Forum Post: Eliminate the Monetary System!
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 4, 2011, 12:56 p.m. EST by sandpirate
(89)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
We the People rid our societies of the classes and begin combined efforts as a unified global civilization.
This begins with each one of us, our outlook, our attitude, our willingness to accept indifference, change, conflict, debate, and scrutiny. We begin by assuming responsibility for our individual actions and their affect on others near and far. We can no longer afford to rely on unrealistic truths of our past, so we must strive to better ourselves and our relationships with each other. To become a true civilized people we must act together, work together, and plan together as an individually collective race.
No Money, No Credit, No Debt, No Finances, No Loans, No Taxes, No Bartering, No Kingdoms, No Homeless, No 1%, No Hungry, No Starving, and No Poverty.
For this to occur we must first become civilized.
All of you are haggling about money.
Get rid of it.
Instead of a money economy: based upon corruption, opposition, selfishness and greed: create your own self-sufficient communities and economies based upon cooperation, trust and fun.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/all-of-you-are-missing-the-point/
Support a new progressive assault on the concentration of wealth like 100 years ago.
http://www.nationofchange.org/today-anniversary-america-s-first-progressive-revolution-1359988484
Sounds like you've been working at it.
that's someone elses post
I'm just your friendly neighborhood spider man
http://occupywallst.org/forum/forum-topics/
Where there's one, there are more! Thanks!
I agree 100%. Money was necessary in ancient times, but not anymore.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9sWqYcVTqQ
Middle age times people dreamed from technology what we have now. They thought it was just utopian dream because humans can't fly.
Later in future we got planes, helicopters and spaceships.
Exactly!
Humans still can't fly. And this is not utopia.
It is old saying, you got maybe point. No one believed humans someday could rule the laws of air like it ruled laws of ground allready. Right now we allready ruled laws of space too, it is not anymore thing or two with today technology.
I am not talking ruling it way like CHARGE... i am more talking we have completed challenge what was some days ago seen impossible.
Learning to manipulate the laws of air flow and gravity is entirely different than manipulating people. The elements of nature are predictable and constant-which allows us to operate within them with a guaranteed outcome.
People are not predictable nor constant.
There are no constants or guarantees in life, there is only our decisions. This could be a flop, or a success, but is it worth a try? I believe it is, and I am willing to support it and anyone else who is willing.
Willing to support it and anyone else who is willing.....sure you are. You're just not willing to design, organize, and take responsibility for it. Do I have that right?
This is an open concept; if this wasn't an interest to you, you would have signed off an hour ago. Please submit your design...
You first.
We’re going to need to funnel our hate into cooperation and abstain from our judgmental tendencies and allow ourselves to mature as a people. This change in our species is not just for us, but for our children, and their children, and their children…so that humanity may survive and thrive, continuing to create progress for eternity.
And exactly what system are you proposing?
A resource based economy. We need to stop thinking in terms of money and start thinking in terms of resources.
AMEN to you brother
No isms
That response was what systems you are NOT proposing. Try again.
Our present system promotes hoarding because most fear that there won’t be enough for them, so they hoard. The unfortunate consequences of this system are individuals who possess more than they will ever need in a thousand lifetimes and thousands who don’t have enough to even survive. Yet we celebrate those that have attained more than everyone else and pity those that are doomed to suffering from severe poverty. Maintaining a balanced system so that everyone has an equal share of clean water, fresh food, medical care, education, and community support isn’t a miracle or unrealistic it is our right! Treat everyone as if they were a member of your family and care for them, and they will care for you. We have so alienated ourselves from each other that we have forgotten that we are all very, very similar. We share the same air, the same water, the same land; how much closer do we need to be to open up and accept each other as a friend? It’s as simple as working together as a team, if we are all prospering from the same effort we will all work harder because we will be benefiting from our own contributions.
"Treat everyone as if they were a member of your family and care for them, and they will care for you."
And yet.....how many families do you know with members that are cared for but refuse to care in return? Or who take advantage of that care? How many siblings do you know of who LOVE to share everything equally?
You do not live in a world where every single person is loving, and caring, and wants to WORK HARD. You are not dealing with people who will all suddenly "snap out of it" and become productive members of society once they see it is a team effort.
There are millions of organizations that already exist who provide clean water, fresh food, medical care, education and community support to those who suffer from a lack of those things. And yet we aren't living in utopia yet.
I'm not saying your ideal doesn't sound wonderful. I'm saying that you can remove the current system and replace it with something truly amazing-but you'll STILL be dealing with the SAME people.
I agree with you, but the more intrenched we become in this society the least likely we are to have the initiative to burrow our way out of this hole.
Great example of why this movement is not taken seriously.
You missed the boat, it is not a movement. It is an awakening. A rude one for the 1%
Im still tired.
Is that what it looks like from Florida? Because from here in NYC it looks like a couple hundred people sleeping in the park.
Larger than life.
Larger than reality at least
...but obtainable.
