This Site Has Nothing To Do With Us
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 6, 2011, 11:48 a.m. EST by OccupyWallSt
We are not a political institution.
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This photo on the site looks like something corporations or the Tea Party would have on their site. This the sort of image they would use for "united we stand, divided we fall" to rally us towards waging illegal wars...that website is disgusting. We likely do need to be politically engaged but we should not be acting in ways that preserves this very political 2 party system/structure that was designed to put various checks and balances on serving broader interests of people...we should be offering something new to the table, new approaches that better meet our needs. The 2 party structure is a total failure and is too easy for elites and corporations to buy off...
We absolutely need to get rid of a two-party system. There can be no accountability when our best choice is the lesser of two evils...
"Eradicating political polarity" http://detters2cents.wordpress.com/2011/10/03/eradicating-political-polarity/
Australia has a more effective 2 party system.. What needs to be changed is the campaign / party funding ...
3 party systems are unstable
There is a way to achieve what you both want. CUT OFF THE MONEY! WHY? Because .....Money is the Root of al Evil! Now wait,,,WAIT......I'm sure you have all heard this phrase. So if it is true....then to accomplish your goal of stopping Greed and the Evil that invades Wall Street and our Government.......CUT OFF THE MONEY! Stop the relationships between Corporate American and our Government. Amend the Constitution to have, "Separation of Corporation and State" Corporations are not People. They can not vote in an election and should not have a financial influence on our Government. Cut off the link between the two, namely Taxes and Lobbyist. Corporations should not pay taxes. People pay taxes. Corporation now just pass the cost of taxation on to the consumer in the price of their goods and services. No Taxes on Corporation is better business and then they have no say in Government. Tax all people Fairly. More on how to achieve this later.
Good ideas, I'd love to see your proposals for how to accomplish this though. I don't think it can be done on the streets, but must be done by occupying gov't positions, from w/in the system. And are our current politicians going to make those changes?
First we need to abolish the Law that gave Corporation the right to fund campaigns, parties, and lobbyist. They are always looking for tax favors and incentive to stay in a paticulare state or even in America. Otherwise they will have to move someplace where they can compete on a global scale. If we didn't tax corporations, what business would they have to be involved with Government. I believe that this would break the major link between the two. Other than that they would only want free range to the free market to sell anything under false pretenses as the old snake oil saleman claiming "this will cure everythin" Here is were we need laws to protect the buyer (consumer). This is what happened in 2008 and the home mortgages. No control and sell homes like snake oil.
So now lets say they can not fund campaigns and parties, because we've change the laws to were only people can vote and support campaigns and parties. (that's because corporation can't really vote therefore they should hot be able to support them financially). Next is the Taxing of Corporations issue. This can be very benefical in many ways. To address many of the same concerns listed in the list of demands or goals. Please become familiar with this grassroots movement that needs a new spark of life that has been going against the establishment for years. It address all the following:
It is the Fair Tax Act (HR 25, S 13). It abolishes all federal personal and corporate income taxes, gift, estate, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security, Medicare, and self-employment taxes and replaces them with one simple, visible, federal retail sales tax administered primarily by existing state sales tax authorities. It is a nonprofit, nonpartisan, grassroots organization solely dedicated to replacing the current tax system. The organization has hundreds of thousands of members and volunteers nationwide. Its plan supports sound economic research, education of citizens and community leaders, and grassroots mobilization efforts. What is the FairTax Plan? The FairTax Plan is a comprehensive proposal that replaces all federal income and payroll based taxes with an integrated approach including a progressive national retail sales tax, a prebate to ensure no American pays federal taxes on spending up to the poverty level, dollar-for-dollar federal revenue replacement, and, through companion legislation, the repeal of the 16th Amendment. This nonpartisan legislation (HR 25/S 1025) abolishes all federal personal and corporate income taxes, gift, estate, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security, Medicare, and self-employment taxes and replaces them with one simple, visible, federal retail sales tax – administered primarily by existing state sales tax authorities. The IRS is disbanded and defunded. The FairTax taxes us only on what we choose to spend on new goods or services, not on what we earn. The FairTax is a fair, efficient, transparent, and intelligent solution to the frustration and inequity of our current tax system. For more information visit the Web page: www.FairTax.org or call 1-800-FAIRTAX.
If you have any further question, I will try to help.
Impressive, and comprehensive. This is really one of the first detailed plans I've seen. I think this is the type of legislation that needs proper representation. Grassroots efforts are vital, but I don't really see this being passed by our current representatives in our current system. There's no incentive for either party, or anyone in government for that matter to push this or support this. This is the type of legislation that a new party could very-well build a ticket on, garner support with, and pass into law.
http://detters2cents.wordpress.com/
I agree, we the people need to get behind something and force a vote and get signatures to get this or any other referendum on the ballot.
Please explain why you think a three party system is unstable? There are many successfully functioning multi-party governments around the world. Also, I don't think it's realistic to think that our current parties are going to change how they run things. Democratic and Republican politicians enjoy an unparalleled level of power and influence from how things are being run now. Why would they want to change that?
Also, I agree that the campaign/party funding system needs to be drastically changed. But again, I don't think the republican and democratic parties are going to change it themselves. That's where I think there needs to be at least one new party introduced to more even disperse power, take it out of their hands, and instigate these changes.
A peoples party for what is Right for the Majority of Americans!
Occupy WallStreet are doing a great work and billions of people support you and depend on your success. Do not give up and you will win.
However I think that only demonstrations and protests will not solve our problems and our big disaster. You need all to be organized in one party who will be ready to lead the world to change our criminal system/s to the only legal and correct system. A system based on our true human rights and our human values including justice, caring and love, because without these there is no system and no solution.
We are now not only wasting 95% of our precious resources but we are salves of crime and a criminal system that is killing slowly but surely our earth and all of us with it. A system that kills billions of people is nothing but criminal and we should not support it or even accept it.
We tried all kind of systems from extreme right to extreme left and the result is a bankrupt world, a dying earth and billions of victims all around us. Money and the system were always more important than the human and his earth. Accepting this is stupidity and a crime and is exactly the problem.
Our votes, taxes, work and even silence are empowering an evil system that makes money more important than us; this is stupidity, incitement to crime , slavery and huge crime; "our" system is exploiting and killing us and our earth. Your vote and money are killing people through injustice : dehumanization, unlimited greed, unemployment, bankruptcy, poverty, hunger, incitement to crime, a gambling economy, the gambling industry, ruthless and unnecessary competition, insecurity, depression, discrimination, pollution, wastage of resources, occupations, wars, terrorism and all the illnesses and pollution that come with all these crimes.
Injustice and poverty force the people, including children, to a life of deprivation or crime and in both cases this a big crime against all of us. Injustice gives us only crimes, wars and terrorism. We and our governments know and agree on the correct system for us. We all brag about goodness and how good we are. We all say that we love our country, all the people and our earth. We all are prepared to give our life for our country and for the good things we believe in. Our governments claim that our system is caring with all our human rights are respected. It seems we all say that our system is a system of love, caring, justice and goodness yet we all instead are doing the opposite; we worship money and we are its slaves and the slaves of all its crimes; our work and power are continuously hurting the humans and our earth.
The only logical system that works is as simple as to work as little as possible so that we can enjoy the world. This means to cooperate (not compete) to produce in the most efficient way and the best quality only the things that we need with a lot of food armed with, love, full employment and the latest technologies including robots. We can easily use robots to do most of our work so that we have time to enjoy our lives
This means to be extremely rich and happy on a peaceful and healthy earth where pain, fear and suffering are things of the past; together we can do it now. We have all the intelligence, resources and power needed to do this; our mother earth is abundantly rich; we only lack the necessary wisdom & the political will.
This is not a dream, utopia or only a theory that has no practical application. Theory and practice are one integrated process. Without the right theory you can never build a machine, let alone a system that runs and protects our world and the precious life in it. The choice is between life and crime and we cannot choose crime because our governments tell us it is practical.
1.) National Wi-Fi (Access to information, it will also circulate the millions paid for the service into the economy.) 2.) Green Energy, Water and Resource Act. ( Aimed at reducing water, and electricity bills to Free. A one time product purchase to power houses ) 3.) High Speed Rail System (To connect the cities and create jobs) 4.) Technology Grant (For every person over 18 only redeemable to purchase computer device made by an American company) 5.) Electric Car Act (Mass production of a single electric car standard) Model T... 6.) Land Act. (Owner laws of unoccupied land must be examined in aim of selling land to people for reasonable prices to develop green communities that grow their own food) 7.) Wholistic Healthcare Reform Act (approach medicine from all angles including preventive and natural remedies while also focusing on reducing cost. ) 8.) Education Reform (School Age Change, Three Year Old Pre K Four Year Old School Age. Early Focus on Math and Sciences.) 9.) Small Business Investment Act (Give small business a chance to rebuild the nation, big business has seemed to fail) 10.) Increase In Global PR (Let us stop spending more money on war than we do on humanitarian campaigns)
Here is a list of demands that will change our economy, our lives, and the world. More details into these Acts and demands coming soon but for now this is what we need, not what we want.
I am digging these proposals...my only concern is somehow if this can be done to also not produce a few all powerful business entities at the end, perhaps it can be done to involve many workers and companies? The Wifi is interesting however I have been hearing that our health standards on wifi and cell signal exposure may be lagging behind. Overall I like these proposals and big ups on the public transport and anything to address sustainable solutions. Food, water and the environment need to be protected and I think those proposals could be done in such a way...Perhaps we could slap a fat tax on oil with a price ceiling of some sort? I just thought that may be a way to force decrease in profit and avoid passing higher prices on to consumers for oil and gas...this could give a real urgency to coming out with alternatives, rather than ignoring or suppressing alternatives. The oil companies themselves might actually get active in that area themselves...
Thanks, those are my exact thoughts.
Your list is eery.
TL;DR
One should not rush organizing into a party. Solutions can be posed, intelligent minds from all around the world should offer them. But in the meantime, we need to continue to unify, connect, and share our viewpoints and stories. The media has given us no outlet to do this, and this process of unifying and connecting is long overdue.
We do need to start the conversation. We have to be asking the question: how are we going to leverage our voices to force change to happen. Not rushing into a political party is an excellent suggestion, but we have to consider how best to move forward through an open, inclusive and practical conversation. http://groups.google.com/group/politics-and-electoral-reform-working-group
And I agree in the need for open, inclusive conversation, but to what end? There needs to be a purpose behind these conversations. We can talk forever online and in forums, but until we take action - real, political action - all we have is talk. Our discussion won't change how our gov't functions, and the best ideas in the world can be agreed upon, but unless they're acted upon they're still just ideas...
http://detters2cents.wordpress.com/2011/10/11/considering-the-political-spectrum/
Again I agree
and I agree with you that the conversation needs to be engaged with the intention of acting on what is resolved through it. when we discuss it needs to be done with an eye towards action. Absolutely. Otherwise relevance it lost.
So, when is the big reveal?
I'm new to understanding the movement. In fact, I'm very new to the conversation, but please don't let that undermine what I'm about to say. I believe that rushing into forming a party will quickly end the sort of dialogs that are needed right now by everyone involved here. If you form a party, much of the conversation would shift to getting people elected. Not to mention selecting "leaders." It will only result in another problem.
I'm not clear on a solution to all problems, but I think a major part of that will require citizens, not politicians, to be involved in how things are run. If the populace makes strong enough demands, politicians will have to start listening.
This shouldn't become a bunch of politicians and party flunkies. It's been done and things haven't gotten better. I hope that this is and will become about being "We the people" and not about "We the Party." If it becomes a party, then suddenly boundaries are set and some people will become excluded.
I am not confident that politicians will listen, and certainly not to the extend that they make sweeping change to how our government is structured. I admit that the process of creating a party is perilous, and that it can be easily muddied by selecting leaders and establishing party philosophies. But a new party would mimic this movement, not conform to the mold of existing parties. Why would it need to be rigid on policy? Why would it need to hold steadfast views other than it's main goal: that of restructuring our gov't. Moreover, this movement consists of very like-minded individuals that are, not only open to, but are demanding compromise from our government. The party they created would equally compromise.
http://detters2cents.wordpress.com/2011/10/11/considering-the-political-spectrum/
I agree
For what it is worth I think the last thing we need is a political party.
Yes we need to take political action but forming a party is symptomatic of old thinking. What we need are individuals (not party members) willing to act as representatives not politicians.
Who do I mean be that? Well I don't have time atm to go into it in detail but the short version is:
Please watch my blog for further elaboration on this theme:
http://justjimscorner.blogspot.com/2011/10/in-support-of-occupy.html
I think you're right that the old way of thinking about and organizing party and party members would be problematic moving forward. However, I think it's a matter of semantics to say group and not party, and representatives not politicians. After all, if this group of like-minded individuals came together in order to achieve something politically, what would it be other than a party? Moreover, establishing a party would not be continuing on our current, broken road if that party were to change what it means to be a political party. Just as various persecuted groups throughout history have taken back a word, phrase or symbol in order to empower their group and lessen that word's sting, we would need to take back and redefine political party. Now, everything that you said would have to be true - members representing the group and not playing politics, transparency above all, not catering to lobbyists or industry or special interest groups, not accepting large corporate campaign funds, etc - but it would have to function as a party simply as a means of accomplishing things, of organizing, and of securing concrete goals and plans.
I think you are wrong about organizing a "party" but everything else you said was beautiful.
Are you against the notion of organizing people to achieve the changes we'd like to see, or against the notion of political party as we're familiar w/ in terms of Democrats and Republicans? I think in order to achieve our desired goals, we'd have to be well organized, rally support from people who want the same things we do, and have representation for those people and goals. As I said in my above response, we would have to discard political parties as we know them, and redefine how a "party" works. Call it what you want, we need some organized group to achieve these things.
I think a party, with set, unwavering ideologies will make people disregard the movement without research the views of the individuals within it.
would the party's ideologies not be based on the views of the people within this movement?
I have heard that the people within the movement are all over the map on different issues (and that was encouraging to me since I don't 100% agree with everything I hear coming out of it). The one thing agreed upon is the banking/corporate misconduct. A party has to have agreed upon views on all of the issues.
You're right that there are a variety of views, and I too don't agree with all of them. But that one thing we do agree upon outweighs all the rest. Moreover, the people in this movement are fairly like-minded, and are all open to compromising in order to achieve our main goal. A party in the traditional sense needs to have agreed upon all the issues, but not a party that is based on the restructuring of gov't, on the consideration of issues on an individual basis, and on discarding how traditional parties function. Do you think that everyone who votes for a republican or democrat agrees with every issue of that party? Absolutely not, and yet they're stuck with it. Why not put the other issues aside until we've accomplished what this movement is really about? Because that change is far more important than any other issue, and more so than all of them combined.
http://detters2cents.wordpress.com/2011/10/11/considering-the-political-spectrum/
You're obviously from Great Britain, a nation that is being inexorably consumed by the cancer of Islam (there will not always be an England). You're also full of BS. Occupy Wall Street is nothing but a filthy stinking mob that is being orchestrated, supported, and defended from the highest levels of the Demorrhoid Party.
this person clearly is not part of the movement and is just here to throw mud around at everyone.
I don't see parties as the problem. The parties are just groups of like minded people (like you) who got together. They are in place mostly because they offer what the voters want. Sorry.
The platform of the republican party is essentially one that stands for freedom, liberty, and prosperity. I think the Tea Party has set out to reform the republican party and hold them to these ideals. When I read the more coherent posts here (few and far between) I detect a strong libertarian streak that is very aligned with the Tea Party republicans. I know that is heretical to what you have been taught, but if you use your own eyes you might find that it is so
Ha...in all honesty have you been paying any attention to what the Republican candidates are saying? I am not a fan of the Democrats either, however the Republican party right now seems especially proud of being totally pro-corporate and for the wealthiest elites in this nation, calling 'class warfare' when proposals arise to have the wealthiest contribute something to the public tax. Then you have nearly all the Republicans talking about international issues from a child-like perspective GOOD v EVIL (Israel and Palestine or even the Arab Spring), from a CEO perspective like 'ooh we need to open up all these markets, by force'. It was this sort of mentality that led us into Afghanistan to protect a new pipeline there, or Iraq, or Libya with NATO...or creeping back into recolonizing Africa with a new series of AFRICOM bases and expanding NATO missions. NATO just seems to go wherever the multinational oil companies want 'security' and 'stability'. Then there is IMF and World Bank that continue to impose financial policies in these already poor states, previously colonized states, so that they stay heavily in debt to already wealthy nations or really elite banks. They then overthrow the governments that actually try and better meet the interests of their own people instead...
A totally free and unregulated market, the path we are on today, is a CEO elite wet dream to pillage and plunder wherever they may, here at home too. Sorry but I must call out a liar when I see one.
This site looks ugly but is one of the greatest collections of essays and knowledge on any essential issue that would be of concern to the Occupy Movement in my opinion, its here for anyone's consideration: http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/index.html
Once again, 'FreeMarkets' and others are going to try and sell us crap like believing we the youth are total fools and will just crawl on back to this co-opted 2 party orgy...system
'FreeMarkets' would like us to believe in freedom (to oppress Palestinians, various other human 'terrorists', or anyone not following colonial Oil interests, especially if they are in the Mid East or Latin America)...
Liberty (from any accountability/regulation, to destroy the environment, to enslave others in inhumane conditions and prices, globally)...
And Property (for the few....the 1%...the CEO...the banker...and anyone else that joins them in their fight, in their research, in their philosophy, in their historical/economic/political interpretations...Property for those that will divide and conquer)
The Republican Party is disgusting...the Democratic Party not much better because they pretend to represent people and not be taken over by corporation, financial elites, but they are as well...I have to take a stab at Ron Paul too because someone's going to bring him up as the 'savior' to this mess; I admit I like some of the things he says and does regarding foreign affairs...I love Ron Paul in only that regard...but I can not forgive anyone that suggests we should go back to letting business just do as it please and to undue Civil Rights protections. That to me is a shameful proposition, just leave the racism and prejudice to the market! "Let's Free the Market...but not the slaves!" Enough on Ron Paul and other specific leaders/parties...
The 2 party system is a total failure, we need something new that will take a long time for elites to get a grasp of to re-capture. The system needs redefining over and over because it is a continuous struggle between those who desire fairness and justice against those who always want to just beat the system (elites). This battle never ends and we have been losing it lately because the youth and underprivileged have been removed and subdued by the system, we have been long overtaken by FEAR. We also have been failing to apply our CREATIVE thinking. Consider how long its been since this nation has ever really revamped things to meet the needs of today (we have so many scholars interpreting our constitution with the fathers original intent rather than a evolving process, despite the makers were elite slave owners and property owners too) ...other nations around the world have moved on to 3rd, 4rth, 5th and more Estates or Constitutions...The USA still is imprisoned by this blind obedience to the imperfect founding fathers, and this blind faith gospel does have a rationality to it. It benefits the groups that would not like change. This is why Occupy Wall street should get serious about offering something new, something the corporate structure does not know how to handle yet and something that people would be willing to try and something that does indeed guarantee protections for minority groups and the underprivileged. We have to be creative people and much more so than just voting for Republicans like Mr. FreeMarket would have it...
I think that your last paragraph is right on the money. We need to restructure our gov't, and it needs to be done from w/in the system.
http://detters2cents.wordpress.com/2011/10/11/considering-the-political-spectrum/
The wealthy already pay most of the taxes, but that seems to be insufficient for your pirate-like philosophy. Behind all your lofty (and tired, neoMarxist) rhetoric, is a belief that you have a right to sieze the property of others merely because you want to. The Constitution is social contract between the people and the government. It limits the government, and gives it authority to do a few things. If you want to grant more powers to an already huge government, then do the hard work of amending the Constitution. The productive, hard working will not put up with your looting, however. They will move to a country with more economic and social freedom than the totatlitarian state that you seem to want to create.
I have earned the title "Neo" in neo-marxist! This is pretty exciting! Neo can be a sign that there is some fresh thinking going on...anyways
Its old traditional policy that hides behind those wielded labels against change or fairness in the government/economic sphere: Marxists, socialists, communists, hippies, vagrants and so on.
Framing the issues as grabbing other's property because they feel like it is a total misrepresentation. Having politically-entrenched and powerful class of citizens to contribute the fair share into society is not totalitarian and is not a simple seizure of personal property, especially if this class wants to continue the same reckless behavior that triggered the global finance crisis. This false image makes it seem as if there is no regulatory failures, no vast gap in wealth and power in our society and also ignores how much access the financial, banking, and corporate elite have in our government.
That image ignores that government is a necessity (some form of order, hopefully a just one) at the end of the day and those entrenched interests manipulate government in their favor. Government needs to be improved (likely vastly restructured given how twisted the priorities are in defense spending) but that does not mean to cut it so small that already powerful and wealthy groups can run totally free and wild and extract more wealth from others without regulation and protections for the rest; so when it is claimed we need limited government...asking the entrenched wealthy to contribute their fair share is a part of that minimal government and oversight...
Constitution as it is, has allowed our Supreme court and legislature to stand around and claim that corporations have the same rights as people, ignoring that this is not in the interest of the public having a fair voice in elections and policy. It also did not seem to predict that democracy would be heavily managed by a lobbyist system that priorities the wealthy. Our constitution has not prevented our nation from getting into a cycle of wars and violence, it hasn't stopped our nation from supporting tyrants overseas with military aid and tolerating abridgment of our rights of assembly and free speech. The constitution likely did not foresee the free press failing to a complex web of corporate and sponsor conflict of interests and censorship. It may have not foreseen that our society would cycle from one vulnerable targeted group to another, to avoid addressing societal issues like witch-hunts, 'nigger' hunts, 'Nazi' or 'Jap' hunts, red communists, this list can go on and on, now it is the hysteria against Muslims and 'terrorists'. Somehow the constitution ignored ways that the elite divides and conquers it's own people...
There are some serious things that are wrong, I hope our movement can address the issues from within and from outside the current system. Things are not all fine and dandy but I hope they will be for a lot more people sooner than later...the 99% is a powerful image and it really is that many people that feel left out of this old old system we have.
I also agree that simply taking from the rich is not the answer, but we can restructure how our gov't functions in order to stop perpetuating a system in which the rich grow richer and the poor grow poorer. We can stop gov't money from going into the pockets of those that already have enough and better allot it to people and programs that will help our economy and our country. I don't believe in leveling the playing field - we will always have a wealth distribution, there will always be rich and always be poor. That's life and that's how it should be. But currently that disparity is excessive and made more so by the power structure.
