonizing a movement that's actually achieving something worthwhile. Your goal, while worthwhile, is not something realistically achievable at the current time, even considering the time shares that have attempted similar agendas. So in conclusion, stop being childish. Wake up.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

go back to sleep zombie: No. 521 and counting

[-] 1 points by diamondf (79) 2 years ago

lol. I find it hilarious that you don't have any defense to what I said xD But thank you for validating my point about childishness.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

you dumb fuck>you didn't say anything In fact I'll prove it to you. try to show this forum exactly where you 'said' something that was worth reading. You won't be able to.

Now get lost: you brainless morons are overpopulating ther internet.

[-] 1 points by diamondf (79) 2 years ago

Why would I waste time trying to argue with you intelligently? Look at your posts on this page, lol. What is this, kindergarten? You haven't shown the capacity to speak something beyond the maturity of an eight year old. Go ahead and pretend like you're making a difference here, troll xD

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Are you still here? You're so fucking stupid, you're not even aware that you're contradicting yourself. Now get lost.

[-] 1 points by CSetton (68) 2 years ago

Well, I got through about half the posts before I accepted this has be the product of a three day Meth binge at least... good luck with all of that.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

you methed out: on a drug binge now: right?

[-] 1 points by CSetton (68) 2 years ago

No, you methed out. You haven't been in the least bit respectful of any person who has replied to you on this forum. Not even ones who were in support of what you said. EVERYONE was wrong, according to you.

I've done my bit and fed a troll for the day. Done now. Back to the real world for me! Best of luck with your projects!

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Wrong. Total bullshit; you shat your fucking negative snide comment here and left: like the fucking troll you are. You bring no intelligence to this discussion: only another asshole who leaves without saying anything of value. You didn't do SHIT. IN fact all you did do was SHIT here and leave

[-] 1 points by CSetton (68) 2 years ago

Okay, just for the sake of argument, which is all you seem to want to do here- why have you not responded positively to anyone, even those who willingly tried to engage you in positive discussion? You are seething with rage, anyone who has eyes can see that, yet you are talking about peaceful, self sustained communities. A real question- who would want to live with you if all you do is express overblown anger? I know I wouldn't want you as a neighbor, sorry. I'm poor and want to see change, but in my very humble opinion your idea would never work on a large scale. Money may be printed on paper that is worthless, but if you abolish money, something else that people would perceive as valuable will just pop up in its place. You can't barter for everything you need. You sound like that loon who suggested paying your doctor with a chicken. Sorry, I just don't agree with you. You want to move people back, not forward. And, you'd have to get the whole world to agree, not just one country. People can't agree on basic issues, and that has nothing to do with money. Just because money exists, it doesn't mean you don't play with your children and love one another. You've got a very odd way of thinking. If I am wrong, prove me wrong. Start up one of these communities as a test case and see how it works. If it works and all are happy, loved, and satisfied, I will come back and tell everyone I was wrong and you were right. If you turn out to be wrong, you do the same. And now, the only time I will respond to any more of your foul mouthed attacks is when you come back here and announce your self sustained community is a success. All other comments, from what I have read, are merely personal attacks on everyone who has posted. You have a wonderful night, and let me know when your project is up and running.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Another fucking imbecile:

You can't get it through your fucking dysfunctional shit-filled brain that creating your own small self-sufficient community is not saving the world from itself. It is doing thee OPPOSITE of saving the world. When you create your own small self-sufficient community with people YOU like... not with people I like: you fucking imbecile of a jackass: you won't need to worry about me or anyone else you don't happen to get along with because you will be living with people that YOU have chosen and they have chosen YOU to plan and create your own society and community from scratch.

The point is: you ass: you will NEVER be accepted into any such endeavor because you're a scared little mouse who doesn't do ANYTHING.

IF and WHEN a self sufficient community is created: you dumb fucking ass: you will NEVER hear of it because they will NOT want anyone to interfere with their community and they are not interested in idiots who think they are ENTITLED to be given any information. You will NEVER know of the projects that are up and running EVER. Understand, jackass? Now get LOST.

[-] 1 points by OQPi (162) 2 years ago

This is the revolution.

Don't you all see? This has already happened. We are already living this dream. Simply continue.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Go dream your fucking freak fantasies somewhere else, jerk.

[-] 1 points by LaughingDreamer (5) 2 years ago

Well.. aside from the clearly satirical part of this post, I must agree. Money is unnecessary at this point in the structure of the world economy (if only we could learn to share resources instead of stealing them). The biggest problem is that those who have more in the way of resources (whether justly attained or not) would still be the structural 1%. What we need is redistribution of wealth, and then the destruction of 'capital.'

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Wrong: wealth breeds GREED. Greed creates capitalism. What you really need to do is get rid of your affluence and get rid of money.

[-] 1 points by Dalton (194) 2 years ago

"Do you want to be rich in paper money, or rich in hugs and kisses?"

Uh ... paper money. If you want to send me some of this supposedly worthless paper then I shall email you some kisses ...

... wait, did I just become a prostitute? Ah well, I'm so fucking handsome it was bound to happen eventually.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

hugs can't be sent by e-mail. Why don't you send yourself all that shit in your imagination? That's where you live all the time anyways: isn't it?

[-] 1 points by Dalton (194) 2 years ago

Thank you for your well-considered reply.

Oh, wait ...

[-] 1 points by Tommiethenoncommie (211) 2 years ago

You're a little late. Marx and Lenin beat you to it. A country declined due to them.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You're a brainwashed imbecile without any education. It's too late for you to begin learning anything.

[-] 1 points by Tommiethenoncommie (211) 2 years ago

Tell that to the people who ran out of the USSR while they could.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You dumb fuck: The USSR was a Bolshevik totalitarian dictatorship based upon armed might and centralized power. I am speaking of self-sufficient communities that are not a part of ANY lager centralized authority or power.

Idiot: when you are self-sufficient and don't use money: nobody can rob you of money because you don't use it and you don't hoard it. When you create your own self-sufficient community: you are doing the opposite of centralizing all the power into dictators like Stalin and Khrushchev: you are DE-centralizing power away from all power centers and taking AWAY all their ability to manipulate and control you. Get OUT of here.

[-] 1 points by Tommiethenoncommie (211) 2 years ago

That train of thought was discarded long ago after being found a failure. Read a history book...

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Get lost freak and learn to read a book

then get an education

[-] 1 points by Tommiethenoncommie (211) 2 years ago

I have a masters in quantum mechanics. Good night, kind sir.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

you are a congenital liar. But even if you weren't a fucking liar that you are: having a degree in quantum physics does not teach you or educate you about the society you live in and it does not teach you and educate you about the history of the Bolshevik revolution and the creation of a totalitarian dictatorship based upon terror, pogroms,, terrorization of the masses, brainwashing, enforced impoverishment, secret police, the KGB, mass starvation, mass ignorance, and mass oppression of 350 million people

All of which have nothing to do with self-sufficient communities what do not use money. Now get lost and don't come back: assholes like you are millions on the internet and you're all the same.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

no, you don't.

[-] 1 points by Tommiethenoncommie (211) 2 years ago

Prove it. Serious statement. Prove I don't. Let's see.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

First, you don't brag about a masters in quantum mechanics.....instead you drop that you have a Phd in Physics.

At least, be a good liar.

[-] 1 points by Tommiethenoncommie (211) 2 years ago

No reply button... Do you know what would happen if you made contact? (This is actually going somewhere, just hold on.)

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Well, actually, we are always in contact with everything. Although space is, on average, empty, it is not. So, along that thought, physical boundaries are not true boundaries. We are like fish in the water who don't realize that they are in the water. Read about the Casimir effect.

[-] 1 points by Tommiethenoncommie (211) 2 years ago

But I don't have a PhD in Physics. Why would I lie like that? Do you know your fingers never touch the keys/screen?

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Yes. We hover angstroms from contact.....electrons orbiting the nucleus insure an electromagnetic repulsion when we get close.

[-] 1 points by MaxRommel (57) from Ridgefield Park, NJ 2 years ago

Well, I just bought a new car and I'm happy with that.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You are? Does your car love you back? Does it smile at you when you come home? Does it cook a nice dinner for you? Do you fuck your car every night? Do you tell your car all your worries and problems? Does your car listen to everything you say? Does your car really care about you? Does your car kiss you? Does your car hug you?...

Wow: it must be a really special car you've got there... asshole.

So a machine can make you happy? For how long? What kind of shit 'happiness' are you experiencing? You mean you've never experienced anything more happy than owning a machine? Jesus fucking Christ: I own machines also. But I don't love them and they don't make me happy: maybe it's because I'm a human being and your a sick pieces of shit.

People who care more about machines than human beings are exactly the kind of filth who should never be on this thread at all. You're a fucking troll.

[-] 1 points by MaxRommel (57) from Ridgefield Park, NJ 2 years ago

Fucking your wife in th a$$ makes me happy. Ask her.

[-] 1 points by TotheMiddle (7) 2 years ago

Your heart is in the right place. And that's a good start...let us not forget practicality...Transcendence is the next stage of human evolution.

If you get this, you're well on your way...

To Wall Street: “What shall it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?” -JC

To the Protesters: "It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell." - Buddha

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Your brain is 3,000 years in the past and that's a bad start. Until you learn to live with other people in a community you will remain an ANTI-SOCIAL freak.

[-] 1 points by TotheMiddle (7) 2 years ago

Turak. I appreciate your response. Your words, however, are meaningless to me. I know who I am, you've never met me. I can live in a community just fine, I have a good job and a loving family. I operate quite normally in fact. However, until you learn to respect other people in a community you will remain...well I'm not gonna judge you.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

There is no such thing as 'normality' you freak: and stop your congenital lying. There is no such thing as 'can' without actually doing it. You're another child bored with time on their hands: get the fuck off this thread. Idiots like you are a waste of time.

