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Forum Post: We need to fight the source, NOT the symptom!

Posted 2 years ago on Oct. 13, 2011, 3:23 p.m. EST by Crystal1776 (0)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I was thinking that if the banks fail, then the possibility of a world currency could come into play. Here we are fighting all the symptoms of a lawless government, when we really need to focused on the real cause, Congress and the White House. Isn't it where it all began? If it wasn't for them we would still have laws in place that would keep banks and corporations from destroying our country.

Rather than fighting the FED and the banks, we need to go after the government instead. I think that marching on wall street, won't change anything. How about Occupy Congress instead???

When I see how the very people and groups that we oppose are supporting the OWS, I can only believe that we are doing exactly what they want us to do. They want their NWO and a Global currency! And the only way they can make this happen is if the banks and our currency fail.

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[-] 2 points by WorkingClassAntiHero (352) from Manchester, NH 2 years ago

New World order now? Srsly...

You understand that corruption in government itself is a symptom and not a source, right? Corruption is an affect and an action, not a cause.

And its not "THE FED" thats corrupting it. So I'll stop you right there.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Correct, the nwo. The government is the direct source of the problems. The cause of its corruption is something I know cannot be described because the "dumbing down", so no point in bringing up the source of the corruption right now. Here's a transcript of an interview with the guy that budgeted it for the global foundations which conducted it. http://www.realityzone.com/hiddenagenda2.html

The federal reserve is a symptom of the corrupted government.

[-] 1 points by WorkingClassAntiHero (352) from Manchester, NH 2 years ago

Someone's an infowars fan I'm betting...

The source of corruption is private interests buying out governments and multinational corporations buying out nations. You speak of government as though it were some shadowy cabal or secret society, intent on enslaving us and destroying prosperity for their own gain. You really don't have a clue how things work, clearly.

Government is the instrument through which society, a teeming mass of psuedo collective human beings, orchestrates and manages itself. At present, private institutions, with their concentrations of wealth and influence, dominate our government.

Not some fucking conspiracy about one world orders one can only find in the annals of the internet with google ads on the scroll bar for surplus ballcaps and tinfoil.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Wrong, I've suspected a jones is an nwo front because he refuses to communicate with me for about 6 years now and I have the only web site on the planet with a detailed and feasible explanation for 2 Towers going to the ground in 10 seconds on 9-11. http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.htm An agent for the nwo would NEVER interview someone that actually knew the truth about treason and murder, they would never use such information. Your use of him in that way makes me feel more certain of that. You've compromised your role here and his perhaps.------ You've stated nothing about how "things work". I've been posting about using Article V convention to create the authority needed to make changes. What is your proposal for actually making change?----- You've provided lots of generalizations, all or nothing thinking, etc, basically "cognitive distortions". http://algoxy.com/poly/nwo_cognitive_distortions.html

and some erroneous speculation. You selectively seem to be ignorant that GHbush talked about the nwo. Hmmmmm, maybe you are associated and are here to "cognitively infiltrate", http://algoxy.com/poly/nwo_cognitive_infiltration.html and try and dissuade the public from understanding what is really involved. Let us hear about your proposals for making effective change?

[-] 1 points by WorkingClassAntiHero (352) from Manchester, NH 2 years ago

Actually friend, you're selectively hunting down "evidence" to support your predetermined conclusion. You've attached yourself to a romantic fantasy, in the hope and fear that it'll be true. That you'll be a rebel with a massive and impossible enemy to face with only the people backing you up. A rebel populist, fighting a simple and obviously recognizable evil machine.

Much like apocalypse nutjobs. I'm happy that you've been able to find something so entertaining, but the rest of us who have worked in and studied politics for the better part of a decade will stick to factual representations of corporate and institutional corruption of public institutions, the co-option of public need by profiteering private forces and the inherent flaws of our theoretically democratic republic.

Conspiracy theories and youtube politics is for children friend.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Okay, now you have blown it. You've shown that you have no proposals for creating the needed changes and are ONLY trying to diss one who has proposals that are founded in law and are historically sound. http://algoxy.com/poly/meaning_of_free_speech.html You are trying to see that my sharing has no meaning. THX for the demo, agent.