You want change without expense; you cannot move without expending energy.
You sir, are harming the OWS movement's credibility.
You sir are not a movement.
[Deleted]
This is your credibility?
Many famous/wise ppl believed in eliminating money.
With abundance, barter & hoarding is unnecessary.
http://666ismoney.com/MoneyQuotes.html
Finally an open mind...
You've countered his argument with little sayings and analogies. I'm convinced!
Brother how much argument is there to make on the fact that we are all human beings striving for a better humanity? At a family level we try to teach our children by lecture and by example to be better human beings. Why is so difficult to understand that that principle of striving for a better humanity must be present not just at the family level but at all levels of our society in order to really be fruitful at all levels? To say that we humans are so smart that we can make humankind succeed without humanity is like saying that life can survive on this realm without the Sun or without water.
About time.
A mind so open I can hear the prairie winds howling through it...
Many also think technology is evil... It is our ignorance that allow us to blame a inanimate object for our own wrong doings... Money is a tool. It is the tool that facilitates commerce. When the multiplication of money becomes the main purpose of a market then you have first a stagnated market and second the idolatry of a tool: money. Once our education system teaches this you'll never see again posts like this... Money has not power, is us the ones we decide how much power is on the hands of those that control the money...
Our present system promotes hoarding because most fear that there won’t be enough for them, so they hoard. The unfortunate consequences of this system are individuals who possess more than they will ever need in a thousand lifetimes and thousands who don’t have enough to even survive. Yet we celebrate those that have attained more than everyone else and pity those that are doomed to suffering from severe poverty. Maintaining a balanced system so that everyone has an equal share of clean water, fresh food, medical care, education, and community support isn’t a miracle or unrealistic it is our right! Treat everyone as if they were a member of your family and care for them, and they will care for you. We have so alienated ourselves from each other that we have forgotten that we are all very, very similar. We share the same air, the same water, the same land; how much closer do we need to be to open up and accept each other as a friend? It’s as simple as working together as a team, if we are all prospering from the same effort we will all work harder because we will be benefiting from our own contributions.
Very well said brother!
Thank you!
Can you point to an example of where this have ever worked in the past on a large scale?
To my knowledge there hasn't. How many ran the first 4 minute mile before the first person? Answer: none. After the first person performed the feat it became believable and accepted and many have done so since that day.
We are becoming too complacent and resilient to change even though we want it.
Pol Pot eliminated money. Noam Chomsky wrote a book exposing the lies & slander against Pol Pot called, "After the Cataclysm." Just as Pol Pot rebuilt the canals that the USA (Nixon) destroyed (and killed thousands with illegal bombing) Vietnam invaded. Anyone who believes in eliminating money (Fidel Castro, Muammar Gaddafi, Jesus, etc.) gets slandered & crucified.
Fear controls us today, what is the difference?
Ignorance too (some of the posts on this forum & thread) . . . it's very depressing.
When I was younger, I thought I could save the world, now I see that America has BAD karma and deserves to fall.
Time to fight or flee?
Never, never, never give up!
All leading nations have failed, usually consumed from within like ours. We have options, we just have to determine how far we will let it go before we react. No one is going to act for us, at least in our best interest.
To enforce my brother sandpirate point I have to say that any of our brothers that want just a superficial change always say:'humans are greedy and that is the way it is!' Sorry but I don't believe it. Humanity is evolving to be better humans. And this movement is just one of the big signs of it! Yes, it may have never happen on Earth before, but it has never hurt to try something new. It cannot be worse that what we have now…
"It has never hurt to try something new. It cannot be worse than what we have now..." I believe that is what people in Europe were telling themselves in 1935.
Of all the demonstrably untrue statements I have seen on this forum, that is probably amongst to most ridiculous.
Sorry Brother dthompson, You don't have the ability yet to fathom what OWS is about...But I tell you what we are not about...we are not here to engage on arguments with individuals looking to pick a fight that makes their day. The task of getting greed out of our grid is much more important than to waste time neither arguing with lost brothers like you nor to teach those lost brothers of what is really going on. Your time may or may not come when you will have the sufficient knowledge and moral assertion of the need for you to join and voice your outrage for the sake of humanity. But we at OWS have not time neither to force nor to teach anybody about the need for humans to come together and stand against greed within our way of living. It is up to you to be complacent or to be an activist. It is not up to OWS to make you see the light...is on you!
Sounds like a cult. On the other hand, you do want the rest of the populace to continue to let you camp in a city park and suck up city resources, so you probably do need to do a better job explaining exactly what OWS is trying to accomplish and why we shouldn't support the NYPD rolling this whole circus up.
Brother, to strive for a better humanity is not a cult or a religion. It is the nature and the innate desire of every human being, across worlds... Even for those like you that cannot discern yet why humanity must be humane, the desire to strive for it is already implanted on your being...because you are Human not just a creature...
Hey,
Please pass this on if you agree. We are working on setting a date.