I also agree that the constitution is a social contract between the people and the government, but I don't think it functions as such today. I think it functions as a business tool and that it doesn't actually benefit the people. That's why we need to revamp our constitution and restructure our gov't. And, again, this can only be done from w/in the system. I think that being content to just raise awareness is to fail this movement and what it's trying to accomplish. I don't know why we're content to just talk and not take serious, concrete action to promote the changes we both want and need.
http://detters2cents.wordpress.com/2011/10/11/considering-the-political-spectrum/
I think the Constitution works very well today. What has happened is that the government has appropriated itself power to tax us for things that are not really the government's role. They then use this money to corrupt the system. "Wall Street" is not manipulating the government, but rather the government's crony capitalism (particularly in this administration) is corrupting Wall Street
Crony capitalism doesn't happen out of nowhere, its allowed and tolerated. We can have the more limited govt by shedding the crap we don't need like these wars that pretend to be for out security and the efforts to conduct widespread surveillance and censorship. None of this serves the people or 'national interest'. Oh but the private corporate contractors and profiteers will fight that tooth and nail...
Where we need very strong govt is in accountability, transparency, regulations...if our nation continues on capitalist profit model, we should be making up for the socioeconomic inequality that allows for unequal access to our government and policy making. This vast disparity can't be ignored and is a major part of 'corporate greed' or the vast corruption we see in government...cronyism must be addressed in the government, not government dismantled because of cronyism concerns...of course private elements that can act more aggressively without the regulations will fight this as well and have been pushing for zero regulations...even policies of 'corporate welfare'...
Our nation could be making strategic investments in our society, especially in education, energy, preservation of vital needs and resources like food, water, air, and a solid health system. Why we aren't doing so? This to me is a shame...leaving it to the market has allowed for many big fat entities to profit off of inefficient models and suppress better and alternative ways. Was this foreseen by the constitution? That I don't know, doesn't seem like anything was in place to address this...I'd have to look into that more
There is a way to achieve what you both want. CUT OFF THE MONEY! WHY? Because .....Money is the Root of al Evil! Now wait,,,WAIT......I'm sure you have all heard this phrase. So if it is true....then to accomplish your goal of stopping Greed and the Evil that invades Wall Street and our Government.......CUT OFF THE MONEY! Stop the relationships between Corporate American and our Government. Amend the Constitution to have, "Separation of Corporation and State" Corporations are not People. They can not vote in an election and should not have a financial influence on our Government. Cut off the link between the two, namely Taxes and Lobbyist. Corporations should not pay taxes. People pay taxes. Corporation now just pass the cost of taxation on to the consumer in the price of their goods and services. No Taxes on Corporation is better business and then they have no say in Government. Tax all people Fairly. More on how to achieve this later.
you are suggesting to create some more lesser evils then? in switzerland for example there is at least 6 partys making enough votes for parliament and they just bailed out the biggest bank with 40 billion swiss franks. mind you theres only 7 milion people living in switzerland. the social inequality there is just as high as anywhere else and the wages just as low in comparison to prices. voting different partys that want to do the same stuff better is not a solution to anything.
I don't think anyone wants to do the same as the existing parties, that's just the point. And what about other countries where there are multiple parties - Norway, for instance. And I don't think you can compare the US to Switzerland. Not only are there huge differences in terms of size, population, military, etc., but Switzerland brings in huge wealth because their banking system attracts the wealthy from throughout the world, which further separates their wealth distribution. And right now, our two party system allows the two parties to simple fight between each other, to have things only 1 of 2 ways. A third party would disrupt this. Moreover, if a third party was established by and for people who do not agree with how things are currently being run, why would that party continue to run them in that manner?
What is your solution? Because simply creating awareness will not actually change anything. There needs to be concrete changes in how things are run.
"There needs to be concrete changes in how things are run."
this. end private property and workers take control of the corporations, stop trade and produce for the needs of the people. gift economy.
Anything realistic? End private property? How about that computer you're typing on, would you like to share it with the family next door? And workers control corporations, you mean workers like CEO's, CFO's, and account executives? And gift economy? Seriously? Good luck convincing the world economy that "gift economy" is something they should join...
There needs to be PLAUSIBLE concrete change - end the ability of special interest groups to manipulate policy; mandate that companies/corporations provide health insurance to employees or a salary that enables them to afford it; tax the hell out of companies that continue to do business in industries that are detrimental to our country and environment (big oil companies, for instances), while supporting and establishing incentives for companies/corporations in clean-energy industries (wave, solar, wind energy, etc.); tax the hell out of companies and corporations in luxury industries (professional sports, entertainment, cigarettes, alcohol); establish more comprehensive and effective social welfare programs in areas of education, child-support, medical care, drug/alcohol support, etc.; establish term limits for congress, seriously slash their salary and benefits package, and mandate transparency for their campaign contributors, industry ties related to policy decisions, etc.; end ability of corporations to act as individuals legally; end our wars overseas and return our military budget to domestic spending; mandate a transition to domestically-produced and environmentally friendly energy in order to create jobs building those new energy infrastructures and industries (also getting us out of the middle east); and tax, tax, TAX the individuals and institutions that hold such a high percentage of our country's wealth in order to redistribute it effectively through social welfare and support programs that allow the middle and lower class to actually keep some of their income.
you have anything realistic for change? i just hear the same bullshit thats already going around. you think any of this will end people working at minimal wage while fat cats make billions with their work?
These ideas are going around by people who want to even our currently uneven wealth distribution and by people frustrated with our current system. And as for realistic change, did you read my proposed changes?
And there is going to be a distribution of wealth, there are going to be rich and poor. That's inevitable and that's not what we're trying to change here. Some people are going to be more successful and have more money than others. We're not trying to put everyone on the exact same level, we're trying to end a corrupt system and provide support for the lower classes that face no opportunity and unfair financial responsibilities.
If you want everyone to share everything and everything to be free, go live on a commune and sing kumbaya...but if you want to try to make things better, try to be realistic...
they want to even the uneven wealth distribution but not touch minimal wages and billionaires? well write a letter to santa clause man. or go sue someone for being corrupt. this shit wont go anywhere, just my 5 cents..
well i'm glad you're so positive and hopeful about things getting better...that's the attitude that will change the world and help the little man!!!
yeah im kinda tired of being positive towards a system of exploitation. but helping the little man is all that concerns me.
if the little man concerns you, than why are you so narrow minded and closed to suggestions and changes that will help the little man? did you even read my suggestions? increase and improve social welfare programs was one of them. who else is that for but the little man? and it's not just that you're done being positive, it's that all you want to do is complain and throw out over-the-top, unrealistic plans; you want to use hype words to condemn "the man" and voice your frustration...i personally would like to use my voice for something constructive, not just to bitch and complain...so i'm done with this back-and-forth b/c it's no longer a debate...
because you want to keep the little man little while keeping the big man big.. keep him in his misery but make sure he doesnt die from it, provide health care and if things go great visit a restaurant once a week. thats your program and not mine. how are my propositions bitching and complaining and yours are not? because im unrealistic and you are realistic? i mean its nice already that you want to increase wellfare, not even the consent in this movement id say. but im done with this system, with capitalism. i dont want to improve it, i want to destroy it.
well than, i'm sorry to say that you're going to be frustrated and discontent for the rest of your life. perhaps your great grandchildren will see an end to capitalism, but we certainly won't in our lifetime. to that end, i want to make the best of a bad situation, to improve the condition of things, and to start us down the right path for those future generations.
and as to why you're bitching and i'm not, here are your comments - "i just hear the same bullshit thats already going around. you think any of this will end people working at minimal wage while fat cats make billions with their work?" and "but im done with this system, with capitalism. i dont want to improve it, i want to destroy it." - They're negative, they point out problems w/o trying to find solutions (aside from 'gift economy') and they aren't open to compromise or to working within our means of plausibility. Whereas, here are my comments...proposals..."There needs to be PLAUSIBLE concrete change - end the ability of special interest groups to manipulate policy; mandate that companies/corporations provide health insurance to employees or a salary that enables them to afford it; tax the hell out of companies that continue to do business in industries that are detrimental to our country and environment (big oil companies, for instances), while supporting and establishing incentives for companies/corporations in clean-energy industries (wave, solar, wind energy, etc.); tax the hell out of companies and corporations in luxury industries (professional sports, entertainment, cigarettes, alcohol); establish more comprehensive and effective social welfare programs in areas of education, child-support, medical care, drug/alcohol support, etc.; establish term limits for congress, seriously slash their salary and benefits package, and mandate transparency for their campaign contributors, industry ties related to policy decisions, etc.; end ability of corporations to act as individuals legally; end our wars overseas and return our military budget to domestic spending; mandate a transition to domestically-produced and environmentally friendly energy in order to create jobs building those new energy infrastructures and industries (also getting us out of the middle east); and tax, tax, TAX the individuals and institutions that hold such a high percentage of our country's wealth in order to redistribute it effectively through social welfare and support programs that allow the middle and lower class to actually keep some of their income." Reread those and see if I'm bitching or discussing possible solutions...again, I'm done arguing w/ u...
look sophist, every one of your solution is pointing out a problem, you phrase it the positive way while i phrase mine the negative way. i could turn every one of your solutions into a complaint just by putting a "not" before the problem you adress. besides the phrasing its just the same and i was phrasing positively too in my first post but you went like omg hippie go sing kumbaya. i know all about you already mister liberal bettermaker so turn away if you like. you will end up voting for obama and thats it.
and, btw, it's great that a forum for ideas on how to improve things has become an argument and talking shit...good use of the opportunity...
I'm going to have to agree with etterdc. Pariscommune, you're being too negative. We need to work together and not become to overwhelmed with our frustrations and argue. Your comments are not solution-based, like etterdc said.
However, etterdc, do you think that taxing destructive resource big industries (like oil) would produce outrage to the other countries where we receive our oil from? I agree with you, I think oil is corrupting our country and others as well, but I fear that this will invoke yet another ridiculous war. I think if we can, we should, but war is a VERY probable outcome.
Thanks Alexis. I didn't intend for the debate to become negative, and I wish it hadn't.
As far as outraging the countries that we get oil from, I think we've already succeeded in that. Our presence in their countries incites violence and a cultural war that stems from horribly differing views on culture, religion and economy. Currently, our oil industry funds leaders that abuse their power, take advantage of their citizens and withhold basic rights for their people. Our unequal wealth distribution and stamped on human rights are nothing compared to those in the countries from which we receive our oil (women were just now granted the right to vote in Saudi Arabia, yet still cannot drive cars or leave their homes w/o a male chaperone), and yet we cannot step in to help those people b/c we are in the pockets of their leaders. Our position in the middle east is one that we desperately need to change. If we end our oil dependency, we largely end our need to have a presence (mainly militarily) in those countries, which is another reason there are widespread anti-western sentiments throughout the world. If we tax our oil companies and make it nearly impossible (or at least not profitable) to continue on that path, we open the door for new energy industries. The development of these new industries will create jobs here at home, will drastically improve our ailing environmental situation, and help to remove the target from our backs that come from our money and military supporting oil-funded regimes in the middle east. I don't think that the governments of those countries would choose war with us if we backed out on our oil trading. They've seen our military power and presence when they use it to their advantage, and I don't think they'd want it turned on them.
Okay, interesting points. As I previously stated, I wasn't disagreeing with you at all. I actually agree with a lot of what you said. I'm just trying to be objective in order to see if it is actually a good idea. Your concepts and ideas sound great in theory, but I think that our future representatives (we will succeed) will have to sit down and think of all possible outcomes of these proposals. I also believe that there should be another signing to a new Declaration, both based on the original and revised. Not saying that I think we should destroy our old Declaration/Constitution etc.; they are a very important part of our history as a nation. But as we have added Amendments and new laws, our country's goal and presence has become ever-more convoluted. We are a nation full of bright, hard-working people who desire to be well-educated and to be treated as equals.
Don't worry, I have no problems if you disagree. That's what this is all about...
And yes, my ideas about what would happen are good in theory...I suppose we can only hope they would play out like that. I do, however, think that we would maintain some military presence in the middle east, simply as a matter of safety. We have made enough enemies already from our wars and spreading of culture that it's naive to think we'll just leave and everything will be fine. However, I think our presence could be drastically downscaled and largely varied. I think it would have to be more of an intelligence war - keep tabs on groups that wish us harm, prevent and intercept attacks, etc. We could do this w/ more of a CIA presence than an actual soldiers in uniform presence. But again, this is all theory we're talking.
As for your idea of a new constitution, I'm very intrigued. And I think I have to agree w/ u (I say I think b/c it's not actually anything I've considered before). But it makes sense. Not only has our world drastically changed, but the cultural, economic and political institutions in our country have changed the game completely and we need to update our constitution to account for this. Here's an example: we currently have almost no laws in place to counter internet crimes like bullying (think of the mom who made a fake MySpace account and bullied a girl in her daughter's school until she committed suicide - there was nothing to charge her w/ even though it is obviously an evil act that she perpetrated) because that technology is developing faster than our laws can account for it. I think the same could be said for our country outgrowing our constitution. It's a great idea.
Thank you, I'm glad you liked the idea. There are certainly a lot of considerations that would need to be accounted for, but I think that if we were able to come together in a unified means, and talk rationally (not argue or bicker out of frustration) we could make it work. It would require a long period of time, cooperation, patience and ,arguably most important, understanding. We have to be able to understand ideas and perspectives of other people and to talk and come up with plausible mid-grounds. That way we can make all people happy.
I believe that in order to make this Revision possible, we would have to deliberately execute the two-party government system we have. That way, both former Republicans and former Democrats, despite having different opinions, can meet somewhere in the middle. I like to think of this idea as Radically Moderate. Somewhere right in the middle there will be peace.
Also, I think that education and healthcare should be provided by the government. It has been statistically proven that more well-educated countries have a lower crime rate. Not only this, but people who have studied the workings of other governments (that work) in countries that have low crime rates, suicide rates, etc., should be appointed to help draft the Revision and our new government.
By learning from our own mistakes as a country, if not as a planet, we can change the world as it is.
This planet is filled with bright people who want change, and it's time for us to give it to them. The USA is long overdue for this Revolution. We have been operating since 1776 on the same basic Constitution. Since then we have seen slaves freed by their nation-wide rallying calls and eagerness, women gain the right to vote through a long and hard struggle for their voices to be heard. Now it's time for all of us to unite and fight for our individual freedoms.
What say you?
There is nothing that needs to be changed about the Constitution. That's what you don't understand. It's a document of values and principles - not intended to address every rule needed (like the cyberbullying you mentioned, not that being mean should be a crime).
And, you will never make all people happy.
The constitution wouldn't address cyber bullying - legislation would, laws. The constitution can, however, address how a gov't is structured - the lobbying and special interest system, for instance. And I know that we'll never make all people happy, but our current situation is beyond just being unhappy. I hope that's not what you're calling this movement, a bunch of "unhappy" people. It's a movement of people who have been let down by their gov't, who have not been protected as they should be, and who have been taken advantage of by our system of governance.
Sadly, I don't think this will happen in our lifetime or that of our children. Also, I don't think we'd be able to end the Democratic and Republican parties. Not only are they too engrossed in our political structure, they successfully represent the two-poles of the political spectrum. I think that, instead, there would simply have to be the addition of multiple parties somewhere in the middle. There are, after all shades of middle ground - socially conservative/economically liberal, socially liberal/economically conservative, etc. I think we need to better represent these varied segments of the population and better tailor our parties to represent constituents.
Also, I think we have a long way to go in terms of state-sponsored health and education. By that I mean that our country currently has a state-funded education program that both fails to meet the needs of such a large area and constituent-base, and also has to compete with the private education sector. What we need to do is even the playing field, so to speak, in terms of the quality of education across the board. Schools are too heavily indicative of the socio-economic area around them: i.e. poor areas have poor, underfunded schools and vice versa. This is a problem that needs to be fixed, and the same goes for our public medical institutions. However, it is hard to compare the US to other countries with state-run education and healthcare programs because of our size. We not only have a greatly higher population than most countries w/ state-run programs, but we are physically far larger. Moreover, we have a larger variety of sub-cultures to account for, which in turn means a larger variety of cultural values. And at what point does trying to even this out become cultural colonialism?
I won't get behind that. Ever.
That was the goal and the modus operandi of the rabble who instigated the French Revolution, which became the seminal archetype of all subsequent totalitarian regimes (including those linked with Hitler, Stalin, Castro, Pol Pot, etc). The stinking French mob and the follow-on Reign of Terror resulted in the slaughter of 600,000 French citizens in a nation of 24 million.
There are political parties here that are based on the right concepts and would do a lot of good for the USA, but the problem is that they don't have any money and are true grassroots efforts (unlike the Tea Party, which isn't grassroots). Money drives who gets elected here, and the Republican, Democrat, and Tea Parties are the ones with all the money. They get heavy campaign contributions, while the small parties that are based on the right priorities get very little help. And, people are so ingrained into voting for either Democrat or Republican that the other parties get very, very little of the vote. Maybe this protest will change that, hopefully.
The fact that money drives who gets elected is what this movement is trying to change, though. And if there truly is a majority of people fed up with this system, why can't they unite and utilize their voting power? Grass roots campaigning is much easier today than ever before, with the huge increase in social media and other technology for people to connect, including politically. We don't need to limit ourselves to how things are done in the system we disdain.
The Tea Party (and some Republican) people who actually got voted into federal and state governments mostly were CEOs of huge corporations. So, you can see who controls things here. If we had more representation from the common citizen and outlawed corporate control, we would get somewhere.
The original Tea Party - the true Tea Party - was grass roots. It wasn't coopted - AFAIK - until 2008 by moneyed interests. Remember the convention that the Koch brothers funded, Palin spoke at etc.... The Tea Party was active for years before that.
We could use those that identify as Tea PArtiers on our side. Right wing and left wing populism have the same basic goals.
The left wants a communal socialist type structure. The right wants a free society based on the individual. Hardly the same.
Maybe it´s a "subtle" hint towards what lies behind MoveOn.org?
From Sourcewatch.org: "A major supporter of MoveOn in recent years has been George Soros." http://sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=MoveOn
From Infowars.com: http://www.infowars.com/occupy-wall-street-tax-proposal-is-backed-by-wall-street-itself/
http://www.infowars.com/occupy-wall-street-hijacked-by-special-interests-alex-jones-emergency-broadcast/
What happened to the MoveOn logo, on the frontpage?
Do the math, and stay vigilant..
You really believe Occupy Wall street was created by corporations too and Obama? I think it is the other way around...politicians are recognizing the movement...this is hilarious, haven't been watching Alex Jones much, so he also is using the tired old accusations of communists etc. I agree that there are broader issues our movement must address but I cannot see how the movement would be actively funded by international bankers. How can that be in their interests? Wouldn't the corporate international banker media be all over this movement if his proposition is correct? I think his communist hysteria he speaks of actually serves the elites more because having a government more pressured by popular groups and enabled to go after and curb corporate abuses would not be in their interests, so they love to use this bogey word 'communist' which is always linked to the image of evil evil Nazi 'socialists' which were really right-wing corporatist fascists, they were not real socialists...but this history discussion/debate really should be elsewhere lol
That aside I think the movement does need to address the good point mentioned on how to make sure it costs on the elites that are not simply 'passed on' to others. I think that is a valid concern which requires some serious thought and debate; Fear should not be used because that destroys the thought and debate process, as Alex Jones does and other 'anti-communists'.
Let's not fall into the old communist hysteria...these hysterias are geared to stop our searches and questioning and turn to fighting each other by labels that the powerful have constructed...
He raises some points worth considering but I think Alex Jones is being a jerk, it is more likely that he is being paid to further paranoia. Or he is just being ignorant. To be fair though he raised some issues worth considering, other than the whole movement has been taken over...concern.
Alex Jones is a paranoid little man. Make sure that you keep a keen distinction between 'points worth considering' and the hysteria Jones and people like him spew. People like Jones are just as bad as the Wall Streeters.
How about doing away with electoral college and figuring some alternative that actually respects popular votes? How about a one house congress and no senate? Have people discussed perhaps how our system may gain from a parliamentary structure instead?? I am just curious, I have dabbled a little into these things but not much just yet...
Redistricting needs to end...I think things like this the movement needs to harness creativity and address. I am worreid about the proposal to simply stop voting however...elites have been working to disenfranchise the masses and underprivileged for a long time...this would be something they would welcome because all the elites and wealthy would still come out to vote, as they always do...then use that to continue on auto-pilot. We need a positive affirmative act...not a negative retreat from politics...I think the emphasis should be Engagement, not Disengagement. Perhaps I misinterpreted the article on eradicating polarized politics...
Guys this is what we need to guard against. I was one of the early members of moveon and it was originally a populist movement with the goal of returning control the the electoral / political process to the people.
Unfortunately, they got co-opted. I watched they organization morph from one the welcomed all comers as long as they were willing to change the existing and broken process into an organization that was Democrat by just another name.
I would hate to see us go that route. Forming a traditional political party would go along way to achieving that very result.
It was Andy Stern and George Soros that kill MoveOn.
How could we let the wolves inside.
Oh, we rolled out the red carpet because they gave us money. I forgot, money rules all.
Paranoia will kill a movement faster than the rich. Keep ownership of this movement. Stay active. Fluid. And it won't matter who jumps on the band wagon. The main message is that the 1% have screwed up our decision making processes, marginalized the remaining 99%. Stay on that message and it won't matter who joins. Stay true to the mission not the members.
Vote. That is your voice. That is how you hold the politicians accountable. That is our system, and the problems lie in the people not the system.
the ballots are rigged and hacked in key precincts. Go ahead and vote.
The real problem: http://www.volusia912.org/The_Federal_Reserve_is_PRIVATELY_OWNED_by_Thomas_D_Schauf.pdf
http://www.thedailybell.com/3015/Anthony-Wile-Blaming-Wall-Street-Is-Wrong
I'm tired of people chiming in about how the Fed is the real problem. There is no real problem. They are all part of the problem. We need a paradigm shift, not an attack on an individual institution.