[-] 1 points by TotheMiddle (7) 2 years ago

Your hate is amusing. You are far from seeing life as it is. Your mind is sharp, but instead of stabbing others with it, put it to good use. Confusing rambling thoughts to an intelligent, thoughtful response is akin to thinking our government is looking out for us. I am much wiser than you, clearly. Picking apart my words for self-amusement shows me you're still trying to free yourself from your pain, confusion, denial. I want you to find the middle road, live life not with anger or mindless denial, but with sharp focus and love. You're just missing the love part.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

get lost freak: I told you you're a waste of time

[-] 1 points by alobama (11) 2 years ago

awesome post

there are already people who trade hugs/kisses instead of money for what they need and none of them are occupying any streets

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Where? In your addled brain?

[-] 1 points by hollatchaboy (55) 2 years ago

you know what, next time you got a million bucks, I'll gladly relieve you of it.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

The next time I see you Ill kick your ass and relieve you of your wallet and credit cards. Then you can go begging on the street for someone to give you money

[-] 1 points by chrisp (51) 2 years ago

@turak: The problem is OWS folks just want the $1 million (and all the stuff it buys) handed to them.

They have no interest in a life of complete self-sufficiency (which takes more work than you can probably imagine).

Try beaming yourself back 400 years when there was no American currency, and most people were self-sufficient.

For one, there is not enough land for everyone to raise their own food.

Wait...you think you'll be able to buy food? You'll need money - not hugs!

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

There are many problems with the OW movement: the basic problem is the one I already pointed out in my original post: you idiot: they are haggling over who has the money: too little, too late. BUT... they are ACTIVE. That is the difference between the people on the street who put their life on the line and have the courage to face the police squads and being jailed and arrested and beaten... YOU don't have that kind of courage. As for your stupid ignorant claim that you need hundreds of acres to feed one family: you're an idiot. Perma-culture and modern horticultural techniques and innovations have already been designed and tested . Self-sufficient housing communities all over the world, even as far north as Sweden are already in place and functioning perfectly. From single self-sufficient apartments to entire apartment buildings with no need for outside food or power. All of you dweebs are 100% ignorant of the thousands of new innovations and inventions which have been created that make self-sufficient communities not only practical but do-able right NOW. Why do you children even come to this internet forum? Because you're BORED and lonely and have nobody to play with. Internet children are the most misinformed brainwashed bunch of idiots in the world today: as your immature posts show.

[-] 1 points by TotheMiddle (7) 2 years ago

Knowledgeable but sarcastic...not a winning formula my friend. A movement without uplift, faith, and love can only succeed in one thing, attracting the very thing it resists. You now feel angry toward me and are thinking of a snippy comeback, but in that angst realize that you are no different than the greedy folks you protest against.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

you're hallucinating: get lost. When freaks become 100% dysfunctional they no longer relate to reality

[-] 1 points by TotheMiddle (7) 2 years ago

and see...you're losing. you're running out of things to say. when you finally get to the point where you know NOTHING, all will be revealed. I have faith in you.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

get lost freak: I have nothing to say to insane freaks

[-] 1 points by garthorama11 (3) 2 years ago

THis movement wil not succeed without being humble and having humility

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

WRONG: the only time the OW movement will succeed is when they get angry enough to burn down wall street and the banks and hang the crooks from the lamp posts outside their fucking mansions: Your American pathetic movement is just a tiny financial 'ow!' Realizing you have been robbed...

"Ow! hey I'm missing money! I've been robbed!: I want MONEY! Give us MONEY! it's too little, too late. You're no better than the ones who robbed you. All of you are after MONEY... All of you focus on only one thing: MONEY. All of you believe that more MONEY will solve all your problems and all of you are dead WRONG.

Kadafi was defeated because the people of Libya got ANGRY and fed up with his regime and fought his army on the streets and had the courage to die for their convictions. You Americans don't have any fucking convictions and none of you are willing to fight for what you believe in because all of you STILL believe in the fucking sacred dollar and you still WORSHIP MONEY and want it. What the OW movement needs is a swift kick in the ass. It needs people who have some human emotion and passion: not wimps sleeping on Wall Street like homeless bums and hippies. The hippies of the 60's didn't do a fucking thing and the homeless bums on the street don't do anything but scam free food, sucking off you middle class idiots. You're all a bunch of fucking wimps and cowards terrified of everything and not having the guts to fight for anything.

[-] 1 points by garthorama11 (3) 2 years ago

"Instead of a money economy: based upon corruption, opposition, selfishness and greed: create your own self-sufficient communities and economies based upon cooperation, trust and fun." I utterly agree with this. It's possible and it will happen by our actions.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

GOOD! 2 out of 500 agree with me. This exposes the level of intelligent of the great majority of computer generation freaks.

AND... you make a very telling point: "It's possible and it will happen by our action." It will only happen if YOU do it: not if you sit on your ass waiting for someone else to do it. It will only happen when WE do it, when WE... the few intelligent people who know that words without action are a waste of time and energy.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Then DO it. If you don't, you will be a liar.

[-] 1 points by alfi (469) 2 years ago

I have read all your 500+ comments (i'm guessing the number) and I've been laughing my ass off. Whenever the trolls or my work gets to me, I just come to your page and read some more - you're so VIOLENTLY frank in your words, and yet what you advocate is only pure love, damn!

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Exactly:... And only 3 people out of 500 have had the intelligence to see that.

That is how mentally dysfunctional the great majority of people are.

And what is even more dysfunctional is the 3 rare individuals who agree with me will not do it. They refuse to wake up and create their own self-sufficient community that is not based upon money because all of you are too affluent, too addicted to your affluence, to attached to your material possessions which own you more than you own them.

Your reaction of laughter is another form of brainwashing. You can laugh all you want to now.... but when you lose your home and our job... like most of the people who are protesting on Wall Street have done: you will suddenly stop your laughter and you will laugh no more.

What you do not realize is that the tools and machines you use are not working for you... you are working for them. You spend most of your life slaving away to afford them and maintain them until you become more of a machine than a human being. This is one huge blind-spot civilized people have. History shows how humans have been taken over by their tools and machines. The industrial revolution hasn't stopped: it's getting worse. It is an ongoing history of humans becoming progressively more and more dehumanized by using more and more machines. The most obvious part of this universal dynamic can be seen in the last century. Just before 1914... there was an explosion of new machines invented and new technologies: the result was WW1 and WW2 which ended with the invention of the atomic bomb. It is pure luck that the human species has not yet blown itself up yet and destroyed the entire earth. Instead: civilized man is now using technology to destroy all of the live-giving eco-systems which humans depend on to live. Do you laugh about nuclear weapons also and ecological catstrophe? If you do, you are not as intelligent as I thought.

[-] 1 points by alfi (469) 2 years ago

You have no idea why I was laughing, I am not laughing any more because of your total misreading of my reasons for laughing. I was laughing tears of bitter joy, seeing you so sick and fucking tired of living on a planet full of self-induced ignorance, just like me. I was happy to know that some one else in this world has the guts to say it like it is ALL THE TIME with every breath like I do, even tho I choose to be very careful not to offend, unless I must. I was laughing because it reminded me of myself at age 18. I was laughing because you have a sharp sense of humor sometimes in your comments. What I wasn't laughing about was any of the stuff you listed. Please don't dismiss EVERYONE, especially ME, ok?

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

I'm 64 fucking years old and I can jog 3 miles without breaking into a sweat and I am not fucking polite to anyone unless they are polite to me and respect my views and don't laugh at them. You've already given up on LIFE and on yourself: you have no intention of trying to improve yourself or the world you live in: why shouldn't I dismiss you like all the others? You've already dismissed my goal of founding a self-sufficient community and by that alone you've shown me complete disrespect because you don't take anything I say seriously. None of you take life seriously and none of you live it passionately. I have nothing but disgust for emotionally dead people whose heart has died years ago and are only walking around performing the mechanical functions of existence like mindless brainless zombies and robots. This is why there are so few people that I get along with and that is exactly how I want it. Anyone who is emotionally dead and doesn't feel a fucking thing can go to fucking hell for all I care: just don't pollute my personal space with your zombie/polite shit.

[-] 1 points by alfi (469) 2 years ago

AGAIN, you are being blind, I have never laughed AT you or at what you say. I have been saying the same thing to all my family and friends and everyone around me since I was a boy. I wanted to communicate to you the bitter joy of knowing another like me that I felt when i first found this post. It was refreshing, it gave me energy to continue. I would like to see a world like the one you describe, I have been describing the same world to everyone too, but I would like everyone to see it with me. I own property in another country where I have already built my own house and know how to live with total self-sustainability. I learned from my grandparents.I could go there right now, i have already tried to move there permanently and live free of money and bullshit, but whenever I stay there for too long, I realize how much I care about everyone else. I want the world to be happy, not just me. So I came back here, been here for 15 years, i do whatever I can to wake people up, POLITELY because it's not their damn faults! Unlike you say that it is, you and I disagree entirely about the faults of the people, and about human potential. People need time to figure things out for themselves, rude awakenings to harsh realities has it's place in the waking up process, but it is only a small part of the entire process. You are far too impatient, and your purpose in this world awakening will be limited because of it. I never hold on to money, my family and friends hate me for it, and then they love me for it later, when the results of my way of life is visible to them. I am forced to use money as I try to help people around me living within society where money is required to survive, as people slowly awaken out of this spell they've been born and raised under for so many generations. I find myself going on angry rants about money and the slavery of humanity to it, I have burned, ripped and destroyed money just for the pleasure of personal protest against it. When I lived in communist Romania, I often used money to wipe my ass with because there was no toilet paper at the store, and nothing on the shelves in any store to buy with the money, so... crumple/uncrumple, wipe. I have obsessively thought about how to escape the system and go somewhere where there is no money and live my life free and happy since I was about 4, when i learned to read and read some Jules Verne books. I have actually found a place like that in my 20s, and it made me realize it isn't what I want, i want to take the world with me to freedom and happiness. So I began the journey of my life. I have learned HUMILITY COMPASSION RESPECT PATIENCE and many other qualities, and I'm only about half your age. Before you trampled on my tears of love and laughter for you spirit with your ignorant IMPOLITE words, did you actually read my reasons why I laughed?

