Forum Post: All of you are missing the point...
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 14, 2011, 12:24 a.m. EST by turak
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This content is user submitted and not an official statement
All of you are haggling about money.
Get rid of it.
Instead of a money economy: based upon corruption, opposition, selfishness and greed: create your own self-sufficient communities and economies based upon cooperation, trust and fun.
If you give someone a million dollars: are you helping them? No. They just gave you some pieces of worthless paper...
If someone wants to help you by giving their time and energy and resources, and sharing what they have with you, and you share your time and energy and help them: neither of you need to exchange paper to do this. Human society functions because it is based upon cooperation.
Instead of a paper economy: create an economy based upon hugs&kisses . Have everyone pay for whatever they receive with hugs and kisses. Do you want to be rich in paper money, or rich in hugs and kisses? Create your own self-sufficient communities based upon gratitude:instead of entitlement... communities based upon generosity and giving instead of selfishness and taking.
You're all missing the point and missing the boat. Let the 1% have all the money in the world: then do not deal with them and don't buy anything they try to sell you and don't use their money. Get rid of money. The 1% will starve to death and die, and all of you 99% will be happy and healthy. You are being suckered into playing their game on their terms. Fighting over who has more or less money does not make you any better than they are. All it does is: lower you down to their level of selfish greed, and the love of money.
You have a choice: you can love money or you can love humans: you can't do both. Wake up.
We really shouldn't blame anyone, there really is no good or bad, our society is just the symtom of a disconnected mind. We have lost our connection with nature, the thing that we truly are, and our creations reflect that, full of fear and suffering, madness. So let's get reconnected, allow everything, love ourselve's as amazing expressions of nature, love everything and be the best expression of our true selves that we can be....
how are you replying to this? Morse code? telepathically? Are you on some sort of electronic device made possible by mankind?
the exit door for jesus freaks is to your RIGHT
Money is only powerful because we have granted our consent to it's power. Those who have the most money thus have the most power, and when individuals lack money, they feel powerless.
You have not 'granted' anyone anything you fucking moronic pompous prig. You have been SUCKERED into it, you've been BRAINWASHED into it. You've been PROGRAMMED FROM BIRTH into it, you've been SOLD into it, you've been FORCED into it, you're been INTIMIDATED into it. You've been given NO OTHER CHOICES but to give into your money culture of greed and dehumanization Because you are an ape and apes like to copy other apes: you've copied the 1%. You want to have what they have., You wan to live like they live. None of you have the intelligence to stop your moronic copying and aping of the top 1%. The reason you feel powerless is because all you morons are far too stupid to realize you HAVE any power.
You need to check out the "Venus Project"... a resource based economy instead of a monetary one.... a world Without Money..... based on humanity.
Ahhhhh..... can we usher this in please... like now? globally....
I checked out the Venus Project: it's a bunch of regurgitated crap. It doesn't even begin to deal with the major myths and fallacies and evils of civilization. You must be in grammar school to be naive enough to swallow that junk. They speak everyone 'enjoying' a high standard of living, and using all the earth's 'resources' to that end. They also speak off humans having a 'right' to all the resources of the earth. This means they are just another exploitation culture. A human culture based upon exploitation of resources is destructive towards the entire earth for a simple reason: This kind of arrogance means that no other living organism on earth has any rights whatsoever except one species: the human sap: the stupid, brainwashed tool-using destructive human ape. What about the rights of all other living creatures on earth, eh? Have you ever heard of anyone demanding rights for them also?
That insane attitude is exactly what has gotten us all into the mess we are in now. You can blame all the stupid human apes who came before us for the polluted, dying earth you are living in now because all of them were mass murderers.
You are living right now in a system based upon mass slaughter, mass genocide and mass extinction of living species. A system that has become so mechanized, so detached from reality, so inhuman, so insane... that if you asked an ordinary consumer who consumes the dead meat of 2-3 chickens a week to go out, catch a living chicken and kill it, cut off her head, disembowel her guts, pluck out her feathers and then eat her: they would vomit in horror at what you are asking them to do to an innocent living creature and refuse to do it... YET... because the mechanized mass slaughterhouses are hidden away from view, and you do not SEE and HEAR what happens when you kill a living creature: you can remain IGNORANT of the horror of shedding blood, and the huge emotional trauma which results from any living person killing another living creature.
Soldiers who are sent into battle and forced to kill people come back internally and spiritually damaged and wounded for life. The most passionate antiwar activists are veterans of war. Your insane spectator culture has replaced the insane killing fields of the Roman Arenas where insane Roman citizens screamed for more blood and more butchery as an entertainment... with video games of abstract images: insane twisted, sick depictions of violence, killing and destruction and hate: all nicely sanitized so the players never feel what it is to actually do violence to another living thing, and they never feel the pain and agony and terror of someone doing violence to you.
Why don't you join? What's your excuse?
Your Idea is cute though
Yeah I'm sure 99% of Americans would love to just give up all their money. Because we're known around the world for being a people that doesn't really care much about money.
Exactly: that is why this thread is so big: every fucking idiot of an American greed merchant believing in the sanctity of MONEY! as their god: is reacting with religious fervor at the possibility of their temples of evil being emptied of sin. As you are too.
Hugs & kisses to you
Keep on fighting: you're on the side that is RIGHT...
But you need to wake up and realize that squabbling about money only lowers you down to their lowest level of greed. FUCK ALL OF THEM. FUCK the rich: use ALL of your resources and money to create your own communities that will EXCLUDE every for-profit venture and business in the world from your society. CLEANSE YOURSELVES of the entire capitalist system and you will not only WIN, you will create a human community an EGALITARIAN INTELLIGENT community based upon intelligent EGALITARIAN COOPERATION that will be a million times better than the mansions of the filthy rich .. AND not only will you succeed: you will have the pleasure of watching the whole capitalist system CRUMBLE AND FALL while you don't do ANYTHING to it except LEAVE THE ENTIRE SYSTEM and let it go to hell which is where it is headed and where it will end up.
But in order to do this you must change your INNER selves first. You're already on the path of doing it: you're already organizing yourselves intelligently WITHOUT any leaders: all you need is more long-range planning and you will be OUT of Liberty Square and in your intelligently PLANNED communities and you will only get better and better and healthier while the rich get sicker and sicker.
You know you are right, eventually. But the peaceful world that you seek can only happen after the historic injustices still present within the human and earth soul are corrected. Try asking the Native Americans, for example, who are suffering right now, to give only hugs and kisses and stop worrying about living on their allotted "reservation". Or try telling that to the Orthodox Jews who still defend their truth amidst the dominance of scientific materialism that would gladly wipe it out. You'll be spit right upon sir.
There are three things required to get lasting PEACE: Truth, Love, and Justice. Omit any of the three and you'll only generate another turn of the wheel....
You're thinking like a mass animal. There is no such thing as Truth, Love or Justice in the world. There is no identical homogeneous mass. You're babbling like an 18th century philosopher.
I'm speaking of practical self-sufficient egalitarian communities without any leaders made up of either 12, 24 or 36 individuals. Once you create your own community and make it as beautiful and flourishing as possible, once you CREATE BEAUTY... then LIVE in the beauty you create, LIVE in your community, work on the land you live on: and don't go worrying about what 6.8 billion other people outside of your community are doing: got that?
Here you say, "there is no such thing as truth," yet you carry on about the existence of universal truth. Which is it asshole? You are nothing but a jive ass bullshit artist. Go live in a cave, your self sufficient community is an impossible proposition and no gives a shit about a misanthropic loser like you.
You quoted me out of context:
I said there is not such thing as Truth, Love or Justice IN THE WORLD
Which is vague, so I'll clarify what I mean to you.
I mean there is no universal truth, love or justice in the hearts and minds of 6-8 billion insane greedy selfish apes like you; there is no truth, love or justice in all human civilization except the Universal truth INDIVIDUALS discover and practice. There will never be a universal truth for the overpopulated mass of billions of people. There will never be a universal love for billions of people, there will never be a universal justice for 6.8 billion people for a simple reason: these 6.8 billion people will never all come together, they will never share anything with each other, they will never learn from each other, they will never become identical mass-manufactured units, they will never become a single homogeneous mass of people.
Humans are genetically designed to function as autonomous individuals, and as social animals in groups no bigger than 12, 24 or 36. You only have one life to live and you cannot develop any close intimacy, or love or discover any truth, or practice or enforce any justice with millions of strangers.
This is why small self-sufficient communities of 12, 24 or 36 people that are egalitarian and have no leaders is the only intelligent answer to global capitalist system and the culture of mindless consumption, waste, pollution and degradation of the environment. Do you understand now?
Or are you a troll?
Wow! This is the first time you actually attempted to explain anything. You say that individuals in isolation from each other will independently arrive at universal truth by developing what you call the sense of wonder. Universal truth is derived from the particular and accidental manifestations of the individual. You attribute this process of distillation to the genetically designed function of human beings as autonomous individuals.
In your defense of infinity, you stress the necessity of no two things being identical. However, you describe the genetically designed function of humans arriving at the universal as being identical in each individual: autonomous individuals arriving at an identical universal truth. If the destination of individuals is identical, then their origin must also be identical. The transformation from the particular to the universal expresses a single totality.
You put a lot of stock in the concept of equality. Equality also carries the implication of sameness of identity; an illusion that exists only in the abstract. Nature exists in a dynamic state of aggressive and passive forces acting upon each other. If you concede to decipher the nature of these forces, you forfeit the infinite. Arrival at universal truth and the infinite are mutually exclusive. Arrival is a termination. When you project your ideas about equality on nature you do so as an act a posteriori.
You are being illogical. Your entire brain is illogical because you are detached from your own body and from the 3-dimensional world you live in.
Most of your sentences do not make any sense.
You are trying to INVENT an excuse so you can deny the existence of UNIVERSAL TRUTHS. Universal truths have no exceptions to them. Because you cannot find anything WRONG in my logical explanation of how the Universe emerged, because you cannot find anything ILLOGICAL in my book:
You are forced into being as illogical and crazy as possible in order to DEFEND against the Universal truths you have read and cannot refute.
First: I am not 'defending' anything. I never 'defend'. I state Universal truths and I explain them logically. All Universal truths are LOGICAL. All LOGIC is Universal. LOGIC is truth... TRUTH is logic. Truth and Logic are the same thing. You cannot be truthful without being logical. You cannot be logical without being truthful
The second you make a mistake in your logic: you start uttering lies. The instant you start uttering lies: you become illogical. That is what all hard SCIENCE is based upon. Logic can be TESTED. Logic can be proven to be true. Illogical assumptions and theories and idea can ALSO be tested, and they can be PROVEN to be untrue. Only when someone finds something which can be tested and nobody can prove it to be untrue: is it taken as scientifically agreed-upon truth of physics. The moment someone finds a way to prove it is untrue, the moment anyone can find an EXCEPTION that proves it is not universally true: then it is no longer a UNIVERSAL TRUTH.
The moment an apple can be tested and not fall to the ground when let go,: then the physical attraction of solid things on earth to the earth is no longer universally true. That has never happened. All apples when let go in midair above the earth fall to the ground.
All things which are illogical are based upon lies. All things which are not true are based upon lies.
There is no 'necessity' of no two things being identical to each other: That is a scientifically proven FACT; not a 'necessity'..
I stress scientifically proven FACTS: because you cannot disprove them. NOBODY CAN DISPROVE A SCIENTIFIC FACT.
That includes idiots like you.
The scientifically proven fact that the sky is blue cannot be disproved. Not by you, not by anyone. Until you get this through your fucking stupid head: you will continue to rail against scientifically proven facts which exist: REGARDLESS of how crazy you happen to be: REGARDLESS of how much you try to deny them. You can insist that he sky is not blue all you fucking want: that does not change the TRUTH: that does not change scientific FACTS. Scientific facts are not subject to personal opinion or debate by imbecil3s like you.
Unless you HUMBLE YOURSELF: and admit these scientific facts are true: you will continue to be a little egotistical snot-nosed, ILLOGICAL, unscientific, imbecile, babbling away and screaming that the sky is not blue, when everyone know it is blue.
The genetically designed function of each species is GENERALLY the same. It is not identically the same.
For instance: the genetic design of snowflakes are generally the same: all snowflakes are hexagonal in structure. USING this general sameness of hexagonal structure of a hexagonal star-shape: The infinite UNIVERSE and Nature can and does create an INFINITE number of unique permutations so that each snowflake ever created on earth is UNIQUELY DIFFERENT and is NOT identical to any other snowflake ever born..
There are damaged snowflakes which have been damaged in their birth so they do not develop as they should: just like there are thalidomide babies born without hand or feet: horrible monstrosities.. due to the cancerous poisons which human civilization has unleashed onto the living earth.
This poisonous destruction of the harmony of the dynamics balances of energy in the Universe is an abomination of Life and how the Universe works and should be wiped out.
Your insane abstract babble is so deranged and crazy:: that other people do not respond to you simply because you are so illogical: you make no sense.
There is no 'destination of individuals'. There is no 'arriving at an identical universal truth' there is no origin of arrival, there is no origin that is identical. There are not passive and aggressive forces in Nature acting upon each. Equality does not im[ply sameness of identity. You're making all of this up in your fucked up brain.
I do not 'put stock' in anything. Equality is not concept. It is how the Universe is designed to function. Nobody can 'concede to decipher' anything. Your words make no semantic sense because you don't know the meanings of the words you use and you do not use them correctly.
In order to make sense: you must first educate yourself and learn how to use words correctly, and you must learn to write English correctly and you must learn how to think logically.
Whatever school you went to did not teach you how to do this. You need to go back to a GOOD school: one that has a GOOD English teacher, who teaches the CORRECT ways of how to write a sentence and how to write a paragraph, and the CORRECT use of words: based upon the CORRECT definition of the world.
The INSTANT you begin to make up your own crazy, imaginary meanings of the words you use: nobody else on earth will be able to understand what the fuck you are babbling about... and what's more... YOU don't understand what YOU are babbling about either.
That's YOUR problem. Nobody else's. Go back to school little boy and learn how to read and write English correctly: and stay off internet forms: you are rotting your brain into total dysfunctional idiocy.
you're an asshole
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Hugs & kisses to you
Someone may need corn and the other may need lumber. What happens when one already has enough corn? They invent the currency and credit.
Tommie: with abundance (150-years ago it took many man-hours to harvest a bushel of corn, nowdays, with modern machinery, it takes very few man-hours to grow/harvest hundreds of bushels of corn and most of that corn is fed to cows & pigs), barter is unnecessary.
Here's a coupla quotes 4 U to think about:
The final step is when the new socialist [communist] society reaches the stage where profit and money disappear. It is through transforming society into a fully productive society, and through reaching in production a level where the material needs of the members of society are satisfied. On that final stage, profit will automatically disappear and there will be no need for money. -- MUAMMAR AL QATHAFI, The Green Book: The Solution of the Economic Problem, pt. 2 (1977)
Finally, when all capital, all production, and all exchange are concentrated in the hands of the people, private ownership will automatically have ceased to exist, money will have become superfluous, and production will have so increased and men will be so much changed that the last forms of the old social relations will also be able to fall away. -- F. ENGELS, Principals of Communism, 1847
What exactly are you getting at?
Did U flunk reading comprehension?
Did you flunk Sociology and common sense?
Did all these ppl who believe in eliminating money flunk sociology & common sense http://666ismoney.com/MoneyQuotes.html ?
Rationalizing and being rational are two different things. When Dante wrote The Inferno he included popes and bishops in hell because he was angry with them. There is no truth or realism in such ideologies based on anger.
Hell, I'd include popes & bishops along with a majority of "Christians" in Hell too. Jesus (if he existed) was the Logos (John 1:1) or logic of god: if it's not logical (like "Saint" Paul), it's not of god.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/666_is_money/3135898114/
Money actually reduces theft and murder by substituting bartering. However, it should be held as high as it is.
If labor is unneccessary, then so too are people.
What??
Modern machinery should make life easier for us . . . fewer ppl work on farms, few ppl in U$A work at "necessary" jobs yet we are slaves to bankers, 30-year mortgages + interest for cheap sheet-rock & 2x4 homes. Abundance makes barter, hoarding & money, unnecessary.
'may need'?
get off this thread: your bullshit is pathetic; You children should be in bed now. If your parents find out what you've been posting they will take away your computer privileges
I'm trying to have a serious discussion here.
You want to have a serious discussion?
Then answer my questions and I'll answer yours.
If you refuse to answer my questions: then you are not serious about having any discussion whatsoever.
Understand? Either you answer me or I won't answer you. That is what a serious discussion is made of: people answering each others questions and statements.
When you do NOT answer my questions: if you avoid answering me then I will know you are a pathetic bullshitter and I will ignore you from that point on: understand?
Ok. Go.
How old are you?
I'm 41. What made you pick such a cliche question?
Your last post is missing a reply button: so I'm responding to you via this one: Ask me anything you want and I'll answer you tomorrow: Have to go now.
Hugs & kisses to you
Because it is easy to lie over internet forums and millions of 10-yr old children say they're 41 years old... like you for instance. If you're 41 years old: then you must have gone to school and graduated. What did you learn in school? Anything worth knowing?
I'm left-handed, so I like creativity. The human brain's infinite capacity amazes me. I find it fun to obtain information in different ways. If you don't mind, let's try a parable: A man owns a farm and tells his son to collect the wheat. The son goes to the wheat and sees weevils had gotten to it, so he sets the field on fire. Some of the corn catches and then the fire dies. Meanwhile, the man tells his daughter to bring water to the pigs. She says no and complains of the hot weather. She quickly concedes and goes to the well, fearing no dinner as punishment for disobedience. One of the pigs is pregnant and sick. Normally, she would remove it from the pen to keep the others safe but it was too heavy and wouldn't move. She decides to lead the others to an unoccupied pen. Over half of the pigs break loose and get away. The rest, except the one, go in. Both the son and the daughter return to their father and explain what happened. Along comes the mother, furious about her hat being scorched and herself being trampled by pigs. Which one does the father strike?
Brief summary: Math. Real history. Discerning fact from fiction. C++ programming, political science, psychology, physics, quantum theory, looking at all sides of a discussion, and ethics.
He kicks you in your crotch so you have to go to the hospital for wasting my time reading your shit
@Tommie: The father admits that he's not a very good farmer or teacher and failed to teach either of his children how to manage the farm in bite-sized, sustainable bits. Perhaps the farmer should have thought about how large his pig pen had gotten, or the fact that he should be planting something else that wouldn't be eaten by weevils. His job now is to remediate the problems and admit guilt, rather than by punishing one party or the other.
Awh, you wise guy!
It's funny that turak condescends to everybody calling them babbling children, yet he appears not to have a wit of maturity, empathy or comprehension ability . . .
It's a shame, because some of his polemics are decent. If only he learned how to receive criticism.
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Hugs & kisses to you
Hugs & kisses to you
Hugs & kisses to you
Hugs and kisses can only be done in person. Until you learn this you will continue to be an antisocial freak who hugs nobody.
How the hell did this post get so big?!
Because it is the only intelligent solution to all of your woes. Because it is the most revolutionary idea presented on this forum. Because it draws more attention and reaches more people than your totally stupid idea of occupying a street as a weak, flaccid, too little too late complaint about being successfully robbed of all your homes and money. Because it strikes at the root of your problems: not at the symptom of your problems.
I actually love the idea. However, what the occupiers are doing, Turak, is starting the ball rolling. Apparently it's easier to work together against something than it is for something...but the "for something" is next, and your idea could be part of it. Anything can be used as a medium of exchange; but to be useful, it must represent real value, and the medium itself should never become a commodity. Too many hugs and kisses might present problems, but the people in the community can decide what the medium is. One town created its own money for trading within the town.
What's stopping you?
I'll tell you what';s stopping you: yourself.
You're a joiner: a conformist: one of the millions of conformist imbeciles on the internet today. Your post is worthless trash. The idea that money is a 'real value' already exposes how brainwashed you are. The idea that you must replace money with something else of identical nature exposes the fact that you haven't even gotten it into your fucking think head that money has NO value in and of itself. And what is even MORE stupid is your idea of there being an excess of hugs and kisses. You are so fucking STUPID you think you can accumulate them like money. Now fuck off: your kind is in the MILLIONS on the internet and all of you are incapable of mature discussion.
What I meant by the medium of exchange should not become a commodity presupposed that it has no instrinsic value in and of itself, but only as it represents something of value. I also was not referring to accumulating hugs and kisses, but only that some people might abuse each other in the hugging and kissing. It has been known to lead to unwanted actions occasionally. I am a bit surprised at your irate response to what I thought was an interested response to your statement. I happen to live in a perfectly good bubble of my own, but only because the system did work while I was in the workforce. I am not stupid, nor brainwashed, although I admit I didn't start questioning all of the "input" of our society and education system until about twenty years ago. If you are such a brilliant, capable thinker, I can't help but wonder why you resort to namecalling, presuppositions about people based on zero information, and useless words like "fuck", "stupid" really have no meaning within this context.
You are brainwashed. Your idea that hugs and kisses might be bad for you is so filled with shit there are no words to describe how sick your statement is because you are making things up in your head. Whenever anybody begins a statement with 'It has been known" you can rest assured that whatever comes after those words is complete and utter BULLSHIT.
Get this through your head: money does not represent value unless you value dead things more than you value living things: which is why all people who love money and hoard it are miserable scum. If you 'value' dead things more than you value Life itself then kill yourself and be done with it: then you will attain the highest 'value' which you will die by.
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trolls and assholes are not tolerated here on my thread: fuck off and begone
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wrong you fucking freak: self-sufficient communities are based upon EQUALITY: no leaders, no followers, and no assholes: just independent individuals voluntarily and intelligently cooperating between each other.
You see, you mental midget: you have no brain: you can't even IMAGINE anything that does not already exist: This kind of community has never been done before.
I don't imagine it's very nice, but when you run into an idiot like turdak, I it's just so fun to take a swing and then watch em froth.
On the contrary: it is you who are the idiots. I am by far more capable of logic, more intelligent, and more far-seeing than any of your bird-brained imbeciles.
Gee, for someone who wants hugs and kisses to be the medium of exchange, you seem to be awfully angry. Insults are a detriment to understanding. Another aspect of the world I would like to see is for everyone to be non-judgmental. It's easier to work together if we don't make judgments about each other. The only judgment I am entitled to make is whether or not I like something.
WRONG: Your culture have created millions of spoiled babies like you who are non-judgmental about EVERYTHING> Because none of you ever developed your critical thinking skills: all of you are brainless idiots. It is easier to work together when you ARE judgmental to the MAX and criticize everyone including yourself. IN order to develop any critical ability you must first practice on criticizing yourself: none of you idiots have been taught to do that.
Your statement reveals that you're one of the many millions and millions of loveless babies, who have been frozen in a state of infantile imbecility, still searching for your mommy's tit and your mommy's love.
What you little worthless paranoid immature babies will never realize is that in order to create a self-sufficient community that is not based upon money... it takes a mature adult who has already HAD a full childhood and is not looking to live like a spoiled child and be coddled and protected from the harsh realities of the world around you.
I do not consider being critical and objective about one's own actions and those of others as making a judgment -- the only way we grow and learn is to be objective. I consider a judgment to be an opinion, which is based upon a personal perspective, and usually labels something as "good" or "bad". This is semantics, perhaps, but words do have power All of that aside, you clearly have a vision of a world that requires no medium of exchange to get shelter, food, etc. I would rather you use this space to draw that picture for the rest of us; that is what visionaries do.
You're an armchair imbecile: there are millions of them on the internet: exactly like you. In fact they are identical to you and you are identical to them: spewing drivel and never noticing that all of you spew the exact same bullshit.
In order to live: you need to get rid of your objectivity crap and get INVOLVED in LIFE. Yo9u have never been critical of anything in your entire fucking life and you have never judged anything in your entire fucking life. GOOD and evil are not labels: total fucking moron. They exist in the actual world. Dick Cheney is an evil human being you dumb fucking moron. People who are mass murderers and killers are evil you fucking imbecile. If you do not see this as being evil:, then you should be the first to be butchered and killed. While your guts are spilling out on the floor and you're bleeding to death then you can contemplate the error of your fucking idea that there is no evil in this world and that your being killed with a machete is just a matter of semantics..
Force Change, Boycott Capitalism
We know what the problem is, let us fix it and move forward together.
When you look at a republican or democrat, congress or FDA official, Judges and Justice Department, you see criminals.
Our corruption dates back many years to when those, who in trying to preserve slavery, had to find new ways to preserve it and so created a scientific and advanced form of slavery.
Only two components were required -- the illusion of freedom & choice and the taking away of the freedom to live off the land.
This is how to get people to submit themselves to exploitation, mind numbing or degrading work, fool and oppress them into it.
Our current system is rooted in corruption and every attempt in preserving it involves manipulating human thought and turning people against one another.
In America the population has been transformed into two major voting groups but they only have one choice.
They had been distracted up until now with television and American culture which prospered through the oppression of other nations.
Americans allowed themselves to be fooled into using their military and economic dominance to seize resources of other nations and create expanding markets for American profiteers.
Now that technology, competition and conscience have evolved Americans are realizing that our current system of government is damaging and unsustainable.
Our government officials have allowed private profits and personal benefits to influence decisions that affect the health and well-being of people all over the planet, not just in America... how much longer will we allow them to rule over us??
Occupy Washington and demand that government officials resign their posts.
We will setup new online elections with a verification system that will allow us to see our votes after we cast them, put our new officials in office and work toward rebuilding our country and our world.
Pass this message along to any and everyone, we already occupy the world, unite.
Occupy Washington, Boycott Capitalism, Force Change --
http://wesower.org
dream on, baby. Fighting the system is a waste of time. Self-sufficient communities that don't use money is the answer: not replacing one bunch of corrupt politicians with another bunch of corrupt professional liars
Your comment is stupid because you are a superficial imbecile.
I do not tolerate idiots and immature children coming onto a mature serious forum with their stupid useless crap. your comment is a worthless piece of shit: now fuck off.
So, you mean you aren't tolerated on your thread? Wow, that's gotta be embarrassing.
No: I mean this is my thread and I don't tolerate immature asshole like you on it. Can you read? Or are you still in grammar school?
Funny you should mention grammar school, because when stating you "don't tolerate immature asshole like you" it should be "assholes" for your sentence to be correct.
Also, I can obviously read, otherwise I wouldn't be able to continually respond intelligently to your statements, and your questions that have obvious answers.
You haven't said anything intelligent yet: You're the 2nd asshole reduced to grammar police. That is the lowest level of internet bullshit on the internet. Welcome to the bottom of the barrel moron.
You're the one who brought up grammar, not me. So, please don't be stupid and say that it was me who started that.
stop letting trolls pis you off. thats the only position they have, to piss you off.
Correct.... BUT: if you don't kick the ass of every troll who comes onto this thread it will be drowned by countless posts that destroy the integrity of the issue I raised. I kick the ass of every troll who comes here and all of them have been kicked OFF of this thread because of it.
UNDERSTAND THIS: If you don't have the guts to stand up to trolls and all the naysayers and assholes that are on the internet in the millions: they will win every time. The majority of morons who believe that their fucking numbers make them right is being proven WRONG on this thread by ME. I take on every motherfucker who wants to troll on this thread and I kick their sorry miserable asses until they LEAVE. and don't come back, understand?
One person who stands up for what is right can beat 1,000 assholes EASILY.
Yes, because you have destroyed me SOOOOOOO bad on every comment. Dude, pull your head out. It's embarrassing to the human race.
Yes I have: because you have nothing to say in your defense.
Except your fucking bloated ego.
Can't reply to your last post, so I'm replying with this. These are some of the things I tried to discuss.
Wow. Socialism. Except you forget one thing. Human greed. There will always be a free rider that breaks the system.
Actually, I believe in proposing real policy change. Like ending foreign aid. Ending farm subsidies that offset each other. Reducing the number of military bases around the world. Reducing nuclear weapon stockpiles. REAL POLICY. What you are arguing is socialism. Please read, "The Communist Manifesto" by Karl Marx. Greed is about power; not money. Money is one way to gain power. Get rid of money. Okay. We go back to the bartering system. You say everyone lives in a world where everyone helps everyone. Okay. What happens when one person refuses to help others, but asks others to help them? It's called the free-rider problem in political science. Look it up.
So, whatever dude. I've tried to be pretty civil, but as per the usual keyboard warriors, you have been incapable of doing anything other than attempting to incite anger and embellish your intelligence.
Also, did you actually read my post. There are actually several sentences, after the uhm, so I did actually write more, but whatever.
You are very badly misinformed: like all Americans, you've been sucking on free propaganda. what you fail to understand is that the voting public has zero power period. Not now: not ever. PERIOD None of you have any power or control over any policy decision on of your govt PERIOD. And you will never get any control over your govt because your corrupt politician and your govt runs on trillions of dollars. And the banks and the people who own them have nearly all the money and they are creating more and more money by the corrupt system of fractional banking every day.
The answer to all your problems is to DE-CENTRALIZE ALL POWER... and get rid of money. In these two steps: you cure and fix every single problem you have now. How to de-centralize all that federal and state and county and city govt power? How to get rid of the huge centralized monopolies of the oil industry, the agri-business industry, the pharmaceutical industry, etc? Stop buying from them. You the people are the engine which they feed off and profit from. If you become a small self-sufficient community of EQUALS that does not use money: then NOBODY can control or manipulate you. Remember this: NO LEADERS!~ NO POLITICIANS, NO BOSSES. Do you have the guts to stand up and be an independent individual? Or are you a fucking sheep who needs a herd of millions of other sheep to hide in? If you are intelligent you will create your own small community: if you're a herd animal like all the other brainless jackasses you will continue to be a sucker.
Uhmmmmm. I tried to have a conversation and your response was to insult my intelligence. If you would like, I can point out some other comments on this thread, that you have made in response to mine. In fact I think I can post the entirety of the conversations we've had. You'll find that you are the one that refuses to carry on a real discussion. Now, I just find it entertaining to make you look stupid, although you don't need my help, because everything you post ends up showing your incompetence.
Haven't you left yet? You still haven't said anything: get lost. The only time you can be insulted is when the insult is TRUE. Or do you want to stick around and open your mouth and remove all doubt?
I mean: the intelligence of posting "Uhmmmmm" on this thread and then saying nothing after that... and you STILL don't realize how fucking big of a moron you are? JESUS CHRIST... The stupidity of the human species continues to amaze me.
Thanks, it's a good reminder.
Turak is awesome! haha Please insult me too!
stop trolling
You read this, and think I'm the troll? Really?
debating how one argues rather than taking on their point, yeah.
Actually, I tried this at one point. He insulted me and ignored everything I said. So, I choose to do this. His topic is fairly trollish though.
It is not an idea: It is a practical solution. It will be done successfully. It can be done easily. It will spread like wildfire throughout the entire world a million times more effectively than you envy of the rich who robbed you.
Olancho is not "cute" but it is spectacular! Embrace change.
http://www.themultitude.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=348
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Republic-of-Olancho/149833091753264
www.republicofolancho.com
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once the population is fed
there are still excess resources to be used for ambitions projects
but those excess resources are finite
Wrong. The population does not need to be fed food. People need to be educated and de-programmed of their greed, selfishness, laziness, passivity and misperceptions of the actual Universe they exist in.
first the hungry must eat
Wrong: first the hungry must be given what they truly crave: which is equality, sharing and fun and play and happiness and beauty. Not ugliness, slavery, drudgery and degradation and money.
Yeah, I choose equality over continuing to live. Truly genius. Maybe you should look up Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
Maslow is a fucking bullshitting IMBECILE, and so are you for taking his word for something you have never tried, never tested and cannot say from experience whether he is right or wrong. I HAVE tested my ideas and they WORK.
So you've tried equality, but not food? How are you still alive?
I know what I'm talking about and you don't. One thing is certain: I wiil not tell you anything. Go eat your meat and cheese and shit and die.
You realize insults don't help your case, right?
it took you one week to come up with THAT? get this trhough your FUCKING hit filled brain:
I am NOT selling you anything. In fact it is freaks like you I want to get RID of on this forum. It is your kind of filth that buys lies and bullshit and refuses to search for the TRUTH. Do you understand? get LOST. You already ARE lost, now go fucking wander around your meaningless aimless life somwhere else.
Sorry, that I have a life, and choose not to check this forum everyday. Duh, you're not selling anything, but you are trying to convince everyone to get rid of money and live in self-sustaining communities. Not that I'm necessarily opposed to the idea, I would just like to hear your theory on how you get this idea adopted on mass scale. So far, I have heard absolutely nothing that would be able to explain. Of course we can each individually choose to grow our own food, quit paying taxes, be nomads, hunt, fish, but humans don't accept change well. You can say "live in a self-sufficient community," but because the state is considered the unitary actor on the international level, they have the right to collect taxes and buy/sell land as commodities. Therefore, we pay property taxes. To live in self-sustaining communities you would have to become a nomad, which is unfortunate, but as long as there is government that has power given to them by the people, this is the way of things.
I am not trying to convince anyone: I'm TELLING you how you can solve your problems. This comes from me having a brain that works and you having no brains at all. You ASK for people to GIVE you the ANSWERS to YOUR problems. I don't ask anyone to solve my problems for me. Guess what:.. I don't know what your problems are and I don't care. I am in the process of creating a self-sufficient community for MYSELF: not for the masses of sheep. I am NOT trying to get self-sufficient communities adopted on a mass scale: got that? It would be nice but I'm practical. I prefer working to just create one community and live in it: a very achievable goal.
YOU are not a prospective member of any self-sufficient community so you can go fuck yourself. Your inventing imaginary excuses and envisaging failure already exposes that you are a negative program. Do you know what a negative program is? It's a program that whatever you put into it, it spits out: negative-negative-negative. You're not a human being. You're a machine: now fuck off and don't come back.
Wow, genius reply. You get way too offended by things that are completely inoffensive and then seem to believe that you should try to make everyone feel stupid (although you fail at it). Great. Make yourself a self-sufficient community. You just explained that the entire post you have made serves no purpose, because you don't care if other people adopt your idiotic idea.
Before I go, just one question, in what area of the world do you live? Is it actually Canada? Good luck being a nomad without money, growing your own food in a country that has soil that is mostly incapable of growing a variety of crops. I hope you have a good gun to kill all the animals you're going to eat. You better bring a knife to skin the little guys (big guys if you're actually able to kill bears, moose, or elk).
The more you come back: the more you expose yourself: Little children should NOT falsify their identity: pretending to be an adult is a crime for young children. You are a little criminal. The point is you have no reason for being here except your usual practice of being an asshole trolling the internet and spewing your filth everywhere you can. If you think the idea is idiotic then why are you asking questions about it? You contradict yourself at every juncture and every response you INVENT contradicts another response you INVENT because you are a congenital LIAR. You are an offensive little jerk who does not know how to be an adult. First you say that you're not opposed to the idea then you say the idea is idiotic. You are such a congenital filthy liar you don't believe anything anyone tells you. You think I'm lying when I tell you I live in Canada. If I told you that the sky is blue, you would also believe I was lying, and if someone forced you to go outside and look at the sky and prove to you that the sky is blue you would STILL be convinced that the sky is not blue. That is how sick and diseased you are.
Second: where did you get the insane assumption that a self-sufficient community is nomadic? I'll tell you where: from falsifying your identity 20 times in numerous post hiding your stinking lying persona behind multiple handles and failing reading comprehension..
Little children who ask question of adults should not be on this forum unless they confess the truth: how old ARE you... 6? 8? Your posts do not make any sense to adults. You keep on screaming for answers to be given o you. I am telling you that you need to find your own answers. Little babies need to grow up before they come onto adult forums. Now fuck off and get lost.
Abolishing money is The Way to go. Half the ppl in U$A work at unnecessary jobs: cashier, insurance, real estate, sales, advertising, bank, stock exchange. Interest (30-year mortgages) is slavery. Here's a bunch of quotes by famous ppl who believed in eliminating money:
http://666ismoney.com/MoneyQuotes.html
One person out of 500 agrees with me... Good to know.
I feel the same way turak, very sad. It's like what kind of revolution is this?! Their demands are soooo wimpy and ineffective: Babylon's falling and they're putting fingers in the dike.
(Peak oil, 7-billion ppl on earth, funny money wall street games, global warming . . . hello, anybody there?)
2 people out of 1,000 agree with me: the average rate of theintelligent individualist against the mindless herd.
BUT.... you are not intelligent enough because if you were, you would seek out people like me and we could begin a self-sufficient community and not be forced to live any longer inside a system we both despise and hate.
Time to fight or flee? Either way: be prepared! My goal is to get outta Babylon and move to a sustainable situation (probably Oregon or Northern California near Chico), grow a garden, raise chickens & goats. Mid-west would be best but I like mountains. Australia, New Zealand and a few South American nations would be better than U$A but I can't afford the former and wouldn't feel assimilated in S. America. There are quite a few who see the signs of the times (especially peak oil) and are planning sustainability. Check out this website: http://www.theoildrum.com/
Wrong: you're repeating the stupidest stone age system of ecological destruction on earth. You're regressing to the stupidest form of civilized existence there is. Before you create a better way of life you need to work on YOURSELF first. You need to create a better YOU before you can create a better environment for yourself.
How do U know I'm not perfect?, lol. I met someone at the Burning Man festival a coupla years ago that told me she was on a City Committee for sustainability in Salem, OR. Seems that ppl in Oregon see the severity of the situation the world is in.
You're sick. Until you understand that the culture of self-immolation is insane you will continue to be a freaked out ape: recreating the burning apes of Africa who were burned by volcanic explosions hitting them in the face for 25 million years.
I'm not sure if that would work in a nation of 300million people. I think you need some kind of formal middle man process.
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In all honesty, how can one function without an economy system? I'm not in favor of greed or hogging money, or making money from the downfall of others, but I believe you need some sort of currency to function.
http://www.easymuaythai.com/
Sigh: of course you can't see anything but what is in front of your eyes. You're not creative. You have no imagination. You can't visualize anything which does not already exist. Civilization needs to be dissolved. Taken apart. Not piled up.
What is the earliest memory you have? You don't remember your own past. You don't remember what you once were before you were programmed and brainwashed to act-think-behave and peak and write like everybody else.
Stop thinking of humanity as some imaginary mass. Deal with your own life where you live and stop worrying about what everybody else is doing. Once you don't give a fuck what anyone else does or thinks: you will be on your way to developing yourself as an individual with an individual personality and and individual set of goals. The more self-sufficient you become the less you need to worry about other people.
Humans have only one natural state. living in the midst of living creatures, plants, trees and organisms: not living inside concrete bunkers in death-zones where is no Nature. The computer is the most anti-social device ever invented. It wastes more time than any device ever invented.
IN order to deprogram yourself of the brainwashing you have been implanted with: you need to get OUT OF civilization and look at it from the OUTSIDE looking IN.
Founding your own self-sufficient society and community means you MUST! create everything you want BY YOURSELF: without any help from the outside. This means that you MUST become CREATIVE. You MUST become able to CREATE.
All of you sad sorry drones have never CREATED anything. The human animal has an INTRINSIC ability to be infinitely creative. You were BORN with this ability. YOU NEVER USED IT: because you were set in front of a 2-dimensional screen that made your mind go BLANK from the first day your mommy didn't want to bother with raising you.
Oops. You have to learn how to be creative. OOOPS. Consumers like you do not create anything. OOOPS. You don't want to look at this fact. OOOPS. You want to bring up a million red herrings to avoid the fat that you are not using your human potential to be creative. OOOPS.
Well that's not my fucking problem.
I am creative and I can create what I WANT to create because I can VISUALIZE it, and also I have LIVED that visualization and I KNOW I CAN DO IT before I even begin to do it.
You don't know if you can do ANYTHING. You have no confidence in your own ability to be creative and in yourself as a creative human being who is not supposed to live inside an artificial womb cut off from NATURE.
I KNOW this is a fact. You don't.
I can't help or teach or enlighten anyone over an internet form> All the words I post comes back: 'does not compute' 'i don't unnerstand 'I disagree'
Well: all of you who disagree and can't see and don't unnerstan can go fuck yourselves for all I care because I don't give a shit about what other people think or do: I care about what I can do and what I WILL do and what I AM doing.
Creating my own self-sufficient community is easy: All I need is to find people who like to have fun. I will NEVER find anyone over this internet shit crock of a propaganda machine who likes to have fun. YOU don't like to have fun. You're fucking BORING TO TALK TO; never mind know personally.
Until you realize that I know WAY more about life than you do: until you realize that what I say is logical: until you realize that what you say is ILLOGICAL: until you realize that anything that is illogical is NOT TRUE and everything that is logical is TRUE: you will never become able to develop your intrinsic creative abilities and become an independent self-sufficient human being.
You don't NEED 9/10ths of the food you eat to live. You EAT TO FUCKING MUCH FOOD. You're a brainwashed CONSUMER who EATS TOO MUCH SHIT. You have no SELF-DISCIPLINE. You can't even get rid of the bad habits and addictions you KNOW are bad. You don't even want to look at your own life and your own self. If you did: you wouldn't be here on this forum.
A well thought out post. Most people are so brainwashed by what they have been lead to believe is "normal" that anything else seems weird and imaginative.
Thanks from Clive @ http://easydiablo3.com/.
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You all look like retards
You can see me? What are you: a retard?
Here is a link to an interview relating to currency that may be of interest to some of you.
http://worldwidetippingpoint.com/2011/11/a-tipping-point-in-the-world-of-finance-david-martin/
Not really. Getting rid of using money is simpler, more practical and better.
Timothy Leary invited people to “Tune in, turn on and drop out.” His idea was that, even though we lived in the American society of the 1960s, we didn't have to be an active part in it.
The fact is that the only way we'll be able to cure the unbalance of society will be to throw off the very ideas that made the society what it is today. We have to restructure our thinking and see value in other things. And that will be very difficult for a lot of people. I have a friend who, no matter how I tried to explain it to her, she could not wrap her head around the idea of life without money and possessions.
Realistically, you're not going to get a lot of people to do that, but I will point out that, at least for many years, the Anabaptist sects here in the US and other countries did a pretty good job of ignoring the "temptations" of Western Culture.
Admittedly, my concept is extreme and I understand how a lot of people would be uncomfortable with it, but most of the population of the world lived quite well without consumerism, capitalism and materialism for much longer than we have lived with it, so it can, indeed, work.
I think that, if we can't persuade the nation to do it, we need to simply do it ourselves -- become self-sufficient, gather together with those who think alike, and set up our own subculture within the other. The Anabaptists aren't the only ones to do this, you know. There are several subgroups who have done so. There are quite a few self-sufficient homesteaders and other groups who have set up their own standards and live by their own rules, at least as far as their economy goes. Think about the community dollars movement as a beginning structure and build it from there. In fact, as I have stated in another tread here, such a concept works best in a small community. One of the problems I see is that government simply cannot work on the level that we have been trying to make it work all these years. No government can be responsible toward or responsive to the people unless they who govern can be in direct contact with the people they govern. When was the last time you were able to call up your representative – even on the state level – and have a conversation with her or him?
So, while I hope we actually do affect change in the society, I don't believe it will be a huge one. If we truly want to have an entirely different way of life, we can – we just have to discard that which we have been living and be willing to make the sacrifices necessary to create a new one.
Will there be interaction with the old one? Of course! Unless someone finds an island somewhere outside of national waters. But just because you go to a football stadium, it doesn't mean you have to play the game.
Now THERE is mature comment!@ It warms my heart to read your sensible post. You probably already know about the Ithaca Dollar in upper New York and how successful it's been for years now.
The basic logic of small self-sufficient communities is economically sound because they work by the 'oasis' principle of funneling all the resources and labor and wealth back into the community... as opposed to all the money and wealth and labor being sucked OUT of the community and ultimately ending up in the off-shore secret bank accounts of corporate robber barons and international corporations.
The REAL issue is only very few people in America are enlightened enough and educated enough and progressive enough to actually do it.... The OW movement is a new phenomenon, and I'm trying to direct all their cooperative energy into building for the future: not setting up tents in Liberty square. Setting up permanent self-sufficient communities that work and flourish is a much more intelligent use of all this energy that is now being revealed.
And I thik that is exactly where we need to go -- I applaud your efforts and I'm trying to do the same thing here where I live.
Thanks for the compliment -- you're very kind.
Where do you live?...let me guess, California?
Where I live, like the rest of my personal life, is none of your business, but just so you know, I do not live in california, never have, and ahve been there only once, in 1975, when I touched over the border into Needles, just to say I'd been in the hottest place in America.
You assume you know everything -- not only about issues and ideas, but about people. I submit that you are not omniscient, nor are you omnipotent.
Your failure to understand that is the reason you neither grow nor learn, but merely stagnate in your own disgust for all things contrary to your way of thinking.
Craigslist has a barter system, perhaps we could use this system in other places.
Try Freecycle.org -- it's a barter site. Actually there are quite a few of them on the internet. Just do a search for them.
As far as doing it within a community -- it's really a very easy economy to set up if you think about it.
You're thinking like a mass animal you expect to live in a mass of anonymous millions you have never lived in a small self-sufficient community, so you can't even imagine what that entails. By changing your life into living as a self-sufficient individual in a small community of equals who are also self-sufficient: your entire life changes. Before you can even imagine what it means to be self-sufficient, you must first cleanse yourself of all the dependencies and addictions to your mass culture of consumerism. Only when you stop buying and selling can you ever become self-sufficient, and you're not prepared to do this. That is why your comment is totally out of context.
That's funny -- I don't ever remember meeting you, let alone getting to know you well enough that you would know these things about me.
Therefore, I have to deduce that you're simply imposing your own failings onto me in an effort to validate them in yourself.
In the future, I would ask that you do not, in any way, imagine that you know me well enough to tell me what I am able or unable to do, and certainly, do not try to tell me what I have done or not done in my lifetime.
it shows nothing more than your ignorance and your bigotry.
Thanks for the comment though.
I notice that you have not denied a single thing I said of you, so I will assume that I am right and I hit the nail right on the head...
Obviously if anything I had said was incorrect you would have corrected me and told me I am wrong... But you didn't do that.
Or possibly I simply didn't think it was either worth replying to or none of your business. For your information, not only I ahve I lived cmpletely self-sufficently, I was fully traing in jungle survival techniques, and lived that way for much of three years while in the military. More recently, I have lived self-sufficiently on a small farm in Ohio where I grew my own food, pumped my own water, cut my own firewood, and even made my own clothing. As far as "cleansing myself" of my tendencies for buying things, eactly how do you know I ahve these tendencies? From where do you get your information? In fact, I long ago "cleansed" myself of being a consumer ofr consumption's sake and buy now only those items I need for my life such as food, clothing, bsic transportation (for when I cannot walk or ride my bicycle) and paying for the unavoidable necessities of life. You will doubtless point out that I ahve a coputer and I shall,m in turn, point out that I do research and am a writer -- yes professional and, yes, regularly published -- and this is a tool of my work, not a toy and certainly not a luxury.
Of course, because it doesn't suit your purposes, you'll deny that I did any of this even though you have never met me and know nothing at all about me.
Now, a bit of observational supposition on my part, since you ahve opened the door:
With the vehemence and anger of your replies and your readiness to turn on even though who support some of your points, plus the fact that you seem to need to insult those who disagree with you, I would feel rather safe in saying that you are an angry white man who feels disenfranchised, ignored and more-or-less sidelined in the greater scheme of thigns. I would further surmise that you are not particulary able to discuss an issue without resorting to personal insults and epithets when soemone brings up a point for which you have no reply.
As far as waking people up, you fail. In hurling curses, insults and other offensive language at them, all you do is drive them away from you and your ideas. You ahve some good thoughts, but your inability to discuss anything that runs counter to the way you think shows that you simply do not ahve the braodness of mind, nor the flexibility of will to listen to the good ideas of others, evaluated them, and, when applicable, incorporate them into your own philosophy.
That disappoints me.
I apologize. Accidentally I posted a response to you that was meant for someone else. I'm sorry... how I made such a mistake I don't know. I made a real blunder. My response to your post had nothing to do with what you wrote at all. In fact you're the only person on this forum who I've corresponded with on this forum who, as I now found out, has practical experience about self-sufficiency. When I found out my mistake by going back to see what I was responding to and found your entirely reasonable intelligent post, I felt awful. Boy, did I mess up. From what you wrote it sounds like you're someone I'd really like to get to know.
I'm a writer also among other things, but not for profit. I'm self-employed like you and I use my truck as little as possible and use my bicycle for doing chores and estimates. Can you forgive me my mistake?
No problem. I appreciate your honesty and your apology. I, in turn, apologize for some of the things I said.
Thanks for your thoughts. They do make a lot of sense.
Take care.
Don't go yet. We have many things in common and there's so much I want to ask you . Hello.. are you still here?
I'm still here, turak.Just didn't get a chance to get on today. I'm glad to talk with you anytime.
I've been thinking about what governs me. The thirst for money? No. Love for the People? And not it's. The desire for power? It's do not need me at all! What need me? Truth and Fairness.
Long ago, Peretyatkov, I learned that nearly every answer I needed (as pertaining to myself, who I am, what I wanted, etc) was already inside me. All I had to do was to release myself from the bonds of the expectations of others and allow those answers to come through.
Yes, that sounds really metaphyisical, but at least for me, it was true.
That is the question which you must ANSWER YOURSELF
This is what you stupid spoiled babies need to understand. Expecting other people to answer questions FOR you, reveals the fact that you can't answer your own self-doubting questions about your own values.
I have news for you> Nobody can answer your questions for you.
Your stupid habit of asking other people what you should be asking of yourself is already a BAD STUPID HABIT.
Your stupid habit of expecting!!! Total strangers who do not know you,,, to answer your own personal question about what governs your own personal actions... is sooo fucking idiotic.... so fucking infantile, sooo fucking pointless, sooo asking, begging for total stranger to lie to you that it's disgusting.
When you answer your own question... IF YOU EVER FIND OUT what the answer is... then come back to this forum and tell us what you have discovered about yourself... Until then, get off this forum and shut your silly baby mouth.
You never ask yourself questions? In vain! Without asking, yourself - do not find answers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4RCGYGFfGA
You have more than one screw loose; freak.
I'm puzzled as to why this rather "cute" thought got almost 1,500 responses, even thought I'm responding now, to point that out. Next somebody will say we should re-invent the wheel. 7,000,000,000 people cannot survive without the exchange of money. It is a regretable fact perhaps, but it is an indisputable fact nevertherless.
The only reason 7,000,000,000 people annot survive without money is because they accept the idea that they cannot survive without money.
And the real issue isn't whether 7,000,000,000 can survive without money -- the issue is whether a certain portion within that number can do so -- and that has been proven many times over that they can.
Study some sociological history and find out for yourself. Read up on Utopian Communities and other similar searches.
You're a fucking idiot. The reason there are more than a thousand responses to this idea is because all of you NEGATIVE assholes are threatened by a POSITIVE idea. All of you idiots need to be gone from this forum and remain puzzled for the rest of your brainless life.
This ideology has a basis of truth to it. Face it, the dollar is losing value rapidly and it will end up being a worthless piece of paper. People need to prepare for this and begin to bring food crops back to their State so we can feed ourselves when the S* hits the fan.
My proposal is not an ideology: you brainwashed idiot.
When a small number of people like 12 or 24 or 36 decide to create their own self-sufficient community: they will also create their own CULTURE, their own way of living, their own way of bre4eathing, their own customs, their own traditions, their own set of values, their own morals, their own ethics, and if they wish: a fucking 'ideology' But they won't create an 'ideology' because ideologies are only brainwashing tools used to brainwash millions of fucking imbeciles like you... until you fucking idiots become so used to being brainwashed that you thinks it's NORMAL to have a fucking 'ideology', and that if you don't have a fucking 'ideology' then you can't live because NOBODY IS TELLING YOU HOW TO THINK AND WHAT TO DO.
Brainwashed fucking imbeciles like you will NEVER create their own self-sufficient communities and will NEVER be asked to join one because in order to create one or join one... you have to ne SELF-SUFFICIENT as an INDIVIDUAL... that means you have to be able to think for yourself WITHOUT HAVING A FUCKING IDEOLOGY: that somebody else made up. Do you understand? You fucking brainless baboon.
turak, I mut point out that the entire objective to brainwahsing is exactly to make the abnormal appear normal and to make unorthodoxy into orthodoxy.
We cannot blame those who are brainwashed -- they're the one who were tampered with. We can only blame them if they realize they ahve been brainwashed and do nothing about it.
You can't blame brainwashed people, but I can wake them up by telling them they are brainwashed, which I do, at every opportunity.
I have to agree with you. Everyone thinks they are arguing over the problems, but what they are really arguing over is how to deal with the side effects (greed, poverty, want, hunger) and completely ignoring the problem (or disease) which is money itself.
But I've heard of a better way than a system based on hugs and kisses. A resource-based economy.. not one based on currency or the value system we have in place today. There are many websites and groups that support this radical and much needed change... but here's 1 page for you to check out, at least : http://www.unitinghumans.com/
WRONG . That web site is totally WRONG for many reasons, there are so many things wrong with this idea I don't know where to start. FIRST: the premise these idiots want to use as a reason to stop using money and stop the industrialized wage slavery of global capitalism and consumerism is to use machines as SLAVES to serve humans... First: what none of you have realized is that the human species has become enslaved by machines: not the other way around. Humans are used to create, build, maintain, feed, and 'use' more and more machines until now humans are spending most of their lives and energy maintaining, building, feeding and mass-manufacturing more and more and more machines, until humans have become more and more mechanical, until human have BECOME MACHINES. You're a fucking humanoid android MACHINE: not a human being. The enslavement of humans being forced into slave camps, into becoming the slaves of machines, slaving away in factories building MORE machines is what the industrial revolution was all about and that is why WW1 and WW2 happened and that is what is continuing to happen. The more you use machines: the more you become a machine.
Creating a human society where machines do all the fucking work is STILL BASED UPON SLAVERY!! IDIOT! If you want to free yourself from slavery: you must also free yourself of PRACTICING SLAVERY, and you must also stop using ANYTHING as a slave: whether it is a living human or a machine>>> do you understand this? If you don't there is no point is speaking to you at all.
SECOND: the arrogance! the total arrogance! OD assuming that all of the world is only there for one species!! That one species has the right? To USE everything in the world for their own selfish gratification, so that all the mountains and valleys and clouds and sky and oceans are merely 'resources'!! So sall the living creatures of the earth, all the forms of life are merely 'resources'... to be USED by one species for their selfish stupid pastimes? That is called EXPLOITATION. That is called SLAVERY. That is so fucking arrogant and stupid; words cannot describe how stupid that assumption is.
The human species has NO FUCKING RIGHT TO EXPLOIT ANYTHING>> got that? By turning human society into a 100% mechanized system of mechanical enslavement and exploitation of 'resources', you think that any better than capitalism? You think that's any different from what humans are doing NOW!? That's EXACTLY THE SAME FUCKING THING global capitalism is doing NOW!!
THIRD: these fucking imbeciles are THINKING in TERMS of mass-manufactured robots. They identify human beings as a global mass-entity. A GLOBALIZED world economy that doesn't use money is exactly what they're planning now: by simply replacing money with a personalized computer chick STUCK INTO YOUR BODY: turning you into a better MACHINE.
Creating a small self-sufficient community of 12 people is the complete opposite of what these ivory-towers numskulls are speaking of. When you create your own self-sufficient community: you stop being a mass-lemming! You STOP being a herd animal! You STOP thinking like a fucking robot and you STOP identifying yourself with billions of fucking roboticized insane imbeciles who have been so dehumanized and turned into mechanical freaks, that they have no humanity left, and they all think alike and act alike as IDENTICALLY AS POSSIBLE.
These fucking idiots think that by simply stopping the use of money: everything will change? While they do not stop ANYTHING ELSE?. While 6.8 billion insane freaks continue to rape the entire earth of all its resources and continue the exploitation and mass murder and mass extinction and mass destruction of all life on earth!???
They are fucking insane, so fucking out of their fucking minds: they are so fucking detached from all reality: I can't even begin to describe how sick these dead souls are.
Exchanging ANYTHING without money is still a dehumanized exchange without any human love, without any human trust, without any human intelligence, without any humanity. You aren't even able to IMAGINE sharing anything with other people except as an unfeeling MACHINE. You sick freaks are beyond salvaging.
Well you know, I wasnt going to respond to your post turak, but I came back to give you a bit of friendly advice. The next time you seek to get your points across to someone, and voice your opinion to them, dont use caps and call people names. You verbally attack people and it just makes you sound like an asshole and guess what.. PEOPLE WONT READ YOUR SHIT ('cause that's exactly what it is). I know I didnt. All the agressive language just popped out and I just couldnt care less about whatever it was you were saying. I wouldnt subject myself to such abuse in person (without eventually hitting you) so I SURE AS HELL am not going to subject myself to it online.
And people, dont listen to anyone that tries to tell you how to think, how you should feel, what you should be doing. You all can figure those things out for yourselves. Peace out.
You're a coward: meet me in person and I'll tell you the exact same thing I told you on this internet. Your EXCUSE to avoid reading and admitting the truths I tell you is inexcusable. Your EXCUSE that you are 'insulted' or don't like how I worded the truth is total BULLSHIT.
The fact is you won't subject yourself to the TRUTH. That is why I despise you and everyone who refuses to face the truth.
NOBODY HAS A MONOPOLY ON THE TRUTH: you fucking idiot. When somebody tells you the facts: you SHUT UP and LISTEN to him, and you do not use excuses to avoid facing the facts.
hahahaha LOL ROFL! ROFLMAO! you're a funny angry person :D
You're a boring liar and a boring bullshitter and a troll.
Your attempt to make fun of human emotion has one major fallacy You don't have any human emotion, and you've never felt any human emotions. You can't make fun of something you don't understand. Which is why you misperceive and misinterpret what other people who DO have human emotions feel.
Your defense against logic,sanity, and reason is to 'laugh' at it. That's called denial. The fact is you don't laugh. You aren't laughing. You don't know how to laugh. All you can do is FAKE it, on a computer screen. All you can do is type lies and letters on an abstract screen. The only place you can do that is over the internet. In real life, reality cannot be ignored or denied. If you say "LOL ROFL! ROFLMAO" to anyone who is sane and not a computer freak who is insane: they will avoid you because they have correctly recognized that you are a nut case living inside your own bubble of mental insanity.
I'm not convinced you can't do both.
Both what? Be speciific.
look at the last line of your post
WHICH post? I asked you to be specific, not vague: can you even comprehend English words? I am not going to look at any post jackass. Either you tell me what you mean or fuck off and stop clogging up the internet your your fucking shit.
Do you have a loaf of bread you can spare ? Sincerely yours; Your humble starving employee !
I couldn't live on love alone; Sorry !
Let me explain something to you. You are deprived of love because you live in a loveless society. You have never experienced love in your entire life. Because you have never seen and never experienced love: you have no conception of what love is or how it works.
The only reason your have the mindless urge to fill your belly with rotting dead crap is because you heart is empty of all LIFE-energy and all love. Your entire soul and body is empty of all positive energy and human understanding. There are people in India who live on breathing air, and have done so for centuries: they are called Yogi's and they have trained their bodies to do without food. But they are completely corrupt in how they do this.
If you are willing to learn: I can teach you to reduce your food intake to such a high levle of energy efficiency that you will need almost no food at all, and have all the nergy you need to run and play and have fun and live in a community which is not based upon over-stuffing your belly 3 times a day.
One of the worst things you can eat is bread. All carbohydrates are addictive because they are basically sugar. If you become educated about nutrition: you will realize that everything you are eating now is unhealthy and it will lead to many kinds of diseases and your dying early.
Also: one of the healthiest things you can do is go on a fast. The longer you do not eat food, the cleaner your body becomes because then it has time to cleanse itself of all the toxic drugs and elements which you continually poison yourself with every day.
My advice to you is to starve yourself. It's the best thing that could ever happen to you. People who have never gone without food in their entire lives are smug arrogant asses who have no understanding of what it means to be human.
OCCUPY EVERYONE'S INBOX! http://occupywallst.org/forum/spread-awareness-of-ows-as-easily-as-possible/
!!....that's what you're doing right now: and what does it get you? ISOLATION NO FUN ALONE
amen
I would like to live in a society that is not dominated by monetary gain for more than just personal reasons, like a lot of other people have said technological advancements are making it harder and harder to make money for everyone which just means that it is becoming obsolete anyway, we should just make that next plunge and develop a new way of doing business that matches our level of technology.
you are not visualizing what I am planning and what the ethic of self-sufficiency is. Self-sufficiency means there is NO buying OR selling of any kind and no trading or barter of any kind. No use of money as an exchange of any kind. Voluntary cooperation only is allowed. No involuntary enforced cooperation: which is why all of you are SLAVES in this system. No more doing business. No more business PERIOD. Just enjoy LIFE and live without using money. I can TEACH you how to do this. But you will have to cleanse yourself of all the addictions you now suffer from. You first need to be educated and trained. This community will be the most elite community on EARTH. It requires discipline, training, commitment, and a willingness to learn and be taught intelligently. This means that you NEVER look up to anyone who teaches you and you only take what is taught you as true after you have TESTED and proven to yourself that what is taught you is actually true and not a cunning swindle.
I think that I am starting to see what you are meaning, taking an example from someone else, a farmer grows corn for the community because it is a need of the community, they wouldn't receive payment because it is unnecessary, they are just happy to provide. Still, I would be happy to learn what you have to teach if you are willing to teach me.
No. I am afraid you are dyslexic. Do you know what self-sufficiency is>?
Self sufficiency is when an individual or group is capable of taking care of them self without outside interference, in order for the individual to become the group or this self sufficient community that you speak of you would then need to share your ideas, otherwise it's a group running in circles debating with each other over what self sufficiency is and how it can be best achieved.
Correct... Self-sufficient people do not need farmers and they do not need corn. Do you understand where your mistake is? You are applying the idea of a group of self-sufficient people who create a self-sufficient community to an ordinary NON-self-sufficient community where people who are not self-sufficient and DO need a farmer, and do eat corn.
To begin with: self sufficient people are vegetarians. This cuts out any need for dairy products, like cheese, milk, yogurt, ice cream. This eliminates any need to kill animals, this eliminates any need to raise domesticated animals, this increases their health, this lowers the possibility of any of them becoming sick or catching a fly or cold, this raises the strength of their immune system.
Second: By becoming intelligent vegetarians, they will also cut out all carbohydrates. Carbohydrates are basically sugar. All grains, potatoes and rice and corn are carbohydrates. When you eat these unhealthy addictive substances, they all turn into sugar in your stomach. There is very little difference between eating processed sugar and eating a carbohydrate. The only difference is the time it takes your digestive system to break down the unprocessed carbs into sugar.
This eliminates any need for your community to raise staple foods. The main staples of unenlightened humanity have been: wheat, barley, rice, potatoes and corn for thousands of years. The huge amount of labor and work to raise and grow these staples and then kill them and crush them and turn them into things like bread, pizza, spaghetti, tacos, tortillas, etc is eliminated. Also the need for huge tracts of land to grow these staples is also eliminated.
The result is.... no farmer, and no corn. Just healthy vegetarians who eat only 1/10th the amount of food that uneducated people eat and the result is they are 10 times healthier than other people.
How is this accomplished? BY educating the people who plan to enter such a self-sufficient community into a different CULTURE of eating. Intelligent self-sufficient people do not eat food in order to feel 'pleasure'. They do not eat food to 'feel good' or to feel stuffed. They do not eat food to GRATIFY themselves orally... they have outgrown all oral fixations like sucking on a lollipop or on a cup of coffee.
Intelligent educated self-sufficient people only eat food to get ENERGY. For instance: Let's say you need energy to walk 50 miles and do certain things one day. The first thing you do when you wake up is you don't eat food: you start doing whatever you've planned and only stop to eat when and if you feel your energy-level dropping. This will only happen if you spend 2 hours of arduous labor like chopping logs with an axe or jogging or running or swimming. If you DON'T do heavy work and you don't work up a SWEAT so you're literally sweating; and you just walk and don't jog or run your energy-use will be so small, you won't feel your energy level drop until 11 AM and only then will you stop and eat anything. And even then, you'll be eating 1/10th of what consumers normally eat.
I speak from personal experience. The fact is: the fitter you become, the more active you become: the more EFFICIENT your body becomes at using the food you eat to produce ENERGY. Until you can climb ladders all day and work 12 hours a day and need only eat a few nuts, some salad and an apple, and come home and not feel hungry.
This is what I mean. To become a self-sufficient person, you must change your ROOT-culture of instant self-gratification and addiction to SALT, SUGAR, TOBACCO, ALCOHOL, CAFFEINE, etc... and create a culture of health, energy, happiness, FUN!... PLAY!... laughter and love, by changing how you live and changing yourself.
By the systematic training of your body: you can eliminate any feelings of hunger. The less you eat: the SMALLER your stomach becomes until it is so small and so powerful: it process any food so efficiently that you don't eat supper at all...
WHAT? no supper? Every educated nutritionist and dietitian knows they in order to lose weight and lose your extra fat cells: you should not eat any food 6 hours before sleeping. The evening is for rest and relaxation. ALSO... if you're not hungry and don't eat supper: you sleep better on an empty stomach and wake up feeling more energized and lighter and ready to start the day with instant action!
This is only ONE small part of the training and education which is needed for self-sufficient communities to become practical.
The key to self sufficiency is self control and nothing else, you are even saying this in your post. Give up this kind of food or that kind of drink and in the end you only gain self control.
Read the IIH (initiation into hermetics) by franz bardon
listen freak: I don' need to read a fucking book about it: I already DID it: I know how to DO it, and I can TEACH other people how to OD it. I already WROTE the book on how to become self-sufficient. I am a teacher: who teaches from experience: so don't try to refer me to any fucking book. Among other things I am an author and I have written many books myself on many subjects.
One other crucial point about creating and living in an egalitarian community is that there are NO authority figures over you. What you have not yet LEARNED is to not ALLOW anyone to have any authority over you: mentally, morally, ethically, physically, spiritually or socially. You have not yet learned many many things. The key to self-sufficiency is NOT just one thing: it is a whole host of things which I have barely begun to explain to you. The key to self-sufficiency is shutting off your fucking computer and DOING it: not fucking talking about it or writing about it. You have not even begun to reach the level of practicality where you can live without your precious computer.
The key to being an egalitarian is treating everyone is HONESTY and COURAGE. If someone is a better athlete than you are you ADMIT IT and learn from them. If someone is more courageous than you are YOU ADMIT IT. and learn from them IF someone knows more about something than you do YOU ADMIT IT and learn from them.... Until everyone becomes a better human being every day because they are actively and consciously TRYING to become better every day, and because that is the GOAL of LIFE: to become better every day. The goal of LIFE is to never stop learning. The INSTANT you stop learning NEW things, you stop growing and you stop becoming a better human being. In order to do this you must DESTROY all sense of normality and all norms because there is no such thing as normality. Normality does not exist. IN order to never stop learning and becoming a better human being every day of your Life you must NEVER lose your SENSE of PURE WONDER. Every infant and child born into this world has their own natural SENSE of PURE WONDER which is systematically poisoned and destroyed by the artificial womb of civilization.
IN order to RETAIN your Sense of Pure Wonder you must NEVER FORGET YOUR PAST. YOU must always remain true to the infant and child you once were.. You must never deny or forget your own past. You must be able to REMEMBER every significant thing that happened to you and understand WHY it happened to you and WHEN it happened and WHO did WHAT, and DIGEST your past and put it into PERSPECTIVE and COMPARE it to all the other experiences of your life TO EACH OTHER and EVALUATE ALL OF THEM!! And do this EVERY DAY OF YOUR LIFE... so you develop an INTEGRATED PERSONALITY that is the accumulated SUM of ALL your life experiences which is digested and evaluated and CONCENTRATED into the most SIMPLIFIED smallest amount of WISDOM possible.
This means that you must become not only a THINKER: you must also become a FEELER. Yo9u must be able to FEEL ALL HUMAN EMOTIONS. Y9ou must become able to FEEL EVERY HUMAN EMOTION YOU EVER FELT FULLY. You must LEARN to be able to FEEL all the human emotions which you blocked out of your awareness when you were traumatized. You must LEARN how to HEAL YOURSELF from all of the damage and poison of your past and how you were mis-raised and mis-educated, and told lies and swallowed those lies and believe in those lies. IN other words you must become an ACTIVE SEARCHER FOR TRUTH: which means you must actively search for your own INNER truth by exploring your own INNER UNIVERSE: Your own Inner Universe is just as INFINITE as your outer Universe. Why am I telling you this? Because I know from personal experience: that's why. I have already DONE IT. You have not BEGUN to learn what I can teach you. So don't you ever try to refer me to any fucking BOOK. LIFE is not a fucking BOOK. LIFE is DOING. Life is FEELING. LIFE is not a fucking dead machine. LIFE is LIVING PEOPLE TOUCHING EACH OTHER IN PERSON: not fucking e-mails to total strangers.
There are three distinct ways to live life, you can live as a servant, you can live as a slave, or you can live as the master. The servant goes through life looking to serve, they want to serve because they feel it is helping. The slave goes through life looking to serve the self, they work for the self because they feel they are alone. The master goes through life forging his own fate, they forge there own fate only through self control.
Like you said getting off the computer and doing what is required is itself a manifestation of that self control and you have taught me or corrected me in my path. What you're describing is enlightenment or something like the attainment of godhead.
WRONG: you are living in n abstract bubble: There are not 3 ways to live: there is only ONE way to live and it is the same way for every single human being on earth including you braindead freaks. I am a teacher: the way of a teacher is superior to all slaves masters and servants because he entire SYSTEM OF SLAVERY is corrupt and evil.
Get this through your fucking brain: nobody can learn ANYTHING over the internet. Nobody can teach ANYTHING over the internet. The medium of the internet is an ANTI-SOCIAL DEAD TOY which isolates you from other people. JUST like watching TV isolates you from other people. Just like driving a car insulates you from other people. JUST like staying in your room and not going out and meeting people in person isolates you.
The ONLY WAY you can learn is from me IN PERSON. There is NO OTHER WAY.
I have not taught you a fucking thing. Everything I have told you you have not comprehended. If you want to understand what I am telling you: you will need to come to me in person, and meet me in person. If you are not willing to to that then do not bother anwering this post.
I have nothing against meeting you in person because you do have a great deal of wisdom in your words, it's just how you act that blinds most people to it. The internet and all that other stuff only isolates people who can not properly use it, the same as it will only teach those who know how to use it.
If you truly are a teacher then you would understand the value of perspective and the need to go beyond your own to reach others, being a teacher is not about teaching, it's about inspiring the student to learn, otherwise you will only be talking to deaf ears with mute words.
For example I could see that you are fanatical about teaching, or I could see that you are only interested in starting a cult. I could see that you are expressing the need to become self sufficient, or I could see that you are expressing the desire of everyone depending on you for that self sufficiency which is itself slavery and as you say corrupt and evil.
I could see many things and all of them would be true while also being false, they don't become one or the other until I decide for it to be as such. So far I have decided that you have taught me to stop waiting on others to approve of my actions or to just act and not be bothered so much by the consequences. To be free of inhibition.
Good! Good! Be your own man! Be yourself! Don't listen to anyone unless they agree with your own deepest positive feelings!
Teaching IS about inspiring others: Correct. That is why the computer is useless as a teaching tool: it doesn't inspire anyone. Only by personal example can anyone inspire anyone else, and that is why I said the only time I can teach you is if you meet me in person.
My entire point in self-sufficiency is to become an INDIVIDUALIST as opposed to the herd animals who blindly follow leaders. Only rugged individualists who can stand by themselves are worthy of being part of a community that can stand by itself.
Becoming an independent individual is not easy. It takes many things to become a fully rounded human being, and if you do not want to waste years of your life making mistakes and going down the wrong paths which lead to dead ends and are a waste of time, finding people who can help you is the most intelligent thing you can do apart from the FIRST and most important ethic of growing up: which is: learning from your own mistakes... and don't be afraid to make mistakes! The more mistakes you make, the faster you will learn and grow and change from your OWN experience, not what others tell you.
That is... IF you can differentiate between what is a mistake and what is not a mistake... Which leads to the basic root questions of what is RIGHT and what is wrong.... which leads to the deeper question of what is GOOD and what is evil. Which is why you need a teacher who can educate you about the organic LOGIC of the Universe and how the Universe actually works.
If you find yourself backsliding and making the same mistake twice: admit it and LEARN not to do it again.
Egalitarian communities are based upon the courage to be honest with yourself and with everyone else. If someone is better than you at something: admit it, and learn from them. If someone is worse than you at something admit it; and teach them what they are lacking or doing wrong. That is what intelligent cooperation is all about. There is no such thing as two human beings who are exactly identical to each other, and there is no such thing as two people who are equal to each other in all respects, but the more people SHARE their lives with each other, the more they learn from each other... the more equal they become by learning from each other. You can only do this in person living in close contact with others who are as honest and courageous as you are.
Egalitarian communities are based upon the principle of complete honesty and complete openness: as opposed to the culture of the internet which is based upon secrecy and hiding who you are and what you are. They are diametrically opposed to each other. In an egalitarian community there are NO SECRETS. In an egalitarian community: everyone shares their thoughts and feelings honestly with everyone else...
BUT... in order to do so... you first must be taught to connect yourself TO your true inner self, and discover the true emotions and passions that are inside you. Unlocking your inner potential for creativity can only be achieved if you nurture and develop your innate intrinsic Sense of Pure Wonder. Every baby ever born is born with a SENSE OF PURE WONDER. How that Pure Wonder dies, how it is destroyed and stunted and twisted and poisoned and killed... is the systematic dulling down of human intelligence by what civilized people call 'normality', the dead mechanical boring condition of not questioning anything and taking everything for granted. The universal FACT is... everything you take for granted; you become a victim of. Everything you do NOT take for granted: you can learn from. The less things you take for granted: the more you can learn.
I actually spent some time giving up pop, tv, and internet, during that time I started playing chess, going for walks, and thinking more philosophically.
What I got out of that time was a short period of intense happiness and clarity, not just a feeling of happiness but true to the core happiness that made me feel as if my life could end at that moment and I would be ok with that because I already had everything I needed.
So I definitely agree with you, the less you take for granted the more you learn and the happier you'll be.
You agree with me because you are an individualist who does not conform to the mass norms and goes against the direction that the herd is going. I used to play chess for years on Santa Monica beach also; it exercises your mind. I also played sports and exercise my body; now I'm doing Yoga and jogging and bicycling and walking.
But these solitary pursuits are mere existence, not living. You need to find others who are like you and socialize with them. The OW movement gives you that opportunity to meet people from all walks of life which normally you would never have the opportunity to meet, because normally all these people who come from different walks of life would never socialize and get together. This is the only true positive aspect of the OW movement: their coming together without leaders and organizing and forming communities. If there is an OW movement in your area, go down there and see what's going on. There are meetings almost every night where anyone can stand up and express their ideas and opinions.
It would be fun to have a more active role in my community rather than sitting at home trying to think of ways to start a life. I guess I was blinded by the pursuit of potential, always looking and never finding what was already there.
Gandhi had a similar idea in creating a autonomous collective of independent self-sustaining villages. The problem is that will actually stagnate poverty and the economy as a whole by keeping wealth, in all its forms, where it is already. We need a redistribution of wealth and one cannot realistically distribute wealth without a currency to symbolize a unit of wealth.
Gandhi never proposed self-sufficiency ever. Self-sufficient community life is the opposite of accumulating anything. It is the OPPOSITE of consumer living for a very simple reason. In order to be 100% self-sufficient means you are not allowed to FILTHY anyone else's community with your trash your garbage your feces your urine. This means that you must recycle everything you accumulate ot else you will drown in your own filth in less than a year. Instead of distributing wealth get RID of it. As long as you measure the success of a community buy its WEALTH this means you are still thinking in terms of MONEY. All of you braindead freaks are unable to think logically. A community that does not value MONEY and does not use MONEY vales fun and happiness and laughter and health because it is the OPPOSITE of the sick diseased society you live in now. Your sick diseased culture AND YOUR PARENTS and your schools and your idols and icons and authority figures do NOT value happiness play fun, Nature. Your sick diseased culture creates sick diseased children who grow up to become even SICKER diseased corrupt adults.
