Forum Post: The Implied Power Inherent In OWS
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 2, 2011, 1:17 p.m. EST by aahpat
(1407)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
When politicians get a letter or see a crowd in the street they calculate how many like-minded people there are who have not written letters or marched in the street but who will vote in sympathy to that letter or crowd.
A political analyst once told me that politicians look a a phone call as representing a certain number like-minded people who haven't called. A hard copy letter, because it takes more effort than a phone call, might represent a larger number of like-minded constituents who would vote in agreement with the way the letter writer expressed themselves. A hundred people in the street in front of the representative's office means there are thousands of like-minded constituents in the community. Family, friends, neighbors all being influenced by the actions of that person who is audacious or brave enough to march in the street.
Its all about proportionality with the politicians.
This is why OWS marching in the streets in large numbers is so vital going into the election season. That OWS can not only get people into the streets but keep crowds in the streets for months on end sends a powerful message about the scale and intensity of voter anger and voter sympathy toward the social and economic justice values represented by OWS marchers.
There is a powerful implication in these marches, encampments and other actions that millions of Americans are just as angry and for he same reasons. Implications that politicians fear will carry into the election year.
OWS has a massive power in its hands right now. And an opportunity to change America for the better no matter how much money Wall Street throws in the way.
Make that OWS clenched fist represent OWS seizing the power that the crowds and actions represent.
Very true.
I think OWS has the ability to unite all of the people weather liberal or conservative, which has many politicians scared shitless.
By NOT fitting into one or two little boxes, OWS keeps politicians from manipulating this movement.
The politicians know that OWS is angry. And that OWS is focused on political corruption. This is why, I am sure, the bill in Congress to stop insider trading by congress people has moved into the legislative schedule like a hot knife through butter. And more important, OWS anger at political corruption is why the media is starting to pay attention to issues like insider trading in Congress. It has gone on forever. It is an issue now.
OWS is succeeding.
Yes, and the National General Assembly, to anyone running in 2012, is OWS on steroids.
But to insure continued success:
If you remember Ross Perot, there's a lot involved in starting a political party. Ross had money, the 99% have 300,000,000 votes. My reasoning for supporting the Declaration and the NGA concept goes like this: The occupations gave birth to the movement and were tremendously successful. The NYCGA led the way and like it or not, they are the de-facto leaders. (Here's the test: If Occupy DenverGA announced that there was going to be an NGA in July in Philly, who would notice? If the NYCGA made the same announcement every media outlet in the world would be on the story.) So the de-facto leaders do the democratic thing, on consensus, and endorse the NGA as per the 99% Declaration so there is a process to divest themselves of their untenable dictatorship. They would and should welcome this relief.
The NGA effectively puts both the Republican and Democratic parties between a rock and a hard place. Delivering the List of Grievances as the 2012 campaigns are in full swing means candidates are going to have to start answering hard questions. Thus, in order to attract the 99r votes, they are going to have to start competing with each other. OWS will have a profound impact on the 2012 election, and the NGA establishes the framework to keep that pressure on. If promises are broken, if The List is ignored, the NGA reconvenes and moves OWS/99% to the next level, the independent third party.
And if an ART V Convention is required, 100% of Americans will know about it through the voice of the NGA.
Would someone please explain to me why this is a bad idea?
I don't like the GA model. Its too much like a party and I am anti political party.
The July meeting misses the most significant part of the election cycle, the primaries. The primaries is when OWS can be getting politicians to commit because a factional group like OWS can be a winning or losing margin in a primary election. Much more than in the general election.
You 300-million number is ludicrous. Total 2008 turnout was 62.2% of the eligible population or 132,645,504 Americans actually voting.
I assume you mean NGA model as per the 99% Declaration, not GA as at each #occupy.
I can see your point about the primaries. I guess the working group considered that and maybe they didn't feel there was enough time to prepare a NGA before the primaries, but OWS/99% can still have an impact on the primaries if it was widely known that the National General Assembly was going ahead. This is why it is so important that the NYCGA do what they must do SOON. OWS runs the risk of being all but forgotten by Primary season if NYCGA fails and hence little to zero influence.