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Are you saying that you're trying to get people to live in a community that is self-sufficient? Where do you live?

[-] 1 points by alfi (469) 2 years ago

I LOVE your absolute no-bullshit personality, I'm am doing it as hard as I can brother, others have made 2 sites ready to use online now for people to start voting already. At some point after a week of discussions, gawdoftruth pointed out that we are wasting time and we don't need permission to try it right now! And so we are. I would LOVE to hear opinions from you EVERYWHERE! Please have a look at:

http://www.openassembly.org/index.html http://www.uponlocal.com/

just in case you didn't know, you can post a blog where you would have a serious audience: http://anonops.blogspot.com/

Please try to calm down, the revolution is only just begun, we'll get there surely, a little patience for your fellow brainwashed humans, and it shall be rewarded with less anger and frustration for you.

[-] 1 points by BrainC (400) from Austin, TX 2 years ago

Tell you what, you send me your worthless paper money and I will send you an electronic hug & kiss for each worthless dollar you send me.

because I am here to help you achieve your dream.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Your electronic hug is even more worthless than he pieces of paper you hoard so much. You must really be lonely if the only fucking thing you can hug is your shit computer.

[-] 1 points by rales76 (1) 2 years ago

Instead of $ per hour and you go spend $ on a pair of pants for example, why not get paid in hours worked. my hour is equal to anyone elses. so that pair of pants not $100 but 10hours. My work effort is equal to anyones!

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

That is still a dehumanized exchange of time/effort. Go to a playground and watch children playing: See if they are having fun... see if they are doing any abstract exchanges. The real problem with you sick freaks is that none of you have ever SHARED anything with anybody in your entire deprived loveless lonely bored lives. If you ever learn how to share something like fun and play and happiness with other people, you will find out that there is no abstract exchange in living as you were meant to live:

[-] 1 points by JoTerrence (50) from Palmdale, CA 2 years ago

We are all with you, all we need do is adopt a new system that has already been proven over time. I think it has but we lost it over time. Can one of us come up with this system so we can adopt it?

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

It is not a system. It is a different set of values. Anyone can do it. But first you must change your values, your understanding of things and your goals and your life. You need to change the way you THINK. You need to change the way you FEEL.

I can explain the basic dynamics to you if you are serious about it.

For instance: You were born into a mass of millions of faceless people, you were born into a dehumanized system which tries to control and oppress all the millions of faceless worker-drones who slave all their life in order to maintain their own slavery...

All you can imagine is another 'system' that is engineered to control millions of faceless drones.

You can't even imagine what it would be like to live in a community that is not a part of this faceless system of massed populations simply because you've never lived in a small community in your entire life.

When you create your own self-sufficient community: you are in effect telling all 7 billion money grubbing worker drones working for money to go fuck themselves. You are rejecting the entire concept of work. You no longer will be working: you will be cooperating intelligently and willingly with other people. You are rejecting the entire 'system' of capitalist for-profit consumer civilization and replacing it with something that is small and manageable and practical. you will in effect no longer be living inside capitalist consumer society: you will be living in your own community and you will not have anything to do with the capitalist world whatsoever because you will much to busy CREATING your own society and having fun and sharing your life with other people in your community on a level of closeness and trust and happiness and respect and good intentions that does not exist in the outside world of faceless millions of people

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Who is 'we' freak? And why do you need to have something proven to you before you do it? Because you don't know you ass from your elbow is why: Now get lost and don't come back.

[-] 1 points by JoTerrence (50) from Palmdale, CA 2 years ago

We no longer have the luxury of time to experiment ugly. You don't know what I know stupid. So stop talkin shit until you know what you're talking about. So begone with your sensless wisecracks.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

What you are really saying is that you are TERRIFIED of any change and you do not want to change anything. Little terrified babies like you will go to the wall when change comes. What you do not understand is that all of you, anyone of you can do this without a leader. You're all sitting on your asses waiting fore someone to do it for you: why? Because all of you have been brainwashed into sitting on your ass in your nanny-state coddled system, and because not one of you is capable of any initiative or action by yourselves. The new order will sweep your kind off the face of the earth in a blink. Only people who are positive energy will survive the destruction of the artificial civilization you now exist inside. All of you negative frightened babies will not. It is NO surprise that all negative people are frightened of change.

[-] 1 points by JoTerrence (50) from Palmdale, CA 2 years ago

What the hell is this nonsense. Are you trying to put some backbone in the sheeple? They were never conditioned to become leaders and are quite incapable of initiating anything on their own. They have been waiting for you Turak. Have fun.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

No. I'm looking for the exception: the one-in-a-million: the few rare people who are mature individuals who have no use for leaders and are not conforming sheeple. Understand? There are millions of sheep, but not everyone is a fucking sheep: some are mature individuals. You're one of the sheep so don't badmouth your own class.

[-] 1 points by TheScreamingHead (239) 2 years ago

I love it!

Dudes, he's not saying be poor. There's plenty of money to be circulated if you SEPARATE YOUR ECONOMY from the investment banks.

How do you separate your economy?

For instance, if you are a writer, sign up for every article writing site there is online (like I did). I am self employed, and I never have to look for work.

On top of that, my schedule is my own.

http://occupyyallstreet.blogspot.com/

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

I am going further than that. I'm also self-employed. Being self-employed gives you a completely different perspective on life compared to the frightened timid little obedient workers and wage slaves who work for a master/boss. We know what the power of independence does to you: it gives you a sense of your own self-worth and your own self-respect being able to support yourself without leaning on others and being dependent on business corporations or the government.

I'm telling you: everyone can live as they wish if they throw away the dehumanizing practice of exchanging pieces of paper for goods and services. I'm telling you your entire consumer culture and society is corrupt to the bone and it has to be pulled down and destroyed. The quickest way to do this is just not support it.

What none of you understand is that you are living inside a system of VOLUNTARY SLAVERY: you're doing it to yourselves. Global capitalism is based upon brainwashing and programming 7 billion people into religiously believing that there is no other way to live except by using money. That is total bullshit. All you human wage slaves need to do is wake up and stop obeying your masters and it's OVER... FINISHED... GONE. No muss, no fuss. But as long as you try to play their game and 'work within the system' all of you are screwed because the game is RIGGED, folks. Stop using money and you can create your own life.

BUT!!!! BUT!!! Since capitalism has created 76 billion deadheads who don't have an ounce of creative energy in them: they refuse to open the gate to their own freedom when the door isn't even locked. It is the total absence and lack of positive creative energy which is stopping all of you from realizing how easily you can crush the top 1%.

[-] 1 points by tcleaves (1) from Bellaire, TX 2 years ago

Your passion turak is great, though greatly misguided and funneled in a very bad direction. Your points are not backed up by any type of citation of credibility. It's the same hippy rant that's been shouted for decades. This economy is a barge not a speedboat. What you suggest takes decades to accomplish and you won't even be alive to see it come to full fruition. You are obviously someone without kids or in a serious committed relationship due to the tone of ALL of your responses. Your lack of intellectual prowess leaves me emaciated for serious thought and debate. The ability to hurl insults and baseless diatribes is cute for an Emo 17 yr old, it just doesn't inspire a movement. I support the movement, just not the fanatical zealots like yourself. Like so many here have told you before....research and due diligence. I will start you off by directing you to Google and learn as much as you can about the Fiat economic model and the Gold Standard...I suggest you immerse yourself in the two. When you do, return with a DETAILED plan outlining how we as a society are to accomplish this using the current infrastructure in place, because factually that's the basis of all this. Now unless you have a plan to replace the ubiquity of utilities, social services (i.e. Fire, Police, Health Care), I suggest you get that plan in order as well. Once again..great passion, just ignorant and ultra misguided. I will wait for your long insult and profanity laced response.

[-] 1 points by tympan55 (124) 2 years ago

Bravo! but you will have little effect on this infantile pinhead. I gave turak the opportunity to provide a logical argument to support his unsubstantiated claims and he couldn't. His, "truths," are the product of a delusional mind, and his offensive replies are the product of a malignant self-hate.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Wrong: you have missed the point as all the other retards have. Hippies never ranted about getting rid of money. There is nothing to stop you from starting your own self-sufficient community except your own stupidity and slave-mentality. You are still expecting other people to do your work for you. As a result: nobody will do the work for you and you will rot in your capitalist society until it blows up in your stupid face and there will be an end to idiots like you and good riddance to them.

You actually expect me to do all the hard work! And present you with a detailed 'plan' of what kind of self-sufficient community will be right for YOU? What kind of fucking dunderhead are you anyways? Self-sufficient communities are organized by people who do things for themselves without asking or expecting someone else to do it for them.

You are also mistakenly assuming I am out to change the world. The rest of the capitalist consumer world can go to fucking hell in a hand basket for all I care. Because when I, and others who are organizing right now to create self-sufficient communities... have created our own community to live in that is self-sufficient... none of us will give a flying fuck what the rest of you imbeciles do, or don't do... That's the beauty of self-sufficient communities, you idiot. Once you organize and start one: you won't need to worry what the rest of humanity is doing. And what's more, you won't care. So don't try to label me as a fucking fanatic or an idealist. I am a practical realist: not an armchair computer freak who has never done anything in their life and only lives inside his head.