Yes, the point is we need to concentrate on the worst of the worst first:
Toshiba America Information Systems, Inc. Digital Products Division 9740 Irvine Boulevard Irvine, CA 92618-1697 1-949-583-3000
They had a heavy hand in Japan's nuclear accident. It's only a matter of time before Japan's nuclear waste affects Americans.
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-03-13/tepco-toshiba-jr-east-may-be-among-most-hurt-by-earthquake.html
They sold U.S. military secrets to the Russians.
http://www.nytimes.com/1988/04/15/opinion/l-punishing-toshiba-is-a-secondary-boycott-809388.html
And Toshiba is giving the folks the shaft!
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2213279355#!/group.php?gid=2213279355&v=wall
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/computers/toshiba.html
http://www.boycottowl.com/Toshiba/79
Because as of right now, a hug, a kiss, and a pat on the back will not help myself or any of my family. Even if it could I would rather do for my family myself than have others do for me.
Wrong: your family lives and dies by how much love you give them You can be poor and on the street: but if you hug and kiss your children and spouse you will survive and stay together. Likewise all the money in the world cannot keep a family that has no love in it together: they will all split up and envy each other and hate each other no matter how much money they have. The most valuable thing you have now is your FAMILY. Family comes BEFORE money.
If you want to help your family: find other families who are in the same predicament you are in and ORGANIZE yourselves into a community, a cooperative community is just a larger FAMILY of loved trusted people who know each other and treat each others as their equal.
Wrong. My brother tried to kill me on one of his highs. I don't really give a damn what happens to him.
Is your brother the only family you have? What about the other members of your family? Or are you alone?
God bless people like you. It allows me to remain successful. We need more idiots like you in this world. Get rid of money, classic. Worked great in the middle ages too. Ive got a great idea while we are at it, lets bring back the black plague. That worked as well in the last era of world history in which we did not have a basic currency exchange system. You want to complain that you are in the 99%, well guess why, its because you arent smart enough to move up.
wrong: it's imbeciles like you we need to get rid of. We need to get rid of all the fucking IGNORANT imbeciles who flunked history and reading comprehension in school and still graduated because your school systems turn out the worst uneducated morons on this planet.
The Middle Ages was a time of robbery because the lust for gold and MONEY: rose to such a high level that people threw away all their christian ethics and morals and began stealing killing and cheating and lying because they thought the end of the world was approaching. They ran away from their cottages and farms and huddled inside towns overpopulating themselves and creating viruses from the packing in of people into small areas called cities: this created disease and filth>> Much like your diseased overpopulated system created you. The new currency exchange has enabled the top1% of the wealthiest robbers and swindlers of the world to rob you the 99% of all your wealth: and you greedy scum applaud them and envy them their filthy lucre because you worship the god of mammon: you worship MONEY: you hate human beings: you LOVE money. The OW movement is the opposite of your filthy kind: they Like people in preference to money.
Awesome response brother. First off, I find it hilarious that you are calling someone out on reading comprehension and yet not even going the grammatically correct route. Second, before I entered my real career I was a history teacher, and I would be happy to sit you down one day and discuss Dark Age monetary policy. But the long and short is, the 99% your jackass contingent claim to represent would be far better served back then than it needs to be now.
Finally, don't make assumptions online. You were right about one thing. I do LOVE money. Anyone who doesn't isn't that bright. I love money because I realize I can use it to help my family achieve more and at the same time use it to help others achieve more. Please note that i used the term "achieve" and not something like "get." I was raised right. I was raised to strive to be highly successful. And I was also raised to know that when i reach high levels of success, I should give a ton back. So, in short, I am what the OWS group should be. Grow up from modest means (which I did), start from the bottom up (which I did), get better positions constantly through hard work (which I did), and put yourself in a place where you can help others in significant ways (which I do).
And, full disclosure, I still work in the non-profit sector.
So the long and short is, you are angry at your dad, not a me. Go yell at him for not giving you the right Christmas present you hostile, pitiful child.
One thing about you guilty lying stinking scum is: you try to imagine things which never happened. The only way you can IMAGINE in your fantasy that you are not a despicable scum is by IMAGINING that you are in some way better off than me... The LAST resort of this tactic is imagining that you somehow had better parents than me or a better childhood than me. That's all you're really concerned about: convincing yourselves in your own imaginary fantasy that somehow in some way you're better than I am. The problem with that is I'm not a paranoid scumbag like you are. I don't keep the dirty filthy BORING details of my life a SECRET from other people like you do.
My father was an engineer and he gave me very nice presents when I was little. This was in 1951... before you were born. Like a train set. Ever hear of a child getting a train set for Xmas? When? In 1960 that's when. Have you ever as a child built a snowman with your father and he gives you his hat and scarf to top off the snowman so he comes alive with a carrot for his nose and two pieces of coal for his eyes? Did your father ever bring you to an amusement park when you were only 4 yrs old? Did he ever take you with him when he was visiting his friends in the lake country? Did you ever sit on your father's lap while he read to you because you couldn't read the comic book he had given you? You do not even know what love is . You think giving boxes to children is love. I was not raised in the spoiled greedy selfish culture you grew up in you poor deprived ass. I didn't 'want' ANY presents. They were a total surprise because I wasn't brainwashed by the commercial shit into expecting any because there was no TV or commercial Xmas in the 50's yet. I was lucky. I lived in a time that was free from most the filth you have been programmed into and exposed to.
Brother, you are awesome. Your insecurity and paranoia blows my mind. Long and short, i know I had better parents than you because the taught me to not paste my life story on the internet to strangers you moron. Further, I was not raised by my parents to make assumptions about others, which, clearly and yet again, based upon this post you were. I am sure your father was a wonderful man though, even though it is apparent in your writings that he raped you violently throughout your childhood.
THIS IS WHAT YOU WROTE TO ME you scumbag:
"I am sure your father was a wonderful man though, even though it is apparent in your writings that he raped you violently throughout your childhood"
You want to meet ME: fine: I will KILL YOU for that remark
DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME? DO YOU UNDERSTAND? DO YOU UNDERSTAND?>?
What a wonderful post! It's about a Great love for People?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2fbMQRKFD8
You did not read the personal message he sent me threatening violence: privately in secret: trying to keep his hate secret from the public forum.
That filth calling himself "mrkeyjr "... tried to accuse me of what he is guilty of. He accused my of calling his father a pedophile: when it was he who said that about my father.
When a stinking scumbag calls your father a rapist and then accuses you of calling his father a rapist:... that kind of evil behavior and lies is not to be tolerated on any public forum. The only reason these scum do these unbelievable things is because they can hide behind anonymity and never have to face the people they write to. The entire culture of anonymity on the Internet is a sick culture which breed Internet criminals and bred criminal anti-social behavior
Let me explain something to you you fucking stinking lying piece of shit: every time you come back to me trying to win an argument you let more of your guard down and reveal to everyone what you actually are. First: your entire charade is a scam. You're a little scared shit hiding in your mommy's basement giggling as your sick mind tries to invent more lies and more.
First... in 1950... computers hadn't been invented yet. So it would have been impossible for my father to tell me anything about the internet because that also did not exist when I was growing up. You REALLY exposed that you are: a paranoid freak hiding from others.. You AFRAID to tell anyone who you really are. That is the difference between you and honest people and honest people can see THROUGH liars like you EASILY Your game always fails. In trying to fool other people and lie to them you ALWAYS slip up. My father was a very gentle man and he never came into the bedroom that I shared with my brother. You are STILL trying to imagine some way of feeling or being superior to me and you are failing. What you actually are doing is exposing how terrified you are of anyone knowing any personal details of your life... Decent people who had decent honest parents are PROUD of how they were raised you fucking asshole, they are not AFRAID of telling other people how they were raised by their parents like you.
Secondly... and this will come as a shock to you; now I know one reason why you are such a scumbag... your father raped you when you were little.
No decent clean honest human being could even IMAGINE or invent such a horrible thing. Only someone who was raped and blocked it out of his memory could ever come up with something like that. You are a very very very very sick diseased freak: you know that.
You will never understand decent honest people. Honest people have nothing to hide. Only paranoid sick freaks like you have something to hide. You will never understand honesty. All you understand are lies/
You a history teacher? You're one of the STUPIDEST freaks on this forum. God help the poor slobs you brainwashed with your conventional propaganda bullshit while you were in school. Don't you know where Robber Baron Capitalism came from you fucking ignorant jackass? It came from the Medieval Robber Barons of the Dark Ages who robbed everyone who came into their regions: which led to a system of taxation that starved the poor into destitution. You're an upwardly mobile snob and you do not understand logic and you do not know your history. You are another fucking SWINDLER of the system: your horrible unending GUILTY CONSCIENCE has sent to. You're a racketeer. ALL the so-called 'non-profit' organizations are rackets for the rich few who profit from them. You don't love your family I can tell you right now to your face.
First try running your non-profit organizations without making money off them you hypocrite. All charitable non-profit organizations are RACKETS designed expressly for the RICH. Just like all church bazaars are designed for the RICH pastor or reverend to keep his RICH comfortable upwardly mobile STATUS SYMBOL of a job while making TOKEN efforts to help other that don't help anyone, and making sure there are plenty of people who are BELOW him and poorer than he is and have no power. Your kind of hypocrisy has been around for over 5,000 years and you STINK of it. If you want to practice what you preach: give away all your wealth to them and join the poorest of your congregation in dumpster diving. That is what an egalitarian community is: people who are EQUAL in everything. You stink of hypocrisy and greed. Get way from me, you're disgusting.
Turak, again, awesome response. And please know I am responding to this only because I cannot fall asleep right now. So, if my response is a bit rude, I apologize, but man, your hostility is palpable. Maybe the reason you are part of the 5% (Im not going to call it the 99%, but instead I will recognize the 5% that are completely unhireable) which is because you are a raging psychopath. I love that you mocked my former students (poor slobs as you called them), who came from some of the worst sections of the city in which I worked. Yet 95% of them went on to 4 year colleges and of that group 100% have graduated within 5 years. More importantly, none of my former students are sitting on their asses in parks claiming to be part of a cause. They are actually doing something with their lives. I would be happy to put you in touch with them as they would more than likely be able to give some career advice.
Further, I thoroughly enjoyed how worked up you got about my questioning your knowledge of Dark Age economics. What are you, five (I honestly hope you are)? Your pouting on that end really screams of an insecure human being. Truly exemplifies how sad a person you are. I get a kick out of people who are so stupid that they get hung up on the most irrelevant detail of a conversation, so thanks for that. In short, that little tantrum on your end summed up all of the faults with the OWS movement. It made me all the more excited for going through the park Monday on my way to work and seeing any remaining idiots getting cuffed.
But what I love most of all is that your responses represents the worst of the OWS movement. You clearly are an intelligent human being. It appears you have a fairly decent vocabulary and it also seems you have a rudimentary knowledge of world history. But you use said attributes to attack those whom could help you rather than reach out to them. You mock non-profits? A quote, by you, "All charitable non-profit organizations are RACKETS designed expressly for the RICH." I know this sounds rude, but are you mentally retarded? Do me a favor, give a ring to the NAACP, NEA, AYSO, NWA, WWF or any other 1,000,000 non profits to help support your jack ass claim. Rather than kick them in the nuts, reach out to them. They do far more that you think they do. And, unlike what you seem to think, they don't "make" money. the excess income they earn either has to go into reserves or to programatic costs.
Me and those like me aren't hypocrites. We are doing what you are too damned lazy to do. I actually make change. And just to be clear, while you might make change in the form of breaking a $20 for someone, I mean that i affect positive change in the world. Please continue to use the rhetoric of marx and other morons like him to support your cause, but know this, I produce results, you produce pamphlets. And just for proof, last year I helped to place over 1,000 inner-city kids in some of the best private boarding schools in NE. What in the hell did you do you sad boy?
Best of luck to you man. I hope you can come up with something to lie to your parents about at the Thanksgiving Day dinner table. Otherwise, a gun is cheap and bullets are cheaper. Do us all a favor.
Again, you are angry at your dad for not loving you. And, based upon your recent post, just because one clergy member raped you, doesnt mean all will.
Apparently you missed my reply explaining to you that you do not know what love is. I am 64 years old and you have a VERY guilty conscience. I do not. What is VERY telling is your attempt to laugh at the fact that your robber baron culture of robbery greed and swindling comes from the robber barons of the Dark ages, In fact you don't DARE even mention this because you are a guilty little shit and a snob and you have never helped anyone in your life except yourself. You are the classic upwardly mobile snob asshole capitalist. There are 100's of millions like you in all walks of life and your racket calling yourself non-profit is a total SWINDLE.... I know it and YOU know it.. What you REALLY do is brainwash children into becoming cut-throat sharks and systematically destroy all of their human values and decency, by worshiping MONEY. The FACT that you gauge your own success by money prove that you are the lowest scum on earth. I am 64 years old and I am not a part of the OW movement. That is another mistake you made. Your entire post is based upon your imaginary fallacies that don't exist. You had VERY BAD PARENTS. You must be Jewish because only Jews crow about how wealthy and affluent they are. If you ever read Mathew Jacobson's 'The Robber Barons' it will shut your mouth very nicely: but you will never read any book that can prove to you how evil you actually are in worshiping the filthiest scum of criminals ever born. Your entire system of criminal greed and illegal swindles is about to crash. Again: read my post where I explain what kind of childhood I had. You are the enemy of all decent people who are fighting against the corrupt system you PROFIT from. Until you study the logic of sociology and the mathematics of hierarchical upwardly mobile cultures: you will not understand how evil you truly are. The worst poverty is always CREATED by cultures of greed and selfishness. You CREATE greed..
This was amazing Turak. I loved every minute of it. First, good to know you are an Anti-Semite. That is another negative on your checklist. And, I must admit, Im a bit confused as to how you got to the whole daddy rape thing, that was a bit odd. But, Im guessing you have a ton of free time as one can only assume that whatever family you have wants nothing to do with you. I cant imagine being hated by those who are supposed to love me. Please explain that one to me.
Anywho, I have got to say, if what you claim I do in my day job is true, Ive got to think, Im doing a good thing. Money is important. I do not have the mentors in my program teach kids to worship money, but I do encourage them to impress upon our participants to realize what money, earned in the right way, can do. The only thing more important than money is family and loving relationships. And in order to appreciate money, one has to appreciate hard work, values, education, and also relationships. One cannot hope to be successful financially without success in life. This is what we impress upon the children in the program I help run. And, as most of them are going on to college and demonstrating success both professionally and socially, I think Im doing a pretty damned good job.
Oh, and by the way, you are wrong the worst poverty is created by drought or massive epidemics.
I look forward to hearing your next incoherent, grammatically fouled rant. Me and others have turned it into an interesting drinking game, so please respond sooner rather than later.
Wrong: poverty is created by your corporate greed and the world bank destroying the economies of 3rd world countries like Jamaica and African nations. Your nation is the most evil nation on earth and you are an upwardly mobile arrogant smug capitalist pig teaching children the evils of worldly success. Let me tell you about the money you make: It has destroyed your family and your human relationships with your children and your wife... Money destroys love. Worldly success destroys all human relationships. You are an agent of evil. The entire world of capitalist greed does NOT run by education, and hard work work being rewarded with worldly success. The capitalist world functions in the opposite manner. Those who work the hardest get paid the least. Those who stand out by being too competent are fired. Those who do the least work get the most money. Those who are the most incompetent rise to the highest positions. You cannot earn money 'the right way'. All money is evil. Your entire nation is in an economic depression and you are in denial.SOMEBODY must have raped you when you were a child or you would never put that piece of imaginary filth into a post. You are hiding tons of hate. You are a corrupter of youth. You and all the capitalist commercial filth companies that are now using Santa Claus to sell diamonds and expensive cars to the rich while selling cheap pizza to the poor. You have no culture but the culture of greed and the love of money. Keep up your stinking lies and facade and watch your fake smile crack.
Turak, again, thank you. Your responses make my "fake smile" go ear to ear. I do appreciate you deviating from your anti-semitic rants (although I assume Mel Gibson is a bit upset with you now). The only people who bitch about money are those that have none. You obviously are one of them. The only people who talk about failed relationships are those who have done nothing but fail at them. Clearly you take the cake on that one as you drone on constantly as how to fail at them. I sort of wish you were right when you claim that I were hiding tons of hate as it would give some credence to your anger, but it simply isnt true. Im pretty contented.
And, it is obvious you have no idea how the "real world" works, at least in terms of the society in which i work. While you may be correct that those who work the hardest get paid the least, we have different definitions of hard work. A ditch digger works his rear off, I do not deny that. But, the work that said ditch digger does is far less important than a computer programmer who creates a program that allows for detection of heart problems or earthquakes. So, in my opinion, the 18 hours that a ditch digger puts in is worth far less than that the 5 hours said computer programer puts in.
Also, the "world of capitalist greed" as you put it does run by education and hard work. This is a nation in which those who get solid educations and work hard succeed, despite what those in the so-called 99% claim. We are a nation of the Carnegie's, Mellon's, Ford's..... All were well educated, either formally or informally (as were their modern day counter-parts such as Jobbs, Knight, Gates) and worked their asses off. Even Gates who dropped out still worked hard enough to get into Harvard before dropping out.
Just a few other points, as I type this. I am looking at my beautiful wife (who laughed her ass off at you comments) and thinking about my kids who are asleep. And as I look into the eyes of my wife and realize how happy we are together, and when i think about taking my kids for a walk in the AM, I realize how wrong and sad you are. Then, when I consider that my entire family (including my brother and sister's kids and significant others) will be enjoying Thanksgiving together in a few short days with our parents, I think all can agree that the money I have earned has not "Destroyed my family" as you put it.
Long and short, you are an angry pitiful man. There is a quick and easy solution to this. Take a deep breath, walk across the street, have a drink, and begin to realize that your failures are yours, and not due to anyone else but you.
I told you scum to not send me any more of your personal hate mail in private: you fucking scumbag
You want to meet me in Montreal? With pleasure: right on top of Mount Royal: The promontory looking out over Montreal called the OUTLOOK: ANY TIME YOU WISH. and you will ANSWER for what you said about my father. IN PERSON TO MY FACE Name the date and the time.
Stop hiding your filth in secrecy scumbag and come out in the open you revolting thing.
Show your wife where you said my father violently raped me: then show her the private messages you sent me: then see if she will spit ion your face: okay?
As to your gluttony on Thanksgiving: I am a vegetarian and I do not celebrate gluttony on Thanksgiving or on Xmas. I know exactly how the world works: which is why I am creating a community that is self-sufficient and does not use money. Then all of you smug asses will have nothing to crow about: get it yet? Your only superiority comes from how much 'money' you have and how you have more 'money' than other people. That is exactly why you are scum and why you are a corrupter of youth. Teaching children to work for nothing but money is sick. As the only value you have: money makes you EMPTY inside. Your inner soul is filled with hate and envy, and false superiority. Without your money you would commit suicide because you have no human morals or values that are GREATER than your love of money and material status possessions.. You JUDGE other people by how much MONEY they have. That is totally immoral and sick. I do not drink alcohol and I do not drink coffee. I drink spring water and I am very fit and healthy.
Again: show your wife where you tell me that my father raped me violently:: when you come to meet me about that I will kill you for it. And show her the private messages you sent me and my replies: fair enough? It's called HONESTY. You see you're not supposed to HIDE things from your wife or your children. Show your children my posts and your posts and see what they say about your behavior. Then come and see me. With your children and your wife: unless you want to meet me in private: that will be fine also. But no more private messages you little stinking scum: I prefer open honesty unlike you.
We stand for freedom of living. We have our intrinsic understanding of moral living, we don't harm one another and we don't steal from one another. But we have been harmed by expectations placed on OUR LIVES that are enforced by our fellow free living brothers and sisters who's option of FREEDOM is hidden from them as it once was from us. We have been stolen from. Our very life is being PILFERED by the EGO-MANIACAL CORPORATE controllers who display little to NO REGARD for the WELL-BEING of HUMANITY or for the THE EARTH which supports our free lives.
We are making a stand against the OPPRESSION that has been incorporated into our ENTIRE SOCIETY!.. The enforcement of CORRUPTED EDUCATION OF OUR CHILDREN!.. The exponentially increasing demand of INTEREST ON MONETARY CURRENCY!... the agendas of TRUSTED yet clearly BIASED MEDIA...
Our policy is: STRENGTH IN; NUMBERS, UNITY AND FAITH. The numbers of natural people who are aware of our oppression, unity of understanding and intention, faith in a natural REVOLUTION AND EVOLUTION of OUR SOCIETY!
Pay attention.
We are a headless beast who is intent on consuming its imposed master. Our RAGE is our driving force which fuels our resolve. Our actions are becoming more and more anarchistic and our desires to create a new society are becoming impatient. We must first acknowledge our opponent for they designed the game and INDOCTRINATED the referees. We are running a course that has only one possible out-outcome which is in opposition of our INTRINSIC VALUES... war. We are leaving our opponent with few options and we know that they have the tools of EDUCATION, MONEY and MEDIA.
I SAY: ANYONE WHO COMMITS AND ACT OF AGGRESSION IS A SABOTEUR! That includes, verbal abuse, physical impedance of ignorant society and certainly any act of violence. DON'T GIVE IN TO PROVOcATION!Be assured that while we unwittingly sabotage ourselves, there will also be infiltrators intentionally spoiling our noble cause. Consider those who's interviews are aired on television. WE MUST incorporate UNDERSTANDING, SYMPATHY and EMPATHY into our approach towards the poor souls who are too afraid to let go of the BRAINWASHED condition of their lives.
We must use the weapons of our enemy if we wish to achieve our goals. The weapons of EDUCATION, MONEY and MEDIA. It isn't enough to say "We know what's going on here!" We need to awaken the ignorant masses by answering their long forgotten, unanswered questions. We can pool our monetary resources. I have heard many talking about closing their bank accounts and discarding their assets. If you want to do it, MAKE IT COUNT!. We can create easily palatable, concise and ENTERTAINING TELEVISIONS COMMERCIALS, NEWSPAPER ADVERTISEMENTS, GOOGLE ADS, and we can PAY MONEY to have them PLACED IN ENEMY TERRITORY. TEACHERS can hold faculty meetings to discuss a special class for the dear children.
For TOO LONG, power over humanity has been inherited by the FORTUNATE FEW! For TOO LONG, the IGNORANT MASSES have served the desires of our OPPRESSORS! For TOO LONG, the strings of society have been pulled from behind the curtain. For TOO LONG, have we accepted the ILLUSION of FREEDOM and LIBERTY! For TOO LONG, we have accepted UNREASONABLE EXPECTATIONS as our own. For TOO LONG, we have donr little more than COMPLAIN and THROW TANTRUMS!
IT IS TIME FOR ORGANISED RESISTANCE!
IT IS TIME TO CREATE A PLAN!
IT IS TIME TO BEGIN A TRANSITION!
IT IS TIME FOR CHANGE!
CORRECT.... For once an activist who is on the streets has come here on this forum and has shown all you fucking freaks what HUMAN EMOTION is... capital letters and all...
What is going on is class warfare: and it is DEADLY and VIOLENT and it not for computer freaks shivering in their isolation chambers.
This person knows how important ORGANIZATION Is: he knows how important PLANNING is: because he is an ACTIVIST. He actually is doing something. He is PRACTICAL. He is REALIST. He faces problems head-on and solves them head-on and does not stop: and NOBODY will stop him. One million of you fucking computer generation freaks couldn't stop him.
Understand this: the people in Liberty Square fighting for justice and a fair deal ARE NOT LIKE YOU FREAKS ON THIS FORUM. They are not little paranoid scared terrified wimps shivering in the fucking computer holes like all of you are doing. They're out there on the front lines fighting for EVERYONE: and EVERYONE SHOULD JOIN THEM.
Whether or not their movement wins out depends on how many of you fucking spineless jerks find the courage to stand up and be counted in the fight to regain control over the society you live in. If the OW movement fails: it will be because of YOU the true 99%: the 99% of the masses of cowards and selfish greedy pigs who have sold their souls to the almighty dollar.
We have much to learn when They finely choose to revel them selvs to us, I know you have seen it to.
I don't know what you're babbling about freak and neither do you and neither does anyone else on this forum.
You will hear my song when it dances upon your Heart.
get lost you fucking sick jerk: you're already lost inside your own insanity. now stay inside your fucking shit filled brain and don't come out again until you're DEAD
Never forget those famous words, December shall come in like a dog unto the lamb of christ, and so it shall be. You must Remember this always cause it is more important every day.
Remember these famous words:
As far as your future is concerned: your fucked
Unless you cut out all video games and all TV and all internet and computers and cell phones and text messaging and going on internet forum spewing your meaningless crap.
The dogs of wall street have already eaten the lamb: you freak.
Some of you on this thread may be interested in the following:
http://www.globalonenessproject.org/videos/whatwoulditlooklike http://www.freeworldcharter.org/
The first one talks about our connectedness as a human race. The Free World Charter is about a world without money. The thing is we are connected by the fact that we are human. Now that the world economy is crumbling we have been forced to recognize our connection with everyone everywhere. It is very uncomfortable for lots of people. They do not want to be connected to others. We have been taught that independence is critical to our survival,when in fact, the opposite is true. People cling to the familiar. We are creatures of habit. I agree wholeheartedly that the change begins within. The systems in place have not been working for most people for a long time, and the people are awakening from their coma. It is time for a whole new world. No matter what band-aid you place on a hemorrhage, it will continue to bleed. It requires emergency surgery. This is the same for our economic, political, educational and other major institutionalized systems. The band-aid approach will not fix them. Yet, it is evident that we all have different ideas on how to fix everything. The only true change you can make is how you think, act, feel, perceive, and interact with others. As long as we continue to consume the products and the propaganda nothing will change. Although we need to be self sufficient and non dependent on the systems that are failing, we are interdependent upon each other. I would love to keep this discussion going minus the name calling, as that does not allow for as open a dialogue as possible. We can agree to disagree. Eventually, those that do not understand what's happening (Babylon all over again), will be forced to join the movement when they are personally affected by the collapse.
BEVERLY HILLS in Los Angeles California!!?? I worked in Beverly hills for quite a number of years... Let me ask you: Are you against all the multi-millionaires who live ini Beverly Hills? Or are you one of them? You post is very intelligent, but I do not believe it came from anyone, ANYONE living in Beverly Hills...
One basic mistake you make is your mindset; assuming the human race has any connectedness, and speaking as if all the world's problems will be solved by humans coming together as a single global social entity. The exact opposite is true. 6.8 billion humans are now more isolated, and alienated from each other more than they have ever been before. This comes from the exponential increasing overpopulation. It's the lemming syndrome. The more lemmings there are overpopulating any region, the more insane they get until they all go stark raving mad and start running in huge mass herds: just to get away from each other... But instead of getting away from each other: they pack themselves into tighter and tighter masses of squeaking terrified mice and never stop running until they all die and commit mass suicide. That's what happens when there is mass panic: the opposite of what you're trying happens to you.
That is the anthropological and sociological reason why humans do not want to be connected to each other. We were not designed to live packed together in huge masses.
Also, your other mistake is: Being an independent as an INDIVIDUAL is the MOST important thing humans must learn first before anything else.. People must learn to think for themselves and act for themselves and not rely on their nanny state Govt and infrastructure to give them everything they want without them lifting a finger.
Self-sufficient communities solve this problem very efficiently. For instance if you create your own small self-sufficient community, the first hard fact you will be faced with is what to do with all the garbage you create. You no longer will have someone towing away your garbage to dump somewhere else. This will FORCE you to become ecologically responsible and stop wasting and stop consuming as much as possible. It will FORCE you to become frugal, efficient, innovative, and recycle EVERYTHING you use or consume. Otherwise your small self-sufficient community will become an ugly garbage dump and it will rot and smell and all of you will leave that community because you did not care for the land you live on..
People DO need to come together and connect with each other: YES. But only as individuals who are already as self-sufficient as possible, and from that: create a SMALL community which is as self-sufficient as possible.
Also: SMALL self-sufficient communities solve the problems you have of disagreement between individuals and their differences. The larger your community is: the more difficult it will be to reach an agreement about anything. The magic number of people in any self-sufficient community should be either 12, 24, or 36 people: no bigger than 36. Not 11 people or 25 people or 18 people: Once you form a group that is mathematically in harmony with the rest of the Universe, you will discover how much better everything turns out for you.
First off I live in a rural community in Florida, but that doesn't really matter. I guess to you it does, because you would lump all who live in one area into one neat category. When you turn us all inside out we are all the same. Where we live is irrelevant unless we make it relevant. It seems that you like to point out differences. I'd rather point out what we have in common than where we differ. I do not profess to have all the answers, as you do. It is my intention to connect with others to reach common ground. When you talk about a small self-sufficient community you still can not do it alone on an island without another human being. Well, you can but that is not how we are meant to live.
Now you're reacting like a prejudiced idiot in order to BLOCK OUT the logical facts I told you. You say you do not pretend to have all the answers. What you're really saying is that you don't want to even LISTEN to the answer. You act as if the only one who can ever have the answer to how we humans should live is a GOD, or some super-transcendent, AUTHORITY FIGURE. Not ordinary practical human beings with plain common sense. You are retreating into a SHELL of artificial self-created stupidity on purpose, using this as an excuse to avoid to listen or understand what I told you.
Ahhh: so you come from a rural community! That is VERY different from Beverly Hills California. Understand this> WHERE you come from, how you were raised, what kind of family you were born into, what kind of schools you went to, the culture you lived in, the values of your culture, and especially, the UNSPOKEN assumption your culture has are all CRUCIAL and very important in determining just who you will be able to connect with and who you can't stand and have an instinctual antipathy towards. There is no such thing as any global brotherly love between 6.8 billion humans on this planet. I've lived in many many different cultures and know hundreds of people from different backgrounds and cultures and neighborhoods, and they all stick together in small tiny cliques and do not allow ANYONE ELSE in their small exclusive groupof snobs.
Yes we are all the same species: BUT... we are not designed to live as one species. We are not designed to live as a huge overpopulated mass of lemmings, we are NOT designed to live together in any huge mass. We are designed to live together in small communal societies;no more than that and no less.
Your other snide remark about me founding a self-sufficient community of one is disgusting. It exposes your hidden RESENTMENT against the truths which I tell you. I am going to create a community of 12, 24 or 36 individuals> Not a community one 1. One person is not a community. Your hate is showing. Look at it, and ask yourself why you resent being told the logical truth that is practical.
A utopian society (which is what I am assuming you are describing) is possible. In the state our society is in, we are so far from this goal it is almost laughable (as many seem to enjoy doing). I too have thought the very same thing, with all these problems focused on money, why not eliminate it? As I said above, this is possible, but only when people are willing to overcome greed and fear will this idea have a chance.
Wrong : Only when people become intelligent. Only when they grow up. Creating a self-sufficient community intelligently through voluntary cooperation is not a utopia: it is hardship. It is DIFFICULT. It is the most challenging and difficult thing you can do... It is also the most REWARDING thing you can do. Living without all your fat-ass luxuries which you have become accustomed to is NOT a Utopia. Creating personal bonds with the people you live with and hammering out your differences is NOT Utopia: it is the most emotionally energizing thing you can do.
The basic problem is that all of you sick freaks are not human. You need to be TAUGHT how to be a human being. You've forgotten how to be a human being. Your mass lemming culture of EASE and LUXURY has turned all of you into spoiled infantile weak babies with no will, no self-discipline, no decent education and no self-respect , it has turned all of you computer generation zombies into mindless android-sheep, into PARANOID, resigned, apathetic, emotionally DEAD robots. All of you need a good swift hard kick up your asses. All of you need to start exercising and eating healthier, and go cold turkey: no more DRUGS: no more COFFEE, no more SOFT DRINKS , no more MILK... just pure, clean water. Try that just for starters. You will see that thist is not a fucking Utopia: it's a return to SANITY. It is a return to FACING the cold hard facts of reality instead of wallowing in fictional fantasy, it's a return to HEALTH..
Money is just a tool for the country and world to get and trade in things that people need and use. If you eliminate money you will need some other manner or form of distributing the resources and things that people need. You will need oversight of that distribution.
With the lack of resources (enough food, fuel, land) to provide for the world's population, a resource based economy will still have problems of implementation.
What do you do in countries that are plagued with drought that have millions of people dieing and starving, example Somalia and Africa?
They have no resources to give to the world, they have climate related problems. There is enough wealth in the world, but those with the money have done nothing to develop agriculture for them. Nobody tries to build pipelines to deliver water, or builds desalinization plants that could be used to separate the salt out of ocean water and be piped into irrigation pipes?
Why? They want a return on any investment they make. They don't just try to help poor starving people, they will only invest in oil ventures where they can make 300-400% profits.
you're thinking like an omnipotent god when you are the most powerless ineffectual imbeciles on earth. You pretend to have the power fox all the problems of 6.8 billion people? Instead No: you sneer at anyone who does not have an instant answer and solution to the problems of 6.8 billion people. Oh! Since creating a small self-sufficient community will not solve all the problems of 6.8 billion people, then why is it wrong? You ramble about global capitalism as if you know what is happening and you are fantasizing yourself as some fucking God tsk-tsking about how selfish corporate capitalism never helps the poor but only makes the rich richer? You idiocy is so fucking filled with shit it would take three pages to detail all the shit you spew. So self-sufficient communities are supposed to 'contribute' to the 6.8 billion idiots who refuse to stop their greed and capitalist love of money? Why? You think money is a tool? For who? for some fucking god who pulls all the strings of 6.8 billion humans? You think that some magic will make 6.9 billion people suddenly change how they live and become intelligent self-sufficient community cooperating individualists who don't use money? Where do you find your fantasies from? Your asshole?
I have thought this all my life. I CAN imagine a world without money and its a much better place than this sci-fi black alternate future world we find ourselves in. money is for selfish children. as long as we use it, that's what we will remain.
Stop imagining and DO it you dumb idiot. Sitting on your ass imagining things is why all of you are addicted to fantasy, fiction and lies.
Until we can get country of origin labels tightened so that we can make the Right choice.
Do the following and encourage others.
-Buy American even if its a couple dollars more. This is the most important message.
-Organize peaceful demonstrations outside prominent retailers. To encourage them promote a American made alternative for every product they carry. Retailers have a lot of options on in store placement and promotion so vote with your dollars and protest if they are not visibly supporting American made products.
-Spread the word. If this movement only did one thing. Keeping American dollars in America then we would solve our current crisis.
This grass roots movement can make a change one person at a time and one dollar at a time.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-war-with-america-was-won-before-the-first-shot
You're disgusting: all you Americans are obsessed about is MONEY MONEY MONEY: you're no better than the top 1% and that's why your entire movement is a farce and a joke..
This is the REAL problem. http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-war-with-america-was-won-before-the-first-shot/
Wrong: you haven't studied the history of your own nation, you don't even know the history of your own nation, you haven't studied the history of the human species going back millions of years. You haven't studied anthropology or paleontology or all the other disciplines of Science that have crucial proven facts which will tell you what the real problem is. The real problem is you don't read books. You don't read period. You're not a curious person. You don't ask questions. You don't go to the trouble of finding your own answers. You expect other people to give you the answers. And whatever you read, you don't understand, and whatever you understand, you can't retain in your mind, and what little you can retain in your mind is garbage, propaganda, lie, misinformation, disinformation and bullshit. The problem is you're brainwashed. You've been programed to worship and obey authority. You've been programmed and brainwashed into being a nice obedient terrified little mouse. You've been brainwashed into being 'polite'. You've been brainwashed into believing polite lies. You've been brainwashed into believing that anyone who isn't 'polite' enough to suit your fucking prejudiced ass must be not telling the truth... when the actual truth is that all assholes who are 'polite' aren't telling you the truth. All people who are 'polite' are assholes, hypocrites and liars. You've been brainwashed into believing that black is white and white is black when all the facts prove otherwise. You're so fucking stupid you don't respect facts. You think you can ignore facts. You think you can invent facts. You think you can invent fantasies that are more real than actuality. You think you can believe in lies and still be intelligent. You think that lying is being 'smart'. You think the more you lie through your fucking teeth the 'smarter' you are.
Well I've got news for you. You and all the other freaks on this forum are totally WRONG.
Hey WOW! love your insightful feedback. I read it several time to make sure that I could really understand all of your fantastic points. I get it now. Live and let live. No point in trying to understand of make a difference. If someone says "back of the bus because I don't like your color". Then back of the bus it is. No point in rocking the boat. I will really try and read all the books read history and I promise I will finally realize that its all Good. I feel so relieved to know that the atrocities of the past and that I can fix everything with a smile.
Wrong: you didn't understand a word I said which proves just how fucking stupid you actually are. I am against the entire establishment and the use of money. Creating your own self-sufficient community of equals with no leaders without using money is the only intelligent alternative to the corporate global greed which has gripped 6.8 billion stupid apes and leading them all into ruin. Because you're illiterate: you can't understand what I just told you. Get off the bus. No buses. No highway systems, no global trade, no energy crisis, no fuel shortages. Stop being a dependent victim of the system you live in. Screw the entire capitalist system: its beyond repair. Be creative.
You can't do that. That's your problem: not mine.
You might be surprised that I agree with most of what you say. Money is meaningless. That was my point. I think that the Amish have a great lifestyle "not sarcasm". My next home will be off the grid so that i can cut the ties to the system. I am not keen on leading or following anyone. But i respect people right to free speech. I feel that as long as my family is clothed fed with a roof overhead and happy then that's the wealth I am after. My only point is help your brothers and sisters next door by buying what they sell if you need it.
And before you get on me about using money to buy it. Trade a chicken or a loaf of bread so your brother and sister can eat.
And for those people that don't want to opt-out then I am only suggesting that as a country we opt-out of playing other peoples games.
I wish the best for you and your family.
The point is... if you study the history of America and capitalism: If you study the rise of Wal-MArt and the mall culture. You will learn that mass manufacturing and consumer capitalism has been systematically destroying human communities and human relationships ever since it was invented. Consumer capitalism is an ENEMY of your family, it is an ENEMY of your relationships with your wife and children. It tries to make you believe that giving your wife a 5,000 dollar diamond bracelet proves how much you love her. It tries to make you believe that the only way you can show love for your children is to buy them shit they don't need: Crap they have been brainwashed into wanting. Steve Jobs that bastard said it: "It is not the job of the consumer to know what they want. That's our job." The insanity of living your life: so what you want is not decided by you means that you no longer have any freedom or power of choice LEFT. To which I say: they can all stick their fucking computers and cell phones up their fucking ass and eat plastic. If you don't recognize who and what is the ENEMY of your family: if you let the ENEMY into your house. If you let your children watch TV and go on the internet: you are just another fool who thinks he can live inside the system without the system corrupting his children and his entire family.
You're still on the bus. You're still stupid. You're locked into your mono-culture of the nuclear family. Nuclear families were created by the destruction of human communities living together as self-sufficient organized cooperative societies. if you live in a self-sufficient community instead of a nuclear family you won't need to trade a fucking thing because you won't be isolated from the other people you live with, and you won't have a middle class house that shuts you off from the community you live in and you won't have a car, and you won't be living in a suburb that needs cars, and you won't be buying or selling anything. The food your community grows will belong to everyone and you will be a vegetarian and you won't be eating meat or eggs or milk so you won't need to trade anything to be healthy and fit. I've been a vegetarian for over 20 years, I'm 64 years old, and I can jog 3 miles without even breaking into a sweat... and I'm not even close to the fitness level I want to be. You won't be watching TV and you won't be using a computer and you won't be working for ANYONE period and you won't need money to live and have a roof over your head... What you are suffering from is the inability to change your basic bad ways of living which are unintelligent and irrational: By living in a nuclear family, you cripple your children by not allowing them to live in a community which has many other children they can play with and make friends and have fun. Lonely bored children with nothing to do except suck on the mass media propaganda and plastic toys is what you are forcing them into because you live as a nuclear family instead of in a self-sufficient community.
My sister raised her children in a fucking suburb... after the school dropped off her kids, the closest friend Peter had was a boy who lived ONE MILE away... Do you have any idea of how lonely he was all his childhood? I was lucky. My family didn't live in a suburb. I had tons of other kids I played with after school, before school, during school break and at lunchtime. That kind of neighborhood doesn't exist anymore because it has been destroyed by commercial for-profit capitalist greed and corporations who don't ant people to be come independent. The commercial world of business has only one agenda: it wants to enslave you into complete DEPENDENCE on them. It only wants one thing: your MONEY. 20 years ago, the degree of that social sickness was portrayed by the TV show "Roseanne"... As a fictitious mother who was NOT working: a mother that stayed home and took care of her children. A single provider family that is now non-existent. And what did her children do after school? They went to the fucking MALL: because there was nothing else to do in her stinking American working class neighborhood. And that was supposed to be an example of how to raise children well! Now, 20 years later: the degree of social ROT and corruption in American society is ten time worse than it was back in the 90's.
Living in a self-sufficient community of many married people who have children sot only solves all of your nuclear family problems, it solves all of the problems of your children being exposed to the rottenness and corruption of the commercial advertising mass media blitz that modern American children are brainwashed by before they can walk. It gets rid of the supermarket syndrome. It gets rid of the evils of shopping in supermarkets that have millions of things that are not healthy and are toxic. It gets rid of the shopping mentality. It gets rid of buying and selling as the only two fucking things you do, which is the sickest way you can live. You haven't BEGUN to wake up.
You seem like a very talented, creative person with LOTS of time on your hands.
You noticed: Yes: over my life I've composed and played my own music, created my own artwork, written my own poetry, created my own choreographing in dance, my own way of living. I'm self employed. Ever take a 1 month vacation? Ever stay up north all week and get a nice suntan by not coming back on Sunday night because you don't have to go to work and you don't have any boss that can fire you any time they want to? Being self-employed gives me a LOT of free time. Time to go to the beach all day and play volleyball and play chess and go roller skating. Ever play chess all day on the beach? You get tanned AND exercise your mind at the same time. Time to go cross-country skiing and kayaking and biking. Time to write books and time to think and time to study history, time to read the classics and study literature, time to educate myself, time to de-program myself from the sheep/herd mentality the rest of you conformists are locked into. Ever have 3-4 months free time when you don't have to work at all? Try working for yourself and being frugal and you will be AMAZED how much free time you have while all of the rest of you 9-5 wage slaves are busy saying 'yes sir, whatever you say sir' as you take shit from your boss and have to keep your slave mouth shut or else you lose you job.
Now I'm giving you the benefit of all my years of experience and wisdom and what do you shitheads do? You envy me and hate me because I'm telling you the facts and I know how to beat the system you're stuck in. Not one of you idiots have listened to one word I've told you. Instead you pieces of shit make personal comments because none of you DARE to admit I'm telling you the truth, and none of you DARE face the truth about your miserable lives. I am sick and tired of you computer freaks thinking you have as good life, thinking your life is better than other people's because you can play with your fucking distraction toy. I KNOW there are thousands of better ways to live because I've LIVED them and you poor suckers haven't. So shut your snide mouth and go gnash your teeth in IMPOTENCE and frustrated hate and envy because I've shut your trap.
But, are you happy?
I've had more fun in my life than any of you working slobs will ever have in a 100 lifetimes. I've been happy and Ive been sad. I've felt human emotions you've never felt and will never feel because I LIVED my life as I wanted to. I'm 64 years old now you dumb fuck, and the problem I have is that none of you shit stinking dweebs want to have fun. None of you terrified monkeys want to go outside and play sports and enjoy Nature and play and enjoy your life. Why do you think I posted this thread? You dumb ass. Because none of you know how to live and none of you are creative enough to create your own fun. That's why I'm starting a community of the few people who have some initiative, energy, courage honesty, and intelligence where we don't have to live in the middle of boring shits like you. The only reason I don't have as much fun as I used to is because of your corrupt stupid culture of greed, selfishness and consumerism and because all of you brainless idiots are too scared to do anything your mommies frown on. I want to bring more fun back into MY life because I know that sharing your life with other people is the only way you CAN have fun. Not sitting at your fucking isolation machine staring at a dead screen.
If I was having as much fun as I wanted to: I wouldn't have even POSTED this thread because I wouldn't have given a fuck about any idiots who don't know how to enjoy life. The problem I have is the system and culture I'm living in. Millions of dead fucking souls: dead like you, dead: no feelings, no human emotions, no human intelligence: terrified paranoid fucking assholes millions of miserable snobs trying to outsnob each other. None of you with any brains or honesty.
I am going to create my own community in SPITE of you dumb fucks and I will enjoy the rest of my Life a million times more than you enjoy yours... You want to come along and have fun?.... NO?... Too scared to have fun?... then FUCK YOU. You want to learn new things? You want to learn ANYTHING?... No?... then FUCK YOU. You want to experience the Pure Wonder of life? You want to have your brains blown by insights and understandings that will raise the hair on your head?... NO? Then FUCK YOU.
You don't seem happy.
Are you happy? tell us about your non-existent happiness you dumb fuck. Are you happy with the situation in the world today? Are you happy with global pollution and poisoning of he ground water and oceans of the world? Are you? Are happy about nuclear bombs that can explode and blow your fucking body into atoms in a millisecond? Are you happy about all the dumb fucking senile idiots still alive and living off pensions while young people and babies starve? Little freak: shut your fucking timorous stupid ignorant mouth. You have never experienced happiness in your miserable life. I have.
I'm very happy, I hope you find it for your self, Good luck
You are a fucking stinking LIAR. You're living inside your own FANTASY. Everybody is supposed to HAPPY! HAPPY! HAPPY? Where on TV commercials?? Anywhere else? Then how come you're tired and have no energy even to get out of your chair? How come even the shit coffee you drink doesn't give you enough energy to get off your fat ass? How come you won't tell us all the details of your fucking lying false 'happy' life? Exactly WHAT is making you so happy? Cocaine? Heroin? Alcohol? MONEY? Tell us all about your 'happy' friends. Tell us about all the love and happiness they surround you with. How come you never smile? How come you have headaches and backaches? From your fucking nonexistent 'happiness'??? If you are so fucking 'happy'... why don't you share your fucking lying nonexistent 'happiness with US? Tell us what you did to make you so fucking 'happy'... tell us where you go your imaginary fucking 'happiness' from. Can't tell us? can't tell us about how fucking 'happy' you are? eh? You are a stinking fucking filthy LIAR. Let me guess: you're 'happy when you STUFF your selfish face with FOOD: you're PIG. For you: food is 'happiness'. You drool over shit and gobble it as much as you can.
How about in the mean time until money is no longer around we devalue it. We could take any excess money we have and put it into a fund were it could be distributed to those that don't have enough to meet their basic needs. We should in most cases have the same basic needs.
You're THINKING in terms of a mindless faceless mass of millions. idiot. There are no ORGANIZATIONS for that: idiot. All you poor people are not ORGANIZED. All you computer idiots are not ORGANIZED . You're still living in La-La Land expecting some magic fairy godmother to fix your problems FOR you... There is no 'we' you total imbecile. There is no grass roots organization which has the entire world's poor within its membership you impractical fucking baby. All of you are ALIENATED FROM EACH OTHER. All of you have never been taught how to interact with other human beings on a personal level of honesty and courage. None of you have learned how to communicate with each other on a level of equality, honesty and courage. All of you fucking freaks are hiding in your fucking basements terrified of anyone finding out what your real name is and where you really live. That is living and being ANTI-SOCIAL. Your fucking computer culture of isolation and insulation and paranoia is WHY you have no friends and nobody to talk to in person and why you are addicted to this fucking toy which does no good and is a waste of time unless it is used for constructive purposes. Instead you use this toy to waste your life and your time and energy and the end result is ZERO.... NOTHING. a waste of time
This is silly. People work for money so than can get what they need and want. Hugs and kisses may or may not be that thing. Greed really is good. It's corruption that's messing us up.
Brainwashed babies and infantile imbeciles like you are the reason you were robbed of trillions of dollars by the banks and Wall Street. You are just as evil and stupid as the top 1% which this movement is fighting against. You have been identified as an ENEMY OF THE RESISTANCE and now you can fuck off and leave because no decent human being supporting the OW movement will have anything to do with you.
Abolish debt slavery. We need an Andrew Jackson to kick the tyrants of finace the fuck out
And you won't get one. If you think anyone in Washington or your White House is going to abolish the federal reserve and regulate the owners of America who OWN your white house and your senate and your congress and your banks and your corporations and your media and Wall Street... you've got nuts in your noggin. Your entire SYSTEM from top to bottom stinks and reeks of greed and corruption. Which is why it is a total waste of time trying to fix it. The only intelligent answer you have is creating your own communities that do not use money and have no leaders and are based upon complete equality and voluntary intelligent cooperation.
I keep telling it long time already. With abolishing of money all these problems we have will never come back. National debt will be gone, personal debt - gone, money we owe to China - gone, gone gone gone... Plus working hours saved on trips to bank, on counting money, plus, plus, plus... Not original idea thou... Read communist manifesto... Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-!!!!!!
Correct. You are right... BUT... read what happened AFTER that manifesto was written. The Bolsheviks did the OPPOSITE of what that manifesto preached. They did NOT get rid of money.
Also: by the time the manifesto of Marx and Engels became known to a small group of revolutionary thugs and bandits and swindlers and con men like Trotsky and Lenin... over 80% of Russian peasants already owned their own land, and the archaic system of feudalism was gradually and naturally decaying into a better system WITHOUT a revolution.
The Bolshevik revolution was the WORST thing that could have happened to Russia. The 1st World War was the WORST thing that could have happened to Russia. If that fucking pompous incompetent asshole Tsar Nicholas had not attacked the Austro-Hungarian Empire, sticking his nose into a quarrel which he had no business interfering in: He and his family would not have been killed, and Russian peasants would have learned to intelligently manage their new-found affluent ownership of their own farmlands and they would not have starved and been easy suckers and victims of the propagandists and revolutionaries who were hungrily seeking to grab power in the power vacuum that had been created by the Tsar's abdication.
Marx LEFT OUT the crucial necessity of establishing self-sufficient communities in his manifesto simply because when it was written... most of the people in Russia already LIVED in small self-sufficient communities and small villages and small towns. This is not true anymore! And this is why these two basic things need to be done NOW... TODAY. Because they have never been done before and because they will WORK. Creating self-sufficient communities that do not use money where there are NO leader is the only intelligent ANSWER and SOLUTION to global capitalism.
Fighting over money and power only creates civil war, bloodshed, hatred and violence Fighting over money and power NON-VIOLENTLY is a fucking JOKE. It's pathetic: it's futile Did Kadafi give up his power and wealth without a fight? Did he give up any of his control and power and wealth non-violently? NO. He had to be killed DEAD before he would give up one fucking red cent of his money and one bit of his power... Which is EXACTLY what all of you OW movement people will be forced to do if you want ANY money or power given to you by the top 1%> You will have to kill them DEAD before they give anything up, and that only degrades all of you and dehumanizes all of you into becoming just as evil as the ones you are fighting because all of you still SHARE the love of MONEY, because you are still addicted and brainwashed and programmed into using it.
I agree with you, turak. Any idea can be hijacked turned into anything: weapon, solution, trap, etc. In case with americans any socialistic idea for them is a scare. But whole world came to the point where the are no further advancement without social revolution. It has to be total. Revolution in minds first of all. Hippies: "By changing ourselves we changed the world". And this movement is much bigger than hippies and global. We need to open our minds otherwise there will be nothing to achieve. Fight for a few bucks is pathetic.
Where do you live? It sounds like you're one of the few people on this thread with some common sense
And here is some note about me also. :-)))
Anchorage, Alaska.
Oh my GOD! I live in Montreal Canada.... I was hoping you lived close to me. Let me guess: because living so far up north, because life is so hard; you are forced to cooperate with other people intelligently just in order to be able to survive. Because your life is harder, you don't take the conveniences and luxuries of civilization for granted. The smaller the town or city or community you live in: the more you are on my side because I lived in a small community once and I saw how much better life was inside it than outside in the dehumanized world of money and buying and selling.
I'll bet you understand how good it makes you feel to help other people.
[Deleted]
ahhh. You're multi-cultural: you've lived in more than one culture and you've been intelligent enough to COMPARE the different cultures and places you've lived in. PLUS: you came originally from a culture that did not have very much money and there was hardship and poverty. Now you are RICH enough to move anywhere you want to in the world and you're picking the least corrupt culture to live in. Well I've got news for you. You're one of the 1%: sucking off and USING the poverty of people who have less money than you to sneak into their community so they won't notice, and live off you money like a fat cat. All the other people in the world are not as rich as you and don't have the freedom that money gives you to move somewhere else. The culture of money you are bringing into the Ukraine will corrupt this so-far uncorrupted region and turn it just as rotten as America and urbanized life is now. Your Ukraine is not invulnerable from the global capitalistic system of the international banks. Only if your region becomes self-sufficient and stops using money will it survive the coming global disasters that are just over the horizon... and then where will you be with all your money completely worthless? If you use your money to improve the community you live in, and do not hoard it and use it only for your own comfort then you will be a contributor to the health of your community. If you do not you will be just another fat cat hiding their wealth from other people and not giving anything positive to the community you're sucking off. YOU did not work and live in that community. YOU did not create this rare place that isn't as bad as the rest of the world. The world is running out of places to run to and hide. Immigrating to another place is not an option for 6.8 billion people on this planet. Your 'solution' isn't a solution at all, it's just a way of using money to save yourself from the degradation of consumer urbanized capitalism and fuck the 99% who can't afford to rip up their roots because they have family and friends and don't have your money. What you NEED is to become part of your community and make friends in your community and work to crate a self-sufficient community that doesn't need money to be a flourishing place to live in. Your ethic of personal selfishness which you exemplify is NOT the aim of the OW movemen and does not agree with my values. You do NOT know how good it feels to help other people because the only person you've been helping is you. I should have known. Russians are the most corrupt selfish capitalists in the world. The Ukraines should kick all of you Russians out of their country . You should go back to the place where you came from. and try to improve THAT community: the place of your birth instead of sucking off people who are more humane and less corrupt than you Russians. Running away from your own community in search of money is the opposite of what I'm proposing.
A lot of wrong assumptions, turak. I will answer you last time, because it is probably useless to speak to person who thinks he knows about others everything. What you are saying here is typical brainwash found in the West.
As proof that I know what kind of person you are, I will ask you one last question: Do you know how good it feels to help someone else? I've never met a Russian who ever helped anyone but himself. You may be an exception but I doubt it very much.
Sure I like to help others. This is called altruism and it is not based on nationality. And you are judging people their on nationality that is called racism.
okay: terll me one example in your life when you actually helped someone. Be specific. You say yoi 'like' to help others. You did not say you ever helped anyone in your entire life. Helping others is not altruism, but you don't know that.
Go ahead: Just one example... you don't have any. I know your kind very very well.
There is a Russian mafia in Los Angeles: it's been there ever since your KGB goons could emigrate from the former USSR. I know because I lived in Los Angeles for 29 years, and I met the Russian scum who weren't part of the Russian Mafia. The Russian immigrants I've known in Los Angeles were the lowest scum on earth. There are Russians here in Montreal here also: I know them personally. I know what kind of scum I'm speaking about. Your fantasy of being superior to the west and then coming here to get rich is no different from any other Russian who wants money. Russians are worse than Koreans: they love money and nothing else. Your socialist system crumbled into total failure and you're still trying to live off the remains of it. What you refuse to face is that immigrating away from where you were born is not an option for 99% of the humans on this earth regardless what nationality they are. My parents were immigrants also. I know immigrants inside and out and I know you. You come to a new land and despoil it and after it is destroyed you run away somewhere else to ruin more land. Immigration to another nation is not how people should live. You didn't like it in Russia. Why didn't you stay in your socialist paradise if it was so good, eh? I'm not saying Americans are any better; just a different brand of greed and a different culture which you never learned to normalize yourself to. You act as if there is no hatred between Ukrainians and Russian. BULLSHIT. The Ukrainians hate the Russians and you know it. If you're rich enough to move to the Ukraine you're richer than 99% of the people who represent the OW movement. You keep on crowing how much better it is to live there so go and live there. I don't like the capitalist system AND the socialist system. Both of them are based upon corrupt Governments and corporations combining and creating a fascist state that oppresses 99% of the people. You think the Russian Govt isn't corrupt? You think the Ukrainian govt isn't corrupt? They're worse than the Americans. They're all corrupt because they use money. Go away: your Russian class snobbery doesn't work anymore because Russia is now just as capitalist as the west... and what's more: its ten times more corrupt. ALL immigrants are rich rotten scum. ALL people who run away from where they live are scum. Only the richest Russians can afford to emigrate from Russia. Only the richest Lebanese can afford to emigrate from Lebanon. Only the richest Ukrainians can afford to emigrate from the Ukraine Only the richest Estonians can afford to emigrate from Estonia. Only the richest Haitians can afford to emigrate from Haiti. Canada is an immigrant nation: populated by immigrants and I've known them all my life: Greeks, Japanese, Finns, English, Scottish, French, Romanians, Chinese, Swedes, Latvians, Lithuanians, Germans, Poles, Estonians, Yugoslavs. Albanians, Trinidadians, Jamaicans, Irish, Czechs, Mexicans, Brazilians, Portuguese, Spanish, Italians, Israeli's, Egyptians, Armenians, Indians form India,... Ive know them all: and every immigrant I met was the lowest scum on earth. Go back to Russia. The Ukrainians will not welcome you if you try to go there and stink up their country. All of you upwardly mobile immigrants looking to IMPROVE yourselves at the cost of others are scum, improve where you live, get rich by becoming swindlers, rackets, secret organizations who get you into a country and help you set up shop there. I know all about immigrants and their little fucking immigrant cultures and how they keep everyone OUT of their little anti-social cliques. I was raised in one, and I know you like a book.
Turak, may be try to read your own posts. Your statements full of prejudice, contradictions and totally stupid assumptions. Look into your background, may be you are from uneducated one. Then you need to go to some school. Did you graduate from high school or doped out? But I like to give answers to such low grades. I enjoy it because you make me feel smart by your statements. The more hate, prejudice and assumptions you puking here the better I feel. Here is some more contributions to your sickness... Read posts of other people here. I do not see any positive response to you here. Give to me a reference to one if I am wrong. Now I will again repeat to you. Let's see if you will get it this time... May be not... That will make you guess what????.... LOL.... More dumb... Ready?... OK. Here we go... I am not rich... I travelled to a lot of countries out of desire to learn about the world. I did not go there to earn money in any of these countries, including USA. I spent money there. Are you with me?... OK... I will continue slowly, so it will be easier for you to follow me. You are right, there are a lot of scum and immigrant mafia in LA and elsewhere. I hardly met any russians in LA. Majority of immigrants there are jewish and muslims from former USSR, who speak Russian, but that does not make them russians. I would guess they behave in such way because that is who they are or because that is how they show their respect to society around them. They mostly would call blacks by "n" word. That is because they do not buy any excuses for bad reputation of any race. But it is them, not me. I understand hard times and bad inheritance. I just laugh when I see stupid person. Because he can't hurt me. His stupidity hurts him. Here is the last thing... Open Google and read before you make statements. You will find there that Ukrainians are russians. Ancient Russia called Kiev's Rus. Capital city was Kiev. How there would be a hate? Or you assume one is hateful to himself? Then you need to go to doctor. I like it in Russia and Ukraine. But one does not have to spend all the time in the place he likes. He will have no knowledge about world around him. It is good to go and see the other countries. You can call our reforms a "collapse", "crumble" or what ever you want, but economies are good in former USSR, just start operating a little different. More local planning, more authority on states level. Less centralization. That is all. Russian ex-president is former KGB boss, but he is good, smart and very respectful and respected by russians, ukrainians and other nations. Watch, russians will elect him again soon. Read better news buddy. I am not running away from anybody or anything. I did not intend to stay in the USA either. Why would I? I move around the world not because I had any problems but rather because I do not. I earned money in Moscow and in Ukraine. Again, I am not rich, but socialist system in those countries gives to me all these possibilities not to be rich and have everything. Are all people in Canada that dumb? I thought they are better educated then americans... :-)))))
The fact is you are a bystander. You are not a member of the OW movement. You are a disinterested observer. You think your so-called socialist 'system' is superior to the western systems and so you look down upon others because of it. Every stupid ass on this forum has some reason to look down upon others, some excuse to imagine himself 'superior'. You are only interested in yourself. As such you are an anti-social person who is not willing to create a community that does not use money. You're an immigrant. In case you don't know: the Ukrainian language is not Russian. It is an ethnic language separate from your language. Go ahead. Move to Ukraine... see how the Ukrainians are like, see if they tolerate Russians living in their midst. Out for yourself and nobody else: like all the other scum. Only interested in your own 'personal concerns'.... Yes. I know your kind very well. Goodbye
Did you say this? Or somebody else did?
I said it: why?
I asked you if you had ever helped anyone but yourself in your life and suddenly you go SIILENT and change the subject? Get lost you scumbag.
Scumbag that is your name. That is the majority opinion here. LOL.
Thank you for exposing yourself. You scum always expose yourselves: you think you're being clever by creating a pack of lies, and then you ruin your pack of invented fiction every time and show your true colors. I asked you if you had ever HELPED ANOTHER HUMAN BEING IN YOUR LIFE.... at first you went SILENT!... no response for days... Now you respond with HATE and VENOM.... You HATE decent good people. You cannot HIDE your filthy hate, it leaks out of you like pus from a gangrenous wound. Once again: Thank you for exposing what you really are. You have been identified and tagged and labeled. No decent human being on this forum will have anything to do with you.
Do not lie, nigga! Swedish people will newer speak racist filth like you do. Swedes are the least racist nation on this planet. If you would be from there you would know who Raoul Wallenberg was and what he accomplished. But you do not know it because you are liar. So stick your birth certificate into your black ass. I never met racist white person in Sweden. So go and fuck yourself!
Wrong Swedes are the biggest racists on earth. They kicked all the immigrants who fled to their stinking rich country out after WW2. I know. My family was one of the families who couldn't get any work to support themselves because the Swedes didn't want any ethnic or racial people not of their own ethnic nationality living in their pure white sterile dead country. Sweden has always had and continues to have the most racist immigration policy in Europe: and THAT is saying something because Europeans are the biggest fucking racists on earth. My family emigrated from Sweden to Canada when I was 2 years old.
Every imaginary lie you have tried to invent in order to deny the truth I tell you is now being proven WRONG. Also Swedes especially hate Russians: they have a deep scorn for them for good reason. You know that very well. Or maybe you didn't. Now you do.
Bye, nigga!
I'm white. I was born in Stockholm on Aug 26th 1948. Thank you for exposing yourself as a congenital liar. All congenital liars are convinced that everybody else is also a congenital liar. Thank you! For exposing yourself and showing everyone that everything you posted here was a lie. I am VERY GOOD at exposing scum like you.
You don't believe I'm white? Come visit me in Montreal and meet me in person.and I'll show you my birth certificate. Filth like you should be gotten rid of. You stink up the internet with your lies.
Hey stupid, here's something you said last week.
Thank you for exposing yourself as a congenital liar. All congenital liars are convinced that everybody else is also a congenital liar.
Using your own infallible logic, doesn't that make you a congenital liar?
Everyone, please do not waste time with people like turak, we have a constructive forum where we discuss real life issues and solutions, not Utopian fantasies: http://www.themultitude.org/
you've already been tagged as a troll: asshole. All of your negative vibes are being NULLIFIED on this forum by ME. Now get lost loser.
hugs and kisses will not put food on the table.
wrong: hugs and kisses will put so much good ENERGY into the people of my exclusive self-sufficient community that they will barely need to eat at all because their hearts will be filled with happiness: not emptiness, and they will feel no inner emptiness inside them, gnawing at them to fill themselves with rotten shit. You see, you ignorant fool: you have never lived in a community that is based upon cooperation and equality; trying to describe what it will be like is like trying to describe color to a person who was born BLIND.
You think you need to eat tons of shit every day, and drink tons of crap every day in order to LIVE. That is your CONSUMER RELIGION. That is the RELIGION of the people who SELL you their shit so they can get RICH off you. You need less than 1/10th of what you eat now in order to have ALL THE ENERGY YOU NEED TO LIVE A HEALTHY LIFE.
The reason all of you are FAT and have huge diseased bloated bellies and rotten colons filled with fecal matter which will give you cancer of the colon is because all of you eat 10times more than you NEED to live. You're ADDICTED to CONSUMING because inside you is an unhappy EMPTINESS that is telling you this is not the way you should live.
You have been sold a bill of goods: You have been sold on the idea that you MUST shop and buy and consume... That is the basic fallacy of the UNSPOKEN BELIEF and UNSPOKEN religion which you share with all the other brainwashed zombies.
And you are not given any rational REASON for this except SELFISHNESS and GREED... You KNOW they're screwing you! You KNOW what they sell you is not good for you! Yet you still BUY their shit and allow yourselves to become fat and lazy and ADDICTED to the shit they sell you, until you are HOOKED: Until you're just another FISH they've HOOKED and addicted to their products. So they can get RICHER and you get POORER: and none of you will ADMIT this to yourselves or to anyone else: BEcause IF YOU DID... then all of your fucking EGO shit act and fakery of pretending that you are 'superior' because you can use money to buy shit with would CRASH.
You're a brainwashed ANIMAL. Studies show that people who eat alone eat 15% less than when eating with another person .When you eat with TWO people you eat 20% MORE than you eat if you were alone. When you eat with three or more people you eat 30% more than if you ate alone
The BASIS of your entire culture is a FALLACY. GLUTTONY and feasting like pigs is your fucking RELIGION. STUFFING YOUR FUCKING MOUTHS is your fucking oral-addiction. Having a tit stuck in front of your face when you were a baby is HOW you were programmed to become orally addicted to sedatives being stuffed into your mouth to put you to SLEEP.
fyi I eat mostly raw and plant food, nothing that comes in a bottle or package and have very little fat. so your rant does not apply to me personally, although it may apply to most people in the industrialized and increasingly in less industrialized countries. we need real solutions, not fairy tales. yes we need more love, but try and understand why there is more nuclear weapons pointing at each other that could destroy the earth many times over. and people that you are ranting against are victims, they need to be educated and informed, they don't deserve to be vilified, if you do that, you loose the audience
Totally WRONG: you approach does nothing but coddle them. The upper half of the human species called affluent consumers are not 'victims' you ass: they are the PERPETRATORS of mass destruction because they are the ENGINE of greed and gluttony which the 1% get rich off and feed off. What affluent consumers: 1 billion fat spoiled asses need is a swift kick up their spoiled asses: not soft-selling them shit. They have been SOLD and SOLD and bullshitted all their spoiled rotten LIVES... Now a few of them...! less than 1 fucking% of the American middle-class!! Have slowly woken up!.... after the fact! YEARS LATER!... that they've been robbed? What about the other 20 million middle-class families thatl ost their homes: EH? Do you see them marching on Wall street? NO! They're all staying away AFRAID! Terrorized by their police state, letting things get worse without even a whimper! And you expect these irate wimps, these 'peaceful' protesters to have any effect on the global evil of nuclear warheads?? If their slogan had been 'burn Wall Street to the GROUND: And if they had indeed burnt wall Street to the ground.... THEN there might have been some positive result from this weak joke of an uprising. You actually believe in non-violence as a way to dislodge the ruling class of the world!? You're living in a dream of affluence. IF after 100% of the middle-class lose ALL their affluent homes and are forced into poverty and begin organizing SERIOUSLY against the 1%... then you might have a class war that will do something. But that will never happen because the middle class of America SHARE the same EXACT values of greed and selfishness that the top 1% have. They ALL want MONEY just as much as the greediest motherfuckers on earth do. They're all just as greedy and selfish and stupid and spoiled as the top 1% is. And fighting over that money will get them NOTHING but the realization that living without money is a far better way to live. But even THEN they'll be too stupid to realize it and they will throw away their new lifestyles of brotherhood and hardship and scramble for every fucking dollar they can until they are all systematically crushed into slavery and join the REST of the billions of poor suckers who worship money and work for their masters in factories.
turak, I agree with many of ur points, like ur spirit to change the world for the better and your acknowledgment that it is a dog eat dog world. But one person cannot change the world, that is why we need movements. While you are active here, if you have time, please visit: http://www.themultitude.org/ and perhaps participate in some of the work we are doing, to change the system.
You're missing my point. FUCK the system, Fuck their plastic toys and their Walmarts. FUCK the banks, FUCK the wage slave jobs: create your own system, create your own self-sufficient communities, stop wasting your time trying to fight a mechanized global system that can't be fixed PERIOD. Get this through you head: working inside the system only corrupts you into becoming just as bad as they are.
BUT!... and this is why all of you are wasting your time and your lives> all the spoiled rich of American middle-class are WEDDED to ALL STREET they WANT their 401K's, they DEPEND on them to LIVE. They WANT their Walmart toys, they're not willing to give ANYTHING up and they're not willing to change a fucking thing. They're just as bad as all the 'special' interests. They are wage slaves working for masters and their masters use them AS THEY PLEASE and they say 'yes SIR!" and will do ANYTHING to get a fucking job... And what for? for MONEY. MONEY MONEY. Any ethics or morals in getting a job working in a nuclear bomb factory? Do Americans see anything wrong in having a nice cushy job in the Military Industrial Complex? NO! They don't give a fuck WHAT they do as long as they get MONEY for it.
The middle-classes of the world will NEVER have any impact on the top 1% because all of them like you are running dogs of Imperialist monkeys who own you and are now taking your homes. Unless the middle-class joins forces with the REAL poor of the world: unless they join themselves to the factory wage slaves of Argentina and China and Mexico: they will be ground into DUST easily and they will disappear without even a whimper just as they did in Nazi Germany. The only difference is that when Hitler put the middle class to WORK: he gave them a decent living wage and decent housing. That will not happen here.
Creating your own self-sufficient community SOLVES ALL YOUR FUCKING PROBLEMS you dunderhead. That means you do the OPPOSITE of working in the system: you live OUTSIDE the system and let the system go to hell. I'm sick and tired of all of imbeciles deaf and dumb to common sense still whining about you fucking system. If you want to fight a rotten system that can't be fixed then don't waste my time with your bullshit
You're missing my point. FUCK the system, Fuck their plastic toys and their Walmarts. FUCK the banks, FUCK the wage slave jobs: create your own system, create your own self-sufficient communities, stop wasting your time trying to fight a mechanized global system that can't be fixed PERIOD. Get this through you head: working inside the system only corrupts you into becoming just as bad as they are.
BUT!... and this is why all of you are wasting your time and your lives> all the spoiled rich of American middle-class are WEDDED to ALL STREET they WANT their 401K's, they DEPEND on them to LIVE. They WANT their Walmart toys, they're not willing to give ANYTHING up and they're not willing to change a fucking thing. They're just as bad as all the 'special' interests. They are wage slaves working for masters and their masters use them AS THEY PLEASE and they say 'yes SIR!" and will do ANYTHING to get a fucking job... And what for? for MONEY. MONEY MONEY. Any ethics or morals in getting a job working in a nuclear bomb factory? Do Americans see anything wrong in having a nice cushy job in the Military Industrial Complex? NO! They don't give a fuck WHAT they do as long as they get MONEY for it.
The middle-classes of the world will NEVER have any impact on the top 1% because all of them like you are running dogs of Imperialist monkeys who own you and are now taking your homes. Unless the middle-class joins forces with the REAL poor of the world: unless they join themselves to the factory wage slaves of Argentina and China and Mexico: they will be ground into DUST easily and they will disappear without even a whimper just as they did in Nazi Germany. The only difference is that when Hitler put the middle class to WORK: he gave them a decent living wage and decent housing. That will not happen here.
Creating your own self-sufficient community SOLVES ALL YOUR FUCKING PROBLEMS you dunderhead. That means you do the OPPOSITE of working in the system: you live OUTSIDE the system and let the system go to hell. I'm sick and tired of all of imbeciles deaf and dumb to common sense still whining about you fucking system. If you want to fight a rotten system that can't be fixed then don't waste my time with your bullshit
is it ok to ask what is your age range, teens, 20's, 30's? and how many countries have you been to? you cannot suggest solution for humanity and the world without sufficiently knowing the planet, its people and its systems. I agree that it is screwed up, but being angry and calling people names does not solve worlds problems, I am sorry to say. You have energy, put them to good use. sorry to have intruded in your thread. good luck in changing the world by just living in self-sufficient communes.
First: on the last post I did not call ANYONE a name: but I will on this post... You stupid, stupid, stupid STUPID fucking IDIOT: am NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT trying to change the world... you STUPID FUCKING DOLT
YOU ARE
YOU are trying to change the entire fucking world: NOT ME
GET THAT THROUGH YOUR FUCKING STUPID BRAIN
I am NOT trying to 'solve the world's problems' you fucking IMBECILE
YOU ARE
and you will FAIL
Because NO one person can solve the problems of 6.8 BILLION idiots who are just as fucking STUPID as YOU are.
By me living in a small self-sufficient community along with other intelligent mature adults who are fucking STUPID IDIOTS like you are.... I don't have any need to DEAL with all of you fucking STUPID ASSES anymore because I will not be AFFECTED by any of your STUPID destructive efforts to destroy your own eco-systems because I will be managing my OWN community so it supports US and we support the LAND we live on. Which none of you DO because all of you are so fucking STUPID and asinine: that none of you want to ADMIT that living in a community that is self-sufficient SOLVES YOUR PERSONAL LIFE PROBLEMS
Only fucking insane assholes like YOU believe they can 'solve the world's problems'. You want to solve China's problems? jackass? Go over to China and tell them 2 BILLION Chinese they're doing everything wrong and see how long you stay out of JAIL. Go to Saudi Arabia and tell theme how they're doing it all wrong and see how long you still have a HEAD: you fucking JACKASS.
The only problems you are designed to solve are your OWN problems: you fucking twit: and you don't want to even FACE or ADMIT your own problems: That is YOUR fucking problem> NOT MINE. Now get the fuck LOST and go fucking 'solve the world's problems' and don't fucking come on this thread again. Idiots like you need to be wiped off this planet, you're WAY too fucking stupid to even deserve to EXIST. How you ever managed to learn how to tie your own shoelaces is a fucking MIRACLE.
so now we have it, a brain damaged kid who thinks he knows what he is doing and everyone else is good for nothing.
to avoid people like these who contribute nothing and is glad that this site tolerates people like these please visit: http://www.themultitude.org/ where people like him will be banned in a mili second.
you are a fucking TROLL: I am 64 years old and I know what I speak of when I call you trolls STUPID IMBECILES.
I told you to not come on this thread again asshole. This thread is MY thread and MY issue and MY explanation of how to solve people's problems with the top 1%
You go back to your fucking troll stations where all you mindless brainless jackasses can babble together like the bunch of brainless imbeciles you are and GET OFF MY THREAD: understand?
get it through your thick head, old man, you have lost it. You don't own this or any other thread, me or anyone else will come and comment as we please, ban me if you can, understand?
you know nothing about anything to tell people about anything. and oh please don't make us laugh.
You're a TROLL: you have been IDENTIFIED. No decent person will have anything to do with you. Now you can leave knowing that we know what you are. This thread is a CONSTRUCTIVE thread: not for troll assholes like you, now get lost.
Turak may be the dumbest person in the movement. This post would be hysterical, except I think he's serious. "ltes base an economy on hugs and kisses.. You should have gotten those from your Mommie LOl Please everyone..FOCUS...We started the "Occupy the White House" on nov 6th, but were interfered with a mis-guided Obama - backed DNC funded protest about something called "Keystone". I think Turak was there with a hundred or so of his "Hugs and kisses" brigade holding hands...OWH was about letting the President and Congress know that he is a guest in Our House..The White House is the peoples house. This Movement OWh must move forward, but "secret " OWS General Assembly meetings with Obama supporters in the DNC have all but hyjacked the "Occupy the White House" movement. DOn't let this happen anymore. I was there in Washington in Liberty Park and at the fence and overheard people laughing about this.. Don't be fooled..We must confront the GA OWS and get them back on track with the OWh final step Now!! Peace to All!!