Force Change, Boycott Capitalism
until we have full government resignation and a new online voting system with verification so we can rebuild our country and eventually our world.
We know what the problem is, let us fix it and move forward together.
When you look at a republican or democrat, congress or FDA official, Judges and Justice Department, you see criminals.
Our corruption dates back decades to when those, who in trying to preserve slavery, had to find new ways to preserve it and so created a scientific and advanced form of slavery.
Only two components were required -- the illusion of freedom & choice and the taking away of the freedom to live off the land.
How else would you get a person to submit themselves to mind numbing or degrading work unless you oppress them into it.
Our current system is rooted in corruption and every attempt in preserving it involves manipulating human thought and turning people against one another.
In America the population has been transformed into two major voting groups but they only have one choice.
They had been distracted up until now with television and American culture which prospered through the oppression of other nations.
Americans allowed themselves to be fooled into using their military and economic dominance to seize resources of other nations and create expanding markets for American profiteers.
Now that technology, competition and conscience have evolved Americans are realizing that our current system of government is damaging and unsustainable.
Our government officials have allowed private profits and personal benefits to influence decisions that affect the health and well-being of people all over the planet, not just in America... how much longer will we allow them to rule over us??
Occupy Washington and demand that all government officials resign their posts.
We will setup new online elections with a verification system that will allow us to see our votes after we cast them, put our new officials in office and work toward rebuilding our country and our world.
Pass this message along to any and everyone, we already occupy the world, unite.
Occupy Washington, Boycott Capitalism, Force Change
http://wesower.org
Question. Let's say you succeeded in getting all government officials to resign their posts...and you succeed in tearing down our current system...
What exactly do you plan to replace it with? How do you expect the majority of US citizens to react to your "new" system? Where are you going to get all new officials that are 100% trustworthy AND 100% in favor of your "new" plan?
Tearing the system down without something already waiting to replace it with will result in chaos, violence, and complete destruction. Tearing down the system and replacing it with something that the majority of the people do not agree with, will result in chaos, violence, and complete destruction.
Doing nothing will be better?
wow...what a critical thinker you are....."either do it my way" or "do nothing at all". Brilliant.
How about you figure out what the crap you WANT to accomplish FIRST and go from there. You don't cure a patient with a brain tumor by ripping their brain out FIRST and then deciding what to do.
Already stated just read the posts.
so we support GM food then? This movement is getting so confusing.
Indeed. They might as well demand world peace.
or a resource based economy.
oh wait a sec
Haha, check this one out: http://occupywallst.org/forum/paradism/#comment-289511
A chat between a Raelian UFO cult member and a Zeitgeist cult member. I love this web site...
occupy bizarro world
I think I might add "Paradism" to my collection at Occupy Crackpots:
http://occupy-crackpots.tumblr.com/
I'm not sure if it's really over-the-top enough though.
Need help making a t-shirt. We need to draw a picture of Zooccotti Park with a cage around it. Here are some ideas: Draw a hippie climbing the cage like a monkey and throwing shit.
Draw a hippie rolling in mud and shit like a pig.
Draw a hippies fucking like dogs.
Draw a picture of a hippie eating peanuts like a big fucking elephant. Draw a hippie as a lazy fucking Ape doing nothing.
Just use a picture of yourself.
You have a kind chin.
Yours is better
You have a kind chin.
I have a good paper shredder over here. Send all your money and I will get rid of it for you at no cost.
So let's say there's a farmer living in a small town in New Mexico, and he wants to obtain a tractor. And the tractor factory is in Chicago. How do you propose that he obtain a tractor from the factory? How do the factory workers get paid, and how is the tractor delivered? And by what mechanism does the tractor factory obtain parts and materials from which to make tractors? And on what does everybody live during the periods in all of this between the time they start production (build a factory, grow a crop, etc.) and the time they actually have something valuable for trade or sale, and the time they actually get payment?
Your statement is completely vacuous. There's absolutely no substance there. If you've got a real theory behind this meaningless statement, let's hear about it.
We can actually start by getting out of Washington DC and leaving all it has come to represent behind. Operation clean slate. It is too much blood shed on the hands of every tax payer and voter in this country so it is hard to be any kind of civil. It would be very exciting for all of us to know this relief it becomes harder each day for common people to deal with be responsible for torture and killing kids and the long list of what need be just left behind to begin again.
Give it a stab then. Stop talking, go out somewhere and start a commune, or a barter-based local economy. What's stopping you other than your own intertia?
Who the f- are you to tell me not to work for my country. People like you are just a slight delay and what I am is WE so you shut it up
Well, that's great. I'm looking forward to seeing the results.