[-] 1 points by Indepat (924) from Minneola, FL 2 years ago

Just checking in with you thins morning.

[-] 1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

Why don't we just outlaw evil? Wouldn't that be simpler and more direct?

Oh and everybody gets a pony.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Getting rid of money effectively outlaws all evil WITHOUT an laws needed:
You cannot legislate morality or greed: but you CAN do away with the roots of greed from whence all evils grow

[-] 1 points by AgainstOWS (28) 2 years ago

You are a communist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You mean 'bolshevik' not 'communist' the term communism is a label incorrectly put onto Russian totalitarian dictatorship.

I am a COMMUNITY person.

What you imbeciles don't realize is that you have been brainwashed to react differently yo three words which actually all mean the same thing:

COMMUNE COMMUNITY COMMUNISM

They all mean the same thing: the commingling of people coming together in friendship, fraternity, freedom, liberty and EQUALITY.

Totalitarian dictatorships are the OPPOSITE of community/communal/communism.

[-] 1 points by garyrbrooks (2) 2 years ago

The thing is in some ways you are right.

The love of money is the route of all evil.

However, what is money and do the 1% really have lots of it and love it.

What we all call money is just the physical representation of an idea. In history anything has been money. Rocks, feathers, etc. As long as everyone using it believed you could exchange it for something of real value (food, clothing, houses, etc) then it was money.

Money is means of exchange so we don't have to carry about bulky goods to swap. Therefore, hugs and kisses could be money.

People forget that money has no value, it represents (or it did) the real wealth of the world (i.e. our resources).

That is why you will find the 1% don't have money, they have no love for it, they use it as a means of getting and holding real wealth (land, houses, resources, etc) which is what it was always mean't for.

That's the real issue here, they have everything of real value and we have the worthless paper and coins.

To make it harder for the 1% to get everything we must first change the fractional reserve banking system that allows them to do this. See www.positivemoney.org.uk for a solution (it is a bit UK orientated but the US uses the same system and has even more problems as the Federal Reserve is not nationalised).

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

First: you explanation of where money comes from is total misinformation bullshit. What none of you people do not realize is that if you want to change society, you have to change yourselves first before you change anything else.

The point is: you middle-class people are JUST AS selfish and greedy as the top 1%: Therefore you don't have a leg to stand on morally, ethically or any other way.

You want to get rid of the top 1%?? Stop buying shit from their stores> Stop being materialists: stop valuing material goods, STOP COPYING THE RICH;

Once you voluntarily divest your selves of all your bad habits: the top 1% will crumble, die and fall: BUT NOT BEFORE you change how YOU live.

[-] 1 points by Toddtjs (187) 2 years ago

How many hugs and kisses for a kidney transplant?

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

If you're that sick: we don't want you in our community to begin with: get lost.

[-] 1 points by Pottsandahalf (141) 2 years ago

You have the wrong idea about money, moneys not a medium of exchange of goods and services, money is a representation of your value.

So if I worked all day and made $100, then I was worth $100. I decided that the best way to spend my day was to work to make $100, I became $100.

So basically we already have a system of sharing each others time energy and resources. By using money, we convert our time and effort into something that we can mutually trade with.

I love both money and people, because they are one and the same!! If I make $100 in a day, then on that day I was both a person and $100.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

you haven't been potty trained yet. You're a perfect candidate for becoming a McDonald's employee. They have pictures you can punch so you don't need to be able to read or write or think. They love obedient little wage slaves like you. Enjoy your minimum wage life. Bye-bye.

[-] 1 points by Pottsandahalf (141) 2 years ago

lol ive always made more than minimum wage. It's because my labor product is more valuable than minimum wage. Thats the point.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

you're an ignorant uneducated wage slave. You like being a slave to the rich? Apparently you do:

[-] 1 points by Pottsandahalf (141) 2 years ago

Im not a slave to the rich- I live from the value that I produce and sell to others in the free market, just like everyone else. I have a fair contact with a corporation to sell them my labor in exchange for a wage. This was a perfectly free and fair agreement made by two independent parties. I'm perfectly free to stop working and go be a hobo somewhere. Of course I'm not going to do this because I like enjoying the benefits of selling the value that I created.

Stop spewing bullshit on the Internet and go produce something of value to sell to others

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

you are a SLAVE TO THE RICH. Without their corporations hiring you: you would starve to death. So don't tell me you're not a sl;ave to money. Face it: you're a slave to money and to the rich who have most of the money in the world.

They have PLANS for the few middle class left in the world: asshole. They've already repossessed more than 22 million homes from you Americans who love to claim you're the richest nation on earth: you fucking jackass. Very soon, there will be no more middle class and your jobs will disappear. You do not create ANYTHING but your own slave mentality when you work for anyone but yourself. There are millions and millions of people out of work who desperately want a SLAVE job, working for some huge corporation so they can pay their rent: jackass: THAT'S HOW THEY LIKE HAVING ALL OF YOU BY THE BALLS. As the number of middle class shrinks and shrinks: each one of you fucking 'I'm all right: jack" assholes will slip from their positions and JOIN the poor and homeless... and then it will be TOO LATE to wake up: you fucking moron. What disgusts me is that every selfish pig like you who is not homeless, in debt up to their ass, out of work, etc. does not give one fuck about his fellow man. And because you don't: your class is going down the fucking tubes and none of you imbeciles are going to wake up until it's too late.

[-] 1 points by Pottsandahalf (141) 2 years ago

AhahahahahHahahahaha lololoolololol wow funny. Good luck being a slave- I'm going to be my own man

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

freak: you are a slave: now go back to your mommy and tell her you were using her computer without her permission and she will send you to bed without your milk and cookies

[-] 1 points by Pottsandahalf (141) 2 years ago

Lol that was lame try harder.

Stop blaming everyone else and start blaming yourself for your failures.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

little baby: goodbye

[-] 1 points by Pottsandahalf (141) 2 years ago

It's been nice trolling you- go have fun living in your fantasy land

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

So you admit that you are a troll> YOU HAVE BEEN RECOGNIZED and your comments here have been DELETED from the public consciousness: your entire mission has failed.

[-] 1 points by mishelh (11) 2 years ago

bartering

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Now the under-five age group is kicking in... soon the babbling babies on this thread will be down to sucking on their pacifiers... can you fucking imbeciles regress any further down into infantile stupidity? Why don't you burrow back into your mother's womb? That way you can successfully say you didn't understand a single word I said and rationalize it to yourself.

[-] 1 points by rb1754 (5) 2 years ago

I'm a filmmaker and a proponent of the Occupy Wall Street movement. This country needs change and all over the world they are hearing our message. I'm making a music video to help spread the message in popular music

Please support the music and help us work towards change. Any contribution is a good contribution.

http://www.indiegogo.com/Occupy-Wallstreet-Music-Video?a=288373&i=addr

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You're in the wrong thread: start your own

[-] 1 points by omg84 (3) 2 years ago

sooo I have a few questions. Well actually, I want to start off with everyone has a right to his or her opinion... ok so, who decides how many hugs and kisses are fair payment for different tasks? if you do not receive what you feel to be enough hugs and kisses for a job you have performed, who do you complain to? is there some kind of enforcement agency??? and how do you pay these enforcers? will we all as a community go by daily to hug and kiss these workers? If so that is not fair, my hugs and kisses are worth more than others...there should be fair taxation. also, when I have sex with my significant other I hug and kiss him...does this make me a prostitute?? oh one last one...what if the person has cold sores or other contagious things...do they have to give kisses? if not they get things for free? or on the flip side, if I work for someone who has something, do I have to catch it in order to be paid? just curious :)

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

your questions are idiotic: as are you; get lost

[-] 1 points by rickMoss (435) 2 years ago

Too cruel

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

If you can't take the fucking truth: then get the hell OUT of here.

[-] 1 points by MJMorrow (419) 2 years ago

Eventually, we will have a money-less market system; where labor and services will be provided by artificially intelligent machines. It is a matter of getting AI to replace lawyers and surgeons. The time will come and then political elites will be able to phase out the finance elite or exterminate them; depending on how democratic or sociopathic the politicans, of the future, may be. [wink]

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

another imbecile goodbye

[-] 1 points by MJMorrow (419) 2 years ago

You really don't believe in the future potential of a money-less market system? [shocked] How would a Capitalist system compete with a money-less market? Would you work for stuff, if it was given to you for free?

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

sigh.... I don't believe in anything Nor do I disbelieve in anything The word 'believe' has no semantic meaning.

I am speaking of a NEW way of living, a NEW way of forming a community

Not an improved brand of Pepsi or Coke

I am speaking of a community that is self-sufficient.

That means NO market. NO buying. No selling. NO consuming. NO stores. NO mass manufactured goods

the result is... are you ready?

NO taxes... NO work, NO wages, NO bosses, NO wage slaves NO government, NO police, No conflict, NO hierarchical class status No idiots, NO greedy pigs, NO pizza, NO beer, NO computers NO cars, NO expensive destructive highway systems, NO gasoline NO corporations, NO factories, NO pollution, NO rich assholes NO middle class. NO lower class NO banks NO money, NO upper class etc...

Whoops!.... that means no idiots like YOU either.... bye-bye.

[-] 1 points by MJMorrow (419) 2 years ago

No pizza...really?