It is your entire movement that is the dumbest thing in the world: years after you were robbed,: you want the money back?? When the entire status quo is against you? And you think your whining about money and living like homeless bums on the street will do anything positive? The only positive things you have achieved is unconsciously, blindly, coming together at grass roots levels and organizing yourselves into small communities that don't have any leaders where all of you are equal to each other. THAT is you acheivement. But it is doomed to be turned into a farce because you're not planning it for the long haul. How long are you going to sleep on the street? Until the snow comes? THEN WHAT? You've wasted all your energy creating a community that will DISSOLVE because you can't live the rest of your life camping out on the street downtown. NOW... if you had done the exact same thing somewhere else! If you had organized yourselves as equals with no leaders as far away from Wall Street as possible! Then you would have had something that you could build upon and make it LAST. A community of equals with no leaders has NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE. All you're missing is the correct intelligent goal to stop using money and become self-sufficient as a community: and all your PERSONAL problems are SOLVED, and what is best: you don't need to fight ANYBODY to do this successfully. Your basic motive of envy and greed fighting over money is what will destroy your own movement. FUCK the money. FUCK the 1% FUCK the establishment. Wake up and look at hat is happening! You're creating your own cooperative communities and helping each other and you don't NEED the money they robbed you of to do it! Hell, you can start your own credit union and not use the big banks! You want to get rid of the Federal Reserve? Stop using money and they are DEAD. You want to stop WalMart? Don't buy anything from WalMArt: boycott it, and WalMart will DIE so fast you will be amazed. Create your own communities without using money and all your goals will be reached. Keep on fighting the richest most arrogant powerful assholes on earth for money and your whole movement will FAIL and you will have civil war, hatred, class warfare, chaos and bloodshed.
[Deleted]
First I am not in your movement. Second I'm a Canadian and don't live in our fucked-up country. Third: if you seriously want to effect change in your country then your movement should be named: "BURN WALLSTREET TO THE GROUND" not 'occupy' it... you fucking bunch of wimps. Fourth: until you idiots wake up to what really matters: you will waste your lives wrangling over money.
What you do not understand is that your entire MOVEMENT is dumb. It is the dumbest movement that was ever invented by a bunch of babies crying over being LEGALLY robbed by the top 1%.
Where were all of you when the robbery was happening eh? Where were all of you when they robbed you eh? You start fucking complaining YEARS! after it happened to you?? And you expect anyone to listen to you? You're an embarrassment to the whole world. Billions of people are poorer than you are and they are not protesting their poverty, expecting the system to save them from themselves. Suck it up and do something constructive for a change like working to found your own communities and stop sleep on the streets like a bunch of homeless bums. Organize yourselves first... FIRST you idiots before you come out yammering in a mindless mob. Not after. Mobs can't be organized intelligently and neither will your movement be organized intelligently. Millions of selfish people: EACH! with their own fucking 'special' agenda...! EACH arguing with the others!... EACH ONE! disagreeing with the others about everything! You call that an organized movement? It's a CIRCUS.
So I guess your Stupid comments were just a poor attempt at sarcasm? Hope your Hugs and kisses movement works for you in Canada where you belong. Lol!!!
"When the accumulation of wealth is no longer of high social importance, there will be great changes in the code of morals. We shall be able to rid ourselves of many of the pseudo-moral principles which have hag-ridden us for two hundred years, by which we have exalted some of the most distasteful of human qualities into the position of the highest virtues. We shall be able to afford to dare to assess the money-motive at its true value.
The love of money as a possession — as distinguished from the love of money as a means to the enjoyments and realities of life — will be recognised for what it is, a somewhat disgusting morbidity, one of those semi-criminal, semi-pathological propensities which one hands over with a shudder to the specialists in mental disease. ... But beware! The time for all this is not yet. For at least another hundred years we must pretend to ourselves and to everyone that fair is foul and foul is fair; for foul is useful and fair is not. Avarice and usury and precaution must be our gods for a little longer still. For only they can lead us out of the tunnel of economic necessity into daylight. "
--John Maynard Keynes, 1930
total bullshit. Take your 100 years and stick them up your ass. Your post exposes the truth: John Maynard Keynes: the most famous economist in history admits the complete corruption and evil of the system he devised...
And then begs people not to throw it out too soon? Does he give any reason for not throwing it out? NO. Does he explain why people must endure this crapo system any longer? NO. Does he give ANY explanation as to why it should not be junked now? NO. NO. NO. NO.
And YOU: you fucking brainless donkey, are too fucking stupid to even understand that Keynes has hung himself by his own words? And YOU fucking conforming sheep are willing to follow his 'suggestion' as if it were a fucking religious decree brought down from God almighty himself?
You fucking stinking idiots: you're exposing your idiocy bare-assed to everyone who reads your post, and you don't even realize how bare-assed your irrational you are.
Its a MONETARY economy, not a MONEY economy. Why should i trust you to overthrow MY government when you don't even use correct grammar. And also paying for something in hugs and kisses? Really. How would i pay for my house? Here's two hundred and fifty thousand hugs and kisses. The fact that me, or anyone for that matter, would support this logic is beyond idiotic. If you hate America so much, move to a small village in Africa where people don't use currency. Move to a village, or country for that matter, where they barter for goods. But don't overthrow my beautiful country because you think hugs and kisses would be a good monetary system.
Its a MONETARY economy, not a MONEY economy. Why should i trust you to overthrow MY government when you don't even use correct grammar. And also paying for something in hugs and kisses? Really. How would i pay for my house? Here's two hundred and fifty thousand hugs and kisses. The fact that me, or anyone for that matter, would support this logic is beyond idiotic. If you hate America so much, move to a small village in Africa where people don't use currency. Move to a village, or country for that matter, where they barter for goods. But don't overthrow my beautiful country because you think hugs and kisses would be a good monetary system.
Its a MONETARY economy, not a MONEY economy. Why should i trust you to overthrow MY government when you don't even use correct grammar. And also paying for something in hugs and kisses? Really. How would i pay for my house? Here's two hundred and fifty thousand hugs and kisses. The fact that me, or anyone for that matter, would support this logic is beyond idiotic. If you hate America so much, move to a small village in Africa where people don't use currency. Move to a village, or country for that matter, where they barter for goods. But don't overthrow my beautiful country because you think hugs and kisses would be a good monetary system.
First: creating a successful self-sufficient community that does not use money does not and cannot threaten your fucking corrupt Govt. You're over-reacting: like all jerks who are spoiled fat lazy and smug and arrogant and addicted to material possessions and ease: you're the middle-class that is being systematially wiped out: Over 20 million middle-class families have lost their homes and are now in their cars or living with their mommies and you don't give a fuck and you are still too arrogant, selfish and smug to realize that YOU'RE NEXT... If you want to direct your fear intelligently: direct it to the banks and insurance corporations o America who are repossessing your homes: not me. That's what the OW movement is doing. THEY found out who really owns and controls your fucking corrupt bought-and-paid-for American Govt ... and it sure as hell isn't me or any self-sufficient community that does not use money. Now fuck off. Imbeciles like you are the reason your country is going down the drain.
lets be friends! Yes great! Lets starve to death the 1%!! Yes friends. Sounds like the start of a communism! Killing people!? yep communism.
Wrong. Self-sufficient communities do not starve: they keep to themselves and let the rest of you sheep starve. They have nothing to do with your wrangling over money or anything to do with your 1% who have most of the money in ht eworld and will not give you one cent of it back. Self-sufficient communities that do not use money are a NEW kind of social way of life that solves every problem which you capitalists killing each other over money are beset with.
name one community who has EVER been close to what you say.
you wouldn't give your children a free game if your earth was your father yous sick disgusting rotten greedy people! You all Caused this........
Children create their own games naturally: Children like to play outside without being given plastic toys. Children like to exerise their healthy young bodies outdoors because that is how they were designed to live. The only time you will ever see children that are happy and heal;thy and smiling and giggling is when they are outside playing their own games without any plastic toys.
Apparently your parents never let you play outside: as did millions of other idiots who scarred and twisted and stunted and damaged their children for LIFE never allowing them any freedom to create their own happiness.
How do I pay the power company to keep my lights on?
If you create a self-sufficient community: you stop living inside the mass-manufactured womb you're living inside now and you create a new environment for yourself and the people you are living with. Whether you need electricity or not is up to you and to be decided in the planning stages of the formation of your self-sufficient community. If you DO decide you want electricity: they you will have to provide it yourself without sucking on any outside grid outside your community. This has been done thousands of different ways by many people ans by many communities all over the world already.
But what you must understand before you create a self-sufficient community is that nobody will do anything for you. Anything you want: you will have to do yourself. Anything you want you will have to create yourself. Since you do not know how to create or do anything: this lets you out of the entire project: so go back to your boob tube and veg out: zombie.
So you want us to go back in time and become cavemen?
I think you should get off your computer and the internet "being that you didn't make the computer and all the parts and the infrastructure of the internet" and go get a job.
You are looking at it ass-backwards: the only alternative to the present that you see is the PAST. I'm looking to the FUTURE which has not been created yet. And get off this thread: you're a fucking troll and you contribute MINUS ZERO to your society.
i applaud ths love-driven msg bt i'll take the middle road: "caring capitalism" cos you can't develop anti-cancer drugs on kisses (ok, ok with more love around cancer rates may fall) etc. check out these 7 questions & if you answer yes to most of them, you shd check out the website tocamu.com which makes a lot of sense to me. uniting behind a new symbol like they did in the vietnam war behing the peace sign...
http://www.tocamu.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Questions.png
capitalist consumer society CREATES cancer. The entire culture of modern greed is a CANCER: unless you realize that you will die of it.
I'm not sure there is actually any money as in terms of something of value. All of it is just blips on a computer screen in the form of numbers. Banks seem to have the power to create those blips with nothing backing them up...a sort of smoke and mirrors monetary system. Very strange.
Hey I'm with you..But I don't want the 1% to die and maybe I can't deal with getting hugs and kisses as a means of transaction (I'm slightly paranoid of disease). The current system of monetarism is collapsing in on itself, you just have to wait..People will come back to their senses and realize that family and friends....basically, people are the most important thing..
I realize what the elite want to do...You, I and this OWS movement must fight these people...It's not a matter of who has more money or that it needs to be redistributed.(It already has been redistributed to the top). It's about how a certain sector of that 1% "made" their money while destroying the economy at the same time.
Just wait...Rome is burning as our "leaders" play violin...When it all falls apart, we'll have to get into a new more localized sort of economy.
Yeah, sure: just sit on your ass: do nothing, and everything will turn out fine. That's how you got robbed of trillions of dollars idiot. The OW movement is TL2: too little, too late. Where were they and you when the robbery was going on, eh? I'll tell you where you were: you were sitting on your ass doing nothing in front of your computer and your TV.
What the fuck are you doing besides bitching? Hey we all got conned..We all thought that by contributing to our 401K's we were doing the right fucking thing..Surprise.
I was writing about it after it happened and you know what, it takes a long time for people to be convinced that what they "believed" in was BS. People looked at you and me like we were fucking nuts for telling them the've been conned, ripped off, fucked over..
Yea it's all a little too late. You betcha. Are you going to fight or fucking bitch..Let me know.
Nothing will turn out "fine" ..Your going to die motherfucker and so will I.. What we do in between is what counts...Now I said I was with you and I'm getting pretty fucking old myself and I've got real important people with a possible future to take care of..Now tell me what you want to fucking do!
You're getting me mixed up with the OW movement. This thread began with me telling the OW movement that they were missing the point wrangling about money. The answer to global capitalism is to create your own self-sufficient community that does not use money. Read my posts and you will understand what I am saying.
Look you are mixed up with this movement..You're on this forum. What I'm saying to you is this..people live in this fucked up reality that's been presented to them from birth...It's going to take a while to change..People are just so conditioned...
You won't have to worry so much about people making the right decision..They won't have to..Nature, God, whatever you want to call it is going to perform it's own little balancing act..I don't know if you sense that..
But I feel this at the top of my throat and the elites running away with whatever they can is a confirmation of my intuitive sense that we are in bigger trouble than just the USA falling off the cliff...From my perspective, it's a shame, but the story is bigger than that..
There is something very wrong...People are running from a danger yet unseen and the people who can, are taking the most they can and don't seem to care what others think and there is no justice..Our government is allowing it.
All this leads me to believe there is more to this than meets the eye..Like I said, people may not have a choice but to do what you propose, without electricity, people will have little choice.
You're looking at it from the wrong perspective. Living without electricity is a good thing. Not a bad thing. Did you know that there is a moratorium on building more hydro-electric dams in the USA? The dams are silting up. they will soon be useless. Egypt's entire farming economy was destroyed by the Aswan dam and the only answer to this economic catastrophe is taking that dam DOWN. The cultural idea that the less you do, the more you sit on your ass the more 'superior' you are is FINISHED. The idea that the more you buy, the more money you spend the more you consume makes you 'superior' is FINISHED. Rather than worry about what 6.8 billion freaked out apes are doing: I would suggest to you that creating your own self-sufficient community NOW... before the shit hits the fan is the most intelligent thing you can do. If you sit around and wait until it all crashes you will look back and kick yourself for not doing it NOW..
Did not say losing electricity would be a bad thing, I said "people would have little choice'"...The lack of electricity would bring benefits and problems..Lot's of problems and death..
I started 2yrs ago with being more self-sufficient and getting people together in what I call the Emergency Preparedness Meeting. It's tough.
I don't know if you are married, but between my wife and I we are living on two different worlds..She a suburbanite try to figure out how to con her husband into getting a pool in the backyard..and me, I just want her and my boy...I'm a simple man, with simple needs in a complex situation and world...
If you're not on the same page with your wife: you already have a huge insurmountable problem. If married couples can't agree on how they want to live: what hope is there for you to cooperate with anyone else? If you and your wife can't see eye-to-eye: then you're fucked. What do stand for? Allowing women to rule the roost is the reason all North American males are pussy-whipped sheep. Divorce her and get custody of your child and THEN you can work on creating a community your child will want to live in. Otherwise you're compromising your morals and ethics and you can't look yourself in the mirror.
Nah..I'll keep her...She's a good person..We see eye to eye on plenty of things...No one really rules the roost, and in marriage, you better be willing to compromise and my son deserves a mom also..
Aside from that, I took a vow years ago, that I'd never walk away from her...If I have to die to keep that promise, I will.
You caving in to her is not a compromise: it's giving up all your own values and ethics. Either you have the courage of your convictions or you don't. The bondage of marriage is a farce. The history of the tradition of marriage comes from the bond slave. Slaves were once forced to swear oaths of allegiance and obedience to their masters. The Christian church took this neat idea of getting their slaves to enslave themselves and created their own custom of bond-slavery. A piece of paper does not mean shit.
Only if two people agree to commit to each other as equals does the bond of matrimony BARELY work. You were never designed to have only one female in your life: you were designed to have TWO girls to love at all times... and they are designed to have TWO boys to love also. This only works in a close-knit community of 24 or 36 adults where the entire community is held together in a CIRCLE... by all 36 members holding each others hands; boy-girl-boy-girl: in a ring of connected hands so every boy is holding the hands of two girls and every girl is holding the hands of two boys. Only when you live inside this kind of community will you ever understand that LOVE is not exclusive. Only when you SHARE your love and closeness with 35 other adults in a hand-held ring of sacred togetherness will you realize that loving only one human adult is a travesty of human kindness. This is why I am founding and organizing self-sufficient communities: to teach you this new way to live: to teach you there is another way to live that is a thousand times better than how you are living now.
You'll have to acknowledge that the probability of disease is less, being with one person. No matter how good your relationships are, one wife or husband is enough, at least for me..
@turak Love is pretty complicated...and I haven't been able to ask an amoeba what turns them on. Overpopulation happens with the availability of food, clean water, and advances in medical care..In these places infant survival rates are higher.
About Eve...Men always fucking blame it on the women..Nuff said...They have taken enough shit forever...Give it a break.
People must learn about the finite nature of where they live and to respect that...Maybe then people would think and "pull out" a bit more..
BTW..I'm having sex with my wife right now, the keyboard is on her left cheek and an ashtray on the right and yes as you could guess I manage to be smoking at the same time..I hope you got the visual..
If you think sex is so disgusting...Don't bring it up to me, talk to the a$$hole whole invented it. It was obviously an engineering issue..A fun house right next to a sewage facility..WTF.
Normal mammals fuck only once a year and with only one mate. The human species is an over sexed bunch of sex-crazed rabbit who fuck almost every night. Yu want to give the earth a break from over[population? Then stop fucking all the time for the purpose of SELF-GRATIFICATION. Procreation and sex was not designed to make you feel 'good' every night in secret. The reason the first sin of the first human was the carnal knowledge of eating a round apple was because Adam became sexually aroused by the round apples of Eve's sexy buttocks and breasts. The earth is a finite planet. There are too many naked apes on this plant and we are destroying the entire earth by overpopulation.
By creating your own self0-sufficient community and living INSIDE your community without expanding outwards and trying to 'colonize' other people's land: you will be FORCED into dealing with your own overpopulation and sexual lust and be FORCED into curtailing your addiction to self-gratification every night. Sex was not invented for your self-gratification you stupid moron. It was invented so living organisms could pass on their experience and knowledge to a new generation of living creatures who EVOLVED into more intelligent creatures: thus creating the human species. Unfortunately, ever since Adam and Eve refused to stop fucking like rabbits, they were cast out of the Garden of Eden where all living creatures lived in harmony with each other because they did not fuck every night like a bunch of sinful evil apes. Love is not sex. Get this through your head. If love is sex: then you would be fucking your children every night also, and I hope that you are not doing this, while millions of parents ARE doing it behind closed doors, and are never brought to justice and never jailed and punished for their horrible crimes which they commit against their own children. Without the sexual pornographic culture you were raised in that glorifies SEX as an advertising tool to get you to buy mass manufactured shit you don't need and is bad for you: there wouldn't be the hidden culture of child abuse which exists all over the world.
Using sex for self-gratification is obscene and dirty and it destroys self-respect and all love between married couple. It poisons your entire soul and it ADDICTS you to self-gratification, util you have no morals and no ethics and no human values left except the stinking ethic of selfish self-gratification. Living without fucking every night DOES NOT TAKE VERY MUCH SELF_DISCIPLINE. All it takes is the honest recognition and admission that it is a DIRTY FILTHY practice: which is why it is only done at night behind closed doors in SECRET so nobody can see you doing it. If you started fucking your wife in public: your face would be BURNING IN SHAME as bystanders stare at your filthy animal lust.
Rantings of a virgin who hates the world because he can't get laid.
why it's the sicko freak again: tell us more about your super-genius ideas, freak. Like you explanation religious nutism.... Little freak is soooo sick in the head. it can't think straight
I was only joking about having sex with my wife...No one has sex with their wife after 20 years..
That was a joke also..
You bring up another main reason that you are miserable and unhappy. Your culture has brainwashed you into believing that sex is love. Sex has never been love. Love is not sex. Sex is the lowest filthiest form of self-gratification there is: the lowest Amoeba has the exact same sex urges as you have. The ONLY thing sex is for is procreation. Nothing else.
This swindle, this programmed brainwashing, this corruption of having sex when you are not ready to raise children and you don't want more children is why the human species has overpopulated the EARTH with too many naked apes. One reason human overpopulation happened and is continuing to happen is because humans believe that the only form of love is self-gratifying act of obscene pornographic sexual LUST.
That is the reason that all sexual acts are done at NIGHT under the cover of blankets in secret, behind closed door in SECRET so nobody can see you doing it... hiding this dirtiness from your children who would be DISGUSTED at you if they ever saw you performing this act of sexual coupling WITHOUT LOVE. Self-gratification IS NOT LOVE! It is the OPPOSITE of love. The reason all you married fools can't stand each other is because you are practicing LEGALIZED PROSTITUTION, just like now they have LEGALIZED gambling. If you want to respect yourself: don't have sex with her.
That was the original reason God cast Adam and Eve OUT of the gareden of Eden: because Adam couldn't keep hiis pecker in his pants, and because Eve was a whore who tempted Adam with the apples, the round orbs of her two buttocks and her two breasts. Sexual lust is the oldest human sin there is
Haven't you ( turak ) died from an exploding brain aneurism yet? Seriously keep-up with the ranting. Everyone seems to get enjoyment from poking you with a stick and then watching you react.
truth is not rant: you fucking moron. You're a brainwashed tool.
Ha ha ha ... your such a dolt.
wrong: why are you such a congenital liar? Because you hate the truth and you hate yourself.
Comic Relief!!!
That's the only rational thing I can attribute to your post and your continuing it.
do you have an alternative to suggest? no? how about this, how about evolving the present system into something spectacular rather than just posting something you dont have the guts to put your name to
I already gave you the only intelligent alternative to global capitalism there is. There is no other alternative: you fucking imbecile: Self-sufficient communities that do not use money are the answer to all of your woes. The only problem is: you're WEEDED to you money system: you're ADDICTED to it; you can't do without it: AND YOU WILL PERISH BY IT also: that is your doom and your problem: not mine. Now go away and count your fucking money and see how happy that will make you.
You are contradicting yourself: Inane freaks who are incapable of any sane logic are filling up this forum with their illogical crap: like you are doing. (turak)
RUN ON SENTENCE WITH IMPROPER USE OF COLON.
don't you have anything better to do than police other people's punctuation? Freak: you're scraping the bottom of your own barrel of bullshit
Keep the wheel turning!
http://occupywallst.org/forum/eliminate-the-monetary-system/#comment-284834
With love I have to say that it is quite possible we should plan for it.
Who's 'we'? You are not a 'we' You're a little scared fucking baby going 'wee-wee' because you're terrified of doing anything yourself. All of you conformist pig consumers will never get off your asses until it's too late because all of you are hiding inside a faceless mass of anonymous drone/zombies who are identical to you in their brainwashed idiocy. You speak of something being possible: but YOU will do nothing about it. You speak of planning but YOU will never plan for it. You won't do a fucking thing except sit on your fucking ass for the rest of your screwed up life and do NOTHING. The 1% are systematically taking all of you freaks DOWN into poverty and total unquestioning obedience to your masters, and not one of you jerks will raise one finger to stop them.
Don Rickles gathered a crowd in much the same way as you are doing here. Part of his motivation was to comically entertain by pounding someone while others laughed. He was good at it but only up to a point when people just walked away. What's your motivation? Gather enough in and see who wants to let you scrape their barnacles loose as preparation? Preparation for what? A Transformation?
You say at the end of your post that a person has a choice. He can love money or he can love humans but can't do both. Still have your clothes? How about a loved one? If life is of value to you, you'd have to have given more than gratitude to have either. I'd say that you obviously used enough "evil money" to pay your internet service provider, those greedy corporations! How about enough of it to take that loved one out to dinner, get yourself a pair of shoes or a laptop to type up more of your spew? Do you recall your history enough to remember the time when money was seed corn? Those who ate it weren't around for their next planting. The poor bastards ate their money, you know their selfish savings.
With all your tirades, you gathered the crowd and have been shaking things up. Nice job! Now, what? Transform us, right? Encourage us to hug, kiss and give. But what will your supposed disciples give each other? We would have eaten our seed corn because stowing it for the next growing season would be greedy as you would say. Isn't the real transformation you seek from others one of their not living better but of their dying a long, miserable death? It sounds that way to me. Unlike those unfortunate souls following Jim Jones at his self-sufficient community, most of us that you've gathered here aren't drinking your Kool Aid. You've entertained many of us. Maybe though, you're not looking for many, just a few followers.
Most of us here do love their lives. I know that I do. I can't square it though. I hug my kids, kiss them too. I give them my love and my money too. But, as you would say, I am selfish and greedy because I use money instead of living in a cave with 20 to 30 other selfless people. Get a grip, plowman. The purpose behind your style of comedy is way too black for me. I love my life, my money and my 'humans' too. Wow! What a dichotomy, sorry a trichotomy (sp mine).
Think about sharing while you're still pounding out your nastiness from your keyboard. What are you smoking that gets you so amped up to take a walk on the vile side? You're behaving like Red on That 70's Show, only a Red on steroids, ammonia and a fifth of scotch. Do let us know.
Ungratefully Yours, TheRoot
You so not know what love is and you do not love your children. If you did you would not be brainwashing them into becoming spoiled brats and addicted consumers and fat and unhealthy sucking on mass media.
Second: you fucking shit-filled asshole: James Jones did not create a self-sufficient community: he used rich people and stole their money and was just as greedy a money-grubber as you are.
Third: Corn is the worst thing you can possibly put into your stomach. It has no nutritional value whatsoever. One basic reason you are so poisoned spiritually, physically, emotionally and mentally is because you eat corn. Almost everything you eat and drink has corn in it. Corn is DEATH. Corn is deathsheads, corn is mass slaughter, corn is detached insane. If you ever study nutrition you will realize you are being fattened for the slaughterhouse. Your entire life's savings will go into hospital bills to keep your cancerous carcass alive a few more months. Love your life? You don't know what love IS. You don't know what LIFE is. Your entire CULTURE is sick. Your entire value system is rotten and bankrupt. YOU are sick: and until you realize this you will go into the vortex along with all the other faceless masses of consumers who eat processed food and live a life of self-gratification and addictions.
ATTENTION ALL PROTESTERS!!! Do you really think you are doing your country a favor?!?! Would you like to know what you all look like? You look like the cowards in the middle east reeking havoc in the streets like heathens!!! And you are doing nothing but hurting the businesses around the areas in which you protest. If you really want to do some good, take it to Obama's doorstep. The rally should be in front of the WHITE HOUSE. Don't hold the rallies in the streets of our average american cities where people are trying to make a living. That is my only request. Good luck.
ATTENTION ALL PROTESTERS!!! Do you really think you are doing your country a favor?!?! Would you like to know what you all look like? You look like the cowards in the middle east reeking havoc in the streets like heathens!!! And you are doing nothing but hurting the businesses around the areas in which you protest. If you really want to do some good, take it to Obama's doorstep. The rally should be in front of the WHITE HOUSE. Don't hold the rallies in the streets of our average american cities where people are trying to make a living. That is my only request. Good luck.
You're posting on the wrong thread
You are correct..hugs and kisses.. We now must put a value on a hug/kiss to be traded on the open market..Let's see here a hug according to my calculations is about 1 dollar and a kiss is 5 dollars. Now I think we'll need to expand on this a bit...
get lost troll: the doorway is right there in your shit-filled brain.
I'm just joking ...God, take a pill man...I think you owe me a hug or a kiss..ask me where I want it.
Gotta Lighten it up..
Stick your jokes up your ass. The people on wall street are not joking. The ones who own you and robbed you are not joking. The millions of people around the world protesting against the 1% are not joking. Soon you will not be joking either.
Turak, I've been warning people about this for years..I'm on your side, if your not just a troll:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/50365826/What-is-Nick-Howdy
But now, go on and tell me, how to love thy neighbor and do the exact opposite and hurl insults at me...
anonymous blogs are the sign of a coward. You're a recreation of Howdy Doody the dumbest American puppet show in the 50's and 60's. You do not love thy neighbor. You only love those people who deserve to be loved, and the only ones who deserve to be loved are the ones who love you. The people who hate you and try to hurt you or rob you deserve to be killed. Self-sufficient communities will never accept Howdy-Doodys like you: you're an obsolete joke. Self-sufficient communities separate good people from bad very easily and very quickly by the close intimacy of getting to know each one personally. Most of the people in this world will not qualify for entrance because they are not willing to be self-sufficient. Self-sufficiency is not Howdy;Doodyism. It is hard practical know-how and experience and intelligence wedded to cooperative effort by individuals who are not addicted to machines and are creative.
No actually I'm a recreation of Capt Howdy from the Exorcist..but you didn't bother to ask..I try to put a kind face to the news of the fucking evil that is present everywhere..
I have to be anonymous because of what and who I am in today's paradigm..If I was sitting at home on SS, jacking off in front of my computer, things might be fucking different...ZeroHedge is anonymous and if you think they haven't done anything to get the truth out..you are an idiot.
I'm getting the feeling you are just a troll...You're not with any movement...Unless your movement is wasting other people's time.
Show me your "works" cocksucker.
Interesting topic. I think a compromise is to not be ruled by the banks and/or wall streets money via their debt traps.
To that end, I advocate changing the banking law that debt restructuring first requires placing the debtor in default.
If this one banking law were changed to, "Debt restructuring DOES NOT first require a default", people could actually begin to wean themselves away from wall street's money and have a stronger local economy.
It's not exactly what you are saying, but it's a giant step away from wall street and a realistic move towards your philosophy.
Well, you may soon get your wish since we are printing more money these days with nothing to back it up.
Comedy gold is what we have right here =D
wrong: this thread is a goldmine of 500 assholes just like like you: digging for bullshit and instead, having all your own crap thrown back in your face..
Seriously, why did you start this thread. Are you trying to sell intentional communities or just looking for a fight? What do you propose the other 310,000,000 idiots do while the 24 or 36 individuals live on a farm and prosper? Better yet, what the fuck chance do you think those 24 to 36 individuals have when some of that 310,000,000 wants their new found Utopia? You have seriously got to be a fucking moron! and you are wasting your fucking time if you really believe anyone is taking you seriously. It's too bad, all this time you have spent on the earth and you haven't learned a fucking thing. Your just a nasty old man who has no fucking idea what he's talking about. And there is no way anyone would let you into theri community, and if you founded it, eventually they will throw you the fuck out! Better find a fucking cave and learn how to live with the other batty motherfuckers.
Another thing: the reason you are an idiot is because you only think in terms of buying and selling. You only worship what money can buy you. I am not selling anything. I am TELLING you how to solve all your problems. You don't like the answer: that's your fucking problem: not mine. What you consumer shoppers will never understand is that there is no consumer choice when it comes to the naked truth and cold logic. Facts are facts. Lies are lies. You just can't handle the truth because it spells the end of people like you:
You are a common redneck. When people found and build their own self-sufficient community without using money: it won't be a fucking pipe dream, and we won't have anything that you fucking pizza-gorging, beer guzzling freaks want or can use. Ergo: you dumb fuck: the rest of you billions of loser will go to hell while we are doing fine and none of us will give a shit what happens to the remainder of the human species because we already know know that none of you are worth saving. Got that? The only and I mean the ONLY people who will want to live in a self-sufficient community that does not use money are decent intelligent people who know how to cooperate with each other as equals. You don't know HOW to cooperate with ANYONE. Now go back into your cave and stare at shadows.
No redneck here you ignorant self serving jackass. I'm a well educated computer professional who actually thinks intentional communities would be a nice thing, so would heaven. The only real dumbfuck on this thread is you stupidity can be defined as someone who can't learn, you'v had 1200+ people try to educate your ignorant ass and you still don't get it. Grow the fuck up and get back in your cave!
educated? ha! ha! ha! ha! ha! ha! you think computer technology is an education? you think 1,200 morons on the internet are intelligent? ha! ha! ha! ha! ha! ha! ha tell us some more!!
Love yourself and in so doing learn why money is good. Don't corrupt yourself and your money in the process or you'll become just another Wall Streeter.
you don't love yourself: you hate yourself and money is evil: money is not good you fucking sick brainless freak. You are just as evil as every wall street tycoon because you love money just as much as they do.
So you think that money is the root of all evil? The wall street tycoons don't love money. They love corrupting it. The wall street tycoons haven't made anything. They stole from those who did and have grown their larceny to scale the world over. That makes them and their corrupted money evil. Think about it. Real money is made before it can be looted and made by the effort of every honest man. Money is made possible only by the people who produce. Is this what you consider evil?
Caste your judgement where it belongs. The wall street tycoon is not an honest man but fakes it and forces you to accept it. That's why your pissed. You think that their money is real and that anyone defending money is evil. But I am not defending their money. You can't imagine a time when it was different where people like them were jailed or hanged. Now, the counterfeiters have beaten you because you think that money is evil and can't make the distinction between real money and theirs. They got you. Look at the history of money and learn.
you're mistaking me for one of the OW movement suckers. I do not support them because they are wasting theeir lives and their energy squabbling about money. You're totally misinformed and brainwashed about money. Money is a dehumanizing abstraction: it is one of the main roots of evil. I do not think money is evil: I KNOW money is evil. You don't. Until you learn this truth: do not come and speak to me ever again
How will you get along in your self-sufficient community, you know live day after day? I mean besides your slinging your violent denunciations at your communal brethren every minute, how would you pass the time together, assuming that they'd want you around? Would you hunt? Fish? Gather nuts and berries? Graze? Would you defend yourself from a hungry wolf or gaze at your naval while the animal tore at your neck? Would your community come to your aide and defense or just decide that they didn't want you around? When do you leave for OZ, anyway?
Why do you want to know, jackass. Explain yourself or fuck off.
I admit to that you're on to something. I got to thinking about what you said about self-sufficient communities because it reminded me of one that I had read about in a novel. The book had an intriguing account of one area secluded in a mountain valley in Colorado where some of the book's characters used it to get away from all the hell that they experienced. Apart from how you express it, you have described what all of us know. We're living in a hell of a place, today. You're onto something.
The book you had reminded me of is called Atlas Shrugged and presents a fascinating read about those who abandon a decaying United States. It's been quite some time since I had read it. Because of the passage on their self-sufficient community, you might want to look into it. It is a dramatized blue print but a blue print just the same. As I remember it, the whole book was a great read.
Thanks TR
Before you sink into your fantasy of fiction... in order to change the world around you for the better.... you must change yourself FIRST. You must be willing to learn new things FIRST. You must learn how to become a self-sufficient person FIRST. That is not easy: that is DIFFICULT. That is not for consumers. That is not for computer freaks who waste their lives sitting in a cave watching shadows on a cave wall. To become a person who actually wants to create something is not enough. You must learn how to be creative. You have to actually DO it. And you will not do it by sitting on your ass reading a book.
I'll borrow the form of their slogan and a metaphor to say that you write like a person who wants only to 'Occupy One Place' i.e, the "four walls" of himself.
You're avoiding looking at yourself critically. Before you can criticize ANYONE: you must be critical of yourself FIRST.
This is one basic reason why all of the braindead attempts to be critical of me fail.
I can successfully and intelligently and correctly criticize all of you and the civilization we exist in because I have done the hard work of looking at MYSELF and tried to find what was wrong with me... I found out after 50 years of self-doubt and self-criticism that I was wrong in many ways, and went to the trouble of trying to correct as many of my failings and vices as possible.
BUT... what I also discovered is the REASON I had developed these failings and faults: wasn't because of my intentions or myself> it was because the entire SYSTEM of global consumption and greed forced me into doing what I don't want to do and don't like doing. I don't' like shopping. I don't like using money as the only form of communication between humans
I understand one thing that none of you idiots understand.
The entire human species is sick. All of you are sick. Until you realize this and face it: all of you blathering freaks will be in denial of your many, many, diseases and vices and addictions and faults and failings and shortcomings.
Two Q's for you. On a fundamental level, what is it that you do want? Have you attained it?
PS: I wasn't criticizing you. I am sorry you interpreted it that way.
Ask yourself that before you ask it of anyone else.
Let me explain one congenital disease humans humans possess:
They project their own sicknesses and diseases and problems OUT of themselves so they won't have to look at themselves. They avoid looking IN themselves. They avoid asking themselves any questions. They avoid all critical awareness of themselves. They NEVER criticize themselves. They NEVER admit they do any wrong. They ALWAYS point the finger at others: never at themselves. They ALWAYS focus on other people's imagined shortcomings: NEVER on their own....
This defense mechanism which you have been programmed into makes you an automatic coward and a dishonest liar when it comes to YOURSELF. It has many name: denial of the truth: projection, the refusal to incriminate oneself in a court of law, seeing yourself in others, identifying with people who are almost identical to you and nobody else, the inability to understand anything you don't want to understand, conscious lying, etc.
The point is: I live in Montreal and I will never meet you in person unless you come here with the explicit intention of seeing me. Your life's problems are not my problems and I am not being paid to be your nanny or your mommy. Therefore if you have anything that bothers you.... look inside yourself and ask yourself the exact questions that you are now asking of others. If you can find the answers to your own questions: come back and tell us what you have concluded and we can all share in your wisdom. I realize you are a braindead freak and all of this will go in one ear and out the other of your empty brain, but I have a larger audience who reads these posts and are not immature babies stumbling around blindly, beginning to ask the first questions of meaning of their own life.
You mean a sex economy? I n t e r e s t i n g. Won't this lead to overpopulation though?
No. You have sex on the brain. Pornographic sicko's like you are not wanted here.
We share a common thought, thanks for the link "Eliminate the Monetary System"!
Seen plenty of tirades from you about what everyone else is doing/thinking wrong (including critiques of their egos and “superior” attitudes, which is interesting since you apparently feel superior to everyone who speaks to you, even those who agree with you) ---and some, in fact many, of these critiques of our society in general I agree with. And when I say “plenty” of tirades, it’s to the tune of this thread having the most comments of any thread on this site and your word count alone enough to fill a tome. All of which has been massive amounts of your time spent staring into one of the soul-less screens you despise, typing on the horrible distracting toy you hate, time which could be better spent in a love embrace in the ocean. We've also seen plenty of talk about “happiness” and “sharing” as you hurl vitriolic caps-locked obscenities at anyone who crosses your path, and plenty of talk about “communities” of “cooperating” “equals” when you clearly have a hard time seeing anyone as equal to your superior wisdom or “cooperating” or “sharing” in a simple dialogue in an online community where all the cooperation that’s required is typed words and ideas, let alone figuring out how to avoid disease or how to power the computers you and your intellectual equals will be using to condemn everyone outside of your idyllic gulch. Which, then, of course, naturally leads to the question: are you living within such a paradise right now? If not, then WHY not, since you claim it’s as easy as getting off your ass NOW and simply doing it? And if so, then please pick any random recent day in the life and describe it for us. What did you do yesterday, for instance, or 2 months ago? All we’ve been hearing from you is a stream of bitterly scathing critique of mainstream society (plenty of it deserved) and a few words like “hugs”, “touch”, “love” and “play” and a few references to winged creatures here and there to obliquely allude to a better way of living without providing any real detail. What does your “touch”, “love’ and “play” look like and how, precisely, is it different than a hug between any grandmother and grandchild, or tender caresses and kisses between any two lovers or holding any child’s hand and skipping and laughing down the street? What kind of creative activities are your community members engaged in doing, what does the art look like, what kind of music is made, what does it sound like? And if everyone is, as you extol, working hard and “actively” engaged in “positive”, “creative” endeavors (which, is also the idealized imperative of capitalism itself, no slackers or negativity allowed), where are the limits of expansion? When the members of the community have kids and the population swells from 12 to hundreds, what sorts of changes take place? How are resources shared equitably in case of natural disaster, shortage, etc.? What happens when someone disagrees with any given decision about how to share? Instant exile? They can leave and not let the door hit them? What if they don’t feel like leaving? Does somebody make them leave, somehow? And based on what right or authority, if there are no rules? Paint us a picture, Turak….
you poor dumb fuck: you're a shopper. You're a consumer. That's your problem and that's your stupid fucking brainless mentality. You want to 'sold' on living in a self-sufficient community. You want your fucking computer and your fucking pizza and cafe latte and your fucking cable TV included in it or you won't budge your fat ass off your couch. You want a fucking advertising campaign, you want millions of people doing it, you want the whole world living in self-sufficient communities before you ever get off your fat ass and join one. You want your SUV's and superhighways and movies and your coke and pesi before you ever get off your fat ass and stop living as a consumer who does not thing but shop and consume... Oops: that's exactly what self-sufficient communities don't do. They don't shop, they don't consume, they don't buy anything and they don't sell anything. Face it: you fear change. You fear everything. Your kind is the type hat will go extinct when change happens.
Oops.... your mind goes BLANK: when you're faced with a society that is not identical to the one you live in right now. That's no surprise because you're a brainless person who is not interested in improving themselves.
Try to understand something: anyone who LIKES consuming and shopping and buying will not want to begin or join a self-sufficient community: this means you.
So: you're left with nobody selling you on this idea. No advertising. No persuasion. No lies. No bullshit. And since you're used to 100% bullshit you don't know what to do when there isn't any. Self-sufficient communities are not for you: take my word for it: you will never be accepted into one. Now you can leave this forum since it doesn't have anything that interests you and you have nothing to contribute to this thread. Like all the other attempts to detract: consumers like you are 100% negative and do not produce or create anything useful. People who do not contribute are exactly the people who will disappear from this world when your dysfunctional system crashes, and it will crash much sooner than you think. Goodbye
Okay, still no specifics about a day-in-the-life. That's fine. Wasn't asking to be "sold" on it, really, but was curious to hear it described. And even if you're not trying to "sell" anyone on it, the sheer time and energy you're spending on your "fucking computer" (on your ass, I won't presume to know if it's a "fat" one or not) arguing it suggests you at least want someone to take what you say seriously. (Else, why bother talking about it?) Oh well, carry on.
Bullshit. You were asking to be sold on the idea: now fuck off.
This is what is so disgusting about freaks like you: you're so afraid of showing any interest or emotion, you're so fucking paranoid, you're so fucking terrified of anyone finding out who you are, you're so terrified of even having an opinion you're just a detached idiot shopping. You're a shopper period. That's all you are.
I think you make some great points, your posts are certainly thought-provoking and I kinda like the surly no-bullshit attitude. The sanctimoniousness, though, is not something that seems to bode well for a community of equals, as it suggests you will be passing judgment on them all the time. Like if they aren't being "creative" or "useful", or hell, even "playful" enough. My point is that is the same driving imperative of the capitalist (money) system you so despise. It's based on who is "holier than thou" by how "productive" or "useful" they are. And how "happy" and "positive" they make themselves seem. Whether they are creating ipods or leaf ornaments or even non-material things like spoken-word poems, if their value to society is determined by how much they "create" --especially if this is so to an exceptionally judgmental degree-- this leads to a lot of the same ills you don't like about capitalism: insecurity, competition, vanity, excessive production to justify one's existence, pointless activity, inability to enjoy a moment without some kind of stimulation. And someone is always going to feel put-upon if they gather more wood than someone else and don't get something more for doing so: an extra bowl of soup, an extra hug, extra praise, obedience. Whether this is the case in a gated suburban community or in the woods. It might not be money, per se, that would circulate around this kind of society but it would be several of the same issues it creates. That's if the judgmental sanctimonious taskmaster element was to dominate. Much less so if this "spend all your time creating" imperative was dropped--- it would still have to grapple with necessary logistical and biological realities but the "joy" part would have more of a genuine shot. After all, I'm sure there'd be plenty of work to do without people feeling they have to be constantly "creating" on top of it. People like to relax, people like to (gasp!) shop, people like stimulation, people like having stuff. I don't believe that is inherently evil, as you do. It's when it becomes excessive, obsessive and runs the whole show that it's a big problem. Even in a small community like the one you're wanting, people will want to play with material objects. When it gets cold, they will want to feel like they've got a blanket they can count on being there every night to keep them warm. If a neighboring small community was to walk in and want to take the land your community was on, your first instinct would be to feel like "why should they be able to do that? this is OUR land, it belongs to us, we staked our claim on it, see, here is all our housing we've built, we've worked hard to settle here and it's ours." This principle of private property certainly gets taken way too far by many people to justify way too many absurd and horrible things, but it is an issue that has to be grappled with whenever you've got more than a very tiny amount of people living anywhere near each other. Even if "property" is communal within your community to the point of being a non-issue, relative to other people and communities you will regard it as yours. That's where it gets thorny, this sharing-the-world-with-other-people thing. Not trying to bash you. But I'm sure you will nonetheless call me a fucking something-or-other: idiot, tool, shopper, fat-ass, whatever. Good evening. :)
People like to shop?
I already told you you're an idiot. Your consumer ethic of self-gratification is not a universal disease shared by all 6.8 billion people on this planet. Now get lost: you're REALLY dumb.
In some form or another, yes, people like to "shop" as in engage in trade of some form, exchange goods and services. Whether it's coins for carrots or carrots for a blanket, it's an exchange. People like to do this because the overwhelmingly vast majority of people don't want to (and know they can't) do and make every last thing for themselves that they may want. Even in the smallest and most basic societies, even with extremely simple lives. And yes, people also like to "shop" because they enjoy it. They like novelty, stimulation, they have a relation to the material world around them and they have since humans began. The novelty-seeking has become an extreme of its own end in the way capitalism has been allowed to dominate our society, and should not ideally reach that point. But the human desire for novelty exists nonetheless. People, anywhere, in any situation, don't prefer their lives to be the same every day. They want stimulation, activity, to feel like yesterday wasn't exactly like every day 10 years before it. And especially if they are "creative" like you want, at some point this is going to involve material objects and/or "trade" if there are enough other people around. Some people even occasionally like to shop to do some good in a local community, because it helps stimulate and support what others are doing, i.e. buying a work of art from a local artist or produce from a local farmer's market. Whether it's coins or dollars or carrots, it's an exchange. If the society has ways of discouraging greed and limiting it as an option, maintaining fairness, I don't see what's wrong with exchange. But this is my opinion and you and I obviously disagree on that point. I will free you up now to go take on someone else.
you stupid, stupid, stupid stupid imbecile. IN order to shop you need a fucking capitalist system based upon greed and money and 1% of the people having all the wealth and power. You fucking braindead peabrain: you're a long-winded ass who does not understand that the only power given to you by the 1% after they stole everything from you was the 'freedom' to 'shop' at their stores IN ORDER TO MAKE THEM EVEN RICHER AND YOU POORER. The only reason [pep[;e shop is because THERE IS NOTHING ELSE THEY CAN DO in this profit/greed/ selfishness/instant gratification capitalist system of legalized cheating, robbery and brainwashing. Now get the fuck lost and go shop your ass off because that is ALL you have left of your self-respect.
Money is a religion!
CORRECT> That is an intelligent statement now.... do YOU believe in money or not...? And if you don't... what DO you believe in?
Well, ya I believe! I believe it will provide the means to acquire goods to care for my family. But I don't believe in all of it's hype! Hell, we wipe our ass with the same damn thing!
And I believe in....IDK....hippie shit with Native Americans dancing around a campfire filming from their iPhones uploading to the Internet praying for the food Gods to bring them a herd of deer through camp!?! There's a lot of people talking and thinking about it now, so let's brainstorm something better than bullshit, paper money literally created out of thin air!
In other words you believe in nothing: you're a nihilist, a negative freak. Welcome to your negative hell: you will be living in it for a long long time.
Geezus man! Jus sayin' we should really look at our monetary system. Fractional reserve banking with no real wealth is a very risky endeavor. And I enjoy life!
Then you're no different from the 1%. You just want more money. What you are avoiding facing is that money is the reason your life is so empty. You enjoy WHAT? What your money can buy you? That is not life. That is not enjoyment. That is CONSUMPTION. That is buying and selling. That is usury. That is profit. That is greed. That is avarice. Profit and avarice are the enjoyment of life: they are the 'enjoyment' of having money and buying things with money.
Try living without money: what is left of your 'enjoyment'? You will not 'enjoy' life without your money because you were not enjoying life with it. If the deciding factor whether a person 'enjoys' life is whether they have money or not: then your entire life is a SHAM, a false perception.
The only things in life worth living are FREE. The only things in life worth doing are FREE. The only things that are of any value do not cost money.
This is what the masses seem unable to grasp:
If we replace our current leaders with human beings, they will sell out just as far as the current bunch. Our leaders weren't born sold out. Wall Street executives weren't born evil. They were born human. With a natural instinct to gather and store for survival. A natural instinct to care for family and community.
When modern society was formed, we began to sell out our natural instincts. Survival turned into survival with a little more elbow room. Then survival with a little more elbow room and a nice view. Then survival with a little more elbow room, a nice view, and something pretty to hang around our neck.
Fast forward a few thousand years. With the industrial revolution came mechanized transportation, air conditioning, and television.
We had become somewhat spoiled. Somewhat motivated. Still relatively down to Earth. Still modest enough to appreciate one another, care for one another, and work towards a common goal.
Along the way, the potential for increased personal wealth became more and more intoxicating. Now, just about everyone wants to be rich. They want it so badly, they are willing to sell out basic morality to attain it. They WILL sell out basic morality if given the opportunity.
How can I be so sure? That's easy. Human nature plus years of corrupt influence plus opportunity.
Mother Nature did not plan for modern society. She did not plan on such corrupt influence. She never intended for any of us to seek or attain extreme personal wealth. We simply can not process the concept without being corrupted by it. Without compromising basic morality.
Extreme wealth is the single greatest corrupt influence of modern society. With every 'zero' on the paycheck, our basic instincts to care for family and community are compromised.
Those of you who still aren't convinced, consider this:
If God himself gave you the power to end poverty, bring about world peace, and take a bonus of $100,000,000 for yourself, would you do it?
If God himself gave you the power to end poverty, bring about world peace, OR take a bonus of $100,000,000 for yourself, which would you choose?
Not only is the greatest concentration of wealth in world history the single greatest underlying cause of economic instability. The very concept of extreme personal wealth is the most corrupt influence in the history of mankind.
I speak the ugly truth.
There will be no reform on Wall Street.
There will be no recovery for the vast majority.
There will be no government "of the people" and "for the people".
Not one of us will live to see it.
BRAVO! Applause! Correct to the nth degree!
Which is exactly why I am founding a self-sufficient community that doesn't use money. The vast majority will go to the wailing wall and they will perish from this earth... The intelligent ones like you and me that see the wall will avoid it and create our own communities that don't use money.
This is the whole point. If you study anthropology: you will discover that before the invention of settled civilizations, humans lived for over 100,000 years in small communities of 36 to 24 individuals: no bigger, no smaller. What happened was the dynamic of overpopulation and the invention and innovation better killing tools to destroy and butcher and massacre plants and animals and fish and birds on a mass level of devastation and destruction.
The only way to stop this dynamic from happening to you, is to get OUT of the mass dynamic, and OUT of mass manufactured civilization, and INTO a small community that has nothing to do with the insane billions of apes that are in the process of committing mass suicide.
You will understand this. The brainless sheep on this forum will not because they have a herd mentality and they rely on the anonymity of millions and billions like them for their idea of 'safety' which they religiously believe comes from being one of the great unwashed majority of dumbed-down wage slaves who worship at the altar of Mammon.
You have just made the point for the Hegelian Dialectic, Funny how someone lived in the 1700's called this mindset.
http://web.archive.org/web/20080128195659/http:/www.calvertonschool.org/waldspurger/pages/hegelian_dialectic.htm
you are totally full of shit: you do not have the faintest idea of what a Hegelian Dialectic is, and you are a fucking troll: now get off this thread and don't come back.
You have so much hate inside you. You should seek anger management. All this hate and anger and name calling isn't going to get us anywhere.
Wrong. Your generation of emotionally dead freaks have been brainwashed into becoming the most timorous, feeble-minded, insipid, pathetic, self-absorbed bunch of do-nothings ever born. Your culture which preaches 'nonviolence' and glorifies cowardice: is so riddled with baseless fears, paranoia and mindless terror that you don't know what a human emotion is simply because you've never felt one.
The people of Egypt and Libya are not as diseased and weak as you Americans are. They became ANGRY enough to rise up and FIGHT against their masters and oppressors. Their young generation had the courage to risk their lives fior something they want: a better society.
YOU? You bloodless freaks don't believe in anything and are not willing to fight for anything and the only thing a few of you are doing now is whining about how you've been robbed... The rest of you are too busy sucking on your distraction gadgets to care about anyone else except your own selfish selves.
You think a social revolution will be achieved through love and peacefulness and non-violence: you are living in your fucking paranoid bubble of cowardice and programmed brainwashing. Egypt and Libya did not free themselves of their oppressors through non-violence you dumb fuck.
Why do you think your masters have programmed you into being passive little ninnies while they parade around the world with huge armies and nuclear weapons of mass destruction and tanks and aircraft carriers, you fucking brainwashed idiot. They have programmed you into believing that THEY: the American Govt and the ones who control the armed forces of NATO have every right to use violence and bomb innocent civilians and kill thousands of innocent people... while YOU are not allowed to use any violence against THEM.
That program has brainwashed you into believing the most evil nation on earth is not evil but 'good'... when in fact America has destroyed every attempt for democracy around the world since the end of WW2 when it became the greatest military power on earth. Your American nation's affluence is based upon VIOLENCE and HATE: your American mockery of democracy is based upon military power. NOTHING ELSE. If you want to direct your ethical displeasure against hate and anger: then direct it against your Federal Govt which has CREATED more hate and anger by its foreign policy than any other force on earth.
another genius i see. god help us
Moron: it does not take a genius to understand that life and love is more important than pieces of paper: you do not understand this because you have never been loved and you have never lived.
Do you even know what money is? It is representative of the value of resources. That way when you want milk, but only have honey to trade and the dairy farmer needs beef you are not all out of luck. Not complicated.
Imbecile: in order to live a healthy life: not only do you not need milk or honey: both of these substances are bad for you and should not be ingested. What you are too fucking dead to understand is that it is possible to live a better life than exchanging pieces of paper for services and goods, and it is easily doable. The only exchange human beings need is the exchange of human warmth and human intimacy and human touching: You sick freaks are so diseased and degenerate: you do not know what it is to touch another human being.
Oh, well you and your friends should go cuddle together under a bridge and starve then. I mean if you are going to preach it, you better be living it.
I;m not preaching you fucking consumer moron: That's one basic problem with you mono-cultural sociopaths: you think everything that is said to you is a sales pitch crafted by preachers and politicians and advertising firms. You've never been told the stark truth in your sheltered spoiled life.
Imbecile: in order to live a healthy life: not only do you not need milk or honey: both of these substances are bad for you and should not be ingested. What you are too fucking dead to understand is that it is possible to live a better life than exchanging pieces of paper for services and goods, and it is easily doable. The only exchange human beings need is the exchange of human warmth and human intimacy and human touching: You sick freaks are so diseased and degenerate: you do not know what it is to touch another human being. - You
you're missing something in your post and in yourself: a brain that works.
Anyone reading your insane drivel will realize that all you are doing is MIRRORING ME. This is one classic defense mechanism that neurotic assholes use to avoid the truth.
This is the 999th comment!
Now you can join the other 998 idiots: doesn't that make you feel good that you're an idiot?
Gee it looks like about 512 of those 999 comments are actually from you! looks like you own a majority stake in idiocy.
Wrong: you fucking moron: I am one person: you are a mass of conformist imbeciles: now fuck off, you're a waste of time
Is your overuse of colons symbolic of the shit you are spewing?
When the only thing you can criticize is my punctuation you have lost the argument::::::::: asshole.
I was criticizing a lot more than your punctuation, guess that went over your head.
You have no head: you're a brainless imbecile now fuck off: I'm not interested in trolls like you.
You see, the word "colon" has two meanings. One, it is a type of punctuation, which you kind of overused and used a bit incorrectly, but then again its other meaning is the last bit of the large intestine which is basically where the feces is held prior to a bowel movement. So it's a humorous juxtaposition given that you overused colons in your sentences there, and you've excessively posted the majority of comments to your own article here, and most of those have been exceedingly negative and, in a word, "shitty" if you will, the word "shit" being a vulgar word for feces.... perhaps now you can see the humor as well as understand that my apparent criticism of your punctuation was merely the first, and more obvious, meaning of a double entendre.
poor little unappreciated lonely imbecile: go try to impress someone else: now get lost
Oh well I guess it's not as funny when you have to explain it and all.
Anyway listen I just scrolled up to the top and actually read your original post that started this whole 1000+ comment thread here. That's funny! You advocate a hugs & kisses economy and then subsequently post all this abrasive stuff to everyone who comments. I like it! Originally I just had happened to notice there were 998 comments posted here and I was like cha-ching 999 is mine! How many opportunities do you get for something like that to happen? Not many in this life my friend! So I will sign off to you mega XOXOXO!!!! <--- you earned those!!!
The guy who advocates an economy based on hugs & kisses hates ass kissers! That's fucking awesome, love it.
You're still trying to suck up to me: I despise ass kissers: get lost
Cooperative societies were the basis and height of civilization. Native cultures considered a person who took more than they needed (or failed to support the group) mentally ill.
Cooperative societies have been almost completely replaced with competitive societies that have brought our existence to the brink of extinction. As competitive society fails, we will turn to barter to escape the competitive (capitalist) system. As social structures and governments collapse, survivors will return to cooperative societies as they will be the only possible method of survival.
I’d like to be more positive, but I just saw the latest reports on CO2 emissions and can’t help but feel doomed by the greed and stupidity of man.
You're a giver-upper. You've given up before you even try. Your kind IS doomed to extinction. The people who are intelligent and cooperate with each other without using money will survive and flourish and NOT use any kind of barter or trade because that is an inhuman, dehumanizing form of human cooperation. Now get lost and join all thge other millions of freaks on this forum who don't have a brain to piss in and don't have the courage to say 'no' to their mommy, never mind 'no' to the culture you are living in.
No need to be an ass (especially since you seem to agree that cooperative societies are the ultimate form of human civilization). Your behavior is the kind that turns people away from the movement.
And no, I haven't given up. I have good days and bad days. Today has been on the low side. FYI I joined my local occupy a month ago and have donated to OWS (despite not having been employed since May).
You're unemployed because you use MONEY to define the value of yourself as a human being and you do not have the intelligence to stop using it and stop wanting it and stop using it. I do not 'seem' to know that self-sufficient communities that do not use money are the only intelligent alternative to the global robbery going on right now, I KNOW it is the only intelligent answer to everyone's problems. You don't want a better world: you want a JOB so you can make MONEY: period You have not even begun to try to improve yourself or anything else for that matter.
Another thing which is totally stupid of you is the idea of giving money to anyone in the mistaken belief that it helps anyone. Giving money to people does nothing but corrupt them into being addicted to being given MORE money. The OW movement will only be a success when it stops using MONEY. Billions of dollars were poured into Haiti: Free money!! Do you know what that created? Haiti is now worse off than it was before the hurricane hit it because it was hit with billions of dollars of EVIL GREED.
Get this through your fucking head... whether you decide to create your own self-sufficient community does not depend on anyone but YOU because in that self-sufficient community there will be no leaders and nobody whom you don't get along with... understand, you fucking ass?
If you are so fucking stupid that you ignore the message and focus on the messenger: then you can join all the millions and millions of other asses who think like you, act like you and sit on their asses waiting for a fucking charismatic 'leader' who will lead them to the promised land of milk and honey. Now get lost and join all the other imbeciles on this thread who have opened their mouths and proved to me and to all the intelligent people who read what you have posted that you are incapable of using your brain.
You don't have to be an ass but apparently you can't help yourself. Try not to take down OWS with your self-righteous venom and hate.
In a true democratic society there is room for everyone's voice. Your "my way or the highway" attitude clearly demonstrates that you don't understand or appreciate that.
I am not interested in creating a fucking 'democracy' you total fucking imbecile: you're already living in one right now and it is completely DYSFUNCTIONAL: or haven't you noticed yet that your fucking 'democracy' is not working... You haven't? Then you need a brain transplant.
I am in the process of creating a self-sufficient community that has NO politicians and NO elected members and NO leaders and NO fucking dysfunctional democracy: got that, birdbrain?
In a self-sufficient community that has no leaders: the ONLY way human beings can live together is by COOPERATING INTELLIGENTLY. You total fucking brain-dead IDIOT. This means that NOBODY dictates to ANYONE.
However; as far as all you believers on your crap 'democracy are concerned you are correct: ... it IS MY way or the highway because this is MY thread, and MY idea, and MY agenda and it is not yours: got that? Now get lost and give away the last of your money to bums sleeping on the street and see how far that will get you.
Can you possibly pull your head out of your ass long enough to have a civil discussion? Apparently not.
In a true democracy power is vested with people, not politicians. Another way to think about it (assuming of course - and I'll go way out on a limb here - that some vestige of cerebral function is still possible with the degree of cranial-rectal inversion that you are clearly suffering from) is that actions and decisions within a community are both autonomous and cooperative, and that the cooperative actions and decisions support the group as a whole.
The odd thing is that your very own hateful behavior and imagined self-superiority is directly contradictory to the ideals you pretend to espouse. I can't imagine you working cooperatively in any society, or being accepted into any society, except possibly for treatment of what is clearly a severe mental disorder.
Seriously, dude, get some help.
The reason you can't imagine me working cooperatively is because you don't know me personally: you fucking imbecile. You're another computer generation idiot who actually believes they can get to 'know' what a person is like through internet forums... Jesus Christ on a cross. Every single one of you would shit your pants and run screaming to your mommy if the possibility of meeting me in person ever occurred. You computer freaks are anti-social FREAKS. You freak out at the possibility of human personal contact. You're terrified of meeting anyone in person. Get some help.
You know nothing about me, yet you attempt to insult me with every sentence you write. You transpose your own behavior ("computer generation idiot", "anti-social FREAKS") on others in practically every one of the hundreds of comments you've posted in this single thread, clearly demonstrating that you are the computer generation idiot and anti-social freak that you rave about.
The city has free clinics, and they provide mental health services. Please, for your own sake, do something to help yourself. You really need professional help.
Good point.
wrong: freak: get some help: now fuck off, your kind doesn't belong here
Really, it's not to late. If therapy and drugs don't help, there is always institutionalization.
I don't take drugs: you do. I am not institutionalized: you are. I don't need therapy: you do. Now fuck off asshole: you've been identified as a troll and that's the end of your shit.
You are missing the point: There already is NO MONEY. We only have Legal tender and legal tender by definition is not money.............
Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s.
Not sure why that came to mind, but hey?
Bye-bye troll... keep moving
Marshmallow! !!!
OCCUPY THE FED INSTEAD! almost 100,000 people in NY alone have already moved their money into small local banks and credit unions -
When that number increases to millions, and a team of OWS candidates win the 2012 elections, then we can really occupy the White House and Congress and start dismantling the Fed, first by repealing the Federal Reserve Act of 1913, and its subsequent amendments consisting of some 200 subsequent laws of Congress that allowed the corrupt Fed to set the principal banking laws of the United States for a century., and return the power of issuing our currency and setting interest rates to the Congress and US Treasury and, according to our Constitution, ARTICLE I, Section 8, "Congress will have the power to coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, ...." and "to provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;" THAT'S WHAT THE FED BANKSTERS HAVE DONE...
Since the FED has never paid taxes like any other private corporation in the US, it's time to audit it and collect the trillions it owes us. And just as the Fed banks took over properties that were forclosed , their properties can also be taken as part of the payment for their COLOSSAL tax debt, to the US Treasury and be used by our restored, legitimate gov't by the people and for the people.
We don't have to storm the FED’s property to take it over, we just have to occupy it legally, with the consent of the American people, a truly representative Congress, and a signature of approval by a President who works for the people – and not the Fed banksters.
You're forgetting a few facts: idiot: this thread is not about the Federal Reserve: go start your own thread about the Federal Reserve and fuck off.
This is one basic reason I despise all the freaks that come onto internet forums: you paranoid shitheads only have the courage to post ONE worthless piece of shit... and then you quickly hide and RUN FOR THE HILLS AND NEVER COME BACK.
All of you love trolling and shitting on other people's threads> but NONE of you ever have the courage to start up your own thread.
For this to work it would have to be popular internationally as well.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/end-game-possible-economic-changes-ahead/
WRONG WRONG WRONG ASSHOLE When you create your own small self-sufficient community: you are effectively having nothing to do with the 7 billion people of the outer world.
BUT... since you fucking shit-filled trolls are such terrified mice: none of you have the guts to join anything! unless it's a huge popular international mass movement of billions of other people in which you can HIDE in. This exposes exactly how much of a fucking coward you are,. You will NEVER do anything on your own because you don't have the guts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLwgSMH5Jt4&feature=share
Turak, this is a great idea that I fully support (I mean that) and suggest you try to build it yourself. Because right now all you're accomplishing with this post is demonizing a movement that's actually achieving something worthwhile. Your goal, while worthwhile, is not something realistically achievable at the current time, even considering the time shares that have attempted similar agendas. So in conclusion, stop being childish. Wake up.
go back to sleep zombie: No. 521 and counting
lol. I find it hilarious that you don't have any defense to what I said xD But thank you for validating my point about childishness.
you dumb fuck>you didn't say anything In fact I'll prove it to you. try to show this forum exactly where you 'said' something that was worth reading. You won't be able to.
Now get lost: you brainless morons are overpopulating ther internet.
Why would I waste time trying to argue with you intelligently? Look at your posts on this page, lol. What is this, kindergarten? You haven't shown the capacity to speak something beyond the maturity of an eight year old. Go ahead and pretend like you're making a difference here, troll xD
Are you still here? You're so fucking stupid, you're not even aware that you're contradicting yourself. Now get lost.
Well, I got through about half the posts before I accepted this has be the product of a three day Meth binge at least... good luck with all of that.
you methed out: on a drug binge now: right?
No, you methed out. You haven't been in the least bit respectful of any person who has replied to you on this forum. Not even ones who were in support of what you said. EVERYONE was wrong, according to you.
I've done my bit and fed a troll for the day. Done now. Back to the real world for me! Best of luck with your projects!
Wrong. Total bullshit; you shat your fucking negative snide comment here and left: like the fucking troll you are. You bring no intelligence to this discussion: only another asshole who leaves without saying anything of value. You didn't do SHIT. IN fact all you did do was SHIT here and leave
Okay, just for the sake of argument, which is all you seem to want to do here- why have you not responded positively to anyone, even those who willingly tried to engage you in positive discussion? You are seething with rage, anyone who has eyes can see that, yet you are talking about peaceful, self sustained communities. A real question- who would want to live with you if all you do is express overblown anger? I know I wouldn't want you as a neighbor, sorry. I'm poor and want to see change, but in my very humble opinion your idea would never work on a large scale. Money may be printed on paper that is worthless, but if you abolish money, something else that people would perceive as valuable will just pop up in its place. You can't barter for everything you need. You sound like that loon who suggested paying your doctor with a chicken. Sorry, I just don't agree with you. You want to move people back, not forward. And, you'd have to get the whole world to agree, not just one country. People can't agree on basic issues, and that has nothing to do with money. Just because money exists, it doesn't mean you don't play with your children and love one another. You've got a very odd way of thinking. If I am wrong, prove me wrong. Start up one of these communities as a test case and see how it works. If it works and all are happy, loved, and satisfied, I will come back and tell everyone I was wrong and you were right. If you turn out to be wrong, you do the same. And now, the only time I will respond to any more of your foul mouthed attacks is when you come back here and announce your self sustained community is a success. All other comments, from what I have read, are merely personal attacks on everyone who has posted. You have a wonderful night, and let me know when your project is up and running.
Another fucking imbecile:
You can't get it through your fucking dysfunctional shit-filled brain that creating your own small self-sufficient community is not saving the world from itself. It is doing thee OPPOSITE of saving the world. When you create your own small self-sufficient community with people YOU like... not with people I like: you fucking imbecile of a jackass: you won't need to worry about me or anyone else you don't happen to get along with because you will be living with people that YOU have chosen and they have chosen YOU to plan and create your own society and community from scratch.
The point is: you ass: you will NEVER be accepted into any such endeavor because you're a scared little mouse who doesn't do ANYTHING.
IF and WHEN a self sufficient community is created: you dumb fucking ass: you will NEVER hear of it because they will NOT want anyone to interfere with their community and they are not interested in idiots who think they are ENTITLED to be given any information. You will NEVER know of the projects that are up and running EVER. Understand, jackass? Now get LOST.
This is the revolution.
Don't you all see? This has already happened. We are already living this dream. Simply continue.
Go dream your fucking freak fantasies somewhere else, jerk.
Well.. aside from the clearly satirical part of this post, I must agree. Money is unnecessary at this point in the structure of the world economy (if only we could learn to share resources instead of stealing them). The biggest problem is that those who have more in the way of resources (whether justly attained or not) would still be the structural 1%. What we need is redistribution of wealth, and then the destruction of 'capital.'
Wrong: wealth breeds GREED. Greed creates capitalism. What you really need to do is get rid of your affluence and get rid of money.
Uh ... paper money. If you want to send me some of this supposedly worthless paper then I shall email you some kisses ...
... wait, did I just become a prostitute? Ah well, I'm so fucking handsome it was bound to happen eventually.
hugs can't be sent by e-mail. Why don't you send yourself all that shit in your imagination? That's where you live all the time anyways: isn't it?
Thank you for your well-considered reply.
Oh, wait ...
You're a little late. Marx and Lenin beat you to it. A country declined due to them.
You're a brainwashed imbecile without any education. It's too late for you to begin learning anything.
Tell that to the people who ran out of the USSR while they could.
You dumb fuck: The USSR was a Bolshevik totalitarian dictatorship based upon armed might and centralized power. I am speaking of self-sufficient communities that are not a part of ANY lager centralized authority or power.
Idiot: when you are self-sufficient and don't use money: nobody can rob you of money because you don't use it and you don't hoard it. When you create your own self-sufficient community: you are doing the opposite of centralizing all the power into dictators like Stalin and Khrushchev: you are DE-centralizing power away from all power centers and taking AWAY all their ability to manipulate and control you. Get OUT of here.
That train of thought was discarded long ago after being found a failure. Read a history book...
Get lost freak and learn to read a book
then get an education
I have a masters in quantum mechanics. Good night, kind sir.
you are a congenital liar. But even if you weren't a fucking liar that you are: having a degree in quantum physics does not teach you or educate you about the society you live in and it does not teach you and educate you about the history of the Bolshevik revolution and the creation of a totalitarian dictatorship based upon terror, pogroms,, terrorization of the masses, brainwashing, enforced impoverishment, secret police, the KGB, mass starvation, mass ignorance, and mass oppression of 350 million people
All of which have nothing to do with self-sufficient communities what do not use money. Now get lost and don't come back: assholes like you are millions on the internet and you're all the same.
no, you don't.
Prove it. Serious statement. Prove I don't. Let's see.
First, you don't brag about a masters in quantum mechanics.....instead you drop that you have a Phd in Physics.
At least, be a good liar.
No reply button... Do you know what would happen if you made contact? (This is actually going somewhere, just hold on.)
Well, actually, we are always in contact with everything. Although space is, on average, empty, it is not. So, along that thought, physical boundaries are not true boundaries. We are like fish in the water who don't realize that they are in the water. Read about the Casimir effect.
But I don't have a PhD in Physics. Why would I lie like that? Do you know your fingers never touch the keys/screen?
Yes. We hover angstroms from contact.....electrons orbiting the nucleus insure an electromagnetic repulsion when we get close.
Well, I just bought a new car and I'm happy with that.
You are? Does your car love you back? Does it smile at you when you come home? Does it cook a nice dinner for you? Do you fuck your car every night? Do you tell your car all your worries and problems? Does your car listen to everything you say? Does your car really care about you? Does your car kiss you? Does your car hug you?...
Wow: it must be a really special car you've got there... asshole.
So a machine can make you happy? For how long? What kind of shit 'happiness' are you experiencing? You mean you've never experienced anything more happy than owning a machine? Jesus fucking Christ: I own machines also. But I don't love them and they don't make me happy: maybe it's because I'm a human being and your a sick pieces of shit.
People who care more about machines than human beings are exactly the kind of filth who should never be on this thread at all. You're a fucking troll.
Fucking your wife in th a$$ makes me happy. Ask her.
Your heart is in the right place. And that's a good start...let us not forget practicality...Transcendence is the next stage of human evolution.
If you get this, you're well on your way...
To Wall Street: “What shall it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?” -JC
To the Protesters: "It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell." - Buddha
Your brain is 3,000 years in the past and that's a bad start. Until you learn to live with other people in a community you will remain an ANTI-SOCIAL freak.
Turak. I appreciate your response. Your words, however, are meaningless to me. I know who I am, you've never met me. I can live in a community just fine, I have a good job and a loving family. I operate quite normally in fact. However, until you learn to respect other people in a community you will remain...well I'm not gonna judge you.
There is no such thing as 'normality' you freak: and stop your congenital lying. There is no such thing as 'can' without actually doing it. You're another child bored with time on their hands: get the fuck off this thread. Idiots like you are a waste of time.
Your hate is amusing. You are far from seeing life as it is. Your mind is sharp, but instead of stabbing others with it, put it to good use. Confusing rambling thoughts to an intelligent, thoughtful response is akin to thinking our government is looking out for us. I am much wiser than you, clearly. Picking apart my words for self-amusement shows me you're still trying to free yourself from your pain, confusion, denial. I want you to find the middle road, live life not with anger or mindless denial, but with sharp focus and love. You're just missing the love part.
get lost freak: I told you you're a waste of time
awesome post
there are already people who trade hugs/kisses instead of money for what they need and none of them are occupying any streets
Where? In your addled brain?
you know what, next time you got a million bucks, I'll gladly relieve you of it.
The next time I see you Ill kick your ass and relieve you of your wallet and credit cards. Then you can go begging on the street for someone to give you money
@turak: The problem is OWS folks just want the $1 million (and all the stuff it buys) handed to them.
They have no interest in a life of complete self-sufficiency (which takes more work than you can probably imagine).
Try beaming yourself back 400 years when there was no American currency, and most people were self-sufficient.
For one, there is not enough land for everyone to raise their own food.
Wait...you think you'll be able to buy food? You'll need money - not hugs!
There are many problems with the OW movement: the basic problem is the one I already pointed out in my original post: you idiot: they are haggling over who has the money: too little, too late. BUT... they are ACTIVE. That is the difference between the people on the street who put their life on the line and have the courage to face the police squads and being jailed and arrested and beaten... YOU don't have that kind of courage. As for your stupid ignorant claim that you need hundreds of acres to feed one family: you're an idiot. Perma-culture and modern horticultural techniques and innovations have already been designed and tested . Self-sufficient housing communities all over the world, even as far north as Sweden are already in place and functioning perfectly. From single self-sufficient apartments to entire apartment buildings with no need for outside food or power. All of you dweebs are 100% ignorant of the thousands of new innovations and inventions which have been created that make self-sufficient communities not only practical but do-able right NOW. Why do you children even come to this internet forum? Because you're BORED and lonely and have nobody to play with. Internet children are the most misinformed brainwashed bunch of idiots in the world today: as your immature posts show.
Knowledgeable but sarcastic...not a winning formula my friend. A movement without uplift, faith, and love can only succeed in one thing, attracting the very thing it resists. You now feel angry toward me and are thinking of a snippy comeback, but in that angst realize that you are no different than the greedy folks you protest against.
you're hallucinating: get lost. When freaks become 100% dysfunctional they no longer relate to reality
and see...you're losing. you're running out of things to say. when you finally get to the point where you know NOTHING, all will be revealed. I have faith in you.
get lost freak: I have nothing to say to insane freaks
THis movement wil not succeed without being humble and having humility
WRONG: the only time the OW movement will succeed is when they get angry enough to burn down wall street and the banks and hang the crooks from the lamp posts outside their fucking mansions: Your American pathetic movement is just a tiny financial 'ow!' Realizing you have been robbed...
"Ow! hey I'm missing money! I've been robbed!: I want MONEY! Give us MONEY! it's too little, too late. You're no better than the ones who robbed you. All of you are after MONEY... All of you focus on only one thing: MONEY. All of you believe that more MONEY will solve all your problems and all of you are dead WRONG.
Kadafi was defeated because the people of Libya got ANGRY and fed up with his regime and fought his army on the streets and had the courage to die for their convictions. You Americans don't have any fucking convictions and none of you are willing to fight for what you believe in because all of you STILL believe in the fucking sacred dollar and you still WORSHIP MONEY and want it. What the OW movement needs is a swift kick in the ass. It needs people who have some human emotion and passion: not wimps sleeping on Wall Street like homeless bums and hippies. The hippies of the 60's didn't do a fucking thing and the homeless bums on the street don't do anything but scam free food, sucking off you middle class idiots. You're all a bunch of fucking wimps and cowards terrified of everything and not having the guts to fight for anything.
"Instead of a money economy: based upon corruption, opposition, selfishness and greed: create your own self-sufficient communities and economies based upon cooperation, trust and fun." I utterly agree with this. It's possible and it will happen by our actions.
GOOD! 2 out of 500 agree with me. This exposes the level of intelligent of the great majority of computer generation freaks.