The federal reserve note is the tool that buys politicians, pays for wars, oppresses Americans and the people of the world. You end the fed and you effectively cut off the head of their snake. All presidential candidates, besides Ron Paul, want to keep the fed because that snake is their master. Once we elect a leader to end the fed then we deal with the other problems. Organize, form concise goals and a strategy otherwise this movement is dead or will get hijacked.
There is no silver bullet to solve this problem. The Fed is a problematic institution but it isn't the only one. The PROBLEM is that the 1% have marginalized teh 99%. Money needs to be removed from politics. Government must be accountable to all 100% equally.
Honestly its not the whole 1%. A lot of those people create tons of jobs and are hard working individuals. There are a small group within that one percent that have done what you speak of, mostly in banking, big AG, energy. If you cut of the fed you cut off the air that feeds these tyrants.
Nope. Disagree. It is wealth in politics that is the problem. The ability for the 1% to push their desires over the needs of the 99%. And your arguments otherwise are unconvincing, anecdotal and meaningless.
And if you cut off the Fed you still have the World Bank and IMF. Its not enough of a solution.
fine about the 1%
Take down the fed and the world bank and imf collapse. They own federal reserve notes. They'll go bankrupt. The federal reserve note is the worlds reserve currency. Eliminate it and all the corrupt banks all over the planet go bust. It's what is happening right now anyway. They're all holding trillions in bad paper. when we bust the fed all debts to poor nations are forgiven. we create a new "basket currency" as a reserve for the world and the US issues debt free money like we did after the revolution and during the civil war. Bill Still talks about this a lot. So many people do. End the fed and their game is over!
The Fed is an institution. A tool.
Believing that ending the Fed will make everything better is like believing taking the murder weapon away from a killer solves the problem.
It's a private bank dude! Private bankers issue the currency of the United States and inflate it. It's a scam! They inflate the money supply, strip the citizens of their wealth and eventually bankrupt the country over generations. They buy all the real assets with fake money before they destroy the currency. This is a slow insidious process that started long before you or I were born.
The fed is only supposed to increase the money supply in accordance with population increases. The fed wouldn't have to increase the money supply causing inflation if the govt didn't constantly overspend. This is a DC problem. Period.
Yes it is a problem. Pick your battles. I'll focus on the 1%. You can worry about The Fed.
But I sure as hell do not support making the protests all about ending the Fed. What i want is a government accountable to the people rather than to wealth. And thats what i think this movement is about, and thats what i think it should remain focused on.
Dviding it up into smaller issues saps it of its strength.
Okay then what do you do about the 1% problem? What do you propose?
Threaten their hold over the status quo. Invade the public process at every level. Attack on all fronts. Keep going with the protests, and make them grow.
You get to vote. That is your voice. If you don't like the politician, vote him out. If there isn't one running you would vote for, then run yourself.
and who cares about the imf and the world bank. They don't issue our currency...fed does. inflating the money supply creates debt and puts us in a state of slavery.
The same interests (global financial elite) more or less 'commandeer' financial policies of many countries, and have for some time. Much of the world has dealt with this - was told years past, (before current 'comfortable nations'), to privatize social services in exchange for IMF and World Bank "help". National central banking agencies (the Fed, for example) are part of the 'structure' that this global financial elite uses to shape government policy - everywhere! (It's now 'our turn' at the wheel.) I'm over-simplifying - but believe I've got the 'gist' summarized. We don't need to tackle dismantling IMF, but we need to realize what they've done around the globe for decades. John Pilger has made an excellent documentary on Indonesia's experience; others have described manipulation of public policy in Latin America. A good part of immigration here from Mexico is due to global financial manipulations that wrecked small farm communities - they lost their capacity to compete with corn, (NAFTA). There's much 'entanglement' between financial elite interests within our own country, interests of trans-national corporations, and IMF/World Bank activities and policies. (I should cite references - sorry - it's late - I wanted to reply re IMF and World Bank however.)
Totally agree with everything 100%. They are criminals! But first we have to stop the issuance of the fake reserve currency note that keeps the world in perpetual debt slavery. Then we'll prosecute the IMF and WB criminals.
I'm too 'through with the day' to think through the Fed machine tonight, but have viewed a number of the well known documentaries that describe how we end up paying interest on our own money to the considerable benefit of the private interests that run the Fed. I think I've read some convincing arguments that we can't actually un-do the whole Fed thing because of how complex national/international inter-dependencies have become. (Made sense at the time.) But I'm sure we can 'fix' who owns/operates a National Central Bank! Surely it should be 'we the people'! (??)
Here are some resources: http://goldmanbanksters.com/about-us/banking-explained/ http://www.change-gov.com/money-power-greed-banks/
For "This" to work for WHO!!! Don't mention Race, Politics, Religion or any real ISSUES, just follow your way to the pits of the TEA BAGGERS re-inventing themselves. I have gone to several pages of people organizing and they ALL are Racist-Stereo-Typing sites. So, as you say do not speak follow-- I will NOT. Also, to be SHEEPLE is not a good look! There is a reason this is so random RACISTS are at the core and are directing "SHEEP" to follow with no sense of where they are being lead!
Not to a socialistic society. They know that much.
So we're into 'image' - aren't we just going to accept as many as will join the movement? If these people want to be more palatable to the center of the country - why not?
As soon as the country hears your true motivations, they will leave you in the dust.
the two party system asks us to choose from two lists of issues we can't support an issue on the list and not support the other issues
Once we allowed the Unions in, I knew we were done.
OWS, I hardly knew ye.
These people don't care about us, they supported this regime to the tune of $300,000,000.00. Three. Hundred. Million. Dollars.
That would have bought homes, paid for community centers, filled food banks to bursting. They could have invested in community gardens, co-op day care, provided micro-loans to SMALL business, and helped tens of thousands in their collegiate pursuits.
But they are Unions, tools for those that wish to continue the status quo.
Unions, for the past 60 years have not helped anyone but themselves.
Good-bye OWS, you have been swallowed by the very greed you wished to eliminate.
Sleep well, if you can. You are all soulness now.
BS.
On which point Unionista?
Arguing ad-hominem doesn't help you.
Your paranoia about the Unions will harm this movement. This movement is too real to be coopted by anyone if protesters stay on point about "we are the 99% protesting about the influence of the 1% in our lives". Unions entering the protest can only help, not hinder the movement.
Unions will help? Well if the movement is about a progressive open society, I guess they would, but the rest of America will leave you.
You Unionista trolls are really thin skinned.
Go whine to Andy.
Who is trolling? And whining? Need I show you a mirror?
No, I can see you. For what you are, Unionista.
All of this, everything, the whole thing stems from 1 thing. Corporate money in politics. When you remove this. The politicians start working for you. Constitutional Fraud Law restricting you from voting on anything you hold stake in. I mean if BP donates 1 million to your campaign. Then you cannot vote for them. You must remain silent in all issues about BP. Conflict of interest . Punishable by Eviction from office and or jail time. In addition You should be barred from accepting employment from any company you lobbied for at least 5 years after leaving office. This should apply to all forms of government service. FCC, FDA and so on. Term limits that don't reset after you leave for one term. You get your 4 to 8 years and that's it. You're out for good.
I think you will be hard pressed to find a regular person that does not agree with these issues.
Agreed.
I see the benefit of the argument, but what about the interest and freedom of the companies being overrun by a tyranny of the people?
bs. what "tyranny" --- it's plain old controls and brakes on these corpo-nut cases. There's no tyranny, doofus. Get a clue. Reckless drivers need to be controlled and restrained. It's that simple.
Useful idiots.
I'm somewhat alarmed by the site's sudden appearance and long long list of city, regional sites. The domain name is registered with an Australian "privacy secure" domain service. The site is clearly 'not right' because it has no direct contact with whomever put it up, invites no ideas or input. I tried a couple of the city/regional links and they were duplicates of the main site. I think there may be good reason to try to ferret out who's behind the site (I'd have no idea how to go about that.) It feels to me like one of its purposes is that of a sponge (soak up dissatisfaction that would otherwise join occupy together). A friend suggests it may be a scam that provides 'per click' income for someone. I feel like it's intentionally meant to disrupt, distract. I guess without having any means to let people interact, it can't cause much harm yet ... but I don't feel comfortable about it. There's something 'wrong'. (??).
This site is owned by an Australian registered company called fabulious.com based in Queensland Australia. It is a spam site and is in no way a politcal party unless you vote SPAM.
Watching with bated breath from the UK! Keep it rolling and let it roll over the Atlantic. God Bless you all!! Keep safe!!
Obamas' 2012 Finance Director is the son of BANK OF AMERICAS former CEO.... the guy who got us in this mess!!! Keeping it all in the Family
But it isn't just Obama. Focusing on just one politician in this is suspect. They are all feeding at the 1%'s trough and ignoring the public because of it.
Voting Republican certainly isn't going to solve this problem.
People looking to stick it out in cold weather, check this out - blankets, water bottles, thermoses, WE ARE THE 99%!
www.occupywallstreet.co.nr
Monittors please remove some of these sites that are posted.
We ar not an organization, we are the 99%!
Exactly!
The people that set up this site has commandeered all the "occupy<cityname>.COM addresses. Go to occupytampa.com and you will see. They have taken all the local occupy*.org sites and registered the .com variants. There will be many attacks like this, be vigilant and spread the word!
Although Occupy Wall Street has no list of demands yet. I have some suggestions. What should be on the list is the massive "wealth redistribution" that has gone on for the last 30 years. With the decline of unions and the lowering of the marginal tax rates from 90% in 1950's to 36% now, all of the nation's wealth has been paid out at the top to the corporate executives.
The middle class spends their wealth on goods/services and the corporations have redistributed their wealth by paying their profits all out to the executives and shareholders. Middle class wages have stagnated for 30 years while executive wages have gone up 256% in since 1980. Even last year executive compensation went up another 11%. The top 1% now controls over 42% of the entire nation's wealth. We have not seen numbers like this since the great depression. The top 10% controls 70% of the entire nation's wealth. All of our nation's wealth has been redistributed into the hands of the few.
The middle class was roped into replacing wages with easy credit. So instead of paying people living wages, corporations fooled us into thinking we were doing well and could afford things by giving us easy credit instead of wages. Instead of having wages to buy t.v.'s, furniture, etc. we were given easy loans. So the middle class became a debtor class. There used to be a tax disincentive to paying out all of corporate profits at the top because in the 1950's income was taxed at 90% over a certain amount money and now that tax disincentive has disappeared. In 1950's the highest marginal tax rate was 90%. In 1960-1970's it was 70%. In 1980's it dropped to 49%. In 1990's dropped to 39%. Under George Bush it dropped to a mere 36%. We have had over 30 years of massive tax cuts for the wealthy.
There is now no tax disincentive to paying out all of the corporate wealth at the top. And there is no employee bargaining power because now less than 12% of all of our jobs are unionized. Corporate profits are at an all time high, healthcare company profits are at an all time high, and oil profits are at an all time high. We don't have a healthcare crisis we have a healthcare company profit-taking crisis that no politician will doing anything about. Healthcare and oil companies have enjoyed a decade of record profits while we have had a decade of massive premiums for little coverage and a decade of outrageous gas prices.
The problems are: 1) deregulation of the banks by the Republican-controlled congress in 1999; 2) hedge funds are exempt from regulation; 3) tax system no longer has a disincentive against paying outrageous executive salaries (highest marginal tax rate has dropped from 90% to 36%); 4) commodities market is exempt from regulation (Republican-controlled Congress exempted it in the Commodities Future Modernization act of 2000); 5) the Supreme Court has ruled that corporations can spend unlimited funds in campaign elections (thus politicians on both sides favor the wealthy/corporations) and 6) the rise of corporate/billionaire propaganda media "news." Because of the need to raise massive sums in politics today, we no longer have a party that represents the people. The Democrats have to chase the corporate and big money donors too.
What can we do about this: 1) re-instate Glass-Steagall Act regulating the banks; 2) regulate hedge funds and the commodities market (because the commodities market is not regulated speculation has caused prices for commodities to go through the roof); 3) get rid of the money in politics (have federally funded elections with clear limits on spending and no outside groups allowed to have ads); 4) get rid of 1980's laws stating that corporations' only duty is to maximize shareholder profits; and 5) regulate "news" channels and newspapers (no more "slanted opinion news" masquerading as hard news) and reinstitute the fairness doctrine across all news outlets to ensure that both sides get equal time.
Corporations should have duties to society and to their workers too. They should have to balance their duties to maximize shareholder profits against their reinstated duties to their employees and to society. The laws saying that corporations' only duty is to maximize shareholder profits have led to the destruction of long-term business plans and care for their workers and have created short-term profit monsters at the expense of workers and society.
Focus on this: 3) get rid of the money in politics (have federally funded elections with clear limits on spending and no outside groups allowed to have ads);
The reason why we are demonstrating instead of going straight to congress is because government is unresponsive to the 99% beyond lip service, and kow tows to the 1%. In order to have responsive government you need to eliminate the ability for wealth to influence it.
Communist
Look at this: http://www.occupycorpuschristi.com/
Go to the bottom and look at all of the states. Someone bought up all the domains. This only shows that they're scared!
That website is EXACTLY what this article is referring to. They're trying to break us apart, change what we stand for, and make 'celebrities' the icons of the movement. the SAME thing happened to the original Tea Party movement.
Get the word out, make sure people know what we stand for and stay true to it!
http://feedtheprotest.com/node/315
Occupy Wall Street is NOT affiliated with Unions, MoveOn, or ANY Dems or Repubs… http://tl.gd/dg872d
Then someone is lying to the media.
Is it you, or the Unions, Dems, Repubs, or MoveOn?
http://www.bing.com/search?q=unions%20occupy%20wall%20street&FORM=WLETLB&PC=WLEM&QS=n
Here in Green Bay, in the story comments in the Press-Gazette, the people trying to paint OWS as a George Soros project are the same ol' Dittoheads and White Power cranks who shit on everything. The kind of people who go to a parade hoping to see the girl drop the baton and cry. We call them the Flat Earthers.
Get a load of this:
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/comments/article/20111007/GPG0101/110070639/Occupy-Appleton-Green-Bay-demonstration-events-set
You are being used. Soros took over MoveOn in 2007.
Since I am colored, what are the chances a "White Power" group would have me?
This movement is Soros. It is a progressive open society socialistic type movement. I've seen too much and heard too much from the ones in hiding creating all this for the drones on the streets...
Just like they call the original teaparty people to disenfranchise them, they are now calling us fleabaggers.
If we don't take a little soap and water to our temples, the name will fit.
Divide and conquer. Herman Cain completely mischaracterizes the movement.
http://news.yahoo.com/cain-rails-against-wall-street-protesters-234209220.html
The 1% are scrambling to keep America divided. Yahoo has disabled their comment section to keep the truth from being heard.
Address these lies today, and don't take the Dem vs Rep bait.
We are not, "jealous of Wall Street and bankers." We understand that our ENTIRE government only serves the 1% who have bought it. We are fighting for a real democracy. We are fighting to get all soft money out of politics. We are fighting for our future. We are fighting to get our representative government back.
This is why I don't have yahoo mail, nor never go on the site. Can HC honestly sit there and say Wall Street has made money the "old fashioned" way over the past 30 years? With Paulson going up to the Senate/WH and having backdoor meetings to get his cronies 3/4 of a trillion dollars?? Tanking the market to fear-monger to get the bill passed without discourse? Is THAT old-fashioned HC??!! Is THAT capitalism?? Capitalism would have you sink or swim based on your own decisions. Wall Street did not sink based on their casino-like bets. They waged war to get a life preserver - our future and our money. I think we all know the new definition of insanity..
The mortgages were govt guaranteed... And, the banks repaid the bailout loans with interest. The ones being foreclosed on should've never bought the house to start with.
Doesn't half or more of the US budget get distributed back to "we the people"?
Can you define "real democracy" please?
We have never seen a real democracy. Perhaps we will in our lifetime. That's not a concern at the moment (IOM). We are taking direct action for the 99%.
So you're fighting for "real democracy", but we've never seen it and can't define it. How do you know then what you're fighting for and how will you know a real democracy when you see it. If you can't explain your problem, perhaps the problem lies within yourself.
What is the direct action you are taking for the 99% and have you asked all of them if they want or need you to take that undefined action on their behalf? Perhaps your little bowl movement thinks too highly of itself and only speaks for it's own little segment of this big beautifully free, capitalist loving country.
I enjoyed reading your comment. I needed a good laugh. I think the folks in the movement are pretty modest (not speaking for myself. You sound like you are frustrated. Maybe you have been beaten down, but don't know why, or who did the injustice to you (maybe it's the fact that not all people share your views). I do know what we are fighting for is real change(not the fake change that our President spouted). If you just read the news other the the corporate media (kind of hard to find I know) you might know why we are taking to the streets. Ask your neighbor maybe he/she understands.
@GodBlessUSA ... Romans 13:1-7. I don't know, what do you think?
At this time bible verses have no place in the wallstreet occupation.
Sorry.. you speak for the occupation? I don't think so.
Just open societies, right?
the word is actually bowel. a bowl is something you put cereal in...or a post-season football game.
A juvenile attempt at logic... The only people you appeal to with such arguments are the ones too simple to realize the obvious counter-argument (of which there are very few on this site). We know what we are fighting for because we are capable of having a vision made up of IDEAS and not preexisting partisan limitations. If you can't see the problems around you, CERTAINLY your biggest problem lies within yourself.
Your IDEAS are unAmerican with your ecovillages and trade based markets.
"unAmerican" is the emptiest insult of all nowadays... what is American to you anyway?
If you still believe we have a representative democracy, you have been fooled. We believe in a government of the people, for the people. Not this farce of democracy that is our current system.
The near entirety of the US government is corrupt and run by political Bribe-takers, bought and paid for by people who have amassed the most wealth overall in this country (Top 1% of the US Population).
These politicians, now solely representing their backers and not the voters, turn around and pass legislation that gives the Super Rich here every advantage possible, including free money (Subsidies/Bailouts), lower taxes and zero accountability for their actions.
This isn't capitalism. This is plutocracy.
If you remove all soft money from politics, make lobbing illegal (it's a bribe), and create a free election system, we can have a real democracy.
Good points. I hope some of the naysayers now COMPREHEND the mission of occupywallstreet.
Long Live This New Revolution. A Government For The People,By the People.
You are represented went you vote. The only subsidies given by govt are to pet industries like the green movement.
Not to promote any political ideals or party on a site who's message is a mixture of political views, but I encourage people to check out Citizens Party (http://www.votecitizens.org/), a small 3rd party with liberal, conservative, and moderate views. Perhaps most important is the elimination of PACs and lobbyist influence. I have just recently discovered this party, and have no association with them.
No nay never - see my above post and the dangers of being co-opted
Why is a "real democracy", or for that matter a democracy at all, an ideal goal? My interpretation of "real democracy" is majority rules. And that means minorities get creamed. I want peace and freedom. I think the way to get that is rule of law, not rule of the majority.
The main issue here seems to be the difference between one person one vote democracy and one dollar one vote democracy. We have a system which idealizes the former while moving towards the later.
The reason the minority doesn't get creamed in a representative democracy is that (hopefully) most people are capable of actually sympathizing with others and realizing that if some minority is being treated unfairly today then the next minority on the list could likely be one they are a part of. If the majority is made up of sociopaths, you probably have bigger problems than your system of government.
By the way, laws are created. Sometimes through democracy. Sometimes by the elite. Sometimes they are really unfair. Sometimes nobody realizes until after they become laws. Sometimes they get repealed.
Do you have a political system you would advocate for over democracy? Theocracy perhaps, in which the laws are given directly from a perfect God?
Thomas Jefferson: "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." "A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51% of the people may take away the rights of the other 49%."
Alexander Hamilton, Federalist Papers: "We are a Republican Government, Real liberty is never found in despotism or in the extremes of democracy...it has been observed that a pure democracy if it were practicable would be the most perfect government. Experience has proved that no position is more false than this. The ancient democracies in which the people themselves deliberated never possessed one good feature of government. Their very character was tyranny; their figure deformity."
John Adams: "That the desires of the majority of the people are often for injustice and inhumanity against the minority, is demonstrated by every page of the history of the world."
I think it is important for our system to derive all of it's power from the people. I also think it's important that our government not be a system by which everyone sees the government as an agent of legalized theft (if I and my kind can get control, we can take from they and their kind, since that's what they did to me). I know this is hard given that our current system has the few benefiting at the expense of the many.. but the solution isn't the many benefiting at the expense of the few, either. The system must protect the natural rights of each of us, be we in the majority or the minority. That's why the constitution and rule of law is so important.
I recommend Frederic Bastiat's "The Law", at least the beginning of it. It's short, and available online here for free: http://bastiat.org/en/the_law.html
I agree completely!
Right now we got a plutocracy that snuck in the back door. TheY need to be moved out of the way in order for the democracy to once again thrive. Note: The 1929 crash brought about a true democracy in the 1930's. FDR was elected at a most difficult time. But unions came into full exsistence too. It took 20 yrs for the country to get back on its feet. The middle-class finally made ground. Since 1982 to middle-class has taken a downward slop,when RonReagon fired theair-traffic controllers. He was a puppet for the corporations doing there bidding. Middle/working class Americans are now SERFS!
The middle class isn't doing too badly. They live in much larger homes, usually own more than 1 car, have a plethera of electronic devices and services, and eat out almost every night while clothing their kids in the finest teeniebopper brands...
But the middle class is disappearing. Middle/working class are headed down. Unions are needed more than ever - not because we need more uneducated people but because they limit the reach of that 1%.
A democratic republic. Like we have now. Are you sympathizing with the minority 1%? Trusting your fellow man to sympathize doesn't seem to be working - even now in the beginning.
Oh, shit.... then we really would be fucked (about a theocracy)!!!!
as Churchill said, the biggest argument against democracy is the average voter. That being said, there are (currently?) no better alternatives at all.
And the democracy of any nation up until now has not been even near 100%, only making it worse.
If we cannot have the best (since there is no better), why not at least make sure we at least fully enjoy the possibilities that democracy offers.
Nobody is talking about living without law. We might indeed need more laws, to prevent the lucky few from exercising increasingly suffocating ways to 'rule' all the others.
There are good people in all classes, but also bad ones. The problem is that with so much money and influence, the lucky few are protected from any consequences to their actions. It is time to change that. NOW. And not only in the US, but everywhere! *The US is a good (and the only) start, because they make other countries 'choose' to be 'with or against us' on EVERYTHING including WARS, LAWS, COPYRIGHTS and much, much more.