Well said. This planet is mine and yours just as much as it is the elitists who pull all the strings. It is time to use our critical thinking skills and explain to the 1% that we humans will not be derived of our natural right to evolve. This monetary system, profit and greed are the #1 reason for all of the man-made problems that exist. This is a crucial time in our history and we need to live smarter. Some think forceful, aggressive sentiments will sway the elitists, but I think we can get them to challenge their morals by understanding that eliminating the monetary system and transitioning to a resource-based economy which focuses on collaboration and cooperation will be beneficial to all humans. Please check out my blog and let's get this new life started sooner than later!......http://globalrejuvenation.blogspot.com/ @jbrilla
"For this to occur we must first become civilized" you proved your point on why this can not exist in our society
Are we civilized?
This is true but people are too scared to dream big.
Loon alert Loon alert Wooo, Woooo, Loon alert, Loon alert, Woo Wooo. Hey all you "pragmatists" in OWS. This movement is screwed!
Looney Toones has definately checked-in and out.
Seriously.
The only limits we face are the ones we set upon ourselves!
You want to talk about a cashless society--we are heading there and it will be through microchipping. It has been reported in the past that we will be heading towards a credit system where you earn so many credits and then have your hand or wherever you were microchipped scanned and the credits deducted. Microchipping has already been done through those who volunteered.
Here are some videos to watch.
http://youtu.be/ybKSwuIHvL8 ( a 2007 news report on MNBC news) http://youtu.be/yAvKDuYh_wQ ( a 2008 ABC news report) http://youtu.be/UDhDrFrs7as ( A 2009 advertisement for the microchip and it's benefits)
This is not a conspiracy theory, the technology is already in place and the intent to move forward with it has been made known. I am 100% against microchipping for religious and privacy reasons. Also, I simple don't trust a foreign object in my body--cancer concerns. I don't mean to scare you, but to provoke some deep thought on the subject matter: What about abuse by the gov't when you did something they disagree with (like participate in a protest like OWS). Your freedom will be GONE and it would be downright dangerous, your mc could be turned off as punishment so you can't buy and sell goods, or worse. I will leave this for you to think about.
I will close by saying in an ideal world, a cashless world would be wonderful, in this sick, sick, sick world--SCARY!!! So be careful what you wish for.
I understand your concerns, but I am not condoning that, I am talking about no money, no credit, no trading necessary: the only valuables will be the people.
Sorry, the sad fact is that there are too many greedy power-hungry people in this world who would revolt against the system you mentioned. Also, these kind of people don't have respect for their fellow man. Look at all the wars, genocide, hate crimes, and just day to day ordinary disrespect that goes on. I don't say this to be negative, but what you speak of is a utopian dream. I would love to see it happen, if only we could form our own country with like-minded people who embrace these values--yet there will always be the others out there who embrace the old worldly system and there is really not much you can do to change them. It is true, the love of money is the root of all evil, and there lies within our problem.
I know exactly what you are saying; and I think it will take many, many generations to reach a turning point even if we all started at this moment. Our individual change has to be internal before we can externalize these plans. Even in this day and age; I'm not sure that the most advanced, peaceful civilized people we have on this earth would even be prepared for a world of this nature. We truly are far from a civilized people.
Yes, your final sentence nailed it--we are far from a civilized people.
Well, I got to run. Thanks for the food for thought. Inspiring.
I guss we all just have to go back to using seashells. Agreed with dthompson below.
Why use anything?
Sandpirate is correct. We need to eliminate the monetary system. ThAgreat man onec said "from each by his ability, to each by his need" Words to live by.
No need for force. If they refused to comply we could use mass sit ins and other strategies to insure compliance. That's no more forceful than anything else we are doing right now.
Before we can make these changes, we must accept change ourselves and be adaptable.
First eliminate the corporations. Seize all corporate assets and reorganized them democratically from below in the interests of everybody rather than in the interest of a tiny group of share holders.
There shouldn't be seizures, this will be a movement of the people to include all people, there is no need for force.
...........
There are very well thought out ways of eliminating the monetary system, designed by people with intelligence that far surpasses the clever quips I see here. I'll just suggest that it's a better idea to reach past the neurotic need to appear smart and open ones mind to the possibility of living in a new world, than it is to continue a futile struggle in the world as we know it.
Albert Einstein said something like, "True greatness has always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -para
As clever as one thinks they sound when putting down revolutionary thought, they're never...nearly...as clever...as the thinker.
What gives this movement a bad rep isn't a new or different idea...it's fear.
If ones cowardice is more important to protect in ones frail ego, that's okay. Maybe the world can change around them anyway. I hope so.
If it's not time yet, to look past the world we think we know...it's damn close...and we better...soon.
Peace
Einstein also wrote that he had "neither the natural ability nor the experience to deal with human beings."
Why do you quote Einstein on politics - that's like quoting Lincoln on physics?
Thank you for Alberts words, and the other broken quotes from an unsound mind.
Okay, you are an idiot. I defer to the sounder judgement of the masses.
Karl Marx said this too. It didn't work in the USSR. Our Founding Fathers were brilliant b/c they understood human nature--people suck! We really should keep alive our democratic republic. That is, we should take back our democratic republic!
I have read the Communist Manifest; didn't care for it much. Our founding fathers saw our condition and drafted an idea to free us from a kingdom, how is this so foreign from what they proposed at the time?