AND... you make a very telling point: "It's possible and it will happen by our action." It will only happen if YOU do it: not if you sit on your ass waiting for someone else to do it. It will only happen when WE do it, when WE... the few intelligent people who know that words without action are a waste of time and energy.
3 agree so far
http://occupywallst.org/forum/i-demand-informed-direct-democracy-online-whos-wit/
Then DO it. If you don't, you will be a liar.
I have read all your 500+ comments (i'm guessing the number) and I've been laughing my ass off. Whenever the trolls or my work gets to me, I just come to your page and read some more - you're so VIOLENTLY frank in your words, and yet what you advocate is only pure love, damn!
Exactly:... And only 3 people out of 500 have had the intelligence to see that.
That is how mentally dysfunctional the great majority of people are.
And what is even more dysfunctional is the 3 rare individuals who agree with me will not do it. They refuse to wake up and create their own self-sufficient community that is not based upon money because all of you are too affluent, too addicted to your affluence, to attached to your material possessions which own you more than you own them.
Your reaction of laughter is another form of brainwashing. You can laugh all you want to now.... but when you lose your home and our job... like most of the people who are protesting on Wall Street have done: you will suddenly stop your laughter and you will laugh no more.
What you do not realize is that the tools and machines you use are not working for you... you are working for them. You spend most of your life slaving away to afford them and maintain them until you become more of a machine than a human being. This is one huge blind-spot civilized people have. History shows how humans have been taken over by their tools and machines. The industrial revolution hasn't stopped: it's getting worse. It is an ongoing history of humans becoming progressively more and more dehumanized by using more and more machines. The most obvious part of this universal dynamic can be seen in the last century. Just before 1914... there was an explosion of new machines invented and new technologies: the result was WW1 and WW2 which ended with the invention of the atomic bomb. It is pure luck that the human species has not yet blown itself up yet and destroyed the entire earth. Instead: civilized man is now using technology to destroy all of the live-giving eco-systems which humans depend on to live. Do you laugh about nuclear weapons also and ecological catstrophe? If you do, you are not as intelligent as I thought.
You have no idea why I was laughing, I am not laughing any more because of your total misreading of my reasons for laughing. I was laughing tears of bitter joy, seeing you so sick and fucking tired of living on a planet full of self-induced ignorance, just like me. I was happy to know that some one else in this world has the guts to say it like it is ALL THE TIME with every breath like I do, even tho I choose to be very careful not to offend, unless I must. I was laughing because it reminded me of myself at age 18. I was laughing because you have a sharp sense of humor sometimes in your comments. What I wasn't laughing about was any of the stuff you listed. Please don't dismiss EVERYONE, especially ME, ok?
I'm 64 fucking years old and I can jog 3 miles without breaking into a sweat and I am not fucking polite to anyone unless they are polite to me and respect my views and don't laugh at them. You've already given up on LIFE and on yourself: you have no intention of trying to improve yourself or the world you live in: why shouldn't I dismiss you like all the others? You've already dismissed my goal of founding a self-sufficient community and by that alone you've shown me complete disrespect because you don't take anything I say seriously. None of you take life seriously and none of you live it passionately. I have nothing but disgust for emotionally dead people whose heart has died years ago and are only walking around performing the mechanical functions of existence like mindless brainless zombies and robots. This is why there are so few people that I get along with and that is exactly how I want it. Anyone who is emotionally dead and doesn't feel a fucking thing can go to fucking hell for all I care: just don't pollute my personal space with your zombie/polite shit.
AGAIN, you are being blind, I have never laughed AT you or at what you say. I have been saying the same thing to all my family and friends and everyone around me since I was a boy. I wanted to communicate to you the bitter joy of knowing another like me that I felt when i first found this post. It was refreshing, it gave me energy to continue. I would like to see a world like the one you describe, I have been describing the same world to everyone too, but I would like everyone to see it with me. I own property in another country where I have already built my own house and know how to live with total self-sustainability. I learned from my grandparents.I could go there right now, i have already tried to move there permanently and live free of money and bullshit, but whenever I stay there for too long, I realize how much I care about everyone else. I want the world to be happy, not just me. So I came back here, been here for 15 years, i do whatever I can to wake people up, POLITELY because it's not their damn faults! Unlike you say that it is, you and I disagree entirely about the faults of the people, and about human potential. People need time to figure things out for themselves, rude awakenings to harsh realities has it's place in the waking up process, but it is only a small part of the entire process. You are far too impatient, and your purpose in this world awakening will be limited because of it. I never hold on to money, my family and friends hate me for it, and then they love me for it later, when the results of my way of life is visible to them. I am forced to use money as I try to help people around me living within society where money is required to survive, as people slowly awaken out of this spell they've been born and raised under for so many generations. I find myself going on angry rants about money and the slavery of humanity to it, I have burned, ripped and destroyed money just for the pleasure of personal protest against it. When I lived in communist Romania, I often used money to wipe my ass with because there was no toilet paper at the store, and nothing on the shelves in any store to buy with the money, so... crumple/uncrumple, wipe. I have obsessively thought about how to escape the system and go somewhere where there is no money and live my life free and happy since I was about 4, when i learned to read and read some Jules Verne books. I have actually found a place like that in my 20s, and it made me realize it isn't what I want, i want to take the world with me to freedom and happiness. So I began the journey of my life. I have learned HUMILITY COMPASSION RESPECT PATIENCE and many other qualities, and I'm only about half your age. Before you trampled on my tears of love and laughter for you spirit with your ignorant IMPOLITE words, did you actually read my reasons why I laughed?
Are you saying that you're trying to get people to live in a community that is self-sufficient? Where do you live?
I LOVE your absolute no-bullshit personality, I'm am doing it as hard as I can brother, others have made 2 sites ready to use online now for people to start voting already. At some point after a week of discussions, gawdoftruth pointed out that we are wasting time and we don't need permission to try it right now! And so we are. I would LOVE to hear opinions from you EVERYWHERE! Please have a look at:
http://www.openassembly.org/index.html http://www.uponlocal.com/
just in case you didn't know, you can post a blog where you would have a serious audience: http://anonops.blogspot.com/
Please try to calm down, the revolution is only just begun, we'll get there surely, a little patience for your fellow brainwashed humans, and it shall be rewarded with less anger and frustration for you.
Tell you what, you send me your worthless paper money and I will send you an electronic hug & kiss for each worthless dollar you send me.
because I am here to help you achieve your dream.
Your electronic hug is even more worthless than he pieces of paper you hoard so much. You must really be lonely if the only fucking thing you can hug is your shit computer.
Instead of $ per hour and you go spend $ on a pair of pants for example, why not get paid in hours worked. my hour is equal to anyone elses. so that pair of pants not $100 but 10hours. My work effort is equal to anyones!
That is still a dehumanized exchange of time/effort. Go to a playground and watch children playing: See if they are having fun... see if they are doing any abstract exchanges. The real problem with you sick freaks is that none of you have ever SHARED anything with anybody in your entire deprived loveless lonely bored lives. If you ever learn how to share something like fun and play and happiness with other people, you will find out that there is no abstract exchange in living as you were meant to live:
We are all with you, all we need do is adopt a new system that has already been proven over time. I think it has but we lost it over time. Can one of us come up with this system so we can adopt it?
It is not a system. It is a different set of values. Anyone can do it. But first you must change your values, your understanding of things and your goals and your life. You need to change the way you THINK. You need to change the way you FEEL.
I can explain the basic dynamics to you if you are serious about it.
For instance: You were born into a mass of millions of faceless people, you were born into a dehumanized system which tries to control and oppress all the millions of faceless worker-drones who slave all their life in order to maintain their own slavery...
All you can imagine is another 'system' that is engineered to control millions of faceless drones.
You can't even imagine what it would be like to live in a community that is not a part of this faceless system of massed populations simply because you've never lived in a small community in your entire life.
When you create your own self-sufficient community: you are in effect telling all 7 billion money grubbing worker drones working for money to go fuck themselves. You are rejecting the entire concept of work. You no longer will be working: you will be cooperating intelligently and willingly with other people. You are rejecting the entire 'system' of capitalist for-profit consumer civilization and replacing it with something that is small and manageable and practical. you will in effect no longer be living inside capitalist consumer society: you will be living in your own community and you will not have anything to do with the capitalist world whatsoever because you will much to busy CREATING your own society and having fun and sharing your life with other people in your community on a level of closeness and trust and happiness and respect and good intentions that does not exist in the outside world of faceless millions of people
Who is 'we' freak? And why do you need to have something proven to you before you do it? Because you don't know you ass from your elbow is why: Now get lost and don't come back.
We no longer have the luxury of time to experiment ugly. You don't know what I know stupid. So stop talkin shit until you know what you're talking about. So begone with your sensless wisecracks.
What you are really saying is that you are TERRIFIED of any change and you do not want to change anything. Little terrified babies like you will go to the wall when change comes. What you do not understand is that all of you, anyone of you can do this without a leader. You're all sitting on your asses waiting fore someone to do it for you: why? Because all of you have been brainwashed into sitting on your ass in your nanny-state coddled system, and because not one of you is capable of any initiative or action by yourselves. The new order will sweep your kind off the face of the earth in a blink. Only people who are positive energy will survive the destruction of the artificial civilization you now exist inside. All of you negative frightened babies will not. It is NO surprise that all negative people are frightened of change.
What the hell is this nonsense. Are you trying to put some backbone in the sheeple? They were never conditioned to become leaders and are quite incapable of initiating anything on their own. They have been waiting for you Turak. Have fun.
No. I'm looking for the exception: the one-in-a-million: the few rare people who are mature individuals who have no use for leaders and are not conforming sheeple. Understand? There are millions of sheep, but not everyone is a fucking sheep: some are mature individuals. You're one of the sheep so don't badmouth your own class.
I love it!
Dudes, he's not saying be poor. There's plenty of money to be circulated if you SEPARATE YOUR ECONOMY from the investment banks.
How do you separate your economy?
For instance, if you are a writer, sign up for every article writing site there is online (like I did). I am self employed, and I never have to look for work.
On top of that, my schedule is my own.
http://occupyyallstreet.blogspot.com/
I am going further than that. I'm also self-employed. Being self-employed gives you a completely different perspective on life compared to the frightened timid little obedient workers and wage slaves who work for a master/boss. We know what the power of independence does to you: it gives you a sense of your own self-worth and your own self-respect being able to support yourself without leaning on others and being dependent on business corporations or the government.
I'm telling you: everyone can live as they wish if they throw away the dehumanizing practice of exchanging pieces of paper for goods and services. I'm telling you your entire consumer culture and society is corrupt to the bone and it has to be pulled down and destroyed. The quickest way to do this is just not support it.
What none of you understand is that you are living inside a system of VOLUNTARY SLAVERY: you're doing it to yourselves. Global capitalism is based upon brainwashing and programming 7 billion people into religiously believing that there is no other way to live except by using money. That is total bullshit. All you human wage slaves need to do is wake up and stop obeying your masters and it's OVER... FINISHED... GONE. No muss, no fuss. But as long as you try to play their game and 'work within the system' all of you are screwed because the game is RIGGED, folks. Stop using money and you can create your own life.
BUT!!!! BUT!!! Since capitalism has created 76 billion deadheads who don't have an ounce of creative energy in them: they refuse to open the gate to their own freedom when the door isn't even locked. It is the total absence and lack of positive creative energy which is stopping all of you from realizing how easily you can crush the top 1%.
Your passion turak is great, though greatly misguided and funneled in a very bad direction. Your points are not backed up by any type of citation of credibility. It's the same hippy rant that's been shouted for decades. This economy is a barge not a speedboat. What you suggest takes decades to accomplish and you won't even be alive to see it come to full fruition. You are obviously someone without kids or in a serious committed relationship due to the tone of ALL of your responses. Your lack of intellectual prowess leaves me emaciated for serious thought and debate. The ability to hurl insults and baseless diatribes is cute for an Emo 17 yr old, it just doesn't inspire a movement. I support the movement, just not the fanatical zealots like yourself. Like so many here have told you before....research and due diligence. I will start you off by directing you to Google and learn as much as you can about the Fiat economic model and the Gold Standard...I suggest you immerse yourself in the two. When you do, return with a DETAILED plan outlining how we as a society are to accomplish this using the current infrastructure in place, because factually that's the basis of all this. Now unless you have a plan to replace the ubiquity of utilities, social services (i.e. Fire, Police, Health Care), I suggest you get that plan in order as well. Once again..great passion, just ignorant and ultra misguided. I will wait for your long insult and profanity laced response.
Bravo! but you will have little effect on this infantile pinhead. I gave turak the opportunity to provide a logical argument to support his unsubstantiated claims and he couldn't. His, "truths," are the product of a delusional mind, and his offensive replies are the product of a malignant self-hate.
Wrong: you have missed the point as all the other retards have. Hippies never ranted about getting rid of money. There is nothing to stop you from starting your own self-sufficient community except your own stupidity and slave-mentality. You are still expecting other people to do your work for you. As a result: nobody will do the work for you and you will rot in your capitalist society until it blows up in your stupid face and there will be an end to idiots like you and good riddance to them.
You actually expect me to do all the hard work! And present you with a detailed 'plan' of what kind of self-sufficient community will be right for YOU? What kind of fucking dunderhead are you anyways? Self-sufficient communities are organized by people who do things for themselves without asking or expecting someone else to do it for them.
You are also mistakenly assuming I am out to change the world. The rest of the capitalist consumer world can go to fucking hell in a hand basket for all I care. Because when I, and others who are organizing right now to create self-sufficient communities... have created our own community to live in that is self-sufficient... none of us will give a flying fuck what the rest of you imbeciles do, or don't do... That's the beauty of self-sufficient communities, you idiot. Once you organize and start one: you won't need to worry what the rest of humanity is doing. And what's more, you won't care. So don't try to label me as a fucking fanatic or an idealist. I am a practical realist: not an armchair computer freak who has never done anything in their life and only lives inside his head.
Just checking in with you thins morning.
Why don't we just outlaw evil? Wouldn't that be simpler and more direct?
Oh and everybody gets a pony.
Getting rid of money effectively outlaws all evil WITHOUT an laws needed:
You cannot legislate morality or greed: but you CAN do away with the roots of greed from whence all evils grow
You are a communist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You mean 'bolshevik' not 'communist' the term communism is a label incorrectly put onto Russian totalitarian dictatorship.
I am a COMMUNITY person.
What you imbeciles don't realize is that you have been brainwashed to react differently yo three words which actually all mean the same thing:
COMMUNE COMMUNITY COMMUNISM
They all mean the same thing: the commingling of people coming together in friendship, fraternity, freedom, liberty and EQUALITY.
Totalitarian dictatorships are the OPPOSITE of community/communal/communism.
The thing is in some ways you are right.
The love of money is the route of all evil.
However, what is money and do the 1% really have lots of it and love it.
What we all call money is just the physical representation of an idea. In history anything has been money. Rocks, feathers, etc. As long as everyone using it believed you could exchange it for something of real value (food, clothing, houses, etc) then it was money.
Money is means of exchange so we don't have to carry about bulky goods to swap. Therefore, hugs and kisses could be money.
People forget that money has no value, it represents (or it did) the real wealth of the world (i.e. our resources).
That is why you will find the 1% don't have money, they have no love for it, they use it as a means of getting and holding real wealth (land, houses, resources, etc) which is what it was always mean't for.
That's the real issue here, they have everything of real value and we have the worthless paper and coins.
To make it harder for the 1% to get everything we must first change the fractional reserve banking system that allows them to do this. See www.positivemoney.org.uk for a solution (it is a bit UK orientated but the US uses the same system and has even more problems as the Federal Reserve is not nationalised).
First: you explanation of where money comes from is total misinformation bullshit. What none of you people do not realize is that if you want to change society, you have to change yourselves first before you change anything else.
The point is: you middle-class people are JUST AS selfish and greedy as the top 1%: Therefore you don't have a leg to stand on morally, ethically or any other way.
You want to get rid of the top 1%?? Stop buying shit from their stores> Stop being materialists: stop valuing material goods, STOP COPYING THE RICH;
Once you voluntarily divest your selves of all your bad habits: the top 1% will crumble, die and fall: BUT NOT BEFORE you change how YOU live.
How many hugs and kisses for a kidney transplant?
If you're that sick: we don't want you in our community to begin with: get lost.
You have the wrong idea about money, moneys not a medium of exchange of goods and services, money is a representation of your value.
So if I worked all day and made $100, then I was worth $100. I decided that the best way to spend my day was to work to make $100, I became $100.
So basically we already have a system of sharing each others time energy and resources. By using money, we convert our time and effort into something that we can mutually trade with.
I love both money and people, because they are one and the same!! If I make $100 in a day, then on that day I was both a person and $100.
you haven't been potty trained yet. You're a perfect candidate for becoming a McDonald's employee. They have pictures you can punch so you don't need to be able to read or write or think. They love obedient little wage slaves like you. Enjoy your minimum wage life. Bye-bye.
lol ive always made more than minimum wage. It's because my labor product is more valuable than minimum wage. Thats the point.
you're an ignorant uneducated wage slave. You like being a slave to the rich? Apparently you do:
Im not a slave to the rich- I live from the value that I produce and sell to others in the free market, just like everyone else. I have a fair contact with a corporation to sell them my labor in exchange for a wage. This was a perfectly free and fair agreement made by two independent parties. I'm perfectly free to stop working and go be a hobo somewhere. Of course I'm not going to do this because I like enjoying the benefits of selling the value that I created.
Stop spewing bullshit on the Internet and go produce something of value to sell to others
you are a SLAVE TO THE RICH. Without their corporations hiring you: you would starve to death. So don't tell me you're not a sl;ave to money. Face it: you're a slave to money and to the rich who have most of the money in the world.
They have PLANS for the few middle class left in the world: asshole. They've already repossessed more than 22 million homes from you Americans who love to claim you're the richest nation on earth: you fucking jackass. Very soon, there will be no more middle class and your jobs will disappear. You do not create ANYTHING but your own slave mentality when you work for anyone but yourself. There are millions and millions of people out of work who desperately want a SLAVE job, working for some huge corporation so they can pay their rent: jackass: THAT'S HOW THEY LIKE HAVING ALL OF YOU BY THE BALLS. As the number of middle class shrinks and shrinks: each one of you fucking 'I'm all right: jack" assholes will slip from their positions and JOIN the poor and homeless... and then it will be TOO LATE to wake up: you fucking moron. What disgusts me is that every selfish pig like you who is not homeless, in debt up to their ass, out of work, etc. does not give one fuck about his fellow man. And because you don't: your class is going down the fucking tubes and none of you imbeciles are going to wake up until it's too late.
AhahahahahHahahahaha lololoolololol wow funny. Good luck being a slave- I'm going to be my own man
freak: you are a slave: now go back to your mommy and tell her you were using her computer without her permission and she will send you to bed without your milk and cookies
Lol that was lame try harder.
Stop blaming everyone else and start blaming yourself for your failures.
little baby: goodbye
It's been nice trolling you- go have fun living in your fantasy land
So you admit that you are a troll> YOU HAVE BEEN RECOGNIZED and your comments here have been DELETED from the public consciousness: your entire mission has failed.
bartering
Now the under-five age group is kicking in... soon the babbling babies on this thread will be down to sucking on their pacifiers... can you fucking imbeciles regress any further down into infantile stupidity? Why don't you burrow back into your mother's womb? That way you can successfully say you didn't understand a single word I said and rationalize it to yourself.
I'm a filmmaker and a proponent of the Occupy Wall Street movement. This country needs change and all over the world they are hearing our message. I'm making a music video to help spread the message in popular music
Please support the music and help us work towards change. Any contribution is a good contribution.
http://www.indiegogo.com/Occupy-Wallstreet-Music-Video?a=288373&i=addr
You're in the wrong thread: start your own
sooo I have a few questions. Well actually, I want to start off with everyone has a right to his or her opinion... ok so, who decides how many hugs and kisses are fair payment for different tasks? if you do not receive what you feel to be enough hugs and kisses for a job you have performed, who do you complain to? is there some kind of enforcement agency??? and how do you pay these enforcers? will we all as a community go by daily to hug and kiss these workers? If so that is not fair, my hugs and kisses are worth more than others...there should be fair taxation. also, when I have sex with my significant other I hug and kiss him...does this make me a prostitute?? oh one last one...what if the person has cold sores or other contagious things...do they have to give kisses? if not they get things for free? or on the flip side, if I work for someone who has something, do I have to catch it in order to be paid? just curious :)
your questions are idiotic: as are you; get lost
Too cruel
If you can't take the fucking truth: then get the hell OUT of here.
Eventually, we will have a money-less market system; where labor and services will be provided by artificially intelligent machines. It is a matter of getting AI to replace lawyers and surgeons. The time will come and then political elites will be able to phase out the finance elite or exterminate them; depending on how democratic or sociopathic the politicans, of the future, may be. [wink]
another imbecile goodbye
You really don't believe in the future potential of a money-less market system? [shocked] How would a Capitalist system compete with a money-less market? Would you work for stuff, if it was given to you for free?
sigh.... I don't believe in anything Nor do I disbelieve in anything The word 'believe' has no semantic meaning.
I am speaking of a NEW way of living, a NEW way of forming a community
Not an improved brand of Pepsi or Coke
I am speaking of a community that is self-sufficient.
That means NO market. NO buying. No selling. NO consuming. NO stores. NO mass manufactured goods
the result is... are you ready?
NO taxes... NO work, NO wages, NO bosses, NO wage slaves NO government, NO police, No conflict, NO hierarchical class status No idiots, NO greedy pigs, NO pizza, NO beer, NO computers NO cars, NO expensive destructive highway systems, NO gasoline NO corporations, NO factories, NO pollution, NO rich assholes NO middle class. NO lower class NO banks NO money, NO upper class etc...
Whoops!.... that means no idiots like YOU either.... bye-bye.
No pizza...really?
bye-bye
As you guys stand up to corporate greed, I am backing you but I also fear for your lives, as the top 1 control the media. They control the government, And the Robber Barons have had over 100 years to plan and dig their roots deeper. Give the rich more money my but, all the rich people do anymore is go to investment banks to collapse entire markets just for that next billion. As I see it we need another crazy president like Teddy Roosevelt, GO TRUST BUSTING. The only thing we can do is hope to find someone willing to dedicate their life to getting rid of these boards of billionaires and getting our freedom back. Away with the lobbyist, the lawyers, and burden on the 99. This is what I mean, get rid of the people that make it possible to bring big banks and the government together.
You as everyone else on this thread is missing the point
Get rid on money and you get rid of them:
no fuss, no muss.
You want to wipe out the rich?
Get rid of money: period and they will all disappear
Stop using money and they will all go bankrupt and die
When you do not use money: no govt can tax you: end of all taxation slavery When you do not use money: nobody can be rich
Money is just a means of exchange. Carrots wilt. But, holding all the chips and not playing the game is not living.
Exchanging shit for some other shit is not living. Hoarding chips or carrots is not living. Greed is not living. The reason you are a bored dead brainless idiot without any creativity or originality is because everything you use is mass manufactured crap. Get rid of it.
Oops: then we will also be able to get rid of people like you who can't exist without their precious consumer products... Why what a nice thought: killing two birds with one stone. Getting rid not only of money: but all the stupid greedy suckers who can't live without money... gosh: now I understand why all of you freaks are so adamantly against the simple logic of my solution to all of your problems.
No, no, no--there us always an excgange it is simply the law of nature, which abhors a vacume, Plant and harvest, my friend, We don't work ythen we don't eat so well, that being said, both industry and leisure can become abuused. There is nothing in heaven and earth that is not natural even plastic is a natural sourced material, Never forget that, never let emotions blurr the math,.I understand contempt for material things, but it is the hoarding of wealth that is the issue, like a little-league baseball game, it is chaos for every player and fan without mutual rules and a referree, there are no non-natural goods and services, this is simply where our develovment and curiosity have taken man, like the device you are holding on to, use it for good., Pllution, is only misalocated resources--live strong my friend.
another fucking moron: goodbye
No, really the radical right loves to moc people who have become disillusioned with the give and take of society. In older times, there were many fewer people and so, gathering and communal farms worked. Today we must feed hundreds of millions, without rules and devices only chaos and the survival of the devious would prevail. Contempt for the products of our labor is not the answer, it's like spitting on the Mona Lisa, or your child's crayon drawing. A precious momento of a lost loved one, or a comfortable old pair of shoes. But when the economic and political ystem is so broken , as it is now that it breeds contempt for the fruits of our labor, then the greedy will soon figure out how to take it all for themselves. Moral--Start your own business with a few trusted friends who are honest and hard working and create a just and green corporation. Target one that exists today that you despise and do it better, cheaper and advertise it more effectively. Take the chips away from the bad actors and make this a more just country. The material goods and services you provide could save lives, educate the ignorant and more. I'm depending on you.
wrong moron: there is no give and take in society anymore: there are just greedy consumers in America buying shit made in China they don't need. There is no contempt for products your labor makes because you don't MAKE anything anymore: you buy all your crap: you fucking brainless twit.
You do not 'must' feed the hundreds of millions: you just have to feed your own community. IN fact NOBODY has ever fed them and nobody ever will feed them. If they are to stupid to change how they live: let them go extinct.
You're a waste of time. Pretend I didn't respond to your idiotic post.
Pretend? So you're not seriously seeking a solution?
bye-bye
Hugs, kisses and Molotovs!!!
This thread is awesome.
I have a boner.
I say we use condoms as currency.
Let's seal that deal, shall we?
Most people now days expect the government to serve and protect. As we have seen in the past couple of weeks when people assemble and demand change they will first ignore in hopes that it will just go away, then they will say "i think its good citizens are voicing their opinion their dissatisfaction in the way their government is.", finally they realize that we are for real and we are not going anywhere until CHANGE HAPPENS!!! "City officials had originally been supportive of the protesters, with Oakland Mayor Jean Quan saying that sometimes 'democracy is messy'." - Associated Press http://therevolutionarytruth.tumblr.com/
Wrong. You can sleep on wallstreet fot the next ten years and the rich will still not give in to one of your demands.
The timidity of Americans is amazing: terrified mice too afraid to stand up... think other people standing up for them will solve all their problems. Shut off your computer: Go there and join the protesters and live on the street for a month: But you'll never do it.
if i could drop all of my obligations like my job and parole, I would already be there! so what i try and do is get the true message of OWS instead of what the mainstream media portrays it to be. http://therevolutionarytruth.tumblr.com/post/11716755629/occupy-wall-street-a-nations-cry-for-change
parole?... what were you paroled for?
are you asking what i went to prison for?
yes...is that too personal a question?
no, because i cant change what i did i just have to move and make better choices per-say. it was possession of a controlled substance over an oz.(hydrocodone) which is a Felony 3
That's not a crime: you're a good person. Maybe on the weekend you can make it: I'm going to the rally this week in downtown Montreal. They're in every fucking city in North America!
dude thanks! thats awesome to hear someone say that! Yea i'll go this weekend you do have a point
Hey turn the mirror around for a moment. Who are we all lining up with? Van Jones? Who is he? We don't need to be lined up with all these anti-american folks. Join the process Take our march to Washington, To local Capitals - Tell the elected officials to stop the bad deals, the corrupt Unions - Why are my UNION DUES spent on campaigns- when it should go to my health care - my pension - Union Workers - Ask yourself Why - to we stand by when our leaders spen 100 million of our dues money on political campaigns?
Hey turn the mirror around for a moment. Who are we all lining up with? Van Jones? Who is he? We don't need to be lined up with all these anti-american folks. Join the process Take our march to Washington, To local Capitals - Tell the elected officials to stop the bad deals, the corrupt Unions - Why are my UNION DUES spent on campaigns- when it should go to my health care - my pension - Union Workers - Ask yourself Why - to we stand by when our leaders spen 100 million of our dues money on political campaigns?
That guy Turak is a one person hate machine and will do nothing good for this movement with the kind of hate speech he is shelling out. I agree with the OWS agenda but all that negativity is gonna kill this movement before it can get a foothold.
If there are any real Leaders of this movement who wish to discuss my ideas as to how to help organize the movement, please feel free to contact me at:
jholmesbeach@yahoo.com
I will discuss ideas with anybody EXCEPT that Turak dude. Just put OWS in the topic so I know to open it.
You are right about Turak, every time he submits a post he not only demonstrates his closed minded stupidity but also his deep seeded self hate which always shows itself by attacking others.
Agree
wrong: it is all of you who are close minded to the solution for all your problems: creating your own self-sufficient community is the only way you will ever lead a happier healthier life.
I 'm curious: why do you hate yourself so much?
When I am attacked by more than 400 people and defend myself and defeat all comers: its called superior logic and superior intelligence: it's called courage and honesty and standing up to all negative bullies and exposing the cowards who run away and have nothing to say for themselves... like you for instance.
Do you know of anyone else who has the courage of his convictions?
Not one of you wimps have the courage to stand up for what you believe in because you believe in NOTHING: all of you wimps have NO morals, NO decency, NO honest, NO courage, NO intelligence, NO logic, NO common sense, and NO ability to express yourselves so you can be understood by another human being. All of you trolls throw in a few stinking negative naysaying comments and then run for the hills after I kick your hypocritical asses with the brutal truths you don't want to face. Awww poor little cowards: can't stand up to logic and common sense.
I see! We are all wimps because we don't bend down and kiss your delusional ass! You are naive, immature, and your ideas about self sufficient communities reveal only one brutal truth- you lack the education and superior intelligence your claim to have. You have exposed nothing, you have said nothing.
No you do NOT see: I am speaking of creating self-sufficient communities with NO leaders, and NO followers, and NO ass kissers... I DESPISE ass-kissers. If you try to kiss my ass I will kick your face in and you will be in the hospital for a long time.
All of you trolls who are against the OW movement and who have no decent values ARE MY ENEMY. Understand?
WRONG: I have explained logically how anyone of you shitheads could solve your problems: the problem is: all of you are far too corrupted by money and by all the shit you buy with money to ever even want to live a better life than the drugged brainwashed existence you live now.
None of you have an understanding of the society and culture to exist inside. None of you have bothered to learn the history of your own past. None of you are aware of what is happening now. None of you are educated. None of you want to learn anything worthwhile None of you CAN learn anything worthwhile. None of you have a rational argument. Morons with the IQ of a penis. Mindless worms: blinder than a bat. The paucity of your arguments and intelligence is so easily destroyed by me it is a boring chore that is getting more and more boring... as the people showing up on this thread get dumber and dumber and DUMBER. You're the last and lowest scrapings of the barrel of monkeys poisoning all of you into gibbering idiocy.
Exactly what IS positive about the OW's movement? One thing positive about the OW's movement is that they DO NOT HAVE ANY LEADERS: you fucking shitfaced imbecile Another thing that is positive is that they are SHARING THEIR LIVES WITH EACH OTHER, and cooperating INTELLIGENTLY with each other: you total fucking MORON.
Another positive aspect of the ow's movement is that these people are helping each other without trying to make a profit off each other! Which is the only reason they feel so good and so positive: you total fucking blind ass.
Do you have any fucking brains at all??
These are the positive aspects of this grass-roots movement which is rising up all over the world spontaneously!
But your STUPIID greed has already derailed all of your positive energy into squabbling over money!! Instead of creating your own communities where you do not use money and do not squabble over money.
Do any of you stupid asses have any intelligence whatsoever??
funny shit.
you're just a number
yes but i still give damn good kisses and hugs
to who? Or are you lying like you usually do?
i lied
your lying is only a symptom of your miserable isolated computer existence. Turn off your computer and find the courage to go outside, meet real living people and give them a hug.
i think you need a hug
I am a professional massage therapist: I give full body hugs to people stop avoiding the truth when it hits you in the face
chill out then. This is odd that the person who starts a thread about hugs and kisses is so hostile to everyone. I honestly thought that you were a very talented comedian and I wanted to compliment you. I didn't know you were serious. Now let's be friends and fight the fascist corporations and politicians.
I am hostile to all people who are liars: now fuck off
this guy is crazy. every post from him is an ad hominen attack. it's people like this that make us look bad. -_-;;
As hominen comments that do not address the issue being discussed are filling up this thread with dozens of shit-ass trolls who come by: drop their shitload of ad-hominen comment and run away. You and all the other trolls on the internet are why forums are dysfunctional.
As hominen comments that do not address the issue being discussed are filling up this thread with dozens of shit-ass trolls who come by: drop their shitload of ad-hominen comment and run away. You and all the other trolls on the internet are why forums are dysfunctional.
mmmm. ok mr troll. i like ur tin foil hat btw.
So just what do you propose to use to pay for your World of Warcraft account?
I do not play these sick games: you do. Your entire culture of fantasy and abstract unreality is why all of you are detached from reality
You just made my point. I don't play that game ether although 4 million American's do.
See? The second I ask you a decent logical simple question you RUN AWAY: because you are a liar, a troll, a freak who has no moral principles, a paranoid jackass. NO Dialogue, NO communication, NO honesty: just little stinking cowards running away whenever asked to reveal themselves.
then you agree that the solution to your problems is creating your own self-sufficient community that does not use money?
Renunciation of material wealth because of its negative effect on our spiritual well being is at the heart of Eastern religion, while Western religion proclaims, "For what greater purpose can wealth be pursued than for the greater glory of god?"
I am speaking of physical health: emotional health mental health, social health based upon the independence of the individual and the individuals having the power to voluntarily cooperate with other independent individuals. Take your out of context quotes and stick them up your meaningless ass.
Thank you for demonstrating the poverty of your ideas. You are a loser.
Wrong I am a winner: you are the loser for believing in mythological gibberish You religious nuts are even worse than the 1%
Hey turak, speakin of mythological gibberish, tell me bout Universal truth and Universal logic? Gotta get me sum a that! UNIVERSAL TRUTH BELONGS TO A TRANSCENDENT REALM WHERE WE IN OUR FINITE NATURE LACK ACCESS . Are your Universal truths the archetypes as conceived by Plato, or are they of your own creation?
No Universal truths are truths that are universal: they apply to everyone and everything in the Universe without exception. If you can find an exception to a truth it is not universal.
For instance: the more selfish you are: the stupider and the more arrogant and narrow-minded you become. That is a universal truth. There are no exceptions to universal truths
For instance: the more you share your life with other people and treat them as equals without looking up to them or looking down upon them: the more human you become.
You see you stinking disgusting non-human ass: you are not a human being. You are a dehumanized freakhead living in your fantasy land of distraction unable to understand simple truths.
Universal truths are not created. They exist as the functioning dynamics of all energy ini the Universe and there are no exceptions to how they work.
For instance: freaks who try to make fun of everything become insane maniacs babbling idiotic crap because they cannot distinguish between what is serious and what is not.
For instance: imbeciles who are incapable of telling the difference between a cunning lie and the truth end up believing in the lies which have been sold to them by liars and disbelieving honest people who tell them the truth.
Just as I thought! You are a fraud who only knows how to insult people. Please explain the "Universal logic" in your claim that people who are selfish are also stupid and arrogant, or any of your other, "Universal truths." Just by saying it doesn't make it true. You must present an argument with true premises (not opinions) and a conclusion that is logically consistent (are you even familiar with the laws of logic?). Anyone who believes that they have arrived at universal truth is delusional and belongs in an asylum. FUNCTIONING DYNAMICS OF ALL ENERGY IN THE UNIVERSE! What an empty crock of shit!
Wrong: go buy some beer: Budweiser has sold you very well on the religion of stupefying yourself with piss-alcohol.
Use your superior intelligence and explain to me why I am wrong.
ll true knowledge and understanding comes from self-knowledge and self-understanding: not from other people. If you ever find a selfish person who is not stupid and not arrogant: you will have proven me wrong. Until that time: go away. I am not here to sell anyone anything. I am here only to explain a few simple truths which none of you have been able to disprove
Thank you for not responding with obscenities and insults.
There are many people who do not know the meaning of a selfless act. Whatever they do, they are only concerned with how it reflects on themselves. If they do a good deed, it is more important that everyone knows that THEY did the good deed, than the actual benefit of the deed. This is selfish without being either stupid or arrogant.
"Know thyself," marks the beginning of Western philosophy. "It was Socrates who expressed most clearly this radically new prestige of knowledge and conscious intelligence when he claimed to be the only one who acknowledged to himself that he knew nothing." (Nietzsche)
The quality of selfishness is antecedent to any articulation of knowledge or understanding. Human selfishness is an elaboration of our animal instincts to appropriate and control. This transformation takes place during the Graeco-Roman epoch when human worth is first reduced to a numerical equivalent. The accumulation of wealth at the expense of another is accompanied by spasms of arrogance and entitlement, or in other words, selfishness.
You seem terribly defensive about the prospect of being dis-proven. Perhaps you should not be so adamant about maintaining a monopoly over truth, people will respond more positively. "If you do not take credit, credit cannot be taken from you." (Lao-tse)
You do not need to respond to this post unless you feel absolutely compelled to do so. I never wanted to get into a shitting match with you, and if we might agree on one thing, it is that the guy who wins the shitting match is the bigger asshole!
sigh: another armchair idiot. There is no monopoly on truth. Universal truths exist independent of the people who discover them. Nobody can disprove universal truths: they can only discover them. I am not defensive about anything. Your PERCEPTION of reality is so fucking garbled it exposes how garbled your brain is. That is not a surprise: your generation has had its brains friend by mass media advertising and propaganda. You are a perfect example of the millions of imbeciles on the internet who try to sound as if they are sitting in an ivory tower and are 90 years old and have lived a life. You haven't even LIVED yet so shut up. Shut off your computer and go out and meet people and stop your fake act.
I am speaking of physical health: emotional health mental health, social health based upon the independence of the individual and the individuals having the power to voluntarily cooperate with other independent individuals. Take your out of context quotes and stick them up your meaningless ass.
You don't know a thing about me, but I know you brother! I suspect you are a pimply virgin who is angry at the world because he can't get laid. Everything you say is garbage. Go to school and see a psychiatrist. End of conversation.
By the way... you were so upset at reading the truth you responded to the wrong thread. The post you wanted to respond to is the one above the one you did respond to.
Is that so?..... by-by little pimply virgin oops... how did I know that?
I gave you the opportunity to defend your unsubstantiated claims with a logical argument and you couldn't. You are a pathetic loser with delusions of grandeur.
Wrong: total bullshit. First I claim nothing: I either KNOW, or I DON'T KNOW. 2nd: Everything I have said on this thread has been proven and substantiated by thousands of CREATIVE intentional communities and ways of living which are functioning all over the world today. 3rd:your obsession with winning makes you a loser. 4th:I am not the one deluding myself and lying to myself: you are.
Everything you say is an unsubstantiated claim. Explain the ways these communities have functioned successfully. What are you using as your criteria for success, how is it being measured. That is the stuff of rational inquiry.
you've got success on the brain syndrome. Go watch battle of the stars and watch them 'succeed' and get off this thread
You first. Give me all of your money please. You can even have a hug and kiss. and gratitude, gratis!
selfish assholes who only want money are enemies of the OW movement: Somebody can this troll NOW
Sorry, but we have to be more realistic than that. You should work for the closest possible change, and worry about the more esoteric stuff after.
bullshit. I am one thousand times more realistic and logical than any of you . Getting rid of money is not esoteric: is is BLUNT HONEST TRUTH. It WORKS. I can be done by any group of people who want to improve their lives. The real problem is that none of you imbeciles WANT to improve ANYTHING.
Everyone is missing the point? Thousands and thousands of people? And you are the only one who sees how things should be? Do you know how that sounds?
You think that the majority is always right and whatever the majority wants is right and all minorities are wrong: is that it? So when Galileo stated that the earth was not flat: but round and the whole world told him to shut up... he should have kept his mouth shut and that way you would be living in a world where everyone believes the world is flat: right? You just size up a situation and figure out which side the majority is on... and you go with the flow> Majority wants to smoke crack cocaine? ALRIGHT! Majority wants to go to war? ALRIGHT! Majority wants to commit suicide? ALRI-
Do you know how that sounds? It sounds like you don't have a brain.
This is how incredibly fucking STUPID you are. You do not have a brain to think for yourself
No, you sweet talker, you...I don't think the majority is always right, I just think you are an egotistical twit with a bad idea.
I don't think: I KNOW you are a twit with no brains and no intelligence.
Your use of a colon was incorrect. You made it a statement that you dont think. So you want to compare iq and gpa? I promise, mine is bigger than yours! Thanks for the laugh, I needed it.
grammar police are the lowest of the low. Don't you know that yet? Of course you don't; otherwise you would not try to rationalize your own non-existent intelligence
Barter is nothing new. Join in if you want there's nothing wrong with it if you have something to contribute and there is something you need that you can get in exchange. But unless there is a huge upheaval that isolates us all in major ways their is no practical way to support this society with barter. Our monetary system is based on resources and product already the only thing wrong with it is the abusers and lack of policing.
another imbecile: I am not speaking of barter or trade: I am speaking of self-sufficient communities made up of intelligent self-sufficient individuals who cooperate with each other on a voluntary basis. Not trading anything but hugs and kisses.
The point is, you have never hugged or kissed another human being in you life. So for you, and all the other deprived freaks out there in machineland: this idea is not only alien to you, it is unimaginable to you.
So your a socialist as well as a Nazi. Ask the USSR how well socialism worked out for them, and have a seance with Hitler and ask him how well fascism worked out for Him. Reading your posts it is easy to see that you are a deeply disturbed and anti social individual. Go to your isolation where ever you may find it, but consider seeking professional help and medication or your libel to blow what grey matter that you have out your ears during one of your rants.
socialists do not live without money: you fucking imbecile Nazi's do not exchange hugs and kisses: you total moron.
get your fucking ass out of here: you're too fucking stupid for words.
irrelevant. If you don't believe in violence stop promoting it. "Again, im saying to kill money, money which is just an idea or a notion. " the consequences of such an action are systemic and real and clearly a whole lot deeper and more complicated than you have bothered to imagine. "The same way we killed the "flat-earth" notion, im suggesting we kill the money notion." Fine, that i can agree with almost... its not patently offensive. But thats not what you said you did not say "kill the idea of money." you said "kill money." in any case, its an irrational non solution which tells us everything about your maturity in this. " If its still not clear, please, do ask clarifying questions, ill be happy to share my thoughts. " I don't need any clarification. The meme is stupid, irrational, violent, pointless, and causes serious damage to the ability of people like me to convince average jos to move out of their matrix mind. Your shooting the real effort for evolution in the foot. thanks to stupid memes like this, people imagine stupid cluelss ignorant rebels without a clue when they think of anti capitalsts. Your causing me and everyone whos doing actual work MORE load to carry and more problems to solve. "Remember, we are here for each other, " then grow up and start working the problems as an adult. "not against. I don't care about your experiences with other tzm;ers, I would hope by know that a few bad apples (in your eyes) don't speak for every other apple tree out there. You should know this about me by know. and if there are those that suspect your a troll, well its because you have what some could consider a "fake profile". " thats ludicrous. i live transparently and every day i am out there making a real difference while everyone else pisses it all off. "Sure I wear a mask as mr killmoney, but ppl have met me, I've been on on broadcasts that have aired all over the world revealng my true identity. In fact, you can learn who most of my relatives are, who im married to, and etc, right here on fb, which is far from what one could conclude from your page. Im not saying this is some sort of shown-n-tell contest, but to hope you understand just a little bit when folks don't take you as serious as you claim to be. Dude, I am with you, you can ask james kush, my extension of friendship is the genuine article, so please, let's continue to explore ways on hashing out our differences, and come together for the sake of humanity;past+present+future" I need ADULT allies to facilitate REAL social and evolutionary change. "Kill money" is one more propaganda warfare ignorant social suicide meme which make my life ten times harder. You should have thought this through. Maybe its time to start.
Well said. Well said. Seems like someone on here actually wants policy change, rather than attempt to change ideologies. Thanks for giving me hope that humanity still has a chance if we listen to the intelligent among us.
thank you. visit the wiki and help me this ain't easy and its impossible inside of this trollhatten.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPR3GlpQQJA
I have been active here since the very beginning, and since the very beginning I have been trying to make some core points. These points clearly have not been digested or fully understood by the mob, and so I'm going to try to make a further attempt here again.
For these reasons, I beg of you to please immediately join me on the wiki. We need to have all of these details and all of these ideas put together in an organized fashion, rather than posted in a long scrawl which will never be read.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/THE_99%25_POLITICAL_PARTY
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ
http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw
http://www.opensecrets.org/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/our-new-wiki/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/
John Bassist A transition plan means we grow our own food, form our own communities, and build new and evolutionary civil infrastructures and transition into possible futures with all of the trappings of Star Trek. A transition plan means localization, tribalization, self sufficiency, and a new kind of super corporation or super community which is self sufficient to build anything anybody wants. Nowhere in any of that is there any "kill."
2 minutes ago · Like
John Bassist We GROW out of money the long hard slog evolutionary way. Not suddenly. Not kill. Not death. Not fight. Not moneywar. We arrive at no money not by putting that in front of us, as a goal, but as an incidental bi product of technological and economic singularity. We do need to end money. But not as adolsecent juvenile delinquint trolls out calling for the DEATH of things... but as agents of evolutionary process who are wisely using the current system plus our new evolutionary strategies until at some future moment money becomes incidentally obsolete. Quit your evil pathetic sin city whining and preaching and GET TO THE WORK for human evolution.
a few seconds ago · Like
"ohn chill out here bro,we are all on the same team. Its clear that there are some communication issues here. I think its clear the kill money project isn't something you've taken the time out to understand," Nor am i going to take any time to understand it, nor will any other reasonable people. Its a wrong and pig headed violent meme. period. "kill." the end. Thats violent. thats not a solution. thats a big frigging extra problem. " so please let's clear the air. Everyone who knows mr killmoney isn't about anything violent, its just my way of bringing mainstream attention to the issue at hand, " Grow up with your communication. Whether you intend it as violent or not it is still violent. you saying you don't intend violent only makes us go.. wow.. this gy is not actually like paying attention to the MEANING of the WORDS hes using. "which is the way the monetary shit-stem has paralyzed humanity. I chose such a vulgar and pornographic meme because I felt it best captures the current crisis in a very simple, direct and catchy phrase." it captures the ignorance, stupidity, lack of real solutions, and arrogant infantile egotism very effectively. " It has proven to be a great icebreaker for starting a conversation of the the monetary shit-stem." great.... you prolly have no idea how many more people it just turns off. " I have never in any of my posts, blogs, or aanywhere in my perspective have suggested that violent actions be taken towards anyone anywhere," sorry, "kill money" is a suggestion of violence. period. Whether you intend it or not thats what the words mean. " no do I personally believe that violence is a solution for any problem. "
You don't 'grow' out of using money you dickhead: you stop using it. Just like you don't 'grow' out of drinking alcohol you imbecile: you just stop using it because you know it's bad for you.
calling me names does not change the factual reality. In truth you are the imbecile and moron if you think we can just plain stop using it. Thats stupid, ignorant, childish temper tantrumming, and its not a problem solving tactic and its simply not going to happen for pretty much everybody back in reality who won't merely stop using money. If you want to get away from money you have to grow up and stop being an ignorant fucktard, and grasp the systemic and complicated issues which will force this to be an evolutionary process.
Asshole: I already gave you the solution to your problem and you refuse to even talk about it. All you focus on is how much of an imbecile you are instead of focusing on the facts.
Creating your own small self-sufficient community that does not use money does not require the millions of people who do not live in your self-sufficient community to stop using money you fucking idiot. See if you can get this through your fucking thick skull: A small self-sufficient community that does not use money does not NEED or WANT any goods or services outside of its community: ergo... all the rest of you imbeciles can go on using money as much as you want and continue to live a miserable unhappy life and die of your many diseases and addictions to your mass manufactured toxic poisoned products and goods and foodstuffs and beverages... While the self-sufficient community I live does not have any of your mass manufactured shit, and as we are all tanned and fit and healthy and drink pure spring water and healthy unprocessed food and enjoy our life: you shitholes can eat your cheese and die from heart failure early in your sick lives and die from cancer of the colon from eating hamburgers and french fries and slave your lives away for MONEY: while we don't work or slave: instead we play and have FUN all day because we don't allow any corporations or businesses into our self-sufficient community and we have no need or desire for your plastic toys or your mass media crap or all the other millions of consumer goods you buy that you don't need to live a healthy life. All of YOU idiots are welcome to waste your lives hoarding money and spending it and doing nothing but buying and selling shit using money. We will be doing thousands of things that are enjoyable and fun and do not involve buying or selling or money.
That's the difference between my small self-sufficient community and your mass-herd need to conform to how all the other billions of idiots live. Understand yet? Or is your fucking thick skull 100% dead rock?
Try living without coffee and beer and pizza and cheese and meat and TV and your computer and shopping and cars and gasoline and insurance policies and stocks and bonds and taxes and high prices and worrying about money and envying people who have money and working for your boss and having to work for a company that doesn't give a fuck about you and uses you... and your mortgage, and your debts piling up and your lost retirement savings and your pension, and praying you won't be fired and what is left of your life? NOTHING. ZERO. That is how spiritually, morally and ethically empty your life is because you use money. Have a wunnerful life moron.
i am all for self sufficient communities. which will need to pay land taxes, buy soil, seed, construction materials- in short- which must use the money system.
So once again, you are being an idiot, because instead of viewing it as a process, you are speaking about it as if it can all happen in one instant.
that IS stupid and insane, and exactly the problem with ignorant ideologues trying to solve problems that are over their heads.
wrong: the only time your self-sufficient community will work is when you stop using money and cooperate without exchanging stupid fucking pieces of paper. You're just another uncreative unimaginative idiot. The only part of self-sufficiency that works is voluntary cooperation. Doing something for MONEY corrupts your entire community. BY being intelligent you will find out and discover hat 00% of the things you THOUGHT you would need to 'buy' with money from the outside, you don't need at all. You can get some worms and start a worm farm for ZERO MONEY. You can make your own mulch and add worms to it and PRESTO! Instant black gold: soil that is rich and ready for use. You can get seeds from ANYWHERE for almost nothing. Most gardeners and perma-culture and organic farmers will gladly give you some of their seeds for NOTHING, and you will make new allies and frinds as you search for people who are like you and have the same healthy goals you do. You can do your OWN construction right from the beginning and learn many useful building trades and skills which will come in handy later on. You can go to the city dump and find tons and loads of useful materials wasteful consumers have thrown away and get it for NOTHING. You can go dumpster diving and find tons of free stuff that is in perfect working order and almost brand new. You can patrol the curbs and roads regularly to find things which people put out to be hauled away or taken away or used by somebody who can use it . There is an unlimited scope of creativity and innovation if you just BEGIN to do it, and the more you approach your GOAL to become 100% self-sufficient WITHOUT USING MONEY... 40%... 50%... 60%... 70%... 80%...90%...100!! The more independent and free you become.the better you will feel and the healthier you will become. Once you can supply and make your own ethanol and repair your own vehicle needed for heavy transport of materials, and your set up your own machine shop and your own smithy... what happens when you don't need them anymore... eh? All that slave work gives you what? A COPY of the same way you used to live, without exploring your inner self. Now what do you do with your life? You've been brainwashed into working as a SLAVE: gonna keep on slaving away working? WHY? WHAT FOR?... No WORK! But I'm used to being a slave! Then what will you do, eh? No luxury, no snobbery: no work needed to be done: 100% self-sufficient: THEN WHAT?
Before you will EVER be ready to change anything: you must CHANGE YOURSELF. And all of you lazy slobs are to scared and lazy and spoiled rotten to do it. IN order to CREATE a new culture... you must first LEARN to be CREATIVE. IN order to create a culture and community based upon happiness and fun and play... you must first LEARN how to play and have fun. YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO IT YET idiot. You must LEARN how to create your OW#N happiness instead of SUCKING OFF something, instead of SUCKING on something, instead of filling your mouth: fill your hrast and soul and mind and body with new ideas and experiment and explore what it is to be a human being. YOU HAVE NOT DONE THIS: I have, and I found out that anybody can be creative. I found out that creativity is easy if you are happy and energetic and impossible if you are miserable, bored and lazy
The point is when you don't use money: you don't have to pay anybody ANYTHING. You do ALL your OWN work. You don't have paid slaves to do it for you The only thing that your money will be good for is to set UP the basic equipment and materials you will need to begin the formation of your self-sufficient community and that takes intelligent planning and ingenuity and creativity.
This video shows the world the point
Nerds gather to show their support of the 99%
http://youtu.be/lFaLB8_l0No
It shows your attitude towards the OW movement which is 1% of the people of the world who are against 99% of the people of the world
"Instead, I have you talking smack about the killmoney perspective," perspective? now your trolling lingo is a whole perspective? " calling it violent and saying other absurd things." there is nothing absurd about pointing out that kill m...See More
3 hours ago · Like
John Bassist
"So I'm curious John. What solutions are you presenting?" The list is nearly endless. Geothermal power, localization of economics, permaculture, self sufficient community.. I have real solutions. Most relevant to THIS discussion lets talk...See More
3 hours ago · Like
John Bassist "kill money" is not a transition plan. Its a stupid, evil, violent, pointless, non solution, its an infantile and pathetic and ignorant non solution, its exactly why we can't get scientists involved in your so called movement. Stop being stupid ignorant infantile adolescent trolls and start being a social movement. You can't do both. Choose.
3 hours ago · Like
John Bassist which is it? social movement? or anti capitalism troll cult? You seem to have already unfortunately made up your mind. I don't hang time with trolls people get the idea somehow that i'm one of them... you know... the whole bit about being careful about what your freinds say about you.
3 hours ago · Like
Lorenzo Segarra
John chill out here bro,we are all on the same team. Its clear that there are some communication issues here. I think its clear the kill money project isn't something you've taken the time out to understand, so please let's clear the air. E...See More
2 hours ago · Like
John Bassist
"ohn chill out here bro,we are all on the same team. Its clear that there are some communication issues here. I think its clear the kill money project isn't something you've taken the time out to understand," Nor am i going to take any tim...See More
about an hour ago · Like
Andre Burrell No point. Bassist = Paranoid troll with mental issues :-\
I've dealt with him in the Shit's Got to Go group and he's the same way. Just repeats the same thing with no particular reasoning as to why he believes what he does. Just a troll with a fake profile :-\
20 minutes ago · Like
John Bassist i love that its so obvious who the real trolls are. The trolls are the people with no solutions, who are proposing and promulgating social violence, while they merely attack and demean corporatism. I'm the problem solver, and that makes the "kill" meme and you people trolling with it my problem. Andre just another fine example of trapped matrix mind. Projecting your collective shadow at me instead of seeing the simple truth; which is in this case that "kill money" is a wrecklessly infantile meme, which alienates more people than it convinces and which operates in actuality to absolve you of any REAL RESPONSIBILITY , prevent you or anyone from doing the actual work, a stupid, irresponsible and patently evil meme which in essence allows you to define only the social violence you intend to do and double think that your not doing. I'm the lucid, I have the real solutions, but your going to draw on and swipe and slash at me; because your a bunch of brain dead "kill money" zombies instead of participants in any kind of real social movement, or social evoluitionary event. Your giving the capitalist the black pawns they need to scare their sheeple stupid and dupe them; your only serving the "socialism" fear machine. Your just GIVING the elites the villains they need to make it seem like its either their way or debased anarchistic immoral unethical insanity. "kill" who do you think that turns on aside from people already convinced money is a problem? Get real. Grow up.
9 minutes ago · Like
John Bassist Accusing me of having mental issues. What a bunch of evil bastards TZM is. When you can't handle the truth you attack somebodies sanity. Who are the real trolls? excuse me?
9 minutes ago · Like
John Bassist and my profile is completely real. name one thing not real about it.
8 minutes ago · Like
John Bassist Andre Burrel = sleepwalking TZM cult zombie; out trolling against the truth and anybody who knows whats real and calling us the trolls when deep down inside you all know he is. Your all playing a stupid evil secret unsecret game. You know darn well i'm the one with the truth and the light and the real information. but you'd rather be on the moral high ground and have your evil cult club than facilitate real social evolution- because TZMers are universally afraid of WORK. And thats all "kill money " is- a means to the end of defining the problem so that its all crime and no sweat. Violence. violence which you SAY you don't REALLY mean.. but which you carry out- every day- against the truth- and people like me bothering to tell it. Put down your swords and step away from human extinction. "Kill money" is just one more path to everybody dies. Not a transition plan.
5 minutes ago · Like
John Bassist A transition plan means we USE money, We EVOLVE money, We TRANSCEND money. "Kill" does not enter into that. noway. nohow. ever.
4 minutes ago · Like
"All of you are haggling about money.
Get rid of it"
temper tantrums against money are stupid. while your basic gist sounds neat, you can't just get rid of money, and trying to get rid of money shows that you have not contemplated or understood the complexities of the issues. Simple simple simple solutions ignore the real world complexity. trying to solve the problem from the wrong end, all you would accomplish is to harm millions or billions of people. Everyone depends on that system like a giant tit. cut the tit off and everyone whos nourished by it dies or starves.
Giving your NEGATIVE Energy to something only GIVES your (-) time and Energy to it. (duh)
So I'm curious John. What solutions are you presenting?" The list is nearly endless. Geothermal power, localization of economics, permaculture, self sufficient community.. I have real solutions. Most relevant to THIS discussion lets talk about PHRASING things in an ADULT and LUCID manner instead of just becoming anti capitalism trolls. " Any movements you're a part of that you agree with in ideology, or are you just here to criticize actual movements?" I agree with the general direction of tzm. I'm just sick and tired of all the stupid and evil and stupid and evil which tzm keeps heaping on to make my job of saving the humans far more difficult.
"Instead, I have you talking smack about the killmoney perspective," perspective? now your trolling lingo is a whole perspective? " calling it violent and saying other absurd things." there is nothing absurd about pointing out that kill money is a violent and anti science and anti intellectual meme. " John, you should know me by now, I don't believe in violence, " then preach solutions, not violence. "I just believe in the death of an age old notion, that actually proves to be most violent idea outside of WMD's." great, and i agree with that in principle which is exactly why i'd like to not have all my allies making us all look like frigging 13 year olds who can't tell the difference between violence and real world problem solving process. " So stop the sillyness john, " you stop the sillyness. please. "there are better ways you can go about any differences you have with my ppoints of view" i have run this lame meme over and over and over and ever again with tzmers. i have been nice, i have been kind, i have been diplomatic. You all don't listen, and you keep in essence taking us down the road towards doom. I'd like to have REAL allies, not stupid anticapitalists making us all look bad with punk azz moron propaganda which any ADULT wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.
John Bassist again with the "kill" meme. sigh.
22 hours ago · Like
Andre Burrell John Bassist = paranoid troll.
21 hours ago · Like · 2 people
John Bassist bull. I'm no kind of troll. the "kill" meme is stupid and evil.
10 hours ago · Like
John Bassist thats the problem with tzmers. They have only violence and stupid rhetoric based in violence- not one whit of sophistication or depth or real solutions... just more death and evil to add to the problem.
10 hours ago · Like
John Bassist and THEN they want to make it everybody elses fault and problem, and diabolize everyone else... when they are the ones running stupid and evil.
10 hours ago · Like
John Bassist
"kill money". 90 percent of the food people eat on this planet is attached to 9 pounds of fuel for every pound of food. if you just kill money, the food distribution network fails and then everyone DIES. Killing money is not a solution, it...See More
9 hours ago · Like
John Bassist Thats NOT a TRANSITION PLAN, its an adolescent ego trip
9 hours ago · Like
Andre Burrell See what I mean?
:)
9 hours ago · Like
Andre Burrell So I'm curious John. What solutions are you presenting? Any movements you're a part of that you agree with in ideology, or are you just here to criticize actual movements?
9 hours ago · Like
Lorenzo Segarra
Because ppl need money for survival? John please......stop trolling; your better than this. PS - I sent you an email over a month ago looking to collaborate, have yet to hear anything. Instead, I have you talking smack about the killmoney p...See More
3 hours ago · Like · 1 person
John Bassist I'm not trolling. "Kill money" is a problem meme, its exactly whats wrong with tzm in one meme. Not a solution, not a problem solving process, not a transition plan; more violence. more stupid ignorant trolling. Whos trolling? your proposing we "kill money" your trolling money live. I'm the one asking you to grow The F up.
3 hours ago · Like
John Bassist
uhhhh... dummy: you can.
You need to cut down on the weed, son: your brains are fried. Nobody has the faintest clue what you're babbling about and what;s more...neither do you.
haha troll. all you have is a two line ad hom. pathetic.
'haha'? get lost troll
I fully support this movement but wtf are you people talking about. Going back to a bartering system? You can't deny basic human nature and i'm sorry but hugs and kisses are only a part of that nature. What are you gonna do when your crops don't come in and the next farm owner doesn't need your hugs and kisses or anything you have to offer. You are the kind of people who jeopardize this movement more any fox news or corporation. Let's focus on campaign finance reform, infrastructure, and educations as a way forward for america. These things have a mojority of american's support and have real benifits going forward. Once your politicians are listening again then you can ask them for your barter system. I mean wtf people.
No barter system. I am speaking of a new way of living. No politicians. No business as usual. No business at all. No work. No money. No greed.
What is so pathetic about all of you is that you can't imagine anything but your own selfishness. You assume I am going to create the same selfish kind of society you already live in, with the same selfish assholes and idiots doing the same stupid selfish idiotic things... except without money.
The reason your vision is so dead: is because YOU are SPIRITUALLY dead. All you can see is the past: not a future. If you ever change your basic root personality: that of a drug addicted addict to weapons of mass distraction which are built and sold to you and given to you for free; if you ever stop assuming that the ethic of self-gratification is good. If you ever realize that self-gratification is evil.... then maybe you will develop and grow up enough to have a more mature understanding of the world and yourself.
I hold no hope for your generation of tech-freaks. Your brains are permanently fried.
I fully support this movement but wtf are you people talking about. Going back to a bartering system? You can't deny basic human nature and i'm sorry but hugs and kisses are only a part of that nature. What are you gonna do when your crops don't come in and the next farm owner doesn't need your hugs and kisses or anything you have to offer. You are the kind of people who jeopardize this movement more any fox news or corporation. Let's focus on campaign finance reform, infrastructure, and educations as a way forward for america. These things have a mojority of american's support and have real benifits going forward. Once your politicians are listening again then you can ask them for your barter system. I mean wtf people.
Everybody says there is this RACE problem. Everybody says this RACE problem will be solved when the third world pours into EVERY white country and ONLY into white countries.
The Netherlands and Belgium are just as crowded as Japan or Taiwan, but nobody says Japan or Taiwan will solve this RACE problem by bringing in millions of third worlders and quote assimilating unquote with them.
Everybody says the final solution to this RACE problem is for EVERY white country and ONLY white countries to “assimilate,” i.e., intermarry, with all those non-whites.
What if I said there was this RACE problem and this RACE problem would be solved only if hundreds of millions of non-blacks were brought into EVERY black country and ONLY into black countries?
How long would it take anyone to realize I’m not talking about a RACE problem. I am talking about the final solution to the BLACK problem?
And how long would it take any sane black man to notice this and what kind of psycho black man wouldn’t object to this?
But if I tell that obvious truth about the ongoing program of genocide against my race, the white race, Liberals and respectable conservatives agree that I am a naziwhowantstokillsixmillionjews.
They say they are anti-racist. What they are is anti-white.
Anti-racist is a code word for anti-white.
Turak, Friends & Allies, The post is a brilliantly inspired, insightful restatement of what the most sustainable cultures in human history thrived on for 100s or 1000s of millennia. My only critique is the unfounded, overly negative notion that the 1% will perish. The ancient Gifting & Sharing Cultures valued giving & sharing as the prime measure of wealth. The 1% of us are still part of us, and have lots of potential for helping us turn this Poison Planet into Medicine Mandala Paradise. Anyone who thinks otherwise is suffering PTSD related retardation that keeps the Culture of Cowardice/Hate/War & destruction going strong. For more background see the Greenbook > http://mm-greenbook.blogspot.com < see the Table of Contents for relevant sections.
you are not logical and you do not have any understanding of what is GOOD and what is evil. Selfishness cannot co-exist with giving and sharing. Anyone who thinks the top 1% are any good for this earth has a reversed understanding. The planet is not poison: it is humans who have poisoned it with plastic and nuclear radioactive waste. Again: you are reversing the facts because you are dyslexic. Before humans invented civilization; there was no such things as chemical poisoning of the planet. If you want to love Nature: you must learn to live in Nature: not inside the artificial womb called civilization. The most selfish top 1%o of humanity are the living examples which all of you copy. Civilization is structured pyramidally. All of you need to learn to stop worshiping the tops of things. Higher is worse; not better: lower is worse not better. Equality is better. Equality is the best possible social structure there is; not accumulation. One-sided accumulation is artificial. Natural accumulations melt away and decompose to be re-composed into organic Life. Artificial accumulations go against how the Universe works. Stars that become too big explode and destroy themselves including everything around them. That is what happens when you have overpopulation of one species: they go stark mad. They become crazed lemmings, insane settlers traveling 2,000 miles across the most fertile land on earth, to settle at the edge of the other side of the continent just to get away from each other, with their blind westward impetus only stopped by the pacific ocean.
No point of starting a new community while the rest of the world still on the same system. They are going to keep destroying and taking resources from the Earth. It is kind of selfish to stop and live your hug and kisses economy and don't try to change for the ones that can't do anything. And I don't say it about starving kids on Africa, I say this about the trees, animals and oceans. Unawareness it is not the solution. I would say that we have a third choice: love the nature.
No point? Oh... so you will only start a new community after the whole planet has been destroyed: Not before. Where do they keep numbskulls like you? In a jar next to the ex-lax?
So it is selfish to create a community based upon sharing and equality without trying to save 7 billion imbeciles like you? SO everyone must be saved or nothing. All or nothing. We must instantly save everyone at the same time regardless of who they are or where they are. And if we can't do this: we shouldn't do it at all? We must save everyone? So we must save the Queen of England and Dick Cheney also? Just exactly how do you plan on doing this? Please go back into your jar and screw the lid down very tight and don;t come out again.
Hmmmm.....don't think it's gonna fly quite yet.
you don't think PERIOD: You like all the other deadbeats on this thread have no mental acuity whatsoever and no ability to learn and no ability to change.
What all you spoiled babies will never realize is that before you change the world you must first change YOURSELVES and kick all your drug habits and all your bad habits. It is all of you who are preventing any change from happening by clinging to the old ways even after you know they are bad for you.
I like it. Walk away from their game and create a new game.
Hugs for food, hugs for homes (how many hugs would that take?)
Think globally, hug locally?
wrong: no food, no homes. no middle class crap. Do you know what you are? You are the 2nd most richest segment of human society: you come right after the top 1%, and not one of you give a shit about all the people, all the BILLIONS of people who are much much poorer than you are... Do you know WHY none of you care a damn about all the people who are poorer than you? Because you have been copying how the richest 1% of the world lives for over 10,000 fucking years... and after 10,000 fucking years... a tiny segment of poor people got lucky... and managed to scrape a little of the wealth off the backs of the top 1% of the greediest fuckers on earth, and went on copying and absorbing every VICE, every ADDICTION, every insane culture the top 1% had 100 years ago... Until now, all of you drink your black liquid drugs, walk your fucking upper-class poodles and shitsu's like the wealthy once did 100 years ago... sit in your fucking coffee shops pretending to be a culture of leisure and in front of your TV screens and computers screens pretending to be the richest most spoiled asses in the world. Each rich middle class family with their home as the CASTLE, their plastic toys and snob activities of the uppermost crap possible.
And now you are upset because your class is disappearing and all of you are going back to being poor again. Fighting over money for YOU. Not for the billions people who need that money a thousand times more than any of you will ever need it.
When you walk away from the game you ALSO walk away from all the toys and cars and machines and buildings and homes, and computers and cell phones and companies and stores and shops and Life you once enjoyed as the 2nd tier of the greediest nation on earth. Think you can do that?
I do not own a home, or a car, or a television. I know that everything that America has was built on the backs of those our government bombed into oblivion with their model of capitalism and regime change. It is heart breaking to realize this. But I can still offer a hug and a smile. It really is the best currency of all. And it will actually be a good thing if America is taken down to the levels that it has brought others around the world to with its policies. Chop wood, carry water, put down that iPod.
I'll believe what you say when I see where you live and how you live and what kind of person you actually are. It is so easy to lie over the internet... almost everyone does it.
You don't have to believe me. But I have no reason to lie either. Take it as you will. You sure are angry, turak. Who really pisses you off? Why? Have YOU walked away from your toys yet?
You do not understand how brainwashed you are. Your culture has brainwashed you into emotional death. You're emotionally dead.
The emotions you do not have is the humanity you are missing
There is no such thing as an abstract hug. You cannot hug a person over the internet. Words have no meaning when they are not connected to action.
Your entire global culture is now obsessed with toys and toy pets and treating other human beings as if they are plastic toys.
Let me ask you a question: do you really want to understand why your society is fucked up or not?
You do not understand how brainwashed you are. Your culture has brainwashed you into emotional death. You're emotionally dead.
The emotions you do not have is the humanity you are missing
There is no such thing as an abstract hug. You cannot hug a person over the internet. Words have no meaning when they are not connected to action.
Your entire global culture is now obsessed with toys and toy pets and treating other human beings as if they are plastic toys.
Let me ask you a question: do you really want to understand why your society is fucked up or not?
Turok, what happened to the hugs? Didn't you start this post about hugs and kisses instead of money? You appear to be one of the most violent people on this whole forum, you sound like you just want to KILL everybody here, not give them a hug. If you can't show us the love, then it's just bull shit, same as what you rail against. LOOK AT YOURSELF, you are not helping anyone see what you say you want them to see, you are bombing the crap out of everyone. You are making this about HATE, not Love.
You avoided answering my question: this proves that you don't give a fuck about anyone but yourself and you are not interested in finding out the truth about yourself and the society in which you exist..
Filth like you want things given to them: You only want to take because you cannot give love to anyone including yourself. This is you:
" gimme, gimme, gimme.... Waaaaah! Gimme, gimme, gimme...waaaah! I want love! Gimme! gimme! gimme!"
Immature little babies like you do not understand that love is reciprocal and is created: not accumulated or bought or sold. Love is not a consumer product: you fucking imbecile. In this world you get what you deserve. When you are a selfish asshole: you get NO love, NO respect and nobody trusts you.
Furthermore: you are imagining shit. Your idea of violence over an internet forum is the biggest bunch of bullshit ever invented.
You assume to know me. You do not know me. Enjoy your hell.
The fact that you do not dare to let anyone know you. The fact that you hide who you are and run away is proof that everything i say about you is TRUE. If what I said about you is not true: you would have told me and proved to me that you are not that kind of person... but you didn't. You will not enjoy your selfish existence: I can guarantee you that.
The fact that you do not dare to let anyone know you. The fact that you hide who you are and run away is proof that everything i say about you is TRUE. If what I said about you is not true: you would have told me and proved to me that you are not that kind of person... but you didn't. You will not enjoy your selfish existence: I can guarantee you that.
LOL!!!!'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And Brutus was ambitious.
Brutus was a murderer: he did not create anything but hatred and envy and his own death: which is exactly the motives of the OW movement. The OW movement is based upon: a negative energy; not positive energy..
Are you really that fucking retarded that you don't understand the difference between creating a community and fighting over money?? Mobsters and drug gangs fight over money. Drug lord fight over money. Governments fight over money. Selfish assholes fight over money. People go to court to fight over money. Do you see any of them happy? Are any people fighting over money ever happy? Show me one rich person that is happy and I will show you a miserable unhappy selfish person who thinks money is more important than LIFE itself. Do you have a fucking brain or is that a pumpkin on your shoulders?
Brutus was a murderer: he did not create anything but hatred and envy and his own death: which is exactly the motives of the OW movement. The OW movement is based upon: a negative energy; not positive energy..
Are you really that fucking retarded that you don't understand the difference between creating a community and fighting over money?? Mobsters and drug gangs fight over money. Drug lord fight over money. Governments fight over money. Selfish assholes fight over money. People go to court to fight over money. Do you see any of them happy? Are any people fighting over money ever happy? Show me one rich person that is happy and I will show you a miserable unhappy selfish person who thinks money is more important than LIFE itself. Do you have a fucking brain or is that a pumpkin on your shoulders?
A fine read while enjoying a Cuban cigar and 25 year old single malt. I am rather happy!
Wrong: you are an asshole. You do not know what happiness is. You're a commercial on TV. You're a copy of every fucking advertising scam ever sold to imbeciles like you. You equate selfishness with happiness. You are the REVERSE of what all the people in this movement stand for. Thank you for exposing yourself and telling everyone what a piece of shit you actually are: now fuck off.
And your anger toward me comes from............? No, I am VERY happy with the life I have secured, through great sacrifice. I left college with 5k in debt in 1993. So you know what I did, went to depaul for grad work, coached on the side and came out in1995 with 35k in debt. Got married late '95, combined debt for a pediatric nurse and h.s teacher (at a private school - a whole 27k a yr salary) 52k. Saved, invested, sacrificed and payed off loan in 3 years. Left teaching and strated my own business. Sold that company in one year. Started another, sold that one too. Now on my third enterprise. Oh, and the, left nursing for business. Now an executive V.P. So we went from the 99 to the 3 percent. This by no means is typical, but I will neither apologize nor pander to those who believe somehow that am evil because I worked my ass off! I am not trying to put anyone down here nor create friction, but there is a story of real success that is overlooked by OWS - not everyone who "makes it" by some artificial standard was given a free pass.
The piont is: IF you are not lying right now: which I expect to be the case: Then you are the PERFECT example of why 99% of the human species wants to string you up by the balls right now. You are a PERFECT example of arrogance, smugness. You are a PERFECT example of an ASSHOLE who believe that success is measured in DOLLARS... MONEY. You are the PERFECT example of assholes who believe that money is more important than life. You are a PERFECT example of the top 1%.
You mistake my attitude towards you: it is one of disgust and revulsion. I despise assholes like you. That is something you will never understand and never fathom. You can't imagine people who don't wantyour stinking money and who would not want to come near you because you stink of greed, arrogance, smugness and stupidity.
Wow, funny. First off, I never recall referring to you in simplistic terms. You proposed the first "asshole" moniker. In terms of the untold fortunes that reside in my Panamanian accounts (the Cayman is so passé after the IRS caught on) is a rather inflated interpretation. We live a comfortable lifestyle in a 1950's ranch. After saving for 10 years, we have gutted and updated. We vacation once a year, our cars are paid for. You'd never know nor conceive perfection attempted or attained. I never assumed ambition to betters ones position was an evil entity in and of itself. Your passionate diatribe should support your efforts well. I pulled myself, the youngest of five boys, born on the south side of Chicago, to an IBEW Ma Bell telephone worker ( which was broke up to become AT&T) and a mother who became a teacher assistant....and somehow, in your eyes, and many others, I'm an A-hole because I sacrificed and enjoy some minor fruits. Well, if I were truly $$$$$$$$ , as you refer, I'd take out a one page Sunday advertisement and publish this dialogue. Many would come to recognize the insincere elements that invoke what should be an honorable movement. You encompass the very meaning behind the following from S. T. Coleridge. . ." Water, water every where, And all the boards did shrink, Water water every where, Nor any drop to drink."
You protest too much: your guilty conscience is driving you to confess your sins and crimes in public; your crimes will be noted. Crowing about your hidden wealth? You're a despicable piece of shit..
You protest too much: your guilty conscience is driving you to confess your sins and crimes in public; your crimes will be noted. Crowing about your hidden wealth? You're a despicable piece of shit..
You are a true sick puppy sans intelligence. And further indurate visa via your inability to quote within context..."the lady doth protest too much, me thinks." Should you represent 1/1,000,000,000 of the OWS, I shall rest rather well. ".....and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth." The passivity of the Internet generation has served you well. You can find the answer and yet never know the actual context. And as for guilt? Let's try this......." a man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery". See my screen name to figure this out........"he was a frantic fool, hiding his better jests in blunt behavior". So sad......you are so VERY sad. Ah, now where did that 25 yr. Old single malt go?
you are a piece of shit: get used to being despised... your pathetic lame crap is meaningless and has no context. Do you always freak out when someone has your number? You will rest in hell: arrogant assholes are disgusting: especially when they begin babbling like babies. You protest way too fucking much.