Could you view the 99 'party' as a party of independents? I too (all of us?) share a negative feeling about 'party politics' but the 99 could redefine what that means. Just a thought. As it stands there is no alternative to Repub/Dem party so as much as it's disliked there are no options I'm aware of at this time. Remember, an independent 3rd party may not be required. It depends on how the government responds to the List of Grievances.
Yea, sorry about the # I was thinking 99% of the population when I should have been thinking 99% of eligible voters. So 99% of eligible # is about 212,000,000. The point was that, as you stated beautifully in your topic, Wall St can throw all the $$$ at RepubliCrats it wants, OWS/99% is a Tsunami.
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
Agreed.
Yep, and it has gotten people to finally to think for themselves
People I know are writing letters to editors and calling there congressmen, An I do mean normal run of the mill people. But they are just plain fed up with the corruption, too bad it had to get to this point before people noticed.
That is great to hear.
The OWS is inciting more democracy even as many of its activists denounce and disavow democracy.
If OWS got political it would overwhelm anything that has happened in American politics in the past forty years. It is more powerful than the Civil Rights Movement. More mainstream than the anti Vietnam movement.
I may have prodded them a little with some satire from time to time
wink wink
But first they laugh, then think, hey that really wasn't funny there .....
the ability is there but will it be used or not is the question eventually the OWS movement will be pigeon holed as one thing or another then it will begin to fade. To stop it from fading it needs direction and clear purpose, and clear goals. OWS people agree have the ability to unite different peoples, but they speak with so many voices that no one can give in to their demands because no one seems to know what the demands really are except what the press has said that was not flattering.
The reason there are "so many voices" is because of this "leaderless movement" idea. History is not on the side of OWS in that regard. While it is understood that leader/s will be obvious targets of any movement, in order to move to the next level with clearly defined goals, a common purpose and solutions a leader/s must be elected. No organization that was leaderless has ever been taken seriously, no matter how legitimate their concerns were.
The working group on the 99% Declaration can organize the National General Assembly and they clearly state that is all they are doing. 876 delegates are tasked with giving the OWS/99% movement a voice. The 876 'leaders' are elected.
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
you agree with me this OWS needs a set of demands and a leader so the organization can react more quickly. But they want a leaderless revolt, how does that work? MOB violence like in Egypt????.
I respectfully disagree
If it were true, then the STOCK act wouldn't be sailing through congress.
the stock act is sailing thru partly because of press coverage and partly because of OWS they are doing damage control hiding the truth from us. OWS did not do enough but they did some that's good. Improve the focus on one problem at a time and lets get this done.
I think that anger at political corruption by the predatory anarchists and anti democracy subversives of Wall Street is a pretty clear and unequivocal message that even America's densest media grasp of OWS.
The politicians certainly understand it. And see that it is both a left and right concern in America today.
anger at political corruption is something that should draw ALL people of the US together. Next anger at banks that produce nothing and get all the interest money.
The fastest way to change the culture of the banks is to get rid of the politicians who give them sweetheart regulations and then don't enforce even those regulations.
Here is a compilation of current members of Congress who, in 1999, voted to repeal Glass-Steagall, lower regulatory control of "toxic" derivatives and loosen lending standards allowing banks to write predatory mortgages. All of it was done in one piece of legislation in 1999. The Gramm-Leach-Bliley fnancial Services Modernization Act.
SEE: The Congress that Crashed America http://home.ptd.net/~aahpat/aandc/congcrash.html
and if we the people had got to vote on that bill would we the people have passed that law? We the people need to become the 4th branch of government to balance the other 3 now THINK ABOUT THAT fer a minute. This is big enough idea for discussion.
I have no problem with America's representative democracy. It is the corruption of it by Wall Street anti democracy subversives that pisses me off.
a 4th branch of government would make corruption very hard as we the people would have the last say if a bill was passed. Then if a corp wants a special law they would have to buy every voter in the land. The people get control back. Its more the banks than wall street as the main problem but they all work together.
You are setting an impossible goal that will have ZERO impact on the elections starting in just weeks.
I am focused on reality. The here and now.
Considering how poorly people vote sometimes I see no advantage to having the whole population voting on every piece of legislation. That would include the naming of every freakin post office and bridge. Hundreds of pieces of legislation each year. And what about state legislation? Do we have direct democracy for the thousands of pieces of legislation that come out of the state houses? We would need elections every month. With all of the corruption and politicing that go with each issue and every underhanded clause in each piece of legislation.