The current monetary system will collapse on its own however what follows is a much tougher question to answer.
http://www.occupywallst.org/forum/end-game-possible-economic-changes-ahead/
Why not act before the crash?
The scenarios posed are in the link.
That is a good idea, trust me. I think it will come down to it but only later. People are simply not ready. These things take time. Our brainwashing took time. Awakening will, too.
a lot of people say that "it will take time" and they've been saying that since i was little. we only need to decide to make it happen; don't pass the responsibility to others (future generations).
Yasmine, more people educating and organizing, more faster we spread like viruses with "ideas of taking responsibility autonomously together from earth and taking care of each other".
More people doing same thing, more faster things moving forward.
To humanprogress and Spaceandgalaxies:
You have no idea how frustrated I am every second of my life to live in a world that is dying because of sleep-walking ostriches. I feel directly and individually responsible for the shape of the world, a feat that is too overwhelming for most. Everyone should take on that kind of responsibility instead of leaving it to the 'thinkers' and people who 'matter'.
I'm not trying to deny the evolution, nor am I being pessimistic. I am just stating what I have observed so far. It's until each individual changes that we can affect positivity as a whole. This revolution is one from the inside out. Let me give you a quote:
"Personal transformation can and does have global effects. As we go, so goes the world, for the world is us. The revolution that will save the world is ultimately a personal one." - Marianne Williamson
Hey,
Please pass this on if you agree. We are working on setting a date.
Force Change, Boycott Capitalism
until we have full government resignation and a new online voting system with verification so we can rebuild our country and eventually our world.
We know what the problem is, let us fix it and move forward together.
When you look at a republican or democrat, congress or FDA official, Judges and Justice Department, you see criminals.
Our corruption dates back decades to when those, who in trying to preserve slavery, had to find new ways to preserve it and so created a scientific and advanced form of slavery.
Only two components were required -- the illusion of freedom & choice and the taking away of the freedom to live off the land.
How else would you get a person to submit themselves to mind numbing or degrading work unless you oppress them into it.
Our current system is rooted in corruption and every attempt in preserving it involves manipulating human thought and turning people against one another.
In America the population has been transformed into two major voting groups but they only have one choice.
They had been distracted up until now with television and American culture which prospered through the oppression of other nations.
Americans allowed themselves to be fooled into using their military and economic dominance to seize resources of other nations and create expanding markets for American profiteers.
Now that technology, competition and conscience have evolved Americans are realizing that our current system of government is damaging and unsustainable.
Our government officials have allowed private profits and personal benefits to influence decisions that affect the health and well-being of people all over the planet, not just in America... how much longer will we allow them to rule over us??
Occupy Washington and demand that all government officials resign their posts.
We will setup new online elections with a verification system that will allow us to see our votes after we cast them, put our new officials in office and work toward rebuilding our country and our world.
Pass this message along to any and everyone, we already occupy the world, unite.
Occupy Washington, Boycott Capitalism, Force Change
http://wesower.org
Today technology is so much developed great that we can create allready nanomaterials.
This cannot be a serious post. WOW
This cannot be a serious question.
What a response!!!! You've convinced me of your beliefs! The lack of understanding of economics and reality in general is astounding from some of you.
We don't need an economic reality, we need a humanitarian reality void of hedge funds.
Stop talking kid. You're ignorant. Before you start posing ideas, bring stuff to the table. You just say sayings and analogies. "Hey, let's not have a monetary system!". I'm fed up with all these emotionally driven people on here, spewing freedom, justice, and fairness without being specific. There's no substance to what you are saying.
You want specifics, evidence, proof, and statistics to back an idea. Look around you and you'll have all you need. A year ago I would have shrugged this idea, or this thought off as crazy, but the more I tried to discredit it, the more I became convinced. I believe this will work, but I only speak for myself; this is obviously a collective endeavor.
For that you need a society filled with humanitarians. We don't have that.
that's what many people say but deep down, they are looking for a humanitarian society.
You have no proof of that. You have no evidence that all human beings define humanitarian the same way, much less desire it equally.
If they did, wouldn't we be living it now?
They're here, you're one of them.
FILLED with-as in ALL being. EVERY one.
This is an idea, it is a suggestion, it is a "let's put our heads together and make it a reality". It is all about "WE" not "me".
I graduated at the top of my class with a degree in economics and I think it's possible to abolish money.
Possible? Perhaps. Realistic? No. I'm in engineering so I have a little different view on things.
In your view, what's unrealistic about it?
I am in the technical field and I understand your view, this is just a few frequencies away.
That is a beginning!
Let's end bs and start focusing use science and brains and work together as adults toward betterment of earth and all life on earth and later in future space.
Taking care of each other and earth would not be so hard with technology what we have today. Today needs can be met easily, food water and shelter and "family". Family is what is missing today from earth community. So let's become big family. ;)
Hydroponic and aquaponic farming is greatest technology to make lots of food in very less time 24/24.