What truth? You have indurated further. Please, provide citation. Such a fool trying to remain ardent in mind.
The truth that you are a greedy selfish prick who does not acre about anything but money
LOL, LOL. No doubt....I can't take this as a serious polemic. No, I do not freak out, just realize the sad education you were afforded and let you brood. Good luck and I hope tax $$$$ help you get the guidance needed. LOL great fun.
You're still protesting against the truth: fuck off: you're revolting.
You're still protesting against the truth: fuck off: you're revolting.
there will always be a rationing device. if its not paper money it will be gold, or rocks, or cocoanuts.
Let me play the dismal scientist here:
As soon as hugs and kisses become currency they will become scarce and people will find a way to hoard them.
go ahead fruitcake: see how many hugs you can save Where are you going to store all these imaginary hugs? Up your imaginary ass? IN your empty bubble head?
your theory is so economically blind that it is embarassing
wrong: the responses to my post are so stupid they are embarrassing. All of you: every single fucking braindead dead soul of you: avoid facing what I tell you. The idea invented: The invented idea of exchanging dead things for money. This idea this dehumanizing idea has dehumanized all of you fucking dehumanized robots: that you do not even realize you have been systematically dehumanized and brainwashed into becoming mechanical identical drones with NO creativity, NO human emotions, NO human morals NO human decency, NO human understanding.and NO human intelligence.
What is OBVIOUS in all of the moronic responses on this thread is that none of you are even capable of discussing the idea of getting rid of money. None of you are even CAPABLE of facing it. All you fucking drones do is repeat over and over your fucking boring NEGATIVE knee-jerk reaction to the only positive idea which can save you from your own stupidity.
You speak of economics when you have no : NO understanding of what it is to be human. You have a choice: you can either love money and fight over it and hate yourself and hate and envy others and live a miserable life.
Or you can get rid of money and discover how much happiness you can create by helping other people without exchanging pieces of fucking paper.
Your level of stupidity is so bad... lower than the most moronic idiots on the internet, that intelligent people who read your fucking pathetic one-liners: As they read and see how totally illiterate, uneducated, ibnorant, misinformed and just plain zonked out of your gourds you freaks are... will realize that a person who is eloquent and rational and has something meaningful to say: is superior to five hundred idiots who have nothing to say except 'no'.
I can negate all 500 of you idiots by putting all of you into one category of stupid negative naysayers and saying 'no' to you. The difference is: I can back it up. I can prove I am right. I can prove all of you are wrong. NONE of you can do that. NONE of you can prove I am wrong because I'm RIGHT.
ill give you three flowers, two hugs, and an IOU for sugar, spice, and everything nice if you go take an economics class
No
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
how about a lifetime supply of jolly ranchers?
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
This statement will not help you in your fight for justice.
I'm not fighting for justice you fucking moron: I'm creating justice. It's the idiots sleeping on the street on wallstreet who are fighting for justice: and they will not get any justice. That is the point. Why fight for something you will never get? The whole idea is moronic. Occupy wallstreet? Like the richest people in the world are going to let the poorest people take over the running of their financial system? How stupid can you be? You want to get rid of wallstreet not occupy it.
If your post is directed at me:Let me enlighten you: I am not fighting for justice: I am creating it: This is what you simply cannot get into your thick heads. Creating beats fighting hands down every time. Fighting gets you nowhere. Fighting over money gets you less than nowhere. You do not fight against a system that is irretrievably corrupt: you replace it with something that is better.
I'm curious: are all of you fucking imbeciles so devoid of creativity that none of you believe that you have no creative ability whatsoever?
Or have all of you been brainwashed into some weird religion where you believe that you can only create IMAGINARY shit in your brains, but nowhere else? If you can't create anything: if you're just a dumb suck;: a selfish consuming machine: with no human attributes: just a mouth that ears and drinks and eyes that absorb images from the propaganda machines of TV and the internet: then of course you can't even imagine the possibility of creating your own community... But if, like me, you've seen communities being created, and lived in them, and watched them die: you will understand that how you create a community is very important: and what you base your community on is crucial to whether it will survive or not.
All of the communities and cultures which existed for thousands of years were recently destroyed by the new culture of capitalist commercial consumerism. You aren't old enough to have seen it happen. I saw it happen. And I know why it happened. It happened because all the old cultures and traditions and customs were not positive.
If your post is directed at me:Let me enlighten you: I am not fighting for justice: I am creating it: This is what you simply cannot get into your thick heads. Creating beats fighting hands down every time. Fighting gets you nowhere. Fighting over money gets you less than nowhere. You do not fight against a system that is irretrievably corrupt: you replace it with something that is better.
I'm curious: are all of you fucking imbeciles so devoid of creativity that none of you believe that you have no creative ability whatsoever?
Or have all of you been brainwashed into some weird religion where you believe that you can only create IMAGINARY shit in your brains, but nowhere else? If you can't create anything: if you're just a dumb suck;: a selfish consuming machine: with no human attributes: just a mouth that ears and drinks and eyes that absorb images from the propaganda machines of TV and the internet: then of course you can't even imagine the possibility of creating your own community... But if, like me, you've seen communities being created, and lived in them, and watched them die: you will understand that how you create a community is very important: and what you base your community on is crucial to whether it will survive or not.
All of the communities and cultures which existed for thousands of years were recently destroyed by the new culture of capitalist commercial consumerism. You aren't old enough to have seen it happen. I saw it happen. And I know why it happened. It happened because all the old cultures and traditions and customs were not positive.
Please attend an anger management class and do us all a favor and learn to form allies instead of enemies.
NO NO NO
I am 100% for OWS but this is... NO.
But like this guy said below me, "Your idea is cute though"
You are a broken record. Broken records are dead things that repeat themselves until they wear out. Dead things that repeat themselves are not alive: they are dead souls terrified of truth.
I think many people, especially the pundits, editorialists, and columnists, miss the point about who and what “Occupy Wall Street”ers are targeting with their anger. Although an diverse and inhomogeneous group, they’re not generally against business, capitalism, free markets, or entrepreneurialism. It’s about WALL STREET; a system of legal gambling that has developed over the past few decades where a few major investors bet on the success or failure of big corporations, and always win no matter the outcome. It’s a system that now controls the economy, public policy, and the government.
The idea of the stock market was initially a good idea; people would invest in companies they believed would do well and it gave the companies capital for development and expansion. Customers, investors, and the companies all benefited. But this system has become so corrupt that now Wall Street executives have developed complex instruments to guarantee their success no matter what, and use manipulation and deceit to get people to buy stuff they don’t need and which is detrimental to their health and welfare, just to benefit major stockholders and the system. Major stockholders reap huge profits by betting on either outcome; if the company succeeds they gain financial rewards, and if the corporations fail they have insurance (what companies like AIG offers) to protect their investments so they don‘t lose. Corporate CEOs are hired, at obscene salaries, and fired based only on their ability to make huge profits for investors regardless, of the social and environmental costs. The only losers are the general public -- we consumers.
Many people seem to believe that government, particularly the federal government, should be the target of this public anger. Government is an easy target because we pay for it, we own it, and it should do our bidding. But government is also a pawn of this powerful system. Politicians are selected by the major stock market investors, policy is made with their influence, and our options are decided by them. It’s not a free market but the stock market; controlled by the major investors who direct it. And it’s a system that cannot be held accountable by law or sued because it's a just a system; not a specific person, organization, or corporation. It’s a system that is controlled by the high-stakes gamblers who have loaded the dice in their favor.
When we individual consumers get no satisfaction or customer service, we have little recourse. If we call about a product or service, we have to go through several selections to get to "please hold, your call is very important to us ..." Then we wait to get some guy with an East Indian accent saying, “My name is Harold, how can I help you?“ But help you he can’t, your problem is beyond his control and there’s no “manager” with whom you can speak. If you decide not to buy from that company, most other options are no different. Small, independent companies, which are the backbone of our country and the source of jobs and social and environmental responsibility, generally are not traded on the stock market. They are few, declining in number, and are suffering from the inequity of policies and economic benefits that major corporations get.
Most individuals, the 99%, have only small investments and little influence on the stock market. But en masse, the American public could have a profound influence. So I say, let’s buy locally as much as possible and sell all our stocks and put the money in our mattresses and let the stock market collapse. We’ll go back to relying on smaller, local and independently-owned businesses. It might hurt each of us a little, but it would hurt this corrupt system a lot.
Only if your end-goal is to do away with all money completely: Disengage yourself from the consumer culture and system: NOT a good idea unless you replace it with something better; unless you KNOW there is something better. Unless you have a definite vision and goal to work towards. First you need to figure out your root ethics and morals: you first need to define what you stand for and what you are driving towards. If you are no different that any of the 7 billion selfish apes on this planet: you will not attract anyone, and you will not create anything better than what exists. Self-sufficient communities are not just the ONLY intelligent practical solution to capitalist globalism: they will happen whether you the movement or not. Selling tomatoes from Mexico, and pickles from Poland to local economies that can easily supply themselves is a false economy which is guaranteed to fail.
kill money memes are infantile and stupid- you are missing the point- things are a lot more complicated than this. creating self sufficient communities is the answer and i am happy to see you putting that forth. but kill money memes are detached from the reality that we will need to use the current system in order to create the next one.
http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ
http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw
http://www.opensecrets.org/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/
Please explain exactly what 'memes is
a meme is a basic idea as expressed and passed around in a fairly short bath of words.
You mean you invented it out of your imagination: it is not in the dictionary.
Stay where you are. Coming out into the real world is not for memes like you
sorry your dictionary is so small.
sorry you are so ignorant.
no, i studied paradigmology and meme is a science term.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme
stop trolling and BSing and bother to get an education.
Ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!
paradig what?
Ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!
MOLOGY??
Ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!h
ignorance is not bliss. laugh it up. you are clearly ignorant.
oh? ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha! Could you please show me how you 'kill' money? Ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha! Do you shoot it with a gun? Ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha! Bang! Ha!ha!ha!ha! da money's dead! Ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha! Oops... it was laready dead before you shot it!' Ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha Tell us how you kill something that was never alive! Ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha! This I've Got to hear! H!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha! Now don't run away... please:... It;s not like I'm making fun of your... er Idea of killing ...er... what?
Okay: I am. Could you explain this to all of us 'ignorant ' people? I haven't had such a good laugh in ages.
i agree, "kill money" is dumb idea.
not sure how you got the idea that i was proposing that.
Because you repeated it TEN TIMES! YOU MORON
Where do these nuts come from?
We need to figure out how the heck to keep these type of posts at the top the forum. Too many people posting. Seconds after a post these things drop like stones.
I think we need to all combine on a post and monitor it daily so that it remains at the forefront.
Does this mean you are interested in creating a self-sufficient community that does not use money or not?
Me? No, I'm just for getting the 1% money and influence out of Washington. Do that and the congress will be free to do the right thing.
Wrong. You are another american monocultural brainwashed fool. You actually believe that your Govt is structured to help you and will given the chance. Govt is your enemy. It is the enemy of the masses and always has been. It uses the masses as slaves: it always has done this and will continue to do it. All centralization of money AND power is evil. Every group of people that has a leader who has power is evil. Leaders are power mongers. They are control freaks. They are professional liars and swindlers and back stabbers.
The only, and I mean the ONLY social structure which is not already corrupt by its very STRUCTURAL MAKEUP is a society of independent self-sufficient equals voluntarily cooperating with each other only if they want to without there being any leadership whatsoever.
I wouldn't exactly characterize myself in those words. Brainwashed fool? Ouch.
Listen, Government is a necessary evil. Once you get beyond hunter gather bands, of 20-25 people, humans need some form of government. It's just the way it is. You cannot and will never find a group of 500 people living without some sort of hierarchical structure. We're just not built that way.
We are human beings, and we are flawed, and we tend to act in our own best interest. what can you do but make the best of it.
I wouldn't call you dumb or brainwashed, but I would call you a little misguided and a bit idealistic. This is the real world and in the real world people act in their own interest.
Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong You are beginning from an unproven assumption you are basing everything you believe in on an assumption which has never been proven However, you ARE a little more aware than most people. Most people possess the exact same mistaken assumption s as you do... but they are not aware enough for that unspoken assumption to reach their conscious mind. YOU... have voiced the unspoken assumption which all humanity believes is true: that Govt is a necessary evil, and that it is impossible to create communities without some kind of hierarchical power structure.
All you are doing is saying 'no' without tryiung and seeing if it is possible or not. If you were truly logical: you would admit that this has never been tried: and so you must say in all honesty: "I do not know"
But you are a brainwashed fool. You have been brainwashed to react negatively to any positive idea. You were raised in a negative environment that taught you to fear things you did not understand. Every healthy instinct and urge of your life has been cut off, stifled, frowned upon, and nipped in the bud by people telling you 'No."... Until you became like them.... Now YOU are the one telling your son 'No." You can't do that. No. Don't do that. No. You're not allowed to do that." I'm assuming you're married and have children.
No more time for this silliness. So long as people remain fixated on some fairy land concept of social organization, this movement will sputter out and fail. There is a single issue here, the money in Washington and the corruption that comes with it. So long as we remain unfocused on this issue this thing is doomed to fail.
But go ahead and knock your self out with your fantasy world where everyone lives in peace and harmony and we all love one another. It might make a good book, but in the real world it's just a waste of time. And I can't waste anymore time with you.
You're missing the whole point: idiot
You see, when you create your own self-sufficient community and shape it to please yourself and live in it and enjoy it with the other people who have helped you to create you9r community: you effectually and efficiently have deleted all of the social ills and problems you suffer from living in a global capitalist system where one financial institution can ruin the lives of billions of innocent people. You have effectively and efficiently cut off all your problems of outside influence on your life. The rest of the world can go to hell in a hand basket... and your self-sufficient community will be doing just fine; thank you very much. In fact you will probably have to beat off people who have been financially devastated by the economic ruin because they use money,while you lecture them on the error of their ways...
Is this getting through the armor plate you call a brain yet?
Once you create your own self-sufficient community: you can tell Washington and your state and local govts to go to fuck themselves because you won't be supporting them anymore with taxes since you don't use money anymore... is this trickling into that empty vacuum you call a brain yet, numbskull?
Creating your own self-sufficient community makes you invulnerable to all the disaster and crisis and craziness going on all around you. All the corruption and scandals and uprisings and marches and protests will be things you are not interested in because they will not affect you at all...
Getting the picture yet, doofus? Self-sufficient communities are the logical solution and answer to global capitalism, and it will effectively KILL global capitalism quicker and faster than all the armies and navies and arir forces in the world
If your looking for that life style then why don't you go to South America, travel deep into the Amazon, and find a nice, hunter gather band to live with.
As for me, I'll remain in the real world, and actually work towards some realistic solution.
Wrong: amazon stone age tribes are just as brainwashed and stupid as you are. I am creating my one community which will be made up exclusively: and I mean EXCLUSIVELY only of people who are intelligent and positive, who are logical and practical. This of course excludes all of you unrealistic imbeciles from joining.
I have to respond to this post, because again, no reply button on your latest and greatest, inspiring, well written, well articulated post.
Yes, communities are at least 12-36, but the one your looking to create only has room for a single insane inhabitant, and that's you.
I have no idea what your trying to convey, but I have to admit, it makes me laugh. You are my comic relief in this forum. I thank you for that and I look forward to our conversations. I really do.
why do you assholes continue to lie through your teeth? Scared up the pole of your own fucking boring megalomania and you ain't comin' down until its safe... stay up your fucking pole and shut up" you're a waste
A community of one. Good luck, I wish you all the best.
wrong: a community is at least 12-36 people who cooperate intelligently with each other on the basis of individual equality.
Youo're a mindless ant that doesn't want to live like this because you belong to one of the stupidest generations ever born... and have convinced yourselves! Now this is the REAL joke... that by congregating yourselves together into an ABSTRACT city of massed millions over the internet: your NUMBERS define your level of intelligence! In fact the more millions of you zombies there are on the internet... the more convinced of your own non-existent intelligent each one of you becomes!
Ever hear of China?... China had human idiots for 7,000 years now: all living together in packed masses... Now in all these 7,000 years of Chinese peasants packing themselves into overpopulated regions of farmland...ever hear of an intelligent Chinese peasant that stood out of the crowd who was more intelligent than any of the others?...
NOT
And neither do you.
Somehow I believe that things will first have to get worse, much worse. Dollar or Euro collapse - the OCW movement is really taking on the most powerfull interest groups in the world, carlyle group, blackstone, the FED, ... these people are not just going to take a step back and hand over there power - money is power, at least in this day and age.
yeah, but how are we going to disband this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpHp_deaBs8
You don't waste your time fighting greedy people ti get their effing money! you idiot. Unless.... you are as greedy as they are... in which case it doesn't matter who has all the money. Greedy idiots fighting over money are greedy idiots fighting over money... wake uu for god's sake: You're playing their game! They LIKE having you poor slobs sleeping on the street while they go home to their mansions!
What you do is create your own communities and your own society without using ANY of their money, and without buying anything from them... This way they will DIE without you even touching them. They will implode: they will go insane they will go nuts... while you laugh at them as they die.
It's already happening on wallstreet! People are sharing everything and helping the protesters with money! All kinds of help is being funneled into that street for the demonstrators... WITHOUT ANY MONEY PASSING HANDS. This has sparked in them a feeling not only of community! But of WORLDWIDE COMMUNITY. The whole world is applauding them as they try to fight against the ultras-rich... It's a class war you people and you don't even know it's happening in front of your noses: the 99% of the world are finally fed UP with these bastards on wallstreet... so what to do? Get rid of their SYSTEM you fools: get rid of the SYSTEM that makes them so rich. Don't buy into the system> create your own communities and your own systems that don't use money.
local communtities, doing away with money sure ... I'd like that too but the problem is that there are very big interest groups who stand to gain or lose these interest if the system is changed in any way that doesn't suit them.
It's not just the federal reserve, it's companies like monsanto who are making sure that the 7 billion people on this planet will find it increasingly difficult to sustain themselves locally. also look at European union or United States agricultural policies and subsisdies.
Again your idea of abandoning money and start going local is very admirable and eventually we will have to transition to a radically different, less complex, more local world. But first you should realize that the only way in which most of the 7billion people on this planet today can be fed and housed (well fed, a much lower number) is through a vast system that is staggeringly complex and interconnected, a system of global trade and money flows.
Making this transition will be very painfull, and the more we keep postponing, procrastinating, trying to live by the paradigm of perpetual economic growth, the harder the landing will be.
to give you an idea about our modern day dependance on global trade and the money system and the difficulty of having a more localized way of life you might wanna read William Catton's book Overshoot and his explanation of ghost acreage, consider the following excert:
By 1965 more than half of Britain’s sustenance was coming from ghost acreage. If food could not be obtained from the sea (6.5%) or from other nations (48%), more than half of Britain would have faced starvation, or all British people would have been less than half nourished. Likewise, if Japan could not have drawn upon fisheries all around the globe and upon trade with other nationzs, two-thirds of her people would have been starving, or every Japanese Citizen would have been two-thirds undernourished (which presumably means that nearly all might die. Yet this was the most prosperous nation in the Orient, the one whose low birth rate supposedly exemplified Asia’s hope of averting overpopulation.
So, how do you think that in a world without money, without the predatory instincts of man, exemplified in all the big governments, corporations around the world (E.U. U.S. India, China, Pakistan, ...) they would be able to feed their people ... do you think that in a world where resources are becoming increasingly scarce and agricultural yields around the globe are under stress (and without an abandoning of the current paradigm by all nations) grain will just be handed out for free, or one country will let half of its people die on behalf of another countries population? ASPO conference 2011 - Jeff Rubin: economic growth will increasingly become a zero-sum game.
Look at recent tensions flaring up between Turkey and Cyprus over oil. Turkey needs that oil because it needs the energy to sustain it's economic growth. but at the detriment of Cyprus - the same is applicable to food.
So, the biggest problem we face as a species are our number and our way of life. Growth will come down, there’ll be less consuming and producing, less extraction and exploitation of resources, all of this will leed to less incentives to hire people in turn leading to unemployment and excess population (at least seen from the perspective of the current economic paradigm)
And last but not least, something that will make you see things in a different perspective, an excert from “the secret of the black death” by Gary Carson: The disaster played a huge role in the rejuvination of Europe. And that’s the secret of the Black Death. Demographic collapses like this can be beneficial. “Mortality has its advantages,” according to The Plague, a great documentary from the History Channel. For example, if you want to improve wages for the lower class, one of the most direct ways to accomplish this is to kill of a third of them. This will drive up wages for the survivors and turn the social system on its head. Natural catastrophes are one of the main engines of historical transformations. In the final analysis, the Black Death was a good thing because it helped to destroy a corrupt, dead-end culture, facilitating the rebirth of Western Civilization.
Take you black plague and stick it up your medieval ass:
is EVERYONE on this thread as fucking stupid as you are?
"Making this transition will be very painfull, and the more we keep postponing, procrastinating, trying to live by the paradigm of perpetual economic growth, the harder the landing will be:
Gee Gosh... what a fucking insight... could this be all the more reason to start your own self-sufficient community now instead of when it will be too late? But you are so fucking stupid: you don't discuss this line of reasoning: because you're an idiot.full of BS.
get OUT of here.
"Again your idea of abandoning money and start going local is very admirable and eventually we will have to transition to a radically different, less complex, more local world. But first you should realize that the only way in which most of the 7billion people on this planet today can be fed and housed (well fed, a much lower number) is through a vast system that is staggeringly complex and interconnected, a system of global trade and money flows."
You fucking brain-dead imbecile: Starting my own self-sufficient community has nothing to do with what 7 billion idiots on this planet do. You think I'm trying to save 7 billion idiots from their own stupidity? I'm looking for the few rare intelligent individualist who want to do the OPPOSITE of what the 7 billion selfish assholes on this planet do. Starting your own self-sufficient community takes people who have some brains: not fucking jackasses like you.
Just for starters pioneers in intentional communities have exploded all your myths and lies about what it takes to support a small community... for instance: perma-culture farming has proven that over 200 people can be fed from less that 2 acres of cultivated soil. Shit... the entire city of New York was supplied by local farms within a radius of 15 miles for centuries before the insane shit called mass manufacturing and mass transport ruined their local farming economy. Self-sufficient housing, self-supporting communities have been springing up all over the world for the last 40 years. THOUSANDS of innovative new and better ways of farming, raising crops, living, etc have been invented, rediscovered and created.
Get OUT of here you imbecile.
"It's not just the federal reserve, it's companies like Monsanto who are making sure that the 7 billion people on this planet will find it increasingly difficult to sustain themselves locally. also look at European union or United States agricultural policies and subsidies."
You think MONSANTO is going to stop me from organizing and starting my own community? Get OUT of here!
" I'd like that too but the problem is that there are very big interest groups who stand to gain or lose these interest if the system is changed in any way that doesn't suit them.:"
"Suit them'??? SUIT THEM"????
I don't give a fuck if starting my own community doesn't fucking 'suit' anyone: you pea-brained imbecile. Are you terrified of imaginary goblins under your bed? You 're worried that starting your own community might not ;'suit' someone? You think there are "interest groups" in the world that expressly organized to stop anyone who starts their own community? WHAT 'interest groups' ? The ones only exist in your fucking HEAD? You are a fucking paranoid IDIOT . You're exactly the kind of terrified little mouse who will NEVER be accepted into a self-sufficient community because you are afraid of your fucking shadow.
Until we all enter a mature consideration of self understanding of reality itself , our individual patterns and conditions, and become responsible for our reactions and reacuring patterns we won't be able to transcend our egoic action (me me me iii self self self) to create a global cooperative forum based on prior unity of human kind.
not two is peace by Adi Da Samraj
Yes: but there is no 'WE' in your point you idiot: there are 7 billion idiots who have egos and they need to have the shit kicked out of them before they have their egos kicked out of them. Not everybody has a stupid ego that is selfish: some of us have an INTELLIGENT awareness of what is better and what is worse,
All egos are DISHONEST. Force people to be HONEST and their egos will disappear. You cannot be honest without courage: Only those who have the courage to be honest have no egos. And none of you have any courage and none of you9 have any honesty.
for a guy who's all for no ego's and forcing people ... you sure seem to bring a lot of impatience, intolerance (for those who are not "enlightened") and personal anger to the table. I don't think that anyone, especially on this forum, for showing at least the beginnings of a questioning mind, deserves to be called an idiot.
Oh and would you consider using less capitals?
I do not tolerate assholes and idiots. I have no patience with assholes and idiots and brainless freaks like you.
You actually think that the people who have responded to my post have shown "the beginnings of a questioning mind"! Jesus fucking Christ on a cross...
So far on this thread nobody has questioned any of their own illogical idiotic statements. Instead they have attempted to question the logical factual truths I tell them... and failed: and become 'insulted' because they cannot refute the logical truth I state. And rather than follow the logic of what I say: they leave. Why do they leave? Because they have EGO's, Because they don't give a fuck about the truth: all they care about is their fucking ego.
because? Because they AND you do not give one FUCK about what is true. You do not give one FUCK about questioning your own illogical stupidity.
What none of you realize is that the only time you can be insulted about anything is if what is said to you is TRUE. If what I say to you is NOT true: then you cannot be insulted. The very fact that you are insulted at being called an IDIOT, proves that you are indeed an idiot.
Go ahead: call me an idiot: call me anything you want to: I don't give a fuck what you call me. The only thing I care about is LOGIC INTELLIGENCE. If you have something intelligent to say: if you have an insight worth reading and following up on: I will respond to what you say: NOT to 'how ' you say it, or what you call me. None of you do that. Instead you get 'insulted'. Which is how all of you idiots destroy all meaningful dialogue and all logical discussion..
If any of you asses had the COURAGE to admit the logic of what I tell you: we could have a cooperative intelligent discussion about how to create a self-sufficient community without using money: Instead: all of you fucking assholes BEGIN: by discounting and disagreeing with what I say: That is NOT 'the beginnings of a questioning mind: that is a CLOSED MIND: you fucking IDIOT
I
"I do not tolerate assholes and idiots. I have no patience with assholes and idiots and brainless freaks like you."
you would have made a fine tool for the numerous utopian, new world order civilization, mass movements that saw millions of "other" people systematically targeted and murdered. I'm sure you would gladly do away with all those who are not on your side, who don't see thing exactly the way you do. They don't deserve your patience, your pity, right?
Well, just confirms my post. Why do I even take the trouble to reply. Because of my terrible terrible ego perhaps? Strange that on this kind of forum you feel compelled to take such an arrogant and condescending stance towards other ... oh wait, only towards ignorant idiots like me. And, I don't feel exactly insulted, not from people who resort to the excessive use of capitals to communicate - I do think that calling people stupid, close minded and idiots however is not really constructive. I'm not going to waste my time anymore in what for you seems like a personal vendetta, your personal, intolerant crusade to enforce your views. The real important things are happening out there, and they transcend your or my limited concepts of the world or anyone elses. To believe otherwise is just delusional and arrogant.
Maybe you should read Eric Hoffer's 'The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements' - you remind me somewhat of the fanatic, the radical Hoffer describes. It could help you find where some of that hatred, contempt and self-righteousness comes from. Read it please before it further corrodes what I'm sure is a beautiful, humane inside.
Anyway, I hope you have a good life and most of all, a happy and content one.
From the deepest desires often come the deadliest hate. ~Socrates
Wrong: total bullshit as usual: I am not enforcing my views upon anyone: I am explaining how you can create your own self-sufficient society so that NOBODY can enforce their views or authority or power or opinions upon you: apparently you LIKE being oppressed and controlled and manipulated by the global capitalist money system you live now rather than be a\n independent person with your own freedom and self-respect intact AND your own morals and ethics intact instead of selling your fucking soul for MONEY. Because you are an evil fucking nay-syar and a rationalizing bullshitter: You will come to no good END.
Another fucking ego being insulted: go fuck yourself
You say you are self employed and use Craiglist... Do you exchange your products/services for hugs and kisses, or do you ask for money? If the latter, why?
When you bought your computer, did the store you went to accept hugs and kisses in exchange for it? Or did you have to give them money before you could leave with it.
You have your concept of money all skewed. Money, in itself, is not evil. It is simply a tool, developed in one form or another, and independently in cultures around the world that moved past the stone age, as representative for the amount of goods and/or services provided to others so that they might more easily obtain goods and/or services from others they may not be able to barter with directly.
For example, if I want to get an IPod and the person selling it wants three bushels of wheat and a goat, but all I have is 6 bricks and two boards, we'd be unable to do business together. I'd have to find someone who wants bricks and boards for his goods/service, (perhaps someone who builds granaries and barns, who would then go to a farmer to get the wheat and goat to bring back to me, so I could take those to the IPod salesman and get my new gadget. But what if the farmer already has a granary and barn, and instead wants a couple of shirts? Then the builder has to go find a tailor who happens to want a granary and a barn in exchange for his shirts, (highly unlikely and leading to more of this chain of running around to get what the next person in line wants,) then find go to the farmer to exchange those for the grain and goat to bring back to me so I can trade it for the IPod.
Money is simply the tool society has come up with to facilitate trade between individuals by giving a common medium of exchange that society uses to obtain desired goods and services.
Are there those who hoard money in amounts they'll never be able to use? Of course, but then again, if one were unwilling to give out non-stop hugs and kisses, (to the detriment of producing any goods or providing any services,) he could be accused to hoarding that virtually unlimited commodity for his own selfish gain.
Somehow, given the level of anger and vitriol you've shown to pretty much everyone who's responded to your proposed economic concept, as well as your denigration of those who are physically unattractive and would be less likely to receive hugs and kisses from others as deserving to starve, (and sometimes, ugly just is and can't be remedied by diet or exercise,) I'm not seeing you as the type who gives out hugs and kisses, but instead only insults to anyone who dares to disagree with you or point out just how ridiculous your proposed economic model is.
You talked about living in a community, and imply that this community was totally self sustaining without any need of actual money. Really? They didn't get ANYTHING from outside this group using money? They mined their own metals and cut their own wood, and then fashioned those items into the tools needed to grow/hunt their own food and make their own clothing and shelter?
Somehow, I'm doubting it, which makes you nothing more than an angry hypocrite. In fact, that you're posting this strange concept that everything should essentially be free to all while consuming all manner of things that others spend long hours producing, (when they'd no doubt rather be doing something "fun",) so as to be able to afford the items needed to survive, (which are produced by still others who spend long hours producing instead of just having "fun",) makes you either a hypocrite, or one who doesn't understand what a viable economic system is to begin with.
Unfortunately, there are far too many people who are part of this movement who fail to understand that if everything were free, (or essentially so, since hugs and kisses have no real worth being as they are available in unlimited supply,) nothing would be produced to begin with. The ONLY things that are produced are things that currently have value attached to them, and thus cost money, which is why nobody is making high heels for horses or cummerbunds for cows.
Now, go ahead and tell me how stupid I am just like you have everyone else, but if you would, please let me know what it's like to be smarter than everyone else in the world. (THIS world, not the one with whatever color sky yours has.) LOL...
money only creates selfish asshole like you. There are BILLIONS of selfish idiots like you: with no love, no self-respect, no trust of others, no liking for themselves. What you will never realize is that there also billions of people who are NOT like you: people who do know what love and happiness and sharing are because they have experienced them. Trying to explain love to a deprived freak who has never been loved and does not know what love is, is a waste of time.
You have no imagination and no creativity: you are trying to imagine waht? You are not imagining anything: you are imagining the SAME EXACT loveless selfish greedy consumer society you live in without money... "
"Eeeeep! What? No money? freak OUT! freak OUT I need MONEY! we need MONEY MONEY MONEY: forget about love and hugs since I don't have had any and don't know what they are... Forget about fun and play since I never learned how to play and never learned how to have fun and I am addicted to the toys that I buy with money."
So you're not happy: you don't know what happiness is: you're miserable, bored and alone... so distract yourself from all inner questioning: NEVER ASK YOURSELF ANYTHING. Asl other people: they will sell you lies, which you will take as 'answers' and become even more empty and more boring than you are now... Do what you do best in life...which is NOTHING: remain the same paranoid terrified secretive freak you are now... enjoy the rest of your money: bye.
AOh... guess what... you can't hoard love. You can't accumulate hugs or kisses: you can only DESERVE to be hugged and kissed.... IF you are a decent honest people who helps other decent honetsy people: and you are not one of them... You expect EVERYONE to be accepted into this kind of special society...?
NOT
Little babies like you who expect to be GIVEN everything to them are definitely not the kind of people who will create their own communities. You think this is for everyone? That the whole world will be saved by this? NOT Only those who deserve to be accepted will be accepted into self-sufficient communities. .
Why not try your hugs and kisses here in Basilan? If you don't know where Basilan is, try reading the book by Gracia Burnham.
Why not try to live with living people instead of in your sick head?
welcome
Like the Wiki Occupy page on facebook
Wiki occupy
http://www.wikioccupy.org
NUMBER 1 RULE OF THE WORLD!
Anything advertised as "FUN" is a terrible nightmarish hell of an idea. (Remember that time you went to that "Fun" place you saw on that ad? Yeah, I still get nightmares too.)
NUMBER 2 RULE OF THE WORLD
Anytime a friend says, "No man, it will be fun" YOU ARE HEADING DOWN THE WRONG PATH! Detours are nice, but get back to the road before you are taking your friend to the hospital.
NUMBER 3 RULE OF THE WORLD!
Whenever a crazy person that is part of a protest and offers a new system to run the world and describes it as fun....Run....Just run.....Lot's of misery await down that path.
where do these nuts come from?
that is communism in it's purest form. so...It will only work in theory
wrong: now fuck off: you are a boring twit
Complete Book: "THE TAKING OF AMERICA, 1-2-3", 1985 THE TAKING OF AMERICA, 1-2-3. by Richard E. Sprague Richard E. Sprague 1976. Limited First Edition 1976. Revised Second Edition 1979. Updated Third ...
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ToA/ -
Complete Book: "THE TAKING OF AMERICA, 1-2-3", 1985 THE TAKING OF AMERICA, 1-2-3. by Richard E. Sprague Richard E. Sprague 1976. Limited First Edition 1976. Revised Second Edition 1979. Updated Third ...
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ToA/ -
good book... your thoughts on it??? ZERO your conclusions from reading it? ZERO Any opinions you care to share? ZERO Any ideas you have to share? ZERO You are why the american public is worse than a joke: they are a travesty.
http://occupytogether.spreadshirt.se/
Hmmm...
I guess it is best to focus on only limited numbers of specific goals, turak.
I read many posts on this forum. Solidarity of people in this kind of social movement is really important. But each person is in a different position in this society, and each person wants or believes a slightly different thing from one another.
So, the goal should be something that is simple and indubitably benefits everyone, something that no one say no to, despite of individual differences.
For instance, no tax loopholes.
Well, I know it is not me who should decide what is the goal of this movement, though. I will wait and see what the OccupyWallSt will become of.
totally illogical and WRONG. Small autonomous self-sufficient communities solve your problem. Your problem is trying to please a huge mass of people with different goals, or as you said : " each person wants or believes a slightly different thing from one another."... well you can fix this easily by creating your own SMALL communities where everyone has the same goals and wants the same hing. You cannot do this with millions of people!! But you CAN do it in a small community. For instance: once you create your own self-sufficient community and work together cooperating voluntarily withthe people in your community so all of you are as self-sufficient as possible by NOT USING MONEY....
You've solved all of your tax problems because:
NO1: Since you are now self-sufficient you will not be using ANY outside services and you will not be PAYING for them either.
NO2: Even if someone wanted to rob you or tax you they couldn't do it because you aren't using any money so they have nothing to rob you of: except the living=working-functioning community you have created for yourselves... and that is NOT TAXABLE and it cannot be robbed.
Are all the people who come here as fucking brainless and stupid as you are?
You haven't read my original post: it answers and solves all of your problems without all of you sleeping on the street like homeless bums expecting handouts from the greediest richest most selfish and most financially powerful assholes in the world:
Your logo should be: get RID of wall street: not occupy it. What are you doing except whining about how the swindlers of the world screwed you? Well... where were all of you when they were doing the screwing, EH? NOWHERE IN SIGHT: you ever hear of the phrase Too Little, Too Late??? Obama already gave the World Bank trillions of dollars secretly years ago... why weren't you there when that happened, eh? I was screaming about these thieves before Obama ever took office. You actually expect after they have gotten away with mass murder and assassination and dumping dead bodies in the ocean!... and mass theft;both legally and illegally, that NOW? they will turn around and even listen to you? You want to stop the financial corruption? Make all default credit swaps in the WORLD against the law and hold a moratorium on all foreclosures and return all houses back to their owners. The problem with that is in order to do this you will have to do it over the dead bodies of all the senators, congressmen and rich elite in America and you are NOT ready or prepared to do what is necessary: which is cleaning out this den of vipers.
I tell you the most practical way to solve all your problems and you turn a deaf ear to the only logical solution there is. Your cacophony of selfish special interests all demanding to be hear is phony kaka. Talk about unrealistic! Are any of you willing to die for your cause like the Libyans are? NO! One thing has been proven on this forum: Americans are the DUMBEST and I mean DUMBEST people on earth bar none. You spoiled babies actually expect a non violent revolution to take place where nobody will get hurt? Do you know how CRAZY that is? You are such abysmal cowards you're not even ready to prosecute the criminals and put them in jail for gods sake. When you file motions to put Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld on trial for treason and a thousand other crimes they are guilty of... THEN you will be on the right track of civil WAR. Fighting politically powerful people who are rich, trying to take away the money they stole from you is the STUPIDEST thing you could possibly do. If you're going to do it then DO it and make it fast and quick: but that will only put a dictator into power who is worse than what you have now.
Why are you so hostile to me or other people who you are talking with? If you want to establish a world where people value love, you should show your love and care for others. Those who you call "Crazy" or "Ignorant" are the people who you live with in the same community. How do you think you can make the world of hugs and kisses, if you cannot show any respects for others? If you think people do not know, then, try to teach them with love and respect. I am the one who mentioned about Cuba's medical system, remember? I know a lot about the community of hugs and kisses.
I am not hostile to people who are positive and support the desire for a better world.
You have many problems! You can't even digest written material properly! You have not even attempted to understand what I tell you: you only focus on the negative: you IGNORE the positive: as a result you are deaf to all the positive things I have said. You selectively IGNORE everything you don't want to hear, and everything you don't want to face and everything you don't want to know. You don't WANT to know the truth. The truth is often very ugly and very harsh... deal with it! Face it. Since you don't face the harsh realities of this world: you are not able to hold an intelligent conversation because you BLOCK OUT every valid point I make and refuse to discuss them or even LOOK at them. You want love and respect from strangers over the internet? Go to your mommy for that: not here. .
The point to creating your own community is SELECTIVITY. You want the BEST you can find: not the worst, not the laziest asshole on the internet, not Druggies and freaks.. You try to treat everyone as if they are intelligent educated decent people? 99% of them spit in your face and laugh at you because they are NOT intelligent and they are NOT educated and they are NOT mature. This is why in founding your own self-sufficient community you must be VERY picky and weed out anyone who will not fit into your community. I show love and care for people who DESERVE to be cared for and loved. The idea that everyone deserves to be loved and respected is total bullshit. Does Cheney deserve to be respected? NO! Do the bankers deserve to be respected? NO there are MILLIONS of people who do not deserve my respect. You cannot force people to learn ANYTHING they don't want to learn. I don't respect you BECAUSE YOU DO NOT RESPECT ME do you understand that? I tell you logical common sense solutions that will work and you IGNORE WHAT I TELL YOU. You want my respect? then respect what I say to you and listen to what I say and THINK BEFORE you open your immature little trap
I am not trying to establish a world where EVERYBODY values love because that is totally impossible, stupid and immature. Most people in this world do not even know what love IS and they don't WANT to know. I am telling people if they want to solve their problems they need to grow up and wake up to the logical hard facts of life. YOU choose to ignore everything I tell you. Well guess what: I choose to ignore everything YOU tell ME also. That is how fucking dysfunctional you are.
It is not like I ignore you. I just misunderstood you. If you are misunderstood, you can explain (only if you want, though.) We do not have supernatural senses or something like that to make it possible for us to fully understand each other without a conversation, don't we? Even if you talk with other people, you don't fully understand anyone. (Even with a nice conversation, I do not think it is possible to fully understand other people, though.)
About selectivity, I do not think you are wrong. At the same time, I do not think you are right.
One of the reasons for me to disagree with you about selectivity is: 20% of working ants are not working. If you get rid of this 20% of non-working ants, 20% of the remaining ants (the former 80%) will stop working. There is a some kind of natural laws that affect the behavior of living creatures. It seems like human is not an exception.
Well, enough about my opinion. I think each has his/her own opinion. So, I think the difference between us may not matter to both of us at all in any way. It may not matter even if we misunderstand each other.
But I want to know one thing. I will appreciate it if you will kindly answer to my question.
Are you one of the organizers of the OccupyWallSt?
ants? You speak about ants? You don't know any ants. You take stupid misinformation from web sites and believe everything you read on the internet.
One of your our basic problems is being unable to communicate. Another one of your basic problems is you have nothing to communicate.
Work on these two problems.
When you learn how to communicate...
Shut off your computer. Go shoeless and metal free for a week. Walk barefoot in nature for a month. Listen to Nature. Communicate with Nature. Learn from Nature. Listen and look around you and learn from everything around you.
. Ask yourself questions. Do not ask anyone else questions. Learn to ask and answer your own questions. Learn to think by yourself, for yourself without going onto this lemming machine called a computer.. After years of living... see if you have learned anything worthwhile
After many y ears... IF you live a life as an individual with a critical sense of pure wonder in which you have learned something which is worthwhile communicating, come back and we'll see if your..ideas are worth listening to or if they're a bunch of garbage copied from somewhere else.
turak,
You know? You are ruled out by your own standard.
And I can see any point to talk with you..because you are... I do not say that. I do not want to lose my dignity.
Larger things are going on and are about to happen. I have no time to waste.
Bye!
you said nothing. You have no dignity: you're an idiot trying to act like an ant
http://occupytogether.spreadshirt.se/
Without money how do you get enough resources together to build something big and necessary, like restoring the wetlands at the mouth of the Mississippi or an energy infrastructure that makes renewable energy work?
That is EASY... in fact that will be most of your work: restoring Nature: all the eco-systems that capitalist corporations have systematically destroying.
But before you do that: you have to educate the public! Once you educate them about the evils of capitalism and consumerism: they will opt OUT of the system. The only reason these huge international corporations are here is because you buy their crap! YOU the public are the engine which DRIVES all this corporate greed! Stop using money and all the evils of the system DIE! INSTANTLY! Without needing to fight them at all!! Do you understand? Solve the problem by going to the ROOT of the problem and the ROOT of your problem is the fact that money is the ROOT of all evil. Kill this one root and the whole system of evil dies!
loving money and using money are 2 different things (vastly). but your point is worth making -- it wouldn't really be that hard for the majority to make the economic clout of the minority irrelevant.
You are a common phenomenon on the internet: there are millions of imbeciles like you: all of them eager to let everyone in the world know just how brilliant and intelligent and educated and literate they .
There's only one problem.
You're not.
The other problem is you refuse to face this fact and stop trying to impress other people with fancy words.
The point is... you have no point.
Internet forums are clogged with millions and millions of pointless remarks that are just as pointless and meaningless and garbled as yours are.
Besides i really dont like anyone other than my significant other violating my personal space so wpuld rather keep the cash thanks
then you are an enemy of this movement; keep moving troll
Nope not a troll, just a guy who raises veggies for a living and do what i say and say what i do and tell it like it is, something lacking in todays society, Gadsden&Culpepper forever! Hua
Yes you are: you have no sense of community.. You are a product of your diseased culture: your religion is self-gratification and to hell with anyone else but you and whoever it is you are with. You are the opposite of the occupy wallstreet people. They are social people who get together and cooperate with each other and help each other. Because they are doing this intelligently, they have struck a nerve that has sparked hundreds of other demonstrations of solidarity round the the world: they are POWERFUL and fighting for something worthwhile: you are alone.
If you don't like anyone else: why are you even here? Bored? Lonely? want some company? You already said you don't like anyone: so fuck off and enjoy your solitude.
Wow, you my friend have some issues, hope you arent representative of a large cross section of the group
bye-bye have fun being all alone
If someone gave me a million dollars, i would be set! Yes id build a killer house, buy a nice suv, and stick the rest in my credit union in an array of cds
then go ahead and do it
goodbye
turak wrote: All of you are haggling about money.
Get rid of it.END-----
With an Article V convention, democracy will survive long enough to consider it. Otherwise, it and us are going under a virtual ogliarchic dictatorship.
We need an Article V convention.
Congress is very afraid of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_to_propose_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution "Congress acted preemptively to propose the amendments instead. At least four amendments (the Seventeenth, Twenty-First, Twenty-Second, and Twenty-Fifth Amendments) have been identified as being proposed by Congress at least partly in response to the threat of an Article V convention."
Our first right in our contract is Article V, the right to have congress convene delgates when 2/3 of the states have applied for an amendatory convention.
Article. V.
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.
Lots of facts here about Article V. http://algoxy.com/poly/article_v_convention.html
You're still laboring under the delusion that your Govt is a democracy. It never was and it never will be. Yo9ur Govt is your enemy. Until you realize this you will continue to be suckered and manipulated and used by politicians.
You're still laboring under the delusion that your Govt is a democracy. It never was and it never will be. Yo9ur Govt is your enemy. Until you realize this you will continue to be suckered and manipulated and used by politicians.
If it isn't a democracy, then the weapons will be needed. You've given up on all else if you are posting as you are.-----
Consider unity ready for violent rebellion can inspire democratic solution.
You ARE anidiot: you will not need weapons because you will not be threatening or attacking anybody: you will be minding your own business in your own community. In fact they won't even know you exist until its too late and there are thousands of self sufficient communities which refuse to buy their mass manufactured shit. Nobody will attack you because they will not have any reason do attack you: you've been watching way too many Hollywood movies.
No, I'm way behind. I see titles mentioned every now and then that remind me of a poster or bill board I'd seen, but forgot to see.-----
turak wrote: you will not be threatening or attacking anybody: you will be minding your own business in your own community.END-----
That will work okay after the collapse. Understanding reality before the collapse, can change the way it goes down.
It is logical that the nwo would resist understanding. They depend on some movies for misleading. Is that what you are doing?
wrong WRONG: it will work NOW waiting until the entire system has crashed is stupid Self-sufficiency is the wave of the future: Globalism and corporate robber capitalism is on the way OUT.
I am completely an advocate of Self-sufficiency and practice it as well as I can. What you are saying is correct, just not applicaple on the scale you attempt. I'm an advocate for local assmebly on that specific subject and how it is best done to limit impacts of the collapse of the "capitalist corporate robber". Rather than be against that only, I am mostly for existing agreements, limiting the scale issue, that might get issues dealt with.-----
I see people unconsciously controlled, each day having forgotten part of what they learned the day before. That is the critical part that keeps us pointed at the problem rather than the solution.----
Self-sufficiency is the solution, but that is a behavior, and changing those requires LOTS of reason IF behaviors are controlled unconsciously, and they largely are or can be.------
This is an underlying absolute no matter what is addressed in human society.
You lost me on that last one... absolute? what are you babbling about?
Self sufficiency can be practiced by any number of people on any scale.
The only thing it needs is intelligence... that is the REAL problem.
My point is simply that you are consciously communicating with people that are largly acting unconsciously. If they were surrounded with reason to change, they probably woulld given some time.-
The absolute is that all human behavior is largely controlled by the unconscious mind.-
Through an article V convention to amend, your ideas on self-sustainance can find proper audience. Examine this video with some impressions attending last September 25.
Article V conference at harvard-comments
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-7ikbvu0Y8
AH! Another mental midget who has discovered one tiny part of the truth and is squeaking about it to the detriment of all else.
YES! YES! you are correct!
people that ARE largely acting unconsciously they are also feeling thinking and reacting largely unconsciously on the level of a mindless mob!
Which is why coming together in angry mobs is the stupidest thing they could DO!~
The rest of your post is bunk. No corrupt system will change the unconscious condition of the du8mbed down masses. What is needed is to get RID of all mass forms of conformity AND power: this includes all large governments: not small ones! It is a matter of scale and size you doomfus: The smaller the group: the more intelligent they become! The most intelligent people are individualists: not conforming bleating sheep.
Which is why you9 should LISTEN and PAY ATTENTION to what I have to say and throw away your silly idiotic notions about fixing an unfixable corrupt system that is based upon money and power. GOT THAT?
If you CHOOSE to ignore what I have told you: I don't want to hear any more crap from you ever again: GOT THAT? I told you ONCE TWICE and now three times and that is the LIMIT of my patience for fools who refuse to listen.
You could be right that 235 years of what people thought was freedom might not matter at all. Perhaps it all depends on just how unconscious we all are.-----
The US constitution, the military, the states, the corporations may all just wind down to nothing and the only ones surviving are those sustaining themselves.-----
I would say the collective unconscious is sheparding the collective conscious to the point where it can give up the money, and just deal with the needs because it is more efficient and responsive to life. In that process the stuff people are made of is tested if that is what is happening. Maybe the whole batch is substandard and will just fail.
get lost mental bubbleheads living inside their own imaginary bubbles like you we do not need or want here
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You have to det rid of your addiction to mechanical toys and machines first: you need to get rid of your STUPID greed first: you need to get rid of your infantile selfishness first: once yiou grow up and stop acting like an infantile selfish little baby and realize that sharing is more fun than selfishness: you will not WANT to buy any of the crap these !5 sell you. How do you think they got so rich? They got rich by SELLING you junk you don't need and is not good for you. They suckered you into becoming supid selfish greedy CONSUMERS buying their mass manufactured goods: for penneys on the dollar. As long as all you want is their mass manufactured products: you will CONTINUE to remain their wage slave working and slaving your whole life away in order to afford these crap toys which makes them RICH and you POOR. Until you grow uop and realize that sharing, friendship and personal happiness is more important and better than isolated lonely children playing with their plastic toys: you will continue to be a SUCKER, You ill continue to be an envious, jealous, empty-headed idiot who will never find any happiness.
you don't need tools to live. I know you will never understand this fact because you have not been educated, but it doesn't matter... your generation is going down the tubes very quickly and will disappear and we will not have to listen to your ignorance any longer.
freaks like you focus on what you can't understand. What you do not understand is that you are not a human being: you have no human emotions: they were programmed out of you a LONG time ago... As a result: you are a mechanical humanoid toy: every time you encounter human emotion: this puzzles you. You don't know how to categorize human emotion so you just label it under a taboo label which is supposed to make it acceptable for you to ignore it. You have been brainwashed into the unspoken religious idea that no human being in the world has the right to experience any anger against anyone... Guess why they did this: you fucking simpleton. They did this because AFTER they steal all your MONEY... they wanted to be sure that you would have no human emotions and you would not get angry about being robbed and go after them, but instead, you would sit on your fat ass and do nothing: get it yet? you dumb fucking idiot.
[Deleted]
SO! You have identified yourself as the ENEMY of the 99% >>>>>
You are one of the 1%... the few people left who are still rich in america: and in your arrogant selfish smugness you come into your enemy's camp and expect to be received with welcoming arms... VERY stupid
I agree, this could be done, though I don't have any idea where we would start. We can't just start up a community from scratch. We would have to have skilled laborers willing to take on the necessary tasks needed to create and maintain such a community and teach others their skills. It would be a life long process. Smaller steps should be taken first. Problem is, money is involved in everything, how would you even get a parcel of land that would be needed to create this type of community without it? You certainly can't just live in a city and refuse to pay your bills. interesting idea, but we need to figure out how to do it.
horseshit: you can do it right now: what you are dithering about is the fact that you are terrified of doing ANYTHING AT ALL. You have been brainwashed into sitting in front of your toy called a computer all your young silly life... How do you think the 1% got rich so fast? They got rich by giving millions of you idiots TOYS to distract you from the political process as they stole all of your rights and all of your money while you sit on your ass surfing the web. The computer and the internet are weapons of MASS DISTRACTION: they have destroyed your life just as effectively as weapons of mass destruction can.
The fact of the matter is that you are a tiny DEPENDENT little child who has never held a job in its short little LIFE coming here pretending to be an adult. The occupy wall street movement is made up of responsible mature ADULTS: not little children like you. Why don't you confess how old you are? You immaturity is so obvious: anyone older than 20 years old can see .
You can start your self sufficient community NOW. You have NOTHING TO LOSE but your slavery to money, and you have EVERYTHING to gain from creating ayour own self-sufficient community. What you computer freaks hide behind is your IGNORANCE: every time somebody tells you something you arre much too immature to understand: you RUN AWAY AND HIDE. That is not how mature adults behave. The protesters occupying wallstreet ARE NOT HIDING BEHIND ANONYMITY LIKE YOU FUCKING COWARDS ARE: do you understand the difference? This is why you are NOT ONE OF US: So get lost. TAlking to babies like you is a waste of time.
horseshit: you can do it right now: what you are dithering about is the fact that you are terrified of doing ANYTHING AT ALL. You have been brainwashed into sitting in front of your toy called a computer all your young silly life... How do you think the 1% got rich so fast? They got rich by giving millions of you idiots TOYS to distract you from the political process as they stole all of your rights and all of your money while you sit on your ass surfing the web. The computer and the internet are weapons of MASS DISTRACTION: they have destroyed your life just as effectively as weapons of mass destruction can.
The fact of the matter is that you are a tiny DEPENDENT little child who has never held a job in its short little LIFE coming here pretending to be an adult. The occupy wall street movement is made up of responsible mature ADULTS: not little children like you. Why don't you confess how old you are? You immaturity is so obvious: anyone older than 20 years old can see .
You can start your self sufficient community NOW. You have NOTHING TO LOSE but your slavery to money, and you have EVERYTHING to gain from creating ayour own self-sufficient community. What you computer freaks hide behind is your IGNORANCE: every time somebody tells you something you arre much too immature to understand: you RUN AWAY AND HIDE. That is not how mature adults behave. The protesters occupying wallstreet ARE NOT HIDING BEHIND ANONYMITY LIKE YOU FUCKING COWARDS ARE: do you understand the difference? This is why you are NOT ONE OF US: So get lost. TAlking to babies like you is a waste of time.
discussing anything with you is obviously a waste of my time and this discussion will not continue any further until you can use a civil tone, people like you are exactly what this movement does not need. do your self a favor and bail out while you are ahead. it is obvious that you have nothing valuable to add to the conversation. you are ignorant and completely oblivious to the idea behind this movement. good day.
wrong: you are NOT part of this movement. You are NOT out on the streets with the protesters helping them> If you WERE you would understand that the only: the ONLY worthwhile thing they are achieving is a feeling of happiness, euphoria, solidarity, BELONGING to a community, SHARING, helping each other on a PERSONAL LEVEL OF VOLUNTARY COOPERATION WITHOUT USING MONEY and nothing else. All the media recognition will not get you or anyone else anything except more except more wrangling, more disagreements, more arguments, more bad feelings, more misunderstanding, more babbling idiots putting in their useless comments where they don't belong. Like you.
Wake up. It's already happening.
WRONG: WRONG WRONG: you can sart your own community NOW. It does not take a genius to know how to lift a shovel: it takes people who are willing to put effort into what they want to accomplish. You little babies have been so pampered and spoiled rotten: you think hat manual labor is only for slaves and poor people who are not like you. This is why you will never amount to anything. Why don't you admit you are a silly stupid ignorant child and not an adult? Only 6 yr old children have such an unrealistic understanding of the world as you do.
well, first let me just say, you are extremely rude and entirely unrealistic. You certainly can't assume to know who I am or what I know. I will have you know that I am certainly not spoiled, nor a child. I am a 36 year old mother of 10 who has lived on both sides of the economical coin I have been both homeless and well off materially. I have worked manual labor jobs since I was 14 years of age to support my family as has my husband. I also have a basic understanding of economics, supply and demand as well as a pretty good idea of what it takes to run a community. Sure any one can pick up a shovel, but how is the person who only knows how to shovel going to plant food and harvest it, raise livestock or build shelter? You have to consider basic human needs before you just run off half cocked thinking you can just change the way an entire society lives. I am completely realistic in the understanding that you need food, shelter, water and clothing. This isnt materialism, its basic human need. For you to reply with such a thwarting comment shows how unrealistic and childish you are. I certainly wouldn't give up food and shelter for me or my family to come shovel a ditch for you, how many other people do you think your going to convince to do that with your surly attitude? And again, I reassert my point that money is involved in everything. There will always be some form of payment required for services rendered. I think living in a society where productive members were rewarded with basic needs being met would be great, but it's entirely unrealistic at this point. You would have to reestablish the entire monetary system to create a barter and trade system rather than a marker system. Which from what I learned in basic elementary school, barter was replaced with markers to create easier transactions as well as a fairer more wide spread acceptable method for marking the value of an item. Like it or not, any way you look at it, all societies use and will continue to use "money" in whatever form you want to call it, food, material goods, oh, and in some cases, societies have even used people to determine the monetary value of an item, they were called slaves. Take a few more economic and history classes before you call me ignorant. As I said in my previous post, if you want to create a society that doesn't use money, you'll have to start a lot smaller than just running out and building a hippy commune. Change in institutions takes time, alot of time, probably more time than you and I will have in this life. You have to first change the way society thinks about it's institutions which is pretty much what this movement is all about. Oh, did I mention that I also have a sociology degree? well, that's just a little extra I wanted to add since you so snidely decided that I was completely ignorant of the subject to which I was responding to. I've never actually seen anyone try to debase a person that was agreeing with them, but, whatever.
The stuff about barter coming first you learned in elementary school was a lie; see: "Gift Economy: Refuting the Market Logic " http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jy4hFVcl6Vo
More about elementary school lies: "Lies My Teacher Told Me" http://sundown.afro.illinois.edu/
Or about Columbus: http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/zinncol1.html
Still, you are right about the need to change the mythology of wealth: http://www.conceptualguerilla.com/?q=node/402
There are at least four major types of economies that can all co-exist and interact: subsistence, gift, exchange, and planned. When social consensus breaks down, or when you get too much concentrated power, then you also get theft as a mode of survival. If you look into history and other cultures, you can find examples of each mode being dominant. Look at the Native American is the North West, for example, where gift giving was dominant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potlatch Or hunter/gatherers when group subsistence was dominant: http://www.primitivism.com/original-affluent.htm Or the Inca for a time as a planned economy: http://books.google.com/books?id=mKmu53cOrGsC&pg=PA18&lpg=PA18
But all real economies have a mix of all these things. In the USA, the easiest way forward might be to have a "basic income", or essentially social security for all, spent through the market system, with the justification being both as a human right ("freedom from want") and also as compensation for the enclosure of the land, for government created monopolies (including copyright), for pollution, and for nuclear war risk. See also: http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/change/science_market.html
And: http://www.basicincome.org/bien/aboutbasicincome.html
but you are ignorant. What you learned in elementary school was garbage; propaganda lies... You will not be working for me: you will be voluntarily cooperating with other people who are your EQUAL. No leaders period: get it? You are not out to change the entire corrupt capitalist system on earth which is what you are imagining in your mind. You are only creating your own community: no more and no less by voluntary cooperation between equals WITHOUT USING MONEY.
Money is NOT involved in everything. Money is not involved in love. Money is not involved in friendship. Money is not involved in having fun. Money is not involved in happiness. Money is not involved in self-respect and self-worth. Money is not involved in human trusting and intimacy and closeness. Money is an inhuman degrading form of dehumanized transactions empty of all human love respect, liking and fun. That is why you need to get rid of it. Hippy communes used money. They were not communities that worked for lots of reasons. Your self-sufficient community will WORK for all the reasons I explained to you. You have been hoodwinked and brainwashed about the4 necessity of using money as the only form of human exchange. Money is not human.. You don't need money. What you need are people you can trust and respect who will help you and vice versa. Do you understand? All your pre-suppositions and assumptions about what I am speaking of are misperceptions of what I actually say..
David Howell Petraeus offically annonced as Occupy Wall street Presidental Canidate.
The govt is your enemy: idiot. It is not your friend. Until you realize this you will continue to be a permanently bran damaged idiot.
Sure we all wish to live in the 18th century.
you poor ignorant person: money has been around for thousands of years
The real problem you poor deprived generation of consumer computer freaks have is that nobody ever taught you how to share anything with anyone. You and millions like you were raised and brainwashed in the RELIGION of selfishness and self-gratification and nothing else. To you and millions like you: the word sharing, and the idea of sharing is an alien concept. None of you know how to share anything with anybody. If you did... you would INSTANTLY realize and know that living without money and without selfishness and greed is a MUCH better way of living than the economic system you are now living in. Instead you are cynical and you sneer at everything that uis decent and good... This is no surprise because the crap propaganda TV and movie and commercial advertising you suck oned on all your life has been sneering at all decent honest human values,, morals and ethics and giving you false examples of how to live. The fact is: the only example you have how to live comes from the boob tube you have stared at all your life.
Even worse... you have been so badly brainwashed and mis-educated, that you can't organize lucid thoughts in your head, and you can't read a book: you were never taught logic and you were never taught how to write lucid. prose
[Deleted]
Wrong: Bolshevik totalitarian mass terrorism did not work: the masses woke up and refused to slave for their owners... Now capitalist terrorism is not working either and people are getting fed up working like slaves for the 1% who rob theme of all their money. The answer to your empty meaningless life is to learn how to become a human being. To do this: you need to learn how to TOUCH other people. Your isulated insane society has distanced all of you so far from each other and turned all of you into such paranoid terrified little cowardly mice: you no longer have any social skills. IN fact you do not know HOW to relate to another human being except through the exchange of pieces of paper for goods and services. This insane inhuman degrading dehumanizing practice now is the ONLY human interface you now have in your SHIT filled consumer crap craze of buying-selling to make a profit...: to make money. Self-sufficient communities which do not use money operate by voluntary mutual helping each other WITHOUT this mindless paper exchange. You are one of the stupidest idiots to come onto this thread... now you can leave and for the rest of your isolated insulated existence remain a mindless drone and work for your owners.
This is pathetic. I'm sorry but you need education. Good luck.
Money is nothing more than a marker to denote work done. It is how the baker pays the plumber when he doesn't need any more biscuits.
While I appreciate your altruism, there are many lazy people out there. Many greedy, lazy, damn near worthless people. Perhaps its just indicative of the society that spawned them, but nevertheless, your idea, while admirable, is not practical.
Yea but I can bury my money in the backyard and save it until tomatoes go on sale. What other medium allows us to so preserve, abbreviate, and store in such a minimized and tidy state than good old fashioned coin?
burying money in your backyard is exactly how the 1% got filthy rich. Hoarding money is greed. If people just cooperate then everyone will share what they have and nobody will be poor. All you need to do is get rid of your selfish hoarding. Try canning your tomatoes and saving them for a rainy day and sharing them with others who need it. This will give you much more happiness than hoarding your filthy money: in fact it is your money which makes you so miserable and so selfish
Actually hoarding is evolutionary. Its is intended to ensure that we survive the lean times. But just to cite some more recent historical examples: the Native Americans in the northeast would store corn as a winter reserve; even so in mid January they would intentionally fast for ten days as means of both genetically acclimating themselves and furthering their reserves. The colonial European was unable to do this; after four days he was delusional. And the Europeans also traded in fixed price commodities. The difficulty with this is that those commodities could neither be readily consumed, nor readily stored for long periods for the purchase or trade of other items - the harvest, for example, comes but once a year; the same is true of the fattened herd. And a ship bearing necessary items may not arrive for months.
wrong: go back to kindergarten: are all you children here after school because you have no friends to play with?
My only point is that geld is a condensed and storable commodity that is necessary to our very survival.
no it isn't
I told you you little freak: go back to kindergarten and don't come back here until you grow up
Well obviously I hit a nerve. Let me at that stash of yours.
why do you potheads come here? You are a scum on the earth: these decent people are fighting against people who have stolen the future of millions . You have nothing in common with them or me:
Hoarding is evolutionary.
zzzzz
It IS PRACTICAL you idiot, in fact it is more than practical because it will WEED OUT all the lazy slobs who are not willing to help others and not willing to help themselves either: this way there is JUSTICE for honest decent people, and JUSTICE for lowlifes who try to scam you. The freeloaders will be identified and ousted from all economic help VERY QUICKLY and good riddance to them... The ones who are HONEST and like to help other people and are GRATEFUL FOR ANY HELP: will find friends and make friends, and have a wonderful life because all of their newfound friends discover that you are honest: that you do what you say: that you do not lie or cheat or steal, and because of this: they will help you every chance they get because they too are honest and decent.
NOW.... HOWEVER... if YOU are not an honest decent person who like helping others and is grateful for any help you are given... you WILL NOT LIKE THIS SYSTEM AT ALL because you are NOT A TEAM PLAYER, you do not know how to cooperate with other people voluntarily of your own free will without being ordered about like a dumb SLAVE. IN the economic system of hugs and kisses, you will enjoy your life because you will not be doing anything you don't like to do and you will not be doing anything you don't want to do: you will not be working for money just to pay the bills because there will BE no money and there will BE no bills: just intelligent cooperation between equals: NO leaders: NO politicians NO police, NO armies
HOWEVER!~! If you are NOT intelligent, and if you do NOT like cooperating with intelligent people... then you will starve and die: This is called the law of the survival of the fittest: NOT the survival of the greediest lying chrating scum on earth
So, for instance, if I work at a saw mill creating lumber from trees... how do I turn that into food for my family? Or do we all just do what we like all the time? What about building roads? dams? geosynchronous communications satellites?
I'm not an idiot. But YOU are rude. Learn to deal with dissent, because with bullshit poorly planned pipedreams like this, you're gonna see a lot of it.
you won't be working at all. There will be no lumber mill, there will be no dams, no roads, no geosynchronous communications satellites because you will be living in your own self-sufficient community and you won't be needing any of that crap. You will be happy and healthy and helping only those people you like and respect and love and they will voluntarily return the compliment. Every idiotic question that is being asked of me has one basic flaw to it: you are assuming that everything that exists in your corrupt dysfunctional crumbling civilization will not change... when I tell you to create your own community: I am only speaking to those people who WANT change: not to imbeciles like you who cannot even IMAGINE any kind of change, which is why talking to you is a waste of time: goodbaye
What you're proposing is that we all go back to the goddamn trees and live like fucking monkeys. And as dumb as you are, you call that progress. Smoke another joint and chill the fuck out.
Look dipshit, what you're proposing is a commune. Its been done. It just isn't the way most people want to live. Get over yourself. If you can't figure out a way to get rid of the corrupting influences of money AND keep all of the technological progress, then I suggest going back to the drawing board.
I would ALSO point out that being a complete dickface to anyone who disagrees with you is a great way to turn people away from your ideas. So good luck with your little project. If anyone is an idiot in this conversation, it is you. Go fuck yourself.
You are the dipshit: dickface. Living communally without using money has never been done: get this through your fucking stupid retarded brain: IT HAS NEVER BEEN DONE: got that? Let me repeat it so it will sink into your stupid head: iti has never been done. Nobody has ever tried to live communally without using money; Now shut your dickface and go away. It is not a matter of disagreement you fucking retarded moron. It is a matter of ignorant idiots like you LYING THROUGH THEIR TEETH that I do not tolerate and will NEVER tolerate. Liars and idiots like you are not to be tolerated ANYWHERE on this earth: got that?
maybe you should all just shoot them Turak
shoot yourself. Liars and assholes always shoot themselves in the foot when they open their stupid lying mouths. Cowards like you who are too afraid to say anything always sit on the sidelines never involving themselves in Life. Little sniggering little shitholes like you are making their sniggering shit comments by the billions on the internet because they can hide behind anonymous handles. Try saying your shit to someone in person: see what happens to you.
aaaw, this is sad really, getting someone mad that easily, I'm sorry for posting.
I wish you no harm. If I could Turak, I'd give you a biiiiiig hug, I just know you need one. How about it folks, I think Turak needs to be smothered in brotherly love.
all the best!
This is sad, very heavy comments. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I think what we have to remember on this site is to realize that we all have very different point of views, obviously they will clash but let's keep it classy we are all in this movement together. Trolls are probably reading this and laughing because this is what they want. They don't want us to unite, they want us to fall apart, please people pull it together!
I haven't gotten mad during this entire thread go imagine somewhere else: you shit is not only pointless: it's desperately changing trying to out snob everyone else. That's all you turds do: and it is BOOORING, it's beyond stupid.
I thought I told you to go fuck yourself. You wanna attack anybody who doesn't wanna live in your little commune, well, I'm here to tell you that that sort of tactic will have you in a commune of ONE. Go live in the fucking woods by yourself. But I'd prefer to hang on to the advances of civilization. You wanna get pissed at me for having my own fucking opinion?? Seriously? You're an asshole. A real hardcore santorum filled asshole.
I didn't start off by screaming at you, I stated an opinion in my first post which you responded to with a shiteload of anger. You started with the attack rhetoric. YOU ARE A FUCKING DOUCHEBAG. And nobody is going to hang their future on a fucking douchebag.
Learn some fucking diplomacy you fucking child.
Okay:....
"YOU ARE A FUCKING DOUCHEBAG'
is that diplomatic enough for you?
Nope. Try again. This time with feeling.
How about if I told you to go fuck yourself... will that do?
Or you could just talk to me about how you think that this would work, instead of insulting me. I'm a pretty reasonable guy when I'm not being prodded.
Getting people to give up technology doesn't seem like a very easy task. How do you propose to do that?
My original response to your idea was a genuine one, but I'm not a closed-minded person.
Convince me.
By your total silence I assume that I was not 'diplomatic' enough to suit you... Let me tell you something, you and the other 400 people who have run away from the truth when it is told to them:... Diplomacy is the practice of professional liars lying to each other.... I DO NOT LIE.... I am not a liar. Truth is not diplomatic. You have a choice: continue to allow yourself to be lied to 'diplomatically' or face the fucking truth. Honesty is not a consumer product which you can sell or buy; it is not something you can choose between. The truth is the fucking truth. Running away from the truth exposes you as a coward. I despise cowards. Am I being diplo-fucking-matic enough for you yet?.
Truth cannot be bought or sold. It can only be sought after and discovered
Therein lies one of your many problem: it's your mindset to begin with. You have been so brainwashed by living inside a commercial system that you actually believe the only way anyone can discover the truth is by being sold on something.
Now... if you were not a brainwashed consumer who sits ion their ass waiting for someone to 'sell' them something,... If you were a person who actually searches for the truth and wants to find the truth: your own positive energy would instantly harmonize you to the logic of what I am telling you.
Instead you want to have your cake and you want to eat it too. Sorry: can't do that. Nobody can. You want to preserve all of the corrupt systems which you have become accustomed to while drastically changing your society for the better.
What you have not discovered yet, and I suspect this is something you will never discover because you do not wish to discover it... is that all of the technological gizmos you love so much are actually bad for you: not good for you.
For instance take the great religious institutions of Science which hide in secrecy behind closed doors and are supposed to be blindly worshiped because they are not supposed to be commercial ventures for profit but for the benefit of all mankind... if you still believe THAT: then I have an island I would like to buy from you for a few beads, and you will gladly hand me over the deed to Manhattan, but I digress...
The great holy revered, worshiped, history of science is thousands of years old: let's take just one great discover of the last century... Scientists... beginning with Einstein and ending with Oppenheimer... discovered a way to destroy the entire earth easily... huzzah! Ring the bells of human intelligence! Let the banners fly and the voices sing! The great fucking scientists have sold you on the idea of nuclear bombs! Not only that: the insane ape called the human sap: has been manufacturing these wonderful advances of knowledge and wisdom by the hundreds and thousands so now we can all rest assured that any time the human sap wants to... he can push a button and detroy the entire earth many times over! Isn't this wonderful? All this destructive 'power' MUST be respected and worshiped and bowed down to and feared and NEVER questioned as to the wisdom and intelligence of these fucking insane things who actually dreamed up this unspeakable device... We must all worship this fucking asshole called Einstein as the greatest genius of the Age! Now we can commit instant mass suicide at the push of a button and we don't have to notify anyone and the entire human species can be wiped out whether it wants to or not! Ahhh... the wonderful wisdom of scientists. You would gasp in outrage at the very idea of ever getting rid of these motherf- er... we mustn't be impolite when speaking of these dirtty- er things who gave us the nuclear atomic bomb. Oh, now what was I talking about? Oh yes...
So since I am not trying to sell you a fucking thing: you'll just have to sit there pissed off for the rest of your life because nobody is solving your problems for you and selling the solutions and ideas to you: okay?
Right now you can get hugs and kisses for money.
No you can't asshole: you try to get a hug from me and I will tell you to go fuck yourself. You try to get a hug from any wallstreet banker and they will call the cops on you. You try to get a hug from any for-profit wage slave and they will push you away and kick you where you live.
Learn this: touching is not sex. Sexual pornography is one basic disease of your consumer self-gratification culture
angry communist?
Can you read? : you try to get a hug from me and I will tell you to go fuck yourself. You try to get a hug from any wallstreet banker and they will call the cops on you. You try to get a hug from any for-profit wage slave and they will push you away and kick you where you live.
Learn this: touching is not sex. Sexual pornography is one basic disease of your consumer self-gratification culture
"consumer self gratification culture" All human existence is self gratification. That is how living things are built. There is none holier than any other.
wrong: that is your brainwashing talking
goodbye little idiot
Wiki Occupy Wall Street
http://www.wikioccupywallst.org
United We Stand ! Let's Build it Together ! Yes we are Us . . .
yes! Build your own communities without wallstreet! Without money! Cooperation all round. Decent people helping decent people; spreading goodwil and sharing their lives with each other. This is what the people on wall street are LEARNING is working. Tear down the walls of greed and selfishness and you will have your community that you always wanted... NOT by e-mail... NOT using computers: personal contact, social togetherness the REVERSE of the computer generation, the OPPOSITE of what they have been selling you.
Wiki Occupy Wall Street
http://www.wikioccupywallst.org
United We Stand ! Let's Build it Together ! Yes we are Us . . .
assholes like you are too boring to answer
Support Freedom and Liberty Everywhere
http;//www.wikioccupy.org
Start where you LIVE first: otherwise you are a hypocrite. Create your own democratic community: now DOit and stop talking about it to strangers hundreds of miles away from where you live
My name is ' Ewe and Eye ', nice to meet you. i am Ewe and I am Eye, you are you and I am I , you may refer to me as Ewe and Eye.
We are One .
http://www.wikioccupy.org
You're a female goat: a female goat is an ewe. Goats are one of the stupidest most selfish domesticated animals on earth.
troll
Hugs and Kisses? Can I get mine in handjobs and blowjobs?
you can get it right next to where you usually buy your drugs
That would be your house
I don't have a house: get lost you're an asshole
You don't have a house? No wonder you are protesting with OWS.
you're the one who is lost. You don't belong here. You are the ENEMY of all the people protesting against the 1%.
Thank you for identifying yourself as a hostile enemy of the OW movement:.
By-Bye little freak
You don't wanna give me a hug and a kiss? How dare you take my currency away just because you got upset. Come here little one. Give me a hug.
Rule No 1 of the Self-Sufficiency Movement: decent people never hug asshole who are not accepted into their community.
Goodbye.
Oh.... OHHHH!!! You think you will be ACCEPTED into a self-sufficient commuinnity without question!! OHHHH! You think you can get a free RIDE on other people's backs! OHHHH! Well little asshole: you can do it in the corrupt money system by being a cheat and a liar and a swindler... but you can't do it in a self-sufficient community: which is why you don't like the idea... too bad eh?
Actually I love the idea of self-sufficiency. You pay for your and your family's education, housing, food, shelter, clothing and health care, and I will pay for mine.