Our current system as it was intended is better than a true democracy.
I totally agree. Great thoughts.
Hopefully, we never will lest we be at the mercy of the tyranny of the majority.
Herman Cain does say exactly what outside observers see in this movement though. A bunch of whiny kids who are mad that they aren't in the 1% and want to take from the rich to give to the poor (themselves) with no regard for how hard a 1%er may have worked for their money or how lazy a 99%er is. The movement also seems to see everyone who is doing ok for themselves as "the evil 1%" even if they aren't actually in that group.
Herman Cain is a big mouth, selfish, defensive jerk who can't answer questions when he's asked. He's another tool in the right wing tool box.
He is a tool in the coming Theocracy.
All those tea party people are hot air. They are all in competition on how many millions are they can raise. Yesterday I was on the metro on my way to the march in dc when I saw the examiner stating that Perry raised 17.2 mil in a matter of days. You think Im going to vote for a a@@hole like him,just cause he can raise cash...cash that he should be giving to the unempolyed.I think of all the homes that could be saved with that kind of money.Greedy is all he and the rest of the tbpartiers are. They fool no one. Not to be concerned ..they are going to be pushed out the way. They have no LOGICAL words for the 99% at this time.
Move Move Get Out of The Way..the revolution has come! Stand Strong 99% America!
Those are contributions.
But what about earnings? Who are you to decide what anyone should do with their money? Will you be the arbiter of moral decency? Will you decide how much someone can keep of their own labor?
I totally agree. Most are corporate schmucks pandering even more to the corporations. The governor of Michigan is the exact same.
Do you ever see a Republican/Libertarian/Tea Party member start any kind of foundation after they leave politics? I don't know of any.
What good is a foundation or nonprofit, for that matter? The leaders of this movement seem to come from nothing but nonprofits (which only means they pay the workers all the 'profit' to allude any taxes.)
I'm doing OK for myself (I own a house, I paid my car off, I paid off my student loan, I travel around the world, I dine out all the time, I play several sports of which I pay for myself, I save money, etc.) on a moderate income, yet I'm NOT in the 1% and never will be, and I support this protest 100%..... because I'm one of the 99%.
This protest is fighting CRIME that has been allowed by our government, committed by many on Wall St. and in corporations. It's NOT about jealousy and wanting to take what others have. It's NOT HARD to figure out.
Your opinion is completely wrong and misguided. Take your face out of the right wing propaganda punch.
What crime? If there is crime, wouldn't there be convictions?
If the movement isn't about taking, then who is to pay for the healthcare for all? or the free college education? or the forgiveness of debt? or the house for everyone? Sounds like quite alot of taking to me.
The media is telling them to think that way. We have seen it written and reported in those exact words numerous times. The agenda of the 1% can only be advanced in a divided country, that sadly believes either side is their's. It's our job to spread the truth to ALL Americans.
I agree with your sentiment that a divided country is troublesome. I'm however concerned that the OWS message is divisive. Take this comment:
"We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments."
This statement alienates a lot of people. People who believe that corporations are the fundamental unit of business, which provides for the necessities of life. This also alienates those who understand inequality as the natural state of man (we are all unique, not one of us is equal to another). I think if you were attacking corporatISM, that is the marriage of corporations with government, and you were very careful not to attack corporations, legitimate businesses, and the rich, your message would be more broadly appealing.
OWEN & CHIGRL - These arguments are lame,. the 1% are not "well off" we are talking about people that have billions,. not just a nice house. Corporations could be a useful organizational structure,. however as they are instituted today,. in law,. they are only destructive. See: The Corporation documentary. etc. this is the problem with the proponents of "freemarket" such are Ron the Paul,. he want to remove all regulations giving wealth the ultimate control. As most people understand once you have vast wealth it is easy to use it to make more,. and to control any thing that stand in the way of you doing that. No ONE can generate billions in wealth for themselves this is a corporate lie,. the only way to generate such vast fortunes is through manipulations and controls that rise directly from wealth concentrations to begin with,. it is a feedback loop!
There are less than 2000 billionaires.. the 1% must include mere multi-millionaires too.
Nothing you said changes the fact that the comment, part of the official published OWS message, is divisive. There are a lot of people who believe that freedom, legitimate & honest business & capitalism, and natural inequalities are all important parts of our society. If you just tell me I'm wrong, you're turning me away from your cause, and I expect many others too.
You got it right!
Yep!!
The revolving list of names on the top wealthiest Americans is everchanging. It proves that people gain wealth and lose it. The dream is that you also have an oppotunity to be one who gains it...
what it sounds like you are fighting for is to make everybody equal. same income same opportunity. that is not what life is all about it is about the law of harvest. you reap what you sow. Then to get violent in new york city is just rediculous. I am a college grad started my own business and working hard from the bottom. there are no shortcuts to success.
I'm sorry but you're wrong. This is the statement offered by OWS:
http://youtu.be/N8o3peQq79Q
If you disagree with any part of this, please feel free to discuss further.
"As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known."
I see a contradiction here: calling for a system to protect our rights, and at the same time calling for a "true democracy". If I interpret "true democracy" right, that means rule of the majority, which leaves the minority unprotected. Unless it is intended to mean something like the rule of law system that was this country's founding. In which case it is misleading to call it a democracy.
Don't give them free publicity by linking their page. At least use a nofollow tag (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nofollow)
I post material from other site
and when I do I always post a link back to the source
I choose what source I'm willing to post a link to
Could someone PLEASE have the admins change the link above to a NO FOLLOW link??
Thanks!!!
who ever made this site is hiding who they are
They are using a company that hides the real name of the registrant in the who is database
Registrant ID:80f32a9550373d1a Registrant Name:Domain Hostmaster, CustomerID : 00528709397258 Registrant Organization:Whois Privacy Services Pty Ltd
It looks like a Richard Berman website to me.
From what I've found on Richard Berman, he's not Australian. So if it is him he's sure going out of his way registering this site form Queensland. But what Aussie do we all know that loves to get involved in American Politics?
isn't this site hiding its registrant's name, too?
I'm sure its because they don't want to be targeted. I don't blame them. However, I have my name on my site, which explains a tactic that I think we should use. Check it out at: http://sites.google.com/site/onecompanyatatime. If you agree, spread the word.
good work.... now send them a virus
No
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act
okay okay... its was just an impulse...
NO! YOU PUT THEM ON OVERLOAD.
Well, I don't know what the purpose of that site is. Perhaps it's someone just trying to funnel some dollars into their pockets by riding on the movement's name. Perhaps the movement will form political institutions later on, but there's no reason to expect that that website will the party which represents it.
Btw, I think it's hilarious that the advertisement on that site advertises the French laundry restaurant with its $500 dinner. That's SO 99% <\sarcasm>.
Hahah the ads for me were about becoming a police officer... right on point. anyway i cant take a site like that seriously with ads.
Ads are served to you based on what you click on while browsing. That's how direct marketing works these days.They aren't the same for everyone.
This should be someplace More Prominent on the Site!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was totally freaking out about this!!
what does wall street business do for the 99%? i work for a large corporation and we/they (management) always point out we are doing it for the shareholders. the only shareholders that it helps are the ones with alot of money and insider trading along with someone which they pay to watch the market 24/7 to buy and sell on a moments notice. well, with 3children and a collective income of around 50 -60k a year between myself and spouse I can't afford to hire someone to manipulate the market like these CEO's and upper management do on a regular basis. i feel wall street was a good idea at one time ( back when people WORKED for an HONEST days pay) No more all you need is a talking head that points to charts does a little PR (public relations) and smiles alot. these people don't go out and work or speak with people on the floor, not unless there's a PR gimmick going on. I'm not saying all large corporations are like that but I'd bet my pay check that the majority are like that. It's not what i can do for you it's what can you do for me. $$$$$. I feel we need to make people aware of what wall street actually does for the 99% , the question is: what does wall street do for me?
As for the Occupy Movement, its detractors don’t seem to get this: MORE JOBS (no more outsourcing), FAIR TAXATION (no more trying to make billionaires out of millionaires who want us to spill out blood overseas, FREE OF CHARGE!) and RE-REGULATION OF THE CORPORATIONS who created this mess and who FINANCE ITS CONTINUATION! Oy vey, Maria, what’s not to get?
As for the Occupy Movement, its detractors don’t seem to get this: MORE JOBS (no more outsourcing), FAIR TAXATION (no more trying to make billionaires out of millionaires who want us to spill out blood overseas, FREE OF CHARGE!) and RE-REGULATION OF THE CORPORATIONS who created this mess and who FINANCE ITS CONTINUATION! Oy vey, Maria, what’s not to get?
I suspect that comments are slip-sliding off of this page.
bump for 'FYI'
Oh boy, the shit is flying at you people now from every direction! I'm not surprised. The PTB are getting more and more worried every day you go forward with this protest.
Oops. I am looking at theoccupationparty.com. Is this site affiliated? So confusing.
The Occupy Wall Street "Party" is organizing a big move on Times Square on Saturday. WHO ARE THEY? IS THIS A TRAP? The OWS leadership needs to send a clearer message on where the "official" movement stands with the "Party."
It's funny to me that the site welcomes unions to help support and organize the "party." If this movement were to bring about the creation of a new political party close ties with unions would only bring about more of the same cronyism seen already.
We are the generation who will fulfill REVELATION OF THE HOLY BIBLE---Bilderbergs plan to chip every man woman and child before 2017---THE RFID CHIP IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST---The anti-christ only gets 3 and a half years as the NWO leader--then-JESUS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF ALMIGHTY CREATOR GOD comes to thrust anti-christ and false prophet into the fiery pit-----JESUS COMES SOON TO BE WITH US 1000 YEARS!!!!!
cover site, every post is by the same person, its a political front perse
cover site, every post is by the same person, its a political front perse
As far as I can tell, this is a site to enable some dispersal of info (video formats) plus communication. Not sure what you mean by 'we are not a political institution.' So what? What's your point? Let's agree not to be cynical, skeptical, and anger about everything, doubting everything and everybody. Being cautious and critically evaluating is, of course, absolutely necessary but let's not drift into paranoia and questioning everything just because we are angry.
Hey, I know that...you're doing better than Woodstock. Go, people, go.
push congress to end bush tax cuts , rebuild America bridges and roads , invest in middle class not banking class thats the occupy wall street message
529 comments on a scam site. Focus your energy on the real. Don't you agree?
Do not pay attention. They will go away. Think.
Growing up, most of us were taught that if we wanted to change things in America, we could do it at the ballot box. Well, today large numbers of Americans are realizing that both major political parties have been bought and paid for. http://youtu.be/p3Ven1km2y4
Growing up, most of us were taught that if we wanted to change things in America, we could do it at the ballot box. Well, today large numbers of Americans are realizing that both major political parties have been bought and paid for. http://youtu.be/p3Ven1km2y4
You can still change things at the ballot box, unless it is you who is being paid.
Wow, make sure you announce the evidence below about who is sponsoring the occupyparty crap at the GA! Back it up with some other info of course, and you should edit the blog post about this because a lot of people will not know otherwise, and that is exactly what the 1%ers want.
For "This" to work for WHO!!! Don't mention Race, Politics, Religion or any real ISSUES, just follow your way to the pits of the TEA BAGGERS re-inventing themselves. I have gone to several pages of people organizing and they ALL are Racist-Stereo-Typing sites. So, as you say do not speak follow-- I will NOT. Also, to be SHEEPLE is not a good look! There is a reason this is so random RACISTS are at the core and are directing "SHEEP" to follow with no sense of where they are being lead!
I wanted to share this with the group.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcePaR1LSVA
Enjoy.
For what it's worth, appointed spokes persons might be a better alternative than the title of "representative" or some kind of "official." My thinking on this is that words, and especially titles, mean certain things and project an image of authority. In this movement it seems that the people are the authority thus, more of a "voice" of the people could possibly convey the messages of the people.
It seems to be that an appointed spokes person doesn't project their own authority but the voice of the many, through them.
To form as a political entity at this point...I think is not the best choice...and yes...that site is obscene and I'm sure another attempt to hijack and eventually dissolve this movement.
Stay strong.
Peace
if someone is not being truthful (look it up) post theier name and address so that they can be delt with.
if someone is not being truthful (look it up) post theier name and address so that they can be delt with.
Why not Washington and the White House? Tha't's where it starts. William M Daley, Chief of Staff, is from at JPMorgan Chase, where he was paid $5 million a year to supervise the Washington lobbying efforts. Obama’s nominee for Secretary of Commence is Jeffery R. Immelt, GE's Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of CEO. GE is still receiving billions in bail out, doesn’t pay taxes and 80% of their jobs overseas.
This is what our founders think about all this corruption.
That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness
What's the word on this one: "Occupy the Democratic Party":
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/04/1022807/-Occupy-the-Democratic-Party
"Having been active in lefty-progressive economic populist (and admittedly also the intellectual elite version) politics since my teens in the mid 1970s (and for what it matters blogging here since 2004), I would have one goal for the movement: And that is for us to take over the Democratic Party."
I read much of why we fight, the truth of this fight, and even how to organize for this fight by reading “The Book of Jack” by Gandesbery. I hope that is blessed, I hope you have it with you. I plan to buy 10 copies to hand out in my home town. May God Blass you all for being so brave and him for writing how to do it. It’s funny how the socialist big money machine is attempting to ignore you, me, us. You know that CNN and other owned mouth pieces of the old money that controls us tries so hard not to talk about us in a positive way. Their fake news spewed out over the nation is set against us. Yes against America at large.
They don’t like to admit that the Tea Party, The Occupation of Wall street, the support of Ron Paul over their socialist puppet choices are all linked. We the people, the pissed off, fed up, and fully awake now people. It’s the 99% finally taking off the blinders and the chains. God Bless You. America never mind we begin to see them for who they are. Focus on change and move only forward. Remain invested in the futures of OUR tomorrow. Fighting now spares dying later. May God Bless Your Efforts/Lives!!!!!
I came to this site Friday night to offer my assistance as a non-profit organizer. I can do basic coding of web pages, accounting, and other functions.
Mainly I wanted to get some sanitation facilities out to Zucotto (sic) park.
In a matter of about 20 minutes I found over 15 contact listings, and left vmail and email on every one of them.
24 hours later, no response. They aren't even updating the site anymore.
Where did everyone, and the "tens of thousands" http://afgj.org/?p=1765#more-1765 of dollars go?
Well, the General Assembly never was in the US, they are operating out of a hotel room somewhere in Nicaragua, and the money has been deposited in a Central American bank.
How could the people do this to our citizens, how can members of our government support this?
They have to know, it only took me 20 minutes to find out, and they had days and hundreds of people on their staffs.
It's a scam. They are scamming everyone. And, that website tries to attack anyone who opens that page.
We've been fooling around for too long with parties. We need to be in the streets and refine our process for a while.
Way to go NPR! Occupy pary exposed. http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/10/06/141119164/seemingly-bogus-website-uses-occupy-party-name-to-sell-ads
This looks like a cynical attempt to rip people off for money and personal information.
http://www.pir.org/get/faq/dispute
I am proud too see that all the protesters are using peaceful means of civil disobedience at GreedStock. Remember the words of Samual Gompers, a cigar maker and founder of the AFL labor movement..."reward your friends, and punish your ememy".
I am proud too see that all the protesters are using peaceful means of civil disobedience at GreedStock. Remember the words of Samual Gompers, a cigar maker and founder of the AFL labor movement..."reward your friends, and punish your ememy".
Lobbying by Corporations should be Against the Law PERIOD. Anyone with an active political position that accepts lobbying should be removed and thrown into jail for life. Not the nice kind of jail, but =the bend you over kind of jail.
Why aren't all of the Occupy Groups (EVERY international one) considered a part of the occupy together?
So, what do we do about this? Do we share it as a warning, or do we ignore it to squash it?
The tactic of "bad attention is still attention"?
occupyparty.org sounds more like a bunch of Tea Party fools trying to take advantage.
it is
fuel for the discussion
occupyparty.org sounds more like a bunch of Tea Party fools trying to take advantage.
I don't know who this website belogs to, but it is not totally abhorent, and cerianly not anti Occupy Wall Street. I hid my website information because there may be a few folks out there that don't believe in the kind of change we are trying to accomplish. It is interesting that I published my website a short time before the occupation and had been working on the concept and whether or not to go forward with it for about a year; its a little intimidating taking on the status quo but here we all are. Occupy Wall Street is a political as it gets, in a very good way; orgnizational preferences aside. I thank God for all of you who can do what you are doing for those of us who can't; you are real heroes in my book. My website consists of a single idea for a constitutional amendment to correct the problem; with no other political agenda. You can check it out at:
http://thefreedomamendment.com/
I have your website listed and have deferred any donations people may want to give to your organization and have kept your link up to date; hope you don't mind. Just saying there are a lot of people out there that have reached critical mass at the same time over the same issues and we don't all have to agree perfectly to form a united force for change. Thanks and peace to all who read this.
I don't know who this website belogs to, but it is not totally abhorent, and cerianly not anti Occupy Wall Street. I hid my website information because there may be a few folks out there that don't believe in the kind of change we are trying to accomplish. It is interesting that I published my website a short time before the occupation and had been working on the concept and whether or not to go forward with it for about a year; its a little intimidating taking on the status quo but here we all are. Occupy Wall Street is a political as it gets, in a very good way; orgnizational preferences aside. I thank God for all of you who can do what you are doing for those of us who can't; you are real heroes in my book. My website consists of a single idea for a constitutional amendment to correct the problem; with no other political agenda. You can check it out at:
http://thefreedomamendment.com/
I have your website listed and have deferred any donations people may want to give to your organization and have kept your link up to date; hope you don't mind. Just saying there are a lot of people out there that have reached critical mass at the same time over the same issues and we don't all have to agree perfectly to form a united force for change. Thanks and peace to all who read this.
DOS?
Why are you intimidated to close your eyes for better future political regime? Are you dependent on US federal regime?
While that picture at the top of the occupyparty.org page looked like something Stephen Colbert might have come up with and didn't fool me for a minute, I'll admit the occupymissouri.com site had me going for a while. Until I saw that Rand Paul banner ad and remembered what it says right at the top of this page, "We are not a political institution." And that's correct! Some have criticized the movement as lacking in direction, but I thought someone from Occupy Utah put it well. "If you’ve ever been involved in a 12-step addiction recovery program, you realize you don’t need to have all the answers. You just need to take the first step, which is admitting there’s a problem." Both political parties are addicted to corporate campaign contributions and the influence of lobbyists. Curing that addiction is what Occupy Wall Street is all about, at least the way I see it. As I was thinking about that, a banner ad for soap coupons came up on the occupytennessee site. It sort of made me feel they were insulting our intelligence by thinking we'd fall for such obvious fakes. "Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, I won't get fooled again" or something like that, So I decided to have a little fun with some of the screenshots from their sites, whoever "they" are. http://willrichardson.net/funhouse/fauxpages.htm
I hope the movement remains non-partisan, both parties are subservient to the corporations that own the political process. I was on pins and needles watching the video of #OccupyAtlanta as it voted a straw poll to decide whether to permit Congressman John Lewis to address the General Assembly. It decided no merely because their was no consensus.
I totally agree with Lawrence Lessig, the Roy L. Furman Professor of Law at Harvard Law Schoo, who said:
The really great transformative possibility for OWS would be to defy the pundits and politicians; to resist the simple labeling; to frame itself instead as a radically diverse group all of whom believe this system is corrupt. Let corruption be the common refrain, and Left/Right becomes irrelevant.
yes! We need broader goals!
Look to the Greeks. Which is what our system was based on. Engaged citizens. That's where the power has always been and where it still is. You all have awakened your citizenship. Keep it up. Be demanding, be citizens!!! Don't worry about being a party just yet. Build your ship and your fellow citizens will keep wind in your sales.
Spokes people will emerge, for now just keep building.
Because the Greeks are doing so well?
Sent you some money today through nation of change. Keep it up. Would be there with you if we could. It's about time.
Politically and economically the Elite was Government has manage to eradicate economic class values. This results in that we are all equal share holders in this country by title. Everyone know as well as the next person that we are not equal in the government and economy. The result of this protest is going to be a reconversion to "What class you fall in to," which is not necessarily a bad thing at this point in time. These class specifications will divide further rather than 1% versus 99%. We need that "Upper, Middle, and Lower Class" statuses. Seems to me that everyone is now middle class.
Just a suggestion perhaps OWS should include protesting the Lobbyists that make billions of dollars bribing politicians for the Corporations! They are the Corporate Prostitutes! Make it illegal!
that picture they're using on occupyparty.org shows up all over the place. ( http://www.tineye.com/search/4b5359613062c3c911b2a55e7b08655752d1d1e5/?pluginver=firefox-1.1) that link will expire in 72 hours but you can do another search using the Tineye plugin to find them again- here are a couple of examples from the above search: http://kcgop.org/sitemax/Portals/0/homeHeader.jpg , http://hancock.constitutioncenter.org/constitutionday/download/attachments/592/wtp_banner.jpg
I walked down to the Occupy Boston rally yesterday. I read the signs and spoke to some of the people. All they seem to want is fair chance to make an honest living while being left alone to think their own thoughts.
I am not a representative, nor I am associated with the group. I am only sympathetic to their cause, but I think, if they had a list of goals they would be something like this:
Three very simple goals: 1. That the American dream includes the right to make an honest living, one by which people can support themselves and their families. If a person performs some valuable task, either by working for someone else or themselves, they should be respected and paid accordingly. Everyone who makes money should expect to pay his or her fair share of taxes. The real American dream is not that everyone desires to be a billionaire, but that everyone would like to live comfortably, enjoying friends and family, in a stable society. They should be able to trust that their jobs are secure, the financial system is sound and that investing in the stock market is fair for everyone. No one should be afraid that people who have more money and power would try to take everything for themselves.
This is what we have now! It's good.