[-] 1 points by WorkingClassAntiHero (352) from Manchester, NH 2 years ago

Election and lobbying reform tinfoil hatter. This isn't the Matrix.

Bar private campaign contributions from political campaigns. Make ballot access a matter of popular support via ballot initiative, petition circulation and party drafting and promotion. Once they're on the ballot, run a nonpartisan, non media fed election cycle of televised debates hosted and moderated by nonpartisan institutions or academic institutions. Incorporate public questions and feedback into them at a greater level and aspire for a civil process rather than a dog-n-pony show.

For elected officials, maintain a standard record of all lobbying and official visits and make the records available for immediate public review. Establish timeframes of acceptable distance between private to public to private sector job shifts to ensure that industries aren't stacking their own regulatory decks and then watch as the corporatocracy, the unions, the parties are all forced to win on argument and idea rather than cash and influence.

Thats called policy hatter. Thats real political action.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Uh, maybe this ones a bot. THX for the demo. If not, still waiting to see how you would address any issue the movement effectively. Show us your function. Mine is right here, facts of history and law.----- http://algoxy.com/poly/emergency_powers_statutes.html We already know you are putting down efforts to use the constitution to defend itself.

[-] 1 points by WorkingClassAntiHero (352) from Manchester, NH 2 years ago

Lay off the acid friend. Its not doing you any good. Not everyone who tells you you are wrong is a bot, agent or robot. Pull your head out of your ass and troll back to infowars.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Hmmmm the nwo has great appreciation for your actions, which speak louder than your words. Redeem yourself and explain your strategy for manifesting solution to all the problems and soutions the movement is about. Your turn.

[-] 1 points by WorkingClassAntiHero (352) from Manchester, NH 2 years ago

Brainwave control. Biorythmic feedback loops fed through pop songs and news cast audio waves. Low tone theta waves to implant a simple message.

The Daleks will exterminate you all!

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Since you have absolutely no way, idea or proposal to find solution to problems and issues of the movement, why are you here?

[-] 1 points by WorkingClassAntiHero (352) from Manchester, NH 2 years ago

You don't even know what the issues are. You think Emperor Palpatine is going to unleash an army of freemasons to collect your kidneys. You're a conspiracy theorist. Your "evidence" is youtube videos and online propaganda featuring disassociated factoids that you sew together to argue for a romantic fantasy that someone else dreamed up in their spare time so you could waste your spare time thinking about it. You're a crazy person.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

I posted this which shows awareness of many key issues, but in your selectivity you've forgotten my accountability and you provide none of your own. http://algoxy.com/poly/emergency_powers_statutes.html

OMG! citing film figures now, and the nwo perceptions of the psyops of conspiracy they've woven. While you have no evidence for anything. No, I'm an American, an engineer and activist for the constitution that uses law. I'm accountable to prove that. http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11title_18.disclosure.html Utilization of Title, 18, chapter 115, §2382 of US codes, legally required disclosure of knowledge treason to a federal judge. Hah, I learned he was quick to conceal treason too.

[-] 2 points by LOVEPEACE (199) 2 years ago

only a world-wide Peace movement can unite all Good people of all nations. It is the ONE thing that is a direct threat to our enslavement. The entire rigged system is enforced under threat of violence. They use war and death to dominate and enforce participation in their failed system. If everyone would focus on Demanding PEACE NOW we would see REAL change. They would be forced to reveal themselves as they would naturally resist Peace.

Demand an end to all WARS now. Demand Peace. Peace is Prosperity. This system cannot be reformed. It is rigged. They are collapsing it on purpose as a pretext to WWIII. So long as people stay distracted with the economy they are throwing away the one chance we all have for REAL freedom and liberty.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

There is a highly valid aspect of the constitution that your post can be supported by. The Constitution carries the principles of the Declaration of Independence. War goes against life, that is why war is so difficult to conduct constitutionally, and it should be.-----

Functionally, demanding enforcement of the constitution is the greatest leverage citizens can have under law to effect any change at all. The states created the constitution and the states can reform it, amend it through an Article V convention. Here are some consolidated links explaining aspects that are perhaps difficult of Article V.--- http://algoxy.com/poly/article_v_convention.html

[-] 1 points by LOVEPEACE (199) 2 years ago

These docs were formed after achieving freedom. It was in those first moments a natural, free and organic government became obvious. Those docs are testament to what was achieved. The document the revelation and understanding that came with being free and experiencing true liberty.