Self-sufficiency. Can't disagree with that.
wrong asshole: you will NEVER be accepted into ANY self-sufficient community with that attitude; get lost you are disgustingly obviously an enemy of this movement. 1% of the population having all the money whole everyone else works to support themis NOT self sufficiency: it is greedy scumbags like you living off the backs of honest decent people like me
Yep, you sure sound decent. . . . Why don't you just create your own self sufficient community, then you won't have to worry about rich people on your back. Jim Jones, anyone?
Why don't you create your own? This way we won't have to hear from you anymore.
"1% of the population having all the money whole everyone else works to support themis NOT self sufficiency"
I don't think this is a complete sentence.
you don't think because you don't have a complete brain: get lost freak
Oww shit another tree hugging fuckin hippie... I like hippies. I pays to be positive.
I am not a hippy: you are a druggie
No...I'm the farthest from a druggie that you could ever imagine. However I find inspiration in your courage to confront me. Thanks
you're a coward, a paranoid freak. You are so paranoid... you are TERRIFIED of telling anyone over an ANONYMOUS outlet any personal information about yourself. You live in a shit sty of fear and paranoid secrecy and lies.
Do you have any idea of how fucking SICK that is?
You claim not to be a druggie... so what ARE you then? if you are NOT a druggie?..... SILENCE.... FEAR.... PARANOIA??
No: you are a liar caught in his own lies who cannot come up with any plausible lie to cover for the fact that you are a druggie.
ordinary decent people have no problem telling other people their occupation and background because it is this what bonds people together: sharing the truth about themselves honestly.
Druggies like you: your sick twisted sort: do the OPPOSITE of that... you hide like rats in the shadows: never daring to tell other people who you are or what you do...
Well guess what? By your own sickness you shall live a life of isolated paranoid delusions. By not sharing yourself with other decent people: you are ostracizing yourself from all decent society and good riddance to freaks like you.
Confront?.... CONFRONT???
you use that word on a fucking internet forum???
courage? COURAGE??
you use that word on an internet form??
get lost
The ruse is up brother you are an apostle of anarchy luring in your victims. Your post was a guise and anyone with any sense would realize that your one creepy person. Predator Alert!!! If you are preaching peace and can't handle one vole comment. Pretty much self explanatory. Don't get dragged in by this one!!!
I have to agree. I made a pretty reasonable post simply pointing out it's best to work towards the closest goals, and then branch out. And you spazzed out on me and posted a particularly insulting reply. Sorry, but you lost all the credibility you had with me. Go somewhere else, we aren't interested in your schizophrenic ideas.
I am not preaching: you fucking moron: I am telling you how you can fix all the problems you are having now living in a society that values money and property more than it does human life. If you can't understand that go fuck yourself.
you're a troll get lost
You're on the right track. Maybe not with the hugs&kisses but an alternate store of value for use in trade transactions, if it were to become widespread, would get the attention of the 1%. It's also what American colonists did that made the British react... culminating in the first American Revolution. Instead of dismissing this idea, we should be thinking of ways to make this possible.
You're a total fucking imbecile: now get your ass somewhere else
lol... i see by your other posts that you are a confrontational douchebag. your belligerent comments are quite amusing. keep it up!
I see by your comment that you do not involve yourself in LIFE:: stay sitting on your ass until they come to repossess your home douchbag
This may be ideal, but here is the real solution, one based on knowledge, not the herd. Follow your intuition, that is where real knowledge lies. Not behind me, or behind the government, or media, but behind the people who have come to grips with it and have written about it in history. The best predictor for the future is the past. Remember all the Great Empires, and remember that not one of them hasnt had its time with political strife. http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-key-to-success-knowledge/
This all reminds me of the Hippies, Love and Peace. I watched a video that stated I should give my property away. But I can't figure who they want me to give it to. On another forum here Was to forgive student loans, now that is another stupid demand.
no it is not stupid; most progressive countries have free education. IN a self-sufficient community you do not give anything away: you POOL your resources into a common fund which is used for the betterment of the community as a whole. By pooling your resources your living costs go down by a factor of over ten. This idea has nothing to do with drugged up hippies; it is creating an ELITE community which is healthier, BETTER, more free, more independent and happier than any other community on EARTH. It is not running away from society: it is running TOWARDS a better life by changing the ROOT morals and ethics of your social code. Freaks with amnesia cannot remember anything: civilization correctly labeled greed and gambling and avarice as the deadliest sins of all for ten thousand years. Greed is evil. Until all of you admit this: you will corrupt yourselves into rot.
It would be so nice if it worked in the real world.
Your right. In the real world the free education are abused by those connected. In third world "developing countries", the children that are benefiting from the free education provided by the government, are the children of high ranking civil servants. The children of low ranking civil servants are assigned to lesser section that are overpopulated with student to teacher ratio of 80:1. Top government sponsored schools are filled with rich and privileged children.
Actually there is no any point these new creatures "OWS" have !
money is an arbitrary value indicator. if you based it on hugs and kisses, they would become money and have a certain value. i think you are missing a big point on how economics work.
There is a difference between the value oif human love and a piece of paper called MONEY: if you do not understand this basic difference then go fuck yourself because you are stupid FOREVER AND EVER
well if you said LOVE was the currency, then of course that's different! but you said hugs and kisses, which are physical acts that don't necessarily need love. But I guess we need some way of measuring that love, so i can concede that point.
But the problem here is that some of us have vast supplies of Ecstasy stashed away, and because of this we would be able to produce vast quantities of the new money. Would that make us the 1% then?
And what about those with depression? or germaphobes? would i have to give up hugs and kisses of my own to help them, in a form of wealth distribution?
there are clearly lots of issues to work out here, but i guess i'm willing to help figure this one out.
You cannot measure love you dumb fucking thing. Where do they get nonhumans like you? Out of Chrysler's production plant? You are the perfect example of how stupid humans become when they start using machines and thinking like machines. Your generation of computer freaks are the dumbest, most nonhuman bunch of worthless slobs ever born.
you were the one that suggested a means of measuring love. but lets be honest, all this "change in economic systems" will not cure your self-hatred. i'm sorry that you don't feel like you have enough love in your life, but you never will until you learn to stop hating yourself.
wrong: asshole
Sharing is not measuring. When you hug someone you do not measure the hug, nor can you accumulate it. A hug is only a hug if it is MUTUAL: neither person is getting any advantage over the other. Now go back into your hermetically sealed jar and screw the lid down very tight and stay there until you die of boredom.
i hope that you find love, and someone willing to hug you. i am sorry that this plagues you so much and that you feel so alone. i feel for you. if you let go of the self-hatred and seek to be kind and positive, you will stop scaring people away, and one day someone will finally love you and hug you.
You are the one who need a hug. Sitting alone, isolated staring at your machine all day,: all of you freaks, screaming out your deprivation and projecting it out are a boring waste of time here.
Try to understand something. I am a professional massage therapist: do not try to feel your fake imaginary pity for me: it is you that needs help. It is you who needs to learn how to touch people. You are so mentally and spiritually sick and twisted: you actually believe a human being that tries to create a community based upon hugs and kisses is what? You don't see your own insanity; do you? All of you are running away from yourselves as fast as you can. Look at yourself and at what you say.
You can hug and kiss anyone you want to... that is if they let you: If you discover that nobody likes you and nobody wants to hug or kiss you: then you will starve to death... hopefully soon.
then i guess i'm rich and can have anything I want! I like the new system.
wrong: you will not be rich because you will have no money to be rich with: how old are you: three?
i do not need money to be rich, i need higs and kisses. and i will have way more hugs and kisses than most, probably in the top 1% of everyone who gets hugs and kisses. stop being so jealous of those with more than you! i will even let you have some of my hugs and kisses, because i don't think i can use all mine.
you cannot accumulate hugs and kisses like you do money. Selfish greedy people like you will not be given any hugs and kisses by any person who live in a self-sufficient community: they will be thrown out of the community and they will starve to death and that will be the end of you.
doubtful. everyone will want to hug and kiss me for sure. people will be lining up to give me things, just so they can hug and kiss me. so i will never have to work and can get anything i want. i will even have too many things, and will likely have to redistribute things to others, just to get rid of them. this feels like being rich to me. it's also a pretty good summary of what has happened any time i've tried to live in such a society, like in black rock city.
then go and live in your fantasy and don't bother us bye-bye
the hug and kiss system was your fantasy, not mine. if you didn't want to discuss it's implications, then why would you be participating in an open forum to talk about it? you make no sense.
but i get ridiculous amounts of hugs and kisses everyday. you were the one proposing an economic system based on them. you seem to lack any real intellectual capabilities. i think this is because of mental problems, and i hope that you seek help for this in the medical community.
It is you who make no sense: I am speaking of the most PRACTICAL sensible logical way to solve all your problems.
You on the other hand are so fucking brainless: you perceive practicality as fantasy and fantasy as practicality: IN other words: your perceptions have been REVERSED. You perceive the light of day to be black and the black of night to be white: Which is why I am not interested in wasting my time with such a fried-brain as you happen to be.
hugs and kisses are not fantasies... you poor deprived fucking moron: they are the love and happiness younever experienced: Millions of people love and hug and kiss each other every day: the sad fact is that you don't.
bye-bye moron
Only serious solutions need apply.
you are incapable; of being serious: the only serious person who desrves recognition on this forum are the ones who are willing to DO it. Talk is worthless: all your shit babble is meaningless without ACTION
Is that you,... talking? Did you write the kick off of this thread? Hope it and your subsequent ranting didn't take too much time from your doing. Hmmm...Maybe a U-tube video of you in superhero action..... there, there. Mom will be here soon.
you are looking for a savior and you will get what you deserve: you like being lied to and you like scoffing at obvious facts and truths which cannot be opposed or denied.
the only human beings who are capable of judging anyone else: are the ones who have CRITICALLY JUDGED THEMSELVES FIRST: which you have not and will never do. Every single fucking idiot like you who tries to find fault with someone else because they are pointing OUT the obvious vices and sins they have is practicing DENIAL OF THEIR OWN GUILT: this tactic us called PROJECTING YOUR OWN FAULTS ONTO THE ONE ACCUSING YOU OF THESE FAULTS.
Until you take a LONG HARD LOOK at YOURSELF FIRST...: you do not have the capacity and perception to see ANYONE ELSE EXCEPT YOURSELF in everyone you look at.
Imbeiles like you are why the human species is so screwed up: you actually EXPECT!!! someone ELSE to GIVE you the ANSWER to YOUR problems... and not only that: you expect to fix it FOR YOU!!! While you sit back and criticize how they are solving YOUR problems for you.... this arrogant smugness: this idiocy of you disgusting spoiled shitheads is so unbelievable,yet it is a fact: millions and millions of you units being baby fed and your asses wiped from birth to death... actually think you are on top of the pyramid of society: when you are in actual fact: the LOWEST of the LOW. LOWER than all the billions of human beings who have never even seen a computer.
This is the huge great LIE you suckers have been sold on: You have been convinced by advertisers that IF you go out and buy a computer and link up to the shit internet... you somehow become an elite bunch of assholes who are 'exclusive' in their intelligence, education and wisdom.
The actual fact is that you are the most IGNORANT generation of consumer babies ever born and the stupidest and most illiterate and mentally deficient humans ever born on earth... as millions and millions of you go arou9nd on the internet hiding behind anonymous secrecy... pretending to be what you are NOT.
When will you understand that the machines of mass distraction have \been sold to you by the 1% super rich so you will not bother them while they rob you blind? NEVER. because you are much too fucking arrogant and smug to EVER admit you have been suckered BIG TIME.... You are a consumer SUCKER: as Steve jobs said: "It's not the job of consumers to decide what they want: we decide what they want to buy FOR them... and they buy into our bullshit EVERY TIME."
When is the last time anyone said, "Your arguments as so clear, concise and logical that you have changed my mind. Now I agree with you."? Oh! Well, let me know when it happens.
negative assholes who only spew their negative comments here are NOT WELCOME HERE
You are a CONFORMIST ASSHOLE SHEEP
You want to follow da CROWDS??? New self-sufficient communities are NOT for little dweebs like YOU. They will NEVER be for people like you.
THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THIS: WHAT I SAY IS TRUE
ANYONE WHO HAS A BRAIN and has the courage and honesty to admit the truth sees every single UNDENIABLE INCONTROVERTIBLE LOGICAL TRUTH I HAVE POSTED HERE CANNOT BE REFUTED.
The point is you fucking shit stinking filth:
NOBODY on this thread has managed to find ONE SINGLE REASON OR EXCUSE why a self-sufficient community that does ot use money will not WORK.
SINCE ALL OF YOU FUCKING NAYSAYERS have FAILED TO FIND ANY WAY TO DISCREDIT OR DISCOUNT HE LOGIC OF MY IDEA AND PLAN...
NOW!!! the LAST GASP!!! of your fucking NEGATIVE ENVIOUS SHIT is whining and demanding that BEFORE!! anyone of you fucking little conformist sheep DARES to join a self-sufficient community that WORKS WONDERS... there FIRST has to be SOMEBODY ELSE!! who joins this movement BEFORE ANY OF YOU DO!!
In other words: all of you shitheads have NO way of determining ANYTHING if it is good or bad except the BLIND FOLLOWING OF OTHER SHEEP.... you have to see it on NBC first! you have to see MILLIONS OF OTHER PEOPLE FALLING INTO LINE before any of YOU Assholes decide to join ANYTHING or do ANYTHING!
YOU farts are EXACTLY what self-sufficient communities will NEVER accept into their ranks. They will NEVER allow any of you INTO their elite communities... got that?
The shoe will be on the other FOOT. You will be BEGGING to join a self-sufficient community and you will be REJECTED because NONE OF YOU HAVE THE HUMAN FORTITUDE AND HUMAN POTENTIAL AND HUMAN QUALITIES OF DECENCY AND HONESTY AND COURAGE THAT IT TAKES TO BE A MEMBER OF THE BEST COMMUNITIES ON EARTH... got that you little fucker?
When it happens AND IT WILL HAPPEN...: you will be OUT IN THE COLD; and you will NOT BE ALLOWED IN. Theen you cana sit in your fucking isolatioin SHIT for the rest of your stinking isolated LIFE and ENVY the people who had the guts and earned the GLORY of being a MEMBER of self-sufficient communities while the rest of your civilized crap profiti money society falls down into RUBBLE.
Bye.
Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way OUT.
Your kind is on the way OUT
trolls are not welcome here begone
Funny story -- but this type of nonsensical thinking is actually the key in small societies. Think tribes. Things MUST be done for free and for the notion that someone else will do their job.
This is the part that appeals to our notion of fairness. It's a natural state for the human animal.
But, in large society this no longer works.
large societies are not communities you idiot: humans are designed to function in small communities: large masses of people are MOBS: they are brainless inanse masses without any intelligence: like you for instance
I have no idea why you decided to insult me here.
I stated exactly what you stated -- almost verbatim -- and then you proceed to say I'm without intelligence? Very odd choice of attack tactic, Turak.
I'm going to put forth the proposition that I'm far more intelligent than you and far more educated. Further, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I'm probably your physical superior as well.
So, when you have a minute, please get off whatever horse you rode in on and chill.
I didn't insult you. You ARE an idiot: that's the plain truth. What you did was try to insult my intelligence by trying to denigrate the idea of creating your own self-sufficient communities which do not use money. You did not insult me: you just insulted the intelligence of billions of people who live in communities all over the world. I was speaking for them. Do you understand yet? No? That only goes to prove my point even more.
@Turak,
Actually, I didn't "denigrate" your solution. I thought your original post was facetious and I was trying to say that when living in a small community that this type of system is the only one that works.
I was further explaining that as that community grows, it becomes less efficient and becomes an anchor.
But, you can continue to insult someone that actually agrees with you. Play on, playa' ... whatever floats your goat.
You fucking moron: being facetious is denigration:
You again?
If you read carefully - you'll see that I misunderstood the intention of your original post. I thought you were being a jerk and poking fun at the extreme-left that has popped up here on OWS.
So, my response should be read as such.
I am not poking fun at anyone: although it is very easy to poke fun at everyone for you to call my posts nonsensical thinking is still denigration
It is nonsensical when applied to a vast society of millions of people. It breaks down.
Step 1 in trying to exchange ideas with someone you disagree with is to agree with them. I assumed you were of the mindset that a systme like the one described was stupid and you were making fun on the liberals that buy into it. So, I agreed with the mindset of the intent in which I took the original post.
Then I went on to explain that it wasn't as nonsensical as some people make it out to be. And that in small societies it is actually more efficient than any other system.
What you have failed to understand and failed to realize is that there should be nothing BUT small societies. The present condition of humans overpopulating the world and jamming themselves into cities is not only unnatural and destructive: it is not how humans are designed to function and live.
What IS nonsensical is the existence of millions of human idiots all packed together in cities, trying to ignore each others existence as much as possible. That is not how you were designed to live. Until you study the basic anthropology and pre-history of the walking ape: all the sub-species of walking apes who lived for millions of years and were forced out of Africa, you will not understand the dynamics of your present situation in any historical perspective that is sane and is in all larger context which makes sense.
The fact is all you armchair idiots are not educated. None of you have done your homework. None of you are even interested in the necessary homework you need to do before you become educated enough to be able to grasp and understand why your world is so fucked up right now.
The internet has destroyed human knowledge: it has blasted human knowledge into trillions of meaningless unconnected bits more effectively and destructively than a nuclear bomb. It has flooded the world with zillions of false data called misinformation and disinformation and trivia. It has made you incapable of discerning the few nuggets of truth and fact from the tons of bullshit that is created every day and added to this ever-accumulating pile of useless crap.
See if you can study the entire history of the human race over a time-line of 8 million years and see if you can make any sense of it... See if you can throw out all the bullshit and uncover the hidden facts and truths of our ancestors... Our genetic makeup has not changed since we left Africa: we are still a species of naked apes who were designed to live naked... not clothed, not living in heated dwellings, not using fire to warm our butts. You can't even swallow THAT fact: let alone all the other inconvenient facts you don't want to know.
Again, read my original post. I stated directly that small societies is the natural state of the human animal.
You continue to get riled up and insult people for not doing homework or for other things without actually listening.
stop focusing on your fucking insulted ego and focus on what I say to you or go away.
You did:> you said and I quote: "Funny story -- but this type of nonsensical thinking " You think the idea of small communitiesis FUNNY?? You think the idea of small communities is NONENSICAL? And then you turn around and say you did not denigrate the ideas I put forth???
You are the biggest bullshit arrogant, lying, two-faced egotistical macho pig asshole I have encountered yet on this forum.
Do you have any conception how many small working communities there are in the world today? Have you ever lived in a small community? Do you know anything at all about small communities? You come here and try to lecture ME about small communities? Stick it up your ASS.
If I am the biggest "all that stuff" that you've encountered on this forum then I would assume you haven't encountered many people.
Again, I thought your initial post was facetious in nature. So, the funny story part was to insult the facetious nature. Then, I was saying that while many people espouse this line of thinking on here for how the entire US runs, this idea does not work in aggregate. However, I went on to say that it does work in small communities.
Anyhow, it was a misunderstanding and even if it weren't -- you need to chill, bro. You're nothing special and that attitude gets nothing but a terse reply.
stick it up your ass: my idea is the only practical solution which can and will fix all of these people's problems: assholes like you trying to denigrate the truth that money is the root of all evil are not worth my time.
Turak,
You are either a troll or just an angry individual.
You seem to be baiting for a fight whether I agree with you or disagree with you. Further, your tone could really use some work.
I can assure you - face to face, your tone would be far different. I ask you again, please relax and refrain from being offensive. It does nothing for this cause, your stance or my mood (which I may be biased on).
You don't want me to be 'angry'? Then ANSWER MY POSTS: ignoring what I tell you only pisses me off MORE you asshole.
SECONDLY: the reason your entire occupy wallstreet movement will not work is that you have taken all human emotion OUT of it. You american brainwashed idiots are fucking AMAZINGLY STUPID!! The Libyans fought the Kadafi troops because they were not as emotionally emasculated as YOU are... You actually believe that you can have a peaceful nonviolent revolution without any ANGER!??? You are fucking out of your ever-lovin GOURD. You want everyone to be polite and lovey-dovey? You want people to LOVE their enemies and turn the cheek? So they can be stepped on again and again?
Without human EMOTION which INCLUDES ANGER: your movement would have NO people on the street AT ALL. So shut your STUPID bleating little mouth. Emotionally DEAD people like you do not even BELONG here! Get LOST.
I will indulge you one final time, just because I found your final post (that I am unable to respond to) as quite humorous.
I am the 1%. I want to feel the way I feel, because that's how I chose to live. I am not pent up and full of suppressed rage because I am logical and do not believe that emotion leads to critical thinking.
I'd much rather bask in the joys I find in life than dwell on the negativity. Unless I have something constructive to offer, I find that incessant ranting does nothing except derail the conversation.
You espouse that you're "ALIVE". Good for you. I am glad you feel that way. All I ask is that you don't apply for a gun permit, you put down the caffeine and realize that every person is a unique individual. Putting everyone under your filter is a fool's task.
So, I say to you again:
Good day, sir.
EVERYONE! this person is an avowed admitted member of the 1%... do you understand? All of the sabotage going on on this forum is being committed by your enemiesban this prck and get RID of him.
Kadafi was killed today: you're next
Good day, sir.
And good RIDDANCE:
You dead things are disgustingly NOT HUMAN are you ALIVE?... the answer is NO!
WHY are you not alive?
Because you HAVE NO HUMAN EMOTIONS You are EMOTIONALLY DEAD
That is your SICKNESS
Once you realize you are sick: you will have the difficult PAINFUL odyssey of RE-discovering your own humanity by getting in TOUCH with all your suppressed, repressed, detached human EMOTIONS...
When you do THAT....
You will discover the lost ANGER you have inside you... you will discover the lost PASSION inside you: and you will no longer be a dead bloodless fool who says "Good day, sir"
You think that by having no human emotions you are showing some kind of fucking superiority? That is exactly what the 1% WANT you to feel.... NOTHING... so they can rob you BLIND and you will never get ANGRY about it:... got that? You fucking MORON.
Having no human emotions is a form of the sickest INHUMANITY THERE IS!! That's how the NAZI's managed to turn millions of people into NUMBERS so they could massacre them! Do you understand THAT? you fucking idiot? Turning a human being into a NUMBER is the ROOT EVIL of all MONEY you fucking imbecile.
this is an infantile ideological anti capitalism meme detached from reality, systems theory, game theory, or logic. While it makes sense to attempt to evolve in directions that would make money obsolete ,we can't just get rid of money, thats shallow two dimensional infantile ignorant BS thinking and making such arguments only proves you have no idea what you are talking about.
https://www.facebook.com/OccupySB#!/note.php?note_id=10150399526600833
John Bassist which is it? social movement? or anti capitalism troll cult? You seem to have already unfortunately made up your mind. I don't hang time with trolls people get the idea somehow that i'm one of them... you know... the whole bit about being careful about what your freinds say about you.
3 hours ago · Like
Lorenzo Segarra
John chill out here bro,we are all on the same team. Its clear that there are some communication issues here. I think its clear the kill money project isn't something you've taken the time out to understand, so please let's clear the air. E...See More
2 hours ago · Like
John Bassist
"ohn chill out here bro,we are all on the same team. Its clear that there are some communication issues here. I think its clear the kill money project isn't something you've taken the time out to understand," Nor am i going to take any tim...See More
about an hour ago · Like
Andre Burrell No point. Bassist = Paranoid troll with mental issues :-\
I've dealt with him in the Shit's Got to Go group and he's the same way. Just repeats the same thing with no particular reasoning as to why he believes what he does. Just a troll with a fake profile :-\
20 minutes ago · Like
John Bassist i love that its so obvious who the real trolls are. The trolls are the people with no solutions, who are proposing and promulgating social violence, while they merely attack and demean corporatism. I'm the problem solver, and that makes the "kill" meme and you people trolling with it my problem. Andre just another fine example of trapped matrix mind. Projecting your collective shadow at me instead of seeing the simple truth; which is in this case that "kill money" is a wrecklessly infantile meme, which alienates more people than it convinces and which operates in actuality to absolve you of any REAL RESPONSIBILITY , prevent you or anyone from doing the actual work, a stupid, irresponsible and patently evil meme which in essence allows you to define only the social violence you intend to do and double think that your not doing. I'm the lucid, I have the real solutions, but your going to draw on and swipe and slash at me; because your a bunch of brain dead "kill money" zombies instead of participants in any kind of real social movement, or social evoluitionary event. Your giving the capitalist the black pawns they need to scare their sheeple stupid and dupe them; your only serving the "socialism" fear machine. Your just GIVING the elites the villains they need to make it seem like its either their way or debased anarchistic immoral unethical insanity. "kill" who do you think that turns on aside from people already convinced money is a problem? Get real. Grow up.
9 minutes ago · Like
John Bassist Accusing me of having mental issues. What a bunch of evil bastards TZM is. When you can't handle the truth you attack somebodies sanity. Who are the real trolls? excuse me?
9 minutes ago · Like
John Bassist and my profile is completely real. name one thing not real about it.
8 minutes ago · Like
John Bassist Andre Burrel = sleepwalking TZM cult zombie; out trolling against the truth and anybody who knows whats real and calling us the trolls when deep down inside you all know he is. Your all playing a stupid evil secret unsecret game. You know darn well i'm the one with the truth and the light and the real information. but you'd rather be on the moral high ground and have your evil cult club than facilitate real social evolution- because TZMers are universally afraid of WORK. And thats all "kill money " is- a means to the end of defining the problem so that its all crime and no sweat. Violence. violence which you SAY you don't REALLY mean.. but which you carry out- every day- against the truth- and people like me bothering to tell it. Put down your swords and step away from human extinction. "Kill money" is just one more path to everybody dies. Not a transition plan.
5 minutes ago · Like
John Bassist A transition plan means we USE money, We EVOLVE money, We TRANSCEND money. "Kill" does not enter into that. noway. nohow. ever.
4 minutes ago · Like
It is you who are INFANTILE: your idea that something cannot be done is INFANTILE to the MAX
It is MONEY that is 2-dimensional
Living human beings are THREE-DIMENSIONIAL ORGANIC ORGANSIMS
Money is a 2-dimensional DEAD PIECE OF PAPER
get your stupid ass off this thread: I do not tolerate fools gladly.
Actually Money is 3-dimensional also
actually it is not
now go stick your ass somewhere else: actually
Actually it is. When I pick up my money, it has a front, a back, and sides....3 dimensions.
wrong
Wrong??.... Hold on while I check my hundred dollar bills...................................................................... ............................................................................. Nah, I wasn't wrong. They are three-dimensional.
too stupid for words: symbols are 2-dimensional: the paper they are printed on is not money: the symbols are... if paper was money then Office Depot would be the richest company ini the world you dumb fuck
Which symbols on the paper are the money symbols? I want to know so I can use those symbols at the grocery store.
All of them are, they're printed on special paper: try copying them and they will arrest you for counterfeiting because you are an obvious fake. Which is why nobody wants to know you.
Goodbye.
turak......That's some kind of computer game right?
you are a computer game: or haven't you noticed? You're permanently detached from reality
whats stupid and infantile is failing to understand the systmic neccesity of USING money to EVOLVE away from it. Its not possible to actually get rid of money, that is infantile, it is irrational, and it is insane. its anarchy, not a solution, and it proves only radical ignorance.
I'm not going anywhere. Your thread is insane, and i will confront stupid evil insane BS wherever i find it.
Giving your NEGATIVE Energy to something only GIVES your (-) time and Energy to it. (duh)
So I'm curious John. What solutions are you presenting?" The list is nearly endless. Geothermal power, localization of economics, permaculture, self sufficient community.. I have real solutions. Most relevant to THIS discussion lets talk about PHRASING things in an ADULT and LUCID manner instead of just becoming anti capitalism trolls. " Any movements you're a part of that you agree with in ideology, or are you just here to criticize actual movements?" I agree with the general direction of tzm. I'm just sick and tired of all the stupid and evil and stupid and evil which tzm keeps heaping on to make my job of saving the humans far more difficult.
"Instead, I have you talking smack about the killmoney perspective," perspective? now your trolling lingo is a whole perspective? " calling it violent and saying other absurd things." there is nothing absurd about pointing out that kill money is a violent and anti science and anti intellectual meme. " John, you should know me by now, I don't believe in violence, " then preach solutions, not violence. "I just believe in the death of an age old notion, that actually proves to be most violent idea outside of WMD's." great, and i agree with that in principle which is exactly why i'd like to not have all my allies making us all look like frigging 13 year olds who can't tell the difference between violence and real world problem solving process. " So stop the sillyness john, " you stop the sillyness. please. "there are better ways you can go about any differences you have with my ppoints of view" i have run this lame meme over and over and over and ever again with tzmers. i have been nice, i have been kind, i have been diplomatic. You all don't listen, and you keep in essence taking us down the road towards doom. I'd like to have REAL allies, not stupid anticapitalists making us all look bad with punk azz moron propaganda which any ADULT wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.
John Bassist again with the "kill" meme. sigh.
22 hours ago · Like
Andre Burrell John Bassist = paranoid troll.
21 hours ago · Like · 2 people
John Bassist bull. I'm no kind of troll. the "kill" meme is stupid and evil.
10 hours ago · Like
John Bassist thats the problem with tzmers. They have only violence and stupid rhetoric based in violence- not one whit of sophistication or depth or real solutions... just more death and evil to add to the problem.
10 hours ago · Like
John Bassist and THEN they want to make it everybody elses fault and problem, and diabolize everyone else... when they are the ones running stupid and evil.
10 hours ago · Like
John Bassist
"kill money". 90 percent of the food people eat on this planet is attached to 9 pounds of fuel for every pound of food. if you just kill money, the food distribution network fails and then everyone DIES. Killing money is not a solution, it...See More
9 hours ago · Like
John Bassist Thats NOT a TRANSITION PLAN, its an adolescent ego trip
9 hours ago · Like
Andre Burrell See what I mean?
:)
you're a freak: go away Boring ranting freak swho make no rational sense are not tolerated here: humans are 3dimensional living creatures: money is an ABSTRACT 2-dimensional FLAT piece of paper with abstract 2-dimensional symbols on it. Money is DEAD. Human beings are ALIVE
until your drugged out brain understands this basic simple obvious fact: you are not welcome here
i ain't leaving. i'm not boring. i am not a freak. what make sno rational sense is "get rid of money." thats a poetic and infantile meme detached from reality. money may be abstract but it is the system we have and merely duming that system instantly is not a solution- it would cause more problems than we have by two or three scalars. you are the one whos got a drugged out bong rip of an idea here. I am the one whos sober and lucid and whos proposing REAL evolutionary solutions instead of stipid insane mindless nonsense.
FACT. I am VERY welcome here, MOST of the people who have been here a while both respect and admire me and i am an upstanding member of this internet community in good standing.
if the system doesn't work: get rid of the system... do you have a mnetal block to common sense? Apparently you do. If something doesn't work: get rid of it. If someone doesn't work: fire them... Capitalist bosses do this all the time... Try doing it yourself, that is IF you have a brain to pissin: which apparently you do not.
getting rid of the system has systemic consequences including human extinction. evolving the system is SANE. getting rid of the system is insane.
you are the one who has a mental block to common sense. If an airplane computer doesn't work right and you "fire" the plane in mid air, people die.
obviously, you are the one whos not got a brain here.
I am replacing the dysfunctional system with self-sufficient communities. That is not an evolution that is a REPLACEMENT: that is the REVERSE of what is being done now. The opposite of global capitalistic greed in which 1% of the world's people have all the money while 7 billion starve is REPLACED by small self-sufficient communities that do not rely on trade or barter or money to live happy healthy lives. It's already been done before: in fact it is being done today all over the world. You America will be the LAST place it will catch on: because your nation is the greediest most selfish nation on earth... with the greediest, most selfish, stupidest, laziest, most spoiled rotten people on earth.
sounds great. again the devil is in the details. your details are nutty so far.
wrong: 100% REVERSAL OF TRUTH: you are an evil negative piece of shit There are no details: all there is is the truth those people who are positive and intelligent will act upon the truth negative imbecile like you will not act. "Just sayin' doesn't make it so' Saying no does not mean it will not be done: it just means you refuse to do it. There are billions of negative idiots like you.
totally lame... you actually believe that if the present system is discarded... that 7 BILLION human beings will suddenly vanish form the earth leaving no surviving offspring? Please: it is not even funny. There are BILLIONS of humans on this earth who have never even SEEN a computer: they will be doing just fine as you go into withdrawal symptoms because you can't suck on your distraction devices anymore. As you your idiotic analogy which is bullshit: the answer is simple: don't use jet planes: use the legs you were given to walk. Obviously you have no brain. You MUST have been fired for incompetence right?
whats totally lame is some idiot who does not understand systems or game theory proposing to in essence kill a system which is the only thing keeping them and pretty much everyone else alive. Suddenly? depends on how you mean that. If you mean over night, no. If you mean that we will all die and that this will be the last human generation if we don't stop and do this the right way- absolutely.
there are 4 billion people on this planet with 10 pounds of fuel attached to every pound of food. Whats bullshit is idiots like you who don't understand basic cause and effect.
my analogy is spot on. if you kill a system upon which 4 billion people rely upon in order to survive you are in essence killing 4 billion people - the long hard cannabal human eat human dog eat dog and everyone otherwise starves to death way.
obviously you have the mental retardation problem- not me.
I am multiply competent in ways you clearly can't even imagine.
goodbye freak have fun inside you bubble-game fantasy
then go where you are liked: asshole: or do you enjoy social rejection?
You don't kill money: you effing ant head. You have less intelligence than an ant. Money is paper. Money is metal: money is already dead. You can't kill something that was never alive to begin with. Living without money is not killing money. You have killing on the brain. You're a nut job.
save the math the 99% can't understand
This is an infantilization of the issue. Economy is a natural extension of the economic and creative universe. Economy is how we express the transmission of natural resource and energy. The economy is real and can be employed on behalf of increasing the productive and creative powers of people. This is the issue we are working on. Not economy expressed in a primitive barter system and not "hugs and kisses". Although, hugs and kisses can'y hurt.
you are mentally, morally, emotionally, spiritually deficient: you have never been loved and never been hugged and never experienced being treated as a human being. A human society based upon touching is not a barter system. You cannot barter for a kiss or a hug> hugs and kisses can only be given voluntarily and cannot be faked. If anyone tries to fake loving, fake respect, fake hugging, fake trust: they are quickly found out and ejected from the community. Since you do not know what it means to touch another human being: I suggest you go and have a good cry for all the love you were never given and all the empty days of your life you never touched anyone... oops: you are emotionally dead inside: you have never cried or felt a human emotion: in fact you are so dead inside you don't know what it means to be alive. You are one of the billions of dead mechanical souls now being manufactured and spewed out into human society
In Cuba, men and women can receive education to become doctors for free. Everyone, including you, Americans (foreigners) can get the same medical care for free. Cardiac Operation is free. Cuba's infant mortality rate is lower than that of the US. The US based on EBM（Evidence Based Medicine）and Cuba is based on NBM（Narrative Based Medicine）. Cuba's law says "there should be no one who cannot receive medical care." The income of doctors in Cuba is no more than the average income of their country, but they are happily doing their job for their love for their community. Cuba is sending out their doctors to the third countries to help people suffer from extreme poverty that has been created by the 1%. Cuba is gaining a high reputation in the international community. I think It is possible to create an economy based upon hugs&kisses. But paper-printed-money may make it easier to keep things under control. It all depends on how we use the economy system to realize a better life for all.
Good for you! You have the obvious proof in front of your nose... that a country which has been systematically economically downtrodden d boycotted by the richest most powerful country in the world... has a social system and social culture that is SUPERIOR SUPERIOR SUPERIOR to any ANY culture and ANY society in the USA this is the joke that everyone who has traveled and lived in more than one country knows: the USA is only superior in ONE respect... MONEY... in every OTHER repect: Americans are INFERIOR and their culture and society is INFERIOR to all the other countries in the world.
This is the twisted misperception of people who have been brainwashed to believe that MONEY is more important than ANYTHING ELSE in life... including life itself. The only people who are attracted to the USA are the GREEDIEST most spiritually EMPTY assholes in the world. Only mono-cultural idiots who have never traveled and never lived outside the USA believe that their country is superior to others. Once they travel and live elsewhere... they come back to a COMPLETELY different perspective on the USA: and they end up living disgusted by what is all around them, because they KNOW by personal experience that there indeed IS something BETTER, and it is not in the USA
NOW... since you KNOW it is possible: DO IT. Don't wait for someone else to do it: YOU do it... Or else... you will NEVER live any better than you are living now: in fact you will live worse. Self-sufficient communities can only use SELF-STARTERS: people who START things: not people who want to 'join' an already active community. Self-sufficient communities would never ACCEPT you unless you have the initiative, and the guts and the energy and the vision to start one yourself. Instead of sitting on the sidelines watching your life leak away: you need to become positive.
Hi turak, I think you already know I am not an American. I am a Japanese. Japan is, like the US, based on Capitalism. As children, in capitalism we all are forced to be on a meaningless race and taught how to get ahead of others to be "a winner." As a result of how we are brought up, we only know the values of Capitalism. This is why those who oppose the OccupyWallSt say "You lazy people get what you deserve." without knowing that they are choking their own necks by saying so. I think the protesters and the people who discuss with you here already know about outside of the US and concept of values other than that of capitalism. I guess their point is that the printed-paper-money is useful to keep things under control for a better life for all. Self-starter, yes. I do not know how I should start, turak. I wish I could be a doctor and tell my patients "I need no money." But..I think I will start by writing here or on twitter/my blog about other countries and concept of values different from our own. (Oh, I've started teaching piano/guitar/bread making to children for free. There are not so many things that I can do, but better than doing nothing, eh? Handing down our knowledge and skills to next generation should never be a tool to make profits for those who teach. This should be true even at the level of the individual. I think there are many people who already do as I do. I hope more people will start teaching something to children for free. Grass-root movements to change the concept of values.)
It is very true. When everyone has what they need Fresh food, pure water, a living environment and healthy relationships they will do worthwhile things freely without any need for money and refuse to take destructive actions.
Support our petition: http://www.petitiononline.com/SoLMag/petition.html
Occupy your motherland
That is a good idea... but you're asking the wrong people to help you. You are living in a delusional framework. You actually believe that the United Nations and Prince Charles are your friends: they are your mortal enemies. Build your self sufficient communities WITHOUT asking for help from anyone. Just do it.
That is a good idea... but you're asking the wrong people to help you. You are living in a delusional framework. You actually believe that the United Nations and Prince Charles are your friends: they are your mortal enemies. Build your self sufficient communities WITHOUT asking for help from anyone. Just do it.
We cannot go back. You have to have a sustainable society. We use money to barter, nothing wrong with that. We need to put ethics behind the need to make money--that's the key.
wrong: money is GREED: you ARE going back... into the death of existing like a dead MACHINE without ANY human LOVE without ANY human CONTACT
IN a society based upon human TOUCHINGS EACH OTHER: all your filthy greed and dead objects exchanged for pieces of paper will not EXIST: and good riddance to you.
how do you propose to get rid of greed in this money-less utopia..??
if anything has value, some folks will want more than they need, which is the definition of greed.
the definition of greed is MONEY: without money you cannot have greed: You have a choice: do you want to be respected, trusted, and loved... do you want to have fun and have many many friends? Do you want to be actively involved with other happy healthy people??
Or do you just want some pieces of paper called money?
You can't have both. Get this through your fucking dead head: YOU CAN'T HAVE BOTH> either love respect, trust, involvement, social community, touching, hugging, kissing, dancing, joy, laughter, happiness, health...
or money and NOTHING ELSE
Now... IF you choose happiness, health, activity social activities! being with people, playing sports, playing active games, having FUN, having respect, having trust, having love, friendship, cooperation! independence, freedom! no boss! no money! no work!...
you will NOT want any money and you will NOT be GREEDY for any money because there will not BE any money and even if there was: you would PUKE on it and throw it AWAY because those pieces of paper do not make you happy: they do not make you healthy; they do NOTHING FOR OYU AT ALL except force to into a money system which rewards only 1% of society with MONEY... Do you think the 1% are happy? do you think they are healthy??? Cheney has already had 3 heart operations... if it weren't for the mechanical valves in his rotten guts: he would be dead as a DOORNAIL. These people called the 1% are NOT HAPPY PEOPLE. Get this through your head: chasing after money does NOTHING for oyu.
Extremists do not help us.
I am not an extremist: I am telling you that you are fighting over money: you are going in the wrong direction: fighting over money only makes you more selfish than the 1% already are> wasting all of your cooperative goodwill and energy over fighting against the super-rich by sleeping on the streets in front of their banks will only cause social chaos because they will not give you one CENT of their stolen wealth back to you. Taking that money by force makes you one of THEM: money grubbers are not the answer to your social problems: your entire civilization is irretrievably corrupt. If you place all of your good positive energy into creating your own self-sufficient communities... which you can easily do: you wiull not NEED their filthy moeny... and what's more you will have the satisfaction of seeing all of the super-rich CRUMBLE INTO DUST in front of your eyes as you ostracize them from YO(UR society.
You don't get it: all of you wannabe affluent people wannabe with the RICHEST PEOPLE ON EARTH: well: they will let you INTO heir elite club: so create your OWN society and tell them to go to hell.
If you did this: you could fix all of your social problems. All of you have this mental block: all of you assume that you cannot create your own culture and your own society to suit yourselves: all of you religiously believe that you can't even LIVE without living off the Govt and the corporations of the world.
Well I've got news for you... you can.. and you can do it a million times better than the one you're living in right now. The society you're in right no CANNOT BE FIXED.
What is MORE crucial for you to understand is that money fixes NOTHING. If you want an object lesson in the futility of throwing money at a social human problem: look at Haiti... Billioins of dollars were thrown at that social mess> and what was the result?... the result is that things are now even WORSE than they were before they threw all that free money at the Haitians. Being whining welfare state babies will NOT solve your problems. NOBODY will solve your problems for you. ALL of you need to become SELF-SUFFICIENT by cooperating intelligently with each other WITHOUT USING MONEY. This is already HAPPENING on the streets of New York as I speak. Many MANY people are coming by and helping the protesters freely WITHOUT ANY MONEY PASSING HANDS: because of this money-free economy... these people are finding out they are HAPPIER living on the fucking STREET! without money than they were living in their expensive houses BEFORE they were evicted and had their houses repossessed by the banks.
Idiotic, you just want an excuse to be a slacker and not do your civic part. Even if it looks hopeless, do it anyway.
that is the OPPOSITE of the truth: it is YOU who are the slacker
It is I who have the ENERGY AND WILL to start a self sufficient commuinity which does not use money and does not need money to life a useful meaningful learning growing changing evolving life.
There IS no 'civic' part you imbecile: there are only individuals with individuals moral consciences and guilty consciences rationalizing their evil sins.
Giving your allegiance to a nation was disproved in 2 world wars when millions of brainwashed idiots went and killed each other just so Rothschild and his cronies could get richer.
The allegiance you must give is to living organisms: you must give your allegiance to LIFE: not death: not dead metal, not dead dollars. Living in a self-sufficient community forces you to deal with LIFE because your nanny state which you suck off: the rich corporations and the rich govts are not there to wipe your ass for you. THEN you will learn that what you do in your community will come BACK in your face, and you will not be able to run away from the truth like you always do on this shit stinking anonymous magnet for freaks and cowards called the internet
The trouble with fucking trolls like you is your complete dishonesty and your fucking stinking COWARDICE: always running AWAY from the truth after it has been rammed down your fucking throat.
The problem with assholes like you is that you do not have a pot to piss in: you cannot refute or disprove a single one of my posts because what I am telling you is the logical organic truth: and truth does NOT lie. Truth can be PROVEN.
Freaks who babble idiocy and run away are in the MILLIONS on the internet: you are one of them: you are called TROLLS.
How did the OWS movement not get sent out from the park yet? The system worked. Sometimes it does.
The OW movement began because thesystem is not working you IMBECILE
The system has never worked. Ya mook.
first you said the system worked Now you say the system has never worked goodbye
The whole system doesn't work, parts of it occasionally work.
gee... maybe if I keep you after class for remedial English studies I might be able to teach you to write an entire paragraph that makes sense. Sorry: I don't have that kind of time. I said GOODBYE.
If you are female, not underage and really pretty, then I am all for your world based on hugs & kisses.
love is not sex: this is one of the basic brainwashing jobs all of you poor lonely freaks have been programmed into. Your paranoia of not wanting to touch anything that is alive is why you are so abysmally sick. The reason your whole society is sick is because you do not touch anyone ever. The reason you are insane is because you have not experienced your own skin and your body is DESENSITIZED to the MAX. You are the new robot/human/android unit: 90% mechanical functioning: 10% biological functioning.
None of you will ever grow up enough to even have a human relationship with another human being..
Who said anything about sex, I just wanted a hug and a kiss, why so violent and judgmental ; ) Gotcha.
touching is not a homophobic activity; it is not sexual
Your society is sick: you are too
When you admit this: come back.
republicans vote yes on jobs bill
They are communist revolutionarys
who is they?
Organizers
organizers for WHAT? democracy? Food stamps? Tiddly winks? crapola? Puffed rice? hello... anyone home?
For OWS
wrong goodbye
Wow. Socialism. Except you forget one thing. Human greed. There will always be a free rider that breaks the system.
Wrong: 100% wrong. The point is simple, but you are much too dead to understand. Money creates greed, Greed does not create money. Living in a society which has no money automatically removes the existence of greed simply because there is no vehicle to use or express this spiritual sickness. You are like all the other boring, stupid, empty-headed imbeciles who react like Pavlovian dogs with your stupid negative comments without seriously looking at the obvious positive reality of such an economic system.
there are billions of idiots who say 'no' without thinking because you have no brain of your own. Saying 'no' is the stupidest thing you can do. Doing nothing is the stupidest thing you can do. And all of you do exactly that: nothing.
Actually, I believe in proposing real policy change. Like ending foreign aid. Ending farm subsidies that offset each other. Reducing the number of military bases around the world. Reducing nuclear weapon stockpiles. REAL POLICY.
What you are arguing is socialism. Please read, "The Communist Manifesto" by Karl Marx.
Greed is about power; not money. Money is one way to gain power. Get rid of money. Okay. We go back to the bartering system. You say everyone lives in a world where everyone helps everyone. Okay. What happens when one person refuses to help others, but asks others to help them? It's called the free-rider problem in political science. Look it up.
wrong: no barter. Self-sufficiency. What you ignorant people do not understand is that robber baron capitalists have been systematically destroying your communities for over 500 years.
The destruction of the community and the family and all social centers and activities that are community-based have been slowly eroded and done away with by your commercial for-profit malls and businesses and now your huge international corporations.
WalMart destroyed the smalltown communities and small businesses of middle America. Suburbs destroyed the communities of the inner city and the small towns. The growth of huge megalopolis cities like New York and Los Angeles also destroyed your small communities. TV's destroyed the communal life of the American Family. Now the internet is destroying what is left of personal family bonds. Cell phones and text messaging gadgets have destroyed personal socializing and personal contact on a mass level. Your churches have disappeared. Religious people now watch their favorite religious preacher on TV instead of attending any church where personal relationships can be built. Your entire culture and society has become an insane mass of isolated people staring at flat screens alone isolated in their homes and apartments. The occupy wallstreet movement is only good insofar as it brings people together on a personal contact level of equality. NOT through any internet medium. The posts on this thread expose just how fucking stupid, illiterate, uneducated, brainwashed, ignorant, illogical, irrational, paranoid and ignorant you computer freaks actually are.
None of you are even capable of personal contact with another human being. Getting rid of money will also get rid of freaks like you and your computers, and that is a good thing.
Reads like a bad Michener novel without the redeeming social value.
you are an ignorant spoiled child/idiot. Go play with your toys. You are clogging up the internet with your crap.
Coming from you I take that as a badge of honor.
It took you 5 days of bullshit to say that? You have been twisted into total sickness: now get lost freak: your vomit is disgusting.
wrong: all free riders will starve to death: slackers will not be tolerated and good riddance to them
as for your totally IGNORANT idea about 'policy' What you do not understand is that the people of america do not have control of their elected officials and they have NEVER had any control over their 'policy' decisions' You should know by now that the FED is a private banking cartel owned by the bank of London controlled by the Rothschild international banking cartel and that every single cent of your frderal taxes goes directly to the fed: NOT to your government. You supposed democratic govt is a FARCE... a FRONT: you fucking imbecile> it is owned lock stock and barrel by the 1% of the world and they will NEVER change their policies too please a little no-name like YOU.
Sinice you are illiterat who cannot read a book you do not understand that in today's market world: money controls all the power in the world: it is the international BANKS who have the REAL power... This shadow govt which has existed ever since all the national banks of the western world were taken over by this private cartel of criminal gangsters is WHY the movement to occupy wallstreet began... ALL THE INFORMATION these young protesters discovered about the secret shadow govt BEHIND the facade of official govts is NOT AVAILABLE in ANY corporate or govt media outlet. You dumb fuckface obviously didn't do your homework. We do NOT go back to bartering ANYTHING AT ALL you fucking STUPID RABBIT. You start living in a self sufficient community THAT DOES NOT NEED ANYTHING TO LIVE HAPPY HEALTHY LIVES except the willingness to TOUCH EACH OTHER and touch all living creatures with friendship and curiosity and get RID of your machines.
"Sinice you are illiterat who cannot read a book" What language is that?
"ALL THE INFORMATION these young protesters discover about the secret shadow govt BEHIND the facade of official govts is NOT AVAILABLE in ANY corporate or govt media outlet." This is JUST ONE REASON why no one takes you SERIOUSLY. One groundless statement after another. King turak, guardian of our most treasured secrets!
zzzzz
Oh. So not everyone helps each other. Got it, so the inherent flaw in your system is your system, because you said everyone WOULD help each other. Now you're saying they won't. What about gypsies? How could you tell they aren't just taking advantage of everyone they meet?
Anyway, about my ignorance. I do not disagree that corporations mostly own the government. It's how people get elected. Lobbyists are capable of getting most things passed, but you think the government is owned by the Jews? What years specifically did the Jews take over the all the world's governments? Come on, you might just be an anti-semite. Also, there is no such thing as a "Democratic" country. They are all republics, so can we at least stick to facts and empirical evidence? If they only own the lock, stock, and barrel, then they only own about 2/3 of a modern gun. So, we own the other 1/3? (If you're going to use a figure of speech, use one that is semi-accurate or at least makes your point correctly.) Also, if they're never going to change policies, then why are you on the Occupy Wall St. forums? According to you, your voice isn't heard and it is therefore completely pointless to express your opinion.
I'm "illiterat" apparently. I don't know what that is, but if I was illiterate I wouldn't be able to read your posts that contain such horrible grammar and spelling. I feel like I'm reading a 10 year-olds attempt at an intelligent, coherent thought.
So, protestors learned about all this information through some way other than media outlets controlled by governments and corporations? Interesting, because that's how news happens. The government is required to make government reports, hence the name "government" reports. Where exactly could they have gotten this information? Not from government or corporations, which combined control the internet, cell phone services, social media, newspapers, and what you see on TV. So, really, where did they get all this research? Maybe you could send me all these hidden files that apparently must exist.
You want to live in a self-sufficient community? Cool, join a convent or a monastery. They'll gladly take you in. While you're at it, maybe you can show everybody how to create electricity, build houses, make computers, rebuild the internet, forage, farm, and hunt. When you are capable of doing all these things for a town, let me know and we'll start your idea all over the world.
"....touch all living creatures...." What? Latent bestiality? Please don't start raping sheep.
"...get RID of your machines." Great. You start by throwing away your computer and never using the internet again. It would do everyone good if we never had the unfortunate chance of seeing this type of drivel written on the internet.
I would gladly go into greater detail as to why this is an idealistic plan that has no chance of ever succeeding, but I know all you are going to argue is how stupid I am. Apparently to you emotional drivel about how stupid everyone is, is a better argument than logic and policy changes. Alas, I am tired, and can waste no more time on someone that cannot use logic in arguments, only insults.
Not everyone would be helped jackass: the beauty of the self-sufficient community is that it gets RID of all selfish uncooperative little jerks like you without firing a shot. People like you will be edged out, and I mean OUT of self-sufficient communities and will forced to fend for yourselves: where you will starve and die and hate and kill, along with all the other rabid misfits and diseased offspring of parents who never should have had children and never should have been allowed to raise children. That is the beauty of self-sufficient communities based upon equality, voluntary cooperation between equals with NO leaders allowed to exist within the community: it cleans itself out of all the human scum which civilized cultures based upon greed and money create and are unable to control.
"A community based on equality," that eliminates everyone who disagrees with you. "It cleans itself out of all the human scum." Is your real name Adolph Eichmann?
A community that practices voluntary cooperation has no leaders and nobody is more powerful than anyone else: that is the basic idea that was destroyed when the French Revolution began: The basic idea of equality and fraternity was corrupted so badly: the french people ended having a totalitarian EMPEROR called Napoleon Bonaparte rule them. He represented the OPPOSITE of equality. I realize you're an ignorant child, have never read a book in your ignorant life, and do not understand mature concepts like equality so get the fuck lost and don't come back.
your drivel is not worth reading... your corruption is leaking out: latent bestiality: that is what you are full of: goodbye and good riddance to scum like you:
Turak! You are so strong and assertive it's giving me a boner! Are you thinking about me?
Why do you think these protesters are marching on the banks and not their govt? you fucking jackass... They're marching on the banks instead of the Govt because they've done their homework. They've discovered the ugly fact that the banks control the govt. They're going to the root of the problem of your entire corrupt rotten social system: rich greedy bankers controlling all the money in the world buying up all the politicians:
And you you fucking STUPID STUPID ass haven't even come to this obvious conclusion yet: you're still living in a fantasy the dram bullshit that your Govt is working for your interests and that you have any power or control over your govt. That is a total FARCE. That is what all your propaganda corporate media outlets have been selling you... you still buy into that bullshit... Well you dumbass: the millions of protesters marching against wallstreet are no longer brainwashed: understand? They are not brainwashed anymore.
But YOU still are.
one problem i see in your hugs & kisses based economy is that the eye-appealing folks will be getting most of them, and the overweight and less attractive folks in the crowd will be left out.
am seeing another 1% VS 99% division in your future system.
good! This will give all the fat lazy over eaters and slobs a VERY strong MOTIVE to lose weight and exercise and play sports... Want to join yet? Or do you need to lose a few extra pounds first?. If I start my own self-sufficient community: you will not be on my acceptance list.
You see... self-sufficient communities are definitely NOT for everybody. IN fact self-sufficient communities will only accept the BEST, the healthiest, the prettiest, the most fit, the most intelligent energetic risk takers and creative geniuses out there... They the TOP OF THE LINE communities: they are NOT for you dunderheads and low-lifes...
Now if any of you fat lazy slobs want to start your OWN fa tub-of lard community... go TO it! And SEE HOW FAR YOU GET... as all you fatso's sit on your asses and wait for somebody else to pick of the loads. Am I getting THROUGH to you yet?
So did your mask just slip? Did you just compare yourself and your movement to being the new age Nazi's? Go live on your island the sane amongst us want nothing to do with you.
I have nio mask: you do.
Your inventing this nazi shit is exposing your hidden agenda of hate: you're the hater... Too bad you fat people won't be accepted into this new kind of communal living: I think you need to cut down on your food intake little piggy.
where do i sign up..??
i'm good looking, fit, self centered....er...self reliant, intelligent enough to find this web site, risk taker (should be working right now).
Since you don't live near me: start your own self-sufficient community: but you already have two strikes against you:
No1: you're not a self-starter. If you were you would simply take my idea and run with it and use it without asking to sign up or join anyone else's self-sufficient community. You also are not very intelligent because starting up your own self-sufficient community will give you the chance to design and plan that community to suit your own kind of lifestyle... If you try to join any community which someone else began, chances are they will not be exactly what you are looking for.
No2: You said you are self-centered: that is a HUGE negative statement. Positive self-starters are people who enjoy sharing life with other people equally on an equal basis; they are gregarious happy people who are not self-centered at all. In fact they are the opposite of your kind: they care more about others than they care about themselves.
You see: if you are serious about wanting to create a better life for yourself: the best way you can do it is to create a better life for every living organism around you and near you. If you want to live a better life and become a better human being: the first task you have is to work on your own faults and failings... As everyone else should be doing should do and doesn't.
This is what your entire commercial culture of self-gratification and greed and selfishness has obliterated from the annals of human history and from the society you live in. You, as a human being have an important role on this earth, and in order to find meaning in your life: you must work at improving yourself: not gratifying your lowest and worst vices and urges. Anyone an do this. Everyone should do it. But none of you even TRY to do it. That is the main reason you will never search for a community to join and why you will never begin one yourself. You have no positive energy, no positive intention no motive to become a better human being, to improve yourself, to make things better instead of making it worse... Instead you preserve the worst and destroy the best. What you should do is keep the best and leave the rest... then you should take the best there is and make it BETTER THAN IT WAS. Instead: you expect car manufacturers to do this for you! But you as a human being improve yourself? NEVER! You're much to lazy and spoiled rotten, and filled with vices and failings... which your culture glorifies and applauds and encourages. To even try to become a better human being you must FIGHT the entire corrupt culture of your society. That is not easy, especially when you are alone and outnumbered and surrounded by corruption. BUT... if you create your own self-sufficient community! You will have an environment you can CONTROL, and environment you can IMPROVE, a close circle of friends who can HELP you. You will not be alone anymore in your struggle to improve yourself and the earth you live on.
You still have not provided one shred of evidence that; Your self sufficient communities exist anywhere other than in the small of your mind. How they were successful in attaining self sufficiency. What was the criteria that was used to measure success. How was success measured, what were the controls against which success was measured. Were there any ambiguating conditions. THESE ARE THE BASICS OF RATIONAL INQUIRY, NOT GROUNDLESS PROCLAMATIONS.
So you don't want to google self-sufficient communities on the internet. Fine: then don't.
you want me to do it for you: go to hell; you're already going there anyways so you can go there without me.
You want to rationally inquire about self-sufficient communities? Go inquire. You want me to do it for you? Go fuck yourself. It is amazing how your generation of imbeciles have this idea, this insane sense of entitlement that everything is supposed to be given to you without you making any effort on your part to earn it. Let me explain something to you which will go in one ear and out the other since your head is empty of all intelligence: the only things worth having and the only things you will ever learn: are the things you EARN... by your onw effort and desire to know and drive and will: Everything that is given to you for free is WORTHLESS. It is only when you share something with another human being that it becomes worthwhile.
You ask me to give you proof? Go ask wallstreet to give you all their stolen trillions of dollars back: see if they will do it.
You want everything to be a proven SUCCESS before you dare even try it? Then you will never succeed in your entire life.
You want to measure success? Go ahead and measure your ass and see how successful you are at being an asshole.
You want to be in CONTROL of everything? Before you dare DO anything? Your kind is exactly the kind of asses who will NEVER join a self-sufficient community: and if you ever do... they will kick you out very quickly. Control freaks are a dime-a-million. Little child: face it. You're a born coward and will never find the courage to do anything in your entire paranoid life. You will sit in front of your zombie machine for the rest of your life: just like all the other billions of zombies who sit on their asses staring at advertised propaganda. Don't answer this post: you've already proven that you're a waste of time.
Why does this sound like a craigslist ad?
why do you sound like a craigslist troll?
It was a joke...fun remember. Can't there be laughs with the hugs & kisses?
You can't have fun over the internet. You can only have fun when you play with other people; especially with children. That means personal contact. That means making personal friends and keeping a close relationship with them and getting to know them and spending time with them. That means shutting off your fucking computer and spending your life with other living people IN PERSON; not over the internet or by e-mail. Apparently you have never had any fun in your deprived life since you don't know what fun is.
"...fun when you play with other people; especially with children." Wow. Dude. You need to slow down and get some help. Pedophilia is not okay.
"...don't know what fun is." Well, in your warped definition it is apparently committing atrocities against children, so, yeah, I'm pretty sure nobody else on this thread has had any "fun" in their lives. However, if you were to take "fun" as it pertains to each person, then, actually, pretty much everybody has fun at some point.
You are a very sick. diseased person. You obviously are not married. You obviously have never raised children. Parents who play with their children are not pedophiles. Your parents obviously never played with you which is why you do not know what fun is and why you do not know how to play. Your assumption that everyone had fun at some point in their lives is a perfect example of how deprived and how sick your deprived generation of computer freaks actually is.
Now... if YOU ever in your life ever learned how to play and have fun... you would have spoken of how YOU had fun: not about some imaginary imagination, or imaginary assumption which is unprovable and total bullshit. But since you never did have fun in your miserable life: you are forced to invent some imaginary assumption in order to hide the fact that your entire society doesn' t knowo how to have fun and doesn't know how to play.
If you EVER are lucky enough to encounter happy healthy children who are well raised and are smiling and laughing and outdoors: watch them having all the fun you never did when you were a child. Some children know how to have fun because they haven't yet been brainwashed into fat slobs sitting on their sofas watching the boob tube. In fact there are many healthy children that can TEACH you how to have fun because they are naturally spontaneous and creative... which you are not and have never been.
In a self-sufficient community: you can have fun and play all the time. Not just one minute of your life. You have never experienced a life of fun and play. I have. That is the basic reason all of you freaks are filled with envy and hatred against me.
So, your post boils down to basically you still want to touch children for “fun” and you’re pathetic because you require children to teach you how to have said “fun.” I don’t know about you, but I’m smarter than children and can figure out how to have fun for myself, asshole. Dude you didn’t help your case with the whole still desiring to touch little children. I wish I knew where you lived, so that I could call child services on your dumb ass.
“...imaginary imagination...” Way to be redundant, dumbfuck.
“...filled with envy and hatred...” Yeah, I’m sooooooooooooo envious. Mr. Keyboard Warrior from Canada that is supposedly a professional writer, who can’t spell, can’t figure out basic grammar, and comes up with ideas mentally retarded 3-year-olds know are stupid. As far as the hatred? Yeah, I hate you. Stupid motherfuckers piss me off, much like they did George Carlin.
So you're filled with hate and you spew obscenity over the internet and you're a child molester: What's your name?
No, I'm not filled with hate. I just hate you, because you are the worst thing to happen to the planet. It goes 1. you, 2. genocide, 3. war.
Yes, I spew obscenities because I posted one post that contained 5 curses. While all but 2 of your posts in response to mine has contained cursing. At least practice what you preach.
Genius comeback on the whole child molester thing. I dislike being around children, let alone raping them. Gotta say, based on the fact that you continually talk about touching children, you seem more like the child raping kind.
Also, you didn't respond to the fact that mentally retarded 3-year-olds understand the world and economics better than you, and as a side note they have far more eloquent speech patterns.
Compliments: Zandavorn
ahhh! You're a child hater. A person who would never be accepted into any community that has children. You must really hate yourself. You had a really lousy childhood: didn't you? You never got to play, right? You never were given a chance right? And now you're a sour ass who goes around hating not only children but total strangers you've never met before.
I had a wonderful childhood. I learned to play and have fun: So that will REALLY give you impetus of your envy and hatred of me... right? You don't like being with children: you're an anti-social; anti-family freak. Don' you ever go to family getogethers? Or is your family totally dysfunctional like you are? Do you hate your family too?
You are much too sick to understand that children do not need money to have fun, and that if you allowed children to teach you: they would educate you how to love without needing money. Jesus said: "And a child shall lead them' And he was correct.
WOW! By your inability to argue my first point, you have, by default, admitted to being worse than genocide. You, sir, are disgusting. Hilter, Joseph Kony, Stalin, Tojo, and Mussolini have nothing on you.
You couldn't respond to my 2nd point. Let's hear a "Hip-hip-hooray!" for logic, because you knew you couldn't deny mine.
Actually, I don't hate children because I'm hateful. I dislike being around children, because I like having conversations with INTELLIGENT people. This conversation is not such a conversation.
You never responded to my 4th point. Once again, you admit you are dumber than a mentally retarded 3-year-old.
You are an infantile regressive personality who never had a childhood and never grew up and hates himself and hates all children: as such: you are not acceptable into any self-sufficient community because these new communities will have married couples and families and children, and they will reject in disgust all freaks like you instantly. Do you understand yet? You're not a decent human being. You're hater. Now go and gnash your teeth in private and fuck off: you're revolting.
Please practice what you preach...shut off your fucking computer!
I do. But to reach people in this computer generation: the internet is the only social form of communication left simply because all communal and community organizations and institutions and practices have been destroyed by your commercial for-profit shit culture. The OW movement is a movement AWAY from sitting on your fat ass watching a screen. The people on wallstreet are NOT like you at all. They can and do socialize in person and they create new friendships and ties which none of you computer freaks know how to. This thread is for THEM: Not for you non-participating watchers: not for you deprived freaks sitting alone in your isolation rooms. All of you negative people here are the ENEMY of he OW movement. None of you want to change your society for the better. If the OW movement takes over the wrold; the first people to disappear will be you freaks stuck inside your lonely rooms hiding from the outside world and from all personal social contact with other human beings.
You have a steadfast belief in your own infallibility, a clear sign that you have painted yourself into a corner and refuse to accept anything that doesn't neatly fit like a square peg in your asshole.
SUCCESS is a criteria for gauging the merit of any endeavor. Create a hypothesis, do research, compare your results to your hypothesis. Do you know anything about social research? Have you ever heard of Pragmatism? Or are these just annoying considerations to be discarded because they rebuke your grand design.
Tell me about equality. Is this another of your universal truths? Does it exist in your self-sufficient community where everyone is of a like mind with you? Does it roam the empty caverns of inequality like a sterile equation?
Do you do all of your research on the internet? Where everyone is selling something; either an object or a concept? Do you know what, "peer reviewed," means? (Or are you without peers?) I happen to have two degrees, one in Political Science, the other in Education. (Of course you'll think they are worthless.) Your type of unsubstantiated babble is relegated to the realm of senseless jargon by anyone with any education. (That must make you whinny with delight!) You are the proverbial horses ass.
You stupid, stupid, stupid stupid ass: Creating a completely self-d\sufficient community has never been done yet: you fucking imbecile: the idea is MINE and it's NEW. Until it's been DONE:you fucking brainless jackass: you can't 'measure' its 'success'. Try to understand something you fucking peabrain: you can't measure something that hasn't been done yet: but most of all: go away and get LOST.. You're WAY too fucking STUPID to understand plain English
I'm self employed: I use craigslist. People who want to crack jokes on this forum can go down to wall street... there you can meet and speak to all of the dedicated young people who are up in arms about the biggest financial scandal of the last century... After you make your wise cracks to them and they don't kick your teeth in: come back and tell me which wise cracks making fun of their efforts to change your society for the better they liked and which ones they didn't. I for one will not come on this forum and make fun of them.
I saw a video the other day... a 280 LB staff sergeant veteran of the Afghan and Irag wars... yelling at the NYPD cops for beating up innocent people on the streret who were doing nothing wrong... He was getting angry about the fact that he had risked his life overseas to keep Americans safe from bodily harm... only to see American police beating up American citizens on wall street... with video cameras all around them... this was being recorded by so many independent journalists and people with video cams, that the shots of him yelling at the cops about no honer in beating up innocent civilians had 3-4 people covering him. The cops tried to ignore him... but he was in their face: not more than 2ft away... They tried to pretend they weren't scared of him... but he was getting angry, and their faces were WHITE.... after he finished yelling at the cops: they all disappeared from the street like magic... A very ugly scene was avoided by their quick disappearance. You could see the fucking little scared NYPD shits almost pissing in their pants trying to stare down a professional killer who had come from Afghanistan and Iraq and was wearing his army jacket with the medals for bravery in battle on it waving in the wind... He was about to go berserk and they knew it. After the cops disappeared, people came up to him and hugged him, shook his hand, thanked him for standing up against the cops.... He told it like it is... All cops are cowards. All cops are bullies. When they come up against someone who is not afraid of them: they don't know WHAT to do... except retreat. You want to make fun of this? Your whole world is very close to blowing up. Go make your jokes somewhere else.
Alright, you've made it clear. Your whole post is just a troll.
someone ban this jerk from this forum
You're referring to a barter system. That's fine for a provincial government of a very small region but there's just no way it would work on a grand scale.
I'll take this thread to be one of cynicism, that there's absolutely no way anyone would seriously entertain bartering grass-clippings for utilities (or whatever other impractical combinations anyone else can conceive of).
there won't be any utility companies and there will not be any businesses for profit: I am speaking of a completely self-sufficient community that does not need ANY imports and does not trade or barter with anyone...
WHAT THIS DOES is it gives you your POWER back... you fucking stupid imbecile: it returns to you ALL OF THE POWER your forefathers and ancestors gave away to Kings and rulers and assholes who abused that power and continue to do so: sudden;y you have NOBODY OVER YOU ANYMORE: no police, no army, no president, no elected official NOBODY: This means you can do as you please as long as you cooperate voluntarily and intelligently with the people in your community...
However... If you DON'T want to be cooperative and if you DON'T want to be intelligent: then you will be kicked OUT of the self-sufficient community you live in and then you will be up shit creek without a paddle... which is a good thing because then Justice will be served to one and all WITHOUT any system of useless laws or regulations.
No. Not a barter system> a system that does not consume anything. 100% self-sufficiency. No need to barter for anything. Creative cooperation and creative innovations. It's already been done all over the world in so many creative ingenious ways, it would take years to find and list of the small communities that have solved their economic and communal problems creatively without using money. by the practicing self-sufficiency.
For instance: a number of small communities have used wetlands to create more wetlands... and more wildlife locking to these wetlands; simply by organically processing their sewage instead of using the conventional toxic chemical systems which does not work, and is exorbitantly expensive. As a result of this: their sewage system is a part of their park system:which attracts tourists and wildlife lovers and fuels the local economy. In other words: their own shit is turning not into gold but into a beautiful natural paradise of birds and fish and animals and insects and plants thriving from it. And that is only one example... there are thousands more.
I admire your ideology and sincerely envision your utopia, but we're dealing with some communities as large as 7 million + with established infrastructure that wouldn't accommodate self-sufficiency due to the lack of available space.
Paradise is a place wherein people and nature can coexist in harmony without need or want other than what's provided by the land. However, this society has transitioned far from this and it is, I'm afraid, considered archaic, idealistic and regressive thinking. No offense intended, though. You've obviously endured enough of "society" and its inherent perils, like the great artist, Paul Gauguin, who was so weary of corrupt culture and industrialization that he relocated to the primitive islands of Tahiti.
Personally, what you speak of seems alluring. The peace of a life of relative simplicity and communal living is what ensures that most Puritans (Quakers) among us remain so reclusive, to guard what they perceive to be their "paradise" with utter dedication.
Although I agree with your ideals here, I'm just as certain that these things are well behind us and not achievable, even if for want.
BTW: this is one of the most refreshing threads I've posted to all day. Most are riddled with anti-protest rhetoric and outright hate. Although there will be opposing views here, at least it's based in good intent.
I have no ideology and you are totally missing the point as is everyone else on this thread. I am not formulating any utopia. Instead I am telling you the practical alternative to money is getting rid of it. That is not regressive: that is PROGRESSIVE TO THE MAX. I sure as hell do not want to escape to some island: I want people to GET RID OF MONEY and GET RID OF THEIR STUPID POINTLESS GREED FOR MONEY. That is not a paradise: that is common sense. Exchanging pieces of paper for cooperating with other people is dehumanizing and STUPID. You have never lived in a community: I have. Communities are not simplistic. Your idea of shutting yourself off from the outer world is DEFUNCT. All of the attempts to found a new form of human society were corrupted from the very start because they were all REGRESSIVE: they were trying to bring back an imaginary past which never existed. The human species has been so brainwashed by the shit called commercial capitalism that people have now begun to believe that there is something called the 'selfish' gene... and that this genome is the only thing which marks true intelligence. That is crazy enough, but what none of you have the brains to understand is that cooperation beats competition HANDS DOWN EVERY TIME: You have ANYONE put these two ways of dealing with life side-by-side and the WINNER will be COOPERATION.... NOT selfishness NOT greed NOT competition and NOT MONEY. Now get lost: empty headed idiots are all that come on this forum.
Tell us of the community you lived in and how it shaped your ideas. If it's such a great idea why aren't you still there? And if that community no longer exists, why was it a good idea? Got a lot of 'splainin' to do son!
you have a LOT of explaining to do to your mother: When she finds out and she will: you are not going to be happy about what you're doing.
Again, I don't see a reason to be argumentative because I agree. The simple point of placing monetary value on resources/services detracts from human worth.
However, the only communities that are capable of "100% self sufficiency" by the points outlined in your original post, are those that can circumvent the monetary system by way of collective bartering (trading goods/services for goods/services), small communities with plenty of physical space in which to expand their crafts because, after all, the abolishing of the monetary system would effectively do away with corporations that can efficiently mass produce. Nobody's going to work under anyone in a cooperative society. That also includes mass-produced food. Cities like NYC and much smaller even would have to be abandoned because they haven't the inner space for everyone to grow a crop sufficient enough to feed an entire community of that size. Perhaps that's your agenda, to have humanity return to an era of hunters/gathers.
By suggesting that NYC could function on your ideals is laughable. Cooperation without compensation as a motivation would amount to nothing in the preservation of the city because you wrongly assume that everyone who maintains the systems would gladly do so without monetary gain. Most people, realistically speaking, would just as soon pursue their personal dreams than spend hours per day, per month, per year of their lives maintaining sewer infrastructure or picking up trash "in cooperation".
At some point in your system, slavery ensues because there will be gaps in the system that would have to be filled to ensure that the community continues to function.
This is sci-fi rhetoric, really. It's not original thought, it's an idea of human society ripped from the pages of a Roddenberry novel, the "24th Century ideals" presented in fiction through Star Trek. As honorable as it is, you can't seem to reason that it's just as implausible in our current stage of development. Perhaps someday but not today.
total bullshit: you are another boring naysayer. The fact is before the invention of refrigerated rail cars; the food supply of New York city was supplied by farms withing a 15 mile radius of the city. This was during the height of the European mass migrations into New York. If you notice; New Yourk is on the edge of a river. This means that only one half of that radius has land: the other half is water. That is how small an area is needed for the population at the turn of the century. Perma-culture farming has already proven that you can feed over 200 people on a plot of land smaller than 1/2 an acre all year round. The simplicity of design in cities is even easier because you can have more than one acre on any given land because all the buildings have nore than one floor. If you simply replaced all the trees in the city with fruit and nut trees: you would have so much food it would be coming out of your fucking asshole> I am tired of imbeciles on this forum. IS everyone as arrogantly stupid and ignorant and unenlightened as you are?
Not a "boring naysayer", a realist. There's a difference. Nonetheless, you're airing your ideas in the wrong forum. OWS is not interested in regression on a cultural level. Take this to the Green Party or any of a number of other eco-political movements.
The ignorance of which you speak is merely a difference in opinion. There have never been any successful co-ops such as the one you're claiming would work. You are, in fact, theorizing a possible solution that has only been tested as functional on an extremely isolated and small scale. To suggest that NYC could sustain itself would imply that you've figured out how to work approximately 18,000 acres of land (according to your figures) that would only yield a single crop per season (rice, corn... whatever). There would be no diversity in available produce and, frankly, no feasibility since you're not taking into consideration the required labor and resources or the possibility of weather-related crop losses.
You're also denying the fact that land wars would surely become an issue as communities are pit against each other over the very competition you're trying to avoid because there's absolutely no way all current population centers could be 100% self-sustaining... unless you've figured out how to grow crops in the desert without having to sacrifice self-sufficiency by still relying on others' water supplies. Or, perhaps, maybe everyone should just move away from population centers for more "favorable" ground? Again, land wars as incoming settlers occupy neighboring communities.
There are too many flaws in the system to list. Opposing an opinion doesn't make anyone "arrogantly stupid". It makes them an individual. Furthermore, I'm giving up on reasoning with you.
You're ideas, though I respect for their mere creative value, are distracting away from the purpose of this movement. If you really want to affect change, get out on the streets and show your support for your fellow citizens by taking a serious, realistic approach to "cooperative efforts". Otherwise, you're only going to experience more disappointment because now is not the time to be discussing 24th Century idealism.