Koch Brothers
occupyjpmorgan.com / market cap: 119.7b usd, domain value: 1197 usd
occupymorganstanley.com / market cap: 27.5b usd, domain value: 275 usd
occupycreditsuisse.com / market cap: 30.2b usd, domain value: 302 usd
occupybarclays.com / market cap: 30.29b usd, domain value: 302 usd
occupycitigroup.com / market cap: 71.8b usd, domain value: 718 usd
occupyubs.com / market cap: 42.5b usd, domain value: 425 usd
Thank goodness. It's either some weird CIA agitaprop site or bankers. SCAM
http://wedemay1.blogspot.com/
occupyparty.org is a shady looking site. Its registered a few days ago on Oct 02, 2011 by someone from Australia as per who.is database... weird indeed. mofos trying to throw sand in our eyes. As usual.
As long as there is a political party system there will be corruption and greed. If a bill goes in front of the congress we have now it is decided by the power party(majority). If a bill goes in front of the congress and it is a republican bill, democrats will not vote for it to pass whether a good bill or not and vice versa just because the other party put it in. But truly the party did not put that bill up it was the lobbyists that presented that bill to that party and told them if they present they bill the lobbyists would support them financially at election time. So we need to get rid of the party system and have politicians run on their own merit and what they have done for the population not the lobbyists and their own pockets. If they are truly an honest politician under that system they would not need LOBBYISTS financial backing but would have the backing of their constituents.
Just linked a page of mine to occupymissouri.com, but I'm afraid they may be hooked up with those occupyparty folks. I yanked the link when I noticed a big Rand Paul banner on it and I ain't gonna go there. The Paul banner is gone now, but there are ads all over it. Plus a copyright notice at the bottom. And I just checked the domain whois and it's the same privacy service out of Australia that the occupyparty.org used. False flag! Check it out. http://occupymissouri.com/
Replying to my own comment:
Here's the whois info on occupyparty.org and occupymissouri.com I've got a feeling somebody's trying to hijack the movement in MO. Does anybody know if occupymissouri is affilliated with occupywallst? Info pasted below:
whois: http://occupymissouri.com/
This domain is protected by Whois Privacy Services Pty Ltd. For more information please visit www.whoisprivacyservices.com.au
Domain occupymissouri.com: Whois Privacy Services Pty Ltd Domain Hostmaster, Customer ID : 15391706685320 15391706685320-a2b4ec@whoisprivacyservices.com.au PO Box 923 Fortitude Valley QLD 4006 AU
Administrative contact: Technical contact: Billing contact: Whois Privacy Services Pty Ltd Domain Hostmaster, Customer ID : 15391706685320 15391706685320-a2b4ec@whoisprivacyservices.com.au PO Box 923 Fortitude Valley QLD 4006 AU Phone: Phone: +61.730070090 Fax: Phone: +61.730070091
Record dates: Record created on: 2011-10-02 16:12:38 UTC Record modified on: 2011-10-03 18:58:24 UTC Record expires on: 2012-10-02 UTC
Nameservers: ns.propagation.net: ns2.propagation.net:
Note: Automated collection of data from this database is strictly prohibited.
Domain Name: OCCUPYMISSOURI.COM Registrar: FABULOUS.COM PTY LTD. Whois Server: whois.fabulous.com Referral URL: http://www.fabulous.com Name Server: NS.PROPAGATION.NET Name Server: NS2.PROPAGATION.NET Status: clientTransferProhibited Updated Date: 03-oct-2011 Creation Date: 02-oct-2011 Expiration Date: 02-oct-2012
whois: occupyparty.org
Domain ID:D163488998-LROR Domain Name:OCCUPYPARTY.ORG Created On:02-Oct-2011 05:19:52 UTC Last Updated On:07-Oct-2011 01:35:57 UTC Expiration Date:02-Oct-2015 05:19:52 UTC Sponsoring Registrar:Fabulous.com Pty Ltd. (R133-LROR) Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED Status:CLIENT UPDATE PROHIBITED Status:TRANSFER PROHIBITED Status:RENEWPERIOD Registrant ID:80f32a9550373d1a Registrant Name:Domain Hostmaster, CustomerID : 00528709397258 Registrant Organization:Whois Privacy Services Pty Ltd Registrant Street1:PO Box 923 Registrant Street2: Registrant Street3: Registrant City:Fortitude Valley Registrant State/Province:QLD Registrant Postal Code:4006 Registrant Country:AU Registrant Phone:+61.730070090 Registrant Phone Ext.: Registrant FAX:+61.730070091 Registrant FAX Ext.: Registrant Email:00528709397258-0e2fca@whoisprivacyservices.com.au Admin ID:80f32a9550373d1a Admin Name:Domain Hostmaster, CustomerID : 00528709397258 Admin Organization:Whois Privacy Services Pty Ltd Admin Street1:PO Box 923 Admin Street2: Admin Street3: Admin City:Fortitude Valley Admin State/Province:QLD Admin Postal Code:4006 Admin Country:AU Admin Phone:+61.730070090 Admin Phone Ext.: Admin FAX:+61.730070091 Admin FAX Ext.: Admin Email:00528709397258-0e2fca@whoisprivacyservices.com.au Tech ID:80f32a9550373d1a Tech Name:Domain Hostmaster, CustomerID : 00528709397258 Tech Organization:Whois Privacy Services Pty Ltd Tech Street1:PO Box 923 Tech Street2: Tech Street3: Tech City:Fortitude Valley Tech State/Province:QLD Tech Postal Code:4006 Tech Country:AU Tech Phone:+61.730070090 Tech Phone Ext.: Tech FAX:+61.730070091 Tech FAX Ext.: Tech Email:00528709397258-0e2fca@whoisprivacyservices.com.au Name Server:NS2.PROPAGATION.NET Name Server:NS.PROPAGATION.NET
Replying to my own comment:
Here's the whois info on occupyparty.org and occupymissouri.com I've got a feeling somebody's trying to hijack the movement in MO. Does anybody know if occupymissouri is affilliated with occupywallst? Info pasted below:
whois: http://occupymissouri.com/
This domain is protected by Whois Privacy Services Pty Ltd. For more information please visit www.whoisprivacyservices.com.au
Domain occupymissouri.com: Whois Privacy Services Pty Ltd Domain Hostmaster, Customer ID : 15391706685320 15391706685320-a2b4ec@whoisprivacyservices.com.au PO Box 923 Fortitude Valley QLD 4006 AU
Administrative contact: Technical contact: Billing contact: Whois Privacy Services Pty Ltd Domain Hostmaster, Customer ID : 15391706685320 15391706685320-a2b4ec@whoisprivacyservices.com.au PO Box 923 Fortitude Valley QLD 4006 AU Phone: Phone: +61.730070090 Fax: Phone: +61.730070091
Record dates: Record created on: 2011-10-02 16:12:38 UTC Record modified on: 2011-10-03 18:58:24 UTC Record expires on: 2012-10-02 UTC
Nameservers: ns.propagation.net: ns2.propagation.net:
Note: Automated collection of data from this database is strictly prohibited.
Domain Name: OCCUPYMISSOURI.COM Registrar: FABULOUS.COM PTY LTD. Whois Server: whois.fabulous.com Referral URL: http://www.fabulous.com Name Server: NS.PROPAGATION.NET Name Server: NS2.PROPAGATION.NET Status: clientTransferProhibited Updated Date: 03-oct-2011 Creation Date: 02-oct-2011 Expiration Date: 02-oct-2012
whois: occupyparty.org
Domain ID:D163488998-LROR Domain Name:OCCUPYPARTY.ORG Created On:02-Oct-2011 05:19:52 UTC Last Updated On:07-Oct-2011 01:35:57 UTC Expiration Date:02-Oct-2015 05:19:52 UTC Sponsoring Registrar:Fabulous.com Pty Ltd. (R133-LROR) Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED Status:CLIENT UPDATE PROHIBITED Status:TRANSFER PROHIBITED Status:RENEWPERIOD Registrant ID:80f32a9550373d1a Registrant Name:Domain Hostmaster, CustomerID : 00528709397258 Registrant Organization:Whois Privacy Services Pty Ltd Registrant Street1:PO Box 923 Registrant Street2: Registrant Street3: Registrant City:Fortitude Valley Registrant State/Province:QLD Registrant Postal Code:4006 Registrant Country:AU Registrant Phone:+61.730070090 Registrant Phone Ext.: Registrant FAX:+61.730070091 Registrant FAX Ext.: Registrant Email:00528709397258-0e2fca@whoisprivacyservices.com.au Admin ID:80f32a9550373d1a Admin Name:Domain Hostmaster, CustomerID : 00528709397258 Admin Organization:Whois Privacy Services Pty Ltd Admin Street1:PO Box 923 Admin Street2: Admin Street3: Admin City:Fortitude Valley Admin State/Province:QLD Admin Postal Code:4006 Admin Country:AU Admin Phone:+61.730070090 Admin Phone Ext.: Admin FAX:+61.730070091 Admin FAX Ext.: Admin Email:00528709397258-0e2fca@whoisprivacyservices.com.au Tech ID:80f32a9550373d1a Tech Name:Domain Hostmaster, CustomerID : 00528709397258 Tech Organization:Whois Privacy Services Pty Ltd Tech Street1:PO Box 923 Tech Street2: Tech Street3: Tech City:Fortitude Valley Tech State/Province:QLD Tech Postal Code:4006 Tech Country:AU Tech Phone:+61.730070090 Tech Phone Ext.: Tech FAX:+61.730070091 Tech FAX Ext.: Tech Email:00528709397258-0e2fca@whoisprivacyservices.com.au Name Server:NS2.PROPAGATION.NET Name Server:NS.PROPAGATION.NET
Isn't this occupywallst website protected for privacy, too?
Yes it is. But at least they used a United States company. I don't see anything inherently wrong with that anymore than having an unlisted telephone number so you don't have telemarketers and nutballs calling you up all the time. Would you post your cell phone number on Facebook? Lots of people use those services for just those reasons. To satisfy my own curiosity, I'd love to know who registered this domain. But even if it turned out to be somebody I didn't agree with, I'd still thank them.
Where was everybody the last 20 yrs during Wallstreet's boom? Managing their investment portfolios. It was evil then as much as now. The public was seduced then by greed, and yet is.
Wallstreet. Tear it down brick by brick, investor by investor, CEO by CEO, deadly sin by deadly sin. Starve the rats out. It won't happen playing their game, playing the media, playing politicians. From the ashes will rise the pheonix. Let's get started.
Too many demands. We need to be focused on the one thing that will bring these crooks to their knees.
END THE FEDERAL RESERVE.
Thank you so much for joining together and standing up for all of us, the 99% percent. I hope that my donation and all the others help as much as possible towards continuing this long fight at such an important and economically devastating time in our nation's history. I'm originally from Michigan but I currently live in Pennsylvania, and I've lived in a number of the big cities where this revolution is rising. I will fully support you in every way that I can. Keep up the good fight! -Erin
Libertarians in sheep's clothing?
Whois info: Domain ID:D163488998-LROR Domain Name:OCCUPYPARTY.ORG Created On:02-Oct-2011 05:19:52 UTC Last Updated On:07-Oct-2011 01:35:57 UTC Expiration Date:02-Oct-2015 05:19:52 UTC Sponsoring Registrar:Fabulous.com Pty Ltd. (R133-LROR)
It appears to be an Austrailian Registration.
Conservatives, desperate to derail the Occupy Wall Street movement any way they can, have created an astroturf "party" to confuse the public and siphon off support from the real movement. They are clearly not connected with the real Occupy Wall Street movement in any way. They are an astroturf non-entity meant to confuse the public, and nothing more.
Their website is copyrighted, that's your first clue. Gotta protect their intellectual property, right? The Facebook for their "party" deletes any negative comments immediately -- disagree and you're gone in sixty seconds. Censorship, yeah that makes me want to join their party! Their plan is if we want change we should go work for the government... like that's going to do any good. They talk on and on about "patriots", "founding fathers" and "this great nation"... eeww. Look at all the freshly scrubbed suburban faces waving flags on their website and you'll know they're not the real deal.
Don't be fooled -- the occupy "party" is astroturf meant to confuse you!
we need a clear goal. that will effect all us and provide us the changes we seek! we all could vote quickly on the issues via phone or computer.and eliminate the house of representatives we the people could make the changes that our elected officials will not!
Unions are good people and they are For Us. So having them on board is good. I live in SC and we aren't allowed to have unions but I wish we could. Our state governer would rather have no unions than jobs. If we had unions more people would want to work more.
Markman: unions aren't "allowed" in South Carolina? Is that possible? I didn't know a state could outlaw labor unions. God, that sucks.
Unions are good people and they are For Us. So having them on board is good. I live in SC and we aren't allowed to have unions but I wish we could. Our state governer would rather have no unions than jobs. If we had unions more people would want to work more.
Unions are good people and they are For Us. So having them on board is good. I live in SC and we aren't allowed to have unions but I wish we could. Our state governer would rather have no unions than jobs. If we had unions more people would want to work more.
This is a spam landing site run by company based in Queensland Australia. It is not a political entity unless Fabulious Prty Ltd is a political party in Australia.
Earthwarrior pointed out that News Corp (i.e., Rupert Murdoch) is from Australia... wouldn't that be a trip, if News Corp was behind this.
Dont know about all this tax rate stuff but Australia , Canada , Europe , and China run with significantly higher tax rates .. Its just a republican invention .. The countries that suffer fail not because of high tax rates but high debt .. government or private.
as do we
I think that ultimately direct involvement in the political process will be needed to bring about substantial change, however, I can see the thinking behind not forming a party in the traditional sense. I'm reminded of stories of Timothy Leary and the Youth International Party -- I seem to recall that Leary wanted to simply call it "The Party", and the "campaign sticker" would be the all-seeing eye on the back of the dollar bill -- anybody could simply cut one out and paste it up. Maybe that's not such a bad idea.
As for the process of getting someone elected -- could it be done as a write-in campaign done from just a facebook page or blogspot or whatever?
Heck, I might even consider going for such a thing. I want to see legal hemp/cannabis, the de-personing of corporations, a simplified progressive tax structure that the uber-rich simply cannot wiggle out of, and a true equal rights amendment that includes gender preference and gender identity. And the restoration of fair and equal time for political broadcasts, which would effectively tank fauxnews AND the practice of tacking little "editorials" onto factual news reports, effectively presenting political punditry as if it were fact.
lol http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/8893/56017580886e36f179bb.jpg
and lol again http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFVrBzuyhFA
Many people have expressed their opinion about the way forward in this movement.
There are 3 common flaws in the proposals 1)"demands" have to be approved within the existing political structure, 2)physical theft or violence would require interference from the government, 3)current political entities would absorb this movement, when the feeling in the air is that something absolutely new is required.
Here is my proposal: create a new national capitol. Only that move will be seen as satisfying when we look back on these events in the decades to come.
But how can this small movement break free from the current oligarchy that controls us? We are doctors, lawyers, and farmers just the same as our founding fathers. Yet, the principles they created have been distorted to serve the oligarchy. These principles should be renewed.
In creating a new and better seat of government, we have the most powerful tool ever created - the internet.
I suggest Kansas City, Kansas as a location for this new seat of government. A new and faster internet is being created there. An open and more benign canvas exists at this site, without the stifling history and "baggage" found on either coast.
We don't need to hate "them", we'll just focus on creating a better "us". The energy to do this, exists right now in New York.
CarryTheGrips
I've always lived in the central plains or west - and was thinking only a few days ago what a difference it would make if we had a more central location for our national capital! I'm retired - have lived 1/2 my life in the US, 1/2 in BC Canada - have never stepped foot in a national capital city. I don't think I want to help pay for moving a capital city - but maybe we could develop a system whereby the house and senate would have to hold sessions in other locations every so often. It would be good for them to be exposed to life outside the Beltway. They could make do with a sports stadium (IMO), an it would get them away from the lobbyists!
Thanks PegAnon!
Maybe moving the national capitol will become part of the debate.
Seeing new locations can freshen the thought process!
Can someone validate the claims made by this user?
"Slam1263 1 points 1 hour ago Once we allowed the Unions in, I knew we were done. OWS, I hardly knew ye. These people don't care about us, they supported this regime to the tune of $300,000,000.00. Three. Hundred. Million. Dollars. That would have bought homes, paid for community centers, filled food banks to bursting. They could have invested in community gardens, co-op day care, provided micro-loans to SMALL business, and helped tens of thousands in their collegiate pursuits. But they are Unions, tools for those that wish to continue the status quo. Unions, for the past 60 years have not helped anyone but themselves. Good-bye OWS, you have been swallowed by the very greed you wished to eliminate. Sleep well, if you can. You are all soulness now."
-$300,000,000? -What is this money going to? -Is this money real?
Kind of a concerning post, really.
SEIU gave over $60,000,000.00, by Andy's own admission.
And this is just one Union, the one that is trying to co-opt OWS
http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/seiu-prez-union-spent-607-million-to-elect-obama/blog-73625/
And the 'leaders' of this movement are in Nicarauga with the cash?
The "Occupyparty.org" is just what one would expect from the right wing. They are scared to death of the people's voice, and this is just a really crude attempt to silence us. The economic system that is strangling the world is the bastard child of feudalism. It cannot be fixed. It needs to be dismantled. Wall Street is the epicenter of global terrorism, and the real terrorists are the ones getting government bail-outs. They enjoy the fruits of socialism, while the other 99% enjoy the crumbs left over from the capitalist machine.
My concern is that - similarly to how the Tea Party was successfully schmoozed - this site could be opening salvo of a well-financed schmoozing of the unwary.
That's why I am trying to warn others How much Financial support have they given OWS? $5k, $10k? All they are doing in sending their stooges into our lines, is preparing for a take over.
Andy was willing to spend $60,000,000.00 for one election, and yet he is throwing pennies at us.
We need to ask the organizers to post a hourly and daily totals of the collection efforts.
we are under heavy attack by the propaganda machines. i have heard everything from soros is funding this movement to help install a one world government to they are wanting marshall law so obama will stay president. i read a bunch of demands that was from this movement that really aint from this movement.also check this out http://weaselzippers.us/2011/10/03/soros-funded-puppets-moveon-org-joins-occupy-wall-street-protest/#comment-334798 watch out for perpetrators tring to make this movement into a battle. with love and support from georgia thanks
It is martial law, not marshall, that was Matt Dillon on Gunsmoke.
And since the Marines did not arrive Thursday Night, or Friday, and not yet today, it is safe to say that the military will not act yet.
DHS may try to clamp down, all in the name of public saftey. Just keep your heads cool, and they can't touch you.
The 'leaders' of this movement are all from open society nonprofits funded by Soros.
This site is owned by an Australian registered company called fabulious.com based in Queensland Australia. It is a spam site and is in no way a politcal party unless you vote SPAM.
but it looks so cool. We need to denounce that website further...unfortunately the Media is surely going to play that website as representing the movement in their attempt to discredit the protests.
I share your concern - but the site doesn't invite or have options to contact anyone so maybe it can't achieve much. It's sure to get lots of hits (a friend of mine thinks it's a 'pay per ad click' site.)
Why does it feel like politicians are trying to catalog us and compartmentalize us by doing this?
Because they are doing just that! It's part of human cognitive function to 'compartmentalize and catalog', so that's one reason. Another is that everyone is so accustomed to existing compartments, they are uncomfortable with something that 'seems very similar' but that 'doesn't fit'. IF Occupy sticks to its principles during the time it takes to get newcomers actively involved, some kinds of formalized statements will emerge (is my thinking) and will serve the next phase. A lot of people have to adjust to the 'radical' condition of a large group committed to a full range of changes that insists on remaining 'leaderless'. (The American/Canadian Agricultural Movement of the ... early 1980's I think it was ... behaved similarly.)
Yup, I was just gonna say--Tea Party site! Prolly paid for by Koch, too (notice the PBS ad?)
there are lots of ways to see. this site has nothing to do with the occupytogether movement. 1. It allows no comments. Same top-down crap.
I won't assume who made this website. We don't need a political party. Show how the unity between everyone on the streets is powerful enough to make a point. Politics shouldn't be part of this society anymore. We need people that will drive to do what is needed for our country. A smart mind and the will to better;this is what should be most important. "It's not what your country will do for you, it is how to step up as a leader to better your country."
This movement needs to occupy 1 single idea for people to understand. We want jobs. They shouldn't give them to us but they should be made available for us to find. We want to manufacturer our own products here in the United States. We don't need someone to hand us the materials but we need to be able to compete with all other nations in this world on an even scale.
We are the 99%. We are the future.
This movement needs to get better organized if not it will die off. Which is exactly what "they" all want. Remember not structure can stand up for long without a proper foundation. I know people don't want "celebrity" faces as leaders. This movement needs designated spokespeople to be front of the media with all of us behind them. These spokespeople are not leaders but rather the center point of all our voices. This really needs to get things in order or it will just be a flash in the pan.
"Remember not structure can stand up for long without a proper foundation"
I assume you meant "no structure". But maybe solids are not the model to emulate. How about liquids?
We discovered this parasite group when a local news team (FOX5) covered our group and they actually showed the address "occupylasvegas.com" (note the .com extension) being typed into the browser address bar. They didn't say our REAL URL, which of course is ".org". I wrote a little article about it here: http://www.occupylasvegas.org/content/occupylasvegascom-scam-spam-or-subterfuge
We at OLV would be very interested in learning anything anyone else discovers about this fake group. We are still trying to decide if it's a railroad job or just a sleazy marketing thing.
Have you seen the Rand Paul banner ads on those .com sites? They alternate with a banner for soap coupons. Earlier in the day the occupymissouri.com site had links at the bottom for what looked like clone sites for all 50 states. I didn't count them so don't know for sure. They're gone now. Knowing OWS is not supporting any candidates, it was the RP banner that made me suspicious at first, The soap ads were the real clincher, along with the copyright notice, When I saw one for West Plains, MO, I really got to wondering. Southwest Missouri is Tea Party country with a capital TP. I'm sure glad I got some screenshots, otherwise I don't think anybody would believe me. They know what buttons to push to get the wingnuts going, probably because it's wingnuts behind the faux sites. OccupyLasVegas says, "We at OLV would be very interested in learning anything anyone else discovers about this fake group. We are still trying to decide if it's a railroad job or just a sleazy marketing thing." My guess is it's both, When all the links were at the bottom of the clone pages, I spot-checked checked the whois on several of them and they all used the same domain service company out of Australia and except for the names of the states, every site was the same. It was pretty obvious they all came from the same cookie-cutter. All were registered on October 2, and every whois said "Fortitude Valley QLD 4006 AU" (Queensland, Australia). DItto with the occupyparty site. If I find anything else interesting, I'll post it after I've had a chance to sort through all the stuff I downloaded. I already posted several screenshots on Facebook and will upload to my website later so I can link to them. At first I thought I was hallucinating or something when I saw that Rand Paul Banner. But thanks to the Windows 7 snipping tool I captured Rand from occupytennessee.com. Another funny thing is that the names I checked the whois on all seemed to have the .org TLD available. If I were them that;s what I'd prefer. Gotta go now. I think I'll look at that picture off those smiling clowns waving their little American flags on the occupyparty site and have another good laugh. My caption on one FB post was, "Please sir, may we have some more Thorazine?" (Although to me, it looked like they'd already had more than enough.)