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

bye-bye

[-] 1 points by Truthquake (1) from Bakersfield, CA 2 years ago

As you guys stand up to corporate greed, I am backing you but I also fear for your lives, as the top 1 control the media. They control the government, And the Robber Barons have had over 100 years to plan and dig their roots deeper. Give the rich more money my but, all the rich people do anymore is go to investment banks to collapse entire markets just for that next billion. As I see it we need another crazy president like Teddy Roosevelt, GO TRUST BUSTING. The only thing we can do is hope to find someone willing to dedicate their life to getting rid of these boards of billionaires and getting our freedom back. Away with the lobbyist, the lawyers, and burden on the 99. This is what I mean, get rid of the people that make it possible to bring big banks and the government together.

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You as everyone else on this thread is missing the point

Get rid on money and you get rid of them:

no fuss, no muss.

You want to wipe out the rich?

Get rid of money: period and they will all disappear

Stop using money and they will all go bankrupt and die

When you do not use money: no govt can tax you: end of all taxation slavery When you do not use money: nobody can be rich

[-] 1 points by NortonSound (176) 2 years ago

Money is just a means of exchange. Carrots wilt. But, holding all the chips and not playing the game is not living.

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Exchanging shit for some other shit is not living. Hoarding chips or carrots is not living. Greed is not living. The reason you are a bored dead brainless idiot without any creativity or originality is because everything you use is mass manufactured crap. Get rid of it.

Oops: then we will also be able to get rid of people like you who can't exist without their precious consumer products... Why what a nice thought: killing two birds with one stone. Getting rid not only of money: but all the stupid greedy suckers who can't live without money... gosh: now I understand why all of you freaks are so adamantly against the simple logic of my solution to all of your problems.

[-] 1 points by NortonSound (176) 2 years ago

No, no, no--there us always an excgange it is simply the law of nature, which abhors a vacume, Plant and harvest, my friend, We don't work ythen we don't eat so well, that being said, both industry and leisure can become abuused. There is nothing in heaven and earth that is not natural even plastic is a natural sourced material, Never forget that, never let emotions blurr the math,.I understand contempt for material things, but it is the hoarding of wealth that is the issue, like a little-league baseball game, it is chaos for every player and fan without mutual rules and a referree, there are no non-natural goods and services, this is simply where our develovment and curiosity have taken man, like the device you are holding on to, use it for good., Pllution, is only misalocated resources--live strong my friend.

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

another fucking moron: goodbye

[-] 1 points by NortonSound (176) 2 years ago

No, really the radical right loves to moc people who have become disillusioned with the give and take of society. In older times, there were many fewer people and so, gathering and communal farms worked. Today we must feed hundreds of millions, without rules and devices only chaos and the survival of the devious would prevail. Contempt for the products of our labor is not the answer, it's like spitting on the Mona Lisa, or your child's crayon drawing. A precious momento of a lost loved one, or a comfortable old pair of shoes. But when the economic and political ystem is so broken , as it is now that it breeds contempt for the fruits of our labor, then the greedy will soon figure out how to take it all for themselves. Moral--Start your own business with a few trusted friends who are honest and hard working and create a just and green corporation. Target one that exists today that you despise and do it better, cheaper and advertise it more effectively. Take the chips away from the bad actors and make this a more just country. The material goods and services you provide could save lives, educate the ignorant and more. I'm depending on you.

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

wrong moron: there is no give and take in society anymore: there are just greedy consumers in America buying shit made in China they don't need. There is no contempt for products your labor makes because you don't MAKE anything anymore: you buy all your crap: you fucking brainless twit.

You do not 'must' feed the hundreds of millions: you just have to feed your own community. IN fact NOBODY has ever fed them and nobody ever will feed them. If they are to stupid to change how they live: let them go extinct.

You're a waste of time. Pretend I didn't respond to your idiotic post.

[-] 1 points by NortonSound (176) 2 years ago

Pretend? So you're not seriously seeking a solution?

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

bye-bye

[-] 1 points by nichole (525) 2 years ago

Hugs, kisses and Molotovs!!!

[-] 1 points by metapolitik (1110) 2 years ago

This thread is awesome.

I have a boner.

I say we use condoms as currency.

Let's seal that deal, shall we?

[-] 1 points by RevolutionaryTruth (95) from Houston, TX 2 years ago

Most people now days expect the government to serve and protect. As we have seen in the past couple of weeks when people assemble and demand change they will first ignore in hopes that it will just go away, then they will say "i think its good citizens are voicing their opinion their dissatisfaction in the way their government is.", finally they realize that we are for real and we are not going anywhere until CHANGE HAPPENS!!! "City officials had originally been supportive of the protesters, with Oakland Mayor Jean Quan saying that sometimes 'democracy is messy'." - Associated Press http://therevolutionarytruth.tumblr.com/

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Wrong. You can sleep on wallstreet fot the next ten years and the rich will still not give in to one of your demands.

The timidity of Americans is amazing: terrified mice too afraid to stand up... think other people standing up for them will solve all their problems. Shut off your computer: Go there and join the protesters and live on the street for a month: But you'll never do it.

[-] 1 points by RevolutionaryTruth (95) from Houston, TX 2 years ago

if i could drop all of my obligations like my job and parole, I would already be there! so what i try and do is get the true message of OWS instead of what the mainstream media portrays it to be. http://therevolutionarytruth.tumblr.com/post/11716755629/occupy-wall-street-a-nations-cry-for-change

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

parole?... what were you paroled for?

[-] 1 points by RevolutionaryTruth (95) from Houston, TX 2 years ago

are you asking what i went to prison for?

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

yes...is that too personal a question?

[-] 1 points by RevolutionaryTruth (95) from Houston, TX 2 years ago

no, because i cant change what i did i just have to move and make better choices per-say. it was possession of a controlled substance over an oz.(hydrocodone) which is a Felony 3

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

That's not a crime: you're a good person. Maybe on the weekend you can make it: I'm going to the rally this week in downtown Montreal. They're in every fucking city in North America!

[-] 1 points by RevolutionaryTruth (95) from Houston, TX 2 years ago

dude thanks! thats awesome to hear someone say that! Yea i'll go this weekend you do have a point

[-] 1 points by madashell11 (2) 2 years ago

Hey turn the mirror around for a moment. Who are we all lining up with? Van Jones? Who is he? We don't need to be lined up with all these anti-american folks. Join the process Take our march to Washington, To local Capitals - Tell the elected officials to stop the bad deals, the corrupt Unions - Why are my UNION DUES spent on campaigns- when it should go to my health care - my pension - Union Workers - Ask yourself Why - to we stand by when our leaders spen 100 million of our dues money on political campaigns?

[-] 1 points by madashell11 (2) 2 years ago

Hey turn the mirror around for a moment. Who are we all lining up with? Van Jones? Who is he? We don't need to be lined up with all these anti-american folks. Join the process Take our march to Washington, To local Capitals - Tell the elected officials to stop the bad deals, the corrupt Unions - Why are my UNION DUES spent on campaigns- when it should go to my health care - my pension - Union Workers - Ask yourself Why - to we stand by when our leaders spen 100 million of our dues money on political campaigns?

[-] 1 points by Shryke (2) from Panama City, FL 2 years ago

That guy Turak is a one person hate machine and will do nothing good for this movement with the kind of hate speech he is shelling out. I agree with the OWS agenda but all that negativity is gonna kill this movement before it can get a foothold.

If there are any real Leaders of this movement who wish to discuss my ideas as to how to help organize the movement, please feel free to contact me at:

jholmesbeach@yahoo.com

I will discuss ideas with anybody EXCEPT that Turak dude. Just put OWS in the topic so I know to open it.

[-] 1 points by tympan55 (124) 2 years ago

You are right about Turak, every time he submits a post he not only demonstrates his closed minded stupidity but also his deep seeded self hate which always shows itself by attacking others.

[-] 1 points by Pottsandahalf (141) 2 years ago

Agree

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

wrong: it is all of you who are close minded to the solution for all your problems: creating your own self-sufficient community is the only way you will ever lead a happier healthier life.

I 'm curious: why do you hate yourself so much?

When I am attacked by more than 400 people and defend myself and defeat all comers: its called superior logic and superior intelligence: it's called courage and honesty and standing up to all negative bullies and exposing the cowards who run away and have nothing to say for themselves... like you for instance.

Do you know of anyone else who has the courage of his convictions?

Not one of you wimps have the courage to stand up for what you believe in because you believe in NOTHING: all of you wimps have NO morals, NO decency, NO honest, NO courage, NO intelligence, NO logic, NO common sense, and NO ability to express yourselves so you can be understood by another human being. All of you trolls throw in a few stinking negative naysaying comments and then run for the hills after I kick your hypocritical asses with the brutal truths you don't want to face. Awww poor little cowards: can't stand up to logic and common sense.

[-] 1 points by tympan55 (124) 2 years ago

I see! We are all wimps because we don't bend down and kiss your delusional ass! You are naive, immature, and your ideas about self sufficient communities reveal only one brutal truth- you lack the education and superior intelligence your claim to have. You have exposed nothing, you have said nothing.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

No you do NOT see: I am speaking of creating self-sufficient communities with NO leaders, and NO followers, and NO ass kissers... I DESPISE ass-kissers. If you try to kiss my ass I will kick your face in and you will be in the hospital for a long time.

All of you trolls who are against the OW movement and who have no decent values ARE MY ENEMY. Understand?

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

WRONG: I have explained logically how anyone of you shitheads could solve your problems: the problem is: all of you are far too corrupted by money and by all the shit you buy with money to ever even want to live a better life than the drugged brainwashed existence you live now.

None of you have an understanding of the society and culture to exist inside. None of you have bothered to learn the history of your own past. None of you are aware of what is happening now. None of you are educated. None of you want to learn anything worthwhile None of you CAN learn anything worthwhile. None of you have a rational argument. Morons with the IQ of a penis. Mindless worms: blinder than a bat. The paucity of your arguments and intelligence is so easily destroyed by me it is a boring chore that is getting more and more boring... as the people showing up on this thread get dumber and dumber and DUMBER. You're the last and lowest scrapings of the barrel of monkeys poisoning all of you into gibbering idiocy.