What best, we can automate this process so there is less people needed to watch these things so more people can focus on more science stuff to figure out how to help ourselves get educated and become adults who will take responsibility from earth autonomously without babysitting needed.
We need resources, money is numbers. One said, i can't eat money but i can eat food. One said, grow food instead of stockpiling more money. ;)
End the Federal Reserve System which placed the issuance of credit and currency under the control of private banks. The just purpose of private enterprise is economic gain.
And what will facilitate commerce then? Beads?
what commerce are you talking about when the proposal is to eliminate money. use your power of imagination and creativity.
You're going to "imagine" a gallon of milk when your kids need to be fed? "Just close your eyes, kids, and visualize the milk..."
The plan is to generate answers; apparently this is beyond the scope of sarcastic remarks and the viewpoints of some.
The plan is to generate answers; apparently this is beyond the scope of sarcastic remarks and the viewpoints of some.
"The plan is to generate answers." What does that even mean? It would probably be a good idea to have these answers before adding the elimination of the monetary system to the demand list.
Everyone wants a nice, pretty package of complete instructions to follow so they don't have to plan or think for themselves, this is an idea to build upon. How can we learn by being told what to do?
Revert to wampum!!!!
I agree. We need to eliminate the monetary system so that we can move forward, because without moving forward we are standing still, or worse, moving backwards. And since we don't have eyes in the back of our political heads, moving backwards is detrimental to our nation as a democratic society.
[Removed]
Can you explain how that would work? Did you watch too much of the original Star Trek as a kid? I liked the show too but I knew it was fiction.
If you set aside the sarcasm and utilized your unbiased mind you could get a glimpse of an answer.
Fair enough. I shouldn't have had the sarcasm. However your statements, to my mind, are full of glittering generalities with no specifics. Could you explain what you mean?
Before that can happen, we as a people must accept that we are all in this together. Individually we must accept responsibility for ourslves and for our responsibility to society. Once we eliminate the monetary system we will be performing our duties/jobs as we do now, but there will be no haves or have nots because we will all share in the betterment of society.
The benefit of us all working together for our collective cause will allow us to plan and succeed together as humans.
I would definitely not be sitting here at 7 PM on a Friday at my workstation, dealing with keeping web servers online, after staying up last night until 2 AM doing the same thing, if somebody were not paying me to do it. Are you one of the Zeitgeist cult people that everybody would just continue to do what they do now if money were eliminated?
There is no one in this world that would prefer to work nights or revovlve coverage? We do this now!
I've been at my workstation since I got up at 7 AM. After working until 2 AM last night. I would not be doing this if I were not getting paid.
Are all of your utilities and your mortgage paid for you now?
They're paid because I work hard. What's your point?
If you didn't have to pay them what would be the difference if you worked?
Yes that was my point. I wouldn't work if I weren't getting paid for it.
Again, specifics are needed for this to make sense. What are the incentives? Does the ipad get developed in a system without reward for innovation? There will always be some segments of society more ambitious than other segments. It is the flaw of communism that it assumed this was transitory and not the nature of humans.
The incentives...a residence, water, sewer, food, gas, medical care, child care...you still work, you still perform, you still enjoy.
Who do you think is more likely to underperform, the people who ask this question, or the people who don't? For this to work as a society we all must live by example and sacrifice our shortcomings so that others may aspire to do the same. This is no easy task, but it can be done, but each of us must have the ability to:
Forgive our debtors.
Lay down our arms and use them to embrace a total stranger in need.
Erase our prejudices and personal judgments and accept one another as we really are.
Realize that giving of ourselves makes us happier than all of the riches in the world.
So, after we all have water, sewer, food, gas, medical care, child care, etc, who develops innovations like the internet you are posting or the smartphone on your belt? Where is the incentive to do that? How does that happen? Or are you suggesting a time of no innovation?
Your ideas seem easy to say for someone currently warmed and cooled by business, connected via the internet and phone by business, and provided food and shelter by business.
Why einstein, tesla and other people in history did do many things "what people didn't ask about" to be done?
Why they used so much time to research things what interested them most and people didn't ask them to do that?
Exactly, they wanted to research and share their research with people on earth. They wanted, that's where all began.
You see today also people who doing research and sharing research information with people just because they want. (They don't get paid but they don't care about that because they see it fun to research something and share information with earth)
Why would business and our society have to come to a screeching halt? Why would eveyone close up shop and not perform their functions any longer?
Are you saying that no one loves what they do? There is nobody that will assist society to better itself for themselves, their neighbors, and their children? I have more faith in people than that, people want to be needed and will give of themslves to make the world a better place.
Yes, I am saying that with no personal incentive MANY people will work the absolute minimum they can get away with.
What are their incentives now?
Money, raises, getting ahead...
Are you really asking a serious question?