I think this site is a Scam. That is what I think! Occupyparty.org I am talking about.
Apparently it's the same picture used in the fake Newt Gingrich supporters ad? http://maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/10/07/8208723-fake-newt-gingrich-admirers-now-fake-wall-street-occupiers The background pic is the same. The site is registered with a PO box from Brisbane, Australia.
This country will not see democracy until politicians are being bought. Here is something to think about to establish a democratic process:
First of all: Make lobbying illegal. Lobbying is nothing but bribery and should have no place in politics.
Second: A corporation is a corporation, NOT a person.
Third: Each political party gets a defined budget for campaigning. The budget is the same, no matter how big the party. This budget is to be made public and all expenses need to be made public. The people have a right to know how this budget is used.
Fourth: Every political party gets the same amount of media coverage (debates, interviews...)
Fifths:
There need to be more than 2 parties and no party should be allowed to rule alone in a super majority. There should be coalitions and compositions, based on political consent.
Sixth: For the duration of you holding your elected office, you can not have additional income. There will be a defined income, based on your political office and whatever you earn more, has to be donated. As politician, you have to serve your people. If you only want to make money, stay in the private sector.
With this, you can ensure that our government focuses more on topics at hand and works for the people. Every vote needs to have the same weight again. Get money out of politics and democracy will unfold. Politicians will be voted based on their actions and being held accountable. this is what this country needs...
Beautifully said. Corporations are businesses and should have little say over laws that are there to protect the majority of PEOPLE. Lobbying should be illegal.
A whois search of occupyparty.org (registered October 2, 2011) leads to http://www.whoisprivacyservices.com.au/ (Why Australia? Could it be... Rupert Murdoch? I notice occupywallst.org uses a United States domain privacy service.)
Why so much emphasis on the wikileaks truck in their video? It seems they could be trying to create the impression that wikileaks is really behind the whole movement, in order to alienate the more politically conservative OWS supporters? And why is thestruggle.org (the site they link to) all about the Middle East and so anti-Israel? That isn't what the Occupy Wall Street movement is all about. Anti-Semitism seems to be implied in order to alienate the many Jewish OWS supporters. The name thestruggle.org could also impy a connection with radical Islam. After all, one of the main definitions of "Jihad" is "struggle". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad
http://www.networksolutions.com/whois-search/thestruggle.org (That domain privacy service is out of Scottsdale, AZ) https://www.domainsbyproxy.com/Default.aspx
More on domainsbyproxy.com from cnet:
http://news.cnet.com/Private-domains-not-so-private/2100-1038_3-
5833663.html
Just sayin'....
oldlefty66 thou hast dodged both my questions (below, at http://occupywallst.org/article/site-has-nothing-do-us/#comment-37755 ). In regard to the expression you used, "anti-Israel" (readers can compare this term to anti-American, anti-soviet):
If I, Renard, oppose the continued US transfer of wealth to the apartheid military effort directed from Tel Aviv, does that make me "anti-Israel" according to how you understand and use the term?
Where do you, oldlefty66, stand, assuming you hold US citizenship, on a question of whether the US should continue to transfer wealth in favor of said military apartheid effort directed from Tel Aviv?
I must confess I don't know enough about the current government of Israel to offer a truly educated opinion. But from what I gather, they're sort of what I'd call "Bushy" at the present time. Israel has hawks and doves just like we do and I think the hawks are in charge now. The Jerusalem Post has been reading way too much like Fox News for me lately. I don't know what kind of wealth we're transferring to who over there, but considering the way some governments we've supported in the past act, nothing would surprise me. But that doesn't necessarily mean I'm for it. Old Testament prophets like Jeremiah really gave Israel hell about their greed and corruption and I don't think they were anti-Israel any more than the OWS movement is anti-American for caring enough about their country to try and do something about it. The trouble is when we think of ourselves or any other nation as "my country, right or wrong" That's when nationalism bites us in the ass. You ought to read the book of Jeremiah sometime, you'd probably agree with him. I do.
What you mean "anti-Israel"? If I oppose continued US material support for the Ziohazard regime, does that make me anti-Israel? Where do you stand on it?
I'm not anti-Israel or anti-Palestine. They're going to have to work something out. From what I've heard, the present government in Israel does seem a bit "Bushy", for want of a better word. I think a lot of Israelis feel that way too. It just seems that some would seek to paint the OWS movement as anti-Israel to try and "divide and conquer". That TheStruggle.org site that the fake occupyparty site linked to did seem to be "anti-Israel" to me. Like it was designed to play on the Islamophobia that's so prevalent in conservative and Tea Party circles. OWS is attracting a lot of people I never thought I'd see out protesting and I'm glad to see it. Young and old are uniting in common cause and I think that's a good thing. I just don't want to see anybody screw it up. Even those faux websites have a point in their use of "We're mad as hell and we're not gonna take it any more". It's about time!
This is a site intended to make some ad revenue off of the popularity of the Occupy Wall Street movement.
turning this movement into a political party, left, right, or our own, is like protesting mcdonalds by opening up a burger king
Watching with bated breath from the UK! Keep it rolling and let it roll over the Atlantic. God Bless you all!! Keep safe!!
Watching with bated breath from the UK! Keep it rolling and let it roll over the Atlantic. God Bless you all!! Keep safe!!
1) Congressional term limits – 3 terms Congressman – 2 terms Senator – maximum of 26 years combined federal service Congressional and Executive Branch – professional politicians only care about their re-elections, lets take away the “I must keep my job” so that the minority cannot take away the voice of the majority
2) Reduce rules and regulations where it makes sense to accelerate commerce and stimulate jobs. We have too many rules created by too many special interests that benefit only a few – e.g. it should not take years and hundreds of thousands of dollars to build a back country outhouse in a national forest; but it does due to rules.
3) Our healthcare system is completely broken. Period. Over 17% of our GDP goes to healthcare every single year, the highest percentage of GDP in the world. The average citizen pays/costs the health care system costs over $8,000 a year. Despite this, over 50 million Americans have no health insurance coverage. Amazingly, 60 % to 65% of the current spending for healthcare comes from the federal government from Medicare, Medicaid, TriCare, and Veterans Administration. We already have government provided healthcare – we cannot let fear stop this. No one in 21st century America should have to decide on medication or food, which finger to reattach after an injury, or die from a toothache. And that includes our retirees and our veterans; especially our veterans, who are volunteer citizen soldiers of which we have a Patriotic duty to support.
4) End corporate “private citizen” protection. Corporations have hidden behind this protection to break laws, abuse consumers, other business, and government alike, and throw mountains of special interest dollars at legislators at every level. We are a nation of the corporations, by the corporations, for the corporate directors.
5) We must have massive campaign finance reform. We must take special interest, lobby, and PAC money out of elections and legislation at every level. We must not have any loopholes that allow charitable corporations, PAC, or shadow organizations to provide massive funding for pet projects that mostly benefit a small group, typically within a single corporation.
6) We need a comprehensive energy and transportation policy in this country utilizing both existing and future green technologies hand-in-hand. Our cities are blessed with sidewalks, roads, buses, subways and trains, but unreasonable fuel economy policies and green initiatives are squeezing those who live in rural areas, including those we depend on like farmers, with unrealistic expectations and expenses. A family farmer can barely compete today, add on the expense of manufactured congestion, manipulated fuel prices, and arbitrary CAFÉ standards, it only applies more pressure – no one is going to haul their tomatoes to market via a bicycle – and taking a Greyhound bus isn’t practical. We need a real policy for energy and transit that everyone can live with. Where cities can enjoy clean, modern efficient transit and commerce while reducing traffic – but not at the expense of one of our greatest gifts. The ease of mobility from point A to point B free of any restrictions.
Our tax structure is completely broken. The bloated, outdated IRS has massive administrative costs. The average citizen should not have to hire an accountant, consultant, or buy specialized software to prepare their annual tax return to assure they make no errors, and get the maximum benefit. The current overly complicated tax code, like so many other things in our government is riddled with perks and benefits for special interests, corporations and provides government interfere and influence into the free market economy. There should be a four tier tax system, and every citizen, regardless of income should make SOME contribution. No corporation, large or small, that makes a profit based on income generated in the United States, its territories, or its government branches, including overseas military operations and bases, should be exempt from paying taxes. There should not be any loopholes that any creative accountant, no matter how brilliant, can formulate to shelter corporations from their fair contribution to the well being of this nation.
Most of these ideas are excellent. I would support most of them, especially TERM LIMITS! Why should the president have a term limit but not Congress or the Senate?? Seems insane
Looks like divide-and-conquer disinformation to me. And that picture looks straight out of the Tea Party! Or the Mormon church.
A whois search of occupyparty.org (registered October 2, 2011) leads to http://www.whoisprivacyservices.com.au/ (Why Australia? Can you say Rupert Murdoch? I notice at least occupywallst.org uses a United States domain privacy service.)
And why so much emphasis on the wikileaks truck in the video? It seems they could be trying to imply that wikileaks is really behind the whole OWS movement, in order to alienate the more politically conservative occupywallst supporters? And why is thestruggle.org (the site they link to) all about the Middle East and so vitriolically anti-Israel? That isn't what the Occupy Wall Street movement is all about. It's Wall Street, folks! Also, Anti-Semitism seems to be implied in order to alienate the many Jewish OWS supporters. The name thestruggle.org also implies a connection with radical Islam. After all, one of the main definitions of "Jihad" is "struggle". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad http://www.networksolutions.com/whois-search/thestruggle.org (That domain privacy service is out of Scottsdale, AZ) https://www.domainsbyproxy.com/Default.aspx
Not so private, huh? More on domainsbyproxy.com from cnet: http://news.cnet.com/Private-domains-not-so-private/2100-1038_3-5833663.html
Just sayin'....
http://www.networksolutions.com/whois/registry-data.jsp?domain=occupyparty.org
Registered by someone from QUEENSLAND AUSTRALIA. I'd say it's someone trying to make some cash and end up pulling the OWS group down Tea Party lane.
exactly. look at all of those ads.
Maybe I'm a dummy, but the headline "this site has nothing to do with us" kept making me think that occupywallst.org was the site that had nothing to do with us and was asking readers to go to occupyparty.org.
Perhaps this is nitpicky, but perhaps the mods could change the title to "Occupyparty.org has nothing to do with us"
couldn't figure out why you were promoting that crap website. :-\
I don't think they were promoting it. Just showing people what to watch out for. If you want to warn somebody what a wolf in sheep's clothing looks like, it's best if you can just show them one. The Rand Paul ads on the sites I saw were very anti-union, and linked to a right-to-work site. With so many unions supporting OWS, that would seem the last thing a real OWS site would do. It's just a false-flag operation by the far right in my opinion, Probably the Tea Party.
Monitors there are a lot of comments posted with unwanted sites. Please remove these comments that have these misleading sites posted. Thank you .
Not to promote any political ideals or party on a site who's message is a mixture of political views, and is not a political institution as noted. Unlike the "Occupy Party" which appears to have links, political message, or goals, Citizens Party (http://www.votecitizens.org/) is a small 3rd party with liberal, conservative, and moderate views. Perhaps most important is the elimination of PACs and lobbyist influence. I have just recently discovered this party, and have no association with them. I just believe their goals echo the voices of protesters, and may be a party that people can begin to rally behind to cause real change.
I have seen an ad very similar to one of the Republican Candidates website when he announced...except the photo had a picture of himself and his wife in that same photo! Occupyparty.org just does appear to be connected to a movement like Occupy Wall Street...seems to have more of a Tea Party feel to the website! Hope someone finds out who is behind that website!
The problem is all of you ... reading this. Every person who voted DEMOCRAT or REPUBLICAN - STOP! You will never solve our country's problem until you EXTERMINATE the DUOPOLY that has taken control of our country. It is the same idea as an alliance on the TV show Survivor. Our founding fathers did not intend for this to happen and it is WRONG. Stop voting Democrat and Republican for your own special interests. We don't have a democracy until you have a congress and senate full of independant thinkers.
The problem is the money in politics not the parties.
So....your suggestion is to get rid of money? I don't see how that is possible. Money is a necessary medium of exchange. And it still would not solve the problem of two parties taking control of a political system.
Don't be dense. Its money's influence in politics.
Please read this warning.
http://www.reddit.com/r/occupywallstreet/comments/kyjo2/an_open_letter_and_warning_from_a_former_tea/
BOTH parties HATE Ron Paul because he wants to do away with their corrupt system...that's why he doesn't get the respect he deserves from the PRESS. But, it's our time and his time, GO RON PAUL!!!
Ron Paul has been saying get rid of the FED for years, it's time to let him do it!!!
I've been warning about this for a week now--and trying to deal with right-ist co-opters in the Forum: it's like Whack-a-Mole, only with ad hominem attacks and less intelligent discourse.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/u-defective-bro-heres-what-a-leading-candidate-of-/#comment-23018
But I'll keep on going, just as the brave and increasingly cold #OWS activists will.
Peace.
Groobiecat www.groobiecat.blogspot.com/2011/10/tea-party-vs-occupywallstreet-party.html
there's always someone trying to make a buck.
they have an ad for bank of america in the top right hand corner. talk about irony...
What NOT to do: http://daisysdeadair.blogspot.com/2011/10/quick-note-to-occupiers-what-not-to-do.html
My kisses and hugs to you all!!!! xoxoxoxo
Greetings from germany "Get up stand up....", all over the world, it`s time to unite..... Raszappa
Occupy WallStreet are doing a great work and billions of people support you and depend on your success. Do not give up and you will win.
However I think that only demonstrations and protests will not solve our problems and our big disaster. You need all to be organized in one party who will be ready to lead the world to change our criminal system/s to the only legal and correct system. A system based on our true human rights and our human values including justice, caring and love, because without these there is no system and no solution.
We are now not only wasting 95% of our precious resources but we are salves of crime and a criminal system that is killing slowly but surely our earth and all of us with it. A system that kills billions of people is nothing but criminal and we should not support it or even accept it.
We tried all kind of systems from extreme right to extreme left and the result is a bankrupt world, a dying earth and billions of victims all around us. Money and the system were always more important than the human and his earth. Accepting this is stupidity and a crime and is exactly the problem.
Our votes, taxes, work and even silence are empowering an evil system that makes money more important than us; this is stupidity, incitement to crime , slavery and huge crime; "our" system is exploiting and killing us and our earth. Your vote and money are killing people through injustice : dehumanization, unlimited greed, unemployment, bankruptcy, poverty, hunger, incitement to crime, a gambling economy, the gambling industry, ruthless and unnecessary competition, insecurity, depression, discrimination, pollution, wastage of resources, occupations, wars, terrorism and all the illnesses and pollution that come with all these crimes.
Injustice and poverty force the people, including children, to a life of deprivation or crime and in both cases this a big crime against all of us. Injustice gives us only crimes, wars and terrorism. We and our governments know and agree on the correct system for us. We all brag about goodness and how good we are. We all say that we love our country, all the people and our earth. We all are prepared to give our life for our country and for the good things we believe in. Our governments claim that our system is caring with all our human rights are respected. It seems we all say that our system is a system of love, caring, justice and goodness yet we all instead are doing the opposite; we worship money and we are its slaves and the slaves of all its crimes; our work and power are continuously hurting the humans and our earth.
The only logical system that works is as simple as to work as little as possible so that we can enjoy the world. This means to cooperate (not compete) to produce in the most efficient way and the best quality only the things that we need with a lot of food armed with, love, full employment and the latest technologies including robots. We can easily use robots to do most of our work so that we have time to enjoy our lives
This means to be extremely rich and happy on a peaceful and healthy earth where pain, fear and suffering are things of the past; together we can do it now. We have all the intelligence, resources and power needed to do this; our mother earth is abundantly rich; we only lack the necessary wisdom & the political will.
This is not a dream, utopia or only a theory that has no practical application. Theory and practice are one integrated process. Without the right theory you can never build a machine, let alone a system that runs and protects our world and the precious life in it. The choice is between life and crime and we cannot choose crime because our governments tell us it is practical.
Im a graphic designer and just made these satire wall street images, just thought you might wanna use them.
http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsnl13Nmql1qldsiio1_r2_250.jpg
http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsnl5cLD6z1qlduvho1_r1_250.jpg
Haha so pathetic. I made this image http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsnl13Nmql1qldsiio1_r2_250.jpg
Haha so pathetic. I made this image http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsnl13Nmql1qldsiio1_r2_250.jpg
I wrote this in another forum so I decided to make my own, I jsut copied and pasted.
People know that corporations have done many corrupt and disgusting things but they only exist because of the government. If this were a true free market there would be no monopolies, monopolies only exist because of the state, because the state is the one with the guns and therefore can enforce things. Many protesters attack corporations but corporations are only a symptom, an effect of a bigger, more powerful problem, the state. Attacking corporations is like attacking the head of a Hydra, a new one will just grow in its place. In order to take down this beast we need to attack it at its core, which is the state. I stumbled upon a really good video that addresses these protests. please do share it and remember asking the government for more regulations and power is music to their ears. I will try to post this in other forums but I can't do it alone, and btw this isn't my video I just found it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTx6t3FUSkM&feature=share
averagejoe,
I respectfully disagree with you. I actually took a half hour out of a very busy evening to watch this video.
I don't know who this guy stefbot is but I find it ironic that he portrays himself as a philosopher when his argument is so blatantly fallacious. Specifically it is a fallacy known as "Ignoratio elenchi" (also known as irrelevant conclusion).
His argument that the state is inherently evil is irrelevant to the assertion that the corruption of our politics and government by the corporations is evil, wrong inappropriate (use your favorite negative adjective).
Normally I wouldn't take the time to comment but for the fact that these types of things are diverting. We need to stay focused on the idea that we will no longer tolerate the corruption of our politics and government by the corporations.
We can discuss these other issues in a different time and in a different forum. Right now we need to stay focused and our focus should be:
"WE WILL NO LONGER TOLERATE THE CORRUPTION OF OUR POLITICS AND GOVERNMENT BY THE CORPORATIONS!".
We need to keep this focus the time and circumstances for addressing this is right now and right here.
please if you have any questions or want me to specify please do ask this is my forum http://occupywallst.org/forum/corporations-are-not-the-main-problem-they-are-onl/#comment-25761
Wealth in politics is the problem. You are trying to determine if the chicken or the egg came first. They are both part of the same thing, both are the problem.
Its money in politics.
I knew I had seen that picture before; it's a stock photo that has been used by Newt Gingrich and "The Democratic Majority", or as I call them both, Uniparty Incorporated.
Here is the picture, http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/03/03/148395/newt-gingrich-stock-campaign/
I figured they'd try to hijack this movement and tie it to the Uniparty Inc so I'm not surprised. We just have to keep hammering the Truth so People will not get confused.
Peace!
Say NO to Corporate America http://saynotocorporateamerica.blogspot.com/
eeeek! it takes 2 seconds to see that the occupyparty site is a little confused. it almost hurts to look at it. take that back, it HURTS to look at it.
also, i hear a lot of talk re: moveon. moveon may have a bit of an agenda, but i think most of the intentions have been good and they have helped to shed light on a lot of good points and unified some good people; a good starting place. of course we always want to seek many good sources of diverse information to come to an educated decision :) i started to distance myself (from moveon) once i had witnessed the cairo uprising (and was certain someone from moveon must have), felt the obvious connection and unity of us all, but found moveon talking "american" dream. i thought, how arrogant and small minded. the issue is obviously so much bigger than just america. anyway, the stereotypical american dream concept is very outdated and in need of second look imo. also, i don't think anyone owes anyone a job. it is up to us to create our work and do so in new ways. this challenge will help create our new way of living and give us real freedom.
i was looking for a movement that was more inclusive, progressive and global and THANK THE PEOPLE, i think it has arrived! Power to the Peaceful xxoo
Just like Daily Kos, Moveon is pro-democrat and thus suspect. If you want change you need to focus on the problem, not push a party to fix it for you.
To end the two party system, elect someone who offends both parties. (ron.) (paul.)
I'd only elect Ron Paul if he shared power with Dennis Kucinich, Bernie Sanders, and Ralph Nader.
Paul has Nader's endorsement, and a vote for Paul would give more power to all dissenters.
Thats fine. But I would never elect Ron Paul wihtout the balance of some of thsoe others who are of equal value in today's government. Each of those men are those that actually stand up for the public good. They are the few. It is unfortuante that you've got so few of those voices on the right. But Ron Paul is one of them.
thanks...but no thanks.
Who else is there? Obama's been bought by Goldman Sachs and the union leadership, and the rest of the Republicans appear to be bought as well. It comes to this: The insiders have been bought, the outsiders haven't. Ron Paul is, in this sense, an outsider.
Electing Paul = end the wars, end the bailouts.
I love the general impulse behind #occupywallstreet, but I'll be disappointed if the protestors overlook just how much Obama has been auctioned off to the big companies.
Reverting our political system to something as hands off as and laissez-faire as Paul dreams about would have the effect of creating a society with similar dynamics to that of Somalia or Afghanistan. The only two nations on earth with that degree of "limited" government power . Libertarianism is a nice dream, but it's pure idealism.
Ron Paul wouldn't have power to create a purely hands-off government. He would end the wars, veto any bailouts, and limit executive power to what is outlined in the Constitution.
And Paul's libertarianism is a far cry from Somalia or Afghanistan since he recognizes that we need government-enforced contracts, even at the federal level. There wouldn't be lawlessness, there just would be no wars or bailouts or corporatism. He'd give no favors to any corporations, and that's why major corporations don't lobby him for perks.
(I admit, though, I personally wish Paul would publicly endorse reinstating Glass-Steagall.)