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Exactly what IS positive about the OW's movement? One thing positive about the OW's movement is that they DO NOT HAVE ANY LEADERS: you fucking shitfaced imbecile Another thing that is positive is that they are SHARING THEIR LIVES WITH EACH OTHER, and cooperating INTELLIGENTLY with each other: you total fucking MORON.

Another positive aspect of the ow's movement is that these people are helping each other without trying to make a profit off each other! Which is the only reason they feel so good and so positive: you total fucking blind ass.

Do you have any fucking brains at all??

These are the positive aspects of this grass-roots movement which is rising up all over the world spontaneously!

But your STUPIID greed has already derailed all of your positive energy into squabbling over money!! Instead of creating your own communities where you do not use money and do not squabble over money.

Do any of you stupid asses have any intelligence whatsoever??

[-] 1 points by number2 (914) 2 years ago

funny shit.

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

you're just a number

[-] 1 points by number2 (914) 2 years ago

yes but i still give damn good kisses and hugs

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

to who? Or are you lying like you usually do?

[-] 1 points by number2 (914) 2 years ago

i lied

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

your lying is only a symptom of your miserable isolated computer existence. Turn off your computer and find the courage to go outside, meet real living people and give them a hug.

[-] 1 points by number2 (914) 2 years ago

i think you need a hug

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

I am a professional massage therapist: I give full body hugs to people stop avoiding the truth when it hits you in the face

[-] 1 points by number2 (914) 2 years ago

chill out then. This is odd that the person who starts a thread about hugs and kisses is so hostile to everyone. I honestly thought that you were a very talented comedian and I wanted to compliment you. I didn't know you were serious. Now let's be friends and fight the fascist corporations and politicians.

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

I am hostile to all people who are liars: now fuck off

[-] 1 points by Salaam86 (161) from Springfield, IL 2 years ago

this guy is crazy. every post from him is an ad hominen attack. it's people like this that make us look bad. -_-;;

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

As hominen comments that do not address the issue being discussed are filling up this thread with dozens of shit-ass trolls who come by: drop their shitload of ad-hominen comment and run away. You and all the other trolls on the internet are why forums are dysfunctional.

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

As hominen comments that do not address the issue being discussed are filling up this thread with dozens of shit-ass trolls who come by: drop their shitload of ad-hominen comment and run away. You and all the other trolls on the internet are why forums are dysfunctional.

[-] 1 points by Salaam86 (161) from Springfield, IL 2 years ago

mmmm. ok mr troll. i like ur tin foil hat btw.

[-] 1 points by uslynx81 (203) 2 years ago

So just what do you propose to use to pay for your World of Warcraft account?

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

I do not play these sick games: you do. Your entire culture of fantasy and abstract unreality is why all of you are detached from reality

[-] 1 points by uslynx81 (203) 2 years ago

You just made my point. I don't play that game ether although 4 million American's do.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

See? The second I ask you a decent logical simple question you RUN AWAY: because you are a liar, a troll, a freak who has no moral principles, a paranoid jackass. NO Dialogue, NO communication, NO honesty: just little stinking cowards running away whenever asked to reveal themselves.

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

then you agree that the solution to your problems is creating your own self-sufficient community that does not use money?

[-] 1 points by tympan55 (124) 2 years ago

Renunciation of material wealth because of its negative effect on our spiritual well being is at the heart of Eastern religion, while Western religion proclaims, "For what greater purpose can wealth be pursued than for the greater glory of god?"

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

I am speaking of physical health: emotional health mental health, social health based upon the independence of the individual and the individuals having the power to voluntarily cooperate with other independent individuals. Take your out of context quotes and stick them up your meaningless ass.

[-] 1 points by tympan55 (124) 2 years ago

Thank you for demonstrating the poverty of your ideas. You are a loser.

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Wrong I am a winner: you are the loser for believing in mythological gibberish You religious nuts are even worse than the 1%

[-] 1 points by tympan55 (124) 2 years ago

Hey turak, speakin of mythological gibberish, tell me bout Universal truth and Universal logic? Gotta get me sum a that! UNIVERSAL TRUTH BELONGS TO A TRANSCENDENT REALM WHERE WE IN OUR FINITE NATURE LACK ACCESS . Are your Universal truths the archetypes as conceived by Plato, or are they of your own creation?

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

No Universal truths are truths that are universal: they apply to everyone and everything in the Universe without exception. If you can find an exception to a truth it is not universal.

For instance: the more selfish you are: the stupider and the more arrogant and narrow-minded you become. That is a universal truth. There are no exceptions to universal truths

For instance: the more you share your life with other people and treat them as equals without looking up to them or looking down upon them: the more human you become.

You see you stinking disgusting non-human ass: you are not a human being. You are a dehumanized freakhead living in your fantasy land of distraction unable to understand simple truths.

Universal truths are not created. They exist as the functioning dynamics of all energy ini the Universe and there are no exceptions to how they work.

For instance: freaks who try to make fun of everything become insane maniacs babbling idiotic crap because they cannot distinguish between what is serious and what is not.

For instance: imbeciles who are incapable of telling the difference between a cunning lie and the truth end up believing in the lies which have been sold to them by liars and disbelieving honest people who tell them the truth.

[-] 1 points by tympan55 (124) 2 years ago

Just as I thought! You are a fraud who only knows how to insult people. Please explain the "Universal logic" in your claim that people who are selfish are also stupid and arrogant, or any of your other, "Universal truths." Just by saying it doesn't make it true. You must present an argument with true premises (not opinions) and a conclusion that is logically consistent (are you even familiar with the laws of logic?). Anyone who believes that they have arrived at universal truth is delusional and belongs in an asylum. FUNCTIONING DYNAMICS OF ALL ENERGY IN THE UNIVERSE! What an empty crock of shit!

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Wrong: go buy some beer: Budweiser has sold you very well on the religion of stupefying yourself with piss-alcohol.

[-] 1 points by tympan55 (124) 2 years ago

Use your superior intelligence and explain to me why I am wrong.

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

ll true knowledge and understanding comes from self-knowledge and self-understanding: not from other people. If you ever find a selfish person who is not stupid and not arrogant: you will have proven me wrong. Until that time: go away. I am not here to sell anyone anything. I am here only to explain a few simple truths which none of you have been able to disprove

[-] 1 points by tympan55 (124) 2 years ago

Thank you for not responding with obscenities and insults.

There are many people who do not know the meaning of a selfless act. Whatever they do, they are only concerned with how it reflects on themselves. If they do a good deed, it is more important that everyone knows that THEY did the good deed, than the actual benefit of the deed. This is selfish without being either stupid or arrogant.

"Know thyself," marks the beginning of Western philosophy. "It was Socrates who expressed most clearly this radically new prestige of knowledge and conscious intelligence when he claimed to be the only one who acknowledged to himself that he knew nothing." (Nietzsche)

The quality of selfishness is antecedent to any articulation of knowledge or understanding. Human selfishness is an elaboration of our animal instincts to appropriate and control. This transformation takes place during the Graeco-Roman epoch when human worth is first reduced to a numerical equivalent. The accumulation of wealth at the expense of another is accompanied by spasms of arrogance and entitlement, or in other words, selfishness.

You seem terribly defensive about the prospect of being dis-proven. Perhaps you should not be so adamant about maintaining a monopoly over truth, people will respond more positively. "If you do not take credit, credit cannot be taken from you." (Lao-tse)

You do not need to respond to this post unless you feel absolutely compelled to do so. I never wanted to get into a shitting match with you, and if we might agree on one thing, it is that the guy who wins the shitting match is the bigger asshole!

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

sigh: another armchair idiot. There is no monopoly on truth. Universal truths exist independent of the people who discover them. Nobody can disprove universal truths: they can only discover them. I am not defensive about anything. Your PERCEPTION of reality is so fucking garbled it exposes how garbled your brain is. That is not a surprise: your generation has had its brains friend by mass media advertising and propaganda. You are a perfect example of the millions of imbeciles on the internet who try to sound as if they are sitting in an ivory tower and are 90 years old and have lived a life. You haven't even LIVED yet so shut up. Shut off your computer and go out and meet people and stop your fake act.

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

I am speaking of physical health: emotional health mental health, social health based upon the independence of the individual and the individuals having the power to voluntarily cooperate with other independent individuals. Take your out of context quotes and stick them up your meaningless ass.

[-] 1 points by tympan55 (124) 2 years ago

You don't know a thing about me, but I know you brother! I suspect you are a pimply virgin who is angry at the world because he can't get laid. Everything you say is garbage. Go to school and see a psychiatrist. End of conversation.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

By the way... you were so upset at reading the truth you responded to the wrong thread. The post you wanted to respond to is the one above the one you did respond to.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Is that so?..... by-by little pimply virgin oops... how did I know that?

[-] 1 points by tympan55 (124) 2 years ago

I gave you the opportunity to defend your unsubstantiated claims with a logical argument and you couldn't. You are a pathetic loser with delusions of grandeur.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Wrong: total bullshit. First I claim nothing: I either KNOW, or I DON'T KNOW. 2nd: Everything I have said on this thread has been proven and substantiated by thousands of CREATIVE intentional communities and ways of living which are functioning all over the world today. 3rd:your obsession with winning makes you a loser. 4th:I am not the one deluding myself and lying to myself: you are.