You're regurgitating the past: I'm creating a new future that is not a regurgitation of the past.
you are a fucking idiot and you are boringly stupid: wrangling about money will not get any of you selfish assholes anywhere except more like the 1% you ENVY so much. The roots of all evil is MONEY you dumb fucking arrogant braindead prick: get this through your fucking brains. Fighting over money is worse than stealing it. Fighting and stealing and robbing each other is WHY you dumb fucks have a dysfunctional society that is self-destructing by its own GREED: now fuck off: your idiocy disgusts me
Wow, getting kinda close to losing all your composure here. Angry much? :P
you are avoiding the facts and imagining things
read this again:
wrangling about money will not get any of you anywhere except more like the 1% you ENVY so much. The roots of all evil is MONEY : get this through your brains. Fighting over money is worse than stealing it. Fighting and stealing and robbing each other is WHY you have a dysfunctional society that is self-destructing by its own GREED:
The reason you are not absorbing the truth is because you are a dumb fuck
Chill, dude. You're the one avoiding the facts. I'm merely avoiding your obvious mental illness for fear that it (or they) might be contagious.
If you really want "your ideas" (those not representing the views of any sane realist) brought to proper light, get off your lazy ass and get to the streets. Frankly, you self-righteous, introverted jack wagon, all I hear from you is this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9qiZrJaLRs
The point is: you are deaf to all truth and all logic:
there are millions of idiots who only listen to themselves and never listen to anyone else.
Universal truth cannot be avoided or denied. Universal logic cannot be denied: you can only run away from it and pretend you never heard it . That is your only defense against the logical truth: you run away and cannot sustain an intelligent discussion. Every time you run away from the truth you are a LOSER. Every time you cannot face the logical truth: you are a COWARD. Every time you try to deny the truth you are a LIAR. Every time you refuse to admit the truth you are being consciously DISHONEST with yourself and others. Because this is how you deal with reality: you have NO morals NO ethics which you are willing to stand for and defend.
I on the other hand can stand here and defend my ethics and moral against millions of you fucking LOSERS and WIN every time without even breaking a sweat. Get that through your fucking head. When I defend my views LOGICALLY AND INTELLIGENTLY to everyone who questions or attacks the idea of self-sufficient communities, and not one of you can find a single thing WRONG with my answers: then all of you are LOSERS, giving up without even a fight because you have no guts, no courage, no honesty, no intelligence and no desire to improve yourselves or create a better way of life.
read this again:
wrangling about money will not get any of you anywhere except more like the 1% you ENVY so much. The roots of all evil is MONEY : get this through your brains. Fighting over money is worse than stealing it. Fighting and stealing and robbing each other is WHY you have a dysfunctional society that is self-destructing by its own GREED:
The reason you are not absorbing the truth is because you are a dumb fuck
UNtil you get the facts through your thick head you will continue to be an idiot
Ever notice that the only people who want to abolish money are the people who don't have any?
no, i have money, easy made, with an easy job, and i would so much love to abolish money...
ever notice that the people who have money are selfish assholes like you?
I've been very broke. I've eaten Ramen noodles for months. I've seen both sides. Abolishing money seemed like a much more attractive idea during the times when I was broke. During the times when I've managed to earn something and had some savings, it didn't seem like such a great idea any more.
you had money? But you did NOT have LOVE: you did not have FRIENDS. you did not have a SOCIAL LIFE, you did not have FUN, you did not have HAPPINESS, you did not have HEALTH
So what the fuck did your money get you? nothing
how stupid are you anyways... are you 8 years old? or 7? How old ARE you?
Those first two paragraphs are fairly accurate. The biggest thing that I learned from making a zillion dollars and then losing it in the dot-com crash was that I wasn't really any happier when I had all of that money than I was when I was broke afterward. I'm far more balanced in life as I ride the latest technology boom wave. You learn moderation through excess. A lot of people are learning that lesson now after losing their shirts in the real estate crash, but they won't realize it for a few more years because they're so busy freaking out right now trying to pay the rent. I've been there.
(I'm pushing 40.)
You are disgusting: you haven't learned a single thing: you have sold out to your love of money, your GREED; PURE SELFISHNEESS: get away from me
One time I hired a guy just out of the Peace Corps. Just back from the Dominican Republic. I put him on a job registering free software licenses from my company for legitimate non-profit organizations. So he was nothing but expense from the beginning, but I was okay with that for over two years.
He ended up calling my company's potential customers "profiteers" (I discovered this after trusting him for too long and then checking his outgoing emails) and eventually started treating me pretty much like you're treating me now. That was the end of his free, on-the-job education in technology.
I work for myself: and I have learned the only way you will find good people is if they are motivated enough to be taught WITHOUT BEING PAID. Only after a person proves they know what they are doing should they be paid for their work. The problem is in our money economy: nobody CARES how competent you are or not: nobody puts any effort in improving ANYTHING: people become MACHINES which are USED by people like YOU: this in itself is the basic reason why all money should be gotten rid of. You are a profit monger. All business is a creation of people who love money more than they do living. You sick attempts to excuse your own guilt are revolting I am not interested in your stupid guilty conscience: go convince YOURSELF first how moral and ethical you are: not me. You protest to much. You stink of guilt too much... get away from me.
I work for myself: and I have learned the only way you will find good people is if they are motivated enough to be taught WITHOUT BEING PAID. Only after a person proves they know what they are doing should they be paid for their work. The problem is in our money economy: nobody CARES how competent you are or not: nobody puts any effort in improving ANYTHING: people become MACHINES which are USED by people like YOU: this in itself is the basic reason why all money should be gotten rid of. You are a profit monger. All business is a creation of people who love money more than they do living. You sick attempts to excuse your own guilt are revolting I am not interested in your stupid guilty conscience: go convince YOURSELF first how moral and ethical you are: not me. You protest to much. You stink of guilt too much... get away from me.
We need to boycott imported goods Buy Made in the USA!!!!!!
TL2
What does that mean?
too little, too late
Right on mate!
Okay let's say you have this gret idea that'll change the whole world and make it 100x better, but u need mined resources to do it. How can you achieve that with hugs and kisses?
'mined resources'???? "MINED RESOURCES"????
so you can build FACTORIES??
so you can have more ROBBER BARONS enslaving more poor people?
So you can create MORE POLLUTION?
So you can have MORE BREAST CANCER?
That's already been done
How fucking stupid are you? What's is your IQ... 24?
You know, if we collectively decided to use something else to barter with instead of federal reserve notes, then they would cease to influence politics. The constitution allows us to trade whatever we want for goods. If we could get main street to except our fiat money, and built our economies around it, then the people would actually be in control of the currency. It is a good idea. We just have to convince at least 25% of the public to join this currency system. Maybe competing currencies is a good idea?
Look up and research the Ithaca dollar... it's already been done and it works.
Now: see how many pizza-eating, hamburger chomping, beer guzzling illiterate, sports nuts and gambling addicts who work for wall mart or J.C. Penney are intelligent enough to understand what you learned. If you can spread the word: do so. I do not expect 80% of the American public to even be interested in such an idea. Which is why I am telling you to create your OWN community: not wait for the idiots called the silent majority to ever do anything revolutionary
I agree. Then we provide the services to each other, outside the system. The only problem I see is what if the system decides that they own all the resources, and they decide not to accept our currency (that is their right too)? Then the community would be deprived of access to it's resources. Thus, starving us all out.
You're missing the point again. The entire motive of creating your own local currency is to keep all the wealth and resources of your community INSIDE your community instead of allowing all the money inside your community to be sucked out and funneled into offshore banck accounts of the international robber-baron corporations who are the parasitical economic institutions that sneak into your community, contribute nothing to your community, and take as much MONEY out of your community as possible without investing inyour community. Once you have a community that is large enough to be self-sufficient: you will not need ot worry about any outside currency or resources. Then... the only economic activity you will be involved in outside of your own self-sufficient community are other self0sufficient communities who you will help voluntarily simply because they have the exact same values, morals, ethics and culture as your self-sufficient community has. This will cut out all money-based interests from gaining any foothold inside your community, and it will diversify your self-sufficiency, until the resources you enjoy will be superior to all the money based economies that do not practice intelligent self-sufficiency an ALL LEVELS of your community. In fact your community will be the envy of the money-based economies, and you will shun them like the greedy pigs they ARE... That alone will destroy their status as the dominant form of global culture in the world and people will begin to abandon them and copy YOUR ways of living which will be a thousand times more intelligent and cooperation and have NO wasteful practices of pointless 'competition' and adversarial conflict.
I agree with you on all your points. But let us look at the practical. Where does main street get its resources. From corporate America. If their vendors and distributers won't accept our people's money, then they will have no value.
Now, if you are suggesting that we grow our own food, drill our own oil, pump our own wells, etc. Then the issue becomes where do we acquire land? The banks own most of the deeds. Again, if they refuse to sell land to us, then we are screwed.
Now,if the government refused federal reserve notes, and only accepted and lent this new currency, then it may be doable. Or, we will have to liberate and nationalize all resources in the people's name, begin printing our own currency and have a people's revolution. But that is a declaration of war and those s.o.b.'s have predators! :)
First: you are assuming too much. Second: you are not willing to stand up and fight ofr anything because you stand for nothing, in fact you are standing with all the greedy 1% of wallstreet. You want more for yourself and less for the 1 % super-rich who own the USA.
You are still thinking inside the box.
If you commit yourself to creating and building your own self-sufficient community: you will not be needing gas or oil or cars for the simple reason that you will be working where you live: not 50 miles away where you don't live. Also: if you create your own self-sufficient community and use your own local currency which they did and continue to use in Ithaca new York... you will have no argument with any financial institution on earth because you will not be using your local currency outside your community. You will not be importing tomatoes from Mexico or pickles from Poland. This in itself is a huge savings of resources. The waste of energy which is going on, by international corporations purposefully destroying local economies so they can bring in imported goods at false prices, which do NOT reflect the actual costs of the goods and the costs of transportation... is one reason the entire pack of cards called globalism is guaranteed to fail and blow up. You have no business experience whatsoever. ALL business is the enemy of human communities. When you have a self-sufficient community which does not use money: there ARE no businesses because the very word itself discribes a corporate entity whose bottom line is MONEY; and self-sufficient communities that do not use money have absolutely NO use for assholes who want to make a buck from their community. Self-sufficient communities can only be created VOLUNTARILY: not for profit: not for money: not for greed: but only for improving HOW YOU LIVE. Self sufficient communities have no work and no jobs EXCEPT voluntary cooperation between equals, no bosses PERIOD no wages, not jobs no nothing except intelligent individuals who are not interested in sucking on a government teat and know they can live just fine without anyone telling them what to do and how to do it.
You are obviously NOT such a person: you are a quavering little weak mouse babbling about things you have never done or seen or experienced; go away: I am tired of people like you.
So, how do you plan on implementing this ideal society? You say it can work if people just believe in it. And poof! Magically it will appear. All I am suggesting, because I agree that we can come up with a better way, is how we get there given the environment we live in.
Just because you can dream up a magical society, and have faith in it does not make you intelligent or brave. The people who are intelligent are the one's that find solutions to problems. The one's who are brave are the one's who work to fix the problem.
So go ahead and dream your dreams, while I, and theorist of us will work to build a better world for you and your kids. Sweet dreams.
you are full of shit. What I am telling you is not an ideal society: I am telling you the logical intelligent things anyone including you can do NOW. You are so stupid, your attempts to rationalize yourself as a realist contradicts the fact that you call yourself a THEORIST not a practical person who actually wants to improve their life. IN order to change how you live: you first must have a desire to WANT to change how you live. You don't even have that. Bullshitters like you are a dime a million on the internet.
You say what I can do now. So right now, I will begin growing my own food, and giving it to my neighbor for their services. Of course, I am quickly kicked out of my apartment because they won't accept my food as payment. They want federal reserve notes because their company is indebted to the bank. Unless everyone accepts this new reality, it is easy for those who have power to destroy it. That is my point.
My question to you was how do you implement these changes in a society where we own nothing. Where theybown everything and are not afraid to use military action to keep the status quo. Believe mr, if the majority of Americans went on strike and did not show up to work, they would use force against us. I understand your argument, and agree with your ideal.
I was just akin for oraticalsteps on how to get there given the current political and economical climate we live in. Yet, you have not provided any answers to my questions. Instead you have resortied to name calling and offensive language. Thisvtells me you have no solutions. Or no plan. That your excuse is well if they not agree with me, or can't see what I am talking about they are just idiots.
No. If you can not discuss, or explain your plan in a reasonable, educable, and intelligent way, you are the idiot. I am not trying to justify in action, I am asking you what specific steps I, and others who agree with your idea, can take Tibetan it into a reality. Please take your ego out of the discussion.
sigh... is everyone as ignorant and dumb as you are?.... Of course you can't start growing your own food in a rented apartment unless the owner allows you to do it... you need to get together with other people and organize a SELF-SUFFICIENT COMMUNITY: that's PLURAL.. get it yet?? You are another mindless brainless naysayer: inventing imaginary negative crap... WHAT IF THE OWNER OF YOUR BUILDING ALLOWS YOU TO GROW YOUR OWN FOOD?? EH? ever think of THAT?? EH? What if your owner is as nice decent person: UNLIKE YOU... EH? WHAT IF he is interested in a communal approach to living EH?? ever think of THAT? No: of course you NEVER think of ANYTHING positive: go jump into your own sewage of negativity
You think an ARMY?? is going to come and ATTACK you? If you DARE to start your own slf-sufficient COMMUNITY?? because WHAT? YOu are posing a 'threat'... a threat to WHAT? Minding your own business and not bothering anyone is a THREAT to the UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT?? How effing STUPID are you?
If you were older than 15 years old you would REMEMBER that POLAND kicked out the largest MILITARY DICTATORSHIP IN HISTORY without firing a shot... They had something called SOCIAL SOLIDARITY: an ORGANIZED opposition to the government: and LECH WALESA became the new DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED PRESIDENT OF POLAND: because HE was one of the leaders of the movement in Poland that organized a NON-VIOLENT RESISTANCE against the OPPRESSION AND the mass poverty going on caused by the corrupt military regime which was backed by the entire RUSSIAN ARMY... Well the Russian army was forced to LEAVE POLAND.
You think that your fucking USA has an oppressive MILITARY REGIME that is more brutal and violent than the old USSR military machine??? you are out of your fucking brainless NOGGIN!! I saw a Video where a staff sergeant from The Afghan and Iragi wars was YELLING AT THE NYPD COPS to LEAVE THE PROTESTERS ALONE... the was a MILITARY COMMANDER IN THE FIELD and he had just returned and when he saw cops beating up innocent citizens who were doing nothing WRONG... he got ANGRY AT THE COPS... do you know what the cops DID?... they BACKED DOWN.. you STUPID STUPID PARANOID ASSHOLE... Most of the MILITARY in the USA are DECENT PEOPLE and they will NEVER begin to attack YOU are ANYONE ELSE in the USA who is a law abiding citizen: in fact they will be ON YOUR SIDE... NOT against you,.
I am fucking SICK of you STUPID brainless ASSES who have only ONE thing in your souls:... FEAR! FEAR! FEAR! STUPIDITY is FEAR. The reason you are so fucking STUPID is because all you have inside you is MINDLESS IRRATIONAL FEAR!
So the government did not invade David Koresh? Cities across the US haven't banned catching rain water? Genetically modified seed companies have not sued independent farmers for copy infringement because one of their pat toned seeds was found on their land? The government isn't currently setting up drones on the Mexican/American border? Get real man. Any threat to their power and wealth, which means the dollar, they WILL attack you. Look at third weld nations that get out if line. That is exactly the model they want here.
And where dies this owner get the building? Does he build it? On what land? Des he own it? Does he pay a bank for the loan to acquire it? How does he get the materials for the building? Generate it from the land? How about the tools to be able to extract resources from the land? Do we make them ourselves? The issue is if value. How do you get the market to value one currency over another. In a free market the consumers set the value. In our economy the banks and government determine that value.
I am not saying it is impossible. But if you think those in power are going to be like Poland's government, you seriously must wake up, dude. This is a fight. They will use force. Prepare for it and use it against them.
And, really? The name calling? How does that help your cause? It makes you look childish, and like you are throwing a temper tantrum. We can be adults and have a civil discussion. Yes?
Ok. I am going to try this one more time.... So, what I should do is share my resourcesvand my time with the people in my community. No money. More like a family where we all pitch in for the family. So, I would go to work, provide my services, then when I was off work I could use others services while they worked. No money. Just the community working together to take care of the community? And that money, or the desire for money, is what keeps us from interacting in this natural state? So our only limitation is ourselves and that we perceive money to have value, when in fact it is worthless. The belief in money and the desire for money is what enslaved us.
Yep. No thoughts. Only name calling. Troll. Oh well. Thought you were serious...
David Karesh did not create a community that used no money you fucking braindead imbecile
if he had refused to use money in his community and become self-sufficient: nobody would have known they even existed
Instead he began going on a buying spree buying weapons of mass destruction: this alerted the authorities because they want to be in control of all the GUNS AND AMMUNITION... don't you know this, you dumb fucking fartface? Bringing up this kind of red herring into a thread which is speaking of creating self-sufficient communities without using money is not just despicable: it exposes to everyone just how fucking STUPID you are
You are a paranoid no-no: go paranoid somewhere else
hmm. Thats all fuzzy and cute but my bad breath which i inherited genetically would surely lessen the value of my kisses, and people might not want to accept them for goods or services. So what am I to do? (kidding)
Anyone out there willing to accept a kiss from Al Gore or Dick Cheney for a beer?
You are missing the point. The Dick Cheney;s of the world would starve to death and DIE... apparently you are like him also; this only proves my system will work very well.
;) no, i was merely razzing ya turak. smiles. Its a beautiful thought. and hey, capital doesn't have to be fiat money, currency doesnt have to be printed up out of thin air backed by nothing.
It can be anything. Shells, feathers, even hugs or kisses. It least those are real and are actually worth their face value.
Cheerz!
go fuck yourself you do not know what LIFE is: you do not know what LOVE is: you do not know ANYTHING: bullshit assholes that come here to waste your time shooting off your fat ignorant mouths DISGUST ME.
NONE of you useless shitheads qualify for belonging to a self-sufficient community. All of you have FAILED THE TEST OF REASON AND LOGIC. All of you are GUILTY OF LYING TO YOURSELVES AND TO OTHERS
..If you don't use the paper economy you're deemed a threat and will be investigated...but i do agree and wish very much we could live in non fear based world.
you 'wish'??? what's stopping you from not being afraid? the tooth fairy under your bed? You are another paranoid zero. Millions of meaningless zeroes out there in computerland. Somebody under your bed is holding a gun to your head if you don't use paper money??? So this is fucking brainwashed you fucking lowlife freaks have become sucking on your fucking mass media. TV and movies
lol..no...it's just the only currency that is legal. oh wait you're right, there's plastic we can use that too,,,and checks..for now..money orders are good but you have to have paper money or the plastic to get them..and stores hate it when you use a credit card instead of cash to purchase a money order. so I'm willing to not be afraid I just know hugs and kisses aren't being exchanged yet for apples....yet.
You will never be accepted into a self-sufficient community. Your kind are the ones who will starve to death when the money economy blows up: which it is about to do.
That's a long term goal my friend, you can't skip steps.
I agree. So, what is the first step !
The first step would be to organize the workers and set up a workers administration a long side the current one. Or really I guess the first step would be to educate more workers on Marxism, but that's just my point of view as a Marxist. Other people may have other opinions.
the first step is to recognize who your ENEMIES ARE. You enemies are the ones who get all the power and money from robbing you 99% and turning you into nice obedient wage slaves:
SO... in founding your self-sufficient community: you do not allow ANYONE into your community who is the E#ENEMY of your community. That means you do not let in the police: you do not let in the govt, you do not let in businessmen, you do not let in stores, you do not let in anyone who is trying to sell you ANYTHING> because MONEY is the ROOT of all evil
got that?
Once you have cleaned yourselves of all these enemies: you pool your money and resources: and establish an independent COMMUNITY where everyone is on the same page of voluntary sharing and voluntary cooperation.
The one sticking point of this system is the possibility of people trying to out you from your own community claiming that you do not own the land you live on... This was what they did to all the indians. They stole their land... land the natives had no right to sell them.
This brings up the major point of all civilized bribery and chicanery about who owns what... If your pools resources allow all of you to buy property which you will live on: you will still need to pay taxes to people who do not deserve one cent from you because you will not be using or needing their services.
The simplest way to establish a community without money is to organize people where you already live and simply stop using money and refuse to allow anyone who is not a part of your self-sufficient community into your community.
The point to this is simple: either you are willing to commit your LIFE to building a healthy community or you are not. If you are: then NOBODY will have the guts or the will to push you foff your land. Only if you are all COMMITTED TO THIS GOAL OF COMMUNITY can you succeed.
Self sufficient communities will never be founded by your breed of spoiled babies. They will be founded by INDIVIDUALISTS who despise the conforming masses and computer freaks like you. And they will be PREPARED for any and every possible contingency and they will take over the land they CHOOSE to live on, and establish their self-sufficient community and nobody in the entire world will come near them or even try to out them from that land. Why? Because when you make a living commitment to the living land you live on... you make a commitment to safe-guard and cherish every living thing on that land and water and air, and you will VALUE every living thing on it and over it and under it because they will all be your FRIENDS and you will live WITH them in friendship and you will not harm one living thing on the land you live on.
That is not to say you will not kill. You will KILL anyone who tries to harm you or tries to harm any living thing where you live or even NEAR where you live: so all the killers will FLEE form where you live and give your land and you a WIDE BERTH... Do you understand yet why this will WORK?? It will work because all of you will be POSITIVE ENERGY: and any negative energy creature or person coming even NEAR your land will be sensed and attacked and chased OUT or KILLED DEAD.
By living FOR LIFE and having something WORTHWHILE TO LIVE FOR... you will automatically have something you are also willing to DIE FOR that is WORTHWHILE>>>>
Up to now... the only insane apes who have killed have been people who have been brainwashed into acting as mobs, as huge anonymous masses called armies. The delusion in these huge masses of people is that when they are given the order o attack and kill: each one thinks they still have a chance of not being killed IN RETURN for their sin of killing a living creature: this gives them a false courage which is stripped NAKED of them once they are not in huge numbers and anonymous. Independent people who stand up BY THEMSELVES without hiding in a fucking crow like you do are not of this breed: they are not afraid of facing a hundred cowards like you, and they can face down a hundred of you easily... THAT is the kind of person that self-sufficient communities will attract: not wimps like you.
Wimps like you are terrified little fucking mice: demanding to be told what to do. Independent self-sufficient people who create their own self-sufficient communities are NOT LIKE YOU AT ALL... So you can throw away your silly fantasy of anyone EVER accepting you into such a community. Self-sufficient communities accept people who DO not ask what to do. Terrified little fucking mouse asking what is the 'next step'... the next step for you is to stand up and be a man. The trouble is... you will never stand up... ever
Is there a crowd around you cheering you on and supporting you when posting all these rants? Or are you sitting at the computer by yourself?
They are not rants: you fucking piece of shit: they are the hard cold facts.
What you will NEVER understand is that being one of the herd is not to be admired: in fact it is to be despised.
The people who are protesting on wallstreet are NOT like you: they are individualists who have the guts to stand up against corruption
So I take it that's a "no" to the cheering crowds.
While I already know, more or less, everything you have posted already, and I agree in princliple to prretty much everything you are saying, it's your delivery that I find hurts your own professed cause.
Insulting and belittling people is what I do not agree with and your obvious, irrational anger condradicts your own message,. If you were as smart as you say others are stupid you would know this. I mean if there were a ccommunity of people who live as you suggest, you would be the meanest asshole in the community, and no one would be able to stand being with you for more than a few minutes at a time before they had to step away from your poisonous negative anger.
Looking at this thread, and the amount of time and effort you put into ranting and putting down everyone who engages you, it is clear you are spending a lot of time alone in front of the computer railing at the world, and accomplishing little besides regurgitating Zeitgeist ideas of a moneyless society mashed with a vomit-like mixture of all the various You-Tube conspiracy movies. Ii can Google up everything you are saying and get a better presentation without the bad Lewis Black channeling.
You are stilll looking for a Hitler to lead you: you fucking imbecile. Hitler had plenty of cheering crowds, so he MUST have been right... correct? asshole.
German in the 1930's were just as stupid as you are today: they gauged the rightness of something by how many cheering crowds there were.
I'm telling you the OPPOSITE: you fucking imbecile. I'm telling you that the only way you can lead a happy healthy life is by treating EVERYONE as your equal: I am telling you that EQUALITY is the on;y way people should treat each other. I'm telling you to get rid of ALL leaders. I'm telling you to become a self-sufficient individual who does not NEED to be led by anyone. I'm telling you to grow up and stop acting like a fucking bleating sheep looking for its master to be shorn of all your freedom and intelligence and affluence. Stop being a follower and stop looking UP to anyone and to looking DOWN at anyone.. Teachers are not to be looked up at: they are to be learned from. Learn this: Take the best and leave the rest.... then make that best BETTER than it was. That is how you learn: by discarding everything that doesn't work and only keeping that which does work.
exactly what do you agree with?
You have not agreed with one single point I have made
Which points do you agree with?
All you asses do is DISAGREE. Which is why you are a bunch of asses... Now if you AGREED upon anything: you would be intelligent people who cooperate with each other: you do not do that. All of you are is negative: all you do is make negative disagreeing posts. If you were positive: you would pick out the positive in every post I have made and focus on the positive. Instead, all you do is focus on the negative. Then you start making personal remarks which have nothing to do with the positive points I am posting: then you accuse ME of being negative. When it is YOU who are negative
You NEVER NEVER AGREE WITH ANYONE
If I am wrong then prove it:
show me one point you agree with me:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/what-is-chris-hedges-beef-with-moveonorg/
Here is a post where I agree with someone.
I agree with your assertion that we need to evolve to a moneyless society if we are going to effectively deal with greed as a societal problem. Getting rid of money would get rid of a lot of the base motive for crime.
with 'someone'? with WHO? You never agreed with ME about this. Why NOT?? eh? I will repeat what I said so you stinking ways off avoiding being honest is exposed: "show me one point you agree with me ON MY POSTS" all right? Not in somebody else's post: not with your grandmother, not with your dog, with ME
What? Did you stop reading after the first sentence?
you said "You NEVER NEVER AGREE WITH ANYONE"
I provided you a link demonstrating that to not be true.
Then you said "show me one point you agree with me"
and I said - "I agree with your assertion that we need to evolve to a moneyless society if we are going to effectively deal with greed as a societal problem. Getting rid of money would get rid of a lot of the base motive for crime"
That specifically agrees with your main post and several points you have been making throughout this thread.
You are a frothmouther who spazzes in his replies before reading the entire post the other person makes. You seem to value fighting on these forums, even with people who are on your side.
Oh... so you agree with my main points but you do not agree with me...
NEXT idiot.
So, when will you start. What will be your FIRST step.
there are no steps you fucking idiot of a donkey
Horse manure. Haggling and fighting over who has more money only makes you MORE selfish and MORE addicted to MONEY.
IS everyone in America as dumb as you are??
Horse manure. Haggling and fighting over who has more money only makes you MORE selfish and MORE addicted to MONEY.
IS everyone in America as dumb as you are??
Wow you're a very rude person. I'm not saying that you're idea is wrong i'm just saying it can't happen very quickly. Where are you from? Is everyone there as big of a rude asshole as you are?
you are missing the point again: the point is this: if you want to improve your life: you cannot do it in the system you exist in.
You, as all other deadbeats, have absolutely no interest in the OW movement: now go away and play with your video games like a good little dweeb.
Fuck you dude, I'm not a dead beat and i don't even own a fucking video game system. I know i can't improve my life under this system I'm a Marxist you obviously missed my point AGAIN.
Marxism is dead: go away and spew your obscenity elsewhere
Marxism is not dead at all sorry dude, in fact sales of Karl Marx and Engels works are skyrocketing all over the world, even here. It's not Marxism that was dead it was Stalinism which should be dead, Marx however, still alive and kicking. All your righty buddies seem to think so too.
Wrong: Marxism was dead before it ever began; it was never implemented and it never will be. As a Marxist you should be against anyone who tries to occupy wallstreet: now go chew on that for a while like a good little idiot and don't come back. The fact that you define yourself by the ideas of your sworn enemies is a hint of just how empty your brain is. Also, I am not a rightist or a leftist: I am against ALL ism's: a fact your empty mind will not be able to handle: goodbye.
Haha. Thanks for the laugh. You obviously don't know what Marxism is, you're just another ignorant cunt thinking he knows everybody. Go chew on that for a while like a good little idiot and don't come back. I guess you're one of those "isms are bad, i'm so original and cool i'm beyond all the isms." Haha. You are a joke to me.
bye-bye... don't let the door hit your ass while you're leaving
Haha, nice, original.
it is one of the oldest phrases in posting
Actually I have a good amount of money saved and am not at all interested in abolishing the monetary system we have, however I do support the OWS protesters.
It seems that you should spent a little more time reading up on the OWS movement than attacking what you THINK it's about after a superficial glance.
you are another idiot.I am not attacking the OW movement: I am telling these people that they can live BETTER LIFE than you can with all your fucking money and, what's more...they can do it WITHOUT all your fucking money which you hoard selfishly only for your own self-interests and gratification. stop twisting the facts; rich people like you are disgusting when they try to rationalize their own personal wealth and the fact that they are not willing to help another human being in need
Perhaps they'd be better off living as you suggest in a future where the tides of deregulation and the alienation of Americans (by America) doesn't change, but I like to be more optimistic than that.
Also, if by "hoard selfishly" you mean I work my ass off and by "for your own self-interests and gratification" you mean that I frequently contribute to progressive causes (including OWS) because I'd rather see Americans succeed instead of being a rich man living in a shithole, I agree
Your attitude exposes you; as just another smug arrogant 'I'm okay Jack' idiot.
Your suggestion of living in the future is where you should be: don't clutter up this forum with your junk here; your guilt is not our propblem: go donate money to the Carnegie institute. He was so fucking guilty after making his undeserved fortune by illegal filthy practices: he tried to whitewash his sins AFTER he got rich illegally. If you worked your ass off for more than 15 dollars an hour: you either were cheating someone, or in a RACKET that cheats people, or you had more man hours than most people do to earn an honest l;iving;: now get lost
I think it's pretty obvious that it's you that doesn't belong in this movement. At least, any more than the Libertarians.
You not only do not belong with honest working people who have lost their homes and jobs:: you will NEVER belong in the company of humane people
I concur.
so? you agree... what are you going to DO about it? Words without action are a waste of time
Currently I'm typing up a "Ultimate Plan for Change" including solutions to our fundamentally broken economic, political, social, religious, cultural, philosophical, and spiritual beliefs.
It will contain what I (and many others) believe to be selfish reasons to implement such fundamentally disturbed beliefs (things are only complicated more than neccessary because agendas are trying to be hidden), why they don't work, and solutions that I faithfully believe will create a peaceful, loving, and prosperous (in all aspects) world.
Other than that, I am currently working for The Man (part-time job) to save up enough money to sustain myself on my journey to Nuevo Yorka. :)
I am so happy. You have no idea how happy I am that people are starting to change and DO something about it instead of feeling helpless and even angry at the idea of change.
So, what are you doing, brother/sister?
About the "Ultimate Plan for Change", I'm trying to mass send this work to anything, anyone, and everyone that can do something important with it.
If you have any links or places which can actually use my ideas, please provide some.
Thank you.
Dude I am a socialist and you are crazy, even in Maoist China and Stalinist Russia they realised that a money free economy doesnt work
I am not a dude: you are: and the Maoist and Stalinist systems of totalitarian dictatorship have all gone belly-up.. dead in the water.. EXTINCT: like you will be very soon, and anyone else who tries to follow the extinct ideas of extinct systems
I am not a Maoist or a Stalinist, Stalinism was a term invented by Trotsky that was meant to insult the USSR while not hating communism and I was using it the same way. And while I disagree with the Maoists where have you been because they are still in power.
Stalinism is not communism. The term 'communism' is a complete misnomer: in fact it is the opposite of what the red Bolshevik killers created. Before the Bolshevik revolution: More than 8o% of the peasants in Russia already owned their own land and lived in communal villages and farmed their land communally.
The Bolshevik revolution was invented in order to DESTROY this new powerful grassroots culture of Russian peasant communistic way of life: the Bolsheviks KILLED communal living and destroyed all the communal villages and lands of the peasant and drove them into gulags: into what they called 'state farms' but were actually labor camps and death camps where the peasants were systematically brainwashed, starved, intimidated and terrorized by Stalin's bunch of thugs and the KGB and the hoodlums of the polit-bureau. To call a political system that destroyed all Communism in Russia communists is a parody, a grotesque twisting of the historical truth: a complete reversal of the historical truth, The Stalinist Bolsheviks killed communism in the east.... The propaganda machines in the west CALLING these fucking killers and destroyers of communal living 'communists' REVERSED THE TRUTH, and brainwashed all the west into assuming that any kind of 'communistic society' is evil.... when the truth is the exact opposite. The most decent and healthiest society you will EVER be fortunate enough to live in is a COMMUNAL SOCIETY which can also be called a COMMUNITY or a COMMUNIST form of living... these terms all mean basically the same thing.
Furthermore: the Bolsheviks were not Marxists. That is another misnomer: another propaganda label: trying to wipe out the intelligent analysis of capitalism which Marx wrote by marrying it to a totalitarian system which was the opposite of what Marx envisaged as the answer to capitalism. But MArx did not supply any model to replace capitalism with. All he did was rant about how bad it was: not how to replace it with something better.
It is societies that are centralized: it is huge impersonal masses of millions of people packed together which is evil: Not small kolhozes or communes or communities... This is one of the biggest historical lies ever sold to the masses who are brainwashed into believing that communal living is somehow 'evil' or 'bad' or 'can't work'... Because of this negative brainwashing: now today, 99% of the public is prejudiced against creating a small community where you are self-sufficient, have no leaders, and are all equal to each other... Yet this is EXACTLY how you were designed to live and it is EXACTLY how you should live. Any other structural form of human society is wrong, bad, and prevents you from experiencing any happiness in your life.
Why are you suddenly resurecting an argument from more than a weak ago, I dont believe that communism is the perfect way of life, why do you assume I am some idiotic strawman who has no real grounding in reality. Have you read anything of what Marx actually wrote because I have and he sure as hell gave an alternate model in fact he wrote several thousand pages on what the alternate model is and how to replace capitalism with it no his model was almost nothing like the way the Leninists and the Stalinists ran it. It actually bears far more resemblance to Trotskyism than any of the other factions. I do think that Stalin turned what could have been a good opurtinity to improve peoples lives into a pile of crap. There are very legitimate reasons to question how you can improve a system instead of just saying that because one example of an idea was bad if that where the case then we should throw out democracy because of what happened during the French Revolution.
You're missing the point again: You are living in the past; I am not trying to 'improve' the fucking system which is what you are speaking of: I am saying get rid of it: ALL of it Replace the old system with something that is new: something that has never been done before in the history of civilization: and that is creating self-sufficient communities that do not use money and do not trade or barter. IN other words: that means throwing your fucking Marx and Engels OUT also. Goodbye.
You are an ignorant DUDE: now go away and read up on the history of how the culture of Maoism died after he died and was replaced by a mixture of totalitarian military rule coupled with capitalist corruption
Why do you have such a problem with the word dude? Anyway while the Chinese do no longer follow Mao's belief to the letter they do in general keep the spirit of Mao's beliefs alive through the brutal oppression and massive corruption.
study history: I am not here to educate your ignorance
Even if a party no longer follows the system that it preaches it is still that original party in the end, the party Mao put in place where Maoists that same party still rules China thus the Maoists are still in power in China even if they arent actually following what Mao said.
get lost
What have I done that in any way warrants this kind of reaction all I did was state a general view of my opinion and one semi inaccurate statement about modern history.
I have no reaction go away
My wife would be upset with anyone giving me hugs and kisses and I don't want a guy doing that anyways. Good grief.
That is exactly why you are a miserable lonely, middle class, brainwashed scared little thing. Because your wife treats you like her own personal property: you are not given the freedom to have any life of your own. She keeps you on a short leash. She treats you like her pet poodle:just another toy pet. You are the common hen-pecked, emasculated husband of the 20th and 21st century. completely dominated by your wife: she wears the pants in your family and you KNOW it.
The other part of your brainwashing is the idea that love involves SEX. Only homophobic males who are insecure about their masculinity have problems with touching another male. This is a common cultural disease in your modern culture. The fact is: you have been deprived of all touch your entire insulated spoiled life, and you have been desensitized down to the point where the only touch you respond to is the lowest sexual urge to fuck something or somebody. You are not alone... hundreds of millions of modern brainwashed apes have the exact same cultural hangups and prejudices as you do. Your entire sick consumer culture is based upon the religion of not allowing ANYTHING to touch you physically. That is why cars are the top status model for you skin-dead humanoid robots. Lock yourself into a steel-glass bubble and do not let the earth touch you; don;t let the air touch you, don't let any human being come even near you: splendid total isolation and insulation from all living humans and all living things: Let only rubber tires; insulated by compressed air, touch the earth, don't even let the the rubber touch living earth: cover the living earth with dead concrete first... then you have the perfect civilized insanity only: dead things touching other dead things... pure death: dead things: plastic, glass steel surrounds you: your safe little bubbles of security ... this is why you are so paranoid of anything touching you. Nothing affects you. Nothing touches you. This is one basic sickness of your society and you do not realize it.
You've got some serious issues dude.
NO: you have. The trouble is: you have no words and no thoughts about the issues which plague you
Hugs and kisses definitely won't work, neither will a barter society. Let's learn from Bhutan, a country that has defined metrics to create a society based on happiness instead of GDP. Gross National Happiness over GDP! They are doing it overseas, we can do it here.
You're so fucking stupid you aren't aware that you're agreeing with me: Communities based upon hugs and kisses gives you a gross national product of HAPPINESS: Bhutan? I'll look into this.
One problem, Pretty people become rich and ugly people become poor! This is almost a twisted page out of Zeitgiest or the Venus project. I like the idea of a world without greed, but we are so far away from it. I think we need to begin a collective movement of getting off the grid. Join together to make solar collectors/steam engines/cars that run on compressed air. Imagine mirrors collect sunlight to boil water to run a steam engine which could provide electricity, hot water and heat your house. The electricity provided could compress air and run your car. How can humans be sooo smart and soooooo incredibly dumb at the same time. No, no, this is a bad idea, fossil fuels will last forever, right?
That is the ILLUSION your commercial society sells you: the superficial prettiness of these rich people hides the ugliness of their inner souls. What you don't understand is that there are two kinds of beauty: INNER beauty, and OUTER beauty... To develop an exterior beauty that is truly beautiful: you must begin by creating an INNER beauty first... this inner beauty will then radiate out and your outer beauty will match your inner beauty so you will be beautiful on the inside and on the outside. I've known and dated some of the most outwardly beautiful beautiful girls... and when I found out how UGLY their inner souls were: I did not want to touch them with a 10,000 FT pole. That's how revolting these pretty people actually are, once you really get to know them.
You are right! You DO need to get off the grid and start a collective movement by living without using money... But you, like all the unenlightened young people of this machine-age, can't even dream of a society that doesn't have fancy machines. The truth is: you don't need machines to live a happy healthy life. This is the BIG LIE you have been sold. You have been sold that the only kind of 'progress' is the invention of more machines, and people becoming more like mechanical machines. I am telling you to go in the OPPOSITE DIRECTION that your commercials are pushing you.... Instead of buying a luxury Mercedes Benz car that costs thousands of dollars and uses gasoline and destroys the eco-systems you live in: replace all machines with HUMAN activities that do not need machines or tools.
excellent writing, no really, but you forget one thing: Jealousy between people stays ... with or without the money-thing.
You are assuming that the crap you are living in now will stay with you after you change how you live. You couldn't be more wrong.
Let me explain some basic things to you. The only reason jealousy even exists is because in your money society: human beings have been deluded into an imaginary abstract religious belief of selfishness called 'property'. The idea that you 'own' ANYTHING is a civilized delusion. The idea of basing any kind of human society on the assumption of the right of 'ownership' was why millions of years ago, humans began owning each other as slaves. Then they 'domesticated' animals: which means breaking their spirit, destroying their freedom and their right to live as they are designed to live: IN nature, free... just as you are designed to live... and turning them into slaves: working for you... Which is exactly what the 1% of society are doing to YOU right now. They are forcing YOU to work for THEM so THEY will get all the money while you stay POOR and dependent on them for everything.
Learn this! Once you take away the idea of ownership: you also take away all possibility of jealousy. If you don't 'own' anything, you CAN"T be jealous of anyone or anything.because then there is nothing to be jealous about.
Creating a community that has NO jealousy is easy: just base your community upon the principle of universal equality. Once you treat every living creature on the individual basis of equality: from your family, to the every squirrel, every insect, every tree, every plant: Then you will realize that your job here on earth is to make friends with all living creatures: not kill them and make them hate you and fear you. Not make enemies of all the living things on earth by destroying their habitats and killing them and using them and butchering them and slitting their throats.
Learn this: there are good and bad people: do not treat bad people like you do good people! Treat each person as they deserve to be treated. Equality destroys jealousy. The point is... once you get to really know someone as equals: you can't become jealous of them. If they turn out to be a better person than you are in some respects, you can admire them, and use their living example to improve YOUR OWN humanity ... If they turn out to be LESS than you are as a human being: then you can despise them and have nothing to do with them as they DESERVE to be treated. If they turn out to be your equal, and share your human values: you can make FRIENDS with them.
The point is: if you deal with all living creatures AND human beings as your EQUAL! You CANNOT TREAT THEM WORSE THAN YOU TREAT YOURSELF. You cannot try to possess them or own them or treat them as if they were some kind of toy: to be used USED only for your amusement and then thrown away the instant they don't do what YOU want then to do... Because if you try to do that: they will throw YOU away and you will have NO MORE FRIENDS.
The point is... MONEY creates a false front of false INEQUALITY: which all of you have been deluded into thinking that millionaires and billionaires are BETTER than you are because they have more money. Let me tell you something about millionaires. I've painted INSIDE the houses of some the richest people in Hancock park and Beverly Hills and Santa Monica and the Hollywoold Hills in Los Angeles... I've spent days inside their houses... I've seen how they live... I've seen how they treat their servants, and how they treat each other and how they treated me... AND I WOULD NOT WANT TO LIVE LIKE THEM FOR ALL THE FUCKING MONEY IN THE WORLD...
Why? you ask... Because I found OUT... that these 'rich' people are not happy people.... they are MISERABLE SKINFLINTS... all they care about is their fucking mansions and their fucking money and everything they can BUY with their money. I am NOT jealous of all the millionaires and billionaires I got to know over 30 years of painting their fucking houses inside while they squabbled with their servants and treated everyone else like shit except themselves: that is not how to live, and that is not how you should live and you should not use these shitheads as examples because what you see on TV is NOT how they actually are in private.
People who deal with others as their equal do not know WHAT jealousy is. Only spoiled babies who have been given everything they ever wanted grow up to become 'jealous' of others. I have lived for 64 years... and I have met and know people who were better than me in some ways, and people who were worse than me in some ways, and people who were equal to me in some ways... and I have NEVER EVER felt this thing you call 'jealousy' I have felt honest admiration, or honest disgust or honest liking; but never jealousy... And the reason I never felt jealousy is because I never HAD this stupid assumption that I 'owned' anyone, that anyone I knew was a 'possession' which I had 'exclusive ownership' of. Do you understand this? OWNING things, buying and selling things, money... its all BULLSHIT.
I prefer to build my moneyless economy on oral sex: the gold standard of sex based currency systems.
then you will only get prostitutes and whores and sex addicts and drug dealers and drug addicts and alcoholics and freaks to build your economy with... by all means do this! It will relieve us decent people of the need to get rid of you.
Stop the madness!
If you try to re-take the farmland, the police and other security services will harass and brutalize you. So that's the end of part 1, unless you're prepared to fight these security services either physically or politically.
Hugs and kisses have diminishing marginal utility. I would do a lot for one kiss but hardly any more for 100 kisses. I certainly wouldn't work in a field all day for a few extra kisses.
Hugs and kisses from pretty girls are worth more than from everyone else. So again, you have a problem with your currency.
So there's a genuine response to your essentially laughable proposal.
First: you are confusing love, respect, happiness, and trust and community with SEX. Sex is not what I am speaking of. Second: you have no conception of what I am speaking about because you have never lived in a community that is not trying to rob each other and cheat each other and compete against each other for MONEY.
Third: you have never experienced being loved. You have never experienced cooperating with ANYONE, you have never EARNED the respect of anyone, you have never even wanted to do anything but conform to what everyone else around you is doing. Dweebs like you are destined for extinction and that is a good thing.
Wow. You know nothing about me, and yet claim to know everything.
You don't think sex motivates human beings?!
And I would love for there to be more smaller, cooperative communities. But it's naive to imagine that the people in power are going to give you anything or even allow you to take what is yours.
I know what you tell me: which is all I need to know about you. I know you are a scared little coward who is afraid of all responsibility and can't go outside the house without your mommy wiping your asss for you before you leave the house. I know you have never experienced love and you have NO understanding of sex at all. I know you have this insane spoiled-baby assumption of the world that everything in life shall be GIVEN TO YOU, and that you are not willing to fight for what is yours because you have never EARNED anything that is rightfully yours. I know you are so silly and uncreative a dweeb: you can't imagine people CREATING their own community, and BUILDING it without asking for help. Your idea that some great army will descend upon ordinary people creating their own communities and 'take it away from them' comes from you watching too many TV shows and too many movies filled with fake SEX and fake VIOLENCE. I know you are much too naive to be ABLE to IMAGINE anything at all. IN fact you are a brain-dead unimaginative robot who can't understand anything. Tell me something more of yourself so I can tell you more about what I learned from your responses.
That is the reaction of a brainwashed passive spectator: you would 'love to see'... But you yourself would NEVER actually do it. You don't realize it but you've already been programmed to fail. Those that do: win. Those who only watch: lose out on everything
I've got news for American cowards like you... Libya is being freed of a dictator because young people in Libya have the courage to fight for their freedom and DIE for it if need be... they have the courage you do not have You hopeless farts in America are MUCH too rich and spoiled to EVER fight against your owners. This is why you country is doomed... You have nothing to fight for. You have nothing to LIVE for... AND... you also have nothing worth dying for EITHER. That is how empty and worthless your society and your culture and you are right now.
I like kiva.org - it's a non-profit microfinance organization, where YOU (instead of you depositing in a bank and then the banker invests that money for you) can directly invest in developing a third world country.
Also, http://www.community-exchange.org/ is interesting, though I'm not sure how well this would work out in reality.
Or maybe we could just force the banks to leverage less. Definitely not 30~40 times.
Definitely not hugs and kisses though.
wrong: what makes you just as evil and greedy as the top 1% is your avarice: you greedy need for MONEY. Until you learn the difference between money and love: you will continue to be a spiritually empty soul. Until you learn to care for living people more than you care for money and the machines and ease it can buy you: you will continue to be an isolated freak addicted to your computer.
The greed for money is really the greed for water, food, clothing, etc. in third world countries. Money is simply a tool for trade. It's powerful only because you can do any kind of trade with it.
No: you can't gt respect with your money: you can't be loved for your money: you can't buy friends with your money; you can't buy happiness with money. You can't even buy health with money.
If you're sick, alone, have no friends, and are miserable and have tons of money... what good does all your money do you for you? My point is... take away all the crap your money buys you, and what do you have left of your life? The answer is NOTHING. Which is why the message of Jesus living without money is still preached... BUT NEVER EVER ACTUALLY FOLLOWED.
Try using your brain for once. There are countless creative ways and alternative lifestyles that do not use money. If you create a SELF-SUFFICIENT community that makes its own clothes and grows its own food: you have suddenly stop being a slave. No more bosses! No more 'yes sir' No more lying to your boss. No more hating your job. No more JOB PERIOD! FREEDOM! INDEPENDENCE! The independence of telling ANYONE you don't like to GO FUCK THEMSELVES.
I've worked as a self-employed contractor for over 30 years: and now I can't even THINK or act like a fucking 'yes sir' wage slave, because I don't take shit from ANYBODY. I work for people I LIKE and who like ME. I tell people who want to hire me I don't like... to GET LOST. Sure I didn't make a ton of money... but I enjoyed my life and I had NO headaches, NO worries, NO problems, NO ulcers, NO stress except the hard lessons I learned about which KIND of people to work for and which KIND of people to avoid.
You don't want to LIVE like this? Why? because MONEY will give you a better more meaningful life?... Bullshit
money can't buy all of that but it sure can buy water, food, clothing, etc.
i'm sure you like to stick your hand out and ask your friends and loved ones for some of those but somewhere down the line somebody had to produce those things.
you are missing the idea. I am not speaking of a bunch of welfare bums expecting free handouts from people who work hard for a living. I am speaking of creating a community where EVERYONE WORKS for their living. NO SLACKERS ALLOWED. If you don't want to contribute? OUT YOU GO, and you will not be allowed back either.
What I am speaking of is simple: by voluntarily helping people in a community which is based upon VOLUNTARY COOPERATION; you are just doing what you already are doing: cooperating with other people for goods and services which you are not producing. The only difference is that you are not doing it for MONEY. You are doing it because you ENJOY HELPING OUT PEOPLE WHO WILL APPRECIATE YOUR HELP.
This is obviously superior to any money economy for a simple reason: it creates MANY things your money economy does not create: it creates good will between neighbors. It creates GRATITUDE: it when you help someone... because they have to ASK for your help... and you have the freedom to refuse that help if you so decide. THIS IS A HUGE MORAL DIFFERENCE IN HOW YOU LIVE! You no longer serve any boss: you no longer are forced to do what anyone tells you to do. You have the freedom to create and uphold and practice the HIGHEST MORAL STANDARD OF LIFE without compromising yourself WHATSOEVER.
For instance... if some junkie or drug addict comes to you for some heroin... are you going to voluntarily of your own free will help him? Junkies sell stolen good to pay for their drug habits... the people who deal with them have NO morals and NO social conscience at all: they just want MONEY.
What THIS does is that is weeds OUT OF YOUR COMMUNITY all the undesirable elements... automatically. PEople who are slackers, people who do not appreciate the help given them: soon find themselves UNWELCOME... and when they are refused anuy more help after the commnunity has discovered what a slob this person is: they will LEAVE OF THEIR OWN ACCORD: simply because they will discover that they cannot SWINDLE or LIE or CHEAT their way through life anymore ini YOUR decent community...
OUTSIDE of your community, the MONEY economy does not CARE what kind of morals a person may have or not have... but in YOUR community which does not run on money... people DO care who they deal with for a simple reason: because the relations they have with all other people are on a level of PERSONAL MORAL, ETHICAL HUMANE STANDARDS OF LIVING.
Am I getting through you yet?
how would you know if someone was genuinely incapable or just slacking?
How? By living with them: knowing them personally.: through personal contact. How old are you anyways? Every child in a classroom knows who are the slackers and who are the hard workers, who are the smart ones and who are the idiots. Every office knows who is the real brains and who is a slacker. Every employee of every company knows who are the real workers and who are the slackers... are you living in a dream? Have you ever had contact with anyone outside of your computer isolation bubble station?
where i work it is impossible to tell. in professions without any physical activity, only the worker himself knows why his brain is not working.
that describes the anti-social isolation culture you live in: divide and conquer: As long as you are socially isolated: none of you can get together and organize against your owner and masters. You're a nice little obedient slave, aren't you?
wrong: what makes you just as evil and greedy as the top 1% is your avarice: you greedy need for MONEY. Until you learn the difference between money and love: you will continue to be a spiritually empty soul. Until you learn to care for living people more than you care for money and the machines and ease it can buy you: you will continue to be an isolated freak addicted to your computer.
Actually, you have a choice:
You can have policies that work.
OR
You can continue to soothe yourself with mental masturbation that leads no where.
Stop listening to careerist politicians that entice you with rhetoric and promises!!! VOTE for ACTION, RESULTS!!! CONSEQUENCES!!
END THE FED!! RON PAUL 2012!
(And fuck the hippies)
You're missing my point. What it all boils down to is haggling over MONEY. If you can't see any further than money: you are doomed to lose because the top 1% have nearly all of it and you have almost none of it, and they will not give you any of their undeserved wealth. As long as you expect leaders to fix your problems FOR you: you will lose. As long as you try to work within the system you will LOSE because the system is so corrupt can't be fixed. Until you begin thinking outside the box labeled MONEY: you will LOSE.
If I had a million dollars, I would get plenty of hugs and kisses and then some. I guess I CAN have it all! LOL!
Wrong. You would get hangers-on, and greedy little pigs sucking off you, lying to you, cheating you, using you and all of their hugs and kisses would be FAKE.
If you ever grow up and experience what love is, you will know the difference between what is genuine love and genuine liking and genuine friendship... and what Stalin and FDR had: which was a fake moment for the cameras.
Wrong. You would get hangers-on, and greedy little pigs sucking off you, lying to you, cheating you, using you and all of their hugs and kisses would be FAKE.
If you ever grow up and experience what love is, you will know the difference between what is genuine love and genuine liking and genuine friendship... and what Stalin and FDR had: which was a fake moment for the cameras.
I love everything you've said here.
Thank you... now DO something about it. The people on the streets are actively resisting the takeover of America by the richest most criminal gang of billionaires on the planet by becoming homeless bums... living on the street in New York. Suddenly! They found out that many other people who don't have the courage they have also feel as they do...! They are being given food and clothes and all kinds of support by ordinary people. The eroot reason this demonstration of resistance against the ruling elite of the world is working is because ordinary people are voluntarily COOPERATING with each other... without COMPETING AGAINST EACH OTHER! Without trying to make MONEY off it. Without trying to make a PROFIT.
Now take this idea of voluntary cooperative effort one step further... instead of being a wage slave and working to make money to buy products which only feeds the entire economoic system of profit-capitalism get together and pool all your resources and create your own self-sufficient communities which do not need ANY of the services or products which the corporations of the world try to sell you.
nof wasting all your positive energy trying to fight huge impersonal banks and corporations haggling over money... use all this cooperative energy to CREATE communities which do not USE money and are INDEPENDENT of the 1% who own most of the money and the wealth. This can be DONE. All it takes is people to wake up and realize how easy it is to change how you live if you just make one basic change at the ROOTS of how your society functions.
Amazing. Thank you for bringing this line of thought to OWS, I think you're absolutely right. Ending money is the one step towards building a truly civilized and peaceful world.
Then go to New York and talk to these young people and DO something. If I could afford to go to New York I would. Go an tell them how they are wasting their lives fighting greed when they can use all that cooperation and good will to create communities which everyone will ENVY and admire them for creating something better than the love of money. Where do you live I live in Montreal and I'm not a US citizen. If you're US citizen: are you going too get involved? or not?
I am involved, I'm in Europe (Netherlands)
GOOD! Which rally is going on there... which city?
Thank you... now DO something about it. The people on the streets are actively resisting the takeover of America by the richest most criminal gang of billionaires on the planet by becoming homeless bums... living on the street in New York. Suddenly! They found out that many other people who don't have the courage they have also feel as they do...! They are being given food and clothes and all kinds of support by ordinary people. The eroot reason this demonstration of resistance against the ruling elite of the world is working is because ordinary people are voluntarily COOPERATING with each other... without COMPETING AGAINST EACH OTHER! Without trying to make MONEY off it. Without trying to make a PROFIT.
Now take this idea of voluntary cooperative effort one step further... instead of being a wage slave and working to make money to buy products which only feeds the entire economoic system of profit-capitalism get together and pool all your resources and create your own self-sufficient communities which do not need ANY of the services or products which the corporations of the world try to sell you.
nof wasting all your positive energy trying to fight huge impersonal banks and corporations haggling over money... use all this cooperative energy to CREATE communities which do not USE money and are INDEPENDENT of the 1% who own most of the money and the wealth. This can be DONE. All it takes is people to wake up and realize how easy it is to change how you live if you just make one basic change at the ROOTS of how your society functions.
I actually lived in an intentional community for four years. I finally had to leave because these communities are generally not friendly to people with kids, and my husband and I wanted to have kids. It broke my heart. In the end, the "leftists" were just as bigoted as everyone else. Now we live in the country and try to have a little homestead, but it sure is lonely.
EXACTLY: the 'intentional community' you entered was still based on MONEY and exclusive ownership of property. All you need to do is find other couples your own age: YOUNG people who also have children.. I can tell you one thing you already found out: the RICHER people are: the more SELFISH they are regardless of what part of the political spectrum they come from.
The real problem with society today is that if you want to raise children: you're supposed to be RICH enough to buy and won property and a house, in in today's economy: it takes your entire LIFETIME to save enough MONEY to BUY a house, so by the time you can afford to have children: youi're too old to have them. All these RICH exclusive 'intentional' communities are SELFISH communities that are not based upon hard work and giving and sharing ANYTHING with their neighbors. The spoiled babies of today are so spoiled rotten that if someone doesn't eat the exact same food YOU eat, and wear the same cloths and have EXACTLY the same attitude and culture YOU do: they don't want to even know them. This is the disease of your culture: everyone including you is searching for a CARBON COPY of themselves. There is no tolerance and no understanding of ANYONE who is not EXACTLY like they are.
Get rid of MONEY and start sharing... and you will have a completely different experience with people.
How I get it! The product of a deprived childhood!
How I get it! The product of a deprived childhood!
1.000% wrong: I had the best childhood any child has ever had in the world:... it is YOU who had a completely deprived childhood.
That;s your defense mechanism: you reflect and project your own truths instead of absorbing them.
In fact I'll prove it to you.... You tell me what kind of childhood you had, and I'll tell you what kind of childhood I had: and the whole forum can compare our two childhoods to see which one was better..... OOPS! You're still a child: you haven't even finished grammar school yet... caught lying again... OOPS!
Turak! you can do better than this! Your previous rantings had a malevolent consistency. What you have written here is pure lunacy.
Get lost you: your deprived childhood is your problem, not mine.
Actually it was an income-sharing egalitarian community. The problem with many places like this is that people are mostly college-age, because these are the people who are willing or able to take the time from "real life" to explore this type of option. So then these young people only really want to live with other young people who make them feel "cool." And they think a "commune" is about being high and having orgies and stuff, so they don't want to have kids around, because they would have to alter that environment.
I haven't totally given up - my husband and I are hoping one day to find a good group of solid people who are (for lack of a better term) more spiritually evolved. But it's really really difficult. Most people are so into whatever they're INTO, you know?
Yes: the modern religion of 100% self-gratification. Regardless of what anyone calls their own personal 'culture'' everyone is out to please themselves and you are no exception. So you met the other side of the spectrum: either one still spells intolerance, immaturity, selfishness and spiritual emptiness.
This is the hard fact of your mass-produced culture. I'm an exception to the rule and I know it. I did the opposite of what everybody else did when I was growing up: Instead of consuming I created. Instead of listening to other people's music I began composing and creating my own music, I began to explore being creative:; I began writing, drawing, dancing, playing sports, reading philosophy, reading anything and everything. I was lucky: I had the chance to grow myself up the way I wanted to. I was exposed to many many cultures and environments, We didn't get a TV until I was in high school. I spent most of my time outdoors exploring when I was young...
The point I am making is that in a mass produced society: all creativity is killed and nipped in the bud before it can even grow. I found out that ANYONE can be creative. ANYONE can compose music: ANYONE can create art... After that... I found out that ANYONE can create their own communities. ANYONE can do it... BUT!... before you do it: you have to develop your creativity, you have to have the courage to create something NEW and better. You have to have the vision of something better. And none of you people have that. You're still looking to join a pre-existing community instead of creating one yourself from scratch.
So far, I have not found one other human being alive who has the GUTS to even THINK they can do this... yet I know that anyone who wants to, CAN do it. You want to live in a community and not be alone in the woods: so do I: BUT:... are you willing to look at your entire life? And weed out everything that is bad and only keep the best? Are you willing to share your life with other people instead of living in insulated middle class homes?
The point is: before you can find something better... you have to want something better: and since you can't even imagine anything better than what you already had: you have no goal, no vision of what to create and how to build it and grow it. Until you start to write down exactly what it is you want and don't want: you will only be shopping in the civilized supermarket of alternative housing projects. If you KNOW what you want: you can plan it and build it and create it. If you're just shopping, I have news for you: Steve JOBS: the richest asshole in silicon valley already spoke the truth about your culture and consumers He said and I quote: "It's not the business of consumers to know what they want.' IN other words: you have been spoiled all your life by other people deciding for you what you are supposed to want, and then creating and inventing what THEY want you to want and putting ONLY those things they want you to buy on the shelf... and giving you the illusion that you ever had a chuice... when you never did have a choice. If you can't think outside the consumer box of what is being offered to you: yoou will never be able to create for yourself anything better.
I put up a simple plan that anyone can follow: what do I get? Wishy-washy bullshit: people who have NO intention whatsoever of doing away with their precious fucking MONEY system... when any of you could successfully solve all your problems in one simple plan. You want a better life? Create your own self-sufficient community without using MONEY and your problems will be solved. Do not follow my suggestion, and keep on wasting your time searching for what doesn't exist because it hasn't been CREATED yet? Then go ahead and waste your life: I am looking for people who have the guts to CREATE what they want. Not shop for what they want.
I enjoy your posts and outlook, which has inspired me to take a look at myself and remember to keep on creating as I experience and learn. I have been very interested in starting a self-sufficient community and I have started by gardening and helping out on farms, but I always run into an issue- lack of food during a harsh winter or a bad year of crops. If there are many other self-sufficient communities full of compassionate people, perhaps they could then offer assistance. Producing a lot when times are good and canning is another option. Otherwise, the only other solution I can think of is to maintain some of our modern infrastructure to trade goods with partnering communities on the opposite hemisphere with some support coming from year round producers as well. What do you think about this issue?
The answer is simple: EAT LESS FOOD. The idea that you need to fill your belly every 4 hours is a bunch of garbage. Scientific research has already proven ini dozens of laboratory studies done throughout the world that the less you eat: the healthier you are and the longer you live.
MY POINT is this: you are still stuck inside the consumer culture which you are trying to get out of. Try living WITHOUT consuming anything. Consume as little as possible EVERY DAY OF YOUR LIFE. Going on regular fasting programs is one of the quickest ways to increase your metabolism and heal yourself and make you a healthier person. Think and act outside your box. People in India have already proven they can exist on nothing but air and water. The only trouble with this is they sit on their asses all day and do not move: something most of this robotic humanoid species is now copying. By refusing to be active,: you automatically become a victim of all the active evil-doers in the world. I got down to one peanut a day for while... and I was not sitting around doing nothing. If I can do it: anyone can.
I already do all of that. I am a vegan and I eat simple, delicious meals with mostly dried beans and local vegetables from the farmer's market or from my house's garden when they are in season. I ride my bicycle every day (which brings me such happiness) to get around and rarely ever use the bus. If I ever buy anything such as a coat for winter, I get it used. I don't need material things to make me happy. I love the simple things in life and I am working to build the community you mention. I am currently volunteering by working to start up a P-Patch in my neighborhood as a way to involve more people in growing food while also building community. While doing all these things, I do see a potential to create an autonomous and sustainable community, but my post was simply made in order to express some concerns and ideas on dealing with the problems that a community may face while farming.
Farming? You're still living inside the consumer box of self-gratification. Food food! food! stuff your faces stuff your faces! worry about food!
try focusing on other living creatures: they do not have farms like you do
Food is a fundamental necessity for us and other animals. I'm not worried about food, but you do need it to survive and be able to appreciate and love other humans, animals, and the Earth. I get incredibly joy from obtaining fruits and vegetables from plants with my own hands. I suppose foraging is another option, but it doesn't sound like that would fit with the idea of an autonomous community. How do you plan on obtaining the basic necessities of life? You've thoroughly trashed my proposal of cooperating sustainable farming communities connected using some sort of trade.
food is NOT the fundamental issue for you or for any other living organism on earth: happiness and fun and play is what you are MISSING in your life: food is just a rotten substitute for the emptiness in the rest of your soul and body. You can be HAPPY and HEALTHY without eating food: in fact the less food you eat the happier and healthier you are: you haven't listened to a single fucking thing I've told you... like all computer freaks: all of you have empty hearts empty brains empty souls and no creativity and no life experience
And the pathetic thing about you is... you don't even know it: you're not even aware that you are 90% DEAD already, you don't even know what a human emotion is... walking zombies; pretending to be alive, dead souls:
ARE YOU ALIVE? no you are not: and you're not even aware of it.
sustainable farming systems and trading are all part of the money economy. I don't want to trash anyone who is actively trying alternative ways of living and changing how they live. What I am telling you is that if you want to improve your life and the life of all living things on this planet: you need to look at the ROOTS of what you are doing: the origins of it all: the history of civilization, where it came from, how it was corrupted and why.
For instance: the conventional explanation for how money was invented and why it ws invented is a total propaganda lie. If you're interested, I can send you some information on this which will give you a better historical perspective on the origins of money. The ancient saying that money is one of the roots of evil is correct: but this trite truism does not explain WHY it is evil and where the roots of this evil come from... How does one establish a private correspondence on a public forum? If you want I can give you my personal e-mail if that is allowed
Instead of a paper economy: create an economy based upon hugs&kisses"
LOL> That economy would cause so much social conflict in every community it was instituted and in certain countries would result in a lot of murder and bloodshed.
actually, i think that the current system is what's resulting in a lot of murder and bloodshed... although, i'm sure if we switched over to a "hugs & kisses" based economy, we would see a rise in std's... there's always a catch people. i don't know what a condom is, but if i did, i'd tell ya to wear one. ;)
the catch is in your mind: the catch is you are disconnected from everything except resignation, passivity, specatorship, paranoia, terror, fear of the unknown, voyeurism, staring at 2-dimensional screens for the rest of your existence: the catch is in your automatic programmed negative response to anything that is positive. The catch is in your giving up before you even try. The catch is in your pointless comments, the catch is in idiots who surf the web for distraction and do nothing else, the catch is in you: in how you have been brainwashed into what you are now.
I couldn't have said it better so maybe you would like to look at this?
http://occupywallst.org/forum/maybe-this-will-get-the-support-of-mainstream-medi/
I don't think Wall Street will accommodate us... perhaps the mid-west?
That is the point: you are playing their game: you are trying to occupy their zone of elite exclusive wealth and you will not be given one cent of that money which you so envy and want for yourself. The answer to your problems lies in creating your own community and spitting on their money. This way you become a better human being, and this way you can RIGHTFULLY sneer and spit on all of the rich assholes who are greedy little shits. That is how you destroy these scumbags. Not by trying to bel like them, but by NOT being like them..
Have you ever considered that perhaps there is no such thing as free will?
Or wondered why there were so many Native American tribes in North America, or so many clans throughout Europe? It's because during the lean times there was always some faction that would rise up and say, I don't need your stinking money, I don't need your support... a schism would develop and then that one faction would march off to start their own clan, with these words: "Goodbye cruel world, I'm going to create something better for myself." That's exactly what's happening here - it's a genetically programmed response. Altruism is a beautiful thing.
Since you believe in no free will: you are an enemy of all the activists on the street making this movement a worldwide uprising : goodbye slave
You are but a tool of evolutionary reform. There is no free will. The ability to dissent lives in all of us.
You are contradicting yourself: Inane freaks who are incapable of any sane logic are filling up this forum with their illogical crap: like you are doing.
You cannot dissent without free will.
Your statement is an oxymoron and you are a total fucking moron
bullshit: I am a human being because I have human emotions and I am humanly creative and humanly intelligent.
You are a fucking robot, a tool: a dead soul.
I am a living soul out to kill every dead soul I can find
Why not try to wake them up instead of trying to kill that which cannot be killed?
The soul is eternal, this reality is not.
they can be killed
so can you
No free will... nope, none, nada... you're just motoring along exactly as biology tells you to.
wrong move along freak; your shit is clogging up the internet
Finally, I hooked a live one.
No: only insane sick freaks like you could even imagine such a thing
Try to imagine something that isn't insane: I bet you can't
Yeah right, think about this.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/maybe-this-will-get-the-support-of-mainstream-medi/
What's your point? copying somebody else's URL does not tell us anything worth listening to: get lost... oh: you're already lost:... the exit is right there; push the escape button
Ok for you some copy and paste. But if you want to discuss this issue please follow the link and post there.
They say we don't know how the system works. I say they don't know how systems in general work.
In science old theories get replaced by a new theory if the new theory explains the things of the old theories (and even more) better than the old theories. But it can take a long time before the new theory becomes mainstream because they always face the problem of dogmatism in the establishment (think of Gallileo).
This new theory I found, by doing some research in the web, is called 'debitism' and the principles and consequences are very easy to understand if you are not blinded by the things which you consider to be facts. But the fact is, facts exist only if you can prove them by logically deducing them from given facts. And the most things you consider as facts are only beliefs deducted from beliefs.
So here is an introduction in the theory of debitism for preschool kids (things in brackets to make it easyer for the experts to understand):
Money (and such things as expected money or how you may call this) is created if someone (banks or so) gives a credit (or something equivalent) to someone else. And if someone pays back his credit the money gets destroyed. So the amount of money is always equal to the amount of debt, which is also true if you take interest rates (and such things) into account. Therefore money is just the proof of the promise of someone to pay back his debt. And the rest of the economy is just about how getting this piece of proof to pay your own debt plus the interest rate.
The problem which we face today is that someone must first take a new credit (which we can't because everybody says we have too much debts) before we can pay back our debts plus the interest rates. And the 1% can't give us the money either because their money is our promise to pay our debts and interest rates (so we need to bail them out which is only some sort of new credit). So we first will have to pay our interest rates before they can give us the money to do this. You see how messed up the system is?
So if we really want our system to keep running we are forced to make higher debts and not lower them. But even then there will be a point where the system collapses. And as history shows people don't say it was the systems fault. They say it was the fault of aliens which we have to kill and start building up the system again. From time to time they changed the face but not the structure. And the history got repeated many times.
And now a little bit theory of systems in general:
A system is called stable if every limited input leads to a limited output.
Real existing systems always tend to get into a stable state. Think of a pressure tank: if the pressure gets too high the tank explodes and the system is stable again.
So, if you don't want a collapse as the solution for the problems we face you should better educate yourself and others about debitism and start a public discussion about a stable system where everyone can live by his believes and where we all can freely care for our needs.
And stop insulting the movement beeing a bunch of lazy ignorant anarchists. The only lazy ignorant anarchists I see is the man behind the 1% and his supporters who profit from keeping people blind and uneducated and for whom a human life means nothing.
And I would be glad if one of the economy experts can proof the theory of debitism to be wrong. But before you can do this you will have to study this theory and understand it because that is the way how real science works.
And don't believe anything I said. Maybe I am just the man behind the one percent or one of his supporters who tries to disturb the public awakening.
Learn to think and educate yourself. Internet is not just for commerce and porn.
Feel free to use this text as you like. Maybe someone will print this on toilet paper for the 1%?
And to anonymous: if you want to hack the system distribute this.
Welcome in the next millenium.
You said only one thing worth reading: "Learn to think and educate yourself."
The rest of your post is total and I mean TOTAL garbled GARBAGE and misinformation.
. The problem is that the ruling class is way ahead of you in this respect: they have been systematically dumbing down the American taxpayers and labor force for over 70 years with free TV and cheap pizza. until the only educated people left in America are those rare few who take the time and the trouble to re-educate themselves and DE-program themselves of all the propaganda they've been spoon-fed all their lives. The number of educated enlightened people in America is getting smaller and smaller every year. That is your REAL problem and why expecting any social change on a national level is a waste of time. And why the only practical solution is the creation of small self-sufficient communities made up of the few enlightened people still left in the world who are intelligent enough to organize themselves.
I don't know if you realized, that people all over the world are starting to wake up from their brainwashed state and wonder how it came to the situation we are facing now. In the past, when the economic system was facing a collapse, the strategy was making a monetary reform or accusing someone and starting a war.
But in our times, where people all over the world, are connected, it is very difficult to blame it on the aliens. And the people know that a monetary reform also wouldn't really change a thing and that the root cause must lie somewhere in economy.
But they also know that socalism also is not what they want because they want to keep their freedom to choose what to do and what to think and what to say.
So they occupy the places and discuss how we can avoid the expected global crash and reinstall some sort of a real democracy and start realizing that even the experts don't have a clue how to get along with this.
So first the masses need to be De-programmed and RE-educated. But if you leave the reeducation to some charismatic person who would love to sell you his kind of BS we will only get another kind of hidden slavery. So the best thing would be leaving the reeducation of every person on herself so we can create a new global democracy which is really by 100% of the people for the people.
And where did I post misinformation?
I only introduced to the new theory of debitism which i think is a better and easier explanation for economy than tradional theories which are based on the exchange of goods. And I told what the implication of this theory is. And as this is a real existing theory, which most of the people on the world don't know about, this is information. MISinformation is what you get in the mainstream media.
And if you expect the people to start thinking and educating themself they first need information and not misinformation.
And I kindly ask you to discuss my post there where I posted it so we can keep the redundancy low. Because redundancy is not helpful in a conversation which shall lead to a point. Redundancy only leads to never ending discussions, as you can see in politics and mainstram media, which is mainly used to avoid getting to the point.
And the rest of your answer shows only a symptom of our economy and it is discussed over and over again here in the forum and it is just a kind of blaming it to the aliens and therefore is redundant.
So stop trying to hide the piece of truth in the masses of BS and join the discussion where it is supposed to be. Namely here:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/maybe-this-will-get-the-support-of-mainstream-medi/
Your theory is bullshit. The reason the financial system is totally corrupt is because it is controlled by a bunch of thieves and crooks and hoodlums and gangsters. Read the history of how the Rothschild banking family took over PERSONAL control of the major national banks of Europe and intermarried into the aristocracy and other banking families. Until you do your research: your theory is garbage.
I did my research. And the economy we are used to, trading one thing for another, is older than Rothschild. Rothschild is just a symptom and not the root of our economy which evolved over a long time from the principle of giving things only if you get something equivalent in exchange.
This principle was good and worked in helping the mankind to survive 'till now. But now the people don't feel very well by the system this principle established and want to talk about how to change it.
If you like hunting ghosts feel free to go on and try to convince the world that Rothshild should deserve death penalty. I wish you good luck in accomplishing this.
And if you realize that you are fighting against windmills let the people figure it out by themselfs and join us here:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/maybe-this-will-get-the-support-of-mainstream-medi/
Of course the problem is older than the Rothschilds, you imbecile: they just happen to be the PINNACLE of the problem right now. They just happen to control most of the world's money systems and wealth right NOW. The Jewish invention of USURY is an ancient evil which is thousands of years old. Duuuh!
That is the POINT you fucking jackass:... IF you get rid of money: you ALSO GET RID of evils, ancient evils which have been preserved for thousands of years in one single effective clear, healing action! Do you want to waste thousands MORE years trying to get rid of all the evils which the practice of usury has created over thousands of years? Or do you want to get rid of ALL of these problems EASILY AND INSTANTLY? The answer is: you should screm out 'YES! YES!" because the logical thing to do is alo the easiest, the best and ther QUICKEST way to solve most of your problems... But you evil negative assholes REFUSE to admit the simple logic of the answer to Global Capitalism>> which is NOT MORE GLOBAL TRADE PERIOD... NO MORE fucking tomatoes from Mexico or pickles from Poland! Grow your own fucking tomatoes and your on fucking cucumbers you lazy assholes and don't give me ANY bullshit about it can't be done because all of you km\now damned well that it CAN be done.... ALL you need to do is wake up and DO it instead of sitting on your fucking useless consumer asses all day doing NOTHING. Get off your fucking lazy asses and DO something you freaks
The, "evils," which you say were created by usury are antecedent to the practice of usury and antecedent to the use of currency as something that stands in stead of the value of something else. I don't expect you to understand that because you are stuck in the fairy tale land existence of your own private thoughts.