"There are far more interest groups lobbying in Washington for special benefits and privileges than most Americans can imagine. I do not oppose just this one or that one. I oppose the whole apparatus, the whole immoral system by which we use government to exploit our fellow citizens on behalf of our own interests. For someone like me to win, there would have to be enough Americans who believed in freedom to be able to offset the combined power of interest groups that have grown accustomed to treating the people as a resource to be drained for private gain." - Ron Paul, The Revolution
can anonymous take this site down, please?
The saddest thing about that site are the ads on it. Merrill Edge Investing? Really?
Put OccupyWallstreet.org as a fav and will not be rediredted to another site. We The People will not have phonies dismantle US.
So are you guys for communism? I'm confused about how we want everyone to be middle class and be well off, but not in the communist way? I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure that system has failed EVERYWHERE it was tried.
you're right, you are no expert.
there are numerous societies the world over with extensive middle classes that the society as a whole - government, private sector and NGO non-profit institutions - actively participate in. An incomplete list:
Canada Australia United Kingdom Ireland The Netherlands Germany Denmark Sweden Norway Finland Austria Switzerland Italy Spain France Portugal Japan South Korea Taiwan
These countries have diverse political systems and cultural backgrounds. None of them are perfect by any means, but they do share a commitment on the part of the society at large to do things that benefit the society at large - not just the wealthiest 1%.
My name is Peggy and I think this site should be about things to do around wall st. I get really bored downtown and I can't find a website about the financial district.
Here is a suggestion: Fight for your rights.
people cooperating with each other to achieve a goal is a political institution
I agree with the overall message 100% but stay peaceful, stop pushing to legalize drugs (never gonna happen) and get some intellectuals in there- not politicians- great, inspirational speakers with some real views (not left or right- just smart!)... I am WITH you guys but remember to protest, not just to occupy! I'm there!
I thought there was no "you" though. That "you" were "us" and "we" are all part of the 99%. So if some other part of that 300+ Million people decides to do something political, isn't that part of "us", "we" and by extension "you" too?
My point is this lack of identity thing only goes so far. I get it. Keep riding it as long as you can. But at some point someone's going to have to transition "you" (whatever that is) into something more tangible, conceptually speaking. Something where we're not tripping over our pronouns and second guessing one another to define.
I am so glad that you guys are actively refuting the fake stuff that as it comes up.
Anon should kill this site
A revolution can be neither made nor stopped. The only thing that can be done is for one of several of its children to give it a direction by dint of victories. - Napoleon Bonaparte
Suggest you use picket signs that also ask: How many "golden parachuets" and special bonuses are still being handed out to heads of wall street corporations? How many jobs have been lost as a "direct" result of golden parachute bonuses? How many corporate heads and relatives are taking advantage of Social Security and Medicare? If corporations are now considered "people" shouldn't they be taxed accordingly? How many corporate heads really pay any taxes after all deductions have been taken?
Suggest you use picket signs that also ask: How many "golden parachuets" and special bonuses are still being handed out to heads of wall street corporations? How many jobs have been lost as a "direct" result of golden parachute bonuses? How many corporate heads and relatives are taking advantage of Social Security and Medicare? If corporations are now considered "people" shouldn't they be taxed accordingly? How many corporate heads really pay any taxes aften all deductions have been taken?
Suggest you use picket signs that also ask: How many "golden parachuets" and special bonuses are still being handed out to heads of wall street corporations? How many jobs have been lost as a "direct" result of golden parachute bonuses? How many corporate heads and relatives are taking advantage of Social Security and Medicare? If corporations are now considered "people" shouldn't they be taxed accordingly? How many corporate heads really pay any taxes aften all deductions have been taken?
F** Off, Judean peoples front, we're the peoples front of Judea!
Looking forward to being down there this weekend! excited and feel hope for the first time...in a long time. Thanks Luvies.
I'm a banker and I support OWS.
99% = TBTF Freedomny
Looking forward to being down there this weekend! excited and feel hope for the first time...in a long time. Thanks Luvies.
I'm a banker and I support OWS.
99% = TBTF Freedomny
phukkk you libturds i pray for your death
It is true that greed has infected the USA and that the rich keep getting richer. It is also true that many people are currently experiencing hardships because they thought they were entitled to things they could not afford. People have grown cold, bitter and angry because things didn't turn out the way that they wanted and now they want to blame someone. Now it seems that everyone is in this mess for the long haul and if we don't do anything about the greed that is infecting our communities then nothing will ever change.
over 5 thousand people showed up at occupy portland protests!!!! http://theintelhub.com/2011/10/06/over-5000-turn-out-in-portland-for-occupy-portland-protest/
Yeah this site is trying to come up off this movement.... Here is a site i found that claims no affiliation with you guys but reaches millions and clearly supports you! http://theintelhub.com
I did a whois of occupyparty.org... They're registered in Australia. News Corp conspiracy, anyone?
My name is David j. Tatum I wish to see, us come together in this movement, with a clear message of the 99% can be defined, Jobs, better education, government Etc . There must be a clear goal, and a vision, I believe people are ready, but they need to understand and be understood in the movement. http://www.facebook.com/david.j.tatum#!/groups/199769420061812/
I agree. We need a clearer purpose. This movement has united so many different segments of our society. Let's use that unity to create real change, not simply awareness. We need finite goals and a clear plan.
Eradicating Political Polarity http://detters2cents.wordpress.com/2011/10/03/eradicating-political-polarity/
Thanks for jumping on that.
Leaderless, horizontal, consensus ruled, hehe, wait can consensus rule, probably not, how about- shaped by consensus, stay the course-we will prevail against this corporate takeover crushing so many lives, and the planet upon which all life relies. Peace (is)
You might want to check google images, photographs also rerouting to other sites as well.
I tried to login a couple days ago and was redirected to another site? This went on for at least thirty min. Thanks for the info... was wondering what, what.
Put this site as a fav...and you dont have to be redirected to another site.
That is where I had/have link to here and I was ambushed and sent to another site from my fav. Thanks anyways.
http://imgur.com/ebZGX
Lol for reals they think thats how you guys roll
Need to add the rel=nofollow to the link on this site so they won't get a vote form google and show up higher in search results than the real site.
That's a good point you have there, Bruce. And we should all do what we can to spread the word to distrust the .com TLD when it comes to "occupy" sites. After all, wasn't .com supposed to be short for "commercial" anyway? When I was checking whois, the .org name was always available. Which is supposed to mean "organization" (as in non-profit?) These sites are really heavy on the advertising now, Much more so than earlier today. And still Rand Paul is by far the most frequent banner that pops up.
occupyparty(dot)org is an ad-front
Occupy Wall Street is NOT affiliated with Unions, MoveOn, or ANY Dems or Repubs… http://tl.gd/dg872d
what the bloody fuck is that
That Banner/Picture makes me want to vomit...
I need programmers, software developers, website designers to join me! I will offer an ownership position to the right technicians and let. Won't you help me help you?
Richard Peter goldmoneyparty.com Owner Domain Name: egovern.us
The leaders in our movement need to set forth a platform of specific proposals and remedy to the sickness in our Nation. I have proposed at goldmoneyparty.com a set of specific ideas, BUT, ironically, I am not writing this to you to endorse goldmoneyparty.com
My vision is far greater.
I own the domain name: egovern.us.
I am currently looking for programmers to set up a Facebook like platform, only political in nature.
We vote up or down on the leaders in our movement when we see their specific ideas
Then, the winner gets the endorsement in his or her State, and we use the "write in" campaign method(legal in all 50 states) to force their name on the ballot!
There is so much more I want to say, but I need to speak to the leadership. My private number is 469-569-8209.
I am currently looking for programmers to design egovern.us. I need your help. Our voice must be matched by our write in votes!
The Republicans and Democrats consented to our destruction when they gave our currency to the banking cartels and make us a nation of slaves!
Let's use the write in and the internet to take our Nation back!
It can all be done on the internet. Just like electing the winner of American Idol!
We can seize power with our computers, our i phones, our laptops.
Let me show you show
Richard Peter goldmoneyparty.com Owner of the domain: egovern.us
Richard Peter Founder
Occupy Wall Street is NOT affiliated with Unions, MoveOn, or ANY Dems or Repubs… http://tl.gd/dg872d
2 ads: one for ain indoor air purifier, and a want to become a police officer??? wow they have the demographic pegged!!
Whoever created that site has no clue!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Starfish_and_the_Spider
Ok. But what do you guys want? You're protesting against corporate influence in elections? Cool. I'm with you. You're protesting for a unified and more prosperous nation? Awesome. I like that. You're protesting the terrible fact that 1% of the population seems to be leading our country to terrible directions against the will of the 99%. Great! But this is like basically asking "Who likes cookies?" No shit people like cookies, but what do you want from the 1%? What do you want to happen in this country? The 99% marching with unions and the socialist parties of America sort of makes me uneasy, even if I agree on some level the injustice these institutions talk about. However, protesting these very basic facts seems counterproductive. It's like holding a rally for people who like cookies. Tell me what you want!
Occupy Wall Street is NOT affiliated with Unions, MoveOn, or ANY Dems or Repubs… http://tl.gd/dg872d
Ok. I see that this Rob Miller guy (as you posted a link to his Twitter account) is now the official spokesperson for OccupyWallSt? Just because Rob Miller says there is no political affiliation involved doesn't mean there isn't... there very well could be among the masses of the 99%.
If this movement wants to continue with a truly non-partisan agenda and insist that it is a grassroots movement, the only argument it can make is that the 99% are being led afoul by the 1% controlling our country and this to me is just like starting a rally for people who like cookies. Most people will agree with the fact that cookies are great, but you're not really accomplishing anything. Why would a level-headed non-partisan individual like me join a movement who's only statement is that our country is messed up? No shit it's messed up. I'm not coming together with just anyone based on that premise. I agree that if it is indeed non-partisan, it should continue the marches with the unions and the socialist parties and this in no way indicates affiliation, just common ground... but it should also march with the other side of the argument, ie; the Alex Jone's folks' and the Paulites (which I'm sure it's done a fine job of so far) but this doesn't accomplish anything, because both sides have totally different methods to achieve their goals. I know I'm pounding away with this analogy, but this thing is equivalent to a rally for people who like cookies... It's meaningless.
Why don't you do research of articles, analysis, and polls to find an initial actionable demand or set of demands that are actually agreed upon by perhaps not 99% of the country, but 70-80%...
I am working on this research right now, feel free to help out and post your findings.
They don't know what they want. They are kids, immature adults and leftist who dare not say what they really want. It's that last group that tends to be dangerous.
I may agree with you that these people don't know what they want, but I'm not ready to call them "immature leftists". The people have a legitimate complaint that their hard earned money has went to fund Wall St., while Main St. has gone mostly neglected. The 1% control of DC is a problem without a doubt, it's just the solutions being proposed to fix the problem where the divisiveness comes into play. To me, having a protest that 1% of the population controls the direction of the rest of the country is redundant, as everyone knows this and I doubt most people will argue. The problem comes into play when you talk about ways to fix the problems. Like I said, it's like holding a rally for people who like cookies.
Say it to Obama:
RE-ACTIVATE EXECUTIVE-ORDER 11110
This would change everything.
No contact info. No real info at the site other than the fact it is a party.(not officially registered yet though no doubt).
no matter, you say trust
you guys need to be marching on washington and all the politicians who created all the laws, which created this entire mess we are in today...
does it take a kid to know what's up?!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To3PWDfZDac
We will be marching in D.C. this weekend.
I am a retire person that lives in Florida and I am with you. I worked for over 30 years in the insurance industry for a company who gave me a defined pension and match my 401k. That is why I can live comfortable today. Fight for these same conditions so you will be able to retire someday with dignity.
On a brighter note, here's someone who has a lot to do with us -- Jeffrey Sachs, who is taking on the 1%'s control over Congress-- he should be invited to speak at OWS --excellent interview on Charlie Rose last night:
http://vicewatch.tumblr.com/post/11109616725/video-a-politics-without-gimmicks-jeffrey
Sachs' ideas in the interview are interesting. He'd make a strange bedfellow with OWS, though.
Sachs is a strong supporter of, and a continued apologist for, neoliberal economic policy. As explained in Naomi Klein in The Shock Doctrine, Sachs brought free market "shock therapy" to Bolivia, Poland and Russia. You may recall that these policies enriched a few but impoverished the masses . . .
http://www.naomiklein.org/meet-naomi/interviews/red-pepper
Thanks--for the insight! It would be interesting to see them discuss his views together--that interview was done in 2007 -- like many economists, Sachs probably got shocked into sensibility himself after the meltdown. He was backing off the shock capitalism stuff earlier on (Russia being a big factor in his turnaround I'm sure--it was a bad kleptocracy before, but with rampant privatization, the gap between rich and poor has just exploded--we should get a clue from that fiasco). It sounds like he has changed his tune for good-he even speaks of the virtues of socialized Scandinavian countries.
This is a very clear attempt to compare this movement to the tea party. I suggest an email campaign to get this site shut down, or have some hacker friends bring it down. Furthermore there are distinctions that need to be made by you guys down on the front lines. The tea party would have less government intervention on the banks, which will only lead to another meltdown of 2008. (Deregulation lead to toxic loans, which is one of the main causes) It is my belief that we need to maintain that we want to make sure the financial system remains accountable for their greed and corruption. Banks need to be regulated, period.
Nah, just ignore it. It doesn't represent us. Anyone who thinks otherwise goes on the List o' Fools.
"deregulation lead to toxic loans"...you're kidding, right? If not, perhaps you should educate yourself before you expose your ignorance for all to see. Politicians are the things that needs to be regulated, not free people. In this country we call that regulation the US Constitution. If we stick to those principles we will continue to be the lone exception to ternary over liberty in the entire course of human events. Put aside your emoting and try, real hard, to think about these heady things. 99% -vs- 1%, Poor –vs- Rich, Union –vs- Corporations, RedSox –vs- Yankees. Those are the wrong battlefronts to wag a protest. Focus on the problem, its’ Ternary –vs- Liberty, Collectivism –vs- Individualism The 1% are not stopping you from your pursuit of happiness, nor does their success decrease your ability to attain that happiness…you are stopping yourself by becoming a victim of, and a pawn under, the boot of Ternary.
This is the exact same mentality: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfGLB8LO1aM
Obama money!!
Occupy Wall Street is NOT affiliated with Unions, MoveOn, or ANY Dems or Repubs… http://tl.gd/dg872d
I wonder how the Occu-pie tastes...
That site has to be a scam of some sort. You would have to be damn near brain dead not to notice the Madison Ave. pasty smiles of the actors in the photo.
I think this is a well-meaning effort to try and form another Tea Party. Bad idea right now.
Not even close! Too dressed up, dopey looking and what's with waving all those flags?
we must END THE FED...nothing changes, Republican or Democrat until we END THE FED
This will not work. This movement did not consider its image before starting their work. If they did consider their image...then they are going about it, in a very ineffective manner. The latest comment from the President...along with many others, has done so much to decrease the effect of what y'all are trying to achieve, it's sad to see it happen so quickly.
You've been relegated to being called socialists...and that will stop this from going forward to a great degree, as well as, keep you in the minority.
You do not want to be identified as socialists...but it's already occurred.
You folks need to do something about controlling your narrative.
You're making the marchers look like spoiled brats or miscreants with nothing to do.
THAT - was a dumb move.
You've lost the narrative.
That's your opinion. Personally I do not mind being called a socialist. There has never been a true socialist country. We have socialism for corporations and banks. We are the 99%. Do try to define us. This is an organic movement. Being people, we will make mistakes but this is the cleanest spontaneous grassroots event in a very long time. The global market forces machinery is about to collapse. What comes next we don't know. I have some ideas, but lets remember we are all in this together. We are the 99%.
Annonymous, take this shite down
That would just get them undue attention.
The company we work for have blocked Facebook and Twitter... We stand with you and they will not silence us...
According to IRS data, for a brief two years, I was in the top 1% of income earnings. I am currently in the top 3%. I'm interested in an honest, dispassionate, fact-based discussion with someone about what the heck your beefs are with people like me. I'd love to learn more about what solutions you envision. Perhaps some of you may learn a thing or two about people like me. Dare I say that some of the notions you hold about people like me are not true, or perhaps blanket generalizations about an infinitesimal (albeit powerful and corrupt) few? Let's chat.
Friend, comrade, we are NOT against the 1% as a people, we are against the 1% who use their MONEY to dictate PUBLIC LAWS. We have no trife with sensible gentlemen such as yourself who ASK to engage in engaging conversation, in FACT, most of us would WELCOME YOU BECAUSE WE WANT TO LEARN AND COME TOGETHER. Government laws should be made by the people, NOT BY THE PRIVATE INTERESTS OF BIG MONEY.
Well, we're on the same page so far. I don't think that I'm a threat to anyone. I've always thought that the collusion of big business and big government was an obstacle to freedom and pursuit of happiness.
I want to learn more about the specific changes that are being proposed. I have legitimate concerns about some of the "demands" that I'm seeing. Is there a spokesperson who can respond to questions about the group's platform or describe the rationale behind policy stances? If this organization does not exist, may I suggest implementing it?
You may certainly suggest implementing it. Many, many people have done so before you.
Yet everything that goes down at OccupyWallSt is the result of a democratic process, and political ideas such as platforms and policy have so far gained little traction over the movement as a whole.
You are welcome to find common ground with individuals within the protest yourself, however attempting to appeal to an authority within the group will meet with failure.
That's too bad. While I favor as little organization, leadership, and authority as necessary, I also favor as much of it as necessary. My personal opinion is that lack of any of it will not result in democracy but anarchy.
I find it odd that a movement that claims to speak on behalf of so many (99%) does so without a single unified voice. Thus the reason for me reaching out. As an outsider, it seems like a single source of noise, but it needs focus, unity, specificity, and moderation for me to really "get it". I think we share a lot of the same sentiments, but again I am a person that does not do things for the sake of doing them. I am about results, and if I don't see a net positive outcome likely, I'll probably sit on the sidelines.
Unity is noisy when there are many voices. If you are a 1% person, or even a 3% person, it is less likely you will hear many different voices with different ideas but what I believe you are really doing is trying to delegitimize the movement. What do you believe?
Just came back and saw your comment. Sorry I didn't have a chance to check back in, but thanks for the dialog.
The definition of the word "unity" is "the state of being one". "One" and "many" are antonyms. With that in mind, I'm having a hard time understanding what you mean. Either you all speak with one voice and, thus, have unity, or you speak with many voices and thus do not have unity.
I am of no danger to your movement. I only have the time to follow it here online. Only those involved with your movement can delegitimize it. However, if you're open to my humble advice, a good way to be legitimate is to avoid saying nonsensical things like "unity has many voices".
It is unified, but the thoughts and voices are not all the same. Is this not what democracy is? It makes perfect sense. I was at a meeting and not all of the voices were the same, yet all stood in unity. It is free thinking and true free expression. That can be noisy.
Democracy is rule by the many. But we don't have a democracy (and have never since our founding). We have a republic, which is rule by elected representatives. There are democratic elements of our system, such as the way representatives are elected.
I think the point with unity is that the voices don't have to be the same, but they have to be arriving at the same resolutions in order for there to be unity. If half thinks the right way forward is east but the other thinks it is west, that group will obviously not be unified for very long.
Why the logical contortions? Can't the movement just produce a manifesto or a policy platform or something so that the rest of us know what the purpose is? Without this type of thing it just seems like a mob or a riot.
It has.
There many ideas posted on this web site with our ideas. I am happy for your achievement in being in the 1%-3%. Are you happy for that? I hope you can look at our ideas with an objective mind. I suggest going to this blog: Naked Capitalism. I hope you are able to help those in need seeing that you are well off. You can sponsor a local Occupy_ near you.
I am a happy person, but I don't think it has anything to do with how much money or material possessions I have. The most precious and cherished aspect of my life is my wife and kids and we could be just as happy with less. That being said, we do not feel guilty or ashamed of what we have.
I will check out Naked Capitalism and report back. The title reminds me of one of my favorite blogs: The Consumerist, which I love to read. But I'm sure they are nothing alike.
awesome... read some of the demands on the forum, and get back to us.
Right off the bat, there are a host of demands that are simply destructive rather than constructive. I can think of numerous unintended consequences that are likely to harm the 99% more than they will help.
Why dont you just tell me what those are, as if I did not already know?
The banking, lending, and academic fields employ hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people. By forgiving all debt, eliminating credit history and ratings, and making college education free, I'm convinced that all of those thousands and millions will lose their jobs.
In the case of free college educations, are the employees of the nation's academic institutions onboard with your plan to come to work without a paycheck? How will they feed their families if the college isn't collecting tuition and thus making payroll?
Perhaps this is true. And in fact, that is not a part of the official list of grievances. There is no such thing as free health care or college educations but many universities are already supported by states. It occurs to me that it is silly for in state students to have to pay for something which is funded by the state. On the other hand, Harvard can feel free to continue to charge whatever it wants. Interestingly, Yale no longer allows money to be an object. All that matters is qualifications and quality.
These are the sort of things that many Europeans, including those that do not need a bailout take for granted. Why is it so hard for us to do?
Is there an official list of grievances?
Yes
This Occupy Party dot org is a case where someone is trying to help the movement anonymously.
Since OccupyWallStreet dot org is proclaiming to be, "not a political institution", the 8th USA Parliament may be just the institution that the Occupy Party dot org group may need to coordinate better with other people who do want to work together.
If the Occupy Party wants to coordinate with the All Party System (and independents), all they have to do is sign up, nominate and/or vote on the 8th USA Parliament's site.
We welcome all people (avatar/anonymous included - you know who you are) who want to organize by way of the Sainte-Lague parliament seat distribution system, the most advanced voting system for organizing multiple political institutions and independents that is known.
--James Ogle [Free Parliamentary] Volunteer vote counter http://www.usparliament.org
That is a joke, right?
I don't know who they are and don't plan to check.
The banks and corporations OWN the 2-party (really 1-party) system. 3rd party politics is a waste of time.
There is a solid plan to get ordinary citizens, (with no political party affiliation, and vetted to have no ties with corporations, banks, or traders) into ALL elected and appointed offices, and the oligarch's concubines OUT.
That plan is The Reset Button.
http://www.ResetButton2011.org
It's too polished.