Now it is time again to experience that freedom and liberty and document it again.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

It is time again to achieve yet a greater level, if possible. These threads show a consistent observation by different people showing that OWS has targeted the wrong faction of the elite. Wall street is guilty, but government TOTALLY enabled them. Article V of the US constitution is the way to deal with the federal government.-----

http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-need-to-fight-the-source-not-the-symptom/#comment-131640

Keep those threads up. This counters the dilution from the cognitive infiltrations sent to derail American unity from freedom of expression and assembly.

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 2 years ago

The old threads are better than the new.

Article 5 convention NOW!

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

The old threads are much better.

Article 5 convention NOW!

[-] 1 points by beastieboy (3) 2 years ago

Its not a this or that thing, those who fly against brown and his deep research process are fools or agents. One process and investigation should lead to the other, bringing them all and their INTERCONNECTION into view! Feds, Corporations and govt..... which by the way have an ARMY of internet users to screw up and mislead and spread false impressions online.... Get it together people! White Feather is a friend, and he has serious process for the get down with the get down, which must include 911 Truth! Because we all know it was NOT an attack!

[-] 1 points by George1234 (82) 2 years ago

One Point Program for OWS should be Tax reform. 1. All Taxes should be abolished 2. We ask for a single simple tax collection process. Tax all bank transactions by 2%. 3. Revenue required for Government program can be easily collected by taxing all bank transactions by 2%. There is no need for multiple taxes, e.g income tax, sales tax etc, etc. 4. This process will eliminate all record keeping for individuals, businesses and organizations. No preparation and filing of tax forms. No audits 5. This will make life easy, and more enjoyable.

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 2 years ago

EXACTLY. WE NEED TO TAKE OUR GOVERNMENT BACK ! Once we have it back, we can use the UNCORRUPTED Democratic processes to work out all the details. If we INSIST on aguing over our differences right NOW, we become FACTIONS with NO POWER ... JUST the way the STATUS QUO wants us.

I am a Republican 1%'er and I, as well as ALL my conservative friends, SUPPORT this one SIMPLE objective. WE WANT OUR GOVERNMENT BACK !

See a LOT of discussion at http://occupywallst.org/forum/one-percenter-ready-to-join-if/ and a proposal at http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-the-people-in-order-to-a-proposal/

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Rico wrote: WE NEED TO TAKE OUR GOVERNMENT BACK ! END----

Yes, it is a need. As long as the imposters in office continue to pretend they are under the constitution, we can unify and use Article V to return constitutional government.

[-] 1 points by Quark (236) 2 years ago

Absolute power corrupts absolutely! TERM LIMITATIONS can put an end to this. If it is good enough for the president then it should be good enough for Congress. Lets do this!

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Through an article 5 convention, we can do this. The movement needs refocus in function NOW. Article 5 convention NOW!

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Good idea, but the authority to do such WILL be needed. Consider congress has been violating the constitution for 100 years. An article 5 convention should have been called in 1911.

Congress is very afraid of an Article 5 of the US constitution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_to_propose_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution "Congress acted preemptively to propose the amendments instead. At least four amendments (the Seventeenth, Twenty-First, Twenty-Second, and Twenty-Fifth Amendments) have been identified as being proposed by Congress at least partly in response to the threat of an Article V convention."

Our first right in our contract is Article V, the right to have congress convene delgates when 2/3 of the states have applied for an amendatory convention.

Article. V.

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.-------

Learn about article 5.