It is much easier and more possible just to make the existing system work right.
why do we need so many new laws every year? do the politicians just need to do something to earn their pay? the 10 commandments are not re-written each year with 100's of new amendments, why should our laws change every year? Do you change your rules for your children every year? if you did how would they react? Would you have a harder time to get them to follow the rules if you change them often? THINK we only need to vote on what is really important like the pay rates for senators or their fringe benefits, or infringements into our civil liberties, questions like should pot be legal, or the way we tax, and what we spend on or not are things that the people should vote on every year. Or have no say in government and just TRUST THEM with the purse strings and power of new law, unsupervised.
Reality for 300,000 people in one nation and fifty states is not simple. Nor is it static.
How is that Christianity thing going these days? The ten Commandments are a joke. And their concept only applies to Christians. Religious law is horrific specifically because it is so static.
my point is the law was 10 lines long for a long time. It was simple, people could understand the rules in a few minutes. We have "moved away" from all that now. Is it better or worse now? Static laws are not bad. You know tomorrow what the law will be. When laws always change, one year you can take 10 fish a day and then next yer it is 5. I prefer laws that don't change with the wind.
I'm not sure if talking about the weather is allowed on these forums, but I agree it was a nifty strategy for OWS to remain aloof. However, I think everyone understands OWS is an anarcho-communist protest. No?
Oh no it's not. everyone here has heard has heard me quote presidents from reagan to Ike, and have respected my views.
And I've listened to, and agree with people that quote FDR and Kennedy.
And thats what scares you trolls, because the parties of lincoln and FDR wouldn't recognize the shams we have today. So you try to label us commies or anarchists, though we uphold those that fought off BOTH anarchy and communism.
Thus you earn the trollish label. You espouse trade with COMMUNIST china, and espouse ideologies that lead to anarchy.
Like my Grandpa used to say "the witch-hunter is usually the biggest witch"
That's why satirizing you is sooo easy, heck you do it to yourself....
The only real anarchists in America are the Wall Street libertarians and their greed is good at any cost democracy subversion by corrupting our Congress.
Wow! You sure are emotional. I was just wondering why you used the word weather instead of whether. And, I honestly thought the people around here already knew OWS is anarcho-communist. No need to throw ad hominems around or to indulge in romantic rants. Just keep it to a clean debate. I asked a simple question, nothing more. I didn't insult anybody.
I think that not very many people understand much about the OWS movement. I think that OWS also does not know what to fight for, yet.
Yes!
The numbers DO
have power!
You can beg for change or you can actually make a change. If workers don't like working conditions, they form a union and make a change. Voters can do the same thing with a voters union. No need for a third party. No more pleading with elected officials to do the right thing and hoping for candidates to keep their promises. Take control of them from the very start. Either you undertake the responsibility of having a government of the people, or you continue with the same old irresponsibility of voting for anyone out there who's subject to being bought out by the same corporate interests to already own the Democratic Republican party.
You can't just vote for people to make decisions for you and expect them to actually make decisions for YOU. As long as they are free to serve their own interests by serving the interests of big money, they will betray you every time.
Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it. -George Bernard Shaw
A voter union implies like-minded people. That would be a political party.
I prefer that all voters have access to the same information about the politicians and make up their own minds rather than be locked into the mob rule of any political group.
A voter's union does not imply like-minded people. It implies people across party lines who can agree on what to hold a candidate to for representing their district and voting on whatever they cannot agree upon to determine an elected representative's position on the matter.
What?
Union of American Voters http://occupywallst.org/forum/union-of-american-voters/
The problem is 50% don't vote and many do not care if nothing is affecting their ability to survive right now. OWS requires new ideas never done before to shake people out of their slumber. Unfortunely, the movement is running on borrowed time once the military gets involved in stopping it.
That is not true. 62.2% participated in the last presidential election.
The military is not going to get involved in enforcement against OWS. That is silly.
Both new ideas and old ideas used in new ways will keep OWS dynamic. And oppression will only strengthen its resolve.
Well good, that is more then it used to be and yes, militiary will get involved if OWS attempts to increase their voice.