You have not researched a fucking thing: get your filthy lying bullshitting ass out of here: a 3 yr old baby knows more about the history of money than you do: now fuck off and get LOST
A 3 yr old baby better understands the theory of debitism and what it implies than you. Because a 3 yr old baby is still interested in learning new things because it is not blinded by his beliefs which it consideres as facts.
And stop insulting people. Verbal violence will solve nothing.
Oh, sorry. I think now I got your point. Welcome to the club.
You have not researched a fucking thing: get your filthy lying bullshitting ass out of here
it's fiat money, just like all other curruncies on the planet. backed by the faith in our govt. if you really think it is corrupt, barter for everything you need, instead.
you';re not listening to me: fuck off
this is why all of you fucking freaks will go extinct: when you do not listen to other people: they will NEVER listen to you
^There is no 'we'... There's just millions of lemmings like you, with an intelligence lower than a lemming. Learn to think for yourself and educate yourself and stop being a lemming.
Yes, I don't want the fluids of others forced upon me.
Trust me: you won't: ever
There have always been five interwoven economies, but the balance between them changes with culture and technology. See: "Five Interwoven Economies: Subsistence, Gift, Exchange, Planned, and Theft" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vK-M_e0JoY
Not to mention arrests for being a sexual deviant. I mean in today's world little 5 year old's are being labeled for being affectionate and kicked out of kindergarten.
there will always be a rationing device. if its not paper money it will be gold, or rocks, or cocoanuts. Let me play the dismal scientist here: As soon as hugs and kisses become currency they will become scarce and people will find a way to hoard them.
"You have a choice: you can love money or you can love humans: you can't do both. Wake up."
Really? You mean I have to choose? ..............................
You wouldn't happen to know of a way to have sexual intercourse with money would you?
BY no choosing: by not acting: you become an ENABLER of the corrupt active swindlers who are robbing you of your future: you can sit on your fat ass for the rest of your life. When they come to repossess the chair you are sitting on and throw you out on the street: then you can snigger at the idea of being forced to choose between GOOD and evil.
The real problem with all of you emotionally dead, emotionally bankrupt little fools, is that you have never experienced love in your loveless lives: since you do not know what you are missing: you do not know what you have missed, and what you will never have.
Your lunacy, the idea the IDEA! that doing nothing: sitting on your ass: doing NOTHING... is in some way... superior to all other alternatives... is so hopelessly stupid, it is beyond words to describe how pathetic you are. Millions of idiots like you: sit on their asses all day watching TV and looking at the internet... that is exactly what the 1% want you to do... they want you to do NOTHING. The result is obvious: you become a zero: you are a nothing: a meaningless blob, incapable of love and so dehumanized, deprived and depraved: you do not know what love is. Sexual self-gratification is the pornographic culture you were born into and it is this exact pornographic culture which you spew out onto the internet. You are a product of the culture which you were born into... Garbage IN... garbage OUT. Now go and snigger at your own cultural values and see how miserable that makes you feel.
Define LOVE then... What should we do to experience /share it? Where do we start? Or stop?
I think the issue you bring up is essential to the inner revolution that is required for REAL change. Instead of fighting the 1% in the outside world, we should be aware that we actually ARE the 1% in some way and that we're pursuing the demands of the ego and that we should transcend it. But then, inevitably, we venture on (or ascend to) higher grounds. This is where we rightfully belong , and where we'll find that we're all connected and part of One. One Love... From there, there's only a great desire to share and to give... It's the only way to heal this world. And, granted, all of this is just very frightening to the ego...
Love is the sharing of yourself with all living creatures on earth as your EQUALS. Love is TOUCHING other living creatures... and letting them touch you. Every living creature you touch with your basic honest INTENT of friendliness, curiosity, happiness, inquisitiveness, admiration, honesty... has the right to touch YOU also.
You cannot do this if you don't like yourself! Evil people cannot fake this. Anyone who has an evil intention towards living creatures will not allow them to touch him or her. If you do not eat the meat of butchered animals and eggs and you do not kill and harm living creatures, and do not hate or fear other living creatures, and do not have irrational phobias about living creatures: you can make friends with not only all the good people of the world who are positive like I am... but you can make FRIENDS with all the living creatures of the earth...
THIS IS THE POINT.....
What kind of life will you have if everything that is ALIVE is your friend and not your enemy? Will you ever feel 'alone' and 'unloved' if every living creature on earth is your friend and likes you? You would have to lock yourself into a closet to avoid any contact with living creatures if you really wanted to be miserable and alone... and even then an ant or a spider would come in and ask you why you want to be so alone and miserable?
What happens... if wasps and bees land on you just to walk around on your arm or hand to say hello and explore you? What if moths and butterflies land on your nose and walk over your face to find out just why you stuck your nose in front of them and said 'hello!' Do you know how many times a little insect lands on me or walks onto my computer screen trying to figure out just what the hell I am doing? Why do they do this? Because I say hello to every single one of them, I TALK to them as my equal. I don't talk down to any living creature and I don't talk up to them either: I treat them as my equal...
Because obviously nobody ever thought to treat them like this, this has funny repercussions... Once I helped a wasp out of a predicament. He was batting his face against a plastic sunroof trying to get through to the sunlight on the other side. I put my hand up and he landed on it... Then I climbed down the ladder and held my hand out over the porch railing... so he could fly to freedom... You know what that little soft wasp did?! He didn't fly away... he walked over the top of my hand for a while... puzzled about just who I am and why I was helping him. I wasn't afraid of him hurting me because I DID NOT HAVE ANY INTENTION OF HURTING HIM... Do you know how delicate the feel of a soft wasp is, walking on the top of your hand, do you know what it feels like?.... it feels GOOD, it feels nice... it feels friendly After a while of walking over my hand smelling me... getting to know me, he flew away.
2 weeks later on another job: on the top floor this time but working inside the building: not outside on a parch... I was down on my knees at the back door that led out to the 3rd story exterior porch and I had to open the back door to finish doing the job... And guess who was sitting on the door sill, waiting to be let in? The same wasp I had helped to fly away to freedom two weeks ago; that's who... So I held out my hand again, and he WALKED onto my hand from the door sill:... he or she didn't fly onto my hand: he walked from the door sill straight onto the top of my hand... as if he had knocked on the door and he was standing there, waiting for me to open it. I was busy with my other hand working the brush, so I let him walk over my hand all he wanted while I was working because I was in a time crunch and I didn't stop working... It was a nice feeling, him or her coming by to say hello... then he tried to walk under my hand instead of under it and he fell off and landed on the floor... I put my hand down to the floor and told him not to do that anymore: 'stay on top of my hand, don't go under it' I told her... She walked around on my fore arm and hand some more as I was working with my other hand, then after a few minutes, she flew off outside... the door I had opened was still open.
It now turns out that every time I work anywhere outside... A wasp comes by and says hello. This has been going on for a year now... A wasp comes by when I'm working and I say 'hi' to it and it zips on past me. Apparently wasps do not understand someone working for something called 'money'. They don't understand why I don't just fly away like they can and do... Obviously it can't be the same wasp I made friends with... She must have gone back to her nest and told everyone about this strange person; this huge animal that was not an enemy of wasps, but was a friend. How this got around to other wasps I don't know. All I know is every time I'm on a job outside, one of them flies by and pauses to say hello.
Do you understand?.... When you treat living creature decently: they will treat you the same way.
Thanks for your lenghty reply - beautiful story about the wasp... I'm just like you, always saving little creatures, I talk to them, wasps, spiders, frogs, toads, flies, thirsty dry worms in the middle of the road... :) I'm aware that everything around me is alive and conscious. Last week there was a crab wandering about on the parking lot behind my house, it raised it's claws to defend itself, at first I thought it was a huge spider. Figure it got dropped there by some big bird... So I took a bucket with a bit of water, picked up the crab, asked him what on earth he was doing there and brought him to a lake a few miles away. Now every morning there are crabs on my doorstep waving at me and humming... nah kidding. But I really love animals. I'm also trying to be a vegetarian. And there's another thing ot two that I want to say to you. Till then good luck and don't be too angry with people (although you have a right to be) - they can't help themselves being ignorant. Try to be patient and forgiving...
The earth does not have time for tolerating a species that is massacring every living thing on this planet. Mass murderers are not to be tolerated or forgiven. Until you and every single living person on earth recognize the sanctity of your ownlife extends to every other living creature on earth: none of us deserve to go on live destroying LIFE. The INTERNET abstraction of forums is another way of removing all immediate facing to the ugly truth about yourselves.
Wonderful story, thank you.
It;s not a fucking 'story' it's how YOU could be happy if you shut off your stupid machines and touched living people with your hands. I am sick and tired of people who sit and watch and do NOTHING. You are one of them.
I was genuinely thanking you for sharing your experience as I have had similar encounters myself. I am trying my best to take action. I have gone to my local protests. I volunteer to work to build a community P-Patch vegetable garden. I write poetry when the inspiration arises. I use technology to help me learn and stay engaged as I read philosophy and discuss it with a good friend in CA over Skype. I am trying and I know it is not enough, so I will try more.
turak,
Sounds like you're experiencing the combined effect of a bad case of the DT's and cabin fever turak. Aren't there any liquor stores open up there in the Yukon right now? Come to think of it buying that stuff (or anything for that matter) must be something of a problematic transaction for you.
So what do you do go in there and give the bartender a couple of kisses hoping he'll give you a fifth of your favorite fix? Hopefully he's amenable to this type of a barter system.
You have to explain the practical details of your lifestyle before you can expect anyone in this forum to accept your pronouncements as real.
And I say that with much love for you turak!
First: I do not drink alcoholic beverages. I am a vegetarian. I do not eat pizza or cheese or meat or eggs or milk. I do not live in a cabin and I am a Canadian.
The practical; details of changing how you live are very simple: get rid of all the addictions you have which are making you unhealthy and keeping you sick. If you can stop drinking booze and stop eating junk food: you can also discover that there are better places to meet people than in bars. People who frequent bars are the lowest scum on earth; they have no education and no intestinal fortitude.
I am not speaking of a barter system> but a system which will humanize you and clean your mind and body of thee countless polluted toxic crap which has been imprinted and programmed into you by the commercial system you were born into. But in order to do this: you need to first realize how sick you are NOW, and develop your own personal motivation to heal yourself of your many ills. From what you have said so far on this thread: I don't see any chance of this happening...
Unless you lose your job and are thrown out on the street and do not have any more MONEY to buy your booze and pizza with.... then MAYBE... just maybe... if you are forced to go without alcohol and without food... your body chemistry will change enough so that you will not rob someone just to get your temporary drug fix, and your mind and soul will be able to stop acting like a snide-cynical redneck.
Instead of concerning ourselves with what we eat, why don't we first be concerned with how we are and how we react to one another? If we can't live with each other it will not work. If we cannot stand ourselves it will not work. We must first fix ourselves and then we can begin to live harmoniously together in a society of moneyless, tradeless, creditless, financialess society. We can work together!
http://occupywallst.org/forum/eliminate-the-monetary-system/#comment-286840
Yes. But not everyone. Not millions of beer-guzzling, pizza-eating rednecks, not thousands of millionaires, not billionaires, not anyone who makes a lot of money, not all of civilization: only the few people you can find who think like you and are pro-active and are willing to commit themselves to creating their own self-sufficient community.
Your expecting all the hundreds of millions of Americans, all the hundreds of people who have lots of money to agree with you is a Pollyanna fantasy, as can be seen by all the negative reactions on this thread.
But you haven't rid yourselves of all your addictions. How can you preach to others that is what they should do when you can't even do it yourself. So as a result its hard to believe you have the remotest clue of what you're talking about.
It is good though, that this forum provides for you an outlet for your hostility however misplaced that hostility may be. Pity the walrus's of Nunavut if not that weren't the case.
Kindest regards,
MossyOakMudslinger
I have rid myself of MOST of the harmful addictions which all of you more-addicted slobs are still addicted to. So don't try your bullshit with me. I am not preaching anything. I am telling you what I have learned in MY life by what I have done. That is not preaching: that is living and expecting other people to do the same as I do. If I can do it: anyone can. Do you understand this? People who do not practice what they preach can be scoffed at... but not people who practice what they speak. Get this through your empty brain.
First: I do not drink alcoholic beverages. I am a vegetarian. I do not eat pizza or cheese or meat or eggs or milk. I do not live in a cabin and I am a Canadian.
The practical; details of changing how you live are very simple: get rid of all the addictions you have which are making you unhealthy and keeping you sick. If you can stop drinking booze and stop eating junk food: you can also discover that there are better places to meet people than in bars. People who frequent bars are the lowest scum on earth; they have no education and no intestinal fortitude.
I am not speaking of a barter system> but a system which will humanize you and clean your mind and body of thee countless polluted toxic crap which has been imprinted and programmed into you by the commercial system you were born into. But in order to do this: you need to first realize how sick you are NOW, and develop your own personal motivation to heal yourself of your many ills. From what you have said so far on this thread: I don't see any chance of this happening...
Unless you lose your job and are thrown out on the street and do not have any more MONEY to buy your booze and pizza with.... then MAYBE... just maybe... if you are forced to go without alcohol and without food... your body chemistry will change enough so that you will not rob someone just to get your temporary drug fix, and your mind and soul will be able to stop acting like a snide-cynical redneck.
Hi turak,
Nice to hear from you again. I hope all is going well with OccupyQikiqtaaluk. You and that walrus sitting in your kayak outside the mayors igloo. It must get pretty lonely. No sun. Sounds tough.
I am happy to hear you are achieving some success overcoming MOST of your addictions. Which ones have you conquered you didn't say in you're last post? I see you are still having problems get your synapses to fire in the correct order. Hopefully at some point you will move that deficiency to the top of the priority list. The medical crew in Liberty Park has recommended that administering yourself an ice cold douche a couple of times might go along way in helping suppress some of the inane symptoms you manifest in this forum.
Hopefully you can get some of the suggestions provided here through your thick skull so you can get yourself on the road to recovery once and for all. Taking the geometry of the situation into account you might consider shoving them up your ass in order to achieve the quickest result.
In any event I wish you a quick recovery and look forward to time when you are back to a more lucid frame of mind.
Best regards,
MossyOakMudslinger
You do not make any lucid sense. People who do not make any sense are not listened to. goodbye
HaHaHa, very cute satire, wait was that serious... It sounds more like 1% of the populus would agree with this and the other 99% would continue to steal; even the hugs and kisses or more if their depraived human minds could fathom it, which they could!
You have no conception of what the Rockefellers and Rothschilds are treally like. Your only reaction to the truth is to perceive depravity into everything you read and see. Try stealing illegally a hug or a kiss from me... go ahead:: try it. See how far you get trying to steal kisses from people who know you for what you actually are..
What you have no conception of is that the rich 1% entire rationale for existence depends on their having more of everything you want, and having everything which you DON'T have. I know you are much too stupid to comprehend this, but the ultra rich are jealous of everything the lower classes enjoy. Once you poor ignorant people wake up and begin to enjoy and share the true values of LIFE... which the ultra rich cannot ever steal from you, and once you EXCLUDE THEM from your society: they will die of their own misery. What you will never understand is that the ultra rich are incapable of sharing anything with anyone. Only poor people who have nothing to lose by sharing share anything with others. This is why Jesus became richer in spirit than the richest emperors of Rome: he shared his life with everyone he met. This is hwat the rich 1% cannot steal from you: you idiot... The trouble is... you are so sick and already brainwashed and so spiritually empty: you've never shared anything with anyone, and you don't know what sharing is, and you don't know how to share anything with anyone. The word itself is alien and meaningless to you. You are one of the wannabe 1% who will never share anything in your empty life.
The point is, dummy... love and trust cannot be stolen like money can be stolen. SHARING Love and happiness cannot be piled up and stored in a bank vault like money can be piled up. Hugs and kisses cannot be accumulated like money can be accumulated. Only dead useless things can be accumulated: not the living things which are the most precious moments of SHARING of your life. That is why you should get rid of money. Money is only a vehicle for greed. But since you have never experienced the happiness of sharing: you haven't the faintest clue what I'm talking about. Go to wallstreet and talk to these young people... THEY will understand what I'm talking about. Not you.
You choose to snigger at these universal truths. I suggest you take a LONG look at yourself: and ask yourself exactly why you have such a despicable attitude towards life.
It's come from so many fringe movements but I have to agree that love and social relationships are important.
How did you go about coming to this conclusion?
This is the conclusion Buddhist monks have arrived at. There are brain scans of them meditating and they are literally the Olympic athletes of happiness. Look it up. But it's so paradoxical that they have nothing to give materialstically except maybe the food that they grow and spiritual services they can provide.
Hippies. Ditto.
This is what people in the new age movement lectured about. The need for love and service to others. Law of one, Alex Collier, Hidden_hand on Abovetopsecret.
Raves. Electronic music festivals. People on ecstasy and meditating on electronic beats. Same conclusion.. then it fades more and more once they are back in regular society.
Other societies which value human relationships more so than material goods. I've seen people in slums in Asia and Africa with just the basics food, water and shelter - and music - have so much more fun than our wound up and wounded society here at home. There are deinitely problems - malnutrition, alcoholism and religious conflict that I've seen, but keep a straight head in these places and you can lead a very fulfilling life.
I've met people from several of these walks of life and experienced it alongside them. I am not happy where I am in my hometown in Canada and going back to the countries I met earlier. The weather has a lot to do with it but it's also the reduced pressure to own cars, 20 year old $350,000 500sq foot condos (yes, really in Vancouver) and other junk that we don't really need. This greed to own and possess is surely creeping up in these places, and I hope they do not get warped as we do.
I've seen conservative commentators disparage bongo drums. I don't want to be judgemental but that's when you know that those are the ones who have lost touch with their humanity. We are born to love, dance and experience social relationships with others.
I am sure Bill Gates and Warren Buffet arrived at this conclusion. Billions of dollars given away and to be given away. Even if it is on their terms, their schedules, and their schedules.
so what led you to this?
go ramble somewhere else and lose yourself like your words lose themselves
go ramble somewhere else and lose yourself like your words lose themselves
i'm really wondering what led you to what you've been writing about
64 years of life experience. 25 years of creating art, composing music, and dancing. Years of playing sports. Years of playing outside as a child. Years of no TV and no computer. 50 years of reading books. 45 years of writing. Living in more cultures than anyone has ever lived. 40 years of thinking and searching for answers. Being the luckiest person ever born on this earth> being lucky enough, so lucky that I never lost my sense of wonder. It took me 60 years to figure out what is wrong and what is right with the human species.
Now all of you can have my experience and wisdom and logic for free because I do not sell myself and I do not sell the truth. Truth cannot be bought or sold; it can only be sought after and discovered But all of you are so brainwashed and corrupted by the commercial advertising for-profit society you were born into that you automatically reject anything that is not SOLD to you.
I've got news for you: everything that is SOLD to you is BAD for you. The only things that are GOOD for you are the things which you discover and learn by yourself and by your desire to become a better human being. If you do not have this basic intent: then you will never become a better person, you will become worse, and more corrupt.
The only time you learn something is when you EARN your LEARNING by your own effort to learn. BECAUSE YOU HAVE NOT DONE THIS: you are being punished by having the LEARNING you should have listened to, now being rammed down your fucking throat by me for FREE: without you earning any of it. This will give you a VERY UPSET STOMACH and it will sit in your bowels and in your soul and mind and heart until it screams out at you to follow the truth of your dead, dying weak heart. People who consciously refuse the truth are BAD people.
appreciate the response. i lived abroad in two developing countries for two years. not everything is rosy but definitely happier here with less than I am back in Canada. Will consider what you've said.
you are a fucking AVOIDER, a DENIER, you are a DEFENSE MECHANISM AGAINST HEARING THE TRUTH: you have tuned OUT every single relevant truth you ever heard in your entire fucking life: you live inside a s elf-invented bubble of wishful blind imaginary bullshit.
You will never EVER in your entire LIFE ever search for the truth and what's more, you will NEVER FIND IT
That is your fucking problem: not my problem: now go suck on that and look at yourself and ask question YOURSELF.
Exactly. These go along with that thought:
Things we can do now, on an individual level-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXdmNFNqaQc Idea for a new "economy"-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIMy0QBSQWo
Explanation of how we got to this point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX1N3opw5eI
Wrong. People need to come together and act as one cooperative socially organized organism. This is already happening on the streets where occupy wallstreet protesters are camped out on. What these people on wallstreet are experiencing is a sense of community, a bonding and sharing of common goals and ideas and life which no middle class American can ever hope to attain. Living isolated lives in your isolated middle class homes has robbed all of you of the very idea that such a thing as a community ever existed.. None of you have ever experienced living in a community of people who are close to each other and share everything with each other as equality and on a basis of equality.. The closest thing to this was when Jesus shared his life with 12 disciples. They slept homeless on the streets also, and were the better for it. Only when people shut off their computers and come together will there be any change, and you cannot come together as a community locked in your computer isolation chambers..
Okay, I thought we actually had more in common to agree upon and I don't disagree with you. Sorry for any confusion.
Not big on economics, huh?
You are wrong: I understand economics very well, and you do not need money to live a happy, healthy life. The exchange of mass manufactured goods for pieces of paper is not economy: it is an abstract system based upon wasting, polluting and destroying everything you use and touch. The idea that modern people cannot live without consumption, without exchanging pieces of paper for goods and services is an invention which dehumanizes you. Intelligent voluntary cooperation gives you back your own power of self autonomy and independence: it gives you back your own human set of morals and ethics which you should NEVER violate just to make a lousy buck. Not only that: it weeds out all the stupid selfish ones quite efficiently. And there's an end to the 1% and all the millionaires and billionaires and people like you who cannot live without their sacred pieces of paper. Working for money is how you were suckered into becoming wage slaves working for your masters, making the 1% even richer. What you do not understand is the entire system of capitalism is so corrupt it cannot be fixed. You need to throw the entire system out and replace it with a better system... What you do not realize is that every individual is able to create the kind of society and world they want to live in. Living in a world without money automatically fixes, heals and solves 47,884,784,982 of the world's most pressing problems; thus saving you and the entire human race the trouble of solving and fixing all of these problems individually. As Mark Twain once wrote: "Eschew surplusage' or as the army sarge used to rell his privates: 'Keep it simple, stupid.' Simplicity is the key to all happiness and health....
If technological, medical, and scientific progress were truly mutually exclusive with morality and humanity, this could be a spirited debate. I think it would center around whether or not greedy people exist to ruin the wood cabin utopia. However, I believe we don't have to live in clay and wattle huts to be fully human.
You are wrong because you have bought into the great lie. The great lie of civilized progress had been sold to you ever since you were born. You have swallowed the great lie: that sitting alone in your room in front of a machine is an improvement over how humans lived for thousands of years in the past. What you do not realize is that Science is your mortal enemy: not your friend. Technology is your enemy: not your friend. Dead machines are your enemy: not your friends. the medical industry is your enemy: not your friend. Corporations are your enemy: not your friend. Capitalism and business and profit and greed is your enemy: not your friend. Civilization does not get better: it gets worse. Civilization does not progress: it regresses, it goes backwards: not forwards.
You should not look backwards: you should explore what being human IS first. You don't even know what being fully human IS... you just sense that the machine world you live in today has dehumanized you, and in that you are correct. Until you learn to appreciate the beauty of Nature: you will never understand the basic difference and the basic superiority of living in a beautiful living natural environment, compared to living in an ugly dead artificial environment.
If you were a millionaire and could afford to own a cabin on a lake: you would feel superior to all the poor slobs living in cities and breathing polluted air while you enjoy the peace and tranquility and beauty of Nature without any noise pollution and without people all around you dirtying up the environment. Your idea that what kind of house you live in determines how progressed you are, and how civilized you are is a bunch of modern city-crap. You are a city person. You never experienced living in the country with grass and fields and trees and clean air all around you. If you did: you would never even MOVE to a city, and you would never live in one. Take my word for it: living in the country is MUCH better than living in overpopulated dirty polluted cities.
You have been sold another great LIE: the idea that moving to the largest overpopulated city in the world is a form of 'progress'. It is a regression into living like a herd of lemmings, living like a bunch of ants, losing your individuality, living in the middle of millions of faceless scurrying rats who avoid your eyes and pretend that nothing exists except their fucking cell phones.
Here's the thing, though; as wonderful as that world is it can only support so many. The whole point of technological, scientific, and medical progress is to allow more people to share the earth with us for a longer period of time than we would be able to otherwise. I agree with you that certain portions of the inner city are cramped and unpleasant places, but the idea that throwing us all in the countryside to fend for ourselves is gonna fix anything is just plain crazy.
I don't purport to have read 90% of what has previously been said here (since I've got plenty of books by William James, Theoreau, and Emerson sitting on my desk right now) so I won't suppose myself to be on turak's side.
However, there's wisdom in the thinking that technological progress won't actually improve the lives of humans. It ultimately depends on what improvement means. Longer life? Greater availability of food? What about happiness? What about independence of thought? Reason?
"But lo! men have become the tools of their tools." - Henry David Thoreau
I agree with that. Technological progress, in and of itself, is neither a boon nor a detriment. It's a tool, and like any other tool its ultimate value depends on its use.
I'm undecided as to the value of extending life. But I know for sure how I feel about the value of ending suffering. Technology has the power to do that - the most obvious example is in medical technology. But I would actually say the strongest example, in a less direct way, is in communications technology. Not just in having access to ideas, but also in having the ability to share our stories, tell of injustices, and to meet the world and question the insular dynamics (tribalism, particularism) that societies and their power structures have used throughout history to dehumanize one another, wage war, and cause suffering.
Communication technology is another tool that has great capacity for evil as well as good.
"We are in great haste to construct a magnetic telegraph from Maine to Texas; but Maine and Texas, it may be, have nothing important to communicate."
With the rise of communication technology, we have seen the decline in reading, reasoning, religion, art, philosophy--and instead the religion of Capitalism has taken over our hearts. Television doesn't appear to have any real merit.
"doesn't APPEAR to have any merit'?? gosh! what a ground breaking insight you have there.... Oh, but wait.... You didn't commit yourself to voicing a definite opinion. You left yourself an 'out' by adding the weak, vague adverb 'appear' to your sentence. This is one reason why your generation is doomed to be forgotten. None of you have anything in your own heads which has not been copied from another source. None of you are even capable of certainty: never mind standing up for something you believe in. You don't believe in anything, you don't stand for anything, you don't do anything, you don;t feel anything, you don't think anything. What a waste.
You children should tell everyone how old you are before you begin to discuss anything on a forum. Babbling about things you have NO knowledge of, and NO experience of is a waste of time. You are a product of the propaganda machine that has raised you. You will never understand the society you are living inside unless you experience it. Technology is the mortal enemy of all living creatures and all living humans. You HAVE no access to ideas: all you have is access to PROPAGANDA and bullshit.
The 'progress' you speak of is out of total ignorance. That fucking 'progress' you speak of... created two world wars, it created artillery shells capable of blowing up entire cities. It created atomic bombs capable of destroying the entire living earth. It created nuclear reactors which the nuclear waste which has a life span of 300,000 years is now being stored in the deepest places on earth where it will poison the GROUNDWATER of the entire planet for 300,000 fucking years. It has destroyed 1/3rd of ALBERTA: the Athabasca tar sands projects ahve already destroyed the weather systems of your United States for over 30 years... and you don't even know it. That 'progress' you speak of has overpopulated the earth with 7 BILLION unneeded excess pointless insane apes whose only function is to destroy what is left of the natural eco-systems they depend on to exist. That 'progress' you speak of has killed most of the oceans of the world into death zones where once a complete healthy spawning ground for LIFE once flourished. That 'progress' you speak of has increased the SIZE of the Sahara desert by 1/5th and the sands of death are slowly taking over more and more living acres of green land every day... That 'progress' you speak of has destroyed literally all he natural forests of not only the Amazon, but of Canada, and Sweden, and Europe, and Asia. That 'progress' you speak of has introduced poisonous chemicals into every living organism on earth including YOU. That 'progress'' you speak of has invented the IDEA of mass butchery and mass execution by mechanical machines in slaughterhouses of millions and billions of living creatures FOR YOUR STUPID TEMPORARY SELF-GRATIFICATION in your religious belief that eating dead MEAT is a necessary custom you must follow EVERY DAY OF OUR IGNORANT LIFE.... much like the ignorant peasants of Africa and Ethiopia walk 35 miles every day now... to cut MORE firewood for their stupid traditional fireplaces> because that is how they used to live 3,000 years ago... And even after their entire REGION becomes an arid destroyed desert which will not support any LIFE... these ignorant fools CONTINUE TO DESTROY the eco-systems they depend on for LIFE... and your bullshitting me in your fucking LIP-SERVICE about something you have no fucking understanding of is too tiresome to endure any longer.
Technology does not have the power to end suffering. Technology has only one power and that is the power of DESTRUCTION. What is the most advanced technology of civilization? The atomic bomb.
You are living in the post-atomic, post-nuclear age... pretending that insane apes are not building and manufacturing more nuclear warheads every fucking week in America.
You did not experience the insanity of the last century: when civilization tried to destroy itself twice in two world wars... This systematic insanity of a species committing mass suicide by killing itself It only stopped after two atomic bombs were dropped.
Now... instead of killing itself directly and obviously as it wants to: dropping atomic nuclear warheads all over the fucking place: and having insane people called writers of fiction like Stephen King and Ton Clancy and Dean Koontsmaking millions of dollars sellinig their filth in which: 'sigh...wish-wish-wish...) people can vicariously read about a world of pure horror where mass murders get to kill-kill-kill! And insane people get to Drop bombs nuclear death death death! as a 'harmless' form of entertainment which millions of insane things LOVE to read about.
Instead of insane apes just flat out killing each other into extinction: they have been sneakily killing the earth they live on into extinction, and pretending that they will not be destroyed and killed into extinction along with all the other species mankind is destroying, poisoning and ripping up the earth so no living species has any place to live anymore: that is not progress: that is flat out screaming stark mad insanity... While all of you 'ho-hummers' pretend everything is 'normal' and nothing must be allowed to change. Well guess what? The invention of the atomic bomb already changed your fucking world for the worse because it was the most advanced scientific technology of its day. Th elephant in the room called technology now is busily inventing more deadly poisons 40,000 new ones every year and is systematically poisoning all living creature on this planet... and dumb fucking things like you still spout this 19th century fucking dogma about technology being 'progress'. IN what direction? Into the ABYSS: EXTINCTION...that is the direction of technological 'progress'.
Technology does not have the power to end suffering. Technology has only one power and that is the power of DESTRUCTION. What is the most advanced technology of civilization? The atomic bomb.
You are living in the post-atomic, post-nuclear age... pretending that insane apes are not building and manufacturing more nuclear warheads every fucking week in America.
You did not experience the insanity of the last century: when civilization tried to destroy itself twice in two world wars... This systematic insanity of a species committing mass suicide by killing itself It only stopped after two atomic bombs were dropped.
Now... instead of killing itself directly and obviously as it wants to: dropping atomic nuclear warheads all over the fucking place: and having insane people called writers of fiction like Stephen King and Ton Clancy and Dean Koontsmaking millions of dollars sellinig their filth in which: 'sigh...wish-wish-wish...) people can vicariously read about a world of pure horror where mass murders get to kill-kill-kill! And insane people get to Drop bombs nuclear death death death! as a 'harmless' form of entertainment which millions of insane things LOVE to read about.
Instead of insane apes just flat out killing each other into extinction: they have been sneakily killing the earth they live on into extinction, and pretending that they will not be destroyed and killed into extinction along with all the other species mankind is destroying, poisoning and ripping up the earth so no living species has any place to live anymore: that is not progress: that is flat out screaming stark mad insanity... While all of you 'ho-hummers' pretend everything is 'normal' and nothing must be allowed to change. Well guess what? The invention of the atomic bomb already changed your fucking world for the worse because it was the most advanced scientific technology of its day. Th elephant in the room called technology now is busily inventing more deadly poisons 40,000 new ones every year and is systematically poisoning all living creature on this planet... and dumb fucking things like you still spout this 19th century fucking dogma about technology being 'progress'. IN what direction? Into the ABYSS: EXTINCTION...that is the direction of technological 'progress'.
Your definition of ;'happiness' is already completely corrupted. You actually believe that the only thing which can bring you any happiness is your own selfish desires for what? You are incapable of reason. I am telling you a simple truth which will go in one of your ears and out the other because between your ears is an empty space filled with nothing but bullshit. I am telling you that he only time you will experience any happiness in your life is when you share yourself and your life with other living creatures and other living humans. You think stuffing your face with food brings you happiness? This confirms how shallow you actually are. People who are obese fat and unhealthy are not happy when they stuff their faces with food. They are trying to fill up the inner emptiness of their empty meaningless lives. You think that adding more time to an existence which already has no purpose and no meaning is an improvement? Your idiocy is so dumb is it beyond description. You think that being an independent thinker will make you happy? That is even stupider than your other two idiotic notions.
Thoreau had a deep insight into civilization when he realized that mankind has become the slave of its own tools. You are far too corrupt and too detached from life to ever understand the writings of the books you claim to have. When will you fakers stop posing as intelligent people over the internet? Your ignorance is transparent. Everyone can see you are naked of all reason.
I don't think you even read my post.
I did read your post:
What disgusts me about you is that you have no answer to what I said except an outright lie. This is what is do despicable about people who don't have the courage to be honest: the minute someone tells you something you don't want to hear you run away. The second someone tells you logical facts which you cannot answer you run away.
fend for yourselves? You can't even fend for yourself IN a city, never mind in the country. You have no life experience. Human beings are not 'sharing' ANYTHING with ANYBODY. Or haven't you noticed this before? The reason capitalism is destroying the earth is because everyone is trying to OWN things and keep it all to themselves: not 'share' anything with anybody. Your generation is so paranoid and afraid of everything: they won't even share words with each other, never mind their innermost feelings. try hitch hiking... see how many people will 'share' their cars with you. See how many people ignore you. One out of 10,000 is the average for 'sharing' The remaining 99,999 are totally SELFISH and do not share ANYTHING and do not like anyone and do not trust anyone to share ANYTHING with them.
Hmm. I've lived in the country, I've lived in the suburbs. You're pretty nuts. I like people like that. I don't agree with you on pretty much anything, but you're a funny guy. Cheers!
the reason you don't agree is because you have no brains and no logic. What you will never understand is that stupidity is forever. You idiots have come to the insane level of spoiled rotten self-indulgence that you think you can disagree with anyone about anything... WITHOUT giving any logical reasons for doing so. Because of this you will remain a brain DEAD idiot with a dead soul for the rest of your life.
No, that's not the reason. The reason I don't agree is because the country is too quiet for me. One of the things I find most enjoyable in life is sitting in Columbus Circle watching people live their lives. Don't get me wrong: I also appreciate the majesty of nature, something akin to Kant's theory of the sublime. But ultimately a crucial characteristic that makes me fully human is my ability to connect with other humans - my ability to empathize with them, or for example to disagree with them and still see in them the beauty of subjectivity. I need, on an emotional level, to see them live and change and be on a day-to-day basis.
As such, I find your definition of being fully human - one which involves, apparently, everyone agreeing with you - to be tragically flawed. Thanks, but no thanks. I appreciate that your view exists, but I would not adopt it as my own.
sitting on your ass... all alone: lonely: nobody to share your life with... WATCHING people pass by..... this is your idea of what? Of being an excluded lonely spectator of the life of others passing you by... while you do not participate in anything? Jesus...!
First: you do not know what being fully human IS because you have never lived your life fully. I am telling you that sharing your life with other people in the beauty of Nature is one thousand times richer and more rewarding than sharing your miserable existence with dweebs in ugly, dirty, smelly noisy cities....
You are purposefully AVOIDING my major point, and that is you must share your life with other people: not sit alone on a curb all alone and isolated like you are doing now.
The reason you do not like the silence and peacefulness and quiet of Nature: is simple: You don't like to THINK You don't like to FEEL. You don't want to be AWARE of your surroundings. You have already been programmed and brainwashed into ONE state of civilized existence: and that is... continual distraction from yourself and from your own thoughts and from your own feelings and from your own body. The instant you are not being continually distracted from yourself: you feel uncomfortable; an pervading indefinable fear arises inside you... you start to look for things to distract you from this uncomfortable state of being of quietness and solitude and calmness Being unable to live with yourself and look at yourself and question yourself is simply a matter of avoidance and cowardice. Chanel said it very succinctly: "People who cannot stand their own company are usually right."
No, I love my northern Wisconsin retreat to rid my senses of the unwashed masses....and plug a few deer with my AR-15.
You said: "I find most enjoyable in life is sitting in Columbus Circle watching people live their lives."
Now yo switch the locale to an imaginary cabin in northern Wisconsin: your bullshit is boring
You said: "I find most enjoyable in life is sitting in Columbus Circle watching people live their lives."
Now yo switch the locale to an imaginary cabin in northern Wisconsin: your bullshit is boring
Really there is no way you are real.........much like a carnivalesque character of the round...well played fool!
wrong: you are projecting your own invented caricature
No, That was not me..I reside in Chicago. What I love is that you will sit here 24/7 and self consume, much like a S Crane poem: "a man said to the universe, sir I exists! However replied the universe, the fact has not created in me a sense of obligation." (sic). Soooooooooo sad, you name call but can not argue with one bit of true myelin. Wow, your progressive fill must be proud.
You are a fucking ass residing in chicago and killing innocent animals: Chicago: the home of mass butchery and mass slaughterhouses.
I believe that the reason we are hitting stagnation is that those who value people over profits don't want to work in corporations. the one percent know this so they think getting rid of government officials and the social safety net , would be enough to entice the smartest to participate in their global exploitation. I know what is important in life and I'll never be a corporate storm trooper, but those who buy the american narrative, blindly climb the exploitative ladder of success. Just a thought...
The reason you're hitting stagnation is because your entire commercial culture of consumption no longer has any reason to EXIST. Your commercial culture is ROTTEN ROTTEN ROTTEN: Do you know who is using the christian image of St Nicholas; signifying the birth of Jesus now??? Mercedes Benz and DIAMOND manufacturers. Now the image of the birth of Jesus the only person who ever preached voluntary POVERTY instead of wealth is being used to sell Mercedez Benz cars and diamnod rings and bracelets... and FUCK all the poor people in the world who can't afford these luxury item.
WHY doesn't offend you? WHY doesn't bother you?.. Because you are just as rotten and after money as every other affluent consumer. Don't try to pat yourself on the back because you're lucky enough to not be forced to work for corporations. Millions of people have no other choice because they are not educated to create their own communities. What disgusts me about you middle class bums is that you don't organize yourselves together.
sorry guy, you are not speaking to a middle class money lover; you are speaking to a working class slob who is not ashamed of that fact. but this does not mean I don't care about the direction my nation is going. I realize there are bad apples, maybe even the whole tree needs re planting, but there are still good people who live here and I'd like to help them reprioritize. but if we don't, my working class friends and I will still get by; we always have; we alway will
You're a SLAVE you idiot. You like working for your slave masters? You love saying 'yes SIR!" as they pay you minimum wage and drive home in their luxury cars to their mansions while you starve and are fired and lose your homes and can't pay the rent? You're a fucking brainwashed baboon. You this the top 1% are any different from the people who own you and hire you and use you as cannon fodder? The only reason they are RICH is because all of you slaves are stupid enough to work for them instead of for yourself. You're a fucking mindless SHEEP; you're a FOLLOWER. Any of you could create your own self-sufficient communities and tell all the rich bosses and managers and slave drivers to go fuck themselves, and be free of your 9-5 slave jobs working for fucking MONEY. But you're too fucking STUPID to realize you can do it. Just before you die you will realize I am right but it wiill be TOO LATE. Just before you die you will realize that all your labor and slavery was done only so a few rich assholes could get RICHER off your sweat and effort. You working class uneducated ignorant fools are disgustingly meek and born slaves: born into slavery and brainwashed into loving your slavery.
wow, dude you are really morbid. I work to put food on my table. period. have you ever thought about getting laid, or watching a good comedy. At this point in your life, maybe a night out at the bar might sunny your horizon. i rather be one of many working class sheeple then a bidder joy kill. it was entertaining listening to your rant, i'll maybe even come back and check out your progress on conversion, but i think i'm through conversing with you. remember when you die, it wasn't about being logical it was about the relationships you made; those, after all, are the only things that live longer than the body.
I'm self-employed: and I've been self-employed for over 35 years: sucker. I don't work for anyone but myself: sucker. I don't work for anyone I don't like sucker. I only work for people I like: sucker. I get tipped every year: extra money from my customers because they're so happy with my work they give me more money that it says on the contract, sucker. I feel GOOD after I finish a job because I did it for myself and for people I like: sucker. I work for as long as I want, when I want. Only when the job is done to MY satisfaction is it finished. I have MY personal standards of excellence, and I don't sludge on the job because I'm not being forced to do the work, I ENJOY doing it. I don't have to say 'yes sir' to ANYONE, sucker... I have my SELF-RESPECT because I have my personal VALUES and and ETHICS which I do not betray, sucker. I'm PROUD of the work I do and I get satisfaction from doing it because I don't work for slave drivers and bosses who rip me off like you do, sucker. You're a working class EMPLOYEE: a SLAVE: I do not drink alcohol and I do not go to bars. Redneck alcoholic beer guzzlers like you have no self-respect, no brains and no backbone and don't have the guts or the intelligence to work for yourself. You are welcome to your slavery and your low-class lifestyle of voluntary degradation and sheeple conformity: I choose to not join you. I got tired of working for other people a LONG time ago, and now I'm spoiled... I can't stand the assholes who want to hire me an an employee. I'm no longer a nice, meek obedient slave/worker like I once was when I was growing up. I don't take shit from ANYBODY anymore. I grew up and got smart and got my self-respect back. You can stay stupid for all I care. Goodbye.
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Maybe this would work in never-never land but really, no where else.
Nobody listens to tinhorns.
I think Captain Hook tried this system once, that's how he really lost his hand.
zzz........
exactly, that is the level of discussion this entire thread deserves and ultimatly will ever recieve outside this site.
then fuck off and get lost
Anyone who posts on a forum he thinks is not worth posting is WAY too fucking dumb for words
awww, is someone upset? Free country last time I checked dick bag.
zzz.............
That's the best input I've seen you put in any thread on this site. Keep up the good work!
zzz...........
We get it, that's the extent of your intellect, thank you.
This is a TROLL thread Turak!!!
And you are a Troll Turak!!!
Is that so?
Oooh... da widdle baby is scared of da troll.
Bye-bye widdle baby.
This is one of the best plans I have heard yet! Yes that is completly sarcastic.
You are on of the most brainless stupid freaks who have come to spew their worthless shit on this thread: and I am not being sarcastic at all.
Can you say hook, line and sinker...lol, exactly the response that demonstrates the problem with this whole "Movement". A non eductated tard with the inability to address the issue so I will call you a name to feel better about myself response. LOL. Priceless.
Eh, I think I'll keep my money and vote. In fact voting would resolve all this. We could hug and kiss then.
well turak - why don't you start this self sufficient community and lead by example. gather some occupiers, buy a hundred acres in the country somewhere & show us how it is done. Maybe Michael Moore and Co. can give you the seed money to get started.
wrong: when I do it you will not hear from me or what we do you fucking SHEEP FOLLOWER ASS because we will not tell anyone what we are doing. All of you shhep can go with the rest and commit mass suicide for all we care. You don't need money to get seeds you fucking imbecile. That term comes from thee myth that money grows on trees and multiplies naturally like apples.
It sounds like you are going Galt like in Atlas Shrugged. Good luck. No need to get so upset. Sonds like you have your plan all set.
A self sufficient community does need or use: electricity: phones, the internet, computers. You're a consumer sheep: and welcome to your slavery hell. bye.
hahaha! ok - if this is hell i'll take it. send me a post card from Utopia lol!
you're a dead slob: dead souls are braindead Galt did the opposite I am doing: he was a selfish capitalist pig who was jealous and did not let anyone use his creative new ideas you stupid stupid dumb fucking imbecile. You've never had fun or enjoyed your life in your entire existence.
The imaginary superiority you freaks are addicted to: the MILLIONS of freaks who have the EXACT IDENTICAL life and addictions and dysfunctions and paranoid neurotic diseases: trying to pretend that you are happy? That you enjoy your dead existence? That you are better or in any way shape of form have a decent life? You're pathetic. You're all the exact same asshole replicated a million times over. All of you slobs are soooo 'superior'.... and sooo stupid... and sooo sick... and sooo miserable... and soooo brainwashed: and such congenital liars. You're an advertisement slogan for Budweiser. You're an advertisement slogan for pizza... A;; of you are soooo 'happy' chewing on your shit and guzzling your crap and staring at flat screens... sooo 'happy' as the top1% rob you, cheat you, deceive you, program you to sit on your asses and do nothing but eat pizza and drink beer... and all of you millions of identical paranoid freaks are soooo superior. Keep on eating your cheese and drinking your coffee and drinking your alcohol and taking your drugs and meds and pills. Keep on sitting on your ass staring at shadows on a wall and tell yourself how 'superior' you are to anyone who creates beauty. Gosh. Slobs like you can't create a fucking thing. All you can do is consume what others create. Wadda superior existence. babies sucking on a lolly. oops. Don't know how to have fun, just know how to suck onna lolly.. Has to be 'entertained' by others... has to consume mass entertainment; gobble gobble: distract-distract: sound bytes image-bytes flash! flash! flash! Oooooh, lookadda moving images onda wall! ooooh... They're illusions but they seem so 'real'.. They're not actually there but That doesn't matter. You like being deluded. The screen is dead and so are you.
yea yea - so how exactly are you going to start your own utopian community?
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who are you adressing your post to?
As another postscript to my original post... 4 weeks after I posted the idea of staring your own self-sufficient communities instead of wasting your time wrangling about money and trying to get any of the money stolen from you years ago back, which will never happen... The natural evolution of the OW movement is doing what I said is more intelligent than fighting over money.
IN fact the entire direction and energy of the OW movement has been shifting away from anger and envy against the top richest 1% of society, to the positive energy of creating their own communities and having fun doing it and making new friends... Now the logo on the OW movement web site reads:
"Build an affinity team! Meet new allies and friends and have some fun with us!"
What's happened and is happening is the people ACTIVELY involved in the OW movement are discovering that creating their own community is FUN! Getting together with people who share your root values and sharing your life with them is FUN! Helping each other and being appreciated for what you can give by people who are grateful for your help makes you feel good all over! And they are doing this without using MONEY and without going to work tio get money... IN short: what I prescribed as the solution to your problems is happening naturally without any of you people realizing it is happening. This postscript is ONLY for the people who are living out there and actively forming their own communal lifestyle and community. It is NOT for you computer freaks who are not involved in the OW movement because not one of you will know what I'm talking about because you haven't experienced the fun these people are having, and not one of you know about the happiness you get from sharing things with other decent people who are your equal, and none of you know about the energy that comes from living in an EGALITARIAN COMMUNITY which they the people on the street in New York are now experiencing...
All this positive energy is naturally forming itself ito small self-sufficient communities where everyone shares everything with others and pitches in and helps and is an appreciated member of their small community.
BUT...... and this is the mistake you OW movement people are doing. You're not thinking long term. Camping out during the summer and Fall is fine: but what's going to happen when the snow begins falling and it gets below zero? How long do you people plan on being there in the middle of the city in your flimsy tents?.... 1 month?... 6 months? ... a year?.... ten years?...
Your natural positive energy is already telling you what you should really be oing. It says now on the main web page of the OW movement:
"Learn to take down the WALL and build a new STREET! "
IN other words: take down the walls WHEREVER YOU LIVE and build a communnity on YOUR OWN STREET Turn your own street into a community Get together with people you already live with . You don't need to go to New York to do it. You can do it where you are right now. Turn your old street into a NEW street A new street where people come tigether and DO NOT SIT IN THEIR ROOMS FUCKING WITH THEIR COMPUTERS This is the positive message that these young people in New York are sending to everyone in the world:
FUCK the rich 1% You can have fun WITHOUT USING MONEY by starting your own community and making friends where you live, and you can do this WITHOUT any fucking politicians or leaders or police.
There is a complete GULF between the people who are on the street and actively involved in this movement and the computer freaks who come onto this forum. All you people who don't want to start and create your own community and don't want to shut off your computers shouldn't even be on this forum. This forum should only be for people who are active members of the OW movement. Because this forum has not yet thrown out all thee trolls and freaks who are filling this forum with their negative cynicism and hate and scorn and trivial crap, it has deteriorated into the usual worthless crap which all internet forums are filled with.
You certainly can do both. It happens every day when people with money help those without. Your extreme radical ideal is noble but will not be embraced by more than just a tiny fraction of the population of the world. Sorry, I just can't see everyone waking up one morning and burning their cash.
another fucking idiot
Fist: you fucking jackass: when you give someone money: you don't give them LOVE, you don't give them their SELF-RESPECT. Begging for money is DEGRADING and accepting free money is DISGUSTING and victimizing. You think you are a good person because you give someone money? NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT The entire world gave the poorest nation in the western hemisphere BILLIONS of dollars of free money and if you look up what state HAITI is now... it is WORSE THAN IT WAS BEFORE they were given all that fucking MONEY.
I am not interested on all of you brainless fucking jackasses do with your money. ME living in a self-sufficient community will be doing FINE without using it while YOU are dehumanized by using it and remain a SLAVE to your greed and avarice for MONEY. Self-sufficient communities do not burn anything they can USE you idiot. All the MONEY of a self-sufficient community is used to make their self-sufficient community even MORE self-sufficient until there is no NEED for using it.
Do you have any idea of how many brainless idiots there are like on the internet? HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS. Do you know what you are? A ZERO. a NOTHING. A faceless mob of millions of cowards hiding in terror at being found out: sucking on your distraction toys and staring at shadows on a cave wall: All of you are stupider than the Neanderthals who stared at shadows on their cave walls: you live even worse than they do and you don't even turn around to see the sun: the light coming from the outside which is the REAL world: not your fucking computer shadow world of idiocy and distraction.
I forgot how crazy you are. Stop cursing. It shows that frustration is getting the better of you. Insulting me is insulting yourself. You are an internet idiot as much as I. One of the millions and millions. Stop with the superiority. You are holding on to an idea for the sake of holding on to an idea. Is earning money a hand out too? VERY FEW will embrace your idea. If you present it, so eloquently I might add, and it's rejected then just stop whining and move on.
YOU move on. This is MY thread NOT YOURS: now get OFF this thread with your bullshit personal comments and get lost.
You fucking inferiority complex is NOT MY PROBLEM. The fact that you are an inferior idiot is NOT MY PROBLEM. I have no wish for EVERYONE to embrace my idea you fucking idiot. All I need is 36 INTELLIGENT adults and all the rest of you fucking imbeciles can go to hell and you can STAY there and I will get them.
Okay. I will move on. But I do it under protest. I do it because your vulgarity has sunk you to such a low that no matter how hard I stare downward, I can't see you. You must be well on your way to hell. Have a nice thread.
go fuck yourself freak: I told you, your fucking inferiority is your problem: not mine. Trying to look down upon other people is the sign of assholes who not only feel inferior but ARE inferior: now get lost. Your protest will be ignored: just as you ignore all common sense and logic and intelligent posts. IN other words asshole: as you do: SO SHALL IT BE DONE TO YOU.
Fuck you. Now I'm not leaving. Just kidding it's boring and so are you.
I told you to get off this thread freak: you are a boring lonely ass who needs a swift kick up his ass.
Bring it. Brave little guy. Put down the x-box controller and kick my ass. I have the last word. If you respond with crap so will I.
The only reason you assholes troll here is because you cowards can hide behind the anonymity of the internet. I am not small and If I find you I will kick your ass personally. I do not use your fucking sick fantasy games filled with ABSTRACT VICARIOUS killing and hate and violence... YOU do. You are a lonely little boy who is scared oh his shadow: your trolling is not appreciated and not wanted here. Now get lost loser.
I am old enough to be your father so listen son, calm down. Take a breath. I'm gonna leave you now. If you respond to me with the hatred you can't hold back then I will get a pop-up and have to respond as well. So stop. Good night.
Listen you fucking asshole: I am 64 years old and I can take you apart if you ever have the guts to meet me in person: you are a fucking TROLL and a fucking little wimp who hides behind internet anonymity to spew your adolescent shit out onto these forums: you have been recognized and tagged. No decent person will have anything to do with you and you will get NO positive response or recognition from your being here. All you trolls will get from coming onto this thread is ABUSE: Understand that motherfucker? You want more abuse... then COME BACK and I will kick your sorry ass until it is red and sore all over.
fantasy - I choose to love money. with money - you can buy the love of people. Without money - you delude yourself as evidenced by this ludicrous post.
go ahead: buy a wife that loves you. Buy children who love you... just get the fuck off this thread and don't come back
thats a mature response. this whole movement is nothing but a childish temper tantrum
I told you to get off this thread, freak: you're a child posing as an adult
so you are the boss of this thread now lol!
I started this thread. I am the originator of this thread. I created this thread. As such it is my responsibility to explain how a self-sufficient community that foes not use money is a thousand times better use of your energy and life than fighting over money. Fighting over money creates hate. Only selfish greedy people care about money.
YOU have no concept of responsibility. You and all the other trolls come here and drop your load of shit and leave because none of you have anything to live FOR: you have no morals, no decency, no ethics, no values and no self-esteem. You are spoiled babies playing with your toy on a forum that has serious mature fathers and mothers worried about the future of their families and your presence is not welcome here and not wanted. All of you millions of internet trolls are a drain on your nation's economy. You contribute nothing but poison on the internet. You do nothing but consume and expect to be coddled by a system that has already dispossessed over 20 million American middle class families of their homes... that's over 60 million of you hit by the banks and the top1%... and you fucking internet assholes don't care about anyone but your stinking selfish selves. Well I've got NEWS for you... the decent people demonstrating on Wall Street WHOM THIS WEB PAGE BELONGS TO: don't appreciate or like your kind at all. That includes me. Now fuck off and get lost.
As a postscript to my original post 3 weeks ago... If you look at what has happened and is happening, is exactly what I prescribed.... only it is not happening on an intelligent level of small organized communities: It's happening blindly on a mass level... thousands of activists and decent people are getting together and helping one another with such things as food and shelter and clothing without using money... and naturally forming themselves into small communal cooperative efforts.
This is only happening because people are coming together in SMALL group: not huge mass rallies or mobs.
My point is simple: take all of your positive energy and wonderful new friends whom you've met and start creating your own communities. It's already happening naturally anyways. The OW movement in New York received so many donations of money they didn't know what to do with it! So they depositied in the only small bank that is dedicated to serving the poorest people in new York city. The people whom the big banks refuse to give bank accounts to.
That's the ANSWER you people; Start your OWN bank. Start your OWN community, organize yourselves as a small independent community which does not need or use any of the services or products of the capitalist mass-manufacturing system. Once you stop going to their Wal-marts and using their banks and buying their J.C. Penny clothes: they will be FUCKED SOLID and all of you will be just fine: cooperating with each other and NOT LETTING THE ENEMY COME INTO YOUR RANKS..
FUCK the rich. The only reason they hoard money is because of the social STATUS they think it gives them. Once that mark becomes a NEGATIVE indicator rather than something other people envy: they will be screwed as they deserve to be.
BUT.... this is NOT happening to the people who troll on the internet. There should be a clear distinction on this movement's forum recognizing who is your friend and who are the saboteurs and enemies of your movement. 99.9% of the assholes on this form are against your movement: not for it. They think they can get a free ride posting on your forum anything they want to: get some discipline into your ranks and shut OUT these SOB's.
Once you begin to exclude the rich and everyone who is not supporting you from your ranks and your forum: you will be amazed how many people suddenly want to be your friend sand help you... and you will be amazed at how clearly the distinction of friend or foe is made clear. Either you are against the whole capitalist global system of greed or you are for it. All the wishy-washy hypocrites should be told to go away. They can sit on the fence of their own contradictions without bothering you decent people: the ones who actually are on the streets demonstrating
The generosity and decency of people all over the world is being showcased in individual acts of brotherhood and sisterhood.through this movement and it is GROWING and GROWING stronger and stronger.
Just don't let your movement be hijacked by any leaders or any hidden agendas. As long as you keep to the ethics of equality you will win. The less you use money to live: the happier all of you become, the more human meaning you have in your relationships with other people.
lol...I guess the weed's arrived.
1205 retards Like this!
Turak, I've spent the last half hour or so reading through 'your thread' . It seems to me that you have some intelligence in your arguments. So, of course you are aware that 'intentional cooperative communities' have existed in the past. The human race 'evolved' from those communities to a system based on money. We didn't move toward our current system because of money, we moved there because of greed. It doesn't matter what type of Utopian fantasy you contrive, there will always be desire for more. More food, more power, more sex. We need to give up desire to get to your ideal world view, money is incidental. By the way calling everyone an idiot is not very persuasive and I'm sure that you will retort with something like: I don't care if I persuade, but of course you do, or you wouldn't have started this thread. I'm wondering why you say things like 'your society' etc., are you from this country, in this country? Hugs and kisses
WRONG. You exist inside a system that forces you into acting like a machine and forces you to consume mass manufactured goods.
It's a circular dynamic which the masses have been forced into.
Use millions of people as faceless identical slaves: forces them into factories to mass-manufacture products at starvation wages.
Force the starving workers to buy the mass manufactured identical products by allowing them just enough money to keep the system rolling.
All controlled by a few wealthy bankers so the dollars can keep rolling into their private vaults.
It's a closed system: imbecile. Once you get OUT of that closed system you don't need it. That's all of you idiots need to understand. But all of you morons are INSIDE the system and you none of youhave the guts to step OUTSIDE the system and create your own community that is NOT based upon wage slavery and is NOT based upon mass manufacturing and is NOT based upon money and is NOT based upon greed and selfishness.
Self-sufficient communities are the OPPOSITE of Utopias. They are practical and small and creative and innovative.
What yoi diots are envisaging is a huge change in how the world works right now due to self-sufficient communities taking over the planet. That is the far-ahead FUTURE: not the practical present. Small self-sufficient communities can be created OUTSIDE this money system individually. You don't need 6 billion crazed apes atampeding to conform into one kind of living to create one small community. But! All of you are such a bunch of MASS SHEEP... that you only think of yourself as IN a mass of millions. Not as an individual who is apart from all the identical zombies on earth. Your problem rests with YOU. The only time you will ever wake up is when you stop living as a conformist mass-sheeple and stop thinking like a mindless MOB.
Anarchist stupidity.
wrong: you fucking troll. A self-sufficient community relies on intelligent cooperation between equals to thrive and work. Intelligent cooperation is not anarchy. 6.8 billion greedy apes fighting over money, 6.8 billion apes robbing and cheating each other for money IS anarchy. Global capitalism IS anarchy. The 1% creating false flag events and inventing a hysteria and culture of fear and paranoia IS anarchy of the masses. The financial world of the stock market IS anarchy . The culture of selfishness and greed and to hell with everybody else IS anarchy. The internet IS anarchy. The entire world of banking is in total CHAOS. The mass feeding frenzy of the stock market is ANARCHY. Each little fucking investor trying to get rich off the backs of all the working poor of the world is worse than anarchy: it's the 99% being brainwashed into acting like the to 1% of greedy money-grubbers.
Sounds more like a collective commie idea. Never work here in the land of the free. 310,000,000 people in this country, and I dontthink 99% of that number are going to throw up their hands and say,"oh what a great idea!" if your talking about a new constitution you can count most of us out.
All of you WILL be counted out... You don't get it, moron... A small self-sufficient community of 24 or 36 individuals does not WANT any of you 310,000,000 idiots in their community and will not let you IN. Got that birdbrain? No? Then go suck on a lemon.
Hey tupak, you better go hole up somewhere on your own because your a crabby ass and nobody would like to be your friend. Mob rule would put you 6 feet under the grass.
mobs like you I kill very easily
Jesus doesn't like murder. It is very evil for a supposed peacnik like you to utter such vitriol. Now go put you nose in the corner and don't come out until your mother says it's ok.
I'm not a peace-nik you fucking troll: you are and you're a scared little boy hiding behind the anonymity of the internet. What you don't realize is that the culture of the internet has forced all of you into becoming paranoid terrified cowards
Oh really? I didnt know that.. I guess I'll have to inform myself. I'll have to go read some Edgar Allen Gore.
Now you do: and don't come back again: your pointless shit is clogging up the internet.
Sounds like you've been playing pot farm on Facebook too much Tupac
sounds like you're a stinking pothead: I do not use drugs. Druggies are not liked here and the OW movement has a 100% non-tolerance policy for freaks like you so keep on moving. You stand for nothing and are not willing to fight for anything. This EXCLUDES you 100% from all OW movement forums and threads. You and all the assholes who haven't anything better to do than fill up space are the enemies of the OW movement and of me.
Hate monger! Keep your crabby attitude and you will get sent to Singapore for 50 lashes on your buttocks. Now get moving you grouch! Perhaps a gulag of north Korea? Keep it up and you will go there, dropped in a 50000 person hate camp, where human beings are treated worse than a rabid dog! I've never seen such a grouchy attitude!
Read this again: I DO NOT TOLERATE DRUG ADDICTS coming on this forum: and neither do all the decent people who support the OW movement and neither do the people protesting on wallstreet and neither do the vendors and shop owners who support them: understand? Get lost druggie: you been identified, labeled and TAGGED. Now everyone knows what you are.
Don't be so crabby. You need to get a job and stop hiding behind your little computer screen. Sheesh. Your father never taught you manners. Or were you never given any hugs? Here is a nice big hug through cyber space for you Tupac!!!
Go fuck yourself: You're a drug addict; now fuck off.
Tupac you seem to be way too grouchy. I will not answer to your vial filthy mouth anymore. Now go back to your mommy and learn a few manners. Crabby! Sheesh.
get lost troll and good riddance: how long does it take for you to understand your kind is not wanted here? A LONG fucking time.
You are a provacetuer. I just can't help responding to you. Have you ever seen a shrink? How about anger management class? Has your mouth ever been washed out with soap? Have you ever been hugged? If not, I suggest you go to therapy and GET HELP!!! Lay on a nice soft sofa and spill your guts to the therapist. Their is no shame in that Tupac.
you're a lonely bored out-of work freak with no purpose in your life and nothing to live for: you have HUGE emotional problems: you need to get yourself to a therapist or a counselor QUICK
I think Turak has a point. I suggest that the 99 percent gather their cash and send it all to the US treasury to pay down the deficit. The cash is the root of the problems we are having. Cleanse yourselves of this evil and let the 1 percent deal with it.
How fucking stupid are you? Incredibly stupid. Mind bogglingly stupid. First: the 99% is only a slogan: not a cohesively organized movement and it represents less that 1% of your population because all of you paranoid timid mice are too terrified and brainwashed by your masters to join them, too afraid of losing your slave-wage jobs, too afraid of doing anything but sitting on your asses staring at a screen.
What you do is find a small number of active doers who aren't like you, and you pool all of your money and keep all of your pooled resources INSIDE your community by not buying or selling anything outside of your community. That's your first step in creating a self-sufficient community that is forced to exist in the middle of a corrupt money system... Rhen after you've pooled all of your money and resources: you go about creating your community to become 100% self-sufficient. Only AFTER your community is 100% self-sufficient will you not be needing money anymore, and even then you will not give it to anyone else and you will not throw it away. You will keep it in reserve as a back-up, a safety net, just in case you find that you actually DO need something outside of your self-sufficient community which requires the use of money.
Only when the system of money self-destructs, and it will, only then will your money become worthless, and then you won't throw it away: you'll find a use for it like wiping your ass of shit in the toilet.
Sorry i had no idea how far you had thought your plan through. It all makes sense now?!
I volunteer to start this movement by accepting the money of anyone on these boards. If you are bothered by the idea of money or if you feel that your money is tying you down, please message me privately and I will provide you with the necessary details to send it via wire transfer to my bank account. I'm offering this service free of charge.
fuck off freak: your kind is what the OW movement is fighting against
I only want to help. I agree with your idea of replacing money with hugs & kisses, and that is why I want to make it easy for anyone who wishes to make this happen right now. I'm offering a 30 day money back guarantee. If you are not satisfied that I have freed you from a life of money and greed, I will return all your money back.
7 other assholes already posted the same shit you did: you're an ENEMY of the OW movement. Good to know. Now they can ban you from this forum/
Why should I be banned? I agree with you money is evil, so I'm offering anyone who wants a chance to get ride of it. I'm not forcing anybody, and you might be surprised, but I received a few private messages from people who like the idea. One of them has no family, and he wants to become a monk. He doesn't want to give his money to the government, and he wants a 30-day money back guarantee, so he is thinking of using my services.
If you believe that money is evil you would not touch it or use it: you lying shit: now fuck off: you are a revolting piece of offal
I'm willing to sacrifice myself for the good of others. I will be the martyr who gets stuck with your evil money.
I cannot agree more but how to start and how to persuade the monarchies out east and the totalitarians with billion+ population
You're missing the point: moron. When you create your own self-sufficient community with the small band of intelligent people you have chosen to start it with you... you won't be notifying ANYONE of your plans and activities PERIOD: understand, you brainless imbecile?
When you start your own self-sufficient community: you are doing the opposite... the OPPOSITE! of trying to save 7 billion greedy jackasses from them their own greed. You're letting them all go to hell in their own fashion, while YOUR community thrives and grows and flourished because it isn't based on money and doesn't use money and is self-sufficient and does not need any fucking global trade in order to live a healthy happy life of sharing.
Now fuck off: you're too stupid for words.
I'll let go that you have to insult someone because you can't get your point across. I can take your nonsense, but listen, what you advocate is already being done in communes and ashrams everywhere. The average world citizen already said no.
No it is NOT being done: you moron: all the ashrams and communes in the world today use MONEY to function. The average citizen is NOT THE POINT: you fucking deaf imbecile. It is only for the most positive and the most intelligent people on earth: thee few, rare individuals who are logical and commit themselves to living a life that has meaning.
I am sorry to have offended you. I commend you for living the ideal that the vast majority won't. I really mean that. When I was younger I felt like that as well but did not have the dedication to make it happen. Then life beat me up and I lost focus. Hope you succeed and sorry again, if I pissed you off.
That's where you and I part ways. You've GIVEN UP. All of you fucking wimps are giver-uppers. All of you don't even TRY. All of you give up BEFORE trying. That is 100% NEGATIVE and that is why you have no meaning in your life and why your life is so empty and miserable. I'm 64 years old and I will NEVER give up: understand? If you have something worth living for, something worth doing you DO NOT GIVE UP. If I haven't given up at the age of 64, what does that make you, eh?
You sound a lot younger. Kudos for that. The reason you sound younger is that you think I gave up without trying. You, you've been trying for 64 years but the world hasn't capitulated yet. Keep trying but not by putting me down. That won't get the world where you want it.
I am not fighting the world you moron: I'm not trying to change the world: idiot A self-sufficient community only needs 24-36 people to form that community and no more. The rest of you losers can go to hell for all I care. Don't try to put yourself on my level: you give up: I despise spineless sheeple like you
Thanks man. I didn't know it was like that. You are the best at this. You are so informative that you actually make a difference. You are the s**t.
Please mention one or two successful countries around the World that would model their society after your idea. I bet you can't name even one. Socialism and Communism always fails. The fact of life is any society has limited resources. Not enough for everybody. Supply and demand. Even in your utopian society, there would be ruling classes within each community.
The rich people under capitalism will remain the rich people under socialism or communism. Ambition and greed will always win over laziness and complacency.
You are another idiot: your post does not make any sense. read the other posts on this thread before you jump to your conclusions... and don't bother me again.
Really, one shouldn't take advantage of the mentally ill. But I just can't resist.
You are mentally ILL. You are PROJECTING your mental illness. The reason you do so is because that is the ONLY way you can defend against realizing how mentally ill you are. The internet is filled with millions upon millions of mentally ill sicko's like you who would never dare say what you post to anyone in person. You want to see who is mentally ill: you come see me PERSONALLY: and we shall see who the mentally ill person is. But of course you won't. All of you computer freaks have created a sick culture and an insane religious belief that none of you will ever be caught and punished for your crimes. The very fact that your life is so EMPTY that you waste you days coming HERE where you are not wanted: where you are despised is prove in and of itself that you are a mentally ill freak. The very fact that you have nothing else in your LIFE is PROOF that you're a sick freak.
Do you even read your own posts? I'll bet you can't even count the number of times you've posted in this one thread. I'll have to add obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD) to my remote diagnosis.
But you really do need to get some help. Please, for your own good.
The point is: you don't read my posts; now fuck off freak.
Do you have any physical symptoms such as tics (involuntary muscle spasms) or uncontrollable verbal utterances? Do you have any other symptoms - difficulty sleeping, exhaustion, anxiety? Finding help is as simple as calling 311. The city has competently staffed hospitals that provide a full suite of mental health services.
get lost fuckface: your shit isn't worth answering
But OCD compels you to keep replying. Just look at the number of posts you've made in this thread, and how many of them contain foul language and insults. You obviously can't help yourself, which is why it is so important that you get some professional help. It's for your own benefit.
wrong
Then why do you keep replying?
Because this is my thread and you're a fucking troll;: now get lost freak. The only thing you will get from me is a swift kick up your fucking ass. You want to post more shit on this thread>? but why? What do you get from it?
I'll tell you what you get: and that's a swift kick up your fucking ass by me. You want me to kick your fucking ass some more just keep oncoming back and I will oblige you as kong as you fucking want.
Please send all of the bad money o the folks atOWS
Lets make something else money instead of the paper Uncle issues. How about sea shells ( wampum) it worked well for the Indians. Plus, I'll be rich because I live by a beach full of wampum.
then go ahead and eat your fucking wampum and see if other idiots will join you
It was a joke dick beat!
go make your jokes somewhere else
you think the world is a joke?
You think that 20 million families losing their homes is a joke?
You think everything is a joke?
When you are homeless and on the street: I will come over and laugh at you and make jokes about you.... then we can all have a good laugh at people like you
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
Wrong idiot. The constitution was written by the richest landowners in America to keep the lower class peasants in line and under control. Wake up and read a book. if you can't read a book I have no hope for you whatsoever.
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
Your problem is that you think not only in non-existent abstractions, but you think like a mass-animal and that does not exist. There is NO mass of people that that will ever act as one or ever be organized as one nation. By identifying with a non-existent mass of millions your entire life and your views become pointless and wasted. The abstract idea and identity of a nation is an invention which does not exist anywhere except on paper. What you need to do is get practical. Create a community that you want with other people as your equals based upon intelligent voluntary cooperation without any leaders. And get rid of your insane notion that you have any rights or privileges. You have none. And get rid of the idea of pursuing happiness. The only way you become happy is by creating your own happiness: not running after something. And throw out your idea that you are part of a Nation and other people are part of you through this bullshit propaganda concept, and stop worshiping the richest landowners, the most corrupt greedy slave owners who invented a centralized power in order to keep and INCREASE their unearned wealth and power and oppress and rob and swindle the lower classes. They were the assholes who got you into this predicament in the first place by creating a government to oppress you.
Your are not alone who thinks so. I told about it long time ago and very few occupiers responded positive. Ppl do not understand that money is the root of all evils. The real solution for variety of problems we are facing is abolishing of money. But that is Communism. How are you going to accept it if you trashed it for all your life? And what another choice you have? Everything else will not abolish money and will not solve the "root of all evils" problem. If your do not believe me, good luck with your efforts! Your will go by circles until this movement totally become nonsense and accomplishments will fade away soon.
Living without money is not ;communism' it is communal living. The term ;communist; was invented to reverse the idea of living without money from being a good idea to that of being an evil idea Bolshevik revolutionaries were called 'communists' and this label has been used to denigrate all kinds of intentional communities. The historical fact is that the Bolshevik revolutionaries took a Russia where 80* of the peasants already owned their own land and lived in communal villages and systematically destroyed every single commune and community and herded the masses of peasants into slave camps where they were forced to work for their masters.
Just like the cottage industry peasants of England were herded into cattle cars and forced to slave in factories and starve in ghettos for their masters because they were getting too close to living a happy healthy life.
If you study history in depth: you will realize that every natural... NATURAL mass movement of the people in the last 500 years has been towards a healthier more intelligent society of small communities.
Living without money is not ;communism' it is communal living. The term ;communist; was invented to reverse the idea of living without money from being a good idea to that of being an evil idea Bolshevik revolutionaries were called 'communists' and this label has been used to denigrate all kinds of intentional communities. The historical fact is that the Bolshevik revolutionaries took a Russia where 80* of the peasants already owned their own land and lived in communal villages and systematically destroyed every single commune and community and herded the masses of peasants into slave camps where they were forced to work for their masters.
Just like the cottage industry peasants of England were herded into cattle cars and forced to slave in factories and starve in ghettos for their masters because they were getting too close to living a happy healthy life.
If you study history in depth: you will realize that every natural... NATURAL mass movement of the people in the last 500 years has been towards a healthier more intelligent society of small communities.
If you had any money in the first place then you wouldn't be trying to abolish it.
If I had money I would be using it to establish a self-sufficient community so I wouldn't need to have money. Get this through your head: not everyone is as greedy as you are. Not everyone loves money more than LIFE itself like you do. This is what is so tiresome and boring: millions of assholes in the world cannot understand that out of all the billions of human beings on this planet... there are people who are not IDENTICAL to you. Huuman beings are not copies of YOU. Other human beings are DIFFERENT from YOU. try to study this fact... after ten years, it may percolate through your empty stupid head.
What you just described is exactly what I do. I create technology jobs. Our company is a self-sufficient ("profitable") community of software developers, graphic designers, web operations people, etc. Each unique and not identical, with unique skills to add to the big picture. You're fantasizing, I'm doing.
Good stuff TechJunkie! Right on! Keep making those jobs for people and having great ideas that build great companies which employ great people. Well done!
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you're full of bullshit: you are not self-sufficient: in fact you aren't even in school yet: why do all the stupidest idiots like you come here?
Create an economy based upon hugs and kisses? What drugs are you smoking? Please people grow up!!! You can't get rid of money get over it. It has already been tried in compounds all over the world, they are just miserable states of tyranny. If you want to try that, go build a compound and see if you can get it right, but for now, stop making the movement look ridiculous.
Wrong: why are you lying through your teeth? No human community has ever attempted to live without money except the communities which lived without money for over 100,000 years before money was INVENTED. Your lie about a community without money producing tyranny is the opposite reversal the the factuial history of human civilization. Since money was invented: human communities have been tyrannized by greedy money-grubbers like you who have oppressed, lied and cheated and stolen and robbed the masses of the working poor of all their wealth. You do not 'build' compounds when you create a community without using money. Building walled guarded 'compounds' is what every ruling class of robber barons and kings and dictators have been doing for the past 10,000 years. You obviously have no grasp of human history, or you would have noticed that for 10,000 years of civilized human activity on this earth: humans who use money have BUILT COMPOUNDS; walled walled forts, walled cities, centralized places in which to store and hoard all of their ill-gotten wealth.
What this forum does not need is crazy people who have no understanding of human history and MONEY. Do you have any idea of how ridiculous your post is?
First, relax, Second, as I told you before, you're wasting your time and this threads time. Even if your idea is correct, which it isn't it'll never happen in America. At least not this century. Second, I'm not incorrect about it been done before. You ever heard of Jonestown? It was a money less society until they all killed themselves. During the 60's hippy communities or compounds opened all over USA. They grew their own food and had no ownership. Failed again. The only "successful" society I can think which does not use money within their own society are the Amish. I guess if you live in a very small population and don't ask for much such a society can exist. Also, by the way, slavery existed before money. Money came quite late in human civilization, before they used barter system. As time went by all civilizations picked a main commodity to be the central trading unit and that became currency. People need money to buy things and go to work. And plus you don't even have an alternative system, all you're saying is get rid of money and then what? how will labor and goods be divided among society? So again, I wasted too much time on this stupidity, because you won't even get 1% of the US population to support you, so please lets work on things that we can actually change. I'm sure getting rid of money is not going to go well with most Americans.
your ignorance is not worth correcting. Since any educated person knows you are not correct: you will have the satisfaction of knowing you are wrong without need to humiliate you any further