Analysis of applications. http://www.foa5c.org/mod/resource/view.php?id=2

A lawsuit against all members of congress for not calling an Article 5. http://algoxy.com/poly/article_v_convention.html

Article V conference, Mark Meckler Lawrence Lessig at harvard 9/25/11-video comments http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-7ikbvu0Y8

Lessig power point on article V http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gpbfY-atMk

A effort each evening to create a web conference to discuss Article 5 is beginning.--

http://www.articlevmeeting.info/

Comprehensive strategy.---

http://algoxy.com/ows/strategyofamerica.html

[-] 1 points by Quark (236) 2 years ago

Wow, fantastic. Thank you. This is what we need.

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Quark, you are perceptive and caught this old thread I found and support by posting. Good move!-

The reason why is because the posters perceptions are the first level of awareness of what is wrong with OWS, targeting. If we can gain consensus here on that, then the GA and the focus groups cannot continue to evade the issue. Here is a list of posts with very similar and accurate perceptions to do that with.-----

http://occupywallst.org/forum/corporate-influence-in-government-and-its-effect-o/ http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-system-can-it-be-fixed-or-must-it-be-replaced/ http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-need-to-fight-the-source-not-the-symptom/ http://occupywallst.org/forum/fix-congress-not-wall-street/ http://occupywallst.org/forum/please-consider-this-everyone-focused-on-1-thing/ http://occupywallst.org/forum/poll-more-people-blame-washington-than-wall-st/ http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-wall-st/

Consider putting an art5 after your new username:) -

[-] 1 points by capitalistdemocracy (1) from Friendswood, TX 2 years ago

The politicians need money to get elected, so they ask for money from corporations. This money they get from us so they can make laws that support them. When we were gullible enough to elect George W. Bush a man we made countless mistakes, led us into a war in iraq for dubious reasons and still kept many of his policies even as obama get elected. This occupy wall street protest should be about getting americans to support financial policies that are in their best interest so that politicians have to wriggle out or at least accept blame from the people.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

capitalistdemocracy wrote:The politicians need money to get elected, so they ask for money from corporations.END------

Correct. In such a system the citizens must be able to share info on both instantly and widely as possible to be allowing speech to have the meanings life needs to survive.--- http://algoxy.com/poly/meaning_of_free_speech.html

We need an Article V convention NOW!

[-] 1 points by ddiggs690 (277) 2 years ago

The source is a few people collecting rents from land.

The theory of economic rent has been around for some time, but land taxation has seldom been implemented throughout history. It is well known that the factors of production are composed of land, labor and capital. Land, in the economic sense, can be explained as anything with a productive capacity that has not been created by men or women, but has value created by the community. Labor is any human energy spent , whether by the mind or through brute force, that contributes to a means of production. Capital is mainly what is spent from savings for future production. Under the current system, mainly labor and capital are taxed, while the landed elite make out like bandits with the rents that are created by the community! It is no surprise that civilizations have suffered from vast inequalities since the founding of the first governments.

What we need to fight for is a redistribution of these economic rents for the sake of the people, while at the same time reducing the tax rates on labor and capital. These rents from land are the source of all wealth and are presently held by a small number of wealthy people who will speculate and slow there productive capacity in order to increase profits.

This demand goes out to the people of OWS! If there is one thing we need to change in order to promote equality, environmental protection and job creation through increased productive capacity, this is the solution we need. Please read about economic rent and land taxation in order to fully grasp the concept.

This is something proven in theory and not based on anyone's personal opinion or ideology. While we are divided on many things, it's time to come together with some real demands to benefit the majority of unrepresented individuals of the world. Lets show the top 1% that we know where their unearned wealth is coming from and that we know exactly what is needed in order to bring them back to the real world!

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Hmmmm, very interesting perspective and hard to dispute offhand. Very correct and common sense about land and tax historically.-----

This is the kinds of thing that would benefit from a revision of the First Amendment assuring that speech vital to survival is shared and understood, rather than simply "free".-----

I can envision a 6 hour series on national television, what PBS would be doing if they were not infiltrated and concealing treason. PBS is named with a federal filing under U.S.C. TIT.18 ch.115§2382, as "IN RE: " violaters of US code.---- http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11title_18.disclosure.html We need all current media off to the side. Commandeering commercial media to intervene in treason and defend the constitution is what I'm talking here. See "30 year conspiracy".