[-] 1 points by tympan55 (124) 2 years ago

Everything you say is an unsubstantiated claim. Explain the ways these communities have functioned successfully. What are you using as your criteria for success, how is it being measured. That is the stuff of rational inquiry.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

you've got success on the brain syndrome. Go watch battle of the stars and watch them 'succeed' and get off this thread

[-] 1 points by miller (40) from Bronx, NY 2 years ago

You first. Give me all of your money please. You can even have a hug and kiss. and gratitude, gratis!

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

selfish assholes who only want money are enemies of the OW movement: Somebody can this troll NOW

[-] 1 points by Salaam86 (161) from Springfield, IL 2 years ago

Sorry, but we have to be more realistic than that. You should work for the closest possible change, and worry about the more esoteric stuff after.

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

bullshit. I am one thousand times more realistic and logical than any of you . Getting rid of money is not esoteric: is is BLUNT HONEST TRUTH. It WORKS. I can be done by any group of people who want to improve their lives. The real problem is that none of you imbeciles WANT to improve ANYTHING.

[-] 1 points by Faithntruth (997) 2 years ago

Everyone is missing the point? Thousands and thousands of people? And you are the only one who sees how things should be? Do you know how that sounds?

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You think that the majority is always right and whatever the majority wants is right and all minorities are wrong: is that it? So when Galileo stated that the earth was not flat: but round and the whole world told him to shut up... he should have kept his mouth shut and that way you would be living in a world where everyone believes the world is flat: right? You just size up a situation and figure out which side the majority is on... and you go with the flow> Majority wants to smoke crack cocaine? ALRIGHT! Majority wants to go to war? ALRIGHT! Majority wants to commit suicide? ALRI-

Do you know how that sounds? It sounds like you don't have a brain.
This is how incredibly fucking STUPID you are. You do not have a brain to think for yourself

[-] 1 points by Faithntruth (997) 2 years ago

No, you sweet talker, you...I don't think the majority is always right, I just think you are an egotistical twit with a bad idea.

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

I don't think: I KNOW you are a twit with no brains and no intelligence.

[-] 1 points by Faithntruth (997) 2 years ago

Your use of a colon was incorrect. You made it a statement that you dont think. So you want to compare iq and gpa? I promise, mine is bigger than yours! Thanks for the laugh, I needed it.

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

grammar police are the lowest of the low. Don't you know that yet? Of course you don't; otherwise you would not try to rationalize your own non-existent intelligence

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Barter is nothing new. Join in if you want there's nothing wrong with it if you have something to contribute and there is something you need that you can get in exchange. But unless there is a huge upheaval that isolates us all in major ways their is no practical way to support this society with barter. Our monetary system is based on resources and product already the only thing wrong with it is the abusers and lack of policing.

[-] -2 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

another imbecile: I am not speaking of barter or trade: I am speaking of self-sufficient communities made up of intelligent self-sufficient individuals who cooperate with each other on a voluntary basis. Not trading anything but hugs and kisses.

The point is, you have never hugged or kissed another human being in you life. So for you, and all the other deprived freaks out there in machineland: this idea is not only alien to you, it is unimaginable to you.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

So your a socialist as well as a Nazi. Ask the USSR how well socialism worked out for them, and have a seance with Hitler and ask him how well fascism worked out for Him. Reading your posts it is easy to see that you are a deeply disturbed and anti social individual. Go to your isolation where ever you may find it, but consider seeking professional help and medication or your libel to blow what grey matter that you have out your ears during one of your rants.

[-] -2 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

socialists do not live without money: you fucking imbecile Nazi's do not exchange hugs and kisses: you total moron.

get your fucking ass out of here: you're too fucking stupid for words.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

irrelevant. If you don't believe in violence stop promoting it. "Again, im saying to kill money, money which is just an idea or a notion. " the consequences of such an action are systemic and real and clearly a whole lot deeper and more complicated than you have bothered to imagine. "The same way we killed the "flat-earth" notion, im suggesting we kill the money notion." Fine, that i can agree with almost... its not patently offensive. But thats not what you said you did not say "kill the idea of money." you said "kill money." in any case, its an irrational non solution which tells us everything about your maturity in this. " If its still not clear, please, do ask clarifying questions, ill be happy to share my thoughts. " I don't need any clarification. The meme is stupid, irrational, violent, pointless, and causes serious damage to the ability of people like me to convince average jos to move out of their matrix mind. Your shooting the real effort for evolution in the foot. thanks to stupid memes like this, people imagine stupid cluelss ignorant rebels without a clue when they think of anti capitalsts. Your causing me and everyone whos doing actual work MORE load to carry and more problems to solve. "Remember, we are here for each other, " then grow up and start working the problems as an adult. "not against. I don't care about your experiences with other tzm;ers, I would hope by know that a few bad apples (in your eyes) don't speak for every other apple tree out there. You should know this about me by know. and if there are those that suspect your a troll, well its because you have what some could consider a "fake profile". " thats ludicrous. i live transparently and every day i am out there making a real difference while everyone else pisses it all off. "Sure I wear a mask as mr killmoney, but ppl have met me, I've been on on broadcasts that have aired all over the world revealng my true identity. In fact, you can learn who most of my relatives are, who im married to, and etc, right here on fb, which is far from what one could conclude from your page. Im not saying this is some sort of shown-n-tell contest, but to hope you understand just a little bit when folks don't take you as serious as you claim to be. Dude, I am with you, you can ask james kush, my extension of friendship is the genuine article, so please, let's continue to explore ways on hashing out our differences, and come together for the sake of humanity;past+present+future" I need ADULT allies to facilitate REAL social and evolutionary change. "Kill money" is one more propaganda warfare ignorant social suicide meme which make my life ten times harder. You should have thought this through. Maybe its time to start.

[-] 1 points by zandavorn (18) 2 years ago

Well said. Well said. Seems like someone on here actually wants policy change, rather than attempt to change ideologies. Thanks for giving me hope that humanity still has a chance if we listen to the intelligent among us.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

thank you. visit the wiki and help me this ain't easy and its impossible inside of this trollhatten.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPR3GlpQQJA

I have been active here since the very beginning, and since the very beginning I have been trying to make some core points. These points clearly have not been digested or fully understood by the mob, and so I'm going to try to make a further attempt here again. 1. Merely protesting in the streets will not bring change. In fact merely protesting in the streets is in fact a means to the end of avoiding the real work of a revolution, which consists of the evolutionary solutions, answers, problem solving process, and new political alignment we create. 2. This forum is absolutely disorganized. It won't be read by most people and it won't and can't function as a core organizational system. 3. Back at the very start of this, I petitioned the admin to add multiple sub forums and a wiki. Multiple sub forums were promised but have never arrived. I think that this tells us that the intention actually of this forum is message control and containment. The entire purpose really of this forum has always been to keep us spinning in disorganization. We are hanging out on a forum that expressly exists to actually keep us confused and disorganized. 4. The real work of a revolution isn't going to happen on forums, it needs to happen in a much more organized fashion using collaborative software. 5. The assorted other details about how to collaborate, how to work open source direct democracy, how to focus in on science instead of isms, how to become hyper rational about this, are details which are essential and crucial, without which we can predict the movement to fail. 6. Technically speaking we are not 99 percent, we are one tenth of one percent attempting to represent the 99 percent. Our core mission must be to communicate to and with the 99 percent, and get them to join us. This forum will not accomplish that and neither will any of the other main websites. 7. You can follow other people out to other wikis and other websites, where they will try to get you to get involved with what they want and their program, but frankly speaking, there is no other website and no other operation out there which understands the complexities involved with meaningful organization. In short, everyones being led to get involved here there and everywhere else, scattering the movement in directions which ultimately do not gain us critical mass, criticial momentum, or critical systemic lucidity. 8. I have managed to get a wiki put up and have already put on that wiki evolutionary details which make it more organized than anything else. I can't do this alone. There are 10 or so wikis now out there, most of which were created in response to my pleas for a wiki, and several of which are in domains owned and operated by some corporation, (wikia, etc) And which we can thus assume will simply be closed, shut down, or deleted if they become useful to the movement. 9. Probably at least half of the invites you have to go participate at some other site are people who are scamming everyone to waste time and energy, distort the movement, co opt it, and etc. When you walk off into a closet ask yourself how you know that the closet isn't created by some fed, or by some republican, or by some democrat, in order to sway things in their direction. 10. The only meaningful strategic option we have for real change in this country is to create a new third party, and take every political office in this country. 11. Once that is done, we can have an article 5 convention. If we have an article 5 convention before getting rid of the oligachs, that just opens the genie from the bottle for them to abuse that process with their corruption and evil.

For these reasons, I beg of you to please immediately join me on the wiki. We need to have all of these details and all of these ideas put together in an organized fashion, rather than posted in a long scrawl which will never be read.

http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/THE_99%25_POLITICAL_PARTY

http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page

http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ

http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw

http://www.opensecrets.org/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/our-new-wiki/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

John Bassist A transition plan means we grow our own food, form our own communities, and build new and evolutionary civil infrastructures and transition into possible futures with all of the trappings of Star Trek. A transition plan means localization, tribalization, self sufficiency, and a new kind of super corporation or super community which is self sufficient to build anything anybody wants. Nowhere in any of that is there any "kill."