It's impossible for anyone regardless of party/no party affiliation, gender, or ethnicity to get anything done when a group of spoiled, greedy, me-oriented, politically ignorant and unskilled congressmen and women have literally signed a pledge, like a bunch of ridiculous middle-schoolers trying to take down the principal, to NOT compromise or work with this president no matter who gets hurt. It's not about politics, it's about his foreign-sounding name and color of his skin. The Tea Party is rife with bigots and I am sure some of the responders to my earlier post could wear that label too.
Occupy Wall Street is NOT affiliated with Unions, MoveOn, or ANY Dems or Repubs… http://tl.gd/dg872d
I think some relevant information should be posted about this site (also agree that the header pic is awful in a tea party way):
From Whois.net
Sponsoring Registrar:Fabulous.com Pty Ltd. (R133-LROR) Registrant Organization:Whois Privacy Services Pty Ltd Registrant Street1:PO Box 923 Registrant City:Fortitude Valley Registrant State/Province:QLD
Wouldn't be surprised it it's News Corp trying to astro turf
push congress to end bush tax cuts , rebuild America bridges and roads , invest in middle class not banking class thats the occupy wall street message
We should hold the politicians accountable. They have been buying personal power by paying off Wall Street & Banks. Change comes in a Democracy by electing politicians that put their country first and not themselves first. Capitalism provided me with this computer, to communicate without the filter of the government or the elite’s control. It allows me to speak out against political corruption. We need to protest the Politicians that wrote the checks out of our accounts. Not just the people that received the checks. We need to let Washington know it is not ok to write checks out of our accounts. Join us on a march on Washington and the Whitehouse. Let’s show the crooked Politicians how a Democracy works. Politicians are the only electable leaders of this country. Lets remove the bad apples November 2012.
I whole-heartedly agree: the march needs to be at the point of governement corruption. Our representatives shohuld be beholding to citizens, corporations are beholding to their stock holders at best. But once we get there, what solution do we propose? We can't leave that up to the people who are part of the problem. I think the solution is clear: and end to lobbyists. With the government back in our control, we can work to fix the rest. If they are not under our control nothing will be or could be acheived.
Ok, I think this is relevant. I Just thought I'd check to see what the faux folks were up to today and I typed occupyparty.org in the address bar. Here's what I got. http://willrichardson.net/funhouse/fauxpages I promptly fired up my snipping tool and grabbed the screenshot you'll find on the link. A few minutes later, I typed the same thing in the address bar and got a "403 Error - Forbidden". WTF? Thinking maybe I'd typed .com by mistake, I tried that, and voila! Then I tried .net. and voila again! Only this time it said occupyparty.net in the upper left. Redirecting multiple domain names to point to the same site is a common practice. The only thing I can think of is, they're working on their site right now. I haven't checked yet, but I'll bet the domain registrar is the same one out of Australia. I'll go back and look at my web history later and see exactly what I did do. So anyway, that's what I found out today. This is getting interesting! I'm glad NPR is on the case. Sent what I found yesterday to CNN iReports but haven't checked to see if they've done anything with it. All I can say is a repeat of my earlier comment. Way to go NPR!
Yep! same registrar out of Queensland, Australia.
QLD = Queensland, Australia? The "Occupy Party" is from Australia? o_O
Look up this site on whois. It is even better. They have it blocked.
Those headlines do look straight out of a News Corp tabloid. "NYPD Drag Bleeding Protester Like He is a Dog." Gimme a break!
This new product might help everyone here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=201pgTaEseQ
The BS Removal Kit will change everyone's life who needs to get rid of the BS from our government. When we give entrepreneurs a chance to thrive the BS will stop.
This new product might help everyone here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=201pgTaEseQ
The BS Removal Kit will change everyone's life who needs to get rid of the BS from our government. When we give entrepreneurs a chance to thrive the BS will stop.
"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions."
Sounds like a great quote from one of the 99%...
Nope....it was Adolf Hitler.
There will always be abuse of good ideas, as Hitler manipulate with masses. Maybe you can ask yourself one question: Is maybe USA in same situation as Germany before Hitler took power?
Oooooh...check and mate!
Seriously, get some new material. Your boring, pablum, knee-jerk, bogey-man name calling is from another century.
"Workers of the world unite!" Hasn't that already been a failure within the course of human events so many times. Now this same sad mind set is shouting "Out of workers of the world unite!" and hoping for a different outcome. That is the definition of insanity. Look at this website, it says "Workers are told that they aren't allowed health care, shelter, food. Students are told that they aren't allowed job". Who is saying that? Who is saying you're NOT ALLOWED those things? Nobody that's who. It is still a free country. Why don't you pack up your tents, get a shower, grow up and do something productive and constructive with your life. Go earn something instead of demanding and expecting something to be given to you. Leave the mentality of a Takers and become a Maker. No one but yourself, Unioin bosses and the liberal/socialist leaders are stopping you. Stop throwing a temper tantrum, go read The Federalist Papers and the US Constitution and stop trying to divide the country due to some unfounded, un-American, childish reasons.
"Workers of the world unite!" Hasn't that already been a failure within the course of human events so many times. Now this same sad mind set is shouting "Out of workers of the world unite!" and hoping for a different outcome. That is the definition of insanity. Look at this website, it says "Workers are told that they aren't allowed health care, shelter, food. Students are told that they aren't allowed job". Who is saying that? Who is saying you're NOT ALLOWED those things? Nobody that's who. It is still a free country. Why don't you pack up your tents, get a shower, grow up and do something productive and constructive with your life. Go earn something instead of demanding and expecting something to be given to you. Leave the mentality of a Takers and become a Maker. No one but yourself, Unioin bosses and the liberal/socialist leaders are stopping you. Stop throwing a temper tantrum, go read The Federalist Papers and the US Constitution and stop trying to divide the country due to some unfounded, un-American, childish reasons.
"Workers of the world unite!" Hasn't that already been a failure within the course of human events so many times. Now this same sad mind set is shouting "Out of workers of the world unite!" and hoping for a different outcome. That is the definition of insanity. Look at this website, it says "Workers are told that they aren't allowed health care, shelter, food. Students are told that they aren't allowed job". Who is saying that? Who is saying you're NOT ALLOWED those things? Nobody that's who. It is still a free country. Why don't you pack up your tents, get a shower, grow up and do something productive and constructive with your life. Go earn something instead of demanding and expecting something to be given to you. Leave the mentality of a Takers and become a Maker. No one but yourself, Unioin bosses and the liberal/socialist leaders are stopping you. Stop throwing a temper tantrum, go read The Federalist Papers and the US Constitution and stop trying to divide the country due to some unfounded, un-American, childish reasons.
Is there a legal way for us to get rid of this site?
I didn't bother to check out the website, but look: disavowing politics is not a good idea. We may not be a political institution yet, but ultimately there needs to be a sense of politics and a political goal, as well as institutional support for the goal.
This doesn't necessarily (or shouldn't, in my opinion) be restricted to electoral politics. But high finance has been winning for so many years precisely because they have been able to depoliticize the discussion of the economy. We need to politicize.
The libertarian party (of which I used to be a part of) started politcal drives 10-15 yrs ago just looking for other libertarians to become involved in politics in any way - from senators on down to city council and school board member, literally anything to start working into the system and creating change.
We are doing politics, but we're not part of the institution they want us to take part in.
this is strong point: doing politic - but not being (part of) an institution! Let me add another point: The lesson from BarackObama.com, as for "why any authentic grassroots movement must be personally and equally owned by its member (being peer owners)", so that non of its members could ever takeover the whole movement against its own (grass)root(s) - see http://comcom.wikidot.com/comcom-for-activists-or-an-open-letter-to-mitch-stewart
We might as well be doing politics, not in their institutional dead-end framework, but in an Free, Libre, Open Source framework of our choosing.
OWS does the RealPolitik, no need for institutions. Furthermore, what could one ask of a dead, hollow institutional system even from within?
Congratulations Patrick et al for the rapid, oriented response.
Hasta la Victoria.
Oh god, that website is so silly...and quite disgusting. But expected this sort of b.s.
I strongly urge a re-write of your introduction. Get with a couple of writers to find ways that begin with an attention-getter, the urgent need, a way to satisfy that need; then offer a vision and encourage others to take action. This will make it more persuasive, coherent, and accessible.
Contact him directly, if you feel that strongly. Writing something in the comments doesn't seem like an efficient way to get your point across.
I was supporting this grass-roots movement until I kept seeing anti-Obama signs in the crowds. I voted for President Obama and will do so again. ALL of this BS, corporate greed, Wall Street shenanigans, and the loss of the American Dream, is the total fault of the Bush regime and its two pointless wars, greedy Republicans and stupid Tea Partiers. So, I withdraw my support from this movement and you'll get no more money from me.
To anybody out there blaming Obama, Bush or any other singular government official as the cause for America's prosperity getting flushed down the toilet. You're missing the big picture.
The situation is simple: The near entirety of the US government is corrupt and run by political Bribe-takers, bought and paid for by people who have amassed the most wealth overall in this country (Top 1% of the US Population).
These politicians, now solely representing their funders and not the voters, turn around and pass legislation that gives the Super Rich here every advantage possible, including free money (Quantitative Easing/Bailouts), lower taxes and zero accountability for their actions.
In order to prevent revolts from the increased burden to the unrepresented in this country, the Super Rich have set up a bogus political party to siphon off and redirect the anger of the masses (The Republicans) and an ineffectual party (The Democrats) to cave to “republican pressure,” while pretending to care about the masses. In addition, they have co-opted and bought out nearly all of the mainstream media, in order to filter out any info that would lay the blame on the true culprit, instead leaving the majority of America divided and focusing their energies on decoy scapegoats and partisan nonsense.
The super rich and those they pay for care not one bit about jobs or the welfare of the country they grew from. They merely care about having as many digits as possible for their bank statement balance. And if that means the middle/working class will eventually need to vanish, then so be it.
The entire system is broken.
No single person is to blame for the economic disaster because most federal lawmakers are just puppets but we can blame them for being spineless traitors. Federal Dems and Republicans are the same... they are both Uniparty Incorporated playing good cop/bad cop where the end result is always the same, the People lose. Do not think the Dems are just ineffective because they cave to the GOP or when they are portrayed as the 'lesser evil', they are the more effective evil... there is one party with one agenda and the 2-party system is used to divide the People and to fool People into thinking they have a choice. POTUS is a powerful position so yes, Obama is partly to blame... I only hold him responsible for what he himself has done and that is sufficient for impeachment. Obama got the US involved in the humanitarian bombing in Libya (fyi, it's a coup). He appointed over 40 CEOs and lobbyists to gov positions, including Monsanto men to head up the USDA and FDA food safety... Obama is the one telling People to swim in the Gulf of Mexico but it is toxic and he tells People to eat its seafood but IT IS POISON! So he is protecting BP and endangering People. What kind of leader does that to his own People?! A spineless traitor.
The system is corrupt because lawmakers work for the kleptocrats when they're supposed to work for the People. We have to get them out of power because they will not improve anything... they helped create the mess.
Voting is rigged by the corrupt so the oligarchs can retain power, so that must be addressed as a top priority of Occupy Wall St because there is a solution! We should demand paper ballots and a system that give the voter a verifiable receipt (they already exist). I'd like to demand they end wars, stop all the bombing, end the Fed, end corporate personhood, ban corporate lobbying, repeal the unPatriot Act and ban GMOs but I don't have any faith in 99% of current federal lawmakers so it is up to us. We could have the perfect candidate and they will rig the election so the oligarchs can stay in power... all this will be for naught unless we get paper ballots w/verifiable receipt.
VOTING IS RIGGED - MUST BE ADDRESSED!! Rigged USA Elections Exposed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEzY2tnwExs SOLUTIONS EXIST! http://saynotocorporateamerica.blogspot.com/
Peace!
I think you (or someone with a reddit account) should post this on reddit.
this is probably the best thing I've read on this forum so far. Someone gets it. Republicans ... Democrats... its all the same Kool-Aid, just a different color.
The last real president was JFK.
End the Fed.
My suggested agenda: 1. FDR's unrealized Economic Bill of Rights http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=effDfpKYcVo 2. Direct democracy to KEEP these reforms -and get others we need- by keeping the people in power. The best project for direct democracy is led by Mike Gravel: http://Vote.org
BOTH parties HATE Ron Paul because he wants to do away with their corrupt system...that's why he doesn't get the respect he deserves from the PRESS. But, it's our time and his time, GO RON PAUL!!!
Ron Paul has been saying get rid of the FED for years, it's time to let him do it!!!
++++++ Nice post.
I am not missing anything. Obama is as much at fault as Bush. Obushma is a liar and works for the One percent and no one else. You are missing the "big picture" buck ofama and the corporations he rode in on. HE co opted the MSM as much as anyone in history ever did.
Really?
That is correct but while we say the system is broken, lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater. If the money is removed from politics, the entire issue is fixed, generally. Or should I say, most of the money from politics because it is unrealistic to remove it all. But people will always go toward a party, whether it is two or 72. That makes no difference. We have a constitution and, if some freedom from the monied influences could be granted for awhile, I bet it still works better than anything before it or anything since. So when we are talking about this system being broken and revolution, you have to offer an alternative that will work realistically.....that is, if you are really wanting to re-write the constitution and put something new in its place. I would caution against that. It is not only uneccessary but possibly dangerous as well.
you are correct that this system is backed by the bribe givers and takers but there is really nothing to be done about it as all the news and media outlets are OWNED by the same people. To effectively change this situation, the US needs a revolution of epic proportions which is not possible because of the sheepish way of thinking of the ordinary people (the majority not all). Political party or not, the way the system is set up currently (with the roots in the colonial times) with 2 parties and 2 parties only the US is bound to fail. A revolution is needed to scrap what is centuries old and build up something that works. We should look around and see what has worked in the past and what works now and then come up with a model that would fix and improve the system. Of course you will not be able to make everyone happy but beginning with the system would be a good start. Look at what happened in Berlin, Germany with the Pirate Party... granted they don't have really a big agenda BUT it shows that that a bunch of folks are really PO's with the other options and now the Pirates have gained a little power locally in Berlin - THAT is what is needed here.
Right on the mark.
The top 1% of wage earners in the US includes anyone who makes more than 90k per year.
When you spout bad information, if makes you look even worse. Remember that next time you type something before knowing anything about the subject you're talking on.
Your numbers are completely flawed, but let's let them stand for a minute, as you believe them.
What does it say about the America you describe, when 99% of the wage earners are making less then $90k a year?
That means 99/100 people in our country are scraping to get by, in your mind.
Are you OK with your version of America? Where is the opportunity? Where is the middle class?
What does the future hold for your economy, when 99% of the wage earners can't afford to buy anything beyond basic needs for survival?
I look forward to your response...
for a single person to make 90k a year, is pretty darn good, this doesn't include a family of 4 where the husband and wife both make 60k a year for a combined 120k.
again, your argument is flawed beyond all recognition.
To live comfortably in this country, you only really need to make about 40k as a single, 65 to 70k as a married filing jointly.
Once again, this issue is bigger than RIGHT OR LEFT... Its not Obama, Bush or even Clinton. Our system has been compromised a long time ago. It is time to stop blaming specific people and start addressing the issues. What way can we get all the people fed, clothed, with shelter, WHILE stopping wars and cleaning up the environment. it can all be done, just not at the SLOW PROGRESS way of the current system. America has always been about SLOW PROGRESS and now much of the world is the same. lets change it.
Compromised by whom? George Herbert Walker, Prescott Bush? How about Samuel Bush? We need to name, names and demand justice. President Obama can not be the Fall Guy (after Albert Fall) for these neotrusts and their crimes. Right and Left? Really has the middle class seen any hope for help from the right. Progress will be made by both changing the system and by legally punishing the people that got us here, and seem to want to do it again! So, yes it is about people and their goals both the ones I support and cheer and the ones I see as roadblocks to this nations success.
agreed
No disrespect annelane but, you are wrong. Yes, Bush did a lot wrong too and Obama has continued and expanded upon every one of those wrongs. Obama is a war monger as much as Bush was and he cannot shove off that responsibility now. Some like you will still support him for whatever reason no matter what he does and they are part of this too. I disagree with your summation of who Obama really is. Rather than repeating his talking points which are not truth I invite you to actually read the legislation this man has passed word for word whenever you get a chance. None of these politicians are the friend of the working people and the poor. Not one.
"None of these politicians are the friend of the working people and the poor. Not one."
I'm am very weary about any statements of absolutes
we need representatives in the government'
turning away won't fix the problem
Yeah that's the thing. Anne, when you and I voted for Obama, he said he would do certain things. I was out there on the mall when he was sworn in. I was proud to be a part of something big. But he lied. Fox News loves to crow about that, as if the Conservatives and Republicans would do better in his place. They will not either. My eyes have been opened, and I have come to the same conclusion that many of us have: There are not two parties, there is just one. The Corporate Party. I will not stop fighting until that party is gone. Neither should you.
Brave and honest post. I did not vote for him. I voted third party but, the only reason I wasn't sucked in was that I knew some wonderful activists in his district in Chicago who informed me and showed me early, early on what he was really about. How they had all been used by him for political gain, how he had watered down his own bill to protect corporate interests at the risk of the health of many poor people, many, many things. This man was never who the media sold him as. Never. And yes Biz, there are not two parties. I worked for the democrats as a delegate and I left when I saw corruption to a level that was so disgusting I could not believe it. No one cared as long as they got what they wanted out of it. So I washed my hands, after talking with Dr. Dean for half an hour. He did not disagree with me, he was petulant, he sounded "sorry" but, did nothing. Do not trust ANY of our political parties. They are owned lock, stock and barrel and are lying to you.
Hear, hear Binuez! Thank you for talking about how you figured out that the left-right paradigm is a lie. I figured it out, too - now I can never look at corporate media (or our government, or our candidates) the same way again.
I truly believe the last president who was a champion of the American people was JFK, and look what happened to him. He wanted out of Vietnam, and he tried to print greenbacks and therefore usurp the Federal Reserve.
He did everything he said he'd do in his campaign. He was never a big man of the people when campaigning. People projected a lot of things onto him.
And the week after he was elected he announced Rahm Emmanuel as his cheif of staff and Larry Summers as the head of his economic council. I didn't bother to do to the mall to see his inauguration. Didn't much care at that point.
Didn't he say something repeatedly on the campaign trail about getting out of Iraq in 16 months of being elected? About not using signing statements? About not bypassing congress to enter into another military action?
Sophie I could swear that Gitmo is still open...
Oh, and that website is a travesty. As the Who said, "We won't get fooled again."
Even though I like Obama and did vote for him, he's not completely innocent. His biggest campaign donor was Goldman Sachs. He rehired some of the same Wall Street criminals that Bush hired. And, he did vote for the bank bailouts and also to invade Iraq, among other things.
Listen to your own language - 'fault', 'greedy', 'stupid'.
The right-left paradigm is a scam and a lie. It is perpetuated by the corporations to 1) control the 99%, 2) make us fight amongst ourselves, and 3) make us think we have a choice - yay! our blue (red) team won! Everything is fine, let me go back to sleep.
Wow listen to your bs, how old are you ten? Corporations control you..really? Easily solved don't buy anything from them, don't work for them. What controls everyone is the lack of personal responsibility. Whining cause they can't pay their credit card bills, or student loans. Don't buy what you can't afford. If you don't have cash, stay home, it is that simple. Then you wouldn't be a slave to them.
Firedog, that won't be so easy once the U.S. dollar is finally driven in to its grave by Bernanke. Or maybe it will, because then the corporations won't have a middle class to purchase trinkets.
Voting with dollars is the only true vote we have left; however that only works as long as we have a sound money system.
Forgive me, annelane, but Republican President Theodore Roosevelt would STRONGLY disagree with your position concerning criticism of Obama: "“To announce that there must be no criticism of the president or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but it is MORALLY TREASONABLE to the American public”. To keep silent while the ship of state is sinking would be un-American.
Have you heard of Deepak Chopra, the popular American guru who is regularly seen on Larry King? He used to be a strong supporter of Obama, but yesterday in an interview with "We Are Change", he expressed great disappointment in the President's actions, even going so far as to exclaim: “OBAMA IS SURROUNDED BY MAFIA!” (see the whole interview on YouTube).
I completely concur with those who,say the entire system is corrupt, but Obama is the current president and he did solemnly promise "Change we can believe in", remember? "Yes we can", right? Well, folks, HE obviously CAN'T or WON'T... or his MAFIA won't let him. Whatever it may be, he and his cronies MUST be challenged, loudly and clearly. Anything less would be timid, unpatriotic and servile".
Just so long as we remember that the whole system is deeply dysfunctional, morally bankrupt, and needs a major overhaul. "If not us, who? If not now, when?" YES, "WE THE PEOPLE" CAN!
obama is a smooth talker and im sure he wants good for the people. one thing to keep in mind is that he and the ones before him work for the invisible government so to speak. what we need is for the president to work for us.
Obama was a brilliant campaigner but has been thus far a truly pathetic president. Even prominent Democratic strategist James Carville labels him a "wimp" and quips on national television that he needs to grow "balls"!
"Obama is a smooth talker", writes georgia and I can agree with that, but not with the rest of her sentence:".... and I'm sure he wants good for the people". Barack Obama is a very strange man. Such a charmer, such a smooth talker! WHO is hiding behind that winning persona, that mask that charmed the whole world, including the Nobel Committee?
Sadly, the answer may well be: A NARCISSIST. It would explain a lot of glaring contradictions and the feeling of hurt and betrayal among so many Obama supporters. For more on this hypothesis, see Sam Vaknin's website and scroll down for a detailed discussion: http://samvak.tripod.com/obama.html
maybe u should visit whatthefuckhasobamadoneforus.com
Article. V.
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate. http://algoxy.com/ows/strategyofamerica.html this has something to do with us all
President Barack Obama has not had the ability to communicate to the American people. Examine the level of media power promoting the right, examine the near dark ages level of dis-information, look to the human next to you, do these all re-inforce this era of unfairness, inequality and stupidity. We live in a statistically monitored and dissected, media driven world. The wealthiest have created counter groups (Tea Party), whole moments in time have been erased (Iraq War Justification, 9/11), how can one man change or create momentum for change? Mr. Obama has stated we must lead from the bottom, well maybe this is the way it will manifest. So support them, hope is not a four letter word that should not be spoken. Oh, by the way, the Bush, Ellis, Walker, Pierce gang are the reason we are where we are.