Any engineer can tell you, if they are not rendered terrified, that the info on treason definetely implicates PBS.--- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDfm3NroVG8

I see an issue that can only be resolved through the public having access to nationally broadcast television supporting speech that carries prime constitutional intent. Corporate medias exploitation of instinct or mis-education, to increase consumption and ability to oppose destruction, war, environment, stability, constitution, etc. NOW, fully justify revision of the First Amendment.----

Your position including "economic rent and land taxation" in order to increase the public general awareness of the dominant aspects between the vital aspect of land, and apparently vital aspect of economy, fit well into that education . It would be the logical leading edge feature of social sustainability as communities transition into their new economic roles. --------

Through an Article V convention, using the deepest natural law we can know as humans,-- http://algoxy.com/poly/meaning_of_free_speech.html ------- we first must make it possible to share, educate each other in facts, law and history, then take on more indepth views which might possibly create a deeper understanding enabling any sacrifices to want and desire we may have to make, instead, acting in favor of the needs of living things.

This page has good references to Article V.--------- http://algoxy.com/poly/article_v_convention.html

The link named "educate" has a very full perspective on the last 140+ years controlling the legal aspects of the present.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

Yes

if people could just walk in for health check ups,

we'd save a lot of money not having to deal with open sores later


[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Crystal1776, your thread topic is soooooooooo good you were honored with a real nwo agent attempting cognitive distortion, WorkingClassAntiHero ain't real. I'm trying to show a model of normal human accountability that I've developed to show intentions. Please, all reading, source you understanding of human nature. Examine what WorkingClassAntiHero is posting, look at the result. A normal human being sincere about their support for change would continue and if they were reasonable, they would start to alter their appraisal of this issue of source or symptom and economy verses government focus. This is really critical.

[-] 1 points by genanmer (822) 2 years ago

It's unfortunate but an extremely few people outside the circles running the world will get the full picture and understand the 'source' of all our problems today.

You can follow the trail of corruption to all sorts of tangent conspiracy ideas. You can find evidence for ancient advanced technologies in megalithic structures of past civilizations, GMO's in our current food supply, chemtrails, assassination plots, false flag attacks that start wars, fluoride in water, suppressed energy/health technologies, UFO sightings, election frauds, MK ultra (mind control), CIA drug dealings, and on, and on, and on. But most of it will just send us off on tangents filled with plenty of misinformation/disinformation.

We simply need people collaborating on a global scale at a grass roots level while phasing out corporatism here. Occupy Together globally and the threat of a NWO falls away.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Consider there is a collboration defined by law, that can do this that is all ready to be used, and it is our duty to use. It is called Article V of the Constitution. It is our first constitutional right, a beautiful exercise of democracy reshaping the principles of a republic. Just as envisioned by our most gifted framers of the social contract. They knew the potentials for secret collusion in groups of people. Congress is a group.

Congress is very afraid of an Article V.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_to_propose_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution "Congress acted preemptively to propose the amendments instead. At least four amendments (the Seventeenth, Twenty-First, Twenty-Second, and Twenty-Fifth Amendments) have been identified as being proposed by Congress at least partly in response to the threat of an Article V convention."

Our first right in our contract is Article V, the right to have congress convene delgates when 2/3 of the states have applied for an amendatory convention.

Article. V.

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.

Lots of facts here about Article V. http://algoxy.com/poly/article_v_convention.html

[-] 1 points by oceanweed (521) 2 years ago

ows from start has been democratic and all republicans do nothing but demonize the movement read the signs listen to the people and see tax rich get money out of politics end wars have never been backed by republicans tax cuts for middle class modernize roads and bridges invest in middle class not banking class by raising minimum wage thats the occupy wall street message

[-] 1 points by cmt (1195) from Tolland, CT 2 years ago
[-] 1 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 2 years ago

What we most immediately need is a comprehensive strategy that implements all our demands at the same time, and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management System of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategic Legal Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:

http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures

Join

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/

if you want to be 1 of 100,000 “support clicks” needed to support a Presidential Candidate – such as anyone you'd like to draft – at AmericansElect.org in support of the above bank-focused platform.