2 minutes ago · Like

John Bassist We GROW out of money the long hard slog evolutionary way. Not suddenly. Not kill. Not death. Not fight. Not moneywar. We arrive at no money not by putting that in front of us, as a goal, but as an incidental bi product of technological and economic singularity. We do need to end money. But not as adolsecent juvenile delinquint trolls out calling for the DEATH of things... but as agents of evolutionary process who are wisely using the current system plus our new evolutionary strategies until at some future moment money becomes incidentally obsolete. Quit your evil pathetic sin city whining and preaching and GET TO THE WORK for human evolution.

a few seconds ago · Like


"ohn chill out here bro,we are all on the same team. Its clear that there are some communication issues here. I think its clear the kill money project isn't something you've taken the time out to understand," Nor am i going to take any time to understand it, nor will any other reasonable people. Its a wrong and pig headed violent meme. period. "kill." the end. Thats violent. thats not a solution. thats a big frigging extra problem. " so please let's clear the air. Everyone who knows mr killmoney isn't about anything violent, its just my way of bringing mainstream attention to the issue at hand, " Grow up with your communication. Whether you intend it as violent or not it is still violent. you saying you don't intend violent only makes us go.. wow.. this gy is not actually like paying attention to the MEANING of the WORDS hes using. "which is the way the monetary shit-stem has paralyzed humanity. I chose such a vulgar and pornographic meme because I felt it best captures the current crisis in a very simple, direct and catchy phrase." it captures the ignorance, stupidity, lack of real solutions, and arrogant infantile egotism very effectively. " It has proven to be a great icebreaker for starting a conversation of the the monetary shit-stem." great.... you prolly have no idea how many more people it just turns off. " I have never in any of my posts, blogs, or aanywhere in my perspective have suggested that violent actions be taken towards anyone anywhere," sorry, "kill money" is a suggestion of violence. period. Whether you intend it or not thats what the words mean. " no do I personally believe that violence is a solution for any problem. "

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

You don't 'grow' out of using money you dickhead: you stop using it. Just like you don't 'grow' out of drinking alcohol you imbecile: you just stop using it because you know it's bad for you.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

calling me names does not change the factual reality. In truth you are the imbecile and moron if you think we can just plain stop using it. Thats stupid, ignorant, childish temper tantrumming, and its not a problem solving tactic and its simply not going to happen for pretty much everybody back in reality who won't merely stop using money. If you want to get away from money you have to grow up and stop being an ignorant fucktard, and grasp the systemic and complicated issues which will force this to be an evolutionary process.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

Asshole: I already gave you the solution to your problem and you refuse to even talk about it. All you focus on is how much of an imbecile you are instead of focusing on the facts.

Creating your own small self-sufficient community that does not use money does not require the millions of people who do not live in your self-sufficient community to stop using money you fucking idiot. See if you can get this through your fucking thick skull: A small self-sufficient community that does not use money does not NEED or WANT any goods or services outside of its community: ergo... all the rest of you imbeciles can go on using money as much as you want and continue to live a miserable unhappy life and die of your many diseases and addictions to your mass manufactured toxic poisoned products and goods and foodstuffs and beverages... While the self-sufficient community I live does not have any of your mass manufactured shit, and as we are all tanned and fit and healthy and drink pure spring water and healthy unprocessed food and enjoy our life: you shitholes can eat your cheese and die from heart failure early in your sick lives and die from cancer of the colon from eating hamburgers and french fries and slave your lives away for MONEY: while we don't work or slave: instead we play and have FUN all day because we don't allow any corporations or businesses into our self-sufficient community and we have no need or desire for your plastic toys or your mass media crap or all the other millions of consumer goods you buy that you don't need to live a healthy life. All of YOU idiots are welcome to waste your lives hoarding money and spending it and doing nothing but buying and selling shit using money. We will be doing thousands of things that are enjoyable and fun and do not involve buying or selling or money.

That's the difference between my small self-sufficient community and your mass-herd need to conform to how all the other billions of idiots live. Understand yet? Or is your fucking thick skull 100% dead rock?

Try living without coffee and beer and pizza and cheese and meat and TV and your computer and shopping and cars and gasoline and insurance policies and stocks and bonds and taxes and high prices and worrying about money and envying people who have money and working for your boss and having to work for a company that doesn't give a fuck about you and uses you... and your mortgage, and your debts piling up and your lost retirement savings and your pension, and praying you won't be fired and what is left of your life? NOTHING. ZERO. That is how spiritually, morally and ethically empty your life is because you use money. Have a wunnerful life moron.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

i am all for self sufficient communities. which will need to pay land taxes, buy soil, seed, construction materials- in short- which must use the money system.

So once again, you are being an idiot, because instead of viewing it as a process, you are speaking about it as if it can all happen in one instant.

that IS stupid and insane, and exactly the problem with ignorant ideologues trying to solve problems that are over their heads.

[-] 0 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

wrong: the only time your self-sufficient community will work is when you stop using money and cooperate without exchanging stupid fucking pieces of paper. You're just another uncreative unimaginative idiot. The only part of self-sufficiency that works is voluntary cooperation. Doing something for MONEY corrupts your entire community. BY being intelligent you will find out and discover hat 00% of the things you THOUGHT you would need to 'buy' with money from the outside, you don't need at all. You can get some worms and start a worm farm for ZERO MONEY. You can make your own mulch and add worms to it and PRESTO! Instant black gold: soil that is rich and ready for use. You can get seeds from ANYWHERE for almost nothing. Most gardeners and perma-culture and organic farmers will gladly give you some of their seeds for NOTHING, and you will make new allies and frinds as you search for people who are like you and have the same healthy goals you do. You can do your OWN construction right from the beginning and learn many useful building trades and skills which will come in handy later on. You can go to the city dump and find tons and loads of useful materials wasteful consumers have thrown away and get it for NOTHING. You can go dumpster diving and find tons of free stuff that is in perfect working order and almost brand new. You can patrol the curbs and roads regularly to find things which people put out to be hauled away or taken away or used by somebody who can use it . There is an unlimited scope of creativity and innovation if you just BEGIN to do it, and the more you approach your GOAL to become 100% self-sufficient WITHOUT USING MONEY... 40%... 50%... 60%... 70%... 80%...90%...100!! The more independent and free you become.the better you will feel and the healthier you will become. Once you can supply and make your own ethanol and repair your own vehicle needed for heavy transport of materials, and your set up your own machine shop and your own smithy... what happens when you don't need them anymore... eh? All that slave work gives you what? A COPY of the same way you used to live, without exploring your inner self. Now what do you do with your life? You've been brainwashed into working as a SLAVE: gonna keep on slaving away working? WHY? WHAT FOR?... No WORK! But I'm used to being a slave! Then what will you do, eh? No luxury, no snobbery: no work needed to be done: 100% self-sufficient: THEN WHAT?

Before you will EVER be ready to change anything: you must CHANGE YOURSELF. And all of you lazy slobs are to scared and lazy and spoiled rotten to do it. IN order to CREATE a new culture... you must first LEARN to be CREATIVE. IN order to create a culture and community based upon happiness and fun and play... you must first LEARN how to play and have fun. YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO IT YET idiot. You must LEARN how to create your OW#N happiness instead of SUCKING OFF something, instead of SUCKING on something, instead of filling your mouth: fill your hrast and soul and mind and body with new ideas and experiment and explore what it is to be a human being. YOU HAVE NOT DONE THIS: I have, and I found out that anybody can be creative. I found out that creativity is easy if you are happy and energetic and impossible if you are miserable, bored and lazy

The point is when you don't use money: you don't have to pay anybody ANYTHING. You do ALL your OWN work. You don't have paid slaves to do it for you The only thing that your money will be good for is to set UP the basic equipment and materials you will need to begin the formation of your self-sufficient community and that takes intelligent planning and ingenuity and creativity.

[-] 1 points by manbanter (2) 2 years ago

This video shows the world the point

Nerds gather to show their support of the 99%

http://youtu.be/lFaLB8_l0No

[-] -1 points by turak (-812) 2 years ago

It shows your attitude towards the OW movement which is 1% of the people of the world who are against 99% of the people of the world

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

‎"Instead, I have you talking smack about the killmoney perspective," perspective? now your trolling lingo is a whole perspective? " calling it violent and saying other absurd things." there is nothing absurd about pointing out that kill m...See More

3 hours ago · Like

John Bassist

‎"So I'm curious John. What solutions are you presenting?" The list is nearly endless. Geothermal power, localization of economics, permaculture, self sufficient community.. I have real solutions. Most relevant to THIS discussion lets talk...See More

3 hours ago · Like

John Bassist ‎"kill money" is not a transition plan. Its a stupid, evil, violent, pointless, non solution, its an infantile and pathetic and ignorant non solution, its exactly why we can't get scientists involved in your so called movement. Stop being stupid ignorant infantile adolescent trolls and start being a social movement. You can't do both. Choose.

3 hours ago · Like

John Bassist which is it? social movement? or anti capitalism troll cult? You seem to have already unfortunately made up your mind. I don't hang time with trolls people get the idea somehow that i'm one of them... you know... the whole bit about being careful about what your freinds say about you.

3 hours ago · Like

Lorenzo Segarra

John chill out here bro,we are all on the same team. Its clear that there are some communication issues here. I think its clear the kill money project isn't something you've taken the time out to understand, so please let's clear the air. E...See More

2 hours ago · Like

John Bassist

‎"ohn chill out here bro,we are all on the same team. Its clear that there are some communication issues here. I think its clear the kill money project isn't something you've taken the time out to understand," Nor am i going to take any tim...See More

about an hour ago · Like

Andre Burrell No point. Bassist = Paranoid troll with mental issues :-\

I've dealt with him in the Shit's Got to Go group and he's the same way. Just repeats the same thing with no particular reasoning as to why he believes what he does. Just a troll with a fake profile :-\

20 minutes ago · Like

John Bassist i love that its so obvious who the real trolls are. The trolls are the people with no solutions, who are proposing and promulgating social violence, while they merely attack and demean corporatism. I'm the problem solver, and that makes the "kill" meme and you people trolling with it my problem. Andre just another fine example of trapped matrix mind. Projecting your collective shadow at me instead of seeing the simple truth; which is in this case that "kill money" is a wrecklessly infantile meme, which alienates more people than it convinces and which operates in actuality to abso