You honestly think that people work only for the common good and not based on incentives. Last night I took me, my girlfriend, her two daughters, three of my kids and two significant others of theirs out to dinner. It was great. It was a lot of fun. It was also expensive as hell. In a "moneyless" society, I doubt that I would A. Be able to afford this and B. that the option would even be available. What is the incentive to open a high end restaurant in a moneyless society?
Raises now? Getting ahead of who? The guy next door who's house is worth $3.00 more than yours? Oh yeah, you might win the lottery(that's what everyone wishes for) I think my odds are better.
Try take all isms away and think things scientifically little time at by yourself.
Ask question about yourself: What is about human needs?
And i ask you to think that question scientifically and what it exactly means in your mind. Forget all isms and think it more way like "you are alone on the planet and you thinking what you need", how you get them and how you create them and later on selecting things what you need really and not really.
Make small adventure in mental reality for yourself. ;)
But that isn't reality. Sure we could go to a society where all our basic needs are met (food, water, shelter). Is this the best you hope for us? Answer my questions on the previous post if you really are serious. You do realize the very medium you use to suggest what you want would have been impossible in a money free society, right?
Why would our society be so different? Our lives would be very much like it is today; the difference is that our decisions won't be profit driven. Our technologies and medical advancements etc. will not be dampened by lack of financial support. Our goals will be common.
What leap of faith suggests that our society would work similar as to today if you take all the incentive out of employment? So, the dry cleaning business down the street is going to stay open when I want something dry cleaned when he could be sitting around, drinking a brew and watching a rerun of Law and Order with no real incentive to do so? Oh wait, there won't be any Law and Order because the people running the local TV station have no reason to work either. Either you are VERY young or you are a plant to discredit the movement. Your ideas can only work in very small groups that all know each other and hence feel accountable to each other. Factor in ANY degree of anonymity to the equation and it falls apart. You may wish human behavior didn't work like this, but it does.
You can eliminate the monetary system and there will STILL be people who have something that others do not have. It just won't be money anymore.
And what about the people who don't want to work towards the collective cause? What do you plan to do with them?
Meets like food, water, shelter and family as earth community is needed between timeline of removing monetary system and constructing new kind system over it to "get toward new kind society system". Otherwise, all will be staying middle of this all thinking what is their life purpose about.
Journey is about education. Adventure toward new kind society is part of self education. ;)
We still perform our functions as we do today.
You are correct, the monetary elimination will be easier than the human factor. What do you suggest?
I suggest you wait to get all excited about removing what is already in place UNTIL you have figured that part out as well.
So you are going to sit back and let me figure it out? Where does collective fit into this? If this is for all of us, then we should plan together. Don't you agree?
Planning together is great plan, i agree.
Yep. That's how HUMAN BEINGS are. We are not a "HUMAN UNIT" we are INDIVIDUALS. As long as your solution demands that people sacrifice their individuality on behalf of a "collective", you will never achieve one.
You aren't part of a family?
A family is a "unit" made up of individuals.
OK, when did I say there was no individuality?
Out of this collapse must emerge a quantum leap in representative government or we will end up with the same corruption and public apathy that we have now!!!!
Is that the same as; we have met the enemy and they are us?
We can make a change, or remain a community of us and them...
I'm optimistic on OWS and how it has grown.
I'm not optimistic on the outcome. More than likely it will be trumped.
An old saying: If you can't beat'em, lead'em.
I said the same thing at 15
Yeah, 15 is about right, but definitely exiting 9th grade at the latest.
Pizzazz Picasso and the Killumination - Killuminati ft. Gaje http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLUpGGmku8g
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Pizzazz Picasso and the Killumination - The all seeing eye http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgKS4i-u0OM
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can you tell me how to get . how to get to sesame street
I'm cool with that as long as you make me king.
King of your household as long as your spouse agrees.
Well yea that's what I meant.
I am doing well in this system. Why should I ask for change?
What about tomorrow, or the next day, or the next? Will you be secure when you are old? What about your family, your children? We need to step aside from the "ME" and look at the big picture. This is one small action in a movement that will outlast all of us. If we wish to consider ourselves as civilized people then we need to step up and make changes not excuses.
I will be pretty secure. That much is certain. As for my kids, I am raising them to be a part of the 1% so that they are secure as well.
If you're happy and you have no worries then have a great day!
I am sorry that others have worries. If wages were lower then no one would have to worry and everyone would have a job.
You must be young because there are worries money cannot change.
You mean the kind of worries the 1% has?
No, the kind that cannot be cured, or medicated away...
Like what?
Because there is a sword hanging over our job status, it may fall, it may swing, but who needs it there? Corporations are laying off and ourtsourcing while posting the highest profits in history. If you are one of them, then please send a few million my way, but if you are not, then hold on to your job, because they are not doing this for economic reasons, it is the intentioal infliction of anxiety, and look at the mess it is causing.
I am one of them, and it is done to boast profits, and no other reason. Look, all we need is lower wages in the USA and then jobs can stay here. What's wrong with that?