Remember that any candidate, regardless of party, is a straw man, a puppet; it's the STRATEGY that the people organize themselves behind, in military internet formation, that's important. Read and think critically about the 1st link and join the 2nd link and you'll see exactly what I mean.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

atki4564 wrote: What we most immediately need is a comprehensive strategy that implements all our demands at the same time,END------

And that would be utilization of our first constitutional right, Article V.

Congress is very afraid of an Article V.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_to_propose_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution "Congress acted preemptively to propose the amendments instead. At least four amendments (the Seventeenth, Twenty-First, Twenty-Second, and Twenty-Fifth Amendments) have been identified as being proposed by Congress at least partly in response to the threat of an Article V convention."

Our first right in our contract is Article V, the right to have congress convene delgates when 2/3 of the states have applied for an amendatory convention.

Article. V.

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.

Lots of facts here about Article V. http://algoxy.com/poly/article_v_convention.html

[-] 1 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 2 years ago

I can't stand the 75% ratification-approval part myself; 50% approval is hard enough to get as is, but 75%! Of course, I think it's possible to get 75% with the right "new" Draft Constitution or I would not have spent the last 27 years trying to write a new one that I think everyone -- internationally, even -- could agree to. Thanks for the links. I booked them and will review further if we ever get even close to 75%, right?

Oh, by the way, I posted a further clarified plan in response to questions from our group at: http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategically_weighted_policies_organizational_operating_structures_tactical_investment_procedures

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Good points. There is a logical path to 75% state legislature ratification. It ABSOLUTLY requires truth, lots of it, and time with capacity, by the public, to digest and refine opinion upon. When the citizens figure out what is really going on, the apathy will dissolve.-----

Are you with me? Can you imagine NOT having those abilities and completing those actions and accidentally making decent decisions in democracy? I cannot.

Therefore, we invite failure IF, corporate media collusive with an infiltration of the federal government, is not bypassed adequately to EMPOWER CITZENS with good information and opportnuity to refine opinions THEN purify the voting, electorial systems.

[-] 1 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 2 years ago

The truth is we don't have the ask the permission of the "old" Government to create a "new" Government because today's banks are the true government. All economic activity revolves around today's banks, so if we create "new" Banks as Bank Owner-Voters then we create a "new" Government (as Banks) which control the "old" Government with only 25% approval. Today's mega-banks, 50% of the market, get whatever they want on the hill, such as the extremely watered-down regs they got passed which mean the whole damned fiasco is going to happen yet again. Like the other 90%, I have zero faith in Congress so we need to create own National Online Congress as Bank Owner-Voters.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Correct, and congress of the old government, IF 3/4 of the states are ratifying amendment, has no say whatsoever. Specifically showing where you are in fact correct under the constition.-------

We should stop short of interpreting that this is a blanket change. One or 2 stiches at a time is more like it. Each time with Article V. To become proficient immediately, by becoming informed, is very desireable before getting into Article V, but, logic will probably prevail eventually, so it is better to be in an Article V no matter what.

But, most immediatly is support for a local development where posters actually, logically and coherently point at the same targeting problem by OWS from the beginning.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/corporate-influence-in-government-and-its-effect-o/ http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-system-can-it-be-fixed-or-must-it-be-replaced/ http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-need-to-fight-the-source-not-the-symptom/ http://occupywallst.org/forum/fix-congress-not-wall-street/ http://occupywallst.org/forum/please-consider-this-everyone-focused-on-1-thing/ http://occupywallst.org/forum/poll-more-people-blame-washington-than-wall-st/

[-] 1 points by MadMavenNYC (26) 2 years ago

"No person, corporation or business entity of any type, domestic or foreign, shall be allowed to contribute money, directly or indirectly, to any candidate for Federal office or to contribute money on behalf of or opposed to any type of campaign for Federal office. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, campaign contributions to candidates for Federal office shall not constitute speech of any kind as guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution or any amendment to the U. S. Constitution. Congress shall set forth a federal holiday for the purposes of voting for candidates for Federal office."

[-] 1 points by SanityScribe (452) 2 years ago

It's the politicians for sure. It has been a very long process. Check this page for some warnings of it all from past Presidents.

Kennedy and Eisenhower tried to tell us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhZk8ronces

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rd8wwMFmCeE&feature=fvwrel

[-] 1 points by sewen (154) 2 years ago

The government has been co-oped... you are in the right place. Just look on how Washington is in grid-lock.

[-] 1 points by MadMavenNYC (26) 2 years ago

All the politicians in DC are so happy we are not coming after them right now. You are absolutely right that they are happy that we are distracted from focusing on them...

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

I would suspect you are 100% correct. The public really has a problem with remembering just how much lawless action has been taken in the last 50 years, IF the constitution is the "law of the land".

[-] 1 points by Mitch333 (93) 2 years ago

The Bancor or whatever it will be called will come in to play and the dollar will no longer be the world standard. That is going to happen anyway. Corporate welfare is not going to prevent it. Ending the Fed is not going to stop it, either.

For me the root cause is Wall St corporations are controlling and running our government. We the People are not.

[-] 1 points by shadaxgale (230) from Oswego, NY 2 years ago
[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Crystal1776 wrote: When I see how the very people and groups that we oppose are supporting the OWS, I can only believe that we are doing exactly what they want us to do. They want their NWO and a Global currency! And the only way they can make this happen is if the banks and our currency fail.END------

EXCELLENT thinking/posting. I am 100% certain you've hit 2 nails centrally, driving them home. I will supplement with the direction to Article V of the US constitution, which is exactly the tool/method you are describing. There is a logical process and strategy but OWS has no voice, only vocal chaos, so some form of solidarity to this valid double whammy needs to be created.

[-] 1 points by RichardGates (1529) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

does it say occupy washington at the top of the page? they have obviously decided what they think is the problem, i think they're right.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Crystal1776 is right on with "They want their NWO and a Global currency! And the only way they can make this happen is if the banks and our currency fail."----- and the notion that we should be going after government not wall street, IF we need wall street to behave. Article V of the constitution is our first constitutional right and we need to use it now. Government is the entitiy that has the authority to control the greed, neglect, nonfeasance, malfeasance and treasonous tendencies of the money market.

[-] 1 points by RichardGates (1529) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

yes but protesting washington would only have that exact impact, protesting wallstreet means they hear it all the way from new your and from the businesses that have to actually deal with it on their way to work every day. believe me, they are in doors, they see you as well from NY as they would from right out side the capital, more so even.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

So you completely missed that government infiltration is using wall street as a tool in the destruction of US economy and you think people at work watching the protests is meaningful to our cause.-------

Crystal117 wrote:Rather than fighting the FED and the banks, we need to go after the government instead."END------"They want their NWO and a Global currency! And the only way they can make this happen is if the banks and our currency fail."END-------

[-] 1 points by RichardGates (1529) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

what should be handled? symptom or source?

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Source first, unless symptom is suffocating us, and we are not that bad off yet. If we get focused, it won't get that far before we can take a unified action.

[-] 1 points by Meeky (186) from Los Angeles, CA 2 years ago

We could do both you know.

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Yes, unconstitutional government for 140 years is NOT good.

http://algoxy.com/poly/emergency_powers_statutes.html

In that case, strategy.

http://algoxy.com/ows/strategyofamerica.html

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Crystal1776 wrote:
I was thinking that if the banks fail, then the possibility of a world currencyEND----

Your analysis is so correct and focusing on creating change in government, getting past an unconstitutional congress is primary.-----

We need an article 5 convention NOW!

Article V conference, Mark Meckler Lawrence Lessig at harvard 9/25/11-video comments http://vimeo.com/31464745

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Crystal, I wish your logic were held by the OWS GA. Then the protests would be against treasonous acts done in usurpation of the constitution and would be so lawful, that police would be afraid, yes legally intimidated by the protestors actions.

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Common sense strategy and there is a law that is totally designed to go after corrupt, unconstitutional federal government. Article 5 of the constitution.-----

A effort each evening to create a web conference to discuss Article 5 is beginning.--

http://www.articlevmeeting.info/

Comprehensive strategy.---

http://algoxy.com/ows/strategyofamerica.html