Lower wages to raise productivity? Eventually when all societies welcome social status there will be no one to work for your wages, at this point it is too late to change.
Not to raise productivity, just to ensure that Americans have jobs.
Jobs to live or barely survive?
Let's first get the jobs.
You first, if you think you are immune from the trend of reducing your buying power, you are sadly mistaken, this time it is computer driven, not a nice old man at the top who thinks you are worth your pay. When the signs of an inhuman actioin arise, then it is only a matter of time before it affects you and the ones you love, and me. It is on automatic, it moves down, it moves up the line. History proves this without fail. Oh yea, one more thing, since when does American business stand for making incredible profits anyway? With that attitude, nothing would have been built during the industrial revolution, they would have never put their chips on the table if some one told them they'd one day rule the world...they would consider that person a nut.
There is no way 5% of the world's population in America is forever going to consume 30% of the resources. That's inevitable. So yes purchasing powers will drop in the USA as it will rise in China. Nothing can be done about it, even though Americans would love to have the Chinese starve while Americans remain rich. That's the OWS movement.
Say that again? Money is a means of exchange, that is all, because carrying around gold in one's pockets didn't work, and carrots and turnups wilted and made messy stains on our clothes. Holding on to large sums just stopps up the system and inflation does the rest. It is a process, not Stop the World I've Made Enough, try holding your breath because you think you have enough air now. Same principale, very simple, and as for resources, man has solved every problem for hundreds of thousands of years, but now can't put two coins together and make change, we have solutions to resource problems, and believe it or not, the Chinese like China and don't want to live here, and we don't really want to live there, either. They have solved tgheir problems for centuries.
I have no idea what you are talking about.
Wages, and prices need to rise and fall in perfect consort for your idea to work. lowering wages, impoverishes the work staff, and productivity falls off. Sewing fear into the labor market by laying off workers just because of labor costs, is like sawing off your finger just because you have a scrape. Employers can improve output, change production capital, build a better mousetrap, but to take the easy way out and denude their own labor force is just not in any corporate business plan that I've ever read or written, it's what pretend managers do to pretend that they have an education in management.
Marketing doesn't understand operations.
OK, but there is a huge cushion of liquid cash available to these corporations laying off workers with their eye on austerity. Would stock holders sanction the thrashing of any computer that frustated the office workers, just throw it against the wall, and if it doesn't fix the problem, then toss it out the window. Of course not, but they are thrashing the confidence of their workers, intentionally inflicting emotional stress on the most valuable capital the corporations own, their customer confidence and loyalty. In China, and other third world economies, it is rumored that US patents are being stolen by line workers who spy for emerging overseas corporations, because who can be loyal for a pair of chop sticks and a few strips of tofu at the payhouse?
I agree that consumer confidence is low. I agree that loyalty comes from holding a steady job. That's why I think wages have to drop so that we have a job growth boom in the USA. The insecurity you talk about is because of high wages for Americans. If wages here were low no one would be laid off.
So as you avoided question about society, let's ask real question.
What your children are for you?
Vladimir, it looks to me that your love toward your children is money based and not exactly real emotional love. You use money as an excuse to not use more time with your children.
So i ask you, would you like to live in society where you could spend whole day or so long as you want with your children because needs would be met because people around earth would help sustain production of food, water, etc. They would care your and family survivability even if you don't ask them to do that, they would do it because they see you equal?
You most likely would do some jobs but somekind jobs where you can be with your own bloodline family most of time and show things. Educate your children sametime how this ion-propulsion engine working or how large hadron collider is used to create many materials just to crashing atoms together in tube.
But we do business in the environment of the here and now, not what it should be, workers are not stupid, and they already know they are being short changed by major employers. I just googled the subjecg, Confidential Information and Trade Secrets, and was reading a great article on corporations experiencing a great rise, especially overseas in patent and ip stealing. No choice than playing straight with the working staff. Let them eat cake don't work any more.
What you support more? "Parents spending more time with their children" or "parents spending more time working long hours" coming weak and tired home and tomorrow go back to do same work and weekend they are so tired and in pain from all places that they want just sleep?
I didn't avoid any questions. Parents are supposed to raise their kids at any cost. That may mean work, even though I understand that you don;t like work that much. But goofing off while depending on others to provide you and your family with a good life (as you prefer) is not setting a good example for your kids.
As for my kids, they are my kids so I will do anything and everything to make sure they succeed in life. That's about it.
I would rather have my kids go to school, then go to a great college, then have a super great career, and have their own friends and their own life as independent adults.
Children will be grateful when they grow up that their parents worked to support them rather than stay without a job.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLUpGGmku8g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SMrnx6nkRw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wg1bH6-1YY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgKS4i-u0OM
http://www.reverbnation.com/Killumination
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Eliminate money? Sure. " hey doc, thanks for the kidney transplant...here's my pet pig. " Call it even"?
Won't need to do that.
please go home guys. Your villages are missing their idiots.
That will get